Pattaya Reports

[QUOTE=HorseTrader;2498466]The three most important things about a Thai "girlfriend" are the same as real estate: location, location, and location. If she won't send her location via Line, you know she is lying.[/QUOTE]I beg to differ. A lot chicks have no idea how to use that location shit. Here you go thinking we are talking about brain surgeons again. Plenty of times I have had chicks on the way to see me and I send them my location then they get lost. I ask where they are and to send location and they have no idea how to do it and I have to go out and hunt for them. Then there are others that know how to send location for me to get to them but it is the totally wrong location. As far as them sending location in order to try to catch them in a lie, I could care less. When you catch them in a lie then what?

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2498472]I beg to differ. A lot chicks have no idea how to use that location shit. Here you go thinking we are talking about brain surgeons again. Plenty of times I have had chicks on the way to see me and I send them my location then they get lost. I ask where they are and to send location and they have no idea how to do it and I have to go out and hunt for them. Then there are others that know how to send location for me to get to them but it is the totally wrong location. As far as them sending location in order to try to catch them in a lie, I could care less. When you catch them in a lie then what?[/QUOTE]I've never found one who didn't know how to send a Line location. It was a Thai girl who showed me how to use it. Her ability to read my Line location and find me might not be very good.

Sometimes its precision isn't so good, maybe off by 200 meters. I've never seen it show the wrong city unless VPN or something else is involved.

Knowing lies are involved is one piece of the puzzle. If you are just banging her from time to time, it really doesn't matter. If you are paying off the farm mortgage and dreaming of a life together, it is a big deal.

I am late to the party, but some observations.

1. Seems all events were as per expected except for Secret's level of devotion, all things considered. I might even suspect there was more going on behind the scenes with her than what was reported or recognized.

2. Money and feelings are orthogonal to one another. They are not two ends of the same spectrum. Wanting money does not equate to not having feelings. Not wanting money does not equate to having feelings. The challenge in many situations such as these is that one person has an abundance of money and opportunity and the other does not. Should the one who does not be subject to excess scrutiny because she would like something of substance from the one who has money?

3. Even when receiving money from someone, it is fully understandable if the girl continues to seek money elsewhere. Their careers, if we can call it a career, are short. They can see beside them people who are at the end of their earning power and are about to return to life with next to nothing. Is it wrong of them to try to maximize earnings during the short time they have to make money?

4. Why should she stop working under vague promises from a foreigner? Would you go to work for a year or two or three without pay or being paid much less than you are worth under a non-contractual promise that all back pay will come to you in 2025?

5. Even in the present day, the girls are more often than not working from word of mouth, and urban myths about money, while facing so many people who are trying to free them of whatever money they are able to extract from foreigners. Is it not unsurprising that sometimes they make curious or seemingly silly decisions?

I mention all of this because when we contextualize this to the Secret story, then we actually see a girl who has interest in a foreigner, is willing to bend for him, but is confused because he seems to be testing her and not bending completely for her. She cannot trust him and even if she can trust the foreigner, she knows she should not trust him because her clock is ticking and she needs to take care of her financial responsibilities and her life while the short window to do so exists. Put another way, she incurs substantial opportunity costs in the relationship, so not surprising she becomes cold and distant as she feels that she is not understood and that maybe the guy in whom she had genuine interest, is only playing her for the short to medium term.

If one is generally interested in a relationship with any SE Asian girl from a bar, then you have to be prepared to take a leap of faith and bear some financial risk. Who knows, it might work?

As for my own case, over the past couple of decades I have had a few all-in relationships, that have not been cheap (a few houses spread across three to four different countries attest to this), but for the time in which I was interested in the person, the relationships went as well as could be expected. But maybe that is a series of stories for another time.

Age is always important. If it's not please disclose age of secret and yourself.

I know quite a few Seniors who think young Thai girls really like Loving Old Farang Man. They say it's Thai culture. In person I give them the You go Man Power Fist.

