Thai Women - Opinions & Advice

[QUOTE=Tansak KTV]OTH is correct however that many of them are lazy. Maybe I won't go as far as say they are lazy (atleast not all of them) but once they see they can make 40 - 80 K a month it is hard for them to accept to work for 7 K a month. Even getting a girl to live on 15,000 baht a month is hard to do if you take her out of a bar and that is close to double what the uneducated and unskilled labor earns (I think unskilled is maybe 7,000 a month).

They have an option, not an attractive option espeically if they have family depending on them for support and they have already offered the support. How are they to tell family that they can't send XXX baht a month anymore as they are getting a different job. And most of them have no marketable skills that they can't even come close to getting what OTH gave that girl.

Yes they all have options, but it's not always that simple. Especially once they get into it for a while.[/QUOTE]

We are probably on the same page. I too, don't agree that it's necessarily laziness. It's the disparity in earnings with the huge tradeoff of the girls "selling their soul", that makes it a very difficult decision. It's also a decision that often results in a a "no turning back" scenario.

AT2

[QUOTE=AsiaTraveler2]It's the disparity in earnings with the huge tradeoff of the girls "selling their soul", that makes it a very difficult decision. It's also a decision that often results in a a "no turning back" scenario.AT2[/QUOTE]

I think that suggesting that these girls put thought into a "difficult decision" is quite a stretch. Thais don't think that much. What usually happens is that only seeing the short-term gains, the party life that many of them enjoy (drugs and drink play a huge part), the lack of responsibility without a thought for the future, many girls, far from desparate, but with little ambition just go this route. Sure there are those that are supporting their families. But, these tend to be older women and it's often because they have dead-beat Dads, brothers, ex-BFs/husbands who don't accept their financial responsibilities. Thai women, (at least Isaan women) are expected to carry the burden.

However, having said that there are large numbers of younger girls who are in it only for the easy money, which they spend largely on themselves.

Also, as for the types of opportunities I gave my ex...lots of these girls could do some of the same, even without help from a Farang. Even in a country as lopsided as Thailand, where the privileged get preferential treatment, they still have free education for 12 years, and students loans and scholarships for college and university.

Most of the P4P girls I've met dropped out of school by choice because they didn't want to study, not because they didn't have the opportunity to study. So, if they have limited options, they have themselves to blame to a certain extent.

However, as in all things there are exceptions. I mentioned once in a post about a girl I used to take out of Long Gun back in 1998. This girl was quite popular and very shrewd. She had a couple of guys online sending her money including one moron in Australia who sent her 65,000/month. She had a bank balance of 600,000 baht. When I met her she spoke almost no English. Within a year she had, quit the bar, studied English and enrolled in university. She eventually managed to get an MBA. She always told me she had a plan and purpose for working in the bar. But, she clearly is an exceptional case.

I stand by what I have said. Many of these girls (but, of course not all) are lazy, lack ambition and never think about the long term.

Asian,

No one is being heartless, but if you didn't have reservations you wouldn't have opened your heart to tell us your story! to see what you would come up with. Just because the answers you have read isn't what you expected don't go away mad! Sometimes shock treatment is what we all need from time to time.
We here all (nearly) agree that they are human beings and regardless of their profession or where they came from they should still be treated with respect until they prove that they don't deserve it.

You came, you enjoyed and you want more of it like yaba! and you seem to have already made up your mine so come again and enjoy yourself with her but always with a bit of caution and watch your pocket book. If we are correct the call for help will not be far behind after your next trip! Sick snake, sick dog, sick cat... the call will come! If not then you might have found a gem and we were wrong but not often.

Good luck but enjoy yourself with a bit of caution.

LBM

[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand] ... Thais don't think that much. What usually happens is that only seeing the short-term gains, the party life that many of them enjoy (drugs and drink play a huge part), the lack of responsibility without a thought for the future, many girls, far from desparate, but with little ambition just go this route ... there are large numbers of younger girls who are in it only for the easy money, which they spend largely on themselves...[/QUOTE]

Let us all take a moment to humbly bow our heads in silent tribute to this wonderful state of affairs in the Land of Smiles. :)

So much of this discussion is redundancy of many prior posts but not much appears to have changed. There are strong and weak points on both sides of the debate and in the end people will make their own choice because no one will likely make a decision based on what is posted here. Hookers and matrimony will generally not translate into solid unions but a man takes a chance when he enters into a relationship with a normal woman and 50 percent of the time those relationships with normal women will fail. Entering into a relationship with a hooker has higher incident of risk and failure. It’s a matter of how just how much you are willing to risk to reap your reward.

[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]For every P4P girl with a sob story, who has taken the easy way out, there are probably 100 of equal economic and social standing, with the same sad life, who value their personal integrity above quick money and opt to work for considerably less in socially acceptable jobs, in order to not violate their cultural traditions.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand] 2,000,000 at one time. It remains the current estimate of the number of active prostitutes in the country.[/QUOTE]

By my understanding of statistics, that equates to about one-in-ten, not one-in-a-hundred. And that's before we make any adjustments for social demography. This is way too large a percentage to be passed off as layabouts and misfits.

