Stupid Shit in Kyiv

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2982399]Zelenski was fully right to resist to a criminal like Putin, despite corruption, he has all my respect to defend freedom versus a shameful dictator. Ukrainians are very courageous.[/QUOTE]This clown Zelensky stole billions of dollars, destroyed a generation of his country's young men and wrecked his country by choosing to go along with NATO and their wishes. What did he achieve? Is Ukraine ever going to be a part of NATO? NO. I said this from day 1. So what was the point of all this sucking up to NATO? Other than pocketing billions of dollars of course. If he still has your respect after all that, then.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2982416]You never answered a simple question: Why do you believe Ukraine could've gotten a better deal in 2022 than now. Well, let me help.

[B]They wouldn't.[/B]

In the early stages of the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, both nations engaged in a series of negotiations aimed at halting the conflict. These discussions, held between late February and April 2022, revealed distinct and often opposing objectives from each side.

What the Russians wanted:

1. Neutrality and Demilitarization: Russia insisted that Ukraine enshrine a neutral status in its constitution. That means forever.

2. Russia demanded significant reductions in Ukraine's military capabilities, proposing a drastic downsizing of the Ukrainian army to about 50,000 personnel, along with strict limitations on armaments and military infrastructure.

3. Territorial Concessions: Moscow required Ukraine to recognize Russia's sovereignty over Crimea and autonomy for the ethnic Russian provinces in eastern and southeastern Ukraine. .

4. Cultural and Political Concessions: The Kremlin demanded that Ukraine grant the Russian language official status and implement laws that would align with Russian perspectives on historical and cultural issues.
[/QUOTE]Those terms are correct in 2022. And if you pull your head out of your ass, you'd know that Zelensky was okay with those terms and a peace deal was ready to be signed until Boris Johnson / NATO told Zelesnsky to fight on.

And what are the terms on offer now? Crimea + full Russian control of the 4 new territories + neutrality and all the other stuff you mentioned. The longer this goes on, the more difficult the settlement terms will get. That is something which your dumbass fails to grasp because you're either delusional, stupid or ill informed. I think it's a combo of all three in your case but happy to educate you.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2982426]

There is only one hope for Ukraine -- to hold on for the next 4 years hoping that Europe won't budge.[/QUOTE]Well, that's not going to happen. As soon as America stops the $$ and weapons, Ukraine will negotiate and cede territory and accept the core Russian demands. Of course, this will be a negotiation so there will be give and take, but I think at a minimum, the Russians will demand the below (in addition to other stuff and yes there may be some give or take):

1. No NATO. Neutrality for Ukraine.

2. Full control of the Donbas and Zap / Kherson. Now there could be some give and take here, let's see.

3. Crimea forever part of Russia.

If there is no peace in the near future, my prediction is that the Russians will take Odessa and Kharkov, and possibly 2 more oblasts. So once again, the longer this goes on, the more territory Ukraine will lose and more wrecked it will become.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2982423]Really? I'm seeing Trump's tweet, not Musk. This is extremely unprofessional, Igor#3.[/QUOTE]Musk tweeted it. Why dodn't you disappear, now that your freak, Zelensky, has lost. The EU and the Brits are begging tobe at the negotiations. Ha ha. They wil be left with cry baby Zelensky and his butt boys like you. I take it you are a bottom.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2982399]Zelenski was fully right to resist to a criminal like Putin, despite corruption, he has all my respect to defend freedom versus a shameful dictator. Ukrainians are very courageous.[/QUOTE]Zelensky is a corrupt, criminal dictator. He has no mandate. Yes, the Ukrainians who rest his press gang, are brave, and those who die for this scheming Jewish criminal are dead.

[QUOTE=Jarango;2982518]Zelensky is a corrupt, criminal dictator. He has no mandate. Yes, the Ukrainians who rest his press gang, are brave, and those who die for this scheming Jewish criminal are dead.[/QUOTE]Putin is a dictator and criminal, he is even scared to travel because of international law prosecution. Like a rat in his country. Ukrainians followed Zelinsky since 2022 , to defend their land and freedom. I love country Russia, but I support Zelinsky and Ukrainians for this war only Putin decided. I wish Ukraine won t accept to be fucked by Trump and Putin, when EU is with Ukraine.

