Monterrey

I believe there is more to it than just finding a GFE. I believe we come to know and care for those girls to the point we sincerely love them and treat with the utmost respect that they never see with any other men, be it local or visitors. I know girls who cling on to us hoping to establish an ongoing relationship and to claim she has a boyfriend. she would be sincerely in love, not in the full sense, but to a point where she singles one man out of the crowd and pay special attention in addition to special treatment.

It is not us. It is the girls who chose to do so. We just go along for the ride and enjoy it thinking we succeeded in finding a one-in-a-million.

they brag about one of us being their boyfriend. Overlooking the age and the distance factor. Giving us special treatment and spending more time with us, sometimes without money, and getting us involved in their life outside of the clubs.

So what do you call that? GFE? No. It is their hunger for a man to call their own. some of us, like USB, me, Carlos and Mr."L" treat them just like we would treat a guest. Full respect and genuine caring. Something they are not used to and will not usually get from young studs who are there for a quickie.

Then the guilt part sets in. Just knowing we are there for the screw while they expect a possible long-term relationship. Thus an additional heart break and crumbled dreams. All adds up to a final ice queen die hard prostitute. No faith in men and no future.

One last note, I see the shower before sex is a must. Add to it that you shower them yourself ... and now use your imagination :-)

Just my 3 cents. My 2 cents are free.

Wasted - days and Wasted nights.




[QUOTE=UnospongeBob]My experience with the girls I take on salida in Monterrey is that they are almost always very well groomed, and quite clean. Most girls will shower after sex, and sometimes they will shower before sex, but not often.
.[/QUOTE]

When it transcends GFE, and it morphs into something more than the typical GFE, it is because they have chosen us. It doesn't usually happen for very long. Usually, the girls come back to earth pretty fast when that happens. I think that the enhanced GFE has happened to me maybe three times in Monterrey over five years, and usually it only lasts a couple of months.

I must elaborate on your comment that "it is not us." In a sense it IS "us." Perhaps it's not us directly, but it's the result of the sociological effects of Mexican culture on the typical lower class bar girl. I've found that sexually and romantically, the bar girls are especially captivated by us because we are different. To a certain extent, all women seem to be especially vulnerable to men that are different than their prevailing culture. I think our being from another culture, austensibly wealthy by comparison, and well educated by comparison, etc...has a profound effect on our success. It must be some kind of instinctual female aphrodisiac worldwide. Anyway...

If we treat them well, we stand a very good chance of receiving consistently passionate, heartfelt GFE's. I have had many more than just three normal GFE's in Monterrey over five years, and most of it I attribute to my point of origin, and to the fact that I treat them differently than they are use to.

I treat them like they are my responsibility when they are with me. That is not the way most of the girls are use to being treated. The difference is, we make love to them, we care for them, we think of them when we are not with them, we treat them like regular girlfriends, cherish them, etc...we don't just fuck them...there is a huge difference between using them in a caring and concerned way, and using them as slabs of meat to the slaughter.

But, if we actually fulfill their stereotypical "Gringo in Shining Armor" fantasy, then it seems like it's not uncommon for us to enjoy an elevated treatment from them occassionally, treatment that surpasses even the normal GFE.

As you said, it is love in a sense, not in the typical sense, but almost like we are the actual embodiment of their romantic and sexual stereotypical fantasies, which I believe causes them to give more fully of themselves in order to fully experience their anticipated "fantasy man." We get a fuller measure of their sincere attention, not just sexually, but emotionally as well when we get their "enhanced" brand of GFE treatment.

In the case of my "G" girl, I am enjoying that circumstance now. But, by now, she is resolved to the reality that "legitimacy" can never really be achieved. I have explained that we can part company if the arrangement bothers her, or if she feels that I am being insincere with her. Or, we can enjoy our times together for as long as both of us want it. It has been entirely up to her. So far, she has decided to enjoy our time together rather than not, and I stick with her because she provides the enhanced GFE that is otherwise more illusive than the typical run of the mill GFE.

I can only assume that she is still sufficiently captivated, not only by the stereotypical romantic Gringo angle, but also by the support mechanism, the money, all be it relatively and comparatively modest amounts of money in comparison to the going rate for pay for play in Monterrey. So far, this arrangement has been very satisfying. But, we both know that it will come to an end eventually. It has to...it should...and it will...someday.

[QUOTE=Wastedgman]I believe there is more to it than just finding a GFE. I believe we come to know and care for those girls to the point we sincerely love them and treat with the utmost respect that they never see with any other men, be it local or visitors. I know girls who cling on to us hoping to establish an ongoing relationship and to claim she has a boyfriend. she would be sincerely in love, not in the full sense, but to a point where she singles one man out of the crowd and pay special attention in addition to special treatment.

It is not us. It is the girls who chose to do so. We just go along for the ride and enjoy it thinking we succeeded in finding a one-in-a-million.

they brag about one of us being their boyfriend. Overlooking the age and the distance factor. Giving us special treatment and spending more time with us, sometimes without money, and getting us involved in their life outside of the clubs.

So what do you call that? GFE? No. It is their hunger for a man to call their own. some of us, like USB, me, Carlos and Mr."L" treat them just like we would treat a guest. Full respect and genuine caring. Something they are not used to and will not usually get from young studs who are there for a quickie.

Then the guilt part sets in. Just knowing we are there for the screw while they expect a possible long-term relationship. Thus an additional heart break and crumbled dreams. All adds up to a final ice queen die hard prostitute. No faith in men and no future.

One last note, I see the shower before sex is a must. Add to it that you shower them yourself ... and now use your imagination :-)

Just my 3 cents. My 2 cents are free.

Wasted - days and Wasted nights.[/QUOTE]

Sometimes, with respect to words like love, affection, caring, need, greed, infatuation, commitment, etc...there is so much lost in the literary definition versus the true intrinsic meaning of the words themselves that sometimes the actual concepts get lost, or misconstrued, or misunderstood. The semantics of our wording sometimes becomes the "devil in the details."

Anyway, the chicas are exactly as you describe, some exhibiting their form of "love" with varying degrees of intensity, passion, affection, etc...But, I agree with you completely that the bottom line is that few of them would hang around without the anticipated monetary enducements.

The fact is, most marriages, and/or conventional long term relationships, are not so different really. I believe there really is a thin line that separates the two. The word "commitment" is an important element in the discussion when differentiating what constitutes a legitimate relationship versus a "a little fun" with some emotional nurturing thrown into the mix.

