Bangkok Reports

Took breakfast clear hotel dues went to Walkingstreet for mini van for BKK. Paid 100 BT. Each. Only 4 people in the van. Took 2 hr nap in the van. Reached victory memorial. Took taxi for Nana plaza. Paid 100 BT. Took 850 BT room in White Orchid. Very nice room one king size bed. LCD. Good aircon. Saw some Russian girls also staying in above floor. Cool. Went for walk to see lower suk. Attraction. Came back took some rest & started drinking. 2 mahapatiala got in mood & went to check cis above floor. Saw a little party going on in a room. 2 Indian men invite us in their room where 4 cis who I saw earlier are sitting & drinking. Cool. Mixed up with them & started enjoying there. All 4 Russian know Indian language very well. They danced on Indian songs. & seems they are enjoying. The 2 men told us these girls are hookers & staying in next 2 rooms. One of the I liked saw me staring her & came near me & asked me if I want to Fk her. I asked her how much for st. She answered usually they took min. 2000 BT but she like me so 1000 BT. I told 500 BT. She told OK 700 BT. The two other Indian told us its their last night in BKK & they gave1000 BT st to them yesterday. OK. Went with her in the room. She told me time is no problem. Let's enjoy. Oh man she is sooo hot great nude body. Boobs. Great fk for 1. 30 hr. Worth every penny of 700 BT. My friend also took her friend in her room. He also got same treatment. Full satisfaction. Went for a walk soi Nana. Solo many Lbs. Sexy girls but got very exclusive fk so went back & slept. Day 5 coming.

Saturday night due to election eve (liquor "ban" LOL) half the clubs closed and the others with only a few girls, and all the Rainbow clubs were shut. However Sunday night much better, everything open. A few weeks back a lot of Coyote (agency) girls were brought into the various clubs. On regular nights there are usually about 30 getting paid in the Nana parking lot each night before getting their transport home. Most look late teens and taller than usual. Some bar fine and some don't, but last night in Club Asia I saw a very hot long leg Coyote at 1:45 AM begging customers to barfine her. And this girl can really dance, However, note last week, she was turning down everyone including Japanese. Many times I've seen fairly hot girls in that club, way underrated IMHO. Also super hot dancer in Rainbow 1 I saw being barfined by a scruffy looking Japanese dude. At least in terms of facial beauty, classic 10 level Japanese look stunner. Not sure of her number. A bit skinny for some though. My guess is that she had done a barfine or two earlier. I cannot imagine a girl that stunning just hanging on the statge all night. Of course when she was picked by the Japae dude, she was absolutely over the top enthusiastic and was acting like she has won the lottery, and his 2 friends also picked girls with a Japanese look. Not sure how the vibe would be with a westerner unless big bucks was being tossed around.

Rainbow at 1:30 had very low inventory of girls for some reason. I doubt that many barfined, probably just less working earlier."May" or "Mai" #196 was just leaving on a barfine and I spoke with with her, Great personality and the best ass in the place by a mile. Is there a better combination?

woke up late. got freshen up. took taxi for pratunam. ate brunch & shopping. 6 pm back in room & called cis. they told us to come in their room. in their room they offered drinks & ordered indian food & paid bill too. we all 6 start drinking. smoking. eating. we all are having a real good time. i think all 4cis like me & my friend. we all got drunk. one cis took me in her room lock door & start kissing. took my & her clothes off and start bbj. she was so horny & drunk that almost she raped me. for 1 hr we ate each other. wonderful fking. put 700 bt on the table. my friend took one cis in our room & fucked her. 700 bt. both girl want to go disco at night. so got some rest slept in our rooms & woke 11. 30 pm. both girl came in our room & we all start drinking again. after 30 min cis called taxi & we went to disco. i don't remember the name. girls paid taxi & entry fee of 300 bt each our also. got each a free beer inside. we all danced for 2 hr. had lot of fun inside. took taxi back for hotel. my girl took me in her room & my friend took her girl in his room. awesome fucking in night & slept with her. in morning one more shot no money asked by her.

[QUOTE=Dkooau; 1525637]Does anyone know, what's the best hotel bar to pick up working girls. Like Brixs, Singapore. BATS, Jakarta and Xiu, beijing.

Thanks in advance[/QUOTE]Brix is comparable to Spasso at the Hyatt Erawan.

[QUOTE=Mauldid; 1526515]We'll be in town during the World Cup matches. Of course it'll be crazy just like or crazier when the Euro Cup matches were on. Wanted to know what are some of the best G Clubs and Soapies to go to during this time. We want to eat, drink and do the nasty also.

La Belle is on the top of my list. Any suggestions.

Mal[/QUOTE]When is this? I can't seem to find any info online.

Thanks

[QUOTE=FruitNinja; 1527836]When is this? I can't seem to find any info online.

Thanks[/QUOTE]June / July. He doesn't mean the World Cup will be in Thailand. He just means that he will be in Thailand at the time the World Cup games are played in Brazil.

JGM005,

Thanks, sounds like a winner. I will use Mr. T. I have emailed him.

Here is my itinerary. I will leave Sukhumvit area for Pattaya before noon (flexible) on Sunday, February 9. I will leave Pattaya for DMK around 07:00 on Wednesday, February 12. Anyone interested in sharing the cab with me? PM me.

Funman13.

[QUOTE=Jgm005; 1525709]Use him all the time.

"mr_ttaxi@hotmail.com"

1000 bt to Pattaya from Soi 19.

Same fare back.

1200 bt from Pattaya to DMK.

1000 bt from Pattaya to BKK.

All include tolls[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FunMan13; 1527879]JGM005,

Thanks, sounds like a winner. I will use Mr. T. I have emailed him.

Here is my itinerary. I will leave Sukhumvit area for Pattaya before noon (flexible) on Sunday, February 9. I will leave Pattaya for DMK around 07:00 on Wednesday, February 12. Anyone interested in sharing the cab with me? PM me.

Funman13.[/QUOTE]Faunman13 will you still be in Asia next month. I will be in Pattaya for spring break. Also leaving the current city that I live in at the end of this semester starting new positition at the end of August in my home town, better pay and closer to family. Will take entire summer off and spend it in Asia before I start the new position. If you are going to be in Asia over the summer we can meet up.

Chris

[quote=mrahul84;1527741]woke up late. got freshen up. took taxi for pratunam. ate brunch & shopping. 6 pm back in room & called cis. they told us to come in their room. in their room they offered drinks & ordered indian food & paid bill too. we all 6 start drinking. smoking. eating. we all are having a real good time. i think all 4cis like me & my friend. we all got drunk. one cis took me in her room lock door & start kissing. took my & her clothes off and start bbj. she was so horny & drunk that almost she raped me. for 1 hr we ate each other. wonderful fking. put 700 bt on the table. my friend took one cis in our room & fucked her. 700 bt. both girl want to go disco at night. so got some rest slept in our rooms & woke 11. 30 pm. both girl came in our room & we all start drinking again. after 30 min cis called taxi & we went to disco. i don't remember the name. girls paid taxi & entry fee of 300 bt each our also. got each a free beer inside. we all danced for 2 hr. had lot of fun inside. took taxi back for hotel. my girl took me in her room & my friend took her girl in his room. awesome fucking in night & slept with her. in morning one more shot no money asked by her.[/quote]i'd like to meet cheap russians too lol.

One more shot in morning & I went to my room. She didn't asked for any money. Cool. In my room my friend girl is still sleeping. We had 8 pm flight back to India. Last few hours we have. Didn't told the girls. Their group come Thailand every year for few months. May be we will meet next time also. Got their no. Skype. Facebook. ID. My friend girl went to her room without taking money also. Cool again. Got freshen up & cis called us to come in their room. They order breakfast for all of us. We ate & I asked her why you not took money for last night. She told they earn very good money in Thailand. All customers treat them like hookers but you treat us as a friend. They are very happy with our company & felt as we all know each other for a longtime. Told them about our flight today. & we are leaving in 4-5 hrs. Now they want to spend that time with us. OK. Spend 4 hrs goodbye fking. 5 pm took taxi for airport. Called her from India & they told they are coming next month to India & will call me. Waiting for her call.

[QUOTE=Syzygies; 1526212]Seems she has dropped an E and can be know as Miss E (just one). Looks like I should have married Miss E when she was 18, not got her pregnant and not allowed her to get a tit job. She would still be super hot right now, without the tit problems.

I do detect just a bit of acting on her part though during the session. Just slightly over enthusiastic at times, although we do get on very well. Might try her for take out soon. I still haven't taken her ass. I think there is extra charge attached. I would normally only take it for free if the girl really wanted it, as have only done anal maybe 4 to 5 times ever. Besides, Miss E has a wonderful pussy.

It seems that VIP at Dr BJ is very similar to Dr BJ's Nuru. One difference is the same Nuru gel is not used for the body slide at Dr BJ. Its more of an oily / soapy stuff more similar to what Soapy places with body slide used to use. Not sure what other differences are. I have had Nuru gel I think at Dream Heaven Massage. Not so keen on it as it leaves skin slightly sticky as it dries up where oil is smoother.

It looks like Dr BJ girls can be booked to work in the Nuru section too, but not every girl wants to do that.[/QUOTE]I recently had EE for a BJ session. It was my first time at a BJ bar, so first of all I wanted to try the pure BJ experience. Unfortunately I didn't ask about information for the VIP service. As I understand it, it is similar to a soapy massage, right? My other question: Does EE allow two pops, or only one? In an hour or two, I really prefer two pops.

[QUOTE=Syzygies; 1525316]Return Dr BJ for VIP including body slide so I guess it's a lot like Nuru. I should not have awarded 10 for performance first time as now I have to give 10. 5

It's better with EE than I ever had at Annie's and I don't even mind mature aged girl with baby. Ass still on offer but did not use more than a finger. They did not even telephone to say my time was up. Must have true VIP status already. LOL.[/QUOTE]Does EE allow more than one pop during VIP?

Political situatin is hitting these clubs. Rich Thais seem to even be distracted for the moment, and certainly the Japanese are less prevalent.

Not sure how The Pimp is dong these days, but the St Moritz (spectacular looking club inside and mere steps from Soil 11) seems to have a real lack of business recently, and except on party nights and a weekend there can be few customers. Closed Sunday nights, and nights after a party the girls don't even dance. They just stay in the lounge out of sight and at best, just do the parade through in front to the few customers present, and you can watch a band (their bands have hot chicks but tone deaf singers who cannot really sing). In fact the sound system playing the House music dance tracks is so good (world class IMHO) I'd rather listen to that system any day than a live band. Note there is no covers on most nights but drinks are 1000 baht and you have to buy at least one. Note that another G club The Resort (Ratchada) is now closed and replaced by a regular club ("The House")

In regard to G clubs in general, you are wiser to buy drinks for 2 girls at a time (yes very very expensive) but that way the girl (s) don't feel isolated, and the vibe will be better.

These clubs are about girls selling high prices drinks (and longer term for some) finding sponsors, although the girls initially work under the pretense of not being in the sex business. and if you're not a member you are generally not viewed as being around town sufficiently long to be a potential sponsor, so unless you're a young Farang stud or extremely rich, I don't think the odds are high for doing take outs, and you do risk entanglement with jealous boyfriends, and these girls got Thais guys their own age waiting in line.

Keep in mind with G Club girls they can tell their boyfriends they are not "working girls" and can make money just off drinks, versus Go Gos' where the boyfriend already accepts his girlfriend as a pro.

This is just my opinion based upon what I've heard, some from being in the clubs, and some mere conjecture..

I have had 2 recent trips to Bangkok. Stayed 2 nights at the Amari Don Muang (attached to the old airport) on one trip, and the Grand Hyatt Erawan on the second trip.

Amari Don Muang. Very good location if you need to use the old airport, but at least 30+ minutes to the city. Fortunately, the hotel spa had a wonderful massage menu. They basically had a number of legit massages and the last massage they listed was US$100 for a 2 hour all inclusive massage. I took that option on both nights. They took me to a room where they did a line up of the girls and let me select your masseuse. The lineup on both occasion had 6-7 girls. Most were average, but each lineup had 2 girls in the mid-20's, and very good looking. The lineups on both occasions had a couple of "repeat girls", meaning they were there both nights. But they also had different talent on each occasion. I tried 2 different girls since I went twice. The told me later that if I had picked the legit massage option, the girls are not the same. Apparently they are older and only do massages.

On both occasions the girls pushed me hard to go take the massage in my room but I chose to stay in the spa itself because I had work colleagues in the hotel. The massage room had a bath-tub in it which was very convenient. The massage started with both of us in the bath-tub where we gave each other a thorough cleaning and then we headed to the bed. They allowed DFK, DATY, BBBJ (without release) and all types of foreplay (though both said no Greek upfront) , followed with a nice session of love making. She then gave me a good massage, and both allowed a 2nd shot at the end. I was able to do 2 shots the first night, but the second night I could not go after the first shot. The session ended with another thorough cleanup in the tub. The first night she was a clock-watcher and we finished in a little less than 2 hours. The 2nd night we must have been together for 3+ hours. No rush to get me out. Highly recommended if you are in the hotel. They were not very high pressure because I heard 1 hotel guest leave because he didn't like the lineup.

The second time I stayed at the Erawan Hyatt in downtown. Went to the hotel spa during the day for a massage. That turned out to be a massage only. Nothing else was offered. She did not do any thing suggestive and I chose to just get a massage. Later that night I went to the hotel nightclub. Spasso I think. The place was rocking. Lots of girls all decked up. I found 1 that I liked almost immediately. She wanted 5000 Bht but we settled on 4000 and went to my room. Had a very good time. Similar service as the Amari session, however once we were done she wanted to leave and go back to the club. I think we were together for a little over an hour. Unfortunately the rest of my stay at the Erawan was very busy and I couldn't go back.

I did not get a chance to go to any of the famous bars, MP's in the city but still had a good time.

sorry if this has been asked before but i'd appreciate up to date info. what's the situation with regards to taking viagra to thailand? is it allowed?

i have a prescription from my doc so it would be in a pack with my name on. would they confirep001e it on arrival or would i get into more serious trouble? i read it's not possible to buy it easily from thai pharmacies now. i haven't been in thailand for 3-4 years.

actually i don't strictly need it but enjoy having it as a backup.

thanks in advance

[QUOTE=WhosJohnny;1528727]The second time I stayed at the Erawan Hyatt in downtown. Went to the hotel spa during the day for a massage. That turned out to be a massage only. Nothing else was offered. She did not do any thing suggestive and I chose to just get a massage.[/QUOTE]Most of the better hotels massage centers do not offer "extras". Instead of booking a massage in the spa ask the massage desk if the masseuse can come to your room. If yes then she will probably do whatever you want. If they will not send a masseuse to your room (many have stopped doing that) then check if there is a hair salon in the lobby. They will send a "masseuse" to your room and while she may attempt to offer you a massage she's really there for one thing.

Mamasans, as most in here already know, are some of the best entertainers in Go Go's. When business is slow and their constant pointing to the girls and then pointing back to certain customers combined with pelvic thrusts OR "you're just a cheap bastard" (imaginary squeezing bahts with their fingers combined with a frown) hand gesture doesn't work. They will actually jump on customers and start humping the customers themselves.

The most entertaining and crazy mamasan in Nana IMHO works at Rainbow 1. She is very very short, almost a midget, and thin, and does Michael Jackson style moonwalks across the room.

If you want her to go completely crazy give her 20 bahts, or better 100 bahts. She may even set you up with one of the stunners.

[QUOTE=Sterile; 1528937]Sorry if this has been asked before but I'd appreciate up to date info. What's the situation with regards to taking viagra to Thailand? Is it allowed? [/QUOTE]I have never had a problem bringing ED meds, with or without a prescription, into the country. I have never had a problem buying ED meds in Bangkok without a prescription. My most recent trip was December 2013.

[quote=sterile; 1528937]sorry if this has been asked before but i'd appreciate up to date info. what's the situation with regards to taking viagra to thailand? is it allowed?

i have a prescription from my doc so it would be in a pack with my name on. would they confirep001e it on arrival or would i get into more serious trouble? i read it's not possible to buy it easily from thai pharmacies now. i haven't been in thailand for 3-4 years.

actually i don't strictly need it but enjoy having it as a backup.

thanks in advance[/quote]this question was asked and answered exhaustively a couple of months ago. seach timtimguy and you'll find the discussion.

/1 / you can buy viagra or generic in many of the pharmacies. try the one at the top of soi 4 on sukhumvit.

/2 / i said before, i haven't seen anyone have their luggage searched at bangkok's airports (either one) in donkey's years. i just can't imagine getting searched for vitamin v.

ttg

[quote=sterile; 1528937]sorry if this has been asked before but i'd appreciate up to date info. what's the situation with regards to taking viagra to thailand? is it allowed?

i have a prescription from my doc so it would be in a pack with my name on. would they confirep001e it on arrival or would i get into more serious trouble? i read it's not possible to buy it easily from thai pharmacies now. i haven't been in thailand for 3-4 years.

actually i don't strictly need it but enjoy having it as a backup.

thanks in advance[/quote]no problem bringing meds with a prescription into the los. no one gets checked coming into the country but if you have a script you're covered even if you did.

one can easily find viagra in 'nonchain' store pharmacies. my favorite is the one near nana to the left of bullys pub but i bring my own most of the time from my prescription from my doctor and my local pharmacy even though it costs a few dollars more.

i believe many pharmacies in los buy what they believe are legitimate drugs but none are buying direct from pfizer. in fact none are buying from a company buying direct from pfizer meaning there are many middlemen in the thai pharmaceutical business and any of those middlemen can easily slip some cheaper knock off meds into a shipment.

if you can afford a few dollars more it's better to bring your own and limit all the little risks that you can and just focus on what you are there for.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1528990]I have never had a problem bringing ED meds, with or without a prescription, into the country. I have never had a problem buying ED meds in Bangkok without a prescription. My most recent trip was December 2013.[/QUOTE]So what's the going rate for a 100mg generic V in Bangkok?

[QUOTE=Breadman;1529088]So what's the going rate for a 100mg generic V in Bangkok?[/QUOTE]I buy 20mg Tadalafil (generic Cialis) which I cut into four 5mg doses and take daily. I normally buy a year's supply at a time online, which ends up costing me about US$0.55 per dose. On my last trip I bought 10 tabs at a Pharmacy on lower Sukhumvit and paid about THB100 each as I recall. My hunch is a good generic Sildenafil Citrate 100mg (Viagra) will cost about the same.

The bros should bring known-reliable supplies of vitamins C or V on the road. You never know what you get buying from unknown, untested sellers.

I was in China hanging out with lots of beautiful young girls but did not bring any vitamins. I was referred to a reputable pharmacy that allegedly sells only genuine drugs.

Their Cialis pills were in manufacturer's sealed boxes with stamps and all sorts of bullshit, sold for about $10 a pop, but did not work at all. I have proof because I bought Cialis pills in Rio de Janeiro before. Half a real pill would give me on-demand erections any time for about 36 hours. So the pills sold in China are just fakes. They humiliated me with the girls and just pissed me off.

I ordered Generic V 100 mG pills on line from a source in India for about $0. 50 a pill. I would cut each pill into 8 pieces and consume 1 small piece whenever the need arises. They work perfectly every time. The company also shipped me a repeat shipment in error. What all those pills split into 8, looks like they will last 3 or 4 life time of sex. Hehe.

On Sukhumvit, just past Soi 4 going towards Soi 2 there is a pharmacy at which I purchased tadalafil. They sold me a good quality generic. It did the job and I had no undesirable side-effects. As I recall Syzygie's, who I consider to be the gold standard for reliable information, recommended this particular pharmacy in a post he wrote some time in the second half of last year.

Where can I find in Bangkok the original Cialis 20 mg.

Thank you in advance for your help.

As mentioned below the Pharmacy at the top of Sukhumvit beside Bully's Pub is the best place to go. Hard to miss the pub. It's got a bloody big bull outside it. You can buy whatever you want from simple headache tablets up to the strongest sleeping tablets around for those long haul flights and anything else in between. I'll be restocking my Cialis supply in a couple of weeks on my way thru Bangkok. Can't remember the actual price, but not expensive and there are no issues, all legit. It's actually sitting on the shelf, so don't be shy.

I always find it amazing with Thai Pharmacy's. Walked into one in Phuket a few years back, all the headache tablets where behind the counter and all the anti-biotics where on the open shelves. Got their priorities right I guess.

[QUOTE=Retep1; 1529282]Where can I find in Bangkok the original Cialis 20 mg.

Thank you in advance for your help.[/QUOTE]

Stopped by the other day early evening, and some of the regular (working girls) I immediately recognize, and a lot of others in there, age 20's to 40's, some avg, some below average, and some pretty hot. But all generally friendly like most are in there, some doing the usual hand gestures and winks (of course we all know anyone with a pulse will be sent these signals routinely). Like the rest of Bangkok, its an alternate reality of sorts and this just isn't going to happen in London or New York to middle age guys like it regularly occurs in the Beer Garden. Most of the girls in Beer Garden IMHO make quite an effort to be friendly, and I find it for that reason a great place.

After about 20 minutes two cuties walk in and sit next to me. Next thing I know this 20 something German dude walks up to them and starts talking to them, and I hear him talking about trading food for sex. I found this pretty amusing so I join in on the conversation between him and the 2 girls (the girls can barely speak English) My first question YOU actually pay for sex? Note this dude is both tall and very good looking and seems to be a decent chap of sorts and actually quite respectful to the girls etc, so it seems kind of strange hanging in the beer garden to begin with. He says (not referring to Beer Garden per se but outside) sometimes he does get it free but he says he often will cook dinners for girls in exchange for sex. One of these 2 girls he already knows, and she has done the food for sex thing already with him once, but that night she's needs the actual bahts a I guess so she can't take up his offer. Then he informs me that he will sometimes tell Thai girls jokingly (and he insists they know it to be a joke and is not misleading them) that he will marry them if they cook a dinner for HIM. And then he then tells me they invariably go to the food market that same very same day to buy necessary materials to prepare the elaborate meal. I mean i guess in Bangkok anything really is possible.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1529148]On Sukhumvit, just past Soi 4 going towards Soi 2 there is a pharmacy at which I purchased tadalafil.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Retep1; 1529282]Where can I find in Bangkok the original Cialis 20 mg.

Thank you in advance for your help.[/QUOTE]This pharmacy also carries the Eli Lilly brand Cialis 20mg. I don't remember the price.

[QUOTE=Retep1; 1529282]Where can I find in Bangkok the original Cialis 20 mg.

Thank you in advance for your help.[/QUOTE]Almost any pharmacy in or near Nana area will sell you Vitamin V or C or any of its generic variants.

If you use the pharmacy on Sukhumvet near soi 4 make sure you go the second one on the left as you walk toward soi 2. There are 2 pharmacies and they are next to each other. Use the second one. I have used that one and you can get it all including the small dose Cialis that you take every day. They even have the liquid vitamin V for quicker results.

[QUOTE=Mackin;1529370]If you use the pharmacy on Sukhumvet near soi 4 make sure you go the second one on the left as you walk toward soi 2. There are 2 pharmacies and they are next to each other. Use the second one. I have used that one and you can get it all including the small dose Cialis that you take every day. They even have the liquid vitamin V for quicker results.[/QUOTE]Thanks for the clarification. The one I patronized is located next to Bull's Pub. From Google Street View I see you pass another pharmacy on the way to the one I'm referring to.

Frankly, I'm inclined to agree with Wolvenvacht. Any of the pharmacies that sell a full range of prescription pharmaceuticals are probably fine. I've bought tadalafil at other pharmacies along Sukhumvit and never had a problem. I have never bought ED meds from any of the sidewalk stalls.

Biggest hit had to be in the convention business (corporate risk departments apparently deemed the situation too risky and just canceled per their contracts) This has hit the big hotels, and cut out some of the craziest and most reckless spenders. Result is a huge buyers market for mongers in town with hot girls seemingly available everywhere. For example Bacarra, which though a pain in the ass to get to from Soi 11 has had many non busy nights, with certain hotties not being barfined, and westerners seem to getting a lot of attention also. As far as Nana (Soi 4) nearly all the regular (non Go Go) bars (Hillary's, Morning, Night and so forth) seem to have 3 or 4 stunners and 5 or 6 fairly hot other girls available most evenings, and of course in Nana Plaza itself, led by Rainbow 4 and Rainbow 1, and some other clubs stunners and near stunners seem to abound. Although as usual the top 5% seem to keep pretty busy like #15 (blonde, nice ass, fake "C's" bangs, with hair to the ears) at R4 in part because she sends out a good vibe (good eye contact etc) from the stage to farangs of all ages and types. Nor does she act stuck up like that tall light skinned girl (as you walk into the club and she is on the stage,she is always on the extreme right) who seems to have her nose in the air, on stage and even in between sets. (Seems a bit counterproductive to making big money to look unapproachable all the time) For example on stage she never smiles and will rarely ever look back at a customer. In fact that dancer rarely seems to get barfined despite having a great body and decent face. Contrast that to "Mai" (#196) who IMHO has the greatest ass in the club who is always friendly to everyone including westerners, and has both a great sense of humor and and an engaging personality.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1529383]Frankly, I'm inclined to agree with Wolvenvacht. Any of the pharmacies that sell a full range of prescription pharmaceuticals are probably fine. I've bought tadalafil at other pharmacies along Sukhumvit and never had a problem. I have never bought ED meds from any of the sidewalk stalls.[/QUOTE]I have never understood why anyone considers buying meds from the sidewalk stalls when the real stuff is available in the official pharmacies. Is it perhaps a price issue? But then the "if it looks to good to be true, it probably is" rule applies.

[QUOTE=Wolvenvacht;1529454]I have never understood why anyone considers buying meds from the sidewalk stalls when the real stuff is available in the official pharmacies. Is it perhaps a price issue? But then the "if it looks to good to be true, it probably is" rule applies.[/QUOTE]Again, I couldn't agree with you more. As David Hannum said about PT Barnum's customers, "There's a sucker born every minute."

To those of you wondering if you should come to Thailand my response / opinion is 'why not'.

I live up in Esan, Nongbulamphu, but have been down here in Bangkok, minus any red clothing, for two weeks now.

I stayed in Sofitel Sukhumvit for a few days and a week in a smaller hotel 100m down Soi 19 and Sukhumvit. Right at the shutdown of Asoke / Sukhumvit. Now I am in the Grand Millennium which is at the tail end of the Shutdown Asoke area.

I am able to get around with no problems. When can you ever say you lugged your luggage behind you walking down the middle line of Asoke?

I have walked the Asoke Shutdown areas looking at the stuff they are selling but making it a point to stay away from any stage activities. Earlier today, Sunday, I met a sweetheart from the past over in Silom in that shutdown area. Again, not an issue what so ever.

I did not take a taxi into the Asoke area but used Airport Link for the first time and had no issues with luggage. It served its purpose quite well.

It is a great time to be here and no loss of finding good talent in Soi Cowboy or Nana. I can not speak for Pat Pong for that area has been off my radar for years.

[QUOTE=Breadman;1529088]So what's the going rate for a 100mg generic V in Bangkok?[/QUOTE]

Blister pack of four 100mg Kamagra tablets (generic Viagra): 250 baht at "JR Pharmacy" on Sukhumvit between Soi 2 and 4.

Blister pack of four 100mg Viagra original: 1800 baht at "Blez Pharmacy" on Sukhumvit between Soi 21 and 23.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1529525]Again, I couldn't agree with you more. As David Hannum said about PT Barnum's customers, "There's a sucker born every minute."[/QUOTE]"A sucker is born every minute".

That really makes my heart jump with joy. I love a good sucker. ;)

I am well familiar with Asoke area and hoping to stay at Soi 23 Citadines 23. I often walk to Nana from here. Can someone please let me know if getting a taxi from airport to Soi 23 will be a hassle or cost quite a bit extra due to shutdown?

Or are there plenty of alternate streets for vehicular traffic to sneak into?

Also how is pedestarian traffic being affected? Can we still use the BTS walkovers to travel above the interesection?

Arrived BKK at 8:10PM from clk Friday night, went throgh customs in a flash and headed over to get my suitcase at BC. Nothing was coming off the belt so I walked to the ATM beside BC and withdrew B5000. I went back to the belt and my bag was coming my way. Made my way up to departure got a metered cab, after sharing a smoke with a driver, and off to the hotel.

Checked in my room, showered, changed clothes and was ready to head into the night. I was putting my valuables in the safe and checked to see that my cc's were all in tact, that's when I realized I had left my debit card in the ATM (. I tried to call someone at the TMB service counter next to the ATM at the BC, but no one including lost and found would answer the phone. I took a cab back to the airport but to no avail, so back to my hotel and cancel the card.

Next morning I headed over to tulip after breakfast and was looking for Goff but she was fully booked for the next 3 hours. I saw a young YaYa and we climbed the steps up to the room. After about a half hour of intense passion we asked Cherry to join us for the remaining hour. Nothing like a threesome to start the day.

No issue whatsoever with getting around I. E, taxi, moto, bts all is fine and well in the LOS.

Later that night I caught the BTS to Asok and headed to soi cb. Suzi Wong body painting, lesbian show and pussy play was in full swing, I guess if you've never been intimate in a 3some it's exciting. After a half hour I decide to have a look in CH. Full nude pussy everywhere and packed with guests. After the nude show a few dancers in mini skirts hit the stage. One was very intriguing and had a body of a 10 but the face of an 8 (I prefer that matchup). I watch her a bit and then decide to bar fine her. Good chioce!

We head over to Level and later after a few drinks we go upstairs where about 6 lovely friends are waiting. We all drink dance talk (her friends had their own $ as I was never asked to buy them drinks) and generally have a great time. About 3, we taxi back to my hotel and man this girl unleashes some wild, wild sex on me; Dt, gagging, drooling on jr. And a whole lot of love.

We wake up at 11 and she leaves. I worked out then went shopping and walked around Asok protest / market, business as usual looked like to me. Later I jumped the bts to Star of Light and had a very decent looking lady provide me with exceptional service.

You are correct it is the one next to Bull pub as I remember it. Not sure all pharmacies along Sukhumvet carry vitamin V and C. As well as the liquid. I have shopped at the one near the corner of soi 33 and Suk and only bought vitamin V. I don't think they have the other. They are a smaller pharmacy. But if you are in the soi 4 to 23 area you most likely are correct

Beer Garden, most still holding firm at 1500, but if you go in there prime time which to me is lets say 7 to 9 pm and you hang a few hours you will notice little if any girls being taken out. Now if the girl is somewhat of a hottie (by Beer Garden standards at least) like "Mo" a slender (tall late 20's? Early 30's?) pretty brunette who usually hangs on the left side, eventually she comes up with a customer, but she is above average for both regulars and random girls.

Nana Parking lot, expect 1000 pitch for a quickie if you're a known commodity and a gentlemen (2nd time at least) with the same girl, otherwise 1500. And this goes for some pretty hot girls who hang on the right side. That's from first hand knowledge. However, one dude recently told me he was successfully getting Nana girls at 700 but he was giving him his phone number and / or Nana Hotel room number, and some were biting and some were not, but not sure of the quality though.

Thermae, while its true the real real pretty girls (not many for usually a few are there) will hold out all night for Japanese, others are available. I've never even attempted a takeout there and just watch the show (popcorn is there for that reason I think) but some Brits I know have said 2500 to 3000 for long term is doable and they've done it routinely and the girls they pointed out were (while not the stunners) were on the cute side. As far as the Japanese thing it goes way beyond 3, 3.3 or 4, 4.4,. These exceptionally pretty girls often react like they won the lottery when they are selected by a presentable Japanese monger, often with complete giddiness almost as if they instantly infactuated with the one that has selected them, and while I say they are "presentable", they are really just younger and 90% of the time kind of average Japanese guys. Everyone has seen the same things in Go Go's, extremely attractive Thai girls flipping out about being selected by (usually young) but but rather ordinary Japanese blokes, it has to be the fact that Thai culture for years has made Japan its role model, and of course Japanese are perceived as being wealthy etc, and many of their teen idols over the years I believe have been Japanese. Its just not explained by the usual 3, 3.3 criteria. And goes far beyond that. Japan and their success seems to be aspirational for the Thais and now of course Bangkok is having their own success story.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1529939]Beer Garden, most still holding firm at 1500, but if you go in there prime time which to me is lets say 7 to 9 pm and you hang a few hours you will notice little if any girls being taken out. Now if the girl is somewhat of a hottie (by Beer Garden standards at least) like "Mo" a slender (tall late 20's? Early 30's?) pretty brunette who usually hangs on the left side, eventually she comes up with a customer, but she is above average for both regulars and random girls.

Nana Parking lot, expect 1000 pitch for a quickie if you're a known commodity and a gentlemen (2nd time at least) with the same girl, otherwise 1500. And this goes for some pretty hot girls who hang on the right side. That's from first hand knowledge. However, one dude recently told me he was successfully getting Nana girls at 700 but he was giving him his phone number and / or Nana Hotel room number, and some were biting and some were not, but not sure of the quality though.

Thermae, while its true the real real pretty girls (not many for usually a few are there) will hold out all night for Japanese, others are available. I've never even attempted a takeout there and just watch the show (popcorn is there for that reason I think) but some Brits I know have said 2500 to 3000 for long term is doable and they've done it routinely and the girls they pointed out were (while not the stunners) were on the cute side. As far as the Japanese thing it goes way beyond 3, 3.3 or 4, 4.4. These exceptionally pretty girls often react like they won the lottery when they are selected by a presentable Japanese monger, often with complete giddiness almost as if they instantly infactuated with the one that has selected them, and while I say they are "presentable", they are really just younger and 90% of the time kind of average Japanese guys. Everyone has seen the same things in Go Go's, extremely attractive Thai girls flipping out about being selected by (usually young) but but rather ordinary Japanese blokes, it has to be the fact that Thai culture for years has made Japan its role model, and of course Japanese are perceived as being wealthy etc, and many of their teen idols over the years I believe have been Japanese. Its just not explained by the usual 3, 3.3 criteria. And goes far beyond that. Japan and their success seems to be aspirational for the Thais and now of course Bangkok is having their own success story.[/QUOTE]For a resident. 1500 for the old pros at the BG Soi 7 just does not make sense. Add in another 350 for a ST room and you are 50 baht less than an hour at an oily where you will get a better looking girl and depending on the shop guaranteed performance.

Pre-flood far better looking gals could be had at the BG for 1000 baht. Post-flood it has become a haunt for chicks past their prime.

As you said Nana Parking is for gals looking for a quick wham bam.

The Japanese thing is still amazing, especially considering the way so many Japanese talk about Thais.

It is not the same. Prior to erections girl and customer count at BKKs top agogos dreadful. After erections girls have returned bigtime and also customer count has increased noticeably. Still very disappointing it must be for the girls as high season never materialized this year.

Mr W. Analysis very interesting. Only thing is he is seeing way too many stunners! Nowadays stunners or very good looking agogo girls are few and far between.

Last night I saw 3 Rainbow 2 girls get barfined. Whats the big deal you ask? These girls are never ever barfined. Their willingness to go long-time is what I think sealed the deal. The other girls turned down the group of Japanese guys en masse.

If Themae girls are giddy when being chosen by Ippuns they must not be that hot. Girls who are preferred by Ippuns are taken over and over by them. Hard to see them orgasming in the shop.

For some reason conceptually I believe Ippuns who shop at Thermae are cheap. They want to avoid the barfine. When I go to buy popcorn there the girls are not all such of high quality to command over the normal 2-2. 5 short-time fee.

Its just a place to get avg girls without the barfine. I'm sure $18 to some Japs is a big deal!

[QUOTE=FRholmes; 1530058]If Themae girls are giddy when being chosen by Ippuns they must not be that hot. Girls who are preferred by Ippuns are taken over and over by them. Hard to see them orgasming in the shop.

For some reason conceptually I believe Ippuns who shop at Thermae are cheap. They want to avoid the barfine. When I go to buy popcorn there the girls are not all such of high quality to command over the normal 2-2. 5 short-time fee.

Its just a place to get avg girls without the barfine. I'm sure $18 to some Japs is a big deal![/QUOTE]Let me guess by your 2 posts on this forum. You don't like the Japanese. Did they harm you somehow. Come on, tell us all why.

OTOH, just because one avoids a barfine does not mean being cheap, but a better business decision. Not all of us are hung up on paying bar fines.

[QUOTE=FRholmes; 1530058]If Themae girls are giddy when being chosen by Ippuns they must not be that hot. Girls who are preferred by Ippuns are taken over and over by them. Hard to see them orgasming in the shop.

For some reason conceptually I believe Ippuns who shop at Thermae are cheap. They want to avoid the barfine. When I go to buy popcorn there the girls are not all such of high quality to command over the normal 2-2. 5 short-time fee.

Its just a place to get avg girls without the barfine. I'm sure $18 to some Japs is a big deal![/QUOTE]In Thermae IMHO its not about saving money per se, but instead because younger Japanese dudes must know there is a ready supply of (often semi pro or perhaps new to the business) cute to very cute girls who want to meet Japanese guys. Seems like some kind of teen dream thing gong on with these girls with the Japanese, and in one case the girl was a 10 on the cuteness scale at least, and yes she was near orgasmic when they went over to the inside bar area to discuss their plans for the night. What they talked about, who knows? But I've seen the same pattern both at Thermae with other girls and in the Go Gos also.

In the Go Go's at least, maybe the mamasans tell the girls to act all giddy and infactuated with the Japanese, as its good for business. I mean they are their main clients. Consider that Tokyo to Bangkok is approximately the same distance as New York to Los Angeles, meaning its almost next door for them, so they will always be good clients.

[QUOTE=FRholmes; 1530052]It is not the same. Prior to erections girl and customer count at BKKs top agogos dreadful. After erections girls have returned bigtime and also customer count has increased noticeably. Still very disappointing it must be for the girls as high season never materialized this year.

Mr W. Analysis very interesting. Only thing is he is seeing way too many stunners! Nowadays stunners or very good looking agogo girls are few and far between.

Last night I saw 3 Rainbow 2 girls get barfined. Whats the big deal you ask? These girls are never ever barfined. Their willingness to go long-time is what I think sealed the deal. The other girls turned down the group of Japanese guys en masse.[/QUOTE]I do often time use the word "stunner" a bit loosely, sometimes labeling them near-stunners instead, but there are a lot of "very good looking" dancers in Go Go's especially this high season which you yourself just admitted "never materialized". Bangkok is loaded with beautiful women, and many of them are P4P at some level. The standard of beauty here is very high, so a true stunner might be like one of the reception girls at Terminal 21 or some of the bank reception ladies around town, drop dead and except for height might for example blend in with finalists in a Ms Universe contest. Those types are everywhere here, but far less common in London or New York City.

Sometimes applying western standards i might call a mere pretty girl a "stunner". For example if you know dayshift bargirl at (Morning-Night Bar on Soi 4)i) "Bea" (or is it "B"), as she's tall, hot, with a nice ass and is extremely personable, and if she worked in a Go Go I would probably call her a stunner just to shortcut the description. As I said in a post several days ago, there was in Rainbow 1 IMHO a G club level skinny brunnette, and nobody was barfining her. There was also in Rainbow 1 a true unquestionable stunner, an astonishingly beautiful (with 10 level Japanese type facial beauty) who did get barfined by some Japanese guy and (yes) she was also all giddy.

[QUOTE=Duniawala;1530298]like the Japanese. Come on, tell us all why.\just because one avoids a barfine does not mean being cheap, but a better business decision. Not all of us are hung up on paying bar fines.[/QUOTE]And the comment noted here is generalized to all Japanese. What Japanese is in Thermae looks like Toyota assembly line workers, the Japanese equivalent of those westerners looking to make their business decisions in the Beer Garden or Nana parking lot.

[QUOTE=FRHolmes;1530052]It is not the same. Prior to erections girl and customer count at BKKs top agogos dreadful. After erections girls have returned bigtime and also customer count has increased noticeably. Still very disappointing it must be for the girls as high season never materialized this year.[/QUOTE]Erections? WTF?

Ah,"elections".

Yes, thank you, we have an election evely molning. :)

I will be in Thailand during this time. Am I better off staying in Bangkok or Pattaya during this time?

Thanks

[QUOTE=FRHolmes; 1530052]It is not the same. Prior to erections girl and customer count at BKKs top agogos dreadful. After erections girls have returned bigtime and also customer count has increased noticeably. Still very disappointing it must be for the girls as high season never materialized this year.[/QUOTE]I am trying to understand what you are saying. However I assume by "right before" you mean a day or two before the Feb 2 elections (which by the way have to be redone anyways) , and by "after" you mean a few days thereafter? That was just a blip and the underlying situation is not improving with PDRC leaders now being arested for violating the emergency decree. If the trend continues, it won't be long before go go girls are working the Nana Parking Lot. Oh sorry, that's already happening I think

Funny thing I saw last night. Arab town computer shop. Arabic based guys left Arabic working girl brought out the deoderizer or perfume and gave the place a few shots to eliminate the smell, could have been Indians.

Theremae is such a non-exciting place to shop for girls. If it works for you great! Better than the street scene.

Without barfine I've seen a girl 10 times in less than 3 months. I pay 2600 baht for 1 hour. If she in agogo setting I would have to pay say 3400 baht. That 800 baht makes a difference to me. This girl wo a doubt is a Superstar-her problem is she is Lao.

Business decision? Better word is value.

Rainbow 1 superstar who gets giddy. Thats her personality, I doubt its an act. I too see many R1 girls who are just good looking who don't get customers regularly. Thats what strikes me everytime I go there. Also despite the good faces I just am not enthused about the place-maybe the girls give off bad vibes.

Theres not many girls who can be choosy with their customers. The majority are just not what the Ippuns like.

Giddy-ness in agogo's. I've seen regularly girls who don't get customers get giddy when they get one. The most giddy is the mamasan when she sees a bottom dweller get a customer. High 5s all around.

[QUOTE=Darmstadter; 1530388]I will be in Thailand during this time. Am I better off staying in Bangkok or Pattaya during this time?

Thanks[/QUOTE]As far as Bangkok you can certainly book hotels last second, no problem.

IF the situation remains at least stable, (minimal levels of violence, tourists not targeted) you are better off in Bangkok, and that's because the availability of beautiful women will be higher than normal. Or perhaps you like women with fun personalities, whatever your preference, all things equal more of those will be available. They just can't all up and leave and go to Pattaya or Phuket, most will have to deal with this market.

On the ground, things are pretty much normal for tourists, except of course key intersections are blocked with encampments, for example Asoke and Siam being 2 major ones, and you will notice an increased police presence everywhere (Army officers also at various locations). However, the economy is getting hit very hard, so its hard to see how things can remain stable as people are going to get increasingly frustrated.

See AP story Feb 4th describing the deteriorating economic situation 'It's terrible. It's worse than ever. We can't see an end to it, ' said Virat Jaturaphutphitak, vice president of the Association of Thai Travel Agents. Reservations from European and North American travelers to Bangkok through April are down 70 percent. Bookings from Asia are down 30 percent. 'If this situation continues, we will have to close many businesses.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/02/04/4663860/thai-firms-feel-squeeze-from-crisis.html#.Uvmr9jbTmUm

As far as mid April, given the security situation in Bangkok, I just don't see how the usual water antics are going to be business as usual. Note police are lined up every day now on Sukhumvit protecting major buildings etc, so the usual antics with the water its probably not going to be the same, and I can't see how its going to happen at the tent cities that have been set up. Although I guess maybe everyone just takes a few days off from the protest or something. Its hard to figure really but Thais of course do have a great sense of humor and seem to adjust to things quite rapidly.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1530523]As far as Bangkok you can certainly book hotels last second, no problem.

IF the situation remains at least stable, (minimal levels of violence, tourists not targeted) you are better off in Bangkok, and that's because the availability of beautiful women will be higher than normal.

See AP story Feb 4th 'It's terrible. It's worse than ever. We can't see an end to it, ' said Virat Jaturaphutphitak, vice president of the Association of Thai Travel Agents. Reservations from European and North American travelers to Bangkok through April are down 70 percent. Bookings from Asia are down 30 percent. 'If this situation continues, we will have to close many businesses. '[/QUOTE]1. Where are these beautiful women you speak of? Twice I went to my favorite massage parlour at 6 pm. As usual mama say girls eating or putting on make-up. I know by experience, that the girls just not showing up for work!

Rainbow 4 at 9pm on many nights stage very very empty. Rainbow 2 similiar, so much so I don't even take a seat.

Anyone actually barfine Rainbow girls now- I wonder if they are reducing prices to get business?

2. If Baccara can be used as an example BUZIT really is suffering. Prime time seats available all over the place.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1530523]As far as Bangkok you can certainly book hotels last second, no problem.

IF the situation remains at least stable, (minimal levels of violence, tourists not targeted) you are better off in Bangkok, and that's because the availability of beautiful women will be higher than normal. Or perhaps you like women with fun personalities, whatever your preference, all things equal more of those will be available. They just can't all up and leave and go to Pattaya or Phuket, most will have to deal with this market.

On the ground, things are pretty much normal for tourists, except of course key intersections are blocked with encampments, for example Asoke and Siam being 2 major ones, and you will notice an increased police presence everywhere (Army officers also at various locations). However, the economy is getting hit very hard, so its hard to see how things can remain stable as people are going to get increasingly frustrated.

See AP story Feb 4th describing the deteriorating economic situation 'It's terrible. It's worse than ever. We can't see an end to it..[/QUOTE]Western,

Thanks for your reply. I agree I can't believe all girls are going to pack up and leave like I have read at different websites. I'll probabaly just stay a few days in Pattaya and the bulk of my time in BKK.

Thanks again for your helpful info.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1529383]Thanks for the clarification. The one I patronized is located next to Bull's Pub.[/QUOTE]I have used that one for many many years. The middle aged thai guy will never give any discount but if you threaten to walk once hes wrapped the purchases up, he might through in a blister pack for free. I found the stuff to be good there and have never bothered trying anywhere else.

Bring your dollars, euro, pounds, etc to exchange now gentlemen. Aeon now charges 150 baht for withdrawal as well as all the other ATMs:

[url]http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/703641-aeon-bank-now-charge-150-b-atm-fee/?utm_source=newsletter-20140211-1517&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=featured[/url]

Day 3.

Woke fairly late, much later than I had planned. As I had arranged for late check out, around 2:00pm, I thought I would give a MP a go before leaving for the airport.

As I had a couple of gems down Soi 24/1 in December, I thought I would check out a couple of the MP's I was familiar with. I went into Pink Panther, and as it was only 11:00am, there were 2 very average looking girls on duty. I declined and tried the next one, Allstars massage (I think?). There were about 6-7 girls available, and although not as pretty as I was starting to get used to, I chose what I thought was the pick of the crop.

Same as usual, starting with a good cleaning in the shower, then an OK massage, an OK CBJ with a tiny bit of DATY, then cowgirl and missionary to finish. I was hoping for better, but it was an OK way to finish off my mongering in BKK.

Went to Siam Paragon for a Japanese lunch, then back to hotel to check out, then taxi to the airport.

A nice, busy 3 day mongering trip to BKK, wetting my appetite to return for another solo trip later in the year.

[QUOTE=FreebieFan;1530573]I have used that one for many many years. The middle aged thai guy will never give any discount but if you threaten to walk once hes wrapped the purchases up, he might through in a blister pack for free. I found the stuff to be good there and have never bothered trying anywhere else.[/QUOTE]Hi,

Any idea of the price for 20mg Cialis 8 pack. My free supply has dried up, damn it.

Thanks.

Tuck

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1529119]I buy 20mg Tadalafil (generic Cialis) which I cut into four 5mg doses and take daily. I normally buy a year's supply at a time online, which ends up costing me about US$0.55 per dose. On my last trip I bought 10 tabs at a Pharmacy on lower Sukhumvit and paid about THB100 each as I recall.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Friar Tuck; 1531012]Hi,

Any idea of the price for 20mg Cialis 8 pack. My free supply has dried up, damn it.

Thanks.

Tuck[/QUOTE]Have you ever thought to RTFF? My post is from 5 days ago.

[QUOTE=Darmstadter; 1530565]Western,

Thanks for your reply. I agree I can't believe all girls are going to pack up and leave like I have read at different websites. I'll probabaly just stay a few days in Pattaya and the bulk of my time in BKK.

Thanks again for your helpful info.[/QUOTE]You better believe! The girls are not showing up at all! Some days you see a lot of girls and then you go back the next day and wonder Where did they all go?

Believe it! Its a mass exodus. Imagine Rainbow 4 with 8-10 girls on stage during prime-time. Better to stay in room and master bait!

[QUOTE=FRHolmes; 1530479]Funny thing I saw last night. Arab town computer shop. Arabic based guys left Arabic working girl brought out the deoderizer or perfume and gave the place a few shots to eliminate the smell, could have been Indians.

Theremae is such a non-exciting place to shop for girls. If it works for you great! Better than the street scene.

Without barfine I've seen a girl 10 times in less than 3 months. I pay 2600 baht for 1 hour. If she in agogo setting I would have to pay say 3400 baht. That 800 baht makes a difference to me. This girl wo a doubt is a Superstar-her problem is she is Lao.

Business decision? Better word is value.

Rainbow 1 superstar who gets giddy. Thats her personality, I doubt its an act. I too see many R1 girls who are just good looking who don't get customers regularly. Thats what strikes me everytime I go there. Also despite the good faces I just am not enthused about the place-maybe the girls give off bad vibes.

Theres not many girls who can be choosy with their customers. The majority are just not what the Ippuns like.[/QUOTE]Superstar? Is that the one from Rainbow 4? I thought you barfined her over 19 times last fall? Or did you skip the barfine and just meet her OTC?

[QUOTE=FRHolmes; 1531048]You better believe! The girls are not showing up at all! Some days you see a lot of girls and then you go back the next day and wonder Where did they all go?

Believe it! Its a mass exodus. Imagine Rainbow 4 with 8-10 girls on stage during prime-time. Better to stay in room and master bait![/QUOTE]Right, the next day they show up, and that's because Thailand among other things doesn't have a food stamp program. The tourist industry has been decimated, and while jobs are available for Thais. They don't pay much, and Go Go dancing still pays pretty decently (600 baht per night apparently) Some girls in Rainbow 4 are just too shy to even approach customers, and this includes some reasonably cute girls. If they notice you are looking at them on stage for an extended period, when they step off stage sometimes they will sit beside you, but many are just too afraid to initiate conversations with customers. That type of thing is not going to happen to average blokes in London or New York, as Bangkok really is a true fantasy land.

As an example a few weeks back, there was this (I believe new to R4) girl-next-door type slender and cute girl (no not a stunner per se but very very cute nonetheless) and I am sitting right at the stage and I am looking up at her, and other girls, but I guess more at her, and of course she's making eye contact and so forth. So she comes off stage and sits next to me but doesn't say a thing to me, i guess waiting for me to talk,. but I wasn't planning take out nor did i want to buy a ladydrink at that moment, so I didn't say anything. So she's there about 15 minutes while meanwhile I am looking up at other girls, so she then all off a sudden in a huff (looking exasperated) gets up and sits on the other side of the bar, and gestures something, sort of a frustrated expression. to the mamasan Then a Japanese guy motions her over, but he only buys just one ladydrink but doesn't bar fine her and then he goes onto to another girl, and when this happens, she looks embarrased and disappears completely into the back room or outside. Point is many of these girls (Go Go, Bar girls, Soapy whatever) are somewhat normal girls who happen to also be working girls, but many are not hardened as one would typically see in the west.

Step back for a moment, the girl is actually embarrassed about not being selected to go to the hotel to have sex with a stranger. Like I said, its a fantasyland in this cityi

I saw what had to be the shortest barfine ever. I thought it was 15 minutes-no, the girl said it was 10 minutes. Don't know if she included travel time.

I also see a lot of shy girls. I think they do get embarrassed if you look at them too much. If they are new I'm sure they will learn just because a guy likes to look at you it doesn't mean he wants to spend money on you. A guy staring is just a start.

Rainbow 1 on Wednesday had a lot of barfining going on. Very rarely see that. Good for them.

Sometimes I think Rainbow 2 should merge with another Rainbow. LOL.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1531154]Point is many of these girls (Go Go, Bar girls, Soapy whatever) are somewhat normal girls who happen to also be working girls, but many are not hardened as one would typically see in the west.

The girl is actually embarrassed about not being selected to go to the hotel to have sex with a stranger. Like I said, its a fantasyland in this cityi[/QUOTE]Thanks for sharing this story. It illustrates two points that gents new to the Bangkok's sex scene should note. I know you understand exactly what was going on, but someone new to the forum may benefit from some elaboration.

Her reaction was because she lost face, which is one of the worst things that can happen to a Thai. I'm not sure how to avoid situations like this. From your perspective there's nothing wrong with gawking at the lady. And if you don't want to buy her a lady drink or bar fine her that's your business. On the other hand you can't fault the lady for sitting next to you. You were staring at her. She was just reacting to what she took to be an invitation. Her job was then to get you to buy her a lady drinks and bar fine her. She failed. She was humiliated. She lost face in front of her bosses and co-workers.

Second, my hunch is this young lady was relatively new to the gogo scene; and as you point out, she probably comes from a pretty "normal" background. In a month or so she will be hardened. However even the hardened ladies can get pissed if a regular customer who has been bar fining them suddenly switches to a new girl. Again, this causes them to lose face. Some of the old hands make a point of look for a new lady in a venue at which they haven't been bar fining any of the ladies recently.

To us the ways of the Thais can seem strange at times. To the Thais we can seem to act crazy at times.

I should also add. It is true that sex workers are not stigmatized in Thailand the same way they are in countries like the USA. I am much more likely to run into working girls in Thailand who are still "relatively normal" than in the USA. One more reason why I think Thailand in general and Bangkok in particular are a monger's paradise.

My approach is to follow the advice, "When in Rome ..." On my last visit I asked a person in my hotel for some information. It soon became clear the man had no idea what I wanted. So he smiled and handed me some irrelevant documents. Rather than pressing him I just smiled, took the papers and thanked him. I let him save face. He was relieved, but I never got my questions answered. That's Thailand.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch; 1531177]Thanks for sharing this story. It illustrates two points that gents new to the Bangkok's sex scene should note. I know you understand exactly what was going on, but someone new to the forum may benefit from some elaboration.

Her reaction was because she lost face, which is one of the worst things that can happen to a Thai. I'm not sure how to avoid situations like this. From your perspective there's nothing wrong with gawking at the lady. And if you don't want to buy her a lady drink or bar fine her that's your business. On the other hand you can't fault the lady for sitting next to you. You were staring at her. She was just reacting to what she took to be an invitation. Her job was then to get you to buy her a lady drinks and bar fine her. She failed. She was humiliated. She lost face in front of her bosses and co-workers.

Second, my hunch is this young lady was relatively new to the gogo scene; and as you point out, she probably comes from a pretty "normal" background. In a month or so she will be hardened. However even the hardened ladies can get pissed if a regular customer who has been bar fining them suddenly switches to a new girl. Again, this causes them to lose face. Some of the old hands make a point of look for a new lady in a venue at which they haven't been bar fining any of the ladies recently.

To us the ways of the Thais can seem strange at times. To the Thais we can seem to act crazy at times.

I should also add. It is true that sex workers are not stigmatized in Thailand the same way they are in countries like the USA. I am much more likely to run into working girls in Thailand who are still "relatively normal" than in the USA. One more reason why I think Thailand in general and Bangkok in particular are a monger's paradise.

My approach is to follow the advice,"When in Rome." On my last visit I asked a person in my hotel for some information. It soon became clear the man had no idea what I wanted. So he smiled and handed me some irrelevant documents. Rather than pressing him I just smiled, took the papers and thanked him. I let him save face. He was relieved, but I never got my questions answered. That's Thailand.[/QUOTE]So to prevent girls from losing face are you saying don't look at them or show interest. What a bunch of crock!

Theres very few girls who can close the deal most of the time. All these face losers seem to be ok with it.

Humiliated because drink was not cumming? Humiliation by being a prostitute- that I can see! I'm humiliated more by being their customers!

[QUOTE=FRHolmes; 1531338]So to prevent girls from losing face are you saying don't look at them or show interest. What a bunch of crock!

Theres very few girls who can close the deal most of the time. All these face losers seem to be ok with it.

Humiliated because drink was not cumming? Humiliation by being a prostitute- that I can see! I'm humiliated more by being their customers![/QUOTE]Mr Kausch also said "I'm not sure how to avoid situations like this." so he's not saying dancers shouldn't be gawked at, and in fact that's why customers visit R4 or any other Go Go in the first place (I mean its not like you can shoot pool or something). Basically customers visit the club to buy a drink and gawk at half naked women dancing, and sometimes buy ladydrinks and sometimes barfine them. That's basically what occurs in a Go Go.

The reason i was focused on this particular dancer was because I couldn't figure out whether she was new or not, or whether I was confusing her with another dancer, so I was sneaking looks at her more than normal. and of course she is only like 5 feet away. I so believe she is new, or at least I hadn't seen her before on dozens of prior visits to R4. I believe most dancers have better than average situational awareness, as they seem to know who is focused on them and who is not. Of course in R4 a stunner like #15 knows she is being looked at alot, but she will push her ass out and her fake tits forward a bit more when she catches you on an extended glance, and I've never seen her send out a bad vibe to anyone. Now Mai #196 when she notices someone looking she will turn that (amazing) ass right toward and give you a special show. I've seen her get 1000 baht tips a number of times for her special shows on stage. Great girl and great fun, a real gem.

Often I am right at stage side but one time (on a pretty crowded night but barfines were light) I was on the left side but 3/4ths the way back at a table, and I see this very hot girl on stage, but to get a better look I am blocking light out, sort of like someone using binoculars, to get a better look, and sure enough about 20 seconds later the girl on stage is doing the same (hand over her eyes) thing back at me. I couldn't figure out how she could see me that quickly. Its obvious many dancers are scanning the room at all times.

I think this was before I began seeing a lot of Coyotes in there, perhaps a month back, but probably after the "Shutdown Bangkok" demonstrations started going and the convention business decimated, and it was a Tues or Wednesday or something so customer traffic was light. IN fact when I entered the club which was later after 11 pm was exactly ONE customer, sitting on the right, a young guy who had a fairly hot dancer hanging on him. So I go to the left side (one third the way down), and sit on the tiered seating (its setup like Shark in Soi Cowboy like a theater) , so I' m sitting there trying to blend in and an keep a low profile (in fact I had already barfined out a Soi 4 regular bar earlier in the evening) so I am just checking the talent. LOL, no way was I going to blend in. There are 7 or 8 dancers on stage, and most on the hot sidce. A couple dancers on stage immediately start whipping their asses around toward and really turnd it on, and then pointing to their ass and then pointing toward me, but then they start to look (in a fun way) pissed when I am giving the "no thanks no right now" wave off (flat hand signal) and these girls are hot so they start kicking it up even more. (no loss of face here believe me). So I point over toward the mamasan and then point toward them and have my left index finger meet my right index finger, basically telling them they can always get barfined by and get it on with the Mamasan.

Meanwhile looking toward the right side (toward the end of the stage as you enter) as I see this tall, hot, young fresh faced, borderline stunner, with a great ass too, and based on dancer style among other things she's not a Coyote as far as I can tell, so I start to focus on her her from an angle (she can't see me as she is looking toward the entry way to the club) but meanwhile since I am looking toward my right there are girls in the background (on break) sitting down close to floor level (right side as you enter the club) who mistakenly believe I am looking at them. So one of them spreads her legs and pulls her short skirt up toward her chest, basically flashes at me. That's a moment (among others) when you know for sure you're not in London or New York, but instead a sort of hotties land of Oz.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1531177]I'm not sure how to avoid situations like this.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=FRHolmes; 1531338]So to prevent girls from losing face are you saying don't look at them or show interest. What a bunch of crock!

Theres very few girls who can close the deal most of the time. All these face losers seem to be ok with it.

Humiliated because drink was not cumming? Humiliation by being a prostitute- that I can see! I'm humiliated more by being their customers![/QUOTE]I guess my post was too long and one of the main points got buried. Notice I'm acknowledging this situation will come up from time to time and there is no way to avoid it. The ladies do get pressure from management to generate lady drink sales and bar fines. Prostitution is not most ladies' plan A. Many ladies hate working in gogos and drink heavily to cope. Why humiliate yourself? Personally, gogos are low on my list of things to do when I'm in BKK. I prefer the MPs, especially for outcall.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1531638]I guess my post was too long and one of the main points got buried. Notice I'm acknowledging this situation will come up from time to time and there is no way to avoid it. The ladies do get pressure from management to generate lady drink sales and bar fines. Prostitution is not most ladies' plan A. Many ladies hate working in gogos and drink heavily to cope. Why humiliate yourself? Personally, gogos are low on my list of things to do when I'm in BKK. I prefer the MPs, especially for outcall.[/QUOTE]Pressure from management to perform? I just don't see it at the top agogos.

The girls have to be able to work on their own terms, for gods sake they fuck for a living. I'm sure a high pressure mammasan would not have a crew to boss around.

Time after time, most girls wait to be called over before working their charms, if they have any.

I think prostitution is their plan A. From the time they were born, they were groomed to be a hooker! Sad but true.

Can't argue that mps are better places to have sex with strange men.

Stickman also said many girls drink before their shift. If true shouldn't I see more dancers falling off the stage.

I'm not saying prostitution is a good thing. But Thai girls do it better than most.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1531638]I guess my post was too long and one of the main points got buried. Notice I'm acknowledging this situation will come up from time to time and there is no way to avoid it. The ladies do get pressure from management to generate lady drink sales and bar fines. Prostitution is not most ladies' plan A. Many ladies hate working in gogos and drink heavily to cope. Why humiliate yourself? Personally, gogos are low on my list of things to do when I'm in BKK. I prefer the MPs, especially for outcall.[/QUOTE]It seems to me if they work in MPs (Soapies or Oils) , or for that matter are independents working Nana Plaza. Thermae, or Beer Garden or whereever, they are "working girls" and they know it, so I would think they would be drinking up a storm in those venues also. Personally I don't see all this hard drinking by dancers in the Go Go's. Look, if in the west one assumes in a typical american or British city perhaps only 1/2 of 1% of 18 to 35 year old females are "working girls", and in Bangkok it could well be lets say 4%, that means perhaps 8 times as many women (in percentage terms) are in the trade in Bangkok. I believe the type of women that typically gets in the trade in lets say NYC or London are often quite different than a woman getting in the trade in Bangkok. I'm not saying this is an absolute rule, but its generally true.

I don't know the real number (it could be 2x or 6x or 10x, not sure) but obviously its higher multiple in percentage terms in Bangkok than the west, and given the sheer volume of women in the business, that means a lot of normal girls are in the trade, either full time or part-time.

As for the Go's Go's I believe they only make 50 baht per lady drink versus ST where they will make at least 40 times that, so while perhaps reluctant I am not sure if barfining is only a Plan B.

While I like Go Go's, I happen to find regular (non Go Go) bar girls to be quite interesting, with many surprisingly hot, and some perhaps not quite as hot but often with a fun personality, and they can be fun to hang with and/or barfine. Not sure about oils, but the biggest problem i have with soapies, is that you have to pick them w/o checking out whether the vibe is good, (and I'm referring to their perception of you) as one wants a girl that is comfortable with you, otherwise its not good for either party. And soapies there really is no way to check out that vibe ahead of time unless they are sideliners.

For cultural reasons, economic need, even the non judgemental nature of Buddhism itself or other reasons, sex for money (while still looked down upon by many Thais) just doesn't have the degree of stigma in
Bangkok that is typical in the west, and that draws in lots of comparatively normal women, which I believe its a good thing because (all things equal) it means more attractive women are in the trade. And I find if you don't treat them like (skipping the W word) "working girls" they will in turn treat you pretty well.

[QUOTE=Western787;1531815]Personally I don't see all this hard drinking by dancers in the Go Go's.[/QUOTE]My understanding is the gogos have what they call the alcoholics corner where the hardcore drinkers hang out when they're not otherwise occupied. I also understand if you hang out in a gogo before it opens you'll see many of the ladies throwing back one after another shots of Thai whisky to get ready to perform. The last gogo I was in the lady I ended up bar fining was taking shots of tequila as her "lady drinks." She ordered them two at a time and downed three rounds in about ten minutes before going to a short time hotel with me. She was a lot of fun in Spanky's and a lousy fuck.

[QUOTE=Western787;1531815]As for the Go's Go's I believe they only make 50 baht per lady drink versus ST where they will make at least 40 times that, so while perhaps reluctant I am not sure if barfining is only a Plan B.[/QUOTE]At one time the girls had a quota of a minimum number of lady drinks and bar fines per month.

[QUOTE=Western787;1531815]I happen to find regular (non Go Go) bar girls to be quite interesting, with many surprisingly hot, and some perhaps not quite as hot but often with a fun personality, and they can be fun to hang with[/QUOTE]Some claim one reason there are fewer hot girls in the gogos and MPs is more of them are using social media to hook up with men. There you can find pros, semipros and regular girls who are looking for some fun. With more and more younger farangs working good jobs in Bangkok supposedly some Thai ladies are hoping to hook up with a keeper. A year ago I hooked up with a lady in her mid-to-late thirties who spoke Thai, English and Japanese. She said she traveled to the USA and Japan more frequently on business. She was a fashion designer and liked to hook up with mature farang businessmen for dinner, intelligent conversation and sex. She was smart, hot and a very good but different kind of fuck than a SW. Before she left when I reached for my money she objected saying I had already paid for dinner; but then she accept THB500 for a taxi home.

[QUOTE=FRHolmes; 1531808]Pressure from management to perform? I just don't see it at the top agogos.

The girls have to be able to work on their own terms, for gods sake they fuck for a living. I'm sure a high pressure mammasan would not have a crew to boss around.

Time after time, most girls wait to be called over before working their charms, if they have any.

I think prostitution is their plan A. From the time they were born, they were groomed to be a hooker! Sad but true.

Can't argue that mps are better places to have sex with strange men.

Stickman also said many girls drink before their shift. If true shouldn't I see more dancers falling off the stage.

I'm not saying prostitution is a good thing. But Thai girls do it better than most.[/QUOTE]The mamasans do act like hookers or ex hookers all the time, but as far as the Go Go dancers themselves its usually because its very late at night and there is next to zero customers in a club (case I cited was in Fantasia a girl spreading her legs and snapping her dress up to her chest, and girls on stage pointing to their asses and then back at the customer to entice you to bang them) but that'not typical in the major Go Go's such as Rainbow 4 or Baccarra and many other similar venues where (most times) the ladies between sets in fact sit quit demurely or modestly in the corner or stage side, and while invariably looking at customers across the room (note they rarely ever look at the stage) , they rarely follow up. These are not natural hookers, nor do I think most are "groomed". Most I believe are somewhat normal girls in a abnormal business, and the way they act between sets is consistent with that. Of course for the veterans the years can take their toll, but I don't think its their natural personalities at all

If they were even remotely "hooker like" they would certainly be more aggressive, as it seems to me many are leaving money on the table each shift, often missing out on ladydrinks or barfines. Why would a lady "groomed" for this business effetively toss away money? Even if one assumes the demur or shy thing is all an act, these girls are just not earning what they could. Nor (for example in R4 or similar places) do I see much evidence of heavy drinking with, and most in fact appear very sober all night long. I know Stickman has said this, but assuming some are becoming inebriated to allow them to do the job, who pays for all these drinks in the alleged "booze corner?

[QUOTE=Western787;1532102]Nor do I see much evidence of heavy drinking with, and most in fact appear very sober all night long. I know Stickman has said this, but assuming some are becoming inebriated to allow them to do the job, who pays for all these drinks in the alleged "booze corner?[/QUOTE]My personal experiences are most Thai SW drink very little if at all. Some are moderate drinkers; they'll have one drink and nurse it, which is quite a bit of alcohol considering their size. A small number are heavy drinkers. The lady who downed six shots in about ten minutes immediately comes to mind, but on my last trip I had a couple of ladies in my room who downed the better part of a liter of vodka in about 30 minutes. I had the rest. Of course this may just be me. Perhaps they're adjusting their attitude to get up the courage. ;)

In general I find the Thais drink less than people in the Americas and Europe.

Buddha day.

1. I learned Buddha can be bought.

2. Soi Cowboy was open. Only Fantasian and Cascade was open at Nana.

3. Bribers at Nana need to calm down. Having the Plaza closed is lose lose lose. Bribers get nothing, bars get no revenue, and customers lose a day-a day lost for a week tourist is a big deal. I saw a guy at Nana throw his arms up in the air when he noticed the NANa was closed-he wasnt happy.

4. What makes things worse is Friday is the biggest day.

5. Bargirls are not normal. They were dealt a bad hand. Its not coincidence a lot cum from same same part of Thailand. Poverty and hookers go hand in hand.

6. Would like to hear more about what goes on past midnight. Are there any customers? Do the top girls just leave or are they still going for the 3rd or 4th barfine of the night.

7. Not too long ago thing s were still fun approaching 11pm. Not now things start dying out at 10pm.

[QUOTE=FRHolmes;1531808]I think prostitution is their plan A. From the time they were born, they were groomed to be a hooker! Sad but true.[/QUOTE]Even as a generalization I doubt that is correct.

[QUOTE=FRHolmes;1531808]Stickman also said many girls drink before their shift. If true shouldn't I see more dancers falling off the stage.[/QUOTE]Again a broad generalization. I have had girls from agogo clubs who confessed that the whiskey in their LD was cola mixed with water, and others who I almost had to carry to my room as their legs were a bit wobbly from too much drink. I'm sure Stickman is right, but is such behavior exclusive to agogo dancers? Don't we all know co-workers who arrive in the office in the early morning, already deep in their cups?

[QUOTE=FRHolmes;1532119]5. Bargirls are not normal. They were dealt a bad hand. Its not coincidence a lot cum from same same part of Thailand. Poverty and hookers go hand in hand.[/QUOTE]Well, not really. It is a choice to become a bar girl. There are plenty of poor girls from the NE that choose to stay in school. They can take out loans to finish Uni and then have a job. Becoming a bar girl is the easy way out. Most are parasites looking for a host to "take care" of them and their families.

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[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1532218]Well, not really. It is a choice to become a bar girl. Becoming a bar girl is the easy way out. Most are parasites looking for a host to "take care" of them and their families.[/QUOTE]No doubt not at all untrue, although the 'choice' of 'becoming a bargirl' is often made for them in form of exploited childhood / youth, early pregnancy, family economic situation, etc. They are the victims of parasites.

The ones that take to it for a vocation are more like entrepreneurs and if they provide a good product we can be glad. If you let one become a parasite, it's only yourself to blame.

Mark this day in history. Feb 15. Nana Plaza actually looked like high season.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1532218]Becoming a bar girl is the easy way out.[/QUOTE]Parasites? People take whatever they can get.

Many bargirls are virtually forced into it when they have no way out of the families debt problems, and their normal job in a restaurant or whatever it is just not supplying enough money. Many have a child to support and father long gone. Bargirl is also a job. It pays better than many other jobs. What's your problem? Sure, some bargirls are manipulating several boyfriends, but this is not all of them. Many girls have no University degree. Thai society for many years was against girls becoming highly educated, unless brilliant at studies, since the parents believed the daughter would be destined to become a low class house-wife.

If you look down on hookers so much, why fuck them, and why be on the forum at all? Bargirls have an advantage over MP girls, in that they can get money just from dancing and trying to sell drinks. They don't get paid only on a per fuck basis. They can easily avoid customers they don't want to fuck. Sex-shop MP girls can avoid customers too but it seems less common as they have to fuck to make money, so the MP girls really have to put up with more than 50% a-hole customers.

Sure being a bar-girl is an easier way to make money? Why work damn hard for a fraction of the money. These girls who were single mothers at 16 or 18 never had a chance for a high-paying office job. The Thai society is reprehensible for not teaching young girls better on how to avoid pregnancy and how to buy contraceptives, and making sure they all get a proper education.

[QUOTE=Syzygies; 1532471]Parasites? People take whatever they can get.

Many bargirls are virtually forced into it when they have no way out of the families debt problems, and their normal job in a restaurant or whatever it is just not supplying enough money. Many have a child to support and father long gone. Bargirl is also a job. It pays better than many other jobs. What's your problem? Sure, some bargirls are manipulating several boyfriends, but this is not all of them. Many girls have no University degree. Thai society for many years was against girls becoming highly educated, unless brilliant at studies, since the parents believed the daughter would be destined to become a low class house-wife.

If you look down on hookers so much, why fuck them, and why be on the forum at all? Bargirls have an advantage over MP girls, in that they can get money just from dancing and trying to sell drinks. They don't get paid only on a per fuck basis. They can easily avoid customers they don't want to fuck. Sex-shop MP girls can avoid customers too but it seems less common as they have to fuck to make money, so the MP girls really have to put up with more than 50% a-hole customers.

Sure being a bar-girl is an easier way to make money? Why work damn hard for a fraction of the money. These girls who were single mothers at 16 or 18 never had a chance for a high-paying office job. The Thai society is reprehensible for not teaching young girls better on how to avoid pregnancy and how to buy contraceptives, and making sure they all get a proper education.[/QUOTE]I don't look down on hookers at all. Most of society does though, and it is not a job that is sustainable long term. Ever see a happy "old" hooker?

Would you advertise the fact that your gal is / was a prostitute to your family and friends back home? To your colleagues and their wives at a biz dinner? I would say probably not. Should you be able to? Well, I don't know, but this is the reality we have. Maybe one day prostitution will be considered as any other job. Right now that is not the case.

No one is "forced" into the job. It is a choice. Many bargirls have made bad choices and many choose to pay for the bad choices of their families. Nothing turns me off more than to hear some gal say,"have to take care of family." Not noble at all. Just continuing the cycle.

Actually Meechai of Cabbages and Condoms fame did a lot to educated Thais on the prevention of pregnancy and STIs. Sadly the last regime did a lot to remove this type of education, although I would say that one can find condoms everywhere in Thailand. So that is not really an excuse.

Look at the demographics for Unis her Syn. More women than men. There is plenty of gov aid available and open enrollment gov schools are not expensive.

Of course not everyone is Uni material, but jobs for high school grads can pay pretty well now as well. Check the stats, the average salary in Thailand has increased 50% since 2008.

Why fuck them? Because it is available. I would not date, support, or marry one. Of course I would not marry, support, or date a minister either.

[QUOTE=FRHolmes;1532448]Mark this day in history. Feb 15. Nana Plaza actually looked like high season.[/QUOTE]A date which will live in infamy!

[QUOTE=Jazzy Daddy;1529798]Next morning I headed over to tulip after breakfast and was looking for Goff but she was fully booked for the next 3 hours. I saw a young YaYa and we climbed the steps up to the room. After about a half hour of intense passion we asked Cherry to join us for the remaining hour. Nothing like a threesome to start the day.[/QUOTE]How were Yaya and Cherry's skill sets? Good performers? Bodies? Stretch marks?

[QUOTE=FRHolmes; 15321196] Would like to hear more about what goes on past midnight. Are there any customers? Do the top girls just leave or are they still going for the 3rd or 4th barfine of the night[/QUOTE]Even "top girls" are unlikely to have 3 or 4 barfines a night. I think they will go to make merit at the temple and thank the Buddha if they consistently have 2 barfines a night.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1532471]These girls who were single mothers at 16 or 18 never had a chance for a high-paying office job. The Thai society is reprehensible for not teaching young girls better on how to avoid pregnancy and how to buy contraceptives, and making sure they all get a proper education.[/QUOTE]Ah, now I understand why the Republicans and teabaggers, sorry Teaparty, members, object against sex education in schools! They want to make the USA into monger heaven in one generation.

[QUOTE=Wolvenvacht;1532679]Even "top girls" are unlikely to have 3 or 4 barfines a night. I think they will go to make merit at the temple and thank the Buddha if they consistently have 2 barfines a night.[/QUOTE] With some of these dancers, you are seeing just a portion of their business, the tip of the iceberg.

For example in regard to Rainbow 4, some of the stunners often can pick up a long term after midnight, and that alone can be 5, 000 to 6, 000 baht, and some will selectively bareback on those sessions (and I'm not referring to #15 as I don't know what she does, but instead another extremely hot but comparable dancer that i've not alluded to in any way in prior posts) and that can generate some repeat business. I even know of cases where guys are routinely flying in (example from Hong Kong) just to do certain girls. Plus these girls are only at the club usually 4 to 5 hours a day so they can sometimes have appointments before work, and can randomly have on any given day former customers arriving back in town who will contact them, and many of course have guys on an ongoing basis sending them money. As far as 2 barfines a night? LOL, some of these stunners will leave with a customer and you see them back in the club in 40 minutes or less.

4 to 5 customers a day is certainly doable for certain ones, but its not necessarily just going to be all club based..

These stunners are effectively putting themselves out in public, and they have many other options to make money, so one has to figure they wouldn't do it without a large potential payoff. They could go somewhat low profile in a Soapy, but on an average day perhaps only 1/20th the customers are going to be seeing them. In fact there appears to be a lot more stunners working Go Go's these days than in Soapies, (and that includes even places like La Belle) and its has to be about gaining maximum exposure and thereby maximum odds of earning big dollars. Of course many have the mistress option, but not only could it be less dollars but loss of freedom. Now stunners are 99% of the time not going to go on the street, (although I 've seen a few authentic stunners from other clubs work Nana parking lot for brief periods on their off days, but they last about 5 minutes) so Go Go dancing is the alternate way to be seen by many.

The winning formula seems to be stunning looks + maximum exposure to the public + decent personality + positive stage vibe + willingness to take nearly all types of customers, not just Japanese.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1532708]With some of these dancers, you are seeing just a portion of their business.

4 to 5 customers a day is certainly doable for certain ones.

The winning formula seems to be stunning looks + good personality + positive stage vibe + willing to take all types of customers, not just Japanese.[/QUOTE]Absolutely true. See for yourself at Crazy House where certain ones are off the stage, upstairs and back in half-an-hour. Then Repeat. And Repeat.

Believing stunners in go Go's have trouble getting 2 customers a day just doesn't make sense.

Wasn't there a hottie over at Annies last fall and summer who was basically booked solid each day, and in fact she stopped doing overnights because she was so busy? I understand (as I never met her) her personality was good also, and of course she did A level but beyond that her requsites were what? Young, tall, slender, and pretty or in other words she was a stunner.

So why would a comparable girl in a Go Go willing to work just as hard, and put in as many hours, and basically be willing to give up much of her social life, not be earning similar money?

Now admittedly soapie girls (unlike Go Go girls) don't have comparable discretion to turn down customers, so in that sense its a more difficult job, but I don't think that changes the general rule.

Stunners with decent personalities have a certain market value in Bangkok, and while their cash flows can get temporarily disrupted due to unforeseen outside events (such as relentless political protests impacting tourism) , longer term the market will put a premium on their services

[QUOTE=Western787;1532920]Believing stunners in go Go's have trouble getting 2 customers a day just doesn't make sense.[/QUOTE]The over success of ew does not necessarily mean all can line up massive business. They certainly have better chacnes than other or more average providers.

But even if you have a tank of water in the desert and can expect huge business if nobody walks through your tank of water will dry and you will be broke.

Business happens because there are two willing parties. One is the girl. The other one is the customer. Are there customers enough to fill the nights of the stunners with at least 2 customers a day?

I've yet to make my trip to Bangkok but I've got alot of experience in the fkk's of Germany and I'll say one thing about "stunners". Alone, they command everybody's attention. In a group of likewise stunning women their view of themselves starts competing against the others. And many guys just like to look, turning down stunners left and right. And when a girl is turned down in favor of another, doubts start to creep in. I imagine go-go bars are much like the fkk clubs. My preference is much different from the next guy, the girls I'm attracted to are usually a notch below stunner level but have the attributes I prefer. I rarely go for the girls who think too highly of themselves since service usually goes down as the looks go up. There's something to be said about grabbing an attractive girl after she's been turned down by ten guys.

[QUOTE=Breadman;1532925]I've yet to make my trip to Bangkok but I've got alot of experience in the fkk's of Germany and I'll say one thing about "stunners". Alone, they command everybody's attention. In a group of likewise stunning women their view of themselves starts competing against the others. And many guys just like to look, turning down stunners left and right. And when a girl is turned down in favor of another, doubts start to creep in. I imagine go-go bars are much like the fkk clubs. My preference is much different from the next guy, the girls I'm attracted to are usually a notch below stunner level but have the attributes I prefer. I rarely go for the girls who think too highly of themselves since service usually goes down as the looks go up. There's something to be said about grabbing an attractive girl after she's been turned down by ten guys.[/QUOTE]Do us a favor, travel first, rant later. Suggestion: leave your western female psicology wisdom pills at home, they are not of much use in Asia.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1532920]Believing stunners in go Go's have trouble getting 2 customers a day just doesn't make sense.

Wasn't there a hottie over at Annies last fall and summer who was basically booked solid each day, and in fact she stopped doing overnights because she was so busy?[/QUOTE]I think you are thinking of #24 (Aor). She is still booked solid. I was lucky to see her on an overnight outcall in December. I booked it a couple of months in advance and Aey was considerate enough to honor the booking even though she was no longer letting Aor do outcalls. Aor told me from Friday night through Sunday night she goes from client to client with no breaks from the time she arrives until Annie's closes; and she could do outcalls practically every night if Aey would let her. I posted photos and wrote a couple of reviews. When she's not worn out, she's fantastic. Your general point is spot on. The girls with the at least decent looks and a reputation get as much or more business than they can handle. I doubt if the famous Apple at Cherry Massage (when her sister Cherry was still the owner) ever went short for customers.

[QUOTE=Breadman;1532925]I've yet to make my trip to Bangkok but I've got alot of experience in the fkk's of Germany and I'll say one thing about "stunners".[/QUOTE][QUOTE=El Flaco;1532932]Do us a favor, travel first, rant later. Suggestion: leave your western female psicology wisdom pills at home, they are not of much use in Asia.[/QUOTE]Whow cowboy! Get off your high horse. This was not a a rant. The guy acknowledged he has not visited Bangkok, but was sharing his experiences in the fkk's in Germany, which you can verify by reading his posts in the appropriate threads. Mongering practices vary somewhat with geography. I like learning from guys who have experience in other parts of the world. Why are you so hostile toward the guy? Seems like you have a problem. Maybe if you tell us about it we can help you. ;)

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1532957]Whow cowboy! Get off your high horse. This was not a a rant. The guy acknowledged he has not visited Bangkok, but was sharing his experiences in the fkk's in Germany, which you can verify by reading his posts in the appropriate threads. Mongering practices vary somewhat with geography. I like learning from guys who have experience in other parts of the world. Why are you so hostile toward the guy? Seems like you have a problem. Maybe if you tell us about it we can help you. ;)[/QUOTE]. He came up with theories that I know to not apply here. So the suggestion to try things first hand and then reporting instead of throwing long shots. Who hasn't done Thailand can't know how it is and should not speak about it.

[QUOTE=El Flaco;1532981]. He came up with theories that I know to not apply here. So the suggestion to try things first hand and then reporting instead of throwing long shots. Who hasn't done Thailand can't know how it is and should not speak about it.[/QUOTE]Come on, he just gave an insight in to human behavior, not a theory. I agree with his view point. Human behavior is the same all over the world. What is so different in Thailand. I have been to both places and others. It is pretty much the same.

[QUOTE=Duniawala;1532983]Come on, he just gave an insight in to human behavior, not a theory. I agree with his view point. Human behavior is the same all over the world. What is so different in Thailand. I have been to both places and others. It is pretty much the same.[/QUOTE]Yeah. Actually the same-same. Why do we bother to go places then. Give me a break!

[QUOTE=Duniawala;1532983]What is so different in Thailand. I have been to both places and others.[/QUOTE]So when were you last in BKK, how was your trip and where did you stay? Share your experience as its been awhile since you posted a field trip.

[QUOTE=Breadman;1532925]I've yet to make my trip to Bangkok but I've got alot of experience in the fkk's of Germany and I'll say one thing about "stunners". Alone, they command everybody's attention. In a group of likewise stunning women their view of themselves starts competing against the others. And many guys just like to look, turning down stunners left and right. And when a girl is turned down in favor of another, doubts start to creep in. I imagine go-go bars are much like the fkk clubs. My preference is much different from the next guy, the girls I'm attracted to are usually a notch below stunner level but have the attributes I prefer. I rarely go for the girls who think too highly of themselves since service usually goes down as the looks go up. There's something to be said about grabbing an attractive girl after she's been turned down by ten guys.[/QUOTE]If there was a mythical country somewhere so disconnected from the rest of the world that ultra beautiful women didn't know they were stunners, where therefore they offered all the benefits of great beauty w / o the potential downside (example possible egomania) then I would be much more attracted to stunners.

Otherwise cute women below stunner level can to me,have much more appeal. However that said, the sheer number of beauties in Thailand (particularly of course as one moves away from P44 into the broader female population) is so staggering I'm not sure how big the egos really are of typical "stunners" in for example Bangkok Go Go's anyways. The ego issue could be smaller than one might expect. I mean they have to notice the volume of beauties in this city, as ultra beautiful women seem to be everywhere. IMHO. New York doesn't compare nor does London.

Certainly many attractive women in Bangkok slightly below stunner level, don't quite seem to get-it as to how hot they would be if for example they lived in London or New York.

Not sure how you can compare stunners in the realm of FKK's versus in the context of Bangkok Go's Go's. Everyone has to pay to enter a FKK? Isn't that true? So the numbers of guys seeing a particular "stunner" is somewhat limited i would think. A large club like Rainbow 4 can on a busy weekend night have 500 plus patrons visiting that club over the evening. Isn't that 15 to 20 times a typical FKK? And the volume of customers is significant in regard to the question presented by the OP.

Note the OP said "'Even "top girls" are unlikely to have 3 or 4 barfines a night. I think they will go to make merit at the temple and thank the Buddha if they consistently have 2 barfines a night."

My point was that stunners within the same overall market (example Bangkok P4P) assuming they are also somewhat personable, willing to work hard, willing to give up a lot of their normal social life, and not too fussy about customers are generally going to be high earners, and even among different venues (Soapies. Go's Go's or wherever) over time the market itself will tend to equalize those earnings to some degree.

If El Flaco has a valid point it it this: when you're talking about "stunners" in one of the most advanced 1st world countries on the planet (example Germany) vs stunners in a city like Bangkok (that is within a 2nd world nation like Thailand), its gets a bit muddled up especially if you never visited Bangkok and seen for yourself all the beautiful women that are in this city.

[QUOTE=Duniawala;1532983]Come on, he just gave an insight in to human behavior, not a theory. I agree with his view point. Human behavior is the same all over the world. What is so different in Thailand. I have been to both places and others. It is pretty much the same.[/QUOTE]Minus the (usual bar girl type BS tall tales of various types usually tried on newbies) when you get right down to their basic personalities, Bangkok hotties (P4P or otherwise) GENERALLY seem to be a lot more modest and less affected than one might normally expect to encounter with comparable level 1st world women. THAT I believe is the basis of their appeal to westerners. They are certainly less spoiled, appreciate smaller things a lot more, and minus the (often business required) bullbleep, they are often surprisingly decent people.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1533004]If there was a mythical country somewhere so disconnected from the rest of the world that ultra beautiful women didn't know they were stunners, where therefore they offered all the benefits of great beauty w / o the potential downside (example possible egomania) then I would be much more attracted to stunners.

Otherwise cute women below stunner level can to me, have much more appeal. However that said, the sheer number of beauties in Thailand (particularly of course as one moves away from P44 into the broader female population) is so staggering I'm not sure how big the egos really are of typical "stunners" in for example Bangkok Go Go's anyways. I meanthey have to notice the volume of beauties in this city, as ultra beautiful women seem to be everywhere. IMHO. New York doesn't compare nor does London.

Certainly many attractive women in Bangkok slightly below stunner level, don't quite seem to get-it as to how hot they would be if for example they lived in London or New York.

Not sure how you can compare stunners in the realm of FKK's versus in the context of Bangkok Go's Go's. Everyone has to pay to enter a FKK? Isn't that true? So the numbers of guys seeing a particular "stunner" is somewhat limited I would think. A large club like Rainbow 4 can on a busy weekend night have 500 plus patrons visiting that club over the evening. Isn't that 15 to 20 times a typical FKK? And the volume of customers is significant in regard to the question presented by the OP.