[QUOTE=Terry Terrier]By my understanding of statistics that equates to about one-in-ten, not one-in-a-hundred. And that's before we make any adjustments for social demography. This is way too large a percentage to be passed off as layabouts and misfits[/QUOTE]

My mistake. You're more or less correct in your calculations (it's supposedly around 7%). I don't know what the adult female population is. I only know that the total female popluation is somewhere around 38,000,000. Regardless of 7% or 10%, that still means that 90-93% of Thai women opt to try to survive by not taking the easy path.

I still stand by my opinion that they are mostly 'layabouts and misfits'. They are most certainly social pariahs within Thai culture. They don't deserve the deifying they sometimes get on this board.

[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]...They don't deserve the deifying they sometimes get on this board.[/QUOTE]

So true! I've found that dealing with them on a day to day basis definately requires a more or less hands on approach as opposed to the largely spiritual deification process they sometimes receive here.

[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]She lasted a year and then quit, because she didn't like the 9-5 routine. She ...eventually ended up back in a bar in Pattaya: full circle after 5 years. She had it all, but blew it because she was lazy and had no discipline.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]Within a year she had quit the bar, studied English and enrolled in university. She eventually managed to get an MBA. She always told me she had a plan and purpose for working in the bar.[/QUOTE]

OTH: Your measurement of success is based solely on their ability to leave the industry and do something 'worthwhile' with their lives. Why is it that people in other occupations are allowed to fritter away their cash and live for the moment, but hookers are expected to aim for something 'higher'? We praise others for longevity of service and increased earning potential, but only credit sex workers when they get out quick and find a low-paying, but respectable, job. That makes no sense to me.

I don't understand how choosing the highest paid job available to you, especially if it's something you enjoy doing, constitutes being 'lazy'. One of my mates, who used to run his own business in construction, recently left his labour-intensive, fulltime $70,000 job to join the mining boom up north. He now works two weeks on, two weeks off (ie. he works only six months a year), sits in a tin hut all day giving directions to trucks and earns over $150,000. How is this different to a woman choosing sex work over a minimum-wage waitressing job? Nobody is calling my mate lazy...even though he brags to all and sundry about the 'easy money' he's making. In fact, they're congratulating him on a shrewd business move. Go figure.

You need to remember that your comments on personal integrity and discipline are based on YOUR ideas of what's socially/sexually acceptable and what YOU consider to be a worthwhile career or lifestyle. The women you're judging may not view things the same way.

[QUOTE=Rubber Nursey]You need to remember that your comments on personal integrity and discipline are based on YOUR ideas of what's socially/sexually acceptable and what YOU consider to be a worthwhile career or lifestyle. The women you're judging may not view things the same way.[/QUOTE]

Despite your acknowledged work with Empower, I doubt you really know much about how Thai women think. You probably have some idea about how certain Thai hookers think. But, even there, I'm sure that those involved in Empower and therefore those to whom you've had access represent a very small number compared even to those in P4P, let alone the Thai female population at large.

I'm basing my opinion in large part on what is socially acceptable in Thailand, not my personal idea. I know what Thais think about hookers.

Of course, Thais are hypicritical because on the one hand Thai men perpetuate P4P, while at the same time the culture condemns it. But, such is the nature of things in Thailand.

Making the most money in the short term at the expense of one's long term respectability is not the wisest move, especially here. It's basically a dead-end. These girls have a very short shelf-life before they are completely used up. Then what? The spiral down is a quick one.


Anyway, this discussion has strayed off my original point which was that some posters on here need to stop being all soft and gooey about these girls and instead, stick to the mantra: "Find, Fuck and Forget".

It's a well-worn discussion, but bears repeating from time to time. It seems that every newbie who gets carried away with the whole scene and succumbs to the charms of one or another bargirl needs to understand the inevitable bad ending to any kind of emotional involvement.

There have been countless stories over the years of guys utterly destroyed both emotionally and financially by these girls.

But, then again, why should I care if somebody wants to ruin his life by getting involved with a P4P girl?

[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]I'm basing my opinion in large part on what is socially acceptable in Thailand, not my personal idea. I know what Thais think about hookers.[/QUOTE]
I'm willing to bet they think the same thing ALL societies think of ALL hookers. Do you think I can write 'wh*re' on my resume?

What you said in your last few posts could apply to any hooker in any country. Check out any other thread on this board and you'll find the same conversation going on - hookers are lazy, hookers are greedy, hookers don't plan for their futures, you can take the girl out of the brothel but you can't take the brothel out of the girl, etc. What I want to know is WHY. Why is a woman who earns 10 times the average monthly wage 'taking the easy way out'? Why is it 'lazy' to choose hooking over waitressing or factory work (or marriage)? You didn't address any of my comments in your post.

I wasn't questioning your knowledge of Thai culture, but the terminology you used and your method of measuring a working girls' success in general. You wrote about a girl who 'had it all and blew it', by shunning education and 9-5 work and going back to the bar. YOU may feel that she 'had it all', but obviously SHE didn't, or she wouldn't have walked away from it, would she? All I'm saying is that your idea of 'having it all' might differ from hers. I know that I, personally, am much happier out there making my own money and my own decisions, than having a man support me financially. Maybe that particular girl was just happier working in a bar. Who are we to tell her she should be aiming higher than personal happiness?

