Bangkok Reports

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2331338]Gals expectations have developed along with the economy. 20 years ago most Thai gals thought they were ugly.[/QUOTE]

So true. I still remember rather good looking 26 year olds complaining they're old women, and ugly to boot. Now the hookers pushing 40 (who tell punters they're 29) think they're the hottest thing ever. Part of it is the economy, but demographics are also a huge factor.

In any case, a Farang expat or tourist marrying a working girl used to be common in the past (I [I]almost[/I] ended up doing that), but with the current crop of hookers, one would have to be truly delusional to even contemplate the possibility.

[QUOTE=Mogwai;2331194]Are they never mad at you? Because by taking a girl outside she might get the impression that you've already decided to take her home. Or do you only say 'let's go outside to discuss things in private', or something like that, without agreeing to anything yet in the bar?[/QUOTE]Oh, definitely the latter. Glad you asked so I could clarify. I treat it the same as suggesting a move to a quieter section of the room or as in the move I mentioned when a girl wants me to sit in a booth or at a table to discuss terms. I usually see 1-2 other couples out there apparently doing the same thing.

I do what I can to avoid making her think I have immediately decided to take her and "Let's go!"

I am not saying some girls have not misunderstood it to mean otherwise. I can't say for sure. But it has never been a problem for both of us to walk right back inside to carry on if the deal has not been struck outside.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;2331355]That's true. Even today, most Thais of all social classes strongly prefer to stay in Thailand, although many don't mind going abroad for a holiday these days.

However, in the past, most women from lower classes of society would accept moving abroad as part-and-parcel of social and economic advancement that marriage to a (relatively) wealthy Farang would bring to her and the entire family. They would prefer if he stayed in Thailand and bought them a house of course. Or even better, just bought the house and sent money without staying.

This is in stark contrast with the Filipinas who's jump at a chance to live abroad, preferably permanently.[/QUOTE]The Philippines was a US colony up until 1946. The US influence in the Philippines still remain strong, especially because a lot of healthcare workers comes from the Philippines. It embedded in the cultural fabric. Where compare to Thailand which claims to never been colonized by a western power but they did yield to the Japanese Army during world war 2. Around Thailand you can see that Thai-Japanese relations are pretty strong. I would guess that Thai would more likely move to Japan vs other western nation.

[QUOTE=Aviator12;2331177]Very interesting story this. I just think you made it too complicated. I am sure you know that most of these bar girls are simple farm girls from Isaan. Some are very clever, but they simply do not like complicated customers. Why do you think Koreans are so popular? I have asked this questions to bargirls many times and their reply. Apart from the easy-money / pay better / come in 1 minute aspect, it is always the same; falangs are complicated and ask too many questions. Koreans just smile and are happy and easy-going. They do not ask questions about their personal life or make complicated suggestions like the one you suggested. I am sure you know this and I am sure that you just wanted to play games with the girls this evening, but the story is a brilliant example of what many falang seems to miss; do not make it complicated. Smile, be happy, joke with her. Do not enter into questions on political issues, Thai mentality, her personal life etc. If she is not willing to lower the price, just walk away and try the next one. On a side note; I have a friend that visited Bangkok for the first time last year (he is over 50 years). He love to talk politics with everybody. So he started that also with go-go bargirls in Bangkok. After some time I had to tell him to stop. He just wasted his time. The girls are not interested, in general they have no idea of what is going on outside Thailand, and they could not care a rats-ass about politics or your opinion. So in the end he gave up.[/QUOTE]Yes, it was really more of a fun test (game?) than anything else; how little could I ask of an already aggressively lobbying P4P girl upfront in order to avoid any discussion or mention of condoms initiated by her and severe push back for not agreeing to her initial asking price. Well, at least she did not demand or even mention a condom for the DATY. Lol. However, I did get push back so severe on my money offer no midway counter offer was even considered. LOL.

In this case, I suppose the only thing that might have been asking less of her would have been if I'd said I would give her 2,000 baht to just sit in the taxi outside while I went inside my room alone for 15 minutes. To which she and the mamasan presumably would have said in unison, "All the girls here get 3,000 baht for Short Time!"

