Berlin seems costly as a mongering destination
[QUOTE=Angus Magee; 1245465]In answer to.
[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?2588-FKK-Artemis-Berlin&p=1245414&viewfull=1#post1245414[/url]
Hi LJ,
A short primer in BBBBBBJA, Berlin Bordello Bare Back Blow Job Availability. Most bordellos offer BBBJ (&CIM) as a charged extra. The cost is usually around, €30 for BBBJ and €40 if you want to come in her mouth. Some smaller cheaper bordellos offer the BBBJ part as an enticement to punters but generally it is available and paid for.
KD is an exception. They offer nothing uncovered, except presumably a HJ if you go that way. So if BBBJ, or lack of it, is a deal killer for you, don't even bother with KD. There are those who say it is available, but do not count on it.
How do they do it in a city where BBBJ is the norm? I could speculate all the behind the scenes reasons but It comes down to service. For my money KD offers the most guaranteed session of any place I have visited, anywhere. I do hear the occasional report of dissatisfaction but myself I only ever had 1 less than stellar performance in that shop. So I guess they get away with it that way. There is a big enough local market of punters who are willing to cover up (let's face it if you have a wife or partner with whom you are having condom-less sex, even BBBJ carries a risk of passing something along) and pay a premium.
As for the 5 min. Thing-I think the distance between Royal and KD (probably a moot point now) is a fast 10+ minutes. 15 ata stroll. To do it in 5 you would have to practically jog.
AM.
PS-Even at the bordellos that do offer it as extra not all girls will do it. You best check with the individual girls when you meet them or ask the Hausmutti to only show you girls who offer it. I really think most will but it does well to check. BBBJ is known as "Französisch Ohne" or Ohne Vorspiele" and BBBJ-CIM as "Französisch Total".[/QUOTE]Thorough and detailed answer, as usual, AM. Thanks to you and to Kimino for responding.
I'd like to put this into economic perspective for the traveling monger community. If the bordello 1 hour session costs 150 Euro + 30 Euro for BBBJ, that would bring the hour session including BBBJ at Royal or Van Kampen to 180 Euro (almost $240 USD / hr). And one cannot bring that net rate down by sessioning with more girls as is possible at Artemis. To illustrate, if one's standard number of 1 hour FKK sessions on a given FKK visit is three sessions, then at Artemis that would total 120+120+120 (+80 entrance) totals 440 Euro ($582 USD) , which divided by the three sessions gives a net cost per session of 146 Euro / hr ($194 USD) /hour. So comparing apples to apples, Artemis with 146 Euro / hr (if one does 3 one hour sessions) compared to brothels like Royal or VK where the cost is 180 Euro / hr for the same 3 hours, is a far better choice, since in addition to the significantly lower price for the same service, Artemis also has a much larger size of quality line up to select from.
Therefore, for someone who doesn't live in Berlin, but is coming into Berlin on a mongering trip with the intent of having sex multiple times each day, such as in the example above of three 1 hour sessions with BBBJ, going to bordellos will cost 100 Euro more (540 Euro) than going to Artemis (440 Euro) and the selection will not be as extensive as at Artemis. So from an economic standpoint multiple session mongering at bordellos in Berlin is not the way to go. Head for Artemis.
From an economic standpoint, the bordello scene is only preferrable to someone seeking only ONE session that day. Then the 180 Euro cost at a bordello like Royal for 1 hour BBBJ session is less, but only slightly, than the 200 Euro cost for the same thing at Artemis. And because the cost difference is small (200 Euro versus 180 Euro) , I suppose even someone looking to session only once, might rather pay 20 more Euro at Artemis to have the broader selection there.
There may be other factors like ambience or privacy that might be valued by some hobbyists at a bordello, versus the FKK, but economically I see it as stated above.
As a traveler, evaluating Berlin as a mongering destination, with its nearly 146 Eur/$194 per hour net rate (if you do 3 one hour sesstions at Artemis) , Berlin is a much higher priced venue than the other options, like Ukraine or Poland where the costs are literally less than half (rates like $50 / hr, $75 / hr or $100 / hr are common) , and beauty is off the charts.
