Pattaya Reports

[QUOTE=FLHawk;2497031] She acted very much like a traditional Thai GF, meaning no overt displays of affection in public, As I said, she asked for nothing from me and she never talked trashy or used her womanly, BG wiles. But she was not exactly a GF either. Well, during the day she was a perfect Thai GF. In bed, well, she was not any more passionate than the last time in Pattaya. I could say she was like a very shy, inexperienced lover, waiting for me to make all the moves, after which she would dutifully submit. But she would never initiate anything or even act to keep it going. I tried very hard to avoid anything to remind we had once had a professional relationship (or to show we might still be having such a relationship), which met giving her the chance to initiate things and have an equal say in what all we did.

She would cuddle up and touch a little, and wanted to sleep touching me, but if I was not pushing the foreplay, she would go to sleep. Twice I let that happen until several hours later I would wake her up! She was happily accommodating, but sex was something she could take or leave. It all left me a bit uncomfortable and unsatisfied and with the feeling she had no love or passion for me. But, I could have been asking too much too soon, or maybe she was being a GF to me but expected me to make all the moves, or she may have felt I was being too passive, or whatever.

But did she show enough feelings to warrant me taking her on that cruise we had talked about for April? If I was sure that this was all I was going to get then I should go on and cut my losses. Sure, she is fun, but I am getting old! I should perhaps be looking elsewhere, right? The lack of obvious love and passion got me down a bit, but when I thought about all that this woman had been through that year, it was unreasonable for me to expect too much from her.

But what was I looking for? I was looking for signs of potential love such that I would want to continue to see her to try to nurture those feelings. What kind of signs, though? They would be little things that one would do for one they had feelings for. Examples are how they kiss you or touch you or look at you, how often they call you or text you, the pictures they send, what they do for you, etc. We mongerors know that great sex is unrelated to love. A couple of BGs have given me "GFEs" that blew me away, but they sure didn't love me.

In all fairness, I could not have expected any more than what I got. [/QUOTE]Life is not a movie. It is rather monotonous for most people. You go to work and you go home. There are no sparks flying and no fireworks popping off. This chick was standoffish from the start. Why would you expect her to change into the freak of the week? And then when she does not it is no cruise for you!

You got exactly what you signed up for. There was no I was like this but I changed into that after I got him hooked. She has been the exact same. Not everyone shows love the same way nor has sex the same way. You are looking for her to ravage you like the sex fiend she is not.

That is why there is a thing called compatibility that we should observe when getting into something serious with someone. You forced this relationship, when judging from your reports there was no compatibility in the first place. You basically had to "make her" everything. There was nothing smooth and natural about this.

F. H.

Like I said I read your post and nothing you have written I haven't heard or seen first hand all the excuses are right there no matter how much you indicated or write to make it interesting it is a story that has been written many time over just a different writer and different day.

You are trying hard but the more you write the more clear what the ending will be job electronics, ten years, six month Soi 6, wasn't push into the life style, didn't act like a BG, first payment. You are on your way the most important thing is enjoy the ride the experience will stay with you for a lifetime and maybe learn some don't like Charlie Tuna go for the bait get thrown back into the ocean and take the bait again. You think she doesn't know why you came to Thailand for one thing and one thing only and no matter how close you get she will always know the reason you are here!

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2497088]Life is not a movie. It is rather monotonous for most people. You go to work and you go home. There are no sparks flying and no fireworks popping off. This chick was standoffish from the start. Why would you expect her to change into the freak of the week? And then when she does not it is no cruise for you!

You got exactly what you signed up for. There was no I was like this but I changed into that after I got him hooked. She has been the exact same. Not everyone shows love the same way nor has sex the same way. You are looking for her to ravage you like the sex fiend she is not.

That is why there is a thing called compatibility that we should observe when getting into something serious with someone. You forced this relationship, when judging from your reports there was no compatibility in the first place. You basically had to "make her" everything. There was nothing smooth and natural about this.[/QUOTE]Maybe quite maybe FH is the problem!

[QUOTE=FLHawk;2497031]She kept her word. We met at BKK and flew off to Phuket for about 8 days, then to Bangkok for 4 more.[/QUOTE]I assume this all happened several months ago?

There are few things more dreary and burdensome than assuming emotional and financial support for a life mate who doesn't even try to rock your world sexually at least every now and then.

It's kind of the story behind why many of us entered the world of mongering, isn't it?

