Bangkok Reports

[QUOTE=Betong]Very true. But "farang = non-human"? I mean, where do people get these ideas? Farang khii nok, maybe, in this case.

P.S. I'm another ISG'er you've met, Mick. But anonymously and not at LL. Hint: It was at SoL and I was talking to Lek . . . .[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure who Lek is, but I guess my report must have co-incided with some imfamous behaviour you saw. The only names I can remember right now are Ae, Nong and Tuk.

Searching for own posts I see I did indeed play with Lek without having FS (She was on the rag I think) and you must have witnessed a multi-girl sex-capade.

[QUOTE=Traveler1234]OTH

What you describe doesn't sound a lot different from a lot of corporate America (or many other mnc worldwide)...IMHO.

I don't think the Thais have a monopoly on this. And as far as the royals are concerned, this is certainly true about most royals worldwide, no?[/QUOTE]

I agree, very tiring hearing the bashing of thais... Not only MNC's are like this... it is the same for most third world countries. I live in a banana republic and I see first hand the long line of foreigners who come in all smiles and happy only wanting to abuse us dumb islanders. And I see first hand how many of us dumb island folks screw over the foreigners and I sit back and have to laugh as everyone deserved what they got. Now when an innocent gets screwed over we step up and take care of things, but almost all want to screw us over and they are not innocents and many folks in my home will do their best to screw them over. The tourists, the simple tourists who are here for visit are never touched or screwed over, it is when people are wanting things or abuse things is when they get into trouble in my homeland. I can see the same in Thai, foreigners coming in with money and why should they not try to get some of it. While you are screwing them they will screw you.

Now what I said is a major generalization. Not every person does it in every country, but it is very common place so it amazes me people are surprised when they get screwed over. However there is such a thing of lies by omission which is very common place. There is also the situation of when things go wrong no one knows anything when in reality everyone knows everything but no one says anything. When things go wrong here at my home, everyone knows what happens and we deal with it local style... if it happens to a foreigner who is an idiot then we don't know squat. When it happens to a foreigner who is a good person items get straightened out right away.

These are common, and happen in most countries in the pacific and asia from what I see and where I work and travel (and as many ISG's know I handle a large chunk of asia and the Pacific). I've been messed over by my TGF and she has many omissions of truth. Telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth is hard for many to do. Many will lie or not tell the entire story in fear of saying it will get them hurt or harmed.

When it comes to working girls, many have no father at home, and most have had a BF or husband screw them, leave them with a child and go off to another girl. So why should they trust any guy? Mongers all lie so it takes a long time of lies and partial truths for anything to come real. And when you find a real one, how can you be sure and how can you be sure it will last? Building up that trust stage for a TGF and a Farang takes a long time and takes a lot of hurt and lies to get to a point where there is trust and honesty.

And when it comes to non working girls... many see the movies and think American's eat steak for every meal and sit in air con and do nothing while the people in less developed countries do all the labor. (this comes from people in my own country) So they figure why not try to screw them, Bush and the US Govt. sit in their glass house and throw stones so why not try to mess them over. They feel and see first hand the foreign relations of the USA and how much crap it is. And anyone who is white skinned... is an American.. it makes no difference to them where you really are from.

I'm just looking at it from the POV of someone form a less then less developed country who see's fake NGO's and fake foreigners on a daily basis. And unfortunately, I have to work with the government officials in many countries :( And I am one of the foreigners who come into Thai and try to make deals and get things done and I have to fight this attitude at home and abroad.

It just gets a little tiring to hear so many people bash the thai's. If it is so friggin bad then move or don't go there. Find another place then complain about that country. The point of pride for many of the ISG's is how they got a girl for 1,000 baht or screwed her out of tip or etc... It's a wonder to me why TWG's don't do more drastic items to foreigners. Majority of the working girls in thai and thai people are safe and honest (won't steal your mobile etc..), you want danger, monger in other countries and they will roll you for everything you got. So they tell a few stories... give me a break...

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence....

