Bangkok Reports

[quote=blunderer]

i've seen a few of these work out reasonably (ie, > 5 years and still going), and it hasn't taken a genius to work out where the girls came from before they got over this way (europe_.... and, as it happens i have a theory about this for you guys to dissect and shoot down at will.[/quote]

yes, but no. i see a lot of girls from thailand in europe. a lot of them are ex-bar girls, but some of them are not. the ones i know are mostly not bar girls, but that's because of the men they are married to are of a more "professional class." by that i mean, at minimum, a college degree and security clearance.

[quote=blunderer]the girl must have not been in the 'business' for long (and as a result has poor language skills)..[/quote] my wife has excellent english skills and was never a bar girl. she has a master's degree in english and taught at a university in bkk.

[quote=blunderer]the guy must be a bit long in the tooth and wondering if he'll ever get the family thing sorted out..[/quote]

yes. i am long in the tooth and don't give a damn about the family thing. who want's to change [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord131][CodeWord131][/url] (nappy's) at 55?

[quote=blunderer]the guy must be somewhere between lower middle and slightly upper middle class..[/quote]

not sure what this means. is it a matter of wealth or class?

[quote=blunderer]the girl must be the quiet type..[/quote]

absolutely correct! if you want a yappy type either get a poodle or marry a western witch. speak when spoken to is my mantra. i also tell my wife that if i want her opinion i will give it to her. (this ensures no sex for a few days).

[quote=blunderer]children are needed quickly..[/quote]

neither my wife nor i want kids. ruins her figure and who needs rug rats when you are "long in the tooth."

[quote=blunderer]oooh... very important, the guy mustn't be a hard core mongerer - ie, the girl he's with has to be pretty much the first one he saw off the plane..[/quote]

i don't know about this, but it has some validity because i have seen both sides. guys who fall in love with the first girl they meet (that's more a statement about the guy than the girl). and others, like me and my co-workers, whom have lived in thailand for a long time before meeting a suitable girl.

[quote=blunderer]the relationship must not take place in thailand.[/quote]

if you can't get them out of the country, how can the relationship not take place in thailand? if a guy meets a girl on a two week trip, them applies for a k-1 (sweetheart) visa and only has 90 days to marry her, then of course, there is going to be a high degree of failure. i lived with my wife for four years, both in thailand and in europe, before marrying her.

[quote=blunderer]now, my sample space for these observations is pretty damned small - 2 successful couples, but they both share all of the above traits.

i've seen a boatload of them fail 'in country' (although every now and again you hear of someone who's been going a v long time). i've also seen, umm, a few failed ones where the girl left the country - once more my sample space is pretty small; maybe 3 or 4.[/quote]

it comes down to this: you can take the girl out of the bar, but you can't take the bar out of the girl. if you take an ex-bar girl back to "civilized society" you can see where there might be problems. imaging christmas dinner with mom, pop, grandparents and the rest of the family as your "wife" drains the liquor cabinet, proceeds cuss like a sailor on shore leave, take off her clothes, look for a pole to dance with and starts to tell pop and grandpop that they are hansome men and she "loves them too much."

[quote=blunderer]

when i stop think about it, i have seen more non bargirl relationships come to europe and fail than bargirl ones. i am sure that is just a weird statistical anomoly..?
[/quote]

this is probably true because a bar girl has more life experience and can adapt easier to tough situations. plus, they can always earn a living by taking off their clothes, dancing with a pole and telling men they are hansome and she loves them too much.

[QUOTE=Retired Army]Yes, but no. I see a lot of girls from Thailand in Europe. A lot of them are ex-bar girls, but some of them are not.

<and a whole lot more>

[/QUOTE]
My reply is in the Thai Women Opinions & Advice thread.

Although I have heard a lot of stories about finding a Thai wife and bringing her home, I have not heard too many happy endings, no pun intended. To most of these girls, maybe 80%, this is a BUSINESS with a capital B and they are good at their job. That's not to say that you won't find one of the 20% that really do want to find a farang husband and have a better life. However, the odds are against us.

I had a Thai gf in BKK for about a year. I met her in a bar. I was completely sure she was "different". She was great to hang out with. great in bed, and took complete care of me while I was in BKK. She never asked me for money but I also gave her a bunch when I left and bought here whatever she wanted or needed when I was in BKK. She never asked for very much or anything very expensive.

