Bangkok Reports

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;1901800]So stay thirsty friends. In the immortal words of Sting, "When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around."[/QUOTE]This post is a truly great read, wide ranging, positive, informative, full of generosity and hugely entertaining. Appreciation of anything in life is a state of mind and Natty seems to have found the secret of living in the moment. I also try to but the ageing process keeps getting in the way, fortunately not so that I don't still enjoy the unexpected highs that keep popping up when least expected and these in my opinion are just as likely to happen here in Bangkok in 2016 as they were in 2000.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;1901961]Goatscrot, I believe in many ways the definition of what passes for a "5 star life" in Bangkok vs what I recall about it 15-20 years ago has greatly improved. I might even go so far as to say most increases in P4 P costs beyond ordinary cost of living increases are justified because of those improvements. In fact, I didn't even like Bangkok all that much when I was taking multiple annual vacations here 15-20 years ago. I landed at the airport, maybe spent one night here and high tailed it to Pattaya ASAP. But today I love it. 15-20 years ago traffic was impossible, there was no useful BTS or MRT, laws had not been passed to require autos, buses, trucks and motorbikes to emit less poisonous exhaust and generate far less deafening engine noise. If anything, aside from the P4 P scene, I found the place excruciatingly boring after a night or two. Restaurants that served good western breakfasts or anything other than Thai food were few and far between.

Also, I don't honestly recall my experiences with the P4 P girls being all that much better either as long as I recognize their game today is to play at the abysmally low demand modern customer levels and, consequently, I make sure they understand upfront that I won't be accepting something that meager.

Bangkok is now a wonderful, modern, easily managed, ridiculously comfortable and accommodating major, world class City. I am not surprised P4 P girls available in such a luxurious upscale city would ask for or expect (even taking inflation into account) more than they did when the place was, imo, barely tolerable. As one would expect to pay more in Manhattan than in Wichita.

The place is just better overall. And that costs more. However, one can still find areas in and around Bangkok to live, eat and exist very similar to the way retirees did 15-20 years ago. If you want. Although I don't know why anyone would want to. You could find a small studio apartment with spotty aircon, no internet, miles from the nearest BTS or MRT station, very few if any western style restaurants, maybe no mega-mall or movie theater complex within practical reach and cover all of it for less than, oh, $800-$900 USD per month. Factoring in inflation, that might even be a bit cheaper than you could pull it off 15-20 years ago. You might even find a bar or two nearby where some truly lovely, even beautiful young ladies are willing to treat you to the same quality of sexual pleasure you enjoyed back in the old days for less than 1,000 baht per. But in that neighborhood you aren't going to get the best of the goodies that modern Bangkok has to offer today.

I'm not trying to dismiss your criticisms of Bangkok and the P4 P scene today vs yesteryear. I agree with many of them. I'm just pointing out that one really and truly could replicate pretty much the same lifestyle limitations presented by Bangkok 15-20 years ago, when it was cheaper, and pay those kinds of prices, inflation-adjusted, all over again to have them. If you wanted. But me? I don't want to! lol. So I pay more and live, eat and play where it is many, many times more fun, interesting and comfortable than I could enjoy anywhere in the city 15-20 years ago.[/QUOTE]30 k got you a palace in '00. I mean a palace. Great view, 2 bdr 2 bath.

I used to have all the hotel discount cards and could eat at the JW Marriot buffet for the equivalent of 12.50 USD. Using the discount card at the Sheraton you could indulge in one of their wine dinner for about 50 USD.

Western restaurants were fewer, but there were some very high quality place. LE Banyan springs to mind. It was on Suk Soi 8 and during the low season they would offer a three course meal for 1 k baht. Bruno the gruff French chef would come out and tell you what he had that day and you would choose your menu. Each course was enough to make a meal and the food quality was 5 star. They were famous for having the only duck press in BKK. And the durian or chocolate soufflés were to die for. And yes, you could have one of those on the set. We were never charged corkage and a bottle of calvados was on the table at the end for us to enjoy gratis. And again; all for 25 USD.

Now places like these will cost you well in excess of 100 USD. This is what I mean by a 5 star lifestyle on a 3 star budget.

Yes, there are more places to go in BKK, but the only thing I would not readily give up are some of the great coffee shops we have now. The rest I can honestly do without. I miss the slightly grungy edgy BKK.

[QUOTE=Wolvenvacht;1901993]Perhaps I did not express myself clearly. Honesty is of course a given. Never lead her on and hide your real intentions. If you confess to her to be somewhat of a "butterfly" and have no intentions of really committing yourself, then it is up to her to continue or not. But that you alrready made clear in your posting.