There is no committment with these chicas, and that's the missing element in a comparison. If the committment were in place, the dynamic changes signficantly because the basic underlying motivation for all women is "Commitment," and to be taken care of. As you mentioned, if a girl can get the committment, then she potentially has the monetary support, the emotional support, and the physical nurturing that completes the circle of "Love."

But, sometimes, if we're lucky, there is the occassional girl that might actually "need" something more than just the money, something within the emotional realm. Those are the GFE's that are extraordinary, and the ones where the act is not so much an act perpetrated by them in the moment for motivational effect upon our potential to be financially generous, but born out of a combination of things, actual emotional need with subconscious, or fully conscious, monetary overtones. Those are the best GFEs of all.


[QUOTE=Mill Just]The boxer Mike Tyson once said "Love? How can anyone love me when I have so much?" Now, aside from the fact that he is a lousy person overall, he did speak the truth with that statement- at least as it pertains to bar girls and "working" chicas in general.

We are certainly an oddity for the girls, a curiosity. We look different, act different and have a completely different outlook on how they are seen. The typical Mexican sees them as "trash." We don't. We are actually quite appreciative of them because we know how crappy the P4P scene in the states is.

But love? Doubtful. 99% of the chicas that choose to give us GFE see us as a ticket out, either via romantic relationship or through a series of favors that we can provide for them. Many Mexicans of the lower class seek to be friendly with us gringos because we can be a huge asset for them. We are a lifeline to another world, a world where there is more money, more opportunity, better quality products, etc...

I used to feel pangs of guilt for feeding into the industry that is "exploiting" the girls that I care for. I don't anymore because, through years of practical experience, I have found out that they are trying to use us a lot more than we try to use them. I don't mean to sound negative because I am absolutely in love with most of Mexico. However, you must be realistic in the fact that what Mike Tyson said was right. We have so much in comparison to many working girls. How can someone really love us when we have what they so desperately need; and how can we really love them when we know this? It's like if we were standing in the desert with a cup of cold water and a woman, dying of thirst, approached us. She would be looking at the cup of water and not at us, no matter how charming and respectful we are. We could see how much relief we are giving her and how happy she is while drinking the water, but we can't mistake that for love or even affection. I guess what I'm trying to say is that despite our best efforts, it is only natural for the chicas to see us more in terms of what we can give them and not how we are. And, if we are great people, all the better- just the goal for them is to see what they can get from us.

This is not to say that, over time, one can't make a decent relationship with a working chica. it just means that it would be very difficult and you could never be sure if she was with you for you or for what you can provide. It's the reason so many famous, rich celebrities choose to be with prostitutes when they can go to any club and bed practically any girl they want. It's because these guys know that they are the "prize" and love is put way on the back burner.

Take these working chicas in Mexico and offer them nothing other than your respect and charm, and see how long they'll stay. Take away the money, the gifts, the food and the future possibilty of benefit and 99.9% of these chicas would be gone in sec. That's not love.

So, have fun, and be cool. Respect all, but trust none.

Mill

[size=-2][b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please [url=http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?]Click Here[/url] for more information.[/blue][/size][/QUOTE]

I don't agree with this part of MJ assesment:

"The typical Mexican sees them as "trash." We don't. We are actually quite appreciative of them because we know how crappy the P4P scene in the states is."

What is this?

MJ might mean it, but in his singular self, but it is not absolute. What he says is not the universal rule... on the contrary, it is Americans that see the girls as total trash.... come on, please I am part of many forums and I have read the posts.
I have read expert mongers, frequent travelers, and newbies call the girls "putas" time and time again, in all the full sense of the ofending word.
BUT on the contrary, WOW!!!!, they refere to the girls on SEA, as godesses.
Just because they are cheaper and because they get a better GFE from them.

No no no no... you guys are trying to interpret wrongly a natural order of things here in Mexico and I have told people like Wasted and USB and many others that the girls working as prostitutes are low on the scale of our society.
Contrary to the hypocritical socity in the USA, where prostitution can not exist, but tolerates all other excesses like drug consumption, my society at least see prostitutes as a needed evil, one that will allow them to try to get out of the pit where they are stuck.
We are using them????
We are PAYING them, THEY are using US, God you are so blind that you don't get the fundamentals of prostitution.... if you don't want to feel offended, don't come down here any more or you'll hurt your new-found sensibilities.
You have fallen into the biggest trap of prostitution... you don't see it?

I accept MJ's assesment cause he live in Morelia and he is now a local boy that has been absorbed by the night life. He understand totally now what is going on.

But that part that only Americans are the know-it-all in girls and prostitution in Mexico is really out of line.

Am going to confess that this is the first time Iam discontent with my friends Wasted and USB.

You are thinking on the line of soul searching and redemption, personal and third parties, when the subject here is total and unadulterated sex....






[QUOTE=Wastedgman]Beautiful observation and damm correct.

I recommended your post to the whatchamacallit thingy, reports of distinction. You translated the scene much better than I did. But the addition of the fact that they are using us more than we are using them is something I did not think about when it came the selected few girls that I see in them clubs.

I recall I was taking out money from an ATM once to pay one of the girls when the stupid ATM showed my balance even though I selected not to "print a receipt". The girl managed to catch it and I watched her freeze for a split second. It was too late to hide it. She did not say a word and I wished she never saw it. Reminded me of when I was having a nice dinner at a nice San Francisco restaurant on Van Ness Ave by the opera house once when a homeless man on the sidewalk stopped and looked at me through the window while I was eating.

I'll leave the rest to your imagination.

Wasted[/QUOTE]

Carlos,

First, you always tell me that I elevate the status of the girls too much in my mind, that I mistakenly regard them as one would regard a "good girl." Many times you have instructed me to regard our MTY girls as the equivalent to our "trailer trash" in the US. Those have been your exact words. So, that is the first instance of your contradiction. They can not be "Trailer Trash" as I define the term, and not also be "Trash" within the Mexican definition as well.

You regularly tell me that if I am seen on the arm of one of these girls, that the Mexicans will know she is trash simply because of her ethnic appearance, and because she is on the arm of a Gringo, and especially if she is on the arm of mature (but young at heart :-)...) Gringo.