She was too good to be true. I even hired a Thai Private Eye to check her out and she checked out. She was out of town a her family's home when she told me she was. She did not have another boyfriend. Must importantly, she was never a guy! She never had children and was never married. Everything checked out.

Just as things were going so well and I started to think maybe this is the one, I got a text message asking me for 50,000 baht. I knew the game and told her I didn't have it. She then asked my for 25,000 baht instead. That was the last time I spoke with her and have never seen her again.

However, and the point of my story is that their job is to make money from their lifestyle. Our desire or job is to get laid. We pay them to be so nice to us.

I don't want to be a pessimist and I know there are good girls too, but be prepared. Also, read a great book called Confessions of a Thai Private Eye. The stories are mind boggling and a great prep course for anyone that thinks they have found one of the good ones. Again, yes there are good ones, but be careful and be prepared. Read the book it shows you how a lot of the scams are pulled off and how the "bad" ones suck you in, no pun intended again.

I want to reiterate, before getting flamed, that yes there are a certain percentage of good girls, and the girls you meet out of the mongering seen are just like girls you can meet anywhere else. But remember, there is a reason why we pay most of them for sex and they accept payment to treat us so well. This is a business and with any business both sides must educated in how the business runs.

Don't mean to be too negative or offend anyone.

With Respect,

Juiceguy

[QUOTE=Bonhead]Write up in the NY Times about an English author of Mystery novels based on Bangkok's red light districts.

[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/25/books/25burd.html?[/url][/QUOTE]

I have read all of his books and they are a lot of fun to read. He has great insight to the bar scene and the darker side of Thai society. Great read.

[QUOTE=Retired Army]I was a member for years and considered it the best money I spent in Thailand. Since I don't hang out in the tourist areas, I needed some place to go and relax and "monger" without attracting any attention and the little lady not finding out about my activities.


Plan dropping at least a hundred bucks per visit.[/QUOTE]

Retired Army,

Can you recommend one club over the other? I have only been to Soprano House and although it is a great time hanging out, I could not figure out if the girls were p4p or not. Please let me know your thoughts and which clubs you recommend.

Thanks.

[QUOTE=Juiceguy]Although I have heard a lot of stories about finding a Thai wife and bringing her home, I have not heard too many happy endings, no pun intended. To most of these girls, maybe 80%, this is a BUSINESS with a capital B and they are good at their job. That's not to say that you won't find one of the 20% that really do want to find a farang husband and have a better life. However, the odds are against us.

I had a Thai gf in BKK for about a year. I met her in a bar. I was completely sure she was "different". She was great to hang out with. great in bed, and took complete care of me while I was in BKK. She never asked me for money but I also gave her a bunch when I left and bought here whatever she wanted or needed when I was in BKK. She never asked for very much or anything very expensive.

She was too good to be true. I even hired a Thai Private Eye to check her out and she checked out. She was out of town a her family's home when she told me she was. She did not have another boyfriend. Must importantly, she was never a guy! She never had children and was never married. Everything checked out.

Just as things were going so well and I started to think maybe this is the one, I got a text message asking me for 50,000 baht. I knew the game and told her I didn't have it. She then asked my for 25,000 baht instead. That was the last time I spoke with her and have never seen her again.

However, and the point of my story is that their job is to make money from their lifestyle. Our desire or job is to get laid. We pay them to be so nice to us.

Juiceguy[/QUOTE]

Haha, I'd read all the stories, I'd seen guys do the same and, in my case her stories never checked out properly, couldn't go to her apartment (which rang some serious bells years later when I read Stephen Leather's Private Dancer - available as a free ebook, PM me if you need the link) etc etc.

I knew it was wrong and wanted it to continue anyway.

I gave her, I dunno, 30,000 over the 3 weeks we spent together when we met - despite the fact that she was 'sore' quite a lot of the time and I didn't get much sex at all! (and that I haven't even confessed to my best friends!!) The tears at the airport melted my heart. I sent her another 60-80k shortly after I got home. I didn't have a bunch of guys sitting around telling me I was an idiot, just a hidden talent for denial and a not so hidden one for masochism.

Oh, did I mention she wasn't a prostitute, she just worked in some Japanese club and held men's hands, and sometimes they gave her gifts of cars or several hundred thousand kbaht. Several of these gifts were always coming but just out of reach when I met her, so she really loved me because she could easily get the money elsewhere.