Note the OP said "'Even "top girls" are unlikely to have 3 or 4 barfines a night. I think they will go to make merit at the temple and thank the Buddha if they consistently have 2 barfines a night."

My point was that stunners, assuming they are also somewhat personable, diligent, willing to give up a lot of their normal social life, and not too fussy about customers are generally going to be high earners, and even among different venues (Soapies. Go's Go's or wherever) over time the market itself will tend to equalize those earnings to some degree.[/QUOTE]Some food for thought there.

Actually Thailand and BKK specifically has changed immeasurably in the 15 years I have lived here. Back in '99 the city was far less sophisticated, had just opened its first Starbucks, The Emporium was the showcase mall, Paragon did not exist, women's fashion was years behind the West, women were still second class citizens, and the region was still reeling from the Asian crisis. Therefore lots more gals from all regions in the P4P scene.

Cowboy was an expat hangout with very little neon. 400 baht barfines. 1k all night, and 80 baht drinks. Thermae was filled with semi-pros toward the end of the month. Gals who came out a few times a month to supplement their small office salaries. Most of the punters were Western men mid to late 40s up, with the average age being 50ish. At 34 I was about the youngest in any bar or FL venue I would enter. There were a few Japanese about but they mainly stayed in Thaniya and rarely ventured to Nana or Cowboy. From my perspective attitudes were great and prices were very reasonable.

Fast forward a decade and a half and BKK is a sophisticated world class city with a foodie scene, boutique coffee roasters, average salaries that have increased 50% since '08, far more non-Westerners working and visiting here, countless young Farangs both male and female employed here, a thriving fashion scene, and women who now realize how attractive they are to the rest of the world's men. They dress well and there has been a bit of sexual revolution here. This week's BK Magazine talks about the best Valentine's sex positions and interviews some women about very naughty subjects. Could not have been done 10 years ago. Thai women are out screwing. A Durex survey two years ago shows them as the second most promiscuous in the world, behind only Ghana. This is what you get when women become aware and don't have the awful mantle of Christianity to throw off. What I would not give to be 34 again and in BKK now. I have many younger friends here who are dating smoking hot "regular" Thai girls. White skinned, educated, with good jobs. Gals whose families are not parasites. Gals who actually contribute to the relationship and bring more than the wetspot between their legs. These gals were just not available when I was a young buck in BKK. In the time since more and more have gone abroad to study, more Intl schools have opened here, and more internationals live in BKK. It is truly a world class city.

On the other hand, all of this has had a negative effect on the mongering scene. There are just fewer gals in the scene. Less competition mean higher prices, poor attitudes, and poor service. The gals call the shots and have for a time now. I remember a few years ago when a friend who owns several gogos in Cowboy and Nana said to me," These girls used to work for me; now I work for them." I think that is true all over the scene.

Being an oily guy I have noticed the changes in it as well. There are still some good gals to be found, but the combination of performance and looks is very hard to find. Oddly with more and more oilies opening the service has gotten worse not better. Lookers now flock to shops where they can get away with CBJ. 1 pop, and little effort, so in order to keep even moderately good looking gals the PSE shops have to allow them more leeway.

The writing is on the wall. The P4P scene will continue to change, and probably not for the better. With higher salaries in Thailand fewer and fewer gals will choose the biz and those that do will not be the cream of the crop. They really never were. One has to ask, with women achieving political and economic power (Thailand has more female CEOs than any other nation) , how long can places like Cowboy, Nana, and the huge soapy places survive? Not forever folks when over half your electorate is female. Enjoy it while you can.

[QUOTE=Western787;1533012]Minus the (usual bar girl type BS tall tales of various types usually tried on newbies) when you get right down to their basic personalities, Bangkok hotties (P4P or otherwise) GENERALLY seem to be a lot more modest and less affected than one might normally expect to encounter with comparable level 1st world women. THAT I believe is the basis of their appeal to westerners. They are certainly less spoiled, appreciate smaller things a lot more, and minus the (often business required) bullbleep, they are often surprisingly decent people.[/QUOTE]That is changing very quickly.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1533021]That is changing very quickly.[/QUOTE]Lets hope it lasts or some elements last a big longer, but yes I understand that change is occurring. Must have been pretty good 10 to 15 years back I would imagine. The alternatives don't look that good either, as I hear even in Burma they've gone from modest to spoiled in only a few years.

"Enjoy it while you can". NOw that is a good point.

Even though change is rapidly occuring in Bangkok, consider that feminist ballbusting in the west is getting worse all the time. Now at some point inspired by the west (and perhaps a President Hillary Clinton in the White House who will be delivering payback to her husband who among other things will be forced to wear an Apron and do vacuuming and dusting) Ms Clinton will be busy ballbusting in other countries, and feminists will overtake even Bangkok and probably turn the large soapie palaces into Feminist Indoctrination Buildings. For example Poseidan's 10 story building will be used to teach BALLBUSTING 101 and have special seminars on "How to turn men into Enuchs". The Lord building could well be turned into a prison for males questioning the superiority of females.

Yup, enjoy whats here, because change is on the way.

I've been an intermittent visitor for about twenty years, mostly on business with a little mongering on the side. The city has changed dramatically and in my opinion for the better. I'm not sure how much change I've seen in the mongering scene. I've also changed which confounds my perceptions. Seems like the quality has gone down. I wouldn't say the same about the quantity. There may just have been a shift in the sizes of different segments of the industry. As I've grown older very young women who might not have gotten a second glance from me in the past now look attractive; and what were once older ladies now look like younger ladies to me. Even with my glasses on, I question what I see.

Is the P4P scene changing? Everything changes; and changes everywhere seem to be accelerating. Will the current pattern of declining quality, poorer service and increasing prices continue? Don't be so sure. First, I'm not sure prices, adjusted for inflation, have gone up that much. I bet rents in Nana Plaza and Soi Cowboy have inflated more than the cost of drinks and bar fines. I'm not sure the ladies are charging more than their cost of living has increased. Maybe. I'm just not sure. My point is inflation is relative. Is the problem price increases in Bangkok or the failure of salaries and wages in developed countries to keep up with prices in Bangkok? Certainly in recent years Thailand's economy has grown more than the USA and EU.

Second, most people, even many so called experts, see change as a simple linear equation. A straight line with some defined slope. What is happening today will continue to happen in the future at some rate of change (the slope of the line). The problem is change, other than over very short intervals, is nonlinear. Not only do the rates of change accelerate and decelerate, the directions change as well. Think of the old saying, "What goes up must come down."

The current situation in Thailand is relevant to this point. At this moment the consensus opinion of economists in Thailand is the most likely future for the country is rather bleak. That is not to say they believe it will happen. They are saying of all the future possibilities the one that is most likely is very worrisome. There is very real concern that the costs of the rice scheme and the damage it has done to the rice industry have crossed the tipping point. Thailand has been supplanted by India and Vietnam and it will be a battle for Thailand to recapture market share. Japan, who is the largest investor in the Thai economy, rather than expanding it's industrial activities in Thailand is now looking at other countries for future investments. The amount of future debt Thailand's government will be forced to take on and the expected future cost of borrowing will take up more and more of the budget. This is a problem facing other countries, notably the USA, but Thailand's economy is smaller, the baht is not the US$ and the USA has a bunch of aircraft carriers. More money spent servicing debt means less money for infrastructure improvements, public education, health care, etc. The future these economists see is government default on debt (national bankruptcy is the term they are using), high unemployment and a declining standard of living.

As I was flying across the Pacific after my December visit I was wonder: what impact has the rice scheme had on the P4P industry? Rice farmers have been getting 50% above market for rice, which pumps a lot of extra money into the rural economy. There's a lot more money in circulation in many villages in large parts of the country. Would a few thousand more pretty young ladies from villages all over Thailand have descended on Bangkok over the past couple of years had it not been for the inflated prices farmers got for their rice? Sensible people think the rice scheme must and will soon end. But how many sensible people are in the government? It may end when the next government assumes power and starts to deal with the current mess. After a year or so will this mean an increase in the number of pretty young ladies dancing in the gogos? I don't know. Perhaps. Will the rice scheme be continued by the next government. Maybe, but only for a while. It is unsustainable and continuing it will only compress the time frame until the future crash the economists worry about occurs. And if that crash happens, I'm fairly confident the dance stages will be packed with pretty young ladies.

I don't know enough to know if these smart guys are right. I know enough to know I should always question my conclusions. And I've lived long enough to know the only constant is change and change constantly changes.

The Rice Scheme and the debt created is only half the issue, because if this political stalemate continues, and the economy stays stagnant, they risk going into a full blown recession, particularly as the Japanese and other foreign entities reduce investment. I would rather see less beautiful P4P women available, less providers and Thailand an economic success because that is what the people deserve, but right now it looks like there is no end in sight to this political mess, and that will mean continued low rents on apartments, huge problems in the Condo market, and continued stabilized hotel prices, and (all things equal) more and more beautiful women entering the trade.

Another (and a plus for those that understand Bangkok) mega factor a few years back was that movie HANGOVER PART 2 which I believe has caused many westerners to avoid Bangkok. As the late movie critic Roger Ebert said "I'm no expert, but I've been to Bangkok, and while the city no doubt has a seamy side, let it be said that much of "The Hangover, Part II" plays like an anti-travelogue paid for by a rival tourist destination — Singapore, maybe." Many people I know in fact have cited that movie as an authoritative guide as to why Bangkok should be avoided. They actually believe tourists cannot tell who is a lady and who is a man. Complete rubbish but one necessary for the central joke in the movie, and of course while an ongoing annoyance factor in Bangkok, in substance a minor issue in regard to the total Bangkok experience. The bottom line: less sex tourists means more available women.

Are the ATMs in Asoke at CityBank the only ones that do not apply the 150 Bath surcharge for withdrawals these days? Has anyone come over CityBank ATM's in any other locations than Asoke?

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1533020]What I would not give to be 34 again and in BKK now. I have many younger friends here who are dating smoking hot "regular" Thai girls. White skinned, educated, with good jobs. Gals whose families are not parasites. Gals who actually contribute to the relationship and bring more than the wetspot between their legs. These gals were just not available when I was a young buck in BKK.[/QUOTE]Funny, my GF and I were discussing this a few days ago. She says that lots of "regular" girls were always available, but were very difficult to meet. She credits the Internet for facilitating said meetings. It's now much easier than '99 (my first visit to the big mango) to meet and date "professional" Thai ladies. No, not THAT profession. :D

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1533085]Funny, my GF and I were discussing this a few days ago. She says that lots of "regular" girls were always available, but were very difficult to meet. She credits the Internet for facilitating said meetings. It's now much easier than '99 (my first visit to the big mango) to meet and date "professional" Thai ladies. No, not THAT profession. :D[/QUOTE]Perhaps they were, but as you stated they were not that easy to meet, and I think 15 years ago there was far more of a stigma associated with dating a Western dude. The gal was automatically assumed to be a working girl. Now that is not the case.

Most of the younger guys I know here would never consider paying outright for sex. Strange.

[QUOTE=Western787;1533028]Lets hope it lasts or some elements last a big longer, but yes I understand that change is occurring. Must have been pretty good 10 to 15 years back I would imagine. The alternatives don't look that good either, as I hear even in Burma they've gone from modest to spoiled in only a few years.[/QUOTE]Sadly the options are dwindling.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch; 1533064]I've been an intermittent visitor for about twenty years, mostly on business with a little mongering on the side. The city has changed dramatically and in my opinion for the better. I'm not sure how much change I've seen in the mongering scene. I've also changed which confounds my perceptions. Seems like the quality has gone down. I wouldn't say the same about the quantity. There may just have been a shift in the sizes of different segments of the industry. As I've grown older very young women who might not have gotten a second glance from me in the past now look attractive; and what were once older ladies now look like younger ladies to me. Even with my glasses on, I question what I see.

Is the P4P scene changing? Everything changes; and changes everywhere seem to be accelerating. Will the current pattern of declining quality, poorer service and increasing prices continue? Don't be so sure. First, I'm not sure prices, adjusted for inflation, have gone up that much. I bet rents in Nana Plaza and Soi Cowboy have inflated more than the cost of drinks and bar fines. I'm not sure the ladies are charging more than their cost of living has increased. Maybe. I'm just not sure. My point is inflation is relative. Is the problem price increases in Bangkok or the failure of salaries and wages in developed countries to keep up with prices in Bangkok? Certainly in recent years Thailand's economy has grown more than the USA and EU.

Second, most people, even many so called experts, see change as a simple linear equation. A straight line with some defined slope. What is happening today will continue to happen in the future at some rate of change (the slope of the line). The problem is change, other than over very short intervals, is nonlinear. Not only do the rates of change accelerate and decelerate, the directions change as well. Think of the old saying,"What goes up must come down."

The current situation in Thailand is relevant to this point. At this moment the consensus opinion of economists in Thailand is the most likely future for the country is rather bleak. That is not to say they believe it will happen. They are saying of all the future possibilities the one that is most likely is very worrisome. There is very real concern that the costs of the rice scheme and the damage it has done to the rice industry have crossed the tipping point. Thailand has been supplanted by India and Vietnam and it will be a battle for Thailand to recapture market share. Japan, who is the largest investor in the Thai economy, rather than expanding it's industrial activities in Thailand is now looking at other countries for future investments. The amount of future debt Thailand's government will be forced to take on and the expected future cost of borrowing will take up more and more of the budget. This is a problem facing other countries, notably the USA, but Thailand's economy is smaller, the baht is not the US$ and the USA has a bunch of aircraft carriers. More money spent servicing debt means less money for infrastructure improvements, public education, health care, etc. The future these economists see is government default on debt (national bankruptcy is the term they are using) , high unemployment and a declining standard of living.

As I was flying across the Pacific after my December visit I was wonder: what impact has the rice scheme had on the P4P industry? Rice farmers have been getting 50% above market for rice, which pumps a lot of extra money into the rural economy. There's a lot more money in circulation in many villages in large parts of the country. Would a few thousand more pretty young ladies from villages all over Thailand have descended on Bangkok over the past couple of years had it not been for the inflated prices farmers got for their rice? Sensible people think the rice scheme must and will soon end. But how many sensible people are in the government? It may end when the next government assumes power and starts to deal with the current mess. After a year or so will this mean an increase in the number of pretty young ladies dancing in the gogos? I don't know. Perhaps. Will the rice scheme be continued by the next government. Maybe, but only for a while. It is unsustainable and continuing it will only compress the time frame until the future crash the economists worry about occurs. And if that crash happens, I'm fairly confident the dance stages will be packed with pretty young ladies.

I don't know enough to know if these smart guys are right. I know enough to know I should always question my conclusions. And I've lived long enough to know the only constant is change and change constantly changes.[/QUOTE]Perhaps the most important thing to consider is the changing role of women in Thai society. The feminist attitudes are here. University women's studies programs are gaining ground and women are no longer men's footstools. As time marches on they will put up with less and less and will in less time than we thinks be as demanding and hard to deal with as women in the West. To me that is the biggest indicator that change will continue, and for the monger, not for the better.

[QUOTE=Western787;1533078]The Rice Scheme and the debt created is only half the issue, because if this political stalemate continues, and the economy stays stagnant, they risk going into a full blown recession, particularly as the Japanese and other foreign entities reduce investment. I would rather see less beautiful P4P women available, less providers and Thailand an economic success because that is what the people deserve[/QUOTE]I agree with your sentiments about the Thai people. Your point about the impact of the political stalemate is also spot on.

[QUOTE=Western787;1533078]Another (and a plus for those that understand Bangkok) mega factor a few years back was that movie HANGOVER PART 2[/QUOTE]Didn't see any of the Hangover films. I find it amusing that anyone would believe anything they see in a movie. Oh well, like Henry Mencken once wrote,"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." Guess that applies to people from other countries as well.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1533099]Perhaps the most important thing to consider is the changing role of women in Thai society. The feminist attitudes are here. University women's studies programs are gaining ground and women are no longer men's footstools. As time marches on they will put up with less and less and will in less time than we thinks be as demanding and hard to deal with as women in the West. To me that is the biggest indicator that change will continue, and for the monger, not for the better.[/QUOTE]This is one possibility. And you may very well be right. But if the government goes broke and unemployment reaches double digits, will that trend continue? The country won't be able to afford it's current education system and every able member of a family will be pressured to generate income from somewhere. As Billy Kwan said in [I]The Year of Living Dangerously[/I], "Starvation is a powerful aphrodisiac."

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1533104]This is one possibility. And you may very well be right. But if the government goes broke and unemployment reaches double digits, will that trend continue? The country won't be able to afford it's current education system and every able member of a family will be pressured to generate income from somewhere. As Billy Kwan said in [I]The Year of Living Dangerously[/I], "Starvation is a powerful aphrodisiac."[/QUOTE]Good point! Could happen.

[QUOTE=El Flaco;1532988]Yeah. Actually the same-same. Why do we bother to go places then. Give me a break![/QUOTE]Give us all a break and start adding some content, rather than littering the forum with your put-downs.

[QUOTE=Western787;1533078]Another (and a plus for those that understand Bangkok) mega factor a few years back was that movie HANGOVER PART 2 which I believe has caused many westerners to avoid Bangkok. As the late movie critic Roger Ebert said "I'm no expert, but I've been to Bangkok, and while the city no doubt has a seamy side, let it be said that much of "The Hangover, Part II" plays like an anti-travelogue paid for by a rival tourist destination — Singapore, maybe." Many people I know in fact have cited that movie as an authoritative guide as to why Bangkok should be avoided. They actually believe tourists cannot tell who is a lady and who is a man. Complete rubbish but one necessary for the central joke in the movie, and of course while an ongoing annoyance factor in Bangkok, in substance a minor issue in regard to the total Bangkok experience. The bottom line: less sex tourists means more available women.[/QUOTE]How funny, I saw that movie just before I came back to Thailand (after many years absence) and I found it wonderful to go trying to see the places shown in the movie.

[QUOTE=Wolvenvacht;1533124]Give us all a break and start adding some content, rather than littering the forum with your put-downs.[/QUOTE]Will be happy to oblige when having something worth. But let me note that you also post a lot more opinion that facts.

[QUOTE=Breadman;1532925]I've yet to make my trip to Bangkok but I've got alot of experience in the fkk's of Germany and I'll say one thing about "stunners". Alone, they command everybody's attention. In a group of likewise stunning women their view of themselves starts competing against the others. And many guys just like to look, turning down stunners left and right. And when a girl is turned down in favor of another, doubts start to creep in. I imagine go-go bars are much like the fkk clubs. My preference is much different from the next guy, the girls I'm attracted to are usually a notch below stunner level but have the attributes I prefer. I rarely go for the girls who think too highly of themselves since service usually goes down as the looks go up. There's something to be said about grabbing an attractive girl after she's been turned down by ten guys.[/QUOTE]I have traveled around the world and have found your comment applies regardless of the venue. Seems some guys here are jealous because you understand women and the dynamics of mongering much better than they do. Appreciate you sharing your insights.

[QUOTE=Xwery;1533079]Are the ATMs in Asoke at CityBank the only ones that do not apply the 150 Bath surcharge for withdrawals these days? Has anyone come over CityBank ATM's in any other locations than Asoke?[/QUOTE]So far as I am aware they went to the 150 bt rip off fee before Aeon just did. For I do remember giving it a test run, months ago, at the Citibank location in Central World.

[QUOTE=Western787;1533078]Another (and a plus for those that understand Bangkok) mega factor a few years back was that movie HANGOVER PART 2 which I believe has caused many westerners to avoid Bangkok.[/QUOTE]I think you hugely overestimate the importance a movie like that might have in influencing the tourist market. It plays to a certain franchise, and those who might be alarmed about ladyboys are probably not in that target audience. Would anyone really not go to say Europe, having seen 'Taken'?

[QUOTE=Mouse1;1533337]I think you hugely overestimate the importance a movie like that might have in influencing the tourist market. It plays to a certain franchise, and those who might be alarmed about ladyboys are probably not in that target audience. Would anyone really not go to say Europe, having seen 'Taken'?[/QUOTE]

You're analogy is not very good.

Name major movies in the last 10 to 15 years shown in american theaters (out of the 200 to 300 introduced each year) where the central focus has been on Bangkok itself. Off the cuff, I can only think of two: (the very low box office) BANGKOK DANGEROUS and then of course HANGOVER 2, with the first one opening with Nicolas Cage calling the city "dirty and dangerous" but otherwise being somewhat positive in that it at least puts out a reasonably accurate representation of a G club

Now name major movies introduced in the west where the central focus was some (non UK) European or Eastern European locale. In fact there are 100's, too many to list.

HANGOVER 2 (although pretty idiotic at times) was not only focused on Bangkok (itself unusual) but was a mega blockbuster seen by a massive audience, 3 times the audience of TAKEN, and it focused on a very precise location (not a generic Europe) and involved an area of the world (vs Europe) that few people in the West have any direct exposure to, and thus can be easily influenced by.

The central joke in the movie in fact was the ladyboy issue. In Tilac they used real females as dancers, but later portrayed it as a ladyboy bar, then they got an actor for the joke in the dressing room with a higher than normal voice or perhaps even dubbed. That joke is what many people remember about the movie.To suggest one cannot tell the difference between ladyboys and real women is complete nonsense, yet people believe this.

Not sure how one makes an analogy to TAKEN which basically follows the politically correct line about "trafficked women"
I also cited perhaps (once the biggest movie critic in the business) as himself saying HANGOVER 2 ran like an anti-Bangkok travelogue. How many times does a critic say something like that?

Never underestimate the influence of pop culture (movies, TV, celebrities) on people's perceptions, particularly in an age of an increasingly semi-literate western population. If you want to see how movies and TV can not just reflect but act as a causative factor, check out the history of the MIAMI VICE televisions series in the 1980's, and how it impacted Miami and people's perceptions of that city. It was a huge factor.

I've just started writing my checklist and bought a backpack yesterday, I'm so excited. Arriving to Suvarnabhumi 4 March and will try to find my way in to this occupied mega city, damn I haven't scored since August.

So, where's the place to go for a couple of frustrated blue balls of mine, Nana Plaza, Patpong or Soi Cowboy?

I know you can go ST for 500 B in Pattaya, even with good looking girls (though I know there are many farang over paying) can one do in BKK too or what's the (correct) rate there?

I'm just looking for bar hopping, beer sipping, music, pool tables and lots of hot girls to choose from.

See you fellows.

I agree with your assessment. There was supposed to be a movie called Bangkok 8 based on Burdett's novel of the same name but apparently the film has been cancelled. This movie, if it ever made, would certainly focus on Bangkok's seamy side. It is a great book for those with an afternoon on the beach to spare.

Let's not forget the King and I too. LOL!

[QUOTE=Western787; 1533376]You're analogy is not very good.

Name major movies in the last 10 to 15 years shown in american theaters (out of the 200 to 300 introduced each year) where the central focus has been on Bangkok itself. Off the cuff, I can only think of two: (the very low box office) BANGKOK DANGEROUS and then of course HANGOVER 2, with the first one opening with Nicolas Cage calling the city "dirty and dangerous" but otherwise being somewhat positive in that it at least puts out a reasonably accurate representation of a G club

Now name major movies introduced in the west where the central focus was some (non UK) European or Eastern European locale. In fact there are 100's, too many to list.

HANGOVER 2 (although pretty idiotic at times) was not only focused on Bangkok (itself unusual) but was a mega blockbuster seen by a massive audience. 3 times the audience of TAKEN, and it focused on a very precise location (not a generic Europe) and involved an area of the world (vs Europe) that few people in the West have any direct exposure to, and thus can be easily influenced by.

The central joke in the movie in fact was the ladyboy issue. In Tilac they used real females as dancers, but later portrayed it as a ladyboy bar, then they got an actor for the joke in the dressing room with a higher than normal voice or perhaps even dubbed. That joke is what many people remember about the movie. To suggest one cannot tell the difference between ladyboys and real women is complete nonsense, yet people believe this.

Not sure how one makes an analogy to TAKEN which basically follows the politically correct line about "trafficked women"

I also cited perhaps (once the biggest movie critic in the business) as himself saying HANGOVER 2 ran like an anti-Bangkok travelogue. How many times does a critic say something like that?

Never underestimate the influence of pop culture (movies, TV, celebrities) on people's perceptions, particularly in an age of an increasingly semi-literate western population. If you want to see how movies and TV can not just reflect but act as a causative factor, check out the history of the MIAMI VICE televisions series in the 1980's, and how it impacted Miami and people's perceptions of that city. It was a huge factor.[/QUOTE]

I agree with your assessment. There was supposed to be a movie called Bangkok 8 based on Burdett's novel of the same name but it apparently the film has been cancelled. This movie, if it ever made, would certainly focus on Bangkok's seamy side. It is a great book for those with an afternoon on the beach to spare.

Let's not forget the King and I too. LOL!

[QUOTE=Western787; 1533376]You're analogy is not very good.

Name major movies in the last 10 to 15 years shown in american theaters (out of the 200 to 300 introduced each year) where the central focus has been on Bangkok itself. Off the cuff, I can only think of two: (the very low box office) BANGKOK DANGEROUS and then of course HANGOVER 2, with the first one opening with Nicolas Cage calling the city "dirty and dangerous" but otherwise being somewhat positive in that it at least puts out a reasonably accurate representation of a G club

Now name major movies introduced in the west where the central focus was some (non UK) European or Eastern European locale. In fact there are 100's, too many to list.

HANGOVER 2 (although pretty idiotic at times) was not only focused on Bangkok (itself unusual) but was a mega blockbuster seen by a massive audience. 3 times the audience of TAKEN, and it focused on a very precise location (not a generic Europe) and involved an area of the world (vs Europe) that few people in the West have any direct exposure to, and thus can be easily influenced by.

The central joke in the movie in fact was the ladyboy issue. In Tilac they used real females as dancers, but later portrayed it as a ladyboy bar, then they got an actor for the joke in the dressing room with a higher than normal voice or perhaps even dubbed. That joke is what many people remember about the movie. To suggest one cannot tell the difference between ladyboys and real women is complete nonsense, yet people believe this.

Not sure how one makes an analogy to TAKEN which basically follows the politically correct line about "trafficked women"

I also cited perhaps (once the biggest movie critic in the business) as himself saying HANGOVER 2 ran like an anti-Bangkok travelogue. How many times does a critic say something like that?

Never underestimate the influence of pop culture (movies, TV, celebrities) on people's perceptions, particularly in an age of an increasingly semi-literate western population. If you want to see how movies and TV can not just reflect but act as a causative factor, check out the history of the MIAMI VICE televisions series in the 1980's, and how it impacted Miami and people's perceptions of that city. It was a huge factor.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=CockTeased; 1533389]I've just started writing my checklist and bought a backpack yesterday, I'm so excited. Arriving to Suvarnabhumi 4 March and will try to find my way in to this occupied mega city, damn I haven't scored since August.

So, where's the place to go for a couple of frustrated blue balls of mine, Nana Plaza, Patpong or Soi Cowboy?

I know you can go ST for 500 B in Pattaya, even with good looking girls (though I know there are many farang over paying) can one do in BKK too or what's the (correct) rate there?

I'm just looking for bar hopping, beer sipping, music, pool tables and lots of hot girls to choose from.

See you fellows.[/QUOTE]Given Soi Cowboy is adjacent to a major SHUTDOWN BANGKOK encampment on Soi 21 (only the eastern entrance is completely unblocked) so that means Nana Plaza along with Soi 4 pool bars and Nana Parking Lot girls are the best bet. There are at least 7 or 8 major pool bars around Soi 4 and they can have over the course of the day a pretty decent and constantly shifting inventory of girls, and they are open by 10 AM. (note newer girls often have to work mornings among other times) Plus you got Beer Garden on Soi 7 open all day with slightly older girls, but sometimes younger and hotter women after 7 pm, but not many Go Go level of course, and after 10 PM a pretty good inventory of cute girls will start to build at Thermae Coffee House (Sukumvit Road between Soi 13 and Soi 15), but the Japanese are favored, but westerners can pick up sometimes. Add the Go Go's in Nana Plaza which open at 8 PM, and that's at least 1000 girls to select from on any given day just in that general vicinity. I'm not even counting various small massage parlors which are all over the place.

Soi Cowboy still worth going to, (Baccarra especially) but its a hassle to get to if you're coming from lets say the Soi 11 area.

As for Patpong, I would consider it more of a backup.

Many oil message parlors are around Soi 33 and across Sukhumvit at Soi 24/1 and if you got the dollars, you can go to Huay Khwang Station (MRT subway) in Ratchada and there are huge Soapies with perhaps on a combined basis offering 600 to 800 girls on some nights, plus more large soapies on New Petchburi Road,

[QUOTE=Western787; 1533376]You're analogy is not very good.

Name major movies in the last 10 to 15 years shown in american theaters (out of the 200 to 300 introduced each year) where the central focus has been on Bangkok itself. Off the cuff, I can only think of two: (the very low box office) BANGKOK DANGEROUS and then of course HANGOVER 2, with the first one opening with Nicolas Cage calling the city "dirty and dangerous" but otherwise being somewhat positive in that it at least puts out a reasonably accurate representation of a G club[/QUOTE]Did Las Vegas conferences and gambling take a dive after HANGOVER 1? I think there are more movies that show Las Vegas in a bad light than there are movies that show Bangkok as a dangerous place.

I think the effect of movies on tourism is next to nothing.

[QUOTE=Wolvenvacht; 1533589]Did Las Vegas conferences and gambling take a dive after HANGOVER 1? I think there are more movies that show Las Vegas in a bad light than there are movies that show Bangkok as a dangerous place.

I think the effect of movies on tourism is next to nothing.[/QUOTE]You can just imagine the conversation:

'Darling, where shall we go for our annual vacation this year? '

'Somewhere with sun, beaches, culture, food. How about Thailand? '

'Great idea, honey, the kids will love it, and we'll have a great time too in the Land of Smiles'.

'No, wait, I forgot, remember that movie Hangover? I reckon that was a pretty realistic description of one of the tourism capitals of the world. And damn, some of the ladies have got testicles! '

'Well that would ruin my holiday. Honey, there is no way we are going there! '

I have friends who are off to Thailand next week and aren't bothered by the ongoing troubles, let alone a crap frat-pack movie.

[QUOTE=Mouse1; 1533647]You can just imagine the conversation:

'Darling, where shall we go for our annual vacation this year? '

'Somewhere with sun, beaches, culture, food. How about Thailand? '

'Great idea, honey, the kids will love it, and we'll have a great time too in the Land of Smiles'.

'No, wait, I forgot, remember that movie Hangover? I reckon that was a pretty realistic description of one of the tourism capitals of the world. And damn, some of the ladies have got testicles! '

'Well that would ruin my holiday. Honey, there is no way we are going there! '

I have friends who are off to Thailand next week and aren't bothered by the ongoing troubles, let alone a crap frat-pack movie.[/QUOTE]To Mouse 1

I been going to Bangkok 2 time a yr for over 20 yr from the US and I was there few week ago during the shut down and have a good time more girl avalible not many monger, I don't think Bangkok is a dangerous city there are worst crime city in asia like Manila or Jarkata, I don't why anyone will skip Bangkok or Thailand because of a dumb movie.

Fast Eddie 48.

Fast Eddie 48

[QUOTE=Fast Eddie 48; 1533663]To Mouse 1

I been going to Bangkok 2 time a yr for over 20 yr from the US and I was there few week ago during the shut down and have a good time more girl avalible not many monger, I don't think Bangkok is a dangerous city there are worst crime city in asia like Manila or Jarkata, I don't why anyone will skip Bangkok or Thailand because of a dumb movie.

Fast Eddie 48.

Fast Eddie 48[/QUOTE]Yea! I'm with you, Eddie. I'm out to BKK in a couple of weeks, catching up with my girl. She says it's boring in Bangkok at the moment. I'll take her a copy of 'Hangover 2' to explain why it's so quiet. LOL.

[QUOTE=Mouse1; 1533647]You can just imagine the conversation:

'Darling, where shall we go for our annual vacation this year? '

'Somewhere with sun, beaches, culture, food. How about Thailand? '

'Great idea, honey, the kids will love it, and we'll have a great time too in the Land of Smiles'.

'No, wait, I forgot, remember that movie Hangover? I reckon that was a pretty realistic description of one of the tourism capitals of the world. And damn, some of the ladies have got testicles! '

'Well that would ruin my holiday. Honey, there is no way we are going there! '

I have friends who are off to Thailand next week and aren't bothered by the ongoing troubles, let alone a crap frat-pack movie.[/QUOTE]Thanks to NGO's and their phony "trafficking" claims and stats, I normally only use the term "tourists" but in fact I was only referring to (potential) SEX tourists.

In the states at least I'd say for every guy actually going to Bangkok, there are 99 guys thinking about going and probably 98 will never go, and these are the same types who are going to see a movie like HANGOVER 2

[QUOTE=Mouse1;1533760]Yea! I'm with you, Eddie. I'm out to BKK in a couple of weeks, catching up with my girl. She says it's boring in Bangkok at the moment. I'll take her a copy of 'Hangover 2' to explain why it's so quiet. LOL.[/QUOTE]My OP (which was contained in ONE post) on the HANGOVER 2 issue in fact explicitly referred to a few years back and obviously is a minor issue relative to what is happening now.

As I've alluded to in probably a dozen posts. Bangkok tourism including sex tourism has been hit very hard by the political unrest, particularly as it concerns the convention business which I accurately referred to as having been "decimated" perhaps down 70% and not only are these often big spending types, but the decision to cancel some of these junkets it out of their hands, instead being made by corporate level risk managers. So its not likely to change anytime soon for that group.

Now individual mongers will adjust plans to some degree as they realize perhaps the risk (more bad news today of course) is worth taking, so might be a mitigating factor

[QUOTE=Western787; 1533768]Thanks to NGO's and their phony "trafficking" claims and stats, I normally only use the term "tourists" but in fact I was only referring to (potential) SEX tourists.

In the states at least I'd say for every guy actually going to Bangkok, there are 99 guys thinking about going and probably 98 will never go, and these are the same types who are going to see a movie like HANGOVER 2[/QUOTE]I really didn't want my 1000th post to be be a niggling criticism of another poster. You actually wrote:

[QUOTE=Western787;1533078]Another (and a plus for those that understand Bangkok) mega factor a few years back was that movie HANGOVER PART 2 which I believe has caused many westerners to avoid Bangkok.[/QUOTE]Nothing about tourists or sex tourists. Anyway, I'll agree with your last point. There may be some people wavering over their comfort zone, and perhaps some stories will put them off. Let's move on.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot; 1533096]Perhaps they were, but as you stated they were not that easy to meet, and I think 15 years ago there was far more of a stigma associated with dating a Western dude. The gal was automatically assumed to be a working girl. Now that is not the case.

Most of the younger guys I know here would never consider paying outright for sex. Strange.[/QUOTE]They still are, to some degree. Current GF, and others I've dated, have never darkened the door of a naughty bar. Yet, when seen with me, or some other farang, some folks automatically assume they're bar girls. I've asked about this and they always say something to the effect of they don't care what those people think. They don't know the truth.

So, maybe societal pressure isn't what it once was. Or maybe some women just learned to stand up to it.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1533768]Thanks to NGO's and their phony "trafficking" claims and stats, I normally only use the term "tourists" but in fact I was only referring to (potential) SEX tourists.

In the states at least I'd say for every guy actually going to Bangkok, there are 99 guys thinking about going and probably 98 will never go, and these are the same types who are going to see a movie like HANGOVER 2[/QUOTE]I don't know about the other, but Hangover 2 absolutely ruined State Tower and SkyBar. The drinks were never very good, and way overpriced, but it was a nice place to hang out and admire the city. Now, post-movie, the place tends to be a madhouse. A bazillion tourists crowded around the bar paying $20 for a shitty cocktail and ooh-ing and ahh-ing about being in the same spot as Paul Giamatti (note the matte paintings in many of the scenes. A lot of it wasn't even shot in the bar).

[QUOTE=Phordphan; 1534002]They still are, to some degree. Current GF, and others I've dated, have never darkened the door of a naughty bar. Yet, when seen with me, or some other farang, some folks automatically assume they're bar girls. I've asked about this and they always say something to the effect of they don't care what those people think. They don't know the truth.

So, maybe societal pressure isn't what it once was. Or maybe some women just learned to stand up to it.[/QUOTE]I really don't think it is as bad as it was a decade ago. One of the reasons is there are so many foreigners here now, not to mention all the young ones.

Methinks now days if a gal is not dressed like a hooker and if the age difference is not so great, the assumptions are not as quick.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1534012]Methinks now days if a gal is not dressed like a hooker and if the age difference is not so great, the assumptions are not as quick.[/QUOTE]I think that's very true. For a few years now it's been quite fashionable among the middle classes to have a farang bf / husband. But of course it has to be a 'respectable' one, and the Thais are very quick (and usually pretty accurate) to judge such things on the basis of grooming, clothes, age etc.

It certainly wasn't that way here back when I was in my 20s and 30s. Thailand was a more conservative place and farang men were not viewed all that favorably. But I guess I ought to be grateful, as otherwise I might not have had all these years of interesting adventures in this hobby of ours.

[QUOTE=Western787;1533376]To suggest one cannot tell the difference between ladyboys and real women is complete nonsense, yet people believe this.[/QUOTE]Not sure I agree with this after having a colleague from Scotland come to Singapore. We were out drinking at Club Romeos in OT and he started chatting up a ladyboy. He was totally shocked as he couldn't pick that he / she wasn't a real women. This was also after we told him. That the in the bar the blonde Russian dancers are girls and the 6' 2" Thai's are ladyboys! Even sadder was that we went back the following night and he made the same mistake!

[QUOTE=Mouse1;1533760]Yea! I'm with you, Eddie. I'm out to BKK in a couple of weeks, catching up with my girl. She says it's boring in Bangkok at the moment. I'll take her a copy of 'Hangover 2' to explain why it's so quiet. LOL.[/QUOTE]Better yet send her this link, I don't think that guy found it boring in the least! [url]http://vidmax.com/video/67887--GRAPHIC-Thai-protester-is-shot-in-the-head-by-police[/url]

These are not blanks they're firing guys, stay clear of the protests.

That having been said, looking fwd to my trip in early March!

[QUOTE=Breadman;1532925]I've yet to make my trip to Bangkok but I've got alot of experience in the fkk's of Germany and I'll say one thing about "stunners". Alone, they command everybody's attention. In a group of likewise stunning women their view of themselves starts competing against the others. And many guys just like to look, turning down stunners left and right. And when a girl is turned down in favor of another, doubts start to creep in. I imagine go-go bars are much like the fkk clubs. My preference is much different from the next guy, the girls I'm attracted to are usually a notch below stunner level but have the attributes I prefer. I rarely go for the girls who think too highly of themselves since service usually goes down as the looks go up. There's something to be said about grabbing an attractive girl after she's been turned down by ten guys.[/QUOTE]Looks and service do not go hand in hand. I've known guys that won't pick the hottest chick for your exact reasoning. It's a false assumption. There are stunners with great service and stunners with lousy service. Just as there are average chicks with great service and some with lousy. Case in point. I was at a FKK once. I motto is to always pick the stunner all things being equal (pricewise). I did a stunner, great service. Later that night, I was watching this slightly above average girl (not stunner level) go with one guy after another. I had to have her. When she is alone, I go up to talk to her. She ignores me. The stunner chick walks over and says "hey, he's talking to you." The above average chick continues to ignore me. I tell the stunner,"fuck her, let's go." Like the saying goes. You won't know until you try!

[QUOTE=Dornyone; 1534592]Better yet send her this link, I don't think that guy found it boring in the least!

[url]http://vidmax.com/video/67887--GRAPHIC-Thai-protester-is-shot-in-the-head-by-police[/url]

These are not blanks they're firing guys, stay clear of the protests.

That having been said, looking fwd to my trip in early March![/QUOTE]Point taken. I plan to stay well away from men with guns and pointy sticks.

Guys,

This will be my virgin trip to Thailand. I have a buddy who's been to Thailand before and loves it. He suggests that I skip Bangkok due to the political unrest and head straight for Pattaya. Being my virgin trip, I would like to spend at least a couple of days here. What do you guys think? Are the monger areas safe? What should I avoid?

[QUOTE=Hioctane; 1534897]Guys,

This will be my virgin trip to Thailand. I have a buddy who's been to Thailand before and loves it. He suggests that I skip Bangkok due to the political unrest and head straight for Pattaya. Being my virgin trip, I would like to spend at least a couple of days here. What do you guys think? Are the monger areas safe? What should I avoid?[/QUOTE]I live here a the it is business as usual everywhere. In fact because it is a little slow there are some great pickings and deals to be had.

Guys business is as usual here in Bangkok. I have had some great times recently at Nana plaza. 3000 LT is what I have been paying. Usually the girl does not leave until after lunch the next day. I stay away from the rainbows and Barracas since the girls seem to only want ST for 2500. If you go to some of the smaller go go's in Nana and Soi cowboy you will find some gems for sure. Climax is still going strong with some great music and a good selection of FL's to chose from after midnight. Insomnia near Soi 12 has been renamed but I forget what the new name is very slow and boring now. Mixx club is also still going strong with about an average of 800 people or more each night with plenty of girls working. So don't listen to anyone who tells you to stay away because of the protests. It is the best time to be in BKK for a monger.

[QUOTE=Hioctane; 1534897]Guys,

This will be my virgin trip to Thailand. I have a buddy who's been to Thailand before and loves it. He suggests that I skip Bangkok due to the political unrest and head straight for Pattaya. Being my virgin trip, I would like to spend at least a couple of days here. What do you guys think? Are the monger areas safe? What should I avoid?[/QUOTE]Does your friend have a pair of cojones? Man, I think some travelers are bigger pussies than the ones they come to Thailand to chase.

I was in BKK over Songkran. 2009 (?) , when the whole red shirt thing blew up. The ongoing protests are nothing like those, and even then only a small fraction of the town was affected. Just avoid the protests, go about your business and don't get involved. You'll be fine.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot; 1534012]I really don't think it is as bad as it was a decade ago. One of the reasons is there are so many foreigners here now, not to mention all the young ones.

Methinks now days if a gal is not dressed like a hooker and if the age difference is not so great, the assumptions are not as quick.[/QUOTE]Yes, I think so. Current GF takes great pains to never dress in anything remotely resembling a bar girl. She likes to wear jeans, but will rarely do so because the standard BG uniform is jeans and some sort of tight blouse or top.

[QUOTE=Hioctane; 1534897]Guys,

This will be my virgin trip to Thailand. I have a buddy who's been to Thailand before and loves it. He suggests that I skip Bangkok due to the political unrest and head straight for Pattaya. Being my virgin trip, I would like to spend at least a couple of days here. What do you guys think? Are the monger areas safe? What should I avoid?[/QUOTE]I just returned from Bangkok. I was there from early January until the end of last week. The protests are just irritating and make it more difficult to get around but it still can be done. Soi 4 and Nana are not affected at all. I stayed near Soi 4 and was fine. I would not let this political mess stop you from going to Bangkok.

Do though, stay away from the protesting crowds as there has been violence and you won't want to be caught up in it. And don't wear a red or yellow shirt.

Please advise if Taxis are easily available to commute from airport to city and vice a versa.

I am planning short trip on the next week end to Bangkok, and am asking, is the business as usual or protestors are disrupting the visits.

Ciao!

[QUOTE=Wandere; 1535129]Please advise if Taxis are easily available to commute from airport to city and vice a versa.

I am planning short trip on the next week end to Bangkok, and am asking, is the business as usual or protestors are disrupting the visits.

Ciao![/QUOTE]Same as usual, but it depends where you are staying.

[QUOTE=Hobbyist2; 1498110]You can buy ED drugs at a lot of Pharmacies. One I used is on Sukhumvit near Soi 4. If you are on Soi 4 and walking towards Sukhumvit turn right and it will be within a few steps on the right. You have to be looking for it as it may not be so obvious.

I do not believe there are any problems with bringing ED drugs to Thailand. Taking them home without a prescription could get you in deep sh*t.

Good luck[/QUOTE]Well, IF you are "older" you might be taking some quantity of pills anyway. While I've NEVER been shook down entering the US, I keep my "ordinary" pills in plastic pill boxes (that I get free from Safeway or other grocers). One "different pill per compartment" wouldn't even draw attention (I take an extra week's supply anyway for emergencies) While Rush Limpdick got shit for hauling Vitamin V (no idea of what quantity set them off, though) , the "average guy" just gets ignored. The Indian version isn't even BLUE (some of them, anyway)

By the way. NOT THIS FORUM. But do NOT buy ED drugs in CAMBODIA. 100% lately are highly skilled CHINESE COPIES. Might as well have been CORN STARCH

[QUOTE=Wandere; 1535129]Please advise if Taxis are easily available to commute from airport to city and vice a versa.

I am planning short trip on the next week end to Bangkok, and am asking, is the business as usual or protestors are disrupting the visits.

Ciao![/QUOTE]\

Unless its 3 AM or something, IMHO the Skytrain is always the best option.

But as someone said, the amount of disruption one will face largely depends upon where you stay

As the saying goes "Thais always protect the *****houses". So things for example around (Soi 4) Nana Plaza area have been running smoothly

So as the protests continue, that makes Soi 11 hotels a good choice.

Or one you can always stay on Soi 4 itself, as other than an occasional parade marching by on Sukuhumvit, you wouldn't know there is a problem, so Nana Hotel despite its "Lobby of Shame" is a good selection, and some girls actually think its a somewhat posh hotel.

Soi 7/1 is a good area to stay cheap with no problems related to the protest, but of course if the day of the working girl crackdown ever arrives, all persons in or around Soi 7/1 would be the first to be rounded up and sent to jail.

Note despite the huge mess of the encampments at Soi 21, adjacent Soi Cowboy still manages to function even thought the west entrance is effectively not functioning.

Also it should be pointed out that at the giant Soapies in Rachatcha, other than the lack of customers, one would never know there are protests.

[QUOTE=Western787;1535358]Or one you can always stay on Soi 4 itself, as other than an occasional parade marching by on Sukuhumvit, you wouldn't know there is a problem, so Nana Hotel despite its "Lobby of Shame" is a good selection, and some girls actually think its a somewhat posh hotel.[/QUOTE]Oh my Buddha, Nana Hotel is a posh hotel? It is a dump. I stayed there exactly one night and would never dare to bring a girl to such a place.

[QUOTE=Mooris7;1534922]Guys business is as usual here in Bangkok. I have had some great times recently at Nana plaza. 3000 LT is what I have been paying. Usually the girl does not leave until after lunch the next day. I stay away from the rainbows and Barracas since the girls seem to only want ST for 2500. If you go to some of the smaller go go's in Nana and Soi cowboy you will find some gems for sure. Climax is still going strong with some great music and a good selection of FL's to chose from after midnight. Insomnia near Soi 12 has been renamed but I forget what the new name is very slow and boring now. Mixx club is also still going strong with about an average of 800 people or more each night with plenty of girls working. So don't listen to anyone who tells you to stay away because of the protests. It is the best time to be in BKK for a monger.[/QUOTE]I agree. Bangkok is a buyer's market and girls in beer bars and gogos are eager to get customers. Climax is very irregular and seems to quickly turn into sausage party (translate: more guys than girls) , so I wouldn't really recommend it (unless you are into girls in their 30s). The FL market in the street is also not bad. A few gems for 1000 ST around nana parking lot or in sukh. But make sure you are able to distinguish between ladyboys and real girls. I also talked with some black FLs in sukh (did not pick up, I don't go to Asia to fuck African girls) , and have been surprised by the fact that some of them are quite educated and nice to talk with.

Haven't been to Nana plaza and Soi cowboy as yet. How does these bars work. All the girls are available to out-call. I'm not intrested in spending nights there just wanted to pickup couple of girls and go back. Can you please give me any tips.

Also I've asked this question before as well. Are there any up market clubs or pubs that I can pick up girls in Bangkok.

Like Brix, Singapore and BATS, Jakarta.

Thanks in advance

[QUOTE=Wolvenvacht;1535390]Oh my Buddha, Nana Hotel is a posh hotel? It is a dump. I stayed there exactly one night and would never dare to bring a girl to such a place.[/QUOTE]Unless you are dealing with Hi So party girls, whether you take them to Nana Hotel or The Shangra La, its generally not going to matter much one way or the other. Some Thai working girls actually do see Nana Hotel as kind of posh.

I'm an occasional traveler to Bangkok, thought I'd post my recent experiences at Dr. BJs and Eden (I'm hitting up the massage parlors on my next time through in a few weeks).

Been to Dr. BJs several times before, always good service for the price. Got a "nurse" for 700. I've never seen a difference in looks or skill from the 1000 ones or 700 ones, if anyone knows I'm all ears. I'm guessing the lower prices ones are just willing to take a smaller cut in the hopes to get more business. EE looked good, but I went with another girl of some number I can't remember because they take it right off maybe 2 or 8. I'll prob go back and sample EE another time. There was a lot of girls working, at least 15, at least half good enough quality. All small to medium boobs.

Went to the room / cubby, got cleaned up by her. She takes the top off but not the bottom. Gives ok BBBJCIM with swallow. Keeps going on it afterwards, we talk for a minute or so, she asks if she can go again, I say ok. Long good BJ this time, lots of hand and DT, ball licking, playing with her boobies. After a while, second pop, swallow again. She was very happy and enthusiastic the whole time. Clean up, pay the 700 and get out. Would repeat, like I said, EE looked pretty good and I'll probably try her next time.

[QUOTE=Western787;1535497]Unless you are dealing with Hi So party girls, whether you take them to Nana Hotel or The Shangra La, its generally not going to matter much one way or the other. Some Thai working girls actually do see Nana Hotel as kind of posh.[/QUOTE]But you might be more comfortable a bit down soi nana at the Royal Ivory or the Ibis. Both are guest friendly and quiet for quality sleep when you need it.

[QUOTE=Dkooau; 1535427]Haven't been to Nana plaza and Soi cowboy as yet. How does these bars work. All the girls are available to out-call. I'm not intrested in spending nights there just wanted to pickup couple of girls and go back. Can you please give me any tips.

Also I've asked this question before as well. Are there any up market clubs or pubs that I can pick up girls in Bangkok.

Like Brix, Singapore and BATS, Jakarta.

Thanks in advance[/QUOTE]In regard to Go Go's as it concerns Falangs, except for the Coyote bars (mostly in Soi Cowboy) and a few other places, the general rule is that yes, all the girls are available for takeout. However its not just "call out a number" so you will generally need some kind of positive feedback from the dancer on stage, such as positive eye contact AND ideally with her smiling ever so slightly - which some girls have turned into an art making a (slight) fake smile look real. While their standards are not very high, dancers can and do at times exercise discretion as to which customers they are willing to bar fine.

Now some guys just call them down from the stage for a ladydrink first and then figure it out. That's a slightly different issue. Personally I believe if you're going to do the ladydrink thing first, one should only request it when the girl is hanging between dancer sets, otherwise IMHO if you're calling them down from the stage JUST for the ladydrink and to scope them out, it seems a bit unfair to me if you don't subsequently actually barfine them.

As for upmarket (among other places) Spasso's at the Hyatt in Siam has FL's, but Spasso's and other "up market" places generally are all very late night early AM spots. The market is different from Singapore, as the venues for picking up are very expansive. Even in (no Go Go) regular bars which open at 10 AM one may ocassionally find fairly hot take out girls, although more frequently in the late afternoon or early evening period of time

Follow up to my last post. Been to Eden several times as well. I think its a pretty good deal for the price if you want two ladies. Service and looks have gone downhill in my opinion, but still worthwhile, I've found you never really know which lady will be into it that particular day and which won't, especially whether or not her usual partner is with her to make it easier for them. Recommending girls here is hard because of that, so I'm not too apt to do it. Though on a previous session,"Som"? Was particularly good. Anyways getting to the point.

No real lookers, mostly 30s with moderate bodies, no big boobs or anything unique. Choose one girl from the left side of the line, she choose another from the other side, they seemed to indicate that they were both somewhat new to Eden, or it was lost in translation. Neither are on the website. Both mid-30s. 7s. Prep and show took a fairly long time. 15-20 minutes or so before we started the real action.

Go through the normal motions, since I've been here a few times I think its best to simply tell the girls what you want instead of letting them script it out completely. Plenty of DFK, nipple sucking (on me as well) , they love doing the rimjobs for some reason. BBBJCIM, A+, whatever positions I want, whenever I wanted it, they do not stop pleasing you until you tell them to stop. The one with better english told me that the other one loves eating pussy, so the one with good english was getting a lot of oral from her during the session, was fun to see. PSE type places, though the girls were not one of the better sets I've had from Eden, as sometimes its wild.

The girl that did A+ told me she enjoys it over regular sex, and thats why she is on that side of the line, not to get more customers. I've heard the same thing from several of the other A+ girls there as well, and they generally show it during the session. I'd say you have a pretty good guarantee of a fine A+ session with any of the ladies at Eden. I've yet to have an Eden session where the girls were not into the lesbian thing and where the A+ girl was not insistent about multiple A+ sessions.

I'm sure I'll repeat Eden in the future, even though it tends to be pretty variable.

Pretty good real time video of Nana Plaza. Now I wish he'd skip the LB bars, but otherwise pretty good. He's apparently using a cell phone (with one of the spy cam apps) Originally I believed he had it in his shirt pocket but when he is leaving Mandarin (2nd floor club) you can see in the mirror and he has some kind of strap or something on. Note in BILL BOARD CLUB (with turnstyle stage and hot tub) on 3rd floor, girl actually asks him about the phone. Note the confusion when he encounters in Fantasia what appears to be a Coyote dancing on stage (facing the door) and the guy then asks whether the girls there are "real" or not. Then the girl at the door (thinking he's looking for LB's) directs him next door.

Hi guys,

I am coming to Thailand from March 7th to 9th.

I am thinking of staying in Soi 11 President Solitaire.

Please tell if it is away from the protest area.

Nana video referred to below: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OgLr7U0mUw[/url]

I want to thank all those forum members who talked me out of going to Patpong, seriously thank you.

I checked quite a few things, read a lot of reports on Patpong nightlife and some plenty of YouTube videos.

All I can say is that the reviews were bad enough with some fellow W. Europeans and Americans talking about the infamous sex show scams, pin pong scams with bills of 3,100 baht for what was supposed to be 300 baht.

What did it for me were the videos of people being hassled to go into these places, stalked for 10 minutes and quite simply. The place itself.

I mean King's Castle and the likes look like they're seriously falling apart and need a major uplift. It seems to me that the place has been abandoned and unchanged since the early 1980's am I wrong? Soi and Nana look so much better in pictures and videos and seem to be getting better as years go by (seen some past pictures of how Tilac, Baccara etc. Looked).

What is actually shocking for me is to read that a minority of people say their favourite bar is not in Nana and Soi, but Patpong!

Black Pagoda and Bada Bing are the ones mentioned that apparently don't have ladyboys. Seriously? Black Pagoda and Bada Bing? I checked the website for BP and the girls looked really, really spent (old and way past their prime). I don't see anything fresh in Patpong.

I read that it's the tourist scams that causes tourists to stay away from Patpong. I thought I should pay my respects to what is (and correct me if I'm wrong)"the oldest redlight district in Bangkok", but I've officially cancelled my plans to be in Silom for such a sorry spectacle. I actually wanted to vomit my lunch a few hours ago seeing what Patpong was like.

"the oldest redlight district in Bangkok" certainly looks old.

[QUOTE=Monster4057; 1535558]Hi guys,

I am coming to Thailand from March 7th to 9th.

I am thinking of staying in Soi 11 President Solitaire.

Please tell if it is away from the protest area.[/QUOTE]Its not near the protest area itself, but of course Soi 11 itself is operating at a reduced level of business and tourist activity than would otherwise be occurring in high season. If the protests continue into summer, it would seem some of the regular (in other words excluding night mobile bars and street food vendors) businesses could fail. It will all depend on what kind of financial cushion they have for bad times

[QUOTE=Western787; 1535695]Nana video referred to below:

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OgLr7U0mUw[/url][/QUOTE]The video is freaking beautiful for a newbie like me who'll be staying in Nana next month for the first time in BKK!

However, I did my homework like you and I'm a little scared he actually actively looked for ladyboys! I know already that Cascade, Temptations and Casanova are ladyboy bars.

Tell me Wes, are all the girls / mamasans as friendly as what we see on video all the time? I wish I could do what he did, but my smartphone is too big!

Beautiful video and helpful video. It brings a smile on my face that I chose the superiro redlight district to be in compared to Soi and Patpong.

Thanks for sharing Wes!

[QUOTE=TigerCountry; 1535720]The video is freaking beautiful for a newbie like me who'll be staying in Nana next month for the first time in BKK!

However, I did my homework like you and I'm a little scared he actually actively looked for ladyboys! I know already that Cascade, Temptations and Casanova are ladyboy bars.

Tell me Wes, are all the girls / mamasans as friendly as what we see on video all the time? I wish I could do what he did, but my smartphone is too big!

Beautiful video and helpful video. It brings a smile on my face that I chose the superiro redlight district to be in compared to Soi and Patpong.

Thanks for sharing Wes![/QUOTE]Mamasans in general, while they usually have a rough edge, are in fact quite friendly overall. When things are slow they resort to pointing (to a specific dancer on stage, then back to you, followed by a pelvic thrust) OR the "you're just a cheap bastard" hand gesture which is a sort of joke anyways but can quickly refuted by tipping them a 20 baht note. When things get even slower, certain ones have been known to start "humping" customers rigth at their seats. So beside from being pimps they are entertainers. Rainbow 1 often has a very short mamasan that moonwalks and if you give her a 20 baht note or better a 100 baht not she will go into high gear and better than Michael Jackson would do.

I think the videographer is playing up the befuddled angle a bit. Note the video is being run in real time. So he's trying to fit in as many clubs as possible and i guess show the range of clubs, but he had to have trial run this thing ahead of time, so he would know what bars to avoid, so one has to wonder what he is looking for, but in any case it would have been better to skip the LB bars and gotten in Rainbow 1. 2. And 3 and perhaps a better look in Rainbow 4.

Despite all the hype about LB's in Nana Plaza and Soi 4, and despite them being 100 times more aggressive than real girls, and also relentlessly prancing up and down the Soi each night after 10 pm, they rarely seem ever to get customers and this includes their daily (idiotic) late night assault on the Nana Plaza exit, where they harass guys exiting the Plaza. Same at Thermae Coffee on Sukumuvit between Soi 13 and Soi 15 which actually bans them from the club, yet they still harass customers exiting every night.

The regular clubs the video guy went to were as follows: Spankies, Angelwitch, Rainbow 4, Mandarin (2nd floor club), Mandarin (3rd floor Club), Fantasia, Vegas, and BILLboard.

Unrelated to the video technique per se, but just for general information, guys that scope out clubs in 10 seconds and walk out never really can get a good inventory of what's available,, unless they've been in the club many times before. It takes an hour or two at each club and one has to go different days and different hours and invest in a drink or two. This is also true for the 8 to 10 major pool bars on Soi 4 also. Also new girls are constantly being hired by clubs. There are well over a 1000 or 2000 girls working in Nana Plaza and on Soi 4 (not even counting street girls and massage parlors) and the 60 to 90 baht Pool bar min investment or 150 or so Go Go investment in the drink is well worth it, as it gives you the hang time to figure places out. In the pool bars as an example, the morning girls and/or afternoon girls can be quite different than lets say night girls in certain venues.. so going different times is very important for guys looking for hot girls..

If a guy is a gentleman and not a slob or a drunk, he's going to find Thai girls very friendly. Bar girls (by business necessity) can and will often push up the BS meter, but once you discount what they tell you, you will often see pretty decent and interesting girls

[QUOTE=Western787; 1535798]Mamasans in general, while they usually have a rough edge, are in fact quite friendly overall. When things are slow they resort to pointing (to a specific dancer on stage, then back to you, followed by a pelvic thrust) OR the "you're just a cheap bastard" hand gesture which is a sort of joke anyways but can quickly refuted by tipping them a 20 baht note. When things get even slower, certain ones have been known to start "humping" customers rigth at their seats. So beside from being pimps they are entertainers. Rainbow 1 often has a very short mamasan that moonwalks and if you give her a 20 baht note or better a 100 baht not she will go into high gear and better than Michael Jackson would do.

I think the videographer is playing up the befuddled angle a bit. Note the video is being run in real time. So he's trying to fit in as many clubs as possible and I guess show the range of clubs, but he had to have trial run this thing ahead of time, so he would know what bars to avoid, so one has to wonder what he is looking for, but in any case it would have been better to skip the LB bars and gotten in Rainbow 1. 2. And 3 and perhaps a better look in Rainbow 4...[/QUOTE]Thanks for the excellent info Wes!

Also, it's a good thing you mention that 10 secs is really not enough to judge a club.

On the other hand, I must say I'm quite disappointed about Angelwitch. I thought it was a mighty bar with hot coreography. These chicks at Angelwitch can barely dance and I probably did a much better job dancing in clubs a few years ago. I'm no pro, but I expected a bit more.

On the other hand, Spankys and Rainbow 4 in the video look exactly as I imagined them. .

Rainbow 4 girls look so, so hot!

Anyway, most of people will see what is closer to them. Although, I think Cowboy would be a more pleasant experience.

Everyone has different opinion on the hottest chicks with great attitudes, so I know MMMV.

However, which one is your personal favourite in Nana and Cowboy for girls and friendly mamasans?

Also, this is probably early in the night I assume? Am I right saying it's between 9-10?

P. S. If Mr. Polak who made the video knew what he was doing, there is no excuse for stopping at Cascade, Temptations and Casanova.

[QUOTE=TigerCountry; 1535836]Thanks for the excellent info Wes!

Also, it's a good thing you mention that 10 secs is really not enough to judge a club.

On the other hand, I must say I'm quite disappointed about Angelwitch. I thought it was a mighty bar with hot coreography. These chicks at Angelwitch can barely dance and I probably did a much better job dancing in clubs a few years ago. I'm no pro, but I expected a bit more.

On the other hand, Spankys and Rainbow 4 in the video look exactly as I imagined them. .

Rainbow 4 girls look so, so hot!

Anyway, most of people will see what is closer to them. Although, I think Cowboy would be a more pleasant experience.

Everyone has different opinion on the hottest chicks with great attitudes, so I know MMMV.

However, which one is your personal favourite in Nana and Cowboy for girls and friendly mamasans?

Also, this is probably early in the night I assume? Am I right saying it's between 9-10?

P. S. If Mr. Polak who made the video knew what he was doing, there is no excuse for stopping at Cascade, Temptations and Casanova.[/QUOTE]Between 9 to 10 pm is a good rough guess give or take a 1/2 hour or so, and also perhaps a Fri or Sat because its fairly busy overall. The biggest giveaway that is probably 9 to 10 pm or thereabouts is the general absence of LB's (only one very obvious) near Nana parking lot, and none are bunching near the Nana Plaza exit with few or none seen prancing around in front of adjoining clubs on the Nana Plaza side, which generally starts toward 10 to 11 pm. Also not too many regular FL's directly in front of the Nana Hotel sign, although that can vary at times also. As for Go Go favorites I try to not have any, (or not show it in a club) otherwise they can get all possessive when you visit. In regard to dancing, except for Coyotes (who often dance the energetic G club dance style) the standard "dance" in Go Go's is often simply one step forward and then one step back or some variation, very minimal movement. In fact in Baccarra normally they cannot even do that (its usually just a wiggle) as they are far more tightly spaced than for example Rainbow 4 where each girl usually has a pole to hold

[QUOTE=TigerCountry; 1535836] (snip)

Anyway, most of people will see what is closer to them. Although, I think Cowboy would be a more pleasant experience.

Everyone has different opinion on the hottest chicks with great attitudes, so I know MMMV.

However, which one is your personal favourite in Nana and Cowboy for girls and friendly mamasans?[/QUOTE]Nana is not my favorite place: too chaotic.

In Soi Cowboy, whichever club I visit, I always end up in Suzie Wong and find my friend for the night there. Why? I think they have a nice line-up (but that is a matter of taste) ; their shows are well done; the music is not too loud; the atmosphere is relaxed and not pushy.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1535695]Nana video referred to below:

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OgLr7U0mUw[/url][/QUOTE]Is there one similar to this for Soi Cowboy? Many videos on YouTube, but not something that shows you the bars one by one.

[QUOTE=Wolvenvacht; 1536021]Nana is not my favorite place: too chaotic.

In Soi Cowboy, whichever club I visit, I always end up in Suzie Wong and find my friend for the night there. Why? I think they have a nice line-up (but that is a matter of taste) ; their shows are well done; the music is not too loud; the atmosphere is relaxed and not pushy.[/QUOTE]As it currently stands for many visitors, access to Soi Cowboy requires either huge detour routes or walking through encampments.

So the issue could be somewhat moot for many visitors.

In regards to Nana being "too chaotic", the biggest single problem with Nana is the LB issue, but most learn to block it all out very quickly making it a non issue. The video guy of course for whatever reason seemed to revel in it. Note in BILLboard he had the extremely cute Hot Tub Girl (on break) going all ga ga and flirty about the fact that he was only 29 years old, yet he wasn't particularly responsive.

While Soi Cowboy has some excellent clubs including Baccarra and others, many of the clubs have touts outside posing as dancers who in fact not only do not dance, but I don't think ever go in the club. In fact I am not even sure they are 18 years of age.

Soi 4 in addition to the Plaza also has a large number of (non Go Go) Bars with a variety of girls and they are open 15 plus hours per day. I don't see that as much in the Soi Cowboy area, nor do I see comparable happy hour pricing.

And there is no Nana Parking lot equivalent near Soi Cowboy, nor is there anything like the Soi 7 Beergarden nearby

Also I don't see many bargain price hotels around Soi Cowboy.

I would guess for the typical "tourist" arriving in town for a week or two, he still has a choice on any given night (from all sources combined) of at least 10, 000 different FS girls, but the protests have definitely complicated one's ability to move to and from the various venues and locales. So sometimes more focused approaches need to be considered..

[QUOTE=TigerCountry; 1535708]I want to thank all those forum members who talked me out of going to Patpong, seriously thank you.

All I can say is that the reviews were bad enough with some fellow W. Europeans and Americans talking about the infamous sex show scams, pin pong scams with bills of 3, 100 baht for what was supposed to be 300 baht.[/QUOTE]Thing is, for those that [b]DON'T[/b] know, Patpong is the [b]only[/b] place they've heard of, and if you haven't visited, then you'll be told you've missed the "real" BKK (say those who've never been).

Best advice I got for visiting [i]upstairs[/i] Patpong was 20 years ago, before my first BKK visit, from a knowledgable Thai hand: Take a guide. When I protested that I didn't know any guides, he replied (with a friendly roll of the eyes), "It's simple. Go to Nana (no rip off places) , find a girl you like, bar fine her, and have HER take you. She'll look out for your wallet (as it leaves more [i]potential[/i] for her) , and she'll enjoy visiting the competition." I did, and she did, at one point dragging me left when the tout leading turned right, saying that it was suspicious he was leading us someplace else rather than directly upstairs. She made sure all the bills were legit in several upstairs bars, and I [u]still[/u] remember her comment after seeing a "coke" show (empty and refill a coke bottle), "I'm never drinking coke again."

Perhaps no longer as easy with hourly rather than nightly rates, but still possible, and a fun and safe way to visit Patpong's [i]upstairs[/i], though I can't say if, these days, it's worth it.

[QUOTE=11Bravo; 1536066]Thing is, for those that [b]DON'T[/b] Know, Patpong is the [b]only[/b] Place they've heard of, and if you haven't visited, then you'll be told you've missed the "real" BKK (say those who've never been).

Best advice I got for visiting [i]upstairs[/i] Patpong was 20 years ago, before my first BKK visit, from a knowledgable Thai hand: Take a guide. When I protested that I didn't know any guides, he replied (with a friendly roll of the eyes),"It's simple. Go to Nana (no rip off places) , find a girl you like, bar fine her, and have HER take you. She'll look out for your wallet (as it leaves more [i]potential[/i] For her) , and she'll enjoy visiting the competition." I did, and she did, at one point dragging me left when the tout leading turned right, saying that it was suspicious he was leading us someplace else rather than directly upstairs. She made sure all the bills were legit in several upstairs bars, and I [u]still[/u] Remember her comment after seeing a "coke" show (empty and refill a coke bottle),"I'm never drinking coke again."

Perhaps no longer as easy with hourly rather than nightly rates, but still possible, and a fun and safe way to visit Patpong's [i]upstairs[/i], though I can't say if, these days, it's worth it.[/QUOTE]Thank you for sharing the experience. However, I'm a little confused. Do you actually recommend Patpong for newbies (and in general) for the girls or not?

[QUOTE=Western787; 1536060]As it currently stands for many visitors, access to Soi Cowboy requires either huge detour routes or walking through encampments.

So the issue could be somewhat moot for many visitors.

In regards to Nana being "too chaotic", the biggest single problem with Nana is the LB issue, but most learn to block it all out very quickly making it a non issue. The video guy of course for whatever reason seemed to revel in it. Note in BILLboard he had the extremely cute Hot Tub Girl (on break) going all ga ga and flirty about the fact that he was only 29 years old, yet he wasn't particularly responsive.

While Soi Cowboy has some excellent clubs including Baccarra and others, many of the clubs have touts outside posing as dancers who in fact not...[/QUOTE]Wes, with regards to these touts who are not even going to be inside. I saw many videos, this one in particular:

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgjnt6hOyjE[/url]

Shows many of them trying to drag the person in, but if all chicks were this hot then I would assume all the bars in Cowboy would be full every single day.

I also decided to keep away from the bars owned from the Persian fellow. Midnite, Sahara, Kiss, Rawhide, Rio, Deja-Vu and Spice Girls have a bad reputation.

[url]http://www.wowasis.com/travelblog/?p=3770[/url]

Seems like they use touts like a spider web. Once the butterflies (tourists / foreigners) are caught (inside the club) , the spider (mamasan & bouncers) have a pretty easy time.

Seriously though, these things shouldn't be happening in Sukhumvit, so close to Terminal 21.

[QUOTE=11Bravo; 1536066]Thing is, for those that [b]DON'T[/b] Know, Patpong is the [b]only[/b] Place they've heard of, and if you haven't visited, then you'll be told you've missed the "real" BKK (say those who've never been).

Perhaps no longer as easy with hourly rather than nightly rates, but still possible, and a fun and safe way to visit Patpong's [i]upstairs[/i], though I can't say if, these days, it's worth it.[/QUOTE]All the downstairs bars are ok as far as I know, it's just upstairs where its a bit iffy, but if you stick to the King's group, kings castle queens castle. You should be allright and actually it is pretty cheap albeit a bit raunchy.

Also no problem with star of light and kangaroo as you can read here in the forum.

[quote=western787;1536060].in regards to nana being "too chaotic", the biggest single problem with nana is the lb issue, but most learn to block it all out very quickly making it a non issue. the video guy of course for whatever reason seemed to revel in it. note in billboard he had the extremely cute hot tub girl (on break) going all ga ga and flirty about the fact that he was only 29 years old, yet he wasn't particularly responsive.[/quote]can anyone explain why lbs are a huge issue. in all my visits to bkk (over40+) i have never been harassed by them. sure, once in a while they say hi and how and give "come hither" looks, but that cannot be classified as harassment. if so, that is a sign of extreme homophobia and paranoia. all one has to do is to give a smile and say no.

and tigercountry, it seems you have never visited bkk before. if so, just go and have a good time and stop looking over your shoulder. lbs are not going to tackle and [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] you. and if you have doubts, just ask them.

Maybe they have a hard time withstanding the temptation.

[quote=duniawala; 1536163]can anyone explain why lbs are a huge issue. in all my visits to bkk (over40+) i have never been harassed by them. sure, once in a while they say hi and how and give "come hither" looks, but that cannot be classified as harassment. if so, that is a sign of extreme homophobia and paranoia. all one has to do is to give a smile and say no.

and tigercountry, it seems you have never visited bkk before. if so, just go and have a good time and stop looking over your shoulder. lbs are not going to tackle and [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] you. and if you have doubts, just ask them.[/quote]we all have difference tolerance levels. i come from a very conservative country that would never allow them to be so free. i'm just not used to have transsexuals around like you. everyone is culturally different.

[QUOTE=TigerCountry;1536112]Thank you for sharing the experience. However, I'm a little confused. Do you actually recommend Patpong for newbies (and in general) for the girls or not?[/QUOTE]As stated by Islandboy54, the downstairs bars are safe. It's the upstairs ones that can be of concern. For a downstairs visit, no "guide" needed. If you want to see Patpong shows (and those that have never been have CERTAINLY heard of them, will ask you if you've seen, and, if not, then say you missed out, even if they've never been) , then an upstairs visit would be required, with a "guide" recommended, so you don't have to be concerned about a "name" group or not. More along the lines of a "been there, done that" thing. I did it once, 20 years ago, and though I have been back to Patpong, haven't seen a show since. I've seen some nice looking ladies in Patpong, but it was never a favorite haunt, more of a place to take friends visiting as they'd all heard of it. Earlier, I preferred Nana; later on, Cowboy. It's just something some MIGHT want to see just to check off that item on the to-do list.

The exception is the Star of Light. That IS worth a trip in and of itself.

[QUOTE=TigerCountry; 1536116]if all chicks were this hot then I would assume all the bars in Cowboy would be full every single day.[/QUOTE]Exactly, and its a deliberate deception done by certain owners of Soi Cowboy bars, and its exactly why they are used. Any video of Soi Cowboy will thus appear to show what (from a distance at least) look like G club quality 18 to 23 years of age girls, the inference being (as is typical in normal clubs) they are between dance sets and thus are ready to go back to the club presumptively available to be barfined, when in fact they are (barely legal if even that) young teens acting purely as touts. This can be easily confirmed once you visit Soi Cowboy.

The issue is certainly relevant to a discussion of the merits of Soi Cowboy vs Nana. For example when you see various hotties hanging outside of Rainbow 4 in Nana Plaza, THOSE girls are available and most in fact anxious to be barfined, and unless a guy's a drunk or a slob, 99% of the time he will be able to take them ST to his hotel if its nearby or a short term room if not.

As I said in regard to many Soi Cowboy girls hanging outside, many of these girls are not even "Coyotes" which by definition are girls that DANCE but don't normally (with some exceptions) barfine. In fairness to certain owners. some of the clubs in their sign do say "Coyote" club, so that's at least minimal fair notice

Now that said, there are plenty of hot girls in Soi Cowboy and Nana and all over, but its best to have a strategy to find the hot ones you like.

Some posters in various forums complain one needs a "game" now in Thailand and complain about alleged "ageism" and other issues. I guess they want it like the Phils or parts of DR where girls in destitute poverty living in a 3rd world hellhole just fall all over them. Yes, its a bit different in Bangkok which is now a world class city with many things to do other than to screw all day, but the tradeoff of being in such a great locale and city is yes hot women have more discretion and choices now and with P4P hotties the money they are earning often IS just shopping or fun money, but that said: the bottom line is P4P hotties are still everywhere and they are available for those that want them..

[QUOTE=Western787; 1536270]Exactly, and its a deliberate deception done by certain owners of Soi Cowboy bars, and its exactly why they are used. Any video of Soi Cowboy will thus appear to show what (from a distance at least) look like G club quality 18 to 23 years of age girls, the inference being (as is typical in normal clubs) they are between dance sets and thus are ready to go back to the club presumptively available to be barfined, when in fact they are (barely legal if even that) young teens acting purely as touts. This can be easily confirmed once you visit Soi Cowboy.

The issue is certainly relevant to a discussion of the merits of Soi Cowboy vs Nana. For example when you see various hotties hanging outside of Rainbow 4 in Nana Plaza, THOSE girls are available and most in fact anxious to be barfined, and unless a guy's a drunk or a slob. 99% of the time he will be able to take them ST to his hotel if its nearby or a short term room if not...[/QUOTE]Definitely "game" since some real hotties on R4 (right ones) and Baccara (upper floor ones) will only go with Japs as I've read. I'm sure age comes to play too if you're not Jap. Also, I have south Asian origins which is another blow, but worse if I was black (kinda funny since Soi Cowboy's first bar was owned by a black American) , but hey most of these working girls have never graduated from college, why would they care about the history of the place they work in?

At the same time, I've read that Japs get charged more in Go Go's since they can afford it. The famous davetheravebangkok 4 rule or 2-3-4 rule or 3 rule. 4-inch dick. 4-minute sex. 4,000baht.

I don't necessarily see the attention they get as being super positive either. Although, they do get their way on high-end soapies with no foreigner surcharge or even in tourist places like the grand palace and siam ocean world.

On the other hand, I must also accept and be happy that some of these places that cater exclusively to Japs, really are meant for them and not me. I mean, their idea of fun in a karaoke is totally different to my concept of 'fun'. Also, these Jap-only hotties may be eye candy, but they probably wouldn't be able to handle more than 4-minutes and bigger than 4-inches. I can't stand hot women who can't "give it all to me" (quoting "I was made for loving you" by Kiss).

Believe me, I've tried to enjoy sex with a hot (9 or 10) europeans who couldn't please me and hated it all the way. Thus, it's really not that much of a loss to foreigners.

The bottom line is (and I have learned this from countless mistakes and bitter tears shed in other areas of my life, not just mongering)

Do your homework and you'll be rewarded. If you plan ahead of time and get informed on scams, discrimination and all the subtle and not-so subtle things you will be prepared (most of the time) and know what to expect. There's no excuse for people being upset afterwards and saying they weren't warned of such things beforehand. The info is all there. All you have to do is read (perhaps preceded by some digging / researching).

Once you know the places or things to avoid, you'll also know which ones are right to the individual or 'you' and many more solutions will inevitably become open.

For instance, I'll go to go go bars to enjoy seeing hot women dancing and some shows I want to see (Angelwitch and Spankys). However, I know my chances of barfining a super hot Baccara / Rainbow 4 girl are 1/1000 or less. Fine by me, I already know places where I can find better looking women in MP's who will fuck me for the green, regardless. Adjusting is the key and as I once told Paul via PM, I firmly believe it should always be a fair business transaction. However, Thai girls today earn too much money today not to discriminate based on age and race. No problem, there is still much supply elsewhere where they will take you. .

P4P is going to keep growing. I highly doubt it'll decrease. One thing that does make me a little mad in Asia is the excessive tipping. It causes too much inflation and girls expectation increases. I'll make sure I keep things very controlled.

I also forgot to post this. It's an important quote from The Buddha. Thailand is a Theravada Buddhist country:

"In the end, only three things matter: how much you loved, how gently you lived, and how gracefully you let go of things not meant for you".

I think the final sentence suits the mongering scene perfectly: "let go of things not meant for you" aka Jap traps and places / people that would discriminate against you since there are so many other choices around for P4P in BKK and elsewhere with even more attractive hotties.

okay fellas, here's my report about my trip to bangkok. i'm usually at the prague section of this forum, i do stop by here to check things out once in a while, get some info and all that, and this being a forum i'm going to be blunt and i'm not going to hold back, i think some of you bigger fans of bangkok will want to destroy me after this, but i'll be fair in my review. i mean no place is perfect, and while bangkok was ok, i found its reputation as the mongering capital of the world to be somewhat exaggerated. i will post the financial info in dollars, somehow that makes it seem more cost effective. because when i think of how much it costs to monger here or in europe, whatever i experienced in bangkok, some good, and some bad, when it comes to the bad, considering how cheap it all was, it was okay then.

i got to say though, i did all i could to get a booking with goldie's, so much has been said about how great they are, but they just wouldn't fit me in their schedule. also, while i did manage to speak to the dude on the phone, i suspect that something i said may have put me on their shit list. i don't know why i assumed paul kaush was the owners husband, i remember reading somewhere here the name of goldie's husband and i just assumed it was him because paul kausch speaks a lot about goldies. the dude on the other line said something about the international sex guide, and mere hours later i get an email from them telling me they won't be able to accommodate me. sadly, i had already given them my real name, so that means i will never be able to use their services (since i'm on their shit-list) should i ever be in bangkok. which to be perfectly honest, i don't know if i'll ever go back to bangkok. while it was overall a good experience, because it's been so over-hyped, it just feels like it could have been better. other mongering destinations, you don't expect much to begin with, so it ends up being better. just sayin.

also, while it's all protesty violence and all now, i think it's apropos i post now because while i didn't know it, i was lucky to have showed up in bangkok right around the beginning of the protests (couple of months ago) , when all they did was just walk around all day in giant groups of people, before all the death and violent stuff. anyway, that being said, bangkok has made me more confused than ever before. while i had some of the worst mongering experiences in my life her, the average experiences i had were made ok by the fact that it's just cheaper in bangkok. everything is just cheaper. you'll read that one of my experiences was a total disaster, but at around $200 bucks, i can swing that. with something like 15 chicks over 8 days, the math works out. in other mongering destinations, especially europe, one mistake would be like $500 bucks easy. it's a tough call. do i want to come back here? i don't know fellas. some day maybe. some day. but back to prague again as soon as i have cash.

another thing, the way the thailand section has been split up, i wasn't sure if i should post my experiences separately, the soapies, the escorts, nana plaza, etc. to make things easier i decided to just put everything in this 'bangkok' section since that's where i was. so, on to day 1!

day 1.

arrived in bangkok, had some taxi problems, and soon to learn that taxis here are a little pain in the ass. when it comes to south east asia, i've only ever been to singapore, and my arrival here already made me miss the cleanliness and order of singapore, but you know what, i'm here for the chicks, so let's go. check in to the hotel, and first thing i do is call emmy, also known as jennyx, and boy did i regret it. she is who she is in the photos, but somehow just not as attractive. much like the taxis, i was to learn that this is quite a trend here. somehow the photos makes them look really good, but in real life, it's kinda not. don't get me wrong, as a seasoned monger myself, i know the game, and how it works with the photoshopping, but here in thailand it seems the photoshop is more extreme. either that, or thai chicks just aren't as attractive in general as their european counterparts. (i was soon to be made wrong on this part, because i saw some real hotties at nana plaza. the place she took me to was called rainbow 4 and i was to learn that this is the premier joint over there. but a very negative report to come soon. turns out super hot here means real crazy) anyways, she was reasonably friendly enough, but somewhat cold and distant. she showed me where nana plaza was, and that terminal 21 place, the sex itself was uneventful, she looked bored. while i made an initial booking of around 5 hours, i had her leave after around 4. since this way day 1 and i had arrived in the evening, and man was i jetlagged, i called it a day.

emmy (also known as jenny x). [url]http://thaillandcompanion.com/[/url]

looks. 4.

attitude / delivery. 3.

cost. 230 dollars for 5 hours. worth it?. no.

recommended. please. no.

day 2.

with a spring in my step, i decided to go for the famous soapies, and where else but to emmanuelles. took the subway, and while there was only 5 or 6 girls on offer, they were nice looking. i took a chick who was smiling at me the whole time, now the mamasan was pushy but i just ignored her. took my time. anyway, the smiley chick was nice, but once in the room, she was still nice, but slighty more business like, i suppose this is how it works here. her tits were tiny, but she was pretty. she did this bathtub cleaning me thing, lasted for some time, if i remember i took her for 90 minutes? was it 2 hours? she was okay at the sex, rode me cowgirl, gave me a decent bbbj, at my age, and not taking my vitamins for this trip (i need to experiment on this one, i just wanted to know that i can still make things happen without pharmaceutical aid) , fucked her doggy and mish, but in the end still couldn't do it. she didn't rush me or anything, but she finished me by hand anyway. can't remember here tag number, so based on her performance, i'm reviewing the whole establishment then.

i dropped by nataree, not much going on in the day time. the papasan tried to convince me but the line up in the fish bowl looked ordinary at best. then took the train to ez massage. had yuri, now she must've been one of the few that actually looked better than her photos. nice big fake titties. she gave me a short bbbj, we did mish for a while. she was really cute though, this tiny little thing with big titties and braces. i like. the setup is like a lower end soapy i suppose. there's a shower but i had to shower myself, i'll soon learn that it depends on each girl if she wants to shower with you or not. the sex was okay i suppose. i remember a massage as well, but with so many massages over the course of the coming week, it all just faded into one big mess of massages.

now here's the part where i continue on about rainbow 4. because i was mesmerized with the bevy of beauties i saw the night emmy took me there, i knew i had to go back, and after a day's worth of soapies, i decided to spend the night at nana. rainbow 4 was packed, and i slowly learned the rules and system here. it's all pretty straightforward, barfine, you negotiate with the chick, etc. anyway this place was packed full of babes, now before i went in, i did have a peek in some of the other establishments nearby, and i could already tell that there was a substantial difference in quality of babes. the rainbow bars, all 4 of them are the ones with the most hotties. that being said, i suspect the chicks cost the most. over the night, some of the waitresses will try to get you to choose one, but just stand your ground, drink your beer, and ogle for as long as you want. on an iffy note, i did spot a chick that looked somewhat young. i'm not kidding fellas, i know there is the asian type young, and then there's just young that it's kinda worrying. she looked kinda out of place there. anyways, i spot another chick that looks like an asian version of lupe fuentes. i swear to god fellas, it coulda been her twin. i call her over and then she tells me she doesn't do long time, she only does short time and it's going to be 133 dollars (again, it's all in baht, i just did the conversion). i was like what? even a newbie like me over there knew something was up, so i tells her bye. i was soon to learn that indeed something was up, first up, most of the chicks will do long time, and then what she was asking for short time was on the pricey side, even for 11pm. turns out the later it gets, the cheaper it's supposed to be. she was hot, but not 133 dollars for a quickie hour hot. for that money, i'd rather bang me a czech girl, and trust me fellas the average in prague is around $100 dollars an hour. how am i supposed to live with myself if i paid more than that for a thai chick? look, some thai chicks are hot, but never czech hot. there was another super hot looking one dancing on stage, looked like the asian version of abella anderson, but i kept it cool, and then came my mistake for the night. this i will call big mistake number 1. anyways, 'bee' was her name and i forget her tag number. so she saunters over, cute smile and she's tiny. a very japanese type look to her, turns out a lot of the thai babes that can get away with looking japanese, will most certainly do. turns out them japanese guys in bangkok spend tons of cash on them. anyways, it's only my second night here, so i want to be young again, i tells her i'll barfine her, she says 5 to 6 hours (this is apparently 'long time'). it's midnight, so we go to a club with a live band. we dance, and stuff, and at my age with a young chick in tow, i do feel old, and instead of feeling young again, i just feel weird and out of place, the live band kinda sucked too. here's the kicker though. she has waaaaay too much to drink and is bat-shit insane drunk. we're talking slurred speech, can't walk straight drunk. there's 2 kinds of drunk people fellas. the ones that get sullen and quiet, and the ones that get angry and aggressive. guess which kind she was? holy shit, she cursed in thai all over the place, badgering strangers on the road. making me buy stuff for her. i was this close to just walking away, but i'm too much of a gentleman to do that, so i keep her company all the way back to my hotel where she promptly falls asleep. when i first met her she was one of the cutest things i've ever seen, now she was ugly as hell. i couldn't sleep at all, and at 8am i woke her up, and kicked her out. i remember seeing her dance on stage the other night, and i remember thinking to myself there's a glint of crazy in her eyes. shoulda listened to my gut instinct. i was to make this mistake for the second time, and this time it's the hint of crazy in a photo that i ignored. geez.

emmanuelles. [url]http://www.emmanuelle-entertainment.com/[/url]

looks. the chicks i saw lined up were all between 7's and 9's.

attitude / delivery. eh, i felt like it was a 6 at best, but i'll give her 6. 5 for the bbbj.

cost. 106 dollars for 2 hours. worth it. yes, worth it to give this place a try.

recommended. only if you have time to drop by.

yuri at ez massage. [url]http://ezmassagebkk.com/?model=yuri[/url]

looks. i'm a sucker for the tiny chicks, so a 7. 5.

attitude / delivery. 7.

cost. around 80 bucks (it's a no brainer man. 90 min for 80 bucks to bang a hot chick? hell yeah)

recommended. only if you have time to drop by.

bee at rainbow 4.

looks. started at 8, ended at 3.

attitude / delivery. 0.

cost. around 200 bucks for 5 hours. (this is with all the wine, food and stuff she made me buy. and this is at 2am fellas)

recommended. for the love of god, no! hell no! i felt sheepish and stupid too after the dancing at the club, really this stuff is for the young people fellas.

day 3.

with day 1 and 2 being as it was, while not an unmitigated disaster, i needed a sure thing. so with all the reports i've been reading on this place, i gave them a call. fiona came over and she was lovely. a sight to behold. she is just about the only other girl who matches her photo here. super nice looking. it was a bit embarrassing though, because with all the bookings i had made, and with the jetlag and change in timezones, i had completely forgotten my appointment with her. and with the events of the previous day with the crazy drunk rainbow 4 chick, the hotel woke me up with the news that a hot babe was coming up. anyways, fiona was very sweet, i had booked her for a solid day, so we went to eat at some shopping mall, the one with the aquarium, can't remember the name. we talked about her life, her job, etc. somehow she convinced me to go watch this really really bad thai movie. she enjoyed it immensely, while i wanted to kill myself. anyway, we go back to my hotel and while she was really hot and sweet, the sex left a little something to be desired. she doesn't seem to be into it. there was hardly any bbbj, and while i know at my age i can't really last long, especially without my vitamins, i was hoping for her to keep at me. i mean, she is an escort, and i did pay the day. wasn't much kissing either. got to a point where i asked her with other clients, does she do a second round? again, maybe it's me fellas. i'm too much of a gentleman. perhaps if i insisted, or if i was more of a douche about it, i might have gotten more from her, but even if you pay a girl, you still can't be douchy about it, so what can i say? at least she was sweet though. with the events of the last 3 days, i was exhausted, and just called it a day.

fiona at pure bangkok escort. [url]http://purebangkokescorts.com/girls/fiona/[/url]

looks. 8 (yes, she does look like that fellas, but not as pale obviously)

attitude / delivery. 5 for the somewhat lackluster sex.

cost. $300 dollars for 10 hours (this supposedly pays for 3 shots, but i only got one with her. next time fellas, don't be so nice like me, insist on more and get your moneys worth)

recommended. if only for her looks and niceness, say you needed a chick to bring out for some fancy dinner.

day 4.

today was a definite improvement, and my first real lesson in thai mongering. sometimes, the less hot the chick, the better the performance. obviously, this is not always the case. just saying. diana, also known as honey can be found in 6 different escort sites. i booked her through bangkok hot escort. though the first time i found her photo was in another agency that she told me she didn't work for anymore. while not the best looking out there, there was something about her that made me drawn to her. a kind of honesty in her eyes. it's just like how you can spot crazy in someone's eyes, she had a kind of warmth in them peepers. and was i right. she was nice. in terms of performance, attitude, and overall experience she was the best on my entire trip. she was sweet, kind, naughty, sexy in her own way, good in bed. she's kinda cute, but she didn't have the best complexion on for that day, said something about being allergic to prawns, she just came back from a trip to pattaya or something, with some other dude i suppose. but she looked nice, gave me a nice kiss. i can't remember where we went to or even what we did on my first day with her. suffice it to say, the sex was good. she gave me a nice bathtub rub, drew out the session so it felt like i was being pampered, and she's good in the sense that she would every once in a while project herself into your future by making suggestions for 'next time'. i couldn't help myself so indeed i did get her for another day, and i'm sure she gets plenty of repeat business, but it gets even more interesting the next day when she makes me an offer i found difficult to refuse, but in the end i just had to refuse anyway. more out of laziness than anything else.

diana / jasmine / honey.

looks. 6 (she coulda been a 7 if not for the complexion issue)

attitude / delivery. 8.

cost. $300 dollars for 12 hours (yes, worth it. i got to cum twice, so all is good)

recommended. yes.

