Printable View
[QUOTE=JohnClayton;2943374]How is this prediction aging?[/QUOTE]You're an idiot that has zero understanding of battle. Check how long it took for Soledar to fall, and then Bakhmut, and then Avdivka. These were / are all heavily fortified cities, like Pokrovsk. I didn't give a time line but as I said, Pokrovsk will fall. This is a war of attrition. Stuff you do not understand. Stick to punting.
[QUOTE=Tiny12;2943347]
You kind of moved the goal posts, as initially you only asked us to name countries where enemy troops were occupying large chunks of territory. You didn't say at first there had to be ongoing fighting.[/QUOTE]Of course he did. I had just said that 'countries have held elections during wartime'. Which is a fact. Another fact is that Zelensky's mandate expired a while back. Now he is nothing more than a dictator. The latest purge and shakeup of his cabinet is further proof because now more of his cronies will get the top posts. His end will be similar to Ashaf Ghani's. Then I wonder what all the fools that consider that corrupt clown a hero will say.
[QUOTE=Tiny12;2943347]You kind of moved the goal posts, as initially you only asked us to name countries where enemy troops were occupying large chunks of territory. You didn't say at first there had to be ongoing fighting.[/QUOTE]You implied that it is normal for countries to have elections while fighting wars, but could not even find one example that is similar to the situation in Ukraine.
During kinetic wars, countries don't have elections, so stop pushing the Orc narratives direct from the Kremlin.
[QUOTE=BloodRed;2943500]Of course he did. I had just said that 'countries have held elections during wartime'. Which is a fact. Another fact is that Zelensky's mandate expired a while back. Now he is nothing more than a dictator. The latest purge and shakeup of his cabinet is further proof because now more of his cronies will get the top posts. His end will be similar to Ashaf Ghani's. Then I wonder what all the fools that consider that corrupt clown a hero will say.[/QUOTE]Tell us about Putin's mandate and how he represents the will of the Russian people, since you are such an expert on democracy and legitimacy.
You might have to start looking for new work now that your job with Tenet media is ending.
[QUOTE=VinDici;2943507]Tell us about Putin's mandate and how he represents the will of the Russian people, since you are such an expert on democracy and legitimacy.
You might have to start looking for new work now that your job with Tenet media is ending.[/QUOTE]I have never said Russia is a shining example of a democracy, show me where I did. But my comments about the corrupt actor are correct. History will not judge this greedy **** kindly; he took Ukraine down the primrose path after campaigning on a platform for peace.
[QUOTE=VinDici;2943506]You implied that it is normal for countries to have elections while fighting wars, but could not even find one example that is similar to the situation in Ukraine.
During kinetic wars, countries don't have elections, so stop pushing the Orc narratives direct from the Kremlin.[/QUOTE]I should take this back to my Orc handlers but think I can handle it on my own. What's a kinetic war?
You and / or Xpartan asked for an example of a country that conducted elections while a hostile force held part of a country. I came back with several. I offered no opinion on whether Ukraine should or shouldn't hold elections. All you should have done is come back and say it's unconstitutional for elections to be held in Ukraine when its under martial law, instead of doubling down on an unsupportable position.
I do believe elections during war time are a good idea. I'm a pacifist and believe military and political elites sometimes continue wars when the majority of the populace doesn't want to send their young men off to die any longer. Elections are a good way to make the elites accountable. The lines between Russia and Ukraine have moved very little since November of 2022. There's no good reason other than the constitution why it shouldn't have held elections.
As to your post, why is South Korea not a good example of your and Xpartan's latest request, for a country that held elections while at war and while a hostile force held part of its claimed territory?
Here are some more examples. I can come back with a lot more now that I have a paid subscription to ChatGPT!
France (1940's) - During World War II, parts of France were occupied by Nazi Germany, but elections were held by the French Resistance in liberated areas.
Vietnam (1956) - Vietnam, divided into North and South, held separate elections while foreign forces were present, particularly French and USA Forces in the south and Chinese forces aiding the North.
Afghanistan (2004,2009, 2014) - Afghanistan held elections while parts of the country were under the control of Taliban forces and USA Military operations were ongoing.
Iraq (2005) - Iraq held parliamentary elections while USA And coalition forces were present, and parts of the country were contested by insurgent groups.
