Moscow

[QUOTE=Prosal]Indeed. What scares me in a stay in Moscow is that for a thirsty party-goer such as me, there must be a huge gap between the good resolutions for not spending too much money (limiting yourself to the mid-level places, going out only four times a week, never exceeding the 10 mojitos or black russians in one single place, avoiding the "after-hours", ect) and what happens in reality. Too many tempting places to party.

Thanks for the infos anyway. I gonna go in Moscow only if I feel that I can remain "reasonable" there. Which seems unfortunatly virtually impossible. :)[/QUOTE]I think you'll survive... :)

It really depends on "how you roll".

Keys to saving money in my opinion are the following:

1) avoid expensive restaurants. You can't escape a medium to upscale restaurant without spending $70-100, so don't go there unless you have to. Cafes or cheaper places are just as good for dates, in fact you may get more romance value out of a walk to the park or going to a movie than you would at an expensive place.

2) use special offers. As previously mentioned by Latexian2, there are numerous business lunch offers, some of them until 6pm. Good eats for less than $20.

3) use metro. Especially during the day, this is the fastest and cheapest way to travel. At night (after 11-12pm) it is usually better to take a car for various reasons.

4) avoid expensive cocktails. If you like to drink a lot, ordering $10 cocktails adds up fast.

5) once you've made contacts, schedule in some nights in. Moscow girls usually have busy, stressful schedules... and often they are very happy to have a relaxing evening at home with "simple pleasures".

Although things like presents and evenings out do have value and remain an entry ticket to many a girls heart (it gives you credibility according to many) they neither expect nor need to be showered with this kind of monetary affection. Besides, you should be weeding out the ones who like you for whom you are anyway.

I honestly haven't been meeting the "let's spend his money" kind lately. I think that was very 2003-2007 style. Or maybe I am just lucky.

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]I think you'll survive... :)

It really depends on "how you roll".

Keys to saving money in my opinion are the following:

1) avoid expensive restaurants. You can't escape a medium to upscale restaurant without spending $70-100, so don't go there unless you have to. Cafes or cheaper places are just as good for dates, in fact you may get more romance value out of a walk to the park or going to a movie than you would at an expensive place.

2) use special offers. As previously mentioned by Latexian2, there are numerous business lunch offers, some of them until 6pm. Good eats for less than $20.

3) use metro. Especially during the day, this is the fastest and cheapest way to travel. At night (after 11-12pm) it is usually better to take a car for various reasons.

4) avoid expensive cocktails. If you like to drink a lot, ordering $10 cocktails adds up fast.

5) once you've made contacts, schedule in some nights in. Moscow girls usually have busy, stressful schedules... and often they are very happy to have a relaxing evening at home with "simple pleasures".

Although things like presents and evenings out do have value and remain an entry ticket to many a girls heart (it gives you credibility according to many) they neither expect nor need to be showered with this kind of monetary affection. Besides, you should be weeding out the ones who like you for whom you are anyway.

I honestly haven't been meeting the "let's spend his money" kind lately. I think that was very 2003-2007 style. Or maybe I am just lucky.[/QUOTE]
I second the motion on your suggestions Skank. I found that once I developed a affinity for beer and vodka, my bar bill went waaaaaaay down. And as for the girls, I have one regular who was ready to spend as much of my money as I was willing to part with. Fortunately, the "crisis" gave me a great excuse to suggest that the days for that kind of spending was over and if she wanted to continue that lifestyle she was going to have to find someone else to lick her pussy. To my complete surprise, she has changed her taste in cocktails and admitted that vodka with orange juice is not so bad...... and not even "orange fresh".

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]
I honestly haven't been meeting the "let's spend his money" kind lately. I think that was very 2003-2007 style. Or maybe I am just lucky.[/QUOTE]

I invited a chick from Elektrostal out to a restaurant last week (never met her before). She showed up with girlfriend in tow, and I said flatly I only invited one and wasn't paying for her friend. She gut all hussy and said I'm a foreigner and shouldn't care about spending money on them. I called them prostitutes and told them to leave.

I don't mind lavishing some money on chicks now and again, but if a girl pulls that kind of stunt or orders the most expensive item on the menu, it's a huge warning sign.