[url]http://www.bangkokhappytime.com/images/25/25.html[/url]

[url]http://www.erotikaqueens.com/#[/url]! diana / cu1q.

[url]http://www.bangkokhotescort.com/gallery/33-honey/139[/url]

plus a host of other sites.

day 5.

out of ideas, and out of places, dazed and confused, i call diana's personal number, and paid her directly basically, sans agency, so she shows up and while we did do our best to try to get to the palace and other more touristy places, because since i'm bangkok i might as well try to visit some palaces and stuff. but lo and behold the place is in the grip of some kind of protesty revolution. from what i remember this was back in the early days of the protests, so the violence hadn't arrived yet, but still parts of the city were tough to get around, so she and i ended up at a mall called mbk i think it was. did some bowling, pool, and then back to my hotel for one last fuck session. or was it two. i do recall that i manage to cim with her on this one so that was nice. she made it like how come i didn't tell her i was going to blow, but i think she knew. it was sexy, it was nice. this day was interesting because it was the day that i was suppose to get bangkok gold, the very popular agency. but some kind of miscommunication led me to being on their blacklist. it's all weird really, but what can you do? it was around midnight after diana left that i thought i just needed one more bang before i call it a night, so back to nana, and i can't be sure now if it was rainbow 2 or 3, but a tiny little chick with huge implant titties called 'lek' caught my eye. she was cute, again in a japanese type way with the makeup and stuff, while she was more businesslike than i'd prefer, the sex was good. i lasted longer than i thought i could, even with the finish by hand, and i experienced the little 'motel' like place they have upstairs to do the deed. i can't remember the room price but it was cheap, and i got her for short time, so if i remember it was something like 90 bucks total. not bad at all really.

now, back to diana and her offer that was hard to resist. if anyone here has had her, odds are you guys were offered the same, sadly i did not partake. i just didn't feel too comfortable with the idea and the short notice of it all, the way she made it out like. i don't know fellas, to each his own. i mean, i really wanted to. in the heat of the moment and all, but i've been mongering long enough to know that you just got to play it right. if not for yourself then for all the mongers after you. i should keep this cryptic, just in case it's something she doesn't want to be too know for. but i suspect this being bangkok, it's common enough. let's all just be more vigilant, eh fellas?

diana / honey.

looks. 6 (she coulda been a 7 if not for the complexion issue)

attitude / delivery. 8.

cost. $300 dollars for 12 hours.

recommended. yes.

lek (rainbow 2 or 3).

looks. 7.

attitude / delivery. 6.

cost. $90 dollars for 1 hour (bit pricey for bangkok, but how she looked with them bolt-ons, yeah, worth it)

recommended. not really.

day 6.

i'm getting a little jaded now. i'm glad i made the trip to experience what bangkok is all about, but it's been a little below expectations. i suppose with anything that gets hyped up so much, the reality tends to fall a little short. after a couple of days like this, i thought to go back to ez massage. the selection is not too great, but a chick called 'four' gets my attention. she fucks good, lots of kissing, but no bbbj to speak of, but she's patient at least. i finished by hand on her chest. so that was ok. at night it was time for the famous 'julie' from bangkok escort. in real life though, she doesn't look so nice, kinda average at best, but sexually she was good. i was able to come inside her twice. something like that at my age is not easy, especially with the rubber. i figured it must have been her ass. or her hip movements. whatever it was, she knew her trade well. if only she was cuter. nonetheless, she was the only one that was able to show up with a schoolgirl uniform, and even then it was the more skimpy tight, not so much the realistic type. funny, for a place like bangkok that is purportedly the most debauched of all mongering destinations, it was tough to find an escort that was into uniforms. also, for julie i got to deduct a point, because she made it out like she couldn't wait to leave. well, that was not cool.

four at ez massage 1. [url]http://ezmassagebkk.com/?model=four[/url]

looks. 7.

attitude / delivery. 6.

cost. $85 dollars for 2 hours (worth it, sure i had to finish by hand, but i got to pound that pussy for a good long while)

recommended. yes.

julie at bangkok escort. [url]http://bangkokescort.com/girls/julie/[/url]

looks. 5.5.

attitude / delivery. 7.

cost. $250 dollars for 4 hours (kinda worth it, because she milked me good)

recommended. sure, why not. cumming is a sure thing with her at least.

day 7.

for day 7, it was the worst of the worst. absolute worst. big mistake number 2 was today. cosmo bangkok was the place, and 'sky' was her name. again, looking at her photo, you can see crazy in her eyes, but i went for it anyway. stupid me. and the thing about this place is that none of the hot girls are available. i must've booked and rebooked like 5 times with the phone chick, and the only reason i continued was because at least the phone chick was nice. after the total disaster i called back the phone chick and complained, gave her a piece of my mind about the terrible experience. not that it would do anything, but fuck it. anyways, this sky chick shows up and looks okay i suppose. kinda below average actually, and on the way to one of them touristy places, because i like the idea of these chicks showing me around bangkok, she freaks the fuck out. i mean, just flippin' loses it. so i tells her, okay. lets go back to my hotel and call it a day. back at the hotel, she starts to lecture me. here, i am having spent thousands to fuck chicks, and i'm being berated like i have a girlfriend or wife. if i wanted to be treated like that, i'd get myself a girlfriend or wife, right fellas? so, i'm pissed. i'm really fucking pissed. and i have 2 options. fuck her or just tell her to leave. having spent money on this psycho already, i fucked her. i angry fucked her. i came inside that ***** and i said to myself, i'm okay with this, because it's obvious she's not happy to be here, but she's still obliged to fuck me. once i was done, i told her to get dressed and leave. i got the last laugh at least. the night time was better. i went to nataree massage and had one of the sideline chicks. the ones that were $166 bucks, said to have been fucked less, so a little more new to the game. the one that caught my eye was called 'nam fon', and again stupid me i didn't remember the tag number. she was stupendously gorgeous. easily hands down the best looking chick the whole trip. so fucking stunning, i was left speechless. performance wise she did seem kinda new to the game, but getting into the right asian cowgirl position, i was able to jizz in her. which is always my point, i get tired of always needing to finish by hand, i just had to know that with a condom on, without pharma aid, and in a fresh, juicy, tight pussy, i could still come inside a girl, and lo and behold, thanks to bangkok, i figured out i still can, and i know the best position for that now. i ended the night at either rainbow 1 or 2. i can't remember, and after having less than stellar experiences with these places, i was extra careful. like a creep, i just sat there and stared for hours at the girls that i might like, and i did my best to try to get a sense of their personality from their interactions on stage. one caught my eye because of her tiny size and really cute face, 'kay' was her name and again stupid me, i did not bother to remember the tag number. finally, almost at the end of my trip, i find a real gem in 'kay'. she's super sweet, and the very epitome of lady like. she's a real class act that one, a real classy dame. tiny frame, nice titties, super nice personality. the sex was okay, but lasted long enough with some variations in position that i was satisfied. i suspect that if i could have had her for longer, perhaps a couple of days, i may have gotten more from her. like maybe she'd loosen up a little. that being said, she was nice, for the price paid, those couple of hours was good.

sky at cosmo bangkok.

looks. 4.5.

attitude / delivery. minus 10.

cost. $250 bucks ($249 bucks too much)

recommended. only if you're nuts.

nam fon at nataree massage. [url]http://fullservicebkk.wordpress.com/2013/01/18/nataree-ratchadaphisek-road/[/url]

looks. a perfect 10!

attitude / delivery. 5.5.

cost. $170 (there was a kind of draw to her inexperience, but really, the experienced ladies is what we should want, if nothing else just to get going better)

recommended. just because she's super hot, other than that, probably not.

kay at rainbow 2 or 1. can't remember.

looks. 8.

attitude / delivery. 7.

cost. $130 for 5 hours (good company this one)

recommended. yes.

day 8.

anyways, i go back to ez massage and if memory serves me right, i did a good deal of back and forth between the 2 ez massages to make sure i get a nice girl. and even then not so much. the first chick i did was 'miki' at ez massage 2. not very responsive and for some strange reason she seems to think that if a dude likes his ass touched in any way, he's gay then. i'm like, okay, obviously she doesn't rim guys then. hell, most of these chicks don't. (i miss prague mostly because of this, i got rimmed like i couldn't fucking believe over there). anyways, she looks decent. but performance sub par. i then went to the angel mssage nearby and had nuut. she was very mechanical. i don't know if she's there anymore, can't find her profile on the website, but she went about her service like a very well rehearsed script, with robotic like precision. so, obviously i didn't nut with nuut. but she was hot. so that was enough for me. i finally went back to ez massage 1 and had a chick called orange, if nothing else because i just wanted to experience them bigger titties that she had. she's nice, some kissing and stuff. nothing like the photos on the website though obviously, same girl and all, but not as nice in real life. i ended the night by stopping by soi cowboy just to see what this place was all about. nice area. if i'm ever in this city again, i'd partake in this place.

mike at ez massage 2. [url]http://ezmassagebkk.com/?model=miki[/url]

looks. 7.

attitude / delivery. 5.

cost. $90 for 2 hours.

orange at ez massage 1. [url]http://ezmassagebkk.com/?model=orange[/url]

looks. 7.

attitude / delivery. 6.

cost. $90 for 2 hours.

the next day i was going to the airport and again encountered a shitty taxi driver. really fucking shitty. took the airtrain instead. good thing i always travel light with just one piece of luggage. there's something to be said about the cheap prices, but is it worth it just because they're cheap? the service was okay, to me, i didn't feel like it was anything better than what i had experienced in prague. just cheaper. but because they're all asian, it really is up to the individual what you want. i've mongered in many of the main mongering destinations of the world, all except bangkok. with this trip done, i can at least say i've finally done it. another notch to my belt. thanks for reading guys. don't get pissed at me if there's something here you disagree with. it's just words in a forum, to each his own fellas. happy mongering and fuck safe!

[quote=newton york;1536305]the night time was better. i went to nataree massage and had one of the sideline chicks. the ones that were $166 bucks, said to have been fucked less, so a little more new to the game. the one that caught my eye was called 'nam fon', and again stupid me i didn't remember the tag number. she was stupendously gorgeous. easily hands down the best looking chick the whole trip. so fucking stunning, i was left speechless.[/quote]amazing report:

lesson 1: this is bangkok, beautiful women are everywhere, forget photos and agencies and oil message fakes and select girls in-person up close, which in addition allows one to get a sense of the all-critical vibe level.

lesson 2: rtff. nataree has been mentioned 100's of times in this forum, its a diamond in the rough. the formula is simple. "old crummy rooms and low overhead, but hot young girls", and it works. over 5000 bahts? apparently you got one of the premium sideliners? left you speechless? lol, fair chance she's now part of some japanese business guy's personal collection.

lesson 3. never talk to vendors about the ff outside the ff (similar to fight club rules)

lesson 4: in terms of bangkok and the issue of whether its the alleged "mongering capital of the world". its certainly one of the most prolific if you include rich thais and east asians and their mistresses and concubines which they keep here. note that farangs on this forum that seem to view bangkok in the most favorable terms are here a lot, often weeks or even months at a time, sufficient to often have favorites all over the city, and understand and take advantage of many of the nuances of the p4p scene most shortterm mongers don't notice or are unaware of or are not in a position to benefit from, particularly in regard to repeat sessions with certain providers, and their positive attitude toward bangkok imho derives in part from the fact that in their overpriced home countries, the women are ballbusters, which they are reminded of every time they return home. in contrast, guys that live here year round can sometimes become very jaded and cynical, especially about price increases and worsening attitudes.

As I wrote in the title, I have visited Bangkok after 8 moths break. It was my 10th or 11th time in the City of Angels (plus a short time in Pattaya). My general impression is: everything is more expensive. Beer 155 bath! Compared to last year, when beer costed 100-120b, I have to say that we are ripped off. Bars are buying beer much cheaper and I guess we pay 500% of the price they bought beer. Similar situation is with cola or water. Interesting, Pattaya is still cheaper (Singha 120b, draught beer 60! Bath. On Soi Cowboy draught costs 120b). I don't know what they think. Probably that farangs are stupid. Anyway, I told my Thai friends about my observation and they only laughed and said: "well. Prices raised but only for foreigners".

About the action: I tried Analysa massage on Suk 57a. I had some time with Miss Peachy; however, it was not what I expected. I had a mood for a light domination but she is more into foot fetish than for being domina.

Cheers.

T. 72

[QUOTE=TigerCountry; 1536290]Definitely "game" since some real hotties on R4 (right ones) and Baccara (upper floor ones) will only go with Japs as I've read. I'm sure age comes to play too if you're not Jap. Also, I have south Asian origins which is another blow, but worse if I was black (kinda funny since Soi Cowboy's first bar was owned by a black American) , but hey most of these working girls have never graduated from college, why would they care about the history of the place they work in?

At the same time, I've read that Japs get charged more in Go Go's since they can afford it. The famous davetheravebangkok 4 rule or 2-3-4 rule or 3 rule. 4-inch dick. 4-minute sex. 4,000baht.

I don't necessarily see the attention they get as being super positive either. Although, they do get their way on high-end soapies with no foreigner surcharge or even in tourist places like the grand palace and siam ocean world.

On the other hand, I must also accept and be happy that some of these places that cater exclusively to Japs, really are meant for them and not me. I mean, their idea of fun in a karaoke is totally different to my concept of 'fun'. Also, these Jap-only hotties may be eye candy, but they probably wouldn't be able to handle more than 4-minutes and bigger than 4-inches. I can't stand hot women who can't "give it all to me" (quoting "I was made for loving you" by Kiss).

Believe me, I've tried to enjoy sex with a hot (9 or 10) europeans who couldn't please me and hated it all the way. Thus, it's really not that much of a loss to foreigners.

The bottom line is (and I have learned this from countless mistakes and bitter tears shed in other areas of my life, not just mongering)

Do your homework and you'll be rewarded. If you plan ahead of time and get informed on scams, discrimination and all the subtle and not-so subtle things you will be prepared (most of the time) and know what to expect. There's no excuse for people being upset afterwards and saying they weren't warned of such things beforehand. The info is all there. All you have to do is read (perhaps preceded by some digging / researching).

Once you know the places or things to avoid, you'll also know which ones are right to the individual or 'you' and many more solutions will inevitably become open.

For instance, I'll go to go go bars to enjoy seeing hot women dancing and some shows I want to see (Angelwitch and Spankys). However, I know my chances of barfining a super hot Baccara / Rainbow 4 girl are 1/1000 or less. Fine by me, I already know places where I can find better looking women in MP's who will fuck me for the green, regardless. Adjusting is the key and as I once told Paul via PM, I firmly believe it should always be a fair business transaction. However, Thai girls today earn too much money today not to discriminate based on age and race. No problem, there is still much supply elsewhere where they will take you. .

P4P is going to keep growing. I highly doubt it'll decrease. One thing that does make me a little mad in Asia is the excessive tipping. It causes too much inflation and girls expectation increases. I'll make sure I keep things very controlled.[/QUOTE]The Jap issue is not decisive in most venues, except perhaps Thermae and only with some extremely cute girls and that's mostly before midnight. Even in Baccarra the Jap issue has become increasingly irrelevant, with many girls hanging all over Farangs.

As for Go Go's and (non go go) regular bars, if one also does their "homework" AFTER they are in Bangkok and they make a conscious and determined effort to inventory the clubs to understand exactly what is available (this can actually be done in Nana in a day or two) they will have a good selection of hotties for takeouts (and perhaps a decent vibe also) The odds are in fact quite good.

[QUOTE=Newton York;1536305]I got to say though, I did all I could to get a booking with goldie's, so much has been said about how great they are, but they just wouldn't fit me in their schedule. Also, while I did manage to speak to the dude on the phone, I suspect that something I said may have put me on their shit list. I don't know why I assumed paul kaush was the owners husband, I remember reading somewhere here the name of goldie's husband and I just assumed it was him because paul kausch speaks a lot about goldies. The dude on the other line said something about the international sex guide, and mere hours later I get an email from them telling me they won't be able to accommodate me. Sadly, I had already given them my real name, so that means I will never be able to use their services (since I'm on their shit-list) should I ever be in Bangkok.[/QUOTE]My good man, I am not Goldie's husband. I've never met them. I've talked to the husband on the phone; I've exchanged many emails with both. I have commented in many posts that I like both of them. Goldie's husband interrogates potential new clients carefully. Hard to tell why you alarmed him. To book one of their ladies you must give the name of the hotel and the name you are booked under, so unless you managed to book a room under an alias it will would be difficult to engage one of their ladies using a false name.

[QUOTE=Newton York; 1536305]Fiona at pure Bangkok escort.

[url]http://purebangkokescorts.com/girls/fiona/[/url]

Looks. 8 (yes, she does look like that fellas, but not as pale obviously)

Attitude / delivery. 5 for the somewhat lackluster sex.

Cost. $300 Dollars for 10 hours (this supposedly pays for 3 shots, but I only got one with her. Next time fellas, don't be so nice like me, insist on more and get your moneys worth)

Recommended. If only for her looks and niceness, say you needed a chick to bring out for some fancy dinner.[/QUOTE]Should have read the review of Fiona I posted a few weeks ago. As I emphasized in my review, she is (or at least was at that time) very inexperienced. However, frankly, I had a lot of fun with her and found her to be a very horny young lady with a considerable sexual appetite. I only manage one shot about every eight hours; however, we sucked and fucked for several hours and she manged four or five shots.

Of course YMMV.

[QUOTE=TigerCountry; 1536290]Definitely "game" since some real hotties on R4 (right ones) and Baccara (upper floor ones) will only go with Japs as I've read. .[/QUOTE]Not sure where you got the "right side" of Rainbow 4 idea that they won't go with Farangs. In fact #15 and a right side dancer (half way down) a blonde stunner seems to actually focus on Farangs. Also Mai (#196) also a right side dancer (also half way down) with a great ass and terrific personality, and is very hot also goes with Farangs. Also I can personally verify I've seen a smoking hot upstairs Baccarra girl go with a 30 something severely drunk British dude, and this was a month or so before the Jan 12th "Shutdown Bangkok" protests kicked the business down even more

i'll be arriving in bkk in 5days, this will be my 3rd trip to thailand so i'm still kinda a newbie. my last trip was before new years, had a great time but still wanted better. i've had bell from bangkokgoldescorts and wasnt that impressed. she was nice and all and body was what i wanted, but performance wise she wasn't the pse type i expected after reading reviews. she wasn't a starfish but wasn't good either, i won't see her again.

i had girls at mango, annies, bamboo. mangos rooms are kinda a dump, little bugs throughout, kinda grossed out. girls have always taken good care. did anything i wanted but still would give over experience a 7 out 10. annies was a bit better because i like being in the soapy bathtub with them, but the rooms were bigger than mango and somewhat nicer but still dumpy. overall would have to say 7. 5 out 10. bamboos, i'd give a 8 of 10, rooms were nice and fresh. had a good time with one girl at the place and then for my second time i had ploy come to my hotel. she was pretty cool and i had a great time with her, probably the best of the massage girls i had but i hoped she was hotter but she was still cute. i really want stunners tho.

so then i go to rainbow 4 a few nights. one of them was a stunner, super hot, amazing natural tits, killer body, fucked me real good and was active and got into real good positions, she really knew how to fuck and was pse style but no anal. and the worst part, she wouldn't do bbbj. a condom for a bj is deal breaker for me back in usa, but its my fault because i didn't ask her what her limits were when we were at the club. next had a super tiny girl from rainbow4, like novelty tiny. she prolly weighed 75lbs. performed well and i basically was throwing her around and really used her as a handheld masturbator. wouldn't take her again tho, something wasnt totally together with her. maybe mixture of anorexia or drugs. idk. had two more rainbow girls, they were cute, but performance was average.

i went to dr bjs salon and sampled 'l'. she was accommodating but i want more. i really want a girl that will let me rough face fuck her with spit running out of her mouth down her neck, hard deepthroat, she could even puke on me as long as she's super and really gives it her all. i find most thai girls give lacklust bjs. some were good, but the american girls i'm use too really are super working girls when it comes to sloppy hard deepthroating. so the bar is pretty high. i've also had amazing times in europe with romanian girls.

before i flew out i went to eden club. on previous trip i went to devils den in pattaya and it was lackluster mechanical and would rank it a 6 out of 10. i should have been more aggressive with the girls. eden was a little better, but still not super amazing. i think porn has ruined me. i really want these working girls to be cum hungry nymphs but they just going thru the motions.

so for my 3rd trip coming up i need advice. where am i going to find the girls and at least decent actors? if you guys ever seen some of the porn vids from asian apple seed, that's what i'm talking about. i got money to spend i'm not cheap charlie, so i'll pay a premium for better service. buts she got to be stellar. also interested any recommandations for really long time, like 3 or 4 days. i kinda want to get a good girl and take her to phuket or koi samui and have a girlfriend experience getway. i found some escort sites online that so rates for days. anyone have experience with bangkok escort girl. com? or what about sunnydebkk. com? she independant, pricey but not as much as the other one i found, tuk bangkok. com. she wants 15,000baht for 2 hours? insane.

does anyone have advice with how to go about getting a girl for a few days, take her and yourself to a doctors get std tested, if she's clean i want to bareback all vacation long. thats truly my goal, i will never ever ever fuck one of these girls without them being tested (even tho here in the states, i've slipped up many a times with k-girls and some amp girls, bareback but never caught anything). are they receptive to this?

this trip i will sample bamboo again, maybe la belle for novelty factor (intrigued by the luxury of it) , or poseidon, i want to order more girls to my room was going to use ez massage website. maybe nan from bangkokgold or if anyone else recommends someone different. make it to soi cowboy. and angelwitch in nana (saw some good ones in there last time but they got scooped up before i could chose them). i kinda want to fuck a super hot and feminine ladyboy too. any advice for them?

last time i saw this older guy with these two chicks, they looked super young, but were prolly 18, one had red hair the other green hair, punk hipsters, they were bi and all over each other on the bts in a sexy playful way. they had marijuana leave tattoos on them too which i liked because you know these girls party. they looked like total nymphs, i was about to ask the guy where he found them. i would love to sample some girls like that.

how is freelance girls at nana or any of the clubs? i never went to any of them. i'll be solo and was a little apprehensive going to clubs like that solo.

i'll be in pattaya for sure for 2 days, looking to bang some russians there for a change of pace. going to visit campagne and some other places on walking street but don't know where else to go. lots of massage places, i suppose just kinda walk around and take a peek around like i did last time. any standouts must sees?

if anyone wants to meet up and share their wisdom with a newbie like me that would be great. looking forward to making this my best trip yet.

[QUOTE=Newton York;1536305]Happy mongering and fuck safe![/QUOTE]Thanks for the awesome review mate! Will be in BKK next month so your nfo was very helpful. Little concerned that Grand Palace and such are blocked, but I'm here for mongering anyway. Oh well, looks like I'll find something else to do and it'll help to focus more on the sex scene.

[QUOTE=Hioctane; 1534897]Guys,

This will be my virgin trip to Thailand. I have a buddy who's been to Thailand before and loves it. He suggests that I skip Bangkok due to the political unrest and head straight for Pattaya. Being my virgin trip, I would like to spend at least a couple of days here. What do you guys think? Are the monger areas safe? What should I avoid?[/QUOTE]I have been here many times. I too am reaching BKK on 27th, but I am leaving for Pattaya directly as that would be more fun, as the protests in BKK would mean a lot of thinking as to which route to take etc. So better head off to Pattaya, I feel it will be better idea. I am mongering just 2 days and then I shall be back to BKK to see my new house and gf, so 1st I shall finish my mongering or else would have loved to show you around Pattaya. But anyways I am sure you will handle it quite well.

[QUOTE=Western787;1536419]The Jap issue is not decisive in most venues, except perhaps Thermae and only with some extremely cute girls and that's mostly before midnight. Even in Baccarra the Jap issue has become increasingly irrelevant, with many girls hanging all over Farangs.[/QUOTE]Regarding Thermae, yes, there are some ladies who won't go with 50+ year old blonde white guys (even though I think I look younger. Ha-ha.)

However, some of the best P4P experiences I have had in BKK were with ladies from Thermae. They are significantly more expensive than 5 years ago, but they aren't computers, so that's life. And for a guy from the land of frigid stuck-up bitches (USA) it's a great feeling to see the free market at work. All those lovlies legally waiting to be selected by you to satisfy their most passionate erotic dreams. (Always think positive ;^)

[QUOTE=Newton York;1536305]I got to say though, I did all I could to get a booking with goldie's, so much has been said about how great they are, but they just wouldn't fit me in their schedule. Also, while I did manage to speak to the dude on the phone, I suspect that something I said may have put me on their shit list. I don't know why I assumed[/QUOTE]Only 1 monger recommends BKK gold and its generally assumed he has ulterior motives.

Try this:

[url]http://www.bkk141.com[/url]

[QUOTE=George300;1536448]So for my 3rd trip coming up I need advice. Where am I going to find the girls and at least decent actors? If you guys ever seen some of the porn vids from Asian apple seed, that's what I'm talking about. I got money to spend I'm not cheap charlie, so I'll pay a premium for better service. Buts she got to be stellar.[/QUOTE]I've seen some of the Asian Apple Seed video's (not really my kind of fun, but YMMV) and you will really have to look far and wide before you will find a Thai girl that will perform according to the Apple Seed scripts. At least I haven't met any girl that was into that kind of rough sex, but perhaps I did not look in the right (or wrong) places. Most of the Apple Seed sex is degrading and disrespectful and I always had the feeling that most girls were either drugged or had some terminal brain damage.

[QUOTE=George300;1536448]Also interested any recommandations for really long time, like 3 or 4 days. I kinda want to get a good girl and take her to phuket or koi samui and have a girlfriend experience getaway.[/QUOTE]That is something we all dream about, but is not easy to arrange up front with any chance of success. Having an ST session with a girl or even an LT experience will give no guarantee that she will be enjoyable for the whole duration of the trip, unless you plan to fuck her the whole time. What will you talk about in-between sessions? What do you have in common? Nothing as bad as spending time with someone with whom you have no "click"!

So your quest is to find someone you really like and she at least pretends the same about you. But unless you try someone, you will not know. A good plan might be to take someone for LT and when you are happy with her sexual services, invite her to spend an afternoon or so in a mall, or a market, or ask her to guide you to some touristy places. If all of that goes well, you can invite her to a trip to the islands. If she works in a club you will have to pay barfine for the whole period, plus her fees of course. A total cost of 2000 to 3000 baht per day plus all travel, food and hotel expenses, seems a minimum budget.

But perhaps it is better to start surfing the dating sites and find yourself a real girlfriend. ;)

[QUOTE=Rjsss212; 1536597]Only 1 monger recommends BKK gold and its generally assumed he has ulterior motives.

Try this:

[url]http://www.bkk141.com[/url][/QUOTE]"Generally assumed" by one or two perhaps?

[QUOTE=Wolvenvacht;1536739]"Generally assumed" by one or two perhaps?[/QUOTE]I can't read this gentlemen's posts, but while escort review sites give Bangkok Gold good reviews, here's an example of what they say about BKK141.

[I]Large selection of girls from 23 years + but unfortunately with the worst service you can imagine. We booked 3 girls during two days in April 2012 and all of them had their period (Kung, Nuch and Bell) A refund request was always declined by a British guy named "Scott" and his female Thai Mamasam "Nee". Unfortunately we had no chance to avoid this because every girl was asking for the payment within 5 minuted upon arrival. In addition we had to pick up with some serious phone terror including extortion because all girls got nuts after we informed the escort agency. Stay away[/I]

While Bangkok Gold is my favorite escort service, it is not the only escort service I use. However, BKK141 is a service I would never use.

For what it's worth, I've never had any of the escorts our MP girls on outcall I've used ask for money upfront. If one did, I'd immediately send her on her way.

[QUOTE=George300;1536448]Does anyone have advice with how to go about getting a girl for a few days, take her and yourself to a doctors get STD tested, if she's clean I want to bareback all vacation long. Thats truly my goal, I will never ever ever fuck one of these girls without them being tested (even tho here in the states, I've slipped up many a times with k-girls and some AMP girls, bareback but never caught anything). Are they receptive to this?[/QUOTE]Its possible for really nice respectful guys that treat a girl well, to get to know a beautiful girl over time, and take her away for a few days like she was a girlfriend. I don't like your chances. You best start off with the pornstar MP shops and see if you develop a good rapport with some hottie.

Many of us already know a girl real well that could be our holiday girl. Its not an instant thing.

[QUOTE=Syzygies; 1536768]Its possible for really nice respectful guys that treat a girl well, to get to know a beautiful girl over time, and take her away for a few days like she was a girlfriend. I don't like your chances. You best start off with the pornstar MP shops and see if you develop a good rapport with some hottie.

Many of us already know a girl real well that could be our holiday girl. Its not an instant thing.[/QUOTE]I've known a girl ('The Shrimp') in BKK for about 5 years now. We clicked when we first met. I've taken her to Krabi (twice) , Koh Samet, Koh Chang, and a few other places including a week in Singapore. I'll be seeing her again in a couple of weeks. An absolute delight and a pleasure to be with. If we get bored I buy her a couple of magazines, or watch a film, or go for a massage, or a bike ride, there is always something to do.

[QUOTE=Newton York;1536305]The service was okay, to me, I didn't feel like it was anything better than what I had experienced in prague. Just cheaper. But because they're all asian, it really is up to the individual what you want. I've mongered in many of the main mongering destinations of the world, all except Bangkok. With this trip done, I can at least say I've finally done it. Another notch to my belt. Thanks for reading guys. Don't get pissed at me if there's something here you disagree with. It's just words in a forum, to each his own fellas. Happy mongering and fuck safe![/QUOTE]Your experience is so different to mine, not least perhaps in your approach. As a trivial example, in all my trips to BKK I have never had 'a shitty taxi driver', as you put it. I've had some troublesome ones, but nothing that couldn't be solved with a smile. There is an Asian way of doing things, and I am hardly an expert, but I usually have a pretty good time wherever I go in Asia.

But like you say, that's what your experience was. So here's my challenge to you: I'm going to Prague next week, so please give me a couple of pointers to having a good time. And I'll report back as to which was more fun! My limited research so far on Prague makes me want to save my money for BKK (the following week).

[quote=george300; 1536448]i'll be arriving in bkk in 5days, this will be my 3rd trip to thailand so i'm still kinda a newbie. my last trip was before new years, had a great time but still wanted better. i've had bell from bangkokgoldescorts and wasnt that impressed. she was nice and all and body was what i wanted, but performance wise she wasn't the pse type i expected after reading reviews. she wasn't a starfish but wasn't good either, i won't see her again.

i had girls at mango, annies, bamboo. mangos rooms are kinda a dump, little bugs throughout, kinda grossed out. girls have always taken good care. did anything i wanted but still would give over experience a 7 out 10. annies was a bit better because i like being in the soapy bathtub with them, but the rooms were bigger than mango and somewhat nicer but still dumpy. overall would have to say 7. 5 out 10. bamboos, i'd give a 8 of 10, rooms were nice and fresh. had a good time with one girl at the place and then for my second time i had ploy come to my hotel. she was pretty cool and i had a great time with her, probably the best of the massage girls i had but i hoped she was hotter but she was still cute. i really want stunners tho.

so then i go to rainbow 4 a few nights. one of them was a stunner, super hot, amazing natural tits, killer body, fucked me real good and was active and got into real good positions, she really knew how to fuck and was pse style but no anal. and the worst part, she wouldn't do bbbj. a condom for a bj is deal breaker for me back in usa, but its my fault because i didn't ask her what her limits were when we were at the club. next had a super tiny girl from rainbow4, like novelty tiny. she prolly weighed 75lbs. performed well and i basically was throwing her around and really used her as a handheld masturbator. wouldn't take her again tho, something wasnt totally together with her. maybe mixture of anorexia or drugs. idk. had two more rainbow girls, they were cute, but performance was average.

i went to dr bjs salon and sampled 'l'. she was accommodating but i want more. i really want a girl that will let me rough face fuck her with spit running out of her mouth down her neck, hard deepthroat, she could even puke on me as long as she's super and really gives it her all. i find most thai girls give lacklust bjs. some were good, but the american girls i'm use too really are super working girls when it comes to sloppy hard deepthroating. so the bar is pretty high. i've also had amazing times in europe with romanian girls.

before i flew out i went to eden club. on previous trip i went to devils den in pattaya and it was lackluster mechanical and would rank it a 6 out of 10. i should have been more aggressive with the girls. eden was a little better, but still not super amazing. i think porn has ruined me. i really want these working girls to be cum hungry nymphs but they just going thru the motions.

so for my 3rd trip coming up i need advice. where am i going to find the girls and at least decent actors? if you guys ever seen some of the porn vids from asian apple seed, that's what i'm talking about. i got money to spend i'm not cheap charlie, so i'll pay a premium for better service. buts she got to be stellar. also interested any recommandations for really long time, like 3 or 4 days. i kinda want to get a good girl and take her to phuket or koi samui and have a girlfriend experience getway. i found some escort sites online that so rates for days. anyone have experience with bangkok escort girl. com? or what about sunnydebkk. com? she independant, pricey but not as much as the other one i found, tuk bangkok. com. she wants 15, 000baht for 2 hours? insane.

does anyone have advice with how to go about getting a girl for a few days, take her and yourself to a doctors get std tested, if she's clean i want to bareback all vacation long. thats truly my goal, i will never ever ever fuck one of these girls without them being tested (even tho here in the states, i've slipped up many a times with k-girls and some amp girls, bareback but never caught anything). are they receptive to this?

this trip i will sample bamboo again, maybe la belle for novelty factor (intrigued by the luxury of it) , or poseidon, i want to order more girls to my room was going to use ez massage website. maybe nan from bangkokgold or if anyone else recommends someone different. make it to soi cowboy. and angelwitch in nana (saw some good ones in there last time but they got scooped up before i could chose them). i kinda want to fuck a super hot and feminine ladyboy too. any advice for them?

last time i saw this older guy with these two chicks, they looked super young, but were prolly 18, one had red hair the other green hair, punk hipsters, they were bi and all over each other on the bts in a sexy playful way. they had marijuana leave tattoos on them too which i liked because you know these girls party. they looked like total nymphs, i was about to ask the guy where he found them. i would love to sample some girls like that.

how is freelance girls at nana or any of the clubs? i never went to any of them. i'll be solo and was a little apprehensive going to clubs like that solo.

i'll be in pattaya for sure for 2 days, looking to bang some russians there for a change of pace. going to visit campagne and some other places on walking street but don't know where else to go. lots of massage places, i suppose just kinda walk around and take a peek around like i did last time. any standouts must sees?

if anyone wants to meet up and share their wisdom with a newbie like me that would be great. looking forward to making this my best trip yet.[/quote]taking your criteria literally could be summed up as follows: a 9 plus drop dead gorgeous playful stunner willing on shortnotice to go on a multi day trip to 24/7 fuck bareback, take it up the ass, deep down the throat and all hardcore style but only after you've tested her for stds. sounds like the hardcore version of "aibolit" the poster a year or so back with the most demanding criteria i've seen listed.

unless you're brad pitt or are enormously wealthy and willing to pay extraordinary amounts odds are 1 in a 1000. such girls are looking for a cash-heavy sponsor to pay their full freight and simply being paid a "premium' for a few days means nothing to them.

now that said, you may get lucky and run into a go go stunner who happens to be in heat at the right time of the month and will go bareback but then agreeing to test? unlikely and there is a window issue with hiv, making it all somewhat meaningless anyway

now as for whether that was routinely doable 15 to 20 years ago in bangkok, not sure, but perhaps some experts in that era can comment on that.

as for guys walking into nana clubs solo?. its an absolute irrelevant issue with probably one third to one half of all patrons entering clubs solo. the crime issue for example is next to non existent in these clubs. when you visit you will understand how irrelevant and absurd the entire wingman issue is, and in fact wingmen can limit your flexibility in bangkok, cut down the flexibility one needs to more from venue to venue. the city itself is extermely safem especially in the main areas, and only the protests have complcated the rules a bit. farangs are all in the same boat, so its fairly common for the guy next to you to be making comments about the dancers and so forth.

[QUOTE=TigerCountry;1536512]Thanks for the awesome review mate! Will be in BKK next month so your nfo was very helpful. Little concerned that Grand Palace and such are blocked, but I'm here for mongering anyway. Oh well, looks like I'll find something else to do and it'll help to focus more on the sex scene.[/QUOTE]Yeah, it was tough to even try to get there. In the end, the chick I was with and I just gave up and went to a mall instead. It's possible to get there via the subway and stuff, but when I was there, the real violence hadn't started yet. Until things calm down, I would recommend sticking to the mongering areas. I never even got close to a single temple or palace, but somehow I felt like I got the most of Bangkok.

[QUOTE=Mouse1; 1536781]Your experience is so different to mine, not least perhaps in your approach. As a trivial example, in all my trips to BKK I have never had 'a shitty taxi driver', as you put it. I've had some troublesome ones, but nothing that couldn't be solved with a smile. There is an Asian way of doing things, and I am hardly an expert, but I usually have a pretty good time wherever I go in Asia.

But like you say, that's what your experience was. So here's my challenge to you: I'm going to Prague next week, so please give me a couple of pointers to having a good time. And I'll report back as to which was more fun! My limited research so far on Prague makes me want to save my money for BKK (the following week).[/QUOTE]I don't know compadre, sounds to me like you're not going to like prague. Trust me man, it's two very very different experiences. Not to mention if you're going now, it's cold too. I think it almost goes with saying that you won't like it compared to Bangkok. But its okay man, to each his own you know. We've all got our preferences. I like prague for specific reasons. Just like how you like Bangkok. Perhaps it's how I worded my report, making things sound worse than it is. Bangkok was okay, I'd go back if I had the cash. Its sayonara from me after these posts, I got to semi-retire because of lousy financials. Happy mongering dude, and fuck safe!

[quote=western787; 1536328]amazing report:

lesson 1: this is bangkok, beautiful women are everywhere, forget photos and agencies and oil message fakes and select girls in-person up close, which in addition allows one to get a sense of the all-critical vibe level.

lesson 2: rtff. nataree has been mentioned 100's of times in this forum, its a diamond in the rough. the formula is simple."old crummy rooms and low overhead, but hot young girls", and it works. over 5000 bahts? apparently you got one of the premium sideliners? left you speechless? lol, fair chance she's now part of some japanese business guy's personal collection.

lesson 3. never talk to vendors about the ff outside the ff (similar to fight club rules)

lesson 4: in terms of bangkok and the issue of whether its the alleged "mongering capital of the world". its certainly one of the most prolific if you include rich thais and east asians and their mistresses and concubines which they keep here. note that farangs on this forum that seem to view bangkok in the most favorable terms are here a lot, often weeks or even months at a time, sufficient to often have favorites all over the city, and understand and take advantage of many of the nuances of the p4p scene most shortterm mongers don't notice or are unaware of or are not in a position to benefit from, particularly in regard to repeat sessions with certain providers, and their positive attitude toward bangkok imho derives in part from the fact that in their overpriced home countries, the women are ballbusters, which they are reminded of every time they return home. in contrast, guys that live here year round can sometimes become very jaded and cynical, especially about price increases and worsening attitudes.[/quote]yes, agreed. i learned those lessons first hand. is that what she was? a premium sideliner. there were like 4 of them, but she was the best looking, i was wondering what set them apart. in hindsight, as hot as she was, and if given the time, i think i'd try the others. but man, there were so many, how does one choose? lesson 4 is spot on dude. spot on. i probably need another a few more trips before i can feel like i really like the place. its very 'alive' compared to europe obviously. the energy, the heat, the humidity, all the sweating one does, etc. but it did feel kinda messy to me, which again makes sense it being the third world and all. sure, the malls and surrounding were clean and nice, but bangkok has that chaotic energy, the mess of it all, that needs a little patience to deal with. i'm not putting the place down, i'm just saying it's different. i just like places that have large and clean sidewalks to walk on. having experienced bangkok and how different it is, even very different from singapore which i enjoyed mongering in, i just got to say that whatever one might feel of the city itself, the chicks are worth a look-see.

Well, whatever it is the husband felt me weird, and I'm on their shit list now, and since they got my real name I can't ever, never ever book with goldies. I don't know how I feel about that. It really depends if I'm ever going back to Bangkok. Don't get me wrong fellas, I know my review back there seemed less than stellar, but I think it was pretty balanced. But I've always been more partial to the blondes / brunettes anyway. This whole Bangkok thing was just something I needed to try. I wanted to try 'asian'. I know for a lot of you fellas here, it's pretty much home. I respect you for that. If I can afford it, I'd be back too, right now though cash is tight. Well, at least the chicks were cheap. Overall, it was an eye opening experience. I know fellas, I saw it too, there were a lot of hotties, no doubt. Some hotter than I could have conceived possible. While Bangkok itself is something that needs getting used to, the chicks are definitely worth a visit. If I have more time and money, I'll be back.

[QUOTE=Western787;1536328]Note that Farangs on this forum that seem to view Bangkok in the most favorable terms are here a lot, often weeks or even months at a time, sufficient to often have favorites all over the city, and understand and take advantage of many of the nuances of the P4P scene most shortterm mongers don't notice or are unaware of or are not in a position to benefit from, particularly in regard to repeat sessions with certain providers.... In contrast, guys that live here year round can sometimes become very jaded and cynical, especially about price increases and worsening attitudes.[/QUOTE]This makes a lot of sense!

spent three days in bkk, having arrived swiftly in bell travel service's bus from pattaya. left hotel at 8.30, checked in bkk hotel at 11 am so it was very fast / smooth and cheap indeed. hardly 5 passengers in the bus. called one of old contact from oilies. she arrived within an hour and the next few hours just flew. all i know is by the time we were finished, it was close to midnight already. went for a walk towards nana from asok intersection which is blocked by protesters. it is certainly bit tense but not too much. mostly loud rabble rousing speeches followed by some entertainment. one has to walk through the small channels and show the bags. one can also use the mrt walkway which has been reduced to half size, one half is taken up by protesters. business has been hit badly around protest area but seems to be not too bad in other places which are also almost normal in terms of atmosphere. soi cowboy was hopeless, mostly very ugly looking slim girls. went into baccara on two nights. lots and lots of girls as usual, not one good looking one. plenty of ippuns, not as many as last year. very few farangs. went to rajah hotel to check russian presence. omfg. bloody fuglies. why did they even enter this line. pimp said few more girls upstairs after 10 pm and quoted 2700 but i won't settle for less than 25000 bahts just touching me lol. same situation in grace hotel but around 11 pm the lineup outside hotel improved a bit and i saw 3-5 girls who i would rate as 6. mostly fat ugly stani girls. the wgs have practically deserted asok area and are now found in nana and soi 5-12 areas. nana is not my cup of tea anyways but the ones on sukumvit were hopless. didn't even feel like asking them the rates. went to bier garden around 3 pm. absoloutely crap. old geezers and old providers. about 30-40 onsite and not one good looking one. repeated another laste evening, still nothing attractive. picked up two wgs from sukumvit during my three day stay, both quoted 1000 bahts. pretty good service. also took fancy to a cutie in one of the massage shops in front of citadines 23 but she wanted 1500 for full service so told her to stop massage after 20 minutes. she was surprised when ai tipped her. had just started so was not business savvy, hopefully will be smarter for you guys. did a bit of tourist thing, went to grand palace (500 baht entry fee) and ayutthya. both are excellent to take a break and snap few pics. on last day called my contact again. the evening with her just flew and 4 hours and 2 shots later, it was only time enough for a 4 hour nap before my flight so thus ended my bangkok trip. left bkk with heavy heart, feeling as if ai now have a mistress in bkk who sucked all my time an. the you know what.

[QUOTE=Newton York;1536814]I don't know compadre, sounds to me like you're not going to like prague. Trust me man, it's two very very different experiences. Not to mention if you're going now, it's cold too. I think it almost goes with saying that you won't like it compared to Bangkok. But its okay man, to each his own you know. We've all got our preferences. I like prague for specific reasons. Just like how you like Bangkok. Perhaps it's how I worded my report, making things sound worse than it is. Bangkok was okay, I'd go back if I had the cash. Its sayonara from me after these posts, I got to semi-retire because of lousy financials. Happy mongering dude, and fuck safe![/QUOTE]Bangkok has always been very hit and miss to me. When I first started coming here 20 years ago it was about girls really not having a lot of skills and often not willing to smoke but they almost always had great attitudes. Now they are generally more skillful at the practice of sex but very hit and miss in their attitudes. But with a little work you could and still can find girls that have both good skills and good attitudes. But there will certainly be some bombs thrown in before you do. Still I have to wonder if your streak of bad luck was somewhat self-inflicted. A lot of effort was clearly put into choosing girls from Escort Services for goodly amounts of money but geez hardly anyone that I know uses escort services. They are truly Russian Roulette. Maybe they are better back in Europe but in Bangkok, no way should you use them. Pay up front? Lord no. Your chances of bad service increase dramatically if you do that in an escort service or in pretty much any service. Best value for money is generally freelancers found in discos and various other venues. Gogo's though have the better looking women and at least you can spend some time with them and measure the chemistry and their attitude. Still your chances of a great experience is only 50/50 if that. But the fact that you had two disagreeable experiences with taxi drivers really seems odd and makes me wonder about you. In all my years of coming and living here I have never had one problem with a driver. Some may not want to put on the meter so you just wait for one who will. Bangkok is great if you allow it to be great but stay away from escort services and queens in go-gos.

[QUOTE=Newton York;1536819]I probably need another a few more trips before I can feel like I really like the place. Its very 'alive' compared to europe obviously. The energy, the heat, the humidity, all the sweating one does, etc. But it did feel kinda messy to me, which again makes sense it being the third world and all. Sure, the malls and surrounding were clean and nice, but Bangkok has that chaotic energy, the mess of it all, that needs a little patience to deal with. I'm not putting the place down, I'm just saying it's different. I just like places that have large and clean sidewalks to walk on. Having experienced Bangkok and how different it is, even very different from Singapore which I enjoyed mongering in, I just got to say that whatever one might feel of the city itself, the chicks are worth a look-see.[/QUOTE]Ahh, BKK. Like many Asian cities, it's "organized chaos." It's a fascinating place, where there is always something going on. The traffic, the crazy moto taxis, walking down the street with one eye on the ground for holes and obstacles, one eye up for forehead-height awning poles, a third eye on traffic approaching from behind, and a fourth eye for the random elephant. As the song says, it's truly "A show with everything but Yul Brynner."

Mmm, the heat and humidity! The smells of delicious food wafting from every street corner. The smiles from the vendors, the "Hello hansum man" from the door girls, the high-buck restaurants cheek by jowl with sidewalk noodle stands, the sense of the anticipation when venturing out at night to find a new girl. As George C. Scott said in Patton."God help me, I do love it so!"

The Europhiles can keep Europe with its wide boulevards and spotless streets. To quote Kipling, "If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you'll never 'eed naught else." You've either heard the East calling, or you haven't. There's no shame in not hearing it. To each his own and no judgment from this corner of farangdom.

[QUOTE=Newton York;1536814]I like prague for specific reasons. Just like how you like Bangkok. Perhaps it's how I worded my report, making things sound worse than it is. Bangkok was okay, I'd go back if I had the cash. Its sayonara from me after these posts, I got to semi-retire because of lousy financials. Happy mongering dude, and fuck safe![/QUOTE][QUOTE=DRRonin; 1536857]Bangkok has always been very hit and miss to me.

But with a little work you could and still can find girls that have both good skills and good attitudes. But there will certainly be some bombs thrown in before you do.

A lot of effort was clearly put into choosing girls from Escort Services for goodly amounts of money but geez hardly anyone that I know uses escort services. They are truly Russian Roulette.

Best value for money is generally freelancers found in discos and various other venues. Gogo's though have the better looking women[/QUOTE]DR Ronin, I like your post. It reflects ISG at it's best. Guys sharing knowledge, experiences and opinions. I'm going to offer some different opinions, which is not to say mine are right and yours are wrong. They're just different.

First, I think Bangkok is mostly hit and very little miss. Like you I've never had problems with taxis drivers, nor with waitresses, hotel employees, sales clerks and other civilian workers. I just remember where I am and how I should act if I want social interactions to go well. For me, that is part of the fun. I think the hotel accommodations are great value and the food is cheap and very good. My preferences with the ladies is where our opinions differ.

I've spent time with the gogo girls, FLs, MP girls and escorts. If you do your homework my experience is the least risk, best looking ladies (good manners, nicely dressed and at least decent English) and the best sex by far is with the escorts. I've never had an escort ask me to pay her upfront and have always been pleased with the lady. I agree the gogo girls generally are more attractive than the FLs, but I find both are a crap shoot. Sex with most is average. With a few it is better than average. With a few it is below average. Of course a guy living in Bangkok can shop around, find a few of the exceptional ladies and see them on a regular basis. I think the MPs are a good place to find good performers. Not all the MP ladies are great looking, but again, by doing your homework you can seek out ladies who get good reviews and pick one whose looks you like. Sure we all know YMMV, but there are those ladies who get consistently good reviews. How many bad reviews did Apple at Cherry Massage ever get? I can't recall even one. Of course she was exceptionally good, but there are other ladies out there who get consistently good reviews. Just RTFF! The problem with the MP ladies is even a good performer can give lack luster service if she's been exceptionally busy. My reviews of #24 (Aor) at Annie's is a good example of this. She was fantastic the first time (as good as the best escorts) but only average the second time after having her ass and pussy fucked nonstop for two days. This is not a problem with the escorts because the good agencies monitor and limit how many clients a lady sees over a given time interval. I think the best value is a good MP lady on overnight outcall. For example, Pure Bangkok Escorts (I pick them because they are one of the less expensive escort agencies) charges 9000 (plus whatever tip you may choose to give) for ten hours. For 5000 plus tip you can pick up one of Annie's ladies at 4:30pm and have her stay with you until she needs to leave for work the next day. At Bamboo I'd pick up a lady at 9pm. Pay Bamboo 1000. The lady would stay with me until about 10am the next day and I'd tip her 4000. If you're on a budget I believe the MPs inhouse are excellent value because you don't have lady drinks, bar fines and short time hotel rooms.

Another option guys on ISG don't write about much is using dating websites and social media to find ladies. On these you can hook up with pros, semipros and civilians who understand what is expected of them. You can cultivate an online relationship. Arrange to meet for coffee at Terminal 21. Pay for her beverage and say good bye if you don't like her. If you want to be a real gentleman give her some money for a taxi home. But if you have a little bit of luck you may be able to hook up with a good looking lady and companion. I think this is a really good option for guys under forty. Of course old farts like me can hook up with forty plus ladies, but I go to Bangkok to fuck ladies one-third my age! :D

I recommend guys in town for the first time do their homework (ISG is one of many good sources of information, just do Google searches) and sample a little of everything. After a few visits you'll figure out what you prefer. There are a number of good mongering destinations around the world; and most cities of a decent size have at least some options; but for variety, quantity and value, I think Bangkok can't be beat.

[QUOTE=Phordphan; 1536881]Ahh, BKK. Like many Asian cities, it's "organized chaos." It's a fascinating place, where there is always something going on. The traffic, the crazy moto taxis, walking down the street with one eye on the ground for holes and obstacles, one eye up for forehead-height awning poles, a third eye on traffic approaching from behind, and a fourth eye for the random elephant. As the song says, it's truly "A show with everything but Yul Brynner."

Mmm, the heat and humidity! The smells of delicious food wafting from every street corner. The smiles from the vendors, the "Hello hansum man" from the door girls, the high-buck restaurants cheek by jowl with sidewalk noodle stands, the sense of the anticipation when venturing out at night to find a new girl. As George C. Scott said in Patton."God help me, I do love it so!"

The Europhiles can keep Europe with its wide boulevards and spotless streets. To quote Kipling,"If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you'll never 'eed naught else." You've either heard the East calling, or you haven't. There's no shame in not hearing it. To each his own and no judgment from this corner of farangdom.[/QUOTE]That's a good description. There are so many things that are different here, some of a very nuance nature: Here's a short list.

1. You walk into the Beergarden and nearly every girl in there is eyeballing you. (you really just need a pulse) Then now and then through the corner of your eye you see a hottie (and they are in there sometimes) moving up a dozen seats to sit next to you. Not going to happen in London and not going to happen in New York.

2. The constant flirtiness of shop girls, some are among the cutest girls you will ever encounter, (no it doesn't mean anything as they are not pros) and I think its an Asian thing really, but its not bad.

3. Lets say you're 10 to 15 miles outside the city for whatever reason, perhaps you are at a Mall, and sometimes it seems like your the only Farang in the entire place. Yes, you do get attention and its pretty good sometimes.

4. You perhaps have a problem on the subway or wherever, getting the right stop or something and while you don't ask for help and can figure it out and what happens? Often pretty girls start helping you. No particular meaning, and some of these girls are very young, but they seem to get some kind of satisfaction that they successfully practiced their English skills and helped you. Sometimes these girls give you looks like you will never see in the west. Their eyes literally glisten. Its just not going to happen many other places.

5. Late late night in Go Go's just checking the talent, and hot girl walks up "you take me?" (No but its nice to be asked)

[QUOTE=ConquerorVal;1536829]This makes a lot of sense![/QUOTE]That's the simple version, but the biggest fans of Bangkok also seem to be more interested in treating P4P girls as (in a recreational sense at least but not in a naive way) as lovers instead of hookers. Its really the glass half full vs glass half empty debate in different form and it can color one's perception of the entire Bangkok experience. Those that take the cynical view I believe are going to be more cynical toward Bangkok itself. "Everything is about money, bang em, end of story, bring me the next ****."

[QUOTE=Newton York; 1536305]Okay fellas, here's my report about my trip to Bangkok. I'm usually at the prague section of this forum, I do stop by here to check things out once in a while, get some info and all that, and this being a forum I'm going to be blunt and I'm not going to hold back, I think some of you bigger fans of Bangkok will want to destroy me after this, but I'll be fair in my review. I mean no place is perfect, and while Bangkok was ok, I found its reputation as the mongering capital of the world to be somewhat exaggerated. I will post the financial info in Dollars, somehow that makes it seem more cost effective. Because when I think of how much it costs to monger here or in europe, whatever I experienced in Bangkok, some good, and some bad, when it comes to the bad, considering how cheap it all was, it was okay then.

I got to say though, I did all I could to get a booking with goldie's, so much has been said about how great they are, but they just wouldn't fit me in their schedule. Also, while I did manage to speak to the dude on the phone, I suspect that something I said may have put me on their shit list. I don't know why I assumed paul kaush was the owners husband, I remember reading somewhere here the name of goldie's husband and I just assumed it was him because paul kausch speaks a lot about goldies. The dude on the other line said something about the international sex guide, and mere hours later I get an email from them telling me they won't be able to accommodate me..[/QUOTE]1. Using agencies is NOT the way to go.

2. I'm pretty you paid more than a Jap for your Rainbow 4 disaster. 7,000 baht for 4-5 hours?

3. Just based on looks of your girls- you definately overpaid.

4. I don't do long time. Rainbow 1 has a card with prices- 4,500 is long time. You pay way more than Japs pay.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch; 1536912]DR Ronin, I like your post. It reflects ISG at it's best. Guys sharing knowledge, experiences and opinions. I'm going to offer some different opinions, which is not to say mine are right and yours are wrong. They're just different.

First, I think Bangkok is mostly hit and very little miss. Like you I've never had problems with taxis drivers, nor with waitresses, hotel employees, sales clerks and other civilian workers. I just remember where I am and how I should act if I want social interactions to go well. For me, that is part of the fun. I think the hotel accommodations are great value and the food is cheap and very good. My preferences with the ladies is where our opinions differ.

I recommend guys in town for the first time do their homework (ISG is one of many good sources of information, just do Google searches) and sample a little of everything. After a few visits you'll figure out what you prefer. There are a number of good mongering destinations around the world; and most cities of a decent size have at least some options; but for variety, quantity and value, I think Bangkok can't be beat.[/QUOTE]It is true that I should always preface any statement I make with a "For me" because we all like different things and in fact those things can change over time. When I was younger I was much more a point and click guy, she looks good, so let's go with a minimum of small talk and then on to the next one; especially on 2 week vacations. But as I have gotten older and moved here my M. O. Has changed considerably. The idea of going to a Goldfish Bowl and picking out a girl or choosing a girl from a photo on an escort service (even if you could find positive reviews on her) is just not where I am anymore. Message parlors to me are mechanical, predictable and industrial sex. I like spontaneity and not knowing what is going to happen. Sometimes that will work in your favor, often it will not.

I had a little experience in London doing escort services and they were all pretty good even if every one of the Chinese, Japanese, Korean and Singaporean girls turned out to be Thai's'! And in truth with prices going up here for go-go girls and freelancers, the escorts are not all that more expensive if you keep it to the 2-hour limit. But still I have heard so many stories that were negative from the wrong girl showing up, the photo being altered to take years and pounds off and add inches to her bosom to the girl giving crappy service and not even coming close to be willing to do all the services they claim to on the website. No doubt some escort agencies are better than others.

But now I like to know the girl before I do much. Maybe it's an age thing or maybe just jaded and wary. Even with go-go girls I will often buy them drinks a few times before I pay barfine, I have even taken them out to play pool or hit other bars and do nothing the first time. Time is something I have plenty of so I don't mind just hanging out and getting to know them. At least for me it has paid off royally because by the time we get around to sex there is a degree of friendship and intimacy that will rarely be there with a "you go short time" approach and the sex has been great that time and every time after. In a disco it is more hanging out with a girl you see for a few hours, drinking, dancing, talking before you even get around to business. A couple times I have been burnt by the girl asking for crazy money when we finally did but most of the time we never even talk money and again in most instances the sex has just been an extension from the good time we were having in the disco (and the girl being just a little bit drunk perhaps). But obviously people approach this differently and if it works for them great. It just didn't seem to work though for Newtown York so if he ever does come back he may need to go about things differently.

[QUOTE=George300; 1536448]I'll be arriving in BKK in 5days, this will be my 3rd trip to Thailand so I'm still kinda a newbie. Does anyone have advice with how to go about getting a girl for a few days, take her and yourself to a doctors get STD tested, if she's clean I want to bareback all vacation long. Thats truly my goal, I will never ever ever fuck one of these girls without them being tested (even tho here in the states, I've slipped up many a times with k-girls and some AMP girls, bareback but never caught anything). Are they receptive to this?[/QUOTE]It's a lucky dip, you can ask them to go away with you, they will not mind getting an STD test if you pay for it, and yes, many will bare back, and in most cases you will not catch anything. I have barebacked for the last 15 years or so, not caught anything that nasty in that time, a case of NSU once, and they are all happy to go. I once took a go go girl I had known since she started out at 16 to Club Med, but by then she was 23, and she beahved well and fitted in. If you want to take them away it will be easier if it is a resort style place, not a small hotel in the back blocks with a fan, but a real hotel with clean sheets and hot water and she will take good care of you. You will have to pay the bar fine for the days up front, and pay nothing else until the end of the trip, and then base it on days times a long time, and add a bit for a tip, after all you get 24 hours on call. The ones that will go more easily are mid 20's girls, they look good, still tight if no kids, and realise they are not getting as rich as they hoped, so might as well enjoy it.

So true. A friend of mine who lived here in the early 00s once said,"Guys don't come to Bangkok to f*ck working girls; guys come to Bangkok to date working girls." He was spot on. Truth be told I was a bit disappointed my first trip to BKK. I was expecting sexually experienced nasty fun gals who were up for anything, and found pretty simple village gals, who even though they had been with lots of dudes, had very under-developed skill sets, were not kinky, and definitely did not know how to get into a Western dude's head psycho-sexually. But the ease of living here, the great food, and the sheer numbers available won me over. I also find Thai women easy to have relationships with and very ok with compartmentalization. As one friend said,"They are no up in your sh*t all the time."

I don't know where to post this but does Baccara offer non-alcholic, non-caffeinated drinks on the menu? The video on Nana shows the Billboard A Go Go menu and it only has soft drinks, but not sure I can order a mango juice. I'm sure they have water though.

A few quick questions.

Is it true you only get one pop at the soapies? For 60-90, I would think you would at least get 2-3.

Can someone direct me to a detailed review of the BJ bars. How exactly do they work, and what is the best? I tried searching, but was overloaded.

Thanks

[QUOTE=TigerCountry;1537010]I don't know where to post this but does Baccara offer non-alcholic, non-caffeinated drinks on the menu? The video on Nana shows the Billboard A Go Go menu and it only has soft drinks, but not sure I can order a mango juice. I'm sure they have water though.[/QUOTE]All the bars serve water, soft drinks and juices. The later are also used in mixed drinks. Not sure about mango juice.

I'm sure number 15 at Rainbow is a nice girl. But OMG she is no means a stunner (a must see kind of girl).she does stand out though. Very thin, ass sticks out like a NEGRO African tribe woman-those you see on National Geographic specials. Big bolt ons-out of proportion to body size. Face is decent. Kind of reminds me of the last blow-up doll I bought.

[QUOTE=DRRonin;1536998]I had a little experience in London doing escort services and they were all pretty good even if every one of the Chinese, Japanese, Korean and Singaporean girls turned out to be Thai's'![/QUOTE]No kidding. Seems every Asia escort in the world is really from Thailand. ;) I think London escorts are the most expensive in the world. I forgot to mention, good escorts in Bangkok are a bargain.

[QUOTE=DRRonin;1536998]But now I like to know the girl before I do much.[/QUOTE]Yes, I understand this. Also, it's fun to hunt the gogo girls and FLs. It's also nice to know by the end of the evening you will have bagged your prey.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1537007]So true. A friend of mine who lived here in the early 00s once said,"Guys don't come to Bangkok to f*ck working girls; guys come to Bangkok to date working girls." He was spot on. Truth be told I was a bit disappointed my first trip to BKK. I was expecting sexually experienced nasty fun gals who were up for anything, and found pretty simple village gals, who even though they had been with lots of dudes, had very under-developed skill sets, were not kinky, and definitely did not know how to get into a Western dude's head psycho-sexually. But the ease of living here, the great food, and the sheer numbers available won me over. I also find Thai women easy to have relationships with and very ok with compartmentalization. As one friend said,"They are no up in your sh*t all the time."[/QUOTE]Well put. With one or, maybe, two exceptions, all of the Thai gals I've known were very enthusiastic in bed, enjoyed sex a lot, but were pretty much, as you said, village gals. Several younger ones had never had a guy go down on them before, and one had never experienced an orgasm during sex despite having been married for several years to a Thai guy. The Cambodian ladies seemed a bit more adventurous to me. It seems the Thai ladies are more adept at activating what I like to call the western guy's "White Knight" syndrome. That's where U-turn into Captain Saveaho and rescue the fair damsel from a horrid life of debauchery. We've all been there. The fortunate ones have resisted the temptation.

Concerning gals who are up for anything, I must add that an experienced Latina can really rock one's world.

You're right about the sheer numbers. In SEA a western guy can barely step off the curb without landing in pussy.

[QUOTE=DRRonin;1536998]had a little experience in London doing escort services and they were all pretty good even if every one of the Chinese, Japanese, Korean and Singaporean girls turned out to be Thai's'![/QUOTE]Lived in London before, but you won't find any real Japanese or Korean there. All the Asian ones are Thai. You can find Chinese in Soho, but only in MP's.

I had the luck to do a half Spanish half Swedish escort, but she's the only one who is not Eastern European or Thai. I posted the agency and her link on the London forum some time ago. Check it out, she's like she is in the pics. No photoshop even if looks like it.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1537152]All the bars serve water, soft drinks and juices. The later are also used in mixed drinks. Not sure about mango juice.[/QUOTE]Actually many Go Go's including Rainbow 4 (same with Baccarra) do not offer water. And while they offer certain soft drinks, they don't complicate it with de-caff versions. Now the regular (pool) bars on Soi 4 seem to all offer water probably because they open in the AM, and have happy hour prices all the time anyways

[QUOTE=DRRonin; 1536998]It is true that I should always preface any statement I make with a "For me" because we all like different things and in fact those things can change over time. When I was younger I was much more a point and click guy, she looks good, so let's go with a minimum of small talk and then on to the next one; especially on 2 week vacations. But as I have gotten older and moved here my M. O. Has changed considerably. The idea of going to a Goldfish Bowl and picking out a girl or choosing a girl from a photo on an escort service (even if you could find positive reviews on her) is just not where I am anymore. Message parlors to me are mechanical, predictable and industrial sex. I like spontaneity and not knowing what is going to happen. Sometimes that will work in your favor, often it will not.

I had a little experience in London doing escort services and they were all pretty good even if every one of the Chinese, Japanese, Korean and Singaporean girls turned out to be Thai's'! And in truth with prices going up here for go-go girls and freelancers, the escorts are not all that more expensive if you keep it to the 2-hour limit. But still I have heard so many stories that were negative from the wrong girl showing up, the photo being altered to take years and pounds off and add inches to her bosom to the girl giving crappy service and not even coming close to be willing to do all the services they claim to on the website. No doubt some escort agencies are better than others.

But now I like to know the girl before I do much. Maybe it's an age thing or maybe just jaded and wary. Even with go-go girls I will often buy them drinks a few times before I pay barfine, I have even taken them out to play pool or hit other bars and do nothing the first time. Time is something I have plenty of so I don't mind just hanging out and getting to know them. At least for me it has paid off royally because by the time we get around to sex there is a degree of friendship and intimacy that will rarely be there with a "you go short time" approach and the sex has been great that time and every time after. In a disco it is more hanging out with a girl you see for a few hours, drinking, dancing, talking before you even get around to business. A couple times I have been burnt by the girl asking for crazy money when we finally did but most of the time we never even talk money and again in most instances the sex has just been an extension from the good time we were having in the disco (and the girl being just a little bit drunk perhaps). But obviously people approach this differently and if it works for them great. It just didn't seem to work though for Newtown York so if he ever does come back he may need to go about things differently.[/QUOTE]Your post reflects the qualitatively different and often better experience of living in Bangkok (or in and out of Bangkok all the time) vs guys coming for perhaps 2 weeks once or twice year. IMHO from the vantage point of the working girl its the (real or not) prospect of potential steady business going forward that makes them change their rules a lot more vs the (typical or average at least) shortterm visitor.

[QUOTE=Western787;1537233]Actually many Go Go's including Rainbow 4 (and I believe same with Baccarra) do not offer water. And while they offer certain soft drinks, they don't complicate it with de-caff versions. Now the regular (pool) bars on Soi 4 seem to all offer water probably because they open in the AM, and have happy hour prices all the time anyways[/QUOTE]I"ve never had a problem ordering "naam soda" at a go-go. It may not be exactly what the OP had in mind, but it'll do.

[QUOTE=Western787;1537233]Actually many Go Go's including Rainbow 4 (same with Baccarra) do not offer water. And while they offer certain soft drinks, they don't complicate it with de-caff versions. Now the regular (pool) bars on Soi 4 seem to all offer water probably because they open in the AM, and have happy hour prices all the time anyways[/QUOTE]I always order soda water. Never asked for still water. Every gogo I've ever been in has had that; and that includes several of the Rainbows, Baccarra and many other venues. This only makes sense. Cola, orange juice, soda water, these are used in mixed drinks.

2 posts and both highly critical of someone elses judgement. Great contributions sir. Ever heard the term " waste of bandwidth ".

[QUOTE=TigerCountry;1537010]I don't know where to post this but does Baccara offer non-alcholic, non-caffeinated drinks on the menu? The video on Nana shows the Billboard A Go Go menu and it only has soft drinks, but not sure I can order a mango juice. I'm sure they have water though.[/QUOTE]I don't drink myself and visit Baccara regularly. Yes they do serve coke / pepsi etc and this time in Pattaya I even noticed mango juice on menu. But there was a little problem in Pattaya with my order of coke. It tasted a bit flat, smelled lightly. After 4th sip I decided to investigate the bill and it read Vodka. Never had any issues in Bangkok.

[QUOTE=FreebieFan;1537290]2 posts and both highly critical of someone elses judgement. Great contributions sir. Ever heard the term " waste of bandwidth ".[/QUOTE]I don't see any critical, let alone highly critical, posts in the last couple of pages. Which posts are you referring to?

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1537296]I don't see any critical, let alone highly critical, posts in the last couple of pages. Which posts are you referring to?[/QUOTE]By good member Hihi. Or maybe he should be byebye.

[QUOTE=FreebieFan;1537333]By good member Hihi. Or maybe he should be byebye.[/QUOTE]I thought they were attempts at comedy.

duplicate post

"I'm sure number 15 at Rainbow is a nice girl. But OMG she is no means a stunner (a must see kind of girl).she does stand out though. Very thin, ass sticks out like a NEGRO African tribe woman-those you see on National Geographic specials. Big bolt ons-out of proportion to body size. Face is decent. Kind of reminds me of the last blow-up doll I bought."

#15 certainly is a stunner and she looks drop dead beautiful in street clothes also. A definite head spinner even in a city loaded with beauties.

So which dancer would YOU define as a stunner at Rainbow 4 then? What #37 ? Is she the "superstar" you've alluded to many times in the past? And is she the one you barfined something like 19 times in a row last year?

[QUOTE=Streetwalker7; 1454195]Saturday night update. Rainbow 4 was graced with the presence of number 37 w / o a customer for 20 minutes. Actually she came back from a barfine but I got to say hello and feel a nipple. LOL. Other than that nothig, the hot girls still didn't show up.

Surprise of the night-Rainbow 2 was hopping, guys barfining and all. Good to see. Still the fuglies not getting much love.

Asked a girl short time price- she was emphatic. 2500! No if and or butts![/QUOTE]Ok, #37 IS your "superstar"

[QUOTE=Western787;1537403]Ok, #37 IS your "superstar"[/QUOTE]The market defines superstars, not an individual. I think old 37 who is now 4 is it. Look on topless side-she stands out!

I'm up to a lot higher than 19 times. Num. 15 is popular with farangs and you know what they like. They like them down and dirtty!

What I'm trying to do is define superstar. One who every now and then gets pulled off stage is no superstar. A star gets called off 8 out of 10 times while on stage.

pretty bar girls, hot waitresses, good tables, but watch out for Manchester United "fans" being dropped off at Morning Night Bar for their afternoon pool games.

[url]http://img.neoseeker.com/screenshots/TW92aWVzL0NvbWVkeQ==/eurotrip_image8.jpg[/url]

A few hours ago Suthep announced every protest site except Lumpini will be shut down and all the blocked roads will be cleared. He expressed a desire to return the roads to all his Bangkok brothers and sisters and apologized for the inconvenience. :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1537950]A few hours ago Suthep announced every protest site except Lumpini will be shut down and all the blocked roads will be cleared. He expressed a desire to return the roads to all his Bangkok brothers and sisters and apologized for the inconvenience. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]He's consolidating for pure security reasons. Lumpini Park is located strategically within 'friendly' territory, with less chance of red-shirt snipers having access to fire / launch grenades! This unfortunately might mean a turn for the worse.

duplicate post

[QUOTE=Traveler1234;1537997]He's consolidating for pure security reasons. Lumpini Park is located strategically within 'friendly' territory, with less chance of red-shirt snipers having access to fire / launch grenades! This unfortunately might mean a turn for the worse.[/QUOTE]Also the numbers of protesters are down. The military is now offering protection. He may have agreed on this arrangement with it. Why do you think it may mean a turn for the worse?

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1537277]I always order soda water. Never asked for still water. Every gogo I've ever been in has had that; and that includes several of the Rainbows, Baccarra and many other venues. This only makes sense. Cola, orange juice, soda water, these are used in mixed drinks.[/QUOTE]Agreed. I also drink Soda. Coke Light is available but not decaffeinated. Thai orange juice is very high in sugar, so I don't recommend it. Pineapple juice may be lower.

Interesting video most likely taken around 7:30 to 8 pm looking south bound on Soi 4 in front of Stumble Inn which happens to show a fair amount of Go Go Girls running errands and so forth before Nana Plaza clubs gets going. I actually see some Rainbow girls including (blonde stunner) #15 from Rainbow 4 who shows up at 4:46 in the black dress with peace sign logo.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cE-BmAvblbY[/url]

[QUOTE=Western787; 1538229]Interesting video most likely taken around 7:30 to 8 pm looking south bound on Soi 4 in front of Stumble Inn which happens to show a fair amount of Go Go Girls running errands and so forth before Nana Plaza clubs gets going. I actually see some Rainbow girls including (blonde stunner) #15 from Rainbow 4 who shows up at 4:46 in the black dress with peace sign logo.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cE-BmAvblbY[/url][/QUOTE]I'm thinking this fella has some of business relationship with this girl. Maybe bought her somekind of shop and is promoting girl to make more money so he can recoup bahts.

If you want to promote girl give positive attributes. Pricing would help, discounts for multiples sessions? Does she take it up the ass? Bareback? GFE? Porn star? Cum in eyes? 2 Man one girl?

I know what #15 looks like and no way would I be able to point her out at 4. 46 wo his identification.

Just run of the mill avg girl with Unsightly boob job.

I saw myself at 3.00-4.00 mark. LOL.

[url]http://youtu.be/HyaEY8lFidc[/url]

Enjoy!

[blue]====================
VIDEO TITLE: "Pattaya hey sexy maaaan"
DESCRIPTION: Clips of fully dressed Thai chicks on the street and dancing in clubs
DURATION: 8 Minutes
====================[/blue]

[b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]: [/b] [blue]This report was edited by Admin to add a description of the content to be found at the [u]unannotated link to another website[/u].

Please do not post links to other websites without some explanation as to what may be found at the linked webpage. In other words, if you want to post a link to another website, please include some commentary describing what the link is to.

Why is this important? Because SPAMMERS like to post links with comments like "this is a cool video" or "check out this hot video" to induce forum members to view their SPAM websites.[/blue]

[QUOTE=Hiihii; 1538408]I'm thinking this fella has some of business relationship with this girl. Maybe bought her somekind of shop and is promoting girl to make more money so he can recoup bahts.

If you want to promote girl give positive attributes. Pricing would help, discounts for multiples sessions? Does she take it up the ass? Bareback? GFE? Porn star? Cum in eyes? 2 Man one girl?

I know what #15 looks like and no way would I be able to point her out at 4. 46 wo his identification.

Just run of the mill avg girl with Unsightly boob job.

I saw myself at 3. 00-4. 00 mark. LOL.[/QUOTE]No business relationship at all, not even a single barfine. Some dancers are very good stage performers, and #15 is one, and while I might give her a stage tip once in awhile, I have zero interest in barfining her. I don't like TATS, nor do I want a western look, nor do I seek out Go Go stunners per se, and IMHO she certainly meets the definition, but I do appreciate her very sexy stage moves.

These girls are among other things entertainers, and Rainbow 4 with their excellent music selections helps enhance these dancer peformances and the overall club vibe. Here's one of their catchy often played House tracks many may have heard in R4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq6gtFjZkq4

Good evening Gents,

I've read back a couple of pages, but I've not found anything specific enough.

Basically what I'm wondering is if the political situation has had a major impact on the normal nana and soi cowboy scene. Aside from possibly fewer tourists in the area, are the gogo bars still business as usual, or have some or the lot of them shut?

Thanks for the help

Stay safe and play safe.

Kkreeac

In this week's Stickman man column, he writes: "A handful of readers have asked why I shirk mentioning the Bangkok gogo bar most popular with expats in recent months. It's not Bacarra and nor is it Rainbow 4, still the two busiest chrome pole houses. This particular venue is easily the most popular with expats in the know with all sorts of stuff happening right in the bar. Some say it is the closest to how the bars were in the '90s. I won't mention the name of the venue in this column because of a problem with numbers. I will say no more."

Curious, uninformed minds wonder, what he is talking about?

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch; 1538664]In this week's Stickman man column, he writes: "A handful of readers have asked why I shirk mentioning the Bangkok gogo bar most popular with expats in recent months. It's not Bacarra and nor is it Rainbow 4, still the two busiest chrome pole houses. This particular venue is easily the most popular with expats in the know with all sorts of stuff happening right in the bar. Some say it is the closest to how the bars were in the '90s. I won't mention the name of the venue in this column because of a problem with numbers. I will say no more."

Curious, uninformed minds wonder, what he is talking about?[/QUOTE]Could be Crazy House. It tends to get very full although they could overflow to upstairs. Suzi Wong also gets very full at times.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1538229]Interesting video most likely taken around 7:30 to 8 pm looking south bound on Soi 4 in front of Stumble Inn which happens to show a fair amount of Go Go Girls running errands and so forth before Nana Plaza clubs gets going. I actually see some Rainbow girls including (blonde stunner) #15 from Rainbow 4 who shows up at 4:46 in the black dress with peace sign logo.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cE-BmAvblbY[/url][/QUOTE]Really I fail to see how this video is of any interest other than to show what Thai working girls look like in the street if you don't know. Glad I don't appear In a video like this. It shows the dangers that you could be filmed anywhere. I don't like "House" and the sort of "music" played at R4. Don't like siliconised girls much too. Guess I'm just trying to find what it was like 20 years ago. getting back to the sex, did you find any girl worth doing?

[QUOTE=Western787; 1538557]No business relationship at all, not even a single barfine. Some dancers are very good stage performers, and #15 is one, and while I might give her a stage tip once in awhile, I have zero interest in barfining her. I don't like TATS, nor do I want a western look, nor do I seek out Go Go stunners per se, and IMHO she certainly meets the definition, but I do appreciate her very sexy stage moves.

These girls are among other things entertainers, and Rainbow 4 with their excellent music selections helps enhance these dancer peformances and the overall club vibe. Here's one of their catchy often played House tracks many may have heard in R4

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq6gtFjZkq4[/url][/QUOTE]I don't get you.

1. I don't recall that tune being played often.

2. The girls on stage look very uninspiring. Theres a reason many refere to it as the BKK shuffle.

3. Is it possible you have R4 mixed up with another bar. Conceptually they all the same.

[QUOTE=Monomensch; 1538413][url]http://youtu.be/HyaEY8lFidc[/url]

Enjoy![/QUOTE]Should be in the Pattaya thread but, definitely a fun video. Love the song. I guess its from the Fallang Blues CD. Not once in the week I stayed in Pattaya did anybody say to me "hey sexy man". I guess I must be past my prime.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch; 1538664]In this week's Stickman man column, he writes: "A handful of readers have asked why I shirk mentioning the Bangkok gogo bar most popular with expats in recent months. It's not Bacarra and nor is it Rainbow 4, still the two busiest chrome pole houses. This particular venue is easily the most popular with expats in the know with all sorts of stuff happening right in the bar. Some say it is the closest to how the bars were in the '90s. I won't mention the name of the venue in this column because of a problem with numbers. I will say no more."

Curious, uninformed minds wonder, what he is talking about?[/QUOTE]He wanted to take No. 16, easily a 9, and be waived barfine in exchange to raving about the bar in his column. They offered No. 22, a 4 at the most. No deal on numbers and no naming!

Not unlikely I'd say.

[QUOTE=El Flaco; 1538746]He wanted to take No. 16, easily a 9, and be waived barfine in exchange to raving about the bar in his column. They offered No. 22, a 4 at the most. No deal on numbers and no naming!

Not unlikely I'd say.[/QUOTE]Sticks colums are a good read. His recommendations are Shit! I suspect he is paid to mention certain places. He even recommends places where there are no customers-I wonder why.

Really a disservice to clueless like mr Paul. Who apparently believs anything.

[QUOTE=Hiihii; 1538683]I don't get you.

1. I don't recall that tune being played often.

2. The girls on stage look very uninspiring. Theres a reason many refere to it as the BKK shuffle.

3. Is it possible you have R4 mixed up with another bar. Conceptually they all the same.[/QUOTE]Perhaps sometimes Harold, dancers find certain repeat customers particularly uninspiring, depressing, cynical, dour, boring, and cranky, so maybe their stage dances reflect that at times. I say cut them some slack.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1538678]Really I fail to see how this video is of any interest other than to show what Thai working girls look like in the street if you don't know. Glad I don't appear In a video like this. It shows the dangers that you could be filmed anywhere. I don't like "House" and the sort of "music" played at R4. Don't like siliconised girls much too. Guess I'm just trying to find what it was like 20 years ago. getting back to the sex, did you find any girl worth doing?[/QUOTE]You fail to see the relevance? Let me explain it to you: Harold a few days back claimed #15 at R4 is nowhere near being a stunner, but instead only reminded him of his blowup doll. Since many readers have no idea what this girl looks like one way or the other, when I happened to come across a video showing various Go Go girls walking on Soi 4 which also had a reasonably clear shot of #15, I posted it to let others judge.

Except for Mai #196, I've not found much in Rainbow 4 in terms of looks, vibrant personality, and English skills, but that said there are always many lovely girls in the club. Rainbow 4 is a great entertainment venue and I believe one of the best Go Go's in Bangkok, but on any given night there are 1000's of girls available elsewhere, most at more reasonable prices.

[QUOTE=Monomensch; 1538413][url]http://youtu.be/HyaEY8lFidc[/url]

Enjoy![/QUOTE]7:53 to 8:10. That is exactly why I don't DFK Thai women.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch; 1538664]In this week's Stickman man column, he writes: "A handful of readers have asked why I shirk mentioning the Bangkok gogo bar most popular with expats in recent months. It's not Bacarra and nor is it Rainbow 4, still the two busiest chrome pole houses. This particular venue is easily the most popular with expats in the know with all sorts of stuff happening right in the bar. Some say it is the closest to how the bars were in the '90s. I won't mention the name of the venue in this column because of a problem with numbers. I will say no more."

Curious, uninformed minds wonder, what he is talking about?[/QUOTE]Hard to tell, but I like his reports overall. And I see his escort story. Note some girls are supposedly making 200, 000 bahts per month and that's at a regular agency, with many over time permanently taken by customers outside the business. I see the word "engaged?" I guess these guys are marrying just a higher level bar girl?. Or probably more like mistress arrangements.

What's also amazing is there is a reference to ultra hot off-agency private escorts who per the story are only available to rich Thais (no Japs or Chinese either apparently) so I guess they are making even more money as the woman says these guys will pay anything for beauty.

Lot of these (legit) models in town must be doing some serious side work

It does make one wonder how for example Terminal 21 front desk girls (some drop dead beauties) can work at such low pay, but most probably have a rich Thai boyfriend providing a luxurious day to day lifestyle. While in the west easily its 99% of young women vs lets say 95% Bangkok that rule out P4P, obviously most young women consider getting paid to have sex with strangers totally repulsive and something they would never never consider. Particularly in Bangkok now with so many rich Thais available to make them into legit girlfriends.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1538795]Hard to tell, but I like his reports overall. And I see his escort story.

It does make one wonder how for example Terminal 21 front desk girls (some drop dead beauties) can work at such low pay, but most probably have a rich Thai boyfriend providing a luxurious day to day lifestyle. While in the west easily its 99% of young women vs lets say 95% Bangkok that rule out P4P, obviously most young women consider getting paid to have sex with strangers totally repulsive and something they would never never consider. Particularly in Bangkok now with so many rich Thais available to make them into legit girlfriends.[/QUOTE]I've been reading his weekly articles for a few years. Some ISG members seem to dislike him. I find some of his articles interesting and helpful. I am growing tired of his threats to leave the LOS, with yet another article about that yesterday. I wonder if he just whips out one of those when he hasn't bothered to put together a real article.

In my experience there is a big difference between the average gogo girl and a good escort. Of course I am comparing an average in one category to a good in the other. I restrict my comparison to good escorts because as I've posted several times in the past many escort agencies are really booking agencies for MP girls. Stickman made the same statement in his article. Compare the MP ladies to some of the escort agencies girls and some are one in the same, though the names may change. This is why I recommend using either a good escort agency or booking a good MP for overnight outcall directly through the MP.

I think it's common knowledge that some of the shop and office ladies moonlight for extra money. Guys who have the time to do some serious hunting and practice real pickup skills have successes looking for young ladies in the shops and malls. I've picked up ladies in nice hotel bars who have good jobs, speak English very well, along with one or two other languages and travel on business. A couple have said they worked in industries I knew well enough to ask questions only someone working in that industry would know. They checked out.

A number of years ago I got very lucky once. A prominent Thai businessman I knew hooked me up with a "date" for a dinner with several other Thai business men and their girlfriends. This same guy introduced me to the fancy Thai-centric soapy MPs. At any rate it turned out my date was a Thai soap opera actress. She had a minor but recurring part and did commercials: magazines, billboards and TV. She was beautiful. Spoke almost no English, but dinner conversation was segregated by gender. As for the sex, it was okay, but not spectacular. Definitely not PSE. I think she tried to make it GFE, but as many of you know it is not natural for Thai ladies to engage in a lot of heavy petting that makes extensive use of the mouth.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1538768]You fail to see the relevance? Let me explain it to you: Harold a few days back claimed #15 at R4 is nowhere near being a stunner, but instead only reminded him of his blowup doll. Since many readers have no idea what this girl looks like one way or the other, when I happened to come across a video showing various Go Go girls walking on Soi 4 which also had a reasonably clear shot of #15, I posted it to let others judge.

