Bangkok Reports

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;1639972]Right, but why would you want to get "entrenched" in the first place. I have very little to do with local men wherever I travel in SE Asia. I won't get into an argument with taxi drivers, bouncers or anybody else. I remain above the fray. I accept the fact that I am going to pay a farang tax wherever I go and I don't give a shit. I never forget the fact that I am a visitor no matter how long my stay is and I am not Thai. I am here for just one thing, the girls, with great food and a few beautiful island beaches thrown in as a bonus. I am not looking to make friends with the local Thai "Goodfellas" or anybody else. If you are actually worried about your safety, then I think it is a good time to move and give LOS a break for a while. Take a year off in Phnom Penh, Subic, or just travel around SE Asia, then come back to Thailand with a clean slate.[/QUOTE]Wish I could do as you suggested but I'm here other than the girls but the girls is what keeps me going now I'm came here because I have a Thai family and I had no problems living with Thais. But what I've found in Pattaya the men think they have a right to step all over you like they are entitled to it. As for the motorbike taxi guy, I had left W. S. One night on my bike just going slowly when this motorbike taxi came out of no where and clipped my mirror it was only me seeing him avoided a much bigger accident. I kind of yell out while I was avoiding him and I guess he got offended for some reason. It was 2 am in the morning next thing I know he pulls up to me and starts to Muay Thai my leg, first twice three times saying "what" I was not looking for a fight he kept it up in the middle of 2nd road, finally I got pissed I chased him down while he took off like a coward. Basically pop a wheelie on top of him and bike he was shocked and started to look for the other motorbike guys to help him. I got off my bike and walk up to him with my helmet and head butted him and broke his nose. I believe because I look like Thai no one came to jump on me? I just got on my bike and left around the corner I came to my senses and took off like a bat out of hell as they say?

I stay because I am raising my son and I no longer fear for my life it is just the way it is as I noted I'm resided to it. I have the greatest respect for their Mafia but it is small time compare to where I'm from and what I've seen. In general average Thai men are cowards but I do not look for fights and I only dread one day I get kicked by a Muay Thai boxer. I've fool around in a Muay Thai gym with a friend who owns one and I ask this young guy to kick me for the fun of it and it was not funny when they know what they are doing.

As for a clean slate I tried but trouble comes my way? The only place I've been that I've felt comfortable and home is in Hong Kong where I spent every summer while I was growing up. I still have family there and they are the ones watching over me while I stay in Thailand.

[QUOTE=Fuddzie;1639984]I imagine there is a ground zero. What is the average cost.[/QUOTE]As a rule 2 ladies cost twice as much as one lady. For example, Annie's charges 2500 baht for 2 hours inhouse with 1 lady. Two ladies will be 5000 baht. Takeout costs 5000 baht for 1 lady. You can pick her up anytime after 5 pm and she will leave the next morning. The time depends on when she has to be at work the next day (11:00 or 15:00) and how much she likes you. Again, double it with 2 ladies.

Of course there are tips on top of this. Guys argue about appropriate tips. For Annie's inhouse 500 for 1 lady is reasonable. For outcall, I'm more generous. The ladies tell me they get 2000 out of the 5000 and they spend 16 or more hours with me. If the lady is special and stays with me until after 12:00, I'll give her a very good tip. I had the good luck of having several outcalls with the famous #24. She was amazing and I used to give her 5000. As the saying goes, "Up to you. "

I'm not advocating Annie's over the other MPs. I listed them alphabetically. As Annie's is the first on the list I used it as an example. Be aware, some MPs show an 800 baht fee for 2 hours. It is understood you will give the girl 1500 baht on top of that plus a tip of a few hundred baht if you wish.

Also, if you do the threesome in house you will probably want to spend a few hundred extra baht for a VIP room, which will have a bigger bed. Not sure a threesome would work very well on the tiny beds in a standard room. FYI, Dr BJ's Nuru has fantastic VIP rooms, which are nicer than the rooms in the more economical hotels. You can find pricing policies on each MP's website.

The escort agencies will explain 2 girl pricing on their websites.

When booking 2 girls it's important to make sure the girls work well together. Many guys will pick one girl and let her pick the other.

Spent two night in Bangkok last month. Not enough time to try everything this fine city has to offer, but enough to get the highlights.

Stayed at the Marriott close to Nana's. Nice central location for walking around and in the middle of most of the action. Some of the options that I saw were.

SW everywhere, some of them right down scary. Did not partake, but I am sure they were cheap.

Massage parlors also everywhere, walked up to Annie's to see the line up. Nothing that caught my eye, mostly older or overweight. Some of the other massage parlors seem to have a better selection.

BJ bars, quite a few within walking distance. Quality of ladies not as great. But decided to have a cold one while getting my whisel clean. Kind'a fun, but would not repeat.

Devil's den, mostly older providers. Did not see anything appetizing.

Nana plaza, either bars with slightly older ladies or lady boys. For completeness sake and in the interest of research (only) had a cold one at one of the LB bars. Hard to tell that some where actually LBs, but after a few minutes of watching them dance and having them get aggressive towards me, I had enough and left. If LBs is your thing, then Nana's is the place to go.

Say Cowboy. Tow type of bars; drink bars where you go in, sit with a lady or two, invite them a drink and get a little frisky with them. No bar fine, so you are just wasting your money. Take out bars, which Baccara being the most popular one, you sit to watch the show, pick a girl, buy her a drink and chit chat and decide if you want to take her out. Pay bar fine, find a short time hotel (quite a few within a few minutes walking distance, and go have fun). Tried this twice and both times had a great time. Did not try long time as I had work the next morning, but should do it next time. The down side is that for short time is one pop, you are done. , but can pretty much take a much time as you want.

[QUOTE=Fuddzie;1639982]Why Japanese. Looks are in the eyes of the beholder, with that said, I think Japanese girls are prettier. Physically, I like their thighs and boobs are nicer. Just my taste.[/QUOTE]I'm not saying 'why Japanese? I'm saying 'why would you expect to find them in Thailand?' Japanese girls are indeed attractive, and Japanese hookers can earn good money in their own country, where frankly they rarely service other races. I just don't think any would come to Thailand for that very reason. But of course there are lots of non-p4 p Jap girls around. Good luck.

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;1639926]I have not lived in many places all I can tell everyone is what I have experienced in Thailand particularly in Pattaya as a Asian American born and raised in the States. While growing up I've experience lots of discrimination never in my imagination I thought I would experience the discrimination and prejudice I have experience here. It should be noted that I have met and been told by other Expat living up North that Pattaya is in no way a indication as to what Thailand is all about. I've been told I'm more Thai than some Thais and I've been told by some Thai women " I want you to be 100% Thai ".[/QUOTE]They are correct. Pattaya is not Thailand. In the same way Disneyland is not the USA. I really don't get how guys can live there. I used to enjoy it for a max of three nights when I first moved here, but now find it an unappealing circus of the worst sort. It is completely devoid of culture and has always been considered to be run by the "mafia. ".

As far as your last statement is concerned, most non-P4 P women I meet in BKK who are interested in Farang men absolutely do not want a Western man to be "100% Thai" because they don't want the constraints most Thai men place on Thai women.

Perhaps you might consider taking your kid and getting out of Pattaya. BKK for one has great schools and you can give your kiddo a much better start.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1640136]They are correct. Pattaya is not Thailand. In the same way Disneyland is not the USA. I really don't get how guys can live there. I used to enjoy it for a max of three nights when I first moved here, but now find it an unappealing circus of the worst sort. It is completely devoid of culture and has always been considered to be run by the "mafia. ".

As far as your last statement is concerned, most non-P4 P women I meet in BKK who are interested in Farang men absolutely do not want a Western man to be "100% Thai" because they don't want the constraints most Thai men place on Thai women.

Perhaps you might consider taking your kid and getting out of Pattaya. BKK for one has great schools and you can give your kiddo a much better start.[/QUOTE]I don't expect any or many of you to understand. I've concluded that any / many of you will never be asked to be 100% Thai because you are white. See the equation is this I look like them, they think I'm one of them until I speak, I'm 50% already there now all they have to do is change the other 50%, learn more Thai, I eat Thai food just like Chinese except spicy? Even shit without a sitting toilet, I've been told more than once I am American a walking ATM, it is like winning the lottery? A year ago I tagged along with a girl who has a useless Thai boyfriend who didn't come along to make a short visit to see her parents. Her parents wonder why she does not have money since she works in a popular go go? Once they met me it was love at first sight because of all the stuff I just mention to you. Shit I can see it on their face and I heard them " he looks like us and has money? ".

In the end, what I have also found many girls say they are done with Thai men, that is until they find a western guy, a sponsor, and then when they do not have to work they get the itch to be with their own kind, eat their own food, that is where the Thai guy comes in and sweet talk them into the sack. In Pattaya, I can safely say 9 out of 10 white foreigners I see with Thai women in a relationship came from P4 P, I've been told when they are with me they do not feel that way. I once had a regular who said this to me so I said great jokingly " I can butterfly " she storm off! These days I rarely take the girls to my place on the Darkside of Pattaya because they rather take me to their rooms it's like I'm the Freelancer? I've taken a number of Freelancer from the Bamboo Bar and local Esaan bars near W.S. instead of taking them all the way back to my place just go to their rooms nearby. I feel like a Thai, no A/C banging away on the floor sweating.

As for my son, he is too old now to switch to something else including BKK, that is a mistake I take responsibility for stupid me for not getting the bigger picture earlier! He is so far behind it is not funny because everything I've tried to teach him was undone by his mother.

Enjoy and Thanks for the advice!

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;1640146]I don't expect any or many of you to understand. I've concluded that any / many of you will never be asked to be 100% Thai because you are white. See the equation is this I look like them, they think I'm one of them until I speak, I'm 50% already there now all they have to do is change the other 50%, learn more Thai, I eat Thai food just like Chinese except spicy? Even shit without a sitting toilet, I've been told more than once I am American a walking ATM, it is like winning the lottery? A year ago I tagged along with a girl who has a useless Thai boyfriend who didn't come along to make a short visit to see her parents. Her parents wonder why she does not have money since she works in a popular go go? Once they met me it was love at first sight because of all the stuff I just mention to you. Shit I can see it on their face and I heard them " he looks like us and has money? ".

In the end, what I have also found many girls say they are done with Thai men, that is until they find a western guy, a sponsor, and then when they do not have to work they get the itch to be with their own kind, eat their own food, that is where the Thai guy comes in and sweet talk them into the sack. In Pattaya, I can safely say 9 out of 10 white foreigners I see with Thai women in a relationship came from P4 P, I've been told when they are with me they do not feel that way. I once had a regular who said this to me so I said great jokingly " I can butterfly " she storm off!

As for my son, he is too old now to switch to something else including BKK, that is a mistake I take responsibility for stupid me for not getting the bigger picture earlier! He is so far behind it is not funny because everything I've tried to teach him was undone by his mother.

Enjoy and Thanks for the advice![/QUOTE]LBM, I empathize with you. But it is never too late to make a change or you son. Might be just what you need to get things back on track for the both of you. I know quite a few Asian Americans in BKK and they do quite well in all regards.

Been here for 15 years sir and there have been some amazing highs and some unreal lows, and I am not just talking about women. Not a young dude either, almost 50, but I keep plugging away. "Throw enough shit against the wall and some of it will stick. " Hang in there man!

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1639832]
In 7 years I recall only one time I've seen what may have been an Indian or Arab taking or talking to a NEP street worker. In hundreds of sessions I don't recall a girl ever mentioning those two nationalities, except a few times speaking about them in unfavorable ways. Nor do they tend to stay at the Nana Hotel.

Following is a youtube clip from 10 months ago. If a guy can't see several girls there who are at least a 7, one of us may need to make an appointment with an eye care professional.

[URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mB06h-VyvA[/URL]

With the Nana Hotel not having an open disco or night club at this time, any freelancers who were working there will have had to hit the streets or go elsewhere.[/QUOTE]If you have seen the Arabs and Indians approach the Nana Parking lot girls only once in 7 years I have my doubts about your observational powers. It is a constant parade of them on soi 4 hitting on the girls and on Sukhumvit even more so. And if those girls in the video are Superstars in your eyes, then good for you. I know nearly all of them by sight. And have seen them around for years. The Nana Disco has been deserted or near deserted for years now so what you say is totally irrelevant. We see different things. What can I say. Its not really all that important.

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;1640146]I don't expect any or many of you to understand. I've concluded that any / many of you will never be asked to be 100% Thai because you are white. See the equation is this I look like them, they think I'm one of them until I speak, I'm 50% already there now all they have to do is change the other 50%, learn more Thai, I eat Thai food just like Chinese except spicy? Even shit without a sitting toilet, I've been told more than once I am American a walking ATM, it is like winning the lottery? A year ago I tagged along with a girl who has a useless Thai boyfriend who didn't come along to make a short visit to see her parents. Her parents wonder why she does not have money since she works in a popular go go? Once they met me it was love at first sight because of all the stuff I just mention to you. Shit I can see it on their face and I heard them " he looks like us and has money? ".

In the end, what I have also found many girls say they are done with Thai men, that is until they find a western guy, a sponsor, and then when they do not have to work they get the itch to be with their own kind, eat their own food, that is where the Thai guy comes in and sweet talk them into the sack. In Pattaya, I can safely say 9 out of 10 white foreigners I see with Thai women in a relationship came from P4 P, I've been told when they are with me they do not feel that way...[/QUOTE]Little big man,

Many men travel to Thailand often but do not understand Thai woman. They only see the illusion Thai woman present. First Thai hookers love to say they are done with Thai men. They all say that! But the minute you are not with them they are with Thai men. A Thai woman will always prefer to be with a Thai man than a farang. Farang are just the walking ATM. If you marry a Thai woman you will generally have to go to visit her family every year or time you travel to Thailand. All the family members will expect money. One after the other. They will all act like they love you. Until they day comes when you stop giving everyone money. Then they all hate you. Thailand is such a fantasy or a dream. Don't believe it. When the Thai girl said to you that you could not butterfly. She was talking about you. But she can butterfly all she wants. Moral of the story don't marry a bar girl or a hooker. Have fun and leave.

[QUOTE=DRRonin;1640214]If you have seen the Arabs and Indians approach the Nana Parking lot girls only once in 7 years I have my doubts about your observational powers. It is a constant parade of them on soi 4 hitting on the girls and on Sukhumvit even more so. And if those girls in the video are Superstars in your eyes, then good for you. I know nearly all of them by sight. And have seen them around for years. The Nana Disco has been deserted or near deserted for years now so what you say is totally irrelevant. We see different things. What can I say. Its not really all that important.[/QUOTE]In the vid I posted there are Western & Asian guys, but no Arabs or Indians. That's the norm from my experience, which has been hundreds of visits to the NPL, but I'm not out there everyday, let alone 24 seven. Much more often it's in the early evenings or daytime lineups rather than the late rowdy drunken times of the night, & I generally find my girl within 5 minutes & am gone.

If anyone tries to hassle the girls, of whatever nationality, he may find 20 Thais immediately on his ass. You just don't do that in LOS, just like you don't diss the Royalty. So in hundreds of sessions with ladies from the NPL I've very rarely heard a complaint about them being hassled on the street by foreigners of any nationality. Much more often they've spoken about LE raids, but even that is rare.

Sure lower Sukhumvit near soi 3 to 7 and over to the Grace Hotel is full of Arabs, but that's a totally different scene and crowd from those frequenting the Nana Hotel, Parking Lot & street between the two seven elevens there, as anyone at all familiar with it would know. You can't even compare the two. They are nothing alike.

Let's be clear, no one ever said the girls in the vid are superstars, whatever that is supposed to mean. In the link to the subject on wikipedia I posted earlier it had a pic of Britney Spears, LOL. If you want her, fine, as my preference would be for several ladies in the NPL youtube clip, by far.

And, BTW, in 7 years, even within the past 3, I've seen & had stunners from that spot. Like poster Daddy said, you don't need 100, just one. And when they're not around, I'm quite content with a 7 or 8 rather than a 9 or 10. Or one could keep the lists of total hotties they've met there & banged in their "little black book".

Lately I went to Mit Phan Road in China Town for the first time on a Sunday evening around 9 PM. Thanon Charoen Krung was almost deserted, coming from Hua Lamphong MRT station, so I was afraid Mit Phan might also be like that but fortunately it wasn't. I estimate there were about 50 or 60 women in total sitting or standing on both sides of the street, ranging in age from mid 20's to early 40's. A few may have been older or younger. Most of them were 5's or 6's, only a few 7's here and there. Definitely no stunners but I didn't expect that of course. There weren't many customers and I was the only farang around. And I was totally ignored by most of the girls. They looked away from me or only made eye contact for a very brief moment. I guess they either don't like farangs or they hardly speak any English and are afraid to loose face when they try to make contact.

Finally there was a girl who said 'hello' to me. She spoke just a little bit of English and quoted me 700 Bath (plus 100 for the ST room). She was one of the few 7's in the street but nevertheless I declined and said I wanted to look around some more. She as well as her friend who was sitting next to her said something in Thai that didn't sound very nice, LOL!

I walked over to Phadung Dao Road (Soi Texas). It was much more lively there with Thai and tourists enjoying dinner and drinks. However the alley behind the soi where as I have understood the girls are supposed to be found was almost deserted. I saw maybe 2 or 3 girls in what looked like 'massage' places but I wasn't sure about it so I didn't enter them. Could as well have been normal bars with 'good' girls.

I was just about to give up and wanted to return to Mit Phan when these three girls sitting on the sidewalk of Soi Texas said something in Thai to me. Only one of them spoke a few words English and she wasn't attractive at all but one of her friends was definitely a 7 IMHO. Small, slender body, cute face, a nice smile and in her mid or late 20's I think. So I showed my interest in her and she quoted me 1000 Bath (with some help from her English speaking friend) but when I offered 500 Bath she almost immediately accepted.

She took me to a short time hotel nearby which looked run down but was reasonably clean. The room was 80 Bath including towels (sort of, they were very thin), a piece of soap and one condom. I expected a cold water shower (I hate that, spoiled as I am) but the temperature of the water was not unpleasant, even a little bit warm. The girl was very friendly and she had a nice body. Almost flat tits with firm nipples, a smooth and flat belly without stretch marks, a small but firm butt and no tattoos or piercings. She started off with kissing my chest and giving me a hand job. A blow job was not on the menu I guess but anyway her warm and gentle hand got me hard in a few minutes. I went down on her to DATY and she accepted it with a giggle. I even think she enjoyed it although she didn't show it very much. Her pussy tasted good and was fresh without any odor. As soon as she was wet enough I penetrated her. Unfortunately she was not really tight and it took me quite some time to finish but she didn't complain at all. It didn't help either that she had her eyes closed most of the time. Oh well.

Will I repeat? Meh, maybe. But then I will explore the area at day time I think.

[QUOTE=Mogwai;1640334]Lately I went to Mit Phan Road in China Town for the first time on a Sunday evening around 9 PM. [/QUOTE]

Great report from the parts less visited, thank you!

Don't be shy to proposition the girls around Mit Phan area. The lack of "hellos" is not due to aversion towards foreigners, but perhaps they didn't flag you as a potential customer (fair number of Farang pass by through the area by accident and have no interest in the scene). The action is mostly in triangle bounded by Mit Phan / Maitri Chit / Phantha Chit roads (and alleys within too), some spilling over to Charoen Krung and Soi Texas.

As for the small alleys off Soi Texas, they're more active in the daytime, not much there at night. Actually, Yaowarat is not much of a late-night neighborhood, if you like the low-end scene, Khlong Lot (across from Khao San Road) is better late at night.

[QUOTE=Mogwai;1640334]Will I repeat? Meh, maybe. But then I will explore the area at day time I think.[/QUOTE]After quite a few visits, and maybe 20 sessions, the area is definitely more fun for exploring (the thrill of the hunt), than for actual sex sessions (when it comes to service, the best out there would barely register as mediocre in Pattaya). If the girl was "meh, maybe would repeat", she's probably among the better ones. At 300-600 baht per shot, it's not much of a loss, though.

Some more spots to explore in the area:

Broadway hotel at the start of Soi Texas (staircase right next to the seafood places). This spot specializes in PRC workers, 400 baht and up. Poor attitude, but definitely fun to try something different.

Som tum sellers (young Lao / Issan) with their mats out in front of Hualamphong MRT station exit in the evenings. I keep hearing they're available (and they look like it), but haven't figure out the procedure / cost (despite speaking some Thai). At one time I sat there with an acquaintance with the girl pouring us drinks, but didn't make the move. Does anybody have relevant experience here?

The Saengfah hotelon Maitri Chit, about 100 m in from the circle. Often some lookers there, sitting at the bottom floor (visible from the street).

Slightly out of the area, but there's a great ST hotel with many girls on the premises next to Hua Chiew hospital. 600+ baht per session (300 for the hotel, 300 for the girl, plus I guess extra to be negotiated).

Hello, was researching this hotel that is in sukhumvit due to some suggestions here. There are some rooms with a terrace, perhaps it's a balcony. For additional charge. My stay may be 6 days, wondering if it's really worth it, has anyone used it, how's the view, sliding door access, it it big enough to lounge there or just two people stand? And what are the views, you see the views of other guest's balconies I guess?

Also, I feel like I know the answer already, but if you walk w / a bunch of guys, the working girls will eye you, but if you're walking with a foreigner girl, I'm feeling like they will all show zero interest, eh thinking you're a couple.

[QUOTE=DRRonin;1640214]If you have seen the Arabs and Indians approach the Nana Parking lot girls only once in 7 years I have my doubts about your observational powers. It is a constant parade of them on soi 4 hitting on the girls and on Sukhumvit even more so. And if those girls in the video are Superstars in your eyes, then good for you. I know nearly all of them by sight. And have seen them around for years. The Nana Disco has been deserted or near deserted for years now so what you say is totally irrelevant. We see different things. What can I say. Its not really all that important.[/QUOTE]Ditto. All I see approaching those FL's in the Nana Parking lot are large groups of Indians and Arabs. No observational powers required for this one.

[QUOTE=TomSf;1640235]Little big man,

Many men travel to Thailand often but do not understand Thai woman. They only see the illusion Thai woman present. First Thai hookers love to say they are done with Thai men. They all say that! But the minute you are not with them they are with Thai men. A Thai woman will always prefer to be with a Thai man than a farang. Farang are just the walking ATM. If you marry a Thai woman you will generally have to go to visit her family every year or time you travel to Thailand. All the family members will expect money. One after the other. They will all act like they love you. Until they day comes when you stop giving everyone money. Then they all hate you. Thailand is such a fantasy or a dream. Don't believe it. When the Thai girl said to you that you could not butterfly. She was talking about you. But she can butterfly all she wants. Moral of the story don't marry a bar girl or a hooker. Have fun and leave.[/QUOTE]Good advice on not marrying a hooker. But you seem to be painting all Thai women with the same broad brush. The actions you describe tend to be those of the lowest class of people.

I have met and dated several middle-class Thai women over the years, none in the P4 P scene. NONE has ever asked for money. Ever. I often had to insist that I buy dinner, or whatever.

Last year my GF insisted to pay for several of the hotels we stayed at during our trip to Penang and points south, and part of the food. We do visit her family on occasion, but NOBODY has ever asked for money, and you can tell, after meeting them, that they wouldn't dream of it. And, if one were to ask, they would be the recipient of a new asshole, courtesy of the GF.

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1640507]Good advice on not marrying a hooker. But you seem to be painting all Thai women with the same broad brush. The actions you describe tend to be those of the lowest class of people.

I have met and dated several middle-class Thai women over the years, none in the P4 P scene. NONE has ever asked for money. Ever. I often had to insist that I buy dinner, or whatever.

Last year my GF insisted to pay for several of the hotels we stayed at during our trip to Penang and points south, and part of the food. We do visit her family on occasion, but NOBODY has ever asked for money, and you can tell, after meeting them, that they wouldn't dream of it. And, if one were to ask, they would be the recipient of a new asshole, courtesy of the GF.[/QUOTE]Let's be straight here! We are talking in generalization and that includes me! I think we can all agree that Bangkok being the capital has lot more to offer in terms of education, culture, and a greater variety of people in how they think? It has been point out there are wonderful poor uneducated people upcountry. My in-laws who live in Sukhothai are poor but rich in land seem to be good people. I've been with some wonderful P4 P women in Bangkok and Pattaya and would not trade that experience for anything. People come in all shape and size and live everywhere but Pattaya does seem to bring or let say teach the innocents who come the worse part about Thailand? I've met some politicians and met lawyers and they all seem to have what I've said the " Backward type of thinking " There is one prominent lawyer who I can't mention that I would like to kidnapped, hang him on a crank off Pattaya Bay, strip his skin off and pour a jar of red and black ants all over his body. Women I love in the big picture regardless of the negatives this is the way to die? But the men here in Pattaya the lowest and poor one's, which it seem to be the majority and the one's who are not all seem to have the backward mentality. As far as I'm concern the women be better off putting them in a basket and setting fire to all of them instead of sitting around drinking Leo beer and talking about their birds and fighting chickens. I refer to Thai men like this as Soi Dogs, all waiting around in packs on each Soi waiting for that one dog in heat and fighting to see who is going to tag it?

In the end, everyone is different looking for different things and paying different prices including looks, the conversation goes on and on but whatever one decides just enjoy and nothing stays the same?

Next report my short trip into Bangkok.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;1640458]
After quite a few visits, and maybe 20 sessions, the area is definitely more fun for exploring (the thrill of the hunt), than for actual sex sessions (when it comes to service, the best out there would barely register as mediocre in Pattaya). If the girl was "meh, maybe would repeat", she's probably among the better ones. At 300-600 baht per shot, it's not much of a loss, though.[/QUOTE]Thanks a lot for all the info Crocodilexp! Although the part quoted above is not really encouraging, LOL. For me the thrill of the hunt would be that there's a fair chance to stumble upon a real gem every once in a while. That happens to me quite often in Pattaya but so far much less in Bangkok. But I've only just recently started to (re-) explore Bangkok, after 10 years of visits to Pattaya mainly, so who knows what the future will bring.

Field report day 2: Though billed as opening at 8, doors opened at 8:30, and I was the first customer of the day. Got Ploy, a cute maybe 30 ish lady with immense suction skills. Ploy seated me on a leather loveseat behind a black curtain, removed her shirt and got to work. After about 15 min achieved blastoff, and Ploy swallowed it all to my surprise. 800 b and I gave 200 to Ploy. WIR? Yes, as the early opening is very convenient for getting in some fun before morning meetings.

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1640507]Good advice on not marrying a hooker. But you seem to be painting all Thai women with the same broad brush.
..
Last year my GF insisted to pay for several of the hotels we stayed at during our trip to Penang and points south, and part of the food. We do visit her family on occasion, but NOBODY has ever asked for money, and you can tell, after meeting them, that they wouldn't dream of it. And, if one were to ask, they would be the recipient of a new asshole, courtesy of the GF.[/QUOTE]I do agree with you.

Once my GF paid my my air ticket money (BKK to Guanzhou, China) by her credit card. Later on I try to pay her back several times, but I failed. Same to her relatives too. They don't care what I have. They are happy by just seeing their girl is happy.

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[QUOTE=Mogwai;1640630]For me the thrill of the hunt would be that there's a fair chance to stumble upon a real gem every once in a while. That happens to me quite often in Pattaya but so far much less in Bangkok.[/QUOTE]Same for me, always on the lookout for that hidden gem, a nice surprise. That's why I mostly go for freelancers, and not so much oilies like Tulip. The latter are more consistent with better service, plus usually often better value, but are predictable and there's zero chance of nice surprises. The bars are somewhere in between, but I prefer focusing on sex, not drinking, and there's a bit too much hassle.

In Pattaya, the freelancer setup (Beach Road, walking street, discos) is more conductive for finding hidden gems, easier for girls to get back to your hotel. Using the the short-time rooms can kill the mood, induce time pressure, and make for an entirely un-memorable experience.

Among the Thai hooker areas, I think Khlong Lot area is slightly more conductive to finding hidden gems than Yaowarat area, though neither is all that great.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;1640738]Same for me, always on the lookout for that hidden gem, a nice surprise. That's why I mostly go for freelancers, and not so much oilies like Tulip. The latter are more consistent with better service, plus usually often better value, but are predictable and there's zero chance of nice surprises. The bars are somewhere in between, but I prefer focusing on sex, not drinking, and there's a bit too much hassle.

In Pattaya, the freelancer setup (Beach Road, walking street, discos) is more conductive for finding hidden gems, easier for girls to get back to your hotel. Using the the short-time rooms can kill the mood, induce time pressure, and make for an entirely un-memorable experience.

Among the Thai hooker areas, I think Khlong Lot area is slightly more conductive to finding hidden gems than Yaowarat area, though neither is all that great.[/QUOTE]I'm a freelancer guy as well, mostly streetwalkers. I hardly ever go to the bars anymore. It's like you say, the focus there is on drinking (a lot...) which is not my cup of tea at all. And it's also too much hassle indeed to find the right girl.

Sometimes I barfine a girl from an agogo but usually I only go there for the eye candy, to kill the time and 'to get in the mood' so to speak for the SW that I will pick up later on.

I'm under the impression that more and more SWs in Pattaya seem to prefer the ST rooms. That's why I prefer a hotel close to Beach Road which makes it more easy to persuade them to come to my hotel. 'Time is money' seems to become the credo more and more. When I was in Pattaya earlier this year some of the SWs even said '700 Bath for 1 hour' instead of just '700 Bath' when I asked their price. I was baffled, WTF?

I went to China Town again today. In the alley behind Soi Texas there was only one mamasan with three girls. Two of them were kinda cute and doable and the mamasan quoted me 500 Bath. I think that was a bit too much but I didn't start a negotiation because I wanted to check out the triangle Mit Phan / Maitri Chit / Phantha Chit also. However the quantity and quality over there was much lower than last Sunday evening and I decided to head back to Sukhumvit.

I think I saw the Saengfah hotel on Maitri Chit that you mentioned. Maybe I will check that out next time. However so far I'm not too thrilled about the scene in China Town. And it's a bit too far from Sukhumvit. It's a 10 minute walk to MRT Asok, then a 15 minute ride to Hua Lamphong and then another 10 minute walk. Of course I can take a cab but that takes forever in Bangkok traffic. It's just not worth the hassle I think.

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;1640146]I don't expect any or many of you to understand.[/QUOTE]That's an understatement. How old are you and how are you making a living in Thailand?

When I had just arrived last week here in Bangkok I was quite exhausted from the long trip and after a meal I decided to go to bed. Usually I go out in the streets to find a SW for a first quick shag before I hit the bed but this time I was not in the mood. And it was already 11 PM anyway.

Around 3 AM, I was still awake because I could not fall asleep, somebody was knocking on my hotel door. I'm not an easily intimidated guy (and not the world's greatest hero either, LOL) but people knocking on my door in the middle of the night? That gives me the creeps man.
At first I ignored it but after 20 seconds or so the knocking was repeated and I heard what sounded like a girl's voice say something. So I got up and I looked through the spyhole (is that the correct word?) in the door. It was indeed a girl as far as I could tell, the spyhole gave a slightly distorted view.
I said something like 'what do you want?' but she didn't answer so I opened the door carefully. There was not a guy (or guys) hiding next to the door so that was a relief. The girl was cute. Not very cute but cute enough. She looked normal and she wasn't drunk or under the influence of some other substance. With 'puppy eyes' she looked straight into mine as if she was in love. She said something to me that sounded like a name but I couldn't tell what it was. It was not English or any other language I know and it didn't sound Thai either. She repeated the word a couple of times, still looking me in the eyes lovingly, and then moved a bit forward. This girl was thinking I was somebody else and wanted to come in! I stopped her and said 'who are you?' and 'I don't think I know you' (I was pretty sure I didn't know her). However she didn't seem to understand English. When she tried to enter the room again I slammed the door in her face. Now I know that was not a very nice thing to do but I was not in a good mode at all because I was damn tired and still I couldn't sleep.

I looked through the spyhole again to see what she was doing. She looked really hurt and confused and to be honest I felt a bit sorry for her. She was lingering for a while and then she knocked on the door again and repeated that name or whatever it was she was saying. I didn't open the door again. What's the use if you can't communicate? Then she left and I never saw her again.

Now I wonder what I would have done if I had been in a good mode and not so tired. I would probably have invited her in and maybe we would have ended up in bed doing naughty things. Damn, that might have been the most memorable encounter in my whole life!

[QUOTE=Rjsss212;1640795]That's an understatement. How old are you and how are you making a living in Thailand?[/QUOTE]Read the post the reference was only made regarding skin color. I've been living here for 10 years now and do not making a living here. Has any Thais ever ask you they want you to be 100% Thai?

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;1640817]Read the post the reference was only made regarding skin color. I've been living here for 10 years now and do not making a living here. Has any Thais ever ask you they want you to be 100% Thai?[/QUOTE]So, you're just another retired expat living in Thailand but for some inexplicable reason you can't keep your mouth shut, your temper in check and your nose where it doesn't belong? Or am I missing something?

[QUOTE=PayEmToLeave;1640642]Field report day 2: Though billed as opening at 8, doors opened at 8:30, and I was the first customer of the day. Got Ploy, a cute maybe 30 ish lady with immense suction skills. Ploy seated me on a leather loveseat behind a black curtain, removed her shirt and got to work. After about 15 min achieved blastoff, and Ploy swallowed it all to my surprise. 800 b and I gave 200 to Ploy. WIR? Yes, as the early opening is very convenient for getting in some fun before morning meetings.[/QUOTE]Where was this at? Thanks in advance.

[QUOTE=Mogwai;1640798]
Now I wonder what I would have done if I had been in a good mode and not so tired. I would probably have invited her in and maybe we would have ended up in bed doing naughty things. Damn, that might have been the most memorable encounter in my whole life![/QUOTE]Interesting story, but on the flip side, it could just be a con, the girl could very well have gotten into your room and drugged you out under some pretext while you were having fun and then the men who you didn't see at the door would magically appear (too far fetched?) May be I only saw the negatives in the story LOL (it is also likely that you could have had a memorable night). I hope you brought this to the attention of the reception / security at your hotel.

[QUOTE=Mogwai;1640798]Now I wonder what I would have done if I had been in a good mode and not so tired. I would probably have invited her in and maybe we would have ended up in bed doing naughty things. Damn, that might have been the most memorable encounter in my whole life![/QUOTE]Years ago I was staying in a Soi 4 Hotel of dubious quality, heaven knows why. When going up the lift I was followed by a ladyboy, who got out same floor as me and I was concerned that at first was following me. However stopped to knock on someone else's door thank heavens. Probably an escort called up. LOL or?

I suppose yours would not have been a LB, as I would expect LBs to have better English. LOL Then again escorts should have better English too. Probably some really desperate girl from the street who got past security, hoping for someone to weaken.

[QUOTE=Rjsss212;1640836]So, you're just another retired expat living in Thailand but for some inexplicable reason you can't keep your mouth shut, your temper in check and your nose where it doesn't belong? Or am I missing something?[/QUOTE]Yes you are missing something more than you can imagine. Your response is you are not a expat but just a visitor in Thailand but for some inexplicable reason you can't keep your mouth shut, your temper in check and your nose where it doesn't belong am I missing something?

[QUOTE=JavaMan;1640858]Where was this at? Thanks in advance.[/QUOTE]I was at [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord900][CodeWord900][/url]. The title of my report got chopped.

[QUOTE=JavaMan;1640858]Where was this at? Thanks in advance.[/QUOTE]If I am not mistaking, sounds like [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord900][CodeWord900][/url] BJ Bar Soi 8. Ploy should be sponsored by Hoover (LOL).

[QUOTE=ActionOriented;1640860]Interesting story, but on the flip side, it could just be a con, the girl could very well have gotten into your room and drugged you out under some pretext while you were having fun and then the men who you didn't see at the door would magically appear (too far fetched?) May be I only saw the negatives in the story LOL (it is also likely that you could have had a memorable night). I hope you brought this to the attention of the reception / security at your hotel.[/QUOTE]Yes, in this case I think your scenario is too far fetched. The girl looked very normal and decent and didn't ring any alarm bell. Although that can be part of a well prepared con of course but I doubt it in this case.

Anyway I think they would at least pick a girl who speaks some English and can talk her way into someone's room if it was a con. I think this girl's (temporarily) boy friend stayed in the room prior to me and had left without her knowledge. Why she didn't notice that I was somebody else? Well, don't we 'walking ATMs' all look the same to them? LOL!

And no, I didn't bring this to the attention of the reception / security. Maybe I should have done that but it just wasn't alarming enough to me.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1640962]Years ago I was staying in a Soi 4 Hotel of dubious quality, heaven knows why. When going up the lift I was followed by a ladyboy, who got out same floor as me and I was concerned that at first was following me. However stopped to knock on someone else's door thank heavens. Probably an escort called up. LOL or?

I suppose yours would not have been a LB, as I would expect LBs to have better English. LOL Then again escorts should have better English too. Probably some really desperate girl from the street who got past security, hoping for someone to weaken.[/QUOTE]No she wasn't a LB, I'm sure about that. And she wasn't a desperate SW either I think. Well maybe she was a SW but with her looks (a 7. 5 IMHO) she should be able to attract more than enough customers.

[QUOTE=PayEmToLeave;1640992]I was at The title of my report. got chopped.[/QUOTE]It got censored again. There are W A Y S to get around this.

[QUOTE=Lotus303;1641001]If I am not mistaking, sounds like (censored) BJ Bar Soi 8. Ploy should be sponsored by Hoover (LOL).[/QUOTE]So Doctor or Dr is now a banned word? (Apparently, not as "Dr" does appears in the text.) YOU are referring to Dr BJ Bar, yes? This third party censorship is a PITA. :(

[QUOTE=Mogwai;1640798]
Now I wonder what I would have done if I had been in a good mode and not so tired. I would probably have invited her in and maybe we would have ended up in bed doing naughty things. Damn, that might have been the most memorable encounter in my whole life![/QUOTE]This happens. One night in Pattaya at about 4 am a girl knocked on my hotel room door. She'd been given the wrong room number by her customer. I'd already gotten laid that night and just wanted to sleep so I sent her on her way. A couple of minutes later the phone rings. The receptionist was checking if I'd ordered a girl because her English wasn't too good. Now that's hotel service.

[QUOTE=JavaMan;1641098]So Doctor or Dr is now a banned word? (Apparently, not as "Dr" does appears in the text.) YOU are referring to Dr BJ Bar, yes? This third party censorship is a PITA. :([/QUOTE]Not the good Doc's bar but the other one across the road. A sex Forum and we are not allowed to name bars, hmmmmmmmmmm. Here is a hint, white shirts and pink tartan short skirts so it must be L*S or will that be code names as well.

[QUOTE=JavaMan;1641098]So Doctor or Dr is now a banned word? (Apparently, not as "Dr" does appears in the text.) YOU are referring to Dr BJ Bar, yes? This third party censorship is a PITA. :([/QUOTE]No, I think he's referring to the other well known BJ bar, in Soi 8. The one with the sensitive name that is also used for underaged girls.

[QUOTE=Tobyg;1641113]This happens. One night in Pattaya at about 4 am a girl knocked on my hotel room door. She'd been given the wrong room number by her customer. I'd already gotten laid that night and just wanted to sleep so I sent her on her way. A couple of minutes later the phone rings. The receptionist was checking if I'd ordered a girl because her English wasn't too good. Now that's hotel service.[/QUOTE]Now that's another explanation I didn't think of yet!

I went to Nana Plaza parking lot last night around 10 PM. There were a dozen or so FLs hanging around, LBs not included. I approached three girls who were good looking or just seemed nice to me (it's not all about looks) and they quoted me 1200 TB for a ST. The best looking girl even quoted me 1500 TB. She was still young, around 20 I think, and very cute but also a little bit arrogant so I skipped her. And with the other two it just didn't feel right when I had a chat with them.

When I had just arrived I had already noticed a tiny girl who was having a conversation on her cell phone half way down the parking lot with her back turned towards the road. I couldn't see her face but she looked interesting nonetheless. When she had finished her conversation she turned around, saw me looking at her and gave me a sweet smile right away. She was quite good looking, a 7. 5 I would say and when we started chatting it immediately felt good. I was pretty sure this was a nice girl. Her price was 1200 TB, I accepted and we took off in a cab to my hotel.

In the bright lights of the hotel lobby she still looked good (it can be an unpleasant surprise sometimes) albeit slightly older than I thought. I didn't ask for her age but I think she was in her late 20's or maybe early 30's.

After we both had a shower and had hit the bed she took off her towel right away (she wasn't shy and didn't ask to turn off the lights) and revealed a perfect little body. No scars, no stretch marks, no tattoos, no strange spots, no fat; just perfect. A nice A cup with tiny but firm and stiff nipples, a smooth brown skin, a cute butt and a completely bald sweet little pussy (I get a boner again as I'm writing this down, LOL).

She gave me a long BBBJ and it was OK. Not the best I've ever had but certainly not the worst either. She applied a condom to my dick and mounted me for a cow girl but her pussy was still dry so I said I wanted to lick her first. That was no problem at all and she got wet in just a few minutes.

I entered her and she had the tightest pussy that I have felt in a long time. I don't know what it is but compared to the first couple of years of mongering here in SE Asia most pussies just don't feel that tight anymore. I guess I got used to them or my dick has shrunk.

I banged her in missionary, sideways and finally in doggy and although her tight pussy felt good I could not cum. Increasing the tempo didn't help much and anyway it's not my style to bang the shit of these girls. And more than once they have told me they don't like men who do that. Although I also know there are exceptions, some girls ask you to bang them hard.

Anyway, I often have difficulties to cum when I'm wearing a condom. So I took it off and asked her to blow me again. She happily obliged. This girl was really nice, she didn't complain about anything during the whole session. The only disappointment was she didn't allow me to finish in her mouth but since everything else was fine I can live with that.

I gave her 1400 TB and off she went. Thanks sweetie.

[QUOTE=Mogwai;1641153]No, I think he's referring to the other well known BJ bar, in Soi 8. The one with the sensitive name that is also used for underaged girls.[/QUOTE]As an experiment, [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord900][CodeWord900][/url]. Yes, L O L I T I A S is now a banned word. Wow! Google search found a B L O G listing credit card company's banned words. It has words one would usually associate with this type of censorship. It include some innocuous words as well, like, sleep, drunk and blood. Hmm, not censored, yet!

[QUOTE=Mogwai;1641195]I went to Nana Plaza parking lot last night around 10 PM. There were a dozen or so FLs hanging around, LBs not included. I approached three girls who were good looking or just seemed nice to me (it's not all about looks) and they quoted me 1200 TB for a ST. The best looking girl even quoted me 1500 TB. She was still young, around 20 I think, and very cute but also a little bit arrogant so I skipped her. And with the other two it just didn't feel right when I had a chat with them.

When I had just arrived I had already noticed a tiny girl who was having a conversation on her cell phone half way down the parking lot with her back turned towards the road. I couldn't see her face but she looked interesting nonetheless. When she had finished her conversation she turned around, saw me looking at her and gave me a sweet smile right away. She was quite good looking, a 7. 5 I would say and when we started chatting it immediately felt good. I was pretty sure this was a nice girl. Her price was 1200 TB, I accepted and we took off in a cab to my hotel..[/QUOTE]Mogwai,

Good report. The standard for short time for years has been 1000 baut. Though you can negotiate down to 7-800 sometimes in Bangkok. People wonder why Thailand is getting more expensive? The girl started at 1200 baut. You did not even try and talk her down. She would have easily accepted 1000 baut. Then she leaves and you give her 200 baut on top of that probably because she asked for more money a tip. Eventually, the girls will start to ask for 1400 baut and it just keeps going up from there. The point here is not to argue about 200 baut or 400 baut. It is not about being cheap. It is about keeping the prices low in Thailand. If I pay 1000 baut and she asks for a tip. I always say this is your tip and lightly smack her butt playfully or say tip included in the 1000. They always smile and laugh and leave happy. I do this not to be cheap. But, to live what I preach and do my part to keep prices low. Now one person doing this will not drive prices up. But how about if 100 people do this or a 1000 or 20000? Please, respectively help keep prices low.

[QUOTE=Mogwai;1640761]I'm a freelancer guy as well, mostly streetwalkers. I hardly ever go to the bars anymore. It's like you say, the focus there is on drinking (a lot...) which is not my cup of tea at all. And it's also too much hassle indeed to find the right girl.

Sometimes I barfine a girl from an agogo but usually I only go there for the eye candy, to kill the time and 'to get in the mood' so to speak for the SW that I will pick up later on.

I'm under the impression that more and more SWs in Pattaya seem to prefer the ST rooms. That's why I prefer a hotel close to Beach Road which makes it more easy to persuade them to come to my hotel. 'Time is money' seems to become the credo more and more. When I was in Pattaya earlier this year some of the SWs even said '700 Bath for 1 hour' instead of just '700 Bath' when I asked their price. I was baffled, WTF?

I went to China Town again today...[/QUOTE]Mogwai,

I am in Pattaya now and never heard a girls say short time for one hour. Are you Japanese? I have noticed Japanese love spending money here and if the girl thinks you are Japanese she will try to get you to pay more.

Now short time in 2014 does appear to be an hour starting when you two hit the bed. But, I will say Thailand is becoming different. If I am pumping a girl for more than 7 minutes I see girls starting to wonder when I will finish. If I go past 10 minutes they start to ask me when I am going to cum. So lets say its an hour. What does one hour include is a good question? What you think it includes and what she think may be two different things. Of all the girls I have been with in Pattaya only one let me just pound away and not start to complain or give me the looks to finish.

Last night I approached this delicious looking young girl who was standing near the entrance to Thermae. She was quite young (very early 20's I think), had minimal English and acted a little bit shy but nevertheless I could tell she already had some experience with farang / customers. Her name was Em (or Am or M like in the Bond movies, whatever).

An older SW who was standing next to her acted as translator but later on acted more like a mamasan or even pimpette. She told me it was the girl's first day (yeah right, I saw her yesterday already) and she would like to receive 2000 TB for a ST. Now this girl was a solid 8, at the least, but that is of course a ridiculous price for a SW. After some negotiation I got her down to 1500 TB but when I was about to leave with the girl the 'pimpette' suddenly said she wanted to be paid in advance. I wasn't already too thrilled about this 'pimpette' and this was the final alarm bell. So I called it off and walked away.

Does anyone else have experience with this girl? She's really hot, some guys will even call her gorgeous I think but for me she's somewhere between hot and gorgeous.

I spent 5 days in Patong and now enjoying some real mongering in BKK. This is what mongering is all about. Tons of pussy begging to be fucked, Soi Cowboy was fun, plenty of everything, drink sluts, hotties, LBs (way too good looking too), much more pussy than saugage on the street. I found the mst hot women in Cowboy 2 but many of the best lookers were drink sluts.

After a long barhop w my bro we ended up at a mobile bar on Sukhumvit. There I met 2 decent looking ladies ready to fuck my brains out and they did exactly that, full on DOUBLE GFE in a ST hotel for close to 2 hours. It was a great session, these ladies are just heaven sent, thank you God.

These 2 20 somethings were on me like I was on them. One lady was screaming while riding me the other kissing me. My kissing partner and I could not believe how hot and sexy the one riding was, bucking, head shaking, screaming in estacy.

While this is happening I'm thinking this one is worth another 1500 b tomorrow night. What a show!

I'll be hunting the next 2 days and nights in BKK and it is sweet and easy. I love this place, tons of hotties and action. Too much of a good thing is what we have, right here, right now.

Just chipping in w / some fresh info round 2 is about to start.

Cheers.

[QUOTE=Mogwai;1641459]Last night I approached this delicious looking young girl who was standing near the entrance to Thermae. She was quite young (very early 20's I think), had minimal English and acted a little bit shy but nevertheless I could tell she already had some experience with farang / customers. Her name was Em (or Am or M like in the Bond movies, whatever).

An older SW who was standing next to her acted as translator but later on acted more like a mamasan or even pimpette. She told me it was the girl's first day (yeah right, I saw her yesterday already) and she would like to receive 2000 TB for a ST. Now this girl was a solid 8, at the least, but that is of course a ridiculous price for a SW. After some negotiation I got her down to 1500 TB but when I was about to leave with the girl the 'pimpette' suddenly said she wanted to be paid in advance. I wasn't already too thrilled about this 'pimpette' and this was the final alarm bell. So I called it off and walked away.

Does anyone else have experience with this girl? She's really hot, some guys will even call her gorgeous I think but for me she's somewhere between hot and gorgeous.[/QUOTE]Mogwai,

In case you are referring to the short and cute one who stands just opposite to the exit of Sofitel. I had seen her approached by a guy and then a fat matured one came and asked for 2 baht. I had crossed by then. When I returned in 10 minutes to the hotel she was gone. Have seen her twice in the evening. On Tuesday and Monday night.

[QUOTE=Mogwai;1641459]Last night I approached this delicious looking young girl who was standing near the entrance to Thermae. She was quite young (very early 20's I think), had minimal English and acted a little bit shy but nevertheless I could tell she already had some experience with farang / customers. Her name was Em (or Am or M like in the Bond movies, whatever).

An older SW who was standing next to her acted as translator but later on acted more like a mamasan or even pimpette. She told me it was the girl's first day (yeah right, I saw her yesterday already) and she would like to receive 2000 TB for a ST. Now this girl was a solid 8, at the least, but that is of course a ridiculous price for a SW. After some negotiation I got her down to 1500 TB but when I was about to leave with the girl the 'pimpette' suddenly said she wanted to be paid in advance. I wasn't already too thrilled about this 'pimpette' and this was the final alarm bell. So I called it off and walked away.

Does anyone else have experience with this girl? She's really hot, some guys will even call her gorgeous I think but for me she's somewhere between hot and gorgeous.[/QUOTE]That was a good call not paying upfront. I have never had a good experience paying up front in Thailand. Once they have you money they start with the rules. You can't do this that, only one position, hurry up cum now. Ect. Much better to walk.

[QUOTE=Socker;1641501]I spent 5 days in Patong and now enjoying some real mongering in BKK.

After a long barhop w my bro we ended up at a mobile bar on Sukhumvit. There I met 2 decent looking ladies ready to fuck my brains out and they did exactly that, full on DOUBLE GFE in a ST hotel for close to 2 hours. It was a great session

Cheers.[/QUOTE]Can you share more about the ladies and bars in Patong?
In Bangkok, I usually check out the scene around soi 21, soi comboy, and the many soi 4-11 bars / clubs. Never visited Patong. Heard too many stories of all the BS scams at some of the bars.

I agree, one can get lucky at the outdoor little street bar set ups. I met a gem at one last year right outside of soi cowboy. I wasn't about to bar fine an overpriced hottie in the gogo (just went in to look and have some drinks). After checking 3-4 gogos I left to go by soi 11 and I ran into a pretty and sexy lady at one of the little bars right between soi cowboy and sukhumvit. Small talk was good. That led to a few rounds of drinks and off we went to my hotel for 1500 LT (and 300 barfine). The next afternoon I told her to come back again. She went to change and came back a few hours later. We agreed on no barfine for the second day, only the donation for her (it was her sisters mobile bar). 2nd day was just as good as the first. Lost contact with this one afterwards. I guess she went back to the farm.

[QUOTE=PipeLayer99;1641569]Can you share more about the ladies and bars in Patong?
In Bangkok, I usually check out the scene around soi 21, soi comboy, and the many soi 4-11 bars / clubs. Never visited Patong. Heard too many stories of all the BS scams at some of the bars.[/QUOTE]Pipe; I think he's referring to Patong which is an entertainment area on the island of Phuket in southern Thailand, and you're thinking about Patpong which is an entertainment venue in BKK; 2 different places entirely.

Hello brother mongers,

I will be in thailand for a few days on a golfing holiday. I need information on some top class escort agencies (CIS, Central Asian, south east Asian). Can any of the seniors PM me the details. I will be reaching Bangkok on Saturday morning.

Thank you in advance.

[QUOTE=Romeo2882;1641639]Hello brother mongers,

I will be in thailand for a few days on a golfing holiday. I need information on some top class escort agencies (CIS, Central Asian, south east Asian). Can any of the seniors PM me the details. I will be reaching Bangkok on Saturday morning.

Thank you in advance.[/QUOTE]To Romeo2882.

Just hope for good sunny weather it rain every day when I was there a few week ago, you don't want to play golf in the rain but you can also do some indoor sport in your hotel room.

Fast eddie 48.

[QUOTE=Romeo2882;1641639]Hello brother mongers,

I will be in thailand for a few days on a golfing holiday. I need information on some top class escort agencies (CIS, Central Asian, south east Asian). Can any of the seniors PM me the details. I will be reaching Bangkok on Saturday morning.

Thank you in advance.[/QUOTE][URL]http://bangkokescortsdir.com/[/URL] . Bangkokgold is highly rated by most.

You guys hear this all the time, but I'm going to Thailand in a few months so, been researching the terms here.

For the longest time I couldn't figure some of it out.

Here's what I know:

ST = short time.

LT = long time.

LB= Lady Boy.

I'm trying to figure out what this Soi is, is that food? Soy sauce?

All these weird names of places are just spinning my head, I guess a map with these places pointed out would be great if anyone has one.

I'm coming from the states, Las Vegas specifically, but that doesn't matter. My plans are to be in Bankcock and Pattaya.

Do you actually go into the beach waters clean?

BT. Baht currency at $1 USA for $33 Thailand Baht at this writing right?

What are the exchange fees for this? Do they take regular dollars? I know to go to Nana plaza, is a shopping mall with chicks or sex mall?

[QUOTE=Romeo2882;1641639]Hello brother mongers,

I will be in thailand for a few days on a golfing holiday. I need information on some top class escort agencies (CIS, Central Asian, south east Asian). Can any of the seniors PM me the details. I will be reaching Bangkok on Saturday morning.

Thank you in advance.[/QUOTE]You'll need to pony up for a paid membership if you expect anybody to PM you.

Has anybody got a HJ or more from from a massage offered at the hotels? Hoe strict are the hotels on this?

Thanks.

[QUOTE=PipeLayer99;1641569]Can you share more about the ladies and bars in Patong?
In Bangkok, I usually check out the scene around soi 21, soi comboy, and the many soi 4-11 bars / clubs. Never visited Patong. Heard too many stories of all the BS scams at some of the bars.

I agree, one can get lucky at the outdoor little street bar set ups. I met a gem at one last year right outside of soi cowboy. I wasn't about to bar fine an overpriced hottie in the gogo (just went in to look and have some drinks). After checking 3-4 gogos I left to go by soi 11 and I ran into a pretty and sexy lady at one of the little bars right between soi cowboy and sukhumvit. Small talk was good. That led to a few rounds of drinks and off we went to my hotel for 1500 LT (and 300 barfine). The next afternoon I told her to come back again. She went to change and came back a few hours later. We agreed on no barfine for the second day, only the donation for her (it was her sisters mobile bar). 2nd day was just as good as the first. Lost contact with this one afterwards. I guess she went back to the farm.[/QUOTE]

I stayed at the Horizon Beach Resort in Patong, Phuket. The island is nice w / some spectacular sightseeing. Patong is full of tourist families (wall to wall people) and p4p is a small part of the scene.

If you like cbjs and no GFE w / high prices then you'll like Patong.

Karon Beach was the best thing about Patong IMO. I'll put a TR in the Phuket section soon. A few pics of Karon Beach and one pic near Ko Phi Phi.

Oh, if you want to see the current destruction of these beautiful locales just take a day tour to Bamboo Island, Ko Phi Phi. The boat operators are a dropping a thousand achors a day on these delicate fish habitats and guess what? No fish. The tour was not an enjoyable day for me, what a shame.

[QUOTE=Romeo2882;1641639]Hello brother mongers,

I will be in thailand for a few days on a golfing holiday. I need information on some top class escort agencies (CIS, Central Asian, south east Asian). Can any of the seniors PM me the details. I will be reaching Bangkok on Saturday morning.

Thank you in advance.[/QUOTE]There is a separate forum for escort agencies. Did you check that? Or do us senior members have to order one for you, bring her to you and assist you with putting your dick in her as well?

Come on! Show some effort!

[QUOTE=TwoTimeTed;1641727]You guys hear this all the time, but I'm going to Thailand in a few months so, been researching the terms here.

For the longest time I couldn't figure some of it out.

Here's what I know:

ST = short time.

LT = long time.

LB= Lady Boy.[/QUOTE]So far, so good!

[QUOTE=TwoTimeTed;1641727]
I'm trying to figure out what this Soi is, is that food? Soy sauce?[/QUOTE]

Soi is the Thai word for "side-street" or "alley". Only the main streets have proper names and the streets more or less perpendicular to this main street are numbered "Soi 1", "Soi 3', "Soi 5", . . . on one side and "Soi 2", "Soi 4", "Soi 6", . . . on the other side. To make it totally easy on you, some have both a proper name and (one or more) "Soi" numbers. Yes, This is Thailand (aka "TIT")

[QUOTE=TwoTimeTed;1641727]All these weird names of places are just spinning my head, I guess a map with these places pointed out would be great if anyone has one.[/QUOTE]

Google maps is quite good. Your hotel in Bangkok will probably have a free map for you too. Many bookshops sell Bangkok street maps. Many years ago I bought one that has a plastic cover. Very handy when it rains! Now I just download an updated map for my hand-held GPS.

[QUOTE=TwoTimeTed;1641727]I'm coming from the states, Las Vegas specifically, but that doesn't matter. My plans are to be in Bankcock and Pattaya.[/QUOTE]

It's Bangkok. The official name is "Krung Thep Mahanakhon Amon Rattanakosin Mahinthara Ayuthaya Mahadilok Phop Noppharat Ratchathani Burirom Udomratchaniwet Mahasathan Amon Piman Awatan Sathit Sakkathattiya Witsanukam Prasit" and Thai people will shorten that to "Krung Thep" or "City of Angels". Bangkok means "Garden of Wild Plums". I think both names are very well chosen! (wink wink).

[QUOTE=TwoTimeTed;1641727]Do you actually go into the beach waters clean?[/QUOTE]The Pattaya beach water may look clean but isn't.

[QUOTE=TwoTimeTed;1641727]
BT. Baht currency at $1 USA for $33 Thailand Baht at this writing right?

What are the exchange fees for this? Do they take regular dollars?[/QUOTE]The exchange booths don't charge fees. Only change the bare minimum at the airport as they have the worst exchange rates. Perhaps 100 or 200 USD only. Crisp new 100 USD bills get you better rates than old crumpled small bills.

[QUOTE=TwoTimeTed;1641727] I know to go to Nana plaza, is a shopping mall with chicks or sex mall?[/QUOTE]Nana Entertainment Plaza is a court-yard with three floors of bars and clubs. For a newbie it can be quite overwhelming and I suggest you first try Soi Cowboy which is somewhat more "friendly" and has only a limited number of LB's (unless you go into the "Cock-a-too" bar) prowling around. Suzi Wong is a good start. The level of hustling is minimal. As from 10 PM there are nude shows and there are all types of girls. If you're in for a LT experience, aim for about 3000 to 3500 baht. They will "smell" you are new, so they will start higher. Just smile and stand your ground.

Have fun!

Wolvenvacht, you are too good for this world to answer all these questions in someone's first post.

TwoTimeTed, please RTFF. What that means? Look in the Abbreviations list.

It takes a lot of time and effort to figure out how the P4 P scene works but that's exactly what this forum is for, so I repeat: RTFF. And yes, that means reading reading reading page after page after page and using Google and Google Maps quite a lot to look things up. So lock yourself up for a couple of days; believe me it will be worth the effort. Come to Thailand prepared otherwise it will be a big disappointment.

Girls don't want to say short time is 1 hour because some guys will hold them to it. Many times it takes 10 minute to complete the job.

Its not really much fun for them having a fat bald sweaty man all over them.

[QUOTE=Mogwai;1641845]Wolvenvacht, you are too good for this world to answer all these questions in someone's first post.

TwoTimeTed, please RTFF. What that means? Look in the Abbreviations list.

It takes a lot of time and effort to figure out how the P4 P scene works but that's exactly what this forum is for, so I repeat: RTFF. And yes, that means reading reading reading page after page after page and using Google and Google Maps quite a lot to look things up. So lock yourself up for a couple of days; believe me it will be worth the effort. Come to Thailand prepared otherwise it will be a big disappointment.[/QUOTE]Mogwai,

I may be green on this forum but I have experience on the USA board. I have RTFF and getting prepared is exactly what I'm doing. I just did not get some of the lingo and had to make a post on it, so I did. The abbreviations will drown a newbie on this board but I understand its a work in progress, I get it.

I just needed a couple of shortcuts on a couple of items and thank the guy that responded, if you want to make life hard on others I guess you can do that, but you can't save all the women for yourself, I'm a coming soon!

[QUOTE=Romeo2882;1641639]Hello brother mongers,

I will be in thailand for a few days on a golfing holiday. I need information on some top class escort agencies (CIS, Central Asian, south east Asian). Can any of the seniors PM me the details. I will be reaching Bangkok on Saturday morning.

Thank you in advance.[/QUOTE]Have you even bothered to look at the forum devoted to exactly the question you just asked? Just askin'.

SW4.

[QUOTE=Mogwai;1641459]Last night I approached this delicious looking young girl who was standing near the entrance to Thermae. She was quite young (very early 20's I think), had minimal English and acted a little bit shy but nevertheless I could tell she already had some experience with farang / customers. Her name was Em (or Am or M like in the Bond movies, whatever).

An older SW who was standing next to her acted as translator but later on acted more like a mamasan or even pimpette. She told me it was the girl's first day (yeah right, I saw her yesterday already) and she would like to receive 2000 TB for a ST. Now this girl was a solid 8, at the least, but that is of course a ridiculous price for a SW. After some negotiation I got her down to 1500 TB but when I was about to leave with the girl the 'pimpette' suddenly said she wanted to be paid in advance. I wasn't already too thrilled about this 'pimpette' and this was the final alarm bell. So I called it off and walked away.

Does anyone else have experience with this girl? She's really hot, some guys will even call her gorgeous I think but for me she's somewhere between hot and gorgeous.[/QUOTE]I have no way of knowing if this is the same girl but I barfined a girl that looks just like this one (same description, cutie, same name, ect.) at the beginning of the week from Spankys.

She's cute and nice body but she's way too professional (lying on the price of the short time rooms) and I totally regretted not choosing another one.

