Stupid Shit in Kyiv

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2968006] In March 2022, both Ukraine and Russia were close to a deal broadly along these same parameters. It did not work, because, among other reasons ... [/QUOTE]The "among other reasons" details are deal breakers.

Other than accepting the occupation of a large part of Ukrainian territory one other condition was severely limiting the size of the Ukrainian army to 50000 and what weapons it was allowed to have (aviation, armor, missiles). This would have guaranteed that Ukraine would have no means to defend itself in the future. Of course, Ukraine would have to trust Putin that it would not invade again, like after Minsk 1 and Minsk 2. Third time's a charm, right? It's not like Putin repeatedly said that Ukraine has no right to exist.

Such an accord could work only if you would have credible foreign troops as buffer between the Ukrainians and the Russians. What credible foreign troops are acceptable for both Russia and Ukraine?

The biggest success of Putin is that he managed to bullshit half the Republican party in the US. Ronald Reagan is turning in his grave.

Putin already robbed Crimea, now trying with Ukraine and killing nearly 1 million Russians. He also try to fuck Georgia and Romania. Our world would be better if we get rid of Putin. New Lenin, time to wake up, look what happened in Syria, all is possible even with a crazy dangerous who kill your children. Russia would live much better without Putin, when Russians and Ukrainians are brothers with many mixed families.

[QUOTE=PaulInZurich;2968036]The "among other reasons" details are deal breakers.

Other than accepting the occupation of a large part of Ukrainian territory one other condition was severely limiting the size of the Ukrainian army to 50000 and what weapons it was allowed to have (aviation, armor, missiles). This would have guaranteed that Ukraine would have no means to defend itself in the future. Of course, Ukraine would have to trust Putin that it would not invade again, like after Minsk 1 and Minsk 2. Third time's a charm, right? It's not like Putin repeatedly said that Ukraine has no right to exist.

Such an accord could work only if you would have credible foreign troops as buffer between the Ukrainians and the Russians. What credible foreign troops are acceptable for both Russia and Ukraine?

The biggest success of Putin is that he managed to bullshit half the Republican party in the US. Ronald Reagan is turning in his grave.[/QUOTE]I agree, that blaming it solely on Boris Johnson and western pressure is simplistic. This is the best article I've seen on negotiations during the early part of the war.

[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/06/15/world/europe/ukraine-russia-ceasefire-deal.html[/URL]

The biggest obstacle, as you say, revolved around how Ukraine could defend itself. But still the USA, Poland and others were encouraging the Ukrainians not to do a deal.

Excerpts from the article:

"We managed to find a very real compromise," Oleksandr Chalyi, a member of the Ukrainian negotiating team, said at a panel discussion in Geneva last December. "We were very close in the middle of April, in the end of April (2022), to finalize our war with some peaceful settlement. ".

The biggest problem, however, came in Article 5 (of the April 15,2022 draft peace treaty). It stated that, in the event of another armed attack on Ukraine, the "guarantor states" that would sign the treaty Great Britain, China, Russia, the United States and France would come to Ukraine's defense.

To the Ukrainians' dismay, there was a crucial departure from what Ukrainian negotiators said was discussed in Istanbul. Russia inserted a clause saying that all guarantor states, including Russia, had to approve the response if Ukraine were attacked. In effect, Moscow could invade Ukraine again and then veto any military intervention on Ukraine's behalf a seemingly absurd condition that Kyiv quickly identified as a dealbreaker.

With that change, a member of the Ukrainian negotiating team said, "we had no interest in continuing the talks. ".

They were very close. It's sad the two sides didn't continue talking after that. In the beginning stages of the war, when the front lines were changing daily, one or the other side was not going to want to negotiate because it thought it was winning. But there's been no excuse since about November, 2022, when this became the 21st century equivalent of "World War I trench warfare. ".

[QUOTE=PaulInZurich;2967964]This is so fucking funny. The guys in the Russian security council don't even wipe their ass unless Putin tells them to. Just a bunch of guys with mentality of slaves. Be careful, if you say otherwise, you will find out if you can fly.

Who said that Ukraine is not even a real country? Right, that was your daddy Vladdy.[/QUOTE]You are most welcome to extend your epithets to elected officials of your own country. You are exactly what we have been thinking of for years.

Ukraine became de facto a separate country, which is what matters most after all. However the legal process has never been followed up according to the letter of law.

Ukraine is part of our common homeland and we will never let you in like we did in the past, no Poles or Lithuanians, no Swedes, no Germans or French and no Americans. You don't belong here.

[QUOTE=PaulInZurich;2967964]Who said that Ukraine is not even a real country? [/QUOTE]Ukraine doesn't have politicians, only different faces of oligarchs. Foreign business paying to play is tolerated.