And, imo, it is a particularly pertinent warning for those of us who monger in Thailand because, no matter how cute or sexy they look, a good 90% of those Thai girls are by nature rather lousy in bed and rarely if ever improve over time.

[QUOTE=FLHawk;2497031]

So was she acting like a GF or as a BG? Definitely not like a BG.[/QUOTE]That's where you're deluding yourself. She was in fact acting exactly like a BG or at least the way Pattaya BGs were ten years ago. I remember having girls tell me they love me, I don't have to pay them, I'm the only one who makes them feel that way, doing things that a "normal" couple would do and even taking me to their village to see their whole family. You think you experienced something unique but you didn't. It's all part of the GFE the hundreds or even thousands of other men who fucked your "sweetheart" probably experienced. It's just you're the sap who ended up taking it seriously. As for her taking lots of photos, ffs talk about clutching at straws. Every girl in the world does that these days, it means absolutely nothing.

[QUOTE=HorseTrader;2497061]Of course we saw that coming! The only question was if you would admit it to us. We are the same as you and can't imagine traveling 24 hours to Thailand and having sex with only one girl.[/QUOTE]Haha, so true. Well, I did briefly consider not admitting to that, but it IS part of story.

[QUOTE=Horatio;2497073]My two cents for what it's worth. I think if you want a sincere relationship you need to be honest. You lie to her it's fair she lies to you. Does she know you won't change but expect her to?[/QUOTE]I am wanting to get to the point where I CAN have a sincere relationship with her. But you are correct, before this relationship can become sincere, we will have to both be honest. And, spoiler alert, being honest can be painful.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2497088] This chick was standoffish from the start. Why would you expect her to change into the freak of the week? And then when she does not it is no cruise for you! [/QUOTE]I was not expecting a freakish performance. I didn't want her to be a BG with me, and she was unable to be a GF with me yet. I was disappointed at the time but, in hindsight, I was asking too much too soon. And the cruise was still on regardless. Even if no love, she was still fun to be with, and a cruise with her would either have been a blast, or the afternoon boredom would have had us at each other's throats.

[QUOTE] Not everyone shows love the same way nor has sex the same way. You are looking for her to ravage you like the sex fiend she is not. [/QUOTE]I was most certainly not looking for her to ravage me. That would have been BG behavior for her and would have spelled the end. Well. No, it would have guaranteed one more trip I suppose! Haha But, a little more foreplay, or her even starting the foreplay, was what I was hoping for. And I realize that we all show love differently and, at that point in time, her taking those pictures was enough to show at least a tiny bit of affection.

[QUOTE] You forced this relationship, when judging from your reports there was no compatibility in the first place. You basically had to "make her" everything. There was nothing smooth and natural about this.[/QUOTE]You speak a bit of truth here, my friend. But I did think there was a little bit of compatibility between us. I had been with nearly 300 others, some prettier and more energetic, but I never fell for them. It was things that Secret did, seemingly non-BGish, that sparked my increasing interest in her. Remember, we barely talked about sex and love ever. It was the normal, everyday things we talked about that drew me in. But of course, it was my desire to keep seeing her that allowed the relationship to continue once she expressed an interest, especially after she quit the bar scene. And true, given our age difference, distance separation and cultural differences, all of which I understood from the beginning, this could not be an exactly smooth, natural development. That this relationship is clearly doomed to fail is apparent. How long will she or I keep it going? What will finally end it? I mean, it WILL end! Right?

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2497098]F. H.

Like I said I read your post and nothing you have written I haven't heard or seen first hand all the excuses are right there no matter how much you indicated or write to make it interesting it is a story that has been written many time over just a different writer and different day. [/QUOTE]Haha. If I finish this story without throwing you a loop or two I will feel I have failed!

[QUOTE]You are on your way the most important thing is enjoy the ride the experience will stay with you for a lifetime and maybe learn. [/QUOTE]Yes, thank you. I was fully aware the relation was likely to fail but, again, she was fun to hang with and I just couldn't stand the thought of not spending some more time with her before throwing in the towel.

[QUOTE=Dg8787;2497108]Maybe quite maybe FH is the problem![/QUOTE]Maybe. Not really sure what problem you are referring to.

[QUOTE=Kerrstar;2497119]I assume this all happened several months ago?[/QUOTE]Just over a year.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2497138] There are few things more dreary and burdensome than assuming emotional and financial support for a life mate who doesn't even try to rock your world sexually at least every now and then.[/QUOTE]True. Well, I am getting old so bed performance will become less important over time! But note, I was not complaining that she was not a PSE. I was just hoping to see a bit of foreplay come from her.