Of course it sounds strange you met her on the street when I found her in Spankys but the description seems to match.

[QUOTE=Daddy07;1641574]Pipe; I think he's referring to Patong which is an entertainment area on the island of Phuket in southern Thailand, and you're thinking about Patpong which is an entertainment venue in BKK; 2 different places entirely.[/QUOTE]Yeah you're right. I must have been half asleep when I read his post. LOL.

[QUOTE=Socker;1641801]I stayed at the Horizon Beach Resort in Patong, Phuket. The island is nice w / some spectacular sightseeing. Patong is full of tourist families (wall to wall people) and p4p is a small part of the scene.
If you like cbjs and no GFE w / high prices then you'll like Patong.
Karon Beach was the best thing about Patong IMO. I'll put a TR in the Phuket section soon. A few pics of Karon Beach and one pic near Ko Phi Phi.
Oh, if you want to see the current destruction of these beautiful locales just take a day tour to Bamboo Island, Ko Phi Phi. The boat operators are a dropping a thousand achors a day on these delicate fish habitats and guess what? No fish. The tour was not an enjoyable day for me, what a shame.[/QUOTE]Thanks Socker. Good info.

Also good that you found and enjoyed the 2 cuties on your trip.

Looks like we are getting requests for info from newbies lately. While some of us tell the poster to RTFF while others come to the rescue. I think it is time to start a new thread called Newbie Questions so that some of us don't get irritated whille others can respond to them out of their goodness of heart.

So Jackson, how about it.

If you are looking for a general map they use to have them in the area where you get your luggage and the money changers are located. They are just basic maps but do show the main streets and some of the points of interest. Now this was a couple of years ago so might have changed now.

[QUOTE=Steve7777;1641869]Girls don't want to say short time is 1 hour because some guys will hold them to it. Many times it takes 10 minute to complete the job.

Its not really much fun for them having a fat bald sweaty man all over them.[/QUOTE]Not a fat bald sweaty man but your first sentence sums up exactly why I go to oilies. I am buying a block of time and can pop as many times as I want during that time. Guys often complain about the costs of P4 P in places like the US. But in the US when you buy an hour you get an hour. With a GoGo gal if you shoot in 10 min you are done and as dudes from this board have observed most guys are in ST hotels for less than 20 min and remember that includes showers before and after.

[QUOTE=Duniawala;1642014]Looks like we are getting requests for info from newbies lately. While some of us tell the poster to RTFF while others come to the rescue. I think it is time to start a new thread called Newbie Questions so that some of us don't get irritated whille others can respond to them out of their goodness of heart.

So Jackson, how about it.[/QUOTE]Good suggestion but I for one do not want one. Maybe Jackson can make a notation to Newbie when signing up to check the particular thread to do some or little research? " Highly suggested before asking Questions familiarize yourself with the Forum and Threads as to not get a negative response from some Senior Member " History dictates the future? And so far creating new thread each time someone gets irritated has not been the solution. The more that is added the more confusing Newbie gets by looking at the current format so they ask Questions to cut through the paperwork?

Vote: Yes = 1.

No = 1.

[QUOTE=Calvito;1641755]Has anybody got a HJ or more from from a massage offered at the hotels? Hoe strict are the hotels on this?

Thanks.[/QUOTE]

My impression is that BKK hotels are more into money than morals, and for in-room massage sex is quite common. But as all kinds of sex services are widely available all over BKK, I have never bothered to ask (the also overpriced) massage girls in hotels there.

In general, with some carefully worded hints from you (and a visible indicator that you need a relief after the massage is finished), such services are normally offered by the girl if this is on her menu. If you take your time for some small talk before starting, and make enough signs of pleasure during massage, the ice should be sufficiently broken for her to suggest what's available at the end.

If she is not into this, she will anyway be used to clients getting aroused, that's nothing to be ashamed of even if the deal is strictly massage. A lady in Moscow even made a point of it for me to watch, when each time she squeezed my thigh muscles, the tent pole under the towel grew taller. We had a great laugh about it, but nothing sexual happened other than she gave me a short kiss and a slap on my butt as she left the room.

In some other countries I have had great success through this subtle approach: HJ, CBJ, BBBJ, BBBJTCWS, CFS, and, believe it or not, even landed a handful of freebies this way! My now regular GF in Jakarta is one example, she did not mention any extra services, nor asked for any extra charge, but simply drifted on into steaming sex and a genuine GFE after a massage session. I moved to another hotel next morning, in order to continue our relationship without the scrutinizing eyes of her manager. Otherwise it probably would have cost her the job.

One trick worth sharing: Ask her early on how much guests normally tip her. If she is into extras, she will probably mention somehow that there are two leagues of tippers. Then the rest is plain sailing.

Monger on!

-Peff.

[QUOTE=Duniawala;1642014]Looks like we are getting requests for info from newbies lately. While some of us tell the poster to RTFF while others come to the rescue. I think it is time to start a new thread called Newbie Questions so that some of us don't get irritated whille others can respond to them out of their goodness of heart.

So Jackson, how about it.[/QUOTE]If the newbies did their home work we not need it.

It's all there if they go read and look.

After 2 weeks in Pattaya, 2 weeks BKK:

Bamboo massage: 3000 baht, great massage +sex.

Beergarden: beerbarbeauties, wow.

Thermae: loved the atmosphere, but. Strange place, definitely worth a visit.

Dr BJs bar: went there 4 times, loved it; 700 bht for BJ and you can have sex too (for more baht of course).

Nana: cold, old, . Only went to Baccara (surrounded by Koreans / Japanese people), where I saw the most beautiful girls of my entire trip.

Eden club: had a threesome, professional, not bad.

Aloft hotel: I recommend it!

Sofitel Sukhumvit: I recommend it even more but it's 2 x the price of Aloft.

Disco levels: recommended (and opposite.

Oscars: up-level night club / bar / resto with niice girls.

Soi Cowboy: next year.

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;1640146]I've concluded that any / many of you will never be asked to be 100% Thai because you are white. See the equation is this I look like them, they think I'm one of them until I speak, I'm 50% already there now all they have to do is change the other 50%, learn more Thai, I eat Thai food just like Chinese except spicy?

Once they met me it was love at first sight because of all the stuff I just mention to you. Shit I can see it on their face and I heard them " he looks like us and has money? ".[/QUOTE][QUOTE=LittleBigMan;1640590]Let's be straight here! We are talking in generalization and that includes me! I think we can all agree that Bangkok being the capital has lot more to offer in terms of education, culture, and a greater variety of people in how they think? It has been point out there are wonderful poor uneducated people upcountry.

People come in all shape and size and live everywhere but Pattaya does seem to bring or let say teach the innocents who come the worse part about Thailand?

In the end, everyone is different looking for different things and paying different prices including looks, the conversation goes on and on but whatever one decides just enjoy and nothing stays the same?
[/QUOTE]Hi LittleBigMan,

I am an Asian American as well. However, unlike you, I was not born & grew up there. I was an immigrant. Anyway, I got my education, worked, and lived in both sides for about 50%:50% of my life time, which made me now 50% Asian & 50% American, I guess.

From your posts, I can see that you're 100% American, but the Thai people want you to be 100% Thai because of your Asian descent.

So, in the end, you're be stuck in a situation that you don't get the privileges which a Farang usually receives from the Thai people, nor do you get the privileges of being accepted as a Thai.

But you have to remember that the thing is, the US is a melting pot and a nation of immigrants, and Thailand is not.

In the US, you can decide to be what you want to be. You can either choose to be melt into the mot and integrate into the society as an American, or you can also choose to live in a bubble in a specific community happily as a Thai, a Chinese, a Japanese, etc. It's your call to be an insider (an American) or an outsider (non-American).

On the other hand, in most Asian countries, it is usually the majority of the local people who decide what you can be. For instance, guys with a Western face will always be seen as a foreigner, a farang, an outsider. Even if they were born, grew up, live in Thailand, and speak Thai as their mother tongue, they will never be fully accepted as a Thai.

By the same token, in your case, you look like a Thai ('cause you're Asian) to them, so they automatically see you as a Thai, a local, an insider.

You see what I mean?

They can't understand and accept the idea that a White guy can be 100% Thai or that an Asian guy can be 100% American. It's not in their mindset.

I am not judging. It's just my observation.

In your case, you seem to bothered by the fact that they actually see you as a Thai. You don't want to be seen as a Thai. You want to be seen as a Farang and you always stay away of anything that may make you Thai.

I can somehow relate you on this one. There was a time in my life that I really wanted to have a Western face in order to make my life easier, in both sides.

Lastly, in my opinion, Pattaya is like Las Vegas somehow.

North American pals here, let me explain it this way.

What you see and experience in Las Vegas represent nothing about the real US, and living in Las Vegas surely won't be like living in LOS Angeles, New York, Toronto, or Vancouver.

Even if you live in New York for your whole life, for example, you still don't see the whole picture of it.

What you see and experience depend on where you live, your lifestyle, your hobby, and so many other factors.

By the same token, the above statements applies to every corner in this world.

Anyway, good luck and happy mongering, everyone!

Or is it still raining everyday? A lot or just a short downpour? Can anyone please let me know?

Thanks in advance.

[QUOTE=Romeo2882;1641639]Hello brother mongers,

I will be in thailand for a few days on a golfing holiday. I need information on some top class escort agencies (CIS, Central Asian, south east Asian). Can any of the seniors PM me the details. I will be reaching Bangkok on Saturday morning.

Thank you in advance.[/QUOTE]You can also get outcall from many massage shops for half the price or less than escort agencies. Just google mango massage, bamboo massage, snow white massage, cherry massage, all star massage, ez massage, apple massage, addict massage, dream heaven massage, pretty massage, and thanks massage for pictures and rates.

[QUOTE=Cosmic30;1642481]

Nana: cold, old, . Only went to Baccara (surrounded by Koreans / Japanese people), where I saw the most beautiful girls of my entire trip.

Soi Cowboy: next year.[/QUOTE]Unless you got the name of the place wrong, you appear to have visited soi Cowboy. Bacarra is in soi Cowboy and not Nana Entertainment Plaza.

[QUOTE=TwoTimeTed;1641911]Mogwai,

I may be green on this forum but I have experience on the USA board. I have RTFF and getting prepared is exactly what I'm doing. I just did not get some of the lingo and had to make a post on it, so I did. The abbreviations will drown a newbie on this board but I understand its a work in progress, I get it.

I just needed a couple of shortcuts on a couple of items and thank the guy that responded, if you want to make life hard on others I guess you can do that, but you can't save all the women for yourself, I'm a coming soon![/QUOTE]Fair enough. Now you're giving some background information that you'd better had given in your first post. Then I might have replied less 'agressive'.

And don't worry, I won't save all the women for myself. Except for some gems, LOL!

Thanks for the info, I was guessing what you said that extras would be available but probably double of you can find outside, but there is always that extra arausal if it comes from a "legit" place.

[QUOTE=Peff13;1642200]My impression is that BKK hotels are more into money than morals, and for in-room massage sex is quite common. But as all kinds of sex services are widely available all over BKK, I have never bothered to ask (the also overpriced) massage girls in hotels there.

In general, with some carefully worded hints from you (and a visible indicator that you need a relief after the massage is finished), such services are normally offered by the girl if this is on her menu. If you take your time for some small talk before starting, and make enough signs of pleasure during massage, the ice should be sufficiently broken for her to suggest what's available at the end.

If she is not into this, she will anyway be used to clients getting aroused, that's nothing to be ashamed of even if the deal is strictly massage. A lady in Moscow even made a point of it for me to watch, when each time she squeezed my thigh muscles, the tent pole under the towel grew taller. We had a great laugh about it, but nothing sexual happened other than she gave me a short kiss and a slap on my butt as she left the room.

In some other countries I have had great success through this subtle approach: HJ, CBJ, BBBJ, BBBJTCWS, CFS, and, believe it or not, even landed a handful of freebies this way! My now regular GF in Jakarta is one example, she did not mention any extra services, nor asked for any extra charge, but simply drifted on into steaming sex and a genuine GFE after a massage session. I moved to another hotel next morning, in order to continue our relationship without the scrutinizing eyes of her manager. Otherwise it probably would have cost her the job.

One trick worth sharing: Ask her early on how much guests normally tip her. If she is into extras, she will probably mention somehow that there are two leagues of tippers. Then the rest is plain sailing.

Monger on!

-Peff.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Mogwai;1641845]Wolvenvacht, you are too good for this world to answer all these questions in someone's first post.

TwoTimeTed, please RTFF. What that means? Look in the Abbreviations list.

It takes a lot of time and effort to figure out how the P4 P scene works but that's exactly what this forum is for, so I repeat: RTFF. And yes, that means reading reading reading page after page after page and using Google and Google Maps quite a lot to look things up. So lock yourself up for a couple of days; believe me it will be worth the effort. Come to Thailand prepared otherwise it will be a big disappointment.[/QUOTE]Yes Wolvenvacht is a good guy. I would have advised the guy to try Google search first up to find out very basic things like "what is a Soi?" Google is always your friend. Often guys use American jargon on this forum and I have to look up Google to find out what it means, e. G. "my bad", "poontang", etc. These are things never heard of back home.

I think "RTFF" is greatly over used though. You can always ignore questions that are not interesting to you personally and let someone else answer. There is plenty of tangent stuff not even related to mongering on this forum.

To Duniawala, no we don't need a new thread for newbie questions. I would rather have all non-mongering topics moved to another thread. I always thought the general Thread was for that, but this is not generally followed.

Save your RTFF for experienced posters who should know how to do all the searches for info, or are expected to read the forum regularly.

Summary report of my first Bangkok visit. I'm on a limited budget and will be traveling for another five weeks, so I didn't try quite as much as I would have on a shorter vacation.

Day 1.

Kasalong blowjob bar. Picked a pretty cute young girl, which might have been a mistake, as the blowjob was fairly unremarkable, no attempt at deep throat (and I'm quite average) and she pulled her mouth away after the first spurt.

Not what I had expected in a dedicated BJ bar.

4/10 (might be too generous considering the venue).

Bought a few lady drinks in bars around Nana. Plus for a cute, smiling, skinny girl in Angelwitch (she pulled me in). But I was too tired the first night for anything more.

Day 2.

Took the girl from Angelwitch back to my hotel for ST. Became rather more business like on the way there, but was still decent. Shared shower and DFK. She was out the door after the first shot though.

Barfine 1000, ST 2000.

6/10 (I feel like I might be too generous again, maybe you should just subtract a point from all my scores if you're a mongering veteran).

Day 3.

Bell at Cherry Massage. Now things were picking up. 90 minutes, two shots (anal on offer but we skipped it) and an excellent and very thorough neck to toes, front and back oil massage in the middle.

Poor English but she was a very nice and funny girl through body language and laughs. Reminded me a little of a Russian girl I had in Greece who was also adorably funny with barely any words spoken.

8/10 (massage was a 9).

At night there was some kind of holiday, and I should probably have known better than taking a fairly drunk bar girl back to my hotel. Outrageous 1000 baht barfine (claimed it was because of the holiday), plus 1500 to her, and in my room she was trying to weasel out of having sex. I told her she could leave if she didn't want the money. Obviously she didn't pick that option.

Not a bad fuck for a drunk girl really. I've had worse one night stands. No proper kissing though, but I didn't care when I can see that it's just going to be a lackluster release anyway.

5/10.

Day 4.

No. 1 at Dr BJ Nuru Massage, for two hours in the VIP room. She's a bit chubby and average face, but I was in the mood for curves and I liked her smile in the lineup.

Very friendly girl with pretty good English, and we talked a lot. Nice showers, nuru massage feels great (almost a tad too slippery though, not much friction) and in the bed she was extremely eager to please. She tried very hard to make me come a second time, which I unfortunately couldn't.

8/10 (very different experience from the one with Bell, but I'd say they were about equally good).

Very tired from the heat and sightseeing, so no more fun that night. Well, except for a walk through Soi Cowboy and a drink with an extremely chatty girl in a go-go. I like the Nana to Soi 11 area better.

Day 5.

GFE in a reportedly PSE massage place. I'm terrible with names, but looking at the Snow White list on the Lily Massage website, I'm 99% sure the girl was Ta.

Bit of an odd entry though, at least ten girls at work, but I wasn't offered a lineup, Ta just walked out like she was next in line (which she might have been). I'm happy I didn't object.

Very cute and smiling girl with a nice body.

We didn't talk much the first of the two hours. Though it then turned out her English was a bit better than she had first made me think. But from the three long showers to the time on the bed, she was constantly eager to kiss and hold each other close.

Deep throat, anal, close and intimate cowgirl. We never really got around to the oil massage though. She started a bit in the middle without oil, but then we just ended up lying down and kissing again before round two. Also worked very hard to make me come a second time, finally succeeded in the last shower.

9. 5/10.

Lessons learned from first Thailand trip. The popular massage places seem a much safer bet for a potentially good or great experience, than spending too much money on lady drinks (and I'm not much of a drinker myself these days) and barfines, to then have a high risk of bringing home a girl who can barely manage to feign interest, and is out the door a minute after you pull out.

I'm sure there are gems in the bars, go-gos and among freelancers, but it looks to me like it could. Depending on luck. Take quite a bit of time and money to find any. Meanwhile in three massage experiences two were very good and one was excellent. And they all ran until the time agreed upon.

A related lesson learned is that the lower Sukhumvit is a bad place to stay if you don't want to feel compelled to go out and spend money on drinks and lady drinks every night, and would rather save it for the massage shops.

[QUOTE=MikeSV;1642777]Summary report of my first Bangkok ......

Lessons learned from first Thailand trip. The popular massage places seem a much safer bet for a potentially good or great experience, than spending too much money on lady drinks (and I'm not much of a drinker myself these days) and barfines, to then have a high risk of bringing home a girl who can barely manage to feign interest, and is out the door a minute after you pull out.

I'm sure there are gems in the bars, go-gos and among freelancers, but it looks to me like it could. Depending on luck. Take quite a bit of time and money to find any. Meanwhile in three massage experiences two were very good and one was excellent. And they all ran until the time agreed upon.

A related lesson learned is that the lower Sukhumvit is a bad place to stay if you don't want to feel compelled to go out and spend money on drinks and lady drinks every night, and would rather save it for the massage shops.[/QUOTE]Yes. That's how I increasingly feel about agogos of today. It's more of a rip off game than anything else. The dancers keep pushing for LDs. Any sign of weakness on your part, pretty soon her sister dancers' will join in, then the waitresses, then the mamasans.

At the oilies, one is assured of better services generally and fixed prices.

Toumai

[QUOTE=ActionOriented;1642557]Unless you got the name of the place wrong, you appear to have visited soi Cowboy. Bacarra is in soi Cowboy and not Nana Entertainment Plaza.[/QUOTE]Oops, sorry, the name of the agogo was Rainbow 1 of course.

[QUOTE=Margaya;1642531]Or is it still raining everyday? A lot or just a short downpour? Can anyone please let me know?

Thanks in advance.[/QUOTE]I was just in Bangkok for a few days. It rained once while I was out for a few minutes. I didn't see rain again while there. I got to Pattaya recently and it rained lightly here and there, but nothing heavy.

[QUOTE=Margaya;1642531]Or is it still raining everyday? A lot or just a short downpour? Can anyone please let me know?

Thanks in advance.[/QUOTE]I have been on the ground in BKK for a week now. Very little rain 90 F during the day and not too humid. Pleasant at night. All in all very good weather.

SL.

For those who are interested. I got 32.75 B per USD today for pristine $100 USD bills from the arab money changers in lower Suk. Happy with that, but with the dollar surging hopefully I can do better in the coming days and weeks. Stay away from the bank change booths they seem to be in the 32.45 B to 32.55 B range.

And for those of you who want to track the rates: I use the USD-THB cross on x-[URL]rates.com[/URL] or [URL]xe.com[/URL] and subtract. 10 B and it is usually pretty close.

SL.

[QUOTE=Sunlover2;1643912]For those who are interested. I got 32.75 B per USD today for pristine $100 USD bills from the arab money changers in lower Suk. Happy with that, but with the dollar surging hopefully I can do better in the coming days and weeks. Stay away from the bank change booths they seem to be in the 32.45 B to 32.55 B range.

And for those of you who want to track the rates: I use the USD-THB cross on x-[URL]rates.com[/URL] or [URL]xe.com[/URL] and subtract. 10 B and it is usually pretty close.

SL.[/QUOTE]Your savings is roughly 1 percent. So if you drop 2 grand over the course of your trip on sex, food and drink that's a $20 premium. I maintain that $20 is an acceptable premium to pay for NOT having to deal with Arab changers and to guard against phony bills.

[QUOTE=Rjsss212;1643924]Your savings is roughly 1 percent. So if you drop 2 grand over the course of your trip on sex, food and drink that's a $20 premium. I maintain that $20 is an acceptable premium to pay for NOT having to deal with Arab changers and to guard against phony bills.[/QUOTE]Rightly said Rjsss212. My worry was also phoney bills as I was to get 1 k euros exchanged so a hundred or two hundred baht didn't really matter and I got money exchanged at Superrich (Green) and got a rate of 40.70 which was really good.

[B]November 1 (Day 1: Saturday)[/B]

Landed at Don Mueang airport after a grueling 8 hour total flight time with 2 hour changeover between both flights in Singapore (wherein even the immigration officer had looked at me surprised whether I will make the next flight and has asked me to run). Surprisingly my buddy has showed up at the airport as he was flying out of Singapore within next few hours. Real surprise. It was a breeze with him alongside to get to the other terminal. Landed in BKK approx. 2. 30 hours later got myself a local sim. 399 baht with internet. No passport copy asked. No documents required. Upon looking closely at the sim pack it had a 27th Dec 2010 arrival stamp and departed stamp date of 14th Jan 2011 from the immigration office. Guess this is how things work here. Walked up to the taxi queue which seems to be extra-long considering almost 3 flights had landed back to back. Had seen a private taxi board while walking out. Retraced my steps to their counter. Prabhirarb Co Ltd. Booked a cab for 700 baht to hotel. Also paid 100 baht toll. Reached hotel. Had booked Sofitel on the sukhumvit strip after considering a lot of options. Checkin in was a breeze due to the club room I had booked. Was checked in almost an hour earlier. Good first impression.

Took the BTS to chitlom station. Got out and went to Unite change. Was carrying Euros. Rate was 40.50 baht. Had installed the Superrich Thailand (green) app on my cell. Rate at superrich was 40.70.considering I had almost a grand euros to exchange I decided to walk up to the exchange store. And I also wanted to go to Big see later to pick up some Sagami 0. 001 or 0. 002 which ever was available. Exchanged the money. Went to Big see. Couldn't get my hands on any Sagamis as they seemed to be out of stock. Decided to take a cab with so much money on me. Bad idea. Almost an hour ride through painful traffic for a 10 minute journey by BTS. Vowed never to repeat unless absolutely necessary. Back to hotel room after picking up basic stuff from the neighbouring 7/11.

[B]Nataree: Soapy[/B]

It was 6 pm by the time I decided to venture out to Nataree. I walked upto the MRT and took the ride. Nataree was easy to locate with google maps. Walked in. Pretty crowded. Papasan came to me and started taking me around from right to left. Some decent girls all smiling. Good sign .2600, then further up, 3 k to 4 k baht, then the model line up. 5 k baht. Surprisingly found most of them to be Ok. Very small and petite girls. Found nothing great comparatively. Liked one but wanted to complete the round with the papasan then to the girls sitting in front of the fish bowl. And eventually the girls in the fish bowl. My senses were quite overloaded at this point of time. Papasan left me in a jiffy as some east Asian clients walked in the door. I decided to settle in and take some time to have a good look at the girls. Place was overflowing with east Asian clients. Had to seat myself on a table preoccupied near the 5 k baht girls. Ordered for a Asahi. Not available. Heineken. Not available. Only Singha. Why the hell bother to give the menu if nothing else is available. And I don't understand what is with people in this part of the world that they need ice cubes in their beer. Tried to get a good look all around now. Had almost forgotten the prices in my mind. Took a long look at the 5 k bhat girls and found 1 to my liking however the girl was simply avoiding eye contact. Thought better to skip than to have a starfish experience. Few minutes and sips later notice a cute, petite girl smiling at me whenever I looked at her. Took this as a good sign. As she was seated on the sofa. Next to the 5 k baht girls I assumed she would be 1 k less and would be the 3/4 k baht range. I decided to go with her. Invited her. She came over and picked up my beer bottle and glass. I asked her to let it go. She was surprised as I had taken only a few sips from the glass. Don't really like singha hence wanted to skip it.. We walked up to the counter wherin papasan was smart enough to follow. Wouldn't tip him a dime after the behavior I had experienced with him.

I was asked to pay 2. 6 k baht. Was confused. Thought it would be higher. Didn't know that girls can sit across categories as the 2. 6 k girls were at the right hand sofa in the entrance. Whereas this girl was sitting beside the 5 k sofa. What the hell decided to go on. Took the lift to the 2nd floor room. Waited for her basket to be brought in. Room was just ok.

Girls name was Ying. Height must be 5'1" or 2". Age was 22 is what she told me. Not that it mattered at this point. Average english. Could understand few works or small sentences. Took me to shower. Cleaned me and herself up. Left the tub filling at the same time. On the bed. Good DFK. She had decent breasts. Very playful. Got me hard in no time. Continued rolling on the bed enjoying her body and she was responding very well. Started giving me a BBBJ. I reached my hands underneath her. She was hot and wet as well, clean shaven which I prefer. She was really good. Played around my balls and shaft and sucked very well. I was almost about to come. Had to stop her for few minutes. She asked me what happened. I told her and to my surprise she said I could come and she would get my hard again. 2 times is ok with her. Had lost the moment by then. Got into the tub. Another round of detailed rinsing. Back on the bed. Same intensity. DFK, BBBJ and a couple of standard positions. Finished up quickly though but very satisfied. Had a smoke. Showered again and dressed up. Gave her 300 baht tip as I was very contended with the session. My second best session of the trip. Will return to Nataree.

Almost an hour end to end. Walked down. Papasan was standing grinning there. Said I will return in a day or two and walked out without tipping him anything. Got back to MRT then to Asoke. Needed to get some food.

I was recommended a very good restaurant called Sudas, soi 14.had to try it once. Restaurants is at the corner of the road towards Soms Haven. Walked up there. Had to wait for quite some time before a sweet Englishman took pity on me and invited me to join on his table with his wife. Excellent local fare. Highly recommended if you are in this area. Got back to hotel to rest for some time before my next romp.

[B]Spasso, Grand Hyatt: FL Bar[/B]

It was 11 pm by the time I came down to the lobby. A taxi just came into the hotel to drop off someone and I got in. Asked him to take me to Grand Hyatt, Erawan. He said 100 baht. I said meter. He repeated so did I.just as I was about to get down he agreed mumbling something in thai. We drove on. Could see the night owls had come out on the street. We reached in about 20 minutes as the traffic had thinned out considerably. I walked into the basement .2 lovely ladys greeted me and spelled out 800 baht entry fee. I was tongue twisted on what to say. Didn't want to go back so paid and entered. Very small joint. Seating area to the right. Some party was going on. Bar area to left was extremely crowded. Continued further brushing up against people and reached the dance floor. House band was playing. Similar feel as the Brix in Singapore. Only difference was there were only thai girls and few black girls here. Average quality was 6 with few 7/8 around. Didn't notice any 9. Got myself to the bar. Ordered my drink. JD with cola. Was difficult to walk around as it was pretty crowded but I had to scope out the place. Walked entire circle of the bar with smiles getting showered on my. Got myself into a corner with some space around. Girl smiling walked up to me. Looks were good, potential for me. Usual talks began. Asked me whether I was staying at that hotel. I refused and stated the name of my hotel. Said ok and then just walked away. Didn't even get her name or anything more. Few moment later others would have sensed the prey as well. Another one walked up to me. Usual pleasantries. Didn't find her ok. So told her I would be back after a smoke. Made my way out. This place dosent have a smoking lounge so I walked right out of the bar and out of the basement to an open area. Girl was standing there alone. Asked me for a smoke which I handed out to her. Said she wanted to get in but the entry was quite high that day. Couldn't tell her that I had also realized it too late. However conversation started and yes she seemed to be a FL. Introduced herself as Am. Looked good with right body size. Few pounds around hips but overall a decent package. But didn't want to seal the deal here and walk to hotel without even finishing my drink and having a good look at all the stuff available that day. Walked back in and was greeted by a good beauty upon entry. Usual pleseantries. Asked me whether I was staying at this hotel. I replied accordingly. Checked whether I needed some company. I said yes and asked her how much was it going to cost me. She said 5 k baht ST. I said ok and told her that it was too early for me to retire to bed and I planned on spending some time there and have a few more drinks. Moved on. As I am walking towards the dance floor was greeted by another beauty. Introduced herself as Pat, repeat conversation. 5 k ST. I moved on. While I didn't have any issue on the price the question on whether I was staying at the grand hyatt was asked by all the girls and it did bother me. It gave me an indication that these girls would want to rush back and hence no assurance of service. I continued my search. During all this time I finished my drink and leaned across the bar to grab another one .400 baht for a JD cola. Very expensive. What luck. The girl whom I was talking to outside was now standing beside me. Looks liked some of her friend had paid her entry. I politely asked her if she needs a drink to which there was a nod and I bought her a glass of wine. Same cost. Now I asked her if she had any plans to give me company that night. Yes she said with 5 k ST. My drink has arrived and I decided to leave the bar and her for other options. I spot a sweet girl sitting at the bar with a sweet smile on her. Didn't bother earlier as she was talking to a guy.I waved my glass to her and said cheers to which she responded equally. Suddenly the guy she was talking to was back so I decided to have another smoke. Walked all way out and by the time I was back she was alone again. I walked up to her. Usual pleasantries. She was a 7 . Right sized assets in front. She got off the chair. Height must have been approx. 5'2" 3" turned around to look for someone. Must be the guy who was with her I thought. But my attention was on her butt and yes I liked it. She was wearing a tight green Chinese dress. Introduces herself as Nanny. I guessed she must be around 23 to 25 but I was not too sure about age as thai girls look young till they cross 30.we shook hands and said cheers again. Small talks began about where I am from, purpose of visit, etc to which I gave generalist answers not letting her guess that it's my first time in town. In the meantime she was looking at the door frequently. Was wondering whether the guy is going to come back or is she expecting someone else. Had become interested in her. I asked her. She replied that she's waiting for a friend. I asked her if she's in for a party tonight. And I would like her company. She responded positively and quotes 5 k ST. I thought and countered with 4 k to which she stared at me and then agreed with a smile. I asked her if she's ok and whether has any specific activities to refuse. She said that all apart from A level was ok. So was I. She dosent ask me where I was staying. A welcome change. We decided to move out but then her friend walked in. Decent looking gal as well. But I had made my choice by then. So I excused myself for a smoke. On my way in another girl smiled and walked up to me. Usual pleasantries began. I tell her that I was with Nanny. She smiled and backed off. Guess they have a clear understanding on the process. Nanny was back. We walked upto the taxi area wherein she said that it would be better to catch a cab from the road. We walked out onto the road and I just couldn't take my eyes off her. I had made a right choice I said to myself.

Reached the hotel. Little cuddling happened in the taxi but nothing else. Paid by the meter. Got her I'd at the reception and go into the room. It was shower time. She asked me if I wanted to join her. I joined her without hesitation. Good DFK and some cuddling. She washed me clean and herself too. Good body. No stretch marks. Onto the bed. She was a good kisser. Could not believe that I was experiencing 2 girls in the same day with GFE. If this was a taste of things to come then I was 100% hooked on to Thai women and Thailand for years to come I said to myself. I continued with DFK, natural be sized breasts, firm. Clean shaven. Couldn't resist DATY. She came twice in those few minutes. She gave me a good BBBJ. Got on top of me. We went on for few minutes. Continue in miss and then I finished in doggy. My fav position. Couldn't believe that I had come so soon. I wanted it to go on. We lied down on the bed for some time. I smoked. She said that she had come thrice in that entire session. I felt good. I asked her if she can stay till morning to which she politely refused and said she could definitely meet me next day evening though. I took down her no. Didn't want to get into the conversation of brother, BF, family etc after such an amazing session. She cuddled up back to me another round of DFK. Few minutes later she was dressed and gone with a 300 baht tip. Its was 3. 30 am. I went to sleep thinking first day has gone as planned and expected more of beauties in the coming 3 days of my trip.

This eventually turned out to be the best session of my trip and I will return to Spasso on my next trip. I did have the price range of 2 k to 3 k baht in my mind to pay but didn't just have the energy to negotiate or look further from Spasso considering the tiring day I had.

[B]November 2 (Day 2: Sunday)[/B]

[B]Soms Haven: BJ Bar[/B]

I got up at 11.30 am. Had missed breakfast. Lazed around for some time. Made myself a coffee after messing around with the expresso machine, munched on snacks I had picked up from 7/11 earlier. Got a tingling sensation remembering the last night session. Decided to start with a BJ. Got into the shower and out of Hotel by 12.30 pm. Walked towards Soms Haven which I had seen last night .5 minute walk over the FOB to the other side of the road from my hotel .4 girls were sitting outside. Was welcomed in. Guy was standing there before me but decided to have a beer. Good for me. Lady came to me and explained the cost I. E. 800 baht. I asked for the girls. She invited me outside to have a look. Just breezed through and selected a girl. She came in and took me up to the first floor. Asked me if I wanted take a leak. I refused as I had just walked up from the Hotel. We got into the room. Small cubicle actually at the end of the passage with the a / see. Her name was Pam. She asks me to get to the wash basin for clean up. I told her that I had just taken a shower. She insisted and I gave in without further arguing. On the sofa. She started licking. I tried to get to her boobs and she helped me release them. Good see cup naturals. I got a hard on. She continued at it and I was getting into the zone. My hand reached towards her panties but she told me touching there was not allowed. I asked her if she could undress completely to which she refused. We got on with it. First in the sitting position with her down on her knees. Then me lying on the sofa with her on top. Me standing with her sitting on the sofa. I just lost my mojo suddenly. All I could hear were her slight moans, the sloppy sound and the a / see noise. I tried to relax but now she was really getting tired and asked me if all was ok. I nodded and she continued. Then she turned to handjob but I just could not cum. After a good amount of time of sucking and hand job I gave up. She was upset and said she's sorry and she had tried. I comfored her and told her it was not her problem. Maybe the ambience. Not able to touch her pussy. Or a mix of other factors. I got dressed and handed her a 200 baht tip knowing she had tried her best. Maybe BJ experience in this setup was not really for me. Left with slight boner in my shorts.

I walked out and back towards the hotel. Saw a Thai massage parlour and decide to get a foot massage. As I walked in the ladies directed me upstairs to which I said I only needed only a foot massage. They were slightly surprised. But got me onto a chair in the corner. Others were taken and 6/7 women were already at work. A beautiful PRC was lying on the sofa beside me. I gazed at her. She was asleep. Suddenly I saw her BF staring at me across her shoulder. I settled in without antagonizing the situation further and gota 250 baht hour long relaxing massage. I stepped out and decided to get something to eat. Saw a small restaurant walking towards asoke station on the corner of Insanity disco and hopped in for a tom yum goong soup and phat thai. Cheap and good food. Got back to hotel to relax for some time and contemplate on what to do next. Also had to send a SOS to Actionoriented for rubber as I was running low on the stock brought from back home.

[B]EZ Massage: Oily[/B]

I stepped out at 5. 30 pm and decided to walk to EZ / Mango rather than taking the BTS. Big mistake. The heat got me completely by the time I reached. Was dripping wet. As I walked into the alley girls from another oily opposite to Mango / EZ dressed in pink if I remem well called me. I signaled that I wanted to go into EZ / Mango. As I was standing I saw the girls sitting outside Mango. No one caught my eye. I climbed upstairs. Was welcomed by the house lady. She handed over the album to me. Indicating which girls were working that day. I decided on Pat. She called for her. Pat walked up through the stairs. I wondered why didn't I look at the EZ girls in person while entering. Maybe my focus was on Mango girls and I walked right past the EZ girls sitting near the gate. Slightly plumpier then the photograph. But she had a sweet smile on her face. I decided to go ahead. Paid 2 k baht to the house lady for 1 hour oily session. Pat took me to the room. I just wanted to get into the shower quickly. She cleaned me and then herself. A / see cooling was better now. She got me to lie down and started with a fragrant oil massage. As she was running her hands across my body I started to get a hard on. She continued with a decent massage then she rubbed my body with her breasts which were good sized but very soft. Right from my arse upto my neck. What a feeling. She continued for few minutes. Got me to turn over. Extended the massage to my shaft, balls and rubbed my frontal body with her breast. Got my shaft between her breast and rubbed for few strokes. Then she put on a condom with her mouth and continued CBJ for few minutes playing with my balls. I was ready. She came on top and continued with slow movements. The way I like. Changed positions into miss. Gave few wet kisses. No DFK. Changed over to doggy and I finished. Lied for few minutes. It was indeed a relief for me. Thought to myself that a pure BJ joint was not for me and I should continue to relax myself through other options available. I handed her a 300 baht tip for the decent session and returned to Hotel by BTS. Will return to EZ on my next trip.

[B]Climax / Shock 39: FL Bar[/B]

I got a cab after initial hassling on meter at the hotel. Left for Mixx at around 11.00 pm. Taxi guy asked me where I was headed. He said I should go to shock as it was a big and better disco. I insisted he drive me to Intercontinental. Reached there in 10 minutes. Walked down to the basement towards the entry. Was told that it's a regular members night only. First disappointment. Decide to walk out and was considering going to Insanity or Thermae as both were within 5 minute's walk from my Hotel. As I came out the taxi guy was standing there. He told me that people of my ethnicity were not allowed entry in Mixx. Decided to take it in stride and move on. He insisted that I check Shock. So asked him to take me there. Was a 10 minute ride. Told the taxi guy to hang around for some time if I didn't like the place and he could take me to some other disco on my list.

Paid 300 baht entry charge and got into Shock around 11.45 pm. This place was really big.took few minute to scope the layout. Walked upto the bar. Place was filled with Indians and few black guys. Could spot the occasional white guy. Looked like people had come to party in groups. With a drink in my hand I could see majority of the gals were CIS. Few blacks and thai gals. Seemed like a predominant CIS gal club. Girls on average were 5. Not too great. I started the merry go around the stage. Big one where girls were taking turns dancing. Some with guys. Club felt slightly empty due to the size. Spotted few 6 but were already with guys. Kept walking at a slow pace spotting for talent. Lookied like all the good girls were already taken. Smoking allowed inside the bar. Good relief for me for not having to walk out every time. Saw couple of thai girls. Walked up close but nothing to my taste. Hanged around for some time. Saw a girl in Pink, white and black striped dress. Looked beautiful and Thai but wasn't sure. She was talking to a guy so decided to wait my turn. She finished with him and went up on the stage where she danced for some time. Decided that I had to talk to her so waited for her to return down. She had a great body. Looked 23 to 25 yrs old. Went and got another drink at the bar. She came back and went to her spot. I walked towards her but a guy had already approached her so waited again. I went to a corner opposite her table and watched as the negotiations fell apart. Smiled at her and nodded her to come towards me to which she did. When she walked close I realized that she was not Thai. I asked her where she was from. Uzbekistan she replied. Disheartened I had to carry on. She asked me if I was looking for company. I said yes. She asked ST or LT. I replied depends on performance. Then she herself quoted me "7000 baht for LT". I just couldn't believe she actually asked for that price. .didn't want to engage further I smiled and said maybe some other time. She said it was my wish and walked away. Even if I had to make an offer it wouldn't have been 5 k baht but a measly 3 k so didn't get into that as CIS was not on my agenda on this trip. Gal is definitely good looking and anyone interested can spot her on the table between the stage on right and pool table area on left. Saw her hang out there with her friends. It was almost 1 pm and I have to move out. Had it in my mind that things came to a close at 2 pm. Walked out looked for the taxi guy. He had left as I had been inside for over an hour.

I decided to go to Climax as it seemed closed on google maps. Walked to the main road crossed over and took a cab with meter on. He got me into soi 11.damn crowded at that time of the night. Walked into the basement of ambassador hotel. Paid 300 baht entry charge and got in. Was almost 1. 15 am. Started scouting immediately. Live band was playing and this place was rocking. I immediately took fancy to the place. Took a walk round the dance stage to the bar looking out. Saw 2 girls there who were also at Shock but had come over here. They also recognized me. But I moved on to the bar. Got myself a drink. Saw a girl in blue dress with 2 lady friends. Looked sweet. Was dancing to the music. Body looked good to me and in shape. Waited for her to look at me which she did and I smiled and waved my glass with a cheers to her. She reciprocated with her pint. But I had just arrived so didn't want to close del without having a look around. I asked the bar maid continuously approaching me to finally get a JD cola for me which she did pretty fast. Started to walk around scouting for potentials. Crowd must be average 6.but as I walked most of the good women were already partying out with guys in groups. All seemed to be taken. After a complete round and no significantly interesting option I settled at the counter near the toilet. Good place as a lot of girls were walking in and out and I could have a look at them clearly. Few CIS and blacks walked. Some thai. But girls didn't seem to be interested in me. Assumed that they must already be with their catch of the day. Moved back to the bar. Noticed that the girl in blue dress was still there with her 2 friends and was dancing with them. Walked over to her. Usual pleasantries. She had come to party with her friends that night and seemed more interested in the music. I hung out for a while there. Got her a beer and some snacks which she wanted to buy to give some to the girls walking with the trays. Started dancing with me. Her friends were continuously talking to her in Thai and she was responding with a laugh everytime. Couldn't catch a word. Wish I knew thai at the point. Asked her name. Aoy she said. Got myself another drink. Was having a good time. Had a look at time. It was already 2 am. Asked her when did the place close. She said around 2 to 2. 30 not very sure. Decided to make the move. Asked her if she was looking for some company. Depends she said. I asked her what she wanted. She said she wanted to think about it. Waited until a few sips. Asked her if she had made up her mind. She checked with her friends in thai. Seemed like they were saying go for it. She replied 4 k ST. I paused for a second, thought of time to find another girl and then countered saying that I could pay her that amount but it will need to be LT. She again checked with her friends. They all laughed. Didn't understand whether they were joking about me or my offer but stood my ground. Few minutes and post pep talks with her friends she said ok lets go. She insisted that we stay for a few songs and then leave. I didn't mind. I started cozying up to her and shaking my booty with her. We moved out of the place. She asked me where I was staying. I replied Sofitel. She asked me which soi as she dosent seem to know the hotel. I told her its between soi 13 and 15.she did a you turn and took me walking towards the other side of the parking lot. Yes there was a short cut onto the soi. I decided to wait for a cab but she asked me to walk on. Could see the BTS line hence wasn't much of a walk actually. Stopped at a 7/11 to pick up smokes. She got herself some chicken thing in a small square red box. Asked whether I was carrying a condom to which I replied that I had few at the hotel. We continued our walk onto the main road and took a left towards my Hotel. Had seen black guys hand out here during the day and night earlier. Even one pissing in the divider on the road. As we walked one of them commented something. AOY wanted to say something back. I told her to ignore and continued to walk on. These black guys really seem a nuisance and one should avoid if you are staying at the Sofitel. They hang out just outside the entry gate from afternoon till late in the night. The exit gate is better as that opens up right beside Thermae and you seem some good SW and LB standing out. Not to mention the guys who call you out or come running with massage pamphlets in their hand once they spot you walking out.

I got her I'd deposited at the reception and we went up to the room. She must have been around 25.saw a tattoo on back of her neck which I had missed earlier as she had let her hair loose. Sat for a few minutes, she also got comfortable. Got her and myself a beer from the minibar. It was now shower time as we both had sweated on walk back to hotel. . I join her in the bathroom. She had a decent body. Slight fat. Must be due to age I thought and now she looked more towards 30. .got onto the bed. Continued with the beer. She let go of the towel and got under the sheets. This is when I noticed another open wings tattoo on her lower back. Reminded me of porn star "Mason storm". Started DFK and it was wet and good. Tongue play for some time. Had got a hard on by then. I continued with DFK, sucked on the breasts which seemed to be of good dimensions. Natural. The way I like. Reached my hand down on her. Had a small trimmed Bush. Ignored at the time and moved on.couldn't get myself to do DATY with the Bush as I have never done it before either.. She went down on my gave me a hard and rapid sucking. Was different then my earlier experience. Seemed more like PSE. Came back and started DFK and biting on my lips. I had to get inside her. Got rubber on and her on top of me as well. Went on for few minutes. She was fast and extremely rapid with her movements. Had to ask her to slow down as I didn't intend to finish immediately. Got her on the side and continued my thrusts into her. Got in miss. With some good DFK again and paying around with her naturals. Turned her over on her knees. The tattoo on her back was amazing and I could feel my rod tightening.got into her and continued for few minutes. She slowly lied down and I continued till I came. Fell on top of her. It was good. Another amazing session in BKK. Smoked and lied for some time. She got up and went to the shower, I went in later. We both started another round of beer. She asked me if I wanted to go to bed. I said I will stay awake and watch Tv for some time. She offered to stay awake and came and sat on my lap on the sofa. We chatted for some time. She asked about me. I lied most of the stuff about myself to her. We continued chatting for some time basically about thailand, thai food, family, etc. She had opened up slightly by then. Told me that she had a child of 4 or 5 years with her mother back in her home town. Didn't expect that as she had no signs of that on her body. Showed me pictures of her house which seemed to be pretty big. Told me that they had separated recently and he was no longer in touch with her, American guy if I remem well. I could relate her talked to all the stories I had read earlier. However we were too tired and jumped into the sack and slept with me resting my tool between her arse crack.

Next thing I remember is she woke me up at around 10 am. And was asking me if she could leave. Seemed like she had taken a shower. Turned me on. I pulled her towards myself and started DFK. She responded and maybe expected that. Removed her towel and got her into the sheets for another round. Went off pretty well with some DFK, BBBJ and doggy with me wanting to see her tattoo while taking her. Finished soon. She got into the shower to clean up. I got money from the locker and waiter for her to come out. She came out and got dressed. I handed her the money with 300 baht tip. We kissed and she walked out.

Another good experience and I will return to Climax again. Shock is off my list and so is Mixx. Thanks for being my only racist experience so far in LOS.

[QUOTE=IllusionHeart;1643965][B]November 1 (Day 1: Saturday)[/B]
This eventually turned out to be the best session of my trip and I will return to Spasso on my next trip. I did have the price range of 2 k to 3 k baht in my mind to pay but didn't just have the energy to negotiate or look further from Spasso considering the tiring day I had.[/QUOTE]Refreshing to read a review that goes into so much detail in the FL Club Scene. Ditto! Must try Spasso in a couple weeks time.

[B]November 3 (Day 3: Monday)[/B]

I checked and it was just some time left for me to catch breakfast at the club. Went on had a decent bite. Back to room to action out the plan for the day. Had a lot of time on my hand hence walked across the FOB to get a foot massage. Really amazing experience for 250 baht an hour with 50 baht. Same thing costs 40 SGD in Singapore. Walked upto the local foodspot at entrance of Insanity disco. Light lunch with Mango smoothie. 200 baht I thin. Pretty decent food. Back to hotel for some lazing around in the pool or tub either one is ok for me. Having to choose between Eden and oily I decided to for latter basis of my experience the earlier day.

[B]Tulip: Oily[/B]

I stepped out at 5. 30 pm and decided to go to Cherry. Took the BTS and walked up to the place. Got in. Two east asian guys were sitting there already. I waited till they walked out. Girl showed me the album and said that she (Amy or pinky I don't remem clearly) was available alongwith few others. I browsed through but didn't find anyone meeting my requirement. Wanted to try A level today. Its good that they have it written below the photographs on which girl would be ok with it. Remembered BBs name in some posts and asked is she was available. She wasn't.Ann was the other girl available with A* so I asked if I could see her. She called for Ann and got a reply from inside the room. She translated to me saying that Ann had a booking in some time. .the only girl who was left was Bell but without A*.I decided to have a look at her in person as I was already there. She called for her. Bell walked in but I didn't like her. Slightly big framed compared to the girls I had been with. I thanked her and walked out. Lit up a smoke. Checked options in my map. Tulip. I decided to take the BTS.

I got down. Walked across but couldn't locate it. So searched for exact directions on net. I had got down on the wrong side. I climbed the stairs and crossed over. Walked in. Girls were sitting in the small parlour on the right as one walks in. I walked towards the counter. Lady handed me the menu card. Selected 1 hour oily and wanted to have a look at the girls. She asked me to pay upfront. Not wanting to walk out again I paid 2. 1 k baht. The girls had got themselves seated in the area in the meantime. I walked in. Every Woman was staring at me. There seemed to be no girls. Except for one. I looked across from left to right and back. Picked on the only girl I could see. She stood up with a smile and we walked upstairs. She asked me if I wanted to go to the toilet. I refused and we walked into the room. Room looked worse than the one I had at EZ. But it was too late now. Got in. Girls name was Ya Ya. Went out and got her stuff. Had a smoke and gulped down the water bottle she got for me. She took me to the shower. Cleaned up. Back on the bed. She started with the oil massage. Was ok. Nothing to write about. Ok CBJ. Had sex in WOT and finished in miss. Few kisses. No DFK. Pretty average session. Finished somehow. During talks I figured that she had come to this place 6 months back and was still not fully trained. Guys looking for a serious and experienced session can avoid her. No anal was on offer. Another disappointment for me. She did however take effort to make me happy and was very cooperative so tipped her 300 baht while walking out. I will not return to this joint as I am not into mature ladies and prefer young GFE type experiences. None was on offer here. In retrospect I think I should have gone to a soapy but this was also an experience I wanted.

It was 7 pm now and I decided to walk back to the Hotel. Also needed to check soi 33.Dali bar in specific. Had read about it in Monger planet blog. I started to walk back. Got into soi 33.seemed early in the day. Didn't want to get in just after another session and bar fine or buy lady drinks for no reason hence had a look around street. Lot of massage places and bars. Some good girls handing around but unfortunately I was spent for the next hour or two and decide to walk back. Got into the lane connecting to soi cowboy. Walk into the street. It was indeed early but I located Suzie wong and Baccara which I would return to tomorrow. Back to hotel for some rest and dinner.

[B]Nana: Hot Lips / Angelwitch gogo bars[/B]

I started walking towards Nana plaza around 10.00 pm. Streets had come to life. Lot of FLs hanging around not to mention the black guys as well outside the hotel. I walked towards Nana. This would be my first visit to a gogo bar. I continued but then decided that I should walk out the scene around this area as well. So instead I walked towards Grace hotel on right. Had read about it and seen on youtube. I reached there and was immediately caught hold of by a lady in middle eastern dress. Asking me whether I wanted to boom boom. I politely refused and continue to walk through. The quality here was really bad. Big and ugly women. Don't know who would want to get in on with them. Anyways I should not be judgemental. People have varied tastes and hence these women are there on the street I guess. Am sure they must be rocking someones boat. Am not to return this side again.

I crossed over the road into Nana plaza and continued my walk to scope out the street. Saw the entrance to NEP. Lot of people walking in. Place seemed to be live with loud music playing from different bars. I continue on. Spot Rajah Hotel on the right. Needed to check I think so I crossed the road and walked toward the hotel. As soon as I reached one guy approached me saying. Want Russians. I said to myself what was I thinking. I turned back and walked down the road away from NEP. Few massage parlours down the road. Few beer bars with pool tables and girls sitting lonely on chairs or with men staring on the road. What is the modus operandi of the girls who are alone. Do they approach you. Can we approach them. Are they for takeout or just to get you drinks at the place. Would request inputs for future visits.

I returned to NEP and stood outside having a smoke. Saw a LB swearing out loudly at some white guy on the street and the guy was just walking away to avoid a scene. I paused for a few minutes. Took a look at the women standing at the gate of Nana hotel. None seemed to interest me. Quantity was also very low approx. 8 to 10 of them. Maybe it was quite early in the night for them. I got into Nep. Walked upstairs on the right saw Mandarin. Women calling me in. Didn't want to get in. Walked on the first floor and completed the entire floor. Lot of LBs standing in the passage. Moved swiftly so as to not engage them or antagonize them. Got myself on the second floor. Not much of interest there. Returned to the first floor. Walked back towards Mandarin thinking will go in there. Passed Rainbow 4. Guys at the gate gave me strange looks. Wasn't on my plan to get in there anyways so I got into Hot Lips. Mistake .5/6 girls on stage in white bikinis. Topless. Mamasan caught hold of me and got me seated. I ordered for beer. She was back with 2 beers in a jiffy. I sipped. Nothing of interest but now I had to finish two beers. Got mamasan to call a lady for me. No 17. I noticed that she had bristles once she was seated next to me. I wondered whether she will be able to do a BJ properly without hurting anyones tool. DFK was definitely out of the question. Decided to enjoy. Mamas an had one drink and got girl another one. Girl spoke little English so stared at the girls who had gone wild and removed their bikins while giving lap dance to the guys there were with. Lot of cheering in the bar. In the meantime another girl. No 18 made herself comfortable to my right. I had not invited her. It seems that they had surely got a whiff that I was a newbie. Drinks for her as well. Mama got another drink. I had to call it off now as I was not really enjoying so I finished my beer told mamasan that I was leaving. She got me bill. Paid 1100 baht with tip. These drinks do start to add up very fast.

I walked over to Angelwitch. Liked the first impression. Rock music was playing and girls were dressed in yellow and black dress. Mamasan got me a seat. Approx. 20+ girls on stage. Ambience was for my taste. Suddenly all girls came down and the show started. The lead girl was good. Had silicones but a great body. Nice face and sexysmile. Was thinking about bar fining her but her show was on and I had to wait .2/3 acts later I called mamasan and asked her to call the girl to sit with me. Unfortunately she was already taken by some guy and she went on to sit with him once the acts were done. I paid the bill. 650 baht. Decided to get myself into a FL bar. It was to be Thermae or Insanity as both were the closest to my Hotel. Insanity it would be.it was 1 pm now and I wanted to get there in time to pick someone up. I decided to walk the distance.

[B]Insanity: FL bar[/B]

I reached. Paid the 200 baht entry fee .20 baht in the tip box on request from the sweet counter girl. Got in. Place was as big as Shock but had a small dance area in the center compared to the dance stage in shock. Two small podiums (drums) were kept at each corner on left near the bar area with one girl dancing on each. Got myself a JD cola from the bar and took a table. Place was almost empty. Had to be. It was a Monday. How could I forget that. Took a walk across the place. Not much available. Few options but not worth considering. Got myself back and nursed my drink. In the meantime the girls dancing on the drums were swapping each other in 7/10 minute interval. I was sitting close to one of these podium. As soon as the girl stepped down she smiled at me and came to me. She was stinking of beer and tequila. Asked me directly if I could buy her a drink. I was taken aback to which she though that I didn't understand so she hand signaled me for a drink. I refused. She walked away. I was scouting around for company but none to be found. Thought of going to Thermae but then decided to stay back as it was already 1. 45 pm. The girls have swapped again and the one dancing has now come down and walked straight to me. She asked me how I was, etc. I was sitting on a stool with my legs open. She positioned her butt exactly between my legs and started grinding me with a naughty smile. I enjoyed. She asked me if I wanted to dance and I politely refused. She hung out for few minutes then asked me if I could buy her a shot of tequila. I thought what the hell let me buy. Suddenly another girl came from back and put her arms around me. She also started dancing besides me. The earlier one said that it was her friend and requested if I could buy her a drink as well. I was really irritated by that time and wanted to get it over with so I said yes. The earlier one remained close to me while her friend went to the bar and came back with 4 tequila shots and handed me a bill of 800 baht. Wait I thought I wanted to buy them a drink each. But they had taken the liberty to order as they wanted. I didn't want to cause any nuisance so I paid. Both girls downed the shots faster than I could see. The earlier girl now excused herself to the toilet. Her friend hung on to me. She started usual pleasantries and suddenly waved at the girl walking with Absolut shots. The girl came over and she wanted me to buy some shots for her. I had enough and said I don't want to. She also excused herself to the toilet. I was thankful and decided to go back to the hotel. I walked out crossed the FOB and got down in front of Thermae thinking whether I should go in or not. Lot of LBs were standing. I decided to just get back to the hotel and rest. I will return to Insantiy during a better day of the week in my next trip.

Till this time I was confident that I will manage to avoid any cons or free drinks but these girls had really pulled a fast one on me. Advice to other newbie mongers like me coming to Bangkok. Beware.

[B]November 4 (Day 4: Tuesday)[/B]

I got up in time for breakfast. Had planned to finish basic sightseeing in the first half. Got out of the hotel at 11.30 am. Crossed FOB then it just started to rain. Got into taxi. Asked him to take me to what Pho. He asked for 200.I agreed .25 minutes we were there. Went in. Moved onto the Royal palace and Emerald Buddha. Was done by 2 pm. Hungry. Took a cab to victory monument. Had to try the noodles being my fav and also recommended by Natty Bumpo. It was very easy to find basis his post. I ordered for 1 bowl with pork. The guy asked me again how many bowls I wanted. I insisted one. He somehow managed to tell me that 1 is too less. So I asked him to get two. When he got those two I realized what he was saying. These were small bowls with barely two or three mouthful. I asked hom for a cola and ordered 2 more bowls. After 4 bowls and 1 cola later I realized why Natty takes the trip to Boat noddle alley. You need to try this. Atleast once. I took the BTS back to hotel and rested for a while. Also need to pack up as I was going to check out next day morning and it was going to be a busy second half running late into the night.

[B]Poseidon: Soapy[/B]

I contemplated between Poseidon and La bella but decided to go with the former. Walked down to Asoke. It was 6 pm took the MRT. Extremely crowded. Peak hours. Managed to get into the second train standing in the queue. Got off and walk towards Poseidon entertainment complex. Had copa cabana in mind as backup as suggested by Syzygies. Identified the lane and saw the place from far. Walked back and entered in and was guided to the lift by the doorman. Get out on the floor. Mamasan greeted me. Got me seated. Then she showed the girls on the right beginning with 3. 8 k, 4. 6 k and 5 k.didn't quite understand the pricing. Girls were good. Place seemed slightly upscale compared to Nataree. Much better organized and lot of light to see the girls clearly. Approx 12 to 15 girls around. Rest must be busy. I keep scanning through sipping coconut water .5 k had 2 girls. Didn't take my fancy. Spot one smiling girl from far and decided to go with her. .asked mamasan to get her. Girl walked over an introduced herself as Soda. Strange name but true as I asked her atleast thrice. Paid 4. 6 k to mamasan. We took the lift and were off to 3rd floor room. Place was well done. Room was good. Girl had carried the coconut along which I found quite funny. Didn't notice that earlier. Also I had not noticed that girl had bristles. Too late now. Thought to myself that no BJ and DFK today. Don't know how am I going to cum. Neways girl was very sweet to talk to. Made me very comfortable. Started the tap in the tub. Gave me a good massage for 10 odd minutes. Decent. Didn't expect that.

Into the tub. Cleaned me up well. We were in the bed. She has silicones but are apt sized. Girl had spent 60 k baht to get them done. Few tattoos on the body. Am ok with that. Trimmed Bush. She starts with a BJ. Am scared that her bristles might rupture a vein on my tool. But she was very careful. Not great but decent enough to get me hard. Small pecks of kisses. No DFK. Start in miss. She's ok with me ravaging her breasts. Strange experience. FKK girls in Germany are very careful when it comes to handling of silicones. I started is miss, continued in doggy. Back to miss again. Got her on top. She was very enthu and supported with fast movements. More of a PSE experience actually. Not my style but I went with the flow. Finished lied for some time. Showered, paid 200 bhat tip and was out. Not a great session but will return to this place.

Thought in my mind was that they should swap Nataree girls with Poseidon infrastructure. Would be one great combination. Take the MRT back to Asoke and walk to hotel. The walk back in the evening to hotel was always interesting as there were always some decent FLs standing outside Thermae and around just before the gate of Sofitel. Never caught my interest to initiate a chat though. I would always speed up when I passed here specifically to avoid any calls or engagement with the LBs standing there as well. Maybe another reason why I never went there apart from inputs by Syzygies.

[B]Soi Cowboy: Baccara / Suzie Wong gogo bars[/B]

I had purposely kept my visit to Soi cowboy for the last night as I wanted to check out and experience the FL scene first in BKK. I started walking towards Soi cowboy around 10.30 pm. Crossed over from the junction. Could see mobile bars or stalls had opened up on the road towards the soi. Didn't bother to check or ask. What is the deal here. Is the hard liquor genuine. Is it safe to drink here. There were quite a few bars leading up to cowboy.

I entered the street. Place was live. First sight was. Lots of east Asians walking around. In groups. Slowly made my way through. Reached SW but thought I should check out Baccara first. Walked towards it. Doormen asked me to go to counter first and buy a beer. Strange. Was not the only one asked too. Others were following the process so did I. Walked in..amazed.there were almost 30 odd girls on stage in white bikinis. All dressed though. Pushed my way inside. This place was packed like hell. Odd thing was despite being full there were not many girls sitting on the sofa with guys. Wanted to know the process more before I could initiate anything. Moved around a complete circle. Had a good look at the girls. My take is that these were the most beautiful and young girls I had seen in any place till now. I was very impressed. Young cuties with lovely smiles and slender bodies. Too much to take in on the first time. I went around again and found a stool to sit near the bard. It was in midst of the service area but the waiters didn't mind. Suddenly a different lot of girls started walking in from the room at the end of the bar and slowly went up on stage. A synchronized process of replacement was taking place. The second lot of girls was also amazing. So in total there would have been approx. 60 – 80 girls that night. Peak timing I guess. Soon some of the girls who were on stage crowded at the bar and were handing out their drink slips. And then moved into the changing room. I was lost and didn't know what to do. A bloke approached me and asked me that is it the same very night now. I told him it was my first night there. He laughed. He had also returned after 8 years to LOS and it was his first night of trip as well. He moved on. I decided to have a smoke and google the modus operandi here. Asked the bargirl. She pointed upwards. Behold there was a glass ceiling and there were further more women dancing in white tops and black minis. I had to get myself upstairs. I went upstairs. Walked towards the bar as that was the only place left with some space. Lit up and had a good look at the girls here. Didn't quite fancy me. Good ones were definitely down. Finished and came down. Back on the stool. Two girls who were earlier dancing on stage were now down and walked towards me. The first one said Hi and introduced the other one as her friend. I had a good look at her. No 102 or 4 I don't remember quite confidently. Cute and good smile. Good body. Seemed to have natural ones. The first one asked me whether I was going to buy them a drink. I smiled back and said I had just walked in and need to settle down on a sofa first. Bar stool was quite uncomfortable. .place had got more corded. I finished my beer and had shortlisted almost 4/5 girls in my mind but there was none to help me out. I decided to step out and go to SW for some time and come back till crowd thinned. I did.

