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[QUOTE=Marrow;1153126](Who understood where in the hell are the places Greenbud wrote, make me a whistle) ,[/QUOTE]You're a retard! You are clueless on what's written on the post.
[QUOTE=Marrow;1153126]I'm done here. This forum doesn't have any rule.[/QUOTE]The last time you left after the staff erased most of your posts, you said you wouldn't be back. But you came back. I hope this time you mean it. Good riddance. This forum doesn't need fakes.
[QUOTE=GreenBud; 1153172]You're a retard! You are clueless on what's written on the post.
The last time you left after the staff erased most of your posts, you said you wouldn't be back. But you came back. I hope this time you mean it. Good riddance. This forum doesn't need fakes. [/QUOTE]Opposite, my pathetic troll. I know this places much better than you and your "few years ago" knowledge. And they are exactly what I wrote. Rip off places for pathetic BJ, rarely a quickie with pathetic performance (when luckly LOL). God, you and your romantic boat trip. But hey, wait, I forgot your business. With a PM, things will change surely. I really hope this places are not the "smart" kind of places you seems to love.
P. S. Some other people here is still wondering why someone like you who travel in Cambodia 1 week per year, spend so much time writing here.
I really look forward on your next trip to Cambodia (expecially some "friends") *grins*
This is the last post, don't worry! I understand! Business is business!
Cheers!
Marrow.
[QUOTE=GreenBud;1153172]This forum doesn't need fakes.[/QUOTE]This is the most funny thing you ever wrote, I admit haha.
[QUOTE=GreenBud;1153046]1) Beauty Salons / Barber Shops: On Kampuchea Krom near the Central Market, there's that street with many upscale Beauty Salons (good places to get a $2 haircut) ; they offer haircuts and the works (ear cleaning, nails, massages etc). I was told that in some of the places, the girl will offer extras during the massage (the massage is done in the back). Check out International or the place next to it?[/QUOTE]I checked out International. Nice haircut for $2 but I ended up upgrading to the ear cleaning, nails and etc $6 + $1 tip. No massage though, I asked them in Chinese and they said they don't do it. Maybe the one next door does. Across the street (north side) , there is one salon with a sign that says beauty salon and massage but that place was closed. Don't know if it's open at night or if it is just out of business.
If anyone has more info would like to hear.
As for what folks have said about st. 70. I went into two of those cheap massage places. 5,000 Rhiel and etc 10, 000 Rhiel. I went in thinking how bad could it be. I went in the room, look around and said thank you and walked out. They didn't stop me. They were actually kinda surprised I was there to begin with.
[QUOTE=Sabretongue; 1153154]Believe me, Marrow, I neither want nor need you to post the contact details of the girls here. I am quite capable of finding my own, and it would seriously surprise me if I don't already know the girls you are talking about anyway. Phnom Penh is a small town, and people have to try hard NOT to know everything about other people's business. The mongering scene is even smaller. And this isn't a boast or a claim to be a sexual god. But I can't set foot in the normal pickup places without knowing at least maybe 1/3 of the girls there at any one time. This is simply because I have lived in PP for a while, am always looking for girls, and the girls tend to get around, not because they think I'm a superstud or some other equally ridiculous reason.
Frankly, and I am not trying to flame you or whatever here, you write like someone with a fragile ego, and who uses the mongering experience to prop it up. The girls tend to recognise this also, and will use it to control a punter. If she thinks you're susceptible to flattery, she'll use it to her advantage. It's easy to get into a kind of feedback loop this way, if you allow yourself to believe your own, and the girls' BS. The girls are working, mate. They have lots of other customers, and just because they will * about their ex-bf to you, or talk about some other personal details, doesn't mean that they're enamoured with you or that you're the player of the year. They might even be having a fun time around you, they might even enjoy the sex, but don't let it get to your head.
Also, you strike me as a little inconsistent in your storytelling. First you ask to take pics of the girls, and they give you a strong refusal, and then upon being pressed about the issue, you say it's a mutual decision, with you acting out of the goodness of your heart and concern for the well-being of the girls. Which is it mate? If you had any moral qualms about it you wouldn't have even tried to take any pics, and you clearly did ask because you say you did. Now, finally when many have called you out on your claims, instead of backing them up you back down, which is a fairly good sign that someone was lying to start with.