[QUOTE=Latexian2]I invited a chick from Elektrostal out to a restaurant last week (never met her before). She showed up with girlfriend in tow, and I said flatly I only invited one and wasn't paying for her friend. She gut all hussy and said I'm a foreigner and shouldn't care about spending money on them. I called them prostitutes and told them to leave.

I don't mind lavishing some money on chicks now and again, but if a girl pulls that kind of stunt or orders the most expensive item on the menu, it's a huge warning sign.[/QUOTE]I disagree on this. According to my experience some/many girls if they are not professionals prefer to come in the company of a girlfriend. It gives them a feeling of security, "not being alone". There have been a few cases where they want to just have a good meal and expensive drinks, but 90% of them do it because they are uncertain how to deal with the situation and they want some kind of "mental support" from a girlfriend. Just handle this situation and later that evening. Or the next day. You will be paid back.

This was most probably not some kind of stunt, and you were totally wrong to call them prostitutes. In your handling of the situation you showed no respect and you were rather cheap!

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]IT.. you'd like her. But maybe there was a misunderstanding... by the regulars I mean the regular girlfriends. They aren't P4P or sponsored.... just normal girls.[/QUOTE]

Yeah a real pity :( :( :(

IT

[QUOTE=Explorer69]There have been a few cases where they want to just have a good meal and expensive drinks, but 90% of them do it because they are uncertain how to deal with the situation and they want some kind of "mental support" from a girlfriend....[/QUOTE]

Oh yes, very FEW cases, that's why:

[QUOTE=Latexian2]....She gut all hussy and said I'm a foreigner and shouldn't care about spending money on them...[/QUOTE]

Behave weak means always pay more to get much less.....it is not a problem of money, it is matter of who uses who here ?

They as first lack of respect thinking a foreigner should spend money, money, money....

Second, Latexian2 was more than right and I have the feeling is one of the few who has great success in Moscow without invest a lot of money for nothing, cause it is easy even for a young boy to have tons of girls with much money.....you do not need to be a pick up artist to open the wallet....

And yes, even in west europe normal girl does not need "mental support" to meet with a man, but "weak", "shy" russian girls need.....ohhh yes....

[QUOTE=Explorer69]I disagree on this. According to my experience some/many girls if they are not professionals prefer to come in the company of a girlfriend. It gives them a feeling of security, "not being alone". There have been a few cases where they want to just have a good meal and expensive drinks, but 90% of them do it because they are uncertain how to deal with the situation and they want some kind of "mental support" from a girlfriend. Just handle this situation and later that evening. Or the next day. You will be paid back.

This was most probably not some kind of stunt, and you were totally wrong to call them prostitutes. In your handling of the situation you showed no respect and you were rather cheap![/QUOTE]They said:

".... a foreigner and shouldn't care about spending money on them...."

If a girl say me something like that, I only think that she is a moneysucker, for sure I don't think she need "mental support" from a friend.

Then, if I am tired and nervous because in the same day/days I had similar situations, or telephone calls without answers, or dates with girls on late or dates with girls that didn't come, maybe I could react in the same way.

[QUOTE=Lukasek]And yes, even in west europe normal girl does not need "mental support" to meet with a man, but "weak", "shy" russian girls need.....ohhh yes....[/QUOTE] I don't necessarily agree with you on this one Lukasek. Certainly, a "hardened working girl" does not need moral or mental support in meeting with foreign guys. And that's just the point - When you meet a pro, it's a business transaction plain and simple. When you meet a girl to go out on a "date" under "normal" circumstances there's probably no moral support needed. But I think Explorer69 has a valid point. Not to say that Latexian2 was wrong either but as we explore the "gray area" of looking for love online, there's an element of risk involved on both sides. ESPECIALLY when we are looking for semi-pros who may or may not end up being freebies. (Of course, it's NEVER totally free but you know what I mean). Since we are not mind readers, we don't know exactly WHAT the other party has in mind. For many of these girls, they are near the end of their financial rope. Many are one step away from hanging out in Night Flight or Hot Dogs but somehow hope they can meet a nice guy, have a nice meal, maybe have some sex and then then get a little "something" extra afterward - maybe a gift, maybe cash. In their minds, they are not exactly "hooking" and they don't want to take that next step.