I don't know. Is that taxi arrangement a well known fetish for which bargirls are prepared in a nanosecond to jack up the price and stick to it as well?

One thing I learned from this little test was neither this girl nor either of the two mamasans in Butterflies who descended on me when it looked like I might pay a barfine are familiar with customers asking for anything in particular in the room and are only familiar with them negotiating price. Which is what I fear it has come to these days anyway.

Despite the oft repeated advice about telling the girl or the mamasan what you want beforehand, they've heard it all, etc., etc., I think the truth is these girls and mamasans almost never hear anything from the cusomer regarding what he expects of her for the money he is going to give her. They are totally confused about what to do or say about it when that happens. Which I think is similar to your point as well.

[URL]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7107019/Thailand-PM-inspired-Bourton-Water-swap-prostitutes-flowers.html[/URL]

I generally stick around lower Suk while in Bangkok. Any opinions on where specifically the working girls are that the Junta Gen specks of?

[QUOTE=FarangPunter;2331397]The Philippines was a US colony up until 1946. The US influence in the Philippines still remain strong, especially because a lot of healthcare workers comes from the Philippines. It embedded in the cultural fabric. Where compare to Thailand which claims to never been colonized by a western power but they did yield to the Japanese Army during world war 2. Around Thailand you can see that Thai-Japanese relations are pretty strong. I would guess that Thai would more likely move to Japan vs other western nation.[/QUOTE]Quite true. At least a couple of Thai girls have told me if there is rebirth they would prefer to born in Japan. It would have been a good follow up to ask as a woman or man (if that is permissible in the after worlds and what naught) but really I just keep it simple when in LOS seeking my next drink and / or the next super lay.

[QUOTE=Allover;2289969]Deja Vu, Kiss, Midnite, Rio, Sahara, Rawhide, and Spice Girls are owned by a guy known as the Arab. He's actually Iranian. All of his bars are known ripoffs. Avoid all of them.[/QUOTE]A friend of mine went into Sahara last night and was assaulted by one of the bouncers. He was with 2 other friends. They were handed a bill of 8000 baht for 3 drinks total. They say its bullshit, and they then lower the price to 4000. They still say it's not correct, the bouncer then proceeds to punch my friend in the face around 10 times in front of a police officer. He doesn't retaliate, and still tells them the price isn't correct while profusely bleeding from his brow. So they let them leave without paying anything. The price ended up being 20 stitches at the hospital.

I wasn't there to see it happen, and I'm only telling a summarized version 2nd hand. But it does show that there are still potentially dangerous situations and scammy practices going on in some go go bars. Even a simple search shows that place should be avoided along with all the other Arab owned bars in Soi Cowboy. I've never had an experience like this, but the lesson I would take away from my friend's story is that doing a bit of due diligence on websites like this helps quite a bit with avoiding shit situations like that.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2331402]
Despite the oft repeated advice about telling the girl or the mamasan what you want beforehand, they've heard it all, etc., etc., I think the truth is these girls and mamasans almost never hear anything from the cusomer regarding what he expects of her for the money he is going to give her. They are totally confused about what to do or say about it when that happens. Which I think is similar to your point as well.[/QUOTE]My main advice is to avoid the interfering mamasans at all costs if possible. I don't give a shit what they heard before and what they did not. They are going to adversely affect any attempted negotiation. The girl may agree to a lower price, in "private", unless a hell of a lot of guys on here quoting they got a lower price, are liars.

Truly I have had plenty of girls with no price negotiation at all. Easier for me, since I and not looking for special requirements, in terms of what we will do on a bed. Just want a girl that can relax and enjoy herself. Perhaps that is a tall order these days. So I ask questions to get information about the style of girl these days. That is not a negotiation at all.

I have found a girl that will go all night, and never had a price negotiation with her, even once. I need BB since pussy is a bit too tight. Maybe a bit too brown skinned for some guys on here, and tits too small for smoothy, but rest of body is good enough and face cute for me. Girls with attitudes like the old days still exist (just hard to find). I don't recall now if a mamasan was ever involved. Mamasans approach, but I am largely ignoring them, certainly not discussing taking a girl. I just hand BFs to the girl and she can go see the mamasan herself. No one method is going to feel right for everyone, I am sure. However the thing I need most, a certain girl attitude, cannot be negotiated.

