Bangkok Reports

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2049772]Really? And at what point do you suppose the bars themselves will accept this new, more favored trend among their customers and stop presenting themselves as places to come in for a drink, hopefully leading to you barfining someone and getting laid? When can I expect NO server or mamasan in a go-go bar to approach me on the purchase of at least the second if not the first Lady Drink to ask if I would like to barfine this young lady or that one or that one and fuck her tonight, a move that occurs in virtually every go-go bar I have been in right up to last night? When will they celebrate this new desirable development that their most prized customer base (Asians, you say) aren't there to get laid but only to buy expensive Lady Drinks and have a few laughs by openly announcing with a sign or something that the agency Coyotes standing outside this bar won't be going to your room with you for sex but are instead only there for you to "party" with in the bar? As of last night, they seem to me to be trying very hard to keep that new, more favored offering a secret. And shouldn't that sign be written in English, Japanese and Korean?

I realize the go-go bars are getting hit pretty hard with online apps competing for much cheaper and often less hassle-filled and more rewarding sexual liaisons than most bars offer. But I had no idea so many of those go-go bars I have been going to of late have given up the ghost and now consider themselves lounges for men to relax, have a drink or ten with a few unnecessarily scantily clad hostesses and chat up world affairs, nothing to do with having sex with their hostesses. I wonder why so many of them still seem intent upon making me think I can take one or more of their hostesses for a romp in the sack? Or, at least, that is still the very strong impression they are trying to make upon me from the moment I approach the front door. Not just the bar management and server staff, but the girls themselves, too. I will pay more attention to see if that strongly implied message is different for the Asians passing by.[/QUOTE]Mate. You are a very closed minded if you think that many bars are not trying to move to this business style. For example Cowboy 2, the rest of the Arab bars, and many G clubs all over Bangkok cater to this business style and make a lot of money. In these places, an intimate rendezvous with one of their ladies will come down to YMMV and how good your game and pocket book is. But to say that this business model is not a popular one, is only lieing to yourself. There will always be both so just decide where you want to go and leave it at that.

[QUOTE=Bkkdog;2049790]Mate. You are a very closed minded if you think that many bars are not trying to move to this business style. For example Cowboy 2, the rest of the Arab bars, and many G clubs all over Bangkok cater to this business style and make a lot of money. In these places, an intimate rendezvous with one of their ladies will come down to YMMV and how good your game and pocket book is. But to say that this business model is not a popular one, is only lieing to yourself. There will always be both so just decide where you want to go and leave it at that.[/QUOTE]Cowboy 2 Go-Go Bar and the Arab bars have been that way for years. But, no, I have not seen many other bars on either side of them on Soi Cowboy or in Nana Plaza moving away from the "buy a Lady Drink and get laid" business model.

BTW, what would "closed mindedness" have to do with it? I can't remember a time when I didn't get requested to barfine a girl in a go-go bar to take home and fuck after the first or second Lady Drink, if not before the first Lady Drink. On the other hand, I have yet to hear anyone working at a bar or standing outside a bar openly tout the more "popular" alternative of buying as many Lady Drinks as your wallet will bear but this girl has been specifically hired not to go have sex with you, isn't that great. So modern.

I'm not saying Cowboy 2 Go-Go Bar is not in that business or the Arab bars. I'm just saying they don't seem to be as proud of leading the way on that "popular" trend of the future some of us old closed minded fuddy duddies haven't fully embraced yet as you make it sound they ought to be. They still appear very much to want me (and, I dare say, the Asian guys standing or sitting around me) to assume their business model is the tired old "buy a Lady Drink and get laid" one.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2049796]Cowboy 2 Go-Go Bar and the Arab bars have been that way for years. But, no, I have not seen many other bars on either side of them on Soi Cowboy or in Nana Plaza moving away from the "buy a Lady Drink and get laid" business model.

BTW, what would "closed mindedness" have to do with it? I can't remember a time when I didn't get requested to barfine a girl in a go-go bar to take home and fuck after the first or second Lady Drink, if not before the first Lady Drink. On the other hand, I have yet to hear anyone working at a bar or standing outside a bar openly tout the more "popular" alternative of buying as many Lady Drinks as your wallet will bear but this girl has been specifically hired not to go have sex with you, isn't that great. So modern.

