Stupid Shit in Kyiv

[QUOTE=BloodRed;2986388]Zelensky showed that in addition to being an asshole, ungrateful, disrespectful and corrupt, he also has a very low EQ.[/QUOTE][URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfqLcBwUT_E[/URL]

Zelensky tried to walk it back and appeal to the American people, but I do not think he gets that his audience now is Trump and not the American people. He seems to have believed his own press coverage and when he mentioned fighting for freedom, I am sure many Americans did not gag but I did. Do not talk to me about freedom when you have no free press, are throwing priests in jail, have no opposition parties, and no elections.

Unlike Biden and the press, Trump was not going to fall all over Zelensky with the we are not worthy praise. Trump talked to Putin. He has heard all the nasty shit about what the Ukrainians have done. Hell, Trump leaked to his friends in the media that Zelensky would never sign a peace deal, and Ukraine was likely going to have to send in new leadership who would.

Thing about Zelensky, and Trump got on him about this, was he even dressed offensively. Where is your suit asshole? Zelensky could not believe Trump was taking a middle position and not kissing his ass. Zelensky dressed like he was the most important person in the room, and he got put in his place. Zelensky thought Trump was wearing a suit for him.

When I thought about it, the Trump plan is very solid. The American people are not going to send troops in to defend Ukraine. There is nothing of importance there. The Trump plan was to develop rare earth metals in Ukraine because we need them. China has too much of a monopoly on them. We let Ukraine make some money from the production of these metals and then we have strategic assets in place we have to defend. That is the only way American troops could be involved in Ukraine, if we need them to be there.

Trump said the reason Putin would not break this deal was because Trump signed it. It sounded egotistical but I see why Trump had to say that versus spell out his plan.

In the end, Zelensky and the Democrats have nowhere to go. All they have is Putin sucks, keep fighting, and we will win, and that is why Trump will get his way in the end and win. No one else has a plan for peace other than Trump.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2986415][URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfqLcBwUT_E[/URL]

Zelensky tried to walk it back and appeal to the American people, but I do not think he gets that his audience now is Trump and not the American people. He seems to have believed his own press coverage and when he mentioned fighting for freedom, I am sure many Americans did not gag but I did. [b]Do not talk to me about freedom when you have no free press, are throwing priests in jail, have no opposition parties, and no elections.[/b][/QUOTE]-- that parroting other people's lies still makes him a liar?

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2986392]No, Zelensky showed he has balls to resist to robber, but small size, crazy shameful Trump who tries to fuck Ukraine. My big respect and support to Ukraine which support Zelensky about war and when he is legal according to Ukraine constitution. Ukrainians can be proud to resist to dictator Putin and so shameful Trump who just tries to rob them.[/QUOTE]Here is a conversation among two real journalists: Walter Kirn: The crazy thing about that is that at least at one point, Zelensky claimed that he was only getting half of what they were telling us they were sending. Okay? He also, as I mentioned last week, there seems to be some real leakage on that money, because a lot of it is ending up in places like Czechoslovakia, in the form of very nice cars and private schools for Ukrainians who are not part of the war. And so-.

Matt Taibbi: I can't even tell you the different places that I've found money that's supposed to have gone to Ukraine. I mean, I found in Mexico. But anyway, go ahead.

Walter Kirn: So here's Ukraine having to pay us back with real wealth, real goods, minerals, for money that in some ways it didn't receive the benefit of in the first place.

And another excerpt: Walter Kirn: And in those halls, screwing Americans, having lived in Europe and having gone to Oxford, in those halls, screwing Americans is kind of a divine right. In the same way you have the right to treat your dog, or any other lesser being, somewhat according to your whims and will.

So Trump seems immune to the romance of Europe. He doesn't give a rip about their supposed high cultural authority. And what he does is he looks at the bottom line. He knows a deal, a good deal and a bad deal.