As ET has mentioned, we can promise a bonus for the girl if she extra good, or extra "GFE". I don't believe we should have to pay the same price to every girl regardless of her quality and her attitude.

One possible remedy I was and am considering. Find a reasonably good looking girl on Soi 4 for a bargain basement base price. Then promise her various bonuses depending on just how good she can make the session. I certainly had girls that did not want to give much, but then I had not offered the bonuses. Lucky I found Naam, tall and well above average looks (small tits) that does not cut the time and gives full on tongue kissing etc. She is not at all adverse to a good bonus. Fun girl. A good session is guaranteed. No risk. Actually the best girl I had from Soi 4, ever, and that is over many years. Still would like to try the stunning deaf girl, if get a chance, with bonuses offered.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2331334]It's their business to be able to read you and ascertain what you want and need. Most are quite good at it even if they seem out to lunch about so much.

I'd say you have just as much chance of contracting something here as you do in AC. Part of the game.

It's an illusion so don't delude yourself. But as illusions go, it's one of the best.[/QUOTE]The truth is the truth.

Please elucidate the situation for me.

I have never used a condom in Asia.

60+ days in BKK and almost 120 in AC.

With some sessions include anal.

And have not contracted anything yet, probably close to 200 sessions?

But I have heard the law of averages is a [blue][Deleted by Admin][/blue].

[QUOTE=Allover;2289969]Deja Vu, Kiss, Midnite, Rio, Sahara, Rawhide, and Spice Girls are owned by a guy known as the Arab. He's actually Iranian. All of his bars are known ripoffs. Avoid all of them.[/QUOTE]I think he also owns that Cowboy 2 bar.

I feel whether Thai women will relocate abroad depends on circumstances.

If professional and educated, from a middle income up socioeconomic background, they are less likely for sure. However if its true love and he's close in age, seriously financially secure and accepted by her family it's more than possible.

Girls on low incomes with little prospects of improving their circumstances are much more likely to move abroad especially if their partner is also willing to take care of her family or promises her an work opportunity to do her herself. Here his circumstances I. E. His age appearance and her feelings for him are less important but also play a part I. E. Is he a true Farang Jai Dee.

The smarter more experienced working girls seeking higher earnings are increasingly working abroad for limited periods most likely in Korea and Malaysia although they can be found almost anywhere. This is often cited as a reason for the declining quality of local talent.

All that said it is commonly accepted that Thai's unlike say Filipinos are among the least mobile people on the planet.

[QUOTE=Aviator12;2331177]Very interesting story this. I just think you made it too complicated. I am sure you know that most of these bar girls are simple farm girls from Isaan. Some are very clever, but they simply do not like complicated customers. Why do you think Koreans are so popular? I have asked this questions to bargirls many times and their reply. Apart from the easy-money / pay better / come in 1 minute aspect, it is always the same; falangs are complicated and ask too many questions. Koreans just smile and are happy and easy-going. They do not ask questions about their personal life or make complicated suggestions like the one you suggested. I am sure you know this and I am sure that you just wanted to play games with the girls this evening, but the story is a brilliant example of what many falang seems to miss; do not make it complicated. Smile, be happy, joke with her. Do not enter into questions on political issues, Thai mentality, her personal life etc. If she is not willing to lower the price, just walk away and try the next one. On a side note; I have a friend that visited Bangkok for the first time last year (he is over 50 years)..[/QUOTE]I'm a 51 yo white guy.

I got a couple free bargirls without even buying them a drink in a couple Korean bars in AC on my recent trip (this one was from dragon bar).

So I'm laying in bed with one after we finish, and we are chatting a bit I ask her if she likes white guys or Koreans more.

She says Koreans, I ask why?

She says easy customers (most don't even speak English).

In ac most white guys speak English and want to pre-negotiate every detail and if they don't get everything we agreed to.

They will be yelling in the room and will probably come back to the bar to yell more.

Not the Koreans.

The prices are pre set.

They accept whatever is given, period!

There is never a debate or argument.

She says every girl in her bar is the same way.

They go for easy money.

This is how desperate duan destroys mongering.

Pays any price for any service.