[QUOTE=HorseTrader;2498466]The three most important things about a Thai "girlfriend" are the same as real estate: location, location, and location. If she won't send her location via Line, you know she is lying. Not too different from the Secret story.
[/QUOTE]Do you mean "location" as in her enabling her location app services on her phone so you can track her? Who would allow that? I certainly would not, at least not until a relationship is established and it the primary purpose was for safety. If "location" as in proving they lived where they said, well, I knew where Secret lived, which I confirmed. I knew where she lived in Bangkok, likewise verified. I have a copy of her driver's license and of her passport, all of which she freely gave me without me asking. One thing I would not do is ask for her to enable her location app service as that would be a huge sign of lack of trust. And if she asked me I would decline.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;2498249] A good girl does not come up with a tragic story and ask for extra money, but this one did.[/QUOTE]No, she did not.

[QUOTE=DioRetz;2498362]I may not be too fluent in Thai- English but Hawk just wrote that she is working in a factory and then suspicion rose. He asked for clarification and got this text. So, I am curious as to what this means. The dot might be his. A keyword might be missing but the context doesn't point to a neutral meaning of those words. [/QUOTE]The text was verbatim. A "dot" may be significant. The translation was done at her end so I did not have the original Thai to refer to.

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2498384]Seems I'm alone? First I think Google is one of the worse for translation I wouldn't use it for anything more than a word! Facebook translation is even worse you can't even make out what they are talking about from the translation.

[/QUOTE]These translation programs we can access for free and which work almost instantly are terrific but, of course, they can be so wrong! By this time in the story, we both now of the problems. Note there is one app which will do a reverse translation as well. Enter your text, get the translation and then it translates the translation back to English. Occasionally, what you get back is not quite what you intend to send out. I don't use it a lot for casual conversations, but since I discovered it a few months ago, if I want to be precise I will use it. But for sure, use these apps with caution.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;2498173] What I objected to and found distasteful in his storytelling was the way he continually assumed the readers were as nave as he was. That we did not see the end coming from the very beginning. [/QUOTE]I said at the beginning I was writing this for the poor hapless gentlemen who falls for a bar girl and, thus, they are not experienced, wise and knowledgeable like you guys. And I said the intent was to help them and give them some hints for separating the bad ones from the good ones. I also said I would not be bothering if this was going to be just another story about an old dude falling for a bar girl.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;2498173] This tale should stand as another example in a long list of examples of how not to act with P4P girls and what not to put up with. Again, a punter can do what he wants, but when he starts believing the GFE fantasy is real and allows himself to fall for the con, whatever form the con takes, he inadvertently sets into motion the end of that very relationship that he sought to hold onto. [/QUOTE]What have I been putting up with from her? How is she conning me? I may be a bit in a fantasy world, but I am not in some la la land throwing out cash at her expecting immediate love and happiness. I am willing to wait a month or two for that, haha.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;2498173] I have a very simple rule: If a favorite, repeat girl asks me to send money for whatever reason, I simply tell her I cannot and that is that. Then I deduct a point from her scorecard. If I were ever have to deduct 3 points in total, the liaison is over. That said, most of my favorite girls never ask for Western Union. But a few do. Then Corona changed everything, and most, but not all of my repeat favorites asked for money. I sent each girl who asked a little bit ($150) with no points deducted, ha ha, and told them it was a one-time thing. They all accepted the gift gratefully and never asked for more money. I am still in touch with them all and I hope to see them again as soon as possible. [/QUOTE]Probably a good plan. Prior to Secret, there was a semi-favored Soi 6 woman who was a decent lady. She was a hardened gal, but I showed her some kindness and her heart melted. We sort of became friends, but when I met Secret I stopped bar fining her, though I would buy some lady drinks and give a little bit of cash as I knew she loved animals and she was caring for a number of them. We have texted a little bit since last year, and she is working outside the bar now, but she is struggling. Last week she texted me and asked for some help. Like you, I sent her $150.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;2498173] As I wrote in a previous post, I think the OP blew his relationship with the Soi 6 girl because he let emotional BS enter the relationship. Maybe he wanted to take that ride to nowhere, maybe not. But if he has any self-respect left, his relationship with the girl is over. So, move on guy. Learn from your mistake, but do not let the experience harden you.[/QUOTE]Haha. I do appreciate your concern as well as your advice and honest appraisal of the relationship as you see it.

