Stupid Shit in Kyiv

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2999537]A better analogy would be memorials to Confederate War Heroes. In 1861, southern states in the USA seceded from the country and formed a new government, called the Confederacy. One of its aims was to maintain the institution of slavery. Many cities in the South have or had statues and the like, honoring men who served in the Confederate army.

There used to be a school in a city where I lived, called Robert E. Lee Elementary School. Robert E. Lee was the top general of the Confederacy. There was a movement to change the name of the school. I thought that was a great idea. How would you like to be a black kid, attending a school named for someone who fought to keep your ancestors enslaved? Well, there were a lot of people in the community who disagreed. Two of them ostracized me because I wouldn't sign their petition to keep the name.

But is that sufficient reason for a war? Admittedly I'm a pacifist, but I don't think so. NATO's continued encroachment to the east and the borderline persecution of some Russian speakers in eastern Ukraine would be much stronger arguments.

As to Bucha, regardless of whether it was real, shit happens. It happened to Vietnamese at the hands of Americans at My Lai. Americans gunned down women, children and old men. They raped some of the women first. The alleged death tolls at Bucha and My Lai were similar.

That doesn't change the fact that not that many civilians have died in the Ukraine War. The United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights puts the total 12,910 through March 31,2025 for Ukraine. The UN put the total at 45,000 Palestinians in Gaza as of December, 2024. There were about 18 X more people in Ukraine than there were in Gaza before the wars. And the war in Ukraine has been going on longer. The UN believes their estimates are low, for both places. But still it's hard for me to believe that the Russian leadership is targeting civilians, in Bucha or elsewhere. By the numbers, Israel obviously has a lot less respect for the lives of noncombatants than Russia.[/QUOTE]Let me tell you what my close friend was told by his ethnic russian relatives living in one of the occupied Ukrainian territories; Russians were not persecuted by Ukraine, but are afraid of putin, Russia and their unprovoked violence against Ukraine and civilians residing in Ukraine.

They do not want to be a part of putins dictatorship, and today they see no chance of ever being a part of a democratic russia in a humane way.

Let me be extremely clear, these are people that lived safely in a democratic Ukraine but now is forced to live in a war zone and they never know what will be putin's next genocidal move. Putin do not protect them, he puts them in danger. In fact, he has killed several ethnic russian Ukrainians.

[QUOTE=Questner;2999331]One of the opinions is that the US wants to save face by walking away. The Ukrainian project that benefited the MIC and LNG and harmed absolutely everybody and everything else is now failing and its time to fold. Every sane stakeholder would prefer to end the hostilities. Trump is right when he says this war would not have happened should he be the POTUS. Trump would never have armed, financed and charged the AFU into the conflict. Just recently Ukraine failed to reach a deal with holders of $2. 6 billion in debt during talks in Washington this week. If no agreement is reached, the country faces default. Without financial aid and military support from the US Ukraine will eventually face a collapse even if it takes 1 to 2 years.[/QUOTE]You may very well be correct in saying that the United States just wants to save face and find an excuse to walk away. Trump has already said a few times that this is Biden's war, meaning he started it, and yes that is correct. But now it's Trump's war and he has to figure out what he is going to do.

I am on record saying here that this will be decided on the battlefield, with the Russians taking much more territory than what they currently hold and a collapse of the AFU. If Trump makes good on his vow to walk away and that means cutting off funding to Ukraine (that would make sense), then that is a very likely outcome.

The Russians will win an ugly victory and Ukraine will lose more territory. I would be happy if both sides accept the deal currently offered by Trump but I don't it's going to happen. I really hope I'm wrong. For Ukraine's sake.

[QUOTE=BloodRed;2999633]...I am on record saying here that this will be decided on the battlefield, with the Russians taking much more territory than what they currently hold and a collapse of the AFU. If Trump makes good on his vow to walk away and that means cutting off funding to Ukraine (that would make sense), then that is a very likely outcome...[/QUOTE]I am on record saying Putin will be killed by his generals, the Russian army will collapse and rapidly abandon Crimea.

