[QUOTE=Tiny12;2986889]
What do you think?[/QUOTE]I see a dictator in Ukraine with no interest to make peace. Ukraine is fucked.
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[QUOTE=Tiny12;2986889]
What do you think?[/QUOTE]I see a dictator in Ukraine with no interest to make peace. Ukraine is fucked.
[QUOTE=Tiny12;2986889]Do you believe developments over the last 72 hours could actually be positive? It looks like Europe and Ukraine are coming up with a proposal for terms for a ceasefire. And Russia and the USA will probably do the same. Perhaps that makes sense. If you have Putin and Zelensky or their subordinates in the same room, they'd likely be at each others throats.
After the breakdown in Washington maybe Zelensky will become more realistic about terms for a ceasefire. And presumably Zelensky and the Europeans will put together a proposal for security guarantees, backed up by European troops on the ground, that would make the Ukrainians feel secure.
Russia's got to want to see relations with the world return to normal, and must be getting a whiff of what that would be like in discussions with the Trump administration about renewing direct air service and the like.
What do you think?[/QUOTE]The best for current regime is Kiev is to accept Putin's proposal of June 2024.
Zelensky kaput, he is an expired former President, he even can't resign now.
We will not allow any European intervention whatsoever. As we say 'I won't even poop with you nearby in the open field'. Recall Macron at the end of the table across Putin in Moscow? Keen to know why?
No ceasefire until the treaty is signed. As we say, 'Money upfront from the buyer in the morning, and the chairs go to the buyer in the evening'.
As for guarantees, my view, it can be modeled after Austrian Treatise of 1955.
Remember, Ukrainian conflict is just a child of a deterioration in US / Russia relations and a deterioration of security in Europe prior to 2008.
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2986912]And this man calls me an idealist!
Putin couldn't be happier with Russia at war and his power unchallenged. His only concern now is a rapidly deteriorating economy, but he has Trump to fix it.
Putin will only stop when he can't fight any longer, which would happen THIS YEAR if a different president took the WH. Since that's not what happened, his errand boy will finish the destructions of the US Defense sector, put a stop to all Ukraine military assistance, degrade the Nato capabilities, remove the most important economic sanctions (and pressure Europe to do the same), and start cooperating with Russia on joint economic programs. With the economic blockade broken, there are no incentives for Putin to stop the war other than on their terms, which means Ukraine's capitulation.
It must feel like Christmas in Kremlin.
And man, how I wish to be wrong, but, unfortunately, [B]I've been 100% right about everything regarding Trump so far[/B] (go ahead and check my old posts! And I don't see that changing. The only weak hope for Ukraine now is if Dems flip the Congress in 2028, but by then, Trump and his minions will have been totally entrenched.[/QUOTE]I've been right since 2023, pointing out the obvious, that the two sides were engaged in WWI trench warfare and should settle this. And that Russia was dead set on not losing, ergo Ukraine could not win. I believe that you on the other hand have been predicting an imminent Ukrainian victory since then.
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2986904]Pride? What pride? Trump's? The only thing Trump swallowed was cum leftovers on the back of his throat from blowing Putin over and over again.
Vance? The living and breathing lump of dung? The one who called him American Hitler before crawling back to his new owner for docile servitude? That Vance?
Tell me if you will: How did Zelensky offend Trump? By calling Putin a murderer and terrorist? By stating that he must pay for his crimes? By suggesting that he pays reparation for the extreme damage and loss of lives he instilled on his country? That offended Trump? Wow!
That said, I came here bearing a gift.
I did re-watch this astonishing disgrace again, and I'll give you two concessions.
1. Zelensky shouldn't have addressed Vance directly. That was definitely a mistake. He just should've expressed his opinions by talking to the media.
2. he should've spoken via the interpreter the whole time. His English is much better now than it was in 2022, but talking in his native tongue would've helped him under the sustained attack from two vicious assholes. Then again, he didn't expect an ambush.
But that's exactly what Zelensky had done since Trump won the election. Thanking him profusely (for NOTHING by the way) on all and every occasion, smiling to the man who had wronged him for years at every turn, who'd already called him a dictator and blamed HIM, not Putin for the war.
Of course, Roosevelt never berated his allies, so we don't know if Churchill would've argued or sat "cross armed", if he had. Churchill, from what I've read, had an explosive personality, and I don't see him taking it up his ass from a scum like Trump. Actually, I think with Churchill things could've gone physical.