[QUOTE=BloodRed;2982509]This clown Zelensky stole billions of dollars, destroyed a generation of his country's young men and wrecked his country by choosing to go along with NATO and their wishes. What did he achieve? Is Ukraine ever going to be a part of NATO? NO. I said this from day 1. So what was the point of all this sucking up to NATO? Other than pocketing billions of dollars of course. If he still has your respect after all that, then.[/QUOTE]Ukrainians don t want to belong to Putin, like blind Russians under propaganda. And Putin killed so many Russians who are against him and on this war. Ukraine had experience to be stolen Crimea, reason why they ask for protection, but not to attack paranoiac criminal Putin. No country never planned to attack Russia. Only Putin made war and Russia broke.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2982419]Right, and this is yet another thing that anti-Semites shouldn't say out loud (well, other than amongst your ilk) if you don't want others to know what you are. Thanks for illustrating my point and bringing it to my attention.

Boy, anti-Semites are so easy, LOL. They just can't help it.[/QUOTE]Why should I not say it out loud if it happens to be the truth?

And the fact that you constantly make ad hominem attacks and tell me I shouldn't say something factual because I am then a xyz. Pretty much proves my point about you, hypocrite.

What's even more hypocritical is that you dodged the point of how your attempt of suppression of the truth is more in line with the ideology of Russia, which you are deriding.

Will say one thing about HotDog666 and Sirioja. They are consistent as fuck! Running flame wars across multiple country RANT threads. And Sirioja even in the American Politics Thread.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2982539]Putin is a dictator and criminal, he is even scared to travel because of international law prosecution. Like a rat in his country. Ukrainians followed Zelinsky since 2022 , to defend their land and freedom. I love country Russia, but I support Zelinsky and Ukrainians for this war only Putin decided. I wish Ukraine won t accept to be fucked by Trump and Putin, when EU is with Ukraine.[/QUOTE]Zelernsky, who is not "really" Ukrainian (raised speaking Russian and is from a minority group) has no mandate and refuses to hold elections. Putin's travel options were limited because British agent Khan put out a contract on him, But Putin will travel to Saudi or to China to put an end to Zelensky, who was elected on a peace mandate he reneged on, with Trump.

Trump has shown Europe, whose FM is an Estonian nobody raised in Soviet privilege, they are irrelevant. Gemany and France reneged on the Minsk Accord and they should bleed for that with some tough Rusisan love.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2982416]You never answered a simple question: Why do you believe Ukraine could've gotten a better deal in 2022 than now. Well, let me help..[/QUOTE]And your point is what? That the billions of dollars spent and millions who died was for nothing? If the deal today is the same as it was in 2022, then it was pretty fucking stupid that Zelensky did not take it.

And your point now is that this stupid fucking war should continue?

I think you dumb Democratic douches do not get why you even fucking lost the election. When people were losing their homes in North Carolina, that idiot Kamala brought up DEI language. And when there is all this money for illegal immigrants and Zelensky and "weakening Putin", the people in NC were given these paltry three figure checks. Then came Florida with the hurricanes and California with the fires and it was the same BS.

Thanks for admitting the war was worthless.

[QUOTE=Jarango;2982609]Zelernsky, who is not "really" Ukrainian (raised speaking Russian and is from a minority group) has no mandate and refuses to hold elections. Putin's travel options were limited because British agent Khan put out a contract on him, But Putin will travel to Saudi or to China to put an end to Zelensky, who was elected on a peace mandate he reneged on, with Trump.