[QUOTE=Questner;2968302]...Ukraine is part of our common homeland and we will never let you in like we did in the past...[/QUOTE]Pure Russian propaganda -- unchanged since the czars.

[QUOTE=Questner;2968302]You are most welcome to extend your epithets to elected officials of your own country. You are exactly what we have been thinking of for years.

Ukraine became de facto a separate country, which is what matters most after all. However the legal process has never been followed up according to the letter of law.

Ukraine is part of our common homeland and we will never let you in like we did in the past, no Poles or Lithuanians, no Swedes, no Germans or French and no Americans. You don't belong here.[/QUOTE]Ukraine got independant when Putin was only unknown in KGB. Putin stole Crimea and now probably Georgia. He is killing many Russians and at war and fucking others. Wonderful Russia would be better without such crazy shameful dangerous, with more freedom and true informations. Putin was not anymore able to save Al Assad and need shameful North Korea, Iraq and China to help him versus weak Ukraine. Lands of freedom and human rights club helping Putin. Russia is not anymore able to build engines for military ships. Many mixed Ukrainian Russian familles, when they are brothers.

Putin's Chemical Ali is blown up by a scooter.

[QUOTE]A senior Russian general was killed Tuesday by a bomb hidden in a scooter outside his apartment building in Moscow, a day after Ukraines security service leveled criminal charges against him. A Ukrainian official said the service carried out the attack.

Lt. Gen. Igor Kirillov, the chief of the militarys nuclear, biological and chemical protection forces, was killed as he left for his office. Kirillovs assistant also died in the attack.

Kirillov, 54, was under sanctions from several countries, including the U.K. and Canada, for his actions in Moscows war in Ukraine. On Monday, Ukraines Security Service, or SBU, opened a criminal investigation against him, accusing him of directing the use of banned chemical weapons.

An official with the SBU said the agency was behind the attack. The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to release the information, described Kirillov as a war criminal and an entirely legitimate target.[/QUOTE][URL]https://apnews.com/article/russia-explosion-head-of-nuclear-defense-forces-killed-9656bce946a9f552454df9debe5fbd18[/URL]

Winter is coming to Russia. Finally.

[QUOTE]Russian winter crops are failing at an "unprecedented" rate, sparking fears that food prices could spiral out of control and lead to social unrest. Russian consumers have already experienced significant price hikes for basic food staples over the summer and autumn amid broader economic concerns.

Potato prices have skyrocketed by a staggering 78%, while costs for cabbage, beetroot, and butter have also surged between 27 and 31%. However, the situation looks set to worsen for hard-pressed Russian consumers, with farmers facing a record loss of winter crops.

The Russian analytical centre ProZerno reported that the share of poor and unsprouted winter crops for the 2025 harvest was at 38%. The researchers, who analysed data from the Hydro Meteorological Centre, described the number as "an unprecedentedly huge value", adding the situation had "never been this bad."[/QUOTE][URL]https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/major-vladimir-putin-war-blow-as-russia-faces-unprecedented-economic-setback/ar-AA1w0FiK[/URL]

Quote of the day.

Ukrainians are holding on, even as conditions above (and below) the ground become increasingly grim. Rain, slush, snow, cold, mud, bugs, worms, rats and glide bombs, says non-commissioned officer Ruslan Mokritsky. In the Kursk region, death is always close; it practically holds your hand.

[URL]https://www.economist.com/europe/2024/12/16/ukrainian-troops-celebrate-a-grim-christmas-in-kursk[/URL]

Ukrainian troops celebrate a grim Christmas in Kursk.

The West sees a gloomy picture for the Ukrainian Armed Forces in the Kursk region. Constant bombing, cold, dirt, rats, worms and sovereign dreams of Coca-Cola.

Major of the Ukrainian Armed Forces Ivan Bakrev speaks frankly about Ukraine's problems in the Kursk region: Vladimir Putin's people are tightening the screws, and this was even before North Korean soldiers began to enter the battle.

The Russians have a massive advantage in almost everything. Men, artillery, equipment. And switch between mechanized and infantry attacks to great effect.

Ukraine has already lost about half of the territories it once controlled. The failures began when Kiev replaced elite units with less seasoned ones in late September, and the major believes that this was a mistake.

Now the Russians are trying to cut off the main group from Ukraine by attacking the eastern and western flanks. All units in the Kursk region have gone on the defensive, he says.

The urgency of Russia's counteroffensive appears to be linked to Donald Trump's upcoming inauguration. Vladimir Putin wants the Kursk region to avoid becoming an awkward topic of discussion. Volodymyr Zelensky appears equally determined to keep it as a bargaining chip.

Ukrainians are holding on, even as conditions above (and below) the ground become increasingly grim. Rain, slush, snow, cold, mud, bugs, worms, rats and glide bombs, says non-commissioned officer Ruslan Mokritsky. In the Kursk region, death is always close; it practically holds your hand.