Except for Mai #196, I've not found much in Rainbow 4 in terms of looks, vibrant personality, and English skills, but that said there are always many lovely girls in the club. Rainbow 4 is a great entertainment venue and I believe one of the best Go Go's in Bangkok, but on any given night there are 1000's of girls available elsewhere, most at more reasonable prices.[/QUOTE]Make up your mind. Before it was stunners as far as the eye could see. Now you don't see much. There hasn't much to look at at R 4 for quite some time now.

The high season that never was is now gone. What a disappointment.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch; 1538811]I've been reading his weekly articles for a few years. Some ISG members seem to dislike him. I find some of his articles interesting and helpful. I am growing tired of his threats to leave the LOS, with yet another article about that yesterday. I wonder if he just whips out one of those when he hasn't bothered to put together a real article.

In my experience there is a big difference between the average gogo girl and a good escort. Of course I am comparing an average in one category to a good in the other. I restrict my comparison to good escorts because as I've posted several times in the past many escort agencies are really booking agencies for MP girls. Stickman made the same statement in his article. Compare the MP ladies to some of the escort agencies girls and some are one in the same, though the names may change. This is why I recommend using either a good escort agency or booking a good MP for overnight outcall directly through the MP.

I think it's common knowledge that some of the shop and office ladies moonlight for extra money. Guys who have the time to do some serious hunting and practice real pickup skills have successes looking for young ladies in the shops and malls. I've picked up ladies in nice hotel bars who have good jobs, speak English very well, along with one or two other languages and travel on business. A couple have said they worked in industries I knew well enough to ask questions only someone working in that industry would know. They checked out.

A number of years ago I got very lucky once. A prominent Thai businessman I knew hooked me up with a "date" for a dinner with several other Thai business men and their girlfriends. This same guy introduced me to the fancy Thai-centric soapy MPs. At any rate it turned out my date was a Thai soap opera actress. She had a minor but recurring part and did commercials: magazines, billboards and TV. She was beautiful. Spoke almost no English, but dinner conversation was segregated by gender. As for the sex, it was okay, but not spectacular. Definitely not PSE. I think she tried to make it GFE, but as many of you know it is not natural for Thai ladies to engage in a lot of heavy petting that makes extensive use of the mouth.[/QUOTE]My guess is that the pictures are honest. They makeup the girls, light them properly, and take real photos without then photoshopping it, as that's the only way to be honest about the process. However how with only 9 girls can they claim to be the most successful agency in Bangkok? I even had at least one girl out of Beergarden both younger and equally as hot as probably 6 of the 9 girls pictured, and with good English skills. So something here doesn't make any sense. Now that particular Beergarden girl was in the in the semi pro market which as I said it much easier to understand and benefit from when you are her either in Bangkok very frequently or all the time. Now in regard to the agency owner, what did make sense is she said Indians were a lot of her clients, and I can understand why that might happen. But them she tries to claim she doesn't know what the current client mix is? That's not credible at all.

Yes, I understand many escort services are merely massage parlor girls who sometimes go out, and that's the difference between real agencies vs not so good services. A lot of agency customer I believe are very time constricted, and that's why i guess they go that route in the first place.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1538811]I think she tried to make it GFE, but as many of you know it is not natural for Thai ladies to engage in a lot of heavy petting that makes extensive use of the mouth.[/QUOTE]In regard to kissing, and I verified this with a number of Thai girls, even in serious legit (real life) Thai boyfriend-girlfriend situations full mouth kissing either LFK (close to the traditional Hollywood style romantic mouth to mouth kissing) or DFK is not all that common. They kiss on the cheek and combine it with a sort smelling their loved one, same in Cambodia.

However there is an emerging trend toward full mouth kissing with younger people in Thailand willing to experiment with western practices. Kissing in fact is far safer than many realize, and of course by definition is BB. And many (50% in my experience) Thai P4P types will engage in it if you treat them with respect and are clean shaven. With some you can sense the newness to them, and many are at least low 8 level beauties who have kept their modesty given the sheer numbers of high 8's and 9's running around Bangkok, and this makes kissing them that much better as normally you are at least a few times complimenting them about their beauty (in a real sense as these girls are actually quite pretty in absolute terms). So kissing goes together very well with that. Of course when you kiss 9 plus level P4P gorgeous girls, its not bad either, but better in the less frequent cases where girls have not quite figured out how beautiful they really are.

[QUOTE=Western787][The "hello girls" outside Soi Cowboy bars are] a deliberate deception. [They] look like G club quality, the inference being they are between dance sets and thus ready to go back to the club and available to be barfined. In fact they are (barely legal if even that) young teens acting purely as touts. This is certainly relevant to a discussion of the merits of Soi Cowboy vs Nana. When you see hotties hanging outside Rainbow 4 in Nana Plaza, those girls *are* available. Many Soi Cowboy girls hanging outside are not even "Coyotes" which by definition are girls that DANCE but don't normally (with some exceptions) barfine.[/QUOTE]Perceptive commentary from Mr. 787.

I had read numerous online reports about the downfall of Soi Cowboy since my last visit in 2010, and in January I saw it for myself.

To my horror, I saw that it is now a destination for falang tourists who aren't even close to interested in the pay-to-play scene. I saw all manner of couples strolling up and down. I even saw single falang women.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

At least on Walking Street in Pattaya there are 'civilian' restaurants and bars. But Soi Cowboy is a tiny little block which has virtually nothing to recommend it unless you're a naughty boy. With everything else there is to see in Bangkok, why come there at night?

The tourists gawked at the punters and the girls like they were visiting a zoo.

The bars now cater to the Looky Loos by setting up outdoor seating. Why would you pay 180 baht for a beer to sit on the sidewalk and judge the guys scuttling by? I even saw civilians *inside* the clubs. Again, what's the fucking point?

'Oh look Nell, that woman has comically large breasts! '

'Indeed! And look at the poor dear sitting with that portly bald gentleman. He's old enough to be her father! '

For their part the naughty boys seemed to be staying away in droves. Granted it was the middle of the week and the political unrest had just started to break out. But when the legendary Baccara is empty that tells you the punters have voted with their feet.

With respect to the 'hello girls' any guy who's spent more than five minutes in any red light district anywhere on the planet will state with categorical assurance venues that offer value for money don't need hawkers or barkers. On the contrary, the wise punter steers clear of any joint employing them because once you're inside it's almost certain to be a clip joint. The emergence of these girls touting the bars they stand in front of is distressing, to say the least.

I made the rounds, drinking a single beer at several different places. There were a handful of decent girls at Baccara. If somebody put a gun to my head and forced me to go with a Soi Cowboy girl, I would have probably pulled from there. Tilac had enough girls on stage to get me to sit down and buy a beer, but after five minutes I realized the lineup was devoid of talent. Several of the girls were total cows.

My last stop was at a club I'd never heard of, I think it was the Cowboy 2. The lineup was lousy in there as well, but there was one girl who was absolutely stunning. She was supermodel tall and toned, with a gorgeous face that suggested her father might be falang. She was sitting with a younger chap who looked like a military guy. Good on you soldier.

All in all, Soi Cowboy V2014 struck me as a place *FAR* past its prime, a place squeezing out a little money from people who wouldn't have come near it back in its heyday, a place coasting on its naughty reputation even as those who appreciate naughty have abandoned it.

It reminded me a little of New Orleans in the late 80s and early 90s, a place pretending to be dangerous, but really just smelly and expensive.

I spent the rest of my time in town enjoying Nana Plaza and the scene on Soi 4.

Bunky

[QUOTE=Bunky;1538826]I had read numerous online reports about the downfall of Soi Cowboy since my last visit in 2010, and in January I saw it for myself.[/QUOTE]I was talking to an american, and this guy is low 30's, very good looking, and in an extremely high paid profession, so he had the bahts on him, and he told me when he approached one of the young lovelies in November outside one of the Soi Cowboy bars and inquired about the barfine, he was told by her it was 10, 000 bahts. I guess he wanted an 18 year old at that particular moment, but wisely rejected such a nonsensical fee.

LOL, I am guessing a more typical sex tourist might get a 20,000 baht barfine quote.

By the way some of these young girls that look like G club level quality from a distance, are many times just scrawny teens up close

[QUOTE=Western787; 1538820]However how with only 9 girls can they claim to be the most successful agency in Bangkok?

Yes, I understand many escort services are merely massage parlor girls who sometimes go out, and that's the difference between real agencies vs not so good services. A lot of agency customer I believe are very time constricted, and that's why I guess they go that route in the first place.[/QUOTE]I also thought that was a ridiculous statement. I think they are reliable and reputable, and the ladies are exclusive to them. I have referred a few ISG members to them. I got good feedback from these guys about the ladies. However, there are other agencies that are at least as good.

Over the years I've seen a lot of escorts in various countries. I used to travel a lot on business. I wanted a lady I knew I would be pleased with show up in my room for a few hours of fun and maybe as a dinner companion. Price wasn't an issue. Work and travel took up almost all my time, so when I had an evening or a Sunday to myself, I would want to take advantage of it. I didn't want to waste time. Good escorts are ideal for this. Some were regulars who I would see whenever I was in town. In a new city I might see an escort recommended to me, sometimes by an escort I knew in another city.

[QUOTE=Tiradentes;1538776]7:53 to 8:10. That is exactly why I don't DFK Thai women.[/QUOTE]Jeez, they're just grasshoppers. Never eaten chapulines?

[QUOTE=Western787;1538825]However there is an emerging trend toward full mouth kissing with younger people in Thailand willing to experiment with western practices.[/QUOTE]My date was a number of years ago. I'm under the impression Thai ladies who try DFK discover they enjoy it. Same with DATY.

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1538832]Jeez, they're just grasshoppers. Never eaten chapulines? :D[/QUOTE]LOL, if one is worried about what has previously been in a girls mouth or what she has actually disgested, and you think about each item or substance we might as well become a Monk as its not a pretty picture. Just think of Cinderella before you kiss them.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1538833]My date was a number of years ago. I'm under the impression Thai ladies who try DFK discover they enjoy it. Same with DATY.[/QUOTE]I think that is 100% correct. True story just recently,"nice girl" P4P type, among other thingsshe takes no shower and minus shoes jumps into bed in hotel with full street clothes on, under the covers, then later confirms she doesn't offer oral, but then after backrubbing me, I say "OK I massage YOU now, with my mouth" (as I point to my mouth then her pussy). All of a sudden her head is nodding like 3 times, in effect yes yes yes.

This girl does kiss, the one thing I asked for up front and her jumping in bed was accompanied by her lips being readied and was on her side awaiting me, not bad, and of course she does do FS. A very pretty and slender and feminine girl. One you'd probably never see in a P4P situation in the west, and her one flaw? Discolored teeth, and therefore needed teeth veneers or caps. In the USA it would be unheard of for a 23 old girl like this to not have her teeth fixed by that age. Its partly why Thai girls are the way they are, many have not been spoiled yet,

In the new Stickman escort agency article, the claims being made make absolutely no sense.

Now this agency apparently only handles about 9 girls, yet one would think it was the Pentagon War Room by saying "a bank of computers are against one wall, monitors displaying studio photos of pretty girls, some in their finery, some in, well, not much at all. Strewn over the table in front of us are mobile phones and seldom is there any quiet time when one isn't ringing. Some of the same pretty ladies in the glamour photos are sitting on a sofa beside me. One has a sultry look seemingly permanently etched on her face and whenever I look at her, her eyes glow. If we were in a bar, I'd say she was giving me the glad eye. But we're not in a bar. We're in the outskirts of Bangkok, in a huge studio condo of a few hundred square metres. There is sexual energy in the air. I'm sitting in the nerve centre of BangkokEscort. Com, an escort agency that has emerged as perhaps the leading agency of its type in Bangkok."

So phones ring constantly all day for a small agency even though the owner admits business is 50% off, and this in arguably the world's biggest P4P market (itself lacking customers) and one offering hot P4P girls everywhere you look.

Perhaps there are a lot of desperate horny Indian guy who have banned from every other venue in Bangkok and Pattaya, so they are left to make 1000's of inbound calls a day focused on this one agency. I guess that is possible.

Then the owner proclaims "Cherry" as the most popular girl. That doesn't make sense either. Ok I am sure she is a nice person but anyone with 1500 bahts could do better tonight in Nana Parking Lot.

[quote=paul kausch;1538833]my date was a number of years ago. i'm under the impression thai ladies who try dfk discover they enjoy it. same with daty.[/quote]my experience with a not insubstantial number of thai ladies, ranging from late teens to early 40s, is that very few of them are good kissers. it truly doesn't seem to be part of the culture for all but perhaps the youngest. now most of them tended to like it, but obviously had little practical experience. my current gf (only one previous farang bf and one jap or korean, i don't remember which) does like it, but it's a rather sloppy affair, overall. i only ever met one lady who not only enjoyed it but was very skillful. she worked a small bar in cm, cute but not the best looker and, unfortunately, was most likely ****. :(

if these girls were learning from farang, it's obvious that you guys are terrible kissers, too! :d

the daty thing is absolutely true. those from strong buddhist backgrounds have little experience in it. thai guys won't do it (don't know about the younger generation). i had one lady once refuse, then relent somewhat, telling me how much it was against her buddhist upbringing. but most seem to really dig it once they experience it a couple of times.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1538882]In the new Stickman escort agency article, the claims being made make absolutely no sense.

Now this agency apparently only handles about 9 girls, yet one would think it was the Pentagon War Room by saying "a bank of computers are against one wall, monitors displaying studio photos of pretty girls, some in their finery, some in, well, not much at all. Strewn over the table in front of us are mobile phones and seldom is there any quiet time when one isn't ringing. Some of the same pretty ladies in the glamour photos are sitting on a sofa beside me. One has a sultry look seemingly permanently etched on her face and whenever I look at her, her eyes glow. If we were in a bar, I'd say she was giving me the glad eye. But we're not in a bar. We're in the outskirts of Bangkok...[/QUOTE]They are advertisers on his his website, so no doubt he uses a bit of poetic licence when writing about them. And Cherry I thought, looked very average.

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1538921]My experience with a not insubstantial number of Thai ladies, ranging from late teens to early 40s, is that very few of them are good kissers.[/QUOTE]Pim, one of Bangkok Gold's escorts, whom I've seen several times, is one of the best kissers I've ever had the pleasure of locking lips and entwining tongues with. She is a rare exception.

Yesterday morning, while walking the 100 m from my hotel to Sukhumvit with my GF of the previous night. 3 different thai louts followed us and called 'things' after my GF.

Even though I did not understand a single word, just by the sound of it, it definitely did not sound nice, as the unhappy look on my GF's face confirmed.
At first, she didn't want to tell what the men had been calling, but finally admitted that they had been calling her names, of which "Falang Holiday Wh*o*re" was the nicest.

With the Sukhumvit area practically 'living' off sex services provided to tourists and from what I thought to know about Thai women's attitude towards sex c.q. prostitution, I am surprised at such open animosity towards one of their own.

I would be interested to hear from other members (preferably only those, who know what they are talking about) , of similar experiences and of the Thai society's attitude towards Thai-falang p4p relationsships in general.

I have been to Bangkok several times in last 10 years and have been always staying at the Sukhumvit area, and never had such an experience or have never heard about any such incidences at any time, It seems there was some silly single guy just annoyed and was following you and did such a rude thing, anyway I would like to know what time did this happen was it very late at night or so.

Hi guys,

Now that my time in BKK is up, I would like to recommend one of my this year's nicest fucks.

She has sweetened several nights for me and made it seem as if she was having just a much fun as I was.
Now since I am a "Romeo, long past exiration date", that is not something many ladies succeed in, even in LOS.
She is 27 and definitely not a spinner. Her fantastic tits overflow her D-size bra and she should loose 5-10 kg.
But just wait until you are holding onto her bum in doggy, with ALL options "up-to-you".
Not recommended for you mongers with a weak heart!

Aside from pure sex, she speaks reasonable English and above all she is fun to be with and just NICE.

She works at an MP on Suk soi 1, about 100m from Suk on the left hand (i.e. West) side. The MP is called ONS (I think) , but their number in in the pic. But unless you want to 'try before you buy' at the shop (strictly no FS there) , you'll want to call her directly.

She has given me permission to publish her number and the attached pic. The other juicy pics I keep for myself, as a matter of principle.

Her name is Rose.
Her number is 08 3015 5923.

Have fun and be nice to her.

DS

[QUOTE=Daddy San; 1539344]Yesterday morning, while walking the 100 m from my hotel to Sukhumvit with my GF of the previous night. 3 different thai louts followed us and called 'things' after my GF.

Even though I did not understand a single word, just by the sound of it, it definitely did not sound nice, as the unhappy look on my GF's face confirmed.

At first, she didn't want to tell what the men had been calling, but finally admitted that they had been calling her names, of which "Falang Holiday Wh*o*re" was the nicest.

With the Sukhumvit area practically 'living' off sex services provided to tourists and from what I thought to know about Thai women's attitude towards sex see. Q. Prostitution, I am surprised at such open animosity towards one of their own.

I would be interested to hear from other members (preferably only those, who know what they are talking about) , of similar experiences and of the Thai society's attitude towards Thai-falang p4p relationsships in general.[/QUOTE]I'm guessing what you "know about Thai women's attitude towards sex and prostitution" is all wrong. Do you know any Thai women outside of P4P? If you do, then all you have to do is ask them their take. Their attitude towards hookers is the same as everyone else's in the world. That is that they are lazy low-lives who are looking for the easy way out; not the way P4P guys want to see them as the poor little girl who has to get money for her family.

I have entertained many non-P4P women in the Suk area with nary a problem. What you have to realize is that although everyone looks the same to you, the locals know a hooker from a normal woman. There was a guy in the Rio de Janeiro thread recently who talked about how he had taken a good looking hooker to a nice restaurant and everyone so was jealous because they kept looking. I'm like dude, they were not looking because they were jealous or because she was good-looking; they were looking because they knew she was a hooker. But you were so blinded with hearts in your eyes that you did not realize that. We come on sites like this and all people talk about is paying chicks for sex. After so much time, we take that as the norm and consider the rest of the world who aren't paying or getting paid for sex as the weird ones.

Did you pay this woman? Are you on holiday? If so, then the things they said about her were indeed true, no?

P.S. The guys who I know that do live here and entertain hookers in their home make sure they are not going in and out of their building wearing hooker garb. They do care what the neighbors think and the neighbors definitely won't be thinking, "What a nice girl." The other morning I was riding down the street with a non-P4P girl of mine when she spotted a girl with her party clothes on. She pointed and started laughing and said I wonder where she is coming from.

[QUOTE=Mr Enternational;1539419]P.S. The guys who I know that do live here and entertain hookers in their home make sure they are not going in and out of their building wearing hooker garb. They do care what the neighbors think and the neighbors definitely won't be thinking, "What a nice girl."[/QUOTE]This reminds me of my second trip to Samui where I had a bar girl (the farang owner being my close friend) for two-three days (mostly for the nights). One evening we were invited by a bar (farang) customer to have a BBQ in his villa, with his wife and kids. All the bar staff (the girls. 3-4) was invited too. The bar staff was bar waitresses but available for take away with the usual terms and conditions (Bar fine and girl fee) even if it was not encouraged. I was at the BBQ and flirting with "my" girl and seen some smiles here and there (ie "here's the romance coming up"). Lsson learnt, she was still th bar girl, not the girlfriend!

Another time we were invited for another BBQ at the same place, but this time only me and my friend. I was thinking to take along a girl and my friend said "not recommended to take a bar girl at friend's house".

Mind you the girls were known to the house owner, they were not "hooker" type.

But still. There are unrwitten rules (or maybe just common sense if one thinks about it!)

[QUOTE=Mr Enternational; 1539419]I'm guessing what you "know about Thai women's attitude towards sex and prostitution" is all wrong. Do you know any Thai women outside of P4P? If you do, then all you have to do is ask them their take. Their attitude towards hookers is the same as everyone else's in the world. That is that they are lazy low-lives who are looking for the easy way out; not the way P4P guys want to see them as the poor little girl who has to get money for her family.

I have entertained many non-P4P women in the Suk area with nary a problem. What you have to realize is that although everyone looks the same to you, the locals know a hooker from a normal woman. There was a guy in the Rio de Janeiro thread recently who talked about how he had taken a good looking hooker to a nice restaurant and everyone so was jealous because they kept looking. I'm like dude, they were not looking because they were jealous or because she was good-looking; they were looking because they knew she was a hooker. But you were so blinded with hearts in your eyes that you did not realize that. We come on sites like this and all people talk about is paying chicks for sex. After so much time, we take that as the norm and consider the rest of the world who aren't paying or getting paid for sex as the weird ones.

Did you pay this woman? Are you on holiday? If so, then the things they said about her were indeed true, no?

P. S. The guys who I know that do live here and entertain hookers in their home make sure they are not going in and out of their building wearing hooker garb. They do care what the neighbors think and the neighbors definitely won't be thinking,"What a nice girl." The other morning I was riding down the street with a non-P4P girl of mine when she spotted a girl with her party clothes on. She pointed and started laughing and said I wonder where she is coming from.[/QUOTE]Absolutely spot on. This one needs to go into Reports of Distinction. Everything you say is true. The vast majority of working girls stick out like a sore thumb. Dress, hair, makeup, the way they handle themselves, the way they talk, etc. After well in excess of a decade here I can spot a P4P girl as fast as a Thai can.

Your first paragraph sums, it up. It is the easy way out. Don't get me wrong, I love having a romp with P4P gals, but date one, marry one? An emphatic no. Choosing that job, and yes it is a choice, says a lot about their character. Of course there are exceptions, but who has the time to sort through the 95% that are lazy and simply interested in an ATM.

I am amazed at how dude's throw out every standard they every had about a partner when they come to Thailand. Would you date a girl with a 6th grade education, a parasitic family, who sold sex back in your home country? Then why do it here? There are plenty of regular gals here to date.

Thai guys get it. P4P girls are for P4P, you don't marry them. Maybe if one is excellent she becomes your mia noi, but marry one? Nope.

[QUOTE=Daddy San; 1539344].

I would be interested to hear from other members (preferably only those, who know what they are talking about) , of similar experiences and of the Thai society's attitude towards Thai-falang p4p relationsships in general.[/QUOTE]Maybe they were drunk, maybe they didn't like your look, maybe they didn't like her look but no one here will be able to tell you about the louts since we weren't there. But you've been coming to Thailand for years and have a Thai GF and you don't know how Thai society view Thai-Falang P4P relationship? Well, they're not proud of or approve of it but tolerate it especially when it puts money in their individual pockets.

Have an sit down with your GF, she can tell you what you need to know which would be much better than all the different answers you'll get here. There are many forums that covers this topic and they all have varying views about this, the same as you would get anywhere.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1539455]I am amazed at how dude's throw out every standard they every had about a partner when they come to Thailand. Would you date a girl with a 6th grade education, a parasitic family, who sold sex back in your home country? Then why do it here? .[/QUOTE]I'm amazed that you believe many of these guys actually have standards that extend beyond an actual girl smiling at them and feigning interest for brief stretches.

If they get no notice or have no success with women in their home country then women of a similar standard in any other country will probably show the same lack of interest. So whats left but to keep moving down the food chain till something nibbles at their hook.

Nothing wrong with having friends in 'low places' as the song goes as long as one actually has the ability to see things in perspective. Unless of course they do and don't care. But then they would'nt be here asking silly questions, would they.

[QUOTE=Mr Enternational; 1539419]I'm guessing what you "know about Thai women's attitude towards sex and prostitution" is all wrong. Do you know any Thai women outside of P4P? If you do, then all you have to do is ask them their take. Their attitude towards hookers is the same as everyone else's in the world. That is that they are lazy low-lives who are looking for the easy way out; not the way P4P guys want to see them as the poor little girl who has to get money for her family.[/QUOTE]Mr Enternational,

I disagree.

I worked with both hookers and "women outside of P4P" for about 10 years. Bar girls on one side, chefs, cooks, front desk staff, maids, service staff on the other side. No problem at all, they worked together very well, and there was no negative attitude towards hookers.

The reason (my POV) for that is that basically most of the "women outside of P4P" are still connected to P4P (or were connected to P4P before). P4P always WAS an option for them, or it IS an option in their lives right now (but hidden).

I found 2 groups of women that I could categorize as you described above, looking down to hookers as lazy low-lives who take the easy way out:

- arrogant HiSo women that have lost the connection to the basis because of certain (and mostly unexplainable) money inflow.
- ex Bar-girls who made it out of the scene (for some time) because they found a rich sugar daddy, boy friend, husband. Those bad-mouth strongly.

I consider 90 % of the Thai women to be potential P4P candidates. In one way or the other. P4P does not necessarily start in a bar. It happened many times to me that contact was made in an office, a dinner followed, and after all this "foreplay" ended in the bed certain "benefits" (payments, presents, support etc.) were expected.

And now - let the witch hunt begin.


Giotto

PS: Two reasons for my opinion:

- most of the Thai's are still living too close to the poverty line. Money that can be made will be made - and moral and ethical values do not count during the money making process

- The general socialization of the women here, with the Buddhism as general environment and the responsibility of taking care of the family, especially parents and younger brothers and sisters ... P4P is an accepted option to fulfill higher value responsibilities.

[QUOTE=Mr Enternational; 1539419]I'm guessing what you "know about Thai women's attitude towards sex and prostitution" is all wrong. Do you know any Thai women outside of P4P? If you do, then all you have to do is ask them their take. Their attitude towards hookers is the same as everyone else's in the world. That is that they are lazy low-lives who are looking for the easy way out; not the way P4P guys want to see them as the poor little girl who has to get money for her family.

I have entertained many non-P4P women in the Suk area with nary a problem. What you have to realize is that although everyone looks the same to you, the locals know a hooker from a normal woman. There was a guy in the Rio de Janeiro thread recently who talked about how he had taken a good looking hooker to a nice restaurant and everyone so was jealous because they kept looking. I'm like dude, they were not looking because they were jealous or because she was good-looking; they were looking because they knew she was a hooker. But you were so blinded with hearts in your eyes that you did not realize that. We come on sites like this and all people talk about is paying chicks for sex. After so much time, we take that as the norm and consider the rest of the world who aren't paying or getting paid for sex as the weird ones.

Did you pay this woman? Are you on holiday? If so, then the things they said about her were indeed true, no?

P. S. The guys who I know that do live here and entertain hookers in their home make sure they are not going in and out of their building wearing hooker garb. They do care what the neighbors think and the neighbors definitely won't be thinking,"What a nice girl." The other morning I was riding down the street with a non-P4P girl of mine when she spotted a girl with her party clothes on. She pointed and started laughing and said I wonder where she is coming from.[/QUOTE]I'm with Mr. Goat. This should be in the RoD section.

To the Original Poster: This echoes my experiences to a "T." All of my "regular" GFs have all had the exact same opinion of bar girls. Lazy in the extreme. Money hungry. Dirty. Basically low-lifes. And their opinion of most of the farang who hang out with them is equally low. Ever hear the term "farang kee nok?" It's not complimentary. Why a "rich" westerner would stoop to hang out with, and parade around town with, a dark, ugly girl from the dregs of society absolutely baffles the locals.

Case in point. My current GF knows I used to hang with bar girls, and she teases me mercilessly about it. A couple of years back I was joking about visiting Soi Cowboy and she decided she wanted to visit. So, we walked over as the hotel wasn't far. We walked in at the Asoke end and made our way to the other end. She just walked, never stopping. At the end, I turned around and walked back. Again, never stopping or looking around. Back at the Asoke end I heard the local cover band playing in Country Road, so I decided to stop for a listen. We got a table near the band and I ordered a beer. She usually has one of her own, but she just said she'd share mine. Odd. After the beer was finished she made like she wanted to leave, so we did. She made a beeline out of the place and onto Asoke. Then the penny dropped. It wasn't being around a bunch of weird farang, or a bunch of bar girls, that she objected to. The intolerable problem was that she figured that everybody who saw her there, with her farang, would assume that SHE was also a bar girl. This was more than she could stand. So, that's pretty much how "normal" folks view bar girls.

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1539497]Case in point. My current GF knows I used to hang with bar girls, and she teases me mercilessly about it. A couple of years back I was joking about visiting Soi Cowboy and she decided she wanted to visit. So, we walked over as the hotel wasn't far. We walked in at the Asoke end and made our way to the other end. She just walked, never stopping. At the end, I turned around and walked back. Again, never stopping or looking around. Back at the Asoke end I heard the local cover band playing in Country Road, so I decided to stop for a listen. We got a table near the band and I ordered a beer. She usually has one of her own, but she just said she'd share mine. Odd. After the beer was finished she made like she wanted to leave, so we did. She made a beeline out of the place and onto Asoke. Then the penny dropped. It wasn't being around a bunch of weird farang, or a bunch of bar girls, that she objected to. The intolerable problem was that she figured that everybody who saw her there, with her farang, would assume that SHE was also a bar girl. This was more than she could stand. So, that's pretty much how "normal" folks view bar girls.[/QUOTE]Oh yeah.

She did not know that before, that good girl, she had to go to Cowboy to find that out, right? Sadly I read a lot of shit here in the forum.

Now, those girls who consider hookers "low lifes" and "dirty" - they really appreciate you hanging around with them. This is why they pick you as boyfriend, isn't it? They also want to learn about this "low life dirty" world. So they go to Soi Cowboy with you.

Wow - there is a lot of logic in your post. It really makes me laugh!


Giotto.

PS: May be your girlfriend is also closer to the P4P scene than anybody of us would ever believe?

I was having lunch or breakfast at the buffet of Sheraton Sukhumvit with my Baccara LT girl. To me she looked very ordinary, plain clothes.

[QUOTE=Daddy San; 1539344]Yesterday morning, while walking the 100 m from my hotel to Sukhumvit with my GF of the previous night. 3 different thai louts followed us and called 'things' after my GF.

Even though I did not understand a single word, just by the sound of it, it definitely did not sound nice, as the unhappy look on my GF's face confirmed.

At first, she didn't want to tell what the men had been calling, but finally admitted that they had been calling her names, of which "Falang Holiday Wh*o*re" was the nicest.

With the Sukhumvit area practically 'living' off sex services provided to tourists and from what I thought to know about Thai women's attitude towards sex see. Q. Prostitution, I am surprised at such open animosity towards one of their own.

I would be interested to hear from other members (preferably only those, who know what they are talking about) , of similar experiences and of the Thai society's attitude towards Thai-falang p4p relationsships in general.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Giotto; 1539513]Oh yeah.

She did not know that before, that good girl, she had to go to Cowboy to find that out, right? Sadly I read a lot of shit here in the forum.

Now, those girls who consider hookers "low lifes" and "dirty". They really appreciate you hanging around with them. This is why they pick you as boyfriend, isn't it? They also want to learn about this "low life dirty" world. So they go to Soi Cowboy with you.

Wow. There is a lot of logic in your post. It really makes me laugh!

Giotto.

PS: May be your girlfriend is also closer to the P4P scene than anybody of us would EVER believe?[/QUOTE]What's so funny about his post G? Different people have different comfort levels. When I was living in Brazil I had a couple of girlfriends (one a lawyer and the other in media) who wanted to go to the hooker disco with me out of curiosity. One of them couldn't wait to get away from there while the other did not feel uncomfortable being there.

Before living in Pattaya I had a girlfriend in real estate who would not even go to my hotel with me after the first time because it made her feel uncomfortable thinking everyone was looking at her like she was a hooker. After that we could only do the deed back in her room. My school teacher girlfriend would never park her car at my building. She would always park at Big C and I would have to pick her up on my motorbike. She said it is not proper for a Thai lady, especially a teacher, to be going to a farang's room. She would never let me go to her house out in Sattahip.

Two weeks ago a wingman met a girl who is a university graduate and works at a real estate firm here in Pattaya. He hooked me up with her friend who owns a restaurant in Bang Na. Both of the girls are bisexual. We took them to X-Zone Agogo where the girls do down and dirty sex shows. The ladies were disgusted and could not wait to get out of there. Then we took them to Sexy Airline Agogo and they took to it like a fish to water. You should have seen them kissing girls, sucking on tits, and rubbing on pussies.

[QUOTE=Giotto; 1539513]Oh yeah.

She did not know that before, that good girl, she had to go to Cowboy to find that out, right? Sadly I read a lot of shit here in the forum.

Now, those girls who consider hookers "low lifes" and "dirty". They really appreciate you hanging around with them. This is why they pick you as boyfriend, isn't it? They also want to learn about this "low life dirty" world. So they go to Soi Cowboy with you.

Wow. There is a lot of logic in your post. It really makes me laugh!

Giotto.

PS: May be your girlfriend is also closer to the P4P scene than anybody of us would EVER believe?[/QUOTE]Yes.

It's the pecking order, nothing more nothing less

[QUOTE=Giotto;1539504]And now - let the witch hunt begin :) .[/QUOTE]So, I've observed another distinction. Girls who were raised in or around Bangkok (or a suburb) and girls who were raised in a northern region.

Bangkok or nearby suburban girls seem to speak the correct Thai and seem to have cleaner etiquette (or maybe can fake it) and northern girls speak a blend and or dialect and seem out of place.

[QUOTE=Giotto;1539513]PS: May be your girlfriend is also closer to the P4P scene than anybody of us would EVER believe?[/QUOTE]I would believe it. The P4P versus non P4P line is quite blurred despite many pretenders wanting or portraying it not to be that way. Unless you're with a woman 24-7 all her life, how do you know what she's doing or what she was doing before you met her? One key point though is how do you define P4P, because to some people only BGs and hardcore hookers are P4P. If a girl has a regular job but does a little hustle on the side she is not P4P to them.

Many women and men the world over all pretentious creatures always upselling themselves and pretending to be more than they are. There's a number of people here who continually go out of their way to vaunt about their version of their non P4P GF as if anyone here is supposed to be impressed with that. But no one should give a crap about what anyone else thinks about their dates, P4P or not, the only opinion you should value is your own.

A few women have successful careers that have taken them farther than most men will every go and have no need of a man to sustain their standard of living. For most women in most cultures marriage or its equivalent raises the woman's standard of living. Does this mean most women are prostitutes? Or does it simply mean generally men bring something into a relation, even one that lasts an hour, and expect something in return. Same for women. Should we admire a man with a trophy wife and denigrate a man with a girl friend for the night? Should we think less of a lady who provides good service at an MP versus a woman who is a good wife? Where do these attitudes come from?

[QUOTE=Run Mann; 1539566]I would believe it. The P4P versus non P4P line is quite blurred despite many pretenders wanting or portraying it not to be that way. Unless you're with a woman 24-7 all her life, how do you know what she's doing or what she was doing before you met her? One key point though is how do you define P4P, because to some people only BGs and hardcore hookers are P4P. If a girl has a regular job but does a little hustle on the side she is not P4P to them.

Many women and men the world over all pretentious creatures always upselling themselves and pretending to be more than they are. There's a number of people here who continually go out of their way to vaunt about their version of their non P4P GF as if anyone here is supposed to be impressed with that. But no one should give a crap about what anyone else thinks about their dates, P4P or not, the only opinion you should value is your own.[/QUOTE]IMHO for every full time hooker in Bangkok, there are at least 4 semi-pro part timers: some university students, office workers, or other categories. And unless there is a contextual clue such as them walking hand in hand with an older Farang, or hanging in Beergarden, Thermae, or to a lesser extent in Spasso's or similar venues, one cannot necessarily pick them out as working girls.

Aggressive and open verbal harassment of a working girl walking with her customer on Sukhumvit or other tourist areas is in fact very uncommon. Its outlier behavior. Nor are young Thai males to any large extent being denied sex because of sex tourists buying hookers, as most of the these girls have Thai boyfriends anyways. I would be very surprised if it dificult for the average young Thai to get laid, so need to be bitter and take it out on a working girl. Also we know Thais reserve the cream of the crop for themselves, so many of these Thais, if for example if they got a good job, have access to some amazingly hot women.

They were probably drunk and possibly (its not inconceivable at least) experiencing frustration and anger maybe because of the protest related economic hit they may be still experiencing, which even in the best case scenario could linger another 3 to 6 months with one high season already missed, so they see a hooker making easy money and end up acting like jerks.

[QUOTE=Mr Enternational; 1539419]Did you pay this woman? Are you on holiday? If so, then the things they said about her were indeed true, no?[/QUOTE]So the mere truth of the statement somehow mitigates its inflammatory nature?

So I guess if a ladyboy is walking down the Soi minding his own business, he could be harassed by someone making aggressive but true statements about what the Ladyboy technically likes to do to other men and receive from other men?

[QUOTE=Western787; 1539576]IMHO for every full time hooker in Bangkok, there are at least 4 semi-pro part timers: some university students, office workers, or other categories. And unless there is a contextual clue such as them walking hand in hand with an older Farang, or hanging in Beergarden, Thermae, or to a lesser extent in Spasso's or similar venues, one cannot necessarily pick them out as working girls.

Aggressive and open verbal harassment of a working girl walking with her customer on Sukhumvit or other tourist areas is in fact very uncommon. Its outlier behavior. Nor are young Thai males to any large extent being denied sex because of sex tourists buying hookers, as most of the these girls have Thai boyfriends anyways. I would be very surprised if it dificult for the average young Thai to get laid, so need to be bitter and take it out on a working girl. Also we know Thais reserve the cream of the crop for themselves, so many of these Thais, if for example if they got a good job, have access to some amazingly hot women.

They were probably drunk and perhaps experiencing frustration and anger maybe because of the protest related economic hit they may have experienced, which even in the best case scenario could linger another 3 to 6 months with one high season already missed, so they see a hooker making easy money, so they end up acting like jerks.[/QUOTE]To Western 787.

Maybe 12 yr ago during the asia economy crisis there are a lot of freelance back in 1998-2002, the beergarden, disco and Thermae are full of freelance, now days most of the girl hang out beergarden and nana plaza are average looking older WG, not sure how long have you been going to Thailand exchange rate back then is 48bht to 1 USD and going rate is 700bht for ST.

Fast Eddie 48

[QUOTE=Fast Eddie 48; 1539592]To Western 787.

Maybe 12 yr ago during the asia economy crisis there are a lot of freelance back in 1998-2002, the beergarden, disco and Thermae are full of freelance, now days most of the girl hang out beergarden and nana plaza are average looking older WG, not sure how long have you been going to Thailand exchange rate back then is 48bht to 1 USD and going rate is 700bht for ST.

Fast Eddie 48[/QUOTE]Look, no doubt from what I have heard it was pretty damn good in Bangkok a number of years ago, cheap prices, better attitudes and hotter girls on average, and I've seen some interesting analysis from Stickman last month and posters in here like Goatscrot and others. Bangkok is already close to 1st world or already there,, and Thailand is heading toward 1st world or 1. 5 world status, more jobs available, more options, and the internet has taken many out of bars and Go Go's and they and for example FL's can even have access to prospective customers in other countries. Looking at the macro trend IMHO cash heavy Chinese investors will make this eventually a very expensive city, just as China bid up commodity costs across the globe, but the political unrest has delayed this inevitable trend but only momentarily. So the point is - enjoy it while it lasts.

Now dealing with the current situation, yes. Most at Beergarden are older and average, but there are fair amount of exceptions. As for NPL the range is quite expansive in fact. The Go Go's while increasingly dependent upon agency girls, still offer many non coyote hot girls.

You might recall poster "RickRock" a year or two back saying prices have gotten so high and quality so low in Bangkok, that given costs of the the plane ride and hotels bills etc, its better for mongers to stay stateside. (he cited New York and west coast I believe) I guess for mongers staying shortterm in Bangkok or only here once or twice a year perhaps that could be true to some degree unless they really know the market, but for many others its not accurate. For example those living here or visiting very frequently which among other things allows one to find the nuances of the scene, including the semi pro or part-time market, and therefore there is no way an average middle age guy could duplicate that experience in for example New York, unless accompanied by very large amount of resources. No market is static and while Bangkok is is headed downhill in monger terms, its way better than many other places, and if one enjoys the infrastructure advantages and luxuries the city has to offer, its nearly perfeclty balanced between a world class city, having lots of hot P4P women, and yet still low cost in living terms.. For example even compared to Angeles City, a true 3rd world location, hotels are more expensive there, and same in Myamar in Burma, a true 3rd world hell hole.

[QUOTE=Bobokp;1539535]I was having lunch or breakfast at the buffet of Sheraton Sukhumvit with my Baccara LT girl. To me she looked very ordinary, plain clothes.[/QUOTE]LOL, I couldn't help but notice your (ONE) other post was from 7 years ago. And since I am interested in you finishing the story you began above, I hope its quicker than 7 years.

Now if THAT is the entire story, then my mistake.

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1539497]Then the penny dropped. It wasn't being around a bunch of weird farang, or a bunch of bar girls, that she objected to. The intolerable problem was that she figured that everybody who saw her there, with her farang, would assume that SHE was also a bar girl. This was more than she could stand.[/QUOTE]Yes, and she had good reason to feel that way. She's no different than any of them and she knows it.

[QUOTE=Run Mann; 1539566]I would believe it. The P4P versus non P4P line is quite blurred despite many pretenders wanting or portraying it not to be that way. Unless you're with a woman 24-7 all her life, how do you know what she's doing or what she was doing before you met her? One key point though is how do you define P4P, because to some people only BGs and hardcore hookers are P4P. If a girl has a regular job but does a little hustle on the side she is not P4P to them.

Many women and men the world over all pretentious creatures always upselling themselves and pretending to be more than they are. There's a number of people here who continually go out of their way to vaunt about their version of their non P4P GF as if anyone here is supposed to be impressed with that. But no one should give a crap about what anyone else thinks about their dates, P4P or not, the only opinion you should value is your own.[/QUOTE]One of my good friends once said,"All women are wh*res and all men are consumers." There is a certain truth to that, but I do think the times they are a changin'. In Thailand you see more and more gals who want to remain,"working woman." They have no desire for a boyfriend. They might go out and grab a dude for sex but have no interest in a long term relationship as they don't want to answer or be beholden to anyone. This is a major deviation from traditional male / female roles here and I think it will continue to change. Remember, many of the cultural taboos and mores about sex in Thailand do not have a basis in religious thought or texts so they are far easier broken and norms changed in comparison to the West."Regular" Thai women are out there having a lot of sex. A Durex study placed them as the second most promiscuous on the planet next to Ghananan women. Over 70% of Thai women surveyed admitted to having multiple partners.

Honestly I wish I was 28 instead of 48. It is a great time to be a single young dude in Thailand, and I am not talking about the P4P scene. So many of my younger friends would never P4P, but they are dating and mating with lots of very good looking educated women here and most will jump in the sack at the drop of a hat.

Actually if you live in Thailand you must care about what people think about your date, especially if you work here. You are judged by the company you keep. Like it or not, that is the way it works. Do whoever you want, date for fun, but long term, make sure it is someone who can "do" something for you.

Its just as easy to fall for someone with means as for someone without.

[QUOTE=Western787;1539576]IMHO for every full time hooker in Bangkok, there are at least 4 semi-pro part timers: some university students, office workers, or other categories. And unless there is a contextual clue such as them walking hand in hand with an older Farang, or hanging in Beergarden, Thermae, or to a lesser extent in Spasso's or similar venues, one cannot necessarily pick them out as working girls.[/QUOTE]Yes, and the key there is your first sentence. Those girls are discreet. They would never be seen walking hand in hand at Paragon with a fat old farang in shorts, flip flops, and a wife beater T-Shirt.

[QUOTE=Giotto; 1539513]Oh yeah.

She did not know that before, that good girl, she had to go to Cowboy to find that out, right? Sadly I read a lot of shit here in the forum.

Now, those girls who consider hookers "low lifes" and "dirty". They really appreciate you hanging around with them. This is why they pick you as boyfriend, isn't it? They also want to learn about this "low life dirty" world. So they go to Soi Cowboy with you.

Wow. There is a lot of logic in your post. It really makes me laugh!

Giotto.

PS: May be your girlfriend is also closer to the P4P scene than anybody of us would ever believe?[/QUOTE]Fuck you, Giotto. And the flea bitten horse you rode in on.

It may surprise you to know that few girls will go to hooker areas, despite all of them knowing about it. Some are curious but would certainly never go there alone, some aren't even curious. I personally know both kinds. So, yes, having a quick escorted tour makes sense for some. Perhaps it's schadenfreude, perhaps something else. All I know is what she told me afterwards.

As for hanging around me, who knows? I gave up the bar scene several years ago, mostly because I got tired of the low-lifes who populated the scene. Guys like you and your GFs, perhaps? Guys like the OP who parades around with a hooker on his arm and wonders why locals give him shit? I'm sure none of my faves would have anything to do with me if I still frequented the farang night-life areas. I do know her comments concerning bar girls are reflected by each and every "normal" Thai girl I know. If your experience is different, so be it.

PS. Methinks the gentleman doth protest too much. You've made a nice living catering to this segment of the population. Does having your (former) clientele classified as "dirty" and "low life" cut a bit close to the bone?

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1539623]Actually if you live in Thailand you must care about what people think about your date, especially if you work here. You are judged by the company you keep. Like it or not, that is the way it works. .[/QUOTE]I live here and don't give a baht about what they think, why should I? The don't pay my wages as I work for a foreign company so what are they going to do for me or not do for me? People will judge you regardless of who you are with, If a judgmental person looks down on me because of MY choice of who I want to date, I say Fuck them. It's a very sad life to live trying to live up to someone else's standards, especially someone you don't even know or someone who will never affect your life.

I remember the first time I came to Thailand, I did not know anyone here but an older lady who worked as a cashier in a bar but she was in the game as she did go with customers. I had forgotten my computer power plug at home and had to get a new one so she took me to Pantip and I got one. I got looks from just being with her but that didn't move me in the least. The computer plug was more important to me. She was not my GF, I was her customer but she was so valuable to me, not for sex as she was older and not my type but she was a very nice lady who provided a service to me. I suspect some Thais thought we were dating as we were together in the sky train and on the road but damn if I was going to let how they view me or how they view her affect me. No one will ever convince me that I should care about what someone else thinks about my date or who I choose to go out with and I am not, not advocating dates or relationship with hookers but let's face it some hi so or normal women are lower than many hookers. Many people sitting in the cheap seats passing judgment on BGs likely have lots more skeletons in their closet. Anyone who let the people in the peanut gallery affect your choice of who they go out with, well they need some self-esteem.

[QUOTE=Run Mann; 1539566]I would believe it. The P4P versus non P4P line is quite blurred despite many pretenders wanting or portraying it not to be that way. Unless you're with a woman 24-7 all her life, how do you know what she's doing or what she was doing before you met her? One key point though is how do you define P4P, because to some people only BGs and hardcore hookers are P4P. If a girl has a regular job but does a little hustle on the side she is not P4P to them.

Many women and men the world over all pretentious creatures always upselling themselves and pretending to be more than they are. There's a number of people here who continually go out of their way to vaunt about their version of their non P4P GF as if anyone here is supposed to be impressed with that. But no one should give a crap about what anyone else thinks about their dates, P4P or not, the only opinion you should value is your own.[/QUOTE]I think anybody with a brain (which may exclude several contributors here) would agree that P4P means exchanging sex for money. You could probably also include high-priced gifts as money. And that's fine. I have no problem with it. There is no point in self-delusion. One can be a prostitute without being a full-time prostitute.

But as far as I can tell, none of the "normal" girls I know have ever exchanged sex for money / gifts. They're not virgins by any means. But they don't hang out in bars nightly, they don't cruise pick-up joints on the weekends. They've never slept with a guy on the first date or had a one-night stand. They can number their boyfriends on one hand. And they all have high paying jobs and aren't looking for a sugar daddy. They wouldn't accept money if I offered it. Hell, on a relative scale a couple of them probably have more money than me. So, I submit that there is a very clear line between P4P and non-P4P. It's just some guys want to pretend the girl they give "gifts" to really isn't a hooker.

[QUOTE=Phordphan; 1539634]I think anybody with a brain (which may exclude several contributors here) would agree that P4P means exchanging sex for money. You could probably also include high-priced gifts as money. And that's fine. I have no problem with it. There is no point in self-delusion. One can be a prostitute without being a full-time prostitute.

But as far as I can tell, none of the "normal" girls I know have ever exchanged sex for money / gifts. They're not virgins by any means. But they don't hang out in bars nightly, they don't cruise pick-up joints on the weekends. They've never slept with a guy on the first date or had a one-night stand. They can number their boyfriends on one hand. And they all have high paying jobs and aren't looking for a sugar daddy. They wouldn't accept money if I offered it. Hell, on a relative scale a couple of them probably have more money than me. So, I submit that there is a very clear line between P4P and non-P4P. It's just some guys want to pretend the girl they give "gifts" to really isn't a hooker.[/QUOTE]We obviously disagree about where the line is but if you see the need to convince yourself or others then keep at it. Also everyone with a brain will not always agree with you, reasonable people can see the same thing differently, that cheap shot was unnecessary.

[QUOTE=Run Mann;1539638]We obviously disagree about where the line is but if you see the need to convince yourself or others then keep at it. Also everyone with a brain will not always agree with you, reasonable people can see the same thing differently, that cheap shot was unnecessary.[/QUOTE]The shot was not directed at you. Had it been I would have made that clear. My apologies if you took it that way.

I have no need to convince myself about the difference, or where the line is. The girls I give money to are P4P. The ones I don't, aren't.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1539625]Yes, and the key there is your first sentence. Those girls are discreet. They would never be seen walking hand in hand at Paragon with a fat old farang in shorts, flip flops, and a wife beater T-Shirt.[/QUOTE]LOL, skip the shorts, T shirts, and flip flops and be clean shaven and in reasonably good condition, and you earn some points with the local paid hotties, sometimes even a discreet hand hold from some of the "classier" ones. Plus all things equal even the flirty shop girls are generally nicer, a minor amusement but part of the charm of the city.

The all purpose cover-all-bases general look Farangs might want to attempt to emulate listed below. Of course blokes that literally look like that wouldn't ordinarily be in Bangkok working the P4P scene in the first place. But hey, one has to always try.

[url]http://m5.paperblog.com/i/57/571895/bonds-casual-attire-in-thunderball-L-6y3HD2.jpeg[/url]

[QUOTE=Western787; 1539645]LOL, skip the shorts, T shirts, and flip flops and be clean shaven and in reasonably good condition, and you earn some points with the local paid hotties, sometimes even a hand hold from some of the "classier" ones. Plus even the flirty shop girls are generally nicer.

The all purpose cover-all-bases general look Farangs might want to attempt to emulate listed below. Of course blokes that literally look like that wouldn't ordinarily be in Bangkok working the P4P scene in the first place. But hey, one has to always try.

[url]http://m5.paperblog.com/i/57/571895/bonds-casual-attire-in-thunderball-L-6y3HD2.jpeg[/url][/QUOTE]YouTube has a series of video that comprise a documentary about young Thai women looking for farang husbands. One of the segments contains a popular music video from a few years ago about a poor ugly ducking village girl who leaves the village and comes back years later as a beautiful and stylish young woman with a wealthy farang husband. She gives money to the local school and everyone views her with a mix of admiration and envy. The farang has a full head of gray hair and looks too old to be her father; but he is tall, slender, wears fashionable casual clothes and glasses in aviator frames.

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1539642]I have no need to convince myself about the difference, or where the line is. The girls I give money to are P4P. The ones I don't, aren't.[/QUOTE]Fair enough buy pray tell, what's in it for them?

[QUOTE=Hiihii; 1538683]I don't get you.

1. I don't recall that tune being played often.[/QUOTE]Try this (the vocal) version of the same track then: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yOa0_fv1lA[/url]

Its been played many times in Rainbow 4, sometimes even 2 or 3 times an evenings.

[QUOTE=Run Mann; 1539632]I live here and don't give a baht about what they think, why should I? The don't pay my wages as I work for a foreign company so what are they going to do for me or not do for me? People will judge you regardless of who you are with, If a judgmental person looks down on me because of MY choice of who I want to date, I say Fuck them. It's a very sad life to live trying to live up to someone else's standards, especially someone you don't even know or someone who will never affect your life.

I remember the first time I came to Thailand, I did not know anyone here but an older lady who worked as a cashier in a bar but she was in the game as she did go with customers. I had forgotten my computer power plug at home and had to get a new one so she took me to Pantip and I got one. I got looks from just being with her but that didn't move me in the least. The computer plug was more important to me. She was not my GF, I was her customer but she was so valuable to me, not for sex as she was older and not my type but she was a very nice lady who provided a service to me. I suspect some Thais thought we were dating as we were together in the sky train and on the road but damn if I was going to let how they view me or how they view her affect me. No one will ever convince me that I should care about what someone else thinks about my date or who I choose to go out with and I am not, not advocating dates or relationship with hookers but let's face it some hi so or normal women are lower than many hookers. Many people sitting in the cheap seats passing judgment on BGs likely have lots more skeletons in their closet. Anyone who let the people in the peanut gallery affect your choice of who they go out with, well they need some self-esteem.[/QUOTE]I have been a resident for close to 15 years. The longer I am here the more I realize that in order to thrive here you have to buy into certain aspects of the culture. Of course you can always choose not to, but if you are toting around a 6th grade educated gal from Cowboy, who can't speak proper Thai, does not know how to dress, and is slightly ill mannered, not only do you stick out like a sore thumb, but it will close many doors to you. Like it or not, in Asia we are judged differently than we are in the West. Does not matter whether it is right or wrong. It just is. You can deny and buck the Asian way as long as you like, but it is not going to change for us, and after a time trying to fight it gets, well, boring. Again it is just as easy to fall for and date someone with some education and graces as it is to date someone who has none.

I dated a bar girl for quite a time when I first arrived. Even though she was always polite when I brought her to certain functions, events, or dinners, there was always looks, scorn, and I was judged by the company I kept. Of course that is not at all what ended the relationship, but when it did end I decided that if I was going to have another Thai girlfriend then she would have to meet certain criteria. Taking physical attractiveness and compatibility as a given, not having worked as a bar girl was number one (I say bar girl as was well stated one can never know if a gal had sex for money at some point). Having a family that was financially secure and was not a parasite looking for a "host" farang was second. Being a Uni grad, Uni student, or running a biz was third. Forth, which is the only one I a really willing to give some leeway on is a gal "having a bit." House, condo, land, etc.

The criteria for dating are far different from the criteria for P4P. I find the two totally separate and in many ways almost polar opposites. In Asia having an amazing sex life with your chosen wife etc is not really as important as it is in the West. Both parties tend to knock around a bit. Don't ask, don't tell, and don't let it effect the relationship. I have no issues with that.

I will be spending one night near Hualumphong and am fed up with the bars in Nana etc, is there anywhere near the station where I may find some company for the night

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1539629]Fuck you, Giotto. And the flea bitten horse you rode in on.[/QUOTE]Damn, why did the man's horse have to be bitten by fleas?[QUOTE=Run Mann;1539632]I remember the first time I came to Thailand, I did not know anyone here but an older lady who worked as a cashier in a bar but she was in the game as she did go with customers. I had forgotten my computer power plug at home and had to get a new one so she took me to Pantip and I got one. I got looks from just being with her but that didn't move me in the least. The computer plug was more important to me. She was not my GF, I was her customer but she was so valuable to me, not for sex as she was older and not my type but she was a very nice lady who provided a service to me.[/QUOTE]Would you have done the same if said cashier happened to be a ladyboy?[QUOTE=Phordphan;1539642]I have no need to convince myself about the difference, or where the line is. The girls I give money to are P4P. The ones I don't, aren't.[/QUOTE]That shit is crystal clear. But you see from reading posts in many threads that many guys somehow feel obligated to give money and/or gifts to any woman whom they have had sex with. Maybe this is why the line appears blurred to some. They are blurring it their damn selves. I don't feel the need to pay a woman who is not a hooker. And you best believe I know the hookers from the non-hookers before it is time to get in bed with them.

I also don't understand why some guys want to add "semi-" in front of prostitute to make it seem like she is any less of a prostitute. Well she only does it on Tuesdays and Fridays so she is not a real hooker. MF I don't do carpentry on Saturdays and Sundays, but that does not make me a semi-carpenter. I also still don't get the thing where guys say well all women are hoars because you are paying for it in one way or another - I'm actually paying to go out and enjoy myself with someone I have an interest in, not for sex. So I guess I was the hoar when my girlfriend took me to Krabi and paid for everything and fucked me silly.

George Bernard Shaw: "Madam, would you sleep with me for a million pounds?"

Socialite: "My goodness. Well, I'd certainly have to think about it, but perhaps I would."

George Bernard Shaw: "Would you sleep with me for one pound?"

Socialite: "Certainly not! What kind of woman do you take me for?"

George Bernard Shaw: "THAT Madam we've already established. Now we are simply haggling about the price."

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1539704]I have been a resident for close to 15 years. The longer I am here the more I realize that in order to thrive here you have to buy into certain aspects of the culture. Of course you can always choose not to, but if you are toting around a 6th grade educated gal from Cowboy, who can't speak proper Thai, does not know how to dress, and is slightly ill mannered, not only do you stick out like a sore thumb, but it will close many doors to you.[/QUOTE]Now you're introducing ridiculous facts not in evidence. If you walk around with a girl who is not a hooker and acts and dress like this then you'll be judge the same way. Surely you know that not all SP are as you described. Walk around with a hi-so girl who is snobbish and disrespectful, you'll be judged too.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1539704]Does not matter whether it is right or wrong. It just is. You can deny and buck the Asian way as long as you like, but it is not going to change for us, and after a time trying to fight it gets, well, boring. Again it is just as easy to fall for and date someone with some education and graces as it is to date someone who has none.[/QUOTE]That is your choice, you can't force it on anyone else, we're not all the same as we all operate differently. But I still don't get what the culture is doing for you or not doing base on who you date. They will judge you regardless of who you are with, the conventional wisdom falang + Thai = P4P in some from or the other. You can deny is all you want and say times are changing but the point is they judge.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot; 1539704]I dated a bar girl for quite a time when I first arrived. Even though she was always polite when I brought her to certain functions, events, or dinners, there was always looks, scorn, andI was judged by the company I kept.[/QUOTE]This affected you how? I have been to many of these functions and all they do is pass judgment on everyone. The judge the couple who is in an interracial relationship or the one with younger or older spouse or the one with the foreign spouse, they judge everyone. I will tell you even though you've been here longer than me that I know of many expats who are not only in relationships with former SP, they are married to them and I've never seen them being concern with the people passing judgment. Their happiness is more important to them. The fact that other people are uncomfortable because of a life style choice one makes is a poor reason to change to gain their approval, especially judgmental people. But I will not criticize you for living your life the way you do, I just won't live mine the same way you do.

[QUOTE=Riverstar;1539717]I will be spending one night near Hualumphong and am fed up with the bars in Nana etc, is there anywhere near the station where I may find some company for the night[/QUOTE]The only action I'm aware of near Hualamphong is from cheap streetwalkers. Since Hualamphong is on the MRT line, it would probably be much easier to take the MRT to a better location and then bring your lady back to your hotel. Even if you don't like Nana, Soi Cowboy, etc. There are many more options nearby. For example, Sukhumwit Soi 22 has dozens of bars and massage shops with ladies who you could spend the night with.

that is the single best explanation as to why the situation has at least partly stabilized. Among other venues the soapy mega palaces north of the city were in jeopardy of going under, and the even the G clubs (though technically not *****houses) are in effect farm clubs generating new talent for rich Thais and Japanese businessmen to sponsor, and was no doubt being impacted. One high season gone, but with some luck at least a chance now to partly restore the economy in the next 6 to 9 months.

My friends and I are planning on a bachelor trip to Bangkok first week of April. Will it be a safe to go at that time? Or will there still be protests in full effects?

[QUOTE=Western787;1539765]George Bernard Shaw: "Madam, would you sleep with me for a million pounds?"[/QUOTE]I think this is a great story. By the way, in the "official" version the two offers were 5 million pounds and 5 quid; with quid used in the lower offer because it is slang, like a dollar versus a buck in American English. The story has also been attributed to Winston Churchill and Oscar Wilde. It was probably an old story that has been told for centuries by many gentlemen, some notable, some forgettable.

I'm going to make an outlandish statement and suggest a good sex worker should be held in higher regard than the common wife. First, the sex worker is more direct and honest. She offers a menu of pleasures. If you're interested, pay her the agreed rate and have your fun. There is no nagging or complaining; and afterwards you're free to go about your business as you please. A wife locks you into a lifetime relationship. She will nag, never stop demanding money, and the demands will always increase, even as she grows old and fat. When you want sex she's too tired or has a headache. Want a little a-level or even CIM, forget it, what do you thing she is? When you've had enough and try to escape the misery, she'll take you for everything you have, and then perhaps a bit more for good measure. In contrast a good sex worker brings nothing but pleasure to many men, perhaps many, many men. Take the famous Apple of Cherry Massage fame. How much pleasure did she give to how many men? Has anyone read or heard about a guy who left her disappointed.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1539840]I'm going to make an outlandish statement and suggest a good sex worker should be held in higher regard than the common wife. First, the sex worker is more direct and honest. She offers a menu of pleasures. If you're interested, pay her the agreed rate and have your fun. There is no nagging or complaining; and afterwards you're free to go about your business as you please. A wife locks you into a lifetime relationship. She will nag, never stop demanding money, and the demands will always increase, even as she grows old and fat. When you want sex she's too tired or has a headache. Want a little a-level or even CIM, forget it, what do you thing she is? When you've had enough and try to escape the misery, she'll take you for everything you have, and then perhaps a bit more for good measure. In contrast a good sex worker brings nothing but pleasure to many men, perhaps many, many men. Take the famous Apple of Cherry Massage fame. How much pleasure did she give to how many men? Has anyone read or heard about a guy who left her disappointed.[/QUOTE]PK, you compared a GOOD sex worker to a COMMON wife. Why not compare good with good or common with common? A good sex worker is hard to come by and takes many trials to find. With a limited time in Bangkok a guy has to dive in head first without pussyfooting around. He is subject to a big margin of fuck ups throughout his many trials.

A guy has all the time in the world to choose a wife so there is no reason to be in such a rush that he fucks up and chooses wrong. And if I was to choose a wife I wouldn't get a common one as you have described. She would have to be damn good for me. I'm not understanding how and why guys are choosing women who won't eat right and go to the gym, won't have sex with them when and how they want it, and demand money, and then later on complain about it. My relationship with my wife was nothing like that. We always kept our money separate and each paid the bills that each was responsible for. When we decided to break up we split everything that we had obtined together evenly. It sounds like some guys should make wiser decisions.

[QUOTE=Run Mann; 1539774]Now you're introducing ridiculous facts not in evidence. If you walk around with a girl who is not a hooker and acts and dress like this then you'll be judge the same way. Surely you know that not all SP are as you described. Walk around with a hi-so girl who is snobbish and disrespectful, you'll be judged too.

That is your choice, you can't force it on anyone else, we're not all the same as we all operate differently. But I still don't get what the culture is doing for you or not doing base on who you date. They will judge you regardless of who you are with, the conventional wisdom falang + Thai = P4P in some from or the other. You can deny is all you want and say times are changing but the point is they judge.

This affected you how? I have been to many of these functions and all they do is pass judgment on everyone. The judge the couple who is in an interracial relationship or the one with younger or older spouse or the one with the foreign spouse, they judge everyone. I will tell you even though you've been here longer than me that I know of many expats who are not only in relationships with former SP, they are married to them and I've never seen them being concern with the people passing judgment. Their happiness is more important to them. The fact that other people are uncomfortable because of a life style choice one makes is a poor reason to change to gain their approval, especially judgmental people. But I will not criticize you for living your life the way you do, I just won't live mine the same way you do.[/QUOTE]I have not really observed girls who are not hookers dressing like hookers.

I would say that even 5 years ago your second paragraph would be accurate, now not so much. The majority of farang + thai relationships now are not hooker and host. Those relationships are painfully obvious and always have been.

Most expats that I know view Thailand a simply a stopover. Very few will choose to remain her for the duration. Their Thai spouse will accompany them to Farang land where things are in fact different. When a person plans to be somewhere long term he / she better for the most part buy into the culture.

Asians are judgmental in a different way than we Westerners. Ask an Asian what makes a beautiful woman and 9 times out of 10 you will get the same answer. Their norms and mores are far more rigid and formed than ours. They also accept these tenants mainly without question. Everything is based on face. That is what allows people to be promiscuous. As long as you do not cause your partner to lose face, you have free rein to do as you please. Many of us take advantage of that.

Of course taking an obvious bar girl to a dinner party with your Thai business associates and their wives will cause you to lose face. The Thai dudes will wonder what is wrong with you and the women will just think you are nasty. Would you take a 6th grade educated West Virginia hillbilly with you to a wedding at the country club? Probably not. Would you even consider dating a woman like that back home? Probably not. The only difference between bar girls and their West Virginia sister is the gals here tend to be slim and have all their teeth. Methinks that is not a basis for a long term relationship. Eventually it will come back to bite you.

My point is simply this; we all make choices when it comes to relationships. Make a choice that helps you in more ways then just keeping jr happy.

[QUOTE=Mr Enternational;1539719]I also still don't get the thing where guys say well all women are hoars because you are paying for it in one way or another - I'm actually paying to go out and enjoy myself with someone I have an interest in, not for sex. So I guess I was the hoar when my girlfriend took me to Krabi and paid for everything and fucked me silly.[/QUOTE]I specifically pay for sex. I go to an oily, spend an hour and a half do all kinds of things and then leave. I don't want to hear about sick mom, annoyed brother, drunk buffalo. I just want 90 min of full on PSE and then I want to leave. Just like riding a roller coaster only more fun.

The only gal I invest any emotion or effort in is my girlfriend. I have no desire to spend time with any other woman unless it is in the above fashion. Going to an oily is a totally separate experience. It is like comparing playing golf with making a carrot cake.

Milan Kundera said it so well in The Unbearable Lightness of Being. Paraphrased- Lust and love are different if not opposite emotions. Lust extends to countless women, love to only one. Love is expressed in the desire for shared sleep.

I wholeheartedly agree. There is only one woman I want to sleep beside and wake up with. I want to doink lots of 'them.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1539840]I'm going to make an outlandish statement and suggest a good sex worker should be held in higher regard than the common wife. First, the sex worker is more direct and honest. She offers a menu of pleasures. If you're interested, pay her the agreed rate and have your fun. There is no nagging or complaining; and afterwards you're free to go about your business as you please. A wife locks you into a lifetime relationship. She will nag, never stop demanding money, and the demands will always increase, even as she grows old and fat. When you want sex she's too tired or has a headache. Want a little a-level or even CIM, forget it, what do you thing she is? When you've had enough and try to escape the misery, she'll take you for everything you have, and then perhaps a bit more for good measure. In contrast a good sex worker brings nothing but pleasure to many men, perhaps many, many men. Take the famous Apple of Cherry Massage fame. How much pleasure did she give to how many men? Has anyone read or heard about a guy who left her disappointed.[/QUOTE]You get totally different things from a sex worker as opposed to a companion that you choose to share your life with. Nagging, complaining? I have had none of that with my two long term Thai girlfriends. Sex? Is it really that important to have CIM and A-levels at home? Is it a deal killer? Why should it be when you can go out and have that with countless hookers? In the West it is important to be extremely sexually compatible with your partner. Here not so much. There are other things that are far more important.

[QUOTE=Mr Enternational; 1539874]PK, you compared a GOOD sex worker to a COMMON wife. Why not compare good with good or common with common? A good sex worker is hard to come by and takes many trials to find. With a limited time in Bangkok a guy has to dive in head first without pussyfooting around. He is subject to a big margin of fuck ups throughout his many trials.

A guy has all the time in the world to choose a wife so there is no reason to be in such a rush that he fucks up and chooses wrong. And if I was to choose a wife I wouldn't get a common one as you have described. She would have to be damn good for me. I'm not understanding how and why guys are choosing women who won't eat right and go to the gym, won't have sex with them when and how they want it, and demand money, and then later on complain about it. My relationship with my wife was nothing like that. We always kept our money separate and each paid the bills that each was responsible for. When we decided to break up we split everything that we had obtined together evenly. It sounds like some guys should make wiser decisions.[/QUOTE]Amen. I think many dudes have broken "pickers." They choose women because they like the sex. As my friend used to say,"He stuck it in and in six seconds he was in love." Confusing lust with love is very easy for us Westerners as sex is not so easy to obtain in the West. Come over here, and getting laid is like going to McDonalds.

[QUOTE=Mr Enternational; 1539874]PK, you compared a GOOD sex worker to a COMMON wife. Why not compare good with good or common with common?[/QUOTE]First, my post was written tongue in cheek. I thought by opening the post with comments on the big offer versus small offer story would make it clear my post was intended to be funny and not serious; and I opened by writing I was making an outlandish statement. Seems whenever I don't use smilies, sarcasm and attempts at dry wit are misunderstood. But let me respond to your points, not to argue with you but to develop the discussion.

Finding good sex workers: by doing research it is possible to find a few good sex workers. A year or more ago ISG was a good source; however, I've noticed for some time now there are few reviews of sex workers in general and few members seem to want to disclose the names of the good ones they come across. Or perhaps Tomas, the Whorist, is correct in saying most ISG members are frustrated, married men who are fantasizing about locales they have never visited. ;) Regardless, back to my point, generally one session is enough to spot a good lady and she is likely to be even better if you see her again in a few days. And when you get tired of her, don't go back. A bad one costs you the MP fee and a reduced tip. The costs of mistakes are small.

Finding a good wife: this involves much more time, effort and expense. If after a first date you like a lady you will need to date her a few more times to get to know her. Some ladies expect to share the cost of dating equally, some (I think a majority) do not. You likely will have to date several ladies before you find someone who is a good matrimonial match. Then you have to invest considerable time (and money) into the relationship to verify your feelings and comparability. Even if all indications are good and you decide to get married, some people change after they are married. I've known men and women who acted a certain way to "land" their spouse only to revert to their real manner and personality after the wedding, to the alarm of their partner. A marriage is a long term commitment. Years in the future either person may have changed, physically, emotionally, intellectually. What was once a good relationship may be in decline. Getting out of a bad marriage is often costly, financially and emotionally.

I'm not saying one should not marry, have children, raise and support a family. Perhaps the most important thing we do in our life is to produce and raise good children to ensure the quality of the next generation. I was married for 20 years, raised two intelligent and wonderful children. My divorce was relatively simple and easy; but I've known men who thought their divorces would be simple and easy only to find themselves spending a lot of money defending a prenuptial agreement. I read a recent article in which the author asked very wealthy men what they most feared in life. By far the most common response was a divorce.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1539901]You get totally different things from a sex worker as opposed to a companion that you choose to share your life with. Nagging, complaining? I have had none of that with my two long term Thai girlfriends. Sex? Is it really that important to have CIM and A-levels at home? Is it a deal killer? Why should it be when you can go out and have that with countless hookers? In the West it is important to be extremely sexually compatible with your partner. Here not so much. There are other things that are far more important.[/QUOTE]This is absolutely brilliant!

Its become almost impossible to find it all in 1 partner. That is why the American divorce rate is over 50 percent and the dissatisfaction rate is even higher. The divorce rate would be 95 percent "but for the kids".

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1539891]The only difference between bar girls and their West Virginia sister is the gals here tend to be slim and have all their teeth. Methinks that is not a basis for a long term relationship. Eventually it will come back to bite you.[/QUOTE]OF course, with all those teeth in good condition it is a foregone conclusion she will bite you.

Silliness aside, I once heard somewhere that a "real lady" only accepts flowers and chocolates, accepting anything else makes her less than a "lady".

Accepting money for services (to be) rendered makes her P4P and yes that will include most married women.

Finally some posts with a balanced view here, from Western 787, Paul Kausch and Run Mann. Good!

Posters like Phordpahn, Enternational, Goatscrot do have SOME interesting stuff in their posts; like critcizing the naive tourist and sharing their experience of staying many years in Thailand. BUT; they take it WAY too long IMHO, and are themselves naive in believing what their girlfriends or "girlfriends" tell them. I find it mildly amusing that some expats (or is it "locals") after a while in this country feel that they are SO much above the tourists. And then become CONDITIONED to see it like the "good" girls or "good girls" see it. (The social pecking order.) At least the short-time tourist has the excuse of inexperience! To laugh openly at the sex-tourist and his "girlfriend" I find very inpolite.

That said, I see that there's different viewpoints based on where you stand in life, if you like the married Asian lifestyle: Good for you. The discussion turned into that subject with the last postings, but that's a different issue than the OP (Daddy San) started with.

Also interesting to see how some react to opposing views with aggressiveness and RHETORICAL QUESTIONS WHICH MAKE DISCUSSION DIFFICULT. Adversarial. And recurrent here is the general disdain for p4p: "painfully true that it's there" and so on, as one poster put it. Why?

To the OP: Thailand and Thais has a RELATIVELY liberal wiew on p4p, BUT; not even here is it regarded as "totally nice", and even less so when there are foreigners involved. However, it's VERY seldom for them to harass like you described, but that's also because they are polite poeple, they don't want to make other people lose face. However they may THINK negatively about you. Also: I dont' find your question silly, on the conrary I find it interesting and a challange to answer.

My suggestion: Don't care what other people think, just enjoy your time with the p4p-women here. Including "parading" in the street. Also enjoy GFE with them it that's your cup of tea. Just have in the back of your head that it's a game.

I hope you all out there have a nice time with your tea, whatever cup it is in.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1539576]IMHO for every full time hooker in Bangkok, there are at least 4 semi-pro part timers: some university students, office workers, or other categories. And unless there is a contextual clue such as them walking hand in hand with an older Farang, or hanging in Beergarden, Thermae, or to a lesser extent in Spasso's or similar venues, one cannot necessarily pick them out as working girls.

Aggressive and open verbal harassment of a working girl walking with her customer on Sukhumvit or other tourist areas is in fact very uncommon. Its outlier behavior. Nor are young Thai males to any large extent being denied sex because of sex tourists buying hookers, as most of the these girls have Thai boyfriends anyways. I would be very surprised if it dificult for the average young Thai to get laid, so need to be bitter and take it out on a working girl. Also we know Thais reserve the cream of the crop for themselves, so many of these Thais, if for example if they got a good job, have access to some amazingly hot women.

They were probably drunk and possibly (its not inconceivable at least) experiencing frustration and anger maybe because of the protest related economic hit they may be still experiencing, which even in the best case scenario could linger another 3 to 6 months with one high season already missed, so they see a hooker making easy money and end up acting like jerks.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Daddy San;1539344]Yesterday morning, while walking the 100 m from my hotel to Sukhumvit with my GF of the previous night. 3 different thai louts followed us and called 'things' after my GF.

Even though I did not understand a single word, just by the sound of it, it definitely did not sound nice, as the unhappy look on my GF's face confirmed.
At first, she didn't want to tell what the men had been calling, but finally admitted that they had been calling her names, of which "Falang Holiday Wh*o*re" was the nicest.

With the Sukhumvit area practically 'living' off sex services provided to tourists and from what I thought to know about Thai women's attitude towards sex c.q. prostitution, I am surprised at such open animosity towards one of their own.

I would be interested to hear from other members (preferably only those, who know what they are talking about) , of similar experiences and of the Thai society's attitude towards Thai-falang p4p relationsships in general.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Goatscrot; 1539891]I have not really observed girls who are not hookers dressing like hookers.

I would say that even 5 years ago your second paragraph would be accurate, now not so much. The majority of farang + thai relationships now are not hooker and host. Those relationships are painfully obvious and always have been.

Most expats that I know view Thailand a simply a stopover. Very few will choose to remain her for the duration. Their Thai spouse will accompany them to Farang land where things are in fact different. When a person plans to be somewhere long term he / she better for the most part buy into the culture.

Asians are judgmental in a different way than we Westerners. Ask an Asian what makes a beautiful woman and 9 times out of 10 you will get the same answer. Their norms and mores are far more rigid and formed than ours. They also accept these tenants mainly without question. Everything is based on face. That is what allows people to be promiscuous. As long as you do not cause your partner to lose face, you have free rein to do as you please. Many of us take advantage of that.

Of course taking an obvious bar girl to a dinner party with your Thai business associates and their wives will cause you to lose face. The Thai dudes will wonder what is wrong with you and the women will just think you are nasty. Would you take a 6th grade educated West Virginia hillbilly with you to a wedding at the country club? Probably not. Would you even consider dating a woman like that back home? Probably not. The only difference between bar girls and their West Virginia sister is the gals here tend to be slim and have all their teeth. Methinks that is not a basis for a long term relationship. Eventually it will come back to bite you.

My point is simply this; we all make choices when it comes to relationships. Make a choice that helps you in more ways then just keeping jr happy.[/QUOTE]I already addressed the point you are making again about who you would take to a dinner party but you skipped right over it to make the same point again. Look, you can go ahead and live your life to gain the approval of a culture that is to put it mildly, corrupt and morally deficient by any standards. There are some great people here in Thailand but this culture as a whole is in no position to lecture anyone on lifestyles acceptability. I know I don't have to explain that to anyone.

Lose face concept = ruse (use as a convenience, I mean which culture wants to lose face?)

You use a lot of extreme examples to make your points, I prefer to stay in the middle of the bell and use the norms. Extreme examples exist in any setting but those are not the norm.

I will tell you that after all you wrote, I am still not convince and will not bow or tow the line to gain the approval of anyone. What a burden to bare living your life in such as way to gain someone else's approval? I have my own set of values and morals (yes, I do, even though I am on a sex board) I love myself and my opinion of myself much more than I will ever love theirs.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot; 1539891]I have not really observed girls who are not hookers dressing like hookers.

I would say that even 5 years ago your second paragraph would be accurate, now not so much. The majority of farang + thai relationships now are not hooker and host. Those relationships are painfully obvious and always have been.

Most expats that I know view Thailand a simply a stopover. Very few will choose to remain her for the duration. Their Thai spouse will accompany them to Farang land where things are in fact different. When a person plans to be somewhere long term he / she better for the most part buy into the culture.

Asians are judgmental in a different way than we Westerners. Ask an Asian what makes a beautiful woman and 9 times out of 10 you will get the same answer. Their norms and mores are far more rigid and formed than ours..[/QUOTE]Do well heeled business guys take bargirls to business functions? If they do they shouldn't have gotten their assignment in the first place. Corporate made a bad decision.

The more goatie speaks the more clueless he sounds. He uses the strawman argument. All the farangs he knows. Who are these guys?

Anyways the girls are back. Packed stages but no penises. Will prices cum down? Supply and demand is not in balance-soemthing has to give.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot; 1539896]I specifically pay for sex. I go to an oily, spend an hour and a half do all kinds of things and then leave. I don't want to hear about sick mom, annoyed brother, drunk buffalo. I just want 90 min of full on PSE and then I want to leave. Just like riding a roller coaster only more fun.

The only gal I invest any emotion or effort in is my girlfriend. I have no desire to spend time with any other woman unless it is in the above fashion. Going to an oily is a totally separate experience. It is like comparing playing golf with making a carrot cake.

Milan Kundera said it so well in The Unbearable Lightness of Being. Paraphrased- Lust and love are different if not opposite emotions. Lust extends to countless women, love to only one. Love is expressed in the desire for shared sleep.

I wholeheartedly agree. There is only one woman I want to sleep beside and wake up with. I want to doink lots of 'them.[/QUOTE]If you need to stray maybe your gf isn't the one for you!

[QUOTE=Hiihii; 1540021]Do well heeled business guys take bargirls to business functions? If they do they shouldn't have gotten their assignment in the first place. Corporate made a bad decision.

The more goatie speaks the more clueless he sounds. He uses the strawman argument. All the farangs he knows. Who are these guys?

Anyways the girls are back. Packed stages but no penises. Will prices cum down? Supply and demand is not in balance-soemthing has to give.[/QUOTE]Huh? Really? I know lots of guys with fat expat packages that are dating and living with bar girls. I have a friend with a PHD who was a the head go between for a major pharma and their research docs; married a bar girl. It happens all the time. I never said "all" the farangs I know. In fact, quite the contrary. I know many young dudes here who are dating non-P4P gals and would not even enter a gogo bar.

You need to re-read my posts.

[QUOTE=Hiihii;1540022]If you need to stray maybe your gf isn't the one for you![/QUOTE]Uh, who wants to be monogamous? That is the beauty of living here. If not what's the point?

[QUOTE=Run Mann; 1539950]I already addressed the point you are making again about who you would take to a dinner party but you skipped right over it to make the same point again. Look, you can go ahead and live your life to gain the approval of a culture that is to put it mildly, corrupt and morally deficient by any standards. There are some great people here in Thailand but this culture as a whole is in no position to lecture anyone on lifestyles acceptability. I know I don't have to explain that to anyone.

Lose face concept = ruse (use as a convenience, I mean which culture wants to lose face?)

You use a lot of extreme examples to make your points, I prefer to stay in the middle of the bell and use the norms. Extreme examples exist in any setting but those are not the norm.

I will tell you that after all you wrote, I am still not convince and will not bow or tow the line to gain the approval of anyone. What a burden to bare living your life in such as way to gain someone else's approval? I have my own set of values and morals (yes, I do, even though I am on a sex board) I love myself and my opinion of myself much more than I will ever love theirs.[/QUOTE]Really, you are condemning the attitudes and culture here? Well, it has certainly worked for Thais for some time now. Morally deficient? By whose standards? Yours? The West's? Give me a break. Honestly what are you comparing it to? America? The nation that invades others?

The path of least resistance is the way to travel here. Burden? Quit the contrary; making it easy on oneself is the name of the game.

If you think losing face is a "ruse" then you really are looking at it from an ethnocentric point of view. It is difficult for people to accept that cultural ways differing from their own can be functional. If you are indeed doing business or working in Thailand, it will be very difficult for you if you choose not to play by their rules. If you chose to live in Thailand, you should do your best to try to "fit in" as well as we foreigners can. Learn the language and do your best with the culture. If you are just coming here for P4P or for a meeting then that is something entirely different, and frankly with that limited knowledge you have very little room to comment on the "acceptability" of things here. 14 years is long enough for me to know I will never be Thai, nor will I every understand all the nuances her, but I can do my best to learn all I can, not make waves, and make my own life here as pleasant and stress free as possible and not be an eyesore or be offensive to the people who allow me to stay in their country.

[QUOTE=Rjsss212; 1539934]This is absolutely brilliant!

Its become almost impossible to find it all in 1 partner. That is why the American divorce rate is over 50 percent and the dissatisfaction rate is even higher. The divorce rate would be 95 percent "but for the kids".[/QUOTE]Yep and Asian culture makes allowance for that. Ain't it great.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot; 1540056]Really, you are condemning the attitudes and culture here? Well, it has certainly worked for Thais for some time now. Morally deficient? By whose standards? Yours? The West's? Give me a break. Honestly what are you comparing it to? America? The nation that invades others?

The path of least resistance is the way to travel here. Burden? Quit the contrary; making it easy on oneself is the name of the game.

If you think losing face is a "ruse" then you really are looking at it from an ethnocentric point of view. It is difficult for people to accept that cultural ways differing from their own can be functional. If you are indeed doing business or working in Thailand, it will be very difficult for you if you choose not to play by their rules. If you chose to live in Thailand, you should do your best to try to "fit in" as well as we foreigners can. Learn the language and do your best with the culture. If you are just coming here for P4P or for a meeting then that is something entirely different, and frankly with that limited knowledge you have very little room to comment on the "acceptability" of things here. 14 years is long enough for me to know I will never be Thai, nor will I every understand all the nuances her, but I can do my best to learn all I can, not make waves, and make my own life here as pleasant and stress free as possible and not be an eyesore or be offensive to the people who allow me to stay in their country.[/QUOTE]I am not condemning anything, I am stating the obvious, hard to have discourse with you because you keep changing the facts. This was not a discussion about culture or rules or not making waves. You're changing the chords of the song. But again, I am not convinced by your argument so I will keep doing this my way and in no way am I going to try to convince you of anything. Believe whatever you want.

[QUOTE=Hiihii;1540022]If you need to stray maybe your gf isn't the one for you![/QUOTE]Boy, didn't you ask the sixty-four thousand dollar question!

If a guy is in a happy relationship why would he need a steady diet of sex workers? Seems something is wrong; but I don't mean wrong in a moral sense.

When I've been unattached, I've fucked as many different women as I can. When I've been in an unhappy relationship that was falling apart, I've cheated on my partner. When I've been in a good relationship, I've had no desire to fool around behind my partner's back. At that time that woman satisfied all of my emotional and sexual needs. I had no need to seek sexual gratification from another woman. I loved and wanted to be faithful to my partner. Cheating would have hurt me, as I knew it would hurt her.

Now I understand why a guy who feels trapped in an unhappy marriage with a woman he does not love and is not physically attracted to has affairs. I'm not going to judge the fellow, nor blame him for his situation. We all make mistakes. We can marry the wrong woman. Religion, extended family, children, family finances, many reasons can make it too difficult to get out of an unhappy marriage. The need for a couple hours of bliss in the arms of a sexy young woman who is satisfying our sexual needs is understandable. I can understand having relationships outside the marriage: a regular girlfriend, a regular sex worker, or a series of affairs with non-pros or pros. The poor fellow is just dealing with a difficult situation, trying to hold a bad marriage together while occasionally satisfying emotional and sexual needs that are not being taken care of within the marriage.

I won't go into a consistent pattern of cheating on a girl friend. That is something I don't understand. One fling during a bad period in the relationship, I get that. I don't understand a need to have periodic sex outside a good relationship. I try not to pass judgment on others. I've encounter so many surprising situations in my life, it seems now nothing surprises me. When I see someone do something I don't understand, rather than criticize the bloke, I just assume I've never been in the same situation as he so who am I to judge.

I'm glad my life is simple now. I have my family and my friends, children and grandchildren. I'm not now nor ever expect to be in a romantic relationship. I can do anything I damn well please. I can fuck as many different woman as I wish. No need for lies and deception. It is a very liberating feeling. I don't need a wife or lover. I prefer my own company. I get along smashingly well with myself. No conflicts. No other person's needs to worry about. A couple of hours, an evening or a few days of superficial sex with an endless array of pretty young ladies engaged in what I think is a very noble profession takes care of whatever needs I, my family or friends cannot. Life is good.

[QUOTE=John Traveller; 1539941]Finally some posts with a balanced view here, from Western 787, Paul Kausch and Run Mann. Good!

Posters like Phordpahn, Enternational, Goatscrot do have SOME interesting stuff in their posts; like critcizing the naive tourist and sharing their experience of staying many years in Thailand. BUT; they take it WAY too long IMHO, and are themselves naive in believing what their girlfriends or "girlfriends" tell them. I find it mildly amusing that some expats (or is it "locals") after a while in this country feel that they are SO much above the tourists. And then become CONDITIONED to see it like the "good" girls or "good girls" see it. (The social pecking order.) At least the short-time tourist has the excuse of inexperience! To laugh openly at the sex-tourist and his "girlfriend" I find very inpolite.

That said, I see that there's different viewpoints based on where you stand in life, if you like the married Asian lifestyle: Good for you. The discussion turned into that subject with the last postings, but that's a different issue than the OP (Daddy San) started with.

Also interesting to see how some react to opposing views with aggressiveness and RHETORICAL QUESTIONS WHICH MAKE DISCUSSION DIFFICULT. Adversarial. And recurrent here is the general disdain for p4p: "painfully true that it's there" and so on, as one poster put it. Why?

To the OP: Thailand and Thais has a RELATIVELY liberal wiew on p4p, BUT; not even here is it regarded as "totally nice", and even less so when there are foreigners involved. However, it's VERY seldom for them to harass like you described, but that's also because they are polite poeple, they don't want to make other people lose face. However they may THINK negatively about you. Also: I don't' find your question silly, on the conrary I find it interesting and a challange to answer.

My suggestion: Don't care what other people think, just enjoy your time with the p4p-women here. Including "parading" in the street. Also enjoy GFE with them it that's your cup of tea. Just have in the back of your head that it's a game.

I hope you all out there have a nice time with your tea, whatever cup it is in.[/QUOTE]Actually none of what I write is based on what my girlfriend tell me. I don't feel in any way that residents are "above" tourist. We simply have different priorities and different points of view.

I would say P4P is "tolerated" in Thailand. Technically it is illegal, but so are lots of things in this nation. Laws are enforced only when they need to be, again a very different philosophy then we have in the West. Most Thais loathe P4P and hookers are generally looked down upon. I wish this was not the case. It would be nice if it were legal and a legitimate form of work. Blame males for that actually as most men want to "own" women sexually.

