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[QUOTE=Logos;1254510]Before I sit down in any of those bars I always ask the 2-3 girls I like most if they are ok for barfine. Turns out it's very rarely the case, which saves me time and money as I then move on to more amenable venues with no regrets.[/QUOTE]While that's a good idea, some girls actually let customer to barfine her, but then afterwards make excuses to leave early. Headache, period, not feeling well. You name it. So what gives?
Spaceman
[QUOTE=AussieGuy100; 1254967]Doesn't bother me. I firmly believe that if you are slightly generous in your attitude, you get a much better response from the girl. If an extra five dollars here or there buys me genuine warmth, smiles, and kisses rather than a strictly business-like performance from the girl, then to me it's worth it.
Sure you can haggle them down on price. But think for a moment what you are implying to the girl: you are basically saying to her "I don't think you are $30 worth of beauty and personality, only maybe $15"
That's got to affect her feelings and attitude towards you.
Yes sometimes for the hell of it I see how low I can get them. But I quickly feel very bad as I see them mentally wrestling with the choice of no money versus having to spend a couple of hours with a hairy barang for $10 or $15. You can sense the desperation in them and I don't like that. To me it seems an abuse of financial power over a far less fortunate person.
End of lecture. LOL[/QUOTE]Sure they like you dishing out more than the going rate, but have zero respect for you doing so. The way you treat them is far more important than how much money you give them as far as GFE is concerned. And soon, if not already, the going rate will be 30-50. Then are you going to start giving 70+? 30 bucks is more than a weeks pay to most people here with what they consider good jobs. It only takes one dude to overpay one girl in a bar and all the rest of the girls in that bar think they will get the same and will hold out for it. (Well until their rent is due and / or too much time until pay day)
In threads below are some comments on how some girls won't go. All of them will go if the money is right. Most of the ones that say no are wanting you to up your offer thanks to guys that overpay and / or the dudes buying multiple lady drinks.
The reason for my rant? PP is turning into another Pattaya and / or Angeles City at an alarming pace. In the just under 2 years that I've lived here I've seen the prices going up up up. I see the girls using more excuses to leave early and / or not perform. Of course this all doesn't affect me as much as a tourist, but it does make it a bit more of a hassle. Negotiating is not something that should be done here, yet one is basically forced to unless they want to overpay. The last two girls that I took out I'd rate as solid 8s and they performed very well. I paid $15 each time, but did have to haggle. They both called the next day asking to come over. I go through hundreds of girls per year, so yeah, I guess I'm sensitive to overpaying.
I had a similar conversation with a tourist here a couple of weeks ago. He was saying that he only goes with the $50 girls. I challenged him on a barhop to point out these so called $50 girls and within 3 bars he pointed out 3 girls that I paid 15-20 either before or after he paid them 50. What really got him was when I showed him some pics of what the girls and I did and him saying that they refused to do such acts for him. The guy is definitely a better looking guy and in far better shape than I am and as far as I could tell, he was a generally polite well mannered man. So that should be proof enough that overpaying doesn't pay as far as the results behind closed doors.
In closing, those of us that live here are very hesitant of giving new info just because guys like I've mentioned will fuck it up.
AussieGuy, my rant isn't directly aimed at you, so please don't take offense. Your post just happen to be the most recent one. I've held my tongue on other similar posts. I guess another thing that got me going on this rant is that a guy I know well when I lived in the PI and he and his buddy said they paid a minimum of 30 each time. This even after they witnessed me getting a girl for 15. The newest thing here now is the girls quoting 50 for an hour. Laughable it should be, but dudes are paying it!
OK, that felt good to type out and get it off my chest. Now should I click the post button? What the hell, I might as well. Surely this post can't possibly be any worse than all the totally useless posts on whether to post a girls pic or not. (My vote for the stupidest topic I've seen on this or any board).
Disclaimer: I'm not out to tell anyone how to spend their hard earned cash. I would just like them to realize that they are indeed fucking up a good thing fast. Now I'm going to go to a bar that I recently found just off the beaten path that hasn't heard of the $50 guys yet and every girl in there wanted to go the last time I was there even though I didn't buy a single lady drink.
[QUOTE=Logos; 1254510]Aussieguy, you'll probably find out that most of them are just eye candy. Generally a waste of time as almost none of them is barfinable. .