Ukraine (2014,2019) - Ukraine has held multiple elections since 2014 while Russia occupied Crimea and parts of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions.
Georgia (2008) - Georgia held elections while Russian forces occupied the regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia.
Israel (1948) - Israel held its first national elections in 1949 shortly after declaring independence in 1948, during the Arab-Israeli War, when several Arab states occupied parts of what is now Israel.
Lebanon (1972,1992, 2009) Lebanon held elections while parts of the country were occupied by Syrian forces and during the Israeli occupation of southern Lebanon (until 2000).
Bosnia and Herzegovina (1996) After the Bosnian War (19921995), the country held elections while NATO-led peacekeeping forces (IFOR and later SFOR) were deployed, and the Serb Republic (Republika Srpska) had de facto control over part of the territory.
Palestinian Territories (2006) The Palestinian legislative elections were held while Israel occupied the West Bank and blockaded Gaza.
Cyprus (1974 onward) Cyprus has held elections since the Turkish invasion in 1974, during which Turkey took control of the northern part of the island, leading to the creation of the unrecognized Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus.
East Timor (1999) East Timor held a referendum on independence from Indonesia while the country was occupied by Indonesian forces. This led to violence and intervention by international peacekeeping forces.
Kuwait (1992) Kuwait held elections after the Gulf War, during which Iraqi forces occupied the country. Although the occupation had ended by the time of the election, the post-war context was shaped by the invasion and occupation.
West Germany (1949) West Germany (Federal Republic of Germany) held its first elections while parts of the country were under Allied occupation following World War II.
Kosovo (2001) After the Kosovo War and the withdrawal of Serbian forces, Kosovo held elections under international administration by the United Nations while NATO forces were still present.
Congo (DRC) (2006) The Democratic Republic of the Congo held elections while foreign forces from Rwanda, Uganda, and other regional players had intervened, and local militias controlled various parts of the country during the Second Congo War (19982003).
Mali (2013) After the 2012 rebellion in northern Mali and the intervention of French forces, elections were held while parts of the north remained under control of separatist and Islamist groups.
Nicaragua (1984) Nicaragua held elections during the Contra War, where USA -backed Contra rebels occupied and fought for control over parts of the country against the Sandinista government.
Sudan (2010) During Sudan's 2010 elections, conflict continued in the Darfur region, where insurgent groups occupied territories and rebelled against the central government.
Myanmar (Burma) (2010) While Myanmar held elections, parts of its territory were (and still are) controlled by ethnic insurgent groups and military forces involved in ongoing conflict.
Colombia (ongoing) Colombia has held multiple elections while parts of its territory were under the influence or control of guerrilla groups like the FARC and paramilitary forces.
Chechnya (2003) Chechnya, a region of Russia, held a constitutional referendum in 2003 while Russian forces were occupying the territory during the Second Chechen War, and separatist fighters still controlled parts of the republic.
Sri Lanka (1989,2000) Sri Lanka held elections while parts of the north and east of the country were under control of the Tamil Tigers (LTTE) during the country's civil war, which lasted until 2009.
Mozambique (1994) Mozambique held its first multiparty elections while some regions were still affected by the remnants of the civil war between RENAMO rebels and the FRELIMO government.
Eritrea (1993) Eritrea held a referendum on independence from Ethiopia while parts of the country were occupied by Ethiopian forces, and armed conflict was ongoing in certain areas.
Northern Ireland (1969 onwards) Elections continued in Northern Ireland during "The Troubles" (19691998), a period of conflict where parts of the territory experienced violence and were under military occupation or heavy security presence by British forces.
Ivory Coast (2010) Ivory Coast held disputed elections in 2010 during which parts of the country were controlled by forces loyal to incumbent President Laurent Gbagbo and those loyal to his opponent Alassane Ouattara, leading to a civil conflict and eventual foreign intervention by UN and French forces.
Western Sahara (ongoing) While Morocco occupies much of Western Sahara, the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic, which claims the territory, has held elections for its government in exile since 1976, with the support of some international communities.
Tibet (1950's) After China's occupation of Tibet in 1950, the Tibetan government-in-exile, led by the Dalai Lama, has held elections in exile. These elections occurred while China maintained control over the region.
South Sudan (2011) South Sudan held its independence referendum in 2011 while parts of the country were affected by conflict, particularly in regions where militias and armed groups were active, even as Sudanese forces withdrew after the vote.