[QUOTE=BloodRed;2999633]...I would be happy if both sides accept the deal currently offered by Trump but I don't it's going to happen. I really hope I'm wrong. For Ukraine's sake.[/QUOTE]There are a lot of other people who hope the for the same, on both sides. Especially the grunts on the front lines:

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk8XJNn9Xtg[/URL]

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2999590]Let me tell you what my close friend was told by his ethnic russian relatives living in one of the occupied Ukrainian territories; Russians were not persecuted by Ukraine, but are afraid of putin, Russia and their unprovoked violence against Ukraine and civilians residing in Ukraine.

They do not want to be a part of putins dictatorship, and today they see no chance of ever being a part of a democratic russia in a humane way.

Let me be extremely clear, these are people that lived safely in a democratic Ukraine but now is forced to live in a war zone and they never know what will be putin's next genocidal move. Putin do not protect them, he puts them in danger. In fact, he has killed several ethnic russian Ukrainians.[/QUOTE]And this is what my colleague wrote to me in an email in July of last year.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2927745]This is a message I got today from a western business associate who worked in the FSU for a couple of decades. It's about one of his business partners who was originally from the Donbas. I've omitted places and names so I don't "out" myself or him.

*****s extended family, Aunts and Uncles and cousins live in (Name of city and area in Donbas) under the jack-boot of the Ukrainian Army and last time I heard feed-back about six months ago, they were fearing for their lives daily. Skin-heads patrol the streets and pistol whip any dissenters. They are afraid to speak Russian as they have a mixed Russian and Cossack heritage. *****s aunt and uncles and cousins have been living in their respective basements for a few years now, one cousin died of a heart attack last year (only 30 years old). ***** was devastated, it's all very sad for Ukrainians to be thrust into a major war with one of the most effective yet brutal armies historically and the west pouring weapons in, to 'save Ukraine just increases the misery of the people who can't do much as they don't live in a democracy as we understand it.[/QUOTE]

Reading is fundamental ShooBree.

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2999587]Why do you pretend that Volodymyr Zelensky, a Jewish Ukrainian, is a nazi?[/QUOTE]Please note below.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2998620]...And before one of our fellow board members jumps down my throat, I'm not calling Zelensky a Nazi.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2999587]I'm glad however that you are finally out of the closet as a pro-Putin, pro-Russia, pro-disinformation and pro-war troll.

There are more nazis in russia than in Ukraine, it's a fact. European neo-nazist even travelled to russia for training camps together with the russian nazis.

So no, there's no basis for your shameless lies.[/QUOTE]Perhaps you'd like to point towards those shameless lies. I said denazification is NOT sufficient reason for a war. I can see why a monument to a leader of an organization that exterminated Polish and Jewish civilians in large numbers would grate on people though.

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2999587]What excuse are you going to give for putins war against Georgia? Are the Georgians also nazis?

You're running out of excuses, but your credibility is already long gone.

Putin is a war criminal that's actively targeting Ukrainian civilians and children. There's no way any human can defend that, but you defend it.

You have zero regard for Ukrainian lives.[/QUOTE]I have a much higher regard for Ukrainian lives than you do. My constant message in this forum for the last couple of years has been that this is a stupid war and the powers involved need to end it, so people can stop dying.

Your claim that Putin's targeting Ukrainian civilians and children is bull shit. The numbers don't bear you out. Please see my comparison between civilian deaths in Ukraine and Gaza below in a reply to Questner, post #4271. Roosevelt and Churchill did target civilians and children in large numbers, when they carpet bombed Germany and Japan. There were single days when they killed more civilians than Russians killed during the entire Ukrainian war.

If you're going to adopt a very loose definition of "targeting", then maybe you have a case. But then wasn't George W. Bush orders of magnitude worse than Putin? Over 4 million people have died in post 9/11 wars by one estimate.

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2999587]You...have murdered at least 60'000 Ukrainians.[/QUOTE]Get a grip ShoBree. You're not logical when you're hysterical. You might want to look at some of Paulie's posts on logic in this thread, although you'll have to wade through a ton of neoconservative clap trap to find them. I'm a poster on a hooker board. I'm not the Almighty. And like I said.

[QUOTE=Tiny12;2999537]...I'm a pacifist...[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=JohnClayton;2999701]I am on record saying Putin will be killed by his generals, the Russian army will collapse and rapidly abandon Crimea.[/QUOTE]OK, I'll go on record too, saying the clouds are made of cotton candy and the sky is a sea of dreams.