OTH, I only ask you these questions because you're an intelligent man with an analytical mind. Your answers may come from a Thai perspective, but on subjects like this they can be applied across the board. If you don't want to answer to me, then by all means put me on ignore - but please don't play the 'You're not from Thailand' card every time I post on this thread. Contrary to popular belief, I don't live in some magical fairyland where sex workers are revered for their choice of occupation. I'm a wh*re...which means exactly the same thing in my country as it does in yours.

By the way... a comment on ex-hookers not being good girlfriend material. That's not always our fault. Often it's the *idea* of living with a sex work past, rather than the reality of it, that sabotages the relationship. Knowing your girlfriend used to work can trigger a whole lot of irrational fears and insecurities in men. If you can't look at your girlfriend without seeing a wh*re (and all the stereotypical crap that comes with it), the relationship is doomed. Unfortunately, I have very recent, first-hand experience in the damage a partner's over-active imagination can do. :(

[QUOTE=Rubber Nursey]I'm willing to bet they think the same thing ALL societies think of ALL hookers. Do you think I can write 'wh*re' on my resume?

What you said in your last few posts could apply to any hooker in any country. Check out any other thread on this board and you'll find the same conversation going on - hookers are lazy, hookers are greedy, hookers don't plan for their futures, you can take the girl out of the brothel but you can't take the brothel out of the girl, etc. What I want to know is WHY. Why is a woman who earns 10 times the average monthly wage 'taking the easy way out'? Why is it 'lazy' to choose hooking over waitressing or factory work (or marriage)? You didn't address any of my comments in your post.[/QUOTE]This is what I was talking about in my orig. Post. Who is to say this is the easy way out? How boring it must be to sit at a biergarten for 10 hours a day and wait for someone to take interest in you. Talking to man after man and being shot down many times. How is it the easy way to know you're probably end up with some overweight, unattractive farang that will want to do who knows what sexually to you? How is it easy to fear that they might hurt you physically. How is it easy to fear for your life and a std every time? How easy is it to explain this work to a potential boyfriend and move on? How easy is it to reconcile this line of work spiritually? How is it easy to know you have no marketable skills down the road.

This easy way out perception is, in my mind, the way mongers justify their view of prostitutes and disassociate themselves from any wrong doing. Doing this makes it easier not to think of them as human and to treat them with our own interests in mind. It makes us feel better about ourselves for our activity.

I believe many of the girls may do this a few times and become seduced by possibility. There is possibility of marrying a farang and having a better life. There is a possibility of using this line of work to your advantage financially and changing your future and that of those around you. I believe we are all *****s in a way. We all do things we don't like or agree with for money to a certain extent. There are few people who love their job so much they would be willing to take a pay cut. This is no different that some ambulance chasing lawyer having an ethical or moral problem with what he does and overlooking that for the reward.

[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]There have been countless stories over the years of guys utterly destroyed both emotionally and financially by these girls.?[/QUOTE]
True but there are stories of some girls being emotionally destroyed by Falangs too.
[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]
But, then again, why should I care if somebody wants to ruin his life by getting involved with a P4P girl?[/QUOTE]

You shouldn't, it’s his life, let him live it the way he chooses.

[QUOTE=Rubber Nursey]...OTH, I only ask you these questions because you're an intelligent man with an analytical mind.([/QUOTE]

Oh my goodness. I think you may be a little off there, RN. But if you're looking for a font of bigotry and resentment, you'll be more than satisfied.

Actually in fairness OTH isn't 'wrong', he's just bourgeois: all that tiresome stuff about poor people being 'lazy' or 'layabouts'. Basically all upper-working-class social climbers talk that way - they think it is the way their betters speak, or that it will please them. But as in so many things, their earnestness is their dead giveaway.

Is it only me that finds it amazing the type of games some of these thai girls play, much more so then Filipina's or Chinese ladies.

My current GF pushes here and there but does nothing too major until she feels she has a little too much power and a little too much liberty and goes over the top with comments and statements (not about money or such folks). And as she has pushed and pushed and I promptly lose my cool and tell her to bugger off but not in such nice terms and tell her exactly that she can back to her rice paddy etc..., and she can promptly go to sleep or let it rest and turn her back on the entire issue. However she wakes up the next day all sweet as can be as if nothing happened and she didn't do anything wrong or say anything wrong. Like they have a magic rewind and erase button to completely erase that moment out of their minds.

Now if I take a wrong step or overstep some bounds or if I am wrong... oh watch out for the fireworks and drama about how she wants to die and she's no good and I no love her etc..... The pulling out the knife and holding it to her chest screaming how I want her to die, throwing her phone at the wall just to smash it... the friggin drama (and expense) of arguing with a thai woman is just amazing...

The logic of a thai woman just seems completely alien to me, much worse then women from philippines and china. This is the third long time girl to pull such crap with me and I never got that from PI or China... am I just unlucky in picking the long term girls or are all thai girls like this.....