SW was complete opposite. There were approx. 6/7 girls on stage dancing nude wearing only stockings. Could see the drink slips inserted in those stockings. Mamasan caught hold of me. Got me seated. Ordered for beer. There was ample space and time to scan the girls. Liked one on stage. Mamasan got her to me. Her and mamas drinks followed without asking. Was decent cute gal small books but good butt. Had bristles. How could it happen to me twice in the same day. I thought to myself where was I looking when I called for her. She was not going to go with me for sure. In the meantime the show had started. First the girls danced in erotic poses and then smoked from their pussies. Went on for 5 minutes. Unique experience for me. Two white guys had had enough of drinks so they got on the floor. One was holding a small basket of table tennis balls. Thought this must be the act wherein the girls throw the ball from pussies. But no. One guy was throwing the ball in air and the other was heading it towards girl on the stage. All girls clamoured to pick up the ball. Guessed that each ball must be worth 50/100 baht or the girls, mamasan and other waiters wouldn't have gone crazy to grab one. This continued for some time till the basket was empty. Dance continued. I was deciding to leave and stepped out for a smoke. It had started pouring. Went back to stick around for some time and ordered my second beer. Drink for both the girl and mamasan followed. Had little chat with the girl. Nothing interesting. Mamasan asked me whether I wanted to go upstairs boom boom. I refused saying I was too tired and was to go and sleep. Almost over an hour later the two guys with table tennis balls were back on the floor. I called for the bill. Paid and went out. Baccara again. Time really flies here.

I didn't have to buy beer in advance this time. Stepped in. World had transformed. No of girls had reduced drastically. All beauties which I had identified has been barfined and left with their guys. I looked upto the glass ceiling. Nothing much was happening upstairs either. I decided to get a dink anyways. Few moments later some girls came out of the dressing room towards the floor. Didn't seem eager to get up on stage. Could spot the one I had liked earlier. Suprised how she didn't get bar fined yet. She saw me and called her towards me. She came and sat down beside me. Asked her name. Didn't get it but started talking. She was decent looking girl. Could see that she had right sized breast and butt. I asked her if she wanted a drink. She was very happy to hear that as I had denied a drink to her friend earlier. We both toasted and started sipping our drinks. I didn't want to lose her so I asked her if she wanted to go out with me. She smiled and asked whether I was asking to barfine her. I said yes and she had a big smile on her face. In the meantime her friend also joined at our table. I had closd the deal hence had nothing to offer her but a smile. Gave 600 baht to her. She said she would go. Change and come back in 5 minutes. In the meantime her friend got clue that I was on way out. She was back after good 10 minutes dressed in a lovely white dress. Looked very sweet. We walked out. It was still drizzling so took a taxi back to hotel. No meter but flat 100 baht this time. Got her I'd deposited at the reception and onto the room.

Once in the room I apologized for not remembering and asked her name again. She replied Ja. She looked like simple girl. No attitude. Told her to get comfortable. Offer her something to eat and a beer. She was not vey fluent in English but I was going to manage. She went in for a shower. I took one later. Not together. She finished her beer and we were on to bed. Chatted little. She was very interested in knowing about me. Or atleast pretended to. I had a bunch of global to offer. We got clse and I kissed her. Tasted good. Went in for DFK. She was ok. Didn't act like a pro. No tongue or biting lips, etc. Continued for some time. She had firm breasts. Be size naturals. Nipples were erect. I moved my hand towards her mound while continuing with DGK. She had bulged up. I guessed it was going to be a good session. She guided herself kissing me and my chest towards my tool. Went down on my gave me a decent BBBJ. Licking my balls and alternating between balls and shaft. Was going on like GFE. Way I like it. Came back and started DFK. I wanted to get inside her. Handed over the rubber to her. She rolled it on my tool. Asked her for WOT. She guided herself slowly. Slow thrusts. Had begun to drift. Continues for a few minutes between she thrusting few times then I thrusting. Was good. Got her into miss and continued my thrusts into her. DFK and sucking on her naturals. Turned her over on her knees. Got into her and continued for few minutes. Pushed her down completely. And continued. Got her to turn for miss again and continues thrusting. Came within few minutes kissing her. Lied for some time. Fell on side of her. Was happy on the outcome of the session. She got up and went to the shower. She came back and sat on the chair. Was in no hurry to go. I didn't want to ask her to stay back as morning was going to be a rush hour for me. Guess she would have. Talked for some time. Offered her another beer but she didn't want and wanted to leave. So paid her 2. 5 k baht + 300 baht tip. Told her where she could go and pick her I'd as she had started walking in the wrong direction out of the room. Went back to bed contended and relaxed. I will definitely return to bacarra if I want to experience gogo again. Found this to be the best in the city of all places I visited.

[B]November 5 (Day 5: Wednesday)[/B]

I got up at 9. 00 am. Had quick breakfast at the club. Had to reach airport by 11.30 am for my flight to Singapore and another 4 nights of fun. .had pre booked the same camry cab back to airport. But had some baht left which I wanted to convert before leaving for Singapore. Rates are obviously better in the city hence had to do it there. I did not have the time to get to Superrich so I decided to walk towards the place on corner of soi 7/1.recommended by natty I think. Was a good idea anyways. Place is called Vasu. They had the exact same rate as superrich. Got the money exchanged. Got 220 euros in return. Wondered despite spending well I managed to save some money. Would come handy in Singapore as it is a pricey market for mongering. Came back found the cab waiting in the parking area. Went up. Checked out and left for the airport.

Though my stay was short I managed to experience all options possible except Eden. Will try that on my next trip. I have just scratched the surface of this lovely city. I really liked my stay here, girls have been very service oriented. Haven't experienced much of that in Europe yet. Almost all were GFE experiences. Maybe I was lucky. Maybe things work like this here. Girls were very courteous and humble. Once they are with you they devote themselves to you during that period. Biggest plus point and motivation to come back again. I did not pay much attention or negotiate on the prices as I was more keen on the experiences to be gathered. Will need to work on that as well in next trip. I also took some photos of the girls I was with as personal memoir. Won't be posting or sharing them. I will revisit Thailand once before I go to Germany in June next year. Will also visit pattaya that time. Thank you seniors and other forum members for all the inputs / suggestions provided to make this an amazing trip for me.

[QUOTE=Moris54;1643979]Refreshing to read a review that goes into so much detail in the FL Club Scene. Ditto! Must try Spasso in a couple weeks time.[/QUOTE]Thanks Moris54. My plan was to cover lot of FL places in my trip as those interest me more and BKK has them dime a dozen. At the same time I also needed to experience both NEP and Soi Cowboy being my maiden visit. On my next trip I might visit Baccara once but will probably stick to the FL scene. GFE is what I look for.

[QUOTE=IllusionHeart;1643965][B]November 1 (Day 1: Saturday)[/B]
As I came out the taxi guy was standing there. He told me that people of my ethnicity were not allowed entry in Mixx. Decided to take it in stride and move on. He insisted that I check Shock. So asked him to take me there. Was a 10 minute ride. Told the taxi guy to hang around for some time if I didn't like the place and he could take me to some other disco on my list.
[/QUOTE]This incident is a little strange. I was in BKK this January and went to MIXX. Although the club is average at best (and very overrated) as compared to Q-Bar or Levels I never had a issue getting in and I am American of South Asian Descent. I was with an Escort though and maybe that had a part to play in it. I think they also gauge you by how much money you would spend in there and if you are with a girl / escort they may be inclined to believe you will want to impress her, maybe buy bottle service, etc, as opposed to flying solo. Just my two cents on this one.

I need to get from Bangkok to Tel Aviv in January. Should I make the flight reservations before I get there or is it less expensive to do it in Thailand. I would not mind routing through Italy for a few days on the way to see a few sites.

Advise on the best way to go would be very welcome.

Thanks

Agree with Moris. I am Indian from UK and did not have problems getting into MIXX a few months back. Wonder if things have changed!

[QUOTE=Moris54;1644009]This incident is a little strange. I was in BKK this January and went to MIXX. Although the club is average at best (and very overrated) as compared to Q-Bar or Levels I never had a issue getting in and I am American of South Asian Descent. I was with an Escort though and maybe that had a part to play in it. I think they also gauge you by how much money you would spend in there and if you are with a girl / escort they may be inclined to believe you will want to impress her, maybe buy bottle service, etc, as opposed to flying solo. Just my two cents on this one.[/QUOTE]

Great reports IllusionHeart! Especially interesting to get all the details about the FL clubs. Seems like you had a good time. Surprisingly, Insanity was empty the last time I visited it as well. Wonder if that's how it usually is?!

[QUOTE=IllusionHeart;1643980][B]November 3 (Day 3: Monday)[/B]

[B]Insanity: FL bar[/B]

I reached. Paid the 200 baht entry fee .20 baht in the tip box on request from the sweet counter girl. Got in. Place was as big as Shock but had a small dance area in the center compared to the dance stage in shock. Two small podiums (drums) were kept at each corner on left near the bar area with one girl dancing on each. Got myself a JD cola from the bar and took a table. Place was almost empty. Had to be. It was a Monday. How could I forget that. Took a walk across the place. Not much available. Few options but not worth considering. Got myself back and nursed my drink. In the meantime the girls dancing on the drums were swapping each other in 7/10 minute interval. I was sitting close to one of these podium. As soon as the girl stepped down she smiled at me and came to me. She was stinking of beer and tequila. Asked me directly if I could buy her a drink. I was taken aback to which she though that I didn't understand so she hand signaled me for a drink. I refused. She walked away...[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Sunlover2;1643908]I have been on the ground in BKK for a week now. Very little rain 90 F during the day and not too humid. Pleasant at night. All in all very good weather.

SL.[/QUOTE]Lovely, just I wanted to know. Thanks a lot.

Hi all,

I've been to Nataree a bunch of times now, and love the quality of the girls there. Are there any other places with girls of that caliber? I've heard of Poseidon. Is that worth checking out? Been going to Nataree too many times lately and want a change of pace.

Thanks in advance!

[QUOTE=Optional;1644378]Hi all,

I've been to Nataree a bunch of times now, and love the quality of the girls there. Are there any other places with girls of that caliber? I've heard of Poseidon. Is that worth checking out? Been going to Nataree too many times lately and want a change of pace.

Thanks in advance![/QUOTE]Natty Bumpo, Syzygies and some of the well seasoned veterans have considerable experience in soapies. I recall someone likes La Belle, someone else likes Amsterdam and someone doesn't like the place someone else likes; so who knows what to conclude from that.

The thing is, for many years Nataree has been known for having the best looking young girls of any of the soapies. Before the remodel the rooms were crappy and the girls are often inexperienced, but if you're after looks and youth, Nataree is the place to go.

You might try hitting several venues to see if any of the ladies look tasty. Nothing wrong with walking out if no one appeals to you. Think of it as a soapy crawl and as you could order a drink or two at each venue, you could also think of it as an interesting variation on a pub crawl.

[QUOTE=PaulKausch;1644395]Natty Bumpo, Syzygies and some of the well seasoned veterans have considerable experience in soapies. I recall someone likes La Belle, someone else likes Amsterdam and someone doesn't like the place someone else likes; so who knows what to conclude from that.

The thing is, for many years Nataree has been known for having the best looking young girls of any of the soapies. Before the remodel the rooms were crappy and the girls are often inexperienced, but if you're after looks and youth, Nataree is the place to go.

You might try hitting several venues to see if any of the ladies look tasty. Nothing wrong with walking out if no one appeals to you. Think of it as a soapy crawl and as you could order a drink or two at each venue, you could also think of it as an interesting variation on a pub crawl.[/QUOTE]Correct, there are several soapies in and around similar locations. Huay Khwang has Nataree, Hi-Class, Caesar's, Emanuelle (I think Amsterdam and Poseidon aren't too far away). Rama 9 (I have noticed on the way to the airport) has Colonze and Catherin'es (I think, still haven't checked them out). Then there is La Belle (a pink building) just outside of a BTS station (the name slips my mind). Also, if I am not wrong even Annie's is a soapy (but recent reports aren't favourable). Again, for the OP, it is highly recommended that you read the report from Scorcher75 / Shocker (link in the ROD section) who went to several high end soapies and made a good report.

A soapy crawl is an interesting idea LOL, but I am not sure, if the papasans will be too happy for clients to lounge about and have a drink or two. On a busy day in Nataree, the papasan is busy tending to other customers and will not hassle you unless you get up and walk around to check out the sideliners. But on a slow day, he is going to (at least appears to) breathe down your neck to chose and make it quick. Only reason I prefer the stock at Nataree is that they are consistent, pricing structure is easy to understand and basic service is assured. I have not been too impressed with the highly overpriced line up at other places in Huay Khwang (perhaps because I haven't checked out many places recently).

Went to Thermae for first time at 1 am Friday night. Lots of girls, at least 40. Grabbed a beer and made a few rounds.

Nothing outstanding, but a few acceptable girls. Approached one, she wanted 2. 5 k ST and wouldn't budge. Next one no English, her friend said she only went with Japanese guys.

Then a nice looking girl walks in and I go straight up to her. Short, pale, long brown hair. Says she's Malaysian, she looks part European. We agree 2 k for ST with BBBJ, 500 tip if it goes well.

Walk to my hotel, have a good talk, she seems nice. She says she's 25. Undress her and we shower together.

Blowjob is quick but fine, I go to stick it in her. She says can't, too big. Ergh. Fine I say, just blowjob, but 1500 baht. No, she still wants 2500. Agree on 2000, I don't care by this point. She sucks for about 10 seconds then switches to hand. I tell her to keep using her mouth, she gets very upset. Big fight, she wants me to go to police station with her. I tell her no, offer her 1000 to just leave, she refuses. I say I won't give her more unless she continues the blowjob, and eventually she agrees.

Bit hard to enjoy myself after that, but eventually finished in her mouth. To her credit the blowjob was at least quite good. Gave her 2000, glad to get rid of her.

[QUOTE=AstoneSalt;1644795]Went to Thermae for first time at 1 am Friday night. Lots of girls, at least 40. Grabbed a beer and made a few rounds.

Nothing outstanding, but a few acceptable girls. Approached one, she wanted 2. 5 k ST and wouldn't budge. Next one no English, her friend said she only went with Japanese guys.

Then a nice looking girl walks in and I go straight up to her. Short, pale, long brown hair. Says she's Malaysian, she looks part European. We agree 2 k for ST with BBBJ, 500 tip if it goes well.

Walk to my hotel, have a good talk, she seems nice. She says she's 25. Undress her and we shower together.

Blowjob is quick but fine, I go to stick it in her. She says can't, too big. Ergh. Fine I say, just blowjob, but 1500 baht. No, she still wants 2500. Agree on 2000, I don't care by this point. She sucks for about 10 seconds then switches to hand. I tell her to keep using her mouth, she gets very upset. Big fight, she wants me to go to police station with her. I tell her no, offer her 1000 to just leave, she refuses. I say I won't give her more unless she continues the blowjob, and eventually she agrees.

Bit hard to enjoy myself after that, but eventually finished in her mouth. To her credit the blowjob was at least quite good. Gave her 2000, glad to get rid of her.[/QUOTE]A lot of these girls want to give McDonald's type of service for the price of a juicy New York Steak. Not on my watch. 2 k for just a BJ way too much but under your circumstances a bit understandable.

I'm getting too old for this shit.

Anyway, for what it's worth CM2 is open again. I didn't visit just got the info, I think they are using half the space and shutting it down by midnight. Some kind of battle of the bands thing. I think this is just basically baby steps towards reopening it and returning to the normal flow once the storm has passed from the bad press mojo they had.

Saturday.

I went to Insanity. It was mostly empty. Not an attractive girl to be found in there. Fat dancers. I left.

I went to Bossy.

LOL.

95% men. About 7 or 8 girls really and a hundred plus men. Those girls were enormous. Highlight of the evening was Indian guys up on the stage dancing. Hats off to you dudes for having fun.

I went to Mixx. Quite full, better ratio but can't say I saw a really attractive girl in the entire place. One blonde was pushing for 7 and she was turning down offers left and right. I could possibly have overlooked one, or two, but no more.

I went to Fashion Cafe on a whim rather than getting in a taxi to go home. Filled with pouty white second rate models looking bored and staring at their phones. For every three of them was one pouty white male model. It was quite hilarious and the saddest scene of all that I saw. All the models, hey, let's go to Fashion Cafe, stare at our phones and look bored. What a fun night out for us all. Then there was me and a couple of other random non-sequitur people. Maybe they were all paid for being there. The only Thai girl in there tried to talk to me but I couldn't hear her over the music and she smelled bad.

I left and got food and went home rather happy. Highlight of the night was the Indian guys dancing.

What has happened to BKK, this town used to be better than this.

[QUOTE=Tptp76;1644025]Agree with Moris. I am Indian from UK and did not have problems getting into MIXX a few months back. Wonder if things have changed![/QUOTE]I can't imagine anyone having problems getting into Mixx. When I was there it was a pretty full cross section of planet earth. I don't find Mixx pretentious and I don't see that they have an attitude where they are going to try to exclude anyone unless that someone shows up dressed stupidly (t-shirt, shorts, flipflops). Wear a nice shirt and jeans and dress shoes and I think everyone is welcome. It's not special or snooty, just another club.

Here's a glimps of my short visit and thoughts to BKK.

I was in BKK last week and have been going through a lousy jet lag process this past week. My last time in BKK was early 2010 and I did have a great time, I then went to Pattaya for a week and had a better time. My next trip (6 months later) to Asia was to the PI and after the PI I have never been back to BKK until now. There's something about the Philippines and I have really good life long filipino friends in my hometown so I connected to the PI quite strongly.

So now almost 5 years later I am still mongering between So America and the PI mainly, I wasn't thinking Thailand at all but now things in my mind have changed.

A close friend from my old neighborhood has picked up and moved to Chang Mai. I decided to meet him in BKK as part of a bigger trip to Australia then Thailand. After Australia I took my wife to Phuket for 5 days thinking beach time and a little mongering on the side. There's a lengthy Socker TR in the Phuket forum if interested but Phuket turned out to be a joke, tourist town yes, mongering is weak imo. So my last 3 days were spent in BKK and to meet my childhood buddy who is going to Thai language school and has a nice place w / live in GF in CM.

Mind you I am at the age where my thoughts and hopes are to find a place I can retire part time. A place acceptable to my wife and that has ample quality pussy available nearby, w / a beach nearby (the perfect world). Suprisingly so far in my travels BKK is the closest place to my ideal, I was very surprised. I was shocked at how awesome the city was and how I was constantly the target of nice looking Thai ladies. The clubs on Soi Cowboy were equal or better than their counterparts on Burgos, price wise not so much. There were bars w / pool tables you could chill in and let the pussy come to you and then the Go Gos where there was extremely pretty women available. Prices were bit of a joke, 3000 baht for bar 2000 baht for the girl and the top girls might not go w / you. So the Go Gos were a questionable source of good GFE fun. I only spent one night there and did partake of a bargirl at Country Roads. I got lucky w / her bbing otherwise it was cover only for FS. The Country Rd barfine was 400 baht and the lady was more then happy w / 2000 baht. I probably over paid but she was so fresh and sweet.

Later on when you think the nights over and you leave the girly bars you might find yourself at a megshift mobile bar on Sukhumvit. This happened to me and my bud one night. We leave and are stumbling around at 1:30 am and there are 3 ladies at this bar in a parking spot on Sukhumvit. A few drinks later and 2 of the 3 are fucking my brains out at a ST hotel a block away. These 2 were late twenties and just on fire after a few drinks, we had an awesome fuck session. My friend ended up w / the 3rd lady so I walked about 6 blocks back to my hotel at 4:30 am, big smile, back to the wife and happy.

Before I left Thailand I had to return to the Nana Plaza and so I did on my last night and what a change that Soi went through. Four and a half years ago the Soi was a dirty shit street and now it could have been a street in NY off Time Square. The Soi was cleaned up and built up w / new bar after new bar or restaurant. Finally get to NP and it to has been renovated but the layout is still the same, kind of. The women quality here was quite fantastic, many 8"s (or BETTER) dancing on stage but most were drink sluts or looking for Mr K or the like.

So anyway, Thailand is back on my map, lots of top quality pussy w / very little crime in the streets.

Maybe I'm dreaming but I have doubts about AC and the PI in general. In AC there might be 3 8's in the whole town and they certainly won't go w / me. Also the stupid PI laws that are constantly being applied, bar raids, FL scamming. The PI is just a more desperate mongering locale than Thailand it seems to me right now.

Thailand had the better looking pussy, the better food, the better transportation, the safer streets at 2 am. and I have to say there was a lot to like. The one thing that wasn't equal was the friendliness of the ladies hired from the Go Gos. The PI is still # 1 in my favorite nuances w / sweet nice ladies but BKK was a powerful experience. I could see myself living there for a few months a year. I will do some further retirement recon late 2015.

Here's a pic of my late night surprise at a mobile bar on Sukhumvit.

[QUOTE=Socker;1644979]
Mind you I am at the age where my thoughts and hopes are to find a place I can retire part time. A place acceptable to my wife and that has ample quality pussy available nearby, w / a beach nearby (the perfect world). Suprisingly so far in my travels BKK is the closest place to my ideal, I was very surprised. I was shocked at how awesome the city was and how I was constantly the target of nice looking Thai ladies. Maybe I'm dreaming but I have doubts about AC and the PI in general. In AC there might be 3 8's in the whole town and they certainly won't go w / me. Also the stupid PI laws that are constantly being applied, bar raids, FL scamming. The PI is just a more desperate mongering locale than Thailand it seems to me right now.

Thailand had the better looking pussy, the better food, the better transportation, the safer streets at 2 am. and I have to say there was a lot to like. The one thing that wasn't equal was the friendliness of the ladies hired from the Go Gos. The PI is still # 1 in my favorite nuances w / sweet nice ladies but BKK was a powerful experience. I could see myself living there for a few months a year. I will do some further retirement recon late 2015.

[/QUOTE]I have been spending much of my time in Bangkok for the past 10 years, more and more each year, and after spending the past 7 weeks in the US visiting family all I can say is that Bangkok is the greatest place on God's Earth! Nothing even close. Even ignoring the girls available, which in truth is not what it used to be, Bangkok is just a great place to live. It has almost everything you could want. The deeper you dig, the more it has. I spent years going all around the world looking for a home to retire to and Bangkok won hands down. I can't think of living anywhere else. But of course it's not for everyone.

Went to Dr BJs today. Early afternoon on a Sunday so only 7 girls to pick from, all at the 1000 baht level.

Go with X, as recommended by mamasan. Mistake.

Over and over and over through the session she would stop and ask me if I would give her 500 baht to take her top off, if a HJ was OK, if I wanted to pay another 1000 baht to switch ladies, etc. Over and over no matter how many times I said no. Completely impossible to enjoy.

Eventually, before the 30 minutes are up, she says she's tired. Wants to stop. There is 0 chance I am going to finish with this girl, so that's just fine with me. Go and complain to the mamasan about her, she at least is polite and apologetic, promises a better experience next time. Pay and leave.

Got more upset than I should have, it's only 1000 baht, but wow what a bad experience. I wanted to like the place, everything but the girl was nice.

[QUOTE=Margaya;1642531]Or is it still raining everyday? A lot or just a short downpour? Can anyone please let me know?

Thanks in advance.[/QUOTE]Margaya,

Rain every day is part of being in Thailand. You just have to assume it will rain for a short time. This is the best time to be there now because not as much rain. If you go doing the rainy season like in September the rain does not stop.

I finally am back home and left my Vietnam and Thailand vacation. I did want to post that now Bangkok has a ton of freelancers now. More more than October. I was having so much fun I did not want to leave.

Raja hotel- I splurged and went with like 6 Russian girls doing my trip. The cost is 2600 or 3100. But once you pay 3100 once the 2600 fee seems to disappear. So try to remember the faces when they first tell you prices. One guy I was taking with was quoted 3600 baut. Anyway, the Russian girls and some Ukraine were extremely beautiful. I got my money worth with each girl. I was never rushed. Much better service than my previous experiences with the raja girls. One Russian girl let me bang her for an hour straight and even started to kiss me. I asked her at the end why she spend so much time with me? She said "what do I have to go back to go sit and wait for customers. " such a fun time.

Grace hotel- the majority of girls that work there are non Thai and work sitting in the coffee shop inside the hotel waiting for customers. The girls were average looking some really pretty. I approached one girl and she wanted 3000 baut. They just want to much money her. I just walked. As I was leaving. Because I was the only non Muslim in the hotel I would get dirty looks from the Muslims. As I walked out the door of the hotel 5 Muslims were walking in and one guy gave me this evil look like I just beat his mom and he was going to kill me. How can someone be so angry in Thailand? Anyway huge amour of Muslim tourists in Bangkok. In front of grace hotel two muslim woman covered head to toe in outfit were working and try to get me to go with them. They were not hot and overweight but I could not even imagine walking with them in front of the Muslim guys. I don't know what would happen and I don't want to find out.

[QUOTE=Protocol;1644974]I can't imagine anyone having problems getting into Mixx. When I was there it was a pretty full cross section of planet earth. I don't find Mixx pretentious and I don't see that they have an attitude where they are going to try to exclude anyone unless that someone shows up dressed stupidly (t-shirt, shorts, flipflops). Wear a nice shirt and jeans and dress shoes and I think everyone is welcome. It's not special or snooty, just another club.[/QUOTE]Protocol. I was as dressed in equally good attire I. E. Full sleeved shirt, jeans and moccasins, hair well done, wearing expensive perfume had 10 k baht on me to spend that night. This was good enough to get me into Spasso, Climax, Shock 39 and Insanity on earlier and later nights. Mixx guys exercised their right of admission. I found it racist and this is my personal opinion. One thing is for sure that they are definitely not going to get a minute of my time or a single thai baht in future. I don't care if it matters to them or not.

Hi guys,

I will be in Bangkok in 3 days.

First time visiting.

Was wondering if anyone has any recommendation for good outcall.

I will be staying at the Grand Hyatt.

Feel free to PM me contact details.

Note: I prefer tall, curvy (not fat), athletic.

Thanks!

[QUOTE=DRRonin;1645027]I have been spending much of my time in Bangkok for the past 10 years, more and more each year, and after spending the past 7 weeks in the US visiting family all I can say is that Bangkok is the greatest place on God's Earth! Nothing even close. Even ignoring the girls available, which in truth is not what it used to be, Bangkok is just a great place to live. It has almost everything you could want. The deeper you dig, the more it has. I spent years going all around the world looking for a home to retire to and Bangkok won hands down. I can't think of living anywhere else. But of course it's not for everyone.[/QUOTE]After 15 years I still like living in BKK. The gals are not so much of a draw anymore, but there is plenty in this city. The food alone is enough to keep me happy. BKK is twice as expensive as it was when I moved here, but it is still ok value compared to other cities its size.

That being said there are some minuses. Things I don't like- The climate. I just don't like the heat and humidity. Grew up in a place with a long hot summer and prefer cooler weather. As I age (closing in on 50) the humidity bothers me more. The pollution. The air in BKK is bad. After 15 years my sinuses are in rough shape. If you have allergies the pollen hooks onto the particulates in the air and is constantly at you. The traffic. Gets worse and worse. Having a motorbike is the only way to get around. The fact that you will always be viewed as an outsider and will never be able to participate in the society here. Can be good as well, I guess. But this is why I refuse to buy a condo here. They can change the rules in a flash. Currently they are looking at redoing the ruled for nominee companies. The Japanese Chamber of Commerce has already come out and said many businesses will leave if they do. You have to be able to live with the fact that the locals just don't like you. I think this is a bit better in some upcountry places and worse in Pattaya and Phuket. Another double edged sword is the pace of change in BKK. It is an amazingly dynamic city. It changes in the blink of an eye. Some changes have been great, for instance the number of boutique coffee roasters that have popped up over the last two years. Some not so great, including the changes in the P4 P scene. Sadly some of the things that one likes can be gone tomorrow.

[QUOTE=Socker;1644979]Thailand had the better looking pussy, the better food, the better transportation, the safer streets at 2 am. and I have to say there was a lot to like. The one thing that wasn't equal was the friendliness of the ladies hired from the Go Gos. The PI is still # 1 in my favorite nuances w / sweet nice ladies but BKK was a powerful experience. I could see myself living there for a few months a year. I will do some further retirement recon late 2015.
[/QUOTE]They have food in the PI? All kidding aside, I agree with you. I would go nuts in a place like Angeles. Too much human detritus on the streets. Pattaya is pretty bad in that respect but Angeles is worse.

I will tell you that lower Suk kind of sucks as a place to live. Tourists, working girls, and all that goes along with both are there. Moving farther out is a good thing.

[QUOTE=CallMeTony;1645416]Hi guys,

I will be in Bangkok in 3 days.

Thanks![/QUOTE]Tony, you can take the lift to the basement of hyatt. Spasso club. Good selection of local talent. Prices range 4 to 5 k baht for ST.

When I come back to my country from Thailand. Sometimes the officers mess with me. Sometimes asking me how much the woman are over there now? My answer is I would not know.

This time when they ask me "why I went there?" I just said vacation. "he said do you know anyone in Thailand? " I say yes. " So you went to see your friends?" No I just went on vacation. As he's giving me a questionable look like that does not make sense. I was praying they would not go through my phone with pictures of me and all these Thai girls.

My goal is going to be Thailand Two times a year. I am thinking about saying to immigration officers I have a Thai girl friend. But wondering if that will open up a can of worms. Like where does she live ect?

What do you guys say why you went?

Heading into Bangkok in December but noticed that EE (Goon) is no longer on the website. She gives one of the best BBBJ's I've ever had so her absence is depressing. Does anyone know if she's moved on to another shop or quit the business altogether?

[QUOTE=TomSf;1645575]What do you guys say why you went?[/QUOTE]I tell them food and sightseeing.

Relax, did you break any laws? Are you bring back anything illegal? Did you fail to declare stuff you bought in Thailand? If you're clean there is nothing to worry about. They're looking for abnormal reactions. Don't get cute or smug. Just be yourself.

They've never asked me about Thai women. If they did, I'd probably give an honest answer.

[QUOTE=IllusionHeart;1645495]Tony, you can take the lift to the basement of hyatt. Spasso club. Good selection of local talent. Prices range 4 to 5 k baht for ST.[/QUOTE]Thanks! I'll make sure I check this out.

Will write my feedback in due course.

[QUOTE=TomSf;1645575]When I come back to my country from Thailand. Sometimes the officers mess with me. Sometimes asking me how much the woman are over there now? My answer is I would not know.

This time when they ask me "why I went there?" I just said vacation. "he said do you know anyone in Thailand? " I say yes. " So you went to see your friends?" No I just went on vacation. As he's giving me a questionable look like that does not make sense. I was praying they would not go through my phone with pictures of me and all these Thai girls.

My goal is going to be Thailand Two times a year. I am thinking about saying to immigration officers I have a Thai girl friend. But wondering if that will open up a can of worms. Like where does she live ect?

What do you guys say why you went?[/QUOTE]They are really just making conversation while profiling and assessing you. They are looking at your natural tells, and trying to figure out if you are any sort of risk. Although they may seem like amateurs, they are highly trained pros looking for folks that are drug mules, money launderers, sex traffickers, etc.

So your best course of action is always tell the truth while looking them directly in the eyes. There is nothing illegal about going to Thailand for rest and relaxation, so that's exactly what I tell them. It always brings a smile to their face, and they usually ask about the food and the women. When I tell them that I love both, they become envious and allow me entrance back into the country. Sometimes they ask specifics, and I've never, ever, had a problem.

Why tell them anything else? They will surely know that you are lying, and you can subject yourself to a whole lot of unpleasant procedures and delays, including luggage searches and body searches.

The truth will set you free. .

[QUOTE=TomSf;1645575]When I come back to my country from Thailand. Sometimes the officers mess with me. Sometimes asking me how much the woman are over there now? My answer is I would not know.

This time when they ask me "why I went there?" I just said vacation. "he said do you know anyone in Thailand? " I say yes. " So you went to see your friends?" No I just went on vacation. As he's giving me a questionable look like that does not make sense. I was praying they would not go through my phone with pictures of me and all these Thai girls.

My goal is going to be Thailand Two times a year. I am thinking about saying to immigration officers I have a Thai girl friend. But wondering if that will open up a can of worms. Like where does she live ect?

What do you guys say why you went?[/QUOTE]You live in a strange country where the immigration officers ask that kind of questions from returning citizens.

[QUOTE=Wolvenvacht;1645779]You live in a strange country where the immigration officers ask that kind of questions from returning citizens.[/QUOTE]Dude, you have no idea. Be careful or you will start me on a long-winded rant. All I'll say is that I've visited a number of Communist, totalitarian countries and have never been treated as poorly as when I return to the USA.

[QUOTE=TomSf;1645575]When I come back to my country from Thailand. Sometimes the officers mess with me. Sometimes asking me how much the woman are over there now? My answer is I would not know.

This time when they ask me "why I went there?" I just said vacation. "he said do you know anyone in Thailand? " I say yes. " So you went to see your friends?" No I just went on vacation. As he's giving me a questionable look like that does not make sense. I was praying they would not go through my phone with pictures of me and all these Thai girls.

My goal is going to be Thailand Two times a year. I am thinking about saying to immigration officers I have a Thai girl friend. But wondering if that will open up a can of worms. Like where does she live ect?

What do you guys say why you went?[/QUOTE]Sometimes you get an asshole who likes to fuck with people. I think it gives them a power trip. These CBP guys are maybe one step up from DHS weenies, but with bigger egos. For the most part, these guys couldn't catch a cold. They're highly trained, expert questioners who can spot a drug mule a mile away. They have expert K9 teams sniffing luggage. They have gold-plated pensions. An yet, drugs are easier to get in the USA than before the bazillion-dollar "War on Drugs" started in the '80's.

You can minimize some of this by enrolling in the GOES program. They tend not to ask many, or any, questions. However, I still routinely run into assholes (and nice guys, too) when crossing the Tijuana border by car. Damn, if middle-aged SENTRI holders, in older sedans are the MO of most drug smugglers, why is it so hard to catch them?

But more to your question, the truth is fine. They're not the morality police. Unless you have pix of you kiddy fiddling, or a suitcase full of hash, you'll be OK. You can certainly say you were visiting friends, or your girlfriend. I've used those reasons many times. They can't ask for names and addresses, etc. You would do well to store any XXX pix on a cloud service, or something, and NOT have them available on your computer or phone.

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1645789]Dude, you have no idea. Be careful or you will start me on a long-winded rant. All I'll say is that I've visited a number of Communist, totalitarian countries and have never been treated as poorly as when I return to the USA.[/QUOTE]I second that comment. If I was Muslim or and illegal alien I would probably be fine. No other country but USA has ever giving me any issues.

[QUOTE=Wolvenvacht;1645779]You live in a strange country where the immigration officers ask that kind of questions from returning citizens.[/QUOTE]This has a lot to do with certain feminist movements rampant in the USA who have sufficient power to lobby congress to mandate immigration officials to ask questions and even search the belongings of men coming back from countries with a high instance of P4 P. They feel like they are loosing their grip on power if men can freely travel for sex, and sometimes instruct such officials to extract a lot of personal information from the traveler and relay it back to his community / family which in turn can be used as ammo for multi million dollar divorce settlements for some women.

[QUOTE=Wolvenvacht;1645779]You live in a strange country where the immigration officers ask that kind of questions from returning citizens.[/QUOTE]And I thought Belgium was a strange country (only joking of course).

But seriously: I see this happening in European countries as well in the near future. More and more European countries are implementing anti-prostitution laws and I think a witch hunt for sex tourists will be the next step.

If you don't have a criminal record I recommend that you apply for global entry, in the 4 years since I hade this permit it takes more than 5 minutes to get thru immigration (a kiosk) and customs.

I never ever had anyone asked me anything, I had traveled all over the world and have, t seen a more efficient and better systems than this. And as added benefit automatically you qualify for the TSA pre which allows you to go thou security with lot less hassles.

[QUOTE=TomSf;1645575]When I come back to my country from Thailand. Sometimes the officers mess with me. Sometimes asking me how much the woman are over there now? My answer is I would not know.

This time when they ask me "why I went there?" I just said vacation. "he said do you know anyone in Thailand? " I say yes. " So you went to see your friends?" No I just went on vacation. As he's giving me a questionable look like that does not make sense. I was praying they would not go through my phone with pictures of me and all these Thai girls.

My goal is going to be Thailand Two times a year. I am thinking about saying to immigration officers I have a Thai girl friend. But wondering if that will open up a can of worms. Like where does she live ect?

What do you guys say why you went?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=PointyStick;1645657]Heading into Bangkok in December but noticed that EE (Goon) is no longer on the website. She gives one of the best BBBJ's I've ever had so her absence is depressing. Does anyone know if she's moved on to another shop or quit the business altogether?[/QUOTE]Fear not Pointy. Despite the fact her picture is no longer on the web site she still works at the Salon.

Regards,

BJ

[QUOTE=TomSf;1645575]What do you guys say why you went?[/QUOTE]Vacation.

SL.

[QUOTE=Protocol;1644972]I'm getting too old for this shit.

I went to Fashion Cafe on a whim rather than getting in a taxi to go home. Filled with pouty white second rate models looking bored and staring at their phones. For every three of them was one pouty white male model. It was quite hilarious and the saddest scene of all that I saw. All the models, hey, let's go to Fashion Cafe, stare at our phones and look bored. What a fun night out for us all. Then there was me and a couple of other random non-sequitur people. Maybe they were all paid for being there. The only Thai girl in there tried to talk to me but I couldn't hear her over the music and she smelled bad.
.[/QUOTE]Fashion café never hear about this place.

Can anyone give a more specific location?

Thanks.

[QUOTE=CallMeTony;1645416]Hi guys,

I will be in Bangkok in 3 days.

First time visiting.

Was wondering if anyone has any recommendation for good outcall.

I will be staying at the Grand Hyatt.

Feel free to PM me contact details.

Note: I prefer tall, curvy (not fat), athletic.

Thanks![/QUOTE]If you go, from 11 pm down to the basement you can find Spasso's club.

Many nice looking and clasic girls their but expensive as well.

Many of them they are more than willing to go up to your room.

On Friday an Saturday its really packed with people, on these days there are more "freelancer" girl who still ask professional fees.

Enjoy your stay.

[QUOTE=Calvito;1645900]If you don't have a criminal record I recommend that you apply for global entry, in the 4 years since I hade this permit it takes more than 5 minutes to get thru immigration (a kiosk) and customs.[/QUOTE]Thumbs up to Global Entry. Fast and includes preTSA check in many airlines / airports.

[QUOTE=Socker;1644979]Maybe I'm dreaming but I have doubts about AC and the PI in general. In AC there might be 3 8's in the whole town and they certainly won't go w / me. Also the stupid PI laws that are constantly being applied, bar raids, FL scamming. The PI is just a more desperate mongering locale than Thailand it seems to me right now.

Thailand had the better looking pussy, the better food, the better transportation, the safer streets at 2 am. and I have to say there was a lot to like. The one thing that wasn't equal was the friendliness of the ladies hired from the Go Gos. The PI is still # 1 in my favorite nuances w / sweet nice ladies but BKK was a powerful experience. I could see myself living there for a few months a year. I will do some further retirement recon late 2015.[/QUOTE]You are not alone in thinking these things. In certain regards BKK is a heaven on earth & easily beats the PI.

Therefore I've never been to the PI & for various reasons have no intentions of ever doing so.

I also enjoy 1st world English speaking Singapore. It offers more variety (such as GFE PI gals), hotter ladies & greater safety than Siam.

Like BKK, in Singapore it is a never ending summer without any cold, ice or snow to ever encounter when one goes out. And plenty of air conditioned places to go to & be in when one does.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1646161]You are not alone in thinking these things. In certain regards BKK is a heaven on earth & easily beats the PI.

Therefore I've never been to the PI & for various reasons have no intentions of ever doing so.

I also enjoy 1st world English speaking Singapore. It offers more variety (such as GFE PI gals), hotter ladies & greater safety than Siam.

Like BKK, in Singapore it is a never ending summer without any cold, ice or snow to ever encounter when one goes out. And plenty of air conditioned places to go to & be in when one does.[/QUOTE]I do like Sing. But your last paragraph is my biggest complaint about life in SE Asia. Since I grew up in an area with a very hot summer, I don't like the heat and humidity (Sing is a horror show when it comes to humidity) and find it more and more oppressive each year as I age. I miss seasonal weather and would take it 45 degrees F over 95 degrees F any day.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1646231]I do like Sing. But your last paragraph is my biggest complaint about life in SE Asia. Since I grew up in an area with a very hot summer, I don't like the heat and humidity (Sing is a horror show when it comes to humidity) and find it more and more oppressive each year as I age. I miss seasonal weather and would take it 45 degrees F over 95 degrees F any day.[/QUOTE]If you lived in lower Sukhumvit everything you could ever imagine needing is within a few minutes walk with air conditioned shops galore. Ten minutes by foot from NEP is the BTS that jets one all over the city to mega malls & whatever one could dream of. Though you might want to take a sweater or light jacket as it gets a bit chilly in there. Ditto for night spots like Thermae.

If one can't tolerate any heat at all, even for 5 minutes, getting a taxi with air conditioning in the RLD gogo area of Nana in BKK is so easy to do, just like picking up TGs, and extremely cheap. Like 10 times less expensive than Western or Japanese standards.

For seasonal destinations in SEA, there is Hanoi. The Vietnam capitol has 4 seasons. I found IME it also offers significantly hotter women & better hotel value than BKK which is already dirt cheap relative to places like Hong Kong, Tokyo or Macau.

Any massage joints worth trying near MBK? Looking for Soapy or Sandwich / 4 hands massage. Something memorable to remember BKK by. .

[QUOTE=ShyGuy69;1646471]Any massage joints worth trying near MBK? Looking for Soapy or Sandwich / 4 hands massage. Something memorable to remember BKK by. .[/QUOTE]Take a short walk. There are some massage shops opposite the Novotel (side entrance). Next to the hotel patisserie, bread shop. Amazing girls, you can choose, do them there or take them to your hotel (they get free around 11 pm).

About 200/300 bht counter. And 2/2. 5 k for everything else.

Damn those sexy uniforms!

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1646343]If you lived in lower Sukhumvit everything you could ever imagine needing is within a few minutes walk with air conditioned shops galore. Ten minutes by foot from NEP is the BTS that jets one all over the city to mega malls & whatever one could dream of. Though you might want to take a sweater or light jacket as it gets a bit chilly in there. Ditto for night spots like Thermae.

If one can't tolerate any heat at all, even for 5 minutes, getting a taxi with air conditioning in the RLD gogo area of Nana in BKK is so easy to do, just like picking up TGs, and extremely cheap. Like 10 times less expensive than Western or Japanese standards.

For seasonal destinations in SEA, there is Hanoi. The Vietnam capitol has 4 seasons. I found IME it also offers significantly hotter women & better hotel value than BKK which is already dirt cheap relative to places like Hong Kong, Tokyo or Macau.[/QUOTE]Pink, I have lived in lower Suk for 15 years and the amount of human detritus on the streets just gets worse and worse every year. When I moved to BKK I '99 you mainly saw western tourists and western mongers in the lower suk area. Now it is a hodge podge of Arabs and other various UEOs (folks of Unidentified Ethnic Origin). Many of these folks are amazingly ill mannered. No wonder the Thais in this area are so aggressive towards foreigners. One nice thing though are the gorgeous Korean and Chinese tourists. Lots in the hotel across the street from me. But all are with their boy band looking boyfriends sadly.

When my lease is up I will move to Thonglor, Ekkamai, or maybe Yen Akart. Nice residential areas that are still in the center of the city but away from the suk tourists.

Been to the South but have never been to Hanoi. Will check it out!

And no, aircon just does not cut it. The humidity is still present. Most of the time well in excess of 50%, which I find is the magic number. Less than 50% I feel pretty good, no matter how hot it is. Over 50% and it is oppressive. The last two days the humidity has finally abated and boy do I feel different. Mentally, physically, emotionally. Its like a weight has been lifted off my body.

I only take taxis when I have to. I have a motorbike. Put 55,000 kilometers on it riding around the streets of BKK. Most of the places I eat are in our of the way places. Perhaps the biggest drawback of lower suk is there is really no good Thai food in this area. Just crapola for the tourists. Most tourists would not even enter the restaurants that we eat at. But, pop on the bike and I can be to good food in 15 min.

Living here full time is a very different experience than coming as a tourist. Even if you are a three month a year tourist.

Looking to fine nice place near Asia hotel.

[QUOTE=PointyStick;1645657]Heading into Bangkok in December but noticed that EE (Goon) is no longer on the website. She gives one of the best BBBJ's I've ever had so her absence is depressing. Does anyone know if she's moved on to another shop or quit the business altogether?[/QUOTE]I believe she has exited the business, she mentioned that was her intention last time I saw her.

[QUOTE=DrBJ;1646006]Fear not Pointy. Despite the fact her picture is no longer on the web site she still works at the Salon.

Regards,

BJ[/QUOTE]Cheers. Thanks for the post. I do note that there are a number of other girls I have not tried so I will obviously be kept busy.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1646645]Living here full time is a very different experience than coming as a tourist. Even if you are a three month a year tourist.[/QUOTE]I expect most tourists to the lower sukh RLD would love to live there year round. They need only compare it with the extremely pathetic locations they arrived from. They'd be like kids who got to live in the candy shop, with free access to all its goods.

I haven't noticed the non Western tourists around NEP being any worse or better than before. As I don't mingle with them or go where they are most numerous & mind my own business, I barely notice they even exist at all, period. Do you spend a lot of time lounging at the Grace Hotel, LOL? If you think a few of them are bad, imagine what you'd experience living in the countries they come from. Better to stick with LOS.

OTOH, if one has lost much of their mojo or is content to autoeroticize for the rest of their life, or explore non PFP options in their origin country, like first world Canada, for example, then maybe SEA has lost most of its value as a place to visit or live. And it's time to head home for a while, if not forever.

If a doctor can't help you with the heat issues you face in BKK, then a move to Seattle, home of the Super Bowl champions, should do the trick. Though I doubt there is anyone suffering from such due to riding on the BTS in the City of Angels.

While the wife is shopping I was wondering about anything near Pratunam?

Taxied to [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord900][CodeWord900][/url] isn; t bad, but hoping for a closer BBBJ!

Thanks.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1646794]I expect most tourists to the lower sukh RLD would love to live there year round. They need only compare it with the extremely pathetic locations they arrived from. They'd be like kids who got to live in the candy shop, with free access to all its goods.

I haven't noticed the non Western tourists around NEP being any worse or better than before. As I don't mingle with them or go where they are most numerous & mind my own business, I barely notice they even exist at all, period. Do you spend a lot of time lounging at the Grace Hotel, LOL? If you think a few of them are bad, imagine what you'd experience living in the countries they come from. Better to stick with LOS.

OTOH, if one has lost much of their mojo or is content to autoeroticize for the rest of their life, or explore non PFP options in their origin country, like first world Canada, for example, then maybe SEA has lost most of its value as a place to visit or live. And it's time to head home for a while, if not forever.

If a doctor can't help you with the heat issues you face in BKK, then a move to Seattle, home of the Super Bowl champions, should do the trick. Though I doubt there is anyone suffering from such due to riding on the BTS in the City of Angels.[/QUOTE]Dude, the change in demographics in lower Suk over a 10 year period has been shocking. For a visitor, it really does not matter, but some of us live here full time.

No way I would even visit most of the nations those folks come from.

BKK is still the best food city on the planet.

Seattle is way to wet. San Diego, Boulder, drier climes for me.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1646871]Dude, the change in demographics in lower Suk over a 10 year period has been shocking. For a visitor, it really does not matter, but some of us live here full time.

No way I would even visit most of the nations those folks come from.

BKK is still the best food city on the planet.

Seattle is way to wet. San Diego, Boulder, drier climes for me.[/QUOTE]Sorry to be rude. But what makes you think you are superior to these guys you are talking about? They come here on their own money. Just because their behavior is different from yours. And probably more customers have driven up prices doesn't let you start ranting about their countries.

[QUOTE=Moris54;1645857]This has a lot to do with certain feminist movements rampant in the USA who have sufficient power to lobby congress to mandate immigration officials to ask questions and even search the belongings of men coming back from countries with a high instance of P4 P. They feel like they are loosing their grip on power if men can freely travel for sex, and sometimes instruct such officials to extract a lot of personal information from the traveler and relay it back to his community / family which in turn can be used as ammo for multi million dollar divorce settlements for some women.[/QUOTE]Aren't we being a little paranoid here?

Immigration officials are not likely being bossed around by feminists. I suppose you imagine these women all being dressed in overalls and having short hair?

If you're afraid of having your phone checked for pictures (which is illegal under privacy laws) then transfer them to a memory stick or memory card.

Relax.

Ko.

[QUOTE=KoperenKarel;1646910]Aren't we being a little paranoid here?

Immigration officials are not likely being bossed around by feminists. I suppose you imagine these women all being dressed in overalls and having short hair?

If you're afraid of having your phone checked for pictures (which is illegal under privacy laws) then transfer them to a memory stick or memory card.

Relax.

Ko.[/QUOTE]I was quizzed heavily by a young guy at UK Customs (not Immigration) when I returned from my last trip. I could see him eying me as I walked along the corridor, so was prepared to be stopped. He was clearly bored, and was weighing up whether to inject some excitement into his life by searching my bag, compared with the clear knowledge that it would be a disappointment. He asked me about where I had been (Singapore and Thailand), why I had been there (work and holiday), and if I had brought anything back (yes, cooking spices). The last revelation persuaded him that I wasn't a drug mule, but a sad lonely old man with a taste for spicy food, and he nodded be on. I maintained a cheery disposition, despite worrying that an inspection of my bag would reveal three sex toys, a lifetime's supply of Viagra, and a wholesale box of condoms (unused). i also managed to make some fun videos this trip, which might have raised a few eyebrows, but nothing that you can't readily download elsewhere.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1646645]I have lived in lower Suk for 15 years and the amount of human detritus on the streets just gets worse and worse every year. When I moved to BKK I '99 you mainly saw western tourists and western mongers in the lower suk area. Now it is a hodge podge of Arabs and other various UEOs (folks of Unidentified Ethnic Origin). Many of these folks are amazingly ill mannered. No wonder the Thais in this area are so aggressive towards foreigners. [/QUOTE]I too have noticed the changes and I do not like hanging around lower Suk at all anymore. There are areas in Pattaya too that have been colonized by angry, uptight, insular Arabs. I really wonder why the Thai Government allows these lowlifes to stay here.

I recently attended a lecture on Hezbollah given by a former CIA agent who has just written a book on the subject. I learned that the CIA tries to monitor this organization very carefully. It is personal with them. They hate these assholes. There is blood on their middle eastern hands. At the lecture I was told that Hezbollah have their people planted all over the world including Thailand in places like lower Suk where they blend in. The Hezbollah agents get involved in all kinds of underground illegal activities like money laundering, prostitution, and arms acquisition while waiting around for possible orders of a more serious nature like kidnapping and terrorism. Sorry, but I give ALL Arabs in Thailand, the PI, and Indonesia a wide berth. They are lowlifes and up to no good.

Soi 11 is still wild and crazy and about as far down as I care to go unless I am making a rare visit to Nana. For starters I prefer Cowboy over Nana most anytime and same same for the oilies on Soi 24 over the places off lower Suk. Thank God there is more to BKK than lower Suk. Lower Suk really needs to be cleaned up.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1646645]When my lease is up I will move to Thonglor, Ekkamai, or maybe Yen Akart. Nice residential areas that are still in the center of the city but away from the suk tourists.[/QUOTE]Yep, Thonglor and Ekkamai is where I would choose to live if I were so fortunate as to be able to settle down in Thailand. There are a lot of very nice condos in this area for rent at relatively reasonably rates. I stayed for a week at the Marriott Thonglor Exec Apartment Hotel. A couple of months ago Marriott sent me an email offering $93/ night for a 1 bedroom suite and I nailed it down for 8 nights as part of my upcoming trip. One could save a small fortune by renting an upscale condo in this neighborhood. Ekkamai has a lot of interesting clubs, discos, good quality restaurants and street food. It is a pleasure to hang out here.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1646645]
Perhaps the biggest drawback of lower suk is there is really no good Thai food in this area. Just crapola for the tourists. Most tourists would not even enter the restaurants that we eat at. But, pop on the bike and I can be to good food in 15 min.

[/QUOTE]Sometimes BM's ask me where a good place to eat is on lower Suk and I am stumped to give them any good recommendations. I usually advise them to try one of the rollaway street carts on Soi 11 (Ju Ju's) after 10 pm or Monsoon (although touristy as all hell) for earlier dining. The best advice is get out of the neighborhood if you want good Thai eats.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1646645]Living here full time is a very different experience than coming as a tourist. Even if you are a three month a year tourist.
[/QUOTE]Sadly I agree. Only by living in BKK full time can one get out of the traveler ST state of mind and simultaneously on the other side of the coin, certain opportunities open up for LT ex-pat residents that are just not there for someone in my present situation. On my next trip I will be spending a month here and it will be great, I can't wait, but I will still be only a ST temporary visitor. I would really like to live here for a year or more and then see what happens. One thing for sure after I sign a long term lease; I would hire a tutor and really make an effort to learn the lingo. That would open up a whole new arena of girls for me. Something to look forward to.

[QUOTE=KoperenKarel;1646910]Aren't we being a little paranoid here?

Immigration officials are not likely being bossed around by feminists. I suppose you imagine these women all being dressed in overalls and having short hair?

If you're afraid of having your phone checked for pictures (which is illegal under privacy laws) then transfer them to a memory stick or memory card.

Relax.

Ko.[/QUOTE]You seriously underestimate the power of the feminists in Western countries. The US military is practically dominated by a board of women (with a significant percentage of lesbians) who do nothing but look for discrimination and "bias" in the military and the generals cower in fear. Much of US domestic policy is now based upon the rantings of neurotic women. VAWA is only one example. The outlawing of any sort of P4 P, with draconian punishment, is one symptom of a society run by militant leftist feminists. Look at the current US [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] shield laws (the woman is protected, the man is not), the war on masculinity, extremely biased divorce laws, etc. , etc.

Oh, and checking for pictures, when entering the USA, is most definitely NOT illegal. There are court rulings upholding this. Don't make ignorant statements such as this before you know the facts. It may, or may not, be legal in Europe, but it is most certainly permitted when entering the USA.

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1646921]
Oh, and checking for pictures, when entering the USA, is most definitely NOT illegal. There are court rulings upholding this. Don't make ignorant statements such as this before you know the facts. It may, or may not, be legal in Europe, but it is most certainly permitted when entering the USA.[/QUOTE]I always wipe / clean my devices and hard drive of any photos before re-entering. If you really want to keep the memories, put it on cloud that's secure from anyone. Immigration / customs have every right to snoop around.

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1646921]

Oh, and checking for pictures, when entering the USA, is most definitely NOT illegal. There are court rulings upholding this. Don't make ignorant statements such as this before you know the facts. It may, or may not, be legal in Europe, but it is most certainly permitted when entering the USA.[/QUOTE]
I apologise for thinking the rest of the world is as far up the civilisation ladder as the Netherlands. Privacy is a great achievement over here. You can not be stopped and searched here without proper reason. Merely arriving from a country like Thailand or Indonesia is not enough reason for search unless you are a known paedophile, in which case Lady Justice would be chasing you already over there (and good luck to her).

[QUOTE=Traveler1234;1646943]I always wipe / clean my devices and hard drive of any photos before re-entering. If you really want to keep the memories, put it on cloud that's secure from anyone. Immigration / customs have every right to snoop around.[/QUOTE]I would not trust my pictures to the cloud. If your provider has even one server in the US then the US government has the right, using the infamous "Patriot Act", to snoop around on all its' servers, where ever they may be located around the world. Don't think anything in the cloud is safe from Peeping Toms. Way back in the past you could safely move files across the world by mailing them to yourself. No more. Hotmail and Gmail are subject to Uncle Sam.

It's amazing how much you can store on a 32 GB SD card, easily stashed somewhere in a cranny in your luggage.

Border Security shows from countries like Australia, Canada, UK and USA are quite entertaining and educational for frequent or novice travelers. Customs officers in any country can legally stop and search anyone who enters their country and they do it all the time. The courts have ruled that Governments are well within the law to stop and conduct searches because they are protecting their borders. Initially the stops may be just to ask basic questions and make an assessment of the traveler but your reaction to their questions will also determine how far they will go.

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVjkLrGl2mM[/URL]

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Cl0nAbTWY0[/URL]

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Cl0nAbTWY0[/URL]

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKjq467_2H4[/URL]

[QUOTE=KoperenKarel;1646955]I apologise for thinking the rest of the world is as far up the civilisation ladder as the Netherlands. Privacy is a great achievement over here. You can not be stopped and searched here without proper reason. Merely arriving from a country like Thailand or Indonesia is not enough reason for search unless you are a known paedophile, in which case Lady Justice would be chasing you already over there (and good luck to her).[/QUOTE]I agree with your assessment about civilization and the USA's lack thereof. However, to clarify, you can't be stopped and searched while walking down the street minding your own business, for instance, but when entering the country everything you have is subject to search. That includes notebook computers, cell phones, your anal cavity, whatever.

XXX pix, in and of themselves, are certainly not illegal. However, given that many Asian ladies appear to be much younger than they look, at least to Western eyes, it's safer to have them stored elsewhere. In other words, it's just easier to avoid any possibility of being hassled by an overzealous CBP agent.

[QUOTE=EthanHunt123;1646874]Sorry to be rude. But what makes you think you are superior to these guys you are talking about? They come here on their own money. Just because their behavior is different from yours. And probably more customers have driven up prices doesn't let you start ranting about their countries.[/QUOTE]Superior? Never said I was superior. Different? You mean treating others with contempt? Walking around with a superiority complex? Treating the locals poorly? Walking in the middle of the street? Blocking the sidewalks? Making no attempt to observe what the local customs are? Those kind of things? Sorry, one of the big issues we have on this planet is the push for everyone to accept everything. And many of these folks expect the rest of the world to kowtow to them.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;1646918]I too have noticed the changes and I do not like hanging around lower Suk at all anymore. There are areas in Pattaya too that have been colonized by angry, uptight, insular Arabs. I really wonder why the Thai Government allows these lowlifes to stay here.

I recently attended a lecture on Hezbollah given by a former CIA agent who has just written a book on the subject. I learned that the CIA tries to monitor this organization very carefully. It is personal with them. They hate these assholes. There is blood on their middle eastern hands. At the lecture I was told that Hezbollah have their people planted all over the world including Thailand in places like lower Suk where they blend in. The Hezbollah agents get involved in all kinds of underground illegal activities like money laundering, prostitution, and arms acquisition while waiting around for possible orders of a more serious nature like kidnapping and terrorism. Sorry, but I give ALL Arabs in Thailand, the PI, and Indonesia a wide berth. They are lowlifes and up to no good.

Soi 11 is still wild and crazy and about as far down as I care to go unless I am making a rare visit to Nana. For starters I prefer Cowboy over Nana most anytime and same same for the oilies on Soi 24 over the places off lower Suk. Thank God there is more to BKK than lower Suk. Lower Suk really needs to be cleaned up.

Yep, Thonglor and Ekkamai is where I would choose to live if I were so fortunate as to be able to settle down in Thailand. There are a lot of very nice condos in this area for rent at relatively reasonably rates. I stayed for a week at the Marriott Thonglor Exec Apartment Hotel. A couple of months ago Marriott sent me an email offering $93/ night for a 1 bedroom suite and I nailed it down for 8 nights as part of my upcoming trip. One could save a small fortune by renting an upscale condo in this neighborhood. Ekkamai has a lot of interesting clubs, discos, good quality restaurants and street food. It is a pleasure to hang out here.

Sometimes BM's ask me where a good place to eat is on lower Suk and I am stumped to give them any good recommendations. I usually advise them to try one of the rollaway street carts on Soi 11 (Ju Ju's) after 10 pm or Monsoon (although touristy as all hell) for earlier dining. The best advice is get out of the neighborhood if you want good Thai eats.

Sadly I agree. Only by living in BKK full time can one get out of the traveler ST state of mind and simultaneously on the other side of the coin, certain opportunities open up for LT ex-pat residents that are just not there for someone in my present situation. On my next trip I will be spending a month here and it will be great, I can't wait, but I will still be only a ST temporary visitor. I would really like to live here for a year or more and then see what happens. One thing for sure after I sign a long term lease; I would hire a tutor and really make an effort to learn the lingo. That would open up a whole new arena of girls for me. Something to look forward to.[/QUOTE]My bet is if you stayed here long term you would like it. Having realistic expectations is what it is about and you are spot on with your assessments.

I remember when you got that deal at the Marriot. Probably a bit more during the high season. And it seems this one is going to be a bit more of a high season than the last. Already quite a few folks in town.

BTW, one of my favorite restaurants is about 50 meters from that hotel. Between the hotel and Thonglor. Joke 55 Pojana. Looks shitty from the outside, but amazing food. You probably saw it. Some outdoor tables and some of the veges and seafood on display. About half way between the soi the Marriot is on and Soi 55.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1647015]Superior? Never said I was superior. Different? You mean treating others with contempt? Walking around with a superiority complex? Treating the locals poorly? Walking in the middle of the street? Blocking the sidewalks? Making no attempt to observe what the local customs are? Those kind of things? Sorry, one of the big issues we have on this planet is the push for everyone to accept everything. And many of these folks expect the rest of the world to kowtow to them.[/QUOTE]Here here, and I'm not a racist by any definition. But the older I get and the longer I live, I see evidence everywhere that some cultures are simply too retarded by modern standards and will be forever incapable of assimilating into a modern, tolerant, peaceful society. I will leave it to the reader to decide which cultures.