The thing is, all the emotion on my side was real, and that was the aspect I was completely unprepared for... this ability to self-delude. I was ready to give up my job/life and take my meagre savings (which would've been something like 400,000 baht at that stage) and move to Thailand with no job etc etc.

After sending the last chunk of money (not my last chunk, just the last chunk I sent to her), I suddenly felt liberated. It was like a switch was flicked and suddenly I knew what it was like to be the puppet farang. There was no anger or hurt or anything else on my part except a touch of joy... lesson over, only about 100k baht spent. It was almost like I was deliberately being one of 'those guys' just so I could know what it felt like, then move on.

If you are worried that you are susceptible to this sort of thing (and not many men would want to admit they are, even to themselves), then, maybe, if you can delude yourself, my 'method' is one you can mould to fit yourself and use to learn the lessons you need to learn without becoming bitter. Wait until a time in your life when you either have, or can get your hands on, fuck all money before you try though. I think that I knew I needed to learn these lessons (being mak mak jai dee), so, on some level, I just let it continue even though I knew it was wrong.

[QUOTE=Blunderer]
I knew it was wrong and wanted it to continue anyway.

[/QUOTE]

Comment at the Thai women opinions and advice thread!

[QUOTE=Juiceguy]Retired Army,

Can you recommend one club over the other? I have only been to Soprano House and although it is a great time hanging out, I could not figure out if the girls were p4p or not. Please let me know your thoughts and which clubs you recommend.

Thanks.[/QUOTE]


I've only been to the pegagus, so that is the only club I can comment on.

Believe me, the girls at both places are P4P

[QUOTE=Blunderer]Yep, I was aware of all that, with the exception of the stuff about not having much of an impact/this is an illusion - can you cite sources?


OK, onto the numbers, and before we start, let me warn you that numbers marked with a * are simply my wild speculation, the rest, I dug around for, then took an informal average - 65% of foreign visitors to Thailand are men, so 15% of visitors men are there sans partner.

Let's be generous and say only half of these are mongers - 7.5%*. Now, around 6% of the Thai economy is tourism. So, 7.5% of 6% is around half a percent.... but you are forgetting (I knew you'd forget!) that single men have a per capita spending capacity that is a lot higher than the average family traveling tourist - let's say double* which I think is conservative.

So, just from my deliberately conservative numbers, we've got almost 1% of the Thai GDP contributed by sex tourism (which is a fucking big number*).

[/QUOTE]

Blunderer,
I feel your assumptions are reasonable. But may be the calculations can be modified like this:

Total male visitors = 65%
total female vistors = 35 %
So single male visitors = 65-35 = 30%
Keeping all other assumptions same, the impact on the GDP is 2% (MUCH larger than what we thought)
Magic M

[QUOTE=Magic Moments]Blunderer,
I feel your assumptions are reasonable. But may be the calculations can be modified like this:

Total male visitors = 65%
total female vistors = 35 %
So single male visitors = 65-35 = 30%
Keeping all other assumptions same, the impact on the GDP is 2% (MUCH larger than what we thought)
Magic M[/QUOTE]

All reasonable assumptions, except one small oversight: both Magic and Blunderer's theories are also based on the assumption that there are no single female visitors to the Kingdom. I suppose the actual number of single female visitors are relatively small for the theory to hold water.

Awesome estimates, nevertheless!

Thailand's GDP (PPP, The World Factbook - CIA) = $596.5 Billion (2006 est.)
So, 2% is about $12 Billion, or $1 Billion / month.

[QUOTE=Raverboy]All reasonable assumptions, except one small oversight: both Magic and Blunderer's theories are also based on the assumption that there are no single female visitors to the Kingdom. I suppose the actual number of single female visitors are relatively small for the theory to hold water.
[/QUOTE]

Aha, I did consider that as it happens, but I was trying to make the most conservative estimate I could. For each single female traveller there'll be a counterpart extra male one which just goes to inflate the numbers mentioned even further.

I mean come on, I think I read that something like one in 3 visitors to the kingdom go to Pattaya. What the fuck all else is there to do in Pattaya?!?!

If anybody tries to argue with the sentiment behind that last question I'll be shocked that there really is always one that'll argue with anything.