Nagorno-Karabakh (ongoing) Elections have been held in Nagorno-Karabakh, an Armenian-majority region, despite the ongoing conflict with Azerbaijan and the presence of both Armenian and Azerbaijani forces in disputed territories.
Lebanon (2009) In addition to the 1972 and 1992 elections mentioned earlier, the 2009 elections in Lebanon occurred while parts of the country were still experiencing tensions with Hezbollah, and with Syrian influence still present in certain factions.
Donetsk and Luhansk (ongoing) Elections have been held in the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics in Eastern Ukraine, areas controlled by pro-Russian separatists, even as Ukraine claims the territories and conflict with the Ukrainian government continues.
Somalia (2012,2017, 2022) Somalia has held several rounds of elections, though indirect, while large parts of the country were under the control of Al-Shabaab, a militant group, and with the involvement of foreign peacekeeping forces such as AMISOM (now ATMIS).
Chad (1989,1996, 2001) Chad held elections during periods when parts of the country were controlled by rebel groups, and there was involvement from foreign powers, particularly during the conflicts with Libya over the Aouzou Strip.
Ethiopia (2021) Ethiopia held elections while the Tigray region was in open conflict with the federal government. Portions of Tigray were occupied by federal and Eritrean forces during the conflict.
Serbia (1990's) During the breakup of Yugoslavia, Serbia held elections while parts of the territory of former Yugoslavia, including Kosovo, were involved in conflicts and controlled by different factions.
Cambodia (1993) Cambodia held elections under the supervision of the United Nations Transitional Authority in Cambodia (UNTAC) while Khmer Rouge forces controlled parts of the country.
El Salvador (1984) El Salvador held elections while parts of the country were controlled by guerrilla forces during the civil war between the government and the Farabundo Mart National Liberation Front (FMLN).
Greece (1946) Greece held elections in 1946 while parts of the country were under occupation by Axis forces during World War II and shortly before the outbreak of the Greek Civil War.
South Yemen (1967) South Yemen held elections after gaining independence from British rule, even as conflict persisted between rival factions and British forces were still withdrawing from Aden.
Ukraine (2015 local elections) In addition to national elections mentioned earlier, Ukraine held local elections in 2015, excluding territories controlled by pro-Russian separatists in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions.
Hungary (1945) Hungary held parliamentary elections in 1945 while under occupation by the Soviet Red Army at the end of World War II. The Soviet influence eventually led to the establishment of a communist regime.
Angola (1992) Angola held its first multiparty elections while parts of the country were still under control of the rebel group UNITA, leading to the resumption of civil war after the elections.
Libya (2012,2014) Libya held elections following the toppling of Muammar Gaddafi, but the country was still divided between various militias and regions, with foreign intervention from NATO and regional powers.
Burundi (2015) Burundi held elections during a period of political unrest and violence, with opposition groups boycotting the elections and some areas experiencing instability due to rebel activity.
Rwanda (2003) Rwanda held elections following the Rwandan Genocide, even as rebel groups continued to operate in parts of the country and the eastern Democratic Republic of the Congo.
Tunisia (2011) Tunisia held elections shortly after the Arab Spring revolution, while some areas still faced unrest and militant activity.
Yugoslavia (1945) The Federal People's Republic of Yugoslavia held elections while parts of the country were under Allied military control and still recovering from World War II.
Chechnya (1997,2005) In addition to the 2003 referendum mentioned earlier, Chechnya held elections in 1997 and 2005, during periods of ongoing conflict between Russian forces and Chechen separatists.
Algeria (1958) Algeria held elections during the Algerian War of Independence, while French colonial forces occupied much of the country, and the National Liberation Front (FLN) controlled rural areas.
Northern Cyprus (1983, ongoing) The Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, recognized only by Turkey, has held elections since its declaration of independence in 1983, despite the ongoing occupation and international dispute over the territory.
Papua New Guinea (1977) Papua New Guinea held elections while the Bougainville region was in conflict, which eventually escalated into the Bougainville Civil War. Bougainville later held its own referendum on independence in 2019.
Zimbabwe (1980) Zimbabwe (then Rhodesia) held elections during the Lancaster House Agreement period while still under British oversight and with ongoing conflict between the government and guerrilla movements such as ZANU and ZAPU.