Styk.

[QUOTE=PointyStick;1646771]Cheers. Thanks for the post. I do note that there are a number of other girls I have not tried so I will obviously be kept busy.[/QUOTE]Sounds like a good plan to me. Knock up a list and tick them off as you go.

Regards,

BJ

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1647015]Superior? Never said I was superior. Different? You mean treating others with contempt? Walking around with a superiority complex? Treating the locals poorly? Walking in the middle of the street? Blocking the sidewalks? Making no attempt to observe what the local customs are? Those kind of things? Sorry, one of the big issues we have on this planet is the push for everyone to accept everything. And many of these folks expect the rest of the world to kowtow to them.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Stykler;1647114]Here here, and I'm not a racist by any definition. But the older I get and the longer I live, I see evidence everywhere that some cultures are simply too retarded by modern standards and will be forever incapable of assimilating into a modern, tolerant, peaceful society. I will leave it to the reader to decide which cultures.

Styk.[/QUOTE]


Sadly this is not a true representation of the cultures of the people that you are referring to. Let's assume, that you were talking about the Africans hanging out in Lower Sukhumvit. The ones that like to get into your face, full of the holier than thou attitude, rude, condescending, etc, etc. This is not the case in most real African cultures. They are respectful, tactful, decent and accepting. I should know. I have lived in Africa on and off for over 10 years in 6 different countries. The guys that come here know that in a way they will have it tough. The general complaint is that some races do not know how to behave in a modern standard that is universally accepted, but who sets these standards? The Westerners?

Even if they adhered to these standards they will still be discriminated against. Such is the nature of people. They will find some excuse. So now a bunch of guys from Africa show up in Bangkok, they know inherently, regardless of how they behave the Thais will always look down on them, so they put up a front, a hard shell, an attitude of sorts as a defense mechanism for coping. If you ask me I would say that Asian cultures both South and East Asian are very xenophobic and regardless of how you behave or are "expected" to behave to a certain standard they will always look down on you with a sense of contempt. They do it to their own people. Thais hate other Thais that are a shade darker than them, calling them thieves, slanderers, pimps etc, so what prejudged attitudes will they have towards an African? Or an Indian? Or a Cambodian? He / She could be the highly educated, well to do, well respected. But that won't matter.

If the standard model is western behavior what gives anyone the right to deem this as the zenith to what all cultures should adhere to? This is a colonial mentality. There are universally accepted modes of behavior that transgress culture and race. Things like respect for your fellow human, graciousness, gratitude, generosity. These traits are universal. They are not relegated to western culture only, and the fact that such behavior is regarded as "western" is downright bigoted.

[QUOTE=Moris54;1647170]Things like respect for your fellow human, graciousness, gratitude, generosity. These are traits are universal. They are not relegated to western culture only, and the fact that such behavior is regarded as "western" is downright bigoted.[/QUOTE]FYI, I was not referring to Africans, who I have always found to be polite and nice.

There are many cultures that do not value the traits that you stated above. In fact, extending those traits to all and not just folks of a certain status is really a Western construct and a rather recent one at that. Many cultures still only extend those courtesies to those of their "caste" or to those of their faith. Many believe that showing those courtesies to all demeans them and brings them lower status. You see that played out on lower Suk every day.

Sorry if extending those courtesies to everyone shows my "colonial" mentality, then I will gladly show it. And yes, you are correct. Many Thais are xenophobic and racist. They seem to base it on skin color as opposed to behavior, which I find quite abhorrent.

A quick note: I consider myself very far to the left politically. That being said I am appalled at those who are attacking Maher and Harris for their spot on assessment of Islam. Seeing some of my fellow progressives defend a culture that treats women as property makes me ill.

[QUOTE=Stykler;1647114]Here here, and I'm not a racist by any definition. But the older I get and the longer I live, I see evidence everywhere that some cultures are simply too retarded by modern standards and will be forever incapable of assimilating into a modern, tolerant, peaceful society. I will leave it to the reader to decide which cultures.

Styk.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1647180]FYI, I was not referring to Africans, who I have always found to be polite and nice.

There are many cultures that do not value the traits that you stated above. In fact, extending those traits to all and not just folks of a certain status is really a Western construct and a rather recent one at that. Many cultures still only extend those courtesies to those of their "caste" or to those of their faith. Many believe that showing those courtesies to all demeans them and brings them lower status. You see that played out on lower Suk every day.

Sorry if extending those courtesies to everyone shows my "colonial" mentality, then I will gladly show it. And yes, you are correct. Many Thais are xenophobic and racist. They seem to base it on skin color as opposed to behavior, which I find quite abhorrent.

A quick note: I consider myself very far to the left politically. That being said I am appalled at those who are attacking Maher and Harris for their spot on assessment of Islam. Seeing some of my fellow progressives defend a culture that treats women as property makes me ill.[/QUOTE]Extending such "courtesies" to people of all races is by no means a colonial mentality, but expecting reciprocation and judging them for non reciprocation is. That is what I was referring to. I wasn't bought up in the Western construct and there was no influence of the western acceptance mentality in my childhood but it was always embedded in me that we should extend such traits to all people, regardless of race, ethnicity, etc. If this is a Western construct then it may have grown from the mass immigration from third world to first world countries. The practice of tolerance, but is tolerance really acceptance? A lot of first world countries face very grueling social and race issues. I guess that's for another day, another time.

BTW, I am with you on the Islam thing. There is no way anyone, even muslim women can convince me that they actually like being covered head to toe with a metal plate to cover their face.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1647180]FYI, I was not referring to Africans, who I have always found to be polite and nice.

There are many cultures that do not value the traits that you stated above. In fact, extending those traits to all and not just folks of a certain status is really a Western construct and a rather recent one at that. Many cultures still only extend those courtesies to those of their "caste" or to those of their faith. Many believe that showing those courtesies to all demeans them and brings them lower status. You see that played out on lower Suk every day.

Sorry if extending those courtesies to everyone shows my "colonial" mentality, then I will gladly show it. And yes, you are correct. Many Thais are xenophobic and racist. They seem to base it on skin color as opposed to behavior, which I find quite abhorrent.

A quick note: I consider myself very far to the left politically. That being said I am appalled at those who are attacking Maher and Harris for their spot on assessment of Islam. Seeing some of my fellow progressives defend a culture that treats women as property makes me ill.[/QUOTE]Really. Then I must be mistaken in tuning that Whiteheads and Neo-Nazis are a Islamic phenomenon No one is debating that treating women like property is prevalent in a lot of Middle Eastern countries. But then you have similar stuff playing out in a lot of western countries as well in the garb of trafficking etc It's unfair to paint a whole race / religion in one color.

And BTW I am not from a Middle East country and nor I am Muslim. In case you were wondering.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1646871]Dude, the change in demographics in lower Suk over a 10 year period has been shocking. For a visitor, it really does not matter, but some of us live here full time.

No way I would even visit most of the nations those folks come from.

BKK is still the best food city on the planet.

Seattle is way to wet. San Diego, Boulder, drier climes for me.[/QUOTE]How about the change in demographics in the patients at Bumrungrad Hospital over the last decade? That has been significant. In any event Bangkok Hospital is better.

Bangkok does have great food.

But New York City, and many many other USA Cities, have significantly more annual rainfall than Seattle despite Seattle's reputation.

Any suggestions on A-Level Escort? Debating between going to a FL club and trying my luck there or getting a Escort. So far tried Cherry (Very happy), Nataree (OK) and a Go-Go in Nana (Bad).

[QUOTE=KoperenKarel;1646910]Aren't we being a little paranoid here?

Immigration officials are not likely being bossed around by feminists. I suppose you imagine these women all being dressed in overalls and having short hair?

If you're afraid of having your phone checked for pictures (which is illegal under privacy laws) then transfer them to a memory stick or memory card.

Relax.

Ko.[/QUOTE]There can be a hint of paranoia of course, but there is also a large degree of truth. Most people think of feminists as nazi like women with a bad fashion sense and an even worse hair dresser. In reality, most feminists are your boss, your neighbor, you lobbyists, your congresswomen. Don't be fooled by appearances.

[QUOTE=KoperenKarel;1646968]I would not trust my pictures to the cloud. If your provider has even one server in the US then the US government has the right, using the infamous "Patriot Act", to snoop around on all its' servers, where ever they may be located around the world. [/QUOTE]You're absolutely right, clouds are not be any means snoop proof. But as long as they are not child porn related, you're ok from the Law [but not the Mrs :D].
The worst that can happen is the cloud service shuts down your account. Better than having your pc or device confiscated while they conduct a search.

YMMV

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1646921]
Oh, and checking for pictures, when entering the USA, is most definitely NOT illegal. There are court rulings upholding this. Don't make ignorant statements such as this before you know the facts. It may, or may not, be legal in Europe, but it is most certainly permitted when entering the USA.[/QUOTE]Well yes and no (to the best of my knowledge). If those pictures are on a laptop or digital camera it depends on which court circuit you live in. For example, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals (covering California, Oregon, and Washington among other states) recently ruled to search a digital device customs and immigration needed "reasonable suspicion" they would find something criminal. Previously, Custom and Immigration officers in the states covered by the Ninth Circuit had been one of the most aggressive in conducting arbitrary searches of digital devices without any justification. Certain other Circuits have ruled customs and immigration has unbridled discretion to search though a digital device. I'm unaware of any ruling from the Supreme Court on this so right now the law varies at different ports of entry (unless I am incorrect that the Supreme Court hasn't ruled recently on this issue).

Has anybody here actually had their computer or camera searched going through Thai, PI, Singapore, EU, UK, Canada or US Customs or are we just talking theoretically? In all my travels I have never experienced this invasion of my privacy. And since I do not have anything to do with under (umbrella) age girls I give off a natural not very concerned attitude when questioned by a customs official upon returning to my beloved country. I have done nothing wrong. The typical short conversation goes something like this: Agent- "Were did you go? Have you been on a farm or near any livestock" ME- "I went scuba diving and surfing in Thailand and the Philippines. I did not go to any farms" Agent- "Welcome back to the USA." ME- "Thanks, it is good to be home." End of story.

It wasn't always this way. Back in my wild younger days I spent a lot of time travelling around South America for long periods with long hair and a taste for certain illegal substances, yada yada yada, I liked the girls too, but they were not my main focus. Back then Miami customs officials used to give me a hard time. I fit a certain drug profile and they nearly always searched my suitcase. All that nonsense stopped after I reached a certain age, cut my hair short and started looking more "respectable." What a joke!

But yeah to be extra safe or to put your mind at ease, put your trip photos on the cloud or encrypt a portion of your hard drive. The odds of a custom official checking your data that deep is 1 in 10 million.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;1647394]Has anybody here actually had their computer or camera searched going through Thai, PI, Singapore, EU, British, Canada or US Customs or are we just talking theoretically? [/QUOTE]Yes, they once went through my video tapes of Bangkok and am sure they were disappointed when all they saw was the river and some temples. And they did this after seeing conference materials from a major professional conference showing that I had attended it for a few days. I also was carrying a lot of xrays showing I had sought medical care in Bangkok. And they looked through my hard copy pictures taken in Japan of some meetings I had (in suit and tie) with other businesspeople. So after seeing all this I was pretty much the last person you would expect them to scrutinize, along with my digital data, other than that I had been in Asia. But being male and returning from Asia was sufficient to trigger this invasion of privacy.

A friend of mine had his computer scanned in San Francisco and he told me they did this to every unaccompanied male with a computer or camera on his flight from Asia.

Laptop searches in particular became such a serious problem some business trade organizations lobbied Congress to stop this as it potentially exposed their trade secrets as well as attorney / client communications. As a result Mary Cantwell (a former CEO) and Russ Feingold introduced legislation in the Senate to require at least reasonable suspicion (the same standard the Ninth Circuit eventually adopted) before such a search could be conducted at the border. Their bill did not pass. Many companies forbade their employees from travelling overseas with laptops that had trade secrets stored on them owing to the practices at the US Border.

No, the problem was far from theoretical and I'm sure still exists to some extent at certain ports of entry. However, all the above examples occurred during the Bush administration. I suspect things may have eased a bit since then, but other than the Ninth Circuit decision I'm not sure about this.

One other thing. Customs and Immigration had computers with powerful forensic software on them to scan laptops with and likely still does. This often was done in a back room while the arriving traveler was asked to wait. So I'm not sure about the 1 in 10 million chance of them finding something.

Hope I'm posting this question in the right place.

I have an overnight layover in Bangkok in December, staying at a hotel in Lat Krabang near the Paseo Mall. Any action there (lady bar with possibility of take-out or massage w / extras) or is it necessary to go into the city?

Any advice from experienced Bangkok mongers would be most appreciated.

[QUOTE=EthanHunt123;1647188]Really. Then I must be mistaken in tuning that Whiteheads and Neo-Nazis are a Islamic phenomenon No one is debating that treating women like property is prevalent in a lot of Middle Eastern countries. But then you have similar stuff playing out in a lot of western countries as well in the garb of trafficking etc It's unfair to paint a whole race / religion in one color.

And BTW I am not from a Middle East country and nor I am Muslim. In case you were wondering.[/QUOTE]Um, well neo-nazis are not endorsed by the gov. No are there Neo-Nazi Republics as there are Islamic Republics where the oppression of women is law.

Similar stuff? Again, trafficking is illegal. Unfair? Not at all. It is their doctrine. When people are free to leave the religion as they please and women are allowed to dress as they want then your argument will have some merit.

[QUOTE=Moris54;1647187]Extending such "courtesies" to people of all races is by no means a colonial mentality, but expecting reciprocation and judging them for non reciprocation is. That is what I was referring to. I wasn't bought up in the Western construct and there was no influence of the western acceptance mentality in my childhood but it was always embedded in me that we should extend such traits to all people, regardless of race, ethnicity, etc. If this is a Western construct then it may have grown from the mass immigration from third world to first world countries. The practice of tolerance, but is tolerance really acceptance? A lot of first world countries face very grueling social and race issues. I guess that's for another day, another time.

BTW, I am with you on the Islam thing. There is no way anyone, even muslim women can convince me that they actually like being covered head to toe with a metal plate to cover their face.[/QUOTE]Actually not. Most of it has its root in European philosophy of the 18th century. Folks like Rousseau. Yes, Western nations face race issues, but discrimination in Western nations is illegal. Take Malaysia, discrimination is not only tolerated, it is law.

Tolerance is not acceptance. Not in any sense. And in fact, it should not be. I would never preach acceptance.

[QUOTE=LAGuy5;1647384]Well yes and no (to the best of my knowledge). If those pictures are on a laptop or digital camera it depends on which court circuit you live in. For example, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals (covering California, Oregon, and Washington among other states) recently ruled to search a digital device customs and immigration needed "reasonable suspicion" they would find something criminal. Previously, Custom and Immigration officers in the states covered by the Ninth Circuit had been one of the most aggressive in conducting arbitrary searches of digital devices without any justification. Certain other Circuits have ruled customs and immigration has unbridled discretion to search though a digital device. I'm unaware of any ruling from the Supreme Court on this so right now the law varies at different ports of entry (unless I am incorrect that the Supreme Court hasn't ruled recently on this issue).[/QUOTE]Yes, the Supremes ruled on this in January and again in March. To be exact, they denied the appeal, letting stand the 9th Circus' ruling. They sort of carved out this doctrine of "reasonable suspicion. " Basically CBP can do as the please once they have "reasonable suspicion. " Of course, much like "probable cause," I suspect "reasonable suspicion" can be manufactured at will.

[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Cotterman[/URL]

The above is a good summary of the rulings in question. It now appears that this how the law is to be applied at all ports of entry.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1647466]Actually not. Most of it has its root in European philosophy of the 18th century. Folks like Rousseau. Yes, Western nations face race issues, but discrimination in Western nations is illegal. Take Malaysia, discrimination is not only tolerated, it is law.

Tolerance is not acceptance. Not in any sense. And in fact, it should not be. I would never preach acceptance.[/QUOTE]Well considering this is not really the forum for debate on discrimination. I will stop after this post. Is there discrimination in Middle East / Asia. Hell yes. I come from a country where we have had one of the worst examples of this in the form of Caste system. Are things changing? Yes. Can people criticise it? Yes. Can you make sweeping generalizations for people from those countries. NO. You talk about Malaysia. Is there legalised discrimination? - it's not a straightforward answer. You have to understand the history and culture of the place to give a nuanced answer. You talk about Women in Muslim Countries. Do some of them have institutionalised suppression of women rights? - Yes. Are there some of Muslim countries where women are equal and intact have reached positions like Head of State? - Yes. On the other hand how many women / non Christian men have even fought for US presidency?

You say West has no legalised discrimination. What are your views on Laws against Roma people in some countries? What about a key women's right issue like Abortion? What about growing laws targeted against Islam. Banning Hijab etc? Can the same countries even think of passing a law against traditional Jewish attire?

In a shell. There are issues everywhere. But it's not right to turn around a paint a whole religion / state / culture as uncivilized etc.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;1647394]Has anybody here actually had the.ir computer or camera searched going through Thai, PI, Singapore, EU, UK, Canada or US Customs or are we just talking theoretically? In all my travels I have never experienced this invasion of my privacy.

. . . .

But yeah to be extra safe or to put your mind at ease, put your trip photos on the cloud or encrypt a portion of your hard drive. The odds of a custom official checking your data that deep is 1 in 10 million.[/QUOTE]In October 30 last year Cubadave, a frequent mongerer in the Dominican Republic, was searched by the US Customs officials at Miami International Airport. They told him to line up with six other people and hand over his electronics. He had to surrender a laptop computer, two cell phones, and two digital cameras.

I cannot find the link now but it has been commented at the Dominican Republic forum of this site.

BTW, anyone who knows how safe encryption of the harddisk is if you should be searched by customs? The commercial encryption programs has some flaws.

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1647493]Yes, the Supremes ruled on this in January and again in March. To be exact, they denied the appeal, letting stand the 9th Circus' ruling. They sort of carved out this doctrine of "reasonable suspicion. " Basically CBP can do as the please once they have "reasonable suspicion. " Of course, much like "probable cause," I suspect "reasonable suspicion" can be manufactured at will.

[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Cotterman[/URL]

The above is a good summary of the rulings in question. It now appears that this how the law is to be applied at all ports of entry.[/QUOTE]I don't think so. In denying the petition for cert. The Supreme Court basically left the ruling [I]as it affects the Ninth Circuit only[/I] in place without ruling on the merits. In other words they essentially decided the case was not one of the very few they wished to consider at this time. Accordingly the Ninth Circuit ruling remains intact [I]for the Ninth Circuit[/I] at least until such time as the Supremes take a case on this issue. Customs and Immigration is still free in other jurisdictions to search laptops and digital media (such as memory cards for cameras) without any need to justify the search unless a court in another jurisdiction rules otherwise [I]for that jurisdiction[/I]. At least that is my reading of the situation unless there are further relevant cases I haven't seen or I have forgotten something important I learned in law school (which I suppose is possible).

Edit: It occurs to me though the reason the Supreme Court refused to hear the case might have been not so much that the issue of whether the government needs reasonable suspicion to search a digital device is an unimportant one, but rather the facts of the case were not conducive to deciding that issue. The Court of Appeals affirmed both that the government needs reasonable suspicion [I]and[/I] that in this case there was reasonable suspicion. Therefore if the Supreme Court took the case it would not matter to the defendant whether it ruled reasonable suspicion was required, or instead that no reasonable suspicion was needed, because in both instances the defendant would still be considered guilty and subject to incarceration. The only way the Supreme Court ruling would be consequential to the defendant would be if the Supreme Court looked at the facts and concluded there was no reasonable suspicion on the facts of the case but reasonable suspicion would be required to allow the search. But the Supreme Court rarely makes these sorts of factual determinations. So bottom line is unless the government decides as a matter of policy to only search digital media at the border based on reasonable suspicion, and nothing less, there still is the distinct possibility the Supreme Court may in the future issue a definitive ruling in a suitable case that would bind all U.S. ports of entry. Hope this is reasonably clear to those who care.

[QUOTE=Bellpepper;1647514]BTW, anyone who knows how safe encryption of the harddisk is if you should be searched by customs? The commercial encryption programs has some flaws.[/QUOTE]I wouldn't trust it too much. I work for a company that had a forensic accountancy department and you'd be surprised how easy it was for them to recover deleted files and unscramble encrypted hard disks.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;1647394]Has anybody here actually had their computer or camera searched going through Thai, PI, Singapore, EU, UK, Canada or US Customs or are we just talking theoretically? [/QUOTE]I enter the US about 5-6 times per year and my passport is full of entry stamps. I was selected for secondary inspection once, at Newark Airport, New Jersey, flying in from Europe. Four armed agents went through my luggage in some detail, and looked at all the pics in my digital camera.

So this is not just a theoretical thing.

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1647493]Yes, the Supremes ruled on this in January and again in March. To be exact, they denied the appeal, letting stand the 9th Circus' ruling. They sort of carved out this doctrine of "reasonable suspicion. " Basically CBP can do as the please once they have "reasonable suspicion. " Of course, much like "probable cause," I suspect "reasonable suspicion" can be manufactured at will.

[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Cotterman[/URL]

The above is a good summary of the rulings in question. It now appears that this how the law is to be applied at all ports of entry.[/QUOTE]Although "reasonable suspicion" is a rather low standard, lower than "probable cause," it is still significant that such a standard now exists in the Ninth Circuit. Consider instances (and there are some) where Customs and Immigration decides to search the digital devices of virtually every single male on a plane from Asia. Unless Customs and Immigration has some reasonable suspicion that this group of single males engaged in some criminal act (for example, "we have information they all belong to the United Automatic Editor will not allow this word Association") these kinds of en masse searches would be considered violations of the United States Constitution. While in individual cases it might not be so hard for Customs and Immigration to manufacture reasonable suspicion, the standard does get in the way of them routinely searching the digital media of large numbers of returning people because logically only a limited number could really be considered "reasonably suspicious."

So even in those jurisdictions that have a reasonable suspicion standard, persons returning to the United States must consider there still is a possibility of a search of your digital media, but the reasonable suspicion standard does lower that probability, probably significantly.

[QUOTE=HarryDude;1647527]I enter the US about 5-6 times per year and my passport is full of entry stamps. I was selected for secondary inspection once, at Newark Airport, New Jersey, flying in from Europe. Four armed agents went through my luggage in some detail, and looked at all the pics in my digital camera.

So this is not just a theoretical thing.[/QUOTE]So what would be the consequence of not giving customs the password to say your phone? They have the right to search it with probable cause. But is there a rule saying you have to give them the means of entry?

[QUOTE=HarryDude;1647527]I enter the US about 5-6 times per year and my passport is full of entry stamps. I was selected for secondary inspection once, at Newark Airport, New Jersey, flying in from Europe. Four armed agents went through my luggage in some detail, and looked at all the pics in my digital camera.

So this is not just a theoretical thing.[/QUOTE]As a single male traveler returning to Canada from SEA, I have in the vast majority of times had all my shit thoroughly inspected. There was also many questions and a waste of up to 3 hours of my life each time. In one instance I was even interrogated at length at the boarding gate to leave the country.

I wonder if other folks are "randomly selected" so regularly, LOL. Not everyone has stamps to Thailand & Cambodia in their passports. After the first few times this happened I started going without a suitcase to reduce the inevitable delays after a long flight.

On one occasion I had a copy of the "After Dark" gogo magazine full of pics of semi nude girls. The airport officer accused me saying, you told me you had no porn. I replied that that is nothing, in Canada you can legally buy and carry on your person real porn, fully naked and in the act. That shut her up.

I was also accused re tons of comments written on note papers, them saying a bit of it was distasteful. I said it was just some garbage I had copied off the internet & that was the end of that discussion.

Every year this same topic comes up and is discussed ad nauseam by all the experts. Could you please move on. No one knows what the law really is or the criteria is. All that is clear is that any adult nude photos are legal. Looks like most of the people worry about customs searching their laptop must be involved in illegal activities. If you act suspicious and nervous at the entry, of course you are likely to be searched. So dress well, don't act nervous and you should be fine. Of course, I am talking about USA. Other countries, I have no idea. Except India where my never had my laptop or phone searched.

Now if your significant other searches and find these stuffs, your recourse under the law may be limited.

[QUOTE=Duniawala;1647700]Every year this same topic comes up and is discussed ad nauseam by all the experts. Could you please move on. No one knows what the law really is or the criteria is. All that is clear is that any adult nude photos are legal. Looks like most of the people worry about customs searching their laptop must be involved in illegal activities. If you act suspicious and nervous at the entry, of course you are likely to be searched. So dress well, don't act nervous and you should be fine. Of course, I am talking about USA. Other countries, I have no idea. Except India where my never had my laptop or phone searched.

Now if your significant other searches and find these stuffs, your recourse under the law may be limited.[/QUOTE]This is one of the most ill-informed posts I have ever seen on this forum.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1647683]As a single male traveler returning to Canada from SEA, I have in the vast majority of times had all my shit thoroughly inspected. There was also many questions and a waste of up to 3 hours of my life each time. In one instance I was even interrogated at length at the boarding gate to leave the country.

I wonder if other folks are "randomly selected" so regularly, LOL. Not everyone has stamps to Thailand & Cambodia in their passports. After the first few times this happened I started going without a suitcase to reduce the inevitable delays after a long flight.

On one occasion I had a copy of the "After Dark" gogo magazine full of pics of semi nude girls. The airport officer accused me saying, you told me you had no porn. I replied that that is nothing, in Canada you can legally buy and carry on your person real porn, fully naked and in the act. That shut her up.

I was also accused re tons of comments written on note papers, them saying a bit of it was distasteful. I said it was just some garbage I had copied off the internet & that was the end of that discussion.[/QUOTE]Although I have found US Customs and immigration officers to be difficult at times (although since joining the Global Entry program, this no longer has been the case for me), in my experience Canadian customs and immigration is worse, if that is even possible. I have had limited interaction with them though, so it is possible my limited negative experiences with them have been the result of bad luck. However, when I read accounts such as PinkPearl's (as well as others) I suspect my negative experiences with them have been typical rather than atypical.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1647683]I wonder if other folks are "randomly selected" so regularly, LOL. [/QUOTE]I am always anxious going through the customs. Mostly this is due to my family's traumatic ecape from a formaly held communist central European country. I cannot help myself but be nervous. Returning from Thailand to Canada by myself this January (my family returned earler) I was also held up by customs. I had a photo on my camera of a beach road girl giving me a blowjob, and subsequently they also held me up for three hours. The custom guy was actually quite nice, and at the end told me I did nothing illegal and reminded me to delete the photos before my wife gets her hands on the camera. For my next solo return from south East Asia, I am already psychologically preparing myself for a three hour delay. I have nothing to hide. I guess its part of the deal.

I take it, you are talking about Thailand Customs?

[QUOTE=ConquerorVal;1647773]I am always anxious going through the customs. Mostly this is due to my family's traumatic ecape from a formaly held communist central European country. I cannot help myself but be nervous. Returning from Thailand to Canada by myself this January (my family returned earler) I was also held up by customs. I had a photo on my camera of a beach road girl giving me a blowjob, and subsequently they also held me up for three hours. The custom guy was actually quite nice, and at the end told me I did nothing illegal and reminded me to delete the photos before my wife gets her hands on the camera. For my next solo return from south East Asia, I am already psychologically preparing myself for a three hour delay. I have nothing to hide. I guess its part of the deal.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Slibby;1647595]So what would be the consequence of not giving customs the password to say your phone? They have the right to search it with probable cause. But is there a rule saying you have to give them the means of entry?[/QUOTE]This article, which is three years old and therefore does not take into account recent court developments, such as the Ninth Circuit case earlier discussed, gives a good overview of what to do at the border, including if one is asked for a password. [URL]https://www.eff.org/wp/defending-privacy-us-border-guide-travelers-carrying-digital-devices[/URL].

[QUOTE=LAGuy5;1647825]This article, which is three years old and therefore does not take into account recent court developments, such as the Ninth Circuit case earlier discussed, gives a good overview of what to do at the border, including if one is asked for a password. [URL]https://www.eff.org/wp/defending-privacy-us-border-guide-travelers-carrying-digital-devices[/URL].[/QUOTE]I've found a good way to avoid all the hassle with USA immigration thugs. I just fly from Thailand to Mexico and cross the border late at night on foot at a remote location while no one is watching. I don't need a passport, visa or any papers at all. I don't even need permission. It's how all the smart sophisticated citizen travelers and immigrants go to the USA. Never has my baggage been searched; theres no snooping into my camera or laptop, no questions, no interrogation; I won't be arrested or prosecuted, and President Obama provides me with total immunity and amnesty from all those pesky immigration laws. I can stay as long as I please and go back to Thailand the way I came. It's like having a get out of jail free card.

[QUOTE=Daddy07;1647861]I've found a good way to avoid all the hassle with USA immigration thugs. I just fly from Thailand to Mexico and cross the border late at night on foot at a remote location while no one is watching. I don't need a passport, visa or any papers at all. I don't even need permission. It's how all the smart sophisticated citizen travelers and immigrants go to the USA. Never has my baggage been searched; theres no snooping into my camera or laptop, no questions, no interrogation; I won't be arrested or prosecuted, and President Obama provides me with total immunity and amnesty from all those pesky immigration laws. I can stay as long as I please and go back to Thailand the way I came. It's like having a get out of jail free card.[/QUOTE]Wow. A non-US resident who reads this thread may well make the assumption that the good old US of A is a dysfunctional mess at the moment.

And some of us take the p/i/s/s out of the Thai government sometimes!

[QUOTE=Duniawala;1647700]All that is clear is that any adult nude photos are legal. Looks like most of the people worry about customs searching their laptop must be involved in illegal activities. [/QUOTE]Adult nude photos might be legal in most Western countries but they are certainly not legal in most (if not all) SE-Asian countries. So yes you are involved in an illegal activity if you have pornography on your camera, cell phone or laptop.

However chances are low I guess that customs search your equipment when you are LEAVING a SE-Asian country. Nevertheless I wouldn't want to take the risk.

[QUOTE=LAGuy5;1647762]This is one of the most ill-informed posts I have ever seen on this forum.[/QUOTE]Clearly you have not read any of his prior posts.

[QUOTE=Stykler;1647906]Wow. A non-US resident who reads this thread may well make the assumption that the good old US of A is a dysfunctional mess at the moment.

And some of us take the p/i/s/s out of the Thai government sometimes![/QUOTE]The US is a mess, but nowhere near the mess Thailand is. No where near.

[QUOTE=Stykler;1647906]Wow. A non-US resident who reads this thread may well make the assumption that the good old US of A is a dysfunctional mess at the moment.

And some of us take the p/i/s/s out of the Thai government sometimes![/QUOTE]Wow, Is it not a big mess?

You have large number of US educated and talented MS, PhD's going out because of H-1 b lottery system (Yes, it's an lottery system not meritocracy, tailor made to get cheap Indian IT laborers who apply in truckloads). Your president is most affectionate towards "illegal" immigrants but legal immigrants are treated with disdain.

Obama is certainly encouraging illegal immigration but is he making sure every new person crossing border is not exploited, is not shot at, is not starving to death, is not raped or murdered or robbed? Well that one is big NO and not at all highlighted. It is not humanitarian move, this is just corporate greed combined with new vote bank politics (a political strategy used extensively in third world country of India).

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1647931]The US is a mess, but nowhere near the mess Thailand is. No where near.[/QUOTE]The reality is if they were ever to fix the problems there would be no more sex or tourist because the exchange rate wouldn't be what it is today?

I have a number of friends who are in law enforcement, one in particular use to be the Chief of Police retired and move on to a higher paying job with TSA. I also have a few working in Customs in a West Coast Airport. Believe or not whether you like it or not most things comes down to being profiled! The profile as told to me when coming from Thailand and surrounding countries they are looking for the kiddie Fuckers and drugs. Many of you talk about your rights and cited court ruling that is all fine and dandy but if you ever had to deal with the system whether you are innocent or not you would be put through the wringer and spit out with less money in your bank account! Right or wrong you are dealing with the government and broke or not they have deep pockets to bury you. They can just pile on and on until you give up. If you put yourself in a situation to be hard headed then in my opinion it is most likely going to happen.

I and my brother both have records and when I was coming and going from Thailand I got stopped why not it was all in the computer. I was asked questions and I told them where I was and went. They stare sometimes copped a attitude because I was on probation I basically had no rights which was true. And when they red card me for a search they search and found nothing because I made sure I never had anything pictures etc. To be questioned. Everything was kept behind my zipper and LBM had only one eye and couldn't speak. Today, after years and years I rarely get searched or even asked more than two questions just a ' have a nice say ".

Enjoy.

[QUOTE=DwayneJohnson;1647951]Wow, Is it not a big mess?

You have large number of US educated and talented MS, PhD's going out because of H-1 b lottery system (Yes, it's an lottery system not meritocracy, tailor made to get cheap Indian IT laborers who apply in truckloads). Your president is most affectionate towards "illegal" immigrants but legal immigrants are treated with disdain.

Obama is certainly encouraging illegal immigration but is he making sure every new person crossing border is not exploited, is not shot at, is not starving to death, is not raped or murdered or robbed? Well that one is big NO and not at all highlighted. It is not humanitarian move, this is just corporate greed combined with new vote bank politics (a political strategy used extensively in third world country of India).[/QUOTE]First of all, the H1 B is not a lottery system. It is a first come, first served system. So the big corporations are eager to staff their organization with cheap labor. But keep in mind that the word "cheap" no longer applies. They have to be paid the same as US citizens. Hewlett Packard, IBM are some companies which were caught and paid hefty fines for doing that.

And regarding illegal immigration, it is the US businesses (mostly the farming community) which encourages it. No US citizen will ever work in that labor intensive low paying job. If they were, then the produce prices will rise. Yes it is a corporate greed combined with the American's insistence of the lowest price. Obama has nothing to with encouragement. In fact he was deporting illegals left and right (the highest ever among all Presidents.) This latest salvo is more humanitarian for keeping families together.

Oh BTW, LA guy5, I stand by my comments. I have no idea where you are coming from. New to the game, eh.

[QUOTE=Duniawala;1648090]First of all, the H1 B is not a lottery system. It is a first come, first served system. So the big corporations are eager to staff their organization with cheap labor. But keep in mind that the word "cheap" no longer applies. They have to be paid the same as US citizens. Hewlett Packard, IBM are some companies which were caught and paid hefty fines for doing that.

And regarding illegal immigration, it is the US businesses (mostly the farming community) which encourages it. No US citizen will ever work in that labor intensive low paying job. If they were, then the produce prices will rise. Yes it is a corporate greed combined with the American's insistence of the lowest price. Obama has nothing to with encouragement. In fact he was deporting illegals left and right (the highest ever among all Presidents.) This latest salvo is more humanitarian for keeping families together.

Oh BTW, LA guy5, I stand by my comments. I have no idea where you are coming from. New to the game, eh.[/QUOTE]You have not seen complete picture.

Before Indian IT body shops started sending truckloads of H-1 B applications they had a green channel called L1 B.

While rest of the countries were sending Nuclear scientists, Genetics researchers, TCS / Infosys used to send windows support guys under this category. After recession visa rules for L1 B were examined and implemented as It should have been so now Indian body shops have no other option than to send truckload of laborer via H-1 B and this will make H-1 B a sure shot lottery each year. Also MS students hunting for sponsors are no match for well oiled visa filing machines aka Indian body shops to beat them in first come first serve basis.

No matter what rosy picture corporate India is trying to paint, they are cheap body shops and will remain this way as long as Currency difference exists. Being cheap is business model of body shops and this is how they profit.

To give you an idea TCS pays just a little above minimum wage defined for any job category they are shopping people from India. They do not pay anywhere close to salary demanded by American citizen or even Indian green card holder. Except California, almost every state TCS pays just above minimum wage of 60 k per year irrespective of experience, skills of person. In California they are paying 79 k to 81 k for 10+ years experienced IT architect while when Yahoo had to send a junior person for junior position it paid 92 K and architects were well above 120 k.

Their pay levels are cheap and will remain cheap just for the fact that these shops do not have any intellectual property to sell, they just have people with ordinary technical skills to export. These shops bill to american organization and take very good cut then give some portion to IT laborer. In this business model they can not afford not to be cheap. Had there not been minimum wage requirement then these shops would have driven down American wage level down to third world rates.

I don't see anything remotely humanitarian about Obama's effort. Lack of vision, clarity and planning makes this move even more dangerous human crisis than not doing anything about it.

[QUOTE=Daddy07;1647861]I've found a good way to avoid all the hassle with USA immigration thugs. I just fly from Thailand to Mexico and cross the border late at night on foot at a remote location while no one is watching. I don't need a passport, visa or any papers at all. I don't even need permission. It's how all the smart sophisticated citizen travelers and immigrants go to the USA. Never has my baggage been searched; theres no snooping into my camera or laptop, no questions, no interrogation; I won't be arrested or prosecuted, and President Obama provides me with total immunity and amnesty from all those pesky immigration laws. I can stay as long as I please and go back to Thailand the way I came. It's like having a get out of jail free card.[/QUOTE]LOL! Well played, sir! Although this may be lost on the non-Yanks.

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;1647993]

I and my brother both have records and when I was coming and going from Thailand I got stopped why not it was all in the computer.

They stare sometimes copped a attitude because I was on probation I basically had no rights which was true.

Enjoy.[/QUOTE]So Scarface, what were you in for?

[QUOTE=DwayneJohnson;1648151]You have not seen complete picture.

Before Indian IT body shops started sending truckloads of H-1 B applications they had a green channel called L1 B.

While rest of the countries were sending Nuclear scientists, Genetics researchers, TCS / Infosys used to send windows support guys under this category. After recession visa rules for L1 B were examined and implemented as It should have been so now Indian body shops have no other option than to send truckload of laborer via H-1 B and this will make H-1 B a sure shot lottery each year. Also MS students hunting for sponsors are no match for well oiled visa filing machines aka Indian body shops to beat them in first come first serve basis.

No matter what rosy picture corporate India is trying to paint, they are cheap body shops and will remain this way as long as Currency difference exists. Being cheap is business model of body shops and this is how they profit.

To give you an idea TCS pays just a little above minimum wage defined for any job category they are shopping people from India. They do not pay anywhere close to salary demanded by American citizen or even Indian green card holder. Except California, almost every state TCS pays just above minimum wage of 60 k per year irrespective of experience, skills of person. In California they are paying 79 k to 81 k for 10+ years experienced IT architect while when Yahoo had to send a junior person for junior position it paid 92 K and architects were well above 120 k.

Their pay levels are cheap and will remain cheap just for the fact that these shops do not have any intellectual property to sell, they just have people with ordinary technical skills to export. These shops bill to american organization and take very good cut then give some portion to IT laborer. In this business model they can not afford not to be cheap. Had there not been minimum wage requirement then these shops would have driven down American wage level down to third world rates.

I don't see anything remotely humanitarian about Obama's effort. Lack of vision, clarity and planning makes this move even more dangerous human crisis than not doing anything about it.[/QUOTE]Anyone reading this, before coffee would do a double take and say " did I just stumble into a parallel universe where it looks like the Bangkok thread but actually isn't. ". I'm guilty as charged for having gone off on some tangents myself, but US visa's for Indian techies on the Bangkok thread?.

[QUOTE=FreebieFan;1648202]Anyone reading this, before coffee would do a double take and say " did I just stumble into a parallel universe where it looks like the Bangkok thread but actually isn't. ". I'm guilty as charged for having gone off on some tangents myself, but US visa's for Indian techies on the Bangkok thread?.[/QUOTE]Wow, no kidding! I got a headache half way and decided to quit reading for my own sake.

[QUOTE=Duniawala;1648090]And regarding illegal immigration, it is the US businesses (mostly the farming community) which encourages it. No US citizen will ever work in that labor intensive low paying job. If they were, then the produce prices will rise. Yes it is a corporate greed combined with the American's insistence of the lowest price. Obama has nothing to with encouragement. In fact he was deporting illegals left and right (the highest ever among all Presidents.) This latest salvo is more humanitarian for keeping families together.[/QUOTE]Farmers may encourage it so they aren't forced to automate (you gotta love farmers. On the one hand they demand cheap labor, on the other they get huge federal subsidies, and they continually cry poor all the way to the bank) but Americans WILL do this sort of work IF the pay is right.

If there were no illegals the price of farm labor would be higher. A head of lettuce might be $5, maybe $10. But California wouldn't have to spend far more than $25 Billion (with a B!) per year on the costs of illegals. This includes the staggering cost of public education for illegal children and anchor babies, medical care and prisons. Yes, these hard working illegals do commit a LOT of crimes. Drunk driving is a huge problem in some communities. Not every illegal is some hard-working saint. Loads of criminals and gang members are illegal, too. I'd be happy to pay more for my produce if we could put that 25 BILLION back into California taxpayers' pockets.

Oh, and that canard about Obama deporting more than any other president is malarkey. It's simply a lie, supported by fudging the numbers, much like ACA sign-ups. Previously, if an illegal was caught, for instance, walking down the street in Seattle, and deported, he was counted as a deportee. If a legal resident was convicted of a crime and deported he, too, was counted as a deportee. These are called "removals. " But if a Mexican was caught crossing the border and immediately sent back, he was NOT counted as a deportee. These were called "returns. " (You can see where this is going). The Obama administration started counting these types of apprehensions as deportations to make his numbers look better. More specifically, to break up smuggling rings and make it harder for somebody to keep trying at the same crossing point, until he succeeds, a given illegal may be transported to another city, and then deported. These types of "returns" are fraudulently counted by this administration as "removals. ".

But, I guess BO is just like Humpty Dumpty in "Through the Looking Glass" to his sycophants.

[I]"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less."[/I]

Therefore, BHO HAS been deporting illegals left and right, if he's in charge of the definition of "deport. ".

[URL]http://judiciary.house.gov/index.cfm/press-releases?ContentRecord_id=1B543962-A551-40F0-93E0-2F45654A36FE[/URL]

[QUOTE=Rjsss212;1648171]So Scarface, what were you in for?[/QUOTE]Make a contribution and not load up 750 with a bunch of comments and questions having to do with nothing. You are a troll Bye!

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1648211]Farmers may encourage it so they aren't forced to automate (you gotta love farmers. On the one hand they demand cheap labor, on the other they get huge federal subsidies, and they continually cry poor all the way to the bank) but Americans WILL do this sort of work IF the pay is right.

If there were no illegals the price of farm labor would be higher. A head of lettuce might be $5, maybe $10. But California wouldn't have to spend far more than $25 Billion (with a B!) per year on the costs of illegals. This includes the staggering cost of public education for illegal children and anchor babies, medical care and prisons. Yes, these hard working illegals do commit a LOT of crimes. Drunk driving is a huge problem in some communities. Not every illegal is some hard-working saint. Loads of criminals and gang members are illegal, too. I'd be happy to pay more for my produce if we could put that 25 BILLION back into California taxpayers' pockets.

Oh, and that canard about Obama deporting more than any other president is malarkey. It's simply a lie, supported by fudging the numbers, much like ACA sign-ups. Previously, if an illegal was caught, for instance, walking down the street in Seattle, and deported, he was counted as a deportee. If a legal resident was convicted of a crime and deported he, too, was counted as a deportee. These are called "removals. " But if a Mexican was caught crossing the border and immediately sent back, he was NOT counted as a deportee. These were called "returns. " (You can see where this is going). The Obama administration started counting these types of apprehensions as deportations to make his numbers look better. More specifically, to break up smuggling rings and make it harder for somebody to keep trying at the same crossing point, until he succeeds, a given illegal may be transported to another city, and then deported. These types of "returns" are fraudulently counted by this administration as "removals. ".

But, I guess BO is just like Humpty Dumpty in "Through the Looking Glass" to his sycophants.

[I]"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less."[/I]

Therefore, BHO HAS been deporting illegals left and right, if he's in charge of the definition of "deport. ".

[URL]http://judiciary.house.gov/index.cfm/press-releases?ContentRecord_id=1B543962-A551-40F0-93E0-2F45654A36FE[/URL][/QUOTE]Without insulting or ridicule, I don't think you will find US citizens doing farm labor or other menial jobs at even double the pay. I am glad you would pay double the price for produce to keep the taxes lower and to keep the economy going. I assume you are or have been here paying for poon at less than half the price of America. My question is why aren't you staying in America and paying double for poon to keep the economy going strong there?

[QUOTE=LAGuy5;1647531]Although "reasonable suspicion" is a rather low standard, lower than "probable cause," it is still significant that such a standard now exists in the Ninth Circuit. Consider instances (and there are some) where Customs and Immigration decides to search the digital devices of virtually every single male on a plane from Asia. Unless Customs and Immigration has some reasonable suspicion that this group of single males engaged in some criminal act (for example, "we have information they all belong to the United Automatic Editor will not allow this word Association") these kinds of en masse searches would be considered violations of the United States Constitution. While in individual cases it might not be so hard for Customs and Immigration to manufacture reasonable suspicion, the standard does get in the way of them routinely searching the digital media of large numbers of returning people because logically only a limited number could really be considered "reasonably suspicious."

So even in those jurisdictions that have a reasonable suspicion standard, persons returning to the United States must consider there still is a possibility of a search of your digital media, but the reasonable suspicion standard does lower that probability, probably significantly.[/QUOTE]Actually, I just re-read the 9 ths ruling and I'll post a link. The way I read this is that the 9th Circus ruled that the CBP guidelines are correct, and that there is NO requirement for reasonableness I order to perform a cursory examination of any electronic device coming across the border. So, the en masse inspection would be legal.

However, apparently the question raised by Cotterman was the extended forensic search of his computer. Was it an "extended border search" requiring probably cause, a warrant, etc. ? It seems the 9th said that this search did not reach that level and that it met the "reasonableness" standard.

So, if I read this correctly, any CBP agent can search anything he wants to, as long as it's a "cursory" search. Deeper forensic searches require "reasonable suspicion. ".

[URL]http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=10772993024204912488&hl=en&as_sdt=2006&as_vis=1[/URL]

[QUOTE=Dg8787;1648247]Without insulting or ridicule, I don't think you will find US citizens doing farm labor or other menial jobs at even double the pay. I am glad you would pay double the price for produce to keep the taxes lower and to keep the economy going. I assume you are or have been here paying for poon at less than half the price of America. My question is why aren't you staying in America and paying double for poon to keep the economy going strong there?[/QUOTE]Really?

First, do some research about wages and jobs in America. You'll be surprised at the wages people will accept. So, yes, if your "menial" work paid, say, $15/ hour, many people would be glad to accept those wages. And I take exception to denigrating productive work as "menial. " Some work may not be glamorous, or pay tons of money, but it's honest. It beats the hell out of standing on a corner with a "Will work for food" sign.

Second, how does the price of poon have anything to do with this argument? Prostitution is illegal in the USA, except for certain counties in Nevada. So, I would be facilitating a criminal enterprise of one form or another, NOT "keeping the economy strong. " Even if this nonsense had any bearing on the issue, I am NOT illegally sneaking into Mexico to buy poon, and then staying and sponging off the Mexican taxpayer for medical care, free education, subsidized food and housing, etc. , etc. , and claiming to keep the Mexican poon industry strong.

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1648251]Really?

First, do some research about wages and jobs in America. You'll be surprised at the wages people will accept. So, yes, if your "menial" work paid, say, $15/ hour, many people would be glad to accept those wages. And I take exception to denigrating productive work as "menial. " Some work may not be glamorous, or pay tons of money, but it's honest. It beats the hell out of standing on a corner with a "Will work for food" sign.

Second, how does the price of poon have anything to do with this argument? Prostitution is illegal in the USA, except for certain counties in Nevada. So, I would be facilitating a criminal enterprise of one form or another, NOT "keeping the economy strong. " Even if this nonsense had any bearing on the issue, I am NOT illegally sneaking into Mexico to buy poon, and then staying and sponging off the Mexican taxpayer for medical care, free education, subsidized food and housing, etc. , etc. , and claiming to keep the Mexican poon industry strong.[/QUOTE]Do research? I am an employer, I have real experience in this. Not many American workers at $15/ hour, at least not "honest days's work for a honest day's pay. Menial" is a common word used for this work classification. I haven't seen any Mexicans standing on the corner with signs for handouts. I think it is illegal for an American to go to another country to buy poon. So you are not buying American poon?

[QUOTE=Dg8787;1648261]I think it is illegal for an American to go to another country to buy poon.[/QUOTE]Totally false.

Edit: Well, it may be true that you think that, but it is not illegal for an American to go to another country to buy poon unless the girl is under 18 years of age.

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1648249]Actually, I just re-read the 9 ths ruling and I'll post a link. The way I read this is that the 9th Circus ruled that the CBP guidelines are correct, and that there is NO requirement for reasonableness I order to perform a cursory examination of any electronic device coming across the border. So, the en masse inspection would be legal.

However, apparently the question raised by Cotterman was the extended forensic search of his computer. Was it an "extended border search" requiring probably cause, a warrant, etc. ? It seems the 9th said that this search did not reach that level and that it met the "reasonableness" standard.

So, if I read this correctly, any CBP agent can search anything he wants to, as long as it's a "cursory" search. Deeper forensic searches require "reasonable suspicion. ".

[URL]http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=10772993024204912488&hl=en&as_sdt=2006&as_vis=1[/URL][/QUOTE]I think you are right. And although I don't enjoy being wrong, particularly on something as important as this, I do appreciate being corrected.

In any event, my quick read of it now suggests reasonable suspicion is necessary in the Ninth Circuit for a forensic analysis of a laptop (which is sometimes done onsite at the point of entry, other times not) but not for a cursory "boot the computer and let me look at a few files including any photos" search. I'm still going to look into this a bit more because I had thought there was something out there from the Ninth Circuit that was stronger than what I am reading in Cotterman now, but a quick google did not yield anything.

Some of my confusion about this case may have stemmed from the fact the business organizations who opposed the laptop searches at the border, [I]really[/I] did not like it when Customs and Immigration made copies of the laptop contents of their employees (which is often done for a forensic analysis). So the business organizations did hail this decision as a victory, perhaps leading me to believe the decision was broader than it actually was. But I thought I had read the case also, and it would appear either mis-read, or mis-remembered what it said.

[QUOTE=TwoTimeTed;1647813]I take it, you are talking about Thailand Customs?[/QUOTE]Sorry, I don't want to get back on this topic again, but I thought it would be polite to respond. No, I was talking about Canadian customs.

[QUOTE=FreebieFan;1648202]Anyone reading this, before coffee would do a double take and say " did I just stumble into a parallel universe where it looks like the Bangkok thread but actually isn't. ". I'm guilty as charged for having gone off on some tangents myself, but US visa's for Indian techies on the Bangkok thread?.[/QUOTE]I don't think that any of the vociferous members here have even given more than a cursory glance to your post.

You are a lone voice in the wilderness of UScentric tommyrot.

Ikks.

[QUOTE=Ikksman;1648284]I don't think that any of the vociferous members here have even given more than a cursory glance to your post.

You are a lone voice in the wilderness of UScentric tommyrot.

Ikks.[/QUOTE]They do quite worked up about this stuff don't they? .

[QUOTE=Dg8787;1648261]Do research? I am an employer, I have real experience in this. Not many American workers at $15/ hour, at least not "honest days's work for a honest day's pay. Menial" is a common word used for this work classification. I haven't seen any Mexicans standing on the corner with signs for handouts. I think it is illegal for an American to go to another country to buy poon. So you are not buying American poon?[/QUOTE]The median wage in the USA is around 28,000/ year last time I checked. It may be more now. That comes to what, about $13/ hour? So, about 50% of the working population would, indeed, like a $15/ hour job. A lot depends on where you, personally, are an employer. LA or SD, for instance, bears no resemblance to much of the rest of the country. Everything is very skewed.

I, too, rarely see Mexicans begging on the streets of California. Many have a very strong work ethic. That doesn't justify their breaking immigration law. But that is honest work. But my point was that any work at $15 an hour is better, from a societal standpoint, than sitting on your ass looking for handouts.

No, it's NOT illegal to go to other countries and purchase sex from consenting adults in countries where that is legal. It's illegal to go to other countries for kiddy-fiddling. No, I don't "buy American" when it comes to that.

There was this MILF nurse by name of June who worked at DR BJ does she still work there she stayed at ONUT.

Had taken her out a couple of times.

Was mature and sophisticated spoke good English and gave A + level service. Wonder if Dr BJ has transferred her to another of his establishments.

Please reply this post if anybody knows her whereabouts.

Thanks.

At dr BJ / at Aey waiting for your reply.

[QUOTE=LAGuy5;1648264]Totally false.

Edit: Well, it may be true that you think that, but it is not illegal for an American to go to another country to buy poon unless the girl is under 18 years of age.[/QUOTE]In my legal universe, what you do in another country is subject to the laws of that country. Meaning, "shopping" according to local age limits (_above_ or _below_ 18), public whipping of adulterers, death penalty to drug mules, legal DUI, imprisonment for insulting the local king, legal or illegal smoking of various herbs. It's all none of your homeland laws' business.

If you disagree to this, you are doing your country a pretty bad favor. It means you are happy to let citizens of other countries live by their own laws on your home turf. Or, you embrace double standards, which of course is just fine, as long as nobody else does. Right?

(Just trying to bend this off-topic thread back into something vaguely relevant to the BKK audience)

Monger on (accordingly)!

-Peff.

[QUOTE=Peff13;1648691]In my legal universe, what you do in another country is subject to the laws of that country. Meaning, "shopping" according to local age limits (_above_ or _below_ 18), public whipping of adulterers, death penalty to drug mules, legal DUI, imprisonment for insulting the local king, legal or illegal smoking of various herbs. It's all none of your homeland laws' business.

If you disagree to this, you are doing your country a pretty bad favor. It means you are happy to let citizens of other countries live by their own laws on your home turf. Or, you embrace double standards, which of course is just fine, as long as nobody else does. Right?

(Just trying to bend this off-topic thread back into something vaguely relevant to the BKK audience)

Monger on (accordingly)!

-Peff.[/QUOTE]Mmmm, it is a little more complicated than this.

Most legal systems allow for *their* legal system (or at least certain parts of it) to be exported on the back of their citizens. You carry (some part of) your legal system with you wherever you go.

But you will also be subject to the local legal system of the place you go to and the final system that applies to you is a complicated combination of both.

Most of the time it means that restrictions from both systems will apply together and it is safe to take that into account when you travel.

[QUOTE=Wolvenvacht;1648700]Mmmm, it is a little more complicated than this.

Most legal systems allow for *their* legal system (or at least certain parts of it) to be exported on the back of their citizens. You carry (some part of) your legal system with you wherever you go.

But you will also be subject to the local legal system of the place you go to and the final system that applies to you is a complicated combination of both.

Most of the time it means that restrictions from both systems will apply together and it is safe to take that into account when you travel.[/QUOTE]Correct, extra-territorial jurisdiction of penal laws is common in several jurisdictions and is generally a little more complex (at least in common law countries). The relevant penal code will specify the extent of application of the law beyond the shores of the home jurisdiction. But if you have been convicted in another jurisdiction (and served time), it is unlikely that the penal code in your home jurisdiction will prosecute you all over again for the same crime. But I think all this legal talk (re customs / immigration) is not leading anywhere and for lack of any actual FRs this seems to have become an endless discussion IMHO. :)

[QUOTE=Wolvenvacht;1648700]Mmmm, it is a little more complicated than this.

Most legal systems allow for *their* legal system (or at least certain parts of it) to be exported on the back of their citizens. You carry (some part of) your legal system with you wherever you go.

But you will also be subject to the local legal system of the place you go to and the final system that applies to you is a complicated combination of both.[/QUOTE]A good non-mongering example of this is the US Foreign Corrupt Practices Act ([URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Corrupt_Practices_Act[/URL]), which essentially prohibits, among other things, USA Citizens and entities from using bribery to gain commercial advantage in foreign countries. If the foreign country also prohibits the practice, bribing a governmental official in a foreign country represents a violation both of the law of the foreign country and that of the United States.

But I agree we need more FR's and fewer legal analyses here. I'll try to be good going forward.

[QUOTE=LAGuy5;1648739]A good non-mongering example of this is the US Foreign Corrupt Practices Act ([URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Corrupt_Practices_Act[/URL]), which essentially prohibits, among other things, USA Citizens and entities from using bribery to gain commercial advantage in foreign countries. If the foreign country also prohibits the practice, bribing a governmental official in a foreign country represents a violation both of the law of the foreign country and that of the United States.

But I agree we need more FR's and fewer legal analyses here. I'll try to be good going forward.[/QUOTE]Would the above apply to the LT. Gen Col? Thailand and his sidekicks who they just busted and had Billion Baht plus in his house plus a large sum of USA Cash?

[QUOTE=EthanHunt123;1647188]It's unfair to paint a whole race / religion in one color.

And BTW I am not from a Middle East country and nor I am Muslim. In case you were wondering.[/QUOTE]I would agree with that but perception is a powerful thing and as we look around the world today it is hard for non-Muslims not to come to the conclusion that Islam has gone far off the tracks and has become a radical violently dangerous movement that is attempting to undermine much of the progress in the advancement of human rights in the last 200 years. There may be historical reasons of colonialism, authoritarianism, bad government and poverty for some of this but what most of us see is the astonishing and savage brutality of Islam all over the Middle East, in Thailand, in the Philippines and terrorist attacks all over the world. This and the intolerance against women and people of other faiths and those who criticize Islam or Mohammed is incredibly alarming. And yes, as some like Ben Affleck will say this may be a relatively a small pct of the Muslims, but this has been going on for years now and I have yet to see any movement by the supposed moderates to put a stop to this. I have yet to see but a handful of clerics condemn all the violence. I have yet to see any Muslim of great influence come out and say Enough. This could not be going on for so long unless there was a tacit approval for much of this by the majority of Muslims whether Shia or Sunni. Its hard to see how this will ever end until Islam cures itself of the sickness within and until Muslims step forward to stop all of this.

[QUOTE=DRRonin;1648775]Islam has gone far off the tracks and has become a radical violently dangerous movement.[/QUOTE]This is where many people are wrong. It is right on track, doing what it supposed to since 632 AD.

This thread has gone way off topic.

Can somebody give few tips about patpong?

I have visited Bangkok 7 times but never ventured to patpong.

I searched this forum and others but very few recent topic.

Patpong has reputation for scams.

Club electric blue and Black pagoda seem to be least rip off places. Are these places anywhere close to comparison with Shark, Mandarin, Anglewitch etc?

Hi everyone,

Although I have already experienced a lot in my punter's carrier there are still things I haven't done and want to do, including a threesome MFM with DP. I am currently in Bangkok for a few days, I checked today a freelancer that has these options on her menu, she is easy to find online after some basic searches. I wanted to know if she was the same as pictured on her website. Although I am not positive she is, she is OK looking, has a nice body and most important is really skilled and does keep the promises stated on the "services" menu of her website. Anyway if someone is like me interested in this kind of experience drop me a private message, let's meet for a beer and see if we are looking for the same thing. I have a suite in a nice hotel, I can host the party. I am from Belgium and I am 34 years old, I will feel more comfortable with someone in my age range but most important I am looking for somebody cool who simply wants to have some fun. I am not looking for a bisexual thing, at all, but at some porn movie-like experience.

[QUOTE=DwayneJohnson;1648861]

Can somebody give few tips about patpong?

I have visited Bangkok 7 times but never ventured to patpong.

I searched this forum and others but very few recent topic.

Patpong has reputation for scams.

Club electric blue and Black pagoda seem to be least rip off places. Are these places anywhere close to comparison with Shark, Mandarin, Anglewitch etc?[/QUOTE]My first time in Bangkok I was staying in Silom area near Patpong. In my opinion there are only two good places in Patpong. One is the Star of Light BJ bar and the second the Music Cafe bar where some nice FLs can hang out from 11 pm onwards. Apart from these places I believe all the other places are lame and / or a rip off. Since my stay in Silom any time I've been back in BKK I've stayed in Sukhumvit. Cheers, Mac75.

Patpong's reputation for scam bars has done the area irreparable harm. But everything goes round in cycles. Patpong is where I popped my Thai cherry many, many years ago (1989). Patpong was once hot. Then it became a tourist trap and a rip off place. I think it is at long last on the upturn again. There are now a few quality bars on Potpong 2 with a cool vibe and plenty of friendly and attractive girls to make your acquaintance. After years (more than a decade) of avoiding the place, I now like to go there occasionally again. Just avoid the touts on the street and give them no never mind and I think you will have a great time.

Electric Blue is a good Go Go. No scams here and it offers a good atmosphere. They have some nice spinners. They have some plain girls too. YMMV, but in my opinion the joint is as good as Mandarin or Shark any night just different, but that is good thing, right? So go, give it a look / see, try it on for size and report back.

And while you are on Patpong Soi 2, check out Bada Bing. They have some very attractive coyote girls (higher cost) working there that you might fancy. I did.

I have not been to Black Pagoda or The Strip, but I heard these two bars can be good too. Specifically I have heard that just about anything goes behind the semi private curtains in the booths at the Strip. Just fine the right girl to your liking and have a blast.

Hi all,

I've only been to Soi Cowboy a few times, so apologies if this is a newbie question: I've noticed that none of the girls at any of the bars on Soi Cowboy are topless (at least not the ones I've been to). However, at the bar right around the corner (right off the main strip), all of the dancing girls are completely naked from head to toe. Just seems strange that this is the only bar that allows that. Is it some sort of gov't restriction on the main strip?

As title stands. Where to find genuine squirter? Any massage place? Gogo? Freelancer?

[QUOTE=DwayneJohnson;1648861]Can somebody give few tips about patpong?[/QUOTE]It's been one year since I've been in Patpong but at that time the places to go were (in order of preference) : Club Electric Blue (seems to be a steady honest gogo over the years. You can check the girls on their website and price for beers are good), The Strip and BadaBing.

[QUOTE=Tabasco72;1649124]As title stands. Where to find genuine squirter? Any massage place? Gogo? Freelancer?[/QUOTE]Did you try putting an ad in Craigslist?