Even in a place like Vienna, ostensibly a Western European cosmopolitan city similar to Berlin, although the FKK Goldentime Vienna prices are similar to the prices in FKK Artemis in Berlin, the other Vienna options are telling. See for example [url]www.viennaescort.at[/url] And the like, where although the initial hour rate for an outcall escort may be in the neighborhood of 150 Euro, but the second hour goes down to 110 Euro / hr or 100 Euro / hr, which is more the norm and the center of gravity for a stunde.
Berlin is among the higher priced mongering destinations. By way of further example, if it costs 180 Euro in a Berlin bordello like Royal for a 1 hour session with BBBJ, which is about 150 GBP. Go take a look at [url]www.londonescortguide.com[/url] And see the type of Eastern European hotties available in London at that same price of 150 GBP (180 Euro)!
Just my 2 cents.
LJ
Calculatin' & Fornicatin'
[QUOTE=Angus Magee; 1245848]A fine analysis LJ. Agree that there is cheaper FKK sex to be had in Germany where there is more competition. In Berlin at the moment, Artemis is it and it is expensive.
AM[/QUOTE]All true. But a few additional thoughts. A lot of these calculations are relative in that you have to first be in a given location. The cost of getting to Kiev, Prague, Warsaw or Chiang Mai etc has to be factored in. Then even when there, there are time costs getting to know the scene, traveling to find comfort zones and flats etc. Then there is the risk factor-risk of false advertising, of faulty info, or good old-fashioned danger. True apples to apples (or mellons to mellons) comparisons are tough.
On the quality level, e g one would have to pay 25-50% more in London (which admittedly has significant amounts of good choices) , or say in New York, or LA, it can easily be double the cost and requires a lot of work and running around. In Geneva, or Zurich, there are also very good choices, again at about double the cost, though well organized. If you read say the Kiev ISG forum, it seems to be between epic and mythic. Some stunners, good prices, but a fair bit of hassles too. I must admit I would love to go sometime, but I keep getting put off by the potential complications and while some might find the feeling of being constantly on edge an additional 007ish thrill, I do not. All these places probably have their ebb and flow-recall in the late 90s / early 2000s the Baltics were "it". Perhaps Serbia and Croatia are. But you still have to get there, contend with the language and culture and unknown unknown issues. Of course like anywhere, once one really knows the scene, it is different. But there is a real cost in acquiring that knowledge, ISG reports not withstanding.
So the point is, Berlin IMHO remains a very good overall value proposition. It is safe, has wide variety of choices, a lot of cultural options when not partaking, it is easy to get around, and the whole business is well organized and just very hassle-free. It may not be the cheapest, but overall, it is a good deal.
Comparing the use of money for sex
[QUOTE=Rocketboy0; 1245878]All true. But a few additional thoughts. A lot of these calculations are relative in that you have to first be in a given location. The cost of getting to Kiev, Prague, Warsaw or Chiang Mai etc has to be factored in. Then even when there, there are time costs getting to know the scene, traveling to find comfort zones and flats etc. Then there is the risk factor-risk of false advertising, of faulty info, or good old-fashioned danger. True apples to apples (or mellons to mellons) comparisons are tough.
Etc.[/QUOTE]1) As I already mentionned : for 2 hours of meetings, Artemis cost the same amount than Kamilla-Dee ([url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?668-Berlin&p=1162576#post1162576[/url]) and would cost more than KD for less than 2 hours of meetings.
2) Comparing sauna-clubs to bordellos is a bit comparing Indian cooking to Chinese cooking : it will depend on what you like and expect for!
3) In general in Prague, I spend more money for sex than in Berlin but I can not say that Prague is more expensive than Berlin because in Prague, I often use "foreigner-oriented" escorts agencies' services while in Berlin, I often use bordellos' services : we can not really compare cakes to vegetables !!!