Before I sit down in any of those bars I always ask the 2-3 girls I like most if they are ok for barfine. Turns out it's very rarely the case, which saves me time and money as I then move on to more amenable venues with no regrets.[/QUOTE]On my last visit, I went into one smallish bar on 136, which had the cutest girl I'd seen on my whole visit (of just 4 days). It didn't take much finesse on my part to convince her to go to my hotel, though she would only do it on the next night, not that one (maybe she already had a customer set up that night). This one was a deliciously hot 19 year old. This was just over a year ago, not that long ago.
So I don't know, I suppose it's possible things have changed drastically since I was there, but I'm thinking it also could be possible that other factors might come into play. I'm a guy who's not overweight, late 40s, fairly clean cut and presentable. I don't go out to these places wearing a singlet, shorts and sandals. I shower before going out.
Anyway, I just find it hard to believe that none of the cute girls in these places are willing to go with customers, as a rule. If they're a bit picky because they're in demand enough that they can be, that's not exactly the same as they don't go with customers.
[QUOTE=AlLostInSpace13; 1254893]I too have been disappointed once too many times by those non-barfineable teasers. Your suggestion gives me new hope.
Spaceman[/QUOTE]It is not really true that these girls do not barfine. Unlike Thailand or Philippines there is no pressure on these girls to go out with guys. All this is because of NGO pressure on the government to rack down.
Like anywhere else girls make real money only by having sex with punters. Another good thing in Phnom Penh bars is there is no pressure to buy ladydrinks.
It is always better to be upfront and talk to the girl who sits with you. Ask her who will go with you. She will point out the girls. She will even talk to them if you pick. This way there is no confusion as to who will go with you and who will not. If none change the bar. There are also freelance girls at discos. My favourite one is on the riverwalk. It is upstairs. Lots of normal girls go there also so better be carefull.
[QUOTE=Wendella;1255760]Anyway, I just find it hard to believe that none of the cute girls in these places are willing to go with customers, as a rule. If they're a bit picky because they're in demand enough that they can be, that's not exactly the same as they don't go with customers.[/QUOTE]Okay I concede that: 1) may be you got lucky, or 2) may be you're much more handsome than I am. Either way, unless things change drastically in PP, I ain't going back any time soon. I'll stick to BKK instead.
Spaceman
Wendella makes a very good point. I've been coming to PP on and off for about three years now. If you dress half decently, have a warm and friendly attitude and try and have some fun with the girls, I find it very easy to hook up with attractive girls any time. Shave (if you are normally clean shaven) before you go out. Any girl prefers smooth to rough. Especially if there is a chance she will let you downstairs. Brush your teeth or carry mints. Works wonders. Basic hygiene and grooming will almost guarantee a better quality experience. Seriously. The number of slobs I see around town is amazing. These girls might be for hire but they have standards too. A little respect goes a long way.
The other thing I will offer is that stingy guys get known and generous guys also get known. By this I mean when at the bar / s having drinks or food. I have found many times that a good tip with the girl behind the bar ends up in some pretty girls coming to say Hello, to me. Theses girls are not greedy but it seems they want to be with someone nice, not someone stingy. And that's not hard to understand.
I rarely pre-negotiate. Almost always have that discussion after the fact. Never felt like I have overpaid or been ripped off. Treating the girl well removes those issues every time.
Just my thoughts. Take 'them or leave 'them.
[QUOTE=Wendella;1255760]So I don't know, I suppose it's possible things have changed drastically since I was there, but I'm thinking it also could be possible that other factors might come into play. I'm a guy who's not overweight, late 40s, fairly clean cut and presentable. I don't go out to these places wearing a singlet, shorts and sandals. I shower before going out.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=AlLostInSpace13; 1254893]I too have been disappointed once too many times by those non-barfineable teasers. Your suggestion gives me new hope.
Spaceman[/QUOTE]More often than not when I am unsure who will go I sit at the bar and chat with the cashier. In my limited experience unless there are multiple cashiers, the cashier cannot be barfined so has no incentive to not tell you who is available. In one case I actually had the cashier bargain the girl down to the price that I wanted to pay.
Like someone else said, most of them can be barfined but some may not outright agree to just go for sex. If there is one that you really want and she says no try telling her that it is just for dancing. Take her to one of the clubs and after ask if she wants to come back to your hotel. Your millage will vary with this strategy. I have never tried this, but other guys I have met report having pretty good success with it.