And another:

Matt Taibbi: My feelings about this are a little bit accelerated because I spent the whole week while all this was going on trying to follow USAID contracting documents, some of which were perfect metaphors for this entire situation. So for instance, we would send $34 million to an American company, which in turn would send most of that money to a British contractor on the ground, which would hire local social media influencers to create posts in line with American foreign policy objectives. So it's a contracting gravy train that we mostly don't even benefit from in order to prolong a war that also doesn't really benefit the United States. And here are the British offering really nothing, getting most of the money.

And then you have the Europeans posted the same thing after the meet with Zelensky: 'Hive Mind' Globalists All Post Same X Message After Zelensky's Oval Office Humiliation. [URL]https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/hive-mind-globalists-all-post-same-x-message-after-zelenskys-oval-office-humiliation[/URL].

The conversation of Taibbi and Kern was actually before the meeting with Zelensky took place, and Taibbi added a lot of context that I had missed. Here is what he wrote:

Zelensky's much-anticipated meeting with Donald Trump and J. The. Vance Friday afternoon led to one of the weirdest Oval Office scenes in history. What started as nervous diplomacy ended as a Three Stooges pie-fight, with the black-costumed Ukrainian leader leaving as two eyeholes covered in cream.

Trump and Vance fared better, but were clearly taken by surprise. Both were expecting Zelensky to sign a deal forking over $500 million in rare earth development rights in exchange for American funding during the the last three years of war. Not until early into the photo op did they realize they'the been punked.

Zelensky's DC visit was not by invitation, or appeared not to be. "I hear that he's coming," Trump said Wednesday. "Certainly it's okay with me if he'the like to. " Trump for the rest of the week told the press it would be a "big deal" if Zelensky signed a financial settlement giving the USA Development rights. In hindsight, he might have done better to wonder why exactly Zelensky was coming.

Zelensky said, "We can't just speak about ceasefire and speak and speak. It will not work. " he mentioned that Putin had violated agreements many times before, so why trust him now? Of course, Trump was saying Putin would be making the deal with Ukraine and the United States, which is different in a thousand ways than a deal with just Ukraine. Zelensky huffed at this, effectively saying he didn't trust America (read: Trump) to hold Putin to his word.

"25 times Putin's broken cease fire," Zelensky said.

He never broke to me," snapped Trump, realizing the meeting had moved into deeper water.

From there it was obvious the two sides had fundamentally different understandings. Trump and Vance clearly saw the minerals deal as a necessary precursor to making a security deal with Putin. Zelensky meanwhile began talking as if he intended to keep fighting with or without American support. One can call that brave, but once Trump and Vance realized they'the invited a throng of international media to have Zelensky call them out on their home ice, the mood turned ugly fast.

Incidentally, it's not hard to sympathize with the idea that Zelensky must do everything possible to keep his country from being overrun. But his only shot was to play to the sympathies of American voters. He did the opposite, doing everything but micturate on the White House furniture.

Europeans really recognize that we are defending line. That's why they helped us. " At this, Trump pointed out that we have a "ocean" between us and Russia and therefore it made no sense that we were paying so much more than Europe. "No, no," Zelensky said, repeatedly denying even the idea that the USA Sent more support than Europe.

Later, Zelensky said, "You have a nice big ocean so you don't feel now, but you'll feel it in the future. " This was Zelensky's faux-soldier act amped to 11, warning about a threat whose gravity only a war-torn hero could understand, invoking the specter of Russia invading the United States.

At this, Trump blew his top. It was a combination of everything: Zelensky continually talking over him and Vance, claiming he was defending Europe and the United States, saying Trump's word was worthless, and acting like he was doing something other than showing up for the umpteenth time to beg more billions out of the American taxpayer, only this time selling himself with rudeness instead of cloying theatrics.

A reporter previously asked if he owned a suit and what the fuck, why did he come to the White House dressed this way? That seemed gratuitous at the time. Now, with his pleas about seriousness, not so much. The exchange got more heated when Vance jumped in, asking if Zelensky had said thank you. Zelensky responded by telling Vance he was wrong if he thought he could win an argument by "speaking wery loudly about the war. ".

Trump verbally stepped in front of Vance, as if ready to throw on his behalf. It was the kind of thing you expect to see at last call of a Midwestern hotel bar, not the White House. "he's not speaking loudly," Trump shouted. "he's not speaking loudly. Your country is in big trouble. ".