I've been in almost every bar in ac in 120 nights.

99% are not worth the pre-set BF and girls fee, plus drinks.

Plus / plus / plus.

So they are getting overpaid by him and they can give him as little as they want.

Just run out the clock and make sure he cums somehow.

I was talking to a mamasan in dragon one day LOL.

She wanted me to fuck her LOL.

She was telling me she's also an interpreter for the bar.

She speaks Japanese.

I asked you get many Japanese customers? She said no, but we advertise to them.

And we get a few, and we need someone that can at least tell them the price.

So its obvious how desperate duan operates.

Its quite deliberate, ask for as little as possible, pay more than everyone else.

Take them for a massage and dinner, buy them roses, and don't forget to tip them well LMAO.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;2331550]My main advice is to avoid the interfering mamasans at all costs if possible. I don't give a shit what they heard before and what they did not. They are going to adversely affect any attempted negotiation. The girl may agree to a lower price, in "private", unless a hell of a lot of guys on here quoting they got a lower price, are liars.[/QUOTE]One possibility I did not mention and waited to see if anyone else has gotten the same immovable, repeated "All girls here get 3,000 baht for ST" mantra from Butterflies girls and mamasans lately is if the girls are being extorted for as much as a 1,000 baht per ST kickback to the mamasans. Sure, maybe the girl just loathed the thought of me licking her pussy for a while so much even 2,000-2,500 baht was not nearly enough payment for her to subject herself to it.

But the thought did cross my mind during the mamasan interference and neither's willingness to budge even an inch to make at least some decent money for doing nothing requiring much effort that somebody is protecting the top asking price of somebody else a little too passionately here. So passionately that they are willing to see a relatively easy 2,000 baht walk away without even making a 2,500 baht split the difference counter offer. Just a thought.

[QUOTE]Still would like to try the stunning deaf girl, if get a chance, with bonuses offered.[/QUOTE]Several nights ago I saw another blondish double hair braided/pony-tail deaf girl standing near the first letter N side of the Nana Hotel sign. She was not the very hottest one I last saw there a couple of months ago. This one was skinnier, but still cute. As the copy-cat blondish double hair braided/pony-tail deaf girls go, she was imo the cutest of the copy-cats. There must be a half dozen girls at or near that Nana Hotel sign sporting that same look now.

Some here may remember the first great Dr. BJ's Salon super star, EE, who stopped working a few years ago. As far as I know, she was the first BJ bargirl to break with expectations and wear very large black horn rimmed glasses. She was sexier, better looking and more skilled than most at her job. The glasses did not detract much and she would remove them on request during the deed. They became her trade mark. Soon enough, MANY other BJ bargirls at that bar and other such bars began to show up wearing very large black horn rimmed glasses. LOL. Apparently, they were hoping to catch customers sent there by word-of-mouth (pun intended) to "choose the one with very large black horn rimmed glasses."

The same copy-cat thing seems to be happening with that blondish double hair braided/pony-tail look for many of the deaf girls in front of the Nana Hotel sign.

Anyway, I did not want to negotiate right there on the spot but got this one's Line info, which she was happy to give without hesitation. However, a closer look at her Line account left me with some confusion in that, although the girl in the profile photo looked generally like the one I'd just met in terms of size, skinniness and skin color, her hair and style was completely different, which is easy to happen, and she did not look nearly as cute in her pics as she did in the flesh. Of course, the latter does happen, too. But this was so stark I actually doubt it is the same girl. LOL. Some kind of switcheroo? Maybe.

As far as her (or whoever's) willingness to agree to my requirements of either a BBBJ+CIM or BBFS+CIP (I did not say it that way, of course), the answer to BBFS+CIP was no, definitely no and no again, "1,500 for sex. Must use condom." The BBBJ+CIM part has not really been answered yet. I say yet because, much to my surprise, she did not block me after saying no, definitely no and no again to my general requirements and has continued off and on to send me little "Hi" messages every now and then as though she did not want to close the door entirely on what I was offering with a bonus. btw, I had also mentioned my vasectomy and recent normal blood check document. Maybe those are additional reasons she has not completely closed the door on agreeing to have a ST my way just yet.