[QUOTE=AlLostInSpace13; 1255924]Okay I concede that: 1) may be you got lucky, or 2) may be you're much more handsome than I am. Either way, unless things change drastically in PP, I ain't going back any time soon. I'll stick to BKK instead.
Spaceman[/QUOTE]I guess either one is possible. I wasn't there long enough to get enough opportunities to be sure that it really was that easy. I'm not handsome, in that department I would peg myself as average or a little less than average. I'm not overweight or hairy, and I'd make sure not to be stinky (take a shower) before going out to the bars. One thing I should add: in another bar (street 104) on my first night, there was a very friendly girl who I'd sat with for a few drinks, and when I eventually asked her, she was not up for going to the hotel, though she did ask if I would be ok to go tomorrow instead. I'd just sat there and had drinks with her for awhile, and was "in the mood" by now, so I felt pretty annoyed at that semi-rejection, and so I just told her No I wouldn't, paid my bill and left.
I can remember when I first came to PP about 10 years ago, that you could be walking around with Groucho Marx eyebrows drawn on with black marker and a black-dyed beard wearing a singlet and your gut hanging down over your shorts, and that seemed to be no problem (I used to see those crazy looking characters in the bars and around town in those days; some of you long time PP vets probably know exactly which guys I'm describing-heh heh.). It used to be a lot easier when Martinis was the main spot in town, and it was packed every night with a great variety of girls, all ready to go as soon as you offered. So overall Phnom Penh has gotten a lot tougher for user-friendliness, that is for sure. And it's not even close to being in the same league with Bangkok or Pattaya in terms of sheer numbers of girls available, or easiness of picking them up. The "market" in Phnom Penh was always far smaller than in those Thai places, but at least it used to be cheaper and just as easy. But since then it has gotten more and more dispersed, the venues more difficult, and of course the prices have risen a bit. But as a destination for this particular hobby, anyone who has been to Thailand is probably going to arrive in PP, and as soon as he's out on the town he'll be thinking, Damn, I should have gone to Thailand instead.
Myself, if I could go to either Thailand or Cambodia for a week of recreation, the choice is easy: Thailand every time. I could see it being a difficult choice 8 years ago, but these days there's no contest.
I really don't have the patience to try to find out which girls in the bar will take a barfine, or work on a cute one for a couple days.
Too much of a hassle. The whole point of paying is to remove the hassles.
Also agree with Mongering1.
The girls try to fish for the clueless tourists who will pay $40 or $50.
Once they find out you know the score, they're just as happy to go with you for $15 or $20 if you're pleasant with them.
You're not buying anything extra by being generous.
[QUOTE=GentleBoner; 1257115]I really don't have the patience to try to find out which girls in the bar will take a barfine, or work on a cute one for a couple days.
Too much of a hassle. The whole point of paying is to remove the hassles.
Also agree with Mongering1.
The girls try to fish for the clueless tourists who will pay $40 or $50.
Once they find out you know the score, they're just as happy to go with you for $15 or $20 if you're pleasant with them.
You're not buying anything extra by being generous.[/QUOTE]Yes and no IMHO.
Of course the girls will try for a big paycheck. With the waves of tourists, especially Asians, now flying into Phnom Penh, they'd have to be fools not to. And yes it is easy to negotiate them down to something more reasonable. But with some girls it will bring a change in attitude. For example last night I met a gorgeous girl on only her fifth day in the bar. She was very attentive but wanted $50 for LT or $30 for an hour. I said no and after some more chat she agreed to $20 for two hours. Yes it was ok with her but she was definitely seeing it as a business transaction rather than a pleasant evening in having sex.
As for the hassle factor of having to 'chase' a hottie for two days before she says yes, to me that is part of the fun. Anyone can walk into a bar, find a reasonable looking girl and be out of there in ten minutes, back at the hotel and f*cking her brains out. But after the tenth or twentieth time doing that, for me anyway, it loses its appeal.
So I like to try to get the harder ones. Like the often very sexy cashiers, or the ones who 'don't go' with customers. More of a challenge! Of course over the two days or so that I am pursuing them, I am also taking out the regular 'easy' girls!
