Phnom Penh

[QUOTE=GreenBud]
Wendella needs to retake "How to spot a ladyboy 101" LOL![/QUOTE]

Not really, I think it's a course I could teach. I was there about a year ago, and from my stool I didn't spot any. Doesn't mean they aren't there now, or even then -- maybe they just weren't near me. It's possible there could have been some I wouldn't have spotted, but my lay-dar is better than most. If there's guys here who say "there's ladyboys there", I would have spotted most if not all of them. Once I took part in a kind of online survey asking to look at 10 photos and pick out which were real girls and which real boys. Got one wrong. A few experts got all 10 right, most got 8 or less.

[QUOTE=Shadow6491]There are plenty of girls that do go from bar 69 and all the bars on 104st and 136st. You just have to ask. The fact that you waited until you have bought several drinks is not her fault. [/QUOTE]

Have to disagree. When they ask you for drinks one after another, are very touchy and affectionate, have never seen you before and therefore know you're a tourist, and also know you've almost surely been to Thailand already and therefore are expecting things to go a certain way, they're fully aware that they're playing on your expectation that after these drinks you'll be able to take the girl out. Otherwise who would lay out $40 (or however much) for free drinks for a bunch of girls who can't be taken out. (for that matter, who would go drink there?) But yes it looks like the reality is that you have to ask up front who here can go out and who can not. Which sucks. I think that's socially awkward enough that it rarely happens, and that's another key element of their game -- the game's set up so the inconvenient question won't often get asked; only the most hardcore mongers are going to actually ask that question.

First bar like that I went into, I felt totally scammed. I was getting massage from multiple angles, had the buxom #1 cutie next to me very affectionate and leaning against me while we talked. Then after too long a time and too many drinks, the jaw-droppingly shocking reply "No" when I asked her to go to hotel.

They play their customers, man. That's not our fault. They're the ones who write the script for the way it plays out. If you set something up in a deliberately deceptive way, yeah you have to own responsibility for that when the customer/victim is pissed off about it. Not that they would. But that's yet another aspect of the game: never own up. Plausible deniability.

I wonder if you think it's perfectly within their rights for Nigerian con men to send out their emails offering fake "lucrative business propositions". After all, its our responsibility to be careful. So therefore, they're not doing anything wrong. Cmon. That's lame.

[QUOTE=Wendella]Not really, I think it's a course I could teach. I was there about a year ago, and from my stool I didn't spot any. Doesn't mean they aren't there now, or even then -- maybe they just weren't near me. It's possible there could have been some I wouldn't have spotted, but my lay-dar is better than most. If there's guys here who say "there's ladyboys there", I would have spotted most if not all of them. Once I took part in a kind of online survey asking to look at 10 photos and pick out which were real girls and which real boys. Got one wrong. A few experts got all 10 right, most got 8 or less.[/QUOTE]

I was just joking. The ladyboys might not have been there at that particular time.

I'm not an expert, but my method is foolproof in spotting the ladyboys (or ex-guys). When in doubt, pass! There are so many others around that are obviously female.

I am finding more and more bars are employing young attractive girls who do not go with customers. I have had several incidents where I have had a very attractive young girl being very attentive and amorous, buy her drinks etc and then leaving the bar alone and pissed off. I make sure now, if I like a lady, that I find out earlier rather than later what the score is, saves a lot of anguish later in the evening.

As far as bars employing ladyboys goes, this is not a bad thing, as long as you don't get fooled (Unless of course you want to) I have found bars that have ladyboys, the girls are much more likely to perform better, because they have to compete to a certain extent with what the ladyboys do.

[QUOTE=GreenBud]I was just joking. The ladyboys might not have been there at that particular time.

I'm not an expert, but my method is foolproof in spotting the ladyboys (or ex-guys). When in doubt, pass! There are so many others around that are obviously female.[/QUOTE]Actually that doesn't sound like such a good method. First, let's admit it, a number of ladyboys are freakin' hot. They have a height advantage over females and I have seen some that were absolute stunners. This means that you have to be a bit careful of tall, stunning women. But not all tall, stunning women are ladyboy, some of them are just hot women, and you don't want to be rejecting these for something that is 'more obviously female'. Second, you're instincts will probably fail you at least once during your life, so perhaps you're going to find yourself in a sticky situation one day.

But really, just go with the flow, what's the worst that could happen? If it turns out you let one slip under the gaydar, just make your excuses, back away slowly and then run like hell! LOL.