If the girls of MTY are the equivalent to our "Trailer Trash," then the character of a typical MTY bar girl, who is austensibly "trailer trash," is as I have always envisioned them being, of the same class as our trailer trash in the US. But, honestly, they are so much better than our trailer trash that I view the girls of MTY as being a notch above our trailer trash, maybe several notches...really, there is NO comparison.

"YOUR" trailer trash typically looks, and acts, a damn site better than "OUR" trailer trash. So, I fail to see where there is any ethnic prejudice in our comparisons. We are saying that the Mexican trailer trash is far superior to the US trailer trash, and it has nothing to do with money.

Upon making this distinction, and as a result of intimately knowing signficant numbers of "trailer trash" here in the US through my professional dealings, I can tell you that I appreciate your trailer trash a lot more than mine.

What is that old saying..."One man's trash is another man's treasure." Your Mexicanas are my treasure in comparison, verdad?

Carlos said,

"Contrary to the hypocritical socity in the USA, where prostitution can not exist, but tolerates all other excesses like drug consumption, my society at least see prostitutes as a needed evil, one that will allow them to try to get out of the pit where they are stuck."

Who is disagreeing with you? I wish we had NO PROSTITUTION LAWS here in the US. It would make things infinitely easier than to fly thousands of miles to MTY. Plus, our government spends a huge amount of law enforcement tax money, and police manpower, collaring prostitutes and their Johns. But, that is infinitely easier to accomplish for them than to actually fight violent criminals and the drug cartels. Frankly, I am surprised Prostitution is not legal here. There is big money in it, the clubs, the entertainment, the buffets....oh, whoa is me...whoa is me.

Carlos said,

"I have read expert mongers, frequent travelers, and newbies call the girls "putas" time and time again, in all the full sense of the ofending word.
BUT on the contrary, WOW!!!!, they refere to the girls on SEA, as godesses.
Just because they are cheaper and because they get a better GFE from them."

It may appear through the ineffectual use of "words," and misunderstood semantics, that the posters are referring to Mexican girls with a lesser degree of respect than they are referring to the girls of SEA. But, believe me, they are all thought of as putas.

It's just that the wording used is different because the actual words within those other languages are different. I can't tell you how many guys describe to me the girls of Asia as the equivalent to our "Hicks" here in the US, meaning that the girls are farm girls, uneducated, unsophisticated, lacking proper manners, etc..some of which is merely the vast cultural difference between East and West.

But, bottom line is, the guys think of all of them as "putas." There is no intended predjudice meant in their choice of words to describe what we all know they are. The curious thing is, there are many girls working those bars in MTY that do not consider themselves "putas," when by every definition, almost all males, from any culture, would classify them as such. That is a very strange and curious sociological aspect of Mexican sociology that I have yet to fully comprehend.

If the guys post more positively about the virtues of the SEA experience compared to the Mexico experience, it is purely based on superior performance criteria, both in performance and with respect to price, and not upon ethnically based prejudicial assessments. There is a significantly better experience to be had in Asia with respect to the average overall GFE per experience. That has nothing to do with an ethnic prejudice. It is merely a judgement based on performance.

Plus, many of those guys posting about Asia, get GFE with little or no discernable effort. It is like falling off a log there. In Mexico, GFE IS definiely available. I can attest to having experienced GFE in Mexico that compares in quality to that which is available in Asia. But, it requires work in Mexico, a LOT of work, and significantly more money in comparison.

Most of those guys posting about the virtues of Asia are doing so because they are getting superior performance without all the hassles and headaches associated with procuring the same level of GFE in Mexico. They are lazy mongers, and most of them do not put the effort into the Mexico experience, not enough effort to sufficiently experience what is possible in Mexico.

The effort required in Mexico to achieve GFE that is equal to the performance that's attainable in Asia, requires one to think of the girls beyond the "puta" description, and to treat them accordingly, an effort that is not necessary in Asia. So, IMHO, while the "puta" description might be an accurate one, and while the actual realization that she is a puta should not be discounted, the treatment of the girls in Mexico will NOT yield GFE until the monger modifies his treatment of a Mexican "puta" to the point of making her feel like a woman, and not a "puta." In my very humble opinion, that IS the secret to procuring GFE in Mexico...a lot of frickin' work.

Carlos says...

"Am going to confess that this is the first time I am discontent with my friends Wasted and USB."

I am always going to be a guy who "cares for" the girls with a measure of sentimentality. It is just my inner makeup. I can't help it. That doesn't mean, however, that I am going to be stupid about them either. I care for them, but like WastedG, only to a point. If they start to ask me for loans, their requests fall on deaf ears.

I am very cheap when the girls start to see me as an ATM machine. They better be delivering the goods my way, if money is going to change hands, or I will drop them, and fast...unless, I am enjoying their company, and then they might get a drink or two out of me, but no more.

My "G" girl knows what she has to do, and how she must act, and she knows just how much that might yield for her in regalos, money, etc...I prefer to believe that she is not acting, but I am totally aware that she probably is. But it doesn't really matter. I am only in Monterrey once a month, and the overall meaning doesn't have any kind of lasting significance with respect to my real life back home. But, my satisfaction, act or not, is the bottom line for her. She knows her compensation is not a lot either way, so if she delivers the goods with sincerity, then I am much happier. She knows I am a reliable ATM, but a relatively empty one :-) and she is ok with that. It makes the whole GFE thing much more enjoyable.

That is what keeps me coming back to her. She is more sincere than any bar girl I have met anywhere in the world, and she proves it to me with what she is willing to accept from me in regalos and money, and with respect to the time she spends with me in exchange for relatively modest amounts of both.

It occurs to me that maybe I should travel to the interior of Mexico, perhaps to Morelia, and patronize the austensibly poorer classes of girls there, versus the ridiculously wealthy bar girls of Monterrey? Hummmmmm, maybe so. Afterall, you have told me that my "G" girl is from the poorer ethnic classes. I might be like a Gringo Dan Juan in a smaller Mexican city somewhere...

The things that I do that appear to be stupid with respect to which girls I patronize in MTY, and how I spend my money on them, etc...are not mongering blunders, nor should they be considered as such. They merely illustrate our differences in expectation, and in our respective mongering styles. Plus, Carlos, you can not argue with my results if I can sincerely express that I am happy with the way things are these days.