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1647016]
BTW, one of my favorite restaurants is about 50 meters from that hotel. Between the hotel and Thonglor. Joke 55 Pojana. Looks shitty from the outside, but amazing food. You probably saw it. Some outdoor tables and some of the veges and seafood on display. About half way between the soi the Marriott is on and Soi 55.[/QUOTE]I really like 55 Pojana too. I stumbled across it one night on my way back from the Thonglor BTS station. It is just a unimposing store front with a very simple kitchen in the back, but I noticed they had a number of customers sitting out front on the sidewalk which is always a good sign. So I gave the place a try. I ordered the crispy duck with basil and chilli sauce and it was very tasty, Bpet Krob Pad Kra Pao. I can't wait to go back and try some of their other dishes.

Patpong, star of light is a rite of passage for BKK visitors. Make sure to go after 18:00 and get at least a BJ on the couch in front of the bar. If you are up for it, strip and bang away in front of the other guests.

Rose bar is seedier but provides the same service. Less quality and a disgusting room for services other than BJ. Did not repeat.

The touts will try to sell you for "massage with young girl", this translates to older provider at an expensive price. The real price is 1000-1500, the rest I assume is a fat commission. Avoid the touts, the will try to sell you movies of "people without I'd cards" and other disgusting shit. Also avoid the "fetish bar", the cover fee is high and gets you nothing.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;1649251]I really like 55 Pojana too. I stumbled across it one night on my way back from the Thonglor BTS station. It is just a unimposing store front with a very simple kitchen in the back, but I noticed they had a number of customers sitting out front on the sidewalk which is always a good sign. So I gave the place a try. I ordered the crispy duck with basil and chilli sauce and it was very tasty, Bpet Krob Pad Kra Pao. I can't wait to go back and try some of their other dishes.[/QUOTE]Great stuff! There is another Pojana right next to the Rex Hotel on Suk. Amazing, especially for sea food.

[QUOTE=LAGuy5;1648739]A good non-mongering example of this is the US Foreign Corrupt Practices Act ([URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Corrupt_Practices_Act[/URL]), which essentially prohibits, among other things, USA Citizens and entities from using bribery to gain commercial advantage in foreign countries. If the foreign country also prohibits the practice, bribing a governmental official in a foreign country represents a violation both of the law of the foreign country and that of the United States.

But I agree we need more FR's and fewer legal analyses here. I'll try to be good going forward.[/QUOTE]I agree that this is a good example of how things are today. I do however not agree to the claims that a nation is _entitled_ to enforce its own laws on its citizens inside other countries. To the same degree that I do not accept that any "sharia" or other alien legislation is applicable for punishment of people inside my own country.

Sorry, could not hold it in. Now I'll do my best to shut up about this and get back into reporting mode.

Monger on!

-Peff.

[QUOTE=Optional;1649081]Hi all,

I've only been to Soi Cowboy a few times, so apologies if this is a newbie question: I've noticed that none of the girls at any of the bars on Soi Cowboy are topless (at least not the ones I've been to). However, at the bar right around the corner (right off the main strip), all of the dancing girls are completely naked from head to toe. Just seems strange that this is the only bar that allows that. Is it some sort of gov't restriction on the main strip?[/QUOTE]You are talking about Crazy House where most of the time some of the girls are completely naked. But for sure you can find some nudity in other gogo's in Soi Cowboy.

Suzie Wong will give you some naked ladies and Baccara on fist floor have one shift that goes topless. And all ladies in Baccara, on every floor, do not wear any underwear under their skirts.

All above mentioned I did check myself just last week.

[QUOTE=Tabasco72;1649124]As title stands. Where to find genuine squirter? Any massage place? Gogo? Freelancer?[/QUOTE]

The infamous Tulip massage at Thong Lor BTS. Choose Ying. When in the mood very much a squirter (got me drenched), but YMMV, genuine squirts cannot be faked or produced on demand.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;1649406]The infamous Tulip massage at Thong Lor BTS. Choose Ying. When in the mood very much a squirter (got me drenched), but YMMV, genuine squirts cannot be faked or produced on demand.[/QUOTE]That's genuine pp you got drenched with, you know that, don't you?

[QUOTE=Gorgon;1649301]Patpong, star of light is a rite of passage for BKK visitors. Make sure to go after 18:00 and get at least a BJ on the couch in front of the bar. If you are up for it, strip and bang away in front of the other guests.

Rose bar is seedier but provides the same service. Less quality and a disgusting room for services other than BJ. Did not repeat.

The touts will try to sell you for "massage with young girl", this translates to older provider at an expensive price. The real price is 1000-1500, the rest I assume is a fat commission. Avoid the touts, the will try to sell you movies of "people without I'd cards" and other disgusting shit. Also avoid the "fetish bar", the cover fee is high and gets you nothing.[/QUOTE]Are things back to normal at SOL? On my previous visit, the in-house service was not available, and I was asked if I would like to go to a short time hotel.

[QUOTE=Daddy07;1649474]That's genuine pp you got drenched with, you know that, don't you?[/QUOTE]Why do you feel the need to squirt on his parade?

[QUOTE=Zahle;1649529]Are things back to normal at SOL? On my previous visit, the in-house service was not available, and I was asked if I would like to go to a short time hotel.[/QUOTE]I have been trapped in farangland for a few months so I am not updated. Since when have they changed and any news of why?

[QUOTE=EthanHunt123;1649775]Really depends on the phone. Head to Prantip. Loads of shops there. And please bargain around.[/QUOTE]Pratnip is awesome.

I was there today. This is the direction that I found, but I used a motorbike taxi instead (30 b going there, 40 b coming back):

Multistory mall for computer hardware, software and accessories at reasonable prices. Bargain hard and get a receipt.

How to Get There: SkyTrain to N2 Phaya Thai Station (Sukhumvit Line). Take Exit 2, get Tuk-Tuk along New Phetchaburi Rd. About 2 km, Pantip Plaza is on right.

Spaceman.

P.S. Do try the Kao Soi noodle on 2nd floor food court.

[QUOTE=Rjsss212;1649901]Pratnip is awesome.[/QUOTE]I prefer Fortune Town. Far less crowded and connected to an MRT station.

Hi folks,

I'm in Bangkok tomorrow till evening. Please recommend quality chicks who can come to my hotel at Soi 11 during the day. Am here only till 5 pm. Much appreciated. Will repay the favour in Bangalore!

Please PM.

Cheers,

A

Visited this place in the beginning of November whilst having a stopover in BKK on my way to HKT.

Located on Soi 14 (as you enter Soi 14, turn right into the small alley), Som is a very friendly owner, also very nice atmosphere as other visitors are friendly and chatty. Girls are very different, some quite nice, some not so attractive. Went upstairs with a girl but forgot her name unfortunately, great BBBJ and CIM for 700 baht. They also have FS available for 1200 baht if I'm not mistaken, girl has tried to upsell it, but I wasn't in a mood. No English though and I found girls there in general speaking almost no English. The rooms are adequate and clean.

Overall, a nice place for quality and inexpensive BJ, the place is really small, which for me is a good thing as it creates a friendly atmosphere.

[QUOTE=KoperenKarel;1650216]Check some basic facts before posting alarmist rubbish.

The country with the largest Muslim population in the world is not Saudi Arabia but Indonesia. The Indonesians are regarded, at least in my country, the former coloniser, as being the catholics amongst the Muslims meaning they take a pragmatic view of their religion. Rules are all good and nice but they should not interfere too much with daily life.

You can call Islam hard-line, and some fractions are that, but Christianity is not free from hardliners itself. The Spanish inquisition in the dark past, hard-line American fundamentalists (murders near abortion clinics, remember?) And so on, and so on.

Regards,

Ko.[/QUOTE]I don't disagree with the overall sentiment, but it seems Indonesia may be moving in a more fundamentalist direction. Nothing like Saudi Arabia, but enough to raise some alarm bells. Some church burnings, minority persecution, and so forth. For example: [URL]http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/22/opinion/no-model-for-muslim-democracy.html?_r=0.[/URL].

[QUOTE=LAGuy5;1650231]I don't disagree with the overall sentiment, but it seems Indonesia may be moving in a more fundamentalist direction. Nothing like Saudi Arabia, but enough to raise some alarm bells. Some church burnings, minority persecution, and so forth. For example: [URL]http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/22/opinion/no-model-for-muslim-democracy.html?_r=0.[/URL].[/QUOTE]It's amazing how you guys go so far off topic.

I opened the Bkk thread to get some mongering tips for an upcoming trip and had to dig past numerous posts about Indonesian / Saudi stuff and cell phone tips to get to the topic of the thread.

[QUOTE=RedKilt;1650252]It's amazing how you guys go so far off topic.

I opened the Bkk thread to get some mongering tips for an upcoming trip and had to dig past numerous posts about Indonesian / Saudi stuff and cell phone tips to get to the topic of the thread.[/QUOTE]Point taken with regard to the Islam / Saudi Arabia / Indonesia posts, but where would you suggest people who want to know where in Bangkok, if anywhere, a cell-phone can be unlocked should post this question, if not here?

[QUOTE=Mogwai;1650333]In the thread 'General Reports'.[/QUOTE]Really? Are you sure that Phon Sim is not a Bangkok neighbourhood, in the vicinity of Lap Top? Or was it Phat Thong or Wong Ho? Hard to tell for a newbie, you know.

-Peff.

[QUOTE=Mogwai;1650333]In the thread 'General Reports'.[/QUOTE]Sorry, but I can't seem to find a Bangkok General Reports thread where one could appropriately ask LS22's question "Anyone know if iPhone 6 from Verizon in america could be unlocked in Bangkok?" So I'm guessing here's the place.

[QUOTE=Arxarx;1650172]Hi folks,

I'm in Bangkok tomorrow till evening. Please recommend quality chicks who can come to my hotel at Soi 11 during the day. Am here only till 5 pm. Much appreciated. Will repay the favour in Bangalore!

Please PM.

Cheers,

A[/QUOTE]If you stroll down to the small "arcade" next to the Villa Supermarket in Soi11, there is about a dozen small massaseshops. Girls there will be happy to service you in your hotel.

[QUOTE=LAGuy5;1650347]Sorry, but I can't seem to find a Bangkok General Reports thread where one could appropriately ask LS22's question "Anyone know if iPhone 6 from Verizon in america could be unlocked in Bangkok?" So I'm guessing here's the place.[/QUOTE]I meant the General Reports thread under Thailand. It's meant for general questions no matter the location in Thailand.

[QUOTE=Arxarx;1650172]Hi folks,

I'm in Bangkok tomorrow till evening. Please recommend quality chicks who can come to my hotel at Soi 11 during the day. Am here only till 5 pm. Much appreciated. Will repay the favour in Bangalore!

Please PM.

Cheers,

A[/QUOTE]Bangkok is exactly opposite of Bangalore. It's full of pussy, less hustle, scams, no LE worries hence you don't have to wait for others to recommend a chick.

Soi 11 has climax, levels and Q bar where you can pick up quality freelancers and lot of working girls (and LB's) hang around this area at night.

Nana is near by, It is my favorite place after Ratchada soapies.

If you are in hurry then better call 101 premiere massage girls for outcall. There are other escort services but I tried this one during short stay long time ago.

It might be too late posting this but enjoy Bangkok mate.

[QUOTE=Wolvenvacht;1650542]I don't think Christians have a better track record than Muslims. As a matter of fact, all religions have their dark sides and I don't think one is better than any other.[/QUOTE]I don't think DRRonin tried to convey that one is better than other.

Steven Weinberg once said "Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. "

On those lines Islam is current [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] of human dignity and if you see anyone close to you getting raped will you try to prevent it or will you ask victim to bare with it because there is big track record other [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord127][CodeWord127][/url] than the one right now?

I am rude and politically incorrect but there is no other way to put it, sorry for that.

So far I have a mixed experience dating on ThaiFriendly, ThaiLoveLine.

I bet almost all of the bar girls, MP girls along with non-sex worker girls have profiles here.

Some of the really hot girls seem to interact mostly with Thai guys but if you are good looking and young then you will get positive response for your perseverance (Even if you are not good looking, young but some developed nation citizenship such as US should work like a charm for many cases). I was shocked to see how quickly these non working girls are ready to sleep on first date.

One girl I met was not girl at all (photoshop is liberally used) but one more girl was one of the cutest girls I have ever been with.

Something worth a try for freebies but lot of time needs to be invested and depends on your luck also.

[QUOTE=DwayneJohnson;1650555]So far I have a mixed experience dating on ThaiFriendly, ThaiLoveLine.

I bet almost all of the bar girls, MP girls along with non-sex worker girls have profiles here.

Some of the really hot girls seem to interact mostly with Thai guys but if you are good looking and young then you will get positive response for your perseverance (Even if you are not good looking, young but some developed nation citizenship such as US should work like a charm for many cases). I was shocked to see how quickly these non working girls are ready to sleep on first date.

One girl I met was not girl at all (photoshop is liberally used) but one more girl was one of the cutest girls I have ever been with.

Something worth a try for freebies but lot of time needs to be invested and depends on your luck also.[/QUOTE]I had a friend who told me that he had stopped going to bars to find girls and was now having great luck with Tango, which is a free app you can download to your phone and it will allow you to contact loads of girls with their photos ("Discover People", "People Nearby", "Filter to "See Women Only". I have looked through the photos and though most are not great looking some seem to be (some are Ladyboys). A few have contacted me with a "wink" and I need to reply at some point. But the thing with Tango is that I don't believe all the girls on there are out for action but just use it as a messenger service like Line. Has anyone else had much success with Tango?

You are bang on about Bangalore DJ. Thanks for the inputs. On the whole, while Bangkok has its highlights I found that the quality of freelance escorts is much lower than in KL or SGP.

Still. Will be returning to Bangkok soon! Appreciate your response mate!8.

[QUOTE=DwayneJohnson;1650548]Bangkok is exactly opposite of Bangalore. It's full of pussy, less hustle, scams, no LE worries hence you don't have to wait for others to recommend a chick.

Soi 11 has climax, levels and Q bar where you can pick up quality freelancers and lot of working girls (and LB's) hang around this area at night.

Nana is near by, It is my favorite place after Ratchada soapies.

If you are in hurry then better call 101 premiere massage girls for outcall. There are other escort services but I tried this one during short stay long time ago.

It might be too late posting this but enjoy Bangkok mate.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=DRRonin;1650685]I had a friend who told me that he had stopped going to bars to find girls and was now having great luck with Tango[/QUOTE]Thanks, I will try tango once I am able to get some free time between my thaifriendly, TLL girls and non-thaifriendly GF.

[QUOTE=DwayneJohnson;1650958]Thanks, I will try tango once I am able to get some free time between my thaifriendly, TLL girls and non-thaifriendly GF.[/QUOTE]There is also Wechat and Bee Chat which you can search people in the area. I have met lots of office girls and shopping malls girls on these two sites and shagged on the first date, no money involved as well.

Still seeing one girl from the shopping mall located on Soi 24, she's 24 and want to shag me non stop. Even met her during her lunch break for a quick jump in a ST hotel.

Loads of freebies on these two sites, granted some are PFP but most just want a farrang, any farrang too LOL!

Mentions last week of Patpong made me curious so I went there last Saturday night.

It was maybe a year since I've been there.

Man, the place is still grim and depressing.

Nothing much I fancied walking around.

Went inside Club Electric Blue where I had a great time last time I went.

Place was pretty quiet (it's a Saturday night!

Full of Asian peoples (lots of Japanese and also. But that's only a guest. Some Chinese).

Almost no dancer even made eye contact with me (no, I'm not that ugly).

At last, draft beers are pretty cheap.

They even mention the aggressive touts and the stupid market.

The past 2 weeks I keep getting webssearches, yes 2 s's, which then makes it my default search engine, I got rid of it yesterday for the 3rd time and now it just popped up again when viewing ISG. I was viewing ISG and the page closed itself and webssearches opened in a new window. I am wondering if it installs itself when viewing ISG? Anybody else having the same problem?

[QUOTE=Bart1;1651725]The past 2 weeks I keep getting webssearches, yes 2 s's, which then makes it my default search engine, I got rid of it yesterday for the 3rd time and now it just popped up again when viewing ISG. I was viewing ISG and the page closed itself and webssearches opened in a new window. I am wondering if it installs itself when viewing ISG? Anybody else having the same problem?[/QUOTE]No I don't have it. Its probably not to do with ISG. Its not always so easy to get rid of these things off your computer. You might need an expert to assist you.

I had some pesky websearch replacement home page in the past and remember took several attempts to clean it out completely.

[QUOTE=Bart1;1651725]The past 2 weeks I keep getting webssearches, yes 2 s's, which then makes it my default search engine, I got rid of it yesterday for the 3rd time and now it just popped up again when viewing ISG. I was viewing ISG and the page closed itself and webssearches opened in a new window. I am wondering if it installs itself when viewing ISG? Anybody else having the same problem?[/QUOTE][URL]http://malwaretips.com/blogs/webs-searches-removal/[/URL] lists what you need to do to clean your PC from Webs Searcher.

[QUOTE=Wolvenvacht;1651832][URL]http://malwaretips.com/blogs/webs-searches-removal/[/URL] lists what you need to do to clean your PC from Webs Searcher.[/QUOTE]I have had success using this [URL]http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/download/combofix/[/URL].

[QUOTE=Bart1;1651725]The past 2 weeks I keep getting webssearches, yes 2 s's, which then makes it my default search engine, I got rid of it yesterday for the 3rd time and now it just popped up again when viewing ISG. I was viewing ISG and the page closed itself and webssearches opened in a new window. I am wondering if it installs itself when viewing ISG? Anybody else having the same problem?[/QUOTE]System restore should solve your problems. Go into the control panel and under system and security look for the option to restore your computer to an earlier time, hopefully something around 1 month back or so is available. If that doesn't work another option is to just reset your computer to factory settings (you'll lose everything).

Seriously, what's going on in BKK about FL scene?

As compared to my Feb. Visit, the number of freelancers on Sukumvit was down by as much as 60-80% ! I am not kidding, there were no more than 50 girls around 9 PM on the road whereas in Feb I must have seen 200+. The pickings were slim and horrible. The FL scene seems to have gone down the drain completely, perhaps due to crackdown by army. Visited Biere garten couple of times, my friend liked a girl that looked crappy to me. Anyways, turned out to be total crap, had to get her out of room in 30 minutes. Waste of 2000 bahts. On at least 4 visits, I hardly saw any doable, let alone nice ones except one who spoke excellent English.

Does anyone know why the FL numbers are so low?

At this rate BKK is reduced to MPs, a go-gos and Bars.

Was in Bkk for 3 nights. Had a amazing time with some FLs. I will keep this short and crisp.

Day 1.

Slept till noon and ventured out to the pool area made couple of friends from Greece and Poland. We all headed in the evening to Levels. Set sight on a cute 24 year old Noi. Partied till midnight and took her to the room for 1500 B. Excellent service and all on the menu except anal. She realised in the morning that she lost her phone in the taxi. Went with her in the morning on the hunt for her phone.

Day 2.

Visited Nataree at 2 pm. Still the best place to go to among the soapies. They have the best women ranging from 2600 B to 5000 B. Got a busty one for a change in routine from the past night adventure. Good Service and VFM. Evening headed to Climax opened a bottle before 11 pm got a 50% discount. The were 4 waiters and some 10 girls around the table. Caught up with a South American chick and got her to join the table and we got drunk and made or way back to the room. What a night it was worth every penny spent for the Bunda.

We are good friends now and in touch regularly.

Day 3.

Visited Addict massage average line up did one 20 year old and moved to Mango who had a good line up. Choose Mae she was amazing and also did anal with no extra cost ended in CIM. Night again fixed up the date with my previous night girlfriend and head to Spasso. Had a rocking time and did her in my hotel again but for free this time as she had no customer and liked me.

I have been visiting Thailand for the past 9 years. The best part of this Country is I get to have adventures and meet new people. Every visit is a new experience but nothing would have changed in general.

[QUOTE=Margaya;1651919]Seriously, what's going on in BKK about FL scene?


Does anyone know why the FL numbers are so low?

At this rate BKK is reduced to MPs, a go-gos and Bars.[/QUOTE]This is actually a trend that has been going on for close to a decade now. The streets of Bangkok used to overflow with freelancers at night but those days are long gone. This metamorphosis though has speeded up dramatically over the past few years basically due to the police arresting girls on a regular basis. It made being out on the streets economically untenable plus there were other options. Most of the FL scene has moved indoors with girls going to late night discos, Thermae, Gullivers or Beer Garden or onto the Internet. Even taking this into account though the FL scene is still not all that great; prices have risen, numbers have declined, average age is much higher and though quality is in the eyes of the beholder I don't hear but a few who think the looks of most of the fls are worth a bucket of spit. I went back home for 2 months and even in that small period of time I have noticed the number of girls around Nana Hotel has shrunk even more with many nights no more than 5-10 girls out. Of course this is part of a larger trend of girls finding other work options than renting their bodies out by the hour. But that is another story.

[QUOTE=DRRonin;1651994]This is actually a trend that has been going on for close to a decade now. The streets of Bangkok used to overflow with freelancers at night but those days are long gone. This metamorphosis though has speeded up dramatically over the past few years basically due to the police arresting girls on a regular basis. It made being out on the streets economically untenable plus there were other options. Most of the FL scene has moved indoors with girls going to late night discos, Thermae, Gullivers or Beer Garden or onto the Internet. Even taking this into account though the FL scene is still not all that great; prices have risen, numbers have declined, average age is much higher and though quality is in the eyes of the beholder I don't hear but a few who think the looks of most of the fls are worth a bucket of spit. I went back home for 2 months and even in that small period of time I have noticed the number of girls around Nana Hotel has shrunk even more with many nights no more than 5-10 girls out. Of course this is part of a larger trend of girls finding other work options than renting their bodies out by the hour. But that is another story.[/QUOTE]Very good analysis. Yes, increasing salaries in Thailand over the past 10 years is a big part of it. I think bigger than the police issue. A gal can now support herself without having to "supplement" that income. I miss the "semi-pros" of 10-15 years ago. Gals who worked and office job and came out a few times a month to make a little extra. They always seemed to make a good time of it and were selective and for the most part horny as hamsters; a far cry from most full time FLs today. And those that are bright and can speak and write a little English are working the net and the high dollar hotel discos. So what are we left with on the street and the lower end venues? Gals that are either not smart enough to get a "legit" job or those that are just plain lazy and prefer the lifestyle of a parasite. Neither option is that attractive and it is a trend that will not reverse itself. In just a few short years the scene here will resemble what you have in most developed nations. Very high end and very low end and nothing in the middle. The middle was the bread and butter for many of us for years. Sad to see it go.

[QUOTE=Margaya;1651919]Seriously, what's going on in BKK about FL scene?

As compared to my Feb. Visit, the number of freelancers on Sukumvit was down by as much as 60-80% ! I am not kidding, there were no more than 50 girls around 9 PM on the road whereas in Feb I must have seen 200+. The pickings were slim and horrible. The FL scene seems to have gone down the drain completely, perhaps due to crackdown by army. Visited Biere garten couple of times, my friend liked a girl that looked crappy to me. Anyways, turned out to be total crap, had to get her out of room in 30 minutes. Waste of 2000 bahts. On at least 4 visits, I hardly saw any doable, let alone nice ones except one who spoke excellent English.

Does anyone know why the FL numbers are so low?[/QUOTE]It's quite simple. Your visit in Febrauary 2014 should have been the high season, but due to the political turmoil at the time it was a very low season. ISG reports at the time indicated it was a value time to be in Bangkok. Few punters meant more girls per guy & so therefore it was easier to pick up an attractive or even stunning girl.

OTOH fast forward to November 2014, a true high season in Bangkok. Many ladies are just not available relative to the low season as their returning repeat customers are booking them as soon as they arrive. Therefore they have no need to be on the streets soliciting business.

Like I've said before, a number of times, I always find the low seasons are the best time to visit Bangkok.

[QUOTE=DRRonin;1651994]Even taking this into account though the FL scene is still not all that great; prices have risen, numbers have declined, average age is much higher and though quality is in the eyes of the beholder I don't hear but a few who think the looks of most of the fls are worth a bucket of spit. I went back home for 2 months and even in that small period of time I have noticed the number of girls around Nana Hotel has shrunk even more with many nights no more than 5-10 girls out. Of course this is part of a larger trend of girls finding other work options than renting their bodies out by the hour. But that is another story.[/QUOTE]Even as recently as early 2014 one could often see 20 ladies of the street sitting outdoors by the Nana Hotel restaurant & another 10 standing at the sidewalk next to the hotel car park, so 30 in total. As the lineup would continue to change throughout the evening, I'd estimate around 100 different girls in total per day.

FF to November 2014 the hotel has new ownership that doesn't want them on the property, so the girls who used to sit or stand near the restaurant have gone elsewhere in the nearby vicinity. One doesn't need to hire Sherlock Holmes to discover where.

From my observations, comparing early to late 2014, the candy there now is generally younger & of a far higher quality in looks than in the video I posted recently from December 2013.

In that December 2013 most bodies were not of any interest of me looks wise, but the same would be true of any beer bar, gogo or FL venue I've ever seen in the NEP district. Still there were several very doable to choose from, even for those like myself who are quite picky & prefer looks of a higher standard. BTW I've often seen hotter ones there than in that vid.

As other punters have said here several times before, all you need is one. One lovely hole to be filled with one hot dog. I only have one, not 10 like my toes. So why focus on the unattractive ones? They can be found anywhere. Though guys looking for BBW or "curvy" gals may not be happy with the slim young lineup at the NPL. LOL.

[QUOTE=Margaya;1651919]
Does anyone know why the FL numbers are so low?

At this rate BKK is reduced to MPs, a go-gos and Bars.[/QUOTE]Some time ago, there used to be quite a lot of freelancers in bars, that got no salary and could come and go as they please, but owners did not like it. It seems less available these days except for maybe exceptional girls, or due to tougher times, more girls are wanting to get a salary.

Soapies also used to have a lot of freelancers, that work when they feel like it. Perhaps they still do. I am not sure.

Oily MPs don't have many freelancers, I think. Girls are required to work very heavy schedule and have fines for taking extra days off.

Annies and Dr BJ etc. , has a price for a guy buying a girl out of perhaps 200 K Baht. This means the girl leaves but can still return in the future. I have heard of a girl "buying out" herself for a reduced fee in order to become a freelancer and attend on a more casual basis.

I have a tendency to like freelancers of these types, whether in bars or Soapies, because they are not necessarily worked to exhaustion, and can have more interest to have fun. Its also a very good idea to visit MP working girls very early in the day before they get tired, to get an energetic performance. I have also had good experiences with other freelancers, but not so keen to pick up in Biergarten due to high percentage of low standard looks. Thermae in years long gone by was good for me.

In modern day I don't really like the music in discos, "Spicy" was particularly bad for the music (would not go there again), as I come from the rock era, the lengthy waste of time, and don't want to drink alcohol. So I am mostly using regular girls I already know well. When they are good enough, I don't get bored. I have nothing much to report as no point in repeating comments about same girls too many times.

I must be heading towards what that other guy kept calling his serial semi-monogamy in Thailand.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1652031]Very good analysis. Yes, increasing salaries in Thailand over the past 10 years is a big part of it. I think bigger than the police issue. A gal can now support herself without having to "supplement" that income. [/QUOTE]I really don't agree with these so called great salaries. Seems to be a recurring theme.

Oh yes it has risen, ha ha, with what sort of lifestyle? The average Thai wages per month has reached just over 13,000 baht from just over 6000 baht 10 years ago. Ichecked the official figures. Consumer price index for the real basics has not increased quite that much. However modern girls buy expensive gadgets like iphones, Galaxys, tablets, etc. In old days very few would dream of using that sort of money.

I rent a small apartment now well out from the expensive areas. Its still over 10 K per month including the electricity bill. Who could survive on a 13 K salary? I went to Tesco with Mrs. The other day and she stocked up on a few bottles of soaps, shampoos, lotions etc. I still got a bad shock when my shopping bill was over 3 K. I was able to carry these goods home by hand, so not such a massive amount by weight. This is for Thai goods, not imported. However, price of petrol (gas for Americans) is very high here compared to USA, so cost of transporting goods is very high.

Is it as easy for a sex worker to make double what they could 10 years ago. Perhaps not. Perhaps the possibility that sex work is becoming less lucrative (for very average girls) could be a bigger issue, making other normal work pay seem a little more competitive. I do know some special girls that are very busy making big money but it surely is not the norm. I know plenty that are struggling, but still forced to do it when their other work just had no customers.

Take a hot sex worker that I know who makes well over 100 K per month. Compare that to what she would earn in a normal job, with no high education. She would make peanuts in a normal job, 10% if she was lucky. She is still studying English as I am sure she will plan to retire from sex work eventually, and will have to do something else.

I agree with you and DRRonin's excellent analysis. Rising prosperity is changing the scene all over the world but Thailand seems to be moving faster than other countries. I was literally stunned to see massive vaporization of FLs. Perhaps some have moved to cyberspace but at this rate, BKK will begin to resemble developed countries scene.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1652031]Very good analysis. Yes, increasing salaries in Thailand over the past 10 years is a big part of it. I think bigger than the police issue. A gal can now support herself without having to "supplement" that income. I miss the "semi-pros" of 10-15 years ago. Gals who worked and office job and came out a few times a month to make a little extra. They always seemed to make a good time of it and were selective and for the most part horny as hamsters; a far cry from most full time FLs today. And those that are bright and can speak and write a little English are working the net and the high dollar hotel discos. So what are we left with on the street and the lower end venues? Gals that are either not smart enough to get a "legit" job or those that are just plain lazy and prefer the lifestyle of a parasite. Neither option is that attractive and it is a trend that will not reverse itself. In just a few short years the scene here will resemble what you have in most developed nations. Very high end and very low end and nothing in the middle. The middle was the bread and butter for many of us for years. Sad to see it go.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1652112]I really don't agree with these so called great salaries. Seems to be a recurring theme.

Oh yes it has risen, ha ha, with what sort of lifestyle? The average Thai wages per month has reached just over 13,000 baht from just over 6000 baht 10 years ago. Ichecked the official figures. Consumer price index for the real basics has not increased quite that much. However modern girls buy expensive gadgets like iphones, Galaxys, tablets, etc. In old days very few would dream of using that sort of money.

I rent a small apartment now well out from the expensive areas. Its still over 10 K per month including the electricity bill. Who could survive on a 13 K salary? I went to Tesco with Mrs. The other day and she stocked up on a few bottles of soaps, shampoos, lotions etc. I still got a bad shock when my shopping bill was over 3 K. I was able to carry these goods home by hand, so not such a massive amount by weight. This is for Thai goods, not imported. However, price of petrol (gas for Americans) is very high here compared to USA, so cost of transporting goods is very high.

Is it as easy for a sex worker to make double what they could 10 years ago. Perhaps not. Perhaps the possibility that sex work is becoming less lucrative (for very average girls) could be a bigger issue, making other normal work pay seem a little more competitive. I do know some special girls that are very busy making big money but it surely is not the norm. I know plenty that are struggling, but still forced to do it when their other work just had no customers.

Take a hot sex worker that I know who makes well over 100 K per month. Compare that to what she would earn in a normal job, with no high education. She would make peanuts in a normal job, 10% if she was lucky. She is still studying English as I am sure she will plan to retire from sex work eventually, and will have to do something else.[/QUOTE]Actually when you are looking at average you are factoring in construction workers and min wage workers as well. Office workers ie those with degrees and skills make far more than they did 10 years ago. Far more. 13 k is what a gal will make working in a so-so restaurant or in a mediocre dept store, 25-30 k is what a just few years experience gets you in a decent (not great) office job. And sorry that is enough to live on. Sex work is not a choice occupation, no matter how much we might want it to be. Give most women the opportunity to earn 30 k at a "legit" job or work as a prostitute for 60-100 k and the vast majority will chose the former. Bottom line is a gal can make a living now at a regular job.

And if she has a Thai boyfriend who is also degreed they can make 60 k plus a month. Guess what? They can afford a condo and a car. Also, their salaries will increase in time. The average salary has increase 50% since 2008!
BTW, have you tried to hire any employees here lately? Well, we have. Want a good degreed employee with a few years experience who speaks "some" English? Good luck getting anyone under 30k. Ain't going to happen.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1652167]Actually when you are looking at average you are factoring in construction workers and min wage workers as well. Office workers ie those with degrees and skills make far more than they did 10 years ago. Far more. 13 k is what a gal will make working in a so-so restaurant or in a mediocre dept store, 25-30 k is what a just few years experience gets you in a decent (not great) office job. And sorry that is enough to live on. Sex work is not a choice occupation, no matter how much we might want it to be. Give most women the opportunity to earn 30 k at a "legit" job or work as a prostitute for 60-100 k and the vast majority will chose the former. Bottom line is a gal can make a living now at a regular job.

And if she has a Thai boyfriend who is also degreed they can make 60 k plus a month. Guess what? They can afford a condo and a car. Also, their salaries will increase in time. The average salary has increase 50% since 2008![/QUOTE]And this is what separates Thai working girls from Philippine working girls. The economic opportunities available for young Filipinas entering the labor force are scant to non existent and the pay, if they are lucky enough to find a job, is usually not enough to live on well. This is one reason why Filipinas, even those with jobs, look at Farangs differently than their Thai sisters do. Go to Makati, Cebu City, AC or Subic and you will feel the difference just walking around in the malls. Filipinas of all backgrounds except the very wealthy want to meet, go out with, and be economically rescued by Westerners. Then take a poor girl from the boonies, knocked up and deserted by her Filipino boyfriend at an early age and you have the source of an endless supply of young, desirable, very friendly bar girls.

My favorite BKK Go Go girl's apartment is very nice and respectable, meaning that while it is a small studio apartment, the building has 24 hour security and is in a middle class neighborhood and is not that different really from what a middle class college coed might live in while away at school in Kansas. In contrast, my favorite Subic bar girl lives in a shitty one room dormitory that she shares with 20 other girls. Each girl has a bunk bed and there is only one common bathroom for all 20 girls. It is very depressing and I can't help but feel l sorry for her. She is such a sweet girl. She gives me overflowing GFE. She would go to the North Pole with me if I asked her. 555.

So Economics makes a huge difference in girl's attitudes and behaviors as far as we are concerned. Thai girls are still great, but they are not desperate like Filipinas are anymore.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1652167]Actually when you are looking at average you are factoring in construction workers and min wage workers as well. Office workers ie those with degrees and skills make far more than they did 10 years ago. Far more. 13 k is what a gal will make working in a so-so restaurant or in a mediocre dept store, 25-30 k is what a just few years experience gets you in a decent (not great) office job. And sorry that is enough to live on. Sex work is not a choice occupation, no matter how much we might want it to be. Give most women the opportunity to earn 30 k at a "legit" job or work as a prostitute for 60-100 k and the vast majority will chose the former. Bottom line is a gal can make a living now at a regular job.

And if she has a Thai boyfriend who is also degreed they can make 60 k plus a month. Guess what? They can afford a condo and a car. Also, their salaries will increase in time. The average salary has increase 50% since 2008!
BTW, have you tried to hire any employees here lately? Well, we have. Want a good degreed employee with a few years experience who speaks "some" English? Good luck getting anyone under 30k. Ain't going to happen.[/QUOTE]Yes, the ultra-low jobs tend to skew the average. I wonder if median income would give a more accurate picture. I recently read the 2012 analysis by Adecco of Thailand and their numbers tend to bear out what you've said.

GF pulls down about 60, plus annual bonus. A couple of years ago a dimwitted boss decided not to pay the programming staff a bonus, or maybe it was a really crappy one, I'm not sure. The entire programming staff (4 or 5 programmers) walked off. Found better jobs quickly. Two years later they still haven't filled all the vacancies, mostly due to dimwit refusing to believe that salaries and work hours are changing. For better, or worse, this ain't the Thailand of the '90's.

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1652188]Yes, the ultra-low jobs tend to skew the average. I wonder if median income would give a more accurate picture. I recently read the 2012 analysis by Adecco of Thailand and their numbers tend to bear out what you've said.
[/QUOTE]You obviously are no mathematician. LOL. The median will be lower than the average. This is because a large portion earn low money and small portion get large money, which may well be several to many times higher than the median.

I certainly accept that it is unlikely that very intelligent highly educated women will be freelancing on the side these days. There were not many of those in the old days either in my experience. Most freelancers I met in the old days were shop assistants, hotel cleaning staff, telephone operators, check out chicks, etc., around that level, where it was impossible to make a decent living. Some girls could survive as Hotel staff because the hotel provided them with food and sleeping quarters, so that their expenses were minimal. They could also get commissions by taking hotel customers to the disco or restaurant etc.

Girls in very well paid jobs are just not relevant, to any changes that might be happening in the sex work scene. Don't get carried away with imagination.

There are a few moderately educated women in the sex scene, but not many. Sometimes its simply because they need to make a lot more than 60K per month, for one reason or another. I know one girl who stated that she needs to make well over 100K per month, so she is willing to do it freelance, even though she has a boyfriend. She is taking certain special studies. Perhaps he cannot afford to keep her for the amount of money she needs. I am sure she is planning for her own business to take over eventually though and quit sex work if her other venture becomes successful enough.

[QUOTE=Breadman;1651857]System restore should solve your problems. Go into the control panel and under system and security look for the option to restore your computer to an earlier time, hopefully something around 1 month back or so is available. If that doesn't work another option is to just reset your computer to factory settings (you'll lose everything).[/QUOTE]That is what I have done the last 3 times, but each time it reappears 2 or 3 days later. Am going to try the suggestions that 2 other posters suggested listed for malware removal.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1652213]You obviously are no mathematician. LOL. The median will be lower than the average. This is because a large portion earn low money and small portion get large money, which may well be several to many times higher than the median.

I certainly accept that it is unlikely that very intelligent highly educated women will be freelancing on the side these days. There were not many of those in the old days either in my experience. Most freelancers I met in the old days were shop assistants, hotel cleaning staff, telephone operators, check out chicks, etc., around that level, where it was impossible to make a decent living. Some girls could survive as Hotel staff because the hotel provided them with food and sleeping quarters, so that their expenses were minimal. They could also get commissions by taking hotel customers to the disco or restaurant etc.

Girls in very well paid jobs are just not relevant, to any changes that might be happening in the sex work scene. Don't get carried away with imagination.

There are a few moderately educated women in the sex scene, but not many. Sometimes its simply because they need to make a lot more than 60K per month, for one reason or another. I know one girl who stated that she needs to make well over 100K per month, so she is willing to do it freelance, even though she has a boyfriend. She is taking certain special studies. Perhaps he cannot afford to keep her for the amount of money she needs. I am sure she is planning for her own business to take over eventually though and quit sex work if her other venture becomes successful enough.[/QUOTE]

The discussion is about FLs in Bangkok. 15 years ago there were lots of "part-timers" who were out to supplement there low paying office jobs. These were degreed gals who were paid very little. That group has all but disappeared. Why? Because they make enough at their office jobs. A great number of the gals I went with 10 years ago fit this description.

Secondly, 15 years ago a gal waiting tables did not make enough money to survive. Now that has changed. I see signs all the time on restaurant doors offering 15 k plus tips. The gals you list: hotel cleaning staff, shop assistants, etc also make far more than they did 10 short years ago.

Needs 100 k a month? No she does not "need" 100 k a month, she wants 100 k a month. Hell, I can live very well off 100 k a month. She is the exception to the rule. As I stated below paid a living wage most women will choose not to work as a prostitute. If they cannot pay their bills or if they are incredibly greedy as the girl you site above, then they will. Few are that greedy. Hence what you see in the FL scene today; the greedy, the not so bright, and the downright lazy.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;1652179]And this is what separates Thai working girls from Philippine working girls. The economic opportunities available for young Filipinas entering the labor force are scant to non existent and the pay, if they are lucky enough to find a job, is usually not enough to live on well. This is one reason why Filipinas, even those with jobs, look at Farangs differently than their Thai sisters do. Go to Makati, Cebu City, AC or Subic and you will feel the difference just walking around in the malls. Filipinas of all backgrounds except the very wealthy want to meet, go out with, and be economically rescued by Westerners. Then take a poor girl from the boonies, knocked up and deserted by her Filipino boyfriend at an early age and you have the source of an endless supply of young, desirable, very friendly bar girls.

My favorite BKK Go Go girl's apartment is very nice and respectable, meaning that while it is a small studio apartment, the building has 24 hour security and is in a middle class neighborhood and is not that different really from what a middle class college coed might live in while away at school in Kansas. In contrast, my favorite Subic bar girl lives in a shitty one room dormitory that she shares with 20 other girls. Each girl has a bunk bed and there is only one common bathroom for all 20 girls. It is very depressing and I can't help but feel l sorry for her. She is such a sweet girl. She gives me overflowing GFE. She would go to the North Pole with me if I asked her. 555.

So Economics makes a huge difference in girl's attitudes and behaviors as far as we are concerned. Thai girls are still great, but they are not desperate like Filipinas are anymore.[/QUOTE]And I for one am glad that they have more opportunity than they did 15 years ago. Not good for us mongers, but damn great for the gals here, who are well, pretty great in my opinion.

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1652188]Yes, the ultra-low jobs tend to skew the average. I wonder if median income would give a more accurate picture. I recently read the 2012 analysis by Adecco of Thailand and their numbers tend to bear out what you've said.

GF pulls down about 60, plus annual bonus. A couple of years ago a dimwitted boss decided not to pay the programming staff a bonus, or maybe it was a really crappy one, I'm not sure. The entire programming staff (4 or 5 programmers) walked off. Found better jobs quickly. Two years later they still haven't filled all the vacancies, mostly due to dimwit refusing to believe that salaries and work hours are changing. For better, or worse, this ain't the Thailand of the '90's.[/QUOTE]Spot on. We have been looking to hire a Thai sales person with some English. Wanting about 3 years or so experience. Going to have to pay a min or 30 k plus commission for anyone half way decent.

Restaurants and bars just can't keep staff. Unemployment is less than 2%. Hell, any Thai can go out and open a food cart with very little hassle and make a living. Now a pretty good living.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1652290]
Hence what you see in the FL scene today; the greedy, the not so bright, and the downright lazy.[/QUOTE]Maybe you expect a girl to work hard in a porno MP, have no choice of customers, and be eager to fucked in the ass 6 times per day, with 50% plus of the customers being psychos? Those freelancers who want it better, choosing customers, don't thrash the pussy and ass, are just greedy, stupid and lazy. Ha Ha. I think you have a bad attitude. Everyone takes the best paid job they can tolerate to do.

The most important thing for a freelance bargirl I know is that she chooses her customers carefully, rarely taking a guy she doesn't know well already. I would describe her as "determined". She makes well over 5 times the money she could otherwise get (possibly 10 times when business is good), yet she doesn't have to do CIM, anal, or be fucked so many times per day, and takes only very nice customers, not the freaky ones that mostly visit porno shops. Perhaps I don't any typical freelancers, but my favourite girls are having freedom to choose. One has super looks and body, the other super performance and like a GF / gik. Happy to repeat them many times. Haven't even tried any new girl recently in Thailand.

When I used to visit Cat at Mango a while back, she explained that over 50% of the customers who were somewhat psycho to her evaluation, and she certainly didn't like them one bit. Maybe this meant just very demanding and wanting to do weird acts. However certainly not what she would call nice guys. I don't know the fine details. It wasn't surprising that she left. I find it much harder to understand how girls manage to work in MPs like this. I expect the quality of customers at a shop like Annies is pretty low too. I can understand some girls working a BJ shop so they can give the poor pussies a rest from the battering.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1652167]Actually when you are looking at average you are factoring in construction workers and min wage workers as well. Office workers ie those with degrees and skills make far more than they did 10 years ago. Far more. 13 k is what a gal will make working in a so-so restaurant or in a mediocre dept store, 25-30 k is what a just few years experience gets you in a decent (not great) office job. And sorry that is enough to live on. Sex work is not a choice occupation, no matter how much we might want it to be. Give most women the opportunity to earn 30 k at a "legit" job or work as a prostitute for 60-100 k and the vast majority will chose the former. Bottom line is a gal can make a living now at a regular job.

And if she has a Thai boyfriend who is also degreed they can make 60 k plus a month. Guess what? They can afford a condo and a car. Also, their salaries will increase in time. The average salary has increase 50% since 2008!
BTW, have you tried to hire any employees here lately? Well, we have. Want a good degreed employee with a few years experience who speaks "some" English? Good luck getting anyone under 30k. Ain't going to happen.[/QUOTE]Yes that is the connection that many guys seem to miss. Money is not always the main motivating factor in deciding what women chose to do. If it was, most American women could probably make a heck of a lot more being escorts than they do working at McDonalds or Walmarts. Being a prostitute here is a demeaning job that marks girls for life. If they don't have to do it, most of them won't. A lot of them have traditionally done it for their families but even that is slowly changing because the rising tide of economics has effected those folks back in Issan as well. So has the near free medical care. They don't all need or want their daughters going south to work on their backs. It's all changing and changing quickly.

Plus the vast vast majority of working girls, in particular freelancers, rarely make anything close to 60 k a month. Most of them are broke most of the time. They get on hot spells where they have a great month of great customers but then they have months where business completely dries up and they are being booted out of their apartments (saving for the bad months not being a concept they seem to understand). Again the proof is in the pudding. In every aspect of this trade that I am familiar with the numbers are decreasing and the quality is deteriorating. The large majority of girls in the gogo's and the freelancers range from plain to ugly. Most have children to support or a drug habit to support. If the theory held that girls are mainly interested in money, then most of the gogo girls would be stunningly beautiful because those are the ones who can truly make a ton of money but they are not. The emergence of the demned Coyote girls is clearly evidence of this. Girls who in the old days would almost certainly have gone with customers are now only willing to dance in revealing clothes because they can easily make 20-30 k a month doing that. Many of these girls could clearly make so much more but chose not to. 20-30 k is enough for their needs.

Finally had the temptation to look at naked girls and went into Crazy House. I would say the line up has declined. Average level of looks is good, but rather few very attractive types, if any. I bought Bo a few drinks. She is semi cute and has natural almost the cups. Not too good for fucking though, so did not bother to BF her. May (ex Long Gun) is a sexy dancer but her pussy previously proved to be rather too tight for me, and not that special on the bed either. So ended up just being a perve for a while, after already getting good sex earlier in the day.

The super hot girls are just not there at the moment. Its not like the days when it first opened and they had only a small number of girls but nearly all hot. Now lots of girls but only a handful are really hot looking and generally not worth BFing. Still full of customers, and a lot of Japanese, but I think this bar is heading toward mediocrity. Fortunately still not much silicone, nose jobs, or fatties.

[QUOTE=DRRonin;1652366]The emergence of the demned Coyote girls is clearly evidence of this. Girls who in the old days would almost certainly have gone with customers are now only willing to dance in revealing clothes because they can easily make 20-30 k a month doing that. Many of these girls could clearly make so much more but chose not to. 20-30 k is enough for their needs.[/QUOTE]Recently a good looking Coyote girl caused me to enter the bar. Maybe it was Cowboy 2. Turns out that the coyote dancing bored me completely, most girls being too lazy to dance properly in this bar, and most of the girls were fairly ordinary, some overweight. The girl I liked was fairly busy. However I could see by her reactions to others that the chemistry would not be there with me, so left fairly quickly. Some of the Coyote girls seem to have a certain arrogance about them. Some just don't have the body or the looks. There is the odd super cute one. Was very tempted by one very cute one outside Midnite last night. However was too close to closing time I guess. Don't really understand how these Coyotes can make money though.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1652375]Don't really understand how these Coyotes can make money though.[/QUOTE]They generally work on salary and drinks. The structures are different in different places. I have heard that they get from 600-1000 baht a day for dancing and then if they get above a certain amount of drinks they get more money. But then Coyote girls seem to come in different flavors as well. Some do go with customers and some do not. From what I see in Soi Cowboy most do not go or if they do the barfine and their price is so high that they are rarely taken out. Most of those cuties that line the soi will just flatly tell you that they don't go. Now in Nana I believe many of them do go but the barfine is usually higher and so is their asking price. It is kind of hard to define what Coyote means exactly these days. Maybe just that they are hired by an outside agency rather than directly by the bar? Also as you mention, the quality of even the Coyote girls is getting worse. I was in Mandarin last week. They have needed to hire a bunch of Coyote girls because they have so few regular dancers and most of them were not at all good looking (a few were). And to our point about fewer and fewer girls wanting to rent out their bodies, the growth of the Coyote industry over the past few years is due to the fact that the bars can not find enough girls who are willing to go with men.

What I don't understand is how the bars can afford to pay the Coyote girls because I have seen very little evidence that they add to the bottom line. No one buys them drinks and most guys who know better avoid those places. A bar like Mandarin (upstairs) has hired about 20 of them but I have seen no increase in customers. Guys don't like Coyote girls. The bars that do well are those without Coyote girls and have a decent line-up. But harder and harder to do apparently.

Mate, I agree with everything you say. However included in your post was this little nugget:

[QUOTE=DRRonin;1652366]most American women could probably make a heck of a lot more being escorts than they do working at McDonalds or Walmarts.[/QUOTE]You clearly have a higher opinion of the average American woman than I do! .

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1652290]15 years ago a gal waiting tables did not make enough money to survive. Now that has changed. I see signs all the time on restaurant doors offering 15 k plus tips. The gals you list: hotel cleaning staff, shop assistants, etc also make far more than they did 10 short years ago.[/QUOTE]Who wants to just "survive"? People want to live, be happy, healthy, comfortable, travel, thrive, and have security for their future decades in this world.

Fifteen thousand baht ($500) isn't going to cut it if you need to take care of your family, to pay off gambling debts, a get out of jail card for a sibling & dozens of other situations that compel a girl to enter the PFP market. If you want quality medical care the free system in Thailand falls short.

I would hope that people make more today than they did 10 years ago. Otherwise their standard of living will have declined as prices ever continue to climb due to worldwide inflation.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1652290]As I stated below paid a living wage most women will choose not to work as a prostitute. [/QUOTE]That is mainly due to religious & cultural brainwashing.

No doubt many nymphos think of it as the ideal profession.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1652290]If they cannot pay their bills or if they are incredibly greedy as the girl you site above, then they will. Few are that greedy. Hence what you see in the FL scene today; the greedy, the not so bright, and the downright lazy.[/QUOTE]It's not greed to take care of your family. In Thailand it is a sacred duty. That's why it's sex industry is top of the world & will likely remain so for many years to come.

[QUOTE=Stykler;1652387]Mate, I agree with everything you say. However included in your post was this little nugget:

You clearly have a higher opinion of the average American woman than I do! .[/QUOTE]Good point! Esp the ones who work at minimum wage jobs but I figure just giving HJ's and BJ's for rock bottom prices would still make you more than at McD's. On the other hand I have seen photos of some USA escort girls going for $300 an hour and I would not pay Sukhumvit street prices for them. Men back home are desperate for any kind of physical contact. 5 min lap dances go for $20-$30 now? Has to be better than making fries all day but not a lot of women are willing to go that route back home and less and less here.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1652360]Maybe you expect a girl to work hard in a porno MP, have no choice of customers, and be eager to fucked in the ass 6 times per day, with 50% plus of the customers being psychos? Those freelancers who want it better, choosing customers, don't thrash the pussy and ass, are just greedy, stupid and lazy. Ha Ha. I think you have a bad attitude. Everyone takes the best paid job they can tolerate to do.

The most important thing for a freelance bargirl I know is that she chooses her customers carefully, rarely taking a guy she doesn't know well already. I would describe her as "determined". She makes well over 5 times the money she could otherwise get (possibly 10 times when business is good), yet she doesn't have to do CIM, anal, or be fucked so many times per day, and takes only very nice customers, not the freaky ones that mostly visit porno shops. Perhaps I don't any typical freelancers, but my favourite girls are having freedom to choose. One has super looks and body, the other super performance and like a GF / gik. Happy to repeat them many times. Haven't even tried any new girl recently in Thailand.

When I used to visit Cat at Mango a while back, she explained that over 50% of the customers who were somewhat psycho to her evaluation, and she certainly didn't like them one bit. Maybe this meant just very demanding and wanting to do weird acts. However certainly not what she would call nice guys. I don't know the fine details. It wasn't surprising that she left. I find it much harder to understand how girls manage to work in MPs like this. I expect the quality of customers at a shop like Annies is pretty low too. I can understand some girls working a BJ shop so they can give the poor pussies a rest from the battering.[/QUOTE]I am kind of baffled at some of your responses. The point is that there are fewer girls in the FL scene. The main reason is that they can make enough to live without resorting to prostitution now. Before they could not. So there is a choice and given that choice most gals will not go into prostitution. Therefore those in the "scene" now are not so bright or just plain lazy.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1652438]That is mainly due to religious & cultural brainwashing.

[/QUOTE]Cultural brainwashing is one of the reasons girls don't want to be prostitutes? That takes the cake for the silliest thing I have heard in years! Thank you. Because there certainly can't be any other reasons why girls would not want to be in a profession where they have to have sex with men they don't know or care for, men who are fat and ugly, where they have to drink to oblivion, where drugs are prevalent and where men abuse them and from time to time cut them into pieces. Yup. Cultural brainwashing. Now I understand.

[QUOTE=DRRonin;1652484]Cultural brainwashing is one of the reasons girls don't want to be prostitutes? That takes the cake for the silliest thing I have heard in years! Thank you. Because there certainly can't be any other reasons why girls would not want to be in a profession where they have to have sex with men they don't know or care for, men who are fat and ugly, where they have to drink to oblivion, where drugs are prevalent and where men abuse them and from time to time cut them into pieces. Yup. Cultural brainwashing. Now I understand.[/QUOTE]In stating what the "main" reasons are, that already implied there are other reasons, if you understand English & have it as a first language. As for the sex trade profession, girls don't have to do any of the things you listed & can still work in PFP.

There are various safeguards a working girl can use to make herself extremely safe from violence. I see TGs using them regularly. No doubt many TGs feel safer with a farang customer than the large percentage of Thai BFs who drink, gamble, cheat or use drugs. Or the taxi driver who takes her home after work. So overall from your response I suspect you, too, have been subject to religious or cultural brainwashing re sex work.

The Thais may be less hung up about PFP & have a higher number of PFP gals per capita than anywhere else in the world. That makes LOS one of the top destinations for this hobby & should continue to do so for many years to come.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1652432]Who wants to just "survive"? People want to live, be happy, healthy, comfortable, travel, thrive, and have security for their future decades in this world.

Fifteen thousand baht ($500) isn't going to cut it if you need to take care of your family, to pay off gambling debts, a get out of jail card for a sibling & dozens of other situations that compel a girl to enter the PFP market. If you want quality medical care the free system in Thailand falls short.

I would hope that people make more today than they did 10 years ago. Otherwise their standard of living will have declined as prices ever continue to climb due to worldwide inflation.[/QUOTE]Dude, all of the above issues are not faced by the majority of Thai women. The majority come from families that actually care about them and want to see them do well. While true with some families in Isaan, it is certainly not the rule and if you think it is then you really need to expose yourself to a wider swath of people in this country.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1652438]That is mainly due to religious & cultural brainwashing.

No doubt many nymphos think of it as the ideal profession.

It's not greed to take care of your family. In Thailand it is a sacred duty. That's why it's sex industry is top of the world & will likely remain so for many years to come.[/QUOTE]Again, most Thai gals I know don't "take care of their families. " You are talking about the poorest class of folk in the country and of course it makes a perfect story to tell the farang.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1652553]Again, most Thai gals I know don't "take care of their families. " You are talking about the poorest class of folk in the country and of course it makes a perfect story to tell the farang.[/QUOTE]Dude,

I know a girl from a soapy whose goal is to send 60,000 baht back home every month and she does manages to send anywhere between 50,000 to 60,000.

I was falling for that cutie pie but distanced myself quickly after knowing this crazy goal.

There are many girls who fall in to this trap because of shitty family.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1652550]Dude, all of the above issues are not faced by the majority of Thai women. The majority come from families that actually care about them and want to see them do well. While true with some families in Isaan, it is certainly not the rule and if you think it is then you really need to expose yourself to a wider swath of people in this country.[/QUOTE]The majority of women in every country will never be involved in PFP, especially other countries not named Thailand. The poverty of LOS & its long local history of acceptance of the business is not going to change in our generation if ever. In fact the poverty may get much worse along with political, economic, natural & tourism related disasters that never seem to end. Add to that the Thais being less hung up about PFP & having a higher number of PFP gals per capita than anywhere else in the world & it will probably be a prime hobbying destination for decades to come.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1652553]Again, most Thai gals I know don't "take care of their families. " You are talking about the poorest class of folk in the country and of course it makes a perfect story to tell the farang.[/QUOTE]Again, most girls in any country will never enter PFP. Yet LOS is much more family oriented than Western countries which put value in individualism rather than face. Hence the obligation to look after your own should the need arise & you are able bodied with farang ATMs widely available for large withdrawals. Better yet hook the cash machines into a permanent arrangement re sponsorship etc. The rate at which PFP TGs accomplish this should give you pause to reconsider your comments as to how bright these girls are relative to their farang targets.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1652553]Again, most Thai gals I know don't "take care of their families. " You are talking about the poorest class of folk in the country and of course it makes a perfect story to tell the farang.[/QUOTE]You are right! The majority of the girls we are here or come for to dip our sticks is from the poorest class of Thais! In General, many I have met and know come from up north. No matter who I meet or where I go the story seem to be the same? Maybe as noted it is a line they use who really knows? All have babies at a early age and guy splits girls come to work in BKK or Pattaya. Parents either know or don't know or just turn their heads as long as the money keeps rolling in each month. Majority leave their babies behind for the parents or family member to take care. What I have found is many whether they are parents, Aunts, sister, who end up taking care of the child the child becomes attached to that family member as if they are the actual parents? Some if not many uses this as a form of blackmail and ask for more and more each month and it gets much worse if they find out she has a falang boyfriend.

The culture really has done a number on them making them the women think they have to blunt the responsibility while the men just sit and run like cowards. The standard and expectation for the men is less just as the standard for a Thai boyfriend is different than for a falang boyfriend.

Every girl I know working is taking care of their family one way or another. One girl BF driving drunk kills someone, judgement 300,000 baht, she working to pay it off, a year later the guy butterfly's take off. One girl brother gets caught selling drugs, goes to jail, she mortgage the house to pay the guards to protect him while in prison because the mother begs and put pressure on her yet there is a older and younger brother who have become free loaders while she lays on her back spreading her legs each night. One girl tells me she has to take care of her son, her little sister, little brother while the parents call each month for rent and the mother is the worse telling her when are you going to get a falang boyfriend so I can have a car, house, and the good life like other working girls I hear about in Isaan? This one girl one night was somewhat so drunk that the pressure was so great on her each month she wanted to kill herself that she was just so tired? Younger brother got young girl pregnant now girl parents blackmails her threatening to jail her son unless you pays 200,000 baht? story after story working girl taking care of family!

You are lucky you don't know any.

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;1652692]You are right! The majority of the girls we are here or come for to dip our sticks is from the poorest class of Thais! In General, many I have met and know come from up north. No matter who I meet or where I go the story seem to be the same? Maybe as noted it is a line they use who really knows? All have babies at a early age and guy splits girls come to work in BKK or Pattaya. Parents either know or don't know or just turn their heads as long as the money keeps rolling in each month. Majority leave their babies behind for the parents or family member to take care. What I have found is many whether they are parents, Aunts, sister, who end up taking care of the child the child becomes attached to that family member as if they are the actual parents? Some if not many uses this as a form of blackmail and ask for more and more each month and it gets much worse if they find out she has a falang boyfriend.

The culture really has done a number on them making them the women think they have to blunt the responsibility while the men just sit and run like cowards. The standard and expectation for the men is less just as the standard for a Thai boyfriend is different than for a falang boyfriend.

Every girl I know working is taking care of their family one way or another. One girl BF driving drunk kills someone, judgement 300,000 baht, she working to pay it off, a year later the guy butterfly's take off. One girl brother gets caught selling drugs, goes to jail, she mortgage the house to pay the guards to protect him while in prison because the mother begs and put pressure on her yet there is a older and younger brother who have become free loaders while she lays on her back spreading her legs each night. One girl tells me she has to take care of her son, her little sister, little brother while the parents call each month for rent and the mother is the worse telling her when are you going to get a falang boyfriend so I can have a car, house, and the good life like other working girls I hear about in Isaan? This one girl one night was somewhat so drunk that the pressure was so great on her each month she wanted to kill herself that she was just so tired? Younger brother got young girl pregnant now girl parents blackmails her threatening to jail her son unless you pays 200,000 baht? story after story working girl taking care of family!

You are lucky you don't know any.[/QUOTE]I have known quite a few. There are huge cultural issues in Isaan. But contrast that with the rest of the country. Thailand has more female CEOs than any other nation. Women have a lot of power in this country and are getting more by the day, and really, that is not a bad thing.

[QUOTE=DwayneJohnson;1652579]Dude,

I know a girl from a soapy whose goal is to send 60000 baht back home every month and she does manages to send anywhere between 50000 to 60000.

I was falling for that cutie pie but distanced myself quickly after knowing this crazy goal.

There are many girls who fall in to this trap because of shitty family.[/QUOTE]The majority of women are not in the P4 P industry. The majority that are, well, they are not the creme de la creme of women in Thailand.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1652606]The majority of women in every country will never be involved in PFP, especially other countries not named Thailand. The poverty of LOS & its long local history of acceptance of the business is not going to change in our generation if ever. In fact the poverty may get much worse along with political, economic, natural & tourism related disasters that never seem to end. Add to that the Thais being less hung up about PFP & having a higher number of PFP gals per capita than anywhere else in the world & it will probably be a prime hobbying destination for decades to come.

Again, most girls in any country will never enter PFP. Yet LOS is much more family oriented than Western countries which put value in individualism rather than face. Hence the obligation to look after your own should the need arise & you are able bodied with farang ATMs widely available for large withdrawals. Better yet hook the cash machines into a permanent arrangement re sponsorship etc. The rate at which PFP TGs accomplish this should give you pause to reconsider your comments as to how bright these girls are relative to their farang targets.[/QUOTE]Does not give me pause at all. It is not a comment on farangs, it is a comment on the gals. 50 k 100 k, whatever. How many of these gals have you known that have actually taken this money and really done something with it? I don't mean build a house or send it to their parasitic families. Very few. And now fewer and fewer.

The business plan is as you stated above. Find man, take money. But you know what? Most of the time that does not work out so well for them and they are back out there a year, two, five, or ten later. Most of those arrangements are far from "permanent. " And they are completely at the whim of the guy they are with.