Funny sidebar - I was sitting in Doug and Maty's with a buddy a few years ago when some girls came over and started "negotiating". My friend was pretty toasted and ended up making an unfortunate comment calling his girl a prostitute. She indignantly stood up, grabbed her bag and said, "I am NOT at prostitute; I am an ESCORT!!!!!!!"

I had the same situation as Latexian2 a few years back. My first impulse was to do like Lex and tell them to fuck off. But being the soft touch that I am, I held my tongue and both them both drinks. After about the 30 minutes, the friend went to the ladies room and never came back. I took the other one back to my place and sprayed semen all over her tonsils.

Do whatever feels right. Follow you gut. But don't make a rash decision because you are afraid of being taken advantage of. A little patience sometimes pays off. Of course, sometimes you end up getting fucked over so what the hell do I know?

[QUOTE=Lukasek]And yes, even in west europe normal girl does not need "mental support" to meet with a man, but "weak", "shy" russian girls need.....ohhh yes....[/QUOTE]There is a big difference between different kinds of girls. The "usual" girl in Moscow doesn't need somebody to come with her, but a girl from some smaller city who isnt used to foreigners will.

And to start calling the girls in that report for prostitutes is not to be strong, in my opinion that is weak!

[quote=jake993]i don't necessarily agree with you on this one lukasek. certainly, a "hardened working girl" does not need moral or mental support in meeting with foreign guys. and that's just the point - when you meet a pro, it's a business transaction plain and simple. when you meet a girl to go out on a "date" under "normal" circumstances there's probably no moral support needed. but i think explorer69 has a valid point. not to say that latexian2 was wrong either but as we explore the "gray area" of looking for love online, there's an element of risk involved on both sides. especially when we are looking for semi-pros who may or may not end up being freebies. (of course, it's never totally free but you know what i mean). since we are not mind readers, we don't know exactly what the other party has in mind. for many of these girls, they are near the end of their financial rope. many are one step away from hanging out in night flight or hot dogs but somehow hope they can meet a nice guy, have a nice meal, maybe have some sex and then then get a little "something" extra afterward - maybe a gift, maybe cash. in their minds, they are not exactly "hooking" and they don't want to take that next step.

i had the same situation as latexian2 a few years back. my first impulse was to do like lex and tell them to fuck off. but being the soft touch that i am, i held my tongue and both them both drinks. after about the 30 minutes, the friend went to the ladies room and never came back. i took the other one back to my place and sprayed semen all over her tonsils.

do whatever feels right. follow you gut. but don't make a rash decision because you are afraid of being taken advantage of. a little patience sometimes pays off. of course, sometimes you end up getting fucked over so what the hell do i know?[/quote]i absolutely agree on this, wise words.

please remember that the girls don't know what guy is sitting there waiting for them, he may be a serial killer or a serial [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord126][CodeWord126][/url]. it is not so stupid to bring along a girlfriend, she will feel more secure even in a restaurant, and she gets a second opinion whether the guy seems ok. i have had this with 2 girls arriving, and then one girl left, the other one spent the night with me. i also had planned meeting with 1 girl, but 2 girls arrived and they ended up in my bed together. but of course i also had two girls who ate and drank the most expensive on the menu - and then left .....!

but to immediately dismiss them and to call the girls prostitutes because they are 2 together is not correct!

[QUOTE=Jake993]Funny sidebar - I was sitting in Doug and Maty's with a buddy a few years ago when some girls came over and started "negotiating". My friend was pretty toasted and ended up making an unfortunate comment calling his girl a prostitute. She indignantly stood up, grabbed her bag and said, "I am NOT at prostitute; I am an ESCORT!!!!!!!"

I had the same situation as Latexian2 a few years back. My first impulse was to do like Lex and tell them to fuck off. But being the soft touch that I am, I held my tongue and both them both drinks. After about the 30 minutes, the friend went to the ladies room and never came back. I took the other one back to my place and sprayed semen all over her tonsils.

Do whatever feels right. Follow you gut. But don't make a rash decision because you are afraid of being taken advantage of. A little patience sometimes pays off. Of course, sometimes you end up getting fucked over so what the hell do I know?[/QUOTE]Oh yeah!

Be nice to a girl and you might get the best out of her, whatever she is, prostitute, escort, secretary or anything else.

If you treat her as a prostitute, she will act as a prostitute. But if you treat her nice, even the most professional prostitute might give you a lot more that what you were expecting. It might not work, but if you don't try it you will never get it! And sure it does work more times than it does not work!