First day in BKK and went for what I was having in mind a short stroll in Soi Cowboy. I wasn't expecting that much after reading the posts here about the go-go scene's especially in SC but it wasn't that bad after all. Did only 3 bars from about 09:30 pm until 3:00 am.

In fact I'm surprised to realize now and see how long I have been staying around there but I think it proves at least for me that I didn't had a bad time. First bar I went into was Dollhouse. It was quite busy but still some seats available. I think that most girls I've seen on stage were between 25 and 30 year old. Bodies were OK, mostly slim girls and I don't think I have seen silicones. I would give it an overall score of 6. 5 in regards to looks.

There was a girl I believe she was number 77 that I laid my eyes on. Actually she locked her eyes on me instead. I was attracted by her great smile. Funny to realize that the nonsense non-verbal interaction can give you a great feeling, haha. I was wondering that she would come over after her dance shift but she didn't and eventually I went off to the next bar, Kazy Kozy.

I can be short about that bar. Girls looked rather horrendous. Little to saggy tits and bodies without much curves. There were barely customers and the show didn't made it any better. I can't understand that such shows are of great value to attract customers. There were only a few and most of them were Asians (I was sitting on the ground level as upstairs the papasan told me it's empty). As for me it works the opposite to watch such shows especially when there was nothing else worthwhile to watch or talk to. I didn't spend longer than 30 minutes just to find out that the next shift would be of better quality. Perhaps I should go earlier next time as I know that 10 pm is quite late. It might as well be that many of them have been bar fined as there weren't that many girls on stage.

Went to Shark and the place was quite full with many girls on stage. Quality of girls was OK. Perhaps here the girls are also going into their thirties. Nothing really worth mentioning but it wasn't bad either knowing how late it was (perhaps around 11:00).

I ended up in Dollhouse again and number 77 was still around. Eventually she came and sit down with me and we had good fun. Even though she doesn't tick off many boxes in regards to my physical preferences I just liked her character and style. Her name is Mai, 25 yo I believe she was and speaks reasonable English. Has two children but I believe that I was too drunk to find out that she has any damage. She's not slim but I would not define her as being fat either. Again, she was good fun for me and she's a good kisser. I considered her to bring her with me to my hotel but then I understood that she has to bring her kid to school quite early. I might do ST with her in case I go into SC again. Perhaps I'll be going to Nana tonight and see what's available over there.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2331589]One possibility I did not mention and waited to see if anyone else has gotten the same immovable, repeated "All girls here get 3,000 baht for ST" mantra from Butterflies girls and mamasans lately is if the girls are being extorted for as much as a 1,000 baht per ST kickback to the mamasans. Sure, maybe the girl just loathed the thought of me licking her pussy for a while so much even 2,000-2,500 baht was not nearly enough payment for her to subject herself to it.
[/QUOTE]I am sure girls get to tip the mamasan, but 1000 kick back seems excessive. Still if the mamasan is critical to getting deal done or bringing the girl over, you never know. I don't allow mamasans to introduce a girl of her selection. I always tell them I will chose by myself. If we do accept, then kickbacks will be highly encouraged and only some girls maybe paying the kickbacks (probably bad girls).

I can probably research this topic further with bar Service staff girl I have known for 5 years. She is likely to tell me the truth, quietly if others not overhearing. Even the barfined girls will sometimes be open enough to say what mamasans they like and hate, and if any kickbacks get paid. Not all bar girls are habitual liars with all customers. Girls tend to know they can be straight up with me. I don't need any sweet talk bullshit. It is much more relaxing for a girl when she does not have to make stories and try to remember to be consistent. I also minimise asking of difficult questions. It is much easier for girls to just omit embarrassing information, rather than tell actual lies. That is what my GF does. She just clams up if does not want to answer. Only caught her on a lie once or twice. She can have a distorted view of reality though. That is different.

Soapy girls pay kickbacks to the Cheer-persons in order to be recommended. This means the cheer person can be recommending a totally shit girl just to get the kickback. They recommend girls in their "stable". That is why I never trust advice unless I know the person is reliable. I don't like tipping much in advance, until advice has proved to be brilliant (that is going to be quite rare), but will tip those I use who have provided reliable special info generally.