You are 100% correct about Thais not harassing openly. Very true. However, they do use tone of voice, sarcasm, and looks like no other. Every Thai knows exactly where they stand on that "pecking order."

For a visitor your advice is sage. For a resident, not so much so. Taking hordes of bar girls back to your apartment could cause you to lose your lease in many cases.

[QUOTE=John Traveller;1539941]My suggestion: Don't care what other people think, just enjoy your time with the p4p-women here. Including "parading" in the street. Also enjoy GFE with them it that's your cup of tea. Just have in the back of your head that it's a game. I hope you all out there have a nice time with your tea, whatever cup it is in.[/QUOTE]Damn right JT. It's your holiday so just enjoy it and more than likely nobody is going to know you anyway. Whenever me and my wingmen go to a new destination we usually have P4P chicks show us around. Our first time in Bangkok chicks from Angel's Disco showed us things that we probably would not have ever known was even there.[QUOTE=Hiihii;1540022]If you need to stray maybe your gf isn't the one for you![/QUOTE]Whoever said that if you have a girlfriend you were not allowed to deal with anyone else? That would depend on the terms of your relationship. Most people don't take the time to go over what they expect with or from each other. They just assume the other person has the same ideas that they have. That is why before my relationship started I told my girlfriend that I was a player and made sure she was okay with that. I know myself and I'm too old to pretend to be something that I am not or not be something that I am. That doesn't mean that I am going to be disrespectful towards her. I am going to be discrete with what I do.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1540062]I'm glad my life is simple now. I have my family and my friends, children and grandchildren. I'm not now nor ever expect to be in a romantic relationship. I can do anything I damn well please. I can fuck as many different woman as I wish. No need for lies and deception. It is a very liberating feeling. I don't need a wife or lover. I prefer my own company. I get along smashingly well with myself. No conflicts. No other person's needs to worry about. A couple of hours, an evening or a few days of superficial sex with an endless array of pretty young ladies engaged in what I think is a very noble profession takes care of whatever needs I, my family or friends cannot. Life is good.[/QUOTE]Without the grandkids bit, you have just perfectly described my own life and my own feelings toward it. Great piece of articulation.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1540062]I'm not now nor ever expect to be in a romantic relationship. I can do anything I damn well please. I can fuck as many different woman as I wish. No need for lies and deception. It is a very liberating feeling. I don't need a wife or lover. I prefer my own company. I get along smashingly well with myself. No conflicts. No other person's needs to worry about. A couple of hours, an evening or a few days of superficial sex with an endless array of pretty young ladies engaged in what I think is a very noble profession takes care of whatever needs I, my family or friends cannot. Life is good.[/QUOTE]Amen, brother! My point of view exactly!

[QUOTE=Hiihii;1540021]Anyways the girls are back. Packed stages but no penises. Will prices cum down? Supply and demand is not in balance-soemthing has to give.[/QUOTE] Quoting one of the greatest philosophers and thinkers of the 20th century Chance the Gardener: "There will be growth in the spring!"

[QUOTE=Mr Enternational; 1539874]PK, you compared a GOOD sex worker to a COMMON wife. Why not compare good with good or common with common? A good sex worker is hard to come by and takes many trials to find. With a limited time in Bangkok a guy has to dive in head first without pussyfooting around. He is subject to a big margin of fuck ups throughout his many trials.

A guy has all the time in the world to choose a wife so there is no reason to be in such a rush that he fucks up and chooses wrong. And if I was to choose a wife I wouldn't get a common one as you have described. She would have to be damn good for me. I'm not understanding how and why guys are choosing women who won't eat right and go to the gym, won't have sex with them when and how they want it, and demand money, and then later on complain about it. My relationship with my wife was nothing like that. We always kept our money separate and each paid the bills that each was responsible for. When we decided to break up we split everything that we had obtined together evenly. It sounds like some guys should make wiser decisions.[/QUOTE]You and PK have hit on why I am here and not slaving away to pay a mortgage for a wife in USA.

I am too damn hard to please to be married. So many beautiful flowers and lovely fragrances.

[QUOTE=IamJohnGalt; 1540109]You and PK have hit on why I am here and not slaving away to pay a mortgage for a wife in USA.

I am too damn hard to please to be married. So many beautiful flowers and lovely fragrances.[/QUOTE]Know thyself. Not all people are cut out to be in a long term relationship. At least not in every phase of their life. I knew one seemingly happily married couple who in the sixties decided to get a divorce. They were adamant there were no serious problems in the relationship. They both decided they preferred to be single. I knew other couples where after decades of marriage one person came to that conclusion and acted on it. The spouse was not very happy with that. In my case I think I have been single for so long and have become so fond of my near total freedom that it would be difficult to be in a relationship.

[QUOTE=Mr Enternational;1540080]That is why before my relationship started I told my girlfriend that I was a player and made sure she was okay with that. I know myself and I'm too old to pretend to be something that I am not or not be something that I am. That doesn't mean that I am going to be disrespectful towards her. I am going to be discrete with what I do.[/QUOTE]I would suggest employing a "don't ask don't tell policy." Announcing to her that you are going to be doinking other women is not being discreet. You are putting it in her face. It is not pretending, it is the way men handle the situation here.

Personally I don't know any woman that would want to hear that from a dude."If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it."

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1540112]Know thyself. Not all people are cut out to be in a long term relationship. At least not in every phase of their life. I knew one seemingly happily married couple who in the sixties decided to get a divorce. They were adamant there were no serious problems in the relationship. They both decided they preferred to be single. I knew other couples where after decades of marriage one person came to that conclusion and acted on it. The spouse was not very happy with that. In my case I think I have been single for so long and have become so fond of my near total freedom that it would be difficult to be in a relationship.[/QUOTE]Totally get that. I can see how at points in one's life, being alone is a wonderful thing.

[QUOTE=Run Mann;1540061]I am not condemning anything, I am stating the obvious, hard to have discourse with you because you keep changing the facts. This was not a discussion about culture or rules or not making waves. You're changing the chords of the song. But again, I am not convinced by your argument so I will keep doing this my way and in no way am I going to try to convince you of anything. Believe whatever you want.[/QUOTE]Obvious? You are simply stating your feelings and judgements about Thai culture. And yes, you were condemning in your post, which of course it fine, but just own it.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1540062]I have my family and my friends, children and grandchildren.[/QUOTE]What I am for sure happiest about is that I have almost reached 50 and have never had kids. Wives, girlfriends, yes, you can get out of those with relative ease, but kids, that is a commitment till you die. One I will pass on.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch; 1540062]Boy, didn't you ask the sixty-four thousand dollar question!

If a guy is in a happy relationship why would he need a steady diet of sex workers? Seems something is wrong; but I don't mean wrong in a moral sense.

When I've been unattached, I've fucked as many different women as I can. When I've been in an unhappy relationship that was falling apart, I've cheated on my partner. When I've been in a good relationship, I've had no desire to fool around behind my partner's back. At that time that woman satisfied all of my emotional and sexual needs. I had no need to seek sexual gratification from another woman. I loved and wanted to be faithful to my partner. Cheating would have hurt me, as I knew it would hurt her.

Now I understand why a guy who feels trapped in an unhappy marriage with a woman he does not love and is not physically attracted to has affairs. I'm not going to judge the fellow, nor blame him for his situation. We all make mistakes. We can marry the wrong woman. Religion, extended family, children, family finances, many reasons can make it too difficult to get out of an unhappy marriage. The need for a couple hours of bliss in the arms of a sexy young woman who is satisfying our sexual needs is understandable. I can understand having relationships outside the marriage: a regular girlfriend, a regular sex worker, or a series of affairs with non-pros or pros. The poor fellow is just dealing with a difficult situation, trying to hold a bad marriage together while occasionally satisfying emotional and sexual needs that are not being taken care of within the marriage.

I won't go into a consistent pattern of cheating on a girl friend. That is something I don't understand. One fling during a bad period in the relationship, I get that. I don't understand a need to have periodic sex outside a good relationship. I try not to pass judgment on others. I've encounter so many surprising situations in my life, it seems now nothing surprises me. When I see someone do something I don't understand, rather than criticize the bloke, I just assume I've never been in the same situation as he so who am I to judge.[/QUOTE]Love and sex are two very different things. While one can remain fairly constant, love, sexual attraction fades in a relationship.

Just finished a very good book about the physical reasons for this. Unrealistic expectations are one of the reasons relationships end.

Actually I don't at all consider meaningless sexual encounters "cheating" to say. They are fun like a roller coaster ride but carry no meaning or emotional content.

However, if you are out with other women looking to fill something that is lacking emotionally in your relationship, then there is of course an issue.

For me that is not the case. I am not dating, romancing, or interacting beyond the sex act and all that is involved with it. I have no desire beyond that.

When I am the most content and happy with life, work, GF, etc, that is when I go out and doink the most. Why? Because I am happy and feel good, therefore my sex drive is high. Same goes with alcohol. I don't drink when I feel bad, I do when I feel good!

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1540131]Obvious? You are simply stating your feelings and judgements about Thai culture. And yes, you were condemning in your post, which of course it fine, but just own it.[/QUOTE]No, I did not and its not fine and I will not own it. I am not a pretender so I have no need to impress anyone to gain their approval.

[QUOTE=Run Mann;1540138]No, I did not and its not fine and I will not own it. I am not a pretender so I have no need to impress anyone to gain their approval.[/QUOTE]Here is your quote- "Look, you can go ahead and live your life to gain the approval of a culture that is to put it mildly, corrupt and morally deficient by any standards. There are some great people here in Thailand but this culture as a whole is in no position to lecture anyone on lifestyles acceptability. I know I don't have to explain that to anyone. Lose face concept = ruse (use as a convenience, I mean which culture wants to lose face?)"

"Corrupt and morally deficient by any standards." I would say that is quite judgmental, ethnocentric, and condemning. You would disagree?

[QUOTE=Goatscrot; 1540139]Here is your quote- "Look, you can go ahead and live your life to gain the approval of a culture that is to put it mildly, corrupt and morally deficient by any standards. There are some great people here in Thailand but this culture as a whole is in no position to lecture anyone on lifestyles acceptability. I know I don't have to explain that to anyone. Lose face concept = ruse (use as a convenience, I mean which culture wants to lose face?)"

"Corrupt and morally deficient by any standards." I would say that is quite judgmental, ethnocentric, and condemning. You would disagree?[/QUOTE]Yes! The truth is what it is but after all your postings, you still failed to convince me and from the responses below several others here. There's no where else to go with this.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot; 1540137]Love and sex are two very different things.

I am not dating, romancing, or interacting beyond the sex act and all that is involved with it. I have no desire beyond that.

When I am the most content and happy with life, work, GF, etc, that is when I go out and doink the most. Why? Because I am happy and feel good, therefore my sex drive is high. Same goes with alcohol. I don't drink when I feel bad, I do when I feel good![/QUOTE]On the first point above, I and I think most men would agree with you.

On the second point. I get it. It is like you are using the woman's orifices in the place of your hand. Makes sense. It feels better and there is no need to fantasize about it because you are doing it.

On the third point, that also makes sense. Though one of the odd things about my marriage was regardless the general quality of the relationship, the sex was always good or better. My ex and I could have a ferocious fight and then immediately transition into some of the hottest and wildest sex we ever had. I think I was trying to show her how hard I could pound her and she was trying to show me should could take it and dish it back just as hard. Reading what I just wrote, that sounds weird, and kinky. Afterwards we might remark how we should fight more often. Unfortunate, that came true. LOL

Sitting here this afternoon in my hotel BKK on soi4 enjoying these philosophical postings today. Canadian guy with grandkids visiting thailandia the past 7 weeks slowly getting over breakup of a 21 month relationship with a gorgeous 26 year old colombiana last October in Medellin with the help of some beautiful thai girls. Remember a posting that the writer said maximum time together 3 times to avoid a relationship starting, good plan! But it seldom seems to work for me. Back to Kanuckistan next week for a month then to Havana as my top 3 favorite chicas are Cubanas, Colombianas, Thaisanas, Canadianas are so far down the list there is not room on this page to write.

[QUOTE=Bart1;1540164]Sitting here this afternoon in my hotel BKK on soi4 enjoying these philosophical postings today. Canadian guy with grandkids visiting thailandia the past 7 weeks slowly getting over breakup of a 21 month relationship with a gorgeous 26 year old colombiana last October in Medellin with the help of some beautiful thai girls. Remember a posting that the writer said maximum time together 3 times to avoid a relationship starting, good plan! But it seldom seems to work for me. Back to Kanuckistan next week for a month then to Havana as my top 3 favorite chicas are Cubanas, Colombianas, Thaisanas, Canadianas are so far down the list there is not room on this page to write.[/QUOTE]Damn, nice life you are living. Would love to hit Columbia some day. Compare and contrast Columbia and Thailand for those of us who have not been. Lifestyle, cost, gals, etc!

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1540151]On the third point, that also makes sense. Though one of the odd things about my marriage was regardless the general quality of the relationship, the sex was always good or better. My ex and I could have a ferocious fight and then immediately transition into some of the hottest and wildest sex we ever had. I think I was trying to show her how hard I could pound her and she was trying to show me should could take it and dish it back just as hard. Reading what I just wrote, that sounds weird, and kinky. Afterwards we might remark how we should fight more often. Unfortunate, that came true. LOL[/QUOTE]Paul, I think passion fuels sex. After a time the initial passion wanes, but a volatile relationship can fuel passion as well. I have had relationships as such in the states and yes the sex can stay at a fevered pitch for a time. But at what cost? As you stated,"that came true." For me as well, several times.

In the almost 7 years I have been with my gal we have had a total of three fights. Our home environment is peaceful. We have complimentary personalities and get along very well. There is no jealousy, no competition, it is just well, nice. Trade off is not a whole lot of passion, but I am totally ok with that and so is she. It is a subject we have discussed many times. There may be a point where that is not ok, but we shall see. Her parents have been together for 35 years and have a similar type relationship. It is what she has known. Growing up in a safe, nurturing home that is peaceful without fighting and drama, makes a real difference in the type of relationship one can have.

Of course nothing is quite as intense as a relationship with a gal who has daddy issues, low self-esteem, and low self-concept. The sex is always amazing but there is never security and peace.

I don't really need or want that type of intensity at home. It leads to "that came true," more often than naught. I want a nice pleasant fun safe environment lacking in tension.

If I want a wild experience I will go rent it.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1540181]Damn, nice life you are living. Would love to hit Columbia some day. Compare and contrast Columbia and Thailand for those of us who have not been. Lifestyle, cost, gals, etc![/QUOTE]To me Colombianas are the most beautiful women in the world (albeit these days there is a lot of plastic surgery going on down there - tit and ass implants, body sculpturing). As far as lifestyle, there really is not anything to do. There is a big mall culture. They just walk around brand new malls not buying anything. There is not a big variety of food either. The hookers aren't so cheap either. I shop at some of the lower end fuck houses in a neighborhood of Bogota called Santa Fe. I get a girl for 1 pop for about $10-$15. I have gotten them to say they will stay all night for $50, but I keep non-pros for that. I think most guys are going there and paying at least $100 ST. For a place to live, to me Thailand wins hands down.

[QUOTE=Bart1;1540164]Sitting here this afternoon in my hotel BKK on soi4 enjoying these philosophical postings today. Canadian guy with grandkids visiting thailandia the past 7 weeks slowly getting over breakup of a 21 month relationship with a gorgeous 26 year old colombiana last October in Medellin with the help of some beautiful thai girls. Remember a posting that the writer said maximum time together 3 times to avoid a relationship starting, good plan! But it seldom seems to work for me. Back to Kanuckistan next week for a month then to Havana as my top 3 favorite chicas are Cubanas, Colombianas, Thaisanas, Canadianas are so far down the list there is not room on this page to write.[/QUOTE]I have been following the latest discussion but as I view Thailand as a "banana republiq, (look it up through google) I will not have anything to do with Thailand ex I have for the latest soon to be 8 years just come and go, maby 20 times or so each year(almost all girl related and thats it). Never wanting to stay above 14 days at the time (well have been up to 18 days on one occation but then pussy meet was good). I can see reasons for staying here as you work in global company with office (s) or on the other side of the scale you live here for pussy (something like goat I believe). He obviously combine the two or seven reasons). I have to say i also get the same impression from some of my girls from a rather large regular fleet girl, some of them beeing edued in US, Swiss or in some good UNI in BKK..(i dont study background when no reason to so may be it all BS but they are well behaved and know stuff a average thai girl would not know, ie foreign politics) c

But you did well my friend, after a bad break up what is better than to go out and hunt for pussy. I will hereby admit that norwegian girls are great for sex but I ran out of lust for them in my late twenties (I ran into my gf though beeing a half pinay / norwegian but atleast she looked different with all black hair and dark greenbrown eyes, she is born and raised in Norway ofcourse as I don't see me bringing a foreign girl to my parents dinner table).

My early thirties I spend in Venezuela and Colombia and the latter beeing by far the wildest sex experience I ever had (in average) not saying Venezuela was bad, by all means, Cafe Ole in Caracas (close to the french embassy was great area to hang out but rather hi so). And yes I been to booty girls in Rio, Salvadore, Sao Paoulo, Recife, Natal, Curtibia, Fortaleza, Porto Alegre, Manaus etc (all in a+ service) and several other places. But Colombianos serves a better purpouse beeing extremely wild in the sack and will do everything to your desire ex maby strangling (I did have one crazy ***** though asking me to sufficate her, which I did not). This was not even paying ladies, back then. Got it from free ex maby buy a bottle of vodka in the club or sth (but unlike some here I don't see me spending 20000bhts in a club and fuck for free as vaste of money as I do it all the time, even if it is for free I still give sth for gift, beeing present or money in an envelope with "gift" written all over.)

So it seems you have a great life, continue so please. Soon you are hooked with gf, baby and gods know what? My gf just borned me a daughter (to be frank straight from moms pussy she looked ugly, hehe). I know I will be protective when she grows up and I have license for rifles, pistols and you will never see her where we hunt.

Saw a Rainbow girl (old Buzzard) on her way to work. Without her makeup she looks like a grandmother. Not all that great a looker in her work face either. Very nice though.

[QUOTE=Mr Enternational;1540194]To me Colombianas are the most beautiful women in the world (albeit these days there is a lot of plastic surgery going on down there - tit and ass implants, body sculpturing). As far as lifestyle, there really is not anything to do. There is a big mall culture. They just walk around brand new malls not buying anything. There is not a big variety of food either. The hookers aren't so cheap either. I shop at some of the lower end fuck houses in a neighborhood of Bogota called Santa Fe. I get a girl for 1 pop for about $10-$15. I have gotten them to say they will stay all night for $50, but I keep non-pros for that. I think most guys are going there and paying at least $100 ST. For a place to live, to me Thailand wins hands down.[/QUOTE]Mr. International you mention a lack of food variety, I have always found lots of variety in Colombia for example, chicken, french fries and bean soup for lunch, then for dinner bean soup with chicken and french fries, and then of course ketchup as the the Colombians put ketchup on everything. But then I do not go for the culinary delights. The Colombianos love the big fat asses whether natural or silicon which is great for it leaves all the "flacquitas" [slender ones] for me.

[QUOTE=Mr Enternational;1539719]I also don't understand why some guys want to add "semi-" in front of prostitute to make it seem like she is any less of a prostitute. .[/QUOTE]The term SEMI pro can be an important distinction particularly when its one of the major defining characteristics of a market, and can be defined (as Hutsori has on the AC thread) as "a woman who does not earn her livelihood primarily through the exchange of sexual services but on occasion supplements her income by doing so." More semi pros generally mean better quality, more normality, and less jaded providers, and for example (on that basis alone) makes the P4P scene very different when one compares lets say Bangkok to New York City.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot; 1540190]Of course nothing is quite as intense as a relationship with a gal who has daddy issues, low self-esteem, and low self-concept. The sex is always amazing but there is never security and peace.

If I want a wild experience I will go rent it.[/QUOTE]Yea, but thank god their nutty mothers had them and they're around and for us to rent but as you said, only to rent. But remember, those nutty mothers had sons as well and who do you think marries those nutty girls, and many of them post here.

[QUOTE=Mr Enternational; 1539541]What's so funny about his post G? Different people have different comfort levels. When I was living in Brazil I had a couple of girlfriends (one a lawyer and the other in media) who wanted to go to the hooker disco with me out of curiosity. One of them couldn't wait to get away from there while the other did not feel uncomfortable being there.[/QUOTE]Mr. Enternational,

Quite easy to answer your question. It is NOT FUNNY that some girls / woman want to go and check out this scene. Not at all.

It is FUNNY if it is mentioned before that members (hookers) of that scene are considered to be "low lifes" and "dirty".. And then the women check out the scene. Judgement is made already. Thais are hypocrites, as you may know, and some western Thais too.


Giotto

[QUOTE=John Traveller; 1539555]Yes.

It's the pecking order, nothing more nothing less[/QUOTE]Hmmm.

Not sure about that...


Giotto

[QUOTE=Rjsss212; 1539564]So, I've observed another distinction. Girls who were raised in or around Bangkok (or a suburb) and girls who were raised in a northern region.

Bangkok or nearby suburban girls seem to speak the correct Thai and seem to have cleaner etiquette (or maybe can fake it) and northern girls speak a blend and or dialect and seem out of place.[/QUOTE]Rjsss212,

Many issues here.

One problem is that many girls from the North-East (Issan) speak Lao (s) language, not really Thai. And there are lots of prejudices popping up here.

Another issue is the "polite" language, which is usually taught in higher level schools, or from parents with a higher education level. All Thais can easily recognize that, and classify others accordingly.


Giotto

[QUOTE=Phordphan; 1539629]Fuck you, Giotto. And the flea bitten horse you rode in on.

It may surprise you to know that few girls will go to hooker areas, despite all of them knowing about it. Some are curious but would certainly never go there alone, some aren't even curious. I personally know both kinds. So, yes, having a quick escorted tour makes sense for some. Perhaps it's schadenfreude, perhaps something else. All I know is what she told me afterwards.[/QUOTE]Phordphan,

I love you, too.

Nevertheless - think it through.

[QUOTE=Phordphan; 1539629]As for hanging around me, who knows? I gave up the bar scene several years ago, mostly because I got tired of the low-lifes who populated the scene. Guys like you and your GFs, perhaps? Guys like the OP who parades around with a hooker on his arm and wonders why locals give him shit? I'm sure none of my faves would have anything to do with me if I still frequented the farang night-life areas. I do know her comments concerning bar girls are reflected by each and every "normal" Thai girl I know. If your experience is different, so be it.[/QUOTE]
You gave up the bar scene several years ago? Then we are really happy that you still write here. Quite unusual that you did not lose your interest in this forum. And I am just one of this low-lifes. I assure you. Don't worry.
[QUOTE=Phordphan;1539629]PS. Methinks the gentleman doth protest too much. You've made a nice living catering to this segment of the population. Does having your (former) clientele classified as "dirty" and "low life" cut a bit close to the bone?[/QUOTE]
Oh yes, my living was fantastic. In THB 6 digits losses every month made it paradise. Livingstone's was a money burning machine.

And I do not remember to classify my customers EVER as dirty. Low lifes - I met lots of them.


Giotto

[QUOTE=Phordphan; 1539634]I think anybody with a brain (which may exclude several contributors here) would agree that P4P means exchanging sex for money. You could probably also include high-priced gifts as money. And that's fine. I have no problem with it. There is no point in self-delusion. One can be a prostitute without being a full-time prostitute.

But as far as I can tell, none of the "normal" girls I know have ever exchanged sex for money / gifts. They're not virgins by any means. But they don't hang out in bars nightly, they don't cruise pick-up joints on the weekends. They've never slept with a guy on the first date or had a one-night stand. They can number their boyfriends on one hand. And they all have high paying jobs and aren't looking for a sugar daddy. They wouldn't accept money if I offered it. Hell, on a relative scale a couple of them probably have more money than me. So, I submit that there is a very clear line between P4P and non-P4P. It's just some guys want to pretend the girl they give "gifts" to really isn't a hooker.[/QUOTE]Phordphan,

Besides the fact that I don't have brain (of course not). I disagree.

Some exceptions exist, as you describe. The majority is different.

Giotto

[QUOTE=Goatscrot; 1539704].

I dated a bar girl for quite a time when I first arrived. Even though she was always polite when I brought her to certain functions, events, or dinners, there was always looks, scorn, and I was judged by the company I kept. Of course that is not at all what ended the relationship, but when it did end I decided that if I was going to have another Thai girlfriend then she would have to meet certain criteria. Taking physical attractiveness and compatibility as a given, not having worked as a bar girl was number one (I say bar girl as was well stated one can never know if a gal had sex for money at some point). Having a family that was financially secure and was not a parasite looking for a "host" farang was second. Being a Uni grad, Uni student, or running a biz was third. Forth, which is the only one I a really willing to give some leeway on is a gal "having a bit." House, condo, land, etc.[/QUOTE]Goatscrot,

I don't really get all of your post, but - if you went to an official dinner / business meeting / friends party or whatever with a bar girl then you definitely have certain problems and suffer of misconceptions. Everybody with education will immediately sense whom you are with there.

The point is: If you go there with a reasonably educated MidSo girl that right works her way up the latter. Nobody will sense the above. Still - it is possible, for me likely, that her interest in you is basically comparable to the interest a P4P girls would have in you (I tried to express this politely).


Giotto

i visited som's haven on thursday and friday during the early afternoon. not a lot of staff, maybe six or seven, but it only takes one, or sometimes two. or three in dire situations. i generally take the next in the queue and finally, after decades, the law of averages swung in my favor. thursday i had niew, a rather cute little thing with decent english and long light brown hair. she was wearing sort of a catsuit, but the body looked good except for the unfortunate acreage of tattoos peeking out around her neck. god only knows what all is under there. but a bj does not require that to be revealed, and she has a cute face, so i didn't have to close my eyes and imagine (choose one or more) kate upton, miranda kerr, or a peanut butter loving dog down there. good technique, not just the old miniature oil rig method, and good stamina. i'd have repeated, except. .

friday she had already been bf'd by 4 pm. bummer. so i went back to the queue thing again and did okay, though not another niew. fon is a rather tall and big girl, but not in the fat sense: just rather broad shoulders and a face to go with them. add blonde hair and blue eyes and you have the classic nordic look. her english wasn't as good, but that is of little consequence in the bj business. we used the end room so had the little sink, so my privates got properly bathed, but again wiped with the towelette nonetheless. maybe it is a germicidal thing. or it really, really stunk. again, great technique, though a lot more of the standard sucking, probably because there was a lot more time. the previous day had been remarkably fast by my standards (my standards usually require a calendar, not a clock) , maybe because of the eye candy, maybe because it was my first for this trip. with fon it was back to the usual, 'i think i can. i think i can. ' business. if blow job marathon were an olympic sport (and i think we should start a petition) , thailand would have a gold. good attitude, rarely coming up for air, just a few hand strokes on occasion. finally, i suggested going with the hand and baby oil method, and this brought results in a rather alarmingly messy manner: her, the carpet, the sofa, and possibly chiang mai. i tipped heavily.

[QUOTE=Giotto; 1540309]Goatscrot,

I don't really get all of your post, but. If you went to an official dinner / business meeting / friends party or whatever with a bar girl then you definitely have certain problems and suffer of misconceptions. Everybody with education will immediately sense whom you are with there.

The point is: If you go there with a reasonably educated MidSo girl that right works her way up the latter. Nobody will sense the above. Still. It is possible, for me likely, that her interest in you is basically comparable to the interest a P4P girls would have in you (I tried to express this politely).

Giotto[/QUOTE]Giotto, I would not disagree with you.

Being close to 50, I would not seriously date a women under 30. 35 is all the better. Established and with her own money, so that would kind of negate similar interests to P4P gals.

Have been hitting a few go-gos the past few nights. Went to Crazy House tonight. Easily the best go-go in Bangkok in terms of looks, no other go-go is in the same ballpark but I can't say I like the setup much as they have very few comfortable seats to watch the girls from. They really need to re-arrange the whole place and put in better seating. The infamous mamasan who so many have unkind words for padded my bill with an extra drink so take a close look. Apparently, they are now doing shows upstairs beginning at 10pm but I didn't stick around for it. It's a rare show that is worth sitting through as far as I am concerned. But they seem to work in getting guys in the door. I think Spanky's has some of the worst looking girls on the planet earth but it is almost always packed with customers when this girl takes me there to visit one of her friends and the only reason I can think of are the shows. And maybe the faux spanking.

After CH my friend and I walked down Soi Cowboy and were particularly enchanted by the Coyote girls outside of Sahara. I have avoided the Coyote bars in SC like a venereal disease but we figured what the heck, the girls are cute and it will only cost a beer. Which was 200 baht as it turned out. On the menu it states that the go-go girls can be bar fined for 800 baht. Not great but these girls were looking fine so I inquire from a service girl and then a mamasan about them. The service girl says the bf for Coyote girls is 7, 000 baht. I assume I have misheard her and ask again. 7,000 baht. No wait here it says 800 baht. She replies, that is for the go-go girls, not Coyote girls. Coyote girls are 7, 000 baht just for the barfine. At that point I didn't bother to ask how much they charged. I have to wonder if anyone has ever barfined one of these girls. Lady drinks were 230 baht. It turns out that they have a handful of go-go "girls" of which half of them were clearly lady boys and the females were not much better looking.

Coyote bars have pretty much taken over Soi Cowboy and are slowly making advances in Nana Plaza. Went to Wild Thing on the 3rd floor 2 nights ago. This used to be Tokyo Nights and before that Las Vegas. Now it is primarily a Coyote bar. For some strange reason it has never been popular even back when it was LV and had a bunch of good looking women. But I would say it has hit rock bottom now. One at a minimum expects Coyote girls to be somewhat attractive but most of these girls were awful, overweight and unpleasing to the eye. But from what I understand much cheaper than those in Sahara. 1,000 baht barfine and 2, 000 for the girl. Wild Thing also gets my vote for the worst music in any go-go and that is not an easy award to win. The dj seemed to feel it is necessary to overlay every song with the same bass beat that shook the room. I left with a headache. I often wonder, as a manager is it more important to make musical choices for the dancers or for the customers. The dancers seem to have won out because the vast majority of customers I see are 40+ and I could be wrong but blasting rap and hip-hop would likely not be their first choice. Erotica on the second floor is the only go-go I know of that still plays rock music. Unfortunately that is about the best thing going on in there. Coyote girls are also in Fantasia, Play Skool and tonight Mandarin upstairs introduced a small sampling of them. Mandarin upstairs will soon be re-opening the floor above and possibly introducing some nude dancing. The bf for the Coyotes is only 600 baht but the mamasan said they might not choose to go with customers. In Play Skool the Coyotes get 23, 000 baht in salary but have to bring in 150 drinks a month and 50 baht will be deducted for every drink less than that. Most go-go bars set a quota of around 60 drinks a month. So a fair amount of pressure is on Coyote girls to get customers to buy them drinks.

Between lady boys being in 7 bars I think it is now and Coyote girls slowly creeping in you have to wonder how long Nana Plaza will be a friendly place to visit and partake. It's not hard to see that this is the future and that within five years the go-go scene will be a very different place than it is today just as today is very different for the go-go scene from five years ago.

[QUOTE=DRRonin; 1540740]HCoyote bars have pretty much taken over Soi Cowboy and are slowly making advances in Nana Plaza.

Between lady boys being in 7 bars I think it is now and Coyote girls slowly creeping in you have to wonder how long Nana Plaza will be a friendly place to visit and partake. It's not hard to see that this is the future and that within five years the go-go scene will be a very different place than it is today just as today is very different for the go-go scene from five years ago.[/QUOTE]I seem to remember hearing or reading the the "Arab," who is actually Iranian, is one by one taking over venues; and that his goal is to get rid of the "prostitution" aspect of the gogos. In other words, no more bar fines. He wants what I think of as old fashion strip clubs with booze. Anyone else hear anything about this.

I think it will be difficult to pull this off. If he temporarily succeeds someone will open a gogo, encourage bar fines and thrive; others will follow suit. Am I wrong to this way?

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch; 1540773]I seem to remember hearing or reading the the "Arab," who is actually Iranian, is one by one taking over venues; and that his goal is to get rid of the "prostitution" aspect of the gogos. In other words, no more bar fines. He wants what I think of as old fashion strip clubs with booze. Anyone else hear anything about this.

I think it will be difficult to pull this off. If he temporarily succeeds someone will open a gogo, encourage bar fines and thrive; others will follow suit. Am I wrong to this way?[/QUOTE]Near term 2 to 3 years, yes, I think the market will offset this with new (true) Go Go's opening and offering barfinable girls. Short of the political mess and violence continuing (and scaring off tourists) and losing another high season, the mega trend (recently documented by Stickman among others) is going to continue.

You've got an underlying structural change occurring.

This is more than the "Arab" doing this, it has something to do with Thailand (especially Bangkok) moving toward 1st or 1. 5 world or thereabouts status, as the clubs are having trouble getting hot girls willing to be explicitly barfinable.

At Nana parking lot after clubs close, you will sometimes see 30 to 40 agency girls getting paid and readying for transport home. Point is the clubs like Fantasia literally cannot find enough hot girls willing to be traditional go go "working girls". If they could - they would, and the manager or owner there (a Brit or Aussie) pretty much admits this. He would much rather have non agency girls. But he has no choice.

Much of this could be about losing face and less girls (sort of the way G Club girls work under a pretense of sorts) willing to presents themselves as de facto hookers when they can instead just be "Coyotes" (who dance and sell drinks). Of course for some they got the semi pro option and doing it without making it so explicit and that market will continue.

At some point if Bangkok moves toward just " old fashion strip clubs with booze" (with less and less offsets)) of course they lose a lot of the sex tourist market but maybe they figure along with mindless spending Japanese, there will emerge an unlimited number of Chinese who will just descend on Bangkok no matter what. Geographics and economics are going to work in Bangkok's favor as China becomes the #1 superpower.

Right now Bangkok is a good balance between a world class city and many (moderate pricing) P4P options yet with a practically 3rd world cost of living - and the question is how long can that last?

[QUOTE=Western787;1540781]Right now Bangkok is a good balance between a world class city and many (moderate pricing) P4P options yet with a practically 3rd world cost of living - and the question is how long can that last?[/QUOTE]Interesting way of summing it up. Of course one must also not forget its strategic location for being only a short flight away from reasonably priced monger destinations like Philippines, Indonesia, Cambodia etc.

[QUOTE=ConquerorVal;1540796]Interesting way of summing it up. Of course one must also not forget its strategic location for being only a short flight away from reasonably priced monger destinations like Philippines, Indonesia, Cambodia etc.[/QUOTE]Doom and gloomers! As long as corruption is part of Thailand its mongering scene ain't going anywhere.

A reputable guy says crazzy h. Is top dog. WOW.

Latest on R4- just a place with many pretty girls and many not so pretty. One very popular small girl said she going for the freak look. I said why, you have many customers.

I can see it if you get no customers but then I'm not a girl.

[QUOTE=Western787;1540781]At some point if Bangkok moves toward just " old fashion strip clubs with booze" (with less and less offsets)) of course they lose a lot of the sex tourist market[/QUOTE]Thank Buddha for free lancers! I wonder what percentage of the sex market gogo bars encompass.

[QUOTE=Western787;1540781]At some point if Bangkok moves toward just " old fashion strip clubs with booze" (with less and less offsets)) of course they lose a lot of the sex tourist market but maybe they figure along with mindless spending Japanese, there will emerge an unlimited number of Chinese who will just descend on Bangkok no matter what. Geographics and economics are going to work in Bangkok's favor as China becomes the #1 superpower. now Bangkok is a good balance between a world class city and many (moderate pricing) P4P options yet with a practically 3rd world cost of living - and the question is how long can that last?[/QUOTE]I would say the scales have been tipping for quite a while, but since the floods in '10 things have gone nuts.

Costs have been rising considerably. Rents are still a bit bargain as there is a glut of condos and apts on the market, but still more expensive than all but the very major and the ultra-hip US cities. Cost to buy is another story. You really can't get a good rental return here.

If you want to eat Thai food, it is still dirt cheap, although many places are 50% more than when I moved here 14 years ago. Quality non-Thai food is just about the same as it is in the US if not more. Alcohol, well even the local crap beer is expensive compared to the US. When I visit the states I get a great six pack of craft beer for about 8 bucks.

Want to go to Smith, Grass, or some of the better restaurants? You will drop close to 2k easy, more if you have drinks. Craft beer? Up to 300 baht a bottle.

But, yes, it is a world class city and we have many more benefits than we did in '99 in that regard.

P4P- Back in 99 a drink in most gogos was 80 baht. Now in many 180. Price of gals is also 100% up, more when you consider the currency moves.

Night out with the boys including dinner, drinks at gogo, lady drinks, BF (400 in Cowboy then) , ST room (300) , and tip to gal (500-1k) was around 3k baht. At that time less than 75 USD. Could easily be double that now (dinner, drinks and lady drinks 180, BF 600, gal 2000 ST, room 350). If one was just going FL then you could have a drink or two, grab a Thermae girl and be done for about 1. 5k max. 37 USD. Try pulling a Thermae girl for 500 bath now, or a BG girl. Most of the old hags there are asking and some getting 1. 5k ST.

Also agree with you on the Chinese. There will be more and more of them and it will have a huge effect on prices in all areas. We will see two grades of working girls: very high end and very low end. The "in the middle girl" who worked jobs but did not make enough to make ends meet and would head out to FL a few nights a month are a quickly dying breed. They make enough to sustain themselves now. The "scene" is no longer of that much interest to me, but it is still great to get our for an oily a few times a month.

It is really amazing how resilient this nation is. Every time there is a crisis, yellow at the airport, the Songkhran Riots, the Red Shirt takeover, the flood, the and the recent PDRC nonsense, I always think it will cause real problem for the economy, yet it really doesn't. There might be a very short bump, but Thailand roars back stronger than ever. Methinks one of the reasons it that they always run at near full employment. Won't get into the reasons for that.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch; 1540773]I seem to remember hearing or reading the the "Arab," who is actually Iranian, is one by one taking over venues; and that his goal is to get rid of the "prostitution" aspect of the gogos. In other words, no more bar fines. He wants what I think of as old fashion strip clubs with booze. Anyone else hear anything about this.

I think it will be difficult to pull this off. If he temporarily succeeds someone will open a gogo, encourage bar fines and thrive; others will follow suit. Am I wrong to this way?[/QUOTE]I don't know if anyone other than The Arab understands his business model. There were a handful of guys in Sahara but none of them were buying drinks for the Coyote girls and people have told me that his bars are usually close to empty. Yet Coyote girls are not cheap so how can he be making money one wonders. I doubt if it is a religious jihad of sorts unless the Ayatollah has given him orders to clean up sin city. Others have mentioned the possibility that he is using the bars to launder money but from what illegal activity nobody seems to say. It is all very strange. To some degree Crazy House is the gogo that offsets this. Great looking girls and ready to go out the door with you in a heartbeat (and often back from their duties in two heartbeats) and the place is packed every time I go so I assume they are making money. How they are able to get so many good looking girls while most of the go-gos struggle to have just a few is a mystery. I think they are paying higher salaries to the girls than the other bars are. So far whatever they are doing is working. Even when the "mob" was practically on their doorstep until this past week and guys had to walk through them to get to the short time hotel, the place was still doing great business. So the old model still works fine as long as you can find the girls but finding the right girls isn't easy anymore it seems.

[QUOTE=DRRonin; 1540740]After CH my friend and I walked down Soi Cowboy and were particularly enchanted by the Coyote girls outside of Sahara. I have avoided the Coyote bars in SC like a venereal disease but we figured what the heck, the girls are cute and it will only cost a beer. Which was 200 baht as it turned out. On the menu it states that the go-go girls can be bar fined for 800 baht. Not great but these girls were looking fine so I inquire from a service girl and then a mamasan about them. The service girl says the bf for Coyote girls is 7, 000 baht. I assume I have misheard her and ask again. 7,000 baht. No wait here it says 800 baht. She replies, that is for the go-go girls, not Coyote girls. Coyote girls are 7, 000 baht just for the barfine. At that point I didn't bother to ask how much they charged. I have to wonder if anyone has ever barfined one of these girls. Lady drinks were 230 baht. It turns out that they have a handful of go-go "girls" of which half of them were clearly lady boys and the females were not much better looking.

Coyote bars have pretty much taken over Soi Cowboy and are slowly making advances in Nana Plaza. Went to Wild Thing on the 3rd floor 2 nights ago. This used to be Tokyo Nights and before that Las Vegas. Now it is primarily a Coyote bar. For some strange reason it has never been popular even back when it was LV and had a bunch of good looking women. But I would say it has hit rock bottom now. One at a minimum expects Coyote girls to be somewhat attractive but most of these girls were awful, overweight and unpleasing to the eye. But from what I understand much cheaper than those in Sahara. 1,000 baht barfine and 2, 000 for the girl. Wild Thing also gets my vote for the worst music in any go-go and that is not an easy award to win. The dj seemed to feel it is necessary to overlay every song with the same bass beat that shook the room. I left with a headache. I often wonder, as a manager is it more important to make musical choices for the dancers or for the customers. The dancers seem to have won out because the vast majority of customers I see are 40+ and I could be wrong but blasting rap and hip-hop would likely not be their first choice. Erotica on the second floor is the only go-go I know of that still plays rock music. Unfortunately that is about the best thing going on in there. Coyote girls are also in Fantasia, Play Skool and tonight Mandarin upstairs introduced a small sampling of them. Mandarin upstairs will soon be re-opening the floor above and possibly introducing some nude dancing. The bf for the Coyotes is only 600 baht but the mamasan said they might not choose to go with customers. In Play Skool the Coyotes get 23, 000 baht in salary but have to bring in 150 drinks a month and 50 baht will be deducted for every drink less than that. Most go-go bars set a quota of around 60 drinks a month. So a fair amount of pressure is on Coyote girls to get customers to buy them drinks.

Between lady boys being in 7 bars I think it is now and Coyote girls slowly creeping in you have to wonder how long Nana Plaza will be a friendly place to visit and partake. It's not hard to see that this is the future and that within five years the go-go scene will be a very different place than it is today just as today is very different for the go-go scene from five years ago.[/QUOTE]"Turn out the lights the party's over."

23k baht for a Coyote dancer? Unreal. And West is correct, with more and more Chinese and other Asians coming, it will continue to change, and not for the better.

What am I missing. I hardly notice any change in 10 years. Mp prices same same. Agogo 10 years ago bf 600 today its still 600. 50 baht increase in hotel, big whoop. Girls still accept 2k short time. Agogo girls bad value 10 years ago and are still bad value today. LOL.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot; 1540824]"Turn out the lights the party's over."

[/QUOTE]The ballbusters will probably eventually turn Bangkok into Salt Lake City, Utah, but that will take time, but meanwhile one can analogize the situation to living in the Playboy Mansion but only AFTER Huge Heffner had to cut party expenses down a bit due to Playboy's financial difficulties a decade or two back.

[QUOTE=DRRonin;1540823]I don't know if anyone other than The Arab understands his business model. There were a handful of guys in Sahara but none of them were buying drinks for the Coyote girls and people have told me that his bars are usually close to empty. Yet Coyote girls are not cheap so how can he be making money one wonders. I doubt if it is a religious jihad of sorts unless the Ayatollah has given him orders to clean up sin city. Others have mentioned the possibility that he is using the bars to launder money but from what illegal activity nobody seems to say. It is all very strange.[/QUOTE]I was told a while back that the Arab was buying up Soi Cowboy clubs because he wants to bulldoze the lot and build a condo or shopping mall. I imagine he would need to have some backers behind him. Not sure that he would ever succeed or that the rumour is true, it is Bangkok after all.

[QUOTE=Western787;1540908]The ballbusters will probably eventually turn Bangkok into Salt Lake City, Utah, but that will take time, but meanwhile one can analogize the situation to living in the Playboy Mansion but only AFTER Huge Heffner had to cut party expenses down a bit due to Playboy's financial difficulties a decade or two back.[/QUOTE]Hehe Salt Lake City (slc) brings back great memories from the winter olympics in 2002. Not the easiest place on earth to score pussy but I believe this rare (and good) event had brought in some easy girls into a rather mormonic environment. No wonder I got some evil eyes balling from locals (maby they were just envious). Rather OT but still worth mentioning.

"The things you take for granted, someone else is praying for." Grace Pamer.

Just focusing on one aspect of the wider P4P scene in Bangkok, lets assume an average guy in New York City was magically able to be transported to the Huay Hwang subway stop in Ratchada, and when he walks up the stairs into the early evening darkness and he first sees the Enter the Night type neon signs and then walks to the Soapy palaces where 100's of girls await him, the experience is so extreme, so intense, and so out of this world, one might compare it to a real life version of the fictional (Back to the Future 2) Marty McFly's visit to the Hill Valley 30 years into the future.

Even when one describes Ratchada to someone in the west who has never traveled to southeast Asia, they often find it very difficult to believe.

One must never get too complacent about Bangkok.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot; 1540824]"Turn out the lights the party's over."

23k baht for a Coyote dancer? Unreal. And West is correct, with more and more Chinese and other Asians coming, it will continue to change, and not for the better.[/QUOTE]Monthly salary and with mandatory sales targets. It seem reasonable, e. G. A cook can make 20K with overtime in Pattaya. Here the girls wages are posted outside many gogo bars.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot; 1540822]Also agree with you on the Chinese. There will be more and more of them and it will have a huge effect on prices in all areas. We will see two grades of working girls: very high end and very low end. The "in the middle girl" who worked jobs but did not make enough to make ends meet and would head out to FL a few nights a month are a quickly dying breed. They make enough to sustain themselves now. The "scene" is no longer of that much interest to me, but it is still great to get our for an oily a few times a month.

It is really amazing how resilient this nation is. Every time there is a crisis, yellow at the airport, the Songkhran Riots, the Red Shirt takeover, the flood, the and the recent PDRC nonsense, I always think it will cause real problem for the economy, yet it really doesn't. There might be a very short bump, but Thailand roars back stronger than ever. Methinks one of the reasons it that they always run at near full employment. Won't get into the reasons for that.[/QUOTE]Fully agree. Who sees differently should get new glasses.

[QUOTE=El Flaco;1540955]Fully agree. Who sees differently should get new glasses.[/QUOTE]Angie at Cherry massage was a gorgeous girl who previously worked a regular job. She probably hasn't t lasted as not really suited to a porn style shop. Bai Fern at Yorimichi previously had a regular job and did not last at Yorimichi. Also had uni studies.

There still exist girls trying out being a hooker but not always suited to it.

I do agree we are seeing much less part time hookers retaining their normal job than 15 years ago, however still an option to freelance for extra cash.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot; 1540824]"Turn out the lights the party's over."

23k baht for a Coyote dancer? Unreal. And West is correct, with more and more Chinese and other Asians coming, it will continue to change, and not for the better.[/QUOTE]He clearly stated that 23k was the monthly salary

[QUOTE=Syzygies; 1540982]Angie at Cherry massage was a gorgeous girl who previously worked a regular job. She probably hasn't t lasted as not really suited to a porn style shop. Bai Fern at Yorimichi previously had a regular job and did not last at Yorimichi. Also had uni studies.

There still exist girls trying out being a hooker but not always suited to it.

I do agree we are seeing much less part time hookers retaining their normal job than 15 years ago, however still an option to freelance for extra cash.[/QUOTE]How do you know she's completely out of the business?

Its no secret in Bangkok that gorgeous looking girls who try out the business are routinely being picked off by wealthy players or guys just dumping cash, and this goes across different venues with the owners themselves voicing this same complaint. Yes, it could be a same age range legit boyfriend who shows up, but IMHO once these girls taste the big money I doubt many just return to normal jobs.

[QUOTE=Hiihii;1540862]What am I missing. I hardly notice any change in 10 years. Mp prices same same. Agogo 10 years ago bf 600 today its still 600. 50 baht increase in hotel, big whoop. Girls still accept 2k short time. Agogo girls bad value 10 years ago and are still bad value today. LOL.[/QUOTE]The bread and butter of the industry has not changed at all. Agogo girls still prance on stage in bikinis or nothing-same as 10 years ago. MPs operate the same. Not much innovation in the streetwalker mode of operation.

Communications have improved but thais not particular to prostitutes.

CH is the best 2nd tier bar is what DR R meant to say.

1. Their nudes are way better than their non-nude- an anomoly.

2. CH nudes are stunners compared to those found at Spunkies, Susie Wings, and Dollhouse.

3. CH may be number 1 as far as value goes. Ogling costs only 90 baht.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1541100]How do you know she's completely out of the business?

Its no secret in Bangkok that gorgeous looking girls who try out the business are routinely being picked off by wealthy players or guys just dumping cash, and this goes across different venues with the owners themselves voicing this same complaint. Yes, it could be a same age range legit boyfriend who shows up, but IMHO once these girls taste the big money I doubt many just return to normal jobs.[/QUOTE]For the most part I agree with you. Once they get a load of that money, it is intoxicating. I have met some that realize they can't do it forever and have traded the big money for something a bit more secure, but they are in the minority. Nothing sadder than an old P4P gal.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1541152]. Nothing sadder than an old P4P gal.[/QUOTE]True, but some of those Beer Garden regs don't seem to do all that bad.

[QUOTE=Western787;1541161]True, but some of those Beer Garden regs don't seem to do all that bad.[/QUOTE]Somebody's paying them, or else they would not be there.

[QUOTE=Mr Enternational;1541188]Somebody's paying them, or else they would not be there.[/QUOTE]Don't know what's more depressing, the regular gals or the regular clientele. Gotten to be a club I don't want to be a member of. Old alcoholics abound.

[QUOTE=Mr Enternational;1541188]Somebody's paying them, or else they would not be there.[/QUOTE]Some (lets guess 50%) may not have many choices. They often have almost zero NPL type street appeal, or are too old for Thermae, and not hot enough to even work in regular bars. Not sure if some even get customers more than once a week. Now that said, there are many exceptions, a range girls in fact and some, do seem to do pretty well.

While lot of regs are avg to below avg and mostly 30 plus, some are sort of hot, example "Mo" tall and slender and pretty , and an exotic looking mix of perhaps Chinese and Thai, guessing low 30s, and she sits on the extreme left side three fourths of the way down.

Then random hotties even as young early 20's (not regs per se) sometimes drop by, and Beer Garden which goes all day permits them to get an early evening customer instead of waiting around until Thermae gets going. I've seen some fairly hot girls just rotate between Thermae, Beer Garden and NPL, but many like Moe I don't think want to go on the streets or have Japanese guys inspecting them like side of beef.. And of course Gulliver's has priced itself out the market with the same 8 or 9 regs hanging out over there all the time, a few very hot, but seem to mostly play pool and get few customers.

Then at BG you also get the average to slightly hot girls dropping by after their real jobs. Usually you think they are with their friends, but 90% of the time they are alone just trying to pick up some extra dollars, and some aren't bad either.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1541152]For the most part I agree with you. Once they get a load of that money, it is intoxicating. I have met some that realize they can't do it forever and have traded the big money for something a bit more secure, but they are in the minority. Nothing sadder than an old P4P gal.[/QUOTE]The G club girls typically make a base around 1500 bahts per shift, and the Coyote Go Go's about 900, and regular Go Gos approx 600. Plus more on lady drinks (minus any quota related penalities) but when you add it all up .its not going to allow them to live the high life. So it must be very intoxicating when a hottie realizes she can make 8 to 10 times that in a month, and she can now go into Terminal 21 and spend like she's a Hi So. The Coyote working Fantasia I mentioned a number of weeks back went from a "no barfine" girl to the most over the top "please please take me" girl in a matter of 2 to 3 weeks, and this girl is hot enough to easily make 100k to 200k a month, long long legs and very very sexy dancing style, basically G club level.

[QUOTE=Hiihii; 1541122]CH is the best 2nd tier bar is what DR R meant to say.

1. Their nudes are way better than their non-nude- an anomoly.

2. CH nudes are stunners compared to those found at Spunkies, Susie wings, and Dollhouse.

3. Ch may be number 1 as far as value goes. Ogling costs only 90 baht.[/QUOTE]The non-nude dancers, either have scars, stretch marks etc. To hide or not good tits, etc. The pussy is still on display so that means there is something else needs hiding.

The girls are paid a higher salary. This helps attract better looking girls. Some are selling a lot of drinks.

Value it is. Best place for a look. Not necessarily best place to BF a girl. Some have very bad personalities, e. G. #94 and #91.

I BFed 2 girls. One a newbie who was quite okay for a newbie and improving, and another with big tits, who was barely a pass on the bed. Just fuckable.

My advice, is go for a look, but most likely screw a girl from elsewhere, unless manage to find one of the sweeter girls (not many).

[QUOTE=Western787;1541322]The G club girls typically make a base around 1500 bahts per shift, and the Coyote Go Go's about 900, and regular Go Gos approx 600. Plus more on lady drinks (minus any quota related penalities) but when you add it all up .its not going to allow them to live the high life. So it must be very intoxicating when a hottie realizes she can make 8 to 10 times that in a month, and she can now go into Terminal 21 and spend like she's a Hi So. The Coyote working Fantasia I mentioned a number of weeks back went from a "no barfine" girl to the most over the top "please please take me" girl in a matter of 2 to 3 weeks, and this girl is hot enough to easily make 100k to 200k a month, long long legs and very very sexy dancing style, basically G club level.[/QUOTE]You losing me again. I've noticed the hot girls rarely do the take me take me thing. They usually just wait till they are called-sexy dancing not required.

I wonder what you see as hot. Can you give more example of R4 girls you think is hot.

The money is definately intoxicating but the girl does have to deal with being a sex object. Not many girls have this skill set over a long period of time. Burn out or just getting old is not easy to handle.

[QUOTE=Western787;1541322]The G club girls typically make a base around 1500 bahts per shift, and the Coyote Go Go's about 900, and regular Go Gos approx 600. Plus more on lady drinks (minus any quota related penalities) but when you add it all up .its not going to allow them to live the high life. So it must be very intoxicating when a hottie realizes she can make 8 to 10 times that in a month, and she can now go into Terminal 21 and spend like she's a Hi So. The Coyote working Fantasia I mentioned a number of weeks back went from a "no barfine" girl to the most over the top "please please take me" girl in a matter of 2 to 3 weeks, and this girl is hot enough to easily make 100k to 200k a month, long long legs and very very sexy dancing style, basically G club level.[/QUOTE]A couple of months back I was visiting G Club "Pimp" and picked up a girl willing to join me for some fun towards the clubs closing time. She was pretty consistent she made 2k per shift as her base salary. Maby the pimp girls have salary according to how good they are in making customers spend top dollars? She stated she normaly earned around 3K (incl tip and drinks) and did from 10 to 20 shifts per month. As there for sure are many beauties in this location bare in mind they have no preassure from the managment to go with customers whatsoever. It is up to them girls if they want or not and for those interested in pricenegotiations upfront I am sure you can do that but probably not a good sign starting to haggle for 3 or 4K bhat compensation if you spend like 10. 20k in the club. In my case there was no such thing but ofcourse she got her compensation / gift the morning after (don't remember if it was 3, 4 or 5k I gave her but for good LT play I never go below 3).

[QUOTE=DRRonin;1540740]Have been hitting a few go-gos the past few nights.[/QUOTE]Superb report!

Thanks much for taking the time to post.

Bunky

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch; 1540773]I seem to remember hearing or reading the the "Arab," who is actually Iranian, is one by one taking over venues; and that his goal is to get rid of the "prostitution" aspect of the gogos. In other words, no more bar fines. He wants what I think of as old fashion strip clubs with booze. Anyone else hear anything about this.

I think it will be difficult to pull this off. If he temporarily succeeds someone will open a gogo, encourage bar fines and thrive; others will follow suit. Am I wrong to this way?[/QUOTE]The Arabs bars still have hookers but just not all of the girls. I don't see evidence of getting rid of prostitution.

I heard the bars don't have to make money as used for laundering. This came from someone quite senior working in cowboy for many years, like a bar manager. We did not discuss the Arab's other business. I think the story makes sense even if we can't be sure it's true, but certainly looks like many of his bars are not busy. Cowboy 2 maybe doing better than some of the others.

[QUOTE=Syzygies; 1541431]The Arabs bars still have hookers but just not all of the girls. I don't see evidence of getting rid of prostitution.

I heard the bars don't have to make money as used for laundering. This came from someone quite senior working in cowboy for many years, like a bar manager. We did not discuss the Arab's other business. I think the story makes sense even if we can't be sure it's true, but certainly looks like many of his bars are not busy. Cowboy 2 maybe doing better than some of the others.[/QUOTE]I've also heard rumors about money laundering. Could be true. Could be a story that started because of his ethnicity.

Did you notice today's Stuckman Weekly touted the coyotes claiming they may save the gogo bar business. Or should we start calling them coyote bars? Part of his reasoning is coyotes are more attractive which will be more pleasing to ladies, couples and casual tourists who want to just gawk at the spectacle. I would hardly describe that as saving the business. That would be (is) a new business model, catering to a different market segment. Are there dwindling numbers of mongers shopping in the gogos? In December my hotel room looked down on NEP. It did not look very busy, even on Fridays and Saturdays. If this is the case, might a smaller number of bars follow the old model while other bars will emerge featuring coyotes for customers with no interest in bar fining the ladies?

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch; 1541474]I've also heard rumors about money laundering. Could be true. Could be a story that started because of his ethnicity.

Did you notice today's Stuckman Weekly touted the coyotes claiming they may save the gogo bar business. Or should we start calling them coyote bars? Part of his reasoning is coyotes are more attractive which will be more pleasing to ladies, couples and casual tourists who want to just gawk at the spectacle. I would hardly describe that as saving the business. That would be (is) a new business model, catering to a different market segment. Are there dwindling numbers of mongers shopping in the gogos? In December my hotel room looked down on NEP. It did not look very busy, even on Fridays and Saturdays. If this is the case, might a smaller number of bars follow the old model while other bars will emerge featuring coyotes for customers with no interest in bar fining the ladies?[/QUOTE]Coyotes faces are no better or worse on avg than any other groups of girls. Few are pretty most are not!

What stands out is a lot of coyotes are stick thin-very unattractive seeing a stick in a DALLAS cowboys cheerleader type outfit with way too much make-up on.

Nana coyotes have no chance-guys don't happen to walk by. Guys who go to Nana know where they are going.

[quote=paul kausch; 1541474]i've also heard rumors about money laundering. could be true. could be a story that started because of his ethnicity.

did you notice today's stuckman weekly touted the coyotes claiming they may save the gogo bar business. or should we start calling them coyote bars? part of his reasoning is coyotes are more attractive which will be more pleasing to ladies, couples and casual tourists who want to just gawk at the spectacle. i would hardly describe that as saving the business. that would be (is) a new business model, catering to a different market segment. are there dwindling numbers of mongers shopping in the gogos? in december my hotel room looked down on nep. it did not look very busy, even on fridays and saturdays. if this is the case, might a smaller number of bars follow the old model while other bars will emerge featuring coyotes for customers with no interest in bar fining the ladies?[/quote]stickman in my opinion has a strange and confused agenda. very often he is somewhat rep001hing and scornful with regard to the guys who visit thailand for a vacation which includes intimate fraternization with the local females (stickman refers to these mongers as "naughty boys"). he often gives the impression that he would prefer if thailand were free of these unwanted vacationers and that thailand would be a far better place without such seedy fellows.

perhaps he has a point but one wonders who actually makes up the readership demographic of his blog / website. judging from the girly photos and call girl adverts which adorn his site, it seems to me that it is the very same naughty boys (like myself) that make up the bulk of his readership. the holier than thou attitude which in my opinion stickman projects with regard to those mongers that visit thailand certainly seems to color his opinion with regard to gogo bars and the influx of agency girls (coyotes) that are now sadly becoming an all too regular feature of the scene in bangkok and elsewhere.

sure he is correct that the general thai population is becoming a little more wealthy generally speaking and that women (from the poorer parts of the country) now have some more options in life other than earning their living with their legs spread and that is indeed a good thing. however, if with prices continuously rising and with a lack of good quality girls entering the industry, it seems to me that it is only a matter of time before thailand becomes a far less popular place for guys to visit. i believe that this is already beginning to happen. what with political instability and rising prices, thailand is becoming a far less attractive place for everyone (including mongers) to visit. i notice that stickman is preparing (yet again) to leave thailand. i for one will not be sad to see him go. hopefully this will also mean an end to his hypocritical blog which appears to condemn the same individuals that regularly read said website and consequently put money in his pocket.

congratulations on 1000+ posts by the way.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch; 1541474]I've also heard rumors about money laundering. Could be true. Could be a story that started because of his ethnicity.

Did you notice today's Stuckman Weekly touted the coyotes claiming they may save the gogo bar business. Or should we start calling them coyote bars? Part of his reasoning is coyotes are more attractive which will be more pleasing to ladies, couples and casual tourists who want to just gawk at the spectacle. I would hardly describe that as saving the business. That would be (is) a new business model, catering to a different market segment. Are there dwindling numbers of mongers shopping in the gogos? In December my hotel room looked down on NEP. It did not look very busy, even on Fridays and Saturdays. If this is the case, might a smaller number of bars follow the old model while other bars will emerge featuring coyotes for customers with no interest in bar fining the ladies?[/QUOTE]I am always amazed at how many tourist couples want to see the smoking pussy shows etc. Coyote seems a bit boring and available in other locations.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch; 1541474]I've also heard rumors about money laundering. Could be true. Could be a story that started because of his ethnicity.

Did you notice today's Stuckman Weekly touted the coyotes claiming they may save the gogo bar business. Or should we start calling them coyote bars? Part of his reasoning is coyotes are more attractive which will be more pleasing to ladies, couples and casual tourists who want to just gawk at the spectacle. I would hardly describe that as saving the business. That would be (is) a new business model, catering to a different market segment. Are there dwindling numbers of mongers shopping in the gogos? In December my hotel room looked down on NEP. It did not look very busy, even on Fridays and Saturdays. If this is the case, might a smaller number of bars follow the old model while other bars will emerge featuring coyotes for customers with no interest in bar fining the ladies?[/QUOTE]I still read Stickman however he has a bias.

Coyote bars are not popular at all. They're tourist traps. Look at the most popular bars in Nana and SC. They are not coyote bars.

Stickman hopes to see the bar industry die since he can no longer participate in it. He can barely hide his glee whenever something negative happens in the industry.

One week it's Patpong 2 being the best bar area in the city, the next some paid blurb for an agency for 'classy escorts', the next how coyotes saved the bars. I had to laugh when in his latest article he puts a photo of an old gogo dancer next to one of a young coyote dancer and asks us to guess which is which. No agenda there. How about putting a photo of a gogo dancer that gets 3 barfines a night against a coyote dancer that can't meet her drinks quota for the month?

[QUOTE=Hiihii; 1541373]You losing me again. I've noticed the hot girls rarely do the take me take me thing. They usually just wait till they are called-sexy dancing not required.

I wonder what you see as hot. Can you give more example of R4 girls you think is hot.

The money is definately intoxicating but the girl does have to deal with being a sex object. Not many girls have this skill set over a long period of time. Burn out or just getting old is not easy to handle.[/QUOTE]I'm losing you? LOL. The "you take me?" girls either in R4 or elsewhere may skip certain customers, maybe they sense customers that have difficult personalities, somebody who is a real downer. These girls have a 6th sense. It can also depend on how many customers are in there, or perhaps the guy has a rep in the club as taking girls to amazingly bottom barrel cheap hotels, and the girl doesn't want to be further depressed by going to a dump. Anytime I have gotten the late night walk up and say "you take me?" true its not the hottest girls per se, but they can be cute. However my experience in Fantasia in regard to the "Coyote" is exactly as described it. Now there were hardly anyone in the club, but yes the girl was begging to be taken, almost in a frenetic way, perhaps she had a debt, who knows. But she obviously needed some major bucks, Now of course if you just handed her 3k for nothing, she'd be happy, so no one is claiming its about the sex.

These girls generally do not want to be treated like hookers. Posters like "Sir Lancelot" (one of his reports i see now on posts of distinction) seem to have a positive attitude and treat girls well, and probably put out good vibes and the girls respond to that. If someone is always having negative club experiences and instincitively tagging all the girls (minus a few alleged Superstars") as ugly or below standard, it becomes self reinforcing as the girls pick up the vibe.

While it is true some hotties don't last, and the extreme over the top drop dead gorgeous ones often get picked off, anyone can dump money on them near term OTC to get their attention, and for some customers this can even continue after they quit.

Rainbow 4 did get hit hard by a busted high season like other clubs, but there are hot girls there. 007 is hot, #132 the newer one is fairly hot and and previous #132 though only there for less than a month in late Nov and early December, ( 19 years old slender, tall, dirty blonde hair swept back in a ponytail. Delicate facial features, amazing DFK type, though otherwise very shy, but just couldn't handle the business) The way YOU define R4 is - a couple of "superstars" and then a bunch of subparl girls, That's not very accurate. By your own definition "the market determines Superstars" but if that is true then the previously mentioned #15 is a superstar because (except for a lull period) has generally had very high barfine rates. Also a dancer who doesn't get many barfines but nonethelss is hot, is on the extreme right side, very end, slender, tall 170 cm at least. long legs, nice ass, very light skin brunnette with almost a western look, although appears stuck up (nose in the air sort of) , if she glanced down more a potential customers. she get more barfines.. Another very hot girl on the left side, very very cute, shorter 155 cm?, wears her hair (light brn) in a bun often times, great figure, great figure, nice ass and nice tits, some TATS, very outgoing, very pretty face always talking to everyone.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1541605]I'm losing you? LOL. The "you take me?" girls either in R4 or elsewhere may skip certain customers, maybe they sense customers that have difficult personalities, somebody who is a real downer. These girls have a 6th sense. It can also depend on how many customers are in there, or perhaps the guy has a rep in the club as taking girls to amazingly bottom barrel cheap hotels, and the girl doesn't want to be further depressed by going to a dump. Anytime I have gotten the late night walk up and say "you take me?" true its not the hottest girls per se, but they can be cute. However my experience in Fantasia in regard to the "Coyote" is exactly as described it. Now there were hardly anyone in the club, but yes the girl was begging to be taken, almost in a frenetic way, perhaps she had a debt, who knows. But she obviously needed some major bucks, Now of course if you just handed her 3k for nothing, she'd be happy, so no one is claiming its about the sex.

These girls generally do not want to be treated like hookers. Posters like "Sir Lancelot" (one of his reports I see now on posts of distinction) seem to have a positive attitude and treat girls well, and probably put out good vibes and the girls respond to that. If someone is always having negative club experiences and instincitively tagging all the girls (minus a few alleged Superstars") as ugly or below standard, it becomes self reinforcing as the girls pick up the vibe.

While it is true some hotties don't last, and the extreme over the top drop dead gorgeous ones often get picked off, anyone can dump money on them near term OTC to get their attention, and for some customers this can even continue after they quit.

Rainbow 4 did get hit hard by a busted high season like other clubs, but there are hot girls there. 007 is hot, #132 the newer one is fairly hot and and previous #132 though only there for less than a month in late Nov and early December, (19 years old slender, tall, dirty blonde hair swept back in a ponytail. Delicate facial features, amazing DFK type, though otherwise very shy, but just couldn't handle the business) The way YOU define R4 is. A couple of "superstars" and then a bunch of subparl girls, That's not very accurate. By your own definition "the market determines Superstars" but if that is true then the previously mentioned #15 is a superstar because (except for a lull period) has generally had very high barfine rates. Also a dancer who doesn't get many barfines but nonethelss is hot, is on the extreme right side, very end, slender, tall 170 cm at least. Long legs, nice ass, very light skin brunnette with almost a western look, although appears stuck up (nose in the air sort of) , if she glanced down more a potential customers. She get more barfines. Another very hot girl on the left side, very very cute, shorter 155 cm, wears her hair (light brn) in a bun often times, great figure, great figure, nice ass and nice tits, some TATS, very outgoing, very pretty face always talking to everyone.[/QUOTE]My analysis of Rainbow 4. MegasupeRstar number 4 and the rest. The rest including a few pretty face while the majority are not. All equallly not all that desireable-atleast not 100$ worth of desireable.ness.

Something I notice recently is all kinds of girls getting barfined. Meaning-just a lot of plain nois, nits, and nats strutting their stuff.

R2 AND R1 has better faces than R4.

Guys!

Just back from 2 weeks in BKK, my first solo escapade for a few years. Dumped the long termer due to high maintenance costs.

Spent most nights at Cowboy due to the superior looking ladies and better vibe than Nana. Quite surprised and pleased with the full nude dancing, and that they remain nude when visiting my table. But really, do the chubbies have to be nude?

What is up with the drink prices at SC? Are you freakin' kidding me, LD's 200baht and 155ish for my own! That is theft by any standard. Many of the ladies made quite sure I knew the price of a LD, even after I had offered it, obviously had some unhappy dudes when the bill was presented.

Why am I not surprised that many bars are empty, you need talent to open wallets at those prices.

Barfines seem a little higher but ST, LT has not moved. Their opening gambit has moved up but they seem easy to negotiate down to the 1. 5 to 2. 5 range. Performance in the room was good to excellent with only one non performer over the 2 week period. Everything I wanted was on the table, never enquired re A levels.

Regarding regular massage places, business is way down and staff are unusually aggressive, demanding extras. The little sub soi opposite Fortuna Hotel in soi5 is chocka full of massage shops now. My usual haunt down there is a place called Baan Thai. They have lost their best staff to Korea where they are earning 60k a month without offering extras. The boss was suicidal. Across the lane is another shop with a blue uniform, was enticed in there by a big titted wench. Realised the game when no change of clothes was required and no towel offered. She kept letting her hair brush across the cluster and then the occasional tongue running down the underside of the shaft. Naturally I was keen for some relief. 2.5 for CBJ was her response! After I stopped laughing, we agreed on 1k BBBJTC. No come in mouth she said, ok I go I said, ok cim. For some reason I had a huge load which I duly delivered, to her credit she did a very good job and carried on during delivery, she then flew to the bathroom, quite funny too watch. She laughed about it later and wanted to come to my room after work, had to politely decline due to the size of her rump and thighs.

Must credit the Hilary chain of bars for many enjoyable afternoons playing pool to some good sounds and company.

Off to the delights of AC on my next trip mid year, be interesting to compare.

Tuck

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch; 1541474]I've also heard rumors about money laundering. Could be true. Could be a story that started because of his ethnicity.

Did you notice today's Stuckman Weekly touted the coyotes claiming they may save the gogo bar business. Or should we start calling them coyote bars? Part of his reasoning is coyotes are more attractive which will be more pleasing to ladies, couples and casual tourists who want to just gawk at the spectacle. I would hardly describe that as saving the business. That would be (is) a new business model, catering to a different market segment. Are there dwindling numbers of mongers shopping in the gogos? In December my hotel room looked down on NEP. It did not look very busy, even on Fridays and Saturdays. If this is the case, might a smaller number of bars follow the old model while other bars will emerge featuring coyotes for customers with no interest in bar fining the ladies?[/QUOTE]This may be one time people may want to thank the overpayers, high rollers, reckless spenders, or just horny bastards carrying a lot of cash and willing to toss it away, because THOSE will be the guys that (initially) help Coyotes transition into working girl status by paying them 5k plus to entice them. As said before, once they get a taste of the big money, few will go back. Now I am not sure what percentage of girls will make the jump, but I believe it will be many. But many will do it in stealth form to keep up the pretense of just being Coyotes to keep face, and then probably add part time working girl work elsewhere.

You might for example be be seeing some future Thermae girls among these new Coyotes.

By the way sometimes Stickman really nails it. This from his Nov 10, 2013 column "If you fancy any of the coyote girls who congregate outside The Arab's bars in Soi Cowboy acting as hello girls, but don't care to go inside due to the cost of drinks (standard drinks are now 200 baht in The Arab bars) and reports of overzeallous security staff, then you may have another option. Strong rumours have it that there will be a flock of girls who once worked for The Arab soon to be found in Nana Plaza as at least one agency reports some girls are refusing to work for The Arab. The same agency has been contacted by a bar group in Nana so put one and one together."

Sure enough not many weeks later you started to see crowds (25 to 30 plus girls) mostly leggy 18 and 19 and 20 year olds or so half way up the Nana Parking Lot late at night (usually 1/2 hour after closing) waiting in line for the agency woman to give them their shift pay (it actually looked like chickens being fed as they were cackling so much). So they definitely need the bahts, that's for certain.

[QUOTE=Friar Tuck; 1541655]Guys!

J.

Regarding regular massage places, business is way down and staff are unusually aggressive, demanding extras. The little sub soi opposite Fortuna Hotel in soi5 is chocka full of massage shops now.

Must credit the Hilary chain of bars for many enjoyable afternoons playing pool to some good sounds and company.

Off to the delights of AC on my next trip mid year, be interesting to compare.

Tuck[/QUOTE]Same at Soil 11 in regard to massage shops.

Entering from Soi 11 (the only entrance in fact) into Villa Market, then leaving the store via the regular exit, you will usually be accosted by dozens of massage girls, some very sleazy, but some quite cute, since the (mandatory and only) exit requires you to run past either 6 plus shops east bound (toward Soil 13) OR the normal way, back to Soi 11 and 6 more shops west bound. Minus a couple of LB's I think in total approx 50 to 60 girls work just in those very small shops, and they get to give their best sales pitch to every Farang that happens to shop at Villa Market..

There is no escape and they all know you probably just overpaid at Villa for your favorite Farang food and therefore have cash.

As for HIllary Clubs, Hillary 3 and Hillary 1 in Nana are fantastic. Other two clubs OK too.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1541676]Same at Soil 11 in regard to massage shops.

Entering the only entrance from Soi 11 into Villa Market, then leaving the store. You will usually be accosted by dozens of massage girls, some very sleazy, but some quite cute, since the (mandatory and only) exit requires you to run past either 6 plus shops east bound (toward Soil 13) OR the normal way, back to Soil 11 and 6 more shops west bound. Minus a couple of LB's I think approx 50 ti 80 women work just in those shops, and they get to give their best sales pitch to Farangs just picking up groceries.

There is no escape and they all know you probably just overpaid at Villa for your Farang food.

As for HIllary Clubs, Hillary 3 and Hillary 1 in Nana are fantastic[/QUOTE]I wish some of these girls were cute! I think due to looks these wimmin are targeting arabs, pakis and indians.

Meant to say Hillary 4 and Hillary 1

So I spotted 132atR4. Very ok face. Very thin. Out of, I'm guessing, over 1, 000 girls spread out at Bacc, R2, 1, and 4 Mr W points out the two thinnest girls of all. LOL. Borderline anorexic type bodies.

While Stickman is certainly an expert on Bangkok, and while I enjoy reading Stickman's columns and he often times "nails it" as I mentioned below on his predictions, among other things I have to disagree him calling Beergarden a "House of Horrors" as he did Nov 17th. 2013 column. You can sometimes find reasonably decent girls in Beer Garden if you go random days, and different times of the day. Its just not accurate to label it a House of Horrors.

[QUOTE=Western787;1541912]While Stickman is certainly an expert on Bangkok, and while I enjoy reading Stickman's columns and he often times "nails it" as I mentioned below on his predictions, among other things I have to disagree him calling Beergarden a "House of Horrors" as he did Nov 17th. 2013 column. You can sometimes find reasonably decent girls in Beer Garden if you go random days, and different times of the day. Its just not accurate to label it a House of Horrors.[/QUOTE]I'm not expert on Beergarden. But I know concepts. Beergarden attracts low quality customers therefore must be full of low quality kind of girls.

[QUOTE=Western787;1541912]While Stickman is certainly an expert on Bangkok, and while I enjoy reading Stickman's columns and he often times "nails it" as I mentioned below on his predictions, among other things I have to disagree him calling Beergarden a "House of Horrors" as he did Nov 17th. 2013 column. You can sometimes find reasonably decent girls in Beer Garden if you go random days, and different times of the day. Its just not accurate to label it a House of Horrors.[/QUOTE]I would agree with Stick on this one, and it is not only the old hags; it is the old alcoholics that hang out there that add to the horror. I have been hitting the BG for over 14 years. It used to be fantastic, but has been going downhill for years. The steepest decline came after the floods. Even my friends who were hardcore BG guys rarely find decent gals in there anymore. Granted, every once in awhile an ok looking gal walks in, but lookers don't become regulars there. But it requires lots of time waiting for that one.

[QUOTE=Marky1;1541599]Stickman hopes to see the bar industry die since he can no longer participate in it. He can barely hide his glee whenever something negative happens in the industry.[/QUOTE]Well said! Completely agree with this comment.

[QUOTE=Hiihii;1541681]I wish some of these girls were cute! I think due to looks these wimmin are targeting arabs, pakis and indians.[/QUOTE]If one doesn't at least occasionally get attacked by a genuine cutie after for example exiting Villa Market on Soi 11, then they are doing something wrong. Maybe they hide in the shops with some guys? Not sure.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1541924]I would agree with Stick on this one, and it is not only the old hags; it is the old alcoholics that hang out there that add to the horror. I have been hitting the BG for over 14 years. It used to be fantastic, but has been going downhill for years. The steepest decline came after the floods. Even my friends who were hardcore BG guys rarely find decent gals in there anymore. Granted, every once in awhile an ok looking gal walks in, but lookers don't become regulars there. But it requires lots of time waiting for that one.[/QUOTE]Ok lets assume Bangkok monger wise has been going downhill for a long time, and in fact few dispute that, but one has to also admit it also started at the top of a very high hill. Second, look around the world, practically every monger destination is getting hit either by the ballbusters and/or NGO's along with their hype up "trafficking' claims" pressuring govt and LE / or just huge price increases. Just a few examples 1. southern China. Donnguuan now a huge LE crackdown 2. Sosua, Dominican Republic, crackdowns combined with business interests who prefer cruise ship tourists over mongers. 3. Angeles City. hard core 3rd world, and aside from various crackdowns, top end girls in venues like Club Atlantis now don't even want to deal with Farangs anymore, preferring Koreans and Japanese. 4. Notable prices and living cost increases in a number of areas. Brazil a few years back and now Burma, which also has the NGO's all over the place. 5. Macau still OK but is always expensive, with, air quality so bad it makes Bangkok look pristine, and not practical given high living costs to either live there or make frequent visits 6. Cambodia has potential over time but infrastructure still poor and prices no longer rock bottom..

Looking around the globe, the trend is not that good.

The point is in that larger context Beergarden in relative terms is still a pretty good place.

It is true, its hard to find hotties unless you hit it the right time, and that can take a lot of visits, and its not like NPL which is free to walk by, so you got to buy a drink each time you visit..

I will take your word for it, but what do you see as the connection between The Floods and Beergarden (among other places) going further down hill?

[QUOTE=Western787; 1541940]The point is in that larger context Beergarden in relative terms is still a pretty good place.

It is true, its hard to find hotties unless you hit it the right time, and that can take a lot of visits, and its not like NPL which is free to walk by, so you got to buy a drink each time you visit.[/QUOTE]You need to know the right times to find a better looker or have patience to hang around.

I have been there several times over the years and was completely underwhelmed by the looks of the girls. Perhaps there may have been the odd one I would consider but those were usually already sitting with some guy, and I don't have the patience to wait and not interested to chat to others that are there.

Suits those guys less fussy about the looks and looking more to the service and price, and who enjoy the social situation, or guys that go in groups.

I could understand would be better for guys that are regulars there and already know some of the better girls.

At Suzie Wong bar I am known by several girls and they will obviously come to me when available. It costs me to buy them drinks but I don't care. Having 2 or 3 semi naked girls to play with is good for me and usually take at lest 2 girls to a room for further sex play. I can understand that BG would be cheaper but I struggle to find appealing girls there and I much prefer to see their asses naked first.

So I think in the end the choice of venues comes down to individual priorities and likes, and what style you are used to.

[QUOTE=Syzygies; 1541949]You need to know the right times to find a better looker or have patience to hang around.

I have been there several times over the years and was completely underwhelmed by the looks of the girls. Perhaps there may have been the odd one I would consider but those were usually already sitting with some guy, and I don't have the patience to wait and not interested to chat to others that are there.

Suits those guys less fussy about the looks and looking more to the service and price, and who enjoy the social situation, or guys that go in groups.[/QUOTE]I've been many times and as always, had a variety of experiences. There are the hardened girls, the party girls, the regular girls who are there every day, and then some girls that happily sit alone and they have been my best.

Usually from out of BKK looking either for a good night or to make some extra money.

For sure there are, and never will be Miss Worlds there (especially as some of the guys look like human detritus) , but there are good times to be had, more so than sexy times.

One girl I once talked to, late 20s early 30s and left with, was happy that I fed her, had drinks with her and provided her with a nice cool bed. She wouldn't take any money. Nice experiences can be found there, if you are happy and relaxed. If in a hurry to get laid with a superstar, its not going to happen.

[QUOTE=Syzygies; 1541949]I have been there several times over the years and was completely underwhelmed by the looks of the girls.[/QUOTE]Several times? What like 3 or 4 times "over the years"? No wonder you've run across few if any attractive girls.

[QUOTE=Marky1;1541599]Stickman hopes to see the bar industry die since he can no longer participate in it. He can barely hide his glee whenever something negative happens in the industry.[/QUOTE]Why can't Stickman participate in the bar industry? Did something happen? I don't know much about him but I enjoy reading his column. I don't get too worked up about his opinions. It's just one man's point of view.

[QUOTE=Allover;1541995]Why can't Stickman participate in the bar industry? Did something happen? I don't know much about him but I enjoy reading his column. I don't get too worked up about his opinions. It's just one man's point of view.[/QUOTE]I personally think its a fantastic column.

His column overall is excellent (way better than the reader submissions for example) but he has to 1. Support his advertisers and therefore twist stories a bit sometimes (sort of like "poetic license" for writers).2. Plus he is married so he can't barfine, stare at Go Go dancers each evening, hang at Nana Parking Lot, drop by sleazy massage parlours, shoot pool for hours with hookers, check out Soapy inventories, you know things many Farangs just do in an average day

And his column being very lengthy means just the sheer volume of topics, discussions, and comments, means he's going to say some things that people notice are not technically correct. For example recently stating flat out the G clubs girls "go" (OTC). Its more nuanced and he knows that but I guess he can't hedge everything.

[QUOTE=Marky1;1541599]Stickman hopes to see the bar industry die since he can no longer participate in it. He can barely hide his glee whenever something negative happens in the industry.[/QUOTE]I actually know him and have for over a decade. What you stated is not true.

[QUOTE=Western787;1542011]2. Plus he is married[/QUOTE]Lot of misinformation out there about Stick.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1541940]Ok lets assume Bangkok monger wise has been going downhill for a long time, and in fact few dispute that, but one has to also admit it also started at the top of a very high hill. Second, look around the world, practically every monger destination is getting hit either by the ballbusters and / or NGO's along with their hype up "trafficking' claims" pressuring govt and LE / or just huge price increases. Just a few examples 1. Southern China. Donnguuan now a huge LE crackdown 2. Sosua, Dominican Republic, crackdowns combined with business interests who prefer cruise ship tourists over mongers. 3. Angeles City. Hard core 3rd world, and aside from various crackdowns, top end girls in venues like Club Atlantis now don't even want to deal with Farangs anymore, preferring Koreans and Japanese. 4. Notable prices and living cost increases in a number of areas. Brazil a few years back and now Burma, which also has the NGO's all over the place. 5. Macau still OK but is always expensive, with, air quality so bad it makes Bangkok look pristine, and not practical given high living costs to either live there or make frequent visits 6. Cambodia has potential over time but infrastructure still poor and prices no longer rock bottom.

Looking around the globe, the trend is not that good.

The point is in that larger context Beergarden in relative terms is still a pretty good place.

It is true, its hard to find hotties unless you hit it the right time, and that can take a lot of visits, and its not like NPL which is free to walk by, so you got to buy a drink each time you visit.

I will take your word for it, but what do you see as the connection between The Floods and Beergarden (among other places) going further down hill?[/QUOTE]One of the things I find most amazing about Thailand is its resiliency. With each and every set back, SARS, the tsunami, the Songkhran Riots, the Yellows taking the airport, the Reds the center of the city, the floods, an open rebellion in the South, world economic turmoil in 08, and now the PDRC, Thailand seems to not roll over and die, but come back stronger each time.

One would think that each one of the events would increase the number of gal in the "scene," but in fact numbers and quality have dropped after each event. Of course it is not really the event but the general development of the country.

The flood however was interesting. Many of the gals stopped coming to work FL as they could not get to central BKK. The BG was very sparse during those couple of months. Many of the gals just never returned, perhaps finding other employment.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1542028]Lot of misinformation out there about Stick.[/QUOTE] Oh Ok, he WAS married then and many other times inferred he cannot, or will not, or doesn't care to participate in the usual bar activities available in Bangkok.

JAN 26, 2014 COLUMN

Sticking It Out.

In April 2005 I first thought about leaving Thailand. Mrs. Stick had headed back to Bangkok and I extended my stay at home by a week. I was sitting outside on one of those perfect Auckland days when there's nowhere else you'd rather be. The cloudless sky was a deep vivid blue you never see in Bangkok and breathing in the fresh morning air was like a hit of pure oxygen. Sipping my morning coffee, the opportunity cost of living in Bangkok was staring me in the face.

[url]http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/StickmanWeeklyColumn2013/Staying-in-Thailand.htm[/url]

[QUOTE=Goatscrot; 1542034]Thailand seems to not roll over and die, but come back stronger each time.[/QUOTE]Yes, you are absolutely correct, and exactly why (largely) capitalist economic systems by unleashing the innate abilities, creativity, and entrepreneurial spirit of the people. despite the imperfectionsof such systems, will win over economic systems that punish success, treat people like infants, and create ever increasing government dependencies like pre 1980's Communist-socialism in China, and now Obama-socialism in the USA.

As you said, apparently when the flood crisis hit, many bar girls found other employment and never returned. Necessity, the opposite of government dependency, is the mother of invention one might say.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1542055]Yes, you are absolutely correct, and exactly why (largely) capitalist economic systems by unleashing the innate abilities, creativity, and entrepreneurial spirit of the people. Despite the imperfectionsof such systems, will win over economic systems that punish success, treat people like infants, and create ever increasing government dependencies like pre 1980's Communist-socialism in China, and now Obama-socialism in the USA.

As you said, apparently when the flood crisis hit, many bar girls find other employment and never returned. Necessity, the opposite of government dependency, is the mother of invention one might say.[/QUOTE]There is article today in The Nation titled "Teflon Thailand". In fact, the country ability to recover quickly is well know to analysts and many Thais are proud of it.

BTW, if you could resize a little your continous eulogy of capitalism here, or move it to a more appropriate place.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1541676]Same at Soil 11 in regard to massage shops.

Entering from Soi 11 (the only entrance in fact) into Villa Market, then leaving the store via the regular exit, you will usually be accosted by dozens of massage girls, some very sleazy, but some quite cute, since the (mandatory and only) exit requires you to run past either 6 plus shops east bound (toward Soil 13) OR the normal way, back to Soi 11 and 6 more shops west bound. Minus a couple of LB's I think in total approx 50 to 60 girls work just in those very small shops, and they get to give their best sales pitch to every Farang that happens to shop at Villa Market.

There is no escape and they all know you probably just overpaid at Villa for your favorite Farang food and therefore have cash.

As for HIllary Clubs, Hillary 3 and Hillary 1 in Nana are fantastic. Other two clubs OK too.[/QUOTE]Indeed, I too run the gauntlet of these hard sales pitch girls. I went back yesterday after getting my groceries as there was one that caught my eye."350 for full body Thai massage"

Not interested in having some 3rd rate canola rubbed on my skin thankee so we head back into the bowels of this dump to a cubicle. 3/4 of the way through a lackluster job, the light touching and giggling begins as expected. She asked for 2000 Baht but setled for 1500 incc the original Thai massage. The arrival of a loud gringo (yank) in the next cubicle, boasting about the "8 liters of beer" he had just drank put a damper on the mood and stopped yours truly from reaching his happy place within the allotted time. Be clear with these upsell gals that the 1 hr massage

Is not the drop dead limit for the pop.

On a side note, I note that there's an increasing contingent of Africans congregating in the alley adjacent the Villa market. Selling drugs or pimping?

Time will tell.