[QUOTE=JohnClayton;2999701]I am on record saying Putin will be killed by his generals, the Russian army will collapse and rapidly abandon Crimea.[/QUOTE]It will be best for Russians and our world, if we could be gotten rid of criminal dictator Putin. Unfortunately, stupid Trump wants to give him Donbass and Crimea, forgotting what he said in 2018 . Just senile and now robber.

[QUOTE=JohnClayton;2999701]I am on record saying Putin will be killed by his generals, the Russian army will collapse and rapidly abandon Crimea.[/QUOTE]Well, you're a dumbass, so you going on record doesn't mean jack shit.

Regards,

Blood Red.

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7ylnQBRa28[/URL]

Vladimir Putin was informed about the defeat of the Ukrainian Armed Forces: Kursk region is liberated, the army is moving to Sumy.

The last village in Kursk Oblast has been cleared of Ukrainian soldiers, the Ukrainian operation has finally failed.

The fighting on Russian soil cost the AFU dearly. Kyiv brought in 60,000 men. They were completely ground to pieces in six months. The Ukrainian Armed Forces suffered no less heavy losses in military equipment.

76 thousand people. Losses killed and wounded. 7,700 units of military equipment were destroyed, including 412 tanks, 340 infantry fighting vehicles, 314 armored personnel carriers, 2,300 other armored combat vehicles.

- I would like to separately note the participation of the DPRK military personnel in the liberation of the border areas of the Kursk region. Soldiers and officers of the Korean People's Army, performing combat missions shoulder to shoulder with Russian military personnel, demonstrated high professionalism, showed fortitude, courage and heroism in battle, - The Chief of the General Staff.

Gerasimov reported. At the same time, the general emphasized that the participation of Korean soldiers is fully consistent with international standards. After all, the countries have a Comprehensive Strategic Partnership Treaty, which entered into force on December 4, 2024.

So, we have expected the above results around end of December or early January but it took longer.

[QUOTE=Questner;2999751]Vladimir Putin was informed about the defeat of the Ukrainian Armed Forces: Kursk region is liberated, the army is moving to Sumy...[/QUOTE]Ukraine says they're still there...

[QUOTE=JohnClayton;2999785]Ukraine says they're still there...[/QUOTE]And you believe it. Dumbass. LOL.

If you knew absolutely anything about the conflict and have followed it over the years, you'd know that Ukraine never admits a loss until a long time afterwards. Like with Bakhmut, Avdivka, etc etc. They admitted they were driven out months later.

[QUOTE=Questner;2999751]Vladimir Putin was informed about the defeat of the Ukrainian Armed Forces: Kursk region is liberated, the army is moving to Sumy.

The last village in Kursk Oblast has been cleared of Ukrainian soldiers, the Ukrainian operation has finally failed.

The fighting on Russian soil cost the AFU dearly. Kyiv brought in 60,000 men. They were completely ground to pieces in six months. The Ukrainian Armed Forces suffered no less heavy losses in military equipment.

76 thousand people. Losses killed and wounded. 7,700 units of military equipment were destroyed, including 412 tanks, 340 infantry fighting vehicles, 314 armored personnel carriers, 2,300 other armored combat vehicles.

- I would like to separately note the participation of the DPRK military personnel in the liberation of the border areas of the Kursk region. Soldiers and officers of the Korean People's Army, performing combat missions shoulder to shoulder with Russian military personnel, demonstrated high professionalism, showed fortitude, courage and heroism in battle, - The Chief of the General Staff.

Gerasimov reported. At the same time, the general emphasized that the participation of Korean soldiers is fully consistent with international standards. After all, the countries have a Comprehensive Strategic Partnership Treaty, which entered into force on December 4, 2024.

So, we have expected the above results around end of December or early January but it took longer.[/QUOTE]Another failure for the Nazi Kiev regime. I said at the start that this was a huge blunder and only for optics. And Zelensky was going to use this as a bargaining chip, that sure turned out nicely. Now he wants to send 18 year olds to the front line. What an enormous tragedy.

While we're here talking about Kyiv. Which do you think is worse?

Being in an actual prison, like in Bangkok's Bang Kwang. Or the metaphorical prison of being trapped in a shitty job in the States?

One is literally prison, but it's in beautiful Thailand. While the other is not actually prison, but sure as hell feels like it. Especially with the asshole co-workers. Life is tough dudes. Fucking tough *sigh*.