I'm not saying Cowboy 2 Go-Go Bar is not in that business or the Arab bars. I'm just saying they don't seem to be as proud of leading the way on that "popular" trend of the future some of us old closed minded fuddy duddies haven't fully embraced yet as you make it sound they ought to be. They still appear very much to want me (and, I dare say, the Asian guys standing or sitting around me) to assume their business model is the tired old "buy a Lady Drink and get laid" one.[/QUOTE]Old fuddy duddy as you put it and not me is not the issue. There are many more places to monger in Bangkok other than Soi Cowboy and Nana so if you are only referring to these areas then you are more closed minded than I thought. Cheers.

[QUOTE=Bkkdog;2049803]Old fuddy duddy as you put it and not me is not the issue. There are many more places to monger in Bangkok other than Soi Cowboy and Nana so if you are only referring to these areas then you are more closed minded than I thought. Cheers.[/QUOTE]I was only talking about the Bkk go-go bar scene in response to GrandaddyPerp's comments about "agogos", not the massage shops where there is no sex offered at all, not the G-Clubs, not the discos, not the wine shops, not the lounges, not the soapies, not the oilies, not the restaurants, malls and movie theaters where you can meet non P4 P girls to fuck before midnight, not the dating sites and booty call apps, not the escort services, the blowjob bars, the hand job only shops, etc.

But wondering; why would you chime in to engage in another weird exercise in clumsy, old fashioned, pointless one-upmanship without actually reading the posts first?

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2049811]I was only talking about the Bkk go-go bar scene in response to GrandaddyPerp's comments about "agogos", not the massage shops where there is no sex offered at all, not the G-Clubs, not the discos, not the wine shops, not the lounges, not the soapies, not the oilies, not the restaurants, malls and movie theaters where you can meet non P4 P girls to fuck before midnight, not the dating sites and booty call apps, not the escort services, the blowjob bars, the hand job only shops, etc.

But wondering; why would you chime in to engage in another weird exercise in clumsy, old fashioned, pointless one-upmanship without actually reading the posts first?[/QUOTE]There are other go go bars in Bangkok. But you win you old fuddy duddy. LOL.

[QUOTE=GrandaddyPerp;2049710]Look mate I get this is what you and others may want but its no longer the reality. A little while back, Asian customers started to flock to Thailand and they have slowly become the dominant customer base, and from the bar and girl's perspective the majority prefer them over farangs. The model you speak of, the bars being just a place for the service providers to work and meet customers, is fading. They can do this online now and reach a much wider audience.

The current model at more and more agogos is more of a lounge style where drinking and partying with a girl in the bar is a large part of the experience. I am guessing the bar encourages this by pushing their ladies to do their best to service the customers who want to have a good time. This has resulted in the type that will ditch a guy if he doesn't appear to be someone out to have a few drinks first.

The increase in agency coyote girls is also a sign that this model is more favored. Many of these ladies, especially the best looking ones, are able to get a nice base salary plus drink commissions which can often net them 6 figures per month. Look for this trend to continue until these bars are nothing more than non-P4P hostess lounges.[/QUOTE]You are correct. It's over. And the fun times are not coming back. If you want fun, go to a place that does not attract tourists. Jakarta is one.

[QUOTE=Bkkdog;2049826]There are other go go bars in Bangkok. But you win you old fuddy duddy. LOL.[/QUOTE]LOL. Ok, I'm interested in hearing about them. But this is the primary point made by GrandaddyPerp to which I was responding:

"Look mate I get this is what you and others may want but its no longer the reality.
-snip-
The current model at more and more agogos is more of a lounge style where drinking and partying with a girl in the bar is a large part of the experience.
-snip-
Look for this trend to continue until these bars are nothing more than non-P4P hostess lounges. "

I know of several go-go bars in Bangkok that have either newly opened or re-opened with new owners and new names over the past couple of years. Every one of those that I have been in are just fine adhering to the "buy a Lady Drink and get laid" business model and none of them are following the model GrandaddyPerp said more and more of them are moving to. Do you know which old, new or re-opened and re-named Bangkok go-go bars have moved to that business model and rejected that fuddy duddy old one in the past 2-3 years? Which ones?