If you enjoy the extras a real GF can provide you, there is no reason to worry. Just make sure your conscience remains clear.[/QUOTE]Thanks for clarifying your point of view W.

I agree with you, especially about the conscience remaining clear.

Unfortunately, almost every day I read posts on ISG from guys who have no conscience whatsoever and this is reinforced by some of the stories I hear from women which results in them becoming very distrustful and even bitter towards well-meaning guys.

[QUOTE=RajuSingh788;1901557]Good folks on ISG.

Have been a long time lurker at the BKK forum, learning from your collective wisdom all the time. Just finished by 8th visit here and this time something happened, that I thought needs to be shared and maybe seek your collective advice / thoughts on.

My regular modus operandi before I get to Thailand is to chat up a few FL's on TF, Skout, Tinder, etc because I'm not a fan of the hardcore go-go bar scene. An occasional soapy, or massage experience is OK, but mainly I crave the GFE of a semi. Pro.

This strategy has served me well in the past. It has been well documented as well by a few of you. I like the relative uncertainty of meeting a gal this way and seeing how it plays out. Yeah sure, it has not always been happy sailing (one time I ended up at the police station, but that's story best forgotten). I have always been careful of not getting that emotional shit carry on beyond our first meeting. I make sure to pay her some amount, which makes sure to her that I'm not in it for the long haul.

So generally the kind of girls who meet up are either young and stupid, looking to buy the next iPhone or the Chanel dress, or 30+ milfs with mouths to feed, but face to save (typical Thai culture) and so go the semi pro route. This time though, was chatting up a working gal, works a pretty decent job, super cute, rocking hot bod, no kids, no commitments. That was a first for me, so I was kinda interested. I did make my intentions clear that I'm not in it for the long haul. She still insisted that we meet.

Picked her up from the BTS, back to my hotel room was a short 10 min walk. This chick went to work on me like there was no tomorrow. First night we did it 3 times. Next day she insisted we go to the kings palace. Paid for the taxi herself, paid for the food herself, even upon me insisting that I should pay. Back to the room and went to work again.

To cut a long story short, I've never had a romp like this, even during my college days, and that's saying a lot. Next morning, I was spent dry and sore. And she insisted on one last one. I told her, that's not happening, I might have to go to the hospital. Well, you know what happens when a Thai gal gets an idea in her head, she is unstoppable. Guess what, we did it one more time, and she taking me in her mouth, looking up and saying, "I win". Damn.

She then proceeded to launder all clothes, and iron them. I kept telling her, don't do stuff for me, but she wouldn't take no for an answer. I also made it pretty clear to her that I'm not in it for the long haul, she didn't seem to mind.

Now, I'm not handsome, not really rich, not young (35, she is 28 and cute as a button) and Indian (keeping it real here, Thai girls are not known to fall head over heels with Indians).

This has left me totally confused, never before have I been with a Thai girl (who is clearly not an FL, because I dropped her to her workplace the next day) who has acted in this way. Not sure if I should meet her again or even talk to her online.[/QUOTE]I think her picture answers your question for me. Anyways one mans trash is another mans treasure. Glad you had a good time.

[QUOTE=RajuSingh788;1901557]

This has left me totally confused, never before have I been with a Thai girl (who is clearly not an FL, because I dropped her to her workplace the next day) who has acted in this way. Not sure if I should meet her again or even talk to her online.[/QUOTE]Marry her. LOL.

[QUOTE=RajuSingh788;1901949]You guys have confused me further more.

*snip*. So yeah, can't figure this one out. What's bothering me is that even though she is not my GF, the uncomfortable feeling I have is exactly why I want to be away from relationships!
I have told her I'm not a one woman guy and "butterfly man", she just says. OK. Wants to meet up every week. I'm hoping it's just a sex thing for her, but from my past experience with women, I'm sure I am wrong.[/QUOTE]Raju, go spend a month in Bali or the Philippines or a monastery.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;1901800] My #1 & #2 girls were from Makati. #3 was Jakarta. My #4, #5, #6 was BKK. #7, #8 were Macau. #9 was Jakarta. #10, #11, &#12 was BKK. So while my BKK girls did not take home the Gold or Silver this year, they still did very well and made me very happy happy. The competition this year was very stiff. Let me be specific:[/QUOTE]I love this list of the best bar fines. How do you do it? LOL.

Natty glides, he has the fun loving disposition and he has tons of experience. He does well in places like Crazy House where nothing bothers him and he focuses on the ladies w / the beautiful faces, bodies, and (most importantly) heart. Deep pockets help a lot too I suppose.