[QUOTE=FLHawk;2498517]The text was verbatim. A "dot" may be significant. The translation was done at her end so I did not have the original Thai to refer to.

These translation programs we can access for free and which work almost instantly are terrific but, of course, they can be so wrong! By this time in the story, we both now of the problems. Note there is one app which will do a reverse translation as well. Enter your text, get the translation and then it translates the translation back to English. Occasionally, what you get back is not quite what you intend to send out. I don't use it a lot for casual conversations, but since I discovered it a few months ago, if I want to be precise I will use it. But for sure, use these apps with caution.[/QUOTE]I write it again because my last post might have been lost between others.

If she effectively wrote in Thai first and then translated it via an application or google translate, the meaning of these sentences is very clear, misunderstanding what she meant is not possible.

She said she doesn't like working in the factory, she likes working in the bar.

Thais don't use the word "like" as a synonym of the word "same".

If she wanted to say "working in the factory is the same as working in the bar" or "working in the factory is not the same as working in the bar" she would have used another word that would have been translated as the word "same" by google translate or another app. And she would have used the word "same" also if it came out of her mind without using a translate app.

The only Thais that could use the word "like" as a synonym of "same" are Thais that are highly educated and can write and speak English very well, what seems to not be the case with your girl.

You're going to tell us what she said after that in your next update but for me the translation seems correct, she likes to work in the bar.

[QUOTE=FLHawk;2498517]If "location" as in proving they lived where they said, well, I knew where Secret lived, which I confirmed. I knew where she lived in Bangkok, likewise verified. I have a copy of her driver's license and of her passport,[/QUOTE]Man I know you are lying now. In all these years I have seen about 2 Thai chicks with a driver's license and both of those was when I was at the Department of Land Transport getting my own.

[QUOTE=Paolo99;2498543]She said she doesn't like working in the factory, she likes working in the bar.[/QUOTE]I made a mistake in that translation as I didn't read back the sentences.

But as you probably noted, she said that she doesn't work in the factory.

For the second sentence, I'm sure of the translation, she likes to work in the bar.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2498553]Man I know you are lying now. In all these years I have seen about 2 Thai chicks with a driver's license and both of those was when I was at the Department of Land Transport getting my own.[/QUOTE]OK, her government ID, not driver's license. Sheesh. My bad.

[QUOTE=FLHawk;2498517]Do you mean "location" as in her enabling her location app services on her phone so you can track her? Who would allow that?[/QUOTE]No, I'm certainly not talking about continuous location tracking. I'm talking about the bottom of the Line text message window has a "+”. Tap that plus and then tap "Location". That sends your location at that moment, it is not ongoing (as far as I know).

You would need to make such request casually as in "I can't find your factory on my map. Can you send me your location to help me understand?“

If she has nothing to hide, she will do it. If she says she is in BKK while she is actually in Pattaya, she will make excuses and not send it.

I've had several non-P4P girls send me pictures of interesting things and I ask location. Never have they hesitated to send their location. Camping vacation places. Temples. Beaches. Floating market. Rivers. A couple have even sent location from parents homes in Isaan. But these are non-P4P girls who aren't hiding anything, all of whom I've gotten to know from time spent together and many hours in video chat.

I've also done it with P4P girls that I met on ThaiFriendly or at the bars. In those cases it has been when we were trying to find each other. That's where imprecise accuracy is sometimes a problem.