[QUOTE=Magic Moments]Blunderer,
I feel your assumptions are reasonable. But may be the calculations can be modified like this:

Total male visitors = 65%
total female vistors = 35 %
So single male visitors = 65-35 = 30%
Keeping all other assumptions same, the impact on the GDP is 2% (MUCH larger than what we thought)
Magic M[/QUOTE]

Oh, spot on. I am not sure how I cocked that up quite so badly.

Like they say at Eden, double everything then.

Incidentally, forgetting about business meetings that happen in BKK instead of elsewhere, think of the vast number of foreign consultants that come in to provide support for the business which solely cater to that segment of the tourists which come in for sex.

Further, all the guys who go and buy into a hotel, or a bar or a boat hire business or whatever are spending *way* over the per capita average.

The more you think about it, the bigger and bigger the numbers get.

Giving up on conservatism - with all the knock on effects (and there is a lot of them) I wouldn't be surprised if the true number was somewhere between 5 and 10.

I wonder what the numbers are for the Philippines..?

Not much info on this hotel on ISG. It looks to be a high end boutique hotel with it's sister property in New York City.

I am booked for 5 nights next month. I arrive late at night (should be at the hotel by 1:00 AM). I'm familiar with NANA parking lot for late nighters. I have also heard that Soi Cowboy "sometimes" stays open until 2:00 AM.

The hotel is on Soi 15 and I would rather avoid NANA. Has anyone had recent experiences or a recommendation they could make? I prefer to stay close to the hotel and would entertain a massage place with a happy finish if there is one in close proximity. Soi Cowboy would be great as well if it is open late still.

Many thanks.

earlier this week i decided to take a stroll downtown sukhumvit road and took a taxi to soi 8. i remembered a mention about pimporn massage and the possibility of "play" after a nice professional massage.

the taxi driver was a pain in the ass, the moment i mentioned soi 8, he started showing me a brochure of cupidy, pushing to take me to a soapy massage. i looked at the flyer and, of course, none of the girls were actually girls i have previously seen at cupidy.

i laughed and told him i live in bkk and know cupidy already, but did not want to go. he insisted i have a look because there were "many beautiful ladies". i told him that i would never go to cupidy by taxi because they pay the taxi drivers a commission of thb 500. he looked at me for a second and started his sales speech "yes, 500thb for taxi but i can negotiate for you special price! lady 5000thb but i negotiate you 3000 only, ok? " i laughed harder and told him that i usually pay 1, 800 at cupidy but he did not (or chose not to) believe me.

after a few minutes of silence he comes back with another sales line: "i know special place, but only thai people, cheap cheap, 2, 000thb special for you, same price thai people"

i smiled and refused. he started talking about other options but i pretended i was not listening and ignoring him, which worked because he ended up tired of talking to himself and kept quiet until we reached soi 8.

once inside soi 8, i need just a quick glance at pimporn to see that this is not really the kind of place i have imagined. small place and by the look of it there is no guarantee of extras. outside pimporn are your usual run of the mil, 40ish plump massage girls trying to reel in the passing farangs using the usual "hello sir, welcome, massage".

with pimporn out of the way, there are not many options here for guaranteed extras: aviva massage [url]www.avivabkk.com[/url] or [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord900][CodeWord900][/url] [url]http://www.lolitasbangkok.com[/url]

i promised myself that i would never return to aviva, had too many bad experiences there which clearly shows that the management doesn't care about service levels. fortunately we are in bangkok and there is no shortage of opportunities to get laid.

so i guess it's off to [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord900][CodeWord900][/url]!

as i walk in the subsoi leading to the entrance, the girls already giggle, sensing the arrival of a new piece of meat to suck on. as i reach the bunch of them, i see a 60 y-old farang with a thick beard, sweaty, shorts, sandals, dirty t-shirt leaving [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord900][CodeWord900][/url], quickly followed by a tg with a disgusted look on her face. she says something in thai (pointing in the direction of the farang) and all the girls laugh, i am not sure what was being said but it would not surprise me that she was clearly making fun of him, in a bad way. i guess these girls need to keep making each other laugh in order to retain a little sanity because, after all, it's far from a dream job they're doing eh?

the lady that just finished starts to get all close with me and asks me if i want to go upstairs with her, i look at her and cannot stop from laughing a little. here is a girl who probably still has another man's semen residue in her mouth, asking me to take out my dick so she can rub it over that "deposit" the other guy just left in her mouth. thanks, but no thanks.

it is already risky enough to frequent a bj bar as it is.