[QUOTE=Tansak KTV]I agree, very tiring hearing the bashing of thais...
...
The tourists, the simple tourists who are here for visit are never touched or screwed over, it is when people are wanting things or abuse things is when they get into trouble in my homeland. I can see the same in Thai, foreigners coming in with money and why should they not try to get some of it. While you are screwing them they will screw you.
...
[/QUOTE]Tansak KTV,

I disagree.

I don't screw anybody, and I don't want that anybody screws me (hmm...I just think about the deeper meaning of "to screw somebody"). I don't want special things, and I don't abuse things, and I don't want that Thais want special things from me, or Thais abuse me!

And if you think the Thais distinguish between farang living here and farang tourist - in regards of ripping somebody off - wrong, no difference, we all are the walking ATM machines.

And - to top it - the professionalism behind all this is unique in Asia. Other countries are showing similar phenomenons, but in my POV it is not as bad as it is here.


Giotto

[QUOTE=Tansak KTV]...
It's a wonder to me why TWG's don't do more drastic items to foreigners.
...
[/QUOTE]Tansak KTV,

Now - you please give me a break.

More drastic - killing somebody to get rid of him, to take over the house, furniture, interior etc. etc. seams to be quite "drastic" to me.


Giotto

[QUOTE=Giotto]And if you think the Thais distinguish between farang living here and farang tourist - in regards of ripping somebody off - wrong, no difference, we all are the walking ATM machines.

And - to top it - the professionalism behind all this is unique in Asia. Other countries are showing similar phenomenons, but in my POV it is not as bad as it is here.[/QUOTE]

We all have our own perspective. When it comes to the part about distinguishing the difference between tourists and visitors and living... I am speaking of my own culture, not thai. I agree that thai would not distinguish as it is too large where as my slice of hell is small. We do however distinguish the difference.

I disagree on the other parts of asia / Oceania, some (many) are living hell compared to thai. Some more relatively recent or newer or modern cities are not as bad I will concede (but they are more sterile and lack the vibrant color other places have). But do not imagine the grass is greener on the other side my friend... we all have our own slice of hell and it can be everywhere. If you want utopia... good luck.

[QUOTE=Giotto]Tansak KTV,

Now - you please give me a break.

More drastic - killing somebody to get rid of him, to take over the house, furniture, interior etc. etc. seams to be quite "drastic" to me.


Giotto[/QUOTE]

He lived it and there will always be exceptions, that is not every day. I'm talking the general usual transaction. 98% of the time you pick up a girl, you take her to your room, you bang her, you pay her, she leaves. Maybe 2% of the time you have an issue in Thailand. In other countries the percentage goes way down and it is much riskier. Thai is still safe compared to other countries and I am still surprised there are not more reports of mongers being rolled.

[QUOTE=Tansak KTV]...
if you want utopia... good luck.[/QUOTE]Kansak KTV,

I don't want Utopia - a quiet live amongst honest people would be OK!

You think Thailand is Utopia, when you say that the "Majority of the working girls in thai and thai people are safe and honest (won't steal your mobile etc..)" ... and this is wrong! They might not steal your mobile, but that doesn't make them honest!

But - no need to fight - you will learn it the hard way! Believe me!


Giotto

[QUOTE=Giotto]But - no need to fight - you will learn it the hard way! Believe me![/QUOTE]

Not fighting, just different view points. And not to worry, have seen and learned my share. The latest TGF is going out the door. So no worries.

[QUOTE=Tansak KTV]He lived it and there will always be exceptions, that is not every day. I'm talking the general usual transaction. 98% of the time you pick up a girl, you take her to your room, you bang her, you pay her, she leaves. Maybe 2% of the time you have an issue in Thailand. In other countries the percentage goes way down and it is much riskier. Thai is still safe compared to other countries and I am still surprised there are not more reports of mongers being rolled.[/QUOTE]The "general usual transaction" - what is that? Sex for a monger?

Let's talk about business transactions. 90 % of the quotations I get ( as a farang hotel owner ) are completely overpriced - at least twice as much as a usual quotation to a Thai would be. Many times more than that. All that despite the fact that we ask the companies not to add any "farang surcharge".

Is that a "general usual transaction" ?


Giotto

[QUOTE=Giotto]

And if you think the Thais distinguish between farang living here and farang tourist - in regards of ripping somebody off - wrong, no difference, we all are the walking ATM machines.