I am not that much different in that I have high expectations but I look at just plain stunners and the not the GND type that Natty thrives w /. I don't have deep pocket either and I'm getting older which self cancels any stunners bar fining w / me. I find the Crazy House a rip off bar and I don't want it to be that but in my experience it is. I must have an invisible sucker sign over my head when I walk in there. My last few visits there were all very disappointing, again, all I want to do is be both be entertained and entertain my the next beauty sitting besides me. I have picked the wrong ladies on all my last visits.

They smile, sit by me, a minute later the LD arrives, the beauty gulps it down in one motion, then promptly gets right up, says I have to go dance now. Exactly like that, the process takes 3 minutes. I find it really strange. I blame it on the bar management. The women are taught to be sharks in there, plain and simple.

I went to a few other bars on SC, Tilac (not bad), no BF, The Doll House, they were full of rules, barfine plus 2/3 LDs, 2 hour time limit on BFs, clock starts upon leaving bar, each rule was pointed out after you agreed to the previous rule. A really frustrating process, 1000 b? Okay, Now you buy 3 LDs. What now? I have to buy 3 LDs? Then they tell you there's a 2 hour time limit. What? A 2 hour time limit?

So w / this barfine I started running out of time and didn't finish. My next bar was Bacarras, I visited the place twice. The dancers were of Crazy House quality, many smiling at me and whomever. I thought wow, I'm not used to this, maybe all will barfine w / me. I leave and return another night. There is a very pretty dancer falling all over herself to wave at me, smiling and giggling etc.

I sit her down and I tell her I like GFE, kissing etc and she is nodding and all good. We go for drinks at Country Roads and end up in the room and she can't provide GFE. Horrible service, after 5 minutes I stop it and she's on her way w / nothing, 100 b for taxi.

She says when she's leaving that Asian men are happy w / her service and that I'm no good. Okay I say, bye bye.

Then there is the Thermae. I love the concept and I love the place but it is full of hot young women that are only interested in Asian mongers. I mean some real stunning women but all I can do is look at them while they twist their bodies and heads away from my gaze. I will walk the gauntlet and there will be a few MILFs that are dying for my time and dough but the ones I'm interested in would rather I'm not there.

So right now I'm not a big BKK fan. I actually enjoy Patpong more than Nana or SC and have found some good times there. In general I say it's a sellers market in Thailand and I'm a buyer, an older buyer which doesn't help my cause. I think I look fit enough, and have plenty of charm and positive energy but when things go wrong I do change in demeanor. This is my only short coming besides my age. I wish I could glide like my buddy Natty but so far I don't handle adversity well. Sometimes the ladies can sense I'm not in a good mood and stay clear of me, that I can understand.

So as time goes on and I can spend more time abroad away from my screwed up hometown I hope to learn how better to operate under BKK's sellers market and make better choices in the gogos there and in Pattaya.

My mongering style is to find a hot dancer and than go out and bar hop, live it up a bit and then to the room. I think my style fits the PI better than it does BKK or Pattaya. I like to make the rules and not have them made by the gogo lady.

I had zero problems in the Philippines last trip and that's where I'll be going on my next trip and skip the sellers market all together.

Tomorrow I am heading to El Salvador for a week. A totally different scene.

I am a photo nut. If you're going to Thailand you won't get many pics like this.

A super spinner from the PI. No f-ing rules only trust and a killer f-ing body w / full on tit.

A little over the hill but I'll take the trade off.

I forgot that the topic was comparing Thailand from 15 years ago to now. Seems I am always a bit lost when it comes to posting here and once I hit upload I have no way to edit my post.

My first time in BKK was 2009 and the atmosphere seemed the same as today. Monger areas bustling w / business and the hookers being very cautious about every little thing.

On your first trip it is very surreal, you can't believe your eyes. In the back of your mind your waiting for the alarm clock to go off and wake up from this wonderful dream.

I think if I lived there I would have some access to the very best BKK has to offer, through patience, charm and $$.

But as a tourist I have a different mind set and I do get impatient, unfortunately for me.

Someday.

[QUOTE=RedKilt;1901856]With all due respect to Kumbu and Wolven, you need to assess your own situation.

For example, are you single yourself and actually, subconsciously, looking for a partner? If so, then it looks like you might have struck gold.

OTOH, if you cannot be serious with her or you are adamant about staying single, then you are playing with her emotions if you lead her on and if she really is as "nice" as you say then you are going to kick her in the teeth (in a manner of speaking) when you disappear. Your post and your questions shows that you're a decent guy so you need to think this through carefully.

There will be guys on the board who will advise you to exploit her as much as you can and then run away. I am not one of those guys, and I suspect you're not either.