For those of you looking for something different from the endless hostess bars, try The Golden Boss dancing nightclub on the corner of street 94 and Sisowath Quay. *
This is a timewarp to the days of ballroom dancing, but with the dancing girls available to take home after a quick tango or two. *There is a six piece orchestra and a succession of girls singing, all of them available. Similar to the beer gardens over the Japanese bridge from downtown PP. *
The night I went it was fairly quiet, but still fun. There were about ten girls sitting outside waiting for customers and another twelve or so inside dancing with each other or with customers. They were all about 5-6 rating. Not sure on pricing but I'd guess similar to most girl venues. I'd gone there with a girl, so I didn't get a chance to ask the girls about their rates. Apparently the place is packed on Saturday and Sunday nights.
A fellow ISG guy was in town for a few days and I had a good time visiting bars and swapping war stories with him. I thought I had done some fairly serious mongering, but a couple of the experiences that he mentioned were fairly jaw-dropping. Unfortunately the ISG site rules don't allow details of these types of experiences to be posted. *
He was also the 'lady drink king', buying several lady drinks within minutes of entering a bar, but I cured him of that habit pretty quickly. Don't want to be too generous to the girls, or some of the resident PP posters on ISG would complain we are raising the girls' drink expectations!
I visited a number of bars on 136 last week. All similar and no standouts. Bar 69 used to be full of hot young chicks, but the quality seems to have slipped recently. Change of ownership maybe?
It really does seem to be luck of the draw as to whether you will come across a real hottie or not. Depends on which day, time of night, what girls are having a day off.
Rose Bar and Smiling Girl Bar, both on 104 are good at the moment. Some new girls, as well as a number of girls with generous sized boobs, which is unusual. And Airforce Bar, also on 104, seems livelier than most of the others, with some decent girls and sexy dancing on the bartop.
I hear that! There is a certain 'thrill of the chase' in snagging a particularly hot girl. Took me several visits to get access to a particularly hot girl from Candy Bar a while back. Far and away the most attractive there, but a bit shy of coming out for more. She was also incredibly non-demanding. After a few visits she agreed to come out, since we made a good connection. Worth it? You bet.
[QUOTE=AussieGuy100; 1257884]As for the hassle factor of having to 'chase' a hottie for two days before she says yes, to me that is part of the fun. Anyone can walk into a bar, find a reasonable looking girl and be out of there in ten minutes, back at the hotel and f*cking her brains out. But after the tenth or twentieth time doing that, for me anyway, it loses its appeal.
So I like to try to get the harder ones. Like the often very sexy cashiers, or the ones who 'don't go' with customers. More of a challenge! Of course over the two days or so that I am pursuing them, I am also taking out the regular 'easy' girls![/QUOTE]
I am headed to Phnom Penh in a couple of weeks. I decided I would rather pay a little more for a hotel and stay in a nice place (although still pretty cheap by Western standards).
I'm not naming the hotel for privacy reasons, but it is listed here as being girl friendly:
[url]http://www.bargirlfriendlyhotels.com/category/cambodia/phnom-penh/[/url]
The hotel's website says they are "family friendly" but does not say anything about "no sex tourism" like some hotels. So it sounds like I might get dirty looks from some guy's fat ugly wife, I can deal with that.
However, I searched the forums and saw some people complaining that this hotel is NOT girl friendly, the reason being that they hassle you for the girl's I'd. I emailed the hotel, they replied that having guests is fine, without an extra fee, but they must be over 18 and must leave their I'd at the desk.
This sounds pretty reasonable to me, this policy is only there to protect me and to protect the hotel. I have no problem with this policy at all.
However, is this going to cause issues, as far as limiting my choices of girls to invite back? You would think they would need I'd to get into the bars in the first place? What about Vietnamese girls, are they in the country illegally and will not have an I'd? Do the Vietnamese girls normally stick to the massage parlors and brothels, and are not even available for take-out? Maybe the girls without I'd are the ones more likely to cause problems anyway?
I guess the ST hotels are fine for girls without I'd but not really my preference. In fact I'm hoping to find just one stunner and keep her the for the whole trip.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
[QUOTE=John Smith 2112; 1258378]I am headed to Phnom Penh in a couple of weeks. I decided I would rather pay a little more for a hotel and stay in a nice place (although still pretty cheap by Western standards).
I'm not naming the hotel for privacy reasons, but it is listed here as being girl friendly:
[url]http://www.bargirlfriendlyhotels.com/category/cambodia/phnom-penh/[/url]
The hotel's website says they are "family friendly" but does not say anything about "no sex tourism" like some hotels. So it sounds like I might get dirty looks from some guy's fat ugly wife, I can deal with that.