I don't doubt you did what you say you did, because there is nothing remarkable about it, but I seriously doubt that the girls were anything special or that they think you're a love god as you seem to believe, or that you're anything except another punter to them. But if you, for some reason, need to tell yourself differently, then go ahead. Just don't be surprised if others tend not to accept it at face value. [/QUOTE]Your post, surely deserve an answer.
About first part of your post about you know the girls I met, well, I'm sure of it. You're living in PP, and the girls I was talking about, works on popular places. So yes, you surely know them or saw them multiple times. And maybe fucked too.
About feelings, I agree and I know perfectly, they are pro liars, who just play the game. But talking about the orgy GF, she is a newbie for real, who worked all her life as a cook. As a proof, I can add more details.
Basically, she start to work 1 week before our first meeting in Walkabout. She know all the girls working, just because her ex boyfriend was a customer of this places. When they start their relationship, obiouvsly on nighttime they was having some fun, going to dance or drink a beer. She is bisexual, so obiouvsly happy to go into places full of hotties, and if possible find a good one for a 3some with her ex boyfriend. Sadly, he was so asshole to not use this gift, and instead of enjoy a 3some, he was always answering "I don't have power for it". Hard to believe, till when I saw him. An old man, maybe 55- 60 years. Fit her story about power, hehe. 30 minutes after our first meeting, I saw him, drinking into Walkabout, she told me was him. He go there every day, so he can follow her ex gf and what she do. Taking care if her customer is not an asshole or a pervert. Their bond and trust is strong, I saw, and felt it. I saw him on our second meeting too, again in walkabout, then in darkness, when I was hanging around with 3 girls. She explained him all about me and what we do. When I saw him less suspicious about me, handshake and a smile was his permission to have fun with her. It was a 2 year relationship, he gave her a lot of help, and was a relationship based on love. He tried to give her 25 bucks for a medical visit, she refused, angry,"I don't need anymore your help. If I need money for the hospital, I can find a customer for 25$". Exactly the amount I gave her after our 3some. I didn't pay a service, she just needed them for the hospital. On our second meeting, when she organized a 4some, I didn't pay her at all. I just paid our toys. Basically our 3 days relationship was (I suppose cannot be different) just an open couple relationship, with orgies, swinger, and any other sex game possible. A sex based relationship. Clear for both. No love involved for both, more over than a bond, a pact between a man and a woman who clearly understood their "role" inside a relationship. She was going to join me on the plane, when I was leaving Cambodia, and have some sex around with new girls of other nationalities. I refused, just because too much busy this month. This doesn't means she don't want to join me, later. She tried to show me multiple places where I could rent a house and have some fun with her in PP. Fun, not a service. But I don't want to live again in PP, oh please. By the way, he only girl I would pay, is our toy. As I said, she's a normal girl. She didn't even try to take any advantage, or extras. Nor steal a cent, as much I was sleeping with her into her house, after our 4some.
That's all.
And I'm sure you know me enough, Sabre, reading my posts. I'm surely a great pro monger, handsome blah blah, but same time not a heartless motherfucker.
Reason because either a working girl hope to be "the one" for me, and stop this work, be a wife, have a family.
As much I agree with you. Sadly, most of them "play the game", a life of lies. Reason because I will never marry a prostitute. They are all the same, everywhere in the world. Just a newbie. 18 years, maybe, could be different. Sometimes. Rarely.
Abour pictures, I invite you to read again my post!
The girl I will never post any picture, is the pregnant girl. The anal sub. Obiouvs reason.
Instead, I was trying to take some pictures of our 3some and 4some. But in both cases, our toys start to complain when I took the camera, yelling me to put it back immediately. As much, like someone wrote few post ago, I tried to put it as a naughty game, they start to talk about it, one of them start to mention internet and privacy and police troubles, other girls got scared, so my desire was fucked up.
Nothing special, my post, nor different from what I was doing every day in PP. Same fun a lot of friends is having, actually, on daily basis.
Obiouvsly, all my friends are like me. Youngish men, handsome, quite sexy body, horny dogs but gentlemen.
Gentleman, makes a huge difference, dealing with girls, prostitutes or not.
This post is a clear proof of what makes a huge difference, between the typical old man who hang around Walkabout, Martini, Hod, and a model-like customer. Expecially if not married.