Afterall, I am the one who has to be satisfied with my Monterrey experience after having puked huge sums of money to travel to Monterrey to begin with. So, as long as I am happy with the situation there now, I don't see how my changing my tactics will make me happier.

But, I am totally open to hearing your advice when I come to Monterrey next Saturday. You can slap me around, and try to convince me...you have a whole week in which to make me see your point of view :-)


[QUOTE=Carlos Perez]I don't agree with this part of MJ assesment:

"The typical Mexican sees them as "trash." We don't. We are actually quite appreciative of them because we know how crappy the P4P scene in the states is."

What is this?

MJ might mean it, but in his singular self, but it is not absolute. What he says is not the universal rule... on the contrary, it is Americans that see the girls as total trash.... come on, please I am part of many forums and I have read the posts.


No no no no... you guys are trying to interpret wrongly a natural order of things here in Mexico and I have told people like Wasted and USB and many others that the girls working as prostitutes are low on the scale of our society.
Contrary to the hypocritical socity in the USA, where prostitution can not exist, but tolerates all other excesses like drug consumption, my society at least see prostitutes as a needed evil, one that will allow them to try to get out of the pit where they are stuck.
We are using them????
We are PAYING them, THEY are using US, God you are so blind that you don't get the fundamentals of prostitution.... if you don't want to feel offended, don't come down here any more or you'll hurt your new-found sensibilities.
You have fallen into the biggest trap of prostitution... you don't see it?

I accept MJ's assesment cause he live in Morelia and he is now a local boy that has been absorbed by the night life. He understand totally now what is going on.

But that part that only Americans are the know-it-all in girls and prostitution in Mexico is really out of line.

Am going to confess that this is the first time Iam discontent with my friends Wasted and USB.

You are thinking on the line of soul searching and redemption, personal and third parties, when the subject here is total and unadulterated sex....[/QUOTE]

I am not one to classify anyone as "trash". Before I can judge anyone, I will have to judge myself first. No Carlos. That was not and will never be part of my observation.

I am not apologizing simply because that was not what I was referring to even if it was part of the post I responded to.

My treatment and my respect for the girls show and confirm the above. I love those girls and sympathies with them. They are down on their luck. The whole world can call them "trash" but I will not.

Wasted.

Some are down on their luck, and some are not. Some are merely willing to do things that most other women in Mexico would not consider doing, even when they are in desperate circumstances. I believe that most of the girls we patronize are willing to do whatever they can to get as much as they can out of us.

Carlos' use of the word "trailer trash" was not a commentary on his own opinion of them specifically, but to draw parallels so that I would relate to the potential character that might be inherent in most of the girls. I know that Carlos does have compassion and sympathy for them just as we do, but I also know that his decisions are not influenced by what they say and do.

In that respect, making a judgement about someone's character is neccessary in life. It is not a judgement made to judge them, but a judgement made to determine our reaction to what they might say and do. That is the difference between judging someone morally, and judging someone so that you, yourself, are not taken advantage of.

Carlos' illustration to me five years ago, that I should consider them as "trailer trash," was for my own protection, so I don't elevate them in status, and so I should realize that most are out to get everything they can out of me. He offered that advice to spare me from making too many costly mistakes, financially and emotionally, and not as a derogatory comment on them morally as individuals.

Because the girls seem so much better than the girls we have in the US that are of the same category, I had a tendency to be blinded by them. I didn't sometimes recognize the girls for what many of them are because they come across to me much differently than our girls of the same general category in the US.

I also sympathize and care about what happens to the ones that are special to me. I would not term those girls to be "trash." I appreciate them a lot.

But the real question is, how does their society categorize them...

The word "trash" sounds harsh when applied to the girls I am especially fond of. But, none-the-less, if they are aware that by making the choices they make, they are accepting the ridicule of Mexican society, which apparently does classify them as "trash," then, they are fully aware of the consequence of their decisions, and they themselves endorse the definition that is placed upon them by others within their own society. It's the price they are willing to pay, a revealing glimpse into the content of their character, one that seperates them from the rest of Mexican society.

But, I also think, that for some of these girls, Mexican society has labeled them "trash" merely based on their ethnic heritage, which is primarily a matter of skin color and indian ancestory. So, for many of them, I believe they have concluded that Mexican society deems them to be "trash" to begin with, regardless of the content of their character, and/or their range of activities. So, I believe that many of our girls figure they have nothing to lose.

Mexican society, while having negative opinions of the girls for what they do, permits that industry to flourish. That is an enlightened viewpoint, and one we in the US would be better off acknowledging in the future versus our continued prohibition of that activity.

[QUOTE=Wastedgman]I am not one to classify anyone as "trash". Before I can judge anyone, I will have to judge myself first. No Carlos. That was not and will never be part of my observation.

I am not apologizing simply because that was not what I was referring to even if it was part of the post I responded to.

My treatment and my respect for the girls show and confirm the above. I love those girls and sympathies with them. They are down on their luck. The whole world can call them "trash" but I will not.

Wasted.[/QUOTE]

I can't tell you the numbers of girls that have wanted to remain in my hotel room because it was so much nicer than their normal living environment, and my hotel room is not plush.

I am always amazed by their comments to me when they come into my hotel room, a room that I would term as very modest, one that is actually so small that you have a hard time walking around the end of the bed.

But, the beds are quite comfortable, and the air conditioning is good. Sometimes it becomes quite evident that they are content just to remain nestled under the covers, where they would just as soon spend the rest of the day if permitted to do so.

Add-in any additional enhancements to the environment that we as aspiring "Don Juans" might add into the mix, good music, tequilla, wine, chocolates, cookies, and on, and on, and, on...and it becomes quite evident that the girls figure that staying put is probably a damn site better than the rest of what they had planned for an otherwise routinely boring and tiresome day. :-)

Another HUGE aphrodisiac is "SHOPPING." I have known so many girls that have seemingly just falling head over heals in "love" if you merely take them shopping. You don't even have to buy anything. It is like they long for a man that will go shopping with them, to tag along, to comment on things with them... to share the experience. I am always amazed how this simple little act of going with them is seemingly so important to them emotionally.

And, with some girls, if you buy them stuff, even cheap trinkety little crap, while you are out together shopping with them, even if it is relatively modest amounts of stuff, even if you consider it as part of their compensation, they are totally and completely IMPRINTED on you forever.