Liberia (2005) Liberia held elections in 2005 under the supervision of United Nations peacekeepers, following a civil war that had left parts of the country under the control of rebel factions.
Armenia (1992) Armenia held elections in the early 1990's while involved in the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict with Azerbaijan, and parts of its borders were under military tension.
Czechoslovakia (1946) Czechoslovakia held elections in 1946 while under Soviet influence, with Soviet troops occupying parts of the country following World War II.
Syria (2014,2021) Syria has held elections during its ongoing civil war, with large portions of the country controlled by rebel forces, Kurdish factions, or foreign forces such as Russia and the United States.
[QUOTE=Tiny12;2943684]I should take this back to my Orc handlers but think I can handle it on my own. What's a kinetic war?
You and / or Xpartan asked for an example of a country that conducted elections while a hostile force held part of a country. I came back with several. I offered no opinion on whether Ukraine should or shouldn't hold elections. All you should have done is come back and say it's unconstitutional for elections to be held in Ukraine when its under martial law, instead of doubling down on an unsupportable position.
I do believe elections during war time are a good idea. I'm a pacifist and believe military and political elites sometimes continue wars when the majority of the populace doesn't want to send their young men off to die any longer. Elections are a good way to make the elites accountable. The lines between Russia and Ukraine have moved very little since November of 2022. There's no good reason other than the constitution why it shouldn't have held elections.
As to your post, why is South Korea not a good example of your and Xpartan's latest request, for a country that held elections while at war and while a hostile force held part of its claimed territory?
[/QUOTE]None of those were held while there was a kinetic war (groan) Ask your good friend ChatGPT what a kinetic war is, as opposed to a cold war and or occupation.
You even included the "elections" in Donetsk and Luhansk (groan) Actually these were during a kinetic war, to be accurate. Tell us about these free and fair elections. You can check with your Orc handlers for a full "factsheet".
[QUOTE=BloodRed;2943666]I have never said Russia is a shining example of a democracy, show me where I did. But my comments about the corrupt actor are correct. History will not judge this greedy **** kindly; he took Ukraine down the primrose path after campaigning on a platform for peace.[/QUOTE]Let me draw an analogy. You complain that one parent is scolding his child, all the while you're sucking off his neighbour who kills his own children and any other kid in the neighbourhood, and letting that go without so much as a mention.
The glaring omissions, and total blindness to any actual context in almost every post, makes it laughable when you assert that you are in a debate.
[QUOTE=VinDici;2943704]None of those were held while there was a kinetic war (groan) Ask your good friend ChatGPT what a kinetic war is, as opposed to a cold war and or occupation.
You even included the "elections" in Donetsk and Luhansk (groan) Actually these were during a kinetic war, to be accurate. Tell us about these free and fair elections. You can check with your Orc handlers for a full "factsheet".[/QUOTE]I found it! All I had to do was ask ChatGPT for VinDici's definition of a kinetic war! Here it is!
"A kinetic war is a euphemism for military action involving active warfare, including lethal force, exclusively conducted within the pre-2014 boundaries of Ukraine or within 100 kilometers of those boundaries. Currently any military action occurring out of that area is not a kinetic war. However the definition may be changed at the sole discretion of VinDici in any manner he chooses. ".
I'll pass that on to my Handlers in case this issue comes up again.
[QUOTE=Tiny12;2943851]I found it! All I had to do was ask ChatGPT for VinDici's definition of a kinetic war! Here it is!
"A kinetic war is a euphemism for military action involving active warfare, including lethal force, exclusively conducted within the pre-2014 boundaries of Ukraine or within 100 kilometers of those boundaries. Currently any military action occurring out of that area is not a kinetic war. However the definition may be changed at the sole discretion of VinDici in any manner he chooses. ".
I'll pass that on to my Handlers in case this issue comes up again.[/QUOTE]Yes, the heroic pacifist that thinks peace should come from UA conceding everything, but won't consider the Orcs leaving Ukrainian territory as a solution.
[QUOTE=VinDici;2943705]Let me draw an analogy. You complain that one parent is scolding his child, all the while you're sucking off his neighbour who kills his own children and any other kid in the neighbourhood, and letting that go without so much as a mention.
The glaring omissions, and total blindness to any actual context in almost every post, makes it laughable when you assert that you are in a debate.[/QUOTE]I have condemned war crimes by both sides.