[/QUOTE]
Yep.

All farangs are in the same boat. Some have better seats on the boat, but still in the same boat

[QUOTE=Giotto]The "general usual transaction" - what is that? Sex for a monger?

Let's talk about business transactions. 90 % of the quotations I get ( as a farang hotel owner ) are completely overpriced - at least twice as much as a usual quotation to a Thai would be. Many times more than that. All that despite the fact that we ask the companies not to add any "farang surcharge".

Is that a "general usual transaction" ?


Giotto[/QUOTE]

Majority of the time it is still safe for mongers picking up girls in Thai. Unless you claim it is no longer safe for people to take girls in thailand. That is the general usual transaction... In other parts there is a larger chance of getting rolled then in Thai.

Business dealings... that is a separate issue. I'm sure you don't get the quotes yourself, you get someone else to get the quotes and send local thai's out shopping. It is same as everywhere in the world. You think it is so much different in PI or other countries? You think Thai has the lock on overcharging foreign business owners? You think Thai is the only place that tries to screw over foreigners? It is not as bad as other places I have to be in.

Try Manila, try Oceania, even China can get down right nasty. Thai is not innocent but it is not unique in this regard.

Can anyone answer this question as fact or fiction:

On my last visit (2006) to LOS the girls in Bangkok Pay for play seem to come to work if they wanted to thus no additional bar fine if they wanted to stay with us longer?? vs. The girls in Patttaya had to come to work like a regular job and if they stayed with their customer they still had to pay the bar fine.
Can anyone shine some light on this?

[QUOTE=AliasDonkey]Can anyone answer this question as fact or fiction:

On my last visit (2006) to LOS the girls in Bangkok Pay for play seem to come to work if they wanted to thus no additional bar fine if they wanted to stay with us longer?? vs. The girls in Patttaya had to come to work like a regular job and if they stayed with their customer they still had to pay the bar fine.
Can anyone shine some light on this?[/QUOTE]

Not all Bangkok girls can come and go as they like, it depends if they are on a wage or not.
I met a girl on my last trip from one of the Rainbow bars who pleases herself when she comes in and when she goes but she does not get paid apart from ladydrinks and barfines.
The bars tolerate this because a pretty girl can easily ponce a dozen ladydrinks before she gets barfined.

[QUOTE=Tansak KTV]You think Thai is the only place that tries to screw over foreigners? It is not as bad as other places I have to be in.
Try Manila, try Oceania, even China can get down right nasty. Thai is not innocent but it is not unique in this regard.[/QUOTE]

Of course you're right about other parts of the region. Hell, I experienced the same kind of attitude even when I lived in the Caribbean, which is why I've had it with the 3rd World, in general and am making a real effort to get out.

But, firstly Thailand is a much richer and more developed country than just about any other in the region, with the exception of China. It's certainly much further ahead than PI. The Thais don't think of themselves as 3rd World, especially the type of Thais with whom Giotto and I deal. And as I said previously, they're just as likely to screw each other, as well.

Perhaps the grass isn't any greener elsewhere. But, at least other more developed areas of the world have laws which are actually enforced, and act as a deterrent to being openly abused and exploited. As a result of the heirachy of Thai society, Thais aren't used to expecting or giving fair treatment. So for Farang, coming out of societies that are more equitable and regulated, the situation here becomes unbearable after awhile. I currently have a labour lawyer in a constant state of red alert because of the ongoing blatant and fraudulent behaviour of my employer - a situation, all too common here, that would be far less likely in the West. Fortunately, if I have to pursue legal action, I'll win, even here. I've won actions twice before. But, it just becomes so tiresome to have to do this time and again.

[QUOTE=Wendella]I realize English is your second language, so hesitate to tease -- but just such a perfect little mistake there. You obviously meant BEERS (the beverage) and not BEARS (the dangerous animal).

So I just wonder, if you take a bear overnight for only 55 baht, does the hotel make sure to take their ID? Definitely a good bargain for guys who like their sex on the adventurous side. But I'd be a bit leery of the BBBJ.[/QUOTE]

So does BBBJ = Bear Back Blow Job?

AT2