NATO, EU and even USA with crazy Trump, never threatened to attack any part of Russia, not even robbed Crimea. This war is only Putin war, not even Russians who are just blind meat.
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NATO, EU and even USA with crazy Trump, never threatened to attack any part of Russia, not even robbed Crimea. This war is only Putin war, not even Russians who are just blind meat.
[QUOTE=BloodRed;3087631]You failed miserably to answer my post and had to resort to selective quoting. [/QUOTE]Selective quoting is standard practice for focusing on substance, especially when cutting through repetitive claims and personal distractions. I identified and refuted your key points. The audience can verify that themselves by linking back to your post through mine. Here's my post again if you decide to try and tackle it.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;3087546]This isn't an argument, it's a prediction...[/QUOTE]
Ukraine should focus shooting Russian gas factories for no diesel for shameful Trump. USA stopped versus Iran because they miss bullets.
[QUOTE=BloodRed;3087473] This reminds me what Biden's defense secretary said a while after the Russian invasion in 2022. He said the purpose of supporting Ukraine was to make sure Russia pays a heavy price and is not able to do this again. Basically, he said the same thing as you, to make Russia bleed. He said nothing about Ukraine winning.[/QUOTE]This one was so ridiculous I skipped it, but let's expose it anyway for grins. BR wants us to believe that the West doesn't care if Ukraine prevails or not, as long as the poor little victim Russia bleeds.
But here's Defense Secretary Austin's quote in full, from that April 25, 2022 press conference in Poland: "We want to see Ukraine remain a sovereign country, a democratic country able to protect its sovereign territory. We want to see Russia weakened to the point where it can't do things like invade Ukraine. " Therefore BR pulls out one half of a quote then runs with a wholly false framing.
[URL]https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/blinken-austin-return-from-visit-to-ukraine-say-russia-is-failing-in-war-efforts[/URL]
That while you wrenched my quote about Russian suffering out of context. The aim of Russian suffering is of course to encourage them to back off their maximalist demands and settle for terms that preserve Ukrainian defense capability and sovereignty.
You also have another false dilemma going, as wanting Russia weakened while also wanting Ukraine to win their sovereignty aren't incompatible goals. And even from a cold strategic standpoint a Ukraine that survives is in our national interest.
Ukrainians still support Zelensky versus shameful Trump who wants to give money to Putin to kill Ukrainians.
[QUOTE=BloodRed;3087473] I have no horse in this race.[/QUOTE]Right buddy, how's that for a gem of a selective quote?
I'm heading to Europe for a month this week. I don't do online politics and the like during vacation time but will deal with any replies as time permits. Here's a list of Kremlin state media talking points that have been regularly posted here for years. They're actually few, simple, easy to present, but tough to defend. That's why their advocates rarely try.
Below that you'll find links to my recent posts that contain rebuttals to the same and more. The same posts were either responded to with dodges or completely ignored, usually the latter. Those that publish Kremlin talking points rarely want to engage. They publish, dodge or disappear, then come back posting the same already refuted content. The pattern is clear.
Pro-Russian talking points:
1. NATO eastward expansion involved coercion against the nations who joined. Official govt records, parliamentary debates, and formal applications from the countries involved say otherwise.
2. The 2014 Ukrainian popular uprising that ended with the removal of the pro-Russian president who fled in a 328-0 parliamentary vote was a "coup. " Definitions of the word coup be damned on this one.
3. Russia is justified in "red lines" that lead to invading neighbors when the same in their sovereignty seek to join NATO.
4. Putin bent over backwards to avoid war in 2022, even though he knew that his demand for NATO to change it's open door policy effectively banning Ukraine while closing up shop and committing to no further expansion would never get any serious consideration.
5. The West doesn't care about Ukraine, or even if they prevail or not as long as Russia is made to suffer and weaken. Ukrainian agency and will to defend their land is completely ignored, as are Western interests in seeing a sovereign Ukraine.
6. The insistence that Ukrainians are fools for fighting rather than surrendering has been constant since the start. The slogan "fight to the last Ukrainian" is misconstrued as a death wish. It's obviously Ukrainian resolve rhetoric, or "we'll fight as long as it takes. " This kind of lazy and cheap straw man tactic is the norm.
Russian victory is deemed inevitable and certain while the weight of current war analysis gives Ukraine a real chance of survival as a sovereign nation, especially if substantial Western aid levels persist.
7. The Ukrainian government is called Nazi, as are their national heroes stretching back to the 1940's. The Russians and their bedfellows claim to love Ukrainians while calling their national heroes, and by extension the Ukrainians themselves, "Nazis. " Consistency isn't mandatory. Zelensky's Jewishness is always ignored, as are the Russian Nazi groups fighting in Ukraine.