[QUOTE=Dornyone; 1542144]Indeed, I too run the gauntlet of these hard sales pitch girls. I went back yesterday after getting my groceries as there was one that caught my eye."350 for full body Thai massage"

Not interested in having some 3rd rate canola rubbed on my skin thankee so we head back into the bowels of this dump to a cubicle. 3/4 of the way through a lackluster job, the light touching and giggling begins as expected. She asked for 2000 Baht but setled for 1500 incc the original Thai massage. The arrival of a loud gringo (yank) in the next cubicle, boasting about the "8 liters of beer" he had just drank put a damper on the mood and stopped yours truly from reaching his happy place within the allotted time. Be clear with these upsell gals that the 1 hr massage

Is not the drop dead limit for the pop.

On a side note, I note that there's an increasing contingent of Africans congregating in the alley adjacent the Villa market. Selling drugs or pimping?

Time will tell.[/QUOTE]Nigerians and yes drugs including heroin, pimping, and other times all kinds of phone cons including a few months back caught using counterfeit baht notes to fool their targets. Most Nigerians in Bangkok of course are not criminals including legit gemstone dealers. With Hyde Sukumvit (and the Hyatt) on the way on Soi 13, the criminal types may need to find new locales.

[QUOTE=Western787;1542169]With Hyde Sukumvit (and the Hyatt) on the way on Soi 13, the criminal types may need to find new locales.[/QUOTE]I certainly hope that you are right! It is an eyesore.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1542055]Yes, you are absolutely correct, and exactly why (largely) capitalist economic systems by unleashing the innate abilities, creativity, and entrepreneurial spirit of the people. Despite the imperfectionsof such systems, will win over economic systems that punish success, treat people like infants, and create ever increasing government dependencies like pre 1980's Communist-socialism in China, and now Obama-socialism in the USA.

As you said, apparently when the flood crisis hit, many bar girls found other employment and never returned. Necessity, the opposite of government dependency, is the mother of invention one might say.[/QUOTE]Well, I would say that Thailand has not produced a very good standard of living for most of its population. The wealth disparity is huge.

Northern Europe is still the best model ever devised. The perfect blend. Obama is far from a socialist. He is center right and his policies reflect that. There are many things that don't function well in a market.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1542036]Oh Ok, he WAS married then and many other times inferred he cannot, or will not, or doesn't care to participate in the usual bar activities available in Bangkok.

JAN 26, 2014 COLUMN

Sticking It Out.

In April 2005 I first thought about leaving Thailand. Mrs. Stick had headed back to Bangkok and I extended my stay at home by a week. I was sitting outside on one of those perfect Auckland days when there's nowhere else you'd rather be. The cloudless sky was a deep vivid blue you never see in Bangkok and breathing in the fresh morning air was like a hit of pure oxygen. Sipping my morning coffee, the opportunity cost of living in Bangkok was staring me in the face.

[url]http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/StickmanWeeklyColumn2013/Staying-in-Thailand.htm[/url][/QUOTE]Um, catching on there, you are!

There are quite a few of us "long timers" who have grown tired of the bar scene. I think I was in Cowboy once last year and I live within a 5 min walk. Eventually you tire of it. It changes and you change. The fact that there are coyote girls there, insane prices for local beer and other alcohol, combined with the fact that I just find most of the girls there boring, and it is just not a place I want to be. Now if you could pay a "toilet fine" and take 'them back for a quick 1k romp in the hong nam, then it might be fun again.

There are very few dudes who have lived here for over a decade that still hang out in gogos. Don't get me wrong, there are a few. Hey, I loved it once and for quite a number of years, about 6. Midnight was the favorite hangout till it was sold to the Arab and then Cactus. But everything eventually gets old. When I first moved here I just could not understand the long term resident's attitude about the bar scene. Thought they were nuts to have pulled back. Now, I get it as it has happened to me.

I think it is great that guys still enjoy it. More power to them. But for my group of friends, when we head out, it is for some great food at one of the many wonderful local restaurants and then off to a few places we can get good beer and alcohol for a good price. Yes, they do exist. When wanting a little action, most of my friends have a list of numbers and "order in." I have a GF so it is oilies for me once every week or 10 days.

[QUOTE=Allover;1541995]Why can't Stickman participate in the bar industry? Did something happen? I don't know much about him but I enjoy reading his column. I don't get too worked up about his opinions. It's just one man's point of view.[/QUOTE]I thought a principal of the ISG is staying out of other people's private business, whether they are on ISG or not. That's why we have fake names.

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[QUOTE=DRRonin; 1542339][I]"There is article today in The Nation titled "Teflon Thailand". In fact, the country ability to recover quickly is well know to analysts and many Thais are proud of it.

BTW, if you could resize a little your continous eulogy of capitalism here, or move it to a more appropriate place."

[/I]

Ya, if you are going to bring politics into a sex forum at least have something mildly intelligent to say other than the old tired Fox promoted nonsense about Obama bringing Socialism to America. Yawn. It only makes you look silly to most people.[/QUOTE]Most of us know a prostitute when we see one. [blue][Political Commentary deleted by Admin][/blue]

So say I want to buy drugs from a nigerian. Whats the procedure? Does he take me to a secret place? Do I need password? Reference?

Its hard for me to believe they sell right out in open. In fact I hardly ever see anyone chatting to nigerians other than other nigerians. LOL.

Wouldn't it be safer to buy drugs from a Thai?

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[QUOTE=Hiihii;1542340]Its hard for me to believe they sell right out in open.[/QUOTE]Really? I have had them come up to me as I pass Soi 13 and ask me if I want to buy various drugs. Used to happen in the Soi 3 and 5 area as well.

[QUOTE=Hiihii; 1542340]So say I want to buy drugs from a nigerian. Whats the procedure? Does he take me to a secret place? Do I need password? Reference?

Its hard for me to believe they sell right out in open. In fact I hardly ever see anyone chatting to nigerians other than other nigerians. LOL.

Wouldn't it be safer to buy drugs from a Thai?[/QUOTE]While Meth and coke and other party drugs can are are sold locally, in regard to Heroin the Nigerians primarily use Bangkok as a pass thru to the USA and were cited as one of the most critical links a decade back in this NY Times article.

[url]http://opioids.com/heroin/heroin-inc.html[/url]

[QUOTE=Hiihii; 1542340]So say I want to buy drugs from a nigerian. Whats the procedure? Does he take me to a secret place? Do I need password? Reference?[/QUOTE]One way ticket to an all expense paid holiday, courtesy of the Thai Criminal Courts, in the Bangkok Hilton.

[QUOTE=Wolvenvacht;1542419]One way ticket to an all expense paid holiday, courtesy of the Thai Criminal Courts, in the Bangkok Hilton.[/QUOTE]See how unjust life is? That is not happening, they are there everyday, why why why?

Personally I would not use capitals to name anything related to the Thai police and judicial system, it seems undeserved.

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[QUOTE=Mouse1;1542445]But first make up your mind if he is Muslim or a communist by birth, because he can't be both.[/QUOTE]Yemen comes to mind.

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[QUOTE=Hiihii; 1542340]So say I want to buy drugs from a nigerian. Whats the procedure? Does he take me to a secret place? Do I need password? Reference?

Its hard for me to believe they sell right out in open. In fact I hardly ever see anyone chatting to nigerians other than other nigerians. LOL.

Wouldn't it be safer to buy drugs from a Thai?[/QUOTE]No idea what the secret password is. Probably something along the lines of "Hey do you have drugs to sell". If we know what's going on you can be sure the police know what's going on. And that means the Nigerians and everyone else doing business in lower Sukhumvit are paying off the cops to keep their business going. They used to sell out of the Burger King in Nana Sq but I guess they got kicked out of there. Still not recommended because every now and then the cops probably have to arrest someone to show they are more than an extortion enterprise which is what the cops in Thailand basically are, Extortion Inc. You would not want to be their arrest for the month.

Personally I think the Nigerians are just enjoying themselves. Nothing wrong with milling around and talking to other Nigerians.

Mr 787 what happened to the doorman at R4? He was there everyday day for years. I remember he developed a bad cough.

Ying and Bo-both have in coomon in leaving their supporters worse off after their reign of terror than before. Very funny. Kind of. LOL.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1540822]We will see two grades of working girls: very high end and very low end. The "in the middle girl" who worked jobs but did not make enough to make ends meet and would head out to FL a few nights a month are a quickly dying breed. They make enough to sustain themselves now.[/QUOTE]The most astute observation I've seen in a long time.

The segmentation is already happening. On the very low end, there are 300-600 baht hookers in Thai-oriented areas (Yaowarat, Khlong Lot) , and on the higher end is Sukhumwit with 2000-3000 cost of a ST (total cost, say 600 BF + 400 drinks + 2000 ST + 300 hotel). The middle ( 1000 baht per pop) is quickly disappearing, and the part-timer scene has pretty much died 3 years ago.

The worst part about it is the increasingly professional attitudes both at the low end and at the high end. There is no longer a pretense of a GFE, rarely spending more time with the customer than the bare minimum required to get them off. In the old days (and still in Pattaya fairly often) , I'd get a girl who is quite happy to be with me for the session in addition to the money. And there's enough connection to see each other as people, rather than a meathole on one side, and a baht note source on the other.

Going with a Bangkok working girl is getting as mechanical as any other city in the world (or in Asia, at least). And this will be the ultimate downfall of Bangkok as a mongering destination. Albeit in decline, Pattaya is still holding up somewhat, but that won't last too long either.

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[QUOTE=Crocodilexp; 1542755]The worst part about it is the increasingly professional attitudes both at the low end and at the high end. There is no longer a pretense of a GFE, rarely spending more time with the customer than the bare minimum required to get them off. In the old days (and still in Pattaya fairly often) , I'd get a girl who is quite happy to be with me for the session in addition to the money. And there's enough connection to see each other as people, rather than a meathole on one side, and a baht note source on the other.[/QUOTE]There are still plenty of girls that can enjoy sex and get it off. It depends though on how many customers they have and whether you develop a mutual liking. I have several regular girls that act same as a GF. When I meet a new girl, if lucky I may be able to get a percentage turned on.

It depends how you treat the girl and if she actually likes you and feels no pressure or stress.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp; 1542755]The most astute observation I've seen in a long time.

The segmentation is already happening. On the very low end, there are 300-600 baht hookers in Thai-oriented areas (Yaowarat, Khlong Lot) , and on the higher end is Sukhumwit with 2000-3000 cost of a ST (total cost, say 600 BF + 400 drinks + 2000 ST + 300 hotel). The middle (1000 baht per pop) is quickly disappearing, and the part-timer scene has pretty much died 3 years ago.

The worst part about it is the increasingly professional attitudes both at the low end and at the high end. There is no longer a pretense of a GFE, rarely spending more time with the customer than the bare minimum required to get them off. In the old days (and still in Pattaya fairly often) , I'd get a girl who is quite happy to be with me for the session in addition to the money. And there's enough connection to see each other as people, rather than a meathole on one side, and a baht note source on the other.

Going with a Bangkok working girl is getting as mechanical as any other city in the world (or in Asia, at least). And this will be the ultimate downfall of Bangkok as a mongering destination. Albeit in decline, Pattaya is still holding up somewhat, but that won't last too long either.[/QUOTE]Yep, spot on. The bread and butter of most mongers her for years was the 1k baht gal. Great attitudes, fun, and a willingness to hang out and have a good time. The more the price has increased the less fun it has become. Pay more get less, that seems to be the rule. Oilies still have some gems though.

Dudes come here and treat women the same way the treat women in the West. The accept what they get like little puppies. I see it all too often. An Asian woman will eat yo alive if you do that.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp; 1542755]The most astute observation I've seen in a long time.

The segmentation is already happening. On the very low end, there are 300-600 baht hookers in Thai-oriented areas (Yaowarat, Khlong Lot) , and on the higher end is Sukhumwit with 2000-3000 cost of a ST (total cost, say 600 BF + 400 drinks + 2000 ST + 300 hotel). The middle (1000 baht per pop) is quickly disappearing, and the part-timer scene has pretty much died 3 years ago.

The worst part about it is the increasingly professional attitudes both at the low end and at the high end. There is no longer a pretense of a GFE, rarely spending more time with the customer than the bare minimum required to get them off. In the old days (and still in Pattaya fairly often) , I'd get a girl who is quite happy to be with me for the session in addition to the money. And there's enough connection to see each other as people, rather than a meathole on one side, and a baht note source on the other.

Going with a Bangkok working girl is getting as mechanical as any other city in the world (or in Asia, at least). And this will be the ultimate downfall of Bangkok as a mongering destination. Albeit in decline, Pattaya is still holding up somewhat, but that won't last too long either.[/QUOTE]If Bangkok goes completely 1st world, in theory it could end up sort of like P4P in New York City where the market to some extent is divided between basically (low end) $50 "crack hoes" and ("high end") $400 plus escorts. However there are so many variables in Bangkok its hard to see that happening anytime within 5 to 10 years. You got cultural differences with far less stigma put on working girls, better quality street girls, and working girls of modest means who will increasingly want the Hi So Mall experience, and doing part time, and increased numbers of Burmese girls who will be arriving in larger numbers as Burma permits travel, and while the Chinese will bid prices up, they will have all ranges of mongers, so they might keep the cash flowing to keep the market diverse, maybe help the mid range also, including getting more business for the high overhead soapy palaces.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot; 1542830]Yep, spot on. The bread and butter of most mongers her for years was the 1k baht gal. Great attitudes, fun, and a willingness to hang out and have a good time.[/QUOTE]"Great attitudes, fun, and a willingness to hang out"? Nana Parking Lot girls not bad sometimes

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I plan to travel to Bangkok next week and was wondering if it is safe to travel to Bangkok and stay as I plan to stay at Sukhumvit Soi 13 at Residence Inn, Anyone who can let me have information on safety for travelling in Bangkok and roaming around Soi Cowboy and Nana late at Nights. Any experience on Residence Inn also would be welcome.

[QUOTE=Western787;1542853]"Great attitudes, fun, and a willingness to hang out"? Nana Parking Lot girls not bad sometimes[/QUOTE]Have not partaken there in a long time. Will give it a look see.

[QUOTE=ChoduMadan;1542942]I plan to travel to Bangkok next week and was wondering if it is safe to travel to Bangkok and stay as I plan to stay at Sukhumvit Soi 13 at Residence Inn, Anyone who can let me have information on safety for travelling in Bangkok and roaming around Soi Cowboy and Nana late at Nights. Any experience on Residence Inn also would be welcome.[/QUOTE]Demonstrations are mostly gone and you can move about the city w / o any problems with both sides in pre talking phase it appears. Late nights and even 2, 3, to 4 am are very safe in Bangkok especially when you stay near main road Sukhumvit, avoid dark streets when you can etc.

Soi 13 in a strategic sense is good, near Thermae and half way between Nana and Soi Cowboy, but you are fairly deep into Soi 13 and its not one I would walk deep into late at night unless i had no choice, but that could be just a matter of perception to some extent..

I don't think Soi 13 will have any problems per se but its simpler to get a 24/7 busier and safer soi, for example Soi 11 which is wider and better lit. I don't know about Residence Inn, but I know the general area.

Have you considered Nana Hotel? on Soi 4? (sometimes to get rooms you need to go to official site) but its extremely handy to a lot of things. Just a bit further distance to get to Soi Cowboy from Soi 4 (vs Soi 13)

The best rule is to book hotels as close as possible to main street , including Sukhumvit of course, Soi 4, Soi 11, Soi 7 and other places where there are lots of people all hours, with no dark low light areas.

There is a discussion below about Nigerian drug dealers in and around Soi 13 but generally not too much of a problem, and most i think come hang near Soi 3 anyways.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1542995]Have not partaken there in a long time. Will give it a look see.[/QUOTE]Somebody said elsewhere the pattern in Bangkok usually is one bad experience. 2 average experiences, and one great experience. And I think the same can be said about NPL, as gems do show up now and then.

[QUOTE=Hiihii; 1542884][blue][Deleted by Admin][/blue]

[u][b]EDITOR's NOTE[/b][/u]: [blue]This report was edited or deleted because the writing was so bad that the report was nearly [u]impossible to comprehend[/u]. [/blue][/QUOTE]No doubt he saw an amazing hottie in Rainbow 4 and couldn't contain himself and became discombobulated trying to describe her great beauty.

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1542812]Why is communism and Islamism (well, I say it's a word!) mutually exclusive? They're basically dictatorships. Small bodies of old men telling everybody what they can and cannot do, at the point of a gun.[/QUOTE]Praise be to Allaah.

It is not possible for a person to be a Muslim and a Communist at the same time, because they are opposites that cannot co-exist in the same individual without one of them prevailing and the other being eliminated. Whoever is a Communist is not a Muslim. Communism involves different kinds of blatant kufr, such as denying the existence of Allaah (may He be glorified and exalted), denying the existence of the unseen worlds, making a mockery of the religion of Allaah and looking down on it, and flouting its laws and morals. How can the Muslim whose religion is Islam follow an ideology which states that religion is the opium of the people? Communists are among the kuffaar in refutation of whom Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning) : 'Were they created by nothing, or were they themselves the creators? Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Nay, but they have no firm Belief. ' [al-Toor 52:35-36] How can the Muslim follow a group whose belief is such? We ask Allaah for guidance.

[QUOTE=Western787;1543014]Have you considered Nana Hotel? on Soi 4? (sometimes to get rooms you need to go to official site) but its extremely handy to a lot of things. Just a bit further distance to get to Soi Cowboy from Soi 4 (vs Soi 13)[/QUOTE]Nana Hotel may have been a good hotel once (perhaps during the Vietnam War, when GIs did their R&R here?) but it is now long past its prime. Unless of course you like fluorescent lights, glacial airco, windows with a view on a blind concrete wall and furniture that is still the original one when the hotel was built. And they try to get you in the hotel taxi to the airport at prices at least 3 times the metered taxi price.

[QUOTE=Syzygies; 1542816]There are still plenty of girls that can enjoy sex and get it off. It depends though on how many customers they have and whether you develop a mutual liking. I have several regular girls that act same as a GF. When I meet a new girl, if lucky I may be able to get a percentage turned on.

It depends how you treat the girl and if she actually likes you and feels no pressure or stress.[/QUOTE]I'm comparing the Bangkok scene over a time span of 6+ years. I'm the constant factor there, and if anything things have gotten smoother on my side of things during the years (more fluent in Thai, more capable of steering the interaction where I want it, and bypassing the rough edges). But there is no denying that the average girl's attitude has gone significantly away from a friendly, bubbly GFE, and it's now more of an exception (though not an impossibly rare one like in Frankfurt) instead of the norm.

As for having regular working girls, I go with hookers precisely to avoid such regularity. Sure, I might do 2-3 repeats with a provider I like, but in my early 40's, I can still get a fair amount of interest from regular Thai women (not bragging, it's a non-acchievement in Thailand). But they take so much time to manage, and the variety is not optimal. To each their own, but I'm more of a variety guy who fails to see the point of investing significant time or money into cultivating a specific working girl.

Back in the golden days (and still sometimes in Pattaya) it was possible to get that instant-girlfriend "hey, we could hang out" feeling after 30 min first time together, not just the "done, next" vibe that increasingly seems to be the standard.

Has anyone tried Arab Night Clubs on Soi 3 / Arab?

Could anyone please recommend a tall 5'-9/10 Thai in or around Nana Plaza / Soi Cowboy? (I am aware of tall stunning hyperactive 'girls' in front of Nana Plaza – I am not interested in them)?

Generally I prefer to find myself but unfortunately I have never been able to find a tall Thai.

I will be visiting soon and help would be greatly appreciated?

Thanks

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1542995]Have not partaken there in a long time. Will give it a look see.[/QUOTE]I doubt you going to find a hawt girl who is conversant in world events in the parking lot. They do cum cheap though.

[QUOTE=Mouse1; 1543030]Praise be to Allaah.

It is not possible for a person to be a Muslim and a Communist at the same time, because they are opposites that cannot co-exist in the same individual without one of them prevailing and the other being eliminated. Whoever is a Communist is not a Muslim. Communism involves different kinds of blatant kufr, such as denying the existence of Allaah (may He be glorified and exalted) , denying the existence of the unseen worlds, making a mockery of the religion of Allaah and looking down on it, and flouting its laws and morals. How can the Muslim whose religion is Islam follow an ideology which states that religion is the opium of the people? Communists are among the kuffaar in refutation of whom Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning) : 'Were they created by nothing, or were they themselves the creators? Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Nay, but they have no firm Belief. ' [al-Toor 52:35-36] How can the Muslim follow a group whose belief is such? We ask Allaah for guidance.[/QUOTE]It is not possible for a person to be Islamic and communist at the same time.

The inherent problem with Islam is gov and religion are inseparable. It makes a "secular" society impossible in the Islamic world. Islamic states are beyond oppressive, seeking to control all aspects of people's lives; and try to leave the religion and you have issues. Christianity is bad but at least you don't have the nutty religious police running around telling people what to do. The way they treat women is abominable. Would love to see all Islamic women throw off their burqas, don some short skirts, cut off their men sexually, and assert themselves. Islam is truly stuck in the middle ages and trying to drag the rest of the world back.

Arab society takes control to the absolute limit. Not a lot of happy people running about Suk Soi 3, but some great food. I certainly pity the folks.

[QUOTE=Wolvenvacht;1543046]Nana Hotel may have been a good hotel once (perhaps during the Vietnam War, when GIs did their R&R here?) but it is now long past its prime. Unless of course you like fluorescent lights, glacial airco, windows with a view on a blind concrete wall and furniture that is still the original one when the hotel was built. And they try to get you in the hotel taxi to the airport at prices at least 3 times the metered taxi price.[/QUOTE]The OP claims seems focused on having total safety for "travelling in Bangkok and ROAMING around Soi Cowboy and Nana late at Nights." which I interpreted to mean to randomly walking between entertainment districts and his hotel, and Nana Hotel (being on a main Soi and next to a major entertaiment district) solves that problem.

IMHO the best rule is to 1. To avoid being deep into a soi 2. If one has to be deep into a Soi, makes sure its a very heavy traffic and well lit Soi like Soi 11 or the first 400 to 500 meters of Soi 4 or other comparable sois.

[QUOTE=Global Surfer; 1543174]Has anyone tried Arab Night Clubs on Soi 3 / Arab?

Could anyone please recommend a tall 5'-9/10 Thai in or around Nana Plaza / Soi Cowboy? (I am aware of tall stunning hyperactive 'girls' in front of Nana Plaza – I am not interested in them)?

Generally I prefer to find myself but unfortunately I have never been able to find a tall Thai.

I will be visiting soon and help would be greatly appreciated?

Thanks[/QUOTE] Literally 5-9 to 5-10? and stunning too? Good luck. In Bangkok such girls are called "models" and you seen them on ads for Korean Air among other places

Even in the west that narrows it down a huge amount.

You don't like long legs 5-5 to 5-7 types?

Well, if you've got huge bucks and want to blow money at G Clubs (or in an extreme case hang out at trade shows or Malls talking to spoke models and so forth with large wads of Bahts) you MIGHT find one, but she probably won't be takeout. So what's the point?

Your requirement effectively eliminate 99% of P4P providers in Bangkok, it would be like going to Kiev and demanding someone 4 ft 8 inches tall, it doesn't make sense, with the odds better in Kiev in fact. Thai women average 3 to 4 inches shorter height than typical western women, and you've probably noticed it when you've pulled a Go Go off the stage, as very often (though proportional relative to leg length etc). she typically will be shorter what you THOUGHT you saw on stage. Westerners used to looking for example at strip club stage dancers have trouble IMHO in making that contextual adjustment.

[QUOTE=Wolvenvacht;1543046]Nana Hotel may have been a good hotel once (perhaps during the Vietnam War, when GIs did their R&R here?) but it is now long past its prime. Unless of course you like fluorescent lights, glacial airco, windows with a view on a blind concrete wall and furniture that is still the original one when the hotel was built. And they try to get you in the hotel taxi to the airport at prices at least 3 times the metered taxi price.[/QUOTE]On my first Bangkok trip in 2000, I stayed at the Nana Hotel in their cheapest room. It was a "dump", but better than similar priced hotel rooms in Bangkok. For my rookie trip to Thailand, the location couldn't be beat. I kind of liked the hotel's "sleazy" atmosphere and reputation. I've stayed in worst hotels in my travels through SE Asia and South America. If you're used to staying at upscale hotels like the Hilton, Hyatt or Marriott, the Nana Hotel isn't for you.

On my subsequent trips to Bangkok, I've stayed at other hotels. I did visit a fellow monger who was staying at the Nana Hotel in one of their suites which was pretty nice.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp; 1543069]I'm comparing the Bangkok scene over a time span of 6+ years. I'm the constant factor there, and if anything things have gotten smoother on my side of things during the years (more fluent in Thai, more capable of steering the interaction where I want it, and bypassing the rough edges). But there is no denying that the average girl's attitude has gone significantly away from a friendly, bubbly GFE, and it's now more of an exception (though not an impossibly rare one like in Frankfurt) instead of the norm.[/QUOTE]Assuming everything (in P4P terms) is on a near continuous downward slope (let says peaking 15 years back) at what point of the slope do you believe Bangkok is presently in before it becomes very similar to a western city.

Is Bangkok only half way there? Or based upon your knowledge, experience, and ability to compare at least 6 years back - is it further down the slope than that?

[QUOTE=Western787; 1543214]Is Bangkok only half way there? Or based upon your knowledge, experience, and ability to compare at least 6 years back. Is it further down the slope than that?[/QUOTE]Your question assumes change is linear. This is only true on short time scales. Generally change is curvilinear.

For example what if Thaksin eventually prevailed? I wouldn't bet on it, but he might. Then he gets his 2 trillion in additional debt for infrastructure; he puts 20% in his pocket; squanders some of the rest; saddles the country with unsustainable levels of debt; eventually Thailand goes in default; the economy crashes; and the baht drops to 50 to the US dollar. Seems that would mark the beginning of a golden age in mongering. Though I'm not holding my breath.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch; 1543227]Your question assumes change is linear. This is only true on short time scales. Generally change is curvilinear.

For example what if Thaksin eventually prevailed? I wouldn't bet on it, but he might. Then he gets his 2 trillion in additional debt for infrastructure; he puts 20% in his pocket; squanders some of the rest; saddles the country with unsustainable levels of debt; eventually Thailand goes in default; the economy crashes; and the baht drops to 50 to the US dollar. Seems that would mark the beginning of a golden age in mongering. Though I'm not holding my breath.[/QUOTE]I am aware that (assuming it could be accurately indexed somehow)"P4P quality" is not in linear decline, and for that matter (though the main driver) the inverse relation between economic improvement and decreased P4P quality itself is not always linear. The question posed required an assumption of NEAR continuous decline (the larger megatrend in fact) to keep the question itself simple

Thaksin bankrupting Thailand might do it, or (not much on the Baht per se but Thai economy) if the USA has some event where the dollar itself comes under attack. That could hurt both China and Thailand's economy near term.

Short of a collapse of the USA economy which would cause a world wide depression, Thailand (and China despite near term issues) IMHO will continue to grow economically, thus impacting its status as the arguably major P4P destination in the world.

[QUOTE=Western787;1543256]Thailand (and China despite near term issues) IMHO will continue to grow economically, thus impacting its status as the arguably major P4P destination in the world.[/QUOTE]I think you're right. China's economy will continue to grow. Eventually there will be enough people with enough wealth for the creation of a consumption driven economy. I think China's biggest challenges are it's ethnic minorities and environmental problems. Chinese prosperity will spread. Thailand's current problems are short term. Eventually this mess will get sorted out and it will be back to business.

Thailand's P4P is effected by the strong Thai economy; and by declining birth rates; and by larger numbers of Asian mongers.

[QUOTE=Mouse1;1543030]It is not possible for a person to be a Muslim and a Communist at the same time, because they are opposites that cannot co-exist in the same individual without one of them prevailing and the other being eliminated. Whoever is a Communist is not a Muslim. Communism involves different kinds of blatant kufr, such as denying the existence of Allaah (may He be glorified and exalted), denying the existence of the unseen worlds, making a mockery of the religion of Allaah and looking down on it, and flouting its laws and morals. How can the Muslim whose religion is Islam follow an ideology which states that religion is the opium of the people? Communists are among the kuffaar in refutation of whom Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning) : 'Were they created by nothing, or were they themselves the creators? Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Nay, but they have no firm Belief. ' [al-Toor 52:35-36] How can the Muslim follow a group whose belief is such? We ask Allaah for guidance.[/QUOTE][url]Http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2580248/Saudi-Arabia-bans-naming-children-Linda.html[/url]

Those wonderful fellas in Saudi have scored another " jokers of the year" award with this novel piece of nonsense.

Its running second, in the " Muslim Joke of the Year " to the 5 times a day plonker who said it was "haram " to land on Mars.

I think a few countries should reciprocate and tell all Mohammads that from now on, they are to be called Horace or Gerald.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1543267]I think you're right. Chinese prosperity will spread. .[/QUOTE]The day China was changed forever and the same reason why the Thais were able to build a world class city. From National Public Radio:

[url]http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/01/20/145360447/the-secret-document-that-transformed-china[/url]


Here is a copy of the actual document that transformed China:

http://www.chinatoday.com.cn/ctenglish/se/download/site127/20090710/00142ad54b730bc0ee3d02.jpeg

[QUOTE=Western787;1543256]Thailand (and China despite near term issues) IMHO will continue to grow economically, thus impacting its status as the arguably major P4P destination in the world.[/QUOTE]Agreed 100.

Good reason why one may want to stay away from the Russians (Uzbek's technically) as well the as the Grace Hotel. This documentary is relatively new (2011 or later) and focuses on Uzbek trafficking, which no doubt occurs in some form. As expected it also contains the usual wild NGO "[url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url]" claims, but they are much more hedged and nuanced than usual.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1nRKU6ug9M[/url]

[QUOTE=Western787;1543194]Literally 5-9 to 5-10? and stunning too? Good luck. In Bangkok such girls are called "models" and you seen them on ads for Korean Air among other places.[/QUOTE]I don't know, depends how fussy he is about additional equipment the girls might carry. I've spent the last 4 years living in Singapore and drinking in a bar that had lots of Russian dancers and lots of 5'10" long haired Thais in tight fitting dresses. OK, they may have been guys, but that didn't seem to stop some of the punters. I stuck with the Russians, having spent most of the past 18 years in SE Asia a nice blonde makes a change.

Still cracks me up how many mongerers (including a mate of mine) couldn't tell the difference. I'm now in Nay Pyi Taw, Myanmar, and can barely find a place to drink, let alone any girls.

[QUOTE=FreebieFan; 1543307][url]Http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2580248/Saudi-Arabia-bans-naming-children-Linda.html[/url]

Those wonderful fellas in Saudi have scored another " jokers of the year" award with this novel piece of nonsense.

Its running second, in the " Muslim Joke of the Year " to the 5 times a day plonker who said it was "haram " to land on Mars.

I think a few countries should reciprocate and tell all Mohammads that from now on, they are to be called Horace or Gerald.[/QUOTE]I remember a few years back trying to understand naming systems for Islamists (specifically why Americans kept calling the man Mr Hussein, whilst the rest of the world called him 'Saddam'). Anyway, I came across the Islamic equivalent of the Women institute or Mothers Union, which nicely explained naming systems. It explained that Moslem children shouldn't be called Christian names such as Peter, John, etc because 'they are our enemies'. I was really quite chilled, and I sat there thinking, 'but I am not your enemy. '. But if this is what they believe, we have a lot of grief yet to come.

[QUOTE=Mouse1;1543425]I remember a few years back trying to understand naming systems for Islamists (specifically why Americans kept calling the man Mr Hussein, whilst the rest of the world called him 'Saddam'). Anyway, I came across the Islamic equivalent of the Women institute or Mothers Union, which nicely explained naming systems. It explained that Moslem children shouldn't be called Christian names such as Peter, John, etc because 'they are our enemies'. I was really quite chilled, and I sat there thinking, 'but I am not your enemy. '. But if this is what they believe, we have a lot of grief yet to come.[/QUOTE]I have friends in France who are Cambodian Cham refugees from the war. The Cham are an ethnic Muslim minority in Cambodia and Vietnam dating back to their ancient empire. My friends were named Ibrahim, Mohammad, and Musfafa before 9/11. They then changed their names to Bob, Bill, and Ed. They no longer wanted to be identified with Islam (although they did not change their religion.) They also did not want to be identified with France.

[QUOTE=Mouse1;1543425]I remember a few years back trying to understand naming systems for Islamists (specifically why Americans kept calling the man Mr Hussein, whilst the rest of the world called him 'Saddam'). Anyway, I came across the Islamic equivalent of the Women institute or Mothers Union, which nicely explained naming systems. It explained that Moslem children shouldn't be called Christian names such as Peter, John, etc because 'they are our enemies'. I was really quite chilled, and I sat there thinking, 'but I am not your enemy. '. But if this is what they believe, we have a lot of grief yet to come.[/QUOTE]That's not fully correct. So far I know most Muslim peoples want to apply their children's name in Arabic. It is for their religious belief (because of Al-Quran written in Arabic). And to stay more closer to the name of Prophet Mohammad.

Does this sort of thing happen much?

I am walking along Suk Soi 19 late last night. I pass a short semi-dumpy woman with some grey hair, maybe 50 to 60 years old. I'm 57 but probably look about 50.

She says hello in a kurt voice with an Eartha Kit tone. I turn toward her a little expecting her to ask directions to where something is. She just says "2000" (in English) then after a very brief pause (no more than 1 second), perhaps sensing I'm stunned, says "200 massage". I just continue on my way with no response.

I would not really even consider doing her, if was a freebie, as I am heading back to 35 year old GF who still has a fabulously sexy tight body, and I don't really like true Thai massage at all. I have been far to spoiled, associating with young ladies, even when I have to pay. I could easily do an older lady of 40 to 45 if she was in good shape and still a hottie I guess. This woman was really just far too ordinary. I guess many guys are married to some ordinary woman like this.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1543214]Assuming everything (in P4P terms) is on a near continuous downward slope (let says peaking 15 years back) at what point of the slope do you believe Bangkok is presently in before it becomes very similar to a western city.

Is Bangkok only half way there? Or based upon your knowledge, experience, and ability to compare at least 6 years back . Is it further down the slope than that?[/QUOTE]Bangkok will never be directly comparable to a Western city. But it might eventually get to the level of an uninteresting modern Asian city, like, say, Hong Kong, Signapore or Kuala Lumpur, where mongering very much exists, but it tends to be either wham-bam-next-10-clients please at the low end geared to locals (Geylang, HK 141, Petaling) , or too much teasing and spotty service plus extremely high prices in foreigner-oriented section (Orchard towers, Wanchai, Beach Club). Still relatively easy to get laid, but it gets boring quickly and nobody travels there for sex.

In the worst case, I guess it could end up like Manila if a strong paternalistic gov't comes to power again and does another round of restricting the nighlife, like what Purachai did in the early 2000s.

What was special about the Thai scene was the ubiquitous GFE in most sessions. There are loads of hookers in PRC or Vietnam, and they're not even expensive, but the attitudes are so bad that I often think I'm far better off looking than taking one. Increasingly poor attitudes and mechanical minimum-required service is what will do in Bangkok as a sex destination (this is well underway already) and I don't see some short-term price / supply fluctuations (say, due to an economic or political crisis) making much difference.

There's a convincing article about demographic underpinnings of the sex scene decline in Thailand (Google: "Thailand's doomsday approaches"). That might matter more than just the improving economy.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;1543497]Bangkok will never be directly comparable to a Western city.[/QUOTE]Pretty much an appropriate mid-long term vision.

On the other hand there is no city / nation / government. In a fast and global visibility also due to technologies. That want to be depicted as a sex destination, even if, under the skin, they do make quite a living out of the sex industry.

Not only in Thailand there is a lot of people living or supporting the sex industry not from the customer side and who are those supposedly being those officially appointed to keep the town / nation clean from the sex industry. More than anywhere this is in Asia.

Today BKK (and Thailand in general) is not (yet?) into that path but there are signs it is heading there.

Look at the real estate investments (4-5 star hotels, shopping malls, etc) in Sukhumvit, especially "low Suk". Sooner or later these will kick out the P4P scene as they cannot tolerate it to happen. They could have done a Geylang scene (RLD) for instance, but they are not. There seems to be a plan to have, opposite BeerGarden, in Soi 7, a new building complex: another sign of the transformation. So, sooner or later, even BG will be "out of place" and somebody will be told to change his trade business or somebody will just buy the land and build another type of trade.

Whether this immense growth of shopping malls and 4-5 star hotels will be in good business or not is another story.

A) can the (local and visitor) market absorb such a trade supply offer?

B) will the visitors still visit after there is no more (significant) P4P action?

Today there is a mix (with growth of non P4P visitors) , but tomorrow this might change.

But the autorhities will look good:

A) they have cleaned the city and reduced the idea of a sex industry city.

Be) they have given (or claim they generated the opportunity) employement during construction period.

See) they have creted future job opportunities in the malls and hotels, job off the P4P industry.

The) the investors have made their money (and maybe shared some tea money to get permits etc) , especially those in the building industry. They do not care then if the mall will generate profits or not. (that will be up to the trade industry. They (the builders) are already off to the next building site.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp; 1543497]Bangkok will never be directly comparable to a Western city. But it might eventually get to the level of an uninteresting modern Asian city, like, say, Hong Kong, Signapore or Kuala Lumpur.

There's a convincing article about demographic underpinnings of the sex scene decline in Thailand (Google: "Thailand's doomsday approaches"). That might matter more than just the improving economy.[/QUOTE]HK and Singapore are Chinese, with a dash of British. KL is Malay, again with a dash of British, and predominantly Muslim. Bangkok is Thai. There are significant cultural differences between these cities.

As for the Stickman article, about 6 month ago I sent him an email in response to one of his weekly articles about the declining quality of gogo girls. My email contained one simple table of Thai demographic data from 1950 through 2010. Stick referred me to the Doomsday article. He said it appeared in late 2012. This article and my email were in essential agreement; however, the Doomsday article was obviously not written by a demographer. It did not discuss the impact of Crude Death Rates (CDR) on the population profile. This can only be inferred from the changes in the population pyramids in the Doomsday article. So many words and tables when the whole story could have been told with a few simple numbers.

Here is what is behind the changes in the population pyramid in the Doomsday article. In 1950-55 Thailand's Crude Birth Rate (CBR) was 42.5 while its CDR was 15.6. That is, there was a average of 42.5 births and 15.6 deaths per 1000 people during that time period. From this the Natural Change (NC) per 1000 can be calculated. It was 27.0 (with rounding). Even though the CBR dropped slightly in 1960-65, a much greater decrease in CDR resulted in the NC peaking at 30.3. By 2005-2010 CBR had dropped to 12.9 and CDR dropped to 7.2. NC declined to 5.7. In other words, the NC by 2010 was one-fifth what it had been in 1960.

The Doomsday article wisely included a figure with a graph illustrating per capita Purchasing Power Parity (PPP) , which increased 9-fold between 1980 and 2010. With the exception of dips with the crisis in the late 1990s and the great recession of 2008, the increase in PPP is linear. This backs up the many ISG posts that have remarked how better employment opportunities have impacted the P4P scene.

A major deficiency in the Doomsday article is it's failure to discuss immigration/emigration. If Thailand prospers relative to its neighbors, people seeking better opportunities will be drawn to Thailand. This will include some sex workers. Thailand has a relatively tolerant attitude towards sex workers. As long as this persists, it is reasonable to think there will be a relatively large P4P scene.

Are the good old days ever returning? Do they ever? Guys who write about how great it was in the 1990s or first decade of this century should talk to my Vietnam Vet buddies who did R&R in Bangkok and Pattaya in 1967. A couple of my buddies went back in the late late 1990s and remarked that the good old days were long gone. It's all relative. Frankly, I think today BKK has the world's best mongering scene. I base this on the quality of the P4P scene and the urban setting in which it is embedded. While the city will change in 5 years, I expect it will still be the world's best mongering destination.

[QUOTE=BionicMan;1543504]Look at the real estate investments (4-5 star hotels, shopping malls, etc) in Sukhumvit, especially "low Suk". Sooner or later these will kick out the P4P scene as they cannot tolerate it to happen.[/QUOTE]But aren't all these 4 and 4 star hotels GF? Quality sex workers are always welcome in quality hotels. I've stood in hotel lobbies with escorts I've booked and had very friendly conversations with hotel management staff who showed considerable respect for the escort I was with. And they didn't bat an eye on the occasions I was accompanied by two escorts. However, three star hotels can get testy about guests bringing ladies that were obviously picked up on the street onto the premise.

Strip clubs, where FS is common on the premises are found throughout Southeast Florida. San Francisco has a very visible sex scene west of Union Square. There is a thriving P4P scene in every large city in every country I've ever visited. In some it is less visible, but it's always present. The big soapies like those found along Ratchda are not going away. The real estate NEP and Soi Cowboy sit on my become too valuable to host the P4P scene, but as long as there are large numbers of farangs looking for sex around lower Suk, the P4P scene will find a home somewhere in the neighborhood. Beer Garten may disappear; the Nana Hotel parking lot may disappear; but the business will find a new home somewhere near by.

[QUOTE=Kerrstar; 1543418]I don't know, depends how fussy he is about additional equipment the girls might carry. I've spent the last 4 years living in Singapore and drinking in a bar that had lots of Russian dancers and lots of 5'10" long haired Thais in tight fitting dresses. OK, they may have been guys, but that didn't seem to stop some of the punters. I stuck with the Russians, having spent most of the past 18 years in SE Asia a nice blonde makes a change.

Still cracks me up how many mongerers (including a mate of mine) couldn't tell the difference. I'm now in Nay Pyi Taw, Myanmar, and can barely find a place to drink, let alone any girls.[/QUOTE]LOL, no he specified a real girl. By the way Thermae's supposedly strict "no LB" rule apparently now has a post op exception. I would think the Japs would be pretty pissed if they ever got fooled.

AVERAGE height in Thailand for women is only 157. 3 cm (almost 5-2) so that means that 165 cm (approx 5-5) and up is tall by Thai standards, therefore what are the odds of finding a 5-9 or 5-10 girl, who is also hot, also P4P, and available at somewhat reasonable rates? That rules out most G club girls and probably all of off-market (literal) model-hookers and similar quality women. Many "spokesmodels" in Siam or Terminal 21 and similar venues doing various shows can be flat out 10 stunners, with feminine voices that prove they are women. And most are in fact around 5-9, but my guess is that very few are hookers, and generally I've noticed are very careful to avoid any direct eye contact with any males in close proximity. Avoiding direct eye contact is the best way to avoid uninvited solicitations, and given their often dazzling beauty - they must get hit on many times a day.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1543515]But aren't all these 4 and 4 star hotels GF? Quality sex workers are always welcome in quality hotels. I've stood in hotel lobbies with escorts I've booked and had very friendly conversations with hotel management staff who showed considerable respect for the escort I was with. And they didn't bat an eye on the occasions I was accompanied by two escorts. However, three star hotels can get testy about guests bringing ladies that were obviously picked up on the street onto the premise.[/QUOTE]The hotels are in for the trade, to have business and make money, so they are not much concerned (not much does not mean they are not attentive) about the fact you bring in a P4P girl.

Just as in KL, SIN, HKG (and UAE) etc. If you are in a 4-5 star hotel you will not bring back, most likely, a trashed hooker. (how many normal girls are in the hotel with their husband or partner and dressed sexy. Quite some, so if a WG is dressed appropriately, it does nto mean with a burka, she can pass as a sexy lady with her partner)

The city saves face as it has (more) 4-5 stars hotels, rather than dodgy places not able to cater for families but mainly to the mongerers.

The 4-5 star hotels calls for premium customers who "don't want to show they attend much the P4P scene" even if they do. So they are discrete, etc, still pay premium prices, and the hotel saves face.

The NANA hotel is run on conservative principles and fosters traditional values.

The NANA does not hesitate to refuse rooms to persons unsuited to the prevailing ethos of The Nana – even if they have a confirmed reservation.

1 / The NANA does not welcome SEX TOURISTS, and does not try to be polite about it.

Borderline cases are not given the benefit of the doubt, but are treated as sex tourists.

Those who are borderline cases should stay elsewhere.

Guests who attempt to bring in bargirls, catamites and their like will be told in plain language to settle their bills and leave.

Remaining on the premises after being told to leave will be treated as a police matter.

The Nana does not ask for or listen to explanations or excuses, and does not apologise for the manner in which miscreants are thrown out.

The Nana also does not apologise for any mistakes it may be accused of having made with regard to the identification of sex tourists.

To keep The Nana private, secure, wholesome and sleaze-free for the kind of guests we welcome, room guests are not permitted to take visitors / outsiders upstairs into the building and their rooms, or into the garden and pool area.

Exceptions may be made in appropriate circumstances at the management's discretion.

Suitable visitors / outsiders may be entertained in the restaurant.

2 / The NANA operates a "ZERO TOLERANCE " policy regarding

&9702; TROUBLE-MAKERS,

&9702; POSSESSORS AND USERS OF ILLICIT DRUGS and

&9702; ALL OTHER ILLEGAL AND NEFARIOUS ACTIVITIES.

3 / The NANA also does NOT WELCOME.

&9702; UNDOMESTICATED PEOPLE – the sort of people whose conduct and appearance give tourists in general and their compatriots in particular a bad name.

When The NANA states 'NOT WELCOME', The NANA means it. There will be no politeness about it.

4 / The NANA welcomes FAMILIES and prides itself on its child-friendly staff, but families are welcome only if CHILDREN are KEPT UNDER REASONABLE CONTROL.

The NANA is not a playground for children: children must not be allowed to disturb other guests. Families that do not keep their children under control will be told to settle their bill and leave in no uncertain manner.

5 / The NANA particularly welcome guests who like PETS and ANIMALS.

The NANA is home to many rescued cats, terrapins and one dog, all of which are well cared for. The garden of The NANA is also home to many squirrels, birds, etc. However, guests are not allowed to bring in pets or other rescued animals. The NANA already has too many rescued animals on the premises.

Visitors who object to any of The NANA's policies or who intend to spend their time in Thailand whoring, behaving badly, indulging in alcohol abuse and illicit drugs should stay elsewhere. The NANA is not that kind of place.

Tourism is not about going on a rampage through other people's country: those who cannot travel abroad without behaving badly should stay home.

On these policies, The NANA is not interested in dissenting public opinion or what the business world calls 'customer feedback'.

The NANA caters to a certain kind of clientele and that is the end of the matter.

No discussion. No compromise.

http://www.theatlantahotelbangkok.com/facilities.php

[QUOTE=Western787; 1543523]AVERAGE height in Thailand for women is only 157. 3 cm (almost 5-2) so that means that 165 cm (approx 5-5) and up is tall by Thai standards, therefore what are the odds of finding a 5-9 or 5-10 girl, who is also hot, also P4P, and available at somewhat reasonable rates?

Many "spokesmodels" in Siam or Terminal 21 and similar venuesi doing various shows can be flat out 10 stunners, with feminine voices that prove they are women. And most are in fact around 5-9, but my guess is that very few are hookers, and generally I've noticed are very careful to avoid any direct eye contact with any males in close proximity. Avoiding direct eye contact is the best way to avoid uninvited solicitations, and given their often dazzling beauty. They must get hit on many times a day.[/QUOTE]The tallest lady I've ever been with in Bangkok is Aor (#24 at Annie's). I'd estimate she is 5'7" (170cm) in her bare feet. I had a brief conversation with the two ladies in the attached photo. I'm 6'2" (188cm). I'd say allowing for their heels 5'9" (175cm) is a fair estimate of their height. During our brief conversation (I think we exhausted our respective Thai and English vocabularies in about 60 seconds) they were polite (did establish eye contact) but were adept at discouraging any thought of a solicitation. FYI, in person they were at least as attractive as they appear in the photo.

While a farang sex monger wouldn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of hooking up with them, as one would expect ladies like these do make their charms available to wealthy and influential men. Though not as tall (probably about 168cm), the model and TV actress my friend hooked me up with years ago was at least as attractive as these ladies. As I've mentioned in other posts and PMs, she spoke very little English and the sex with her was no better than average. So in my opinion there is no need to envy the HiSo Thai gents who bed these ladies. The sex with a good gogo or MP girl is much better.

[QUOTE=BionicMan;1543524]The hotels are in for the trade, to have business and make money, so they are not much concerned (not much does not mean they are not attentive) about the fact you bring in a P4P girl.[/QUOTE]Your analysis is spot on. It is called the hospitality industry.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch; 1543507]A major deficiency in the Doomsday article is it's failure to discuss immigration / emigration. If Thailand prospers relative to its neighbors, people seeking better opportunities will be drawn to Thailand. This will include some sex workers. Thailand has a relatively tolerant attitude towards sex workers. As long as this persists, it is reasonable to think there will be a relatively large P4P scene.

Are the good old days ever returning? Do they ever? Guys who write about how great it was in the 1990s or first decade of this century should talk to my Vietnam Vet buddies who did R&R in Bangkok and Pattaya in 1967. A couple of my buddies went back in the late late 1990s and remarked that the good old days were long gone. It's all relative. Frankly, I think today BKK has the world's best mongering scene. I base this on the quality of the P4P scene and the urban setting in which it is embedded. While the city will change in 5 years, I expect it will still be the world's best mongering destination.[/QUOTE]Burma with 60 million people (Thailand's level) will be an increasingly important WG source as travel restrictions are liberalized. Of course already Burma is the main source of construction and labor workers for Thailand and they get special visas and of course work at incredibly low wages, but as some say "better than working for free" in Burma. I guess they just feed them and house then in Burma with zero pay often times.

From the web from I believe 10 plus years back "Hundreds of thousands of Burmese migrant workers are employed in various sectors of Thai industry, including fisheries, manufacturing, domestic and construction work, hotels and restaurants, and agriculture. As Thailand has become more prosperous, fewer Thai people are willing to work in jobs which are commonly known as 'dirty, dangerous, and demeaning', and Burmese nationals have arrived in Thailand in increasing numbers to fill the labour shortage."

Note although in a different context, it brings up the issue of Thais leaving "demeaning" jobs.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1543541]Burma with 60 million people (Thailand's level) will be an increasingly important WG source as travel restrictions are liberalized. Of course already Burma is the main source of construction and labor workers for Thailand and they get special visas and of course work at incredibly low wages, but as some say "better than working for free" in Burma. I guess they just feed them and house then in Burma with zero pay often times.[/QUOTE]This post illustrates the forces that drive immigration. Thais who own and operate fishing boats have been accused by international watchdogs of slavery. According to the NGOs, Burmese men will board the boat and never get off. Once the boat embarks, it doesn't return to port. Fish are offloaded while offshore. The poor men working the boat have no opportunity to get off.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1543526]The NANA hotel is run on conservative principles and fosters traditional values.

The NANA does not hesitate to refuse rooms to persons unsuited to the prevailing ethos of The Nana – even if they have a confirmed reservation.

1 / The NANA does not welcome SEX TOURISTS, and does not try to be polite about it.

Borderline cases are not given the benefit of the doubt, but are treated as sex tourists.

Those who are borderline cases should stay elsewhere.

Guests who attempt to bring in bargirls, catamites and their like will be told in plain language to settle their bills and leave.

Remaining on the premises after being told to leave will be treated as a police matter.

The Nana does not ask for or listen to explanations or excuses, and does not apologise for the manner in which miscreants are thrown out.

The Nana also does not apologise for any mistakes it may be accused of having made with regard to the identification of sex tourists.

To keep The Nana private, secure, wholesome and sleaze-free for the kind of guests we welcome, room guests are not permitted to take visitors / outsiders upstairs into the building and their rooms, or into the garden and pool area.

Exceptions may be made in appropriate circumstances at the management's discretion.

Suitable visitors / outsiders may be entertained in the restaurant.

2 / The NANA operates a "ZERO TOLERANCE " policy regarding

&9702; TROUBLE-MAKERS,

&9702; POSSESSORS AND USERS OF ILLICIT DRUGS and

&9702; ALL OTHER ILLEGAL AND NEFARIOUS ACTIVITIES.

3 / The NANA also does NOT WELCOME.

&9702; UNDOMESTICATED PEOPLE – the sort of people whose conduct and appearance give tourists in general and their compatriots in particular a bad name.

When The NANA states 'NOT WELCOME', The NANA means it. There will be no politeness about it.

4 / The NANA welcomes FAMILIES and prides itself on its child-friendly staff, but families are welcome only if CHILDREN are KEPT UNDER REASONABLE CONTROL.

The NANA is not a playground for children: children must not be allowed to disturb other guests. Families that do not keep their children under control will be told to settle their bill and leave in no uncertain manner.

5 / The NANA particularly welcome guests who like PETS and ANIMALS.

The NANA is home to many rescued cats, terrapins and one dog, all of which are well cared for. The garden of The NANA is also home to many squirrels, birds, etc. However, guests are not allowed to bring in pets or other rescued animals. The NANA already has too many rescued animals on the premises.

Visitors who object to any of The NANA's policies or who intend to spend their time in Thailand whoring, behaving badly, indulging in alcohol abuse and illicit drugs should stay elsewhere. The NANA is not that kind of place.

Tourism is not about going on a rampage through other people's country: those who cannot travel abroad without behaving badly should stay home.

On these policies, The NANA is not interested in dissenting public opinion or what the business world calls 'customer feedback'.

The NANA caters to a certain kind of clientele and that is the end of the matter.

No discussion. No compromise.

[url]http://www.theatlantahotelbangkok.com/facilities.php[/url][/QUOTE]Times must have changed. During the Vietnam war the Nana was famous for the "Puying Room" where off-duty hookers would hang out, socialize, and offer cut-rate services. In recent years it is still hospitable to working girls in the coffee shop where I have made a few instant friends.

Am I missing something. Didn't there used to be links to reports of distinction on these threads?

I am traveling to Bangkok this week as was hoping to find the latest info on where to find some fun and where to stay, this thread seems to have turned into more of a chatter though?

Any direction and tips for a great stay in Bangkok really appreciated.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1543194]Literally 5-9 to 5-10? And stunning too? Good luck. In Bangkok such girls are called "models" and you seen them on ads for Korean Air among other places.

Even in the west that narrows it down a huge amount.

You don't like long legs 5-5 to 5-7 types?

Well, if you've got huge bucks and want to blow money at G Clubs (or in an extreme case hang out at trade shows or Malls talking to spoke models and so forth with large wads of Bahts) you MIGHT find one, but she probably won't be takeout. So what's the point?

Your requirement effectively eliminate 99% of P4P providers in Bangkok, it would be like going to Kiev and demanding someone 4 ft 8 inches tall, it doesn't make sense, with the odds better in Kiev in fact. Thai women average 3 to 4 inches shorter height than typical western women, and you've probably noticed it when you've pulled a Go Go off the stage, as very often (though proportional relative to leg length etc). She typically will be shorter what you THOUGHT you saw on stage. Westerners used to looking for example at strip club stage dancers have trouble IMHO in making that contextual adjustment.[/QUOTE]Thanks for the information. I am aware of that but there is no harm in trying. The average height is increasing so does the chance of success and there are always exceptions.

Generally I have no problem dropping in Kiev while flying from Europe to Dubai; however, there are a few problems in paradise at this time, although, Bangkok is not politically very stable either. Anyway it's not right to ignore Asians and Africans. .

I have no interest in spending fortune on models.

I give so much importance to height because I am 1. 88

We see how it goes.

[QUOTE=Global Surfer; 1543570]I give so much importance to height because I am 1. 88

We see how it goes.[/QUOTE]We're the same height. I have no problem of a physical nature with the height of the Bangkok ladies, if that is what you are concerned about. It's not to hard to find ladies around 1.65. In December a young inexperienced escort was a bit astonished when I opened my hotel room door. She was about 1.5. She asked my height. I said something like 1.5, which she thought was very funny. We had a great time.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1543523]LOL, no he specified a real girl. By the way Thermae's supposedly strict "no LB" rule apparently now has a post op exception. I would think the Japs would be pretty pissed if they ever got fooled.

AVERAGE height in Thailand for women is only 157. 3 cm (almost 5-2) so that means that 165 cm (approx 5-5) and up is tall by Thai standards, therefore what are the odds of finding a 5-9 or 5-10 girl, who is also hot, also P4P, and available at somewhat reasonable rates? That rules out most G club girls and probably all of off-market (literal) model-hookers and similar quality women. Many "spokesmodels" in Siam or Terminal 21 and similar venues doing various shows can be flat out 10 stunners, with feminine voices that prove they are women. And most are in fact around 5-9, but my guess is that very few are hookers, and generally I've noticed are very careful to avoid any direct eye contact with any males in close proximity. Avoiding direct eye contact is the best way to avoid uninvited solicitations, and given their often dazzling beauty. They must get hit on many times a day.[/QUOTE]Stunners? I've seen these, very few are stunners! God did not make that many stunners and I find it hard to believe, a real stunner is going to work for so little money as paid to shopping center pitchwomans.

I wonder if agogo girls avoid eye contact because they don't want UNsolicited sexual advances too. LOL.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1543526]The NANA hotel is run on conservative principles and fosters traditional values.

The NANA does not hesitate to refuse rooms to persons unsuited to the prevailing ethos of The Nana – even if they have a confirmed reservation.

1 / The NANA does not welcome SEX TOURISTS, and does not try to be polite about it.

Borderline cases are not given the benefit of the doubt, but are treated as sex tourists.

Those who are borderline cases should stay elsewhere.

Guests who attempt to bring in bargirls, catamites and their like will be told in plain language to settle their bills and leave.

Remaining on the premises after being told to leave will be treated as a police matter.

The Nana does not ask for or listen to explanations or excuses, and does not apologise for the manner in which miscreants are thrown out.

The Nana also does not apologise for any mistakes it may be accused of having made with regard to the identification of sex tourists.

To keep The Nana private, secure, wholesome and sleaze-free for the kind of guests we welcome, room guests are not permitted to take visitors / outsiders upstairs into the building and their rooms, or into the garden and pool area.

Exceptions may be made in appropriate circumstances at the management's discretion.

Suitable visitors / outsiders may be entertained in the restaurant.

2 / The NANA operates a "ZERO TOLERANCE " policy regarding

&9702; TROUBLE-MAKERS,

&9702; POSSESSORS AND USERS OF ILLICIT DRUGS and

&9702; ALL OTHER ILLEGAL AND NEFARIOUS ACTIVITIES.

3 / The NANA also does NOT WELCOME.

&9702; UNDOMESTICATED PEOPLE – the sort of people whose conduct and appearance give tourists in general and their compatriots in particular a bad name.

When The NANA states 'NOT WELCOME', The NANA means it. There will be no politeness about it.

4 / The NANA welcomes FAMILIES and prides itself on its child-friendly staff, but families are welcome only if CHILDREN are KEPT UNDER REASONABLE CONTROL.

The NANA is not a playground for children: children must not be allowed to disturb other guests. Families that do not keep their children under control will be told to settle their bill and leave in no uncertain manner.

5 / The NANA particularly welcome guests who like PETS and ANIMALS.

The NANA is home to many rescued cats, terrapins and one dog, all of which are well cared for. The garden of The NANA is also home to many squirrels, birds, etc. However, guests are not allowed to bring in pets or other rescued animals. The NANA already has too many rescued animals on the premises.

Visitors who object to any of The NANA's policies or who intend to spend their time in Thailand whoring, behaving badly, indulging in alcohol abuse and illicit drugs should stay elsewhere. The NANA is not that kind of place.

Tourism is not about going on a rampage through other people's country: those who cannot travel abroad without behaving badly should stay home.

On these policies, The NANA is not interested in dissenting public opinion or what the business world calls 'customer feedback'.

The NANA caters to a certain kind of clientele and that is the end of the matter.

No discussion. No compromise.

[url]http://www.theatlantahotelbangkok.com/facilities.php[/url][/QUOTE]I saw the word "catamite" and it brought me back to the Atlanta Hotel, Soi 2, Bangkok. A horrid place to stay. You are calling the Atlanta the Nana Hotel. 4 Nana Tai, Bangkok. There is quite a difference. Unless you have more info. The Atlanta Hotel was once a chemical company run by Max Henn. Are you confused, high, ....or did the Atlanta buy the Nana?

http://www.theatlantahotelbangkok.com/caveat.php

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1350&dat=20021103&id=pkpPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=DgQEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6386,774778

[QUOTE=Kaintuck;1543552]Times must have changed. During the Vietnam war the Nana was famous for the "Puying Room" where off-duty hookers would hang out, socialize, and offer cut-rate services. In recent years it is still hospitable to working girls in the coffee shop where I have made a few instant friends.[/QUOTE]

See answer one below.

[QUOTE=Kaintuck;1543552]Times must have changed. During the Vietnam war the Nana was famous for the "Puying Room" where off-duty hookers would hang out, socialize, and offer cut-rate services. In recent years it is still hospitable to working girls in the coffee shop where I have made a few instant friends.[/QUOTE]Western787's post isn't serious, but a poor attempt at humor. He copied it from the Atlanta Hotel's website and replaced Atlanta's name with Nana. The problem with what Western787 posted is that it can be easily misunderstood as true (which happened to you and I'm sure others) and it gets repeated as true to others. I personally think that "humor" like this is somewhat malicious since it can cause harm to the Nana Hotel's business of catering to mongers.

I was here in Thailand in 1989 for 5 weeks. Was it much better than now? Ok was cheaper. I got a Cowboy bargirl for whole night for 400 Baht. BF I forget but must have been cheap. However after that she was a hassle as was very hard to get rid of her. She would turn up uninvited.

I don't recall many girls performing badly back then but I did mostly bargirls and the odd Soapy like the Thermae or Darling, but no oily girls. Maybe Mona Lisa.

So the big difference was that 90 percent of girls fucked pretty good and LT was the norm for bargirls. BB was very common of course but not always. Aids was not heard of I believe.

Nana Hotel was no worse than it is now. Always a sleaze Hotel.

[QUOTE=Yujin;1543614]Western787's post isn't serious, but a poor attempt at humor. He copied it from the Atlanta Hotel's website and replaced Atlanta's name with Nana. The problem with what Western787 posted is that it can be easily misunderstood as true (which happened to you and I'm sure others) and it gets repeated as true to others. I personally think that "humor" like this is somewhat malicious since it can cause harm to the Nana Hotel's business of catering to mongers.[/QUOTE]

The title is "Ballbusters future plans for Nana Hotel" and with the web site of Atlanta Hotel clearly listed below as sourcing my post.

Anyone able to read plain English knows its a joke, or anyone that RTFF as mere hours ago I was suggesting Nana Hotel to a monger looking for safety and convenience.

And i guess you're saying pet lovers and bible thumpers will now be booking Nana Hotel? and mongers will be avoiding it since it is now "wholesome and sleaze-free?" You've got to be kidding, right?

In any case to those that might be worried it might lose its reputation, I can personally vouch for the sleazy, sordid, hooker-friendly, and monger-favorable nature of Nana Hotel.

If that is insufficient, I have no problem with the post being deleted by the Admin

[QUOTE=Yujin;1543614]Western787's post isn't serious, but a poor attempt at humor. He copied it from the Atlanta Hotel's website and replaced Atlanta's name with Nana. The problem with what Western787 posted is that it can be easily misunderstood as true (which happened to you and I'm sure others) and it gets repeated as true to others. I personally think that "humor" like this is somewhat malicious since it can cause harm to the Nana Hotel's business of catering to mongers.[/QUOTE]Many thanks. Happy to know the venerable Nana hasn't changed its stripes. I may be wrong but think the Atlanta Hotel may have been part of the consortium of hotels that catered to American service men on R&R in Bangkok during the Vietnam war. The deal was that they could join the group by promising to offer $5 / night per room. 24 hour restaurant / bar, A / C, pool, and (most important) , a liberal guest policy. The Grace Hotel was in this group and was one of the few that was recommended for officers. How times have changed.

[QUOTE=Kaintuck;1543674]The Grace Hotel was in this group and was one of the few that was recommended for officers. How times have changed.[/QUOTE]The Grace is now a Hotel for only if you are really desperate as for Nana, but for different reasons. Zenith Hotel, was another where a high percentage of guests were muslims and I was looked on as pariah I think. I had no problem with them but it looked like they thought I should not be there.

[QUOTE=Yujin;1543614]Western787's post isn't serious, but a poor attempt at humor. He copied it from the Atlanta Hotel's website and replaced Atlanta's name with Nana. The problem with what Western787 posted is that it can be easily misunderstood as true (which happened to you and I'm sure others) and it gets repeated as true to others. I personally think that "humor" like this is somewhat malicious since it can cause harm to the Nana Hotel's business of catering to mongers.[/QUOTE]Not even having 100 mongers freely defecating all around Nana Hotel could damage it. The have seen worst. If you think that W787's postings (politically soaked ones aside) aren't funny, can you try making us laugh next time?

Is the 'Dream hotel' guest-friendly?

[QUOTE=El Flaco;1543681]The have seen worst. If you think that W787's postings (politically soaked ones aside) aren't funny, can you try making us laugh next time?[/QUOTE]Normally I am not keen on simple satire, irony or sarcasm, but this one was amusing. At least topical.

Of course I am not a sex tourist (only). I took GF, and 2 others from family to tropical Island Lipe for 4 days. Many Swedish girls there but most were a bit pudgy for my taste. The coral was good in several locations. Very nice place to holiday for those bored by Samui and Phuket.

Perfect for the G clubs and Go Go's and within weeks very likely the hottest dance mix in the world.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFV1NtDvuPo[/url]

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1543507]Frankly, I think today BKK has the world's best mongering scene. I base this on the quality of the P4P scene and the urban setting in which it is embedded. While the city will change in 5 years, I expect it will still be the world's best mongering destination.[/QUOTE]It is not all relative. Just walk down lower Sukhumwit (from Soi 3 to Asoke, including Soi 4) and count the number of passable-looking freelancers. In 2008, there were many (I'd say 30-50 almost always) , these days you'd hardly count ten on a good night (and the best looking ones today are the better looking ones from 2008, only 6 years older). The bars (although not my favorite scene) haven't improved much. I have never heard anyone who's been around that things are more or less the same or better in agogos compared to 5 or 10 years ago. The managers are very loud in whining how recruiting even middling-looking girls is difficult now.

Pattaya is clearly better than Bangkok for mongering since about 2010, whereas before it was a bit of a wash (Bangkok having better looks and wider variety of venues, Pattaya having the sheer numbers and low prices).

You might be right that Bangkok might have world's best mongering scene among large cities, but only because the scene elsewhere started out inferior and is declining at a roughly similar rate.

Back in the 1950s-1980s, there were several new pussy paradises being discovered / created by Westerners and flourishing (briefly Korea and HK, then Philippines, Thailand) , then Eastern Europe in the early 1990s (quite briefly, though). But since about 2000 or so (almost 20 years now) , no place has emerged as a new destination for mongering, and the old places haven't gotten better. Could be various factors, globalization, mobile phones, whatever.

All eyes on Burma now... hope the scene there it pans out well, it has potential.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp; 1543763]You might be right that Bangkok might have world's best mongering scene among large cities, but only because the scene elsewhere started out inferior and is declining at a roughly similar rate.

Back in the 1950s-1980s, there were several new pussy paradises being discovered / created by Westerners and flourishing (briefly Korea and HK, then Philippines, Thailand) , then Eastern Europe in the early 1990s (quite briefly, though). But since about 2000 or so (almost 20 years now) , no place has emerged as a new destination for mongering, and the old places haven't gotten better. Could be various factors, globalization, mobile phones, whatever.

All eyes on Burma now. Hope the scene there it pans out well, it has potential.[/QUOTE]I believe all these paradises depended upon sellers in effect mispricing services due in part to high barriers to communication much beyond their village or city. Vs today where for example Burmese 18+ beauties (despite 3rd world status of Burma) are not going to misprice in a similar way. Paradise in its idealize version typically IMHO would be where there is an abundant supply of beautiful and charming females, but don't quite seem to know it yet, and price accordingly.

True, nearly all the major P4P markets across the world seem to on the downslope either due to economic growth, cell phones, NGO's, LE crackdowns and of course the rlentless underlying mega trend - globalization itself

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp; 1543763]It is not all relative. Just walk down lower Sukhumwit (from Soi 3 to Asoke, including Soi 4) and count the number of passable-looking freelancers. In 2008, there were many (I'd say 30-50 almost always) , these days you'd hardly count ten on a good night (and the best looking ones today are the better looking ones from 2008, only 6 years older). The bars (although not my favorite scene) haven't improved much. I have never heard anyone who's been around that things are more or less the same or better in agogos compared to 5 or 10 years ago. The managers are very loud in whining how recruiting even middling-looking girls is difficult now.[/QUOTE]I heard not many years ago when the Nana Go Go's closed each night, many of the girls would just move to Nana Parking Lot. Plus Soi 4 itself would have much larger crowds for example at 2 to 3 AM than now, even filling up the Nana Hotel restaurant late at night. Have you heard of that?

[QUOTE=Datebayo;1543708]Is the 'Dream hotel' guest-friendly?[/QUOTE]Yes. Definitely.

SW

[quote=hiihii; 1543593]stunners? i've seen these, very few are stunners! god did not make that many stunners and i find it hard to believe, a real stunner is going to work for so little money as paid to shopping center pitchwomans.

i wonder if agogo girls avoid eye contact because they don't want unsolicited sexual advances too. lol.[/quote]the money may not be that low, especially if the hiring-vendor has to pull them out of an agency to get the quality and poise he wants. often times they are road show type teams making many visits to many malls on different days, expecially with very large product rollouts. and one show right before chinese new year at terminal 21 and they were introducing some kind of new modeling / beauty magazine or something, and they had 4 girls alternating speaking downstairs in the rotunda (on lower level food court) and each one was flat out drop dead beautiful, absolute stunners by any definition.. and they didn't have to do like a one hour near continuous speech typical of many spokemodels. it was approx 15 minutes each or so and rotating. my guess is they were being paid model level rates.

spokesmodels can vary in looks but i have rarely seen one below 8 level.

no need to wonder on go go's, you stated it correctly but just from a different angle. go go dancers do in fact among other things use the faint (fake) smile brief eye contact method of signaling barfine prospects, but of course 90% of guys would typically be acceptable. the exception being i think japanese who can just pick out any dancer they want to barfine w/ o any contact. another likely exception is when the mamasans (like the aggressive ones in rainbow 1) do the point to customer / then point to dancer / then gyrate their hips thing, generally the dancer is going along, but the problem is one doesn't quite get the vibe independent of the mamasan's sales job, so i think is riskier than normal

[quote=western787;1543784]the money may not be that low, especially if the hiring-vendor has to pull them out of an agency to get the quality and poise he wants. often times they are road show type teams making many visits to many malls on different days, expecially with very large product rollouts. and one show right before chinese new year at terminal 21 and they were introducing some kind of new modeling / beauty magazine or something, and they had 4 girls alternating speaking downstairs in the rotunda (on lower level food court) and each one was flat out drop dead beautiful, absolute stunners by any definition. and they didn't have to do like a one hour near continuous speech typical of many spokemodels. it was approx 15 minutes each or so and rotating. my guess is they were being paid model level rates.[/quote]i remember going back about 10 12 years ago i used to know one of the guinness girls from an irish bar just of sathorn road, the opposite site of patpong. can't even remember the name of the bar now but it's changed names several times since. anyway, she worked about 4 or 5 nights a week, but longs hours and took in 16k a month. that was a lot of money back then so she didn't need to p4p. never did manage to nail her.

[QUOTE=Syzygies; 1543484]Does this sort of thing happen much?

I am walking along Suk Soi 19 late last night. I pass a short semi-dumpy woman with some grey hair, maybe 50 to 60 years old. I'm 57 but probably look about 50.

She says hello in a kurt voice with an Eartha Kit tone. I turn toward her a little expecting her to ask directions to where something is. She just says "2000" (in English) then after a very brief pause (no more than 1 second) , perhaps sensing I'm stunned, says "200 massage". I just continue on my way with no response.

I would not really even consider doing her, if was a freebie, as I am heading back to 35 year old GF who still has a fabulously sexy tight body, and I don't really like true Thai massage at all. I have been far to spoiled, associating with young ladies, even when I have to pay. I could easily do an older lady of 40 to 45 if she was in good shape and still a hottie I guess. This woman was really just far too ordinary. I guess many guys are married to some ordinary woman like this.[/QUOTE]Good God! It must have been a traumatizing experience. OTOH, old frumpy and dumpy women need love too. :-)

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp; 1543763]It is not all relative.

All eyes on Burma now. Hope the scene there it pans out well, it has potential.[/QUOTE]Totally agree! I've been in and out of Thailand for around 8-odd years and I think the quality has gone down hill. Years ago I used to drink / monger around Patpong, a mate used to live nearby so free accommodation, but now I mainly stick to Cowboy. I've noticed that the quality of the girls overall has generally decreased, especially in the past 18 months or so. Still some good lookers around but the average bar girls seems to be getting plumpier every visit.

Can't give you an update on Yangon but I con on Nay Pyi Taw, the capital, which is where I'm now living. Not a thing happening here. Asked one of our drivers if there were any girls at the KTV bar, once I managed to find one, and got a very curt no! He didn't seem impressed that I asked, maybe his sister works there?

On another note, all the political problems have driven down hotel prices, I'm in Bangkok for 1 night at the end of April and got the Hyatt for 4, 600 baht. I know I can get cheaper elsewhere but I'm a platinum member with them and as my flight lands at 8 am they will let me check in early. Got an email from the Westin in Suk advertising rooms starting from 3k as well.

[QUOTE=Duniawala;1543801]Good God! It must have been a traumatizing experience. OTOH, old frumpy and dumpy women need love too. :-)[/QUOTE]Probably the old one who used to hang on in Thermae.

As I read the forum today it is amusing to see all the griping about the girls not being as good looking or charging higher prices. Lets put the shoe on the other foot and see if it fits. Twenty years ago many good looking women and young girls out on the street and now only a few. That means you might have been there.!!!Think how they feel."Look, another one of those old guys who were here 20 years ago"." Not as good looking as they were before". ' "Not many to be choosy about going with." "I need the money so I will do it quickly and hopefully with my eyes closed." Complain as we do there is always the side of the story. Just pick what you like and enjoy yourself. Thankfully there are different flavors out there. Your 8 is my 5 and my 6 is your 2. Life will go on, just don't miss the boat

Looks like high season has hit Nana plaza. If mamasans saying they having a hard time recruiting hot girls then there you have it- I'm reporting as I see it! Theres soem NEW very mediocre Rainbow 4 girls-if anyone cares to take a look. LOL.

[QUOTE=Mackin;1543816]As I read the forum today it is amusing to see all the griping about the girls not being as good looking or charging higher prices. Lets put the shoe on the other foot and see if it fits. Twenty years ago many good looking women and young girls out on the street and now only a few. That means you might have been there.!!!Think how they feel."Look, another one of those old guys who were here 20 years ago"." Not as good looking as they were before". ' "Not many to be choosy about going with." "I need the money so I will do it quickly and hopefully with my eyes closed." Complain as we do there is always the side of the story. Just pick what you like and enjoy yourself. Thankfully there are different flavors out there. Your 8 is my 5 and my 6 is your 2. Life will go on, just don't miss the boat[/QUOTE]Well put. About twenty years ago when I was living in Bangkok I used to play golf on Sundays with a bunch of friends. One of these was an older gent who had an affinity for the Toy Bar on Soi Cowboy. So after a round of golf and a bowl of noodles we would head for the Toy Bar. There wasn't much action on a Sunday afternoon and when we got there the bar was empty of clients but full of nubile Siamese girls. Seeing out friend, the first thing they did was lock the door. Next they all took off all their clothes. And the party started. A few years ago I was in Bangkok with a client and after an excellent Vietnamese meal at Le Dalat on soi 23 we walked over to soi Cowboy. The place was jumping and we ordered beers. I was telling my friend about what happened on Sundays in the old days. He seemed skeptical until the mama-san interrupted. She said I was telling the truth and added,"I was one of the girls". She then bought me a drink, my first (and last) from a mama-san.

I've always enjoyed Soi 7's Bier Garten, the [i]potential[/i], the [i]anticipation[/i], though the [i]delivery[/i] can fall a bit short.

Stopped by for a quick drink before a trip across town to pick up a visa. Across the bar, spied a real Beauty. Eye contact, my smile got a BIG smile in return (standard BG SOP) , she sitting and chatting with a gf. Of a quality that she doesn't move: the moths visit the flame, the flame does not visit the moths. Given my imminent departure, didn't bother going over, giving her a smile and shrug as I departed.

2 hours later, visa in hand, contemplated a SOL visit, but with the bright [i]Flame[/i] still in short term memory, decided to revisit the BG. Quick pass, no obvious targets, so stepped outside to give Addicts MP a call. Requested my POC (provider of choice) , but got the dreaded "She on holiday" which can mean anything from her [i]monthly[/i] holiday to she's moved to a different MP and is no longer here but we're not telling anyone. "Have many other ladies, you come, see." Yes they do, but, for an unknown, many other places to see: Bamboo, Mango, Tulip, Annie's...

Decide to go back in to BG, have a drink, and ponder my choices. Take a seat on far wall so clear view of entrance. Turn to my left, and who do I spot: [i]Flame[/i] herself, sitting in the very SAME spot; gf gone but gf's purse still there. Make a note to have my surveillance radar checked; maybe it IS time to always wear my driving glasses. Given she's in the EXACT same spot, I'm thinking business might not be so good. Get the smile, so the moth moves to the flame. Up close, looks just as [i]bright[/i] as from afar. Diamonds can be found in the BG.

Exchange the world-wide wg littany (what's your name?, where you come from?, how long you stay [i]fill in city name here[/i]?) Few other pleasantries. She acknowledges she drinks and waits, the alcohol dulling the boredom. Hey, I'm a gentleman, always willing to help a lady overcome boredom. Bit surprised she says she's 37; some Thai's certainly age well. Beauty AND experience; definitely a sparkler. She then throws me, telling me to point out any girl I want, she knows all, and she'll have her come over. I tell her I [b]AM[/b] talking to the girl I want (I'm a big boy, don't need any intermediaries.) OK, that clarified. I ask if she knows a ST hotel (while, years ago, the Penthouse or the Playboy seemed the BG's wg's hotels of choice, heard one torn down, don't know the status of the other). She gives a BIG smile, saying ST no problem, "I make you happy". Fine, but as Ronnie Reagan said, "Trust but verify". She finishes her beer (good sign) , and my drink is almost finished as well. A few contract details, and we should be out the door...
[list][*]"You buy me beer?" Hmmm, maybe not. Umpire calls [b][i]Strike 1[/i][/b]. For me, the BG is a [u]means[/u] to an end, not the end itself. I don't come here for the stimulating conversation; other [i]stimulations[/i] in mind. I ignore the question; time's a wasting. Seems in BOTH parties' interest to seal the deal and be on our way to take care of the [u]primary[/u] reason to visit the BG; I have other places to be, she can return for the [i]double header[/i].

[*]I provide contract specs: 2 hours, 2 shots; 1 oral, 1 screw. Oops, she tells me she drinks only water and beer. So much for my happiness. Diamond beginning to show its flaws. Starting to wish I had stopped at the SOL first. Umpire calls [b][i]Strike 2[/i][/b].

[*]She specifies her specs: 1 hour, 1 shot (sure whichever [i]comes[/i] first.) With a SOL visit, that might have been an [u]outside[/u] possibility, but... Umpire calls [b][i]Strike 3, you're OUT [/i][/b], diamond turning to coal.

[*]Ever the optimist, she repeats her "You buy me beer? You tell her [the waitress]." I'm busy looking around, trying to catch my reflection; is there really "Stupid" stamped on my forehead? Yes, she's a beauty, and it's only a 100 baht, but looking can be done anywhere; this is Thailand. I give her a simple "my ow kap, chok dee."[/list]It's really amazing to see the wg [i]switch[/i] at work. I INSTANTLY go from an (obvious} low priority target to clutter. No counter offer, no continued marketing; I'm now in the [i]invisible universe[/i]. Her gf returns and they continue their conversation, waiting for other moths to appear. Likewise, I do the same, looking for other [i]flames[/i]

My temporary [i]blindness[/i] from [i]Flame[/i] is starting to recede. Turn to my right, and 2 stools over, what appears to be another flickering [i]flame[/i]; flickering as I'm looking into the window light and eyes trouble adjusting. Gentleman sitting next to her, but she seems [i]unattached[/i]. Eyes meet, get a nice smile. Don't want to step on any toes, so I wait to see if there's a done deal, also allowing my eyes to adjust to the light. Not QUITE as nice a face, but definitely a better body. Nice cleavage, big enough to show there's something there, not padding, yet not big enough to be [i]doctored[/i].

Welcoming smile, so I break out my assembly code and SR1 (shift right 1). She's waiting for a gf who hasn't shown up yet. When? Don't know, she has a client. Even though I know the answer, ask if she's only waiting. No, she too is looking for some [i]business[/i], even with both a coffee and a drink in front of her.

She's more hand's on marketing, feeling my thigh, asking me if I like massage. I answer with the ole "only massage?", and she acknowledges the obvious "and sex". She might not be THE [i]Flame[/i], but certainly a [i]flame[/i], and with a much [u]BETTER[/u] attitude. Gentleman says something to her, then departs.

She too knows a short time hotel, and the proposal of 2 hours, oral shot, massage, sex, pay after, NOT a problem. Asks for 2000; not worth my time to try and lower price. I ask for my bill, and tell the waitress to include hers. Unnecessary, seems it's already been covered. Thanks, Unknown Gentleman.

Me, I kind of miss the seediness of the ole Playboy or Penthouse places, they with their car port curtains. Seems now the ST hotel of choice is the World Inn on Soi 7/1. Given they also sell condoms, no need to stop at Soi 9's 7/11. I'm told the price for a room is 300, but when the adding machine is done, it's 640 baht. I question, but my error is quickly pointed out: it's 300 PER HOUR, and I've requested 2 hours, the additional 40 baht I'll assume is for the condoms. That's another unwelcome difference: at the Playboy or Penthouse, it was 300 for 2 or 3 hours. Modern times, so pay, and up we go.

Decent room for ST; the a/c works :) as does the TV :( both IMMEDIATELY switched on. Don't bother to protest. She readily strips off, and her body is as nice as I'd imagined. The bathroom, unlike the Playboy or Penthouse, has no tub, simply a hose and heater attached to a wall in the corner. Fine for the purposes at hand, but I do miss those old ST hotels (and no sex chair either). I also flashback to Addict massage. They have a much nicer room, especially if you opt for a tub.

Quick shower, she cleaning me in all the right places. Return to the bed, I'm [i]visibly[/i] ready, and before I know, she's got a condom on, with a "now I suck." Oops, MY error; make a mental note to add BBBJ to a proposal. Thing is, a CBJ will take me a LONG time to achieve a [i]goal[/i], but, bless her heart, she works away with a combination of mouth, tongue, and some great visuals. She asks if I want to screw, and that is a possibility as I'm beginning to lose [i]interest[/i], but I decide to take an alternate route to the desired destination: she's legit enough to provide Russian without a problem, though after [i]arriving[/i], she does slightly complain that now she'll have to wash her hair.

Both cleaned up, she starts to watch the Thai soap. I mention "massage?", and she jumps right to work, bringing back memories of certain PRC massages in Dubai. Unfortunately, they aren't good memories, along the lines of 2 minutes back, 2 minutes legs, 1 minute front, and done. I also flashback to last week's Addict's massage: there, at least with my [i]chosen one[/i], BBBJ seemingly to be a given, and, between rounds, a decent massage.

After another 5 minutes, she begins a [i]hand massage[/i], asking me if I will wake up for a 2nd round. 2 DECADES ago, a silly question, but now... I point out we have 2 HOURS, and it's only been 30 minutes. But she continues her efforts, a bit to my amusement. I'm thinking she might have to reset her [i]standard[/i] clock. Like I say, at the MP, the girl really knew how to allocate the time.

But, I'll be damned, her labors are beginning to bear fruit. She seizes the [i]opportunity[/i], and says she'll slip on the other condom. I'm a bit leery, mentioning I'm not fully [i]awake[/i] yet, and, high school lessons BURNED into my brain, know how difficult it is to put on that ONE unrolled condom. DON'T want to have to venture down to the front desk to get another, though, in hindsight, that might have increased my [i]stature[/i] with the staff. Pro that she is, she continues, some more oral, which is defeating HER purpose, but she rolls over on her back, spreading her legs (perhaps not a 180, but very much an obtuse angle, providing a most stimulating view) and gives the time honored call to the hunt, "you f*ck me now".

Number of positions, no complaints from her, and even with the a/c on, am dripping sweat, the intellectual part of my brain knowing that my cardiologist will be pleased with my exercise. Her sound effects fake, but not overly so, subdued enough to be stimulating rather than off-putting. NO "finish now" calls. The intellect recedes, primal forces emerge, and contract complete.

She quickly jumps up, returns from the bathroom with paper to collect the condom, then quickly starts to dress. Hmmm, unlike the MP, no "One more?" flirtatious questions... And unlike the MP, no "shower show" as I'm laying there relaxed in the last 15 minutes.

Fine. Take a look at my watch. WTF? Well, ONE of us needs to readjust their clock; it's just over an hour. I do admire her [i]work[/i], and am a bit amazed, though I will admit, chemicals were involved. Good enough, fits my [i]Cinderella Liberty[/i], and I know better to ask for a refund from the hotel. Just make a mental note to book an hour; if more time required, they can call and send someone up for the next hour's payment.
[list][*]Point: You can still find some gems at the BG.

[*]For a limited time, these days, all prices included, an MP just might be a better bet. Or spend longer on BG negotiations.[/list]
BG still provides some decent [i]entertainment[/i]. No guarantees, but, actually, that's one thing I like about it.

[QUOTE=11Bravo; 1543862]I've always enjoyed Soi 7's Bier Garten, the [i]potential[/i], the [i]anticipation[/i], though the [i]delivery[/i] Can fall a bit short.

Stopped by for a quick drink before a trip across town to pick up a visa. Across the bar, spied a real Beauty. Eye contact, my smile got a BIG smile in return (standard BG SOP) , she sitting and chatting with a gf. Of a quality that she doesn't move: the moths visit the flame, the flame does not visit the moths. Given my imminent departure, didn't bother going over, giving her a smile and shrug as I departed.

2 hours later, visa in hand, contemplated a SOL visit, but with the bright [i]Flame[/i] Still in short term memory, decided to revisit the BG. Quick pass, no obvious targets, so stepped outside to give Addicts MP a call. Requested my POC (provider of choice) , but got the dreaded "She on holiday" which can mean anything from her [i]monthly[/i] Holiday to she's moved to a different MP and is no longer here but we're not telling anyone."Have many other ladies, you come, see." Yes they do, but, for an unknown, many other places to see: Bamboo, Mango, Tulip, Annie's.

Decide to go back in to BG, have a drink, and ponder my choices. Take a seat on far wall so clear view of entrance. Turn to my left, and who do I spot: [i]Flame[/i] Herself, sitting in the very SAME spot; gf gone but gf's purse still there. Make a note to have my surveillance radar checked; maybe it IS time to always wear my driving glasses. Given she's in the EXACT same spot, I'm thinking business might not be so good. Get the smile, so the moth moves to the flame. Up close, looks just as [i]bright[/i] As from afar. Diamonds can be found in the BG.