I had another Thai girl, a real sweety, one that I took to a mall one day in Pattaya. She bought a pair of shoes and a shirt. It probably cost me about $30US that day. Typically, in those days, you could get a Thai girl todo la noche for about the same amount of money, 28 bucks to be exact. She was a HOT stripper in one of the bars in Pattaya, Thailand. I still paid her the normal fee for her time, but she came away with a day at the mall, something that absolutely impressed her beyond normal male comprehension. I could tell she absolutely loved going shopping. She told me at the end of the day how much she loved spending the day with me shopping. That was five years ago. She still text messages me to this day, asking me when I am coming back.

And, it does not happen just in Mexico. This has happened to me countless times in other venues Worldwide. I had countless girls that showed up at the hotel in Colombia just to track me down. I believe it was for the money, of course, but they are just as pleased to spend the night in a condo, and in a good bed, with strong air con, in a place that is hotter than hades all year around. So, they figure they are better off in a place that is comparative luxury for them.

It just goes to illustrate what might be motivating them to hang around with us when they would otherwise be gone like a shot were we occupying a place similiar to their own living environment, and/or not paying attention to them beyond the sex act itself.

We are sometimes not aware, especially as Gringos, about how the fulfillment of their most basic needs motivates them in ways that we might easily misinterpret as "love" and "affection" from them.

But, a well feathered nest is what keeps them relatively happy in the legitimate life, so I guess it should not be so surprising that our girls might also be interested in hanging around with us beyond the normal range of time for the same kinds of reasons, especially if they are fond of us to begin with.

[QUOTE=Mill Just]LOL. That reminds me of the time I brought a young "lady" back to my apartment. She got a glimpse of my pad in an exclusive area, my satellite dish, all the appliances, etc. And she offered me as much sex for as long as possible. Against my better judgement, I let her stay the night because she was such a hottie and in the morning she didn't want to leave. I practically had to push her out the door. Then she began to cry. She was crying about her lousy life and how I had so much. She wanted to know what it was like to live in comfort and she said that she would stay in my apt. While I was working so that she could clean. She promised to leave when I came back. It was about a 30 minute affair and I eventually had to literally push her from my building. Now, I forgot to mention that she was almost half naked while this confrontation was going on. Needless to say, my neighbors never treated me the same way again.[/QUOTE]

I don't generally refer to anyone as trash. It simply is not really part of my regular vocabulary, unless I am using it to make a point, or to conduct a philosophical discussion, just as racial slurs are also not a part of my vocabulary.

But, I must admit that I have been in circumstances where if I am thinking of someone as "trash," they have usually displayed behavor that makes them quite worthy of that description. It's not a socio-economic or racial thing with me. I firmly believe there IS trash in the world. Just come to my part of the world and I will introduce you to some of them. But, of course, I am not so naive as to believe that my particular part of the world has a disproportionate number of them in comparison to anywhere else.

There is an old saying that says "You can't buy class." Meaning that class is born of one's behavior, and not a product of social position and/or wealth. I don't really think that wealth or social position is neccessarily a criteria for determining the status of individuals we come in contact with (ie: Trash vs. Class).

There are many in the World that would just as soon stick a knife in your back than to look you straight in the eye. Conversely, there are many more that have faced significant hardships in their lives that would give you the shirts off their backs rather than to "routinely" resort to the kinds of behavior that benefit themselves at the expense of others. I imagine this distinction is the same in Mexico as it is in the US, keeping in mind that it is always easier to remain virtuous when one is rich and comfortable than when one is poor and hurting.

IMHO, our girls, depending on their individual personalities of course, fall somewhere between the two categories. Some are worse than others, some much worse...

But, generally, the behavior of the girls is sufficiently covert that I sometimes give them a greater benefit of the doubt than I should, or would, were I dealing with a Gringa. I give them, because of their personalities, in comparison to the typical Gringa, significantly more latitude in making such judgements that would categorize them negatively.

[QUOTE=Mill Just]regardless of their socio-economic level, choice of profession, education level, etc is trash. All of us, born of mothers and red of blood are equals. It's just that some of us were dealt better hands in life. But all of us, from the very richest to the very poorest are doing what we can, what's within our power to make this world a little better for us.[/QUOTE]

Violence is a part of any city. The drug trade is fueling a majority of this. I have changed my view of recreational drug use "not harming anyone" after watching Nuevo Laredo lose it's tourist traffic. Alot of hardworking merchants lost thier shops because of "recreational drug use" created a market which people are willing to kill to protect.

But, as far as Virginia Tech. That was a gun free zone. It was illegal for a gun to be on campus. Same with the drug lords in Mexico. Those are not legal guns. But, back to Virginia Tech. It wasn't that he had a gun, it was he had the ONLY gun. One armed teacher or student could have stopped or slowed the killings until the police could take over.

I know it is a silly sound bite but "if guns are illegal only criminals will have guns."

The fact that there are more incidents of drug on drug criminal killings wouldn't normally cause me much additional concern. However, with innocent bystanders getting caught in the crossfire, it suggests the mentality of the shooters is careless and unprofessional.

For that reason, I doubt that an armed citizenry would really have much effect on this kind of violent crime because it strikes without warning. It's not predictable with respect to the location of the crime scene, nor are there mutiple killings taking place where large groups of law abiding citizens are being killed by people with superior firepower. The element of surprise is what is making these victims, criminals themselves, succomb to their killers. I imagine many of the victims are themselves armed as well, and that the killings are being pulled off with an element of surprise.

However, that having been said, I totally support the right of the people to have firearms for personal protection, on their person, provided they are properly trained and can pass a thorough background investigation to determine competence and mental stability. I also believe that people wishing to possess a firearm should be required to submit to background investigations to rule out any criminal or domestic violence behaviors that might be in their past history.

With respect to my time here in Monterrey, I've tried to heighten my awareness of my surroundings. But, it should be noted that an increase in street crime is not really what's going on, so I really have no sense that anything has changed with respect to my walking the streets of downtown Monterrey at 3am. From what I can tell, nothing has changed with respect to my feeling safe from random street crime...

So, I really I don't have a sense as to what one can do to improve their chances of survival with respect to drug killings, short of staying in your hotel room, which is what I am perfectly content in doing with my "G" girl.

The thing to remember in circumstances like this is that with this kind of random violence, you really can't forecast where that violence might actually occur. It's hard to guess where lightening is going to strike, and the statistical chances of actually being struck by lightening, even if you stand outside during a bad storm, is very small.