8. Ukrainian govt corruption is emphasized while the much greater levels of the same in Russia are completely ignored.
Besides all of that there's bare predictions, crystal ball stuff like Ukraine will never join NATO that don't warrant a response as they're typically only blusterous assertions without arguments.
Here's the links to many of my posted rebuttals over the last two months or so that were never answered. There were a few attempted answers with dodges but most of the posts were completely ignored. The last one is from yesterday, so in fairness there hasn't been much opportunity to reply to that one.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;3079137]Yanukovych fled Kyiv after signing an EU deal for early elections.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Paulie97;3079219]The "not one inch eastward" assurance was verbal...[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Paulie97;3079226]Zelensky is serving under martial law as elections are suspended during wartime. [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Paulie97;3079792]Bandera wasn't a Nazi.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Paulie97;3079799]You rarely make any "points" to address. Calling something irrelevant, a coup, or Nazi doesn't make it so. [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Paulie97;3079810]You say you respect the Ukrainian people but call their government Nazi. [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Paulie97;3082946]Enjoy your 22 out of 100 rating (Russia) in...[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Paulie97;3083400]As is typical Questner refuses to engage..[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Paulie97;3083401]And here's what Questner leaves out.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Paulie97;3083508]This whole paragraph is a list of grievances each one with a hole in it. [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Paulie97;3084323]Here's my response to the Iuliia Mendel article...[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Paulie97;3085544]Funny how a "dead nation"..[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Paulie97;3085802]There was no push to join NATO at that time.[/QUOTE]This one below includes a correction to the above.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;3085824]Ukraine's first push toward NATO membership was actually under Kuchma...[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Paulie97;3087546]This isn't an argument, it's a prediction...[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Paulie97;3087727]That's precisely your false dilemma as you leave out a third option. [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Paulie97;3087747]Repeating these emotionally charged falsehoods...[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Paulie97;3088049]Selective quoting is standard practice...[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Paulie97;3088392]This one was so ridiculous I skipped it, but...[/QUOTE]
With all his Russian meat, but Putin was not able to win, after 4 years and half. Fortunately, Europe help more Ukraine than shameful Trump who prefers to suck and be fucked deeply in the ass by Putin who doesn't want to make peace, just a liar like Trump.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;3088559]6. The insistence that Ukrainians are fools for fighting rather than surrendering has been constant since the start. The slogan "fight to the last Ukrainian" is misconstrued as a death wish. It's obviously Ukrainian resolve rhetoric, or "we'll fight as long as it takes. " This kind of lazy and cheap straw man tactic is the norm.[/QUOTE]I don't know. The way Russians have been dying lately, it very well may be Puting fighting to the last Russian.
[QUOTE]According to estimates reported by Bloomberg and NATO officials, Russia suffered more than 50,000 casualties in September 2026, marking its highest monthly loss rate of the year.
Key Breakdown of September 2026 Casualties
NATO / Bloomberg Estimates: Over 50,000 total Russian casualties (killed or wounded), with up to 28,000 killed.
Ukraine's General Staff Figures: Reported 46,230 Russian personnel losses (killed and wounded) for the month, an increase of nearly 46% compared to January 2026 (31,710).
Single-Day High: UK Defence Intelligence recorded a peak single-day loss of 2,090 Russian casualties on September 29, 2026.
Ukrainian Losses (Comparison): NATO and Ukrainian sources estimated Ukrainian forces suffered around 5,000 casualties during the same period.[/QUOTE]Clearly Russia is a much larger country, but not 10 x larger. The meat will run out one day.
In 4 years and half, with so many deaths and injured, Putin won less than 60 kms in Donbass and not Donetsk, for his war, he is only responsible, dreaming of becoming new Tsar of ex USSR. Competing for megalomania with Trump who wants to moonwalk in White House or Kennedy center, when so dirty image compare to JFK.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;3087727]That's precisely your false dilemma as you leave out a third option. Russia can at present be a grinding, attritional force that holds territory without being either stupid or unstoppable, and that's precisely what the evidence shows.[/QUOTE]So you agree that all this talk about Russia going on to take the Baltics and Eastern Europe is all propaganda by the EU and the west. That's good, we are on the same page then with respect to that.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;3087727]
My rebuttals are a few posts back, two separate posts. Other than to admit Putin is a dictator, you haven't answered a single one.
And I'm still waiting on your point by point reply to my Mendel rebuttal. You after all reposted her article so you should welcome the challenge.[/QUOTE]You ignored all my questions and resorted to selective quoting, all can see that.