Exchange the world-wide wg littany (what's your name, where you come from, how long you stay [i]fill in city name here[/i]?) Few other pleasantries. She acknowledges she drinks and waits, the alcohol dulling the boredom. Hey, I'm a gentleman, always willing to help a lady overcome boredom. Bit surprised she says she's 37; some Thai's certainly age well. Beauty AND experience; definitely a sparkler. She then throws me, telling me to point out any girl I want, she knows all, and she'll have her come over. I tell her I [b]AM[/b] Talking to the girl I want (I'm a big boy, don't need any intermediaries.) OK, that clarified. I ask if she knows a ST hotel (while, years ago, the Penthouse or the Playboy seemed the BG's wg's hotels of choice, heard one torn down, don't know the status of the other). She gives a BIG smile, saying ST no problem,"I make you happy". Fine, but as Ronnie Reagan said,"Trust but verify". She finishes her beer (good sign) , and my drink is almost finished as well. A few contract details, and we should be out the door.
[list][*]"You buy me beer?" Hmmm, maybe not. Umpire calls [b][i]Strike 1[/i][/b]. For me, the BG is a [u]means[/u] To an end, not the end itself. I don't come here for the stimulating conversation; other [i]stimulations[/i] In mind. I ignore the question; time's a wasting. Seems in BOTH parties' interest to seal the deal and be on our way to take care of the [u]primary[/u] Reason to visit the BG; I have other places to be, she can return for the [i]double header[/i].
[*]I provide contract specs: 2 hours. 2 shots; 1 oral. 1 screw. Oops, she tells me she drinks only water and beer. So much for my happiness. Diamond beginning to show its flaws. Starting to wish I had stopped at the SOL first. Umpire calls [b][i]Strike 2[/i][/b].
[*]She specifies her specs: 1 hour. 1 shot (sure whichever [i]comes[/i] First.) With a SOL visit, that might have been an [u]outside[/u] Possibility, but. Umpire calls [b][i]Strike 3, you're OUT [/i][/b], diamond turning to coal.
[*]Ever the optimist, she repeats her "You buy me beer? You tell her [the waitress]." I'm busy looking around, trying to catch my reflection; is there really "Stupid" stamped on my forehead? Yes, she's a beauty, and it's only a 100 baht, but looking can be done anywhere; this is Thailand. I give her a simple "my ow kap, chok dee."[/list]
It's really amazing to see the wg [i]switch[/i] At work. I INSTANTLY go from an (obvious} low priority target to clutter. No counter offer, no continued marketing; I'm now in the [i]invisible universe[/i]. Her gf returns and they continue their conversation, waiting for other moths to appear. Likewise, I do the same, looking for other [i]flames[/i][/QUOTE]Far wall? With clear view of entrance? I assume you couldn't mean back wall?. You must mean left side? Extended wall? Beer Garden beauty in her 30"s? And a regular who sits in one place? There are others kind of fitting that description but is this lady slender, very fine facial features, very elegant and stylish? 5-5? Pretty with long dark hair? And slightly exotic? If so, sounds like Miss M, and she mostly sits on left side 3/4th the way down, but will sometimes have you buy wine, so perhaps a different lady. If it is Miss M, IMHO she's looking for a permanent OTC, like with a ring. And seems to somewhat avoid the quick hit types, more into the conversationalist longer term types.

If its someone else, what does she look like?

I've really liked your spin. It tells that no matter how much you know already, you can still present the best of you to any situation, keep looking and keep enjoying whatever can be had.

At times, after having meet some characters similar to the ones in your story, I get to think that is nota big deal and dismiss the story in few lines, if any. That is wrong, any story can be entertraining when narrated properly as you did.

Started at Crazy House before it got too busy. Bought drinks for two girls (friends) who started only this Sat night. One had a cute face (Yui 24) and the other had a cute ass (Noi 2). Neither had the total package. I am enjoying the naked girls with shave pussies showing it all and few girls there have any operations. This bar is getting more and more popular as girls looks are a cut above other bars.

Went to Baccara looking for my buddy. Turns out he had recently left there to go to Rainbow 2. Boy, are the girls in there ugly! I mean relatively plain girls get a nose job, tit job, eye job, jaw job, and cheek job, and supposedly they are now beautiful with light skin. Half of them look similar to the lady boys across the way in Cockatoo. Okay one or two of the lady boys are actually better looking. Makes me think of the good old days 25 years ago when very few girls had any Ops at all.

However I talked to a very non typical Baccara girl working outside. No Ops, small face, brownish skin. Miaow is the name. Eventually go ST with her and she has very smooth skin and a very tight pussy. She comes after barely 3 mins of DATY, and says that not many customers are lick / sucking her out like that. Not sure about a repeat as pussy a bit small for me.

Decide to check out Cowboy 2 coyote bar. Turns out it is the only busy coyote bar and doesn't belong to the "Arab". I guess the others like Deja Vu, Midnight, Rio, Sahara, Spice Girls, all are his bars. Coyote girls at Cowboy 2 can be barfined at 2000 Baht (unlike most Coyote bars). I guess their ST fee is very steep too, possibly asking for 5K to 6K (yow) but I don't know what price is realistic after a negotiation. You can't really negotiate a price if you don't intend to buy. Bought drinks for Cat and Ploy. Lady drinks were 200. One of them previously worked at Deja Vu but said the manager there was a real idiot. In the past I have done girls at Deja Vu and Midnight but not sure if they were Arab bars at the time. I decided not to Spend a lot of money to find out if any were a good fuck at Cowboy 2 since, can get just as good looking girls elsewhere like Crazy House or even Long Gun. A few Cowboy 2 girls had nose jobs or tit jobs. In any case got a nice GF fuck today, so just one P4P girl was enough.

[QUOTE=Kaintuck;1543848]Well put. About twenty years ago when I was living in Bangkok I used to play golf on Sundays with a bunch of friends. One of these was an older gent who had an affinity for the Toy Bar on Soi Cowboy. So after a round of golf and a bowl of noodles we would head for the Toy Bar. There wasn't much action on a Sunday afternoon and when we got there the bar was empty of clients but full of nubile Siamese girls. Seeing out friend, the first thing they did was lock the door. Next they all took off all their clothes. And the party started. A few years ago I was in Bangkok with a client and after an excellent Vietnamese meal at Le Dalat on soi 23 we walked over to soi Cowboy. The place was jumping and we ordered beers. I was telling my friend about what happened on Sundays in the old days. He seemed skeptical until the mama-san interrupted. She said I was telling the truth and added,"I was one of the girls". She then bought me a drink, my first (and last) from a mama-san.[/QUOTE]The Kangaroo bar (Patpong) was a very quiet place at lunch times 20 to 25 years ago. I could go there and molest several girls. They did not seem to be shy about sucking cock, having their pants pulled down and pussy licked and probed in the bar, but for some strange reason wanted to go the back room to actually fuck, even though they would put on fucking shows at night. Could take multiple girls to the back room and fuck them all. The girl working behind the bar as cashier and mixing drinks was available for sex too. I still remember one girl with mammoth natural tits who was like a doll and wasn't very fat at all. Maybe some girls had a boyfriend working as the doorman there and that made them shy to fuck with everyone watching.

Of course fucking in the bar at SOL is quite normal.

I haven't been to Toy Bar more than once, and was a long while ago, but seem to remember there was no charge for BJ and girl groping as long as kept buying them drinks.

[QUOTE=11Bravo; 1543862]I've always enjoyed Soi 7's Bier Garten, the [i]potential[/i], the [i]anticipation[/i], though the [i]delivery[/i] Can fall a bit short.
[*]Ever the optimist, she repeats her "You buy me beer? You tell her [the waitress]." I'm busy looking around, trying to catch my reflection; is there really "Stupid" stamped on my forehead? Yes, she's a beauty, and it's only a 100 baht, but looking can be done anywhere; this is Thailand. I give her a simple "my ow kap, chok dee."[/list]
It's really amazing to see the wg [i]switch[/i] At work. I INSTANTLY go from an (obvious} low priority target to clutter. No counter offer, no continued marketing; I'm now in the [i]invisible universe[/i]. Her gf returns and they continue their conversation, waiting for other moths to appear. Likewise, I do the same, looking for other [i]flames[/i][/QUOTE]Great report.

She might have her "terms and conditions" but it seems that at her terms she is not putting together much business.

Is maybe a punter a day (1000b.) sufficient for her finance? And spend the rest of the day chatting with friends hoping some moth pays her the drinks to keep her seat at BG?

With the remote possi bility of scoring another quickie and double the earnings?

Is she having a cut from the girls she pimps (well. Pimping is an overstatement in BG, there is no need of a pimp there, and 95% of the punters are well experienced ones who knows the game)?

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp; 1543763]It is not all relative. Just walk down lower Sukhumwit (from Soi 3 to Asoke, including Soi 4) and count the number of passable-looking freelancers.

Pattaya is clearly better than Bangkok for mongering since about 2010, whereas before it was a bit of a wash (Bangkok having better looks and wider variety of venues, Pattaya having the sheer numbers and low prices).

You might be right that Bangkok might have world's best mongering scene among large cities, but only because the scene elsewhere started out inferior and is declining at a roughly similar rate.

No place has emerged as a new destination for mongering, and the old places haven't gotten better. Could be various factors, globalization, mobile phones, whatever.

All eyes on Burma now. Hope the scene there it pans out well, it has potential.[/QUOTE]Croc, I'm not qualified to comment on FLs. I mostly go to MPs, take MP girls on overnight outcalls or book escorts. I can find ladies in the MPs whom I'm happy with (maybe I just have low standards - haha); and I find good escorts at very reasonable prices are plentiful in Bangkok, though I think in most cases the MP girls are as good as all but the best escorts, and they're less expensive. I think there is general agreement that there are fewer attractive sex workers in Thailand than 10 years ago.

I agree with your evaluation of Pattaya. If one is only interested in mongering and looking for maximum bang for the buck, Pattaya is better. I prefer Bangkok because of all the other stuff that can be found there.

For a location to have a thriving P4P industry you need a lot of young women with no better alternative than to get paid to fuck men, some of whom may be rude, overweight and smelly. ;) As Billy Kwan said in the [I]Year of Living Dangerously[/I],"Starvation is a powerful aphrodisiac".

When poor women in developing countries start to make a little money they use it to better feed their children; find a better house to live in; look for educational opportunities for their children; and then they start to limit the number of children they have. They quickly figure out fewer children are better. So a global rise in the standard of living and better population control are a monger's worst enemies.

[QUOTE=El Flaco; 1543887]I've really liked your spin. It tells that no matter how much you know already, you can still present the best of you to any situation, keep looking and keep enjoying whatever can be had.

At times, after having meet some characters similar to the ones in your story, I get to think that is nota big deal and dismiss the story in few lines, if any. That is wrong, any story can be entertraining when narrated properly as you did.[/QUOTE]Thanks. Anyone who's been to the Bier Garten has experienced the same, and I figure that most guys know what to do when they get to the hotel, where to put it, etc., so try to provide a bit of color while describing the scene and common happenings.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1543904]Went to Baccara looking for my buddy. Turns out he had recently left there to go to Rainbow 2. Boy, are the girls in there ugly! I mean relatively plain girls get a nose job, tit job, eye job, jaw job, and cheek job, and supposedly they are now beautiful with light skin. Makes me think of the good old days 25 years ago when very few girls had any Ops at all.[/QUOTE]Agreed. I'll take a natural girl over a [i]doctored[/i] one any day. But perhaps only ourselves to blame. If a girl sees a [i]doctored[/i] girl gaining an advantage, might feel also needs surgery to even the playing field...

Gentlemen!

5 pages of political commentary, how about back to the main top of Intl SEX GUIDE.

Here is my 2 cents worth. In town for 2 nights. Friday night scene at the Thermae.

Nice mix of English speaking Farang, French / Italians and wow, an influx of Koreans and lots of Japanese. The JPs looked fairly young and are either working men tourists or perhaps someone that lives here. After all, a Japanese salary man would never be caught dead in a girlie bar in shorts and t-shirt. The young Koreans are mostly lookers and gawkers, shy to talk to the girls and kept to them selves. The Singaporeans seemed the most at ease and understood the game. A few old cynical Thai hands but all contribute to the vibe.

Lots of talent standing around. A few real stunners (9+) with attitudes but a lot of 6-8s that were friendly, chatty and reasonable. The market survey ranged from B1500-2500 (about US$ 50-80). The nice thing about the Thermae, at least based on reputation. No Lady Boys allowed. I've heard it both ways on the post ops, but that's another story.

A lot of girls were there after their day jobs, it seems to be a known spot for the ladies and a chance to catch a diamond in the rough or the occasional surprise for the punter.

Call me dense, but for rental, I'd rather have one that looked good enough but willing to go the extra mile than a drop dead gorgeous star fish.

I found me a pair that seemed to get along. We had a few drinks and agreed that I would settle on a choice. They both knew the game. I was supposed to pick one but just ONE. This kept the game competitive. I made them whisper terms and pricing in my ear, a la "dating game" style. We kept it light fun and non-committal. I then introduced an element that there was a wild card. Another hottie was making eye contact after these two didn't appear to close the trade immediately. I got propositioned on the way to the head by a very skilled almost pro. She wanted 2k. Pass, I was having fun just seeing where the night goes.

Keep in kind, I am no Brad Pitt. Just an average bloke, late 40s early 50s, like 70% of the bar.

Back to the two at the table. One was a 7 with a full back tatoo (not my thing, but man was she flirty and just cute as a button. Like something out of a Japanese anime cartoon) , the other had a very stout stocky body with a booty ass and real nice knockers, she promised unlimited activities even in a short term. Such a hard process to choose.

I guess this is the problem with Thai girls. They are small. So take 2 if you can.

Anyway, they are asking if I want short time or long time. Now, this is where I maybe born at night, but not last night. The usual trap here. Punters dilemma. Say short time and they are setting up with the girl friends for an after hours hunt. Say long time, and they get the inevitable phone call 75 min in with an emergency after you've paid them.

Ahhhhhh, Thailand, the land of smiles or was it scams. (One night in Bangkok going in my head)

I told them I could not make up my mind and was about to call it a night. I gave them each few hundred baht for a thank you cab fare (yes, I know it doesn't cost the locals that much, but hey it's like US$7, bar tip / tea money). They both jumped and asked if I was going with the hottie from across the bar (who wanted to horn in) , I said no, told them they were both so nice and I just not bear the thought of disappointing either one, that said, it was time for the hotel.

They offered to both go for ST at B1500 with an option to extend one girl for LT at 1000 more (2500 LT) Sort of trial to see who was better at my pleasure. So we head to the hotel, both girls are damn near giddy to be chosen. We get to the hotel (Dream, behind Robinsons Dept Store. Very G-friendly, yet discrete, classy and frequented by local Thais on business.). I tip the front desk 100 and ask they keep the girls ID. (It's SOP now, but the desk clerks really take good care with a small incentive)

We get to the room, no mention of money. I ask to put their cell phones with mine in the safe. OK, no hassles. We get to a 3 some vertical soapy scrub. Dream has a big standup glass door shower, no tub! 15 minutes of good scrub and tub, BBBJ from both as a warm up. A little cock on the ass play of the booty butt, the Jap anime is more protective of her ass, she is convinced in the end to allow a little play, just could not convert her to a level service. (Not really intended since there were no condoms in the shower).

Funny thing is the girls would not do lesbian kissing, hard rimming or a-level anal, but pretty much everything else is game. Multiple positions, switch outs, more mouth on cock play, the stocky one got really wet and came. The anime was being a little lazy, so I ate her while the big one was riding cow girl. Damn, I almost got them to kiss when they were sucking my fingers. The anime is hot now, so I started to fuck her hard. Pulled her legs up around her shoulders, she starts to fake moan. I fold her over on the side and pound the flesh. The fake moaning stops and she's holding her voice almost a weird grunt. I pound harder and harder. She let's out a deep groan and pulls the pillow over her head. The groans continue and she's screams a muffled, finish now, finish now. The other one rolls over, spread eagle and says do me, finish inside me. (Oh, I forgot to tell, I promised a B1000 bonus to the one that gets me to cum, trying to keep the game interesting). I roll the anime over on her knees, pound to almost and take it out. She looks over and it's like WTF? I am trying to get the stocky one on her knees to do both in simultaneous doggie style in a back and forth.

The anime has other ideas, she strips off the condom and starts to suck my rod. Damn, it took all my control not to just unload it then and there. The stocky one jumps up and starts tongue on nipple action then pushes the anime out of the way for some hard ball sucking and hand on shaft drive. The anime sticks her tongue on the tip of my cock and both are working hard. I roll over and hold both girls tightly, then proceed to shoot my load on both their faces. A little extra conditioner for the beautiful black hairs on their heads.

They wipe, we rest and cuddle, it's now 2:15 into the session. The girls want to know who will be kept LT, I keep the suspense on until a about of consciousness tells me a.) I really need some sleep. B.) they need to go on and do what they do at almost 3am.

Called down stairs after giving back their phones.

In the end, I give them both B2500, the shooter bonus + ST, they already has B200 can fare and parted a pair of happy hookers!

I figured it was comparable to Eden with a pair of semi-pros. Good change of pace.

Just a comment on cosmetic enhancements. Met a lovely gal in Thermae when visiting Bangkok about 9 months ago. Attractive face and knockout natural body from Issan in early 20s. Not GFE (no kissing, cuddling) My only complaint is she has no interest in LT although I keep on offering. Saw her again 2 days ago and still looking great. She insists that she needs to make her nose bigger like westerners and claims to be saving for surgery. She has a lovely short nose that many western girls would love to have. IMO She should be spending for English lessons (or maybe to fix her teeth although not that bad to me) if she wants to be a better companion or to get a non-p4p career.

Women are, in some ways, the same the world over.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1543872]Far wall? With clear view of entrance? I assume you couldn't mean back wall. You must mean left side? Extended wall? Beer Garden beauty in her 30"s? And a regular who sits in one place? There are others kind of fitting that description but is this lady slender, very fine facial features, very elegant and stylish? 5-5? Pretty with long dark hair? And slightly exotic? If so, sounds like Miss M, and she mostly sits on left side 3/4th the way down, but will sometimes have you buy wine, so perhaps a different lady. If it is Miss M, IMHO she's looking for a permanent OTC, like with a ring. And seems to somewhat avoid the quick hit types, more into the conversationalist longer term types.

If its someone else, what does she look like?[/QUOTE]Maybe the same, maybe "same same but different". Thai looks, done to perfection, in my eyes anyway.
[list][*]Far wall. The long side of the bar, wall closest to Sukhumvit, parallel to it.
[*]Certainly slender.
[*]Very fine facial features, great complexion, or else she's an expert at applying makeup as it's not obvious. Would not call her exactly exotic, more a fine example of Thai looks.
[*]Elegant and stylish, yes, without overdoing. Plain white blouse can look elegant on the right form. Could easily cross any hotel lobby, drawing looks for all the RIGHT reasons, without being obvious for her reason for being there.
[*]Can't comment on height as didn't see her standing, nor stretched out, only sitting on a bar stool. :(
[*]Below the shoulder hair, along the standard Thai style, serving VERY nicely to frame the face.
[*]Sitting 3/4 of way down, towards Foodland end, inside the main bar area, not on the cashier's side.
[*]At least on this day, definitely drinking beer. After I declined to provide additional liquid refreshments, at least those served by the bar, she ordered another round of beer for she and her gf, I being cautious enough to make sure it went on their tab, not mine (it did).
[*]The English didn't come across as that great, but perhaps that was only the free [i]sample[/i], better quality requiring a paid liquid entrance fee.
[*]While she did say she had no boyfriend (which I found hard to believe) , what else was she going to say? Permanent support perhaps her desired goal, after all, time is a-wasting, I just got the impression that, being the BG cream, she was looking for like in a [i]business[/i] partner.
[*]I caught the name as not quite "On", more an "Un".[/list]
[QUOTE=BionicMan; 1543909]Great report.

She might have her "terms and conditions" but it seems that at her terms she is not putting together much business.

Is maybe a punter a day (1000b.) sufficient for her finance? And spend the rest of the day chatting with friends hoping some moth pays her the drinks to keep her seat at BG? With the remote possibility of scoring another quickie and double the earnings?

Is she having a cut from the girls she pimps (well. Pimping is an overstatement in BG, there is no need of a pimp there, and 95% of the punters are well experienced ones who knows the game)?[/QUOTE]Thanks. Oh, I'm sure she's doing quite well, not exactly enthused with a small fish, simply biding her time to hook the one big one for the day. While she was willing to go for a quick ST for a quick score, I got the impression she was looking more for an evening's entertainment, though perhaps not a full night's one, with not all of said entertainment taking place in a hotel room.

I think a 1000 baht offer would only suffice to draw a look of [u]SCORN[/u], with the offer of "any girl" more a way to divert the actual [i]business[/i] end to "anyone but her". I'm sure I didn't fit her desired profile of a "not old" guy, or at least an elegantly dressed one. But a QUICK 2k for QUICK, [u]minimal[/u] work, why not?

To quote fellow member Sporadic, with some, it IS worth the price to see her hanging off your 'nard, but, in this case, I knew that after, I'd just be disappointed. While she would get me to the desired [i]destination[/i], it would be a [u]direct[/u], non-scenic [i]route[/i].

[QUOTE=Western787;1543775]I heard not many years ago when the Nana Go Go's closed each night, many of the girls would just move to Nana Parking Lot. Plus Soi 4 itself would have much larger crowds for example at 2 to 3 AM than now, even filling up the Nana Hotel restaurant late at night. Have you heard of that?[/QUOTE]On a recent pass of Nana car park, the. Numbers of girls was much lower than say 2008, ignoring the LBs, but standard of looks impressed me more than I ever saw before. I thought some were doable. Years ago I would always struggle to find anything although possible I was there at wrong time for best girls. Another possibility is business is down and more of the better lookers still available.

[QUOTE=11Bravo; 1543993]Maybe the same, maybe "same same but different". Thai looks, done to perfection, in my eyes anyway.
[list][*]Far wall. The long side of the bar, wall closest to Sukhumvit, parallel to it.
[*]Certainly slender.
[*]Very fine facial features, great complexion, or else she's an expert at applying makeup as it's not obvious. Would not call her exactly exotic, more a fine example of Thai looks.
[*]Elegant and stylish, yes, without overdoing. Plain white blouse can look elegant on the right form. Could easily cross any hotel lobby, drawing looks for all the RIGHT reasons, without being obvious for her reason for being there.
[*]Can't comment on height as didn't see her standing, nor stretched out, only sitting on a bar stool. .
[*]Below the shoulder hair, along the standard Thai style, serving VERY nicely to frame the face.
[*]Sitting 3/4 of way down, towards Foodland end, inside the main bar area, not on the cashier's side.
[*]At least on this day, definitely drinking beer. After I declined to provide additional liquid refreshments, at least those served by the bar, she ordered another round of beer for she and her gf, I being cautious enough to make sure it went on their tab, not mine (it did).
[*]The English didn't come across as that great, but perhaps that was only the free [i]sample[/i], better quality requiring a paid liquid entrance fee.
[*]While she did say she had no boyfriend (which I found hard to believe) , what else was she going to say? Permanent support perhaps her desired goal, after all, time is a-wasting, I just got the impression that, being the BG cream, she was looking for like in a [i]business[/i] Partner.
[*]I caught the name as not quite "On", more an "Un".[/list]
[/QUOTE]Although the seating location is correct, I think I have a different lady "Mo" in mind. Even if she were seated, after just a quick glance most people would conclude she's on the tall side (actual height 5-5).

Beer Garden by keeping the music volume low (with a pretty good selection of pop songs also) is setup quite well for conversation. Even aside from the takeout issue, just the in-"club" experience can be very entertaining. One only need a pulse + a few bahts, as low as 50 to 60 bahts for a drink and you get among other things 1. Girls smiling at you 2. Girls pretending they are happy to see you 3. Sometimes sending signals from across the room. 4. All sorts of winks and nods and pointing. All with none of the ladydrink pressure of regular bar girls. Note even though its a pickup place, sometimes you can go hours and barely notice any guy walking out the door with a girl. Now that can sometimes be a quality issue, but other times its obvious customers either don't have the bahts or just want to hang and enjoy the experience. I've noticed many times reasonably hot girls just getting discouraged and walking out after an hour or two, when no fish are biting.

[QUOTE=Western787;1543775]I heard not many years ago when the Nana Go Go's closed each night, many of the girls would just move to Nana Parking Lot. Plus Soi 4 itself would have much larger crowds for example at 2 to 3 AM than now, even filling up the Nana Hotel restaurant late at night. Have you heard of that?[/QUOTE]On a recent pass of Nana car park, the. Numbers of girls was much lower than say 2008, ignoring the LBs, but standard of looks impressed me more than I ever saw before. I thought some were doable. Years ago I would always struggle to find anything although possible I was there at wrong time for best girls. Another possibility is business is down and more of the better lookers still available.

Chemistry can make a huge difference with bargirls.

Suzie Wong was very quiet last night. Bow, Dtom, Knot, Noi, Anne available and even the stunner Nu Dee. Nu Dee came to sit with me first and I could sense immediately that the chemistry was different. She actually wanted to kiss me. I had taken her before but the performance on the bed was lacklustre. She did not like me for some reason at the time. Because I normally took 2 girls, or because some other girl had warned her about me? Now she was acting very different and playing up to me. We did not negotiate a price.

So took her for a short time, and sure enough, her performance was really quite excellent this time, even if could not take that much in the BBBJ. Very good GFE and very enjoyable fuck in several positions. She admitted that she now knew I was a "good guy" customer, perhaps different to what she first thought.

Another girl in the bar,"Knot" has been reported to be crap by others, but is always enthusiastic and passionate with me. So the lesson is, if you want a good performance, make the girl have fun, be relaxed, and like you.

Interviewing the girl at length about what she will do, and the price is not something I do. I don't believe it will set the right mood. Having the right chemistry can be everything.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;1543763]I have never heard anyone who's been around that things are more or less the same or better in agogos compared to 5 or 10 years ago. The managers are very loud in whining how recruiting even middling-looking girls is difficult now.[/QUOTE]The looks of girls in the bars have not changed that much. If I look back to photos of girls I took years ago, they were no prettier than what I get now. Its just I was less fussy back then, so girls seemed very pretty compared to back home.

Walked around Chatuchak weekend market yesterday and only spotted 4 or 5 natural real stunning girls. I just so much more fussy than 20 years ago.

Okay Some degradation in looks due to stuff like nose jobs.

Crazy House is able to recruit good looking girls and has new girls starting every day. They simply pay above the average rates. This bar is getting very busy. 2nd floor is opening up most nights now. Doesn't mean all the girls perform though. There are some very nice sweet girls there and some horrors (be*ches).

I think what has changed is girls can be much more mercenary and less having good fun oriented than 20 years ago. Performance of the girls has probably suffered. You have to choose very carefully these days and check the chemistry. Oilies and Soapies seem may have more crap girls for performance than years ago.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1544005]Although the seating location is correct, I think I have a different lady "Mo" in mind. Even if she were seated, after just a quick glance most people would conclude she's on the tall side (actual height 5-5).

Beer Garden by keeping the music volume low (with a pretty good selection of pop songs also) is setup quite well for conversation. Even aside from the takeout issue, just the in-"club" experience can be very entertaining. One only need a pulse + a few bahts, as low as 50 to 60 bahts for a drink and you get among other things 1. Girls smiling at you 2. Girls pretending they are happy to see you 3. Sometimes sending signals from across the room. 4. All sorts of winks and nods and pointing. All with none of the ladydrink pressure of regular bar girls. Note even though its a pickup place, sometimes you can go hours and barely notice any guy walking out the door with a girl. Now that can sometimes be a quality issue, but other times its obvious customers either don't have the bahts or just want to hang and enjoy the experience. I've noticed many times reasonably hot girls just getting discouraged and walking out after an hour or two, when no fish are biting.[/QUOTE]Agree on both points:[list][*]sounds like a different lady.
[*]I always enjoy the bier garten, nice place to pass an hour or two in the afternoon, having a couple of drinks (though the price of a lime juice is up to 75 baht, almost double of Foodland) , just watching the [i]circus[/i], and, on occasion, if someone compelling, off you go.[/list]

[QUOTE=Jungle_Bunny; 1543983]Gentlemen!

5 pages of political commentary, how about back to the main top of Intl SEX GUIDE.

Here is my 2 cents worth. In town for 2 nights. Friday night scene at the Thermae.[/QUOTE]Its such a shame the previous posters haven't bothered to recognise this fantastic report! I love that you made it into a competition, and it seems you were well rewarded.

Bravo, keep on posting!

After the [u]disappointment[/u] of the Rose

[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?2493-Bangkok-Places-to-AVOID!&p=1544043&viewfull=1#post1544043[/url]

stopped by the Kangaroo. Weekday, 3PM. No carny barker at the bottom of the stairs. Bar deserted except for mamasan and 1 thin provider. Offered the bar's [i]speciality[/i], but declined, she having no attraction for me, simply settling for a beer and the a/c. Appreciated that after my initial declination, not bothered anymore.

During my 15 minute stay, taking refuge from the day's heat, another worker arrived, about equally spaced on the [u]opposite[/u] side of average as the thin provider was on the other. She also attempted to elict some business, but no attraction for me, and again, once declined, did not bother further. I'm sure the 2 talked about the idiot falang who didn't seem to understand the bar's raison d'être.

While the bar's owners should appreciate the attempted upsell of the "back room", as the ONLY customer in the bar, if I was to partake, I wouldn't have appreciated the additional cost. Just points out the WINNING formula at the SOL: no extra charge for the room, and if occupied, or the customer uninterested, girls not shy about taking care of business in the bar itself.

Given the hour, can't say I was crushed, but, unlike previous years where even mid-afternoon, there was a selection of [i]servers[/i], seems these days, the decline in [i]server[/i] numbers apparent. Seems like only the SOL has withstood the decline.

[QUOTE=Jungle_Bunny;1543983]Market report Thermae[/QUOTE]Great FR, well done and well played. Salute.

[QUOTE=JungleBunny]Anyway, they are asking if I want short time or long time. Now, this is where I maybe born at night, but not last night. The usual trap here. Punters dilemma. Say short time and they are setting up with the girl friends for an after hours hunt. Say long time, and they get the inevitable phone call 75 min in with an emergency after you've paid them.[/QUOTE]There is no problem. You only pay at the end. You discuss the duration. If they have to leave early, you simply pay less.

The inevitable phone call 75 mins in is very rare in my experience, but occasionally happens girl is in a rush due to another appointment.

The most common problem is that my idea of LT is 8 hours where some girls think it is 4 hours. 4 hours is no use to me at all. Some girls need to leave by 5am. This needs to be checked first.

Speaking of change, I would like to survey a couple if long term bargirls and ask how much the customers have changed. Are the aholes much more prevalent now?

As for prices 1500 has been the oily tip for many years. Back at the time of world stock market crash, sex actually got a lot cheaper due to greatly devalued Thai baht compared to my home currency. I remember I could get sex in CP2 Soapy for a 1000 tip 12 years ago but that was worth 1500 at today's exchange rate.

I think guys are complaining about change a little too much, and really need to consider a fair comparison.

Those that want a less developed country can go to Phnom Phen. I may take tour of Siem Riep this year with a hottie who speaks Cambodian fluently.

I guess it was much more normal to take girls for several days 10 to 20 years back, as would not cost much.

[QUOTE=Syzygies; 1544027]Chemistry can make a huge difference with bargirls.[/QUOTE]However that chemistry really isn't completely known until things are consummated back at the hotel. In fact that's the answer to the ST vs LT 4 hr vs 8 hr and so forth dilemma. Because while "chemistry" can be determined at some level in the bar or Go Go club, its not until the parties get back to the hotel and begin the session that things get determined. Although I see the issue being muddled up, "chemistry" IMHO isn't really about getting her off, or some kind of mutual romance BS, its just the general vibe, just whether the parties enjoy each other as people. While its always a job for the provider, many prefer certain customers, and any perceptive customer can pick up those vibes

The provider (the party with the biggest concerns) makes that assessment in the first hour of the session and can encompass many characteristics of the customer, detailed physical factors, the way he treats the girl, etc . And the customer makes his assessment and senses the response from the lady.

Except in special circumstances point is always go ST and then play it by ear and (assuming the lady wants it) possibly turn a ST into an extended ST or regular LT. At Go Go's for example you need to take them late enough (11:30 weekdays or by 12:30 weekends) that she's not thinking about running back to get re-barfined - HOWEVER early enough to have time in the evening to make the ST vs extended ST/LT decision.

In any case except for some hardcore porno turn-on some guys might prefer for their own reasons - generally IMHO (despite the reality) its best to never treat a provider like she's a hooker. In fact that factor alone vastly increases the odds of getting DFK along with other GFE interaction.

There have been a lot of good things said about Crazy House but I've heard the girls are only interested in Japanese and Asian men. Have any posters actually taken one of these Crazy House "stunners" or have you just sat on your arses ogling them?

[QUOTE=Skepti10; 1544042]Its such a shame the previous posters haven't bothered to recognise this fantastic report! I love that you made it into a competition, and it seems you were well rewarded.

Bravo, keep on posting![/QUOTE]Too many reports of Thermae girls turning their noses up at non-Asian guys. Who wants to go to a bar full of haughty girls who turn away from you because of your race? It seems the only girls a white guy can hope for in Thermae are the bottom feeders.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1544087]Speaking of change, I would like to survey a couple if long term bargirls and ask how much the customers have changed. Are the aholes much more prevalent now?[/QUOTE]Careful what you wish for as their prevalance along with other sloppy, smelly, drunk Farangs is a blessing in disguise in some ways for the remaining Farangs. Yes, it hurts the image and creates policies tagging all Farangs a certain way, but those can be mitigated.

And while Japanese are favored, they do have extremely high nicotine addiction rates vs very low smoking rates for Thai females. (8 to 1 in fact) , Note Thai male smoking rates are almost as high as Japan, and therefore not suprising LFK and DFK have only recently become more common in normal Thai BF / GF situations.

[QUOTE=*****man;1544125]Too many reports of Thermae girls turning their noses up at non-Asian guys. Who wants to go to a bar full of haughty girls who turn away from you because of your race? It seems the only girls a white guy can hope for in Thermae are the bottom feeders.[/QUOTE]Well its not quite that bad yet, but with ultra cuties? Probably true, but sort of hot and kind of cute girls? Not absolutely true. The lineup girls (not at the bar) and particularly ones with the cutesy Jap sytle hairdos, they are probably not good bets regardless of looks, until very late evening.

These girls are simply going with the probabilities, can you blame them?

Under 35 stud type Farangs do OK with alot of girls there(ultra ultra cuties?, remotely possible), but one wonders why they got to pay for anything in the first place.

Part of the entertainment of Thermae in fact is watching typically average middle age or older Farangs get shot down. While I don't wish this upon anybody, especially guys that may have come from half way around the world, I suspect most haven't done much homework on the place, as when they do the "inspect the troops" style walk-by (which any Jap with a pulse and a dick gets away with in there) -after they get shot down, dissed or given dirty looks by girl after girl, they get this confused/ embarrassed look thinking maybe "why the hell are these girls standing here for hours then?"

Note while every guy HAS to buy a drink when he enters Thermae, the women don't, so the girls standing there in the lineup with their night bags ready-to-go are nearly always drink free, so some Farangs may offer them a drink and call them briefly to the bar, and in those cases I've seen some ultra cuties act very polite, even with older Farangs, but in those cases over time you invariably see the girls excusing themselves to go back to the lineup.

Bangkok appears to be in some kind of transition phase in regard to P4P and provider selectiveness, so its not going to necessarily work so well anymore for drop-by (non resident or non frequent visitor) type mongers focused on mid 8 or higher girls.

Best strategy at Thermae?, buy the popcorn and enjoy the show, and just see what evolves..

Thermae under Thai law could keep all Farangs out, but right now the show makes them money.

gentlemen,

i'm looking for a girl who can not only deepthroat but take a full on face fuck. i won't have much time in bangkok to do a lot of looking. can anyone make a suggestion or two? any names stick out at places like dr bjs, soms, kangaroo, lolipop, [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord900][CodeWord900][/url], etc?

no star of light recommendations though please.

also is kob's place out of business? never been but checked the level above star of light and couldn't find it last visit. is it gone?

thanks much

[QUOTE=*****man;1544125]Too many reports of Thermae girls turning their noses up at non-Asian guys. Who wants to go to a bar full of haughty girls who turn away from you because of your race? It seems the only girls a white guy can hope for in Thermae are the bottom feeders.[/QUOTE]Perhaps the worst change of all in BKK. From 99 till '07 I was in Thermae on average 4 nights a week. Probably pulled way in excess of 10 gals there. It was a big party almost every night. Gals were fun, interactive, grabbed your johnson, were very forward, and most liked to drink and have a great time. Now they stand and say little as the Japanese parade by. Sadly, it is their club now. I don't drop in too often as it just angers me to have working girls turn their noses up at me while cooing over a 65 year old Japanese dude with trousers up to his armpits. It is kind of sad and funny to see a great looking gal leave with one of these trolls. We get a good belly laugh, and I am sure it endears us to all the other Japanese hunters there.

But best wait staff in BKK. They all still greet me by name, know what I drink, and give that all knowing smile when I walk in.

Things change and when it comes to P4P in BKK, usually not for the better. Thermae is the prime example.

[QUOTE=Western787;1544114]In fact that factor alone vastly increases the odds of getting DFK along with other GFE interaction.[/QUOTE]Of the hundreds of working girls I have been with in BKK, I can count on two hands the ones that did not enjoy DFK.

[QUOTE=*****man;1544125]Too many reports of Thermae girls turning their noses up at non-Asian guys. Who wants to go to a bar full of haughty girls who turn away from you because of your race? It seems the only girls a white guy can hope for in Thermae are the bottom feeders.[/QUOTE]You are correct. The real lookers would not [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] on a white man if he was on fire. Main reason is that is she is seen leaving with a white dude, the Japanese will not go with her anymore and her friends will give her a hard time.

One of my good friends used to see one of the ultra hotties in Thermae. She would not be seen leaving with him, opting instead to meet him around the block up Soi 15. And he was a very handsome 28 years old at the time.

The Japanese are very racist dudes. They feel the same way about white dudes poking gals they are doing as some racist white folk do about black dudes doing chicks they do. Personally my attitude is "a quick shower and she is as good as new."

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1544145]Of the hundreds of working girls I have been with in BKK, I can count on two hands the ones that did not enjoy DFK.[/QUOTE]Enjoy? Then you mean you got kissing with all but 10 out of 100's? So 98% or so of all providers (even first time with you) have offerred you kissing. That is not typical.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1544114]Except in special circumstances point is always go ST and then play it by ear and (assuming the lady wants it) possibly turn a ST into an extended ST or regular LT. At Go Go's for example you need to take them late enough (11:30 weekdays or by 12:30 weekends) that she's not thinking about running back to get re-barfined. HOWEVER early enough to have time in the evening to make the ST vs extended ST / LT decision.

In any case except for some hardcore porno turn-on some guys might prefer for their own reasons. Generally IMHO (despite the reality) its best to never treat a provider like she's a hooker. In fact that factor alone vastly increases the odds of getting DFK along with other GFE interaction.[/QUOTE]I agree with most of what you say taking ST first. Even with good chemistry you can't guarantee good bed compatibility.

However I don't agree with waiting till 11:30 pm. With the most popular girls you will have low chances to get them except when they just returned. I tend to take them very early before the other guys get there. The girls like the fact they can go with me 2 hrs and still have plenty of time to pick up another customer, or a late pre booking.

I have been known to take a girl even before opening time.

I should add though that late is currently ok as business seems very slow.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1544144]Perhaps the worst change of all in BKK. From 99 till '07 I was in Thermae on average 4 nights a week. Probably pulled way in excess of 10 gals there. It was a big party almost every night. Gals were fun, interactive, grabbed your johnson, were very forward, and most liked to drink and have a great time. Now they stand and say little as the Japanese parade by.[/QUOTE]Used to be a semi-frequent visitor from mid-90's to early 00's. I remember when it was in the previous building, and then when it moved to the basement of the current building. As it was first described to me back then, maybe the closest thing to the Star Wars bar you'll find. Three ring circus, seemed to be the refugee of last resort for a lot of castoffs, both server and client. But a fun place to visit, if you hadn't found a [i]friend[/i] in Nana or Cowboy, there was always the possibility of finding [i]company[/i] there. Or, if not, a last couple of drinks and some visual entertainment before heading home.

[QUOTE=Western787;1544137]Best strategy at Thermae?, buy the popcorn and enjoy the show, and just see what evolves.[/QUOTE]Seems that even though things change, some things stay the same. Thermae was always one of the better shows in town.

Hi folks,

I will be at Krungsri River Hotel in Ayuttahaya for few days before I go to BKK. Is there any action there?

Can you recommend any place or escort for the hotel?

Thanks for the help.

[QUOTE=*****man;1544123]There have been a lot of good things said about Crazy House but I've heard the girls are only interested in Japanese and Asian men. Have any posters actually taken one of these Crazy House "stunners" or have you just sat on your arses ogling them?[/QUOTE]It's not true that all the girls only want Japanese customers, however there are certainly a percentage of bad girls who are looking for 3k for a quickie.

New girls 2 and 24 are nice girls however one has the face and the other has the ass. Neither have a total package. No. 91 and 94 are examples of bad girls. I did not take them but their bad character is fairly obvious.

I took Mint who changes number often. She is a sweet girl and have repeated. I also took a girl with big tits. She was rather passive but still fuckable. A bit too young most likely.

Crazy House is a good place to ogle and get horny, but I suspect a small percentage of the stunners will actually be good. I can't be sure as did not want to sample a significant number of them. .

[QUOTE=Syzygies; 1544204]I agree with most of what you say taking ST first. Even with good chemistry you can't guarantee good bed compatibility.

However I don't agree with waiting till 11:30 pm. With the most popular girls you will have low chances to get them except when they just returned. I tend to take them very early before the other guys get there. The girls like the fact they can go with me 2 hrs and still have plenty of time to pick up another customer, or a late pre booking.

I have been known to take a girl even before opening time.

I should add though that late is currently ok as business seems very slow.[/QUOTE]What I meant to say was within the context where the goal is to possibly get a LT and a good vibe for that LT . In that sense as far as Go Go's one might want to look at that 11:30 to 12:30 window. Its not easily done, because the most are not favorable to LT in the first place, and getting a good vibe is not going to always happen The point is working those time frames increases the odds if that is what one wants. My guess is that most customers 80% of the time are really focused on just ST anyways, and nothing else, so in that context you are correct, the hotties get picked off early even in the past "Non-High High Season" so you'd have to get them near opening or before their 2nd or perhaps 3rd ST.

Now of course with "cute" girls (not stunners per se) they were often around at 11; 30 ready for their barfine, the protests and lack of tourists accentuating that factor of course.

[QUOTE=Western787;1544151]Enjoy? Then you mean you got kissing with all but 10 out of 100's? So 98% or so of all providers (even first time with you) have offerred you kissing. That is not typical.[/QUOTE]Yep, enjoy. Women like to kissing, its intimate, and that includes Thai women. I find it completely typical as do most of the guys I know and yes, the first time. Most of my encounters with gogo gals and FLs were one time only. For my first seven years here I rarely repeated.

Minute I hit the ST Hotel room I had my tongue down the gals throat. I would not say offered as I just go at it like I would go at it with any girlfriend, gig, or sex partner. When I would hear,"Shower, Shower," I would continue to kiss them relentlessly and say "after, after." I set the tone and the pace. I found the majority tended to let themselves go, feeding off my intensity. Really never had complaints.
Maybe this has changed as well with the scene becoming more sterile and a more "professional" attitude prevailing. As I said before, all my running buds back in the day never complained about girls not kissing. My first night ever in BKK I sat in Long Gun making out with a gal for about an hour before taking her to my hotel. It was very common to sit with a gal in a bar and kiss, feel, and play. Of course I have always been in good shape, clean shaven, well dressed, and don't smoke. Those things make a difference. If you are overweight, are not well groomed, wear cargo shorts, flip-flops, and a Red Bull T-Shirt, you might have a bit harder of a time getting gals to kiss you.


With oily girls it is far different. I know the service is going to be pretty good, so I kick back and enjoy.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot; 1544265]Of course I have always been in good shape, clean shaven, well dressed, and don't smoke. Those things make a difference. If you are overweight, are not well groomed, wear cargo shorts, flip-flops, and a Red Bull T-Shirt, you might have a bit harder of a time getting gals to kiss you.[/QUOTE]Absolutely. Clean shaven, in shape, well dressed, non-smoker status. Otherwise you are cutting the odds, I agree. Ok, so you're initiating ("just going at it") DFK or LFK and on that basis you get few turndowns. OK, that's not bad. Unless I ask for it specifically upfront which might happen ocassionally if the girl looks exceptionally kissable, normally I just let them make the move in that regard, and I figure about 50% overall excluding the rarer "ask up front" situations. Of course I AM going to no matter what kiss, them in them near the mouth, on the neck, earlobes, and cheeks and so forth, the usual fake kissing things. It either then goes to DFK or LFK or not, and in some cases with certain girls as the session moves along its not something I am always looking for, and part of that relates to the vibe of the session, and whether I sense a hardcore hooker thing as the session moves forward. Hardcore hookers don't exactly appeal to me in regard to authentic kissing.

[QUOTE=Jungle_Bunny; 1543983]Gentlemen!

5 pages of political commentary, how about back to the main top of Intl SEX GUIDE.

Here is my 2 cents worth. In town for 2 nights. Friday night scene at the Thermae.

Nice mix of English speaking Farang, French / Italians and wow, an influx of Koreans and lots of Japanese. The JPs looked fairly young and are either working men tourists or perhaps someone that lives here. After all, a Japanese salary man would never be caught dead in a girlie bar in shorts and t-shirt. The young Koreans are mostly lookers and gawkers, shy to talk to the girls and kept to them selves. The Singaporeans seemed the most at ease and understood the game. A few old cynical Thai hands but all contribute to the vibe.

Lots of talent standing around. A few real stunners (9+) with attitudes but a lot of 6-8s that were friendly, chatty and reasonable. The market survey ranged from B1500-2500 (about US$ 50-80). The nice thing about the Thermae, at least based on reputation. No Lady Boys allowed. I've heard it both ways on the post ops, but that's another story.

A lot of girls were there after their day jobs, it seems to be a known spot for the ladies and a chance to catch a diamond in the rough or the occasional surprise for the punter.

Call me dense, but for rental, I'd rather have one that looked good enough but willing to go the extra mile than a drop dead gorgeous star fish.

I found me a pair that seemed to get along. We had a few drinks and agreed that I would settle on a choice. They both knew the game. I was supposed to pick one but just ONE. This kept the game competitive. I made them whisper terms and pricing in my ear, a la "dating game" style. We kept it light fun and non-committal. I then introduced an element that there was a wild card. Another hottie was making eye contact after these two didn't appear to close the trade immediately. I got propositioned on the way to the head by a very skilled almost pro. She wanted 2k. Pass, I was having fun just seeing where the night goes.

Keep in kind, I am no Brad Pitt. Just an average bloke, late 40s early 50s, like 70% of the bar.

Back to the two at the table. One was a 7 with a full back tatoo (not my thing, but man was she flirty and just cute as a button. Like something out of a Japanese anime cartoon) , the other had a very stout stocky body with a booty ass and real nice knockers, she promised unlimited activities even in a short term. Such a hard process to choose.

I guess this is the problem with Thai girls. They are small. So take 2 if you can.

Anyway, they are asking if I want short time or long time. Now, this is where I maybe born at night, but not last night. The usual trap here. Punters dilemma. Say short time and they are setting up with the girl friends for an after hours hunt. Say long time, and they get the inevitable phone call 75 min in with an emergency after you've paid them.

Ahhhhhh, Thailand, the land of smiles or was it scams. (One night in Bangkok going in my head)

I told them I could not make up my mind and was about to call it a night. I gave them each few hundred baht for a thank you cab fare (yes, I know it doesn't cost the locals that much, but hey it's like US$7, bar tip / tea money). They both jumped and asked if I was going with the hottie from across the bar (who wanted to horn in) , I said no, told them they were both so nice and I just not bear the thought of disappointing either one, that said, it was time for the hotel.

They offered to both go for ST at B1500 with an option to extend one girl for LT at 1000 more (2500 LT) Sort of trial to see who was better at my pleasure. So we head to the hotel, both girls are damn near giddy to be chosen. We get to the hotel (Dream, behind Robinsons Dept Store. Very G-friendly, yet discrete, classy and frequented by local Thais on business.). I tip the front desk 100 and ask they keep the girls I'd. (It's SOP now, but the desk clerks really take good care with a small incentive)

We get to the room, no mention of money. I ask to put their cell phones with mine in the safe. OK, no hassles. We get to a 3 some vertical soapy scrub. Dream has a big standup glass door shower, no tub! 15 minutes of good scrub and tub, BBBJ from both as a warm up. A little cock on the ass play of the booty butt, the Jap anime is more protective of her ass, she is convinced in the end to allow a little play, just could not convert her to a level service. (Not really intended since there were no condoms in the shower).

Funny thing is the girls would not do lesbian kissing, hard rimming or a-level anal, but pretty much everything else is game. Multiple positions, switch outs, more mouth on cock play, the stocky one got really wet and came. The anime was being a little lazy, so I ate her while the big one was riding cow girl. Damn, I almost got them to kiss when they were sucking my fingers. The anime is hot now, so I started to fuck her hard. Pulled her legs up around her shoulders, she starts to fake moan. I fold her over on the side and pound the flesh. The fake moaning stops and she's holding her voice almost a weird grunt. I pound harder and harder. She let's out a deep groan and pulls the pillow over her head. The groans continue and she's screams a muffled, finish now, finish now. The other one rolls over, spread eagle and says do me, finish inside me. (Oh, I forgot to tell, I promised a B1000 bonus to the one that gets me to cum, trying to keep the game interesting). I roll the anime over on her knees, pound to almost and take it out. She looks over and it's like WTF? I am trying to get the stocky one on her knees to do both in simultaneous doggie style in a back and forth.

The anime has other ideas, she strips off the condom and starts to suck my rod. Damn, it took all my control not to just unload it then and there. The stocky one jumps up and starts tongue on nipple action then pushes the anime out of the way for some hard ball sucking and hand on shaft drive. The anime sticks her tongue on the tip of my cock and both are working hard. I roll over and hold both girls tightly, then proceed to shoot my load on both their faces. A little extra conditioner for the beautiful black hairs on their heads.

They wipe, we rest and cuddle, it's now 2:15 into the session. The girls want to know who will be kept LT, I keep the suspense on until a about of consciousness tells me a.) I really need some sleep. B.) they need to go on and do what they do at almost 3am.

Called down stairs after giving back their phones.

In the end, I give them both B2500, the shooter bonus + ST, they already has B200 can fare and parted a pair of happy hookers!

I figured it was comparable to Eden with a pair of semi-pros. Good change of pace.[/QUOTE]Interesting commmentary. Phones in the safe? LOL, damn cells, what a pain sometimes they can be with these girls. The smarter ones I notice, perhaps after one outbound safety related call, will shut it down.

Do you guys really want to put your tongue into a mouth that has recently been sucking another guy's penis, not to mention licking his arsehole?

I remember the Kangaroo in the late '70s when is was best known for giving blow jobs at the bar. I used to take visitors there for the experience. First guy to come pays for both. One day the mama-san asked me to be a training aid for a new girl who had just arrived from the Isaan. Her cherry was being sold the next day to a Sino-Thai for B6, 000. Today was training day. Since I spoke Thai mama-san offered me a freebie while she taught the new girl how to give a BJ in the back room. A good time was had by all, especially me.

[QUOTE=Western787;1544314]Absolutely. Clean shaven, in shape, well dressed, non-smoker status. Otherwise you are cutting the odds, I agree. Ok, so you're initiating ("just going at it") DFK or LFK and on that basis you get few turndowns. OK, that's not bad. Unless I ask for it specifically upfront which might happen ocassionally if the girl looks exceptionally kissable, normally I just let them make the move in that regard, and I figure about 50% overall excluding the rarer "ask up front" situations. Of course I AM going to no matter what kiss, them in them near the mouth, on the neck, earlobes, and cheeks and so forth, the usual fake kissing things. It either then goes to DFK or LFK or not, and in some cases with certain girls as the session moves along its not something I am always looking for, and part of that relates to the vibe of the session, and whether I sense a hardcore hooker thing as the session moves forward. Hardcore hookers don't exactly appeal to me in regard to authentic kissing.[/QUOTE]On a very few occasions I have had issues with my approach and most of those issues were recently. Recent as in '10 to '11 as I don't really take gogo or FL girls now. I would never really ask girls, now it seems you have to discuss everything, kind of like a working girl in the West, and truthfully I really would rather pass if I have to do that sort of interview.

When I would get to the room and the gal would not want to kiss, let me finger them, etc, I would just get up, put my clothes on, give a very small amount of money, say 100. 200 baht and leave. When the gal asks me what's wrong, I tell her in Thai that I expect her to perform like she is in a porn movie or she as if she is with her boyfriend I also make it very clear that I don't want her to do anything she is not comfortable with and finally I tell that that I am in no sense of the word angry as no one should do what they don't want to do. I only had one girl in 14 years who got horsey with me after. In fact, I still see one or two of these girls out in FL places and they are very friendly to me. I imagine there are many guys who get really aggressive when they are not getting the service they want.

I have found that up until recently sessions could easily be led by the male, now it seems that more and more hookers have "rules." "I don't do this, don't touch me there." Might as well head to a brothel in Nevada if one is going to play that game.

[QUOTE=*****man;1544335]Do you guys really want to put your tongue into a mouth that has recently been sucking another guy's penis, not to mention licking his arsehole?[/QUOTE]As I said, a quick shower, shot of mouthwash, and she is as good as new. Does not even enter into my head. If that bothers a dude, he might want to rethink mongering.

[quote=*****man;1544123]there have been a lot of good things said about crazy house but i've heard the girls are only interested in japanese and asian men. have any posters actually taken one of these crazy house "stunners" or have you just sat on your arses ogling them?[/quote]be very careful if you take a girl from crazy house as quite a lot of them are ****. recently i spoke to a girl who works there. she's in her late thirties and she complained to me that she has to compete with 14 and 15 yo! i said "wtf"?"yes there are girls as young as 14 and 15" she said.

what striked me was that she didn't seem to care much that they are that young. she only complained that she has to compete with them.

[QUOTE=*****man;1544335]Do you guys really want to put your tongue into a mouth that has recently been sucking another guy's penis, not to mention licking his arsehole?[/QUOTE]Despite what read in here, I don't think "rimming" or whatever hell you call it is being done to all or most customers, especially not serially in close proximity by typical providers such as Go Go girls, FLs, and part-timers (Oils perhaps one exception). Even across classes of providers in Bangkok most of their customers I don't believe in fact are mongers per se, and many guys just don't want a girls face in or around their ass- myself included.

Now on the other issue, not much you can do about it unless you just give up DFK and LFK. Lets assume you never kiss providers, well you are still getting a BBBJ from a girl that (under your argument) just gave a BBBJ to another guy, and you're doing FS with them when they just did FS with somebody else. I Lets say you do DATY (perhaps you skip that too?) well that girl may have just went BBFS, and this at times can even include hot Go Go dancers, who for whatever reason sometimes just take it BB

[QUOTE=Western787; 1544407]Despite what read in here, I don't think "rimming" or whatever hell you call it is being done to all or most customers.

(Oils perhaps one exception).

Well that girl may have just went BBFS, and this at times can even include hot Go Go dancers, who for whatever reason sometimes just take it BB[/QUOTE]Regarding rimming, I think you are right. This is an "exotic" service you're more likely to find at Tulip, Eden or from some of the PSE specialists at the oilies. Also, good escorts normally offer rimming. Read the descriptions of services offered and it almost always appears. However, escorts see fewer clients, perhaps only one a day. The good agencies do insist that the clients practice good hygiene. Escorts are adamant that they don't care what a client looks like so long as he is clean. As for the MPs, don't sessions always start in the shower or bath?

Regarding bareback, I mentioned in a post some time ago that a while back a fellow on ISG, whom I believe to be Thai, exchanged some PMs with me. He said he was a friend of several MP girls. He claimed bareback is much more common than many guys realize. According to him, virtually all the girls at the more hardcore MPs do bareback on a very regular basis; basically, if the clients insists they oblige. He also said all of them periodically contract STDs; and large numbers of them have hepatitis B, which they are not treating.

Our hobby is not without risks. It's best to balance having fun and playing safe.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1544407]Despite what read in here, I don't think "rimming" or whatever hell you call it is being done to all or most customers, especially not serially in close proximity by typical providers such as Go Go girls, FLs, and part-timers (Oils perhaps one exception). Even across classes of providers in Bangkok most of their customers I don't believe in fact are mongers per se, and many guys just don't want a girls face in or around their ass- myself included.

Now on the other issue, not much you can do about it unless you just give up DFK and LFK. Lets assume you never kiss providers, well you are still getting a BBBJ from a girl that (under your argument) just gave a BBBJ to another guy, and you're doing FS with them when they just did FS with somebody else. I Lets say you do DATY (perhaps you skip that too?) well that girl may have just went BBFS, and this at times can even include hot Go Go dancers, who for whatever reason sometimes just take it BB[/QUOTE]Never thought I would be into being rimmed, but after having it done a couple of times at Tulip back in the day, I must admit I really want it on the menu. I have found that if you rim the gal, she is likely to get the hint and rim you. You would be surprised at how many gals will.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch; 1544419]According to him, virtually all the girls at the more hardcore MPs do bareback on a very regular basis; basically, if the clients insists they oblige. He also said all of them periodically contract STDs; and large numbers of them have hepatitis B, which they are not treating.

Our hobby is not without risks. It's best to balance having fun and playing safe.[/QUOTE]Some will even initiate it. Getting that Hep B series of vaccines is important for mongers. Yep, there is a risk, but as you say, if you play safe you can minimize it.

I for once follow the struggle some guys inside here meet when dealing with our dear prostitutes. I am aware I don't usualy meet the most hardned women out there ex on occation a Beergarden girl or two (sometimes) , as I put a no to streetwalkers, bargirls, go go girls etc (and yes I know there are some BG, GO GO, MP's wandering into the FL market in the clubs after their shift ends but even so). Mostly I cater to the FL segment visiting BKK nightclubs when we speak about P4P.

As I invest some time pre screening ladies in the clubs and build good chemistry through spendings, drinking and having fun I rarly have problems when the sex part begins. When having a good time and make the girls feel comfortable and even get them a bit tipsy I almost with very rare exceptions get a great experience from them. Some even go the extra mile to try give PSE effort. When they feel comfortable they do rimming (not all ofcourse but the greater part does) , around 80, give or take a few, are up for A+. DFK, DATY and BBBJ I see as a natural thing so I don't give it to much thought realy. But for guys dealing with ST girls I can see the point of getting last customers cum in your mouth as not to tempting.

I think I can count on one hand over the years girls wanting me to rubber up but to unknown girls I allways rubber up when doing A+ and ofcourse Beergarden girls. So as some mongers state the girls getting more and more proffesional and gives out the menu (what they do or not) seems not to effect me so far, thanks god, as I know I would have hated that. Infact my impression is that the nightclub FL market is blooming like never before and a lot of new faces turns up every night (atleast according to management I now know quite well a few places). I am not in town every night so would have hard time view it on my own.

I for once think we see more and more girls wanting to be their own bosses and don't like beeing part of lets say the BF system anymore. Maby they even get themself a dayjob and only hit clubs once or twice a week to have some extra cashflow? If so fine by me.

[QUOTE=goatscrot]Of course I have always been in good shape, clean shaven, well dressed, and don't smoke. Those things make a difference. If you are overweight, are not well groomed, wear cargo shorts, flip-flops, and a Red Bull T-Shirt, you might have a bit harder of a time getting gals to kiss you.[/QUOTE]These things make a difference. Thai girls do not like guys that pong from B. O, or have bad breath. In most cases they do not like the new fashion of Male Models and actors having a carefully maintained 2 to 3 day stubble. Thai girls can have sensitive skin and do not want their face lips and pussy abraided by spikey face stubble, unless its very soft somehow. I have asked them and most much prefer the clean shaven smooth face. A one day growth may be the roughest. Some girls don't want to kiss due to the brissles.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1544437]Never thought I would be into being rimmed, but after having it done a couple of times at Tulip back in the day, I must admit I really want it on the menu. I have found that if you rim the gal, she is likely to get the hint and rim you. You would be surprised at how many gals will.[/QUOTE]I think many of us have an innate fear of anything other their tissue paper getting close to our asshole; however, like you I've discovered rimming feels very good, once you relax and let yourself enjoy it. I particularly enjoy a threesome with one lady rimming me and the other giving me a BJ; or better yet getting rimmed by one lady while I fuck the other lady. :D

[QUOTE=Paul]Regarding bareback, I mentioned in a post some time ago that a while back a fellow on ISG, whom I believe to be Thai, exchanged some PMs with me. He said he was a friend of several MP girls. He claimed bareback is much more common than many guys realize. According to him, virtually all the girls at the more hardcore MPs do bareback on a very regular basis; basically, if the clients insists they oblige. He also said all of them periodically contract STDs; and large numbers of them have hepatitis B, which they are not treating.[/QUOTE]It's the dumb girls that do it regularly. Some are persuaded by doctors to stop doing it. I know a girl who was very beautiful and a hooker for 20 years now, bare backing many Thais and Farangs no doubt. She has Aids now. It's not surprising.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1544439]Some will even initiate it. Getting that Hep B series of vaccines is important for mongers. Yep, there is a risk, but as you say, if you play safe you can minimize it.[/QUOTE]And for those wondering, Hep B vaccination is a series of 3 shots administered over 6 months. Its good for 10 years. When getting the vaccination, check the bottle they are using to ensure is not expired stock.

[QUOTE=Skogis;1544443]As I invest some time pre screening ladies in the clubs and build good chemistry through spendings, drinking and having fun I rarly have problems when the sex part begins. When having a good time and make the girls feel comfortable and even get them a bit tipsy I almost with very rare exceptions get a great experience from them. Some even go the extra mile to try give PSE effort. When they feel comfortable they do rimming (not all ofcourse but the greater part does) , around 80, give or take a few, are up for A+. DFK, DATY and BBBJ I see as a natural thing so I don't give it to much thought realy. But for guys dealing with ST girls I can see the point of getting last customers cum in your mouth as not to tempting.[/QUOTE]The pros seem to have a publicized list of services rendered, with special treats they make available to clients they particularly like.

As for non-pros who are open minded enough to playing the game, my experiences have been like yours. Once they are comfortable with you, they are surprisingly adventurous. As you point out, generally you have to take the lead and use a little finesse.

Young ladies who do not have a lot of experience with anal play don't always realize what you are doing. I've had experiences when I've worked on a young lady's clit with my tongue while I played with the opening of her ass with my fingers and then inserted one finger just before she climaxes. Afterwards the lady would ask what I was doing to her. After explaining what it was, because it caused a more intense orgasm she'd be eager for more. I've also had success introducing ladies who like ass play to the pleasures of getting their ass fucked by entering the lady's pussy while she's in doggy position and working her clit with a vibrator. Then I'd lube her up and introduce increasing numbers of fingers in her ass, slowly, allowing her to get acquainted with the sensation of having her ass stretched. Once she was comfortable with three fingers, I'd tell her I was going to gently put my cock in her ass. The usual response was something like "okay" or "okay but go slow." I'd reassure her I'd be gentle and proceed. If she seemed to be uncomfortable I'd stop and try again next time. Some ladies would make it clear they didn't want me to try again. Some ladies were up for another attempt. These were the ladies who ended up really enjoying it.

The key is getting the lady comfortable with you, proceeding slowly and not pushing the lady too far too fast. Once you establish trust, it may surprise you where she will let you lead them.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1544451]It's the dumb girls that do it regularly.[/QUOTE]This is also what I would think. Seems to me only a very stupid or pathologically reckless girl would regularly do bareback; however, that is not what this fellow claimed. Now what he told me may have been a bunch of bull, but he seemed to know a great deal about the inner workings of an MP, the policies and what was expected of the ladies. Now he was talking about what I think of as the hardcore MPs. Among these he claimed the majority of the ladies regularly do bareback and the establishment makes it clear to the ladies they are to give the customers whatever they want. He said the girls have a very fatalistic attitude about the dangers of what they are doing.

My personal experience is at least a quarter but less than half of the MPs and gogo girls I've fucked over the years would clearly have let me ride them bareback without raising an objection. My point is guys who go bareback may be surprised at how many other are doing the same and the magnitude of the risk they are taking.

I'll repeat myself. Have fun. Play safe.

[QUOTE=FreebieFan;1544454]And for those wondering, Hep B vaccination is a series of 3 shots administered over 6 months. Its good for 10 years. When getting the vaccination, check the bottle they are using to ensure is not expired stock.[/QUOTE]Close, it is three injections but its good for life not 10 years.

[QUOTE=*****man;1544335]Do you guys really want to put your tongue into a mouth that has recently been sucking another guy's penis, not to mention licking his arsehole?[/QUOTE]I would have to agree 100 % with you WH. And TBH I am rarely ever comfortable DATY with the lady of night.

But its different strokes for different folks, as the saying goes.

I agree with Mr Syzygies, girls in CH do go with western guys as they also do with Asian guys. From beginning of December to half January I did barfine some ladies there, like Tang (100) , the bestscoring one in barfines no. 51, Bua (27) and service lady Nan (she leave already) And I must say that only Bua was OK enough for me to repeat. Tang is by far the cutest one on stage and have quite big natural boobs. I think the service provided in bed is in general very low, but I do like the vibe that CH sometimes have. The have a show right now, but that need some time and sure need some danceinstructor. No. 91 and No. 94 are indeed bad girls with dito attitude. Never see them smile anyway.

[QUOTE=Syzygies; 1544239]It's not true that all the girls only want Japanese customers, however there are certainly a percentage of bad girls who are looking for 3k for a quickie.

New girls 2 and 24 are nice girls however one has the face and the other has the ass. Neither have a total package. No. 91 and 94 are examples of bad girls. I did not take them but their bad character is fairly obvious.

I took Mint who changes number often. She is a sweet girl and have repeated. I also took a girl with big tits. She was rather passive but still fuckable. A bit too young most likely.

Crazy House is a good place to ogle and get horny, but I suspect a small percentage of the stunners will actually be good. I can't be sure as did not want to sample a significant number of them.[/QUOTE]

had planned on stopping by addicts mp to see if my poc (provider of choice) was back from her [i]holiday[/i]. but running late, time getting short, so decided to just stop by the bier garten for a drink, leaving addicts for tomorrow.

now i just might have to have that cataract operation, or start wearing my driving glasses all the time, or maybe make a first stop at sol, som's, [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord901][CodeWord901][/url]'s, etc, because now there seems to be 4 or 5 very attractive [i]flames[/i] in there at 4pm. several [i]others[/i], [u]of course[/u], come over to make conversation, check on [i]employment[/i] possibilities, but i'm not interested in [u]them[/u], easy to tell them i'm just there to drink, they'll just lose time.

a couple of hot [i]flames[/i] are over at the [i]pack[/i] table, the table 1/2 way into the place, in line with the entrance, perpendicular to it. always a [i]mixed[/i] group sitting there, but front row goes to the best looking ones, not having to move, being on [i]display[/i] for any punter entering. in dxb, the philipina [i]gazelles[/i] would herd together in the seaview for protection from the jackals. but here, seems more like queen bees, waiting for potential worthy drones to approach, or perhaps spotting a drone worthy enough for royalty to visit.

a couple of others rep001tered in the bar. one older (i say [i]experienced[/i]) one has a very nicely displayed cleavage. she's close enough for her to try and strike up a conversation, but far enough away not all comes across. there's another very attractive one a couple of stools over, but she's occupied (though 10 minutes later, he's left, she's stayed). but by that time, miss c has pointed to the empty stool next to me, and, having gotten a nod, has moved to join me. standard bier garten. i figure i'll have another drink, check the attitude, and if good, get a phone number for another day when i have time.

attitude is very good, hand's on marketing. no rush to get out the door, just some friendly banter, chit-chat. i've just about finished my drink, worth getting the number. then she ups the marketing, asking if i like massage (yea, heard [i]that[/i] before from my previous bg pull, sadly disappointed). but she demonstrates on back, head, shoulders, and she's good. i ask how much time she has, and it's the [i]traditional[/i] "up to you". as i said, she's [i]experienced[/i], as when i ask about the status of penthouse and playboy, she confirms penthouse is gone, but playboy's still there. we can go there if i want, but she prefers the new bg standard, world inn, 1 street over. i have to smile as she is familiar enough with the playboy that she knows it has mirrors "if you want watch me", but she mentions the rooms don't smell the greatest (comes with age and being below ground, 1/2 of which i also qualify for). i mention twice, and she's the one offering bbbj, massage, then fs, 2k. i excuse myself (yes, i can still stand up and walk without embarrassment) , step outside, and make a couple of phone calls to rearrange my schedule. step back inside, verify it's 2 hours (hey, we all get old) , and off we go. optimist that i am, pay for 2 hours, 2 condoms (just in case 1 slips off).

on entering the room, like the other bg pull, tv and a/c go on almost simultaneously, but unlike the other bg pull with mutual shower, seems this one prefers sequential. experienced enough to assuage any security concerns i might have by saying i should take my pants (with wallet) with me. showers finished, she joins me on the bed with some b2b, followed by the promised bbbj. round 1 finished, we clean up, she starting the promised massage. doesn't reach the expertise of dxb's prc experts, but it's damn good, equivalent or better than most full service mp's (hey, massage is not the [u]primary[/u] reason you go there, but have to do something between rounds, hell to get old, and i've already finished today's bkk post). besides the massage, we also have a nice discussion about malaysian airlines, religious fundamentalists, trouble in the south, rice farming, non-payment of rice funds, ... a few times she'll stop as either she or i want to make a point, but for the most part, she continues the massage throughout the discussion. class.

after the massage, bit more talk, then she uses her natural [i]endowments[/i] to make sure i'm fully awake. various positions, and again, while the sound effects are artificial, not over the top. judges give me a 2 on the 1/2 somersault as we switch from cowgirl to missionary; just don't flex that well anymore, but at least i don't get leg cramps. mission accomplished, clean up, and spend a few minutes relaxing in bed.

time to get going, we each have other places to be. as i'm putting on my watch, fmtt. ignored my own advice to book one hour, paying more if required. it's over an hour, but if they round down, it'd be an hour. oh well, i don't care. she was definitely not a clock watcher, and i believe that if i was a bit [i]slower[/i], it would not have been a problem. fun time. i do get her number, and confirm, for future [i]assignations[/i]. slip the money in her purse, along with a good tip. with service like that, an addict's visit will be postponed for a day or two.

bottom line, luck of the draw, but taking some time to judge attitude, there are some gems at the bier garten. might not be the youngest, but, for me. 30ish is just fine.

decided to pay dr bj's a 1st time visit, figuring chances were good it would be ok if annie's aey is involved. they have a nice web site, showing a number of the girls, so before arriving, had several in mind. several come-ons from the girls sitting outside as i approached. walked inside, asked if it was my 1st time (was) , then showed a card with the prices listed (and as seen on the web site). girls joined the lineup; considerable number of choices. picked a well-endowed consultant i remembered from the web site.

up to the room. ok, small cubicle sized room, but nicer than say [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord901][CodeWord901][/url]'s bench with a curtain. dr. bj's claim to fame seems to be their in-room wash facility, a sink with a "package" extension. sounds good, but to really get the full benefit requires you to remove your pants, and thus shoes, rather than just dropping trou as in other places. more for the provider's benefit than the customer's, me thinks. :) i never minded a cool towel wipe myself.

service promised was what was delivered, but the [i]endowments[/i] stayed concealed, which was a bit disappointing. now, i didn't ask, nor did i take a hand dip myself, just leaned back to enjoy. but keeping [i]them[/i] covered cost her a tip, as nothing special delivered. will point out that the sol's sop is for the girl to go topless, without being asked. everything taken care of, returned downstairs to pay the cashier on the way out.

can't really complain, downstairs certainly is bright and clean, and they do have considerable staff. might repeat during rush hour; otherwise, i'll take the bts over to patpong for a visit to sol. much fewer providers, only 1 room, with a couple of stools, or the couches in the main bar, but, for me, the [i]ambiance[/i] and service better.

do wish aey all the luck; she is a class lady, though now no doubt grown up from the "minor" (some thais just don't show their age) with granny glasses that used to be behind the bar at annie's.

Anyone had a two girl BBBJ at any of the grand BJ bars of BKK? Will report back but interested if anyone has a recommendation for the best place to try it.

[QUOTE=Supmam;1545382]Anyone had a two girl BBBJ at any of the grand BJ bars of BKK? Will report back but interested if anyone has a recommendation for the best place to try it.[/QUOTE]About half the ladies at Dr BJ's Salon "work with other ladies". I expect you can get 2-girl BBBJ at all the BJ bars in Bangkok.

11Abravo,

I take the VIP at Dr BJ. It's a very full service indeed in a large room including body slide massage and large bed.

This better room makes it superior to Annie's. There is no bath, but showering with the girl is just as good for me.

[QUOTE=Syzygies; 1545418]11Abravo,

I take the VIP at Dr BJ. It's a very full service indeed in a large room including body slide massage and large bed.

This better room makes it superior to Annie's. There is no bath, but showering with the girl is just as good for me.[/QUOTE]Yep, see my report about P in the VIP room, posted in early January. Frankly, the VIP room at DR BJ's Salon is larger and as nice as many hotel rooms. Also, you can turn off the A / C, turn on a fan and make the room more comfortable. My biggest complaint of Annie's is the rooms are too damn cold!

Has anyone used the Panorama room at Paradise Massage? I was thinking of trying it on my next visit. They offer a two-girl special. Panorama Room and one-girl for 2-hours is 3500; 6000 with two-girls. Obviously they cater primarily to Japanese customers, but I'm interested in giving it a try.

Back to Dr BJ's VIP room, if there is a lady or two there whom you like I recommend taking her (them) up to the VIP room for a romp.

Say this on Stickman recently:

"A handful of readers have asked why I shirk mentioning the Bangkok gogo bar most popular with expats in recent months. It's not Bacarra and nor is it Rainbow 4, still the two busiest chrome pole houses. This particular venue is easily the most popular with expats in the know with all sorts of stuff happening right in the bar. Some say it is the closest to how the bars were in the '90s. I won't mention the name of the venue in this column because of a problem with numbers. I will say no more."

I would love to know which place he's talking about? Any help? I'm from Cambodia but hit Bangkok fairly regularly.

The only go gos with on premises action I know are the strip and some of the small places on Soi Cowboy.

[QUOTE=InnocentDude; 1545592]Hi all,

I'm going to be in Bangkok airport for 5 hrs (transit).

Is there any chance of mongering within the airport?

Also need your advice on spa's available there.

Do they provide HJ?

Can I request them? Etc.

Any advice is highly appreciated.[/QUOTE]Suvarnabhumi Airport is a modern clean high-tech international airport. There may be one or two up-scale massage places there. But if you are staying air-side then I think the chances of getting what you seek are as close to zero as possible. It would be possible to come out of the airport and with some planning find some relief.

[quote=bronzeman; 1545436]say this on stickman recently:

"a handful of readers have asked why i shirk mentioning the bangkok gogo bar most popular with expats in recent months. it's not bacarra and nor is it rainbow 4, still the two busiest chrome pole houses. this particular venue is easily the most popular with expats in the know with all sorts of stuff happening right in the bar. some say it is the closest to how the bars were in the '90s. i won't mention the name of the venue in this column because of a problem with numbers. i will say no more."

i would love to know which place he's talking about? any help? i'm from cambodia but hit bangkok fairly regularly.

the only go gos with on premises action i know are the strip and some of the small places on soi cowboy.[/quote]i think he's talking about crazy house. however be aware of **** girls! see my post #26701 and several posts from others in the last months.

[QUOTE=Mouse1;1545730]Suvarnabhumi Airport is a modern clean high-tech international airport. There may be one or two up-scale massage places there. But if you are staying air-side then I think the chances of getting what you seek are as close to zero as possible. It would be possible to come out of the airport and with some planning find some relief.[/QUOTE]What about Don Muang airport? Will be spending 5 hours there in transit. So too little time for visa and trip to Nana. Any scope there?

[QUOTE=InnocentDude; 1545592]Hi all,

I'm going to be in Bangkok airport for 5 hrs (transit).

Is there any chance of mongering within the airport?

Also need your advice on spa's available there.

Do they provide HJ?

Can I request them? Etc.

Any advice is highly appreciated.[/QUOTE]If you stay on the transit-side, your chances are next to nothing. I have seen a few massage places near some of the gates, but they seemed very "clean" and I'm not sure they even have a "back room" for the more interesting activities.

And you will not have enough time to pass through immigration twice and go to town.

[QUOTE=InnocentDude; 1545592]Hi all,

I'm going to be in Bangkok airport for 5 hrs (transit).

Is there any chance of mongering within the airport?

Also need your advice on spa's available there.

Do they provide HJ?

Can I request them? Etc.

Any advice is highly appreciated.[/QUOTE]Yes, yes and yes. There is string of GOGO bars and BJ places in the transit area. Just like the departure lounge at your home airport. Just make sure you change your money to Baht at the currencey exchange before you go in.

[QUOTE=Duniawala;1545847]Yes, yes and yes. There is string of GOGO bars and BJ places in the transit area. Just like the departure lounge at your home airport. Just make sure you change your money to Baht at the currencey exchange before you go in.[/QUOTE]Of course it was a stupid question not worthy of being dignified with an answer but all you ever do is react to these types of questions.

Have you nothing of your own to report?

[QUOTE=BronzeMan; 1545436]Say this on Stickman recently:

"A handful of readers have asked why I shirk mentioning the Bangkok gogo bar most popular with expats in recent months. It's not Bacarra and nor is it Rainbow 4, still the two busiest chrome pole houses. This particular venue is easily the most popular with expats in the know with all sorts of stuff happening right in the bar. Some say it is the closest to how the bars were in the '90s. I won't mention the name of the venue in this column because of a problem with numbers. I will say no more."

I would love to know which place he's talking about? Any help? I'm from Cambodia but hit Bangkok fairly regularly.

The only go gos with on premises action I know are the strip and some of the small places on Soi Cowboy.[/QUOTE].

Read my report from 2/8/14. This was a CH girl.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1538671]Could be Crazy House. It tends to get very full although they could overflow to upstairs. Suzi Wong also gets very full at times.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Jazzy Daddy; 1546001].

Read my report from 2/8/14. This was a CH girl.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=BronzeMan; 1545436]Say this on Stickman recently:

"A handful of readers have asked why I shirk mentioning the Bangkok gogo bar most popular with expats in recent months. It's not Bacarra and nor is it Rainbow 4, still the two busiest chrome pole houses. This particular venue is easily the most popular with expats in the know with all sorts of stuff happening right in the bar. Some say it is the closest to how the bars were in the '90s. I won't mention the name of the venue in this column because of a problem with numbers. I will say no more."

I would love to know which place he's talking about? Any help? I'm from Cambodia but hit Bangkok fairly regularly.

The only go gos with on premises action I know are the strip and some of the small places on Soi Cowboy.[/QUOTE]About three weeks ago in this thread I asked the same question. See Syzygies' answer above.

[QUOTE=InnocentDude; 1545592]Hi all,

I'm going to be in Bangkok airport for 5 hrs (transit).

Is there any chance of mongering within the airport?

Also need your advice on spa's available there.

Do they provide HJ?

Can I request them? Etc.

Any advice is highly appreciated.[/QUOTE]Years ago you could get what you seek in the old airport. Unfortunately, that service died with the opening of the new airport. Even back then it was nothing really special. Older ladies, and limited extras. It kind of reminded me of the slot machines at the airport in Las Vegas. Nobody ever hits the jackpot there, but it's good for getting your handle pulled one last time before heading home.

[QUOTE=Aqua64; 1544212]Hi folks,

I will be at Krungsri River Hotel in Ayuttahaya for few days before I go to BKK. Is there any action there?

Can you recommend any place or escort for the hotel?

Thanks for the help.[/QUOTE]Aqua64,

3 posts. 3 questions. When will you return something to the forum?

Ayutthaya:

Look for Grand Street in the new city (not the island, not Soi Farang) , off Rojana Road (Krungsri river hotel is located at this road, too). It's where the Grand Hotel is located, and the Ayutthaya Night Plaza. Start with Cowboy Bar, life music, drinks (food not so convincing) , and then walk into the small side roads there. You will find lots of KTV's, Japanese Karaokes, bars, massage places etc. etc. .

Giotto

Late night agogo happenings. 11; 45 pm at a pop. Agogo. After the first wave of barfines get going there is a group of girls who just can't attract paying customers left on stage. As the first wave of popular cum buckets back they are then chosen for the 2nd round. Leaving the same goobers on stage-what I presume is till closing.

[QUOTE=Duniawala;1545847]Yes, yes and yes. There is string of GOGO bars and BJ places in the transit area. Just like the departure lounge at your home airport. Just make sure you change your money to Baht at the currencey exchange before you go in.[/QUOTE]The best option is when one flies business or first class with Thai airways, as he can access the TG Spa, nearby some of the TG lounges. First class passengers, need to show the boarding card and. No need of baht as a minimum relief can be included, by just demanding it at reception.

[QUOTE=Wolvenvacht; 1545803]If you stay on the transit-side, your chances are next to nothing. I have seen a few massage places near some of the gates, but they seemed very "clean" and I'm not sure they even have a "back room" for the more interesting activities.

And you will not have enough time to pass through immigration twice and go to town.[/QUOTE]The in-airport spas are very clean. Nice for killing time before a flight though.

Five hours should actually be sufficient time to go to Sukhumvit. I have done this myself, arriving BKK on a domestic flight and connecting to an international flight about 5 hours later. Upon arrival, you can store your carry-on luggage in the airport, catch a cab to go to an oily, soapy or whatever you like, and you could be in action about one hour after touching down. 90 minutes later, drained and clean, catch a taxi back to the airport, and you should be in security about 2 hours before your onward flight. Plenty of time. Especially if you fly business and have access to fast track.

Report on Baccarra. Highly un inspiring. Even got some girls I would say are downright ugly.

Dollhouse report. Number 7 has quite a good face and really nice breasts. Unfortunately Buddha was not kind to her during childbirth. Very noticeable stretch marks!

[QUOTE=CheeChee889; 1546222]Report on Baccarra. Highly un inspiring. Even got some girls I would say are downright ugly.

Dollhouse report. Number 7 has quite a good face and really nice breasts. Unfortunately Buddha was not kind to her during childbirth. Very noticeable stretch marks![/QUOTE]The real question is. Is this the macro (multi year) trend at work? Or is this a near term issue? Or perhaps a bit of both?
Baccarra has gone downhill, that is true, and it became more noticeable after Jan 12th when the protests expanded into the 24/7 encampments and disrupting among other places the entire Soi 21 intersection. Now in regard to the macro issue, Stickman back in 2012 laid out the issue aboout as good as I've seen it with his Auckland analogy. He may overstate it a bit in regard to the particulars (comparative "western" prices, the multi day issue and so forth) but the overall macro trend seems to be described pretty well. Note that neither Baccarra or Rainbow 4 (or the other Rainbows to a large degree) have the Coyote default option, since they are explicitly presented as "all dancers barfine" type shops. So they really have no fallback position should they be unable to get sufficient numbers of hot dancers. I believe I did perhaps notice a few Coyotes in Rainbow 3 one night but its still seems rare at this point.



From Stickmans column June 17, 2012.

"K' Road is where Auckland's red light district used to be. An old mate, Nick, was a bit of a pervert who always had sex on his mind and couldn't stay focused on or talk about much else. He was a year or so older than me and had a driver's licence and a car before me. In our teens we would go cruising around K' Road late at night for a look and a laugh. I remember big, hard-looking, ugly women standing on street corners, older women, women who appeared drunk or on drugs, and transvestites. It wasn't pretty and was nothing like Bangkok's naughty nightlife areas. Or was it?

Thailand's naughty nightlife industry was never part of the country's draw when I first visited, but when a mate and I stuck our heads in Phuket's Rock Hard A Gogo in the late '90s. One of the best bars at the time. We were amazed. There were so many slim, pretty, friendly and amazingly, incredibly polite women. This was nothing like the odd strip bar we had been in back home. Not only were the girls all slim and friendly, we were told they would stay with a customer all night long and the cost was negligible. It was easy to see attraction.

The thing is, that was 15 odd years ago and things change.

The same friend I first visited Phuket with in the '90s was in Bangkok recently and escaped the clutches of his wife for a boys' night out. In the bars, he couldn't believe how things had changed. The women were big. Many were rude. Prices were high and that tenderness that Thai women are known for was gone. The women for the most part were hard. He used to see the attraction. But not now.

I don't know what all of the fuss is about with Bangkok's naughty nightlife these days. The industry has changed markedly and it seems to me that the main attraction no longer exists.

I have said for a while that the girls in the bars are much less attractive today and browsing photos I took 10+ years ago, and perusing snaps posted online from naughty boys taken 20+ years ago, one thing's clear. The women working in the bars used to be slim. Many in the bars today are overweight, even the gogo bars which seldom had fatties on stage.

Western men in Bangkok bars are bidding against each other, pushing up prices to silly levels that may exceed what you'd pay in the West. Long-time often becomes short-time and short-time seldom lasts more than 30 minutes. Amazingly a quick bonk in Bangkok can cost well in excess of $100 today, maybe as much as $150 if you include the cost of a few drinks, the barfine, a room, the girl's fee, to say nothing of amortizing the cost of air travel. Where in the Western world can you not find a quick naughty with a reasonably attractive lady for $100? Even in ultra-expensive Hong Kong you can find a stunningly attractive lady on ******, the likes of which you simply cannot find in the farang nightlife districts of Bangkok, and spend an hour. A full hour. With her for less than $75 all up.

The industry is growing, but perhaps not for the better. The major growth area in Bangkok's foreigner centric naughty nightlife has been street bars which first appeared in the Nana area a few years back. Opening late, they're all over the busy part of Sukhumvit, from the Nana intersection where they are most concentrated, down to and across the Asoke intersection, all the way to soi 22. Drinks prices on the street are much the same as in bars in the popular bar areas. You get a dirty plastic seat and scary women to keep you company. And there are barfines just the same.

What set whoring in South-East Asia apart was not so much the looks of the girls, or the cost, but the service. Specifically it was the girlfriend experience. Where the girl would stay with the customer not just for the night, but for the duration of his holiday, treating him as a real girlfriend would, perhaps even better. The girlfriend experience is all but over in Bangkok, is on the way out in Phuket and even in Pattaya, it's not that easy to find, at least not in the better bars with the pretty girls.

With higher prices for average looking women and no girlfriend experience, what's the point? Without the girlfriend experience there's a real argument that you might be better off in the West!

In the West the price includes the room and there is no barfine nonsense. There shouldn't be any communication issues. And your mattress actress won't be called in the middle of the act by some lovelorn sap half a world away crying on the phone and interrupting your session.

Earlier this week I was sitting outside a bar in Soi Cowboy, watching the world go by, taking a few snaps, just chilling. Sat nearby was an early 30s, good-looking Aussie. Judging from his accent. Who I'm sure would have no problem getting a nice girlfriend back home. He was sitting with a bird he'd just barfined from another bar. She was fat and ugly. Which I'm convinced would be an accurate description in most people's eyes. She was openly making fun of him. She asked where they would be going next, intimating that he should take her for dinner while reminding him that she had to leave him by midnight. And this was a hooker he was paying!

What I see in many Bangkok bars these days resembles what I saw on Auckland's K' Road with my old mate, Nick. Yes, you can find slim, attractive girls in the likes of Las Vegas, Billboard and Bacarra. Yes, you should be able to find a girl who is polite and sweet if you come across one fresh from the countryside who has yet to be marred by the industry and poisoned by other girls. You might be able to meet a lady to go to your room for less than it would cost in the West, if you shop around, or you wait until the end of the night. You might even be able to get a lady to spend a few days with you if you really hunt around. But getting all of these? Good luck!

Bangkok's foreigner centric bars have been turned on their head and the state of things has become the elephant in the room. Many women are seriously overweight and many are, let's be honest here, just plain ugly. The prices guys are paying in many cases are higher than what they would pay back home when you consider that they're often getting just half an hour. Many girls are hard, rude, manipulative and just plain insulting. The girlfriend experience will soon be just like Clinton Plaza and Bernard Trink, consigned to bar history. And you know things have really gone awry when there's an argument for the prettiest girls in Soi Cowboy to be found in Cockatoo. A lot of what goes on in Bangkok's foreign bar areas today is just as I remember K' Road. Farangland has been replicated in Bangkok!


[url]http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/StickmanWeeklyColumn2012/Thailand-Declining-Nightlife.htm[/url]

[QUOTE=Western787; 1546288]The real question is. Is this the macro (multi year) trend at work? Or is this a near term issue? Or perhaps a bit of both?