However, I searched the forums and saw some people complaining that this hotel is NOT girl friendly, the reason being that they hassle you for the girl's I'd. I emailed the hotel, they replied that having guests is fine, without an extra fee, but they must be over 18 and must leave their I'd at the desk.
This sounds pretty reasonable to me, this policy is only there to protect me and to protect the hotel. I have no problem with this policy at all.
However, is this going to cause issues, as far as limiting my choices of girls to invite back? You would think they would need I'd to get into the bars in the first place? What about Vietnamese girls, are they in the country illegally and will not have an I'd? Do the Vietnamese girls normally stick to the massage parlors and brothels, and are not even available for take-out? Maybe the girls without I'd are the ones more likely to cause problems anyway?
I guess the ST hotels are fine for girls without I'd but not really my preference. In fact I'm hoping to find just
Thanks in advance for any advice.[/QUOTE]First off: RELAX. You will have a wonderful time in Phnom Penh.
The I'd issue is not really an issue. Most girls from the normal girlie / hostess bars will have I'd. A lot of the freelancers will also have I'd. I'm not sure about Vietnamese girls who are illegally in Cambodia, but there are hundreds of legally resident Vietnamese girls who will also have I'd.
Some hotels say they need overnight guests I'd but if you front up with a girl who doesn't have I'd, they will just hold her cellphone at reception overnight. One place I stayed at, I brought a girl back who had no I'd and no cellphone, so the hotel just made me sign in a book to say I took responsibility for the girl in case of any theft problems etc. So it's no problem, and as you say, it's just for your protection.
Also there is a very different attitude to prostitution in Cambodia, Thailand and most of SE Asia compared to the west. It is a much more accepted part of daily life. So hotels, restaurants, bars and most other places won't hassle you at all as you BRI g your hottie (or two) into their establishments. Yes you get the odd frown from American mid-Western middle aged couples in hotel foyers or restaurants, but I actually take a perverse delight in choosing restaurant tables right next to them when I'm out with a hot girl, so I can watch them squirm! All part of the fun.
And yes, if you can find a gorgeous, friendly, English speaking girl in your first couple of nights and then keep her for the trip, that is a great way to go. She will show you loads of places you might not otherwise see, and the whole GFE will be much better. Just don't make any promises to her that you can't keep!
[QUOTE=AussieGuy100; 1258477]First off: RELAX. You will have a wonderful time in Phnom Penh.
The I'd issue is not really an issue. Most girls from the normal girlie / hostess bars will have I'd. A lot of the freelancers will also have I'd. I'm not sure about Vietnamese girls who are illegally in Cambodia, but there are hundreds of legally resident Vietnamese girls who will also have I'd.
Some hotels say they need overnight guests I'd but if you front up with a girl who doesn't have I'd, they will just hold her cellphone at reception overnight. One place I stayed at, I brought a girl back who had no I'd and no cellphone, so the hotel just made me sign in a book to say I took responsibility for the girl in case of any theft problems etc. So it's no problem, and as you say, it's just for your protection.
Also there is a very different attitude to prostitution in Cambodia, Thailand and most of SE Asia compared to the west. It is a much more accepted part of daily life. So hotels, restaurants, bars and most other places won't hassle you at all as you BRI g your hottie (or two) into their establishments. Yes you get the odd frown from American mid-Western middle aged couples in hotel foyers or restaurants, but I actually take a perverse delight in choosing restaurant tables right next to them when I'm out with a hot girl, so I can watch them squirm! All part of the fun.
And yes, if you can find a gorgeous, friendly, English speaking girl in your first couple of nights and then keep her for the trip, that is a great way to go. She will show you loads of places you might not otherwise see, and the whole GFE will be much better. Just don't make any promises to her that you can't keep![/QUOTE]Thanks so much for the excellent inputs Sir!
I too am facing the same predicament as JohnSmith : obviously the Raffles is out of the Question. However as the P. P. Hotel has a KTV in the premises it should be fine with an overnight "friendly" provided a double room is booked.
However as most of the "fun" bars are on the riverfront, the bargirl friendly Bougainviller Hotel springs to mind : the tripadvisor warns that the better rooms are on the 4th floor & there is no elevator (which normally I don't care about) : I dread the prospect of being dead drunk at 3am with a willing companion & being faced with a hike up 4 floors.
Sir, I too would appreciate any inputs you may have aon a well-located girl-friendly establishment (with COLD aircon if that is not too much to dream for!)
Thanks in advance