Zelensky asked for a minute to speak. Trump said no, because "you've done a lot of talking," and laid into him.

We don't often get to see pure presidential rage in public, but Trump now gave it to Zelensky with both barrels with cameras rolling, yelling over him as he tried to mumble in protest. "You're not winning. You're not winning this. You have a damn good chance of coming out, okay? Because of us. ".

Incredibly, Zelensky used the next pause to up the ante yet again.

"Mr. President, we are staying in our country staying strong," he said. "From the very beginning of the war, we've been alone. ".

Alone? "You haven't been alone!" Trump shouted. "We gave you, through this stupid president, 350 billion you your military equipment and you met a brave, but they had to use our military. If you didn't have our military equipment you invited, if you didn't have our military equipment, this war would've been over in two weeks!

"In three days," Zelensky quipped. "I heard it from Putin. In three days. ".

In this peak-lunacy moment of the visit, Zelensky showed that whatever else one might think of him, he sure has big brass ones. It takes a special type of person to show up uninvited to the White House and accuse the president of being Putin's * in the middle of demanding continued billions from him in military support.

Trump now backed off and composed himself long enough to try to sum up the scene. "I think it's good for the American people to see what's going on," pointing out that Zelensky was refusing a cease-fire, and it's now going to be hard to get a deal done, because "the attitudes have to change. ".

Whether on his own or at the behest of all those Macrons and Harrises and Kristerssons who had statements of support ready for the media this afternoon, Zelensky through his gauntlet-throwing perfomance essentially dared Trump to walk away from Ukraine and NATO. Anyone who thinks he won't do it is delusional. I get the sense there are European officials who still doubt it. Talk about sitting on bad cards. This was going all in with nothing at all.

Once again, neoliberal bureaucrats seem bent on snatching needless war and misery from the jaws of resolution. What a development! Things are likely to fall apart quickly.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2986344]Nah, you need to watch the whole thing here: [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_YtXWVfkJE[/URL].

There are clips not showing the whole thing.

Things were going well. I could see the goal of Trump was to inform but to present a united front that progress is being made, and things were going smoothly. A reporter asked Trump whose side he was on. Trump was honest. He said that Zelensky hated Biden and vice versa which is true. He then pivoted and said he was on the side of peace and therefore was aligned with peace and the world. All JD Vance did was blast the notion of war and say that all Biden was doing was talking tough when people were dying and advocated for diplomacy. It was not personal towards Zelensky at all.

Zelensky was upset that he was being criticized. You can see Zelensky's body language. At first, he is leaning in towards Vance. Then when Vance responds, Zelensky immediately folds his arms and closes him off. The body language alone told the story. What Zelnsky was doing was going over all the times Putin has broken prior agreements. It showed me that Zelensky was not serious about a cease fire.

Where Zelensky really lost it was he reminded me of a drunk asking for a handout who said, "Well, you may be feeling better now but just wait in the future, your will feel badly too and you will need a handout. " And Trump just destroyed Zelensky when he made that comment, and Vance ripped Zelensky then for a complete lack of gratitude.

If I were on the front lines in Ukraine, I would be furious to see Zelensky mocking diplomacy. They showed a Ukrainian reporter with her hand over her head hiding her embarrassment. I think Zelensky's performance will be received horribly in Ukraine. Lindsay Grahm was a big Zelensky supporter and he pulled the plug after Zelensky's performance.

Now I know why Trump was keeping Zelensky out of the negotiations and just dealing with Putin as Zelensky was not interested in a cease fire. IMO he is out of touch with the Ukrainian soldier and the American tax payer. Trump booted him to the curb and told him come back when you are really ready to make a deal, but Zelensky needs to understand that means weeks not forever.