Actually I have heard very few confirmed stories where a man was 'fooled' by a ladyboy. Most ladyboys flaunt their status rather than try to hide it and most men who go with them know exactly what they're dealing with 99% of the time.

[QUOTE=Rooter;1100761]I am finding more and more bars are employing young attractive girls who do not go with customers. I have had several incidents where I have had a very attractive young girl being very attentive and amorous, buy her drinks etc and then leaving the bar alone and pissed off. I make sure now, if I like a lady, that I find out earlier rather than later what the score is, saves a lot of anguish later in the evening.[/QUOTE]Nice to know that things haven't changed in Phnom Penh these past few years! Last time I was there was 2008, and it was the same story. Go into a bar, buy a girl a few drinks, chat her up for an hour while she kisses me amorously and grinds on me, touching and feeling all the right spots. But when it's time to take her out, I discover that she's "busy" or doesn't go with customers. What you need to do is ask. Be blunt and straightforward. If she asks you for a drink, before you buy, ask "do you go with customers?" If she's flippant or vague about it, then move on. It's not like Thailand where you know the score as soon as you walk into the bar.

[QUOTE=Wendella; 1100732]Not really, I think it's a course I could teach. I was there about a year ago, and from my stool I didn't spot any. Doesn't mean they aren't there now, or even then. Maybe they just weren't near me. It's possible there could have been some I wouldn't have spotted, but my lay-dar is better than most. If there's guys here who say "there's ladyboys there", I would have spotted most if not all of them. Once I took part in a kind of online survey asking to look at 10 photos and pick out which were real girls and which real boys. Got one wrong. A few experts got all 10 right, most got 8 or less.

Have to disagree. When they ask you for drinks one after another, are very touchy and affectionate, have never seen you before and therefore know you're a tourist, and also know you've almost surely been to Thailand already and therefore are expecting things to go a certain way, they're fully aware that they're playing on your expectation that after these drinks you'll be able to take the girl out. Otherwise who would lay out $40 (or however much) for free drinks for a bunch of girls who can't be taken out. (for that matter, who would go drink there?) But yes it looks like the reality is that you have to ask up front who here can go out and who can not. Which sucks. I think that's socially awkward enough that it rarely happens, and that's another key element of their game. The game's set up so the inconvenient question won't often get asked; only the most hardcore mongers are going to actually ask that question.

First bar like that I went into, I felt totally scammed. I was getting massage from multiple angles, had the buxom #1 cutie next to me very affectionate and leaning against me while we talked. Then after too long a time and too many drinks, the jaw-droppingly shocking reply "No" when I asked her to go to hotel.

They play their customers, man. That's not our fault. They're the ones who write the script for the way it plays out. If you set something up in a deliberately deceptive way, yeah you have to own responsibility for that when the customer / victim is pissed off about it. Not that they would. But that's yet another aspect of the game: never own up. Plausible deniability.

I wonder if you think it's perfectly within their rights for Nigerian con men to send out their emails offering fake "lucrative business propositions". After all, its our responsibility to be careful. So therefore, they're not doing anything wrong. Cmon. That's lame. [/QUOTE]Well even in the Thai go-gos now there are more and more girls that don't go out. The bars in Cambodia are called hostess bars after all and yes I am a hardcore monger who normally negotiate exactly what I expect in the room as well.

As for the Nigerian scammers It is my believe and I think it was quoted by someone famous a long time ago. That you can only con a dishonest man. All there scams involve you doing something that is illegal or is morally wrong.

One of the reasons I moved to Cambodia was I am a firm believer in taking responsibility for your own actions and their outcomes. Cambodia used not to have all these stupid laws that were created to protect you from yourself.

Please do not take this as a personal attack I enjoy your post and the information you provide others.

Perhaps you could actually blame the expats for some of the hostess bar behavior. There are many expats who treat the hostess bars as just a regular bar where you go to have a drink with your mates. And why not the drink prices are exactly the same if not cheaper in some cases, and for $3 a lady drink you can have a girl sit next to you and rub your crotch or give you a neck massage while you converse with your mates and play grab ass with the girls.

[QUOTE=Shadow6491; 1101040]Well even in the Thai go-gos now there are more and more girls that don't go out. The bars in Cambodia are called hostess bars after all and yes I am a hardcore monger who normally negotiate exactly what I expect in the room as well.

As for the Nigerian scammers It is my believe and I think it was quoted by someone famous a long time ago. That you can only con a dishonest man. All there scams involve you doing something that is illegal or is morally wrong.