We have been having some interesting discussions on the board, one subject having to deal with the true meaning of what Secret last texted. That will be revealed shortly guys.

But before I go on let me quickly inject a side story. For whatever reason, I had not yet considered that she may have a social media account. Rather dumb of me not to consider that. But a couple of months after this event, I thought to look and I found it. I found that at this very same time something else was going on in her life. Just a couple of days later she posted a message on her account saying that the day would be "very discouraging" and would be the "worst day of my life". What the hell? She also said she would start again with new things the next day and, indeed, the next day she posted that she was "feeling confident". Again, what the hell? What could possibly be happening to make something the worst day of her life one day and then for her to have confidence that all would ok the next? But yeah, it seemed that while I was complaining to her about not texting much in the last few days, she was stressed about something horrible and possibly life changing that would occur just a couple of days later. No wonder she was not texting me and why she snapped at me! It was like with Korea. In the days leading up to that decision she pretty much went silent and ignored me. This was happening again. Something was bothering her and she didn't want to burden me with it for fear I would walk away (I supposed). I will say that while I have an idea of what happened, gleaned from another source or two that has since been lost and / deleted, I really don't know. But if I am right, she would indeed be very upset up until after it happened, with some peace thereafter.

OK, back to the story. To remind, she had told me "I don't work in the factory. Like working in bar. " I will add that she wrote the original message in Thai, then she translated it to English, using Google Translate I believe, then sent it to me over Line. The words and punctuation I received are as I presume Google processed them.

Well, to me, the meaning was clear. She didn't work at the factory anymore as she discovered that she like working in the bar better. The wording was a little off, but I am used to errors on Google Translate. And with her two-day absence from texting me and other little things, it seemed pretty clear she was off doing something, and I guess she went off to Pattaya to work in the bar again. What other city would she go to work in a bar? I have heard of BGs who say they hate the work but, after leaving and finding a legit job, they soon return to the bar. I can understand that. Bar work is physically easy and it can be fun, at least once you get used to have sex with strangers and all of that. Not to mention that the pay might be much better. And I knew that for the last 6 months Secret had not made much money being away from the bar. I she felt she had to return to the bar then, well, a girl has to do what a girl has to do.

Anyway, romantic me wrote back saying "I wondered about that. It is hard to leave the bar. " Yeah, really wise, Hawk. Stupid idiot. Let you know you don't trust her.

She confused me a bit with her reply, "But getting out of the bar was easy for me". Huh? So it was easy to leave but she is back? So to clarify, I asked "Are you back in Pattaya?" Another stupid response to really get the point across I don't trust her. Sigh. She snapped "You think I returned to Pattaya? I have to stay awake to answer your questions, right? If you think I went to Pattaya, I won't say anything more. " She was a bit upset. I say, confused "You just told me you were not working at the factory and you liked working in a bar! I am confused. " She replied "I said that I would never go back to Pattaya. I hate that place. " She continued "I told you that I work at a company. I don't have time to talk to you like I did when I work at the bar. ".

Ok. There it is. Chalk up another mistranslation, and chalk up two insensitive texts by me. And congratulations to Mr. E and Banana Boi! You called it exactly right, with Mr. E saying:

[I] To me it reads nothing like that. It says working in the factory is not the same as working in a bar. In a bar you have all the free time in the world to goof off and write love messages, take 1 million meaningless pictures. In a factory you are on an assembly line working at a constant pace and when you get a break you just want to relax a moment and have time for yourself. I am tired. Give me a fucking break with the needy bullshit.[/I] Spot on, haha, except that she was facing the worst day of her life coming up.

I was correct in realizing that something was up. I raised the point, though in a less than sensitive way to her. She snapped back as the was trying to keep me halfway satisfied so I would not dump her, yet while dealing and planning for this upcoming, horrible event she didn't want to talk about with me. That I accused her of returning to the bar, a big sign of mistrust, just made things worse and added to her worries. Knowing what I now, and if my guess about what was happening is correct, she should have felt comfortable coming to me. Maybe she would have had I not shown my mistrust first.