BTW, your bringing up Churchill is very unfortunate. Not only is it insulting to compare a titan like Roosevelt to the utter piece of shit we're having in the WH today, but please do some reading on how respectfully Churchill and Roosevelt were treating their ally De Gaulle despite hating his guts.
You're simply don't do something like this to your allies. Of course, when your ally is a dictator and war criminal, all bets are off.[/QUOTE]Yeah, you're repeating what I already said, about Zelensky addressing Vance and needing an interpreter.
And yeah, you're right about Trump's thin skin and De Gaulle. So what. Trump's a narcissist and Zelensky should have know that when he went to Washington. Maybe he should have treated Trump like Churchill treated De Gaulle, especially considering Trump is potentially key for Ukraine's survival.
Again, after thinking this over, I'm not sure Trump did a bad thing on Friday, if it ultimately helps gets the two sides to a lasting agreement.
Roosevelt's your hero, not mine.
[QUOTE=Questner;2986942]The best for current regime is Kiev is to accept Putin's proposal of June 2024.
Zelensky kaput, he is an expired former President, he even can't resign now.
We will not allow any European intervention whatsoever. As we say 'I won't even poop with you nearby in the open field'. Recall Macron at the end of the table across Putin in Moscow? Keen to know why?
No ceasefire until the treaty is signed. As we say, 'Money upfront from the buyer in the morning, and the chairs go to the buyer in the evening'.
As for guarantees, my view, it can be modeled after Austrian Treatise of 1955.
Remember, Ukrainian conflict is just a child of a deterioration in US / Russia relations and a deterioration of security in Europe prior to 2008.[/QUOTE]I hope and pray Russia will be more flexible Questner. If Ukraine did turn out like Austria, meaning neutral and a prosperous member of the EU, it would be ideal. But I don't think Ukraine and the Europeans will go for that. I appreciate your point of view, it's interesting to know, and I expect that Russia will start negotiations with those goals in mind.
[QUOTE=AxelHeyst;2986875]Tiny, it was a fucking disaster, although quite a show, no matter which way you slice it. I saw it live and I could not believe what I was seeing. Of course Ukraine's security concerns are real. Nobody trusts Putin, a cold blooded murderer, but these concerns should have been voiced in private, not in front of the world in the White House. I score it Ukraine -5, the USA -1. 5, and Putin +2. Zelensky obviously fucked up, maybe he was jet lagged, but I assume the rift will only be temporary unless the Z man is interested in committing national suicide and losing another million or so of his people over the next few years.
Check out Victor Davis Hanson's observations....[/QUOTE]Very interesting observations Axel. Thanks for posting that. I agree strongly with #2 and #9. Hanson has some ideas for post-ceasefire security that would certainly provide strong assurances to Ukraine. The question is whether Russia would go for them.
Never underestimate the stupidity of the American people: [URL]https://youtu.be/VaW2BNNCnrE?si=zf0ZBIv37AozlGSc[/URL].
[QUOTE=Riina;2986922]I see a dictator in Ukraine with no interest to make peace. Ukraine is fucked.[/QUOTE]I agree. Thing about this incident is the Democratic douches are using this incident to bash Trump like they always have.
But Zelensky had a supporter in Congress with Lindsay Graham, and Zelensky said this about Graham, Reporter: Senator Graham said that perhaps you should consider resigning.
Zelensky: I can give him the citizenship of Ukraine. He will become a citizen of our country, and then his voice will gain weight.
And this came out as well: In 2022, NBC was reporting that Joe Biden lost his temper with Zelensky because he wasn't grateful and he was very demanding.
People have said that Zelensky acted like a person using cocaine. What I can certainly say is he acted like a cocaine addict desperate for money.
If Zelensky was not going to go forward with a cease fire agreement, what was he even doing in the USA? He came to the USA to sign an agreement that allowed for American companies to invest in Ukraine. In other words, his visit was not about peace. He was in the USA to get more money.
[QUOTE=TheCane;2986963]Never underestimate the stupidity of the American people: [URL]https://youtu.be/VaW2BNNCnrE?si=zf0ZBIv37AozlGSc[/URL].[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Trump is not just changing American foreign policy. He is reorienting America's moral compass, a compass that has been firmly set since the country's founding almost 250 years ago.[/QUOTE]Yep! 100%.