One of the reasons I moved to Cambodia was I am a firm believer in taking responsibility for your own actions and their outcomes.

[/QUOTE]Well fortunately (?) things are set up so that we have no choice but to take responsibility for our actions. It's not like they're going to let us leave the bar without paying or anything.

"You can only con a dishonest man" is a myth. Do you really believe that Nigerian scammers abide by any kind of code of ethics like that? Friend of mine got cheated by a Nigerian coworker (!) who told him he could get him airline tickets at 10% less than they were offering at the travel agencies. Months later, turned out the piece of paper he got out of it for his $800 was just a reservation. I'm not saying there aren't any scams that play on the victim's own dishonesty, but there's also a lot more that don't. Your cute bit of folk wisdom says no, there's no such thing. Flat false. Fraud is a crime in every country in the world. When caught, the penalty is prison time. If you set out to deceive people in order to cheat them out of their money, that's fraud. I guess if you're saying that "the world is dangerous, so you have to be careful". Ok fair enough. Sure, of course. But if you're also saying that scammers are not to blame, or responsible, for their actions, then I'd say that seems a bit weird. I mean, if you did the same thing back to them and took them for any significant amount of money as a result, you wouldn't last long-so they sure don't see it that way.

[QUOTE=Shadow6491;1101043]Perhaps you could actually blame the expats for some of the hostess bar behavior. There are many expats who treat the hostess bars as just a regular bar where you go to have a drink with your mates. And why not the drink prices are exactly the same if not cheaper in some cases, and for $3 a lady drink you can have a girl sit next to you and rub your crotch or give you a neck massage while you converse with your mates and play grab ass with the girls.[/QUOTE]My gut feeling is to just blame the scammer for the scam and not to look elsewhere for people to blame. Seriously, they know they're playing a game. We know (after it happens) that we just got taken. I think those places expect to take some shit for it, and do take some shit for it pretty regularly. Every night, I would think. They know the score. The only part I don't get is why there's apologists for them up here. A scammer is a scammer. They don't need our help building sympathy for them. Their scams work fine without it.

Don't get me wrong. I think scammers are one of the lowest forms of life. They prey on the weak and vulnerable. Most often on people who are doing it tough and are looking for a bit of easy money. I make absolutely no apologies for them and hope they get either street justice or the book thrown at them. Scammers have no ethics they are thieves pure and simple.

However I don't think that most girls in the PP bars are scammers. I don't think they try to deceive punters into thinking that they will go home and fuck them if they are bought drinks. In fact if you do ask do they go out even before you by them a drink they will give you an honest answer even knowing that they may now not get a drink.

To me the whole idea of working girls is to cut out the nonsense of romance and heart break and all that drama.

I have a great time in the bars the girls treat me excellent I am considered a friend to lots of them.

[QUOTE=Shadow6491; 1101142]Don't get me wrong. I think scammers are one of the lowest forms of life. They prey on the weak and vulnerable. Most often on people who are doing it tough and are looking for a bit of easy money. I make absolutely no apologies for them and hope they get either street justice or the book thrown at them. Scammers have no ethics they are thieves pure and simple.

However I don't think that most girls in the PP bars are scammers. I don't think they try to deceive punters into thinking that they will go home and fuck them if they are bought drinks. In fact if you do ask do they go out even before you by them a drink they will give you an honest answer even knowing that they may now not get a drink.

To me the whole idea of working girls is to cut out the nonsense of romance and heart break and all that drama.

I have a great time in the bars the girls treat me excellent I am considered a friend to lots of them. [/QUOTE]I hear ya. Though I'd say your personal experience with these girls differs from others', including mine. Maybe its cuz you're an expat and I'm a tourist. They know not to pull these tricks on you. And to be fair, I wasn't treated that all the time or even mostly. Just ONCE actually. That is, one time when I went into one of those bars and decided I wanted to take out the one I was with, I got every impression from her up to that point that this was something that could happen if I wanted. But from what I read here, it sounds like that experience is common for others (at least some of the ones who post their experiences here). Actually I went to many of these bars but only saw that one that I wanted to go out with. That night at least. On another night I spotted one in a different bar, and it was obvious from the expression on her face that it was no-go with her. And on another night, I was talking with a girl who I was definitely interested in. And after very delicately putting the question to her, got a definite maybe which turned into a 'not tonight, tomorrow'. And that turned out to be what happened, took her out the next night at the scheduled time. It seemed to me that the reason I got the No on night #1 was because she was already booked by another customer. I think I spotted that transaction go down when she made a trip back to the bar to go pick up some customers' drinks.