[QUOTE==*****man;2497239]
That's where you're deluding yourself. She was in fact acting exactly like a BG or at least the way Pattaya BGs were ten years ago. I remember having girls tell me they love me, I don't have to pay them, I'm the only one who makes them feel that way, ..
[/QUOTE]You speak a great, general truth. But Secret was not telling me she loved me. She was not telling me I did not need to pay her (I will address this further below). She never told me I was the only one who ever made her feel that way. I wish! Haha I may wish, but I would not have believed her and had she said it I would have ended it.

[QUOTE]
You think you experienced something unique but you didn't. It's all part of the GFE the hundreds or even thousands of other men who fucked your "sweetheart" probably experienced.
[/QUOTE]I said we were doing unique things? We had fun during the day and the nights were rather bland. I have no idea how she performed with her other customers, and these kinds of thoughts, to include how many men she had been with, are the kind of thoughts all who fall for a BG have to deal with and agonize over. Had she not quit the bar I don't think I could have continued to deal with it. Part of the desire is that she DID quit, well before being with thousands of men. Were she hardened, no way could I have dealt with it.

[QUOTE]It's just you're the sap who ended up taking it seriously.
[/QUOTE]Perhaps.

[QUOTE]As for her taking lots of photos, ffs talk about clutching at straws. Every girl in the world does that these days, it means absolutely nothing.[/QUOTE]I don't think they take a ton of photos and videos of the dude if they don't like him. They will mostly take selfies to send to their friends. I could see a BG taking a few to send home to show mom the "sap" who will be paying for their new motorbike, but not dozens shots and dozens of videos of just one more "sap". Indeed, back in May 2019 we went out to Ko Larn and she took her camera. She took a few selfies and landscapes and a couple of me. The action of a BG or GF? Who knows at that stage? 6 months later, she was taking tons of me and us. Rather than being meaningless, it was definitely far more GF than BG behavior.

Regarding the need to pay. In your case, I presume you were in Pattaya and the girl lived in Pattaya and all she had to do was come to your hotel. Worst case, she may have lost out a BF. To see me, Secret had to travel 6 hours to meet with me and even delay her job search by a month. She never asked me for money, I simply told her I would pay her what she lost from not having a job for that time period, the amount of which I guessed. Seemed fair. Look at it from her side. She had to travel to see me and hope I would sufficiently compensate her for the funds she was losing for not having a job. And what if I refused to give her loan money after the trip? Giving up a BF for a good customer is within the realm of a BG. Secret was risking tens of thousands of baht to see me. That sound like something a BG would be risking?

And you say Secret was like a BG for having passive sex? Would you also say she would be acting like a BG if she gave me a PSE? What if one night she started in doggie, then spoon, then missionary, then some oral, then some more miss and finished off with reverse cowgirl? Would that be a sign she was acting like a BG too? Heck, I would call that honeymoon sex. So, what kind of sex could an ex-BG possibly have that was not BG-sex then? What can make it one way or the other depends on their intentions and attitudes, which we can not always know.

There are countless stories of TGs going for the job to make money for themselves and / or family, and countless ways they fool farang men to get the cash. Money being the thing that drives everything.

However prior to my experience (that is still ongoing), I never thought about how widespread narcissism is among the working girls, actually driving them for the job in addition to the cash. Working as freelancer in a club is actually a perfect job for a narc girl. Guys courting you all the time and giving money and other forms of adoration to get laid. Makes a narc feel in heaven.

If you stay with someone for a night or even two, even repeating that every now and then, you really don't get to see it (unless you really has eye into it or are a shrink). Met this gal almost a year back in WS club and took her for a night (she was quite new at the scene, finished with farang BF and come to work). She turned out to be in my all-time top 3 for her work and she really liked sex herself too, so became a regular, 1-2 times a week, and eventually agreed to a discounted deal for a month as she asked for it. That ended up being quite weird as she simply could not stay the month as she wanted to go to WS pretty much every second day. Can't take the bar out of girl I thought and just let it go, still continued to see her simply because she was good in her work. But it turned out it was not (at least only) that can't take bar out of girl, she was a 99% schoolbook narc.