Zelensky acted like a thin skinned dictator not getting his way. If he is not willing to negotiate then I think we need to make our aid contingent about Ukraine restoring elections, a free press, and restoring opposition parties. I really doubt that Zelensky is representing his country right now. He looks like he is out for himself.[/QUOTE]OK Elvis, Maybe this is a first. I watched the whole video, and have, to an extent, changed my mind. Here is where the various individuals fucked up. I'll omit Trump's gaffes from the list. He's an old man and not on top of things 100%, so like Biden I won't hold him responsible for his fuckups.

Zelensky's enthusiasm for peace was lacking. For example, he said he still wants Russia to withdraw from occupied lands. He wants sufficient assurances to be reasonably sure Russia won't try this again. He characterized Putin as a killer. He said he wants the Europeans to hand over $300 billion in Russian sovereign assets to Ukraine for rebuilding. He doesn't want a cease fire before locking down terms of a long term deal. If he and Ukraine stick to these positions, the war will probably go on until Ukraine loses.

Zelensky should have addressed questions through a translator. Vance was able to railroad him because his English isn't anywhere close to 100%. Zelensky fucked up by asking Vance a question near the end of the press conference, which gave Vance the opportunity to unload.

Given that Zelensky and Trump weren't on the same page on many issues, they shouldn't have held an hour long press conference. Maybe a few minutes, tops. The press was part of the problem. One reporter said something like "President Zelensky just said he won't compromise. " Reviewing the video, I don't think he said any such thing. Another reporter pointed out that Zelensky was shaking his head when President Trump was talking about security guarantees. He might have been, but he probably didn't fully understand what Trump was saying.

Zelensky should have sucked up his pride and not disagreed with Trump or Vance. When Trump said the USA spent lots more on Ukraine than Russia, Zelensky should have just smiled. Or said Ukraine was very grateful for help from both the USA and Europe, instead of pointing out the USA hadn't spent more. If I understood him correctly, Zelensky told Trump that he (Trump) may share Putin's view that Ukraine is not a real country. Like Vance, he didn't know when to keep his mouth shut, when to put his pride aside. I'm reminded of the great Ghetto Philosopher, Marcellus Wallace. If Bruce Willis had listened to him, three people wouldn't have died. And Marcellus and Willis wouldn't have gotten butt fucked.

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1q2PitIM9w[/URL]

I cannot think of one time Taibbi or Glenn Greenwald have led me wrong. At this point, I am willing to declare the whole Ukraine war is another Russiagate, the demonization of Putin with Europeans and Democrats stuffing their pockets all while blasting Putin. And I am sick to death of the narrative of something so "evil" like Covid or Putin that if you even question the trillions of dollars being spent on said bogeyman, you are flirting with the devil.

In the case of Covid, it was the fucker Fauci who created Covid and in this case IMO, it was the fuckers at NATO who wanted and goaded Putin into war. The very people demanding our money for safety are what unleashed the great evil to begin with.

If you do not get by now that Putin and Russia want peace and the leadership in Ukraine and Europe do not, you are sleeping under a rock. This is the second attempt at ending the war Ukraine or Europe has destroyed.

When VP Vance went to Europe and blasted the leaders for censorship and rigging elections, it went over like a fart in church. The arrogant Europeans responded like how dare you tell us what to do and at this point, I think it is time for the USA to respond in kind.

Russiagate was an attempt to destroy the Trump presidency, and it had its origins in Europe. As Taibbi and Kern pointed out, the American media world is not own and run by Americans but by foreigners with their own agenda.

I was told on this forum what Europeans think. I am so sick of that. When in the world has the always arrogant European given a fuck what an American thought about anything?

Given the grifters in Europe and NATO, given the attempt at manipulating our government with Russiagate and Ukrainegate, given the destruction of the free press, given the absolute rigging of elections in Europe like with Romania or no elections with Ukraine, given the huge contributions we have given to Europe with little in return, and given the socialist nature of much of Europe, why should Americans even care about Europe?

Given the miniscule tax rate and debt of Russia, maybe if Putin took over Europe it would not be such a bad thing. Putin has done a much better job of balancing his nation's check book than European leaders have.

But I want us out of NATO and out of Europe, and I think Trump wants us out too. It is a bad deal. I could not believe this asshole Zelensky coming forward saying he was fighting to protect the USA from Russia. Fuck him and fuck Europe.