I hope this post will shut the mouth of some flamers. Useless hope.
Farewell.
Marrow
[QUOTE=Marrow; 1153569]Your post, surely deserve an answer.
About first part of your post about you know the girls I met, well, I'm sure of it. You're living in PP, and the girls I was talking about, works on popular places. So yes, you surely know them or saw them multiple times. And maybe fucked too.
About feelings, I agree and I know perfectly, they are pro liars, who just play the game. But talking about the orgy GF, she is a newbie for real, who worked all her life as a cook. As a proof, I can add more details.
Basically, she start to work 1 week before our first meeting in Walkabout. She know all the girls working, just because her ex boyfriend was a customer of this places. When they start their relationship, obiouvsly on nighttime they was having some fun, going to dance or drink a beer. She is bisexual, so obiouvsly happy to go into places full of hotties, and if possible find a good one for a 3some with her ex boyfriend. Sadly, he was so asshole to not use this gift, and instead of enjoy a 3some, he was always answering "I don't have power for it". Hard to believe, till when I saw him. An old man, maybe 55- 60 years. Fit her story about power, hehe. 30 minutes after our first meeting, I saw him, drinking into Walkabout, she told me was him. He go there every day, so he can follow her ex gf and what she do. Taking care if her customer is not an asshole or a pervert. Their bond and trust is strong, I saw, and felt it. I saw him on our second meeting too, again in walkabout, then in darkness, when I was hanging around with 3 girls. She explained him all about me and what we do. When I saw him less suspicious about me, handshake and a smile was his permission to have fun with her. It was a 2 year relationship, he gave her a lot of help, and was a relationship based on love. He tried to give her 25 bucks for a medical visit, she refused, angry,"I don't need anymore your help. If I need money for the hospital, I can find a customer for 25$". Exactly the amount I gave her after our 3some. I didn't pay a service, she just needed them for the hospital. On our second meeting, when she organized a 4some, I didn't pay her at all. I just paid our toys. Basically our 3 days relationship was (I suppose cannot be different) just an open couple relationship, with orgies, swinger, and any other sex game possible. A sex based relationship. Clear for both. No love involved for both, more over than a bond, a pact between a man and a woman who clearly understood their "role" inside a relationship. She was going to join me on the plane, when I was leaving Cambodia, and have some sex around with new girls of other nationalities. I refused, just because too much busy this month. This doesn't means she don't want to join me, later. She tried to show me multiple places where I could rent a house and have some fun with her in PP. Fun, not a service. But I don't want to live again in PP, oh please. By the way, he only girl I would pay, is our toy. As I said, she's a normal girl. She didn't even try to take any advantage, or extras. Nor steal a cent, as much I was sleeping with her into her house, after our 4some.
That's all.
And I'm sure you know me enough, Sabre, reading my posts. I'm surely a great pro monger, handsome blah blah, but same time not a heartless motherfucker.
Reason because either a working girl hope to be "the one" for me, and stop this work, be a wife, have a family.
As much I agree with you. Sadly, most of them "play the game", a life of lies. Reason because I will never marry a prostitute. They are all the same, everywhere in the world. Just a newbie. 18 years, maybe, could be different. Sometimes. Rarely.
Abour pictures, I invite you to read again my post!
The girl I will never post any picture, is the pregnant girl. The anal sub. Obiouvs reason.
Instead, I was trying to take some pictures of our 3some and 4some. But in both cases, our toys start to complain when I took the camera, yelling me to put it back immediately. As much, like someone wrote few post ago, I tried to put it as a naughty game, they start to talk about it, one of them start to mention internet and privacy and police troubles, other girls got scared, so my desire was fucked up.
Nothing special, my post, nor different from what I was doing every day in PP. Same fun a lot of friends is having, actually, on daily basis.
Obiouvsly, all my friends are like me. Youngish men, handsome, quite sexy body, horny dogs but gentlemen.
Gentleman, makes a huge difference, dealing with girls, prostitutes or not.
This post is a clear proof of what makes a huge difference, between the typical old man who hang around Walkabout, Martini, Hod, and a model-like customer. Expecially if not married.
I hope this post will shut the mouth of some flamers. Useless hope.
Farewell.
Marrow[/QUOTE]Now this seems like honest writing at last.