Then the covid came and clubs closed. Business opportunity for her was substantially reduced (she had not worked via online channels, not her thing I think as she don't get the narc kicks from that) - so she asked for the long time deal again. By that time I already understood she was a narc, however thought not much to loose as can not go out myself to hunt anyway, and she was good. So stayed with her the 3 month closure period, and as expected, when it was over, she just had to go back. Continued on and off as she kind of wanted that I keep her as GF, yet she could not stay with me full time. By that time I had read enough about the disorder and just decided, knowing the risks, to play and see how the whole thing will work out. She went on and off, blocked me at one time, and again after a week or two came back telling how much she wants to be with me, and after a while same happened again. Few time since June, and currently situation is she blocked me again, I just waiting for how long. If I would no understand the narc in her, and would truly be in love, would actually be in deep shit. However just playing on to see how things go. One day things will burst for good I expect. But for now it kind of works ok. Whenever she goes, I can play others for a while, and fuck her when she comes back.

Every time she had stayed for few days, the moment came when she out-of-blue blamed me of something, not loving her as she loves me as she says. Initially was kind of weird experience as I knew what she said was not true; later it became kind of entertaining. Projecting her own actions on me and using that as excuse to finish, just like a narc does.

One time she was looking at the pictures I took of her, and told me my phone camera is not good as it had some imperfections showed on her skin that she did not see herself. Weird. She is good looking, however not perfect (esp face skin), though she herself think she is. Expecting compliments of appearance all the time and if not given, asking for those. Really a full-blown narc.

Wondering how common this disorder is among the working girls as for a narc woman, to work as a freelance hooker in a club is probably really rewarding.

[QUOTE=Knobrm;2497467]There are countless stories of TGs going for the job to make money for themselves and / or family, and countless ways they fool farang men to get the cash. Money being the thing that drives everything.

However prior to my experience (that is still ongoing), I never thought about how widespread narcissism is among the working girls, actually driving them for the job in addition to the cash. Working as freelancer in a club is actually a perfect job for a narc girl. Guys courting you all the time and giving money and other forms of adoration to get laid. Makes a narc feel in heaven.

If you stay with someone for a night or even two, even repeating that every now and then, you really don't get to see it (unless you really has eye into it or are a shrink). Met this gal almost a year back in WS club and took her for a night (she was quite new at the scene, finished with farang BF and come to work). She turned out to be in my all-time top 3 for her work and she really liked sex herself too, so became a regular, 1-2 times a week, and eventually agreed to a discounted deal for a month as she asked for it. That ended up being quite weird as she simply could not stay the month as she wanted to go to WS pretty much every second day. Can't take the bar out of girl I thought and just let it go, still continued to see her simply because she was good in her work. But it turned out it was not (at least only) that can't take bar out of girl, she was a 99% schoolbook narc..[/QUOTE]It has been suggested many other times that rather than narcissism, that it is borderline personality disorder which is prevalent throughout the industry. I have seen it a few times myself and have become quite attuned to its signals. Too much to write about it here, do some research online and you might agree.

It may be a stupid question but I have been in Pattaya for just 1 day for the first time last month (and I will be going to Pattaya for 2 more days next week). Could someone suggest me some short time Hotels along the beach road or near Soi 6 or 8? Are there any?

On my last visit to Pattaya, I thought it would be quite simple to find a short time hotel (if I ended up needing one for a Thaifriendly girl) as the likes in Bangkok along Soi 4 or Soi 7/1 etc. But at the end any google search didn't help at all and also the TF girl had no clue: the.

Is there a medical condition for Guys who sign service contracts with Bargirls. LOL.

[QUOTE=FLHawk;2497031]I could say she was like a very shy, inexperienced lover, waiting for me to make all the moves, after which she would dutifully submit. But she would never initiate anything or even act to keep it going.[/QUOTE]First, if she really wants to show she is not a BG then simply acting in the opposite way would be an obvious choice. But that is the Western point of view. She is from the East and if she really sees you as a potential life partner than she would act like she was told most of her life: submissive to her man. I encountered some non-working girls in Thailand (From Bkk on holiday in Chiang Mai) and they are extremely shy. So her behavior is maybe not what you would like but I do think she was acting truthfully. By the way any man that thinks a woman, any woman, would pollute her camera with loads of your pictures if she dislikes you, just seems fit here: go mongering. You don't get it.

[QUOTE=FLHawk;2497031]The lack of obvious love and passion got me down a bit, but when I thought about all that this woman had been through that year, it was unreasonable for me to expect too much from her.[/QUOTE]That is your Western point of view. To understand her you would have to learn a bit about her culture. Not just in books but asking her and be amazed at times.