The fact that some are bad at providing the old model and are up against more competition than ever before doesn't count. Where have they moved into the new model and abandoned the previous one?

Let's say the Arab bars are following that new drinking lounge chit chat model. You seemed to be saying they did. I don't know. Whenever I have peeked into one of those Arab bars, it always appears to me there are only 2-3 newbies in there who got suckered into entering by the unavailable Coyotes stationed outside. Are any two Arab bars generating more income than, say, Crazy House, Baccara, Billboard, Twisters, et al, all of which are most definitely not lounges of the kind described?

Have the go-go bars in Saphan Khwai gone the drinking lounge route and abandoned the previous model? Where are all these Bkk go-go bars that are "more and more" moving toward the style that I was replying to? I can see that there might be some new ones popping up here and there to see how it goes. But more and more of the previous and current go-go bars moving in that direction? I don't see that happening now or recently. If they have moved in that direction, somebody better tell the mamasans, servers and the girls working there because they don't seem to know it happened and all of them are working mightily to keep us customers from thinking it happened too.

Thanks all for helping out on the to do's for Bangkok.

Here's a summary of my layover. VOA (It's going to get difficult if a flight lands from India as the queue is going to be huge. Luckily I was flying in from Vietnam so very few people in the queue. I looked out for a person who seemed more customer friendly at the desk and guess my decision was right. Sometime these immigration people can get difficult. I gave my passport and also my boarding pass. She asked me why you visit Bangkok and I said I have been to other countries in Asia except this Bangkok and would like to see it even though for a shot while.No questions asked 1000 Bht and got the token #. But they do ask for hotel that you are staying. So always get a hotel booking done for ease.

Got out after getting the passport stamped and through immigration. Decided to take a taxi and head towards the hotel. On the way I asked the taxi about Terminal 21 as I had heard about the Beer BJ's there.

It is in Sukhumvit. So anyone not knowing where to start may want to go to Terminal 21 and then look out from there. Plenty of Massage Parlours. Beer joints.

I had the hotel right in the Suk. 19 street. Went in connected to wireless and looked out for Soms Haven and Dr DJ's bar. They were pretty close so got the map pic captured and headed out. I am very bad at reading maps so it took me 30 minutes and I was getting nowhere. No net connection so I went back to the hotel and figured out to get there. I could see a few guys looking at the phones for addresses so it's not easy if you are a first timer. Better to write down locations in details if you don't have net connection.

Som's Haven is right opposite Terminal 21 . Cross the overbridge and it's Suk 14 . There were plenty of other massage places too but headed to Soms directly. It was around 5 . One girl took me in and I thought she was the mamasan but she told me she will take care of me. I said no will look out and then decide. The girls here are not too pushy. So drank a beer settled down for sometime and then went out to choose a girl. Picked one and the rates were 700 only BJ, 1200 BJ+FS but in a sofa room and 1700 BJ + FS in a bigger room with bed.

Well I took 1700 as I didn't want to miss out. The lady gets you showered and then then she showers too. I found that good hygeine.

Lovely BJ and a session to follow. These girls stay with you chatting as long as the 1 HR is not over if you want to do that.

Was out in like 1. 2 hours and then walked down to check the address for Dr BJ's bar but couldn't find it. There are plenty of bars and massage places in the particular street but couldn't find this one.

When I was walking -- a guy came and showed me a booklet of a massage parlour and said 5 minutes from here. Didn't go but I realized that most or every of the taxi drivers or the Tuk Tuk drivers are carrying these pamplets.

The street was getting ready for the night. Lots of shops selling kinky stuff on the roadside. And the traffic was getting heavy so decided to leave. Took a taxi and he said 300 bht and we go through the highway. OK zipped through in 30 minutes or less to the airport (His meter was showing 240 and he paid 25 for the toll) so overall it was OK.

It comes down to how the 3 revenue streams, customer drinks, lady drinks and bar fines are managed. Hiring young agency girls who produce little in bar fines can work if they manage to entice in enough customers to significantly increase the lady drink take where margins are I'm guessing around 90%.