Oh dear, this forum has really gone downhill lately with all the shit flung around.
I have been in the bars a lot lately and I have to say that most of the girls are not liars but simple country girls trying to survive.
They nearly all want marriage and kids, thats all.
If one can speak khmer then the girls are fine, most are not greedy or grasping and being typically khmer are very conservative about sex.
Of course there are many 5000 or 8000 riel places but you get what you pay for, if you are allowed in the door.
There are viet coffee shops near the port where there are blow jobs for $5 still, but I wouldn't go there.
I have recently met a nice little girl at the WA who is rarely there and stays at home, full service with a smile, exceptional service in fact.
I have met a bar girl who is unusually beautiful and clever but is very choosy, she could have wrapped me around her little finger but never lied and didn't want my money.
Last night I went to sizzlers for the first time in over a year, only a few girls there early but couple of sweeties-I will be back later tonight.
Sixty nine bar has consistent lovelies but the young beautiful ones are hard as nails, I may try 104 tonight and top ten.
Could we have more bar reviews here and less sniping, its not the room for an argument-is it?
[QUOTE=Phil Istine; 1154385]Oh dear, this forum has really gone downhill lately with all the shit flung around.
I have been in the bars a lot lately and I have to say that most of the girls are not liars but simple country girls trying to survive.
They nearly all want marriage and kids, thats all.
If one can speak khmer then the girls are fine, most are not greedy or grasping and being typically khmer are very conservative about sex.
Of course there are many 5000 or 8000 riel places but you get what you pay for, if you are allowed in the door.
There are viet coffee shops near the port where there are blow jobs for $5 still, but I wouldn't go there.
I have recently met a nice little girl at the WA who is rarely there and stays at home, full service with a smile, exceptional service in fact.
I have met a bar girl who is unusually beautiful and clever but is very choosy, she could have wrapped me around her little finger but never lied and didn't want my money.
Last night I went to sizzlers for the first time in over a year, only a few girls there early but couple of sweeties-I will be back later tonight.
Sixty nine bar has consistent lovelies but the young beautiful ones are hard as nails, I may try 104 tonight and top ten.
Could we have more bar reviews here and less sniping, its not the room for an argument-is it? [/QUOTE]I must admit Cambodian ladys have change a lot now, even the vietnamese, but theres still good mongering to be had in cambs.
[QUOTE=Somewhere15; 1101919]The place is crab and some of the girls their also but if you wait and have the time from time till time you can find some pearls into this place as well.
Was there for the first time in August and had some nice hours late afternoon, a lot of fun playing pool and took also some young (20ish) girls too my hotel for the other fun part.
Some weeks ago I visited again, downstairs overloaded with people (in my view more long time stayers / expat people than tourist like me) and a large popularity of girls (more older than the youngsters that I saw in August). Did, over 3 days not found what I like to take out. Last week I was again in PP and to WA. More or less the same as last time.
On a certain evening (late, after 12 midnight) I played some round of pool with girls upstairs and on a certain moment I was alone on the balcony drinking and smoking. A 25+ girl, max 40 kilo approached me and asked if I would like to take her out. My spontaneous reaction: first see if you can win 3 rounds of pool from me and then you get your price!
Not sure (influenced by alcohol) if she or I won but I took her to my hotel (hotellandscape. Com – on the riverside). Upfront we discussed the price (US $20 for short time and if I wanted to take pics she wanted $10 extra).
Had some rounds of fun with her and kicked her out after around 1, 5 hours, took many pictures but on a certain moment she said 'pictures only for you not for the internet', well that is what I have too respect for that reason only some pics where you can't recognize here).[/QUOTE]Hi somwehere. Was she a vietnam girl? She looks familiar to a hottie I met there in December as well. Any more pics that you can share. Cheers
Hi guys, firstly thank you for all the infos you have posted here, it was very useful for me to learn more about the P4P scene here in Phnom Penh. I just settled here for my job 2 months ago and will probably stay few years. I used to live in China and Malaysia before and enjoyed the massage parlor and local brothel action there. However, I have difficulties finding such local action in Phnom Penh. My khmer is not very elaborate right now but okay to understand and talk a little with the girls.