Baccarra has gone downhill, that is true, and it became more noticeable after Jan 12th when the protests expanded into the 24/7 encampments and disrupting among other places the entire Soi 21 intersection. Now in regard to the macro issue, Stickman back in 2012 laid out the issue aboout as good as I've seen it with his Auckland analogy. He may overstate it a bit in regard to the particulars (comparative "western" prices, the multi day issue and so forth) but the overall macro trend seems to be described pretty well. Note that neither Baccarra or Rainbow 4 (or the other Rainbows to a large degree) have the Coyote default option, since they are explicitly presented as "all dancers barfine" type shops. So they really have no fallback position should they be unable to get sufficient numbers of hot dancers. I believe I did perhaps notice a few Coyotes in Rainbow 3 one night but its still seems rare at this point.

From Stickmans column June 17, 2012.

"K' Road is where Auckland's red light district used to be. An old mate, Nick, was a bit of a pervert who always had sex on his mind and couldn't stay focused on or talk about much else. He was a year or so older than me and had a driver's licence and a car before me. In our teens we would go cruising around K' Road late at night for a look and a laugh. I remember big, hard-looking, ugly women standing on street corners, older women, women who appeared drunk or on drugs, and transvestites. It wasn't pretty and was nothing like Bangkok's naughty nightlife areas. Or was it?

Thailand's naughty nightlife industry was never part of the country's draw when I first visited, but when a mate and I stuck our heads in Phuket's Rock Hard A Gogo in the late '90s. One of the best bars at the time. We were amazed. There were so many slim, pretty, friendly and amazingly, incredibly polite women. This was nothing like the odd strip bar we had been in back home. Not only were the girls all slim and friendly, we were told they would stay with a customer all night long and the cost was negligible. It was easy to see attraction.

The thing is, that was 15 odd years ago and things change.

The same friend I first visited Phuket with in the '90s was in Bangkok recently and escaped the clutches of his wife for a boys' night out. In the bars, he couldn't believe how things had changed. The women were big. Many were rude. Prices were high and that tenderness that Thai women are known for was gone. The women for the most part were hard. He used to see the attraction. But not now.

I don't know what all of the fuss is about with Bangkok's naughty nightlife these days. The industry has changed markedly and it seems to me that the main attraction no longer exists.

I have said for a while that the girls in the bars are much less attractive today and browsing photos I took 10+ years ago, and perusing snaps posted online from naughty boys taken 20+ years ago, one thing's clear. The women working in the bars used to be slim. Many in the bars today are overweight, even the gogo bars which seldom had fatties on stage.

Western men in Bangkok bars are bidding against each other, pushing up prices to silly levels that may exceed what you'd pay in the West. Long-time often becomes short-time and short-time seldom lasts more than 30 minutes. Amazingly a quick bonk in Bangkok can cost well in excess of $100 today, maybe as much as $150 if you include the cost of a few drinks, the barfine, a room, the girl's fee, to say nothing of amortizing the cost of air travel. Where in the Western world can you not find a quick naughty with a reasonably attractive lady for $100? Even in ultra-expensive Hong Kong you can find a stunningly attractive lady on, the likes of which you simply cannot find in the farang nightlife districts of Bangkok, and spend an hour. A full hour. With her for less than $75 all up.

The industry is growing, but perhaps not for the better. The major growth area in Bangkok's foreigner centric naughty nightlife has been street bars which first appeared in the Nana area a few years back. Opening late, they're all over the busy part of Sukhumvit, from the Nana intersection where they are most concentrated, down to and across the Asoke intersection, all the way to soi 22. Drinks prices on the street are much the same as in bars in the popular bar areas. You get a dirty plastic seat and scary women to keep you company. And there are barfines just the same.

What set whoring in South-East Asia apart was not so much the looks of the girls, or the cost, but the service. Specifically it was the girlfriend experience. Where the girl would stay with the customer not just for the night, but for the duration of his holiday, treating him as a real girlfriend would, perhaps even better. The girlfriend experience is all but over in Bangkok, is on the way out in Phuket and even in Pattaya, it's not that easy to find, at least not in the better bars with the pretty girls.

With higher prices for average looking women and no girlfriend experience, what's the point? Without the girlfriend experience there's a real argument that you might be better off in the West!

In the West the price includes the room and there is no barfine nonsense. There shouldn't be any communication issues. And your mattress actress won't be called in the middle of the act by some lovelorn sap half a world away crying on the phone and interrupting your session.

Earlier this week I was sitting outside a bar in Soi Cowboy, watching the world go by, taking a few snaps, just chilling. Sat nearby was an early 30s, good-looking Aussie. Judging from his accent. Who I'm sure would have no problem getting a nice girlfriend back home. He was sitting with a bird he'd just barfined from another bar. She was fat and ugly. Which I'm convinced would be an accurate description in most people's eyes. She was openly making fun of him. She asked where they would be going next, intimating that he should take her for dinner while reminding him that she had to leave him by midnight. And this was a hooker he was paying!

What I see in many Bangkok bars these days resembles what I saw on Auckland's K' Road with my old mate, Nick. Yes, you can find slim, attractive girls in the likes of Las Vegas, Billboard and Bacarra. Yes, you should be able to find a girl who is polite and sweet if you come across one fresh from the countryside who has yet to be marred by the industry and poisoned by other girls. You might be able to meet a lady to go to your room for less than it would cost in the West, if you shop around, or you wait until the end of the night. You might even be able to get a lady to spend a few days with you if you really hunt around. But getting all of these? Good luck!

Bangkok's foreigner centric bars have been turned on their head and the state of things has become the elephant in the room. Many women are seriously overweight and many are, let's be honest here, just plain ugly. The prices guys are paying in many cases are higher than what they would pay back home when you consider that they're often getting just half an hour. Many girls are hard, rude, manipulative and just plain insulting. The girlfriend experience will soon be just like Clinton Plaza and Bernard Trink, consigned to bar history. And you know things have really gone awry when there's an argument for the prettiest girls in Soi Cowboy to be found in Cockatoo. A lot of what goes on in Bangkok's foreign bar areas today is just as I remember K' Road. Farangland has been replicated in Bangkok!

[url]http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/StickmanWeeklyColumn2012/Thailand-Declining-Nightlife.htm[/url][/QUOTE]Stick's report is spot on. The Coyote idiocy certainly adds to the woes. Why should a girl service dudes when she can make 35k a month or more just dancing? That is a very decent salary for Thailand considering median income is about 13k per month. Contrast that with gogo salaries of just 10 years ago. 6,7, and 8k for bikini, topless, and fully nude dancers.

It just gets worse and worse. Women who would have struggled to get 500 baht 10 years ago are asking and in many cases getting 2k ST. Amazing what guys will pay for an old, baby scarred woman with a bad attitude, and as Stick pointed out, some of these are younger guys. Hell, when I moved here even the 60 plus men all had pretty hot young gals. That was the reason for coming here. We have no one to blame but the punters. I find it interesting that over the last few months that the tone of this forum has swung heavily towards, "turn out the lights, the party's over."

For me as for Stick, the naughty nightlife is no longer a real attraction and certainly not the reason I live here. Love to get an oily a few times a month, but gogos, meh. Just really glad I was here for the end of the golden age of wh*ring in Thailand.

Went to Nana Entertainment Plaza around 11pm. Tried Rainbow 4 but it felt too much like a factory, beautiful girls for sure but not much flirting or eye contact. Or maybe I just needed a bit of time to loosen up and get in the vibe.

So I walked around and ended up at Rainbow 2. It is slightly more intimate. I noticed a very thin girl dancing who looked pretty, number 16. Not often you see a quartic power! After a while I got her to sit next to me and offered her a lady drink. Her English was poor but enough to communicate the basics. She sidled up to me, carressed my thigh, giggled, and I was sold. We negotiated the details for short time and, just after I'd paid the bar fine, I saw a girl exactly my type, #101, go up the stage and start dancing. Darn, it's always like that! Or is it "the grass is greener" automatic regret?

Anyway, I left with #16, we went to the short-time hotel, I bought a condom, and we got into the room. She was pretty amateurish, I would say. Not the kind of professional service I normally get in massage parlors. She looked basically like a young chick who goes to the go-go bar on weekend nights to make a bit of cash. Doesn't bother me, I like a bit of freshness every once in a while. Anyway, after fucking in a few different positions, it quickly became apparent that her favorite was missionary. This is unusual for hookers as they generally prefer less intimate positions where they don't have to look at your face and smell your perfume. But that suited me fine.

It also became apparent that my drunkenness level was too low to kill my hard-on but too high to allow me to come from intercourse. It was the Goldilocks amount of alcohol for a prolonged fucking session. After a while she took off the condom and gave me a surprisingly skillfull hand job, both delicate and very fast. This achieved the desired result, and concluded the night's adventure.

All in all, I think I still prefer massage parlors, but there's something about the atmosphere of go-go bars at night where anything can happen, and usually does, which is very nice for a change. The girls was young, cute, thin and fresh, which compensated for her lack of professionalism. Rainbow 2 holds its own a more intimate alternative to Rainbow 4.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot; 1546349]Stick's report is spot on. The Coyote idiocy certainly adds to the woes. Why should a girl service dudes when she can make 35k a month or more just dancing? That is a very decent salary for Thailand considering median income is about 13k per month. Contrast that with gogo salaries of just 10 years ago. 6,7, and 8k for bikini, topless, and fully nude dancers.

It just gets worse and worse. Women who would have struggled to get 500 baht 10 years ago are asking and in many cases getting 2k ST. Amazing what guys will pay for an old, baby scarred woman with a bad attitude, and as Stick pointed out, some of these are younger guys. Hell, when I moved here even the 60 plus men all had pretty hot young gals. That was the reason for coming here. We have no one to blame but the punters. I find it interesting that over the last few months that the tone of this forum has swung heavily towards,"turn out the lights, the party's over."

For me as for Stick, the naughty nightlife is no longer a real attraction and certainly not the reason I live here. Love to get an oily a few times a month, but gogos, meh. Just really glad I was here for the end of the golden age of wh*ring in Thailand.[/QUOTE]Maybe you can get a T shirt saying: "I survived Bangkok's Golden Age of Wh*ring."

Of course it won't be completely over until the ballbusters officially turn Nana Plaza into a torture chamber and reeducation camp for mongers. To avoid the unpleasant details, ex KGB-type Russians will likely then be delegated the task of actually running the Gulag and administering daily punishment: http://blog.uvm.edu/mziegle1/files/2013/04/lisiewicz.jpg

No worries mate, because that's at least 2 to 3 years away, giving mongers plenty of time to escape the city with their balls intact.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1546373]Maybe you can get a T shirt saying: "I survived Bangkok's Golden Age of Wh*ring."

Of course it won't be completely over until the ballbusters officially turn Nana Plaza into a torture chamber and reeducation camp for mongers. To avoid the unpleasant details, ex KGB-type Russians will likely then be delegated the task of actually running the Gulag and administering daily punishment: [url]http://blog.uvm.edu/mziegle1/files/2013/04/lisiewicz.jpg[/url]

No worries mate, because that's at least 2 to 3 years away, giving mongers plenty of time to escape the city with their balls intact.[/QUOTE]Considering the new feminist slant in Thai Unis (women outnumber men in Unis by quite a bit and Thailand has more women CEOs than any other nation) , I think things will continue to change far quicker than most of us would like.

Another change, most of the younger foreigners I know are just not down with mongering. I know plenty of young dudes through the music scene, foodie scene, and work who have grown up with the Western Feminist model when it comes to mongering. It is deeply engrained in their heads.

Contrast the scene now with what is was just 5 short years ago. A mere shadow in every way, shape, and form.

I would be very surprised if within a decade things have not been cleaned up considerably, at least in BKK. Pattaya may be another matter, but with the awful demographics haunting the place nowadays, who wants to go there anyway?

Please suggest best place to visit in Bangkok, I don't mind spending but want good quality local girls. Please advise best fish bowl, how about nana center, have heard a lot about these 2 places.

Also, tell which places to avoid. Would like to visit the place around 2-5 pm.

Thanks a lot for your help.

Cheers

[QUOTE=Western787;1546373]Of course it won't be completely over until the ballbusters officially turn Nana Plaza into a torture chamber and reeducation camp for mongers. To avoid the unpleasant details, ex KGB-type Russians will likely then be delegated the task of actually running the Gulag and administering daily punishment: http://blog.uvm.edu/mziegle1/files/2013/04/lisiewicz.jpg[/QUOTE]Aaaargh! Are these Russian Coyote dancers?

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1546386]Another change, most of the younger foreigners I know are just not down with mongering. I know plenty of young dudes through the music scene, foodie scene, and work who have grown up with the Western Feminist model when it comes to mongering. It is deeply engrained in their heads.[/QUOTE]This is so true. Having just left Singapore after 4 years and working for a multi-national engineering firm, I found that the older guys, I. E. Me and my 35+ whyear old mates, would go out drinking and mongering on a regular basis but try to get the young guys out, no way. They would barely come out for a drink and if we then suggested OT, they weren't interested. Pretty much the same with our Thai office. We'd explain to some of the newer, younger expats that they should socialize with others in our field to understand the market, which they understood, but when they were told most guys in our field drank at Soi Cowboy they just said no. They are just not into visiting these places for a drink, let alone mongering.

I work in engineering which is one of the last of the male dominated industries around, but some of my colleagues are more girly than the ladyboys in Cockatoo!

[QUOTE=Western787; 1546288]Thailand's naughty nightlife industry was never part of the country's draw when I first visited, but when a mate and I stuck our heads in Phuket's Rock Hard A Gogo in the late '90s. One of the best bars at the time. We were amazed. There were so many slim, pretty, friendly and amazingly, incredibly polite women. This was nothing like the odd strip bar we had been in back home. Not only were the girls all slim and friendly, we were told they would stay with a customer all night long and the cost was negligible. It was easy to see attraction.

The thing is, that was 15 odd years ago and things change.

[url]http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/StickmanWeeklyColumn2012/Thailand-Declining-Nightlife.htm[/url][/QUOTE]To quote from the Matrix trilogy,"There are some things in this world, captain Niobe, that will never change."

Or as it concerns Thailand's mongering scene: "Same same but different".

Siam's golden age is now being replicated elsewhere on the globe in Asia. Those who do their homework in researching ISG may have the insight to discover it.

Moreover there are still guys in the Kingdom like old retired poster Daddy getting SWT for free.

Furthermore compared to what is available to them in the West, Thaksinland is still to over 90 percent of hobbyists who visit the country a diamond mine. You know, the ones that have not become battle hardened, bored, too picky, done it all already or lost their mojo.

PS for Opebo. Fashion TV also has tons of slim & anorexic girls.

[blue][Deleted by Admin][/blue]

[u][b]EDITOR's NOTE[/b][/u]: [blue]This report was edited or deleted because the writing was so bad that the report was nearly [u]impossible to comprehend[/u].[/blue]

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1546442]Siam's golden age is now being replicated elsewhere on the globe in Asia. Those who do their homework in researching ISG may have the insight to discover it.[/QUOTE]Where, in your opinion?

I read the forums regularly (and travel often sticking my nose into odd places) , and do not have said insight. Not Cambodia, it's in decline. Not the Philippines, in serious decline, with AC being a holdout. Not Laos, oh no, girlies are still quite underground. Not China or Vietnam for sure. Plenty of prostitutes, but quite mercenary, no trace of relaxed Thai GFE attitudes of the 1990s and early 2000s. Where! Burma? Indonesia? Saudi Arabia?

Sure, a fair number of prostitutes can be found in almost any country (with the exception of Saudi or USA) , but I haven't traveled anywhere that approaches Thailand's golden age (say, Pattaya in early 2000s) by a mile.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;1546541]Thailand's golden age (say, Pattaya in early 2000s) by a mile.[/QUOTE]Everyone's 'Golden Age' is different. Your golden Age is when you first went to a place, saw the scene discovered girls willing to have sex with you, then the novelty wears off, you see anyone with some hard currency in his pocket can do the same thing, then you come hear start saying the golden age is over. Well, it is: For You.

By reading the latest post I guess newbee mongers would be scared away as some posters as usual from time to time hit the "everything was so much better in the good old days" button. Their negativity revolwes around its own momentum and other posters get the taste for it as well so the situation for outsiders would look like crap. It is not.

Relax folks, BKK is still one of the worlds greatest goldminds when it comes to ladies who will contribute their pussies into our great hobby against some smallish compensation. BKK is still freakin cheap and paying mostly 3k for a GFE / PSE looker girl in LT mode (10 to 20 hours, hard to say realy but mostly to long, hehe) with multiple pops and access to most things in the sex dictonary, that is not expensive. If you think so you maby consider staying home or move. Maby you could get this for a bowl of salad in the old days but thanks God people are not so poor these days as they directly have to fuck to eat.

That beeing said this report is mostly made for people like me not want to have anything to do with the girlie bars, Nana or Cowboy (maby that is shitty these days). I realy don't pay so much attention to that as it affect my mongering style to a minimum. I am happy to say my latest observations from the BKK scene (based lets say from 100+ trips, over soon 8 years) are that the FL nightclub market is blooming. I know some people will object to that but this is my observation anyway. I have 2 major clubs where I know the managment quite well (after beeing a frequent visitor and spender) and their staff knows the girls and they say the same thing as in more new girls show up these days. I know ofcourse nightclubstaffs will hardly ever talk their business down but it is correct with my observations (and I am just a coming in every now and then guy). I think more and more girls working the barscene now have moved over to the FL scene where they can be more in charge of their own time and do more like they want. I am not talking streetwalkers as they are also without interest to me. But ofcourse I write through a positive. 41 year old caucasian guys eyes. It is very easy to pick up regulars in BKK as well but ofcourse you need a minimum of game as in the rest of the world.

So cheer up guys still great time to be had. The only big and better candystore I know of, operating like I do, is Manila. Over in Phils it is crazy, a good way crazy.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl; 1546442]To quote from the Matrix trilogy,"There are some things in this world, captain Niobe, that will never change."

Or as it concerns Thailand's mongering scene: "Same same but different".

Siam's golden age is now being replicated elsewhere on the globe in Asia. Those who do their homework in researching ISG may have the insight to discover it.

Moreover there are still guys in the Kingdom like old retired poster Daddy getting SWT for free.

Furthermore compared to what is available to them in the West, Thaksinland is still to over 90 percent of hobbyists who visit the country a diamond mine. You know, the ones that have not become battle hardened, bored, too picky, done it all already or lost their mojo.

PS for Opebo. Fashion TV also has tons of slim & anorexic girls.[/QUOTE]In relative terms to the West at least to the average casual sex tourist and / or "monger", yes its probably a diamond mine for most. That is true.

However, there is no "golden age" going on elsewhere per se as far I've heard of. In fact in Sosua (Dominican Republic) there are big problems related to the cruise ship industry intending to covert the area, and in southern China, (Dongguan) a sustained multi month crackdown is underway. Burma where one would expect a golden age to begin, seems to be a disaster, with the building boom pricing everything through the roof yet with a 3rd or 4th world infrastructure still in place, and Chinese and Japanese investors overtaking the area. Cambodia is getting pricey and the NGO's have created all sort of problems there also. Nor do I believe AC another 3rd world hellhole (and not exactly improving) would be deemed to have a similar "golden age" comparable to Thailand 10 to 20 years back as many persons have described it. Although mongers living in the Phils seem to like it well enough

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;1546541]Sure, a fair number of prostitutes can be found in almost any country (with the exception of Saudi or USA) , but I haven't traveled anywhere that approaches Thailand's golden age (say, Pattaya in early 2000s) by a mile.[/QUOTE]Salt Lake City may not be swarming with sex workers, but they are plentiful in every major USA city I've visited or lived in. I'm in South Florida now and they are very plentiful here, though mercenary attitudes are common and 90 minutes will cost the equivalent of THB9000 and up.

[QUOTE=Skogis; 1546569]By reading the latest post I guess newbee mongers would be scared away as some posters as usual from time to time hit the "everything was so much better in the good old days" button. Their negativity revolwes around its own momentum and other posters get the taste for it as well so the situation for outsiders would look like crap. It is not.

So cheer up guys still great time to be had. The only big and better candystore I know of, operating like I do, is Manila. Over in Phils it is crazy, a good way crazy.[/QUOTE]Can't speak for Manila, though I've heard plenty of good things about it, but as for BKK, I heartily agree. I have no problem finding ladies with good to great attitudes. Every lady I was with in December was fun to be with, and the sex ranged from pretty good to fantastic. Perhaps there are fewer desirable ladies in the gogos, but I've stopped looking for ladies there. I was in Climax with Bo and Cheer from Bamboo one Sunday night and the venue was filled with ladies in the 6 to 8 range. They outnumbered the guys 5 to 1. Of course everything is more expensive than it was 10 years ago. Where isn't it? But I just booked a room in the Sofitel, a newer 5-star hotel right on lower Sukhumvit. I'm paying only US$111++ per night! And I'm confident I'll get a free upgrade when I check in. Not many major cities on this planet where you can get a room in a 5-star hotel in a prime location at that price. I'm looking forward to eating great food from the sidewalk stalls, and paying far less than I would for a lousy hamburger in a fast food joint in the USA. Two hours with a honey from an MP will cost one-third (or less) than 90 minutes with a hooker in South Florida, and I know the Bangkok babe will have a better attitude. Hell, for not much more than the 90 minutes with the Florida hooker costs I can book a great escort in Bangkok for overnight.

Relatively speaking Bangkok is a low cost travel destination with a great sex scene. As for the attitudes of the ladies, what goes around comes around. If you have a good attitude you're more likely to be pleased with the lady's attitude. But don't be foolish and think one can have the same experience on the same budget as 5 or 10 years ago.

Thailand is developing. There are plenty of employment options. For decades now women in Issan have been having smaller and smaller families. Bangkok is still a great destination; I expect it still will be in 5 years; and I expect in 5 years guys will be complaining that it is not as good as it was 5 years ago.

When I was a kid my father used to feed me this crap about it was better when he was growing up. He was growing up in the fucking 1930s during the USA depression! He also told me sometimes he'd eat green beans three meals a day five days a week and feel fortunate his family had a garden so they had food to eat. Right, it sure sounds like it was better when he was growing up. Ah for the good old days.

Hi everyone,

This is my first post and I wanted to start by thanking all of your for the great information I have enjoyed! I am preparing to make Bangkok my home and although it is a dream come true, it also means that I will never again be able to enjoy all that the city has to offer with anonymity. I will have to be very careful regarding where I am seen due to my employment and exposure. I have begun to think critically about how to continue the hobby with as little risk as possible. Cowboy, known oilies and the like are unfortunately out. I have found some fun FS times on my travels with the regular massage shops but of course that is hit and miss and it kind of zaps the fun when you must be quiet on a small mat. Is there a scene that fits the bill where one can go during the day (nights are out too unfortunately) with very little risk of being seen. A more local area would very much fit the bill. I must watch out for Farang eyes who might know who I am.

Thanks in advance, and I look forward to becoming a contributor!

Shaz

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch; 1546590]Of course everything is more expensive than it was 10 years ago. Where isn't it? But I just booked a room in the Sofitel, a newer 5-star hotel right on lower Sukhumvit. I'm paying only US$111++ per night! And I'm confident I'll get a free upgrade when I check in. Not many major cities on this planet where you can get a room in a 5-star hotel in a prime location at that price. I'm looking forward to eating great food from the sidewalk stalls, and paying far less than I would for a lousy hamburger in fast food joint in the USA. Two hours with a honey from an MP will cost one-third (or less) than 90 minutes with a hooker in South Florida, and I know the Bangkok babe will have a better attitude. Hell, for not much more than the 90 minutes with the Florida hooker costs I can book a great escort in Bangkok for overnight.

Relatively speaking Bangkok is a low cost travel destination with a great sex scene. As for the attitudes of the ladies, what goes around comes around. If you have a good attitude you're more likely to be pleased with the lady's attitude. But don't be foolish and think one can have the same experience on the same budget as 5 or 10 years ago.

Thailand is developing. There are plenty of employment options. For decades now women in Issan have been having smaller and smaller families. Bangkok is still a great destination; I expect it still will be in 5 years; and I expect in 5 years guys will be complaining that it is not as good as it was 5 years ago.

When I was a kid my father used to feed me this crap about it was better when he was growing up. He was growing up in the fucking 1930s during the USA depression! He also told me sometimes he'd eat green beans three meals a day five days a week and feel fortunate his family had a garden so they had food to eat. Right, it sure sounds like it was better when he was growing up. Ah for the good old days.[/QUOTE]My observations reaches 8 years back when I first started to hit BKK and for the pricing of top ends hotel I think it was relatively more expensive 8 years back then it is today (due to stronger competition today. Demos, floods and in general an unruly gvm ofcourse have brought visitors down atleast into BKK itself). The prices in BHT have been almost the same. For my earlier monger hotel Grand President a deluxe suite costed 2200 incl taxes and still do today (is it more expensive or cheaper today relatively speaking?). For the girls I started with picking a FL girl from Thermae if I remember correctly and I gave her 3K back then and I still do pay the girls 3k in general for real LT play. I pick from every known FL nightclub there is but ofcourse staying many times over the years in Grand President most of my picks have come from Climax. Still 3k compensation. I NEVER discuss price upfront just a hand out when they leave and I have yet, as far as I remember, to see a girl have been unhappy.

Earlier years Spasso in Hyatt Erewan was a typical 5K LT pickup place. Girls pimping themself more up in coctail dresses. The latest years easy to have girls here for 3 to 4K? Have it become cheaper or more expensive? The number and quality of girls same same from my observation. Even had 2 FL`s from spasso for 6K (gave them 3 each).

Once again maby the girls under the barfinesystem one way or another have become more expensive, well it does no affect me as if I meet girls operating in this scene I meet them when they change into the FL scene. Even btls of vodka I think run in the same pricerange than I first started to come here (in the clubs that is).

I am not arguing that in general BKK have become more expensive (I would not have a clue regarding lets say typical living expenses as that does not realy affect me either since I am so lucky I can come and go as I like). What is important to me when in BKK are hotels, taxies, booze, western food, Kamagra and FL thai girls and prices here are still surprisingly cheap.

[QUOTE=SuperLove;1546421]Please suggest best place to visit in Bangkok[/QUOTE]Given that this is an almost identical post to the one on the [i]Bangkok Massage Parlors - Except TULIP and ANNIES! [/i] thread, I've answered it there:

[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?1421-Bangkok-Massage-Parlors-Except-TULIP-and-ANNIES!&p=1546616&viewfull=1#post1546616[/url]

[QUOTE=Skogis; 1546608]My observations reaches 8 years back when I first started to hit BKK and for the pricing of top ends hotel I think it was relatively more expensive 8 years back then it is today (due to stronger competition today.

I am not arguing that in general BKK have become more expensive (I would not have a clue regarding lets say typical living expenses as that does not realy affect me either since I am so lucky I can come and go as I like). What is important to me when in BKK are hotels, taxies, booze, western food, Kamagra and FL thai girls and prices here are still surprisingly cheap.[/QUOTE]I think a taxi from the airport to lower Suk costs about THB50 more than a couple of years ago. Big deal.

You may be right about the hotels; and the good news is there is about to be another round of hotel development in Bangkok and Pattaya. So downward pressure on prices will continue.

I think long time expats and sex tourists have different perspectives. Expats live in BKK and experience the rising cost of living as the standard of living of the average Thai improves. We live in relatively expensive parts of the world, Northern Europe and North America. We fly in, fuck and fly out. Most things in Bangkok seem cheap to us.

I had a great time in December and can't wait until June and my next visit; and every visit I try to stretch out longer and make more time for mongering. Frankly, I don't recall ever hearing a first time sex tourist complain about Bangkok's P4P scene. In December I was having a drink at Dr BJ's Salon waiting to go upstairs and bang a consultant in the VIP room. Two young guys, first time visitors, had just finished getting a BJ and were enjoying a drink. They had grins that stretched from one ear to the other. Both emphatically said they found Bangkok's sex scene to be even better than they expected.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot; 1546386]Considering the new feminist slant in Thai Unis (women outnumber men in Unis by quite a bit and Thailand has more women CEOs than any other nation) , I think things will continue to change far quicker than most of us would like.

Another change, most of the younger foreigners I know are just not down with mongering. I know plenty of young dudes through the music scene, foodie scene, and work who have grown up with the Western Feminist model when it comes to mongering. It is deeply engrained in their heads.

Contrast the scene now with what is was just 5 short years ago. A mere shadow in every way, shape, and form.

I would be very surprised if within a decade things have not been cleaned up considerably, at least in BKK. Pattaya may be another matter, but with the awful demographics haunting the place nowadays, who wants to go there anyway?[/QUOTE]got to agree with Khun Goat on this. The poison of feminism has been creeping into every facet of western society. Here in LA virtually all (white) men below their early 30s are some variation of Metrosexual. There has been such a war on masculinity in this country's schools that it's frightening. When they finally graduate from these Stalinist indoctrination camps, err, schools, they have been completely emasculated. I suspect they all think the sun shines out of some radical lesbian's ass.

Not to be content with fucking up the USA, these dragons have been polluting all of the Western world. While Thailand has a different evolutionary history than the west, I fear that the same poison is creeping into Thai society as well. Maybe not. But the times they are a'changin'.

In my travels I've always preferred, whenever possible, to conduct nocturnal operations as the locals might. Being a furriner you can't do that 100. Having said that, I won't be sorry to see the go-gos, and such garishness, go away. I've long thought that BKK suffered from a long-running Vietnam War hangover. The in-your-face bars, massage venues, etc, are 1970s relics. I'm surprised the Thais have put up with them as long as they have. I truly think their days are numbered.

Oh, and ditto on the PTY demos. Frightening.

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1546743]There has been such a war on masculinity in this country's schools that it's frightening.[/QUOTE]Had a girl friend in San Francisco from Eastern Europe. Had plenty of opportunities to see her middle school son's life. What I noticed was the girls his age were the agents of the emasculation you describe. Twelve-year old girls are so much more mature than boys their age. Empower and encourage those girls and the poor boys lack the maturity to defend themselves. My girl friend, who was a supper smart professional, said her son would not have to deal with that had she stayed in Eastern Europe. A few years ago I listened to an National Public Radio interview with a woman, a sociologist with a teenage daughter. She wrote a book about this problem and complained as a mother she wanted her daughter to have better prospects for a potential spouse than the timid adolescents boys her daughter went to school with. She thought society was making a terrible mistake making concerted efforts to undermine the emotional development of boys. Of course I'm sure all the lesbian feminists who read ISG are laughing at us for writing the posts. Haha!

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch; 1546590]Salt Lake City may not be swarming with sex workers, but they are plentiful in every major USA city I've visited or lived in. I'm in South Florida now and they are very plentiful here, though mercenary attitudes are common and 90 minutes will cost the equivalent of THB9000 and up.

Can't speak for Manila, though I've heard plenty of good things about it, but as for BKK, I heartily agree. I have no problem finding ladies with good to great attitudes. Every lady I was with in December was fun to be with, and the sex ranged from pretty good to fantastic. Perhaps there are fewer desirable ladies in the gogos, but I've stopped looking for ladies there. I was in Climax with Bo and Cheer from Bamboo one Sunday night and the venue was filled with ladies in the 6 to 8 range. They outnumbered the guys 5 to 1. Of course everything is more expensive than it was 10 years ago. Where isn't it? But I just booked a room in the Sofitel, a newer 5-star hotel right on lower Sukhumvit. I'm paying only US$111++ per night! And I'm confident I'll get a free upgrade when I check in. Not many major cities on this planet where you can get a room in a 5-star hotel in a prime location at that price. I'm looking forward to eating great food from the sidewalk stalls, and paying far less than I would for a lousy hamburger in a fast food joint in the USA. Two hours with a honey from an MP will cost one-third (or less) than 90 minutes with a hooker in South Florida, and I know the Bangkok babe will have a better attitude. Hell, for not much more than the 90 minutes with the Florida hooker costs I can book a great escort in Bangkok for overnight.

Relatively speaking Bangkok is a low cost travel destination with a great sex scene. As for the attitudes of the ladies, what goes around comes around. If you have a good attitude you're more likely to be pleased with the lady's attitude. But don't be foolish and think one can have the same experience on the same budget as 5 or 10 years ago.

Thailand is developing. There are plenty of employment options. For decades now women in Issan have been having smaller and smaller families. Bangkok is still a great destination; I expect it still will be in 5 years; and I expect in 5 years guys will be complaining that it is not as good as it was 5 years ago.

When I was a kid my father used to feed me this crap about it was better when he was growing up. He was growing up in the fucking 1930s during the USA depression! He also told me sometimes he'd eat green beans three meals a day five days a week and feel fortunate his family had a garden so they had food to eat. Right, it sure sounds like it was better when he was growing up. Ah for the good old days.[/QUOTE]And yes, I imagine it will be less wonderful for the monger in another 5 years. Comparing Bangkok to the US or any other destination is disingenuous, especially for a resident. We are comparing the scene and costs from a decade ago to the scene now in Bangkok, and it is drastically different. As a resident for over 14 years I can tell you that it is easily 100% more expensive to live her than it was in '99 and I am being conservative. Yes, that takes the weak dollar into account as well. Beer in gogos was 80 baht, girls 500-1000 baht, BF in Cowboy bars 400 baht, with a 50% discount card two could eat at the JW Marriot buffet for 12. 50 US per person. Yep 1k baht out the door for 2. 111++? You could stay at the Landmark for well less than 100 USD in 99. Could get a great hotel for 1k a night in BKK. BKK was cheap, user friendly and fun. I still have a great time here, just not in the P4P scene. To throw in a comparison, I doubt it is 100% more expensive to live in a US or European city when compared with 14 years ago.

Most of the residents that I know don't frequent gogos or discos so much and many of the girls that work in those establishments aren't real fond of locals who speak the language. We are just not easy marks. In the "good ole days" the majority of gals wanted one thing, a dude to take care of them. Now most can bank more not having a boyfriend or husband. Good on 'them, but not so good for us.

Don't get me wrong, I like many things about the rampant development (boutique coffee roasters, expanding Indie music scene, etc) , I still choose to live here, but as a mongering destination, maybe for the tourist and the occasional visitor it is ok, but for the long term resident, meh is about the best I can muster.

Tourists and residents have different requirements. Nothing wrong with either. I have been both. If you were living here your perspective would change a bit I think.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1546653]I think long time expats and sex tourists have different perspectives. Expats live in BKK and experience the rising cost of living as the standard of living of the average Thai improves. We live in relatively expensive parts of the world, Northern Europe and North America. We fly in, fuck and fly out. Most things in Bangkok seem cheap to us.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Goatscrot; 1546774]And yes, I imagine it will be less wonderful for the monger in another 5 years. Comparing Bangkok to the US or any other destination is disingenuous, especially for a resident. We are comparing the scene and costs from a decade ago to the scene now in Bangkok, and it is drastically different.

Tourists and residents have different requirements. Nothing wrong with either. I have been both. If you were living here your perspective would change a bit I think.[/QUOTE]We agree that the tourist and expat have different perspectives. See the part of my earlier post (above) in a reply to Skogis. I was following up on a Skogis post and writing strictly from the perspective of a tourist.

[QUOTE=Shazaam1971; 1546598]Hi everyone,

This is my first post and I wanted to start by thanking all of your for the great information I have enjoyed! I am preparing to make Bangkok my home and although it is a dream come true, it also means that I will never again be able to enjoy all that the city has to offer with anonymity. I will have to be very careful regarding where I am seen due to my employment and exposure. I have begun to think critically about how to continue the hobby with as little risk as possible. Cowboy, known oilies and the like are unfortunately out. I have found some fun FS times on my travels with the regular massage shops but of course that is hit and miss and it kind of zaps the fun when you must be quiet on a small mat. Is there a scene that fits the bill where one can go during the day (nights are out too unfortunately) with very little risk of being seen. A more local area would very much fit the bill. I must watch out for Farang eyes who might know who I am.

Thanks in advance, and I look forward to becoming a contributor!

Shaz[/QUOTE]Fake glasses are the key. Look at Clark Kent, not a single person ever figured out his true identity, just couldn't make the connection given the brilliance of the disguise. This will allow you to go whereever you want, when you want: for example: take in the Beer Garden vibe, check out early morning Sukhumvit beauties between Soi 3 and Soi 5, peruse the late afternoon hotties at Nana Parking Lot, or enjoy the wonders of Soi 4 bars, where you can hang all day playing pool with hot chicks, and then bang em in the shortterm rooms when they won't take no for an answer.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=clark+kent&qs=n&form=QBIR&pq=clark+kent&sc=8-9&sp=-1&sk=#view=detail&id=BB136796F87DA8C07C367252149B934C150C2E9B&selectedIndex=113

[QUOTE=11Bravo; 1546619]Given that this is an almost identical post to the one on the [i]Bangkok Massage Parlors. Except TULIP and ANNIES! [/i] Thread, I've answered it there:

[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?1421-Bangkok-Massage-Parlors-Except-TULIP-and-ANNIES!&p=1546616&viewfull=1#post1546616[/url][/QUOTE]Talking about class management, have fun in reading this PM I got yesterday. The sender has a big 13 post history (I didn't bother to check their content). There is no trace anywhere on ISG I have ever mongered in India, nevertheless the guy decided I am an expert there! Go imagine if they read! This guy must deserve the top prize fir the month. On a side note read the "I request." Not even my employer or my wife address to me this way! LOL.

And then they accuse us of profiling on Indians? It is their behaviour rule! Last night I saw two guys in lower sukhumvit dealing with a lady. I can bet what the deal was about."You. Us. Altogether. Same room. Same price for the hour."

+++++

Re: Hi,

Dear sir, this is a doctor from Bangalore working in karimnagar requesting you to share independent contact girl or ladies from hyderabad prefarably north east or nepali. I would reciprocate with a very nice south indian contact from secundrabad. Thanks. Kindly note if you don't have any northeast girls any good south indian will do.

++++

I hope not to be sick in India if that is the approach of a doctor there. And FFS, do we care if a mongerer is a doctor or a welder?

I will ask him for the gps coordinates of the girls he is looking for. Starts from Nepal and ends in Andaman Sea, maybe it is sufficient she breathes and her body temperature is 37C: an alive body!

[QUOTE=Shazaam1971; 1546598]I will have to be very careful regarding where I am seen due to my employment and exposure.

Shaz[/QUOTE]You might consider finding some nondescript hotels in parts of town where you are unlikely to run into people you know and have escorts or MP girls on outcalls see you in your hotel room.

All of TWO posts:
[QUOTE=Shazaam1971; 1467824][b] 09-04-13 09:37, Bombay thread:[/b] Dear Esteemed Mumbai Mongers.

I hope you can sympathize with my situation and lend a helping hand. I have been working in a Bermuda Triangle of mongering in the middle east for three years[/QUOTE]Geesh, I worked for a number of years in the Middle East and found that I could offer a [i]few[/i] FR's. Yes, you might not work in the UAE, but distance and flights very manageable in the region.

[QUOTE=Shazaam1971;1467824][b] 09-04-13 09:37, Bombay thread:[/b]I hope this does not come off as desperate even though it is; my last excursion to Beijing was awash with mongering fails which could have been avoided with some sage advice.[/QUOTE]So, rather than offer [i]cautions[/i] of what didn't work to [i]fellow[/i], and I use that term [u]loosely[/u], mongers, well, why waste [u]YOUR[/u] time helping [u]OTHERS[/u]?

[QUOTE=Shazaam1971;1467824][b] 09-04-13 09:37, Bombay thread:[/b]I have nothing to offer in terms of returning new information although I will report back on my exploits[/QUOTE]Unfortunately for you, ISG offers a very convenient search methodology: click on a member's name to the left of any of their posts, in the pop-up window select "View Forum Posts", and [b]SHAZAAM[/b], there you go. Or NOT, in your specific case.

[QUOTE=Shazaam1971; 1546598]it also means that I will never again be able to enjoy all that the city has to offer with anonymity. I will have to be very careful regarding where I am seen due to my employment and exposure. I have begun to think critically about how to continue the hobby with as little risk as possible. Cowboy, known oilies and the like are unfortunately out. I have found some fun FS times on my travels with the regular massage shops but of course that is hit and miss and it kind of zaps the fun when you must be quiet on a small mat. Is there a scene that fits the bill where one can go during the day (nights are out too unfortunately) with very little risk of being seen. A more local area would very much fit the bill. I must watch out for Farang eyes who might know who I am.

Thanks in advance, and I look forward to becoming a contributor![/QUOTE]Well, I'll wait and see about your [i]contributions.[/i] However, unlike you, I'm willing to help:[list][*]Buy a motorcycle. They are a real godsend for beating the horrendous traffic in BKK[*]Buy a full bike helmet, with tinted face shield.[*]Wear that. Just make sure not to try to walk into any banks.[*]Or try any of the oft mentioned escort agencies - a whole thread here dedicated to them.[/list]I am sure YOU think your swelled head will make you stand out, but, sorry to say, the reality is, your head is the SAME size as everybody else's. And, truth be told, to most every Falang, you all look the same.

[QUOTE=Eric Swiss;1546364]We negotiated the details for short time and, just after I'd paid the bar fine, I saw a girl exactly my type, #101, go up the stage and start dancing. Darn, it's always like that! Or is it "the grass is greener" automatic regret? [/QUOTE]When I first started visiting Thailand, was out in a Nana bar with a colleague who lived here. He gave me some very sage advice which has stood me in good stead over the decades: "Don't be a kid in a candy store, looking here, looking there, [u]trying[/u] to pick the "best" [i]sweet[/i]. Pick one, take, and enjoy. If you've spotted another, just take the NEXT time."

[QUOTE=BionicMan; 1546806]Talking about class management, have fun in reading this PM I got yesterday.

And then they accuse us of profiling on Indians? It is their behaviour rule! Last night I saw two guys in lower sukhumvit dealing with a lady. I can bet what the deal was about."You. Us. Altogether. Same room. Same price for the hour."[/QUOTE]Obviously, the doctor had done his research. :) I think it's like spam e-mail; they blast out any number, hoping to get a few [i]hits[/i].

And yes, at least with the dxb wg's, the sub-continent known for their "Musketeers" mentality. On the other hand, had one regular who told me, up front, she charged them less than me as they made less money.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1546792]We agree that the tourist and expat have different perspectives. See the part of my earlier post (above) in a reply to Skogis. I was following up on a Skogis post and writing strictly from the perspective of a tourist.[/QUOTE]I think that is spot on Paul. Expats move to place because they like the way it "is." We also tend to come here with our Western perspective on development. Things have changed more in Thailand in the 14 years I have been here than they have changed in 30 back home in D / FW, TX. We just don't expect for it to change that fast.

Many things in Thailand are more expensive then they are in the US. Alcohol for one, western food and good coffee for another. Yes, hotels are cheaper than major cities in the US, but that really has no effect on the expat. Quality clothing is way more expensive in Thailand, as are cars and gasoline. Being in BKK I own a motorbike not a car, but if I ever move out of BKK a car will be needed.

Rents, well that depends. Do you want to live in a place that is new and western standard? Well, for a one bedroom you are looking at a minimum of 25k baht, which is about 100% more than what it was 10 years ago.

Local food is cheap and the biggie, so is health insurance. I pay about 1100 USD per year for a major med policy that covers up to 1 mil US per year. At almost 50 years old, that is a great deal.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1546848]Expats move to place because they like the way it "is." We also tend to come here with our Western perspective on development. Things have changed more in Thailand in the 14 years I have been here than they have changed in 30 back home in D / FW, TX. We just don't expect for it to change that fast.[/QUOTE]Your first sentence above is very insightful. Anyone lucky enough to find a place to live they love is eventually going to be disappointed, because it will change. Developing countries in particular can change very fast.

So I sympathize with the expats living in Bangkok; and because I'm seriously considering moving to Thailand in the next few years I pay close attention to what you are saying. You fight and struggle in your native land. Your lucky enough to escape and find yourself in Valhalla, only to watch it disappear due to forces beyond your control.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot; 1546848]I think that is spot on Paul. Expats move to place because they like the way it "is." We also tend to come here with our Western perspective on development. Things have changed more in Thailand in the 14 years I have been here than they have changed in 30 back home in D / FW, TX. We just don't expect for it to change that fast.

Many things in Thailand are more expensive then they are in the US. Alcohol for one, western food and good coffee for another. Yes, hotels are cheaper than major cities in the US, but that really has no effect on the expat. Quality clothing is way more expensive in Thailand, as are cars and gasoline. Being in BKK I own a motorbike not a car, but if I ever move out of BKK a car will be needed.

Rents, well that depends. Do you want to live in a place that is new and western standard? Well, for a one bedroom you are looking at a minimum of 25k baht, which is about 100% more than what it was 10 years ago.

Local food is cheap and the biggie, so is health insurance. I pay about 1100 USD per year for a major med policy that covers up to 1 mil US per year. At almost 50 years old, that is a great deal.[/QUOTE]As far as mongering and so forth trend is downhill for sure, but Bangkok still has a long way to go to reach bottom.

Bangkok in terms of intensity and the overall vibe matches up as a world class city, more comparable to NYC than the Dallas Ft Worth Metroplex area. Unless its downtown, newer one bedrooms go below 20k, studios in first rate buildings down to 12k plus most have incredible swimming pools nearly non existent in places like NYC. In fact 8 miles from downtown presentable apartments can be found for approx 5k, and while not fancy, and lacking pools, or next door to the MRT, it will generally be adequate. You can't even find (self) storage boxes in many western cities at those rates. In NYC a one bedroom would typically be around 100k in anyplace with even a minimum amount of safety, and nearly always an old building. As for western food, perhaps you're talking about buying imported steaks at Foodlander or Villa Market, because prepared western food can be far cheaper than the USA in many of the chain restaurants in places like Terminal 21 or elsewhere, and in fact offer better fares than the same restaurants offer back in the states. Now as far as mongering. Let me use Skogis style as an example to prove the point, really the somewhat upper fringes of P4P, basically Hi So / semi pro/ FL club hopping / mongering. Perhaps he can comment, but I doubt he could pull that kind of action in NYC or London or other major western cities for 5 times what he is paying in Bangkok. Nor do I think he would get comparable quality EVEN if it were available and was willing to pay 5 times more. Now while the Global Nanpa guy has disappeared, he too was directing most of his efforts in Bangkok and nearby countries - precisely because he deemed Bangkok a bargain at the higher end also. As far as normal mongering, there is no comparison in the USA at all in terms of extended shortterm or long terms, or the sheer number of semi pros in this market, or anything remotely like the soapie palaces of Ratchada, oil massage parlors, regular bars, Go Go's, or even street girls, unless one considers crack hoes working NYC as comparable to FL's hanging at Nana parking lot, Beer Garden or elsewhere around the city. The market in most western cities, especially the USA just doesn't exist in comparable form. Just the visuals in Bangkok are quite extraordinary, with beautiful women seemingly everywhere, very different than the states and many other western cities.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1546349]Stick's report is spot on. The Coyote idiocy certainly adds to the woes. Why should a girl service dudes when she can make 35k a month or more just dancing? It just gets worse and worse.[/QUOTE]BKK is just too trendy now. No matter where you are going in Thailand, BKK is going to be your first and last stop. Go Go Bars are now just like US strip clubs. But strip clubs are not full of gawking tourists, just drinking and killing time before they head off to some beach.

I lived in BKK for 6 years and I can say without a doubt, I will never drink Singha, San Mig Light, or Heineken ever again. If you have seen 1 temple, you have seen them all. Thai food is good, but there is nothing 100% authentic about eating Thai food in Thailand. Thai food is Thai food.

If getting as many cheap shags as possible is your only goal on a vacation, sure BKK and the sewer known as Pattaya is still perhaps your best bet.

But if your goal is to enjoy many of the finer things in life such as Beer, Wine, a variety of cusines, skunk weed, and clean air! There are lots of better places to go than Thailand. Plus you could probably fuck white and black girls too!

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1546867]So I sympathize with the expats living in Bangkok; and because I'm seriously considering moving to Thailand in the next few years I pay close attention to what you are saying. You fight and struggle in your native land. Your lucky enough to escape and find yourself in Valhalla, only to watch it disappear due to forces beyond your control.[/QUOTE]LOL, if someone got to spent 14 years in Bangkok, much of it in the "Golden Years" or just a few years, or can spend months at a time at will, or can do high volume frequent-visits there is no need for sympathy, as such person is thus un shackled from western based ballbusters, something few males can ever hope to accomplish, and thus would be deemed "damn lucky". This brings to mind what the David Mamet created character "Charles Morse" (Anthony Hopkins) in THE EDGE said to Alex Baldwin "Never feel sorry for a man who owns his own plane."

[QUOTE=Skogis; 1546608]My observations reaches 8 years back when I first started to hit BKK and for the pricing of top ends hotel I think it was relatively more expensive 8 years back then it is today (due to stronger competition today. Demos, floods and in general an unruly gvm ofcourse have brought visitors down atleast into BKK itself). The prices in BHT have been almost the same. For my earlier monger hotel Grand President a deluxe suite costed 2200 incl taxes and still do today (is it more expensive or cheaper today relatively speaking?). For the girls I started with picking a FL girl from Thermae if I remember correctly and I gave her 3K back then and I still do pay the girls 3k in general for real LT play. I pick from every known FL nightclub there is but ofcourse staying many times over the years in Grand President most of my picks have come from Climax. Still 3k compensation. I NEVER discuss price upfront just a hand out when they leave and I have yet, as far as I remember, to see a girl have been unhappy.

Earlier years Spasso in Hyatt Erewan was a typical 5K LT pickup place. Girls pimping themself more up in coctail dresses. The latest years easy to have girls here for 3 to 4K? Have it become cheaper or more expensive? The number and quality of girls same same from my observation. Even had 2 FL`s from spasso for 6K (gave them 3 each).

Once again maby the girls under the barfinesystem one way or another have become more expensive, well it does no affect me as if I meet girls operating in this scene I meet them when they change into the FL scene. Even btls of vodka I think run in the same pricerange than I first started to come here (in the clubs that is).

I am not arguing that in general BKK have become more expensive (I would not have a clue regarding lets say typical living expenses as that does not realy affect me either since I am so lucky I can come and go as I like). What is important to me when in BKK are hotels, taxies, booze, western food, Kamagra and FL thai girls and prices here are still surprisingly cheap.[/QUOTE]In my experience Bangkok can be as cheap or expensive as you make it out to be. I like to stay in fine hotels as I firmly believe your environment plays a impact on how you feel throughout your trip. If I had had a rough day, I won't feel much better dragging myself to a 3 star filled with low class FL's and sleazy tuk-tuk drivers. I had had some very expensive nights but mostly it wasn't for the sex itself but everything else. Clubbing, drinks, etc. For some reason this really tends to add up in Bangkok. If you just stick to the sex then you are getting a great deal compared to many other mongering destinations.

I have taken girls overnight at 3-5K from Gogo's and ended up spending 10K just on the night out. Dinner, Bottle Service, Cab Rides, Wine etc, etc. By the time we get back to the room I am so inebriated that I can't even perform to my best that even the money for the sex seems wasted. I have never tried the FL scene, normally sticking to Gogos and Escort Services but I think my next trip should be focused here. If the girl is already at the venue, I won't worry about serenading her much and just take her back to the hotel after a few drinks. Escorts can also get very pricey for a night out intown, especially with their rate added to the mix and bar girls tabs can also really add up so I am defo leaning the FL venue next trip. I also get to pick and choose and mingle not worrying about time or bar fines. I have seen some very attractive FL's in front of the Sofitel Hotel on Suk and I am sure I can pull them LT for less than these escorts and Bar Girls

These extra's have really burned a hole in me during some of my trips. Things that you don't consider but add up and the up-sell on the sex becomes that much more and its not worth the price at the day. That being said. 5 star hotels and their service for the price cannot be beat anywhere else in the world and perhaps the seafood.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch; 1546867]Your first sentence above is very insightful. Anyone lucky enough to find a place to live they love is eventually going to be disappointed, because it will change. Developing countries in particular can change very fast.

So I sympathize with the expats living in Bangkok; and because I'm seriously considering moving to Thailand in the next few years I pay close attention to what you are saying. You fight and struggle in your native land. Your lucky enough to escape and find yourself in Valhalla, only to watch it disappear due to forces beyond your control.[/QUOTE]To slightly paraphrase Oscar Wilde, We kill the thing we love.

Yes, Thailand of the late '90s through the '00s was great. I'm convinced it was even better, from what others have told me, in the 70s and 80s. Unfortunately, the beginning of the end was the confluence of cheap airfares and the Internet. All the guys who had found "Nirvana" talked about it. The hordes descended. The place changed.

Doesn't matter if it's a hooker bar in BKK, a hidden gem of a restaurant in Brussels or a deserted beach in Jamaica. If you blab it, they will come. And they did. And things will never be the same. They might be good, they might be bad, but they'll never be the same.

Like you, I have long planned to make Thailand my home, but I've been having second thoughts. I can probably learn to live with being a second class citizen. But I have hobbies I like. I like old cars. I like wine. I like to travel. Unfortunately these things are damned expensive in Thailand. Constant visa renewals, or whatever they call them, have to be a PITA. The inability to (easily) own property. Sometimes I wonder if the Thais really want farang living there. Dunno. Others can shed more light. Maybe I'm overthinking it. But Mexico is looking better as a permanent base. God knows the USA is going to be unlivable in a few years.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1546751]Had a girl friend in San Francisco from Eastern Europe. Had plenty of opportunities to see her middle school son's life. What I noticed was the girls his age were the agents of the emasculation you describe. Twelve-year old girls are so much more mature than boys their age. Empower and encourage those girls and the poor boys lack the maturity to defend themselves. My girl friend, who was a supper smart professional, said her son would not have to deal with that had she stayed in Eastern Europe. A few years ago I listened to an National Public Radio interview with a woman, a sociologist with a teenage daughter. She wrote a book about this problem and complained as a mother she wanted her daughter to have better prospects for a potential spouse than the timid adolescents boys her daughter went to school with. She thought society was making a terrible mistake making concerted efforts to undermine the emotional development of boys. Of course I'm sure all the lesbian feminists who read ISG are laughing at us for writing the posts. Haha![/QUOTE]And if the boys start to act like boys they are punished (by overwhelmingly female teaching staffs) or medicated. Suspended for pointing a finger at a friend and saying "Bang." Sexual harassment charges filed by a first grade teacher who was hugged by one of her students. Don't forget the pop-tart incident.

Meanwhile, the girls are encouraged to be masculine, to literally "be one of the guys." TV shows and movies now are chock-full of petite females beating the shit out of burly men. Fathers and husbands are portrayed as permanently adolescent dumbshits.

As you so correctly pointed out, the ironic part is that the end product, after the feminists have had their way, is a weak, narcissistic, promiscuous, unable to commit man that no woman wants for a mate. Of course, to be fair, nobody wants an ill-tempered feminist termagant, looking to take your kids and house, as a wife. Way to go, Gloria.

[QUOTE=Moris54; 1546888]In my experience Bangkok can be as cheap or expensive as you make it out to be.[/QUOTE]Like you I prefer to stay in a nicer hotel. For under US$125 one can find excellent hotels in great locations. I always book one of the cheapest rooms and almost always get an upgrade to a deluxe room. I love bargain luxury. I get my food at the sidewalk stalls and hole-in-the-wall open air joints with a table of food in the front and plastic tables and chairs in the back. I think I eat well and spend very little. Where I am really able to save a lot money and time wasted due to poor judgement is by limiting my drinking. I go to Bangkok to fuck, and though I can be drunk as hell and still get it up thanks to the Cialis, I prefer being fully conscious when I bang a young wench. Also, because I'm such an old fart, when I drink too much I'm useless the next day. I saw plenty of nice looking FLs during my December stay. They were in the bars, on the sidewalks and especially in Climax Club. Didn't see and didn't expect to see any nines; saw at least a few eights and lots of sevens. I also had good luck with MP girls on outcall. Aor ended up costing me as much as a good escort, but that is because she was the wildest fuck I had in a long time and my tip reflected that. Bo and Cheer were 1000 each to Bamboo for 9pm to the next morning. Of course I tipped on top of that, but that was at my discretion so I was free to give them exactly what I thought was fair. I think I gave them about 3000 to 4000 each and they were very happy; and twelve hours with two horny young ladies sure made me very happy. I still can't get over what a nympho Cheer is. Even when after I add in the cost of a few escorts which I booked for anywhere from four to ten hours, I was able to consume plenty of pussy without going over my budget.

[QUOTE=Moris54; 1546888]In my experience Bangkok can be as cheap or expensive as you make it out to be. I like to stay in fine hotels as I firmly believe your environment plays a impact on how you feel throughout your trip. If I had had a rough day, I won't feel much better dragging myself to a 3 star filled with low class FL's and sleazy tuk-tuk drivers. I had had some very expensive nights but mostly it wasn't for the sex itself but everything else. Clubbing, drinks, etc. For some reason this really tends to add up in Bangkok. If you just stick to the sex then you are getting a great deal compared to many other mongering destinations.

I have taken girls overnight at 3-5K from Gogo's and ended up spending 10K just on the night out. Dinner, Bottle Service, Cab Rides, Wine etc, etc. By the time we get back to the room I am so inebriated that I can't even perform to my best that even the money for the sex seems wasted. I have never tried the FL scene, normally sticking to Gogos and Escort Services but I think my next trip should be focused here. If the girl is already at the venue, I won't worry about serenading her much and just take her back to the hotel after a few drinks. Escorts can also get very pricey for a night out intown, especially with their rate added to the mix and bar girls tabs can also really add up so I am defo leaning the FL venue next trip. I also get to pick and choose and mingle not worrying about time or bar fines. I have seen some very attractive FL's in front of the Sofitel Hotel on Suk and I am sure I can pull them LT for less than these escorts and Bar Girls

These extra's have really burned a hole in me during some of my trips. Things that you don't consider but add up and the up-sell on the sex becomes that much more and its not worth the price at the day. That being said. 5 star hotels and their service for the price cannot be beat anywhere else in the world and perhaps the seafood.[/QUOTE]Sounds like Nana Hotel would be an excellent option. Its actually a fairly decent hotel overall, far better than many in here seem to admit. While the baths are sort of 1970's, they are nicely kept and everything else is pretty good. FL's in the parking lot average 1500 bahts and will often offer repeat for 1000 once they know you're a gentlemen. Add to this 10 to 12 major pool bars on Soi 4 with 100's girls available all day just in those venues, and its hard to beat the setup. And of course at night, Go Go girls actually like the hotel given its safety and close proximity and so forth, and actually seem to prefer it over the shortterm rooms. Except perhaps for Hi-So party girl semi-pros, high end hotels really don't impress Thai working girls that much anyways. Note even in the pool bars on Soi 4, if one checks the inventory at various times of the day, one can and will find some stunners.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1546905]Where I am really able to save a lot money and time wasted due to poor judgement is by limiting my drinking.[/QUOTE]Right on point Paul. Its not just the money spent on drinking too much, but also the poor judgement that leads to spending more without thinking. I am flying dry on my next trip.

[quote=phordphan; 1546899]and if the boys start to act like boys they are punished (by overwhelmingly female teaching staffs) or medicated. suspended for pointing a finger at a friend and saying "bang." sexual harassment charges filed by a first grade teacher who was hugged by one of her students. don't forget the pop-tart incident.

meanwhile, the girls are encouraged to be masculine, to literally "be one of the guys." tv shows and movies now are chock-full of petite females beating the shit out of burly men. fathers and husbands are portrayed as permanently adolescent dumbshits.

as you so correctly pointed out, the ironic part is that the end product, after the feminists have had their way, is a weak, narcissistic, promiscuous, unable to commit man that no woman wants for a mate. of course, to be fair, nobody wants an ill-tempered feminist termagant, looking to take your kids and house, as a wife. way to go, gloria.[/quote]i have begun to notice that american "men" who haven't been emasculated since school, those who grew up with a strong father figure and generally don't make excuses for being a man tend to go a complete 180 after marriage. on a subconscious level, especially in the usa after marriage, the woman always thinks to herself "got him!" they are systematically trained by their female peer group that this is the beginning of emasculation for a grown man. after a few years into the marriage you find the man is a complete tool in front of the wife. she dictates everything from his clothing, to the household decisions as well as the kids well being. this is turn will affect the kids, especially if they are young boys. they will get bullied, harassed and even victimized in school and not have the gall to stand up for what they believe in and whats right because the man in their lives is just as bad. these kids then grow up to have a very distorted idea about themselves and it leads to severe mental and social issues.

i love what you said about tv and movies. teeny ass girls beating the shit out of burly men who seem helpless and defenseless. yet there will be an outcry if the woman is given the same treatment no matter how much you prove is a fictitious controlled environment. the movie may be banned, the director vilified. and god knows what else.

case in point. who makes the largest outcry about sex workers and mongering? feminists. as much as they hate to admit it, most girls are in the industry by choice and make a good living much more so than most feminists who are just jealous of the freedom and choice their lifestyle affords. they claim to blame us mongers for perpetuating the industry, but in reality its the girls themselves that they truly hate because it invalidates all their feminist claims.

[QUOTE=Moris54;1546926]Case in point. Who makes the largest outcry about sex workers and mongering? Feminists.[/QUOTE]And fat unattractive women.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1546874]As far as mongering and so forth trend is downhill for sure, but Bangkok still has a long way to go to reach bottom.

Bangkok in terms of intensity and the overall vibe matches up as a world class city, more comparable to NYC than the Dallas Ft Worth Metroplex area. Unless its downtown, newer one bedrooms go below 20k, studios in first rate buildings down to 12k plus most have incredible swimming pools nearly non existent in places like NYC. In fact 8 miles from downtown presentable apartments can be found for approx 5k, and while not fancy, and lacking pools, or next door to the MRT, it will generally be adequate. You can't even find (self) storage boxes in many western cities at those rates. In NYC a one bedroom would typically be around 100k in anyplace with even a minimum amount of safety, and nearly always an old building. As for western food, perhaps you're talking about buying imported steaks at Foodlander or Villa Market, because prepared western food can be far cheaper than the USA in many of the chain restaurants in places like Terminal 21 or elsewhere, and in fact offer better fares than the same restaurants offer back in the states. Now as far as mongering. Let me use Skogis style as an example to prove the point, really the somewhat upper fringes of P4P, basically Hi So / semi pro / FL club hopping / mongering. Perhaps he can comment, but I doubt he could pull that kind of action in NYC or London or other major western cities for 5 times what he is paying in Bangkok. Nor do I think he would get comparable quality EVEN if it were available and was willing to pay 5 times more. Now while the Global Nanpa guy has disappeared, he too was directing most of his efforts in Bangkok and nearby countries. Precisely because he deemed Bangkok a bargain at the higher end also. As far as normal mongering, there is no comparison in the USA at all in terms of extended shortterm or long terms, or the sheer number of semi pros in this market, or anything remotely like the soapie palaces of Ratchada, oil massage parlors, regular bars, Go Go's, or even street girls, unless one considers crack hoes working NYC as comparable to FL's hanging at Nana parking lot, Beer Garden or elsewhere around the city. The market in most western cities, especially the USA just doesn't exist in comparable form. Just the visuals in Bangkok are quite extraordinary, with beautiful women seemingly everywhere, very different than the states and many other western cities.[/QUOTE]You can't compare it to NYC because salaries are not near what they are in NYC. One of the biggest issues with BKK is the disparity between cost of living and salaries. When you start comparing what the average person makes in NYC to what the average person makes here, the cost in BKK is even more out of whack.

I think quality Western food is far more expensive here. I really don't eat at chain restaurants here or in the. I find most of them at best just so-so.

I can get a pretty good steak in the US at a restaurant for less than 20 bucks. Here one can hardly get a good steak for 600 baht.

Again, with working girls you have to look at what the average person makes in that city. If you are making six figures plus in NYC, you can afford to pay for a hooker there.

I agree with you 100% about the visuals. Bangkok is the best place in the world to gaze at beautiful women. Sadly so many are out of reach these days.

[QUOTE=Western787;1546919]Sounds like Nana Hotel would be an excellent option. Its actually a fairly decent hotel overall, far better than many in here seem to admit. While the baths are sort of 1970's, they are nicely kept and everything else is pretty good. FL's in the parking lot average 1500 bahts and will often offer repeat for 1000 once they know you're a gentlemen. Add to this 10 to 12 major pool bars on Soi 4 with 100's girls available all day just in those venues, and its hard to beat the setup. And of course at night, Go Go girls actually like the hotel given its safety and close proximity and so forth, and actually seem to prefer it over the shortterm rooms. Except perhaps for Hi-So party girl semi-pros, high end hotels really don't impress Thai working girls that much anyways. Note even in the pool bars on Soi 4, if one checks the inventory at various times of the day, one can and will find some stunners.[/QUOTE]I prefer the Majestic Grande tucked away at the corner right across from Annies. I have stayed at a couple of 5 star hotels which don't even match up to this little gem. Ala JW Mariott.

To name just one.

The location is perfect and private and most girls love the hotel and I noticed some of the girls I picked from the Nana Area seems to chit.chat with the door staff which suggested to me they know each other. Many girls also comment on their breakfast service so its a good place to entice a LT as it seems like a place they enjoying going to and being at.

This is my go to place in BKK when mongering. Unless I feel like splurging on a true luxury hotel experience. But mongering in such venues is not as "free"

[QUOTE=Goatscrot; 1546943]Again, with working girls you have to look at what the average person makes in that city. If you are making six figures plus in NYC, you can afford to pay for a hooker there.

I agree with you 100% about the visuals. Bangkok is the best place in the world to gaze at beautiful women. Sadly so many are out of reach these days.[/QUOTE]Clearly you've never seen the girls of Singapore.

If I'm a retired guy making 6 figs, BKK is several hundred percent better value than NYC. There's no comparison. They're miles apart. There's also matters like the climate, feminism, the fat plague & prostitution law.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot; 1546943]You can't compare it to NYC because salaries are not near what they are in NYC. One of the biggest issues with BKK is the disparity between cost of living and salaries. When you start comparing what the average person makes in NYC to what the average person makes here, the cost in BKK is even more out of whack.

I think quality Western food is far more expensive here. I really don't eat at chain restaurants here or in the. I find most of them at best just so-so.

I can get a pretty good steak in the US at a restaurant for less than 20 bucks. Here one can hardly get a good steak for 600 baht.

Again, with working girls you have to look at what the average person makes in that city. If you are making six figures plus in NYC, you can afford to pay for a hooker there.

I agree with you 100% about the visuals. Bangkok is the best place in the world to gaze at beautiful women. Sadly so many are out of reach these days.[/QUOTE]LOL, after taxes and living expenses $100, 000 / yr NYC today? One is living near poverty, and that's w / o a car. Hookers? You mean like crack hoes?

As for the visuals, while she is not going to precisely look like the drop dead stunner you saw working the desk at Terminal 21 or the Hi So 10 you spotted in Siam, the fact is that anyone knowing Bangkok, whether high-frequency visitor or resident can come up with a P4P beauty to sleep with pretty much any night of the week. Now, it might only be once a week depending upon ones resources and so forth, but its doable. That's not routinely the case in either NYC or other major western cities for average males over 45. Despite the ongoing decade long decline in the P4P scene in Bangkok, that difference still exists vs western cities. So in Bangkok, the visuals pretty much become the reality. Yes, when moving about in Bangkok one sees no-touch fantasy level (non-P4P or mistress level) beauties all day long, but every time you see one you know damn well, if you so desire, you will soon be sleeping with one almost as beautiful.

[QUOTE=Moris54; 1546954]I prefer the Majestic Grande tucked away at the corner right across from Annies. I have stayed at a couple of 5 star hotels which don't even match up to this little gem. Ala JW Mariott.

To name just one.

The location is perfect and private and most girls love the hotel and I noticed some of the girls I picked from the Nana Area seems to chit. Chat with the door staff which suggested to me they know each other. Many girls also comment on their breakfast service so its a good place to entice a LT as it seems like a place they enjoying going to and being at.

This is my go to place in BKK when mongering. Unless I feel like splurging on a true luxury hotel experience. But mongering in such venues is not as "free"[/QUOTE]OK, you know the deal around Nana pretty well it seems. Yes, in regard to possibly enticing an LT, Majestic Grand would generally have an advantage over Nana Hotel. Probably the same into converting a ST into and extended ST or LT. I guess that's a factor one must consider when spending the extra 600 or so bahts over Nana Hotel.

Hi guys.

I am planning to be in Bangkok for half a week. In some of the older reports I have heard of men who contracted "girl friends" or LT girls for a few days. These girls would guide them, maybe cook for them, provide service and in general show them around.

What is the generally accepted price for such LT services? Also, any recommendations?

[QUOTE=Lord Necros; 1547134]Hi guys.

I am planning to be in Bangkok for half a week. In some of the older reports I have heard of men who contracted "girl friends" or LT girls for a few days. These girls would guide them, maybe cook for them, provide service and in general show them around.

What is the generally accepted price for such LT services? Also, any recommendations?[/QUOTE]Unattractive bar girl (3k to 4k per day) with bar taking 1 to 1. 5 k of that for barfine. Cook and do laundry.

Avg Issan bar girl (4 to 5k a day) cook only, fast food meals Ok, but you pay everything.

Cute bar girl (8k to 15k per day) cook rice and Thai dish only, but only at night.

Avg Go Go Girl (8k to 12k / day) microwave warmup, but no laundry, Tuk Tuk Ok.

Cute Go Go Girl (10 to 18k per day) no cooking, make you cook for her, Skytrain OK, but no Tuk Tuk.

Go Go Stunner (20 to 30k / day) no cooking, eat out all the time. 4 star hotel min

Go Go Superstar (one week min, 250k flat charge for entire week) 5 star hotel min.

G club girl 15k to 20k / day 5 star hotel min, cab Ok, only nice restaurants like " Took Lae Dee" at Foodlander or better

Escort agency girls 12 to 35k / day. 4 star min, fly coach to other asian destinations OK, Tuk Tuk Ok if girl approves.

G Club stunner 20 to 40k per day. 5 star hotel min, limosine service only, no Tuk Tuk, regular cabs only when limo service not available

(off market) model agency girls (50 to 100k / day) 5 star hotel only, only eat at top restaurants, travel other asian destinations only first class or private jet, shop at Siam once a week 50k budget, gaming allowance 25k/day if in Macau

Terminal 21 "special girls" (talk to doorman guy in white uniform about "nice weather", then salute him (in that order) and if he salutes back, he knows what you want) 100k/day flat rate, no other charges, Skytrain OK, but no subway unless journey begin at Terminal 21 Sukhumvit stop.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1547083]LOL, after taxes and living expenses $100, 000 / yr NYC today? One is living near poverty, and that's w / o a car. Hookers? You mean like crack hoes?

As for the visuals, while she is not going to precisely look like the drop dead stunner you saw working the desk at Terminal 21 or the Hi So 10 you spotted in Siam, the fact is that anyone knowing Bangkok, whether high-frequency visitor or resident can come up with a P4P beauty to sleep with pretty much any night of the week. Now, it might only be once a week depending upon ones resources and so forth, but its doable. That's not routinely the case in either NYC or other major western cities for average males over 45. Despite the ongoing decade long decline in the P4P scene in Bangkok, that difference still exists vs western cities. So in Bangkok, the visuals pretty much become the reality. Yes, when moving about in Bangkok one sees no-touch fantasy level (non-P4P or mistress level) beauties all day long, but every time you see one you know damn well, if you so desire, you will soon be sleeping with one almost as beautiful.[/QUOTE]The differences are why I live her for sure, but I would not say "you would be sleeping with one almost as beautiful." It is a very rare occasion I see a P4P gal at any venue as good looking as the gals that I see shopping in malls or eating and drinking in places along Thong Lor with their rich metrosexual Thai dudes. I am really not attracted to the Isaan look at all. High cheek bones and square jaw lines just don't do it for me and haven't for a long time. What attracts me? Easiest to say is the Thai TV stars. Girls are amazing. It is really interesting how one's taste change.

A friend's GF once remarked,"When farang first come to Thailand, their eyes don't work." I think that is true for most of us. It has been for me.

Frustrating thing is most of those gals are very much like Western women. They want dudes their age with money. That is true of BKK, NYC, or where ever. If one is loaded, one gets great looking girls.

But, there is always an oily when one gets really worked up.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl; 1547055]Clearly you've never seen the girls of Singapore.

If I'm a retired guy making 6 figs, BKK is several hundred percent better value than NYC. There's no comparison. They're miles apart. There's also matters like the climate, feminism, the fat plague & prostitution law.[/QUOTE]True! Sing has some great looking gals. But some interesting attitudes. Prostitution is illegal in Thailand, and at some point that will be enforced. The climate in Thailand is really pretty awful. Way too hot.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1547267]True! Sing has some great looking gals. But some interesting attitudes. Prostitution is illegal in Thailand, and at some point that will be enforced. The climate in Thailand is really pretty awful. Way too hot.[/QUOTE]Prostitution is not illegal in Thailand. Pimping is illegal; being a nuisance is illegal; exploiting a brothel is illegal.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot; 1547266]The differences are why I live her for sure, but I would not say "you would be sleeping with one almost as beautiful." It is a very rare occasion I see a P4P gal at any venue as good looking as the gals that I see shopping in malls or eating and drinking in places along Thong Lor with their rich metrosexual Thai dudes. I am really not attracted to the Isaan look at all. High cheek bones and square jaw lines just don't do it for me and haven't for a long time. What attracts me? Easiest to say is the Thai TV stars. Girls are amazing. It is really interesting how one's taste change.

A friend's GF once remarked,"When farang first come to Thailand, their eyes don't work." I think that is true for most of us. It has been for me.

Frustrating thing is most of those gals are very much like Western women. They want dudes their age with money. That is true of BKK, NYC, or where ever. If one is loaded, one gets great looking girls.

But, there is always an oily when one gets really worked up.[/QUOTE]As someone said "What you take for granted, others are praying for"

Farangs living in Bankgok can easily get spoiled. And obviously if one can pick out drop dead beauties in Siam or Terminal 21 or on the Skytrain or whereever. Then their eyes are still working.

As far as the typical Issan look, no its not optimal, and its no secret that most drop dead beauties in Bangkok tend to have some kind of Thai / Chinese mixture.

Lets assume for purposes of discussion that some of these drop dead beauties could literally be propositioned for P4P sessions, the actual women one might notice when going about one's business in Bangkok.

I guarantee you, next some of the long term Bangkok resident or high-frequency visitor types would be in here bitching: "didn't notice initially, but turns out her tits are fake, big turnoff" "poor performance," "mouth too small for good DFK","not experienced enough" ("wouldn't put her nose up my ass") 'refused to rim me" "wouldn't let me fuck her in the ass despite me generously lubing her up" "too shy" "got all clingy","no PSE at all," "after only an hour pumping her hard, said she was sore, obviously an attitude problem "starfish"."too tired for round 3" "wouldn't deep throat" "no swallow" "not so hot under different light"

Or as Aldous Huxley once said "most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted.”

[QUOTE=Wolvenvacht;1547307]Prostitution is not illegal in Thailand. Pimping is illegal; being a nuisance is illegal; exploiting a brothel is illegal.[/QUOTE]Prostitution is in fact illegal in Thailand, but the law as written also includes clauses about the necessity of creating a public nuisance or other terms making the law somewhat ambiguous

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1547267]True! Sing has some great looking gals. But some interesting attitudes.[/QUOTE]Yep, some absolute stunners in Singapore. I personally think Hong Kong has better looking girls than Sing, but only just. As for attitude, it's the 5 C's that Sing girls are after, Car, Condo, Cash and Credit Cards. A lot of girls won't go out with older foreigners either, they don't want to be seen as "that" type of girl.

Plenty of hookers from everywhere in Singapore for any budget, pity it's just so expensive to live there.

Its OK now with plenty of hotties in Rainbow 4 and elsewhere in Bangkok, but eventually one will need a "game" to entice Bangkok P4P hotties. This will give you some idea what will eventually be required.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtshlipvyIc

[QUOTE=Goatscrot; 1547266]I am really not attracted to the Isaan look at all. High cheek bones and square jaw lines just don't do it for me and haven't for a long time. What attracts me? Easiest to say is the Thai TV stars. Girls are amazing. It is really interesting how one's taste change.

Frustrating thing is most of those gals are very much like Western women. They want dudes their age with money. That is true of BKK, NYC, or where ever. If one is loaded, one gets great looking girls.[/QUOTE]The problem with most TV stars is that they look too close to western, with many mixed Thai-western girls. Mostly I don't like this, there are exceptions like old stars: Sonya, Marsha, Benz, Teya, etc. I generally like a real Thai look. So the majority of leading ladies are too western looking for me. Some of us want a more exotic look.

Big square faces do not attract me. Those are actually far more common in the north of Thailand, e. G. Chiang Mai, rather than Isaan. On the other hand some Chiang Rai girls are very good looking with smaller faces (and no square jaw). There are plenty of Isaan girls with no broad nose, no square jaw, and a non-broad face. I don't particularly go for round faced nor Chinese like looks generally either. When I look at Chinese tourists in Thailand, I would say 99% are very plain looking. Hard to find a pretty one. In the company I work for in Europe, the Asian girls are mostly very pretty. Not a representative selection at all. I suspect the hiring selection criteria is not just for brains.

Thais and Japanese are liking girls to look as western as possible and blinded by skin colour. I want them not to look western at all, natural, and skin colour can be light or dark, it doesn't matter.

The problem is beautiful girls, 9-10's, Thai or otherwise, is that they don't really need to try hard, at anything. They don't have to actively seek out a guy, nor want to please them (unless they are in love) as they know that guy is not their only option. They can pick and choose from the plethora of rich dudes available and most will be little puppy dogs waiting on hand and foot to these girls.

Now, there are beauties that are in the industry who are seasoned and provide all the services a guy may desire. Rimming, anal, BBBJ, etc, and they come at a price. These are professionals. For the non-pro hi-so girl out and about town there is no incentive at providing such services even though she is enticed by P4P to make some money. They deem that being with them, seeing them naked is reward enough.

Now its all about your environment. I have been very active in the NYC P4P scene and there are drop dead gorgeous girls who will do what you want, when you want it, if you have the deep pockets and can accomodate them at the Plaza Hotel. Just take a drive down to Jersey and you will find the same hot girls, who will do everything you want at a fraction of the price for longer at a Best Western Motel. Environment plays a factor. Thai culture is very judgmental and a lot of hi-so thai girls will not want to be seen with foreigners. Even though they may be P4P they mingle within their own circles. It comes with the territory.

I have a lot of Thai girl friends who used to work with me in NYC. Girls who dated black, white, asian, indian, latino, etc. When I meet them in Thailand they explain to me that no moderately successful Thai man would see her a GF / Wife potential if they have dated / slept around with other guys of other races and even though they have that freedom outside of Thailand, they are stuck in the cultural warp that so controls their life in their countries.

So these hotties all over Bangkok will be fair game and a easy lay if they were plucked out of that environment. I don't think we should read it as an commentary on how they view foreigners. This is apparent in every country with deep cultural traditions that has dictated societal norms for centuries and more.

I would much rather get the sexual experience of my life then be stuck with a hi-so hottie who is a door-knob in bed. This is only good for impressing your friends, business partners and being the envy around town. It ain't going to matter much once they burn a hole in your pocket and you have nothing but unused condoms to show for it.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1547215]Unattractive bar girl (3k to 4k per day) with bar taking 1 to 1. 5 k of that for barfine. Cook and do laundry.

Avg Issan bar girl (4 to 5k a day) cook only, fast food meals Ok, but you pay everything.

Cute bar girl (8k to 15k per day) cook rice and Thai dish only, but only at night.

Avg Go Go Girl (8k to 12k / day) microwave warmup, but no laundry, Tuk Tuk Ok.

Cute Go Go Girl (10 to 18k per day) no cooking, make you cook for her, Skytrain OK, but no Tuk Tuk.

Go Go Stunner (20 to 30k / day) no cooking, eat out all the time. 4 star hotel min

Go Go Superstar (one week min. 250k flat charge for entire week) 5 star hotel min.

G club girl 15k to 20k / day 5 star hotel min, cab Ok, only nice restaurants like " Took Lae Dee" at Foodlander or better

Escort agency girls 12 to 35k / day. 4 star min, fly coach to other asian destinations OK, Tuk Tuk Ok if girl approves.

G Club stunner 20 to 40k per day. 5 star hotel min, limosine service only, no Tuk Tuk, regular cabs only when limo service not available

(off market) model agency girls (50 to 100k / day) 5 star hotel only, only eat at top restaurants, travel other asian destinations only first class or private jet, shop at Siam once a week 50k budget, gaming allowance 25k / day if in Macau.

Terminal 21 "special girls" (talk to doorman guy in white uniform about "nice weather", then salute him (in that order) and if he salutes back, he knows what you want) 100k / day flat rate, no other charges, Skytrain OK, but no subway unless journey begin at Terminal 21 Sukhumvit stop.[/QUOTE]Thank you mate.

This was some damn good help.

This is so detailed that I am worried that you just pulled my leg. ^_^

[QUOTE=Western787;1547215]Terminal 21 "special girls" (talk to doorman guy in white uniform about "nice weather", then salute him (in that order) and if he salutes back, he knows what you want) 100k/day flat rate, no other charges, Skytrain OK, but no subway unless journey begin at Terminal 21 Sukhumvit stop.[/QUOTE]Don't give away the secrets, man.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot; 1547266]A friend's GF once remarked,"When farang first come to Thailand, their eyes don't work." I think that is true for most of us. It has been for me.

Frustrating thing is most of those gals are very much like Western women. They want dudes their age with money. That is true of BKK, NYC, or where ever. If one is loaded, one gets great looking girls.[/QUOTE]Yes, the eye part is very true. I still like a slightly "tanned" girl, probably because I'm so darn white. But the dark, heavily Isaan, look no longer does it for me, either. Chinese features with Thai eyes is a very, very nice look, IMHO.

Maybe the young girls are more like Western women, I'm not sure. That is a depressing thought. I don't really care for 18. 25 year olds because they are such twits. Nice looking, fun to joke around with, but twits nonetheless. I've found that an older guy can have a very nice GF much younger than one he'd be able to have in farangland. In my experience, girls from 10 to 15 years my junior had absolutely no qualms about hanging out with me. Try that in LA or NYC. But, much beyond 15 years and it's all P4P. There is nothing in common within granddaughter / grandfather relationships.

Now money, of course, changes the dynamic completely. It always has and always will. But, IMO, arm candy and trophy wives have far more in common with the bar girls of Patpong than middle class women.

[QUOTE=Western787;1547310]Prostitution is in fact illegal in Thailand, but the law as written also includes clauses about the necessity of creating a public nuisance or other terms making the law somewhat ambiguous[/QUOTE]That law is not at all ambiguous, at least not more than most of the laws in any country. Prostitution as such is not a crime in Thailand. It is actually not much different than similar laws in most of civilized countries.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1547266]What attracts me? Easiest to say is the Thai TV stars. Girls are amazing. It is really interesting how one's taste change.[/QUOTE]In regard to the premise that "Farangs who actually move to Bangkok often tend to get spoiled in regard to women". I submit the above statement as relevant evidence in support of that contention.

Anyone that has a sweet tooth and lives in a candy store (even a candy store not as good as it used to be) and says they are not getting spoiled, is not dealing with reality.

[QUOTE=Western787; 1547215]Unattractive bar girl (3k to 4k per day) with bar taking 1 to 1. 5 k of that for barfine. Cook and do laundry.

Terminal 21 "special girls" (talk to doorman guy in white uniform about "nice weather", then salute him (in that order) and if he salutes back, he knows what you want) 100k / day flat rate, no other charges, Skytrain OK, but no subway unless journey begin at Terminal 21 Sukhumvit stop.[/QUOTE]WTF? Where do you find all those prices?

Bottom end, if you will, are women in Thai-oriented areas like Khlong Lot and Yaowarat, going ST for 300-600 baht (some look OK but service is poor). If anybody's paying 3k per day for a fugly bargirl, they're being taken for a ride.

As fro the 100k / day girls at Terminal 21, I call bullshit. That's a *yearly* salary for most Thais. I'm sure you'll have no trouble finding a girl who'll take your 100k and a pimp who will procure, but doubt there's any sort of organized market in that price range (with easy access for a rich Farang tourist).

[QUOTE=Western787;1547529]Anyone that has a sweet tooth and lives in a candy store (even a candy store not as good as it used to be) and says they are not getting spoiled, is not dealing with reality.[/QUOTE]Yes it is and it is a big candystore in almost all aspects (regular girls middle class to hi so and the girls frequents the FL scene). It was a nice store 8 years back but is better today from my observations. A few guys here write as it is all black and white. I find the lines to be infact very blurred. I would like to droddle through some of the latest posts in general.

Some state that a hi so thai girl from traditions / culture never can be seen with a fairly successful Thai man. Well, the girls I frequent in this level (hi so) would not have a Thai man whatsoever as they find them as unfaithful and the worst kind of men there is. Some despite the old Thai culture and traditions holding Thailand back as a country as they don't see any modernism to it as well. They come from families where maby their parent generation are more traditionaly directed but over the years their children (aka, lets call them "my girls") have become more and more internationalized, studied abroad, travelled abroad, building themself a net of contacts globaly but still choose to live and work in Bangkok (commercialy or private) or atleast work out from BKK. First I believe there probably are a proper definition of what is a "hi so" girl (I promise I did not bother to google it). To some maby it is just upper middle class, hehe. I remember I read somewhere not long ago that someone viewed FL place Thermae as a Hi So place, hehe. To me a hi so girl is well educated, well connected to the upper parts of a city or community. This will often be moviestars, famous musicians, models, CDO`s, politicians etc. She has her own money (atleast 100K per month) , car, house and probably are from some sort of rich background (don't have to be royal or part of the families owning Chang, Red Bull or Shinga) and she frequent typical hi so places (and they are far from Thermae both in distance and quality). Probably a lot I forgot but this is how I view a hi so girl.

I meet these girls (not all at one time ofcourse) through friends I have in the fashionindustry and aviationindustry. These industries are known to throw quite some parties (fashionindustry in particular). Here it is very likely, if you are a nice decent guy (since I also frequent the FL scene quite a lot I know I am not but they don't know) , you will eventually meet some stunners. They are not reluctant showing themself out in the open with me (a foreign guy) , be it in Thong Lor bars or walking hand in hand at the Siam Paragorn (hand in hand not my favorite). Lets say these girls are pretty (atleast I think so and I have a fairly good taste and I like thaichineese or others of more paleskinned thai origin of some sort, I also like the girls from mixed thai / western background) and they know it.

Despite other posters here most of them are tigers in bed. So saying that a beautiful girl will not perform decent in bedactivies is not how I view it. If I could have them only by game I don't know as they are, like most attractive hi so girls globaly, of high maintainance costs (as in decent wine and dine, nice gifts and expensive trips). My MO I learned from my dad and he convinced me into believing "that beautiful girls are not so popular as we would like to think and many guys are infact afraid to even talk to them". It has worked out well for me and mostly I hit them up by telling them a silly joke (a Monthy Python one) as an icebreaker. Beeing a funny, friendly and a partyguy are all it takes.

These girls have busy careers and are, as far as I know, pretty happy living in their secured residencial areas by themself (aka as singles) in Bangkok and don't want to be a part of this "have to get married and have child soon" stucked up old habit from some earlier years. They are without exceptions citygirls, modern and vibrant, speaks english better or as good as any person not beeing borned / raised in a native englishspeaking country.

I don't mean to argue what earlier posters have posted as they probably write from how they view it. Beeing an expat in Thailand for many years will give you your story. The story will depend a great deal on what kind of people you hang out with and what kind of environment you are beeing a part of. I am a frequent BKK visitor myself (100+ times in approx 8 years) and my story are different. And even if I am not (and never will be) a resident of Thailand I have a pretty good feel of the vibe going on (atleast the latest 8 years). I pretty much exclude FL girls writing this post, hell they can even have the Isaan look without me pulling back, but I have had a decent good fleet of pretty and well educated girls over the years and they have told me about their lifes and how they view BKK of today. Ofcourse I have absorbed some of this and mixed it into my own observations to look for mismatch.

My 4 girls who I have contact with today are from 22 to 31 years. I am 41. Yes they would probably want some on their own age (atleast the two youngest ones) but as long as I am good enough and like to meet me on a very unregular basis I am happy. By beeing nice I even had other regulars recommended me to some of th friends as themself ran into more serious relationships with western guys ofcourse. In all fairness I will never be able to give them a true relationship after all as I am allready taken (poor GF back home).

Only my 5 cents into the debate.