As for Mendel, I just posted what she said. I don't know if what she said is 100% accurate. But I do agree with her that Ukraine is committing suicide and at the end of this war, Ukraine will die as a nation and will be left a dysfunctional rump state that will never ever join NATO (another thing you also agree with me about).
[QUOTE=Sirioja;3087737]Aren't Islamists? Who lead Iran?[/QUOTE]It's called the Islamic Republic of Iran. Islamic and Islamist aren't the same thing. Please educate yourself.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;3087747]Repeating these emotionally charged falsehoods over and over while ignoring all the rebuttals presented to you over your time here will never make them true. NATO enlargement was never forced on Ukraine it was Ukraine's own sovereign choice to seek membership, repeatedly reaffirmed through its elected governments and written into its constitution, and no country has a veto over another's alliance choices. [/QUOTE]What you fail to understand is that great powers have certain doctrines or red lines. What the fuck do you think the United States would do if Mexico joins a Chinese military alliance? Sit and twiddle their thumbs? The USA also has the Monroe Doctrine. Read up on it. Russia was never going to allow Ukraine into NATO or to not be neutral. You may disagree with that and so can Ukraine. But any person who knew anything knew that Ukraine seeking to join NATO would result in it getting wrecked, which is happening now. What's sad is that you yourself admit that Ukraine will never join NATO. Even the drugged out clown is resigned to that fact. So again I ask, was neutrality so bad for Ukraine?
[QUOTE=Paulie97;3087727]
Framing Putin's invasion as a justified response to a "red line" erases that Russia launched a full-scale invasion of a non-threatening neighbor, which is the actual proximate cause of the deaths not Western policy. And the claim that the West wants Ukrainians dying to "bleed Russia" ignores that Ukraine itself chose to fight rather than surrender, and the West is the one supplying the aid keeping Ukraine's defense possible at all.[/QUOTE]Are you really this dishonest that you cannot admit that the EU wants to use Ukraine to make Russia bleed? If they really want to help Ukraine "win", why don't they put their own boots on the ground? They are happy that it's Ukrainians dying and not their own soldiers, which is disgusting and immoral and pure evil.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;3087727]
Also, if NATO is the primary threat then why the muted response to Finland joining? But the issue isn't NATO at all, but in Russia's desire for a sphere of influence and particularly resources that belong to Ukraine.[/QUOTE]Are you really this thick? I have said many many times so pay attention again. UKRAINE joining NATO was the brightest of red lines. Not Finland. Hell, even Georgia was. See how their little stint at trying to join NATO turned out in 2008.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;3088049]Selective quoting is standard practice for focusing on substance, especially when cutting through repetitive claims and personal distractions. I identified and refuted your key points. The audience can verify that themselves by linking back to your post through mine. Here's my post again if you decide to try and tackle it.[/QUOTE]You must resort to selective quoting when you want to weasel out of answering my questions. Everyone can see that.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;3088392]This one was so ridiculous I skipped it, but let's expose it anyway for grins. BR wants us to believe that the West doesn't care if Ukraine prevails or not, as long as the poor little victim Russia bleeds.
But here's Defense Secretary Austin's quote in full, from that April 25, 2022 press conference in Poland: "We want to see Ukraine remain a sovereign country, a democratic country able to protect its sovereign territory. We want to see Russia weakened to the point where it can't do things like invade Ukraine. " Therefore BR pulls out one half of a quote then runs with a wholly false framing.
[URL]https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/blinken-austin-return-from-visit-to-ukraine-say-russia-is-failing-in-war-efforts[/URL]
That while you wrenched my quote about Russian suffering out of context. The aim of Russian suffering is of course to encourage them to back off their maximalist demands and settle for terms that preserve Ukrainian defense capability and sovereignty.
You also have another false dilemma going, as wanting Russia weakened while also wanting Ukraine to win their sovereignty aren't incompatible goals. And even from a cold strategic standpoint a Ukraine that survives is in our national interest.[/QUOTE]The west does want Ukraine to win, but Ukraine cannot and won't win. I think the ones with brains know that. Once again, if the EU really wants Ukraine to win, let them join in and put BOOTS ON THE GROUND. Why don't they do that?
As for the Austin quote, as I said, he made no mention of Ukraine winning and defeating Russia and regaining the territory they lost. Because he knew that won't happen. The goal was and is to make Russia bleed, using poor Ukrainians as a battering ram. If you cannot admit that, then you are clearly dishonest. Ukraine will never regain the territory they have lost, and will lose more territory the longer this goes on.