Firstly, I noticed you guys mentioned the brothels along Sisowath, next to the Japanese Bridge. I went there last week, stopped by one of the houses with girls in front. All the houses had signs reading (in khmer only but one of the few things I've learned to read so far)"Massage 5000R". One girl (very average looking) took me to a back room and started massaging me. After few minutes she told me I could fuck her for 15$. After bargaining (knowing the prices you guys mentionned on the thread) , went down to 25. 000R. But she told me we couldn't fuck there and we had to go to a very close place with my moto. Then, things turned weird. She started making phone calls and told me a man would come and pick us up and take us to his house where I could fuck her. She said I could leave my moto in front of the brothel along Sisowath and only had to give 5000R to the guy for taking us to his place. I figured out this was strange and fearing being stolen (especially for the moto) , I refused and left. The next day, I went to another place next to the previous one where again they advertise Massage 5000R in khmer. This time, the girl massaged me and when asking her if she could do something with my cock she answered "ot baan tee" like she could not do such things here. So I figured maybe I had mistakenly went to a wrong place (maybe a local massage parlor and not a brothel). Thus, could you guys tell me how it works in these brothels near the Bridge? Do you fuck them inside the house or need to go out like she told me? Are these house advertising Massages or are these other places (massage parlors) having nothing to do with the real brothels? Thanks to your infos, I will be able to go back there and give you a full report.
Moreover, I noticed you guys don't talk to much about Tuol Kork on the thread. I drive there often and noticed at night many girls standing along Street 273 waving at the motos. Most of them are ugly but some are fuckable. I haven't seen much going on on Street 70 actually. Many restaurants but not many girls from what I've seen. Most of the doable firls stand along St. 273, right before the perpendicular street 608 when you drive from the Antenna to the Chroy Changvar circle. There are each time 5 to 10 girls there but never had the courage to stop. The area is dark, there aren't many people around except young guys hanging out (and being creepy). Since I don't see houses around, I guess you need to take them to guesthouses to fuck them. However, I heard about the infamous Tuol Kork brothels many times but never managed to see any. Are there located on Street 273 or Street 70 themselves or are there in perpendicular streets (such as Streets 608 or 80)? Do you think it is self to park the moto there or will some guys rob it while I'm fucking the girl? Again, if you can help me on that, I will gladly go there soon to report.
Finally, I saw you talked of Paris Hotel in the thread. I've been there few times. It's safe and clean but not very good and pricy. The massage center is on the 2nd floor, opened afternoons and evening until 11pm. They have a fishbowl arrangement with from 15 to 30 girls depending on the days. The massage is $5 / hour and then the girl will ask you $20 to fuck her. They don't want to bargain and know how to play with your cock in order to force you to accept their prices but I managed to go down to $15 once. Maybe you guys will be better trained in hardcore bargaining. However, it's overpriced knowing she will refuse BJ and just open her legs and wait for you to finish. The customers are mostly rich locals or Asian tourists (Chinese, Korean) so very few barangs and almost no english skills. Not the best place but good if you look for discreet and safe fucking.
[QUOTE=Primerib;1153375]I went into two of those cheap massage places. 5,000 Rhiel and etc 10, 000 Rhiel. I went in thinking how bad could it be. I went in the room, look around and said thank you and walked out.[/QUOTE]You're more adventurous than me; I haven't been inside to any of the local massage places.
[QUOTE=YouPornFan; 1156187]Firstly, I noticed you guys mentioned the brothels along Sisowath, next to the Japanese Bridge. I went there last week, stopped by one of the houses with girls in front. All the houses had signs reading (in khmer only but one of the few things I've learned to read so far)"Massage 5000R".
Then, things turned weird.
So I figured maybe I had mistakenly went to a wrong place (maybe a local massage parlor and not a brothel). Thus, could you guys tell me how it works in these brothels near the Bridge? Do you fuck them inside the house or need to go out like she told me? Are these house advertising Massages or are these other places (massage parlors) having nothing to do with the real brothels? Thanks to your infos, I will be able to go back there and give you a full report. [/QUOTE]It seems you went to the wrong place. The brothels will not have signs that says "Massage". If you go south couple of blocks from the local massage places along the riverside, you will see houses (the bottom unit) with ugly girls out in front. I think it's obvious during the daytime.
I've only been to one of the houses; it had rooms in the back and upstairs. A few years ago, there was a "diamond in the rough" (extremely rare). It was a young pretty skinny Vietnamese girl (she usually had a red dress on). Do any of you guys remember her? I haven't seen her around; she was very good in all aspects.