Family oriented? I would say well on the surface, but how family oriented is it when the moms and pops send their young daughters off to the P4 P industry at a young age?

If you would do a little research you would also find that Thailand does not have the most P4 P girls per capita.

During my tenure here I have seen disaster after disaster. SARS, the tsunami, the flood, and numerous political upheavals. Each time I think the place will go in the crapper. And it doesn't. It keeps developing and moving on.

But this time you may be right. That teflon might have worn off. We shall have to see. But I would not ever bet against the Thai people.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1652550]Dude, all of the above issues are not faced by the majority of Thai women. The majority come from families that actually care about them and want to see them do well. While true with some families in Isaan, it is certainly not the rule and if you think it is then you really need to expose yourself to a wider swath of people in this country.[/QUOTE]Sorry I have to disagree with you about this? And I have the greatest respect for your point of view but here is how I see it from my experience and I recently had this discussion on another board with a foreigner a Lawyer who comes to Bangkok to work a month at a time? As far as I know and you might be the one to educate me but as far as I know Bangkok the capital is the only city in Thailand of it's kind? Bangkok as I know it is just a minority compare to the rest of the country. When you talk about the standard of living etc. It is a exception to the rule because the rest of the country does not provide the same wages or the type of jobs Bangkok offers?

They all care about their children but the poor seem to care in a different way? Outside of Bangkok is where the masses live Bangkok can only provide so many jobs for the country and Bangkok school system with their many International schools is way different the majority of the country too? The public school system is a sham and this point of view comes from their own scholars and has been recently written about in the Bangkok Post. Based on that although the numbers have decline there will always be a flow of P4 P because the masses are outside of Bangkok. This is a country of have and have nots and the majority are Nots!

I recently had a discussion in Pattaya with a Lawyer from England who was visiting Pattaya with his Thai lawyer co-worker pretty much about what we are discussing here who I met online and agree to meet him. He said after hearing what I had to say should look for a better class of Thais? I was thinking to myself this sounds like it is coming from two guys who think their shit doesn't stink? The Thai guy disagree with much of what I had to say. He said pretty much what you said and the Brit agree. The Thai guy came from a pretty good family with money and the Brit comes pretty much like he was on holiday see what the Thai guy takes him to see in my book the good part of Thailand. I said to the both of them have you guys ever slept in a room without A/C see, can you squak to take a shit like a real Thai, have you ever been up country and eaten with a family that lives in on a farm bugs all over your food and mosquitoes everywhere. The Thai guy didn't answer which was a no to me? The Brit of course no he saw only what the co-workers wanted him to see which was the good life of Thailand while he visited.

I basically told both of them if anyone needed to find a wider swath of people it was them! To the Thai guy I might be more Thai than you? The standard in Bangkok and people to me at least are not the rule of thumb?

[QUOTE=DwayneJohnson;1652579]Dude,

I know a girl from a soapy whose goal is to send 60000 baht back home every month and she does manages to send anywhere between 50000 to 60000.

I was falling for that cutie pie but distanced myself quickly after knowing this crazy goal.

There are many girls who fall in to this trap because of shitty family.[/QUOTE]Let's see. Assuming the goal is 55000 and she works 26 days in the month, and her own expenses are 10000 per month, she'll need to score 2500 per day. Given soapies in the main split the takings 50:50, and the prices range from 1800 to 5000, but assuming your girl is in the higher category, say 4000, since otherwise you would not have fall for her, she only need to do 1.25 jobs on average per day, or 5 jobs in 4 days. Very do-able.

Toumai

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1652696]I have known quite a few. There are huge cultural issues in Isaan. But contrast that with the rest of the country. Thailand has more female CEOs than any other nation. Women have a lot of power in this country and are getting more by the day, and really, that is not a bad thing.[/QUOTE]I love women in charge. That is why for the hell of it, if she makes it that far I will throw my vote for her Hillary Baby! Sure more CEO that any other nation but take those CEO and their power and money there is no comparison to those in the West? Are we talking and comparing Apple to Oranges? Just like Yingluck she was just a paper Tiger for the Brother all Smoke and mirror. Which one listed on the F-500?

Sure women have lots of power but if they are so powerful especially in government why is there a law on the books that prevent dead beat Thais from not paying for child support not enforced. If so powerful change it but they can't! In Bangkok once went to the Police HQ, saw for the first time many Thai police women but none out on the streets just doing desk work? The men run this country will continue they still have the mentality that women will never be equal!

Goatscrot, I disagree only because we experience and seen different things but I respect and very interested in your point of view it is a education that there is another side.

I know one TG who is quite successful with farangs.

Her service level is tops and over the years she was.

Able to buy a house for her mom and son upcountry.

Then her mom gambled away the home in less than.

A month. This poor girl now has to do it all over again.

But she is 32 now and may not be able to repeat.

So sad the tight bonds of family combined with many.

In the family drunk, drugged, lazy, or foolish.

And the daughters have to pay for it.

A very sad situation for so many of these sweet girls.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1652518]In stating what the "main" reasons are, that already implied there are other reasons, if you understand English & have it as a first language. As for the sex trade profession, girls don't have to do any of the things you listed & can still work in PFP.

There are various safeguards a working girl can use to make herself extremely safe from violence. I see TGs using them regularly. No doubt many TGs feel safer with a farang customer than the large percentage of Thai BFs who drink, gamble, cheat or use drugs. Or the taxi driver who takes her home after work. So overall from your response I suspect you, too, have been subject to religious or cultural brainwashing re sex work.

The Thais may be less hung up about PFP & have a higher number of PFP gals per capita than anywhere else in the world. That makes LOS one of the top destinations for this hobby & should continue to do so for many years to come.[/QUOTE]What weird Disney world are you living in? Various safeguards to make herself extremely safe from violence? Please tell me what a poor uneducated girl from a completely different culture is suppose to do in order to know whether that guy who just asked the mamasan to barfine her is a potential danger? Or a guy who walks up to her on the street and says "how much for short time?" Does she do a quick physiological examination to size him up. Does she run an internet background check on him? Does she refuse to go with him until he provides her with references from previous bar girls he has been out with? Every time a girl goes with a customer that she doesn't know she is running a potential risk and they know this. I can't think of any girl that I have gotten to know really well who hasn't told me of a few bad experiences with customers that entailed violence or threatened violence. I really get this feeling from comments that you make that you think these girls are living a Mary Poppins existence. They are not. It is full of danger, full of heartbreak, full of loneliness. Check around and see how many of these girls have scars on their wrists from razor cutting. Or are on Yabba to get through the night.

Most of these girls form deep friendships with their co-workers. This is their support system. It is what gets them through the tough times. But it comes at a price because it inevitably leads to lots of drinking and very often drugs. Those two substances and shared experiences bind a lot of these girls together for life. Obviously the bar system in place that incentivizes girls to drink, ie drink quotas, leads to even more drinking on the parts of the girls. So to say that girls should just safeguard themselves and stay away from drinking and drugs and bad customers is incredibly nave. I understand that most customers don't want to know any of this in the same way we don't want to know how our food ends up on our plate. We want a friendly smile, a little chatter and some fun in the room and that is fine. You pay your money and you should get your what you want like with any other commodity. When we don't we get pissed off and complain.

As to my English. I am sure it could be better but let me tell you more clearly why I was so offended by your statement. The term "brainwashing" is obviously meant in a pejorative sense. So to state that the main reason girls in Thailand don't want to become prostitutes is due to religious and cultural brainwashing is to infer that this is a bad thing. No doubt you would prefer a society where prostituting yourself is viewed as a positive moral self-enhancing activity. Maybe a country where every girl should go through a tour of duty as a prostitute for a few years. And like it.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1652699]Family oriented? I would say well on the surface, but how family oriented is it when the moms and pops send their young daughters off to the P4 P industry at a young age?[/QUOTE]Exactly 100 percent of the PFP TGs who have spoken to me on the subject of supporting their family say they send them money. The topic comes up quite frequently with many of them. OTOH I've never had a Western SP once say such a thing. So Thai SP's seem much more family dedicated. It appears to be constantly on their minds & what motivates them. Even if they marry a farang, their Thai family is still number one.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1652699]If you would do a little research you would also find that Thailand does not have the most P4 P girls per capita.[/QUOTE]That would be pointless since the estimated numbers vary for Thai prostitutes. The country is well known as the brothel of the world. Whether LOS is number one or number two would not change my point, either, that PFP has a long & bright future in the Kingdom. So the outlook is excellent for those who consider it their go to place to visit or live.

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;1652701]Sorry I have to disagree with you about this? And I have the greatest respect for your point of view but here is how I see it from my experience and I recently had this discussion on another board with a foreigner a Lawyer who comes to Bangkok to work a month at a time? As far as I know and you might be the one to educate me but as far as I know Bangkok the capital is the only city in Thailand of it's kind? Bangkok as I know it is just a minority compare to the rest of the country. When you talk about the standard of living etc. It is a exception to the rule because the rest of the country does not provide the same wages or the type of jobs Bangkok offers?

They all care about their children but the poor seem to care in a different way? Outside of Bangkok is where the masses live Bangkok can only provide so many jobs for the country and Bangkok school system with their many International schools is way different the majority of the country too? The public school system is a sham and this point of view comes from their own scholars and has been recently written about in the Bangkok Post. Based on that although the numbers have decline there will always be a flow of P4 P because the masses are outside of Bangkok. This is a country of have and have nots and the majority are Nots!

I recently had a discussion in Pattaya with a Lawyer from England who was visiting Pattaya with his Thai lawyer co-worker pretty much about what we are discussing here who I met online and agree to meet him. He said after hearing what I had to say should look for a better class of Thais? I was thinking to myself this sounds like it is coming from two guys who think their shit doesn't stink? The Thai guy disagree with much of what I had to say. He said pretty much what you said and the Brit agree. The Thai guy came from a pretty good family with money and the Brit comes pretty much like he was on holiday see what the Thai guy takes him to see in my book the good part of Thailand. I said to the both of them have you guys ever slept in a room without A/C see, can you squak to take a shit like a real Thai, have you ever been up country and eaten with a family that lives in on a farm bugs all over your food and mosquitoes everywhere. The Thai guy didn't answer which was a no to me? The Brit of course no he saw only what the co-workers wanted him to see which was the good life of Thailand while he visited.

I basically told both of them if anyone needed to find a wider swath of people it was them! To the Thai guy I might be more Thai than you? The standard in Bangkok and people to me at least are not the rule of thumb?[/QUOTE]Thanks for the kind words!

I would say Isaan is the exception. The NE has its own culture, as does the and, S, and Center.

You see very few working girls from the South. Why not? Because the families do all they can to see that there kiddos get an education. It is becoming quite similar in the NE The model that you see and hear about in the gogos is predominately associated with the NE. I would agree 100% that there is a lot of that behavior there.

Also when it comes to "sin sot," or bride price. In most places in the country the money is put away for the gal in case there is a problem with the marriage or is returned to the couple after the wedding. It is pretty much only among the poor where it is squandered by the bride's family.

Median income has doubled here in the last 10 years. Doubled. That is a big increase and changes have occurred because of it.

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;1652713]I love women in charge. That is why for the hell of it, if she makes it that far I will throw my vote for her Hillary Baby! Sure more CEO that any other nation but take those CEO and their power and money there is no comparison to those in the West? Are we talking and comparing Apple to Oranges? Just like Yingluck she was just a paper Tiger for the Brother all Smoke and mirror. Which one listed on the F-500?

Sure women have lots of power but if they are so powerful especially in government why is there a law on the books that prevent dead beat Thais from not paying for child support not enforced. If so powerful change it but they can't! In Bangkok once went to the Police HQ, saw for the first time many Thai police women but none out on the streets just doing desk work? The men run this country will continue they still have the mentality that women will never be equal!

Goatscrot, I disagree only because we experience and seen different things but I respect and very interested in your point of view it is a education that there is another side.[/QUOTE]Ever see who controls the purse strings in a Chinese family? The political arena will be the last to change, but it will. And methinks those changes are not that far off. As I stated there are more women CEOs here than in any other country. Women outnumber men in Unis as well. The men have a very rude awakening coming.

And I like them in charge as well!

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1652799]Ever see who controls the purse strings in a Chinese family? The political arena will be the last to change, but it will. And methinks those changes are not that far off. As I stated there are more women CEOs here than in any other country. Women outnumber men in Unis as well. The men have a very rude awakening coming.

And I like them in charge as well![/QUOTE]Sure I see I'm Chinese! But as a Chinese I also know that the man gives them this responsibility as it was done in my family but then the men goes out to do their thing? The greatest example I know while growing up is my family in Hong Kong, while the women took care of the household and kids and finances for the home everyone of my cousins had mistresses! To me it doesn't matter how many women outnumber the men in Thailand they still do not control what is necessary to change the system. For every CEO women that is married the man most likely has even more and certain more power! Why would a CEO women want a hamburger for a husband isn't it majority of the time about reaching higher? I make a uneducated guess that these CEO women come from family of have's, how many of them come from the rags to riches like in countries like for example USA The have's continue to have and the have not's continue to have not!

I just read a article on Thaivisa saying that in the Emerging countries Thailand has slipped and now there are only 3 Universities on the list when they use to be five?

Sure we talk about changes but like I said the mass population is outside of Bangkok, and although less P4 P as you guys talk about in Bangkok, I believe it has just gone underground? In Pattaya, regardless of how much is spoken about quality it seems the little head is doing the talking because how does looks have anything to do with whether the economy is doing better? So only pretty young girls are benefiting from the better economy so they do not have to sell their bodies? This is the same nonsense I hear that all the pretty girls are in Bangkok? Like Pattaya has a lock on ugly? Maybe you guys who holiday here think this but living here there is a constant flow of young and old girls coming never a shortage!

The education system are light years away from Korea, Japan, and even China I've been to all three when their economy was like Thailand but they change it and now the women are just like the one's in the USA Take no shit and know you want a divorce expect to get taken to the cleaners until that happens in Thailand women no matter how many women CEO will be second class to the men. This point I make is exactly why Koreans and Japanese come to Thailand and spend what they want because like us they want the GFE, they want to be in control and not controlled! We in the West do it too with the exception we want to pay less for it!

My cousins use to tell me you come to Hong Kong each summer to visit have fun we will show and take you to get your rocks off but do not get hitch to a Hong Kong girl because you will get a ear full at home just like the Chinese girls will give you in the USA Thai and Asian men are all alike in SEA? Thailand although changing more so in Bangkok it is not changing fast enough outside and personally it will not happen in my life time but I do expect prices will rise it never stays the same!

[QUOTE=Carpediemyes;1652768]I know one TG who is quite successful with farangs.

Then her mom gambled away the home in less than. [/QUOTE]So sad but true, and not just in Thailand. I saw a program a few months ago about Filipino workers who work overseas, not just in the P4 P industry but as singers, on ship, etc. One girl had been working as a singer for 8 years, sending back money for here future. When she returned home she found that her family had sold her car and gambled / drunk the rest of her money. She was worse off than when she left.

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;1652826]Sure I see I'm Chinese! But as a Chinese I also know that the man gives them this responsibility as it was done in my family but then the men goes out to do their thing? The greatest example I know while growing up is my family in Hong Kong, while the women took care of the household and kids and finances for the home everyone of my cousins had mistresses! To me it doesn't matter how many women outnumber the men in Thailand they still do not control what is necessary to change the system. For every CEO women that is married the man most likely has even more and certain more power! Why would a CEO women want a hamburger for a husband isn't it majority of the time about reaching higher? I make a uneducated guess that these CEO women come from family of have's, how many of them come from the rags to riches like in countries like for example USA The have's continue to have and the have not's continue to have not!

I just read a article on Thaivisa saying that in the Emerging countries Thailand has slipped and now there are only 3 Universities on the list when they use to be five?

Sure we talk about changes but like I said the mass population is outside of Bangkok, and although less P4 P as you guys talk about in Bangkok, I believe it has just gone underground? In Pattaya, regardless of how much is spoken about quality it seems the little head is doing the talking because how does looks have anything to do with whether the economy is doing better? So only pretty young girls are benefiting from the better economy so they do not have to sell their bodies? This is the same nonsense I hear that all the pretty girls are in Bangkok? Like Pattaya has a lock on ugly? Maybe you guys who holiday here think this but living here there is a constant flow of young and old girls coming never a shortage!

The education system are light years away from Korea, Japan, and even China I've been to all three when their economy was like Thailand but they change it and now the women are just like the one's in the USA Take no shit and know you want a divorce expect to get taken to the cleaners until that happens in Thailand women no matter how many women CEO will be second class to the men. This point I make is exactly why Koreans and Japanese come to Thailand and spend what they want because like us they want the GFE, they want to be in control and not controlled! We in the West do it too with the exception we want to pay less for it!

My cousins use to tell me you come to Hong Kong each summer to visit have fun we will show and take you to get your rocks off but do not get hitch to a Hong Kong girl because you will get a ear full at home just like the Chinese girls will give you in the USA Thai and Asian men are all alike in SEA? Thailand although changing more so in Bangkok it is not changing fast enough outside and personally it will not happen in my life time but I do expect prices will rise it never stays the same![/QUOTE]I would imagine they do all come from not just the "haves," but the mega haves! True on that.

I also agree that in many ways Thailand risks being trounced by its neighbors if it does not get it together soon. Neighboring nations are improving their educational system and making it easier for foreign business. Here it is the opposite. Back to indoctrination and tightening the Foreign Business Act.

I do think that Thai women are able to assume positions of power and still keep their femininity. In most nations that is not the case.

[QUOTE=DRRonin;1652776]Various safeguards to make herself extremely safe from violence? Please tell me what a poor uneducated girl from a completely different culture is suppose to do in order to know whether that guy who just asked the mamasan to barfine her is a potential danger? Or a guy who walks up to her on the street and says "how much for short time?" Does she do a quick physiological examination to size him up. Does she run an internet background check on him? Does she refuse to go with him until he provides her with references from previous bar girls he has been out with? Every time a girl goes with a customer that she doesn't know she is running a potential risk and they know this. I can't think of any girl that I have gotten to know really well who hasn't told me of a few bad experiences with customers that entailed violence or threatened violence.[/QUOTE]The safeguards I referred to have very little if anything to do with evaluating the customer as a potential threat, though girls can avoid obvious bad apples like drunks, drug users, the foul mouthed, & etc with ease. If you were at all familiar with the business you would know what these safeguards are.

In hundreds of sessions I've never heard of a girl telling me about any violence from a Western customer. Though quite a few have spoken of TGs who married them. At a much higher rate the violence comes from Thai BFs and motorbike accidents. It's no wonder so many TGs prefer farang company over Thais. As a group we treat them to a much better time, don't demand unsafe sex & actually give them money rather than taking it away, LOL.

These TGs are smarter & happier than Western females who keep giving it up for nothing. Unlike feminists back in farangland they know how to treat a guy, so it works out beautifully for both parties.

"Every time a girl goes with a customer that she doesn't know she is running a potential risk and they know this. ".

I'm sure she knows there is a risk riding on a motorbike or taking a Thai BF too. I've often seen their scars that prove it. If you join the army or police force for very low pay there is potential danger too. There are risks in many types of jobs.

Planning a trip to Bangkok by end of this month. Purely for mongering. I shall be staying in Sukhumvit area within walking distance from Nana Plaza. Can anyone guide me to the top class gogo bars around the area? I am not much interested in ladyboys but don't mind a one off experience. Also can someone tell me the name of place for soapy massage other than Annies, where you get to choose pretty young girls?

Cheers. MG.

[QUOTE=MumbaiGuy;1652860]Planning a trip to Bangkok by end of this month. Purely for mongering. I shall be staying in Sukhumvit area within walking distance from Nana Plaza. Can anyone guide me to the top class gogo bars around the area? I am not much interested in ladyboys but don't mind a one off experience. Also can someone tell me the name of place for soapy massage other than Annies, where you get to choose pretty young girls?

Cheers. MG.[/QUOTE]Nataree, Poseidon, Emmanuel. Loads of soapy's in Huai Khwang.

[QUOTE=DwayneJohnson;1652579]Dude,

I know a girl from a soapy whose goal is to send 60000 baht back home every month and she does manages to send anywhere between 50000 to 60000.

I was falling for that cutie pie but distanced myself quickly after knowing this crazy goal.

There are many girls who fall in to this trap because of shitty family.[/QUOTE]Must admit I was going into the same lane.

She looked like a great Catch but after finding out she needed 50000 Baht for family every month I pulled away.

She even pay for the family's car that she did buy for them and she don't even know how to drive. Her family can drive a very beautiful new car now.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1652699]If you would do a little research you would also find that Thailand does not have the most P4 P girls per capita.[/QUOTE]This is true, but Thailand is unique in that it used to have high amounts of open-ended prostitution, not just transactional prostitution which is common all over the world.

In the open-ended arrangement, the working girls going with men while looking for sponsors, and engaging in relationships of highly variable duration (from a day to years), financial and emotional components. The more common, transactional model is simply turning tricks, and while service quality might range from an unfriendly quickie to a spectacular oily (Tulip) session, the format and benefits (for both sides) are fixed.

There is an ancient (mid 1990's), but solid analysis of the two: [URL]http://goo.gl/TYa5ls[/URL].

While other countries might have more prostitutes per capita, Thailand is unique in that it had the vast open-ended scene (in addition to The Philippines, perhaps), but these days it's disappearing, girls find it more profitable to turn over several short-times per night than to engage in a long-time, hoping to snatch some more extensive and longer lasting benefits.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;1652898]This is true, but Thailand is unique in that it used to have high amounts of open-ended prostitution, not just transactional prostitution which is common all over the world.

In the open-ended arrangement, the working girls going with men while looking for sponsors, and engaging in relationships of highly variable duration (from a day to years), financial and emotional components. The more common, transactional model is simply turning tricks, and while service quality might range from an unfriendly quickie to a spectacular oily (Tulip) session, the format and benefits (for both sides) are fixed.

There is an ancient (mid 1990's), but solid analysis of the two: [URL]http://goo.gl/TYa5ls[/URL].

While other countries might have more prostitutes per capita, Thailand is unique in that it had the vast open-ended scene (in addition to The Philippines, perhaps), but these days it's disappearing, girls find it more profitable to turn over several short-times per night than to engage in a long-time, hoping to snatch some more extensive and longer lasting benefits.[/QUOTE]You just described a marriage.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1652834]I would imagine they do all come from not just the "haves," but the mega haves! True on that.

I also agree that in many ways Thailand risks being trounced by its neighbors if it does not get it together soon. Neighboring nations are improving their educational system and making it easier for foreign business. Here it is the opposite. Back to indoctrination and tightening the Foreign Business Act.

I do think that Thai women are able to assume positions of power and still keep their femininity. In most nations that is not the case.[/QUOTE]When Yickluck was in power I did have visions of her being in a nice Victoria Secret white lace bra and panties!

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;1653079]When Yickluck was in power I did have visions of her being in a nice Victoria Secret white lace bra and panties![/QUOTE]She was pretty damn hot when she was younger!

[QUOTE=Carpediemyes;1652768]I know one TG who is quite successful with farangs.

Her service level is tops and over the years she was.

Able to buy a house for her mom and son upcountry.

Then her mom gambled away the home in less than.

A month. This poor girl now has to do it all over again.

But she is 32 now and may not be able to repeat.

So sad the tight bonds of family combined with many.

In the family drunk, drugged, lazy, or foolish.

And the daughters have to pay for it.

A very sad situation for so many of these sweet girls.[/QUOTE]I wonder what a family with a low income in a Western country would do if one (or more) of their daughters sends them shit loads of money every month. Pretty much the same I'm afraid.

Money corrupts and makes greedy, all over the world. People are basically the same ass holes everywhere.

[QUOTE=MumbaiGuy;1652860]Planning a trip to Bangkok by end of this month. Purely for mongering. I shall be staying in Sukhumvit area within walking distance from Nana Plaza. Can anyone guide me to the top class gogo bars around the area? I am not much interested in ladyboys but don't mind a one off experience. Also can someone tell me the name of place for soapy massage other than Annies, where you get to choose pretty young girls?

Cheers. MG.[/QUOTE]Mate, just read through last 1 or 2 month pages and you will have all the info you need.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1653086]She was pretty damn hot when she was younger![/QUOTE]Yea! The impression I have without any damn experience women with power might be real nasty good in bed?

[QUOTE=Mogwai;1653104]I wonder what a family with a low income in a Western country would do if one (or more) of their daughters sends them shit loads of money every month. Pretty much the same I'm afraid.

Money corrupts and makes greedy, all over the world. People are basically the same ass holes everywhere.[/QUOTE]Just run through some of the history of those who have won the lottery in the USA And you will have your answer. Money does corrupt and makes people greedy! In Thailand, it is even more so because of how poor they are with no light at the other end of the tunnel in their life. Take how they are raise in their culture and how so many like to show off as soon as they get a little money giving people they use to know " head toe " as if their shit no longer stinks is very common from what I've seen and heard.

I would not go as far as calling people ass-so it is just human nature and if you do not have a good head on your shoulders or demand something in return for helping people out it could be a disaster?

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;1652898]This is true, but Thailand is unique [/QUOTE]I've read a lot on the subject & never seen any proof that Thailand doesn't have the largest number of sex workers per capita. Just some baseless opinions. I'd suggest this is especially true as regards TGs who cater to the foreign market. Unlike most other places, in LOS there is a huge number of non females in the business. Also many thousands of TGs in the business work in countries around the globe.

Unlike places like Singapore & Germany, where the vast majority are foreign prostitutes, those of Thailand are almost all locals. Which is what my original point was about, not all hookers (foreign & local):

"Add to that the Thais being less hung up about PFP & having a higher number of PFP gals per capita than anywhere else in the world & it will probably be a prime hobbying destination for decades to come. "

We do have the General Thread, but seems people want to use the Bangkok Thread. Perhaps an Expats thread would be good rather than an Expats forum (not to be used).

Meanwhile, was interesting that the whole of cowboy came to a standstill last night around 8 PM with all the staff outside with yellow tee-shirts and holding candles in tribute for the King's birthday. Business as usual started a bit later. I had already done my ST with bargirl at 6:30. She regularly manages 3 or 4 STs per night and is very hard worker making very big money. Long time girl, tall skinny Bo who loves to do lesbian as well as guys, has returned to Suzi Wong. A true bi-sexual. When Knot comes back next week, I will take Bo and Knot for "double trouble". Bo works very well with most girls. Dtom with very tight pussy also is very good for doubles. I only take girls with nice shaped asses. That doesn't leave so many. Many girls did not work for Kings birthday.

Had a look in Doll House other day after renovation. Pretty much the same, with same old girls. A couple of new moderately pretty ones. Nothing that interesting.

Also ventured into Midnite Coyote bar, because one girl spotted from outside was hot. Inside just a few customers. Mostly Japanese. The girl I liked made a bee-line for a Japanese guy. I was left with a choice of lots of ordinary looking girls, not improved by having bra and shorts on. The Coyote dancing was not that professional and quite boring. The bar had really only 2 or 3 special lookers to my fussy taste. O.K. a bit better than SW girls but clothed. Had one drink and left. Dull dull dull! I would much rather be looking at naked girls in Crazy House. Even though line up standard in CH has dropped a little, its still just as good or better than Midnite coyote girl line up.
Maybe there is some reason a Japanese guy likes the Coyote place when he gets so much attention due to shortage of customers. Meanwhile CH is packed.

When I walked past CH one of the pretty slim girls was outside in plain clothes. She gets barfined quickly and has a lot of Japanese regulars and pre bookings. Hardly ever seen her sit with Farangs. Don't know if she fucks good or just is awfully cute. Problem in CH is, I only know one girl there that is a passionate fuck. So its not the best place to BF anyone. The best stunner I had there is gone long time now.

Had some fun at Hot Lips bar in Nana on Thursday. Noi number 12 is a girl I know for long time. Looking very good with very slim figure and fab ass. Has a tight pussy that squeezes / massages your dick. Highly recommended, BBBJ not very deep but soft okay The bar is about to change names possibly to Candyland 2. Hardly any customers. My other favourite girl there, Mint, seems to have gone. Will have to ring to see if she still works somewhere or maybe has BF.

Been in Thailand a week now, but have not tried even one new girl. Stuck on my regulars. One is so good, I hope to be still doing her in 10 years time. Just sends me to heaven. May try to take her LT on several nights. She cannot ever bore me. Even likes to wake up due to being molested while sleeping. LOL. Total GFE and can be PSE as well. My other regulars are left with only irregular chances.

[QUOTE=DRRonin;1652776]I really get this feeling from comments that you make that you think these girls are living a Mary Poppins existence. They are not. It is full of danger, full of heartbreak, full of loneliness. [/QUOTE]This fear mongering is an example of the societal brainwashing I was referring to.

[QUOTE=DRRonin;1652776]Most of these girls form deep friendships with their co-workers. This is their support system. It is what gets them through the tough times. But it comes at a price because it inevitably leads to lots of drinking and very often drugs. [/QUOTE]In hundreds of meetings with such girls I'd estimate around one percent showed any signs of being under the influence of alcohol or drugs. These were almost all ladies of the street.

[QUOTE=DRRonin;1652776]No doubt you would prefer a society where prostituting yourself is viewed as a positive moral self-enhancing activity. [/QUOTE]No, I would prefer that society is not brainwashed into thinking sex work is immoral. I'd prefer that the fear mongering, lies & Hitler like propaganda regarding such a professional career would cease.

[QUOTE=DRRonin;1652776]Maybe a country where every girl should go through a tour of duty as a prostitute for a few years. And like it.[/QUOTE]Great idea. Though I wouldn't make it mandatory. It could be offered as a course in universities or with training as a valid profession in colleges.

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;1653079]When Yickluck was in power I did have visions of her being in a nice Victoria Secret white lace bra and panties![/QUOTE]Or even out of a nice Victoria Secret white lace bra and panties!

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1652844]The safeguards I referred to have very little if anything to do with evaluating the customer as a potential threat, though girls can avoid obvious bad apples like drunks, drug users, the foul mouthed, & etc with ease. If you were at all familiar with the business you would know what these safeguards are.

[/QUOTE]So please tell me what they are. I will pass them on to the girls I know because they sure as heck don't know. But as a guy who has been coming here for over 20 years and has gone with hundreds of girls, developed good friendships with more than a few, lived with 2 bargirls for extended periods of time and has now lived here full time for the past 5 years on soi 4, it is good to hear that I am not at all familiar with the business. Certainly not like you. Hard to imagine a girl that you are renting by the hour not telling you about her bad experiences because you certainly sound like a wonderfully sympathetic listener. And your observational powers of never having noticed Arabs and Indians hitting on the girls make you legendary and certainly a worthwhile contributor to this discussion. So I await your safeguards with anticipation as do all the working girls in Thailand. Just address the two scenarios I gave you. A street girl is approached by a man she has never seen before and a gogo girl is barfined by a stranger through the mamasan. Please tell me step by step what they should do.

[QUOTE=DRRonin;1653255]So please tell me what they are. I will pass them on to the girls I know because they sure as heck don't know.

[/QUOTE]There would be no point, as the girls are already aware of them and or putting the same into practice. Moreover it is better that the rare bad apple is not informed. But if you don't know of a single measure sex workers take to protect themselves, google will help you find long lists of them.

[QUOTE=DRRonin;1653255]And your observational powers of never having noticed Arabs and Indians hitting on the girls make you legendary and certainly a worthwhile contributor to this discussion.[/QUOTE]That has nothing to do with the topic. I don't sit outside every day for the entire evening observing to see if an occasional Indian group will approach a street worker & be immediately rejected. I'm in my room with a girl, often for hours, & if you know anything about women, it's impossible to shut them up. Even the deaf & dumb ones, LOL. If they can speak enough English to blab away nonstop for an hour or two, as many of them can, you may be in for one hell of a ride.

I've heard stories of violence to other girls from certain nationalities, but never from a Westerner, Korean or Japanese, etc. Not that it doesn't happen, but is extremely rare. Probably way more life threatening incidents occur with the old guys they are with who have heart attacks or die during the sex act. The vast majority of Thai sex trade workers would easily beat these golden age relics in an arm wrestle. They are about as dangerous as a new born kitten.

I was shocked to notice a decline of as much as 90%, at certain times, in number of freelancers on sukumvit road during latest trip in Nov. And this is just FLS, not doables. It has certainly left me very uneasy and put a huge question mark whether it will be worth flying to Thhailand in future, considering the time money and effort involved in travelling more than half the planet.

So the question is what other alternatives can be used to increase number of freelancer encounters. I am familiar with cowboy and nana bars. Know biere garten and massage parlours etc. But is that all?

Are there any bars in BKK similar to what Pattaya has on soi 6 and beach road where one can easily bar fine a cutie or two?

By the way, if anyone is on the ground in sukhumvit, are things improving now that it is high season?

[QUOTE=Margaya;1653430]
So the question is what other alternatives can be used to increase number of freelancer encounters. [/QUOTE]Social media like Facebook, Tango, Tagged, DateInAsia etcetera.
I don't have much experience with this yet as I've only very recently started using it but there has been some positive reports here.

[QUOTE=Margaya;1653430]I was shocked to notice a decline of as much as 90%, at certain times, in number of freelancers on sukumvit road during latest trip in Nov. And this is just FLS, not doables. It has certainly left me very uneasy and put a huge question mark whether it will be worth flying to Thhailand in future, considering the time money and effort involved in travelling more than half the planet.

So the question is what other alternatives can be used to increase number of freelancer encounters. I am familiar with cowboy and nana bars. Know biere garten and massage parlours etc. But is that all?

Are there any bars in BKK similar to what Pattaya has on soi 6 and beach road where one can easily bar fine a cutie or two?

By the way, if anyone is on the ground in sukhumvit, are things improving now that it is high season?[/QUOTE]I was reminded yesterday of another reason why the FL numbers are declining in Thailand. Some are going out of country to work where the rewards are potentially much higher. A friend who I have known for close to 5 years told me that she is going with a another FL friend to work in Malaysia for 2 months. It is her first try out of country but nearly every FL that I know well has given it a go and some do it on a regular basis to either Malaysia, Singapore, Hong Kong, Japan and even to Bahrain. A few have come back with empty pockets but a few others have come back loaded to the gills with cash. Those ones spread the word. Three girls I know well who used to do the Nana Parking Lot made so much money over a couple of years that they have quit the sex trade, moved back home and opened businesses. Good for them. That was always their goal.

As to the FL scene around Sukhumvit and soi 4 right now it is very hit and miss. Mainly miss. The cops have been out a few nights in force to harass them and also to bumble around the Plaza checking for the age of the girls, murderers and nationality ids. Many nights I have walked through the area and seen but a handful of girls but then on occasion I have seen up to 20 or so in the Parking Lot, another 15 up or down soi 4 and a few on Sukhumvit. Lower Sukhumvit has pretty much been taken over by the African women till you get to around Thermae where a few Thai fls hang out. Among all of these of course are plenty of LB's. As to quality, probably pretty much what you saw in November.

Discos are really where the FL scene has moved to. But even those have changed as they can no longer stay open legally till 6 am. Most are shutting down between 2-3 am. Still plenty of time to find a girl though. But generally more expensive then their street sisters and a door charge as well.

"Are there any bars in BKK similar to what Pattaya has on soi 6 and beach road where one can easily bar fine a cutie or two?

Not really clear what you mean by that. Nothing like soi 6 other than a few BJ bars but there are many beer bars where girls can be barfined on soi 4.

As to whether its worthwhile coming halfway around the world to Thailand; of course it is. It's Thailand! And it's warm and sunny.

Crazy House had many good looking slim girls Saturday night. Big contrast from Thursday. I was just window shopping. Chatted to front of house girl Naen who is quite bubbly in character.

Heard that one guy (Korean) paid a fee of 15000 for one girl which gives him special rights to take her with paying any bar fines any day. That girl is no longer dancing nude but stays clothed. Maybe has become another PR girl. Seems very cheap fee assuming he will take the girl very often. Described as a "boyfriend".

[QUOTE=Margaya;1653430]I was shocked to notice a decline of as much as 90%, at certain times, in number of freelancers on sukumvit road during latest trip in Nov. And this is just FLS, not doables. It has certainly left me very uneasy and put a huge question mark whether it will be worth flying to Thhailand in future, considering the time money and effort involved in travelling more than half the planet.

So the question is what other alternatives can be used to increase number of freelancer encounters. I am familiar with cowboy and nana bars. Know biere garten and massage parlours etc. But is that all?[/QUOTE]Just the bars in Soi Cowboy and Nana and its surrounding area will yield you so many possible encounters, you will be embarassed for choice already. Maybe they will not all be FL girls but a-gogo or bargirls, but what's the difference? Once she's in your room and her clothes come off, she'll provide the same service.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1653592]Heard that one guy (Korean) paid a fee of 15000 for one girl which gives him special rights to take her with paying any bar fines any day. That girl is no longer dancing nude but stays clothed. Maybe has become another PR girl. Seems very cheap fee assuming he will take the girl very often. Described as a "boyfriend".[/QUOTE]What a nutcake. No wonder the scene is no fun. These turds have really thrown a wrench in things. BKK was great when it was Western mongers and a few Japanese. I hear the Koreans are making a mess of Angeles as well. They sure screw and skew the market.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1653360]I've heard stories of violence to other girls from certain nationalities, but never from a Westerner, Korean or Japanese, etc. [/QUOTE]What a stupid racist statement. Does murder count as violence for you? Here's a recent one, apparently committed by a Westerner: [URL]http://goo.gl/yTl8El[/URL].

Not sure about the Japanese, but Koreans have a reputation in Angeles City for treating girls roughly.

Thanks for the detailed response.

I have heard exactly same answer from another long time BKK resident. FLs are skipping sukhumvit road and moving to discos.

"there are many beer bars where girls can be barfined on soi 4. ".

If possible please let me know names of some bars to start with.

I have seen hundreds of beer bars in Pattaya but somwhow in BKK, saw only a go gos in nana and soi cowboy. May be I am missing something.

[QUOTE=DRRonin;1653549]I was reminded yesterday of another reason why the FL numbers are declining in Thailand. Some are going out of country to work where the rewards are potentially much higher. A friend who I have known for close to 5 years told me that she is going with a another FL friend to work in Malaysia for 2 months. It is her first try out of country but nearly every FL that I know well has given it a go and some do it on a regular basis to either Malaysia, Singapore, Hong Kong, Japan and even to Bahrain. A few have come back with empty pockets but a few others have come back loaded to the gills with cash. Those ones spread the word. Three girls I know well who used to do the Nana Parking Lot made so much money over a couple of years that they have quit the sex trade, moved back home and opened businesses. Good for them. That was always their goal.

As to the FL scene around Sukhumvit and soi 4 right now it is very hit and miss. Mainly miss. The cops have been out a few nights in force to harass them and also to bumble around the Plaza checking for the age of the girls, murderers and nationality ids. Many nights I have walked through the area and seen but a handful of girls but then on occasion I have seen up to 20 or so in the Parking Lot, another 15 up or down soi 4 and a few on Sukhumvit. Lower Sukhumvit has pretty much been taken over by the African women till you get to around Thermae where a few Thai fls hang out. Among all of these of course are plenty of LB's. As to quality, probably pretty much what you saw in November.

Discos are really where the FL scene has moved to. But even those have changed as they can no longer stay open legally till 6 am. Most are shutting down between 2-3 am. Still plenty of time to find a girl though. But generally more expensive then their street sisters and a door charge as well.

"Are there any bars in BKK similar to what Pattaya has on soi 6 and beach road where one can easily bar fine a cutie or two?

Not really clear what you mean by that. Nothing like soi 6 other than a few BJ bars but there are many beer bars where girls can be barfined on soi 4.

As to whether its worthwhile coming halfway around the world to Thailand; of course it is. It's Thailand! And it's warm and sunny.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;1653617]What a stupid racist statement. Does murder count as violence for you? Here's a recent one, apparently committed by a Westerner: [URL]http://goo.gl/yTl8El[/URL].

Not sure about the Japanese, but Koreans have a reputation in Angeles City for treating girls roughly.[/QUOTE]It's not racist, though quite hilarious to read that in light of your comment about Koreans in AC.

As for murder you should have kept reading what I posted immediately following the portion you quoted:

"I've heard stories of violence to other girls from certain nationalities, but never from a Westerner, Korean or Japanese, etc. Not that it doesn't happen, but is extremely rare. ".

It's no secret that a large percentage of Thai PFP gals prefer not to go with certain nationalities & the reasons why. That's simply factual scientific information, nothing to do with racism. I wonder if some people think if you just mention any specific race it's racism, no matter what you say about the particular race. They should look up the meaning of the word. Is it racism to say Koreans have shorter dicks than Americans? No. Is it racism to say that in my experience Thai women have been nicer than American feminazis? No.

In this dream, I spend two nights in BKK on my way to Bali, I have been in BKK about 4 years ago, so a two days trip only give.

Me Adeline on how things are and in no way can be 100% accurate.

Like many people have said before now you can see more Arabs, Indians and Africans than four years ago. Don't want to sound racist as I'm not, but not the best representation of those ethnicities, no wonder Thais starting to dislike foreigners.

Regarding the girls I made the rounds on many massage parlors around and competring to 4 years ago the quality of the girls is so much worse. After 30 hours of travel, the first night in BKK I chose one massage girls close to my Hotel President Grande which by the way is girl friendly and nice for the price with a good size pool that can be used for excise.

I took the girl to the hotel, the girl first provide regular massage and then ask if I want more, I was very tired because of the trip and we settled for 2500 , I know I overpaid but we agreed to GFE and she complied. The girls had a nice face but mother body.

Next day was looking for more but all the girls seemed hardcore for my taste so I didn't do anything else, went to a legit thai massage and ate thai food and that was good for me. Also meet at tagged girl, we went for dinner but she didn't want to to do anything else so I said OK enough from BKK lets get ready for Bali. Look for my report.

Conclusion, traveling 30 hours from the USA Just to go mongering in Thailand is no longer attractive, better go to central and South America.

And then I wake up in Medellin.

[QUOTE=Margaya;1653654] ...

I have heard exactly same answer from another long time BKK resident. FLs are skipping sukhumvit road and moving to discos.
"there are many beer bars where girls can be barfined on soi 4. ".
If possible please let me know names of some bars to start with.
I have seen hundreds of beer bars in Pattaya but somwhow in BKK, saw only a go gos in nana and soi cowboy. May be I am missing something.[/QUOTE]Walk down soi 4 and you will find a lot of bars. Right as you walk past the entrance to the Nana gogos there are about 8-10 beer bars. Keep walking and you will find plenty more on both sides of the street. Walk down about 200-300 meters.

There are also more bars to have fun on Soi 18 and Sukhumvit (not far from Soi Cowboy).

[QUOTE=Wolvenvacht;1653601]Just the bars in Soi Cowboy and Nana and its surrounding area will yield you so many possible encounters, you will be embarassed for choice already. Maybe they will not all be FL girls but a-gogo or bargirls, but what's the difference? Once she's in your room and her clothes come off, she'll provide the same service.[/QUOTE]What's the difference? The price for a start. And hunting FL girls is so much more fun and the reward can be so much better compared to hunting (yawn) agogo and bar girls. But that's a matter of taste of course.

And yes, they all provide the same service. It can be good, mediocre or bad LOL!

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1653714]I wonder if some people think if you just mention any specific race it's racism, no matter what you say about the particular race. They should look up the meaning of the word. Is it racism to say Koreans have shorter dicks than Americans?[/QUOTE]Of course it is not racism. They are of exactly the same race: all humans!

[QUOTE=Mogwai;1653889]What's the difference? The price for a start.[/QUOTE]Watch out, you may get what you pay for.

[QUOTE=Mogwai;1653889]And hunting FL girls is so much more fun and the reward can be so much better compared to hunting (yawn) agogo and bar girls.[/QUOTE]I rather spend my time in making love. Trawling the discos is such a bother.

[QUOTE=Mogwai;1653889]But that's a matter of taste of course.[/QUOTE]The Buddha be praised we don't all have the same tastes. Let's divide the world between us: you get the disco's, I get the a-gogo clubs!

[QUOTE=Mogwai;1653889]And yes, they all provide the same service. It can be good, mediocre or bad LOL![/QUOTE]Well said.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1653714]. Is it racism to say Koreans have shorter dicks than Americans? No.[/QUOTE]Not that I disagree with your post generally, but I don't think this example makes your point. It depends on the context of a statement like this. For example, if every time someone is asked what they think of Koreans they respond "they have shorter dicks than Americans," yes that would be racist because while factual on average, it is meant to also be disparaging. It also would be racist if a Korean and American got into a verbal fight, and the American said "you know, your people have shorter dicks than my people. " On the other hand, if you were in the R&D department of Trojan condoms, and were in charge of their expansion into Korea, it would be a neutral relevant fact that Koreans have shorter dicks than Americans.

Just a long way of saying you could choose a better example and one that does not depend so much on context.

[QUOTE=Margaya;1653430]I was shocked to notice a decline of as much as 90%, at certain times, in number of freelancers on sukumvit road during latest trip in Nov. And this is just FLS, not doables. It has certainly left me very uneasy and put a huge question mark whether it will be worth flying to Thhailand in future, considering the time money and effort involved in travelling more than half the planet.[/QUOTE]Traveling more than half the planet is a bit of an oxymoron. Next time just head in the opposite direction!

Yes I also witnessed the shocking decline in the Nana area FL action last month. The Nana Hotel put tables along the sidewalk on their driveway, and kind of sectioned off the Soi 4 sidewalk in front of their Nana Hotel sign. They also seemed to have an employee assigned to shoe the girls away if they attempted to stand in the driveway or the parking lot. Of course some girls did not get the memo and were persistent so sometimes there was a handful or so instead of what used to be dozens and dozens. The quality has also suffered proportionally. Friday and Saturday nights remain the best times to shop.

The Sukhumvit SW group seemed to have mostly settled around the McDonalds at Suk 5, but it is a tired group during the day and LB central after dark.

[QUOTE=Mogwai;1653527]Social media like Facebook, Tango, Tagged, DateInAsia etcetera.
I don't have much experience with this yet as I've only very recently started using it but there has been some positive reports here.[/QUOTE]I think the cost for these social media ladies will be higher than a SW as they are computer savvy (educated) and functionally on call to your convenience.

SL.

[QUOTE=Margaya;1653430]I was shocked to notice a decline of as much as 90%, at certain times, in number of freelancers on sukumvit road during latest trip in Nov. And this is just FLS, not doables. It has certainly left me very uneasy and put a huge question mark whether it will be worth flying to Thhailand in future, considering the time money and effort involved in travelling more than half the planet.

So the question is what other alternatives can be used to increase number of freelancer encounters. I am familiar with cowboy and nana bars. Know biere garten and massage parlours etc. But is that all?

Are there any bars in BKK similar to what Pattaya has on soi 6 and beach road where one can easily bar fine a cutie or two?

By the way, if anyone is on the ground in sukhumvit, are things improving now that it is high season?[/QUOTE]Thank you for confirming my suspicions. I was there last year in Dec and found Bier Garten empty at 11 pm. And I am alarmed this is still the case through the next year when my vacation is due next month. From BKK to Patong to Lanta, the availability of quality FL gals was so scarce, I spent two out of every five nights (or almost half actually) without a gal even though I had money to spend on an LT every single day. This time I am going all out on the afternoon soapies and have very low expectations about finding a great looking FL for LT. Prolly my last visit to TH.

PP rocks!! Next year on it is two trips a year to the PP. I think I'll just forget about revisiting TH after this latest trip.

P.

[QUOTE=Wolvenvacht;1653986]Watch out, you may get what you pay for.

I rather spend my time in making love. Trawling the discos is such a bother.

The Buddha be praised we don't all have the same tastes. Let's divide the world between us: you get the disco's, I get the a-gogo clubs!

Well said.[/QUOTE]Re 1: Hmm yes, in agogo's I usually don't get what I pay for.

Re 2: Me too, I don't like the disco's. There are other hunting grounds.

Re 3: Deal! Accept that I prefer the streets and FL bars. You can have the coyote's.

Re 4: Thanks.

[QUOTE=Sunlover2;1654005]Traveling more than half the planet is a bit of an oxymoron. Next time just head in the opposite direction!
[/QUOTE]That depends, traveling in the opposite direction can take more time.

[QUOTE=Sunlover2;1654005]
I think the cost for these social media ladies will be higher than a SW as they are computer savvy (educated) and functionally on call to your convenience.
SL.[/QUOTE]Maybe. But I don't mind paying a little extra for a good shag. And I've read reports from guys scoring freebies on these sites. Although we all know it's hardly ever really free in the end.

Thanks Mogwai for the mention of Tagged, new to me. Far better than Tango as it lets you search other places wherever you are whereas Tango only lets you search from your current location.

[QUOTE=Bart1;1654057]Thanks Mogwai for the mention of Tagged, new to me. Far better than Tango as it lets you search other places wherever you are whereas Tango only lets you search from your current location.[/QUOTE]Tango lets you do that I think. In the Discover People pop-up, click on Around the World and type in the location that you want to check. I was doing Bangkok from back in the USA. What you won't get are winks from girls from anyone outside of your location. Since I have been back here a few weeks ago I have gotten about 10 winks from girls of which a few of them were cute and young.

Back from 1 week in Bangkok. I RTFF before I go and retreived some valuable tips. So time to give something back.

Best tip I read here: Crazy House! OMG! Without any doubt the hottest place in BKK. Now I understand why it is not situated on Soi Cowboy itself but just around the corner. It makes Soi Cowboy looks like a joke!

The man from Iran has many young and beautiful coyotte girls standing in front of his bars: "Only looking, not touching. " Crazy House has the same quality level of girls, dancing full nude on stage, and ready to be bar fined.

I went almost every evening to CH, retreiving many girls back to my hotel. All girls I had were good, non of them were really bad performers.

First evening I saw in the back a quit shy girl. It turned out she was from Cambodia and only 4 days working in CH! Truly beginners luck. I had a great fuck with her despite she didn't want to give BBBJ.

All the other girls did. I can't remember all the names of the girls I had but number 3 and 20 I remember as very good sessions and BB all the way.

After a while I started to be friend with the manager (Linda) and the owner of the place. She noticed I was not in BKK on a budget and started to point out for me her best girls and introducing me to her new arrives.

At the other hand she always wanted tips and drinks what was quit annoying.

I don't know who does the recruitment but this person does a hell of a job. Linda introduced me to some very nice girls.

I remember some girls so tight I just blow up my condom every time!

My hotel was Legacy Suites. Another good tip from this forum. I had a big room with little salon to chat up with the girls before hitting the bedroom.

They also never checked ID's what was good because Linda sometimes warned me a girl had no ID with her.

Other places I visited only 1 time because they were no match for Crazy House.

NEP. I go inside Rainbow 4 but girls too old and chubby for my taste. Then to Mandarin. Met a nice girl named Boum. Not a super face but great body, no kids.

Toke her LT and she was hot. She wanted to go in bad first and mounted my dick after a while bb.

Mixx and Fashion bar. Very beautiful Russian girls there. Models I guess. Mixx was almost empty.

Climax. Very crowded. Full of FL's, many of them very drunk. I only see few beautiful girls. Most in their 30's and probably with kids.

Nataree. Wanted to try out a soapy for the first time.

I went inside Nataree, VIP, Colonize and Emanuelle.

Colonize and Nataree had the most beautiful girls.

I ended up in Nataree. Inside I saw a nice girl sitting alone on the couch.

I choose her and turned out to be the most expensive girl 5000 B.

I wasn't so crazy about this whole soapy idea. The water in the tube was rather cold and the A/C blew full power.

I had very cold and my little friend also. I asked to turn off the A/C and a BBBJ brought my friend back to life.

The girl only spoke Thai but she was sweet. Also very tight and I blew up the condom again. She cried when she realized I blew my load deep into her pussy.

A bad day at the office I suppose.

Soi 22 Pern Massage. Met up front nice girl, named So. She gave me a good massage and really excellent hand job!

Soi 23 Near the end on right hand side forget name shop but girl's name was them.

She gave me an excellent oily massage. I was her first customer that day and she was full of energy.

Also good FS with condom. Really nice girl.

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;1653179]Yea! The impression I have without any damn experience women with power might be real nasty good in bed?[/QUOTE]The Hildebeast? OMG! No way.

Of course, I think she bats for the other side, so my point may be moot. :D

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1653220]"Add to that the Thais being less hung up about PFP & having a higher number of PFP gals per capita than anywhere else in the world & it will probably be a prime hobbying destination for decades to come. "[/QUOTE]The elephant in the room, that everybody is studiously ignoring, is demographics.

The indisputable fact is that Thailand's birth rate has been dropping radically for years. Depending on the source, it's now around somewhere between 10 and 12 per 1,000 population. That's down from around 16 a decade ago. That's at least a 30% drop. By contrast, the PI is double, somewhere around 24 per 1,000. That, too, has been declining, but only at less than 1% during the same decade.

Nonsensical statements, like cultural brainwashing, aside, I don't think there is a major culture in the world where prostitution is considered a viable career option. Women aren't wired that way. However, there will always be a percentage of a given population that will work in that trade. The percentage will go up during hard times, and go down during good times, but, overall, I think it remains reasonably constant.

Now I don't care if that percentage is 3%, 5%, or 10%. The cold hard fact is that every year a segment of that population in Thailand ages out of that industry. And they are not being replaced. The segment that enters the market is, by definition, smaller in number than the one it's replacing.

So, you can whistle past the graveyard all you want. The fact is that, unless something happens to dramatically increase the birth rate, or Thailand goes into a major economic meltdown, it will not be a prime hobbying destination for decades to come.

[QUOTE=DRRonin;1654128]Tango lets you do that I think. In the Discover People pop-up, click on Around the World and type in the location that you want to check. I was doing Bangkok from back in the USA. What you won't get are winks from girls from anyone outside of your location. Since I have been back here a few weeks ago I have gotten about 10 winks from girls of which a few of them were cute and young.[/QUOTE]You are correct, brain fade on my part, I was thinking of Wechat.

I can sure tell my posting was not on the Medellin site, I would have been jumped on and my head served on a platter for my mistake. Thanks for your gentle suggestion that I was possibly incorrect.

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1654225]The elephant in the room, that everybody is studiously ignoring, is demographics.

The indisputable fact is that Thailand's birth rate has been dropping radically for years. Depending on the source, it's now around somewhere between 10 and 12 per 1,000 population. That's down from around 16 a decade ago. That's at least a 30% drop. By contrast, the PI is double, somewhere around 24 per 1,000. That, too, has been declining, but only at less than 1% during the same decade.

Nonsensical statements, like cultural brainwashing, aside, I don't think there is a major culture in the world where prostitution is considered a viable career option. Women aren't wired that way. However, there will always be a percentage of a given population that will work in that trade. The percentage will go up during hard times, and go down during good times, but, overall, I think it remains reasonably constant.

Now I don't care if that percentage is 3%, 5%, or 10%. The cold hard fact is that every year a segment of that population in Thailand ages out of that industry. And they are not being replaced. The segment that enters the market is, by definition, smaller in number than the one it's replacing.

So, you can whistle past the graveyard all you want. The fact is that, unless something happens to dramatically increase the birth rate, or Thailand goes into a major economic meltdown, it will not be a prime hobbying destination for decades to come.[/QUOTE]Excellent point. And I will add to that; Thailand's population pyramid inverted in '97. It is an aging population, although on a walk around BKK you would think otherwise.

Guess those Catholics in the 'Pines just breed more.

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1654225]The elephant in the room, that everybody is studiously ignoring, is demographics.

Now I don't care if that percentage is 3%, 5%, or 10%. The cold hard fact is that every year a segment of that population in Thailand ages out of that industry. And they are not being replaced. The segment that enters the market is, by definition, smaller in number than the one it's replacing.[/QUOTE]This point has been raised before & it was mentioned that the Thai birth rate has not been declining nearly so much in recent years & has remained rather constant of late. Where it will go in the future, whether higher or lower, is unknown.

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1654225]So, you can whistle past the graveyard all you want. The fact is that, unless something happens to dramatically increase the birth rate, or Thailand goes into a major economic meltdown, it will not be a prime hobbying destination for decades to come.[/QUOTE]To be brief, due to time restraints, I'd simply say it is not nearly so simple. There are many factors at play, not just economic & demographic. (Of the two, though, the poverty of third world rice growing Siam is much more sure to continue in the decades to come, not the declining birth rate.).

There is, for example, the law of supply & demand, with ever increasing numbers of tourists to LOS, which provides work for many Thai sex trade workers who are well past their prime. So they do not leave the profession or have been able to remain in it much longer than in the past.

In the 90's many were removed from the trade due to HIV. With modern meds & a far lower HIV rate in 2014, the rate of TG sex workers quiting due to HIV is far less.

Other factors that can effect the numbers of PFP gals working in Siam & their ratio to customers is what happens in the political arena, natural disasters & the prosperity or decline of its tourism industry, etc.

Issues in these areas have been quite regular & generally lead to the Kingdom becoming even more of a "prime mongering destination" quality wise during the period of time when they occur.

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1654225]The elephant in the room, that everybody is studiously ignoring, is demographics.

The indisputable fact is that Thailand's birth rate has been dropping radically for years. Depending on the source, it's now around somewhere between 10 and 12 per 1,000 population. That's down from around 16 a decade ago. That's at least a 30% drop. By contrast, the PI is double, somewhere around 24 per 1,000. That, too, has been declining, but only at less than 1% during the same decade.

Nonsensical statements, like cultural brainwashing, aside, I don't think there is a major culture in the world where prostitution is considered a viable career option. Women aren't wired that way. However, there will always be a percentage of a given population that will work in that trade. The percentage will go up during hard times, and go down during good times, but, overall, I think it remains reasonably constant.

Now I don't care if that percentage is 3%, 5%, or 10%. The cold hard fact is that every year a segment of that population in Thailand ages out of that industry. And they are not being replaced. The segment that enters the market is, by definition, smaller in number than the one it's replacing.

So, you can whistle past the graveyard all you want. The fact is that, unless something happens to dramatically increase the birth rate, or Thailand goes into a major economic meltdown, it will not be a prime hobbying destination for decades to come.[/QUOTE]Thanks for bringing some clarity to all this with actual facts. Something I have few of I admit! Have you read anything about why this is occurring? It is a general trend in most of the developed world but a 30% drop in a decade sounds extreme. Has the economic progress in the past decade changed that with women entering the work force in such greater numbers?

Now to get back to my factless based observations. I sometimes wonder how Thailand has any births with the number of gays, ladyboys, Toms and Dees that I see around Bangkok. I can't go into a retail store without being served by a gay man. I can't go into a fastfood restaurant without seeing a burgeoning ladyboy. Tom and Dees are everywhere and over the past couple of years I have been surprised to find out how many working girls have a Tom looking out for them and just like Thai men smacking them around and taking their money. Of course Bangkok is likely a magnet with people of those sexual predilections but I come from NYC and the numbers here amaze me. And their openness amazes me even more but good for them.

Great update.

Thanks.

I'm in LOS end of Jan / Feb and will be sure to check the activities at CH.

BTW. Did you witness any of those goings on with the "random inspections / shake downs" from the friendly constablishment?

[QUOTE=RangeLove;1654198]Back from 1 week in Bangkok. I RTFF before I go and retreived some valuable tips. So time to give something back.

Best tip I read here: Crazy House! OMG! Without any doubt the hottest place in BKK. Now I understand why it is not situated on Soi Cowboy itself but just around the corner. It makes Soi Cowboy looks like a joke!

The man from Iran has many young and beautiful coyotte girls standing in front of his bars: "Only looking, not touching. " Crazy House has the same quality level of girls, dancing full nude on stage, and ready to be bar fined.

I went almost every evening to CH, retreiving many girls back to my hotel. All girls I had were good, non of them were really bad performers.

First evening I saw in the back a quit shy girl. It turned out she was from Cambodia and only 4 days working in CH! Truly beginners luck. I had a great fuck with her despite she didn't want to give BBBJ.

All the other girls did. I can't remember all the names of the girls I had but number 3 and 20 I remember as very good sessions and BB all the way.

After a while I started to be friend with the manager (Linda) and the owner of the place. She noticed I was not in BKK on a budget and started to point out for me her best girls and introducing me to her new arrives.

At the other hand she always wanted tips and drinks what was quit annoying.

I don't know who does the recruitment but this person does a hell of a job. Linda introduced me to some very nice girls.

I remember some girls so tight I just blow up my condom every time!

My hotel was Legacy Suites. Another good tip from this forum. I had a big room with little salon to chat up with the girls before hitting the bedroom.

They also never checked ID's what was good because Linda sometimes warned me a girl had no ID with her.

Other places I visited only 1 time because they were no match for Crazy House.

NEP. I go inside Rainbow 4 but girls too old and chubby for my taste. Then to Mandarin. Met a nice girl named Boum. Not a super face but great body, no kids.

Toke her LT and she was hot. She wanted to go in bad first and mounted my dick after a while bb.

Mixx and Fashion bar. Very beautiful Russian girls there. Models I guess. Mixx was almost empty.

Climax. Very crowded. Full of FL's, many of them very drunk. I only see few beautiful girls. Most in their 30's and probably with kids.

Nataree. Wanted to try out a soapy for the first time.

I went inside Nataree, VIP, Colonize and Emanuelle.

Colonize and Nataree had the most beautiful girls.

I ended up in Nataree. Inside I saw a nice girl sitting alone on the couch.

I choose her and turned out to be the most expensive girl 5000 B.

I wasn't so crazy about this whole soapy idea. The water in the tube was rather cold and the A/C blew full power.

I had very cold and my little friend also. I asked to turn off the A/C and a BBBJ brought my friend back to life.

The girl only spoke Thai but she was sweet. Also very tight and I blew up the condom again. She cried when she realized I blew my load deep into her pussy.

A bad day at the office I suppose.

Soi 22 Pern Massage. Met up front nice girl, named So. She gave me a good massage and really excellent hand job!

Soi 23 Near the end on right hand side forget name shop but girl's name was them.

She gave me an excellent oily massage. I was her first customer that day and she was full of energy.

Also good FS with condom. Really nice girl.[/QUOTE]Great report and validation that this place is great. One good point about the Moma. I was talking to a hot 18 year old who agreed to go with me long term. After we agreed on the money she asked for a lady drink, which I had no problem with. After the drink she flipped me the bird and walked away. I motioned for the Moma to come over and I told her what hapenned. Within 5 minutes the girl was back and was ordered to pay for the lady drink. Then the Moma introduced me to a hot 23 year old who fucked my brains out, she even bought me a drink! Love this place!