Keep us posted.[/QUOTE]Let me also say that in no way was I suggesting that the girl be lead on. It seemed that Raju was not interested in a long term relationship, and my advice was to stick to that meme. In other words, honesty, but honesty done in a respectful way. No need to kick her to the curb or anything. I could not agree with you more that there is no call for playing with her emotions and exploiting her.

[QUOTE=Socker;1902306]I forgot that the topic was comparing Thailand from 15 years ago to now. Seems I am always a bit lost when it comes to posting here and once I hit upload I have no way to edit my post.

My first time in BKK was 2009 and the atmosphere seemed the same as today. Monger areas bustling w / business and the hookers being very cautious about every little thing.

On your first trip it is very surreal, you can't believe your eyes. In the back of your mind your waiting for the alarm clock to go off and wake up from this wonderful dream.

I think if I lived there I would have some access to the very best BKK has to offer, through patience, charm and $$.

But as a tourist I have a different mind set and I do get impatient, unfortunately for me.

Someday.[/QUOTE]I believe lot has changed from first time I was there in 2005. Of course first noticeable difference is dollar to baht. Used to be 1 to 40 but now 1 to 30. Every time I visit I feel that the girls are more business minded and there is no real connection. Of course time to time there is girl that connects well with you but the ratio has dropped so much. But all in all anybody who visits the Bangkok first time is going to have same feeling like when I was there in 2005. But I do miss old days.

[QUOTE=Socker;1902306]I forgot that the topic was comparing Thailand from 15 years ago to now. Seems I am always a bit lost when it comes to posting here and once I hit upload I have no way to edit my post.

My first time in BKK was 2009 and the atmosphere seemed the same as today. Monger areas bustling w / business and the hookers being very cautious about every little thing.

On your first trip it is very surreal, you can't believe your eyes. In the back of your mind your waiting for the alarm clock to go off and wake up from this wonderful dream.

I think if I lived there I would have some access to the very best BKK has to offer, through patience, charm and $$.

But as a tourist I have a different mind set and I do get impatient, unfortunately for me.

Someday.[/QUOTE]I also feel that a lot has changed. The first noticeable change is dollar to baht was 1 to 40 rather than 1 to 30. My first visit was in 2005 and since than from now I feel like girls are more systematic. It is now mostly about business to them and although it was same in 2005, it was not obvious to kill the mood. Sometimes you can find the one that connects but the ratio has dropped lot. All in all I believe for first timer that visit is going to feel same excitement as I did when I visited BKK in 2005. I do miss the old days.

Damn just saw that my post went through and I wrote same content twice. My internet dropped during the submit but hey it went in.

[QUOTE=Justemp;1902516]I also feel that a lot has changed. The first noticeable change is dollar to baht was 1 to 40 rather than 1 to 30. My first visit was in 2005 and since than from now I feel like girls are more systematic. It is now mostly about business to them and although it was same in 2005, it was not obvious to kill the mood. Sometimes you can find the one that connects but the ratio has dropped lot. All in all I believe for first timer that visit is going to feel same excitement as I did when I visited BKK in 2005. I do miss the old days.[/QUOTE]Currency exchange perspective really depends on your timing. Right now we are bang in the middle of your range at 35, and calendar 2016 is lining up to be the highest monthly average USD / THB year since 2007:

[URL]http://www.x-rates.com/average/?from=USD&to=THB&amount=1&year=2016[/URL]

SL.

A lot of discussion about Thailand going downhill in looks over the past 15 years. Obviously I wasn't around 15 years ago but I can't imagine if I took the top 5 girls out of Thermae or Baccara it would be A LOT different optically (keep in mind I prefer the post surgery noses and girls making themselves to look Caucasian). We all have our old favorites from years gone by no matter where we hobbied giving us a false sense that it used to be better.

Could the decline in optics for some be for other factors like for guys who were here 15 years ago they are now 15 years older and unable to get the hottest girls either due to being older in age or because Farangs are not the "in" thing any more? Could it be because girls at places like Thermae and gogo clubs like Baccara would select a Japanese (or Asian) guy over a Caucasian guy?

I was at Thermae this weekend and it's clear as day there is a preference to Japanese/Korean over Caucasian men. I watched an East Indian guy walk around trying to make contact with some girls and any of the hot young ones would turn their heads but some of the older ones would still talk to him. Also, the decent looking 25 year old Japanese guy would attract much more attention than a 50+ year old Japanese man.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;1901800]So stay thirsty friends. In the immortal words of Sting, "When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around."[/QUOTE]The master is back! What a post. Love it, and every word said here is true. No place has got better compared to 15 years ago. So living in the present and making the most of it seems the only way to go.