Problem with this model while it may be popular with some Asian customers, it's not to get you much by way of repeat business in Cowboy or Nana. So this takes you to the makeup of your customer base, is it the passing tourist trade or a lot of regulars. If the former makes up 70% or higher then concentrating on lady drinks may be more profitable otherwise one would imagine the old model works best. CH is an obvious example where this is the case. Personally I am surprised coyote agency girl bars are successful. I agree hostess high end bars work but not as go go's.

As to the conversation on experiences with go go girls it seems to me from reading the posts some members invariably enjoy themselves while others constantly complain. Same girls, different outcomes. Why?

Personally I feel it's so important before leaving to have established a rapport with the girl and to agree on level of service and timing. That not always I admit but usually works just fine for me.

[QUOTE=Always09;2049836]
When I was walking -- a guy came and showed me a booklet of a massage parlour and said 5 minutes from here. Didn't go but I realized that most or every of the taxi drivers or the Tuk Tuk drivers are carrying these pamplets.
[/QUOTE]Yeh experienced mongers never pay attention to those guys. They quite likely would take you to some dump that is not the place in the glossy pamphlet. Who knows? They want their commission kick back for taking you there so you won't get a good price.

[QUOTE=Smoothy;2049724]While Indians, Blacks and Arabs get the "members only" treatment in some bars because of the generality that those types of individuals are either cheap or trouble, this is one curse for being a white guy. Many girls are scared to go with a white guy thinking he will have a big dick. I find it to be more of a problem in Indonesian than in Thailand, but it can also be a problem in Thailand on occasion. I have an extremely small dick, but the girls never believe it since I am white. At least in you guy's case where you actually have a big dick, it makes some sense. It's sad when you have a tiny dick and the girls are telling you they don't want to go with you because they think your dick is too big.[/QUOTE]Just offer to take her to the toilet, flop it out and prove otherwise. LOL Have met the odd girl that wanted to check out the size first before agreeing to go. Especially happens with girls experiencing pussy pain.

With some girls, no amount of "I go so slow and gentle" washes with them. They just remain very unkeen. I don't want a stiff legged star-fish so no point in forcing the issue. Better to know in advance and save wasting my money. Fortunately a couple of my regular girls state that they prefer big dicks as have got used to Farangs since many years ago. Others do not prefer it but tolerate it. To be very average sized would be definitely an advantage overall I think.

One Italian guy I knew was such a nice guy but he experienced so many knock backs with girls describing him as hung like a bottle of coke. No need for anyone to be jealous of his size at all. Just a huge nuisance for him. He had better luck with older western girls.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2049512]Yes, it is a bar. But the draw to a Bangkok go-go bar isn't to get top shelf cocktails at a reasonable price, to look at pretty ladies or to marvel at the latest dance trends. It is to get laid. [/QUOTE]You purpose might be to get laid. For many others, not the case. Some are trying to find an exciting girl that will put them into the mood. Some are not.

Some of the customers have no intention to bar fine any girl any time they go to bar, as an example. I might have no intention to get laid initially, but a hot girl maybe capable of changing my mind. Other times I am horny and definitely looking for a lay. However I note that probably 75% of Crazy House customers leave without barfining a girl. Wild estimate not based on anything solid.

If I can't get the best girl in the bar to my taste, for one reason or another (e.g. busy with another customer), it is unlikely I will fall back to a lesser standard choice. So plenty of times I went to see Palm, the 10 point Coyote, at Mercury, I left the bar without a fuck. Sometimes I was disappointed because she already had a customer hogging her time. Sometimes she wa just not there. Possibly all of her customers hoped for a miracle and that they might eventually do her. LOL Don't know if any were successful. I compared notes with another guy who saw her regular but had never managed to fuck her. Most other Coyotes at Mercury could be fucked and I did do one or two. However they were a standard below Palm for looks.