[QUOTE=BloodRed;2986388]Zelensky showed that in addition to being an asshole, ungrateful, disrespectful and corrupt, he also has a very low EQ.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2986383]I understand why propacondoms are saying what they're saying, but why grownups who watched this disaster can't wrap their minds around the fact that the whole spectacle had been carefully rehearsed and that Zelensky just walked into a well-planned ambush? It so easy.

There is simply no other explanation except Trump being a Russian asset.

None.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Questner;2986362]'
The US can impose sanctions on the Ukrainian regime and start supplying the RF, right? At least there is a talk or resuming direct flights.

As for today's shit show we have a proverb that can be applied to the bastard wretched clown, roughly translated as followed: 'You have pooped your pants, now observe the shit flowing down'.[/QUOTE]It was indeed a shit show. I'd say all the participants pooped their pants.

I just want to see this over. Ukrainian and Russian men can stop dying. Ukraine's economy can return to normal. And Russians will be able to get Schengen visas again and use Visa and Mastercards when traveling. Europeans can buy cheap, CLEAN BURNING Russian natural gas instead of burning more coal. The sooner that happens, the better.

I'm fearful that without Trump's involvement, Ukraine, the Europeans and the Russians will draw this out longer than need be.

Did you ever consider Putin should pay a price for his atrocities? Or would you just prefer to be on good business terms with any warlord in the workd?

That was one of the most disgraceful and embarrassing displays of American "diplomacy" I have ever seen in my life. And Vance has the nerve to talk about being disrespectful as he goes on lecturing to our allies about what it means to live in a democracy? At the same time he suckles at the scrotum sack of an asshole who tried to overturn a democratically held and free election in what at least used to be the world's leading democracy. That is until these motherfuckers and their sycophants took charge. Every time I think the United States can't sink any lower under Trump I'm proven wrong! To let that man come to America then to berate him in public like that! You don't want to call the aggressor Putin names because that won't promote peace, but calling Zelensky names will? Ukraine already tried diplomacy with Russia and it didn't work. The man is fighting for the sovereignty of his country! He needs some guarantees to make sure if the lying Russians attack again then Ukraine can and will be defended against future aggression. Is that so unreasonable? This is no longer a democracy we have in America. No, what we now have is an "idiocracy". Ashamed to be an American right now due to the lunacy on display in the White House! On this and other topics I won't go into. I ordinarily would not post about politics while on a mongering trip, but that spectacle I witnessed was extraordinarily shameful!

I want everyone and everything to end. That's what I want. This world is hell. I never asked to be born and I don't have the guts to kill myself, I just want everything to end.

[QUOTE=TeFab456;2986603]Did you ever consider Putin should pay a price for his atrocities? Or would you just prefer to be on good business terms with any warlord in the workd?[/QUOTE]The Polish political leadership is right up there with the rest of Europe. I found an article where some Polish people were interviewed, and they were very skeptical of the Ukraine good, Russia bad narrative. The Ukrainians undertook a massive and bloody campaign against the Poles in World War 2, and Ukrainian leaders have routinely said that part of Poland belongs to Ukraine.

Outside of Tucker Carlson interviewing Putin, you hear nothing from the Russian side. And when I listen to Matt Taibbi, a reporter I trust, go off on how crazy the Western media is when it comes to Russia, I am even more skeptical of things.

Thing I feel pretty safe in saying then is if you hold Putin accountable for atrocities, he is going to throw it right back in your face and say what about Ukrainian atrocities?

And in the end, we are back to the Putin bashing, and we know Europe and Zelnsky both want continued war, and they are using Putin bashing as the tactic to continue the fight. I have asked this a dozen times to Putin bashers, how do you achieve peace without Putin? There is never an answer.

Putin said there was a deal in place and Boris Johnson scuttled it, and I never heard that until Putin brought it up, and it was true. Trump had a deal in place and Zelensky comes in uninvited, and Trump is okay with that as he thinks Zelensky is going to sign the deal, but no, Zelensky does more Putin bashing.