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2986912]
Putin couldn't be happier with Russia at war and his power unchallenged. His only concern now is a rapidly deteriorating economy, but he has Trump to fix it.
Putin will only stop when he can't fight any longer, which would happen THIS YEAR if a different president took the WH. Since that's not what happened, his errand boy will finish the destructions of the US Defense sector, put a stop to all Ukraine military assistance, degrade the Nato capabilities, remove the most important economic sanctions (and pressure Europe to do the same), and start cooperating with Russia on joint economic programs. With the economic blockade broken, there are no incentives for Putin to stop the war other than on their terms, which means Ukraine's capitulation.
It must feel like Christmas in Kremlin.[/QUOTE]Yeah, I cannot say I disagree with you, however I think you do not get that Republicans, Trump, the Ukrainian people and Putin want peace. Democrats, European leaders, and Zelensky want war, so to you, Putin winning is your losing. I think the parties who want peace including Putin won.
But yeah, the war is going to end when Putin wants it to. The USA will use the removal of sanctions as leverage to get a better deal for the Ukrainian people and ourselves but there is no doubt that Russia is going to do well when this war ends, and the sanctions are removed.
As for NATO, yeah, I hope we pull out. They remind me of a police force trying to create bad guys to justify their existence when there is no crime. It is just one debacle after another. I do not know what the USA gets out of being in NATO.
Thing is from a debt POV Europe is in way worse shape than the USA which is in way worse shape than Russia. Russia does not have the nanny socialist state that Europe does, and Europe does not pay much for its own defense; they sponge off of us.
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2986912]
The only weak hope for Ukraine now is if Dems flip the Congress in 2028, but by then, Trump and his minions will have been totally entrenched.[/QUOTE]I think you are confusing Zelensky and his cronies for the people of Ukraine. I think the people of Ukraine want peace. The Ukraine delegation was near tears after Zelensky pulled his coke fueled rant.
As for you Democratic douches, when you were running around crucifying Trump for pieces of paper and a check to a porn star, can we admit the truth now? Your demented president blew up Nordstream in an act of war against Russia. What were the chances that would lead to an all out nuclear war? 1%? 2%? How fucking stupid was that? That is why I call you all Democratic douches. Your priorities are so fucked up!
And you keep up this bullshit about what a danger Putin is and was? OMG. You Democratic douches and the European leaders are more of a threat to the planet than Putin ever was. Thank God he was more rational than you fools were! So when you Putin bashers are out smashing away at him, the rest of the world owes him a debt of gratitude for keeping his cool.
[URL]https://www.instagram.com/reel/DGq219qBEAV/[/URL]#.
[QUOTE=Tiny12;2986952]I've been right since 2023, pointing out the obvious, that the two sides were engaged in WWI trench warfare and should settle this. [b]And that Russia was dead set on not losing, ergo Ukraine could not win.[/b] I believe that you on the other hand have been predicting an imminent Ukrainian victory since then.[/QUOTE]So your reasoning is that when one side wants to win very, very much, it somehow guarantees their victory?
You serious?
When in the history of warfare, was ANY COUNTRY "dead set on losing"? Was Russia "dead set on losing" the Crimean War? The Japanese War? The WW1? The Winter War? The Afghan War? Any of other multiple conflicts it's lost during its long, bloody history?
[QUOTE=Tiny12;2986952]Yeah, you're repeating what I already said, about Zelensky addressing Vance and needing an interpreter.
And yeah, you're right about Trump's thin skin and De Gaulle. So what. Trump's a narcissist and Zelensky should have know that when he went to Washington. [/QUOTE]I didn't "repeat" what you said, Tiny. Like I explained in my post, I simply agreed with you on these particular points. If you can't see the difference, that's fine, too.
Sorry I had to snip the rest of your quote because that's utter nonsense, and I've also developed thin skin for that lately.
I've gone from thinking "WTF were Vance and Trump doing, why couldn't they keep their mouths shut," to believing maybe they did the right thing. The following is from the Associated Press, today. Zelenskyy needs some prodding to come to the table.
[B]Zelenskyy:[/B]
A deal to end the war between Ukraine and Russia "is still very, very far away," Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said, adding that he believed Ukraine's long-term partnership with the USA Was strong enough that American support would continue despite recent fraught relations with USA President Donald Trump.