Just sitting and cuddling a stunning girl is still worthwhile for some of us guys, even if cannot get the dick in. That is why hostess lounges can work.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;2049849]Just offer to take her to the toilet, flop it out and prove otherwise. LOL.[/QUOTE]I've tried that many times. I'm always flaccid in the bar though. Often, they seem to think it will grow to a huge size once it gets hard and are still scared. I have had it work a couple of times though where they agreed once they saw it. And once I do get one girl in the bar to go with me, word gets around that my dick is as small as an Asian's, and from that point on every girl in the bar will happily go with me after that. Anyone who thinks having a big dick in a P4 P environment is fooling themselves. I agree though that it's a big advantage if going with the older western women, or even the younger western women for free.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2049832]
I know of several go-go bars in Bangkok that have either newly opened or re-opened with new owners and new names over the past couple of years. Every one of those that I have been in are just fine adhering to the "buy a Lady Drink and get laid" business model and none of them are following the model GrandaddyPerp said more and more of them are moving to. Do you know which old, new or re-opened and re-named Bangkok go-go bars have moved to that business model and rejected that fuddy duddy old one in the past 2-3 years? Which ones?

The fact that some are bad at providing the old model and are up against more competition than ever before doesn't count. Where have they moved into the new model and abandoned the previous one?

Let's say the Arab bars are following that new drinking lounge chit chat model. You seemed to be saying they did. I don't know. Whenever I have peeked into one of those Arab bars, it always appears to me there are only 2-3 newbies in there who got suckered into entering by the unavailable Coyotes stationed outside. Are any two Arab bars generating more income than, say, Crazy House, Baccara, Billboard, Twisters, et al, all of which are most definitely not lounges of the kind described?[/QUOTE]I have been so fortunate (or unfortunate. Whatever way you look at it) to come close to a couple of bar owners in Bangkok. They all want to earn money, but it is my understanding from these two in question that a professional and detailed "business plan" is just not part of their mindset. Both these owners are Thai people and it might be a different story for falang owners. Sure they care on how they can adjust the music, the ambience, their price policy etc. But most of all they are concerned about their dancing girls. They are obsessed with rules and regulation on how to "cut salary" for the girls showing up too late, using phones, stay in wardrobe too long etc. But they also care for their staff; many of girls have a very close and loving relationship with the owner. I guess the problem for a go-go bar owner is that the visitors are so different. Especially in places with a good mix of people from all parts of the world and also a variety in age it is obvious that a bar need to have all sorts of girls. Not all men like skinny girls, so they need some big girls as well etc. I sometime ask myself why obviously ugly girls can continue work in a go-go year after year. The reply I get is that there is some sort of loyalty that goes both way. A good owner will not sack a girl that has been working hard for her bar for many years. This is of course decent. But for a bar it is also a dangerous path. After all, the number one success factor for a bar is beautiful girls. I also think it is not relevant to bring in "The Arab" in this discussion. His bars are obviously a cover up for some other type of activity, so it does not count. I never set my foot in his bars. As long as you run a go-go bar you really do not care if customers perceive it as a "drinking lounge" or a place for barfine. You need to find ways to cater to both and to make sure you can make some money out of both "models".

[QUOTE=Syzygies;2049844]Yeh experienced mongers never pay attention to those guys. They quite likely would take you to some dump that is not the place in the glossy pamphlet. Who knows? They want their commission kick back for taking you there so you won't get a good price.[/QUOTE]I first encountered the Tuk Tuk gents with the brochures back in 1996,I can still recall the brochure as it had prices listed, some of the prices had been corrected with a little white sticker over the top (I can't recall the prices) I was still a little green and took up the offer. It was a rainy hot night in Bangkok and I had just come out of one of the Go Go bars in Patpong and was horny as hell. I didn't need much of sales pitch as my dick was was ready to go after getting some serious attention in said Go Go bar. The driver took me to Ceasers. It was one of the finest 1. 5 hours I've had in my life. Everything was on offer and I got involved. A total PSE with cuddling and GFE at the end. This is when I saw the light. I remember giving the sweet thing 200 BHT tip and leaving 50 BHT for the maid (can't recall the price for the experience) and was made to feel like I was a big spender. I walked out if that place feeling like a King. The Tuk Tuk driver was waiting for me and took me back to my hotel. I asked him did he get commission and he said yes, but would have to go back and get the money after he dropped me at my hotel. I think it worked / works on how many punters he and his colleagues took there. I still remember that girl after all these years. During our cuddling session she took out a black and white passport photo of a Japanese guy and told me that it was her boyfriend and that she loved him. Funny how you remember shit like this.