i take my time and look at the brochette of ladies available. 5 ladies are seated on the stools, 3 chatting and smoking (cigarettes) and 3 eating. i have bad memories from the last time i took a lady who had just eaten (burned my cock because she ate so spicy) and i am not fond of ladies who smoke (now that's a pun).

i notice a young petite girl that seems to have a nice perky pair of breasts, i smile at her, she smiles back and, right this instant, both of us know she's going to be polishing my member in a couple minutes.

i give her a little wink and she gets up her stool, grabs my arm and escorts me inside. i order a beer and asks her if she wants a drink, she looks at me as if she did not hear properly so i ask her again if she would care for a beverage and she kindly refuses. i know this place is not a place where you can chill out with a beer with your girl and have a meaningful conversation (actually it's more like "blow & go", "in & out") but i can't order a drink without offering one to the lady standing next to me.

we walk up the stairs and i can't help but notice the perfectly shaped little ass on her, i have to fight hard not to just extend my arm and squeeze it.

upon arriving in the room i notice all cubicles are empty, i pick the one in the far corner, take my pants off completely and sit down on the sofa, ready for a trip in nirvana.

she takes one of their wet towels and wipes my dick clean, no, not to get too sidetracked here, i don't see the purpose of cleaning your dick with these special wipes other than for smell. i am certain these wipes have no antibacterial agents or alcohol on them to be able to "clean" anything, it's just a scented wet piece of paper isn't it?

there she is looking me right in the eyes and stroking me slowly, probably waiting for my cock to grow a little bigger before she bites on it. she hasn't done anything specific to me yet and i already like her, somehow, i know i made the right choice. she is still looking me right in the eyes and, in a very provocative way, sticks her tongue out and licks her lips. needless to say that at that point i am standing fully erect waiting for her to wrap her lips over and around my little (or not so little anymore) fellow, she smiles at me and slowly starts to lower her head, the warm feeling of her mouth is fantastic and i can't help but let go of a little grunt of pleasure. she must sense i like my blowjobs slow because she shows no signs of wanting me to finish quickly, she very slowly services me in an up and down motion, full of tongue play.

i reach over her shirt and start to unbutton it, revealing a very nice bra. she takes it off and proudly massages her own breasts (which look gorgeous on her, although not natural).

i ask her to join me on the sofa so that i can have easy access to her tits and also grab her sweet little bosom.

after a good 10 minutes of fondling and sucking, i can't hold it any longer and release a long and powerful orgasm inside her mouth. despite me finishing already, she does not seem to be distracted and continues to suck for what seemed like 5 minutes (was probably more like 30 seconds) and the feeling was, soothing.

she asked me if i wanted a second blow job (a first for me at [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord900][CodeWord900][/url], usually that happens more at sol) but i kindly refused. i asked her if she had a friend that she would like to have a threesome with and she, without even a second to think, nodded positively.

i promised her i would be back, tipped her and left with a big smile on my face!

[size=-2][b][u]editor's note[/u]:[/b] [blue]i certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the reports of distinction thread. please [url=http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?]click here[/url] for more information.[/blue][/size]

[QUOTE=Juiceguy]
Just as things were going so well and I started to think maybe this is the one, I got a text message asking me for 50,000 baht. I knew the game and told her I didn't have it. She then asked my for 25,000 baht instead. That was the last time I spoke with her and have never seen her again.

However, and the point of my story is that their job is to make money from their lifestyle. Our desire or job is to get laid. We pay them to be so nice to us.
Juiceguy[/QUOTE]
Thai girls probably imagine that Western guys have plenty of money.

She probably decided that you were a stingy bastard who could not even spare 25K Baht and that you probably just wanted to screw her.
I may be way off based on not understanding what your "bunch" of money meant. I don't see the evidence in your story that she was a "bad" girl or a scam artist. however perhaps the some of the story was omitted.
Most Thai girls, not in well paid jobs, have lives dominated by financial pressures. They have families to support. Poor girls who never need some financial help will be rare.

I feel this problem will always arise for couples of non-equal financial standing.
So look for a rich girl who is just intested in serving your needs.

On a tangent:
I know of one Thai girl who waits on her Thai boyfriend hand and foot, takes all his orders, and pays for him all the time even though she has insufficient money. He works but presumably keeps his money for something else. Is she "truelly" in love? or just stupid?