So I am done with you Putin bashers. Putin and Russia want peace, and you Putin bashers do not, and I am totally uninterested in our providing any more financial or emotional support for Ukraine, and I am sure I am not alone.

If Europe wants this war so damned much, then they can fight Putin on their own and if you hate Putin so much, I am sure the Ukrainian army has a place for you.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2986589]Like Vance, he didn't know when to keep his mouth shut, when to put his pride aside. I'm reminded of the great Ghetto Philosopher, Marcellus Wallace. If Bruce Willis had listened to him, three people wouldn't have died. And Marcellus and Willis wouldn't have gotten butt fucked.[/QUOTE]Aside from your clearly misleading narrative (the fact that Vance INTENTIONALLY and repeatedly provoked Zelensky is clear as day if you really watched the video), what you're basically saying is that Zelensky should've thrown the fight to Putin. There is no other way to read your Pulp Fiction allusion.

What a humanitarian you are.

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SkW1JnYnas[/URL]

Given the trajectory at the front, the POTUS should act fast to prevent a possible outcome of the collapse of the AFU, that is the direct conflict in Europe. He should learn from the marxist axiom, 'Yesterday it was too soon, tomorrow it will be late'.

It's still unclear to me in the context of the latest visit, why Mr. Putin is said to renege on the ceasefire agreements? On the contrary, he keeps his word. The position of the RF in the period before the SMO always was that Russia is not part of the conflict between Ukrainian government in Kiev and Donbass. This position was repeated in 2021 during the meeting with P. Biden: the only connection was the signature under Minsk agreements. Recall, in autumn of 2021 the Ukrainian government was parading its position not to implement those agreements and choose Plan be, that is the forceful solution to the conflict. It was that time when the US and EU flooded the country with weaponry and financial support.

[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements[/URL]

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2986594]It was indeed a shit show. I'd say all the participants pooped their pants.

I just want to see this over. Ukrainian and Russian men can stop dying. Ukraine's economy can return to normal. And Russians will be able to get Schengen visas again and use Visa and Mastercards when traveling. Europeans can buy cheap, CLEAN BURNING Russian natural gas instead of burning more coal. The sooner that happens, the better.[/QUOTE]Gee, Tiny, be careful, you only have one heart. Stop worrying about Europeans, at least. They aren't using more coal than before. The US exported LNG has replaced Russian gas, and solar panels have replaced coal. Sure they still have issues, but one issue they don't seem to have anymore is their total dependence on Russian Failed Fascist Mafia State.

[QUOTE]The energy appeared cheap, but it exposed us to blackmail, Ursula von der Leyen, president of the European Commission, the European Unions executive arm, told the World Economic Forum last month.[/QUOTE][URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/03/business/ukraine-russia-energy-europe.html[/URL]

Sleep well tonight.

[URL]https://www.facebook.com/100041809329735/videos/621417363940781[/URL]

'Naff said.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2986646]The Polish political leadership is right up there with the rest of Europe. I found an article where some Polish people were interviewed, and they were very skeptical of the Ukraine good, Russia bad narrative. The Ukrainians undertook a massive and bloody campaign against the Poles in World War 2, and Ukrainian leaders have routinely said that part of Poland belongs to Ukraine.

Outside of Tucker Carlson interviewing Putin, you hear nothing from the Russian side. And when I listen to Matt Taibbi, a reporter I trust, go off on how crazy the Western media is when it comes to Russia, I am even more skeptical of things.

Thing I feel pretty safe in saying then is if you hold Putin accountable for atrocities, he is going to throw it right back in your face and say what about Ukrainian atrocities?[/QUOTE]What about them? You have any facts you'd like to discuss? Any specifics? Anything? Shoot.

And what's stopping you from listening to the Russian side? Seriously, you've got your Tucker, you've got your Questner, you've got your RedBlood, you've got your RT and Sputnik if everything else fails for some reasons. Finally, you've had all Russian sources on the web you can translate with one mouse click.

I mean all those mouthpieces will feed you enough Russian lies to last a lifetime. What are you whining about?