This is true everywhere in the world, and it seems to be even much more true in Russia.

To be nice to a girl the first time you see her, sometimes you have to invest money. But first, if you just pay the bill and don't pay good attention to her, it will not work, and second, most of the times you don't need to spend much money, she will feel pleased that you take a risk on her and she will not at all think about the risk being small (a man would think differently). Note that at that point, if she tells you that you are not paying enough, immediately walk away!

So in those situations, I don't count the money I spend. As long as it is little.

Back to Moscow report, I am not aware of a place in the world where the ROI is better

ROI = Return On Investment

Hi Jake993,

just to make clear, I never call a pro, prostitute, honestly I believe in free choice, everybody does what he wants with his own life, but this does not mean, I let somebody to take me for a fool, no matter if she is sexy LOL

What I meant is, that is a bullshit that a woman come with another one to have mental support, no matter if they are pro or hookers, escorts or students one step away from NF.

WE do not need to be mind readers to understand that they come in two, only when they see you as ATM, cause if one is really and seriously interested in you, she comes alone for sure, cause what the kind of conversation you can have in 3 ? And even more she is afraid about what you can think of her, neither able to come alone....

Russian are not weak or shy, to need to come in two and how they could be afraid as russian girl in russian city where everybody speak russian to meet with a foreigner that, often, as we saw, even after 60 times speak almost zero russian ??? LOL The only one who should be afraid here is the man.....

2 of 3 women we dated me and my wingman in Odessa at Arcadia arrived in 2 and it was the 2006....

The only one who needs mental support is a monger living ten thousands miles away and that is all alone in a city of almost 15 million inhabitants speaking zero language walking in the night looking for pussy.....that's the only person that risks in this sort of meeting....

Even more, if they are genuine girls, they come alone, even more if they want to meet a nice guy, to fall in love and to start a relationship.

Last .... how many russian girls who has date with a russian man do you think go together "mental support" ? And I think I said it all......IMHO.

I will be in Moscow soon and will stay in Hotel Maritim Renessaince.

While looking for some girl I could meet there, I have been mailing hundreds of girls at Mamba, but it appears there are no girls that speak english. All I receive is Russian telefone numbers and the prices as resonse. I assume it is some pimp who is actually answering the mails. The girls are probably on work.

Anyways, I also stepped over an escort page. The girls there look really great! Could this be? Does anybody have experience with girls from that escort?

Would be happy to receive your comments on this, or any recommendation for a model like busty girl I could hook up with.

[url]http://www.exclusivegirls.ru/enter.php[/url]

Sometimes bringing along a girlfriend for moral support is legitimate IMO, particularly on a first date with a stranger. Girls have security issues. I've been on a few of these and they always went well, in fact sometimes having a third person there is good for conversation. I don't think it is inherently a matter of wanting to get a free meal at the expense of a foreigner.

Some girls do just want to use men however, particularly in places where foreign men are known to be looking for easy women... i.e. Ukraine. :)

If that happens I think it is pretty easy to recognize and that is when you kick the girl to the curb. It's riduculous behavior on their part.

[QUOTE=Lukasek]What I meant is, that is a bullshit that a woman come with another one to have mental support, no matter if they are pro or hookers, escorts or students one step away from NF.

WE do not need to be mind readers to understand that they come in two, only when they see you as ATM, cause if one is really and seriously interested in you, she comes alone for sure, cause what the kind of conversation you can have in 3? And even more she is afraid about what you can think of her, neither able to come alone.

Russian are not weak or shy, to need to come in two and how they could be afraid as Russian girl in Russian city where everybody speak Russian to meet with a foreigner that, often, as we saw, even after 60 times speak almost zero Russian? LOL The only one who should be afraid here is the man.

The only one who needs mental support is a monger living ten thousands miles away and that is all alone in a city of almost 15 million inhabitants speaking zero language walking in the night looking for pussy. That's the only person that risks in this sort of meeting.

Even more, if they are genuine girls, they come alone, even more if they want to meet a nice guy, to fall in love and to start a relationship.

Last. How many Russian girls who has date with a Russian man do you think go together "mental support"? And I think I said it all. IMHO.[/QUOTE]Not much ability to look out from your own corner. There is a big world out there with many different kinds of people.