"I think our relationship (with the USA) will continue, because it's more than an occasional relationship," Zelenskyy said late Sunday, referring to Washington's support for the past three years of war.
"I believe that Ukraine has a strong enough partnership with the United States of America" to keep aid flowing, he said at a briefing in Ukrainian before leaving London.
[B]Trump's Reply:[/B]
"This is the worst statement that could have been made by Zelenskyy, and America will not put up with it for much longer!" Trump said in a post on his Truth Social platform.
"It is what I was saying, this guy doesn't want there to be Peace as long as he has America's backing and, Europe, in the meeting they had with Zelenskyy, stated flatly that they cannot do the job without the USA — Probably not a great statement to have been made in terms of a show of strength against Russia," Trump added in his post. "What are they thinking?
[URL]https://apnews.com/article/russia-uk...a92adad1715231[/URL]
According to a Gallup poll, 52% of Ukrainians want an end to the war as soon as possible. 38% believe their country should keep fighting until victory.
[URL]https://news.gallup.com/poll/653495/...d-end-war.aspx[/URL]
Time to end the madness.
There is no doubt anymore why Trump and Vance put on that show on Feb 28. It's all clear as day. Turned a bit clumsy, but they got a formal excuse they can now throw at some of their supporters who love Trump and dislike Putin. This is what it was all about from the beginning.
[B]U.S. Pauses All Military Aid to Ukraine[/B]
[URL]https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/u-s-pauses-all-military-aid-to-ukraine/ar-AA1AaF5c[/URL]
From now on, only morons or scumbags can keep denying Trump / Vance's CLEAR INTENT to derail the deal and throw Putin a rope. Good job America.
Trump has to put all his chips in or move 'va banque' (and this is never done in real estate where risk the borrowed funds) to achieve any success. Without it two years from now the conflict still be ongoing. Ukrainian won't sign anything. The British war party prefers muddy waters and war to any peace. The resource 'deal' is a joke. The resources are there to benefit the oligarchs with a few crumbs left for budget, why would anyone allow the spoils to flow west?
Also, let's start to debunk cliches. A war to the last Ukrainian is one of them. Once 60% plus of the army will be wiped out the AFU will collapse. The war will end then (unless Europeans step in to die).
'Putin can't be trusted' is another cliche. You don't have to trust him to sign a treaty with the RF. Putin is not a religion.
Another cliche: There were no elections in Great Britain during WWII. So what? There were elections in the US during WWII and also technically Ukraine is not at war, there is only Marshal law in the country. Ukraine did not declare war on Russia. Russia did not declare war on Ukraine. So, Rada should oust the bastard and call on elections.
[QUOTE=Tiny12;2986952]I've been right since 2023, pointing out the obvious, that the two sides were engaged in WWI trench warfare and should settle this. And that Russia was dead set on not losing, ergo Ukraine could not win. I believe that you on the other hand have been predicting an imminent Ukrainian victory since then.
Yeah, you're repeating what I already said, about Zelensky addressing Vance and needing an interpreter.
And yeah, you're right about Trump's thin skin and De Gaulle. So what. Trump's a narcissist and Zelensky should have know that when he went to Washington. Maybe he should have treated Trump like Churchill treated De Gaulle, especially considering Trump is potentially key for Ukraine's survival.
Again, after thinking this over, I'm not sure Trump did a bad thing on Friday, if it ultimately helps gets the two sides to a lasting agreement.
Roosevelt's your hero, not mine.[/QUOTE]Trump has real lack of knowledge about the world, but typical American not knowing more than USA. Also senile schizophren only able to threaten and try to put fire everywhere, what he showed in front of the whole world. When Russia would be broke at the end of the year if still isolated, but Trump will help Putin and blackmailing poor Ukraine, when he knows he lost for economics versus Europe when he can t compete for quality and versus cheap China. USA always made good money from wars, even when they lost, but now really shameful to rob Ukrainians they didn't even protect. Some countries will boycott so shameful now USA, so many don t want anymore Tesla from facist fool Musk and Europe have now to live without USA when can t trust so crazies. Only good point is USA congress don t agree with Trump gang and Trump is failing a lot for his decisions about inside USA, at least few are not as crazy as this senile.