[QUOTE=DRRonin;1654333]Thanks for bringing some clarity to all this with actual facts. Something I have few of I admit! Have you read anything about why this is occurring? It is a general trend in most of the developed world but a 30% drop in a decade sounds extreme. Has the economic progress in the past decade changed that with women entering the work force in such greater numbers?

Now to get back to my factless based observations. I sometimes wonder how Thailand has any births with the number of gays, ladyboys, Toms and Dees that I see around Bangkok. I can't go into a retail store without being served by a gay man. I can't go into a fastfood restaurant without seeing a burgeoning ladyboy. Tom and Dees are everywhere and over the past couple of years I have been surprised to find out how many working girls have a Tom looking out for them and just like Thai men smacking them around and taking their money. Of course Bangkok is likely a magnet with people of those sexual predilections but I come from NYC and the numbers here amaze me. And their openness amazes me even more but good for them.[/QUOTE]There is a great Ted talk on population and development- Hans Rosling: Religions and Babies. Check it out. Dude is a demographic specialist. Very interesting. Goes into development, population, and peak population.

Yes, it is amazing how many categories of "sexuality" there are in BKK. Toms, Dees, Bis, Gays, Ladyboys, etc. While yes it is very open in a way, it is also true that each category tends to have rigid rules of behavior that are quite strictly adhered to. I read an article once by a Western lesbian who was working in BKK. She had become quite frustrated at the fact that here she was supposed to be either a "Tom" or a "Dee. " Hence a woman who enjoys both giving and receiving is kind of out of luck.

In my opinion, the Coyote girls in Soi cowboy are more like ordinary bargirls, who dress differently and have a higher price, generalising just a bit. LOL.

Firstly I have entered a couple of places, and most of them either cannot dance properly, or are too lazy to do so. This is simple to most gogo girls.

90% of them are just slightly above average looks for bargirls, perhaps not too many fatties. The girls in Crazy House are superior to midnight girls overall on a Saturday night, perhaps not every night. A very small percentage of the Coyotes are really stunning in Cowboy.
The following stickman report shows a pic of a very ordinary Coyote:
[url]http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/StickmanWeeklyColumn2012/coyote-dancers.htm[/url]

Coyote girls in Soi Cowboy are bar finable in most bars for a heavy price. You can take them out to dinner and disco for a high price. Sex may or may not be available. I have fucked a girl from Dollhouse who dresses and dances like a Coyote, not naked.

In Midnite, a Coyote girl took her bars off and danced topless presumably for a good tip. This is not what real Coyotes do.

So all up, I think the majority of Coyotes in Cowboy are just overpriced fakes.

[QUOTE=RangeLove;1654198]Back from 1 week Bangkok.

All the other girls did. I can't remember all the names of the girls I had but number 3 and 20 I remember as very good sessions and BB all the

They also never checked ID's what was good because Linda sometimes warned me a girl had no ID with her.

Other places I visited only 1 time because they were no match for Crazy House.

NEP. I go inside Rainbow 4 but girls too old and chubby for my taste. Then to Mandarin. Met a nice girl named Boum. Not a super face but great body, no kids.

Toke her LT and she was hot. She wanted to go in bad first and mounted my dick after a while bb.

Mixx and Fashion bar. Very beautiful Russian girls there. Models I guess. Mixx was almost empty.

Climax. Very crowded. Full of FL's, many of them very drunk. I only see few beautiful girls. Most in their 30's and probably with kids.

Nataree. Wanted to try out a soapy for the first time.

I went inside Nataree, VIP, Colonize and Emanuelle.

Colonize and Nataree had the most beautiful girls.

I ended up in Nataree. Inside I saw a nice girl sitting alone on the couch.

I choose her and turned out to be the most expensive girl 5000 B.

I wasn't so crazy about this whole soapy idea. The water in the tube was rather cold and the A/C blew full power.

I had very cold and my little friend also. I asked to turn off the A/C and a BBBJ brought my friend back to life.

The girl only spoke Thai but she was sweet. Also very tight and I blew up the condom again. She cried when she realized I blew my load deep into her pussy.

A bad day at the office I suppose.

Really nice girl.[/QUOTE]Another two week millionare kiddy fiddler.

Johnie.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1654438]There is a great Ted talk on population and development- Hans Rosling: Religions and Babies. Check it out. Dude is a demographic specialist. Very interesting. Goes into development, population, and peak population.
[/QUOTE]Good reminder GS.

I remember him as the designer of "Gapminder" which Google has now bought.

Here is the link:

[URL]http://www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_religions_and_babies[/URL]

I will repost in the Philippines thread too.

[QUOTE=Bkkdog;1654424]Great report and validation that this place is great. One good point about the Moma. I was talking to a hot 18 year old who agreed to go with me long term. After we agreed on the money she asked for a lady drink, which I had no problem with. After the drink she flipped me the bird and walked away. I motioned for the Moma to come over and I told her what hapenned. Within 5 minutes the girl was back and was ordered to pay for the lady drink. Then the Moma introduced me to a hot 23 year old who fucked my brains out, she even bought me a drink! Love this place![/QUOTE]Good on you. I wish more guys would not be afraid to do that. Most guys just blow it off. But if the girls get away with that type of shit, they will talk about it with other girls and it will only get worse. Job well done and you were rewarded too.

[QUOTE=Johnie;1654444]Another two week millionare kiddy fiddler.

Johnie.[/QUOTE]Rangelove had a very informative posting. Negative responses like yours turn a lot of guys off writing reports. Why can we not all have "only good energy".

Hi there.

We will stop by central Bangkok for couple nights in January.

Where one would look for young free-lancers or in-call girls. Quality is a must this time.

Please share your experience on pricing too. Thanks a lot!

[QUOTE=Johnie;1654444]Another two week millionare kiddy fiddler.

Johnie[/QUOTE]For a guy who is below 30 many of working girls could appear old while 80 year old monger would not mind 40+ sex worker.

However nothing in his post implied he was looking for underaged.

[QUOTE=Bart1;1654517]Rangelove had a very informative posting. Negative responses like yours turn a lot of guys off writing reports. Why can we not all have "only good energy".[/QUOTE]Taking girls back to your hotel without I'd is never a good idea. If the BIB arrive and she is too young, then its a trip to the monkey house. We should not encourage stupidity. That's why!

Also 5000 baht for a cold water soapy or a soapy at any temperature is too much, otherwise we will all end up paying these prices.

Johnie.

[QUOTE=Johnie;1654444]Another two week millionare kiddy fiddler.

Johnie.[/QUOTE]I agree 5000 bht is very high, but without looking back at previous posts, I think I recall they quote about 2200 to 4500 or so. When I was there last February that is about what the papasan quoted me. The big prices were for a few young ones, but I had a choice of 50 or more in the 2200 to 2500 range who IMHO were just as good looking as the big money ones. I think the premium was for the young ages, I drank a couple of beer at a table beside where the big money ones were sitting and in looks they had nothing on 2500 bht ones. I was there about 3 times over 3 weeks and would recommend. I liked the fact I could sit at a table and have several beer and check out the chicas. Papasan there is first class guy.

[QUOTE=RangeLove;1654198]Back from 1 week in Bangkok. I RTFF before I go and retreived some valuable tips. So time to give something back.

[/QUOTE]Great TR w / a lot of good intel on several venues. Thanks for taking the time to post.

[QUOTE=RangeLove;1654198]1 week in Bangkok. I RTFF and retreived some valuable tips. time to give something back.

Crazy House! OMG! Without any doubt the hottest place in BKK. All girls I had were good, non of them were really bad performers. After a while I started to be friend with the manager (Linda) and the owner of the place. She noticed I was not in BKK on a budget and started to point out for me her best girls and introducing me to her new arrives.

My hotel was Legacy Suites. I had a big room with little salon to chat up with the girls before hitting the bedroom.

NEP: Rainbow 4 girls too old and chubby for my taste. Mandarin met a nice girl named Boum.

Mixx and Fashion bar. Very beautiful Russian girls there. Models I guess. Mixx was almost empty.

Climax. Very crowded. Full of FL's, many of them very drunk. I only see few beautiful girls.

Colonize and Nataree had the most beautiful girls. I ended up in Nataree. I choose (a girl) and (she) turned out to be the most expensive girl 5000 B. The girl only spoke Thai but she was sweet. Also very tight and I blew up the condom again. She cried when she realized I blew my load deep into her pussy. A bad day at the office I suppose.

Soi 22 Pern Massage. Met up front nice girl, named So. She gave me a good massage and really excellent hand job! [/QUOTE]Great Field Report, RangeLove. Sounds like you had a really good time. All Soapies have girls in multiple price categories. It is called the free market. Sometimes I see very attractive girls in the fishbowl and other times I see hot hot girls on the sideline. It varies. Choose who you like.

[QUOTE=Johnie;1654444]Another two week millionare kiddy fiddler.

Johnie.[/QUOTE]I think you guys are missing the point of my original comment. Why would a large establishment like CH which already, allegedly, has form in providing girls of questionable age, be providing girls to.

RangeLove without I'd?. I agree, its a free world, but be very careful!

Johnie.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1654307]This point has been raised before & it was mentioned that the Thai birth rate has not been declining nearly so much in recent years & has remained rather constant of late. Where it will go in the future, whether higher or lower, is unknown.

To be brief, due to time restraints, I'd simply say it is not nearly so simple. There are many factors at play, not just economic & demographic. (Of the two, though, the poverty of third world rice growing Siam is much more sure to continue in the decades to come, not the declining birth rate.).

There is, for example, the law of supply & demand, with ever increasing numbers of tourists to LOS, which provides work for many Thai sex trade workers who are well past their prime. So they do not leave the profession or have been able to remain in it much longer than in the past.

In the 90's many were removed from the trade due to HIV. With modern meds & a far lower HIV rate in 2014, the rate of TG sex workers quiting due to HIV is far less.

Other factors that can effect the numbers of PFP gals working in Siam & their ratio to customers is what happens in the political arena, natural disasters & the prosperity or decline of its tourism industry, etc.

Issues in these areas have been quite regular & generally lead to the Kingdom becoming even more of a "prime mongering destination" quality wise during the period of time when they occur.[/QUOTE]Well, I'm not sure where you're getting your facts, but please post them here. Here's a chart, readily available on the Internet, that is completely contrary to your assertion that the birth rate has remained constant.

[URL]http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?v=25&c=th&l=en[/URL]

As you can clearly see, it's been dropping steadily for the last decade.

Nobody said that sex workers wouldn't work longer. But, again, the fact is that they cannot work in this trade forever. When they retire there are fewer sex workers to replace them. This is indisputable.

As I said, when times get tough the percentage of women who opt for sex work probably increases. But that number is small in relation to the population as a whole. To deny that is to reveal that one knows nothing about women in general. Thailand may, or may not, have a higher percentage of the female population engaging in some form of prostitution. However, regardless of that percentage, I refuse to believe that a natural disaster or political problem sends zillions of women running for the nearest paying customer's bed. If you have some evidence to the contrary, I'm happy to be convinced otherwise.

I don't follow your argument that reduced numbers of girls and increased demand equals prime hobbying destination.

So, to summarize, there are fewer girls overall in the general population. Ipso facto, there will be fewer girls in the sex industry unless somebody has evidence that shows as the birth rate declines the percentage of females opting for sex work increases. As tourism increases there will inevitably be issues as demand outstrips supply. The scene has changed dramatically in the last 10 years. Given the above it will change even more dramatically in the next 10. There is no way Thailand will continue to be a "prime destination. " In fact, the argument can be made that it is no longer a prime destination, but that's for another thread and another day.

[QUOTE=RangeLove;1654198]
They also never checked ID's what was good because Linda sometimes warned me a girl had no ID with her.
[/QUOTE]Don't take this personally, it's your 7th posting and you may be a newb. But are you crazy??

This has to be one of the HUGEST red flags in the industry. A national I'd card is compulsory for all Thais. AFAIK a Thai national is supposed to have this on their person at all times.

When a girl tells you that she has no I'd it means one of two things. She's working illegally in Thailand or she's "younger than the statutory minimum age." (take that, Big Brother code editor!) You REALLY don't want to get mixed up in that.

The mama-sans who will do this are scum, IMO. Once I took a lady, from a beer bar on Loi Kroh, back to my hotel. She told me in the bar that she was 22 or 23 (I forget which). Upon undressing her body was absolutely not that of a 22-23 year old girl. I questioned her and she admitted that the mama-san told all the girls to tell customers that they were 23. Conveniently, she had no ID. She swore up and down that she was 19 but, lacking evidence, I refused to believe it.

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1654659]
As I said, when times get tough the percentage of women who opt for sex work probably increases. But that number is small in relation to the population as a whole. To deny that is to reveal that one knows nothing about women in general. Thailand may, or may not, have a higher percentage of the female population engaging in some form of prostitution. However, regardless of that percentage, I refuse to believe that a natural disaster or political problem sends zillions of women running for the nearest paying customer's bed. If you have some evidence to the contrary, I'm happy to be convinced otherwise.

[/QUOTE]I remember a couple years ago when Thailand had all that flooding and many factories around the country were shut down for extended periods of time putting thousands of girls out of work, I was expecting to see a large surge of freelancers around town. Never happened.

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1654668]Don't take this personally, it's your 7th posting and you may be a newb. But are you crazy??

This has to be one of the HUGEST red flags in the industry.

The mama-sans who will do this are scum, IMO. [/QUOTE]Tranquillo kimosabe, its not that serious.

Its no crime to fuck a woman who is in the country without papers. Many, many support staff in the LOS are illegals. Thais know it and are not raiding to catch them.

And we can all tell when a girls under 18.

Hello,

The FL street scene is surely going downwards in numbers and in quality.

But I did notice the number of Philippine ladies in BKK is going up. Didn't meet any Philippine FL (not like beach club in Kuala Lumpur).

The restaurant next door my hotel has a very nice typical LBFM from Philippines as one of the staff members. She is studying and working at the same time. Because the restaurant and the hotel share the same owner I presume I didn't try anything to see if she is available.

But I am almost sure soon the Philippine ladies with their GFE style and good English will give the Thai ladies a hard time.

So we can have Thai food and Philippine ladies because the Philippine food is horrible.

You can meet philipine ladies on dating sites just use extended search for thailand so you can g.

Find philipine girls living in bkk.

Sincere greetings,

Frits

[QUOTE=RangeLove;1654198]
I remember some girls so tight I just blow up my condom every time!
[/QUOTE]By "blow up" you appear to mean break the condom. Condoms break quite rarely if used properly and not deliberately broken. It should be a once per year event, or less.

It is true that there can be some very tight pussies. May was difficult to fuck for me due to being too small. A small pussy is not going to cause condom breakage. What can cause it though, is some girls stuff a sponge or even cotton wool in their pussy, euphemistically known as a "chicken" by Thai girls, especially at time of period, or for some girls (all the time). This can make the pussy seem smaller. The downside is it can also cause abrasion on the condom and cause it to break, especially if lacking lube. I always ask girls to remove the sponge, so my dick can go in further and feel smoother. When I suspect one, it can usually be found by a finger probe, so not more than about 4 inches down typically, but compressible by a dick when its a sponge of course. Girls seem to think the guy will never know anything is different to normal, but it is very different for me.

I gave up going with one Thai girl who used a sponge all the time. Perhaps some girls need it to protect against uterus bruising.

Girls in Suzi Wong doing lesbian shows, stuff cotton wool in pussy. The reason is supposedly to ensure no pussy odours. A little bit funny, that one. However on occasions, such a girl went with me and had forgotten to take it out.

Brief look in Crazy House Tuesday night at 10 PM. I had already had a great sex session elsewhere, so wasn't specially horny. Line up was well below Saturday night standard. Probably best girls already BFed by that time. Anyway was too boring to stay when I have seen it much better. Best time to arrive at bars is 8:30 or 9PM.

No. 4 with a beautiful ass and good face was a little bit tempting. Small tits.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1654743]By "blow up" you appear to mean break the condom. Condoms break quite rarely if used properly and not deliberately broken. It should be a once per year event, or less.
[/QUOTE]I wondered about that too. Although I have broken a condom or two, I am guessing it has been at least twenty years since one broke.

I met a girl named Beem when I was in Bangkok last September. She was a SW working in front of the Starbucks on sukhumvit. Seemed to only to work before 3:00 pm. She is about 5'-2", tanned skin, tatoo on her left front hip, about a 6" vertical cesarean scar on her abdomen, smallish breasts and and a very pretty face. Not much of a description, I know, but if anybody can help me find her, I would be grateful. I know I should have got her phone #, but didn't think I was coming back to Bangkok.

[QUOTE=DRRonin;1654730]I remember a couple years ago when Thailand had all that flooding and many factories around the country were shut down for extended periods of time putting thousands of girls out of work, I was expecting to see a large surge of freelancers around town. Never happened.[/QUOTE]Many were busy trying to save their stuff, selves & others from the flooding. T'was a great time for mongering, though, as the regularly occuring problematic times in LOS tend to be, as the ratio of hobbyists to working girls was very favorable. Such times, as the low seasons also tend to be relative to the highs, make the girls more desperate & more appreciate of the clients that are available to them.

As they say, history repeats itself & Siam has a history of constantly recurring disasters in various ways. Add all the other factors such as third world poverty & odds are very high it will long remain a top of the world destination for getting fabulous bang for one's buck, as it has already for decades now.

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1654659]Well, I'm not sure where you're getting your facts, but please post them here. Here's a chart, readily available on the Internet, that is completely contrary to your assertion that the birth rate has remained constant.

[URL]http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?v=25&c=th&l=en[/URL]

As you can clearly see, it's been dropping steadily for the last decade.[/QUOTE]The url does not even show what the rate was for the years 2013 and 2014. And here is what I actually said, rather than your distortion:

The "Thai birth rate has not been declining nearly so much in recent years & has remained rather constant of late. Where it will go in the future, whether higher or lower, is unknown. ".

The chart shows exactly that, from 2010 to 2012, namely what I said above. From 2010 to 2011, for example, there was virtually no change at all. From 2011 to 2012 the drop was much less than almost every year since 2000. So you are simply wrong as to the facts, as shown by your own source. Your chart clearly shows the rate almost flat lining since 2010.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1654745]Brief look in Crazy House Tuesday night at 10 PM. I had already had a great sex session elsewhere, so wasn't specially horny. Line up was well below Saturday night standard. Probably best girls already BFed by that time. Anyway was too boring to stay when I have seen it much better. Best time to arrive at bars is 8:30 or 9PM.

No. 4 with a beautiful ass and good face was a little bit tempting. Small tits.[/QUOTE]Glad to hear your assessment as I was in Tuesday night around 9 pm for the first time in months and thought it was way below what it had been 6 months ago. Back then all the nudes were very nice but last night a few were very unattractive and only a couple looked good. Still better than Sharks and Suzy Wongs which I hit afterwards. I didn't even bother to finish my beer in either. When the show began at SW's and two Koreans started complaining to the service girl how bad the girls looked I knew it was time to head for the exit. Ended up at Mandarin upstairs at Nana Plaza. The dancers were mediocre but some of the coyotes were fine, one in particular was a knockout (to my taste). Service Girl told me some went and some didn't. Since this was 1:30 and she was still there my guess is the knockout doesn't.

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1654659]So, to summarize, there are fewer girls overall in the general population. Ipso facto, there will be fewer girls in the sex industry unless somebody has evidence that shows as the birth rate declines the percentage of females opting for sex work increases. As tourism increases there will inevitably be issues as demand outstrips supply. The scene has changed dramatically in the last 10 years. Given the above it will change even more dramatically in the next 10. There is no way Thailand will continue to be a "prime destination. " In fact, the argument can be made that it is no longer a prime destination, but that's for another thread and another day.[/QUOTE]This whole house of cards, from start to finish, falls with the erroneous statement in your first sentence.

"The population of Thailand is approximately 67.5 million people, with an annual growth rate of about 0. 3 percent. In addition to Thai, it includes ethnic Chinese, Malay, Lao, Burma, Cambodia, and Indians, among others. According to 2010 decennial census, it revealed a population of 65,981,600 (up from 60,916,441 in 2000)".

The statement also fails to take into account the declining death rate of female children, teens & adults due to advances in science & medicine as regards HIV, care at birth, etc. Greater problems with health can mean greater numbers of females who rule out sex work due to their conditions.

Moreover your comment doesn't consider that what is significant to the sex trade market in LOS, particularly to foreigners, is not so much the overall birth rate as the rate in certain areas from which the sex workers mostly come from, not, for examples, Bangkok or the Muslim dominated.

[QUOTE=Rjsss212;1654735]Tranquillo kimosabe, its not that serious.

Its no crime to fuck a woman who is in the country without papers. Many, many support staff in the LOS are illegals. Thais know it and are not raiding to catch them.

And we can all tell when a girls under 18.[/QUOTE]I have seen 20+ year old Chinese, Thai and Viet women that look like teenagers. In BKK, I like the option of taking them back to my hotel for LT and the hotel holds the girls I'd to check if she is old enough and to make sure we are safe. Then when the girls leaves in the morning they call you, or you call them, to release her I'd. The first time I felt a little embarrassed, but the people in the hotels know what we all do and frankly I like that process.

I do miss BKK, it has been nearly a year since my last visit. Checking these boards makes me want to return but I have been having fun in HK for a while.

A booming thai economy doesn't explain the lack of new girls prostituting themselves. Do these village girls all of a sudden have the education and skills to work for decent wages for a multi-national company.

It takes years for village people to become employable at even the median wages level.

[QUOTE=Rjsss212;1654735]And we can all tell when a girls under 18.[/QUOTE]I seriously doubt that. How can you tell for example when a girl is 16 or 17 and not 18?

15 and younger is usually quite obvious but it can be very hard to tell if a girl is 16,17, 18 or even 19 or 20.

If a girl has no ID AND she looks too young than it's simple: it's a NO NO.

If a girl has an ID that says she's 18+ but nevertheless she looks too young then it's getting difficult. The ID might be fake or borrowed from a sister or niece who has the same looks but is of legal age. Or the ID is genuine and the girl is of legal age.

[QUOTE=Mogwai;1654937]I seriously doubt that. [/QUOTE]Sorry, I meant to say most EXPERIENCED LOS mongers. Clearly we all need to comport ourselves within our own comfort level. If its that difficult for you and it matters that much then you are wise to err on the conservative side and I commend you on your restraint.

[QUOTE=Tombobb;1654763]I met a girl named Beem when I was in Bangkok last September. She was a SW working in front of the Starbucks on sukhumvit. Seemed to only to work before 3:00 pm. She is about 5'-2", tanned skin, tatoo on her left front hip, about a 6" vertical cesarean scar on her abdomen, smallish breasts and and a very pretty face.[/QUOTE]Generally the ladies tend to work the same area / time so their customers know where to find them, or spy them one day and select them the next. Maybe not every day but they rotate in. You might get lucky and she is still there. I have seen the same SW ladies sticking to their same lower Suk spots for years.

SunLover.

[QUOTE=Steve7777;1654935]A booming thai economy doesn't explain the lack of new girls prostituting themselves. Do these village girls all of a sudden have the education and skills to work for decent wages for a multi-national company.

It takes years for village people to become employable at even the median wages level.[/QUOTE]Steve, yes it does. A gal can get a job in a restaurant and make a living now.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1654916]This whole house of cards, from start to finish, falls with the erroneous statement in your first sentence.

"The population of Thailand is approximately 67.5 million people, with an annual growth rate of about 0. 3 percent. In addition to Thai, it includes ethnic Chinese, Malay, Lao, Burma, Cambodia, and Indians, among others. According to 2010 decennial census, it revealed a population of 65,981,600 (up from 60,916,441 in 2000)".

The statement also fails to take into account the declining death rate of female children, teens & adults due to advances in science & medicine as regards HIV, care at birth, etc. Greater problems with health can mean greater numbers of females who rule out sex work due to their conditions.

Moreover your comment doesn't consider that what is significant to the sex trade market in LOS, particularly to foreigners, is not so much the overall birth rate as the rate in certain areas from which the sex workers mostly come from, not, for examples, Bangkok or the Muslim dominated.[/QUOTE]Sigh. Google Thailand population pyramid and you will see that it inverted in 97. This is an aging population. The birth rate has been declining for years. In less than 40 years the country will have twice the number of seniors than it has kids.

Also, have you been to Isaan lately? Do you have any idea how fast it is developing? Seen what land values have done in the last 5 years in the North East? Kids are starting to stay put in provinces like KK and Udon because there is far more opportunity.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1654885]The url does not even show what the rate was for the years 2013 and 2014. And here is what I actually said, rather than your distortion:

The "Thai birth rate has not been declining nearly so much in recent years & has remained rather constant of late. Where it will go in the future, whether higher or lower, is unknown. ".

The chart shows exactly that, from 2010 to 2012, namely what I said above. From 2010 to 2011, for example, there was virtually no change at all. From 2011 to 2012 the drop was much less than almost every year since 2000. So you are simply wrong as to the facts, as shown by your own source. Your chart clearly shows the rate almost flat lining since 2010.[/QUOTE]Its declining. People are living longer. It is an aging society.

[QUOTE=Tombobb;1654763]I met a girl named Beem when I was in Bangkok last September. She was a SW working in front of the Starbucks on sukhumvit. Seemed to only to work before 3:00 pm. She is about 5'-2", tanned skin, tatoo on her left front hip, about a 6" vertical cesarean scar on her abdomen, smallish breasts and and a very pretty face. [/QUOTE]As others pointed out, some freelancers keep up their habits (time / place of work) for years. Even if that's not the case, the lower Sukhumvit red light zone is not that large and the number of venues is finite. If you take a few days to snoop around, you might find her, if indeed she's still working. Do you have her photo by any chance? Might help if you intend to ask around (although the outcome of doing that is unpredictable).

[QUOTE=Tombobb;1654763]I met a girl named Beem when I was in Bangkok last September. She was a SW working in front of the Starbucks on sukhumvit. Seemed to only to work before 3:00 pm. She is about 5'-2", tanned skin, tatoo on her left front hip, about a 6" vertical cesarean scar on her abdomen, smallish breasts and and a very pretty face. Not much of a description, I know, but if anybody can help me find her, I would be grateful. I know I should have got her phone #, but didn't think I was coming back to Bangkok.[/QUOTE]Several of us were reminiscing last night about Chong Ping and Dongguan before the crackdown. Almost none of the WGs there were mothers. Why? Because the Chinese guys would not take gals with baby drag on them. Sure wish it was that way here in LOS. Never has been sadly.

I was wondering what percentage of (mongering) farangs come to LOS from different countries? USA and Europe vs lets say from UK and Australia etc?

Does anyone have any idea?

[QUOTE=Rjsss212;1654953]Sorry, I meant to say most EXPERIENCED LOS mongers. Clearly we all need to comport ourselves within our own comfort level. If its that difficult for you and it matters that much then you are wise to err on the conservative side and I commend you on your restraint.[/QUOTE]I am an experienced LOS and other SE Asian countries monger, LOL!

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1655139]Several of us were reminiscing last night about Chong Ping and Dongguan before the crackdown. Almost none of the WGs there were mothers. Why? Because the Chinese guys would not take gals with baby drag on them. Sure wish it was that way here in LOS. Never has been sadly.[/QUOTE]I heard about Chang Ping and Dongguan and the crackdown. Are those places still worth visiting post crackdown or is there not enough action there now?

A real crackdown could happen in Thailand but I think we are a decade or two from seeing it.

[QUOTE=Allover;1655205]I heard about Chang Ping and Dongguan and the crackdown. Are those places still worth visiting post crackdown or is there not enough action there now?

A real crackdown could happen in Thailand but I think we are a decade or two from seeing it.[/QUOTE]From what I hear it ain't like it was. Might not ever be again. Korea used to have one of the most vibrant scenes in Asia. New Years Day before the olympics they swooped in and shut it all down. The Mayor of Manila closed most of the naughty bars in Manila. It is a shadow of its former self. So will it happen in BKK? One would think at some point it will. But when? That is the question isn't it!

[QUOTE=Margaya;1655152]I was wondering what percentage of (mongering) farangs come to LOS from different countries? USA and Europe vs lets say from UK and Australia etc?

Does anyone have any idea?[/QUOTE]No idea, but there are fewer and fewer Western mongers and more and more Asian mongers. Woe is the day when the Chinese dudes come en masse. It will happen, especially since China is cracking down on the P4 P industry.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1655222]No idea, but there are fewer and fewer Western mongers and more and more Asian mongers. Woe is the day when the Chinese dudes come en masse. It will happen, especially since China is cracking down on the P4 P industry.[/QUOTE]From 2006 to 2013 the top 6 Western countries all increased their numbers. Australia & France roughly doubled their arrivals to LOS.

[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Thailand[/URL]

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1655221]From what I hear it ain't like it was. Might not ever be again. Korea used to have one of the most vibrant scenes in Asia. New Years Day before the olympics they swooped in and shut it all down. The Mayor of Manila closed most of the naughty bars in Manila. It is a shadow of its former self. So will it happen in BKK? One would think at some point it will. But when? That is the question isn't it![/QUOTE]The difference between China, Korea, PI & LOS is in the first three prostitution is illegal while in LOS it is legal. Earlier this month in Canada, BTW, it became illegal to buy sex. Before that it was legal. So expect even more Canadians to travel abroad for their fun.

Unlike expensive first world South Korea, LOS is a very poor country & third world. Like Japan the sex industry there is rather closed to foreigners. So for a number of reasons South Korea is not appealing to the multitudes of hobbyists looking for value & bang for their buck. But Thailand is, has been for a very long time & should continue to be.

According to the following opinion South Korea has the second most PFP gals per capita than anywhere in the world.

[URL]http://globaldiscussion.net/topic/1442-countries-with-the-most-prostitutes/[/URL]

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1655032]People are living longer. It is an aging society.[/QUOTE]There are a lot of aging countries around the world. It is quite common. People live longer in a millennium of vastly superior medical care. Therefore prostitutes can stay healthy & in the business much longer. Thus there is less turnover & less need for it or replacements. They can cater to the aging populations who tend to have more disposable cash.

I was in Hanoi recently. It is not an aging but very young city. It is also poorer than Bangkok, cheaper for foreigners to live or visit & has more beautiful ladies. In spite of all that, it is in the peewee leagues of PFP, so has no chance of competing with professional major league destinations in Siam. Vietnam is like travelling by foot while the Kingdom goes at warp speed. The chance of Vietnam catching up to Thailand in this business in the next decade is yours of winning a huge lottery payout. Even if today all ladies in Bangkok were over 40 years of age, Vietnam would still be far less than half of what BKK would be.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1655028]Steve, yes it does. A gal can get a job in a restaurant and make a living now.[/QUOTE]I am rather mystified by people who just can't accept not only what their eyes tell them but what the facts tell them. They must be Republicans!

Its all changing here and changing quickly. We have seen as countries advance economically the scene both diminishes and the prices increase. It happened in Japan and Korea. It will happen here. Its happening already. When I first started coming here 20 years ago it was as likely that a working girl was from down south or the Chiang mai area or from Bangkok as she was from Issan. As those areas prospered over the years the working girls from those areas dried up. I would guess today that at least in the venues of gogos and fls, 95% of the girls are from Issan. Issan is now slowly (due to some degree to the hated Thaksin policies and also to the money pouring in from Issan people who work in Bangkok) also advancing economically. Thus their numbers are also diminishing and pricing is going up. This combined with demographics, westernization, a better educational system and social media have created a trend that is not likely to turn around unless something dramatically bad crashes the economy. As prices continue to increase mongers will slowly fade away when their cost threshold is reached. We all have one. That will change the scene even more and will continue to effect the number of girls in the business.

I don't think the Chinese will ever come here in masses for mongering. At least I hope not. The customers effected by the crackdown in Dongguan were mainly Hong Kong Chinese. My guess is that most local towns and cities have plenty of girls available for the locals and if it is like Dongguan they are both cheaper and better looking than their Thai working sisters.

[QUOTE=DRRonin;1655278]I am rather mystified by people who just can't accept not only what their eyes tell them but what the facts tell them. They must be Republicans!

Its all changing here and changing quickly. We have seen as countries advance economically the scene both diminishes and the prices increase. It happened in Japan and Korea. It will happen here. Its happening already. When I first started coming here 20 years ago it was as likely that a working girl was from down south or the Chiang mai area or from Bangkok as she was from Issan. As those areas prospered over the years the working girls from those areas dried up. I would guess today that at least in the venues of gogos and fls, 95% of the girls are from Issan. Issan is now slowly (due to some degree to the hated Thaksin policies and also to the money pouring in from Issan people who work in Bangkok) also advancing economically. Thus their numbers are also diminishing and pricing is going up. This combined with demographics, westernization, a better educational system and social media have created a trend that is not likely to turn around unless something dramatically bad crashes the economy. As prices continue to increase mongers will slowly fade away when their cost threshold is reached. We all have one. That will change the scene even more and will continue to effect the number of girls in the business.
[/QUOTE]I agree to an extent although with couple of caveats that may or may not be legitimate. Forgetting about the fact the baht is stronger against the dollar than it was when I first visited Thailand about twelve years ago, prices haven't gone up that much although long-time at go-gos has become disfavored among many girls and therefore the price for [I]that[/I] has increased more than for other options. The oil massage places most frequented by those on this forum charge exactly what they have for about a decade, with the exception of Bamboo's 500 baht anal surcharge and extra 100 baht for a session. Barons, then Tulip, and then Snow White, Mango, and Cherry have remained the same price for ages. And for those establishments as well as the go-go's I wonder whether the mantra the girls don't look as good as they used to reflects more that many of us have become rather jaded by now. I look at the pictures of the girls I took at the oilies 10 years ago, and then compare them to those today, and frankly don't see much, if any, quality difference. Similarly, although I find the majority of the go-go girls unattractive now, I always have although might have been satisfied to pull a girl who was not so attractive when the Bangkok scene was new to me (and my testosterone level a bit higher) while I am less inclined to do so now.

As to prices, ten years ago short-time at a go-go was 1500 baht, now it is 2000 (although I am hearing some are now getting 2500). The increase is probably less than the overall inflation rate over that period of time. Prices at the soapies have increased, but places like Nataree haven't increased [I]that[/I] much over the last decade, again forgetting about the value of the baht.

Yes, eventually things may deteriorate in the P4P scene more significantly as the economic situation continues to improve (assuming it does; let's see what kind of turmoil breaks out when the King dies, e. g. , and whether that will be the straw that breaks the Thai economy's back), but so far it hasn't been too bad IMHO, certainly not like Brazil which has gotten out of reach for many mongers both in terms of the P4P pricing and overall costs of a vacation (hotel, food, etc.).

For me what makes the P4 P scene seem a bit expensive in Bangkok is not so much any increases in pricing, rather it is I spend a lot of time in Jakarta where there still are bargains to be found. But as time goes on, the Jakarta scene may also start feeling the effects of economic progress (or more depressingly, the effects of what seems like an increased level of Muslim fundamentalism in Indonesia).

[QUOTE=LAGuy5;1655286]I agree to an extent although with couple of caveats that may or may not be legitimate. Forgetting about the fact the baht is stronger against the dollar than it was when I first visited Thailand about twelve years ago, prices haven't gone up that much although long-time at go-gos has become disfavored among many girls and therefore the price for [I]that[/I] has increased more than for other options. The oil massage places most frequented by those on this forum charge exactly what they have for about a decade, with the exception of Bamboo's 500 baht anal surcharge and extra 100 baht for a session. Barons, then Tulip, and then Snow White, Mango, and Cherry have remained the same price for ages. And for those establishments as well as the go-go's I wonder whether the mantra the girls don't look as good as they used to reflects more that many of us have become rather jaded by now. I look at the pictures of the girls I took at the oilies 10 years ago, and then compare them to those today, and frankly don't see much, if any, quality difference. Similarly, although I find the majority of the go-go girls unattractive now, I always have although might have been satisfied to pull a girl who was not so attractive when the Bangkok scene was new to me (and my testosterone level a bit higher) while I am less inclined to do so now.

As to prices, ten years ago short-time at a go-go was 1500 baht, now it is 2000 (although I am hearing some are now getting 2500). The increase is probably less than the overall inflation rate over that period of time. Prices at the soapies have increased, but places like Nataree haven't increased [I]that[/I] much over the last decade, again forgetting about the value of the baht.

Yes, eventually things may deteriorate in the P4P scene more significantly as the economic situation continues to improve (assuming it does; let's see what kind of turmoil breaks out when the King dies, e. g. , and whether that will be the straw that breaks the Thai economy's back), but so far it hasn't been too bad IMHO, certainly not like Brazil which has gotten out of reach for many mongers both in terms of the P4P pricing and overall costs of a vacation (hotel, food, etc.).

For me what makes the P4 P scene seem a bit expensive in Bangkok is not so much any increases in pricing, rather it is I spend a lot of time in Jakarta where there still are bargains to be found. But as time goes on, the Jakarta scene may also start feeling the effects of economic progress (or more depressingly, the effects of what seems like an increased level of Muslim fundamentalism in Indonesia).[/QUOTE]Could we bump this discussion to the general thread please? As far as I know the Bangkok thread is for posting mongering reports in Bangkok, and the general thread is for discussions like what you guys are talking about here. I would like to recommend to all mongers to start and use services like We Chat, Skout, Tango, and Badoo. Thai girls are moving away from surfing the net on a computer or notebooks. The mobile internet is where it's at here. These services have location based searches and many of the girls are looking for pay for play but you can even find freebies. Search and chat, you have nothing to lose. Recently you can read about my report of finding extremely good ladies working in the massage parlours on we chat. Shop before you go in. Saves you walking to all the shops and striking deals for services. If you can do it beforehand it will save you aggravation in the shop. Freebies are well worth the time of searching. One of these cuties I spent 7 days with fucking and sucking. I suggest ditch the Thai friendlies, Date in Asia's, Thai Cupids, and son on. These are all just a waste of time. The naked girl in the picture is a 23 year old student. She agreed to come to my condo dressed in her students uniform. The real sexy one with the short black skirt and the tight white collar shirt. We had a 2 hour session and she asked for only taxi and 1000 THB. I gave her 2000, it was well worth it. So a mix of freebies and pay for play. Who needs the dating sites now! If you look in the photo gallery you will see two young and beautiful and sexy girls who all came from these mobile app based services. Happy mongering guys and feel free to PM over the weekend. I'm on a four day holiday of getting into trouble and I will be moving to Pattaya for the weekend if anyone wants to meet up. We chat will be my best friend this weekend and it already was today.

[QUOTE=DRRonin;1655278]As prices continue to increase mongers will slowly fade away when their cost threshold is reached. We all have one. That will change the scene even more and will continue to effect the number of girls in the business.
I don't think the Chinese will ever come here in masses for mongering. [/QUOTE]The laws of economics dictate that at some point higher prices will affect demand, but of all the labor markets in the world, P4 P is the most ineleastic because it offers few substitutes and men NEED to get laid. Thus, "if the labor demand curve is very inelastic (steep), an increase in wages (prices) will have a very small negative effect on the quantity of labor employed (demand for girls) and will have a very large positive effect on total labour income. The elasticity of the labor demand curve depends on the size of the substitution and scale effects. ".

In other words, where you going to go? Prices for play are going up in every Asian and South American watering hole. Thailand is not unique in this. I believe the price increase is mainly due to increased demand and because the suppliers understand they can get away with it. The supply of girls is also a factor in Thailand for sure, but I don't think it is the dominant one. Prices are on the rise in AC, Philippines and Jakarta, Indonesia too for example. The question is: how high can prices go before it has a dramatic impact on demand? And the answer is I do not know. So far demand for girls in Thailand AND the Philippines has continued to increase despite the increases in prices and in the case of the PI the continued increase in supply of girls into the P4 P labor market. This is a clear sign of inelastic demand. Do you want to see the future? Take a look at Macau. Sauna prices are sky high. A session with a model category Chinese girl at Rio costs just under $300 US and yet there are still plenty of mostly Northern Asian customers. I firmly believe only a world wide depression will change the dynamics at play here and around the world. Price is going up everywhere. Save your money and pay up or marry a local beeitch in your home country and be unhappy.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1655260]The difference between China, Korea, PI & LOS is in the first three prostitution is illegal while in LOS it is legal. ...........[/QUOTE]Prostitution is not legal in LOS. It's just that the laws are not enforced.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;1655330]The laws of economics dictate that at some point higher prices will affect demand, but of all the labor markets in the world, P4P is the most ineleastic because it offers few substitutes and men NEED to get laid. [/QUOTE]

Demand for P4P is not as inelastic as you think. It's not healthcare, where you have to pay what is charged or die. Men may well have a strong urge to get laid, but triple the prices, and there will be much fewer tourists going to Pattaya twice a year getting laid 3 times per day, or sexpats geting laid twice a week. Instead, they'll sharply reduce consumption, as they do in western countries.

Prices are only one factor making Thailand a favored P4P destination. Other factors are wide availability, the fun scene, good service and the unique open-ended GFE arrangements. All are going down the drain, and might be mostly gone within a few years. There are places where P4P is cheaper than Thailand, but few people travel there for sex.

Guys, with all due respect. If one opens the photo thread and does not see photos, what's the point? If one opens the Bangkok reports thread and reads debates about population ratio and not mongering in BKK, what's the point? Bump this topic please and thanks. Anyways, after my adventure today at Boss massage I walked by the shop beside Boss amd wow! Many younger girls 23-25 were all dressed in the sexy Thai school girl uniforms. Next on my list when I return on Monday for sure! I think I will pass by Climax tonight amd grab a BKK FL before my Pattaya trip. Love this place. Always a great selection of hotties amd the staff are great. Would recommend it to all who want to pick up FL pay for play. Last time I was there I found such an adorable cute pie, 24 years old. Took her back to my place and she was trying to blow me in the taxi. It took all my strength to hold her off until I reached my place. Ok reports will come on Monday and I hope to have some new photos as well.

[QUOTE=Bkkdog;1655358]Guys, with all due respect. If one opens the photo thread and does not see photos, what's the point? If one opens the Bangkok reports thread and reads debates about population ratio and not mongering in BKK, what's the point? Bump this topic please and thanks. Anyways, after my adventure today at Boss massage I walked by the shop beside Boss amd wow! Many younger girls 23-25 were all dressed in the sexy Thai school girl uniforms. Next on my list when I return on Monday for sure! I think I will pass by Climax tonight amd grab a BKK FL before my Pattaya trip. Love this place. Always a great selection of hotties amd the staff are great. Would recommend it to all who want to pick up FL pay for play. Last time I was there I found such an adorable cute pie, 24 years old. Took her back to my place and she was trying to blow me in the taxi. It took all my strength to hold her off until I reached my place. Ok reports will come on Monday and I hope to have some new photos as well.[/QUOTE]If you head to Climax, please give an update on the rates. Last I went in there, all of the three stunners I could spot barked out outrageous sums. ST at 3000 and LT at 5000! I decided not to take anyone instead took a SW. I do hope some kind of pricing logic returns to Climax, if at all there was any.

[QUOTE=Duniawala;1655335]Prostitution is not legal in LOS. It's just that the laws are not enforced.[/QUOTE]This has been discussed at length before if you care to search the forum, complete with quotes, references & links to the penal code itself. There's also this more recent post by a lawyer:

[QUOTE=Wolvenvacht;1639044]OMB! How many times does it have to be repeated? Prostitution is NOT illegal in Thailand. Certain elements that go together with some forms of prostitution (but not prostitution itself) are punishable (many have only very low fines), such as soliciting on the street, creating a nuisance, pimping, under-age sex, . . .

And the "buyer" side of the business is totally legal, as young as you respect the age limits.[/QUOTE]Or you could simply refer to Wikipedia which formerly said it was illegal in its opening statement, but no more:

"Prostitution is not strictly illegal in Thailand, though solicitation and public nuisance laws are in effect".

[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Thailand[/URL]

Not illegal. End of story.

[blue][Deleted by Admin][/blue]

[u][b]EDITOR's NOTE[/b][/u]: [blue]This report was edited or deleted because the writing was so bad that the report was nearly [u]impossible to comprehend[/u].[/blue]

The generally acceptable and reasonable rates are 2,500 B (ST) and 4,000 B (LT).

If you need something special, buy a drink for the waiter. He will point you in the right direction.

I was in BKK two weeks ago and stayed there for one week. Went to Climax 3 times and the waiter would take me around, would introduce me to about 5/6 girls, and then I will come back. Three months ago, I met a 24 YO Colombian girl in Cancun. She was great to be with! When she found out that I was going to BKK, she showed very high interest. I got an airline ticket for her. She enjoys watching her partner having sex a girl and I enjoyed watching her with another girl. After the waiter would show me the girls, I would come back, take her around and show her the girls. I preferred young girls with cute faces, but she preferred ones with curvy body. We would pick the mutually agreed girl, drink a lot, dance a lot, and the money part never came up. Twice, we picked one girl and once, we picked two girls. Two stayed ST and two stayed LT. I gave each one the amount as I stated above. None ever counted the money!

Two things I want to mention that I do not think, on this board, I ever came across!

1. TOO MUCH SEX CAN CAUSE UTI: Just an hour before leaving, I felt lots of pain in my testicles and bladder. Went to Pharmacist, told her everything, and she gave me Cipro. Along with some pain killer. Back home, I went for tests, and it came out UTI. This E Coli bacteria is not only resistant to Cipro but also to several other antibiotics. I am 56 YO!

2. On all of my trips, I always keep my webcam on. Using Picasa3. I place a black electrical tape on the light and no one can notice the webcam on. 24 hour video takes only 4-6 GB space. Any laptop contains that much space to manage one week worth of trip video. In case of any mishap, I can go back and check the video. Luckily, no mishap happened ever. On the other hand, I always came home with a nice sex video.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1655260]The difference between China, Korea, PI & LOS is in the first three prostitution is illegal while in LOS it is legal. Earlier this month in Canada, BTW, it became illegal to buy sex. Before that it was legal. So expect even more Canadians to travel abroad for their fun.

Unlike expensive first world South Korea, LOS is a very poor country & third world. Like Japan the sex industry there is rather closed to foreigners. So for a number of reasons South Korea is not appealing to the multitudes of hobbyists looking for value & bang for their buck. But Thailand is, has been for a very long time & should continue to be.

According to the following opinion South Korea has the second most PFP gals per capita than anywhere in the world.

[URL]http://globaldiscussion.net/topic/1442-countries-with-the-most-prostitutes/[/URL][/QUOTE]Korea's P4 P was very open to foreigners before the olympics. It was the foreign scene they cracked down upon, not the local scene. If a widespread crackdown occurs here, I suspect it will be the same. Korea was a developing country at one point as well.

[QUOTE=Duniawala;1655335]Prostitution is not legal in LOS. It's just that the laws are not enforced.[/QUOTE]It actually is legal, but all forms of solicitation are not. And the definition of solicitation can be interpreted in different ways depending on what suits the boys in brown that day.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1655249]From 2006 to 2013 the top 6 Western countries all increased their numbers. Australia & France roughly doubled their arrivals to LOS.

[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Thailand[/URL][/QUOTE]Dude, most of those are folks seeking a cheap beach holiday, not mongers. Have you seen all the fat Western women here these days?

[QUOTE=Bkkdog;1655308]Could we bump this discussion to the general thread please? As far as I know the Bangkok thread is for posting mongering reports in Bangkok, and the general thread is for discussions like what you guys are talking about here. I would like to recommend to all mongers to start and use services like We Chat, Skout, Tango, and Badoo. Thai girls are moving away from surfing the net on a computer or notebooks. The mobile internet is where it's at here. These services have location based searches and many of the girls are looking for pay for play but you can even find freebies. Search and chat, you have nothing to lose. Recently you can read about my report of finding extremely good ladies working in the massage parlours on we chat. Shop before you go in. Saves you walking to all the shops and striking deals for services. If you can do it beforehand it will save you aggravation in the shop. Freebies are well worth the time of searching. One of these cuties I spent 7 days with fucking and sucking. I suggest ditch the Thai friendlies, Date in Asia's, Thai Cupids, and son on. These are all just a waste of time. The naked girl in the picture is a 23 year old student. She agreed to come to my condo dressed in her students uniform. The real sexy one with the short black skirt and the tight white collar shirt. We had a 2 hour session and she asked for only taxi and 1000 THB. I gave her 2000, it was well worth it. So a mix of freebies and pay for play. Who needs the dating sites now! If you look in the photo gallery you will see two young and beautiful and sexy girls who all came from these mobile app based services. Happy mongering guys and feel free to PM over the weekend. I'm on a four day holiday of getting into trouble and I will be moving to Pattaya for the weekend if anyone wants to meet up. We chat will be my best friend this weekend and it already was today.[/QUOTE]Sounds good, but also sounds like a lot of effort!

The generally acceptable and reasonable rates are 2,500 B (ST) and 4,000 B (LT).

If you need something special, buy a drink for the waiter. He will point you in the right direction.

I was in BKK two weeks ago and stayed there for one week. Went to Climax 3 times and the waiter would take me around, would introduce me to about 5/6 girls, and then I will come back. Three months ago, I met a 24 YO Colombian girl in Cancun. She was great to be with! When she found out that I was going to BKK, she showed very high interest. I got an airline ticket for her. She enjoys watching her partner having sex a girl and I enjoyed watching her with another girl. After the waiter would show me the girls, I would come back, take her around and show her the girls. I preferred young girls with cute faces, but she preferred ones with curvy body. We would pick the mutually agreed girl, drink a lot, dance a lot, and the money part never came up. Twice, we picked one girl and once, we picked two girls. Two stayed ST and two stayed LT. I gave each one the amount as I stated above. None ever counted the money!

Two things I want to mention that I do not think, on this board, I ever came across!

1. TOO MUCH SEX CAN CAUSE UTI: Just an hour before leaving, I felt lots of pain in my testicles and bladder. Went to Pharmacist, told her everything, and she gave me Cipro. Along with some pain killer. Back home, I went for tests, and it came out UTI. This E Coli bacteria is not only resistant to Cipro but also to several other antibiotics. I am 56 YO!

2. On all of my trips, I always keep my webcam on. Using Picasa3. I place a black electrical tape on the light and no one can notice the webcam on. 24 hour video takes only 4-6 GB space. Any laptop contains that much space to manage one week worth of trip video. In case of any mishap, I can go back and check the video. Luckily, no mishap happened ever. On the other hand, I always came home with a nice sex video.

[QUOTE=Bkkdog;1655308]Could we bump this discussion to the general thread please? As far as I know the Bangkok thread is for posting mongering reports in Bangkok, and the general thread is for discussions like what you guys are talking about here. I would like to recommend to all mongers to start and use services like We Chat, Skout, Tango, and Badoo. Thai girls are moving away from surfing the net on a computer or notebooks. The mobile internet is where it's at here. These services have location based searches and many of the girls are looking for pay for play but you can even find freebies. Search and chat, you have nothing to lose. Recently you can read about my report of finding extremely good ladies working in the massage parlours on we chat. Shop before you go in. Saves you walking to all the shops and striking deals for services. If you can do it beforehand it will save you aggravation in the shop. Freebies are well worth the time of searching. One of these cuties I spent 7 days with fucking and sucking. I suggest ditch the Thai friendlies, Date in Asia's, Thai Cupids, and son on. These are all just a waste of time. The naked girl in the picture is a 23 year old student. She agreed to come to my condo dressed in her students uniform. The real sexy one with the short black skirt and the tight white collar shirt. We had a 2 hour session and she asked for only taxi and 1000 THB. I gave her 2000, it was well worth it. So a mix of freebies and pay for play. Who needs the dating sites now! If you look in the photo gallery you will see two young and beautiful and sexy girls who all came from these mobile app based services. Happy mongering guys and feel free to PM over the weekend. I'm on a four day holiday of getting into trouble and I will be moving to Pattaya for the weekend if anyone wants to meet up. We chat will be my best friend this weekend and it already was today.[/QUOTE]Yes it is just terrible that I had the audacity to post a report about the pricing of the oilies in Bangkok, the soapies in Bangkok, and the go-gos in Bangkok as well as the quality of the girls in Bangkok in the Bangkok thread. I should have known the Bangkok thread is for posts about We Chat, Skout, Tango, and Badoo. My bad.

[QUOTE=ActionOriented;1655373]If you head to Climax, please give an update on the rates. Last I went in there, all of the three stunners I could spot barked out outrageous sums. ST at 3000 and LT at 5000! I decided not to take anyone instead took a SW. I do hope some kind of pricing logic returns to Climax, if at all there was any.[/QUOTE]I was in Climax Mon & Tue nights of this week, on both nights I paid 3 k LT. However on both occasions the girl left quite early, about 8 am. I was staying President Palace on Soi11 so Climax was convenient. I also checked out Insomnia but no girls took my fancy there.

[QUOTE=ActionOriented;1655373]If you head to Climax, please give an update on the rates. Last I went in there, all of the three stunners I could spot barked out outrageous sums. ST at 3000 and LT at 5000! I decided not to take anyone instead took a SW. I do hope some kind of pricing logic returns to Climax, if at all there was any.[/QUOTE]I was last week 1 evening in Climax. I toke a girl back to my hotel LT. She asked 2500 be Body was fine, no kids. Face was so so.

But she was fun. Little crazy in the head. Maybe on drugs, who knows. She stayed till 3 pm. So really LT!

Her name was May. 22 yo.

I came in quit late, around midnight. Many girls already drunk, quite a seedy atmosphere in my opinion.

Also few real stunners, more girl next door types and most girls older 30-35. Probably with kiddies.

What's a good time to hit the club's for FL?

[QUOTE=Mac75;1655490]I was in Climax Mon & Tue nights of this week, on both nights I paid 3 k LT. However on both occasions the girl left quite early, about 8 am. I was staying President Palace on Soi11 so Climax was convenient. I also checked out Insomnia but no girls took my fancy there.[/QUOTE]

Anyone know who the fat guy is that sits just before the entrance.

[QUOTE=LAGuy5;1655482]Yes it is just terrible that I had the audacity to post a report about the pricing of the oilies in Bangkok, the soapies in Bangkok, and the go-gos in Bangkok as well as the quality of the girls in Bangkok in the Bangkok thread. I should have known the Bangkok thread is for posts about We Chat, Skout, Tango, and Badoo. My bad.[/QUOTE]Shame on me for wanting the forum to contain reports instead of debating about the prices, population ratios and so on. Sorry for complaining but I always try to include some kind of report of my actual mongering activities in the Bangkok thread. Pricing has been debated and discussed time and time again. Sorry but this is my wish for the forum. I hope more of us could try and respect the forum organization. It will only make this a better place to pull information from. More discussion based topics In my mind should be in the general thread. I mean no disrespect and sorry if I offended you my fellow ISG Brother. Happy mongering. At risk of contradicting myself I will get back to my climax girl who is now waking up for her morning session. Peace out!

Climax remains just an after hours place. Like Thermae used to be years ago so Climax is now.

Its not some wonder place where good girls go to be bad. Its the place where the whole of Sukhumvits P4 P girls go if they want extra money.

So when the massage places, bars, karaoke places all shut down for the night so the amount of girls in Climax goes up.

They know this is desperation central for lots of tourists / mongers, late at night, looking for sex, bars closing. Last chance of the night to find something if they do not want to go back to their room with only their right hand as company. So they will ask for higher than they were getting paid for sex earlier in the day at their normal places.

2000 baht short time (or overnight if she wants to sleep and go home in the morning) is all you should be paying. They should not get any extra for just sleeping in a nice AC room with a nice bed and then leaving in the morning.

Talking of Bangkok girls and over expectation and overcharging. This is a very true read.

[URL]http://singlemansparadise.com/why-im-tired-of-dating-bangkok-girls/[/URL]

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1655406]Korea's P4 P was very open to foreigners before the olympics. It was the foreign scene they cracked down upon, not the local scene. If a widespread crackdown occurs here, I suspect it will be the same. Korea was a developing country at one point as well.[/QUOTE]Yea that was the good old days before the O Games! I took my last trip in May of 1986, because my cousin from H. K. Said it will never be the same. But I never miss Korea, I never really care for the women or men in particular and that is in general.

I had much better times in China before it open up and haven't been inside China since the O-Games but I heard in general too that after the O-games it is not the same?

[QUOTE=JusRide;1655512]What's a good time to hit the club's for FL?[/QUOTE]I'd say from 11 pm onwards, pretty quiet before then.

I tried Dr. BJ Naru for the first time Wednesday, early around 1130 am. I was walking by and decided to try it. Only had 3 girls but all for good. I choose 36, Aeye, and had a great.

Time. I think for 2000 bt its not bad for a go to place. Might stop by today also.

Yesterday from the BTS platform I saw one of the girls walking out to the street and she still had her number on. She was kinda thick but I got to go back for that. I would go back there than rather waste my time at Annies again.

Location Soi 7 alley right next to BTS Nana.

[QUOTE=JokerInter;1655521]Anyone know who the fat guy is that sits just before the entrance.[/QUOTE]I have wondered that as well. I have seen the fat dude every time I have visited, he sits near the entrance having beer and chatting up the waitresses and the security guy, never seen him inside Bacarra though. Perhaps he has got bored with time.

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;1655534]Yea that was the good old days before the O Games! I took my last trip in May of 1986, because my cousin from H. K. Said it will never be the same. But I never miss Korea, I never really care for the women or men in particular and that is in general.

I had much better times in China before it open up and haven't been inside China since the O-Games but I heard in general too that after the O-games it is not the same?[/QUOTE]Last year China cracked down on Chong Ping and Dongguan. Very little left there. Wonder why these nations have become so anti-woman?

[QUOTE=ActionOriented;1655554]I have wondered that as well. I have seen the fat dude every time I have visited, he sits near the entrance having beer and chatting up the waitresses and the security guy, never seen him inside Bacarra though. Perhaps he has got bored with time.[/QUOTE]He tried to get me to buy a beer once before so that I could go in. I wonder if he is some kind of man waitress who gets tips when people buy drinks. Saw him there the other day.

I sat outside on purpose to observe his actions while I had some beers. Seems as though he approves the guest going to the bouncer at the door. They both got some scam going.

On. Sometimes observing other people is more interesting than listen to the girls try to hustle you. Anyway. Bangkok what a place.

I have often found myself going to afterskool on Soi cowboy. Beers are not bad compared to other GoGo's and you can have alot of finger play with the girls.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1655557]Last year China cracked down on Chong Ping and Dongguan. Very little left there. Wonder why these nations have become so anti-woman?[/QUOTE]I remember going to Shenzhen (Lo Wu?) from H. K. On the Train late 80's - 90's and when I got off there barely was a station. Going through Immigration it was scary the soldiers stared at us and when the guy saw my passport he threw it back at me. I stuck to my cousin from H. K. Who spoke the language like white on rice. The roads weren't even paved instead it was all dirt and mud. The buses were all run down no A/C there were cars on the road you could see were stolen from the States they still had California plates on them. We basically went there to find girls who register with Marriage agencies for foreigner. We pick them out of a book a few minutes later they showed up and we go out for dinner and had sex later it was cheap and easy. Today you get the same thing on the computer. Each year I went back the place got bigger and bigger so we move to the next town called something like Bogut? It was a small town that my cousin knew the Governor, Mayor, Chief of police, etc. They had one hotel only and we went to hair salons to pick up girls and told them to meet us for dinner with the Governor, Mayor etc. After we went drinking and back to the hotel. Once a girl came back to the hotel and said she couldn't stay she was all nervous and stuff I couldn't understand but found out later the Hotel was to be raided? But then when leaving she ran into the Chief of Police who we had dinner earlier and he told her nothing to worry about. First time, the Chief picked us up with a old Volks Fox. Year after year I visited his car got better and the last time it was a Benz. Year after year it got better those were the good old days not sure what it is like now?

Has anyone tried the Bangkok Gold escort service? They seem to have pretty girls in their lineup atleast on their gallery page. I am thinking of trying one. In case anyone has a better suggestion please let me know. I am looking for overnight option.

Cheers. MG.

[QUOTE=MumbaiGuy;1655628]Has anyone tried the Bangkok Gold escort service? They seem to have pretty girls in their lineup atleast on their gallery page. I am thinking of trying one. In case anyone has a better suggestion please let me know. I am looking for overnight option.

Cheers. MG.[/QUOTE]There is an Escorts thread.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;1655330]The laws of economics dictate that at some point higher prices will affect demand, but of all the labor markets in the world, P4 P is the most ineleastic because it offers few substitutes and men NEED to get laid. Thus, "if the labor demand curve is very inelastic (steep), an increase in wages (prices) will have a very small negative effect on the quantity of labor employed (demand for girls) and will have a very large positive effect on total labour income. The elasticity of the labor demand curve depends on the size of the substitution and scale effects. ".

In other words, where you going to go? Prices for play are going up in every Asian and South American watering hole. Thailand is not unique in this. I believe the price increase is mainly due to increased demand and because the suppliers understand they can get away with it. The supply of girls is also a factor in Thailand for sure, but I don't think it is the dominant one. Prices are on the rise in AC, Philippines and Jakarta, Indonesia too for example. The question is: how high can prices go before it has a dramatic impact on demand? And the answer is I do not know. So far demand for girls in Thailand AND the Philippines has continued to increase despite the increases in prices and in the case of the PI the continued increase in supply of girls into the P4 P labor market. This is a clear sign of inelastic demand. Do you want to see the future? Take a look at Macau. Sauna prices are sky high. A session with a model category Chinese girl at Rio costs just under $300 US and yet there are still plenty of mostly Northern Asian customers. I firmly believe only a world wide depression will change the dynamics at play here and around the world. Price is going up everywhere. Save your money and pay up or marry a local beeitch in your home country and be unhappy.[/QUOTE]

This may be partly true but I don't know a guy who lives here who hasn't cut back on going to the gogos because the prices have and continue to rise. People have budgets for girls like everything else and if you have to decide between eating and paying the rent or decreasing the number of girls you have per month the choice is a pretty obvious one. Now for guys who fly half way around the world and have saved up for their vacation this may be more true but I also know a bunch of guys who refused to pay more than 1000 baht for FL's and have been priced out of the market and go to the Philippines or Cambodia now. For me the idea of paying 3000 baht for a FL at Climax is crazy but that is what a lot of the girls are asking. I won't pay it. Or pay 2500 for a gogo girl with the BF for as little time as they can get away with. I am slowly being priced out of the market. Guys have to get laid but they can get laid a lot less if necessary. At some price point when you factor in airline and hotel cost, it will be cheaper to get laid at home. But admittedly a lot less fun.