For Major Bakrev, the answer to the question of how he will celebrate Christmas is quite simple: Maybe I'll celebrate with a couple of volleys from our guns.

Officer Mokritsky, who will probably spend the night underground, shrugs. The soldiers on the front lines will celebrate as best they can: Maybe we'll have Coca-Cola.

[QUOTE=Questner;2968302]You are most welcome to extend your epithets to elected officials of your own country.[/QUOTE]Members of the Russian security council are appointed by Putin, not elected. Come to think about it, that is probably what you think a free and fair election is. The dictator appoints somebody and everybody else better shut up or they get to admire the great outdoors in Siberia.

--BUT ONLY WHEN IT SUITS THEM.

Unfortunately, MSM can be wrong, clumsy and inaccurate. Real journalists don't lie on purpose, but they can be lazy or rely on other sources in their research and fact-checking--as a result, failing victims to Russia's disinformation campaigns.

The Economist is wrong claiming that Ukraine has lost "about half" of their initial gains in Kursk Oblast. I mean, no one could've possibly blamed Ukraine if they have, being that 10,000 Ukrainians are holding off a 60,000-stong horde. But from what I'm seeing on Deep State and ISW, the geolocation data confirms Russian gains in 3 villages total (as of 12.16).

Three, that's it. Where does "about half" come from? Does The Economist quote Russian war bloggers / propacondoms now?

Sheesh!

Quote of the day by the Russian President about UKRAINIAN LEADERSHIP:

They will run away someday and will go not to church, but to the beach.

These people are not even atheists. Atheists are people who believe in something. They believe that God does not exist. But this is their faith, their conviction. And these are not atheists, they are simply people without any faith at all, such atheists. After all, they are ethnic Jews, but who has seen them in a synagogue? In my opinion, no one has seen them in a synagogue. It seems that they are not Orthodox, because they do not go to churches either. They are certainly not followers of Islam, because they are unlikely to appear in a mosque. These are people without a family, without a tribe. They do not care about anything that is dear to us and the overwhelming majority of the Ukrainian people. They will run away someday and will go not to church, but to the beach.

Chechnya's self-governing mafia don and Putin's pet Kadyrov shot an anti-aircraft Pantsir-S1 missile at an Azerbaijani passenger flight that was attempting to land at Chechnya's Grozny Airport. Despite the heavy damage and desperate pleas from the pilots, the plane was denied landing at Grozny, as well as 2 other Russian airports in Makhachkala and Mineralnye Vody and was instructed to cross the Caspian Sea and land in Kazakhstan. On approach to Aktau airport in Kazakhstan, the plane crash-landed killing 38 people on board including both pilots.

The Russians were likely hoping that the plane would dive into the sea, making it difficult if not impossible to identify them as the culprits. Some experts allege that Russia had intentionally turned off the plane's navigation system to further complicate any attempts at recovery. Unfortunately for them, the pilots managed to cross the Caspian Sea and reach the airport. As a result, 27 people survived the crash.

In Putin's Russia planes down missiles. What a country!

[B]WATCH: Russian Air Defenses Shoot Down Santa Claus in Christmas Video[/B]

[QUOTE]A Christmas short video spreading on Russia's pro-government Telegram channels depicted the country's air defense system shooting down Santa Claus as he entered Moscow airspace.

The clip surfaced on Russian social media, including Telegram and VK, just hours after Russia was accused of being involved in the crash of an airplane in Kazakhstan, which killed 38 people.[/QUOTE]What a country!

[URL]https://www.msn.com/en-us/public-safety-and-emergencies/general/watch-russian-air-defenses-shoot-down-santa-claus-in-christmas-video/ar-AA1wA76J?ocid=BingNewsSerp[/URL]

[URL]https://youtu.be/NOVni9TaF4s[/URL]

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2971058]Chechnya's self-governing mafia don and Putin's pet Kadyrov shot an anti-aircraft Pantsir-S1 missile at an Azerbaijani passenger flight that was attempting to land at Chechnya's Grozny Airport. Despite the heavy damage and desperate pleas from the pilots, the plane was denied landing at Grozny, as well as 2 other Russian airports in Makhachkala and Mineralnye Vody and was instructed to cross the Caspian Sea and land in Kazakhstan. On approach to Aktau airport in Kazakhstan, the plane crash-landed killing 38 people on board including both pilots.

The Russians were likely hoping that the plane would dive into the sea, making it difficult if not impossible to identify them as the culprits. Some experts allege that Russia had intentionally turned off the plane's navigation system to further complicate any attempts at recovery. Unfortunately for them, the pilots managed to cross the Caspian Sea and reach the airport. As a result, 27 people survived the crash.

In Putin's Russia planes down missiles. What a country![/QUOTE]'Some Experts'. Yeah.