So for you hapless gentlemen who falls for a BG, be very careful before you accuse your special lady of something. Think about what her life is like before you complain. It is ok to do some research so you don't get blindsided with something obvious, but if you suspect something, unless she is asking for something from you to where you must respond immediately, consider doing nothing. Wait. I, sensing something was wrong, automatically assumed she was drifting away. Maybe she was, but my complaining was a bit juvenile. If I had kept quiet, all would have returned to normal in another 5 days and there would not have been a betrayal of my trust and, as I said, she might have opened up to me about it.

Anyway, a week or two later she lost her job due to the virus. Many places in Thailand started to shut down. Then her mother and younger sister came to town and stayed with the older sister. Secret tried to find work in Bangkok but ended up deciding to go home with the others where it was safe. She still was due two land payments from me, so with the money she had made working since after the Phuket trip, she felt she had some time to wait for things to settle. And no, I was not giving her any other money, nor did she ask for any more. So, again, she had NEVER asked me for money.

Things kind of returned to normal when she got back home. Texting returned to a normal schedule similar to what it had been before the Phuket trip, but while friendly and with some flirting, there was still nothing that I considered special. Looking back, the fact she kept texting me might have been special, well, except that I was still sending her farm loan money. Let me say she never appeared she was texting me to keep me sending money. I was still expecting to see her in April and take that crise with her, but I was less optimistic about us continuing on much beyond that. And, of course, the country and then the world began to shut down and it soon became apparent there would be no cruise and it could be a long time before we could see each other again. I started to get a feeling Secret was in for hard financial times and that I might get sucked in. Was I prepared for that? Surely thing would be coming back to normal my mid-year! Right?

But a week or two after the family returned home I got another one of those bloody photos. Her younger sister had been in a horrible auto accident. This is real guys. Just like the motorbike accident was real, this was real with a real call out for blood donors. It is all documented in social media. Her teenaged sister's leg was crushed and fractured into pieces and pieces. It looked horrible. She was in horrible pain. She would likely lose a leg. Here is yet another horror for Secret to deal with. She needs to find work, but her baby sister needs her even more at the hospital over 100 miles from home (the local hospital could not deal with that level of trauma and had to transport her to a large city). The mother can't provide care. The oldest sister has two children of her own, including a toddler, and a job in Bangkok and can't provide care. Yet again, Secret has to do it, and she wants to do it.

I see that this is one time Secret really needs some emotional support. Am I up to the task? Or is there someone else she will turn to?

Ratings are in for October and as expected Hawk's edge of the seat suspense drama on his relationship with a Thai working continued its dominance of the forum's readership.

It led comfortably in all demographics but had an off the charts record breaking 95% among the over 70's. .

Industry insiders put the phenomenal success of the series down to its relatability factor, most readers having had at one time or another similar tales of love lost and what might have been.

Returning to the ratings ET's updates on what's happening around town was a distant second and has been falling steadily over the months, readers finding his constant references to bare backing a turn off.

Going forward November's election coverage is expected to introduce some competition for Hawk but industry insiders say the story's fan base is so loyal and so invested in what happens next that holding the number one spot is a no brainer.

Inside chatter among media heads is that there is already a bidding war going on between Netflix and Amazon prime.

Just saw a walk down Walking St. By a YouTuber. Absolute devastation. It may not recover.

[QUOTE=DannyDuck;2498499]Age is always important. If it's not please disclose age of secret and yourself.[/QUOTE]FL has already revealed both his age and Secret's age on this board.

Some photos from Walking Street the other night. Certainly not nearly as quiet as lead to believe.

New gogo bars opening soon so definitely not dying.

That's FL Hawk in the pink shirt lost looking for Secret.