[QUOTE=YouPornFan;1156187]I used to live in China and Malaysia before and enjoyed the massage parlor and local brothel action there. However, I have difficulties finding such local action in Phnom Penh.[/QUOTE]Have you tried St 63? It's better than the brothels below the Japanese Bridge.
[QUOTE=YouPornFan; 1156187]Moreover, I noticed you guys don't talk to much about Tuol Kork on the thread. I drive there often and noticed at night many girls standing along Street 273 waving at the motos. Most of them are ugly but some are fuckable.
The area is dark, there aren't many people around except young guys hanging out (and being creepy).
However, I heard about the infamous Tuol Kork brothels many times but never managed to see any. Are there located on Street 273 or Street 70 themselves or are there in perpendicular streets (such as Streets 608 or 80)? Do you think it is self to park the moto there or will some guys rob it while I'm fucking the girl? Again, if you can help me on that, I will gladly go there soon to report. [/QUOTE]Never been to Tuol Kork during the night time; good info on the SWs. As always, one must be very careful with SWs.
Several years ago, Tuol Kork was infamous as a brothel area for locals that was dangerous. Now things aren't as dangerous anymore in Phnom Penh, but I still will be careful in dark areas with creepy locals.
The brothels that were open in the main street are not there anymore. That area is being developed. There might be stuff that is not on the main drag. You probably can hire a transport driver to take you to those places.
But I would recommend you spend a few bucks more and go to St 63, or spend $10-$15 more and go to Martinis.
[QUOTE=GreenBud; 1156628]Have you tried St 63? It's better than the brothels below the Japanese Bridge.
But I would recommend you spend a few bucks more and go to St 63, or spend $10-$15 more and go to Martinis. [/QUOTE]Thank you very much GreenBud for the advice. I will surely follow it and try to go on Street 63. I went there few times but actually didn't notice the brothels. From what I've read here on the forum, barangs are not very welcomed there anymore and I guess that's maybe why noone tried to get me to enter in one of the houses there last time I was walking by. I will however try again very soon although I'll be extra careful with the robbery issues. Just one question: what are the operating hours of these St. 63 brothels?
[QUOTE=YouPornFan;1156703]Thank you very much GreenBud for the advice. I will surely follow it and try to go on Street 63. I went there few times but actually didn't notice the brothels. From what I've read here on the forum, barangs are not very welcomed there anymore and I guess that's maybe why noone tried to get me to enter in one of the houses there last time I was walking by. I will however try again very soon although I'll be extra careful with the robbery issues. Just one question: what are the operating hours of these St. 63 brothels?[/QUOTE]Recent posts suggest that St 63 is open and accepting barangs.
I don't remember the exact numbers, but this poster wrote down the location of St 63:
[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?937-Phnom-Penh&p=1150632&viewfull=1#post1150632[/url]
Not sure of the operating hours; I've only been there a few times during primetime (in the evening).
To find out the locations of any area, I would suggest you hire a moto-dope (or a tuk tuk) for couple of hours. Make him drive around and show you all the brothels.
If you live there, it probably would be a good idea to know some trusted local drivers (hard to find though, but if they know they can't rip you off, they will treat you decently).
I think that the massage places opposite the port do say massage 500 riel and I think that you do fuck the girls on site.
A tuk tuk has told me that the next street south has viet coffee shops with viet girls but one must know them to get any action.
[QUOTE=GreenBud; 1156817]Recent posts suggest that St 63 is open and accepting barangs.
I don't remember the exact numbers, but this poster wrote down the location of St 63:
[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?937-Phnom-Penh&p=1150632&viewfull=1#post1150632[/url]
Not sure of the operating hours; I've only been there a few times during primetime (in the evening).
To find out the locations of any area, I would suggest you hire a moto-dope (or a tuk tuk) for couple of hours. Make him drive around and show you all the brothels.
If you live there, it probably would be a good idea to know some trusted local drivers (hard to find though, but if they know they can't rip you off, they will treat you decently). [/QUOTE]I was in PP last week and one afternoon was on the back of a moto going to the WA. Was being flagged down about halfway between Sihanouk and WA. I'd suggest to just take a walk on that stretch and see what happens.