[QUOTE=FLHawk;2497031]Yeah, I left Secret and went to Pattaya for 10 days. Bet you guys didn't see that coming? Haha You say you can't take the BG out of the BG. Is it also true you can't take the mongeror out of the mongeror?[/QUOTE]You did it before. You will do it again. What is more troublesome is that you still ask truthfulness from Secret. And you will reward that with money? Really? Then some people here still think about her deceiving you for money. To me it just seems the other way round.

Well, seems this gal has good coverage of symptoms from both BPD and NPD lists. Would need someone with more knowledge of the subject matter to make a definite classification if it has to be one or the other.

Nevertheless, has been quite enlightening experience for me as have not experienced this type of person before in any kind of personal relationship. Seen some narcs in work but is different.

One weird case when she was on her off-cycle and suddenly contacted me to go and pay her bill at doctor / hospital. I just told I will only give money if stay with me, and she just hang up. Lately the incident came up in another discussion and she was wondering why I did not come and pay for her. She told some other guy (customer or sponsor not sure) she contacted send her money. Further, she was wondering why I not give her money more than agreed as some other guys are sending from overseas, those being the 'good men', whereas I was 'not a good man' at that moment. I asked why she does not want to have sex for free, and she completely did not understand how that relates to whether guys send her money or not. She just felt blindly entitled to get the cash. Weird.

[QUOTE=Ncc1701A;2497583]It has been suggested many other times that rather than narcissism, that it is borderline personality disorder which is prevalent throughout the industry. I have seen it a few times myself and have become quite attuned to its signals. Too much to write about it here, do some research online and you might agree.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Knobrm;2497467]I never thought about how widespread narcissism is among the working girls, actually driving them for the job in addition to the cash. Working as freelancer in a club is actually a perfect job for a narc girl. Guys courting you all the time and giving money and other forms of adoration to get laid. Makes a narc feel in heaven.[/QUOTE]It is not narcissism. It is called being in your 20s. That is why I laugh when guys are thinking these freelance chicks are only thinking about money. Wrong. They are thinking about having a good time.

When I was in my 20's that is all me and my friends did too. We had the VIP cards to all the clubs in Atlanta and damn near every night we were going out partying. These chicks are no different; especially when they have been sitting on a boring ass farm waking up at 4am all of their lives.

If you want to make a deal like that then do it with either a chick that is in her 30's or a chick that has a normal job to go to everyday. Stop being surprised when party girls want to keep being party girls. You are not going to tame any wild mustangs in Pattaya. Get you a couple of rides and move on.

I am all aware that it is not only money that matters (I am in the same group with you re the price we accept to pay, and still have no shortage of company), as well as of the party girl feature (she definitely is, just like many other), and well aware that vast majority of the freelance gals are not interested or capable to stay put for long. It is all normal in the setting. However this chick has so many abnormal traits that are downright strange so that after a short while with her (on and off) it became clear that some part of wiring in her head is wrongly connected and / or missing. She simply is disconnected from reality at times, delusional, projects her own behavior to me as an explanation of why she got angry etc. Triggered me to actually read more about NPD, however knew enough to begin with so that noticed the thing in her early (may well be BPD; anyway something that makes her impossible to behave normally).

She actually has passed 30, and has some baby damage on belly (but still good looking) so it is not about age nor she would not have experience of life. Never worked in farm either. Not willing to tell much about the split with the father actually correlates with the disorder, most likely the reason.

Anyway, enough said, this is not a shrink forum so would need to raise the subject in some other place for further analysis and comments. However was / is so interesting experience that thought would post here. Now wondering if fucking her is over for good or she come back again after a period of blocking 555.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2497774]It is not narcissism. It is called being in your 20s. That is why I laugh when guys are thinking these freelance chicks are only thinking about money. Wrong. They are thinking about having a good time.

When I was in my 20's that is all me and my friends did too. We had the VIP cards to all the clubs in Atlanta and damn near every night we were going out partying. These chicks are no different; especially when they have been sitting on a boring ass farm waking up at 4am all of their lives.

If you want to make a deal like that then do it with either a chick that is in her 30's or a chick that has a normal job to go to everyday. Stop being surprised when party girls want to keep being party girls. You are not going to tame any wild mustangs in Pattaya. Get you a couple of rides and move on.[/QUOTE]