But in that first bar, it was obvious I was being scammed. That girl turned on the juice full throttle. And the one who did go with me, she seemed shy if anything, definitely not trying to play up to me at all.

So I guess the qusetion is whether management of these places encourages the girls to do like the 1st one. I would bet that they do. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't discourage it. And you know that must lead to one bad scene after another from tourist customers. They can't be unaware.

Wow, I notice we can say 'shit' now. It used to show up as ****.

Hi, I am planning to stay for a while (maybe up to a year) in Cambodia from around February on.

I have read a lot of valuable reports here about the different cities, but what is your opinion about what's the best place to go to in regard of price / quality / quantity?

[i]Phnom Penh, Battambang (hardly read anything about it here) , Siem Riep or Sihanoukville? [/i]

Also what are the chances to find a longer-term relationship for a not-unattractive, fit guy in his end-20's?

Thanks a lot for your help to a Cambodia-newbie!

Depends on what yu intend on doing while in Cambo.

Snooky has beaches. Nothing else to do there except FSE (fuck sleep and eat). There's a casino.

PP has some touristy stuff. There's a casino FSE.

SR has Angko, FSE.

BB. Beats me what's there. Probably pretty cheap, though, You would prob need to speak Khmer there more than the others.

That's my 2 bhat.... Er... riel anyway

[QUOTE=AlLostInSpace13; 1100225]After reading good reports on the web about the 69 bar, I decided to try it last night.

At around 10pm I entered the door and discovered 2 male patrons inside surrounded by a dozen of hostess vultures. Figuratively speaking. I was ready for some close combats.

As soon as I sat down. 3 hostesses engaged me and immediately gave me massages. One of them actually gave good massage, so encourage her to keep going. And after some time, I bought a round of drinks for them.

Pretty soon I spotted a cutie by the bar and I invited her over. By the time, the 2 men had left and I was the only guy in the establishment. She couldn't do a good massage, but I decided to keep her for takeout.

After a few more rounds of drinks, I asked her out but she said NO. What the fcuk? Someone gave an explanation that she is having her period. I insisted and then heard another excuse that she's a virgin.

I thought that was my sign to cut the loss and paid the tab and ran. Damage was $37. More men had entered when I left.

I then crossed the street and checked out Candy bar. That bar is a dump. I saw a couple of lady boys as well. But fortunately I ran into a old girlfriend. Anna and so I took her out. 7 drinks altogether and barfine cost $30.

Anna took me to this disco that is around the corner of Walkabout called Saint Tropez (not sure if that's the real name, 'cause I only saw Khmer writing on the outside). Once inside I saw a few more cuties, but then it was too late to switch. Not without ruining my little left reputation. But I will revisit that place very soon on my own. .

Spaceman[/QUOTE]About your disco expeirence, can your share more with us (me). I also went to some of these disco's and yes the talent their seems much better then you will find in many bars. I expeirenced two problems: many of these girls don't speak English (or refuse to do) and making contact wasn't a hurdle. Is that because I am 50+ and these girls are not looking for a suggardaddy or?

Hope too hear your expierences.

The place is crab and some of the girls their also but if you wait and have the time from time till time you can find some pearls into this place as well.

Was there for the first time in August and had some nice hours late afternoon, a lot of fun playing pool and took also some young (20ish) girls too my hotel for the other fun part.

Some weeks ago I visited again, downstairs overloaded with people (in my view more long time stayers / expat people than tourist like me) and a large popularity of girls (more older than the youngsters that I saw in August). Did, over 3 days not found what I like to take out. Last week I was again in PP and to WA. More or less the same as last time.

On a certain evening (late, after 12 midnight) I played some round of pool with girls upstairs and on a certain moment I was alone on the balcony drinking and smoking. A 25+ girl, max 40 kilo approached me and asked if I would like to take her out. My spontaneous reaction: first see if you can win 3 rounds of pool from me and then you get your price!

Not sure (influenced by alcohol) if she or I won but I took her to my hotel (hotellandscape. Com – on the riverside). Upfront we discussed the price (US $20 for short time and if I wanted to take pics she wanted $10 extra).

Had some rounds of fun with her and kicked her out after around 1, 5 hours, took many pictures but on a certain moment she said 'pictures only for you not for the internet', well that is what I have too respect for that reason only some pics where you can't recognize here).