So, IMHO, there is really very little you can do to prepare for it were you to find yourself in the circumstance where such a danger exists, other than to have a heightened sensitivity to potential danger. I can tell you that some of the killings are taking place in public places, places where you would normally feel totally safe, such as if you were just stopping into a 7-11 for a pack of gum or something.

In that situation, maybe just a deliberate effort at heightening your own awareness of your surroundings, looking into a place before you enter, checking the crowds around you, gauging the demeanor of groups of hombres that are in your midst, etc...that's about all you can do. But, to draw a parallel, it's the same as you might also try to do by staying inside to avoid being struck by lightening during a storm. But, at some point we ALL have to go out, verdad?

The clubs themselves seem to be pretty safe. I have noticed some subtle increased attention at the door to the clubs, patting down patrons for potential weapons. But, they've always done that. And generally, even before the violence started, and following the police raids, there were never any incidents of the police finding firearms, and very few, if any, drugs.

Fact is, I actually feel safer in the clubs than on the streets at this point, simply because you can not predict where the violence is going to take place when you're going about your routine business in the streets. It's kind of like any major US city is now, only I think it actually seems safer. In the US cities, you also have to worry not only about drug war activity, and the crime gangs having shoot outs fighting it out over turf wars, but you also have significants amounts of street crime to contend with, something that seems as though it's almost non-existent in Monterrey.

I decided that I should really start to worry when I see the street crime statistics starting to rise, such as to a level that is so common in places like Rio, or the barrios of Cartegena, or downtown San Jose, Costa Rica, or downtown Angeles City, Philippines. Compared to those places, Monterrey is still very safe for the average guy wanting to visit the clubs, and street crime is not even an issue here in Monterrey.

Plus, to understand why things are so safe for us, the police presence in downtown Monterrey really has a huge effect on street crime. I think they do a great job at creating a relatively safe environment within the footprint that we normally travel in order to visit all the clubs in downtown Monterrey. I think I might actually feel less safe in other areas where the police presence may not be so concentrated. In downtown Monterrey, the cops have a lid on it.


[QUOTE=Carlos Perez]Let me add a couple of things here.
Also included in a previous advisory is the State of Michoacan where Mill Just posts...
I would like to know if that fact has altered the way of life in Morelia, where MJ lives, or has he in any way detered Americans going his way?
If you check his posts in his section, he doesn't even mention what goes on over there, cause in reality, yes there is violence going on, but not where one threads along.
Same thing happens here in Monterrey, a city of 3.9 million so spread out that some of the executions happen more than 30 minutes away form where I live.
And no, NO Americans have been targeted, no civilians either, but unfortunatly in the 5 months of drug wars here, 3 innocent bystanders have been shot and bought the farm.
Which by the way is considerable less than the 32 shot dead at Virginia Tech in a single hour.
What is happening here is what Bugsy Siegel once said: "we only kill our selves" and that is precisly what is going on.
Every single one of the people killed was in one way or another related to drug traffic, drug sale or drug transport.
Let me tell you people that in no way this has stopped me from doing my club night rounds twice a week, or from doing the afternoon clubs either.
Let me also tell you that since the kilings started, not a single day has my wife told me "be careful out there", not a single one nor do we fear for our lives in general.
(Contrary to living in a country where people are allow by law to bear arms)
Ok, am a local partial to Monterrey.
Let us wait for our good friend Unspongebob to place his most recent trip report here... let's see what he has to say.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Admin]Select "Add New Message" to post a message.[/QUOTE]Hi,

I'm a newbie to this forum.

I live in Monterrey.

There's a lot of info in this forum!

Maybe the Mexican State Department should issue a warning for those traveling to Philadelphia in the USA:
This is just an example of why the State Department can't just issue warnings just like that, when there are places within the USA that are far worse than any city in Mexico.
Of course nothing can be compared to Rio de Janerio, where they've had 1300 murders (!!!) just this year.


Philly struggles with rising murder rate
By KATHY MATHESON, Associated Press Writer
PHILADELPHIA - A bloody, bullet-filled weekend left 11 people dead across the city, where drugs and disrespect have trumped brotherly love and the murder rate is on pace to be the highest in a decade.
Philadelphia has seen more than one killing a day this year, totaling 127 as of Monday afternoon. New York, Chicago and Los Angeles — whose populations are much larger than Philadelphia's 1.5 million residents — have had fewer homicides this year.
Do something!" District Attorney Lynne Abraham admonished Mayor John Street at one news conference.
Abraham and others have criticized Street for a perceived lack of urgency in responding to violence that killed 406 city residents last year — a nine-year high.





[QUOTE=UnospongeBob]The fact that there are more incidents of drug on drug criminal killings wouldn't normally cause me much additional concern. However, with innocent bystanders getting caught in the crossfire, it suggests the mentality of the shooters is careless and unprofessional.

For that reason, I doubt that an armed citizenry would really have much effect on this kind of violent crime because it strikes without warning. It's not predictable with respect to the location of the crime scene, nor are there mutiple killings taking place where large groups of law abiding citizens are being killed by people with superior firepower. The element of surprise is what is making these victims, criminals themselves, succomb to their killers. I imagine many of the victims are themselves armed as well, and that the killings are being pulled off with an element of surprise.

However, that having been said, I totally support the right of the people to have firearms for personal protection, on their person, provided they are properly trained and can pass a thorough background investigation to determine competence and mental stability. I also believe that people wishing to possess a firearm should be required to submit to background investigations to rule out any criminal or domestic violence behaviors that might be in their past history.

With respect to my time here in Monterrey, I've tried to heighten my awareness of my surroundings. But, it should be noted that an increase in street crime is not really what's going on, so I really have no sense that anything has changed with respect to my walking the streets of downtown Monterrey at 3am. From what I can tell, nothing has changed with respect to my feeling safe from random street crime...

So, I really I don't have a sense as to what one can do to improve their chances of survival with respect to drug killings, short of staying in your hotel room, which is what I am perfectly content in doing with my "G" girl.

The thing to remember in circumstances like this is that with this kind of random violence, you really can't forecast where that violence might actually occur. It's hard to guess where lightening is going to strike, and the statistical chances of actually being struck by lightening, even if you stand outside during a bad storm, is very small.