Trump has shown Europe, whose FM is an Estonian nobody raised in Soviet privilege, they are irrelevant. Gemany and France reneged on the Minsk Accord and they should bleed for that with some tough Rusisan love.[/QUOTE]So, you support criminal Putin who can only travel to no human rights countries. Even crazy Trump he hold balls in his hand after prostitutes party in Moscow for Trump, doesn't want to welcome him in USA, when Zelinsky is welcome and supported all over Europe except Orban. Hu who is nothing in EU. I hope EU won t accept senile Trump bullshits, as in economics, when Trump is only a fire maker with 0 knowledge. World changed, USA are not anymore king of the world and Russian army is now weak, they couldn't defeat so weak Ukraine in 3 years long. Best is to get rid of criminal shameful Putin and great Russia will be much better without him when he makes Russia rejected by all modern in mind countries. His friends are only dictators like him. But he hold Trump balls in his hand, with prostitutes party photos, when Trump is a sexual criminal who think more with his small tool. At least, Zelensky and Ukrainians have balls to resist for their land and freedom.

Well, it looks like NATO is off the table for UA, and Victoria Nuland and her corrupt gang of crony capitalist looters and puppet masters nevertheless made off with the big money, noting Biden's son has unexplained wealth and links with UA (presumably because of multi-lingual skills, personal temperance, big IQ and superior trading skill - this is sarcasm - unfortunately have to say it). Zelinksy and his corrupt buddies can now retire to their mansions in the west and leave the scraps to the next turds that float to the surface to steal. Maybe insiders in UA, maybe Russian oligarchs, who knows. Stealing knows no boundaries, nationality or where the $ transits, and personalities are just distractions from the real game. The big law firms in London pander to such people and the thugs in Africa, or indeed anyone with coin. Money is washed, companies made to look respectable and of course secrecy, but only to the connected, different rules apply to everyone else.

As for the people of UA, their flag waving and jingos has left them with a wrecked country, maimed, dead and permanently alienated and cynical youth who, if they have any brains, desperately want to get the hell out of this perpetually failed state. Its hot young women are in the brothels of Germany, at least being paid to get fucked and create joy for men, unlike most of the UA population. There is talk of making Europe pay for reconstruction, meaning a few insiders get to raid the treasuries of the EU and siphon off $, the same people who probably had side deals on the killing and already out in the field buying up land / assets on the cheap.

Follow the money. It nearly always tells the real story, not the emotive theater for public consumption and self-righteous armchair types in their leafy, upper middle class suburbs who are ultimately paying for this glittering con job. The same people who use reductionist labels for those that challenge their pet scripts, you know, red necks, anti-semites, etc, play the man not the ball, preferably in abstract stuff as opposed to nitty gritty detail of who is benefiting from the deal.

I feel sorry for people conned into the emotive flag waving bullshit now starting to wake up to the sad reality of being played for suckers. Politicians are inherently corrupt liars with very few exceptions and generally unemployable outside of grifting.

[QUOTE=SubCmdr;2982605]Will say one thing about HotDog666 and Sirioja. They are consistent as fuck! Running flame wars across multiple country RANT threads. And Sirioja even in the American Politics Thread.[/QUOTE]I hate Putin and Trump, but I love Russia and I support Ukrainians and think our world must give a real country named Palestine to Palestinians.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2982615]And your point is what? That the billions of dollars spent and millions who died was for nothing? If the deal today is the same as it was in 2022, then it was pretty fucking stupid that Zelensky did not take it.

And your point now is that this stupid fucking war should continue?[/QUOTE]No, dimwit, the deal is not the same. No, it wasn't for nothing. In the last 2 years Ukraine has considerably improved its military standing, and no one will dare demand that they reduce their armed forces to 40,000 people today. You still haven't done any reading on the specifics of the Putin's 2022 "deal", you're just parroting the talking points of paid Russian propacondoms.

If Zelensky gave up in 2022, Puting would've destroyed Ukraine as an independent state by now. The reason why that country is still standing is that Zelensky stayed in Kyiv and Ukrainians have fought tooth and nail ever since. According to your logic, Churchill should've stopped fighting in 1940 because he SEEMINGLY didn't stand a chance against Der Fuhrer. My goodness, what a despicable human being you are if you really can't understand why people fight for their country.