[QUOTE=BloodRed;2943881]I have condemned war crimes by both sides.[/QUOTE]You rabidly comment on anything and everything UA, whilst ignoring or handwaving or deflecting (What about the US? What about what the EU is doing? Etc) the much worse and egregious actions of the Orcs. In addition you slavishly support he subjugation of a sovereign nation by a brutal dictatorship.
It's not possible to take you seriously, since there is no sensible discussion to be had when your position is completely unhinged and removed from the realities of the conflict.
[QUOTE=VinDici;2943898]You rabidly comment on anything and everything UA, whilst ignoring or handwaving or deflecting (What about the US? What about what the EU is doing? Etc) the much worse and egregious actions of the Orcs. In addition you slavishly support he subjugation of a sovereign nation by a brutal dictatorship.
It's not possible to take you seriously, since there is no sensible discussion to be had when your position is completely unhinged and removed from the realities of the conflict.[/QUOTE]I have made it crystal clear that I do not have a horse in this race. I have no love for Ukraine or Russia in that regard. I actually find both Ukrainians and Russians as cold.
I have stated many times that I understand why this conflict happened, when it started and how it started and who provoked it and made sure it happened. I despise NATO for what they have done (in Iraq, Yugoslavia, Yemen, Syria, Libya and now Ukraine) and are doing, it is an offensive hegemonic military war machine that wants to keep adding members so it can feed the you. S military industrial complex, because once a country joins NATO, its military has to conform to NATO standards. They knew inviting Ukraine to join NATO would trigger a major war but they did so anyway because they don't give a shit about the Ukrainian people, they are cannon fodder. It is about weaking Russia, they don't care that entire generations in Ukraine have been wiped out.
So yes, because of all these reasons, I am backing Russia, not because I have any love for Russia or Russians. I have also clearly said that I have nothing but respect and the utmost sympathy for ORDINARY Ukrainians who are suffering the most. Their 'leadership' is garbage. Zelensky is a corrupt liar who is reading from a script and pocketing billions. He is a curse for the Ukrainian people, just like NATO is. You will see how history judges this clown when it is written.
And this is a war that should NEVER EVER have happened, but NATO made sure it happened. You may not agree with what Russia did. Yes, it illegally invaded an independent country, no doubt about it. But what you need to understand is that Russia, much like the United States, is a great power. Great powers have red lines and they act when they are crossed or are about to get crossed. Kennedy would not tolerate Soviet missiles in Cuba. That was an American red line. Russia made it crystal clear that they would not tolerate NATO and NATO weapons in Ukraine. Read the famous memo from Bill Burns where he clearly states that Russia will not tolerate Ukraine in NATO from years ago.
[QUOTE=VinDici;2943874]Yes, the heroic pacifist that thinks peace should come from UA conceding everything, but won't consider the Orcs leaving Ukrainian territory as a solution.[/QUOTE]You will soon realize that Ukraine will indeed have to come to grips will reality and concede territory in exchange for peace. Of course they won't want to, but that is the reality.
And if Ukraine does not sign a peace deal by ceding territory, Russia is just going to grab more territory and keep what it has already captured and kill more and more AFU soldiers until Ukraine has had enough and can't keep fighting. Or until there is a collapse of AFU. In both those scenarios, you will end up with a frozen conflict similar to the 2 Koreas. Russia will keep the territory they have annexed and will very likely grab more and annex more. That in my opinion is the most likely outcome IMHO. So the sooner Ukraine negotiates, the better it will be for them.
In 2021, the peace terms before the war were very generous.
In Istanbul 2022 it was just the Donbas + Crimea + neutrality that was demanded.
Now it's the 4 new territories. It is Istanbul PLUS.
So it is in Ukraine's interest to sue for peace now.
[QUOTE=BloodRed;2944151]...So it is in Ukraine's interest to sue for peace now.[/QUOTE]The recent indictment of Russians accused of covertly funding a Tennessee media company is merely the tip of the iceberg of Russia's disinformation campaign. It's amazing that the Kremlin would spend $10 million on this one endeavor. The "influencers" were paid $400 k per month to recycle FSB propaganda. These efforts filter down even to an obscure forum like this.
My question to the Russian trolls on this forum is, how much are you paid? Are you jealous of the American stooges who were paid $400,000 per month? (Can you use this information to increase your own salary?