So, IMHO, there is really very little you can do to prepare for it were you to find yourself in the circumstance where such a danger exists, other than to have a heightened sensitivity to potential danger. I can tell you that some of the killings are taking place in public places, places where you would normally feel totally safe, such as if you were just stopping into a 7-11 for a pack of gum or something.

In that situation, maybe just a deliberate effort at heightening your own awareness of your surroundings, looking into a place before you enter, checking the crowds around you, gauging the demeanor of groups of hombres that are in your midst, etc...that's about all you can do. But, to draw a parallel, it's the same as you might also try to do by staying inside to avoid being struck by lightening during a storm. But, at some point we ALL have to go out, verdad?

The clubs themselves seem to be pretty safe. I have noticed some subtle increased attention at the door to the clubs, patting down patrons for potential weapons. But, they've always done that. And generally, even before the violence started, and following the police raids, there were never any incidents of the police finding firearms, and very few, if any, drugs.

Fact is, I actually feel safer in the clubs than on the streets at this point, simply because you can not predict where the violence is going to take place when you're going about your routine business in the streets. It's kind of like any major US city is now, only I think it actually seems safer. In the US cities, you also have to worry not only about drug war activity, and the crime gangs having shoot outs fighting it out over turf wars, but you also have significants amounts of street crime to contend with, something that seems as though it's almost non-existent in Monterrey.

I decided that I should really start to worry when I see the street crime statistics starting to rise, such as to a level that is so common in places like Rio, or the barrios of Cartegena, or downtown San Jose, Costa Rica, or downtown Angeles City, Philippines. Compared to those places, Monterrey is still very safe for the average guy wanting to visit the clubs, and street crime is not even an issue here in Monterrey.

Plus, to understand why things are so safe for us, the police presence in downtown Monterrey really has a huge effect on street crime. I think they do a great job at creating a relatively safe environment within the footprint that we normally travel in order to visit all the clubs in downtown Monterrey. I think I might actually feel less safe in other areas where the police presence may not be so concentrated. In downtown Monterrey, the cops have a lid on it.[/QUOTE]

Welcome Necho...

As someone living in Monterrey, are you acquainted with the various clubs and massage parlors? If so, I am interested in hearing which are your favorite clubs and massage parlors, and why. I know my own preferences, and the preferences of others that are regulars to Monterrey, but sometimes it's good to hear another perspective.

[QUOTE=Necho]Hi,

I'm a newbie to this forum.

I live in Monterrey.

There's a lot of info in this forum![/QUOTE]

I bar fined a new girl last night. This new girl is 20 years old, cute face, and she has a sexy flaca body, shaved, hard bodied, solid, rock hard, abs, everything just like I like it. She later told me that she has only been on the job for a year, and that she was on temporary assignment in Givenchy. She normally works the night shift at El Infinito.

First, one thing to keep in mind about selecting night shift girls in the lower end bars like El Infinito, Givenchy, El Cielo, Matehuala, versus afternoon girls, is that my experience is that the afternoon girls have much sweeter, GFE kinds of personalities, than the girls working the night shifts. I don't know why this is, but because of it, lately, at least over the last couple of years, I've avoided bar fining girls from the night shift. I am changing that strategy because I want to sample what the night shifts have to offer, and I concluded that perhaps I should keep all of my options open.

One thing I noticed in particular, for example, was a profound personality change in "Angry Girl" when she moved from the afternoon shift to the night shift. I noticed a pointed difference in her attitude, a personality change, a coldness, a totally pro attitude, etc...one that was not there formerly when she worked the afternoon shift. I don't know what to attribute this distinction to other than perhaps the late hours make them much crabbier, much more hardened due to their biological clocks being off, perhaps the crowds of men are much more mercenary to them...I don't really know why it would result in such a noticeable difference, but there are different kinds of girls on the night shifts versus the afternoon shift.

Anyway, to continue with respect to my new girl last night...

I tried doing my due diligence first...I tried her out in the privados, and she was really quite good. I know that others might have advised me to try her out the in privados first over the course of several visits on different days, but I have little time when I'm here, and I sometimes have to make quick decisions in order to maximize my time here in exchange for the cost of traveling to Monterrey. If I had more time, I might possibly be able to melt the ice a little. But, time is a luxury I do not have. So, I have to make snap decisions that many times result in my initial disappointment, which is moderately the case in this instance. But, honestly, I am comparing this initial session to ones that far surpass it, and ones that I have cultivated over the years, hopefully endearing myself to certain ones of them that give me a GFE kind of experience. So, I am not passing judgement on this one just yet.

I had sensed a kind of pro attitude from her in the privados, but if her performance in the privados was any indication of her potential, I decided I would overlook the quasi mechanical, but HOT, HOT, HOT treatment she was giving me otherwise. So, I bar fined her to complete my research.

She made all the right kinds of responses in the room, but in the final analysis, I sensed just too much of a hardened professional attitude from her for me to rave about her performance this first time. I would rate her a 7 for that reason, instead of a 9 or 10. She has real good potential if I could just get a better GFE response from her. I have resolved myself to working on her. But, I suspect she may not possess the sweetness that I find so alluring.

First, lets address the perverbial wall...The cold ones have a wall they almost all throw up there to protect themselves from their own vulnerabilities. The thicker the wall, the colder they are. This one was luke warm, sometimes cold, sometimes HOT, but she really displayed very little sweetness, something that I have ultimately discovered about myself and my own preferences, something I really like in a girl.

I liked my time with her in the moment very much because I could feel the doors of the perverbial wall coming off their hinges, but she doesn't really give an intense GFE that transcends the act itself, extending into the downtime spent with me. Frankly, the GFE is what is experienced in the downtime. Even the coldest ones are usually good in the moment because the wall usually begins to fade in the passions of the moment. She has a personality that once the passion is over, she has kind of a cold, hardened demeanor, and sweetness isn't seemingly a part of her personality.

I think I have become very, very picky these days, and I recognize my attitude as being picky. I don't really know what's happening to me, but I sense that I have established a criteria for them that I don't believe most Mexican girls are going to be able to live up to. They are going to have to either adore "ME," have exceptional people skills, be sweet as pie, or I'm going to have to invest significant amounts of time and money in penetrating the natural wall that so many of them have, and exposing a sweetness that may not really even be there to begin with.

As a side note, many of the girls working the low end clubs have very few people skills. That's why they work the low end bars...they don't like talking with customers, and many of them can't turn on the charm. If all they have to do is go into the privados, they can grind on your lap and do nothing else otherwise, maybe deliver the goods in a mechanical sense, but otherwise not much else. But, they don't have the selling ability that medium level bar girls need and generally seem to have in order to extract money in drinks from their clients. All the low end bar girls have to do is stand/dance on stage, and they have their 25 pesos/privado, and if they make quota, they get their salary too. Obviously, they can effect their income within the privados if they are skilled, but that doesn't translate easily to a girl actually being a good escort, which is really what a bar fine is all about, IMHO.

But, conversely, if you choose to bar fine from the medium level clubs, where many of the girls do have a charming personality, you will end up paying 30-40% more. So, that's the real dilemma. You only have a few, good low end bars to choose from, and if you can't find what you're looking for there, it's going to cost you more to actually find a true pro, one that can turn on the charm, and deliver the goods, versus some of the cold, callus types that have very little ability with respect to people skills. But, the sweetness aspect can not be under estimated as the most important part of my own personal criteria.

With some of the low end bar girls, I sense a hardness, a lack of sweetness there, a lacking trait that turns me off to repeating with some of them. Were it not for my admitedly harsh standards, some of them that might otherwise be perfectly acceptable to most, are not acceptable to me, and they suffer in their ultimate assessment as a result, especially on the initial bar fine.

But, just like in the case of this girl last night, even when her performance in the moment was really pretty stimulating for me, I could sense that before and afterwards, the wall that limits the GFE was firmly in place. She performed well in every way, all the right "oooos" and "ahhhhhhs out of her for apparently legitimate, sincerely felt, stimulating effect, etc...But, the sweetness aspect may not be part of her "real" demeanor anyway. Que Lastima...

But, my sensing that the "wall" was firmly in place takes some of the "fun" out of the experience. My sensing the "wall," which transmits a pro, cold attitude, has a tendency for me to downgrade their performance compared to some others I might prefer, ones that have no wall established between us, or ones where my own effort has, perhaps over time, broken down the wall of resistance.

Many of them have that wall firmly in place to protect themselves emotionally, psychologically, etc...and it can be easily sensed...When the wall is in place, they come across as hardened or callus. Some of them are just ice cold, even during the act. This one new girl from last night was putty during the act, which permitted me to give her better marks ultimately, but her lack of sweetness and her pro attitude served to detract from her performance as a result of her slipping back into a "cold" demeanor the moment the act was over.

It's almost like you're dealing with a girl with split personalities, like they have this strong urge to protect themselves from their own vulnerabilities, but if they have potential in spite of the "wall," you can sometimes, during the act, get a glimpse of the "real" girl that lives inside. This girl last night has some potential because she revealed the "real" girl inside, but it's going to take a lot of real work to mold her into anything that even comes close to my "G" girl for example. But, in all fairness, my "G" girl is one that developed an attitude over time, an attitude of trusting familiarity.

I recall when I first met my "G" girl two years ago, I considered her enjoyable, pleasant, but otherwise mediocre then. I considered her second string then, and for quite a long time. That's why it took me another year to actually bar fine her a second time, and the rest is history. As I recall, "G" had a measure of sweetness, but at the time, I distinctly recall believing she was also too much a pro, when in reality, I subsequently learned that she had only been in the job for a few weeks before I bar fined her. So, maybe I just have to work harder on the other candidates to mold them into what I like, and give the whole process a little more time.

As for my current recent assessment of El Infinito and Givenchy, the lineup at Infinito seems about the same. I think Givenchy is the new potential sleeper in the equation. They seem to have a lot more hot girls lately, and I think the owners are making an effort to create a club that is very similar to El Infinito, and even a better lighted environment where you can actually see the girls much more vividly as they dance. I also noticed that they did not make me present ID when I bar fined this girl.

Initially, the girl wanted to take me to one of the 100 peso hotels near the bar, not trusting me sufficiently because she had never gone with me before. But, I talked to her and convinced her I was not an axe murderer, and she decided to take a chance and accompany me back to my hotel. Had I been required to see her in the 100 peso hotel room, it would have significanty effected my game, and chances are, my rating of the overall experience would have probably dropped another couple of points as a result.

After we were done in my room, we went to dinner at El Al Restaurant on Madero, where she ordered enchiladas that resulted in having numerous hairs in the food. She was not particulary happy with my selection of restaurants as a result, but what was I to do at 3am when she tells me she is hungry? Actually, she was not really that bitchy about it at all, so maybe she has potential. I can't blame her for being turned off by hairs in the food, verdad?

Givenchi used to be pretty poor, with an occassional hot selection. But, lately they have a number of hot girls. Last night, Tuesday night, a typically dead night in the bars, had some pretty good options available in Givenchy. When I go into the privados with some of them, ones that I have not met before, or if I directly recognize them, it becomes apparent that they're on loan from El Infinito. But, it looks like the owners are intending to make Givenchy a better, low end club, one more akin to El Infinito with respect to quality of selection.

In the meantime, Matehuala appears to be slipping even further into the abis. The other night, Monday night, when I went there, I was totally disappointed at the number of thick, ugly girls they have working there. I realize that Monday night is one of the worst...but please, they have totally slipped out of my field of view lately. And, of the girls in Matehuala that are otherwise doable, they are also the ones that are either showing their ages, and/or have been around forever and started working at age 18. I have yet to bar fine a girl from Matehuala for at least a year and half. There just is never anything there that interests me.

Interestingly enough, in Matehuala they have curtained off the second stage completely. The bar is smaller now as a result, and there seems to be a smaller lineup as well. I also noticed this same circumstance with the bar across the street from El Infinito, Tangalay. They had opened up a second stage there over the last year of so, but they now have it curtained off as well. I don't know if in both Matehuala and Tangalay they're intending to remodel, or if it's just another example of clubs that are going down the tubes. With respect to Tangalay, I had thought lately that they too were actually coming up in the world slightly, but the other night when I visited for just a short time, I was disappointed at the assortment of thick or ugly girls working there.

Now, perhaps my negativism is because I am not visiting these same clubs on weekend nights, when austensibly the selection is better. But, none the less I was disappointed that there wasn't at least something that I would consider doable. But, then again, as I said, my own predjudices might be causing me to be too picky lately.