Back in the early 90's I used to go to Brazil a lot where the price for a girl in Help disco was about $30. Then they got their currency under control and the next time I went the price had gone up to between $80 and $100. I stopped going. I discovered the Dominican Republic where girls were $30. So as I found out did a lot of other guys who used to go to Brazil. People do find other options when they feel the price of getting laid has gotten too high.

I have no data other than what a few girls have told me but since the depreciation of the Yen a lot of Japanese are getting much more price sensitive and beginning to bargain. One Japanese friend has complained to me that it is getting expensive for him to go to gogos where he is also hit by large bar tabs. He is no longer coming every month like he did before.

He is French and he is a good friend of the French owner.

He is kind of a door ***** (but maybe more in a positive way).

If he think you are OK and will buy a drink inside he will say you are good to go. Most of the the time he will try to get you a drink before entering.

Probably because a lot of guys go inside and only look for some minutes and go away. It's a business thing I guess.

The guy is actually quite nice if you get to know him a little bit.

I do agree with you that observing people is more interesting than interacting with sometimes very boring girls.

Bangkok what a place! I agree to.

Have a good time!

[QUOTE=JokerInter;1655591]He tried to get me to buy a beer once before so that I could go in. I wonder if he is some kind of man waitress who gets tips when people buy drinks. Saw him there the other day.

I sat outside on purpose to observe his actions while I had some beers. Seems as though he approves the guest going to the bouncer at the door. They both got some scam going.

On. Sometimes observing other people is more interesting than listen to the girls try to hustle you. Anyway. Bangkok what a place.

I have often found myself going to afterskool on Soi cowboy. Beers are not bad compared to other GoGo's and you can have alot of finger play with the girls.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1655406]Korea's P4 P was very open to foreigners before the olympics. It was the foreign scene they cracked down upon, not the local scene. If a widespread crackdown occurs here, I suspect it will be the same. Korea was a developing country at one point as well.[/QUOTE]I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for LOS to have the Olympics, a widespread crackdown, make PFP illegal or become a first world nation. Unless you can hold it for at least a few decades.

Well before then I'll probably have advanced out of this world, so what happens in the business in the country will be of no concern to me. Even now my interest in returning is at an all time low, as IME personally the value in going there continues to diminish. Nothing to do with prices which in my area have not changed since 2007. Still, Siam remains a rock hard top of the world destination for single guys looking for the best bang for their buck. As solid as they come.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1655408]Dude, most of those are folks seeking a cheap beach holiday, not mongers. Have you seen all the fat Western women here these days?[/QUOTE]It must be tough for undesirable Canadian ladies these days, with buying sex becoming illegal on December 6 of this year. Canada followed a number of other Western nations that enacted similar laws not long ago. Which means cha ching for LOS.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1655697]It must be tough for undesirable Canadian ladies these days, with buying sex becoming illegal on December 6 of this year. Canada followed a number of other Western nations that enacted similar laws not long ago. Which means cha ching for LOS.[/QUOTE]Most folks cannot afford to go to LOS, but as a Canadian you can go to Cuba! There is also the DR, Mexico, Costa Rica, and South America.

[QUOTE=DRRonin;1655664]This may be partly true but I don't know a guy who lives here who hasn't cut back on going to the gogos because the prices have and continue to rise. People have budgets for girls like everything else and if you have to decide between eating and paying the rent or decreasing the number of girls you have per month the choice is a pretty obvious one. Now for guys who fly half way around the world and have saved up for their vacation this may be more true but I also know a bunch of guys who refused to pay more than 1000 baht for FL's and have been priced out of the market and go to the Philippines or Cambodia now. For me the idea of paying 3000 baht for a FL at Climax is crazy but that is what a lot of the girls are asking. I won't pay it. Or pay 2500 for a gogo girl with the BF for as little time as they can get away with. I am slowly being priced out of the market. Guys have to get laid but they can get laid a lot less if necessary. At some price point when you factor in airline and hotel cost, it will be cheaper to get laid at home. But admittedly a lot less fun.

Back in the early 90's I used to go to Brazil a lot where the price for a girl in Help disco was about $30. Then they got their currency under control and the next time I went the price had gone up to between $80 and $100. I stopped going. I discovered the Dominican Republic where girls were $30. So as I found out did a lot of other guys who used to go to Brazil. People do find other options when they feel the price of getting laid has gotten too high.

I have no data other than what a few girls have told me but since the depreciation of the Yen a lot of Japanese are getting much more price sensitive and beginning to bargain. One Japanese friend has complained to me that it is getting expensive for him to go to gogos where he is also hit by large bar tabs. He is no longer coming every month like he did before.[/QUOTE]With you DRRonin. No way I am paying that kind of money in Climax or anywhere. Yep, I have cut back for sure. I hit the oilies once a week these days. Used to hit the FL scene three or four times a week. Price was 1 k baht and that was 25 USD back then. Now 2500? Forget it. That was almost 3ST a few years back. Yep, the Japs are a bit more reluctant to spend these days.

Most of us moved over here to live well on a modest sum. And to have great gals for very little. Sad that both are disappearing. Funny how the "fun" factor decreases as the price increases. I don't know a any guys who think it is more fun now than it was 10-15 years ago. None.

[QUOTE=DRRonin;1655664]I won't pay it. Or pay 2500 for a gogo girl with the BF for as little time as they can get away with. I am slowly being priced out of the market. Guys have to get laid but they can get laid a lot less if necessary. At some price point when you factor in airline and hotel cost, it will be cheaper to get laid at home. But admittedly a lot less fun.
[/QUOTE]There are people like me who are half way in between an expat and a tourist. I am not retired and do not expect to be for at least another 10 years. However I live in Thailand approx. 4 months per year in total, flying in and out several times per year. Studied Thai Language over 20 years ago so pretty fluent now. Have a Thai GF (who doesn't speak English) for many years now and still stunning body, but not enough sex. So am probably looking for a liaison every 2nd day, on average. I rent by the month, but sometimes stay in Hotel just a few days to spend time with a regular "Gik".

Does not bother me to pay 3 K total for 2 hour session, when the quality is there. Its not that large an amount of money for someone in a well paid OS job. Okay I could get away with 2300 Baht maybe at an Oily including all fees, but the girls are generally too plain looking, so its difficult for me to find someone I really like a lot. All my major Oily favourites disappeared. Right now I am utilising mostly just a few regular girls that are known good performers for me, and far more pretty than average. Its possible to meet some outside and avoid shop fees or Bar Fines too (on occasions). Rock bottom prices are far less important to me than the quality of the girls looks. If I needed low prices, obviously I could try Pattaya, or Phnom Penh.

This stay in Thailand has been 2 weeks already, but only tonight did I finally try a new girl, not done before. Was a front of house PR girl at Crazy House. Pretty faced light skinned slim Laos girl. Others girls were quick to gossip to her about me, like what size is my dick, what I like doing, etc. This is very normal in all bars, Oilies etc. You don't get to have any secrets. If you get a bad reputation, many girls will shun you. Turned out she was quite reasonable fun on the bed, better than most CH girls. Was funny she did not want to kiss anymore after I had DATYed her pussy to fairly quick orgasm. Cost was well over 3 K if add up BF, girl and a few drinks. So its not economical of course. I am better off to with one of my regulars who is porn star quality and GFE on the bed and sends me to heaven and more.

I had to laugh when I saw Japanese guy walking with a "girl" who looked like a plastic alien to me (actually a LB I guess). Don't know where she came from. Perhaps Cockatoo. It amazes me how different is my taste to some Asian customers. They probably would not even consider my Laos girl, even though very pretty face. On the other hand Crazy House is popular with Japanese and Koreans too. I guess its a different group to the ones that visit Baccarat, Shark, and Cockatoo.

I see myself as gradually visiting sex establishments less and less, certainly not daily, and just meeting up with known girls. Very stuck on one favourite right now. When one girl is really just too good, it makes it hard to build the enthusiasm to keep trying others. She makes me think seriously if I have the wrong GF of course. I have also dropped off one semi-favourite who was very good on the bed but whose looks and personality were just a bit behind others. Girls have to be very special now to hold my long term interest, but I don't get bored with super girls. I prefer older girls in age group 26 to 35, with just a bit more maturity and experience, and not too silly hopefully, and still with nice slim body. Doesn't bother me if they have a child, as long as has not wrecked their body completely.

I seriously think there is a big mismatch between expats on a very tight budget and sex tourists. I feel closer to the tourist types, as not penny pinching, however know where things are and don't have immense time to waste looking for girls. I also don't quite understand when some guys want to spend big money on Hotels of course, just to lie in a bed. Discos are virtually out of the question for me, and I really hate discos like Spicey (as a very bad music quality example).

There should be separate forums ideally for tourists and expats. There was an expats forum created and unfortunately no one wants to use it I believe.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1655754]Most folks cannot afford to go to LOS, but as a Canadian you can go to Cuba! There is also the DR, Mexico, Costa Rica, and South America.[/QUOTE]The folks who cannot afford to go to LOS are generally unable to afford to engage in the hobby either. Those who can afford to hobby can afford to go to LOS because it is so cheap to stay & partake there.

After a few days you've already saved so much from the cheap LOS poontang relative to Canada that it has covered the cost of your extra expenses like airfare. After that it's like getting sex for free. As a bonus, you also get no criminal record with disastrous consequences.

The average Canadian salary is about 45,000 dollars a year. How much is an economy class round trip to LOS from Canada these days, a mere 1000? Or the other places you mention?

LOS aside, the problem with the places you mention is not many mongers have an interest in going to most of them. Even the most popular of the group, South America, is quite far from Canada & several regular contributers here are not impressed with its present state of decline. They prefer Thailand.

Generally speaking Latin or Hispanic countries have issues like being relatively dangerous and a greater need for the punter to speak the lingo. Therefore, besides Thaksinland, I'd rather choose Australia, Singapore, Germany or the Netherlands.

Almost every pic or vid of Mexican PFP chicks I've seen I wouldn't do if they were paying me. I doubt DR, CR or Cubans would be much better. I prefer Thais, VN or PRC.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1655696]I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for LOS to have the Olympics, a widespread crackdown, make PFP illegal or become a first world nation. Unless you can hold it for at least a few decades.

Well before then I'll probably have advanced out of this world, so what happens in the business in the country will be of no concern to me. Even now my interest in returning is at an all time low, as IME personally the value in going there continues to diminish. Nothing to do with prices which in my area have not changed since 2007. Still, Siam remains a rock hard top of the world destination for single guys looking for the best bang for their buck. As solid as they come.[/QUOTE]I agree, in my life time there will be no Olympics here! Too much corruption here the big difference the left hand has not idea what the right hand is doing? And there is the territory issue. But they do like to dream and talk! Recently because one of their cyclist won a medal at the Asian games? Some official claim they were holding next year Tour De France in Thailand. The can't even fix a road or understand how to direct traffic here! But of course if they knew and could we would be priced out?

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1655817]The folks who cannot afford to go to LOS are generally unable to afford to engage in the hobby either. Those who can afford to hobby can afford to go to LOS because it is so cheap to stay & partake there.

After a few days you've already saved so much from the cheap LOS poontang relative to Canada that it has covered the cost of your extra expenses like airfare. After that it's like getting sex for free. As a bonus, you also get no criminal record with disastrous consequences.

The average Canadian salary is about 45,000 dollars a year. How much is an economy class round trip to LOS from Canada these days, a mere 1000? Or the other places you mention?

LOS aside, the problem with the places you mention is not many mongers have an interest in going to most of them. Even the most popular of the group, South America, is quite far from Canada & several regular contributers here are not impressed with its present state of decline. They prefer Thailand.

Generally speaking Latin or Hispanic countries have issues like being relatively dangerous and a greater need for the punter to speak the lingo. Therefore, besides Thaksinland, I'd rather choose Australia, Singapore, Germany or the Netherlands.

Almost every pic or vid of Mexican PFP chicks I've seen I wouldn't do if they were paying me. I doubt DR, CR or Cubans would be much better. I prefer Thais, VN or PRC.[/QUOTE]Huh? I know lots of dudes who would rather go to S American than SE Asia. It is all a matter of taste. I would bet you that far more and American mongers stay in the Western Hemisphere as opposed to coming over here. And hey, Spanish is far easier to learn than Thai.

Canada? South America is far closer to most US states than Asia and there is no jet lag.

BTW, right now 1 k, but 6 months ago 1500 USD to come to LOS.

I like Latin girls but do prefer Asian. However that is not the case with everyone.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1655805]I seriously think there is a big mismatch between expats on a very tight budget and sex tourists. I feel closer to the tourist types, as not penny pinching, however know where things are and don't have immense time to waste looking for girls. I also don't quite understand when some guys want to spend big money on Hotels of course, just to lie in a bed. Discos are virtually out of the question for me, and I really hate discos like Spicey (as a very bad music quality example).

There should be separate forums ideally for tourists and expats. There was an expats forum created and unfortunately no one wants to use it I believe.[/QUOTE]Well, as I have stated many times, LOS used to be great value for money when it came to P4 P. You got a pretty good looking enthusiastic gal for 1 k baht ST (25 USD at the time) and 500 baht BF. So for 37 USD you had a pretty damn good time. And gals were plentiful. FLs everywhere, and gogo gals would beg you to take them. Walk by Nana or Cowboy at closing time and you would literally be propositioned by large numbers of girls. "Go with you. " "Go with you. " "Go with you. "It was an amazing amount of fun. I could not wait till the sun went down so I could get out and about. Now, meh! I rarely go out hunting for gals because the scene is so grim. And with the increase in prices the attitudes have taken a tumble. I guess if you pick up a FL at a disco for 2 k and she stays till the next afternoon it is a good deal, but I have a GF and have no interest at all in spending all that "quality time" with a working girl.

I guess when it comes down to it the loss of the "fun" aspect has probably effected the expats I know more than price. Its kind of like going to the car dealer and finding that prices have increased 4 fold yet options have decreased by 50%. And yes, money does have something to do with it. Most of us did not move over here to pay 100 USD or more for a ST. We came over because the gals were cheap and fun. Not to mention living here was very reasonable. Food and rent is still a bargain. Gals not so much. As I have said as the price has increased the attitudes and expectations have as well. In another 10 yrs the P4 P scene here will have high end and low end and very little in the middle.

Amazingly Singapore is quite a bargain when it comes to mongering. Geylang is pretty great these days. No gogos, just houses and FLs walking the streets. Would love to have a legal brothel area in BKK like that.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1655866] ..., but I have a GF and have no interest at all in spending all that "quality time" with a working girl...[/QUOTE]That says it all, Goat. Once one has a GF or, perish the thought, a wife, the game is over and the fun is down the toilet.

[QUOTE=DRRonin;1655664]I have no data other than what a few girls have told me but since the depreciation of the Yen a lot of Japanese are getting much more price sensitive and beginning to bargain. One Japanese friend has complained to me that it is getting expensive for him to go to gogos where he is also hit by large bar tabs. He is no longer coming every month like he did before.[/QUOTE]Do tell more about the mindset of the Ippun sex tourist.

I just find it hard to believe they are reckless with their money as they are made out to be. Girls like them because they are nicer.

So sad to see some (actually quite a few) whimpering about what they paid 10 years ago to what they pay now.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1655864] And hey, Spanish is far easier to learn than Thai.
[/QUOTE]In my opinion, Thai is not really a difficult language. Okay The vocab has few words in common with English, but there are no grammatical problems, and less idiomatic use of words or expressions than English. The challenge for Thai is learning to pronounce. That dominates the first 6 months. Once the sounds are properly understood, the rest is fairly easy. Thai words do not change, due to grammar. I find languages like French and German to be a lot more difficult than Thai, due to tricky word sequence and mostly grammatical problems. I haven't really studied Spanish so I don't know much about that one. In European languages, when you have to change verbs for making various tenses, know whether nouns are masculine, feminine or neuter and adjective endings have to match case and gender of nouns, that is a difficult language to speak properly. Thai has none of those issues.

The main issue in Thai for me, is purely making the right tone on words, which is just part of learning the word. At least it does not change thankfully.

In English, vowels are pronounced quite differently by different countries. It does not matter. In Thai, this is not possible, and the vowel sounds are significantly different to English. The vowels can only be pronounced one way. The funniest Thai speakers tend to be some Americans as you can hear the American drawl coming through and stretching words longer than they should be, as well as vowels tending to have an American sound instead of Thai sound, which is incorrect. So some have proceeded too far with vocab before getting the pronunciation close to correct. Perhaps they did not have a strict teacher to enforce the correct sounds early. Its easier for Germans to speak Thai as most German vowels are quite close to Thai vowels in sound. Similarly for many other Europeans.

In Thai, pronunciation is everything, grammar is almost nothing. Thai has an alphabet. So learning to write or SMS in Thai is not massively challenging, and only 10% of words have tricky spellings. When read a Thai word, it can be pronounced correctly in more than 95% of cases. It's systematic, unlike English.

Vietnamese is more difficult than Thai due to tricky pronunciation, and I suspect that Khmer is also more difficult. Issaan is also slightly more difficult due to difficulties to correctly understand the tones.

Thai is one of the easier Asian languages excepting of course Indonesian / Malaysian and Tagalog.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1655817]Therefore, besides Thaksinland, I'd rather choose Australia, Singapore, Germany or the Netherlands.
[/QUOTE]WTF? Australia is a totally crap country for mongering, and if you did, you would want to take a Thai or Korean girl anyway. The Australian born Farangs are very bad indeed (98%). Of course Thailand has much better Thai girls than Australia has, due to shear weight of numbers.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1655941]In my opinion, Thai is not really a difficult language. Okay The vocab has few words in common with English, but there are no grammatical problems, and less idiomatic use of words or expressions than English. The challenge for Thai is learning to pronounce. That dominates the first 6 months. Once the sounds are properly understood, the rest is fairly easy. Thai words do not change, due to grammar. I find languages like French and German to be a lot more difficult than Thai, due to tricky word sequence and mostly grammatical problems. I haven't really studied Spanish so I don't know much about that one. In European languages, when you have to change verbs for making various tenses, know whether nouns are masculine, feminine or neuter and adjective endings have to match case and gender of nouns, that is a difficult language to speak properly. Thai has none of those issues.

The main issue in Thai for me, is purely making the right tone on words, which is just part of learning the word. At least it does not change thankfully.

In English, vowels are pronounced quite differently by different countries. It does not matter. In Thai, this is not possible, and the vowel sounds are significantly different to English. The vowels can only be pronounced one way. The funniest Thai speakers tend to be some Americans as you can hear the American drawl coming through and stretching words longer than they should be, as well as vowels tending to have an American sound instead of Thai sound, which is incorrect. So some have proceeded too far with vocab before getting the pronunciation close to correct. Perhaps they did not have a strict teacher to enforce the correct sounds early. Its easier for Germans to speak Thai as most German vowels are quite close to Thai vowels in sound. Similarly for many other Europeans.

In Thai, pronunciation is everything, grammar is almost nothing. Thai has an alphabet. So learning to write or SMS in Thai is not massively challenging, and only 10% of words have tricky spellings. When read a Thai word, it can be pronounced correctly in more than 95% of cases. It's systematic, unlike English.

Vietnamese is more difficult than Thai due to tricky pronunciation, and I suspect that Khmer is also more difficult. Issaan is also slightly more difficult due to difficulties to correctly understand the tones.

Thai is one of the easier Asian languages excepting of course Indonesian / Malaysian and Tagalog.[/QUOTE]Speaking is not that hard, but reading and writing is a chore. I don't think one can really know a language till one can read and write, which means I will never really know Thai. I can speak enough, but feel I am missing out not being able to read. And I love speaking Thai with my Texas accent.

BTW, the main thing I find frustrating is the locals seeming inability to function using context. If a non-English speaker is talking to me and misspeaks a word or two, I can still figure out what he / she is saying. Miss a tone here in LOS and even if the rest of the sentence is dead on, you have lost them. Folks who speak tonal languages process language differently.

Khmer is easy; no tones. Viet is difficult to speak, but using the Roman alphabet makes it easier to read. Being able to pick up the paper and recognize words is a nice thing.

[QUOTE=Daddy07;1655874]That says it all, Goat. Once one has a GF or, perish the thought, a wife, the game is over and the fun is down the toilet.[/QUOTE]Actually not really true. I have had a two different girlfriends during my tenure here. Neither has gotten in the way of my "fun. ".

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1655988]Actually not really true. I have had a two different girlfriends during my tenure here. Neither has gotten in the way of my "fun. ".[/QUOTE]Does your current GF know about and approve of your extra-curricular "fun"? If so, congratulations and more power to you for beating the game. If not, you are merely delaying the inevitable "game over" scenario and "fun" down the toilet. Just curious; did your break up with GF #1 have anything to do with your "fun?" :)

[QUOTE=Steve7777;1655887]Do tell more about the mindset of the Ippun sex tourist.

I just find it hard to believe they are reckless with their money as they are made out to be. Girls like them because they are nicer.[/QUOTE]No great insights here.

I would say more pliable than nice. Many Thai girls have told me that it is very easy to get a Japanese guy to take them shopping. As to price, the Japanese are like everyone else. Some of them are loaded and others are on much tighter budgets (the Thermae guys). One big difference that you will observe between the Japanese and the Farangs is that in general the Japanese are much younger. I would guess that the majority of the Japanese are in their 20's and 30's while most Farangs are 40 and over. So I would have to guess that a lot of these Japanese are not at all wealthy but perhaps live at home and so can save for these sex expeditions. They also tend to come in groups which you rarely see with Farangs. And they often will all BF a girl at the same gogo and go off for a bout of drinking and then sex. This is much more their operating model than ours probably due to the karaoke / nightclub nature of paid sex and after work hours relaxation back home. But I think that they have definitely pushed up the price curve over the past 10 years. There are enough of them to do so. Now they have been able to do this primarily because of a very favorable yen to baht exchange rate and are able to easily justify it because compared to back home it is incredibly cheap. So paying 3000 baht is still a huge bargain for them. But that 3000 baht is costing them a lot more in terms of yen than it did a year ago and I have seen predictions that the yen will continue to lose value as they continue to try and pump up their economy.

Another observation is that if you sit in Big Dog and watch the people come and go you will see a large number of young Japanese guys going out with Ladyboys. I just find this really peculiar and have no idea why. And groups of young Japanese guys doing it together.

As to the girls I have heard girls who like the Japanese because they pay well and cause no trouble and others who much prefer Farangs because they find the Japanese to be very boring and can't communicate with them. Lately I have been hearing complaints from a few girls about the Koreans who can be very rough and nasty apparently and more and more of them are coming to Bangkok.

One night I was sitting in Mandarin and a lone Japanese guy was sitting there and the mamasan came over with a girl. He barely looked up but assented to buying her a drink. They never spoke a word but the mamasan came over a few minutes later and asked him to bf her. He did. To me it was kind of revealing as to how they go about this compared to Farangs. We often look for a connection but for him it was just a transaction. If it didn't work out so what. It didn't cost him much.

[QUOTE=Bkkdog;1655308] I would like to recommend to all mongers to start and use services like We Chat, Skout, Tango, and Badoo. Thai girls are moving away from surfing the net on a computer or notebooks. The mobile internet is where it's at here. These services have location based searches and many of the girls are looking for pay for play but you can even find freebies. Search and chat, you have nothing to lose. [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1655866]Well, as I have stated many times, LOS used to be great value for money when it came to P4 P. You got a pretty good looking enthusiastic gal for 1 k baht ST (25 USD at the time) and 500 baht BF. So for 37 USD you had a pretty damn good time. And gals were plentiful. FLs everywhere, and gogo gals would beg you to take them. Walk by Nana or Cowboy at closing time and you would literally be propositioned by large numbers of girls. "Go with you. " "Go with you. " "Go with you. "It was an amazing amount of fun. I could not wait till the sun went down so I could get out and about. Now, meh! I rarely go out hunting for gals because the scene is so grim.[/QUOTE]Goatscrot,

As Bkkdog already pointed out the mobile internet is the place to be these days, more and more. The world has changed and will always change and we have to keep up with that. Although I know how hard that can be for us older gents.

I am quite 'internet savvy' but not really 'mobile internet savvy'. Yesterday I bought my first smart phone, go figure LOL! It will take some time but I'm getting there.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1655866]Amazingly Singapore is quite a bargain when it comes to mongering. Geylang is pretty great these days. No gogos, just houses and FLs walking the streets. Would love to have a legal brothel area in BKK like that.[/QUOTE]Mate, Basis of my two recent trips (Oct & Nov) and limited experience I don't think Singapore is a bargain. In Geylang best looking girls are generally found at the 150 SGD (approx. 3700 baht) houses and for 1 hour with no BBBJ and DATY definitely is not cheap. Besides the houses in lorongs do need some footwork to be able to find a girl to ones linking. Even the decent SWs on the street don't go for less then 80 SGD excluding room. In both these prices one can easily find a ST and possibly a LT as well in BKK / PYX and a BBBJ if not DATY will be included as well.

In OT girls ask for ST starting at 150 or 200 SGD and with these girls BBJ and DATY is a possibility. This amount gets one a LT in PYX and BKK as well.

Thailand is still much better VFM in my opinion.

[QUOTE=IllusionHeart;1656065]Mate, Basis of my two recent trips (Oct & Nov) and limited experience I don't think Singapore is a bargain. In Geylang best looking girls are generally found at the 150 SGD (approx. 3700 baht) houses and for 1 hour with no BBBJ and DATY definitely is not cheap. Besides the houses in lorongs do need some footwork to be able to find a girl to ones linking. Even the decent SWs on the street don't go for less then 80 SGD excluding room. In both these prices one can easily find a ST and possibly a LT as well in BKK / PYX and a BBBJ if not DATY will be included as well.

In OT girls ask for ST starting at 150 or 200 SGD and with these girls BBJ and DATY is a possibility. This amount gets one a LT in PYX and BKK as well.

Thailand is still much better VFM in my opinion.[/QUOTE]Interesting. I was finding prices at 100 SGD in some houses. 80 SGD is not bad considering 2 k plus 600 baht BF at gogos in BKK. And you have the added bonus of gals from all over SE Asia and PRC.

[QUOTE=Mogwai;1656064]Goatscrot,

As Bkkdog already pointed out the mobile internet is the place to be these days, more and more. The world has changed and will always change and we have to keep up with that. Although I know how hard that can be for us older gents.

I am quite 'internet savvy' but not really 'mobile internet savvy'. Yesterday I bought my first smart phone, go figure LOL! It will take some time but I'm getting there.[/QUOTE]Guess if I did not have a GF then I might play that game, but just not really into any type of "*****mancing. " I just want to go, find a gal, do the deed, and leave.

[QUOTE=Daddy07;1656001]Does your current GF know about and approve of your extra-curricular "fun"? If so, congratulations and more power to you for beating the game. If not, you are merely delaying the inevitable "game over" scenario and "fun" down the toilet. Just curious; did your break up with GF #1 have anything to do with your "fun?" :)[/QUOTE]Huh? Thailand is the land of compartmentalization. Something that we in the West really don't get. Don't ask don't tell as long as it does not effect the relationship.

First of all I am discreet. I would never invest in a relationship with another gal. I don't take phone numbers nor do I date. My interaction is restricted to sex. I have no interest in other females beyond 90 minutes. I mean FFS so many guys come over here and recreate the exact same situation they had in the states. They find a gal way younger and prettier than they could get back home, stick it in, and in six seconds they are in "love" and promising the gal the same types of things (ie fidelity, eternal love, etc) they would a gal back in the West. Many go on to knock up and even marry these gals. Inevitably the dude gets bored and starts doinking around, but lo an behold his gal stalks him because he promised fidelity. Personally I did not move here to have the same type of relationship that I did in the states. I came here to have my cake and eat it to, which is quite possible as long as you can keep things in perspective and compartmentalize. Your girlfriend is your girlfriend and working girls are working girls.

Secondly my gal and I respect each other's space. She doesn't hound me and I don't hound her. We don't pry. If she were to go out and get laid, so be it; again as long as it does not effect the relationship, no harm no foul. We don't ask each other questions and neither are jealous. Been a very nice 8 years, due to the fact that we have complementary personalities, are both well educated (she has more degrees than I do), are amazingly irreverent, and are both staunch anti-theists. She is also one of the few Thais who does not subscribe to the cult of personality, if you know what I mean.

First gal? To be candid I did not know she was an alcoholic when I met her. The disease progressed. Just was not going to live with that.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1655944]WTF? Australia is a totally crap country for mongering, and if you did, you would want to take a Thai or Korean girl anyway. The Australian born Farangs are very bad indeed (98%). Of course Thailand has much better Thai girls than Australia has, due to shear weight of numbers.[/QUOTE]I've never been anywhere on the Aussie continent. What makes it "crap"?

Unlike Canada it is legal to buy sex in Australia, so no worries about large fines, huge lawyers bills, imprisonment or a criminal record. So I have considered it as a possibly preferable alternate to Canada.

And unlike certain dangerous countries where one needs to learn the lingo, that shouldn't be so much of a problem in English speaking Kangaroo land. One might even survive the experience there alive & without being subjected to the corruption of lesser nations. How much is that worth to you, or do you like to gamble?

[QUOTE=DRRonin;1656037]Another observation is that if you sit in Big Dog and watch the people come and go you will see a large number of young Japanese guys going out with Ladyboys. I just find this really peculiar and have no idea why. And groups of young Japanese guys doing it together.

Lately I have been hearing complaints from a few girls about the Koreans who can be very rough and nasty apparently and more and more of them are coming to Bangkok.[/QUOTE]Yep, noticed that. I find it strange as well. Kudos to their sense of perversion!

I have heard the same from some oily gals. The Korean dudes can be quite abusive. They sure are rude on the streets, but some of them have some amazingly hot Korean gals in tow.

Found this two year old article from [URL]teakdoor.com[/URL] No mention of Asians. Maybe the prof was only interested in farangs.

Thai professor of sociology Sathit Niyomyat, a former assistant dean at the prestigious Thammasat University and the author of numerous studies on gender issues, has published some surprising results following a three-year research project during which she interviewed some 470 local women working in the sex industry.

In an anonymous survey, Thai prostitutes were asked to rank their preferred nationality among foreign clients more than 6,000 of them in total based on a variety of criteria. "We were interested in how demanding they were, the length of sexual activity, consumption of alcohol, behavior and degree of coarseness, and the solvency of sex tourists, based on nationality," Prof. Niyomyat said, as quoted by the Czech tabloid Blesk.

Although Slovaks topped the rankings, followed by the French and Americans, the study points out that doesn't mean they were better lovers than the fifth-ranked Czechs: Thai sex workers have a preference for clients who are non-confrontational, undemanding and quick.

"The least favorite customers are the Swedes. They most often seek painful practices and want sexual intercourse without a condom, often under the influence of alcohol, which prolongs the intercourse and is unpleasant for the girls," Prof. Niyomyat said.

Favorite foreign customers of Thai sex workers.

1. Slovaks (86% rating).

2. French (83%.

3. Americans (74%.

4. Belgians (72%.

5. Czechs (71%.

6. Austrians (64%.

7. Swiss and Dutch (tied at 63 %.

9. Canadians (53%.

10. Danes (49%.

27. Germans (35%.

35. Swedes (17%.

[QUOTE=IllusionHeart;1656065]Even the decent SWs on the street don't go for less then 80 SGD excluding room.


Thailand is still much better VFM in my opinion.[/QUOTE]I've had hot girls in SG for as little as 20 USD, including room. Usually I paid no more than 50 USD all in for FS, etc. Some of them were total knockouts.

Quite a few in Geylang were up for BBBJ, DFK, even BB sex.

A main attraction there for me is the abundance of available white busty and or perfectly slim VN, PRC, etc one cannot get in LOS.

All of this has previously been reported in the Singapore ISG threads.

Should we assume the English are overly demanding and not preferred at all as they are not listed? Not to criticize the report but these girls have great linguistic.

Skills as they can determine between Dutch and German as well as Czechs and Slovaks, Americans and Canadians, (except for the A 's) as well as some other.

Closely related by language countries. Not knocking you, just asking a question.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1655864]I would bet you that far more and American mongers stay in the Western Hemisphere as opposed to coming over here. [/QUOTE]I'd bet more Americans go to Asia and Thailand for PFP than Nevada or Cuba or DR or CR.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1655864]And hey, Spanish is far easier to learn than Thai.[/QUOTE]So I can labour to learn Spanish to have a greater chance of being a victim of crime.

Or I can keep spending half my time in LOS as I have done for years & know about 3 words of Thai.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1655864]Canada? South America is far closer to most US states than Asia and there is no jet lag.[/QUOTE]The subject was Canada. From its North Pole to the freezing tip of South America is, I guess, further & more expensive than to go than from Vancouver to LOS. I never experienced jet lag on such a trip.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1655864]I like Latin girls but do prefer Asian. However that is not the case with everyone.[/QUOTE]To each their own. Apparently Brazil is more expensive than LOS, besides its other deficiences.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1655944]WTF? Australia is a totally crap country for mongering, and if you did, you would want to take a Thai or Korean girl anyway.[/QUOTE]Koreans would be a big incentive to go to Australia. Like having a Japanese who I consider the hottest anywhere. I've had them in Canada when PFP was legal as they used to be quite abundant there. You won't be getting any in LOS.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1656118]I've never been anywhere on the Aussie continent. What makes it "crap"?
[/QUOTE]Look its the wrong thread for Aussie mongering. I haven't done it for a long time. Just believe me that Aussie girls give bad service (more than 90% They are very procedural. Little chance of a GFE, except maybe some foreigners. Also it was far more expensive than Thailand. Total waste of money to be with an "Aussie" girl. I really can remember only a very few good ones from say 35 years ago. The Thai girls were far more reliable. The majority of Aussie hookers are not that great looking especially when get the clothes off.

Its not really about getting your dick legally into some pussy. I accept that its possible USA and Canada could be worse, never having had a monger fuck there, but at least they have some hot black girls.

[QUOTE=ConquerorVal;1656125]
2. French (83%.
[/QUOTE]I am a bit sceptical too, and don't see how we can learn anything useful from the list.

Most Thai girls, whether Sex workers or not, seem to have a negative view about French guys in general as being firstly stingy (very tight with money), and secondly possibly appearing a little arrogant. Could they be ranked high purely as good lovers, or good looking, or quick and clean?

Germans are also considered to be a bit stingy, and a bit "black hearted" but girls comment that the German football team players are very good looking. English are considered the most foul mouthed speakers and impolite. So does not surprise me if they are very low ranked. Americans are way more polite, in general.

A LB told me that a very high percentage of Italians like LBs. I don't know if its really true. Passing the LB bar in cowboy, it seems like most customers are Asians, but have seen Farangs as well.

Sorry if anyone gets offended by these gross generalisations. It could be all bullshit that I hear from girls. I find that most girls take me as I am and don't care where I come from. I may not be very typical. I think my countrymen once had a reputation as being cheats that would try to leave the Hotel by the backdoor without paying the bill, also as being very sloppy dressers, and smelling of beer.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1656134]I've had hot girls in SG for as little as 20 USD, including room. Usually I paid no more than 50 USD all in for FS, etc. Some of them were total knockouts.

Quite a few in Geylang were up for BBBJ, DFK, even BB sex.
[/QUOTE]My experience many years ago in Geylang, was that they only wanted to give 15 or 20 min sessions to Asians, and for Farangs gave slightly more time, maybe 30 minutes, but at a higher price. Generally were Thai girls. Certainly taking a girl for 2 hours would have been several consecutive sessions and would not have worked out cheap.

Thailand was definitely much better value for longer time period sessions. Singapore was competitive only for a "quickie" which is not my style.

Hot Lips bar in Nana is now called Candyland 2. It seems to be doing much better than Candyland 1 which has poor interior decoration and colouring, weak girls selection and few customers even on a Saturday.

Crazy House line up was rather ordinary to my fussy taste Saturday night. Was better on Friday night. Overall I believe that Crazy House is declining for line up quality of looks over time. Some of prettiest girls disappeared or work irregularly. The new ones can be quite ordinary. However doing good business so maybe my taste is wrong. Not a high enough percentage of the girls are nude any more.

[QUOTE=Bkkdog;1655308] I would like to recommend to all mongers to start and use services like We Chat, Skout, Tango, and Badoo. Thai girls are moving away from surfing the net on a computer or notebooks. The mobile internet is where it's at here. These services have location based searches and many of the girls are looking for pay for play but you can even find freebies. Search and chat, you have nothing to lose. Recently you can read about my report of finding extremely good ladies working in the massage parlours on we chat. Shop before you go in. Saves you walking to all the shops and striking deals for services. If you can do it beforehand it will save you aggravation in the shop. Freebies are well worth the time of searching. One of these cuties I spent 7 days with fucking and sucking. I suggest ditch the Thai friendlies, Date in Asia's, Thai Cupids, and son on. These are all just a waste of time. [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Mogwai;1656064] As Bkkdog already pointed out the mobile internet is the place to be these days, more and more. The world has changed and will always change and we have to keep up with that. Although I know how hard that can be for us older gents.

I am quite 'internet savvy' but not really 'mobile internet savvy'. Yesterday I bought my first smart phone, go figure LOL! It will take some time but I'm getting there.[/QUOTE]Very interesting indeed. This might help to explain the dwindling numbers of decent FL's on the streets these days. Maybe they're all doing business on their smart phones now. I'm quite Internet savvy too as I use my PC a lot, but until now I couldn't think of a good reason to buy a smart phone, except perhaps to keep track of the US stock market while I'm out and about. The idea of using one to find pussy never occurred to me.

I totally agree that using sites like ThaiLoveLinks is a waste of time. I wonder if older guys like me can have success using a smart phone to find fuck buddies and P4 P sessions like BKKdog is doing it? If so, I'm going to run down to [URL]Tuk.Com[/URL] and buy one. I'd like to know more about the ins and outs of the services BKKdog talks about for finding pussy. Do keep us informed of your progress, Mogwai as we all have something new to learn.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1656116]Huh? Thailand is the land of compartmentalization. Something that we in the West really don't get. Don't ask don't tell as long as it does not effect the relationship.[/QUOTE]You are far too modest, Goat. You've beaten the game and deserve great admiration and congratulations from all dedicated pussy mongers. I trust that you realize the rarity of your situation and just how lucky you are. Most women on this planet will not be content to let their boy friends have their cake and eat it too.

As for me, I don't think I could manage it even if it fell into my lap. I enjoy my solitude way to much and just don't have time for any relationship with a woman that lasts for more than 1 hour at a time. I have a number of great regulars for that purpose and it suits me fine. They come over, we have our "fun," I pay them, and they leave. Don't need more company than that.

[QUOTE=ConquerorVal;1656125]Found this two year old article from [URL]teakdoor.com[/URL] No mention of Asians. Maybe the prof was only interested in farangs.

Thai professor of sociology Sathit Niyomyat, a former assistant dean at the prestigious Thammasat University and the author of numerous studies on gender issues, has published some surprising results following a three-year research project during which she interviewed some 470 local women working in the sex industry.

In an anonymous survey, Thai prostitutes were asked to rank their preferred nationality among foreign clients more than 6,000 of them in total based on a variety of criteria. "We were interested in how demanding they were, the length of sexual activity, consumption of alcohol, behavior and degree of coarseness, and the solvency of sex tourists, based on nationality," Prof. Niyomyat said, as quoted by the Czech tabloid Blesk..[/QUOTE]I call bollocks. Do the girl compartmentalize guys into such specific categories. Its Farang or Asian or Blacks.

Who knows. I'm not a Thai prostitute.

[QUOTE=Daddy07;1656305] I wonder if older guys like me can have success using a smart phone to find fuck buddies and P4 P sessions like BKKdog is doing it? If so, I'm going to run down to [URL]Tuk.Com[/URL] and buy one. I'd like to know more about the ins and outs of the services BKKdog talks about for finding pussy. Do keep us informed of your progress, Mogwai as we all have something new to learn.[/QUOTE]I'm not a very regular FR poster, as writing a decent FR takes quite some time, but I will do my best.
Meanwhile I advise you to read the thread 'Chat Rooms and Pen Pals' in the Philippines section. You can learn quite a bit there!
[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?2479-Chat-Rooms-amp-Pen-Pals[/URL]

Yesterday I joined 'Line' ([URL]http://line.me/en/[/URL]), one of many chat & message applications out there. Some time ago I barfined a gorgeous agogo girl and I took some pictures of her. I wanted to send her these pictures so I texted her and asked for her email address. She replied that she hasn't got one (which I doubt, I suppose she just doesn't want to give it to me) and that I could send the pics to her Line ID. I thought 'what the heck is Line?' LOL. Never heard of it, so I googled it.

Registration was a pain in the ass because they send a verification code to your phone that you have to enter in the sign up procedure within 30 minutes. However due to a slow network or slow internet provider I received the registration code way too late and had to start all over again a couple of times. I even had to fill in a complaint form and send it to their customer service. But it helped apparently because all of a sudden the application worked.

I had already (manually) copied a dozen or so contacts from my old phone to my new smart phone. About 4 of those contacts were Thai 'girl friends' and I soon found out that they were also Line members. The application automatically matches the contact numbers in your phone with the members and they are then automatically added to your Friends List. With some undesirable results by the way. For example: some Thai mobile numbers start with 06. I am from Holland and in my country almost all mobile numbers start with 06. So you can guess what happened. One of my Dutch contact numbers matched with a Thai number so a total stranger was added to my Friends list, LOL!
But you can turn off this automatic number matching in the settings menu. And I guess if I include the country codes in my contacts' numbers the problem is also solved.

It took me some time to figure out how I could send the photos but I finally got it. I just had to start a chat session with my lovely 'girl friend' and then I could send her the photos (although I found out later that's only one of the possibilities). But before that I accidentally clicked on 'video call'. I quickly canceled it but 30 seconds later she 'video called' me back. It was about 4 PM which I presume is a good time to contact agogo or bar girls. Her English is still very limited so we only had a short 'video conference' but it was fun. Had to promise her to come to her agogo of course. Aaah, those damn promises! Nevertheless I want to have her again, but she's bloody expensive (but also worth it and I can't say that very often of an agogo girl).

One of my other 'girl friends' also started a chat pretty soon after I had signed up. She was 'angry' that I hadn't informed her yet that I was back in town, LOL. Sorry hun, I just arrived yesterday (actually 3 days ago but that's on a need to know basis, LOL!).

Today I will enter all of my Asian contacts in my new phone and I'm curious how many of them are Line members.

By the way, with Line you cannot search for new 'girl friends'. You'll need apps like Tango for that, I want to join that one too.

And when I was in Vietnam recently I tried the PC version of Tango (as I didn't have a smart phone yet) but with the PC version you cannot search for people nearby unfortunately.
But I found out that with the PC version of Tagged you can do that so I signed up and I had some modest success.
I had a few dates with a 27 yo girl in Nha Trang. She was not P4 P but slowly, surely and with a lot of patience I got her into my bed. Her face was only a 6,5 but her body was an 8 and she was horny as hell. It truly amazes me that a man in his early fifties like me can make young girls so damn horny, even if they are only 18 or 19. Although I admit I do not make ALL of them horny.
Unfortunately this girl in Nha Trang was on the rag so she didn't want to boom boom. And she didn't want to give me a BJ either because 'only sluts do that'. Damn 'good girls', LOL!

Later I came into contact with a 39 yo MILF in Saigon who was still good looking for her age. We had lunch and we spent an afternoon exploring Saigon a little bit on her bike. I thought she was not P4 P because she said she was looking for a serious relationship. I told her I was only looking for a casual contact with NSA but despite that she still wanted to meet me. OK I thought, fine with me, I will see what this leads to.
During our meeting she didn't give any signals that she was P4 P. At least that's what I thought. But looking back on it there were some subtle signals.
At the end of the afternoon she had to go back home so we said goodbye and I thought I would not see her again. But in the evening she surprised me with a text message that said something like: 'It was nice meeting you. Is there anything else I can do for you?
I replied: 'What would you like to do for me?
'Anything you want' she said. OK, that was clear.

So I invited her to come to my hotel. She said she would do that but first she had to bring a neighbour to the pagoda. In the end she never showed up and didn't respond to my texts and calls anymore. The following morning I got an excuse from her that she had been very busy and was too tired to meet me. That was a pity because I was heading for Thailand that same morning.

So here you are, a report of my first 'unstable' steps in the world of mobile internet.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1656236]Look its the wrong thread for Aussie mongering. I haven't done it for a long time. Just believe me that Aussie girls give bad service (more than 90% They are very procedural. Little chance of a GFE, except maybe some foreigners. Also it was far more expensive than Thailand. Total waste of money to be with an "Aussie" girl. I really can remember only a very few good ones from say 35 years ago. The Thai girls were far more reliable. The majority of Aussie hookers are not that great looking especially when get the clothes off.[/QUOTE]Thirty five years ago, LOL. Do you think that info might be a bit out of date.

PRC, VN, Netherlands, Germans, etc, even TGs have all been called "mechanical". Mechanical is quite common with hookers all over the globe. I don't necessarily find it a problem. Though if chemistry is created, that can change things.

As for GFE, none of these clock watching are your GF, your dreaming if you think they are, & if they were mine they certainly wouldn't be using a condom. It seems PI hookers are the best at pretending or behaving like a GF would, according to many reports, so that is the nationality to bed if that is so important to you. You won't find them in LOS. Better to stay away from the third world corrupt PI itself, though, IMO, & pick them up elsewhere, such as SG, HKG, Germany, etc. Like TGs they are all over the world & often work as maids. Saw one at my VCR hotel the other day.

Last trip to BKK had this girl who would hardly make eye contact. In the car park I got her agreement to DFK. In the room, though, she was HJ me & licking nipples a bit. I was discussing BB sex with her, but she wasn't giving it up. After I said something about her being scared of baby farang, she smiled & started one of the best kissing sessions I've ever had, like I would want with a real GF. Was that a mechanical or GFE session?

In SG I had a PRC who was DFKing, BBing, saying "I love you" repeatedly. Was that a GFE? I found her words were a distraction from my enjoyment of sex.

In BKK I've often had girls who I told them what I wanted them to do. For example sometimes I was in the mood for a long BBBJ, so I'd have them suck me for an hour or two. Was that a GFE or mechanical? It doesn't matter what you call it, since it was what I wanted & made me happy.

Sometimes I just wanted them to lay there quietly while I fucked them for an hour or two.

Of course first world Australia or Canada or SG is going to generally be more expensive than third world corrupt LOS or PI or Indonesia. That is the price you pay for being in a quality country. If you are only partaking once a month, who cares if its 20 or 200 USD. Moreover if you do your homework, you can get laid for as little as $20 in SG & $5 in Canada, & I'm sure the same could be found in the cute Kuala bear kingdom.

As for Aussie ladies mostly not looking great naked, I would say ditto for Thai PFP gals, naked or not. Or prostitutes in any of some 200 nations. Aussies would mostly be of a European appearance, if that's your thing. For me, the Koreans in Aussie land, which you won't get in BKK, would be the greater attraction.

Another legal first world safe English speaking destination I've looked at briefly is New Zealand, home of the kiwi fruit.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1656249]My experience many years ago in Geylang, was that they only wanted to give 15 or 20 min sessions to Asians, and for Farangs gave slightly more time, maybe 30 minutes, but at a higher price. Generally were Thai girls. Certainly taking a girl for 2 hours would have been several consecutive sessions and would not have worked out cheap.

Thailand was definitely much better value for longer time period sessions. Singapore was competitive only for a "quickie" which is not my style.[/QUOTE]The 15 to 30 minutes is still generally true of SG street girls, who are mostly PRC & VN, with some Indos, Thai & South Asians. If that's all a guy needs to pop, it does the trick for as little as 600 or 700 baht. In the houses you can get longer sessions, such as 45 to 60 minutes for 150 SG dollars, similar to gogo rates in BKK. I've had SG gals to my room in SG for 2 hours & paid about the same as for TGs in BKK for comparable services & looks. Some even slept over for free.

SG also has other PFP areas besides Geylang, such as Orchard Towers, also called the Four Floors of Who*res. A ST there has been quoted as low as 100 SG currency. Girls at such places include PI, Russian, etc.

So the same value as BKK can be obtained in SG, though you may have to search more to find it. Thus advantage to those who live there, are staying for a long visit or have done their homework on ISG.

Went last night to Patpong.

I finally visited Patpong last night as planned. Had a great time. I don't know why fellow mongers waste their time at Nana or cowboy as its to commercial for me. Patpong has a lot of mystery. I picked up a FL for 2000 BT last night at Twilo, the corner bar with live music. She stayed till 3 pm today. We left at 230 am once they closed. The Night market wraps up at midnight now. I remember it to be later. I also went to Kings Castle for a few beers. I tried picking up the manger Jean. She said she was to old but I didn't my as she still look good.

Star of light was closed. I wonder why. Anyway I recommend the corners bars that play live music for some FL action.

[QUOTE=Mogwai;1656354]I'm not a very regular FR poster, as writing a decent FR takes quite some time, but I will do my best.
Meanwhile I advise you to read the thread 'Chat Rooms and Pen Pals' in the Philippines section. You can learn quite a bit there!
[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?2479-Chat-Rooms-amp-Pen-Pals[/URL]

Yesterday I joined 'Line' ([URL]http://line.me/en/[/URL]), one of many chat & message applications out there. Some time ago I barfined a gorgeous agogo girl and I took some pictures of her. I wanted to send her these pictures so I texted her and asked for her email address. She replied that she hasn't got one (which I doubt, I suppose she just doesn't want to give it to me) and that I could send the pics to her Line ID. I thought 'what the heck is Line?' LOL. Never heard of it, so I googled it.

Registration was a pain in the ass because they send a verification code to your phone that you have to enter in the sign up procedure within 30 minutes. However due to a slow network or slow internet provider I received the registration code way too late and had to start all over again a couple of times. I even had to fill in a complaint form and send it to their customer service. But it helped apparently because all of a sudden the application worked.

I had already (manually) copied a dozen or so contacts from my old phone to my new smart phone. About 4 of those contacts were Thai 'girl friends' and I soon found out that they were also Line members. The application automatically matches the contact numbers in your phone with the members and they are then automatically added to your Friends List. With some undesirable results by the way. For example: some Thai mobile numbers start with 06. I am from Holland and in my country almost all mobile numbers start with 06. So you can guess what happened. One of my Dutch contact numbers matched with a Thai number so a total stranger was added to my Friends list, LOL!
But you can turn off this automatic number matching in the settings menu. And I guess if I include the country codes in my contacts' numbers the problem is also solved.

It took me some time to figure out how I could send the photos but I finally got it. I just had to start a chat session with my lovely 'girl friend' and then I could send her the photos (although I found out later that's only one of the possibilities). But before that I accidentally clicked on 'video call'. I quickly canceled it but 30 seconds later she 'video called' me back. It was about 4 PM which I presume is a good time to contact agogo or bar girls. Her English is still very limited so we only had a short 'video conference' but it was fun. Had to promise her to come to her agogo of course. Aaah, those damn promises! Nevertheless I want to have her again, but she's bloody expensive (but also worth it and I can't say that very often of an agogo girl).

One of my other 'girl friends' also started a chat pretty soon after I had signed up. She was 'angry' that I hadn't informed her yet that I was back in town, LOL. Sorry hun, I just arrived yesterday (actually 3 days ago but that's on a need to know basis, LOL!).

Today I will enter all of my Asian contacts in my new phone and I'm curious how many of them are Line members.

By the way, with Line you cannot search for new 'girl friends'. You'll need apps like Tango for that, I want to join that one too.

And when I was in Vietnam recently I tried the PC version of Tango (as I didn't have a smart phone yet) but with the PC version you cannot search for people nearby unfortunately.
But I found out that with the PC version of Tagged you can do that so I signed up and I had some modest success.
I had a few dates with a 27 yo girl in Nha Trang. She was not P4 P but slowly, surely and with a lot of patience I got her into my bed. Her face was only a 6,5 but her body was an 8 and she was horny as hell. It truly amazes me that a man in his early fifties like me can make young girls so damn horny, even if they are only 18 or 19. Although I admit I do not make ALL of them horny.
Unfortunately this girl in Nha Trang was on the rag so she didn't want to boom boom. And she didn't want to give me a BJ either because 'only sluts do that'. Damn 'good girls', LOL!

Later I came into contact with a 39 yo MILF in Saigon who was still good looking for her age. We had lunch and we spent an afternoon exploring Saigon a little bit on her bike. I thought she was not P4 P because she said she was looking for a serious relationship. I told her I was only looking for a casual contact with NSA but despite that she still wanted to meet me. OK I thought, fine with me, I will see what this leads to.
During our meeting she didn't give any signals that she was P4 P. At least that's what I thought. But looking back on it there were some subtle signals.
At the end of the afternoon she had to go back home so we said goodbye and I thought I would not see her again. But in the evening she surprised me with a text message that said something like: 'It was nice meeting you. Is there anything else I can do for you?
I replied: 'What would you like to do for me?
'Anything you want' she said. OK, that was clear.

So I invited her to come to my hotel. She said she would do that but first she had to bring a neighbour to the pagoda. In the end she never showed up and didn't respond to my texts and calls anymore. The following morning I got an excuse from her that she had been very busy and was too tired to meet me. That was a pity because I was heading for Thailand that same morning.

So here you are, a report of my first 'unstable' steps in the world of mobile internet.[/QUOTE]Everyone who spends a lot of time in Thailand should be on Line if they have a smart phone and if they don't they should buy one. Every Thai girl I know is on Line. It can also work as a mini-Facebook as many of the girl post photos of themselves on their "Homepage" on Line. If they allow you access. They can turn your access off if they want to. Once you meet a girl and she has Line you can either add them through their phone number or their Line I'd or if they are next to you it can be done with the QR Code or Shaking your phones together. Once you have Line set up on your phone you can then download the app to your PC and use that. It synchs automatically with activity on your phone. Having Line saves money on sending sms's, it's totally free as it uses the internet as its provider, allows you to call or do a video call anywhere you are as long as you have the internet and allows you to stay in touch easily no matter where you are. When I was back in the USA I would wake up every day to messages from a number of girls in Thailand and Farangs as well.

Then you should download a Translator as well and if a girl sends you a Line in Thai you can copy it by pressing your finger down on the text and choosing copy and paste it into your translator. The Translators are admittedly only good for short messages and then often just barely.

Line can be found in the Google Play Store which most smartphones will automatically have as an icon on their phone. So are social media apps like Tango and We Chat. Just hit install and follow instructions. Have your phone number on hand.

I installed Tango a month or so back but have not really been able to use it to look for girls due to present circumstances. I was really just curious how it worked. Very easily as it turns out. If your GPS is turned to On in your smart phone it will determine where you are and you can search for girls within a 10 k distance or for girls in a specific location though another option. Their photos will pop up and you can look through them in order to see which girls might be of interest to you. You can either send them a wink or a message. They will either reply or not. I have no idea what pct of the girls are interested in meeting Farangs for either professional or social or sexual purposes. I think a lot of girls just use it as yet another way to put up pictures of themselves, something Thai girls seem to love to do. Others are clearly looking for business from the photos that they do put up. Others will state that they do not want to be contacted for sexual services. I am around 60 and have put up a current photo of myself for girls to see, as they are doing a search for people just like you are. Some 15 to 20 girls have contacted me. A few of them very cute, most average at best. For what purpose I don't know but I would have to assume that most of them who are contacting a man of my age are doing it for financial reasons. When you do your search you can filter it (martini glass in top right corner) to women only. But beware Ladyboys consider themselves women and there are more than a few in there!

[QUOTE=JokerInter;1656448]Went last night to Patpong.

I finally visited Patpong last night as planned. Had a great time. I don't know why fellow mongers waste their time at Nana or cowboy as its to commercial for me. Patpong has a lot of mystery. I picked up a FL for 2000 BT last night at Twilo, the corner bar with live music. She stayed till 3 pm today. We left at 230 am once they closed. The Night market wraps up at midnight now. I remember it to be later. I also went to Kings Castle for a few beers. I tried picking up the manger Jean. She said she was to old but I didn't my as she still look good.

Star of light was closed. I wonder why. Anyway I recommend the corners bars that play live music for some FL action.[/QUOTE]There is always a concept of freaks. You might be one of them as most thin k PatPong has declined drastically over the years. I am one of them. Good you like it aS you can have it all 2 yourself.

I've been noticing lately Rainbow 4 has improved its middle of the line-up girl. Very OK to ogle for an hour. If they were able to get 3 or 4 really good lookers they would be on top again.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1656221]I'd bet more Americans go to Asia and Thailand for PFP than Nevada or Cuba or DR or CR.

So I can labour to learn Spanish to have a greater chance of being a victim of crime.
[/QUOTE]I think you'd be surprised how many Americans go to the DR and CR for P4 P. An hour or two flight from Miami or Houston. In CR all you hear is American accented English. In several trips I exclusively met Americans, while in TH running across an American is rather rare. In fact, some major computer corporations have moved their tech support from India to CR.

As far as learning Spanish, please enlighten us on your Mexico / Latin America experiences, especially as regards crime. We can compare notes.

[QUOTE=Steve7777;1631976]So what are you. Paki-american? Egyptian-American? Philipino-american? Indian-american? Mex-american?

Next time you should walk away when that happens. 20 little Thai dudes will kick your butt.

Unfortunately Rainbow 2 is one of the few top quality bars around so its not to go elsewhere.[/QUOTE]Pick what ever label you that makes you happy. Only an American will know that we don't add a prefix or a suffix. Only others do that.

The fact is, 20 little Thai little Thai dudes did not kick ass. Seems like you have soft spot for Rainbow's at Nana.

I don't recommend that most people should stand up for themselves and should just walk, as that is what they expect to happen.

[QUOTE=Steve7777;1656536]There is always a concept of freaks. You might be one of them as most thin k PatPong has declined drastically over the years. I am one of them. Good you like it aS you can have it all 2 yourself.

I've been noticing lately Rainbow 4 has improved its middle of the line-up girl. Very OK to ogle for an hour. If they were able to get 3 or 4 really good lookers they would be on top again.[/QUOTE]Thanks, I shall keep it.

The crowd at Pat-Pong is also younger mongers and backpacker type individuals. Also all lots of Russians who I actually don't mind.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1656397]Thirty five years ago, LOL. Do you think that info might be a bit out of date.
[/QUOTE]Nope. Its not 35 years since mongering in Aus. Its up to 35 years ago I can remember a few good fun Aussie girls. My first Thai girl in Aus was probably 25 years ago and that changed everything. I then found that Asian girls delivered much better service than the locals. Other foreign girls were also generally better.

Anyway don't try to think that Aussie girls will change that much, nor will prices get better.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1656696]Nope. Its not 35 years since mongering in Aus. Its up to 35 years ago I can remember a few good fun Aussie girls. My first Thai girl in Aus was probably 25 years ago and that changed everything. I then found that Asian girls delivered much better service than the locals. Other foreign girls were also generally better.

Anyway don't try to think that Aussie girls will change that much, nor will prices get better.[/QUOTE]Syzygies, absolutely spot on. The really great aussie chicks are about $350 USD per hour and work private and limit their client base. You won't find them in the parlors anymore in Aus. The last great aussie parlor girls went extinct about 2007. Very sad. There's very little new blood coming in from the Anglosaxon population. Sadly, even the Asians in the parlors aren't anywhere near the standard of Shanghai or Bangkok. There's no coming back once government interference / morality and rising tide of wealth reaches your shore.

During my last visit went to Straps at Nana plaza. It is located on first floor in the corner, just as you climb the stairs. The bar has very pretty girls and one or two ladiboys. The stage is small with 4- 5 girls dancing at time. No topless show. The girls are the prettiest I have seen in NEP.

How ever the mamasan is very pushy and rude. The moment you enter and order you drinks, you are pestered to bar fine a girl.

The bar fine rate were 2500 THB (Short time) + 500 THB lady drinks + 600 Bar Fine + 400 THB ST hotel, 3 Road floor Nana plaza. Girls not interested in coming to your hotel.

One of the girls I spoke to told me she was easily bar fine 2 - 3 times in night.

Inspite of all these warning signs couldn't resist bar fining a girl from there. (No. 77 I guess). She said her name was Moon and was a Korean.

Went to ST hotel on 3rd floor. As soon as we entered the room, the girl was all rush rush. Also had starfish attitude. Fucked her hard deliberately.

Did the deed, only solace was that the girl was a beauty.

Avoid this place it's STRAPS. The Trap.

[QUOTE=Mankav512;1656757]During my last visit went to Straps at Nana plaza. It is located on first floor in the corner, just as you climb the stairs. The bar has very pretty girls and one or two ladiboys. The stage is small with 4- 5 girls dancing at time. No topless show. The girls are the prettiest I have seen in NEP.

How ever the mamasan is very pushy and rude. The moment you enter and order you drinks, you are pestered to bar fine a girl.

The bar fine rate were 2500 THB (Short time) + 500 THB lady drinks + 600 Bar Fine + 400 THB ST hotel, 3 Road floor Nana plaza. Girls not interested in coming to your hotel.

One of the girls I spoke to told me she was easily bar fine 2 - 3 times in night.

Inspite of all these warning signs couldn't resist bar fining a girl from there. (No. 77 I guess). She said her name was Moon and was a Korean.

Went to ST hotel on 3rd floor. As soon as we entered the room, the girl was all rush rush. Also had starfish attitude. Fucked her hard deliberately.

Did the deed, only solace was that the girl was a beauty.

Avoid this place it's STRAPS. The Trap.[/QUOTE]You behaved like a tourist and got fucked like a tourist hahahaha, Look what I did for 3000 Bahts. 2 girls both willing to give blowjobs and full on sex (no anal) One girl agreed to take us to her room, which was nearby the bar. That saved me 500 Bahts on hotel. The girls took turn taking shower. Both girls gave me head for 15 minutes alternatively, while one gave me boobs the other was doing her job. Then time to ride girl 1. Rest for half hour, check emails talk a bit, a little coke and then round 2 same as round 1, just switched girl at the end. Damage 3000 Bahts.

[QUOTE=AssLover945;1656886]You behaved like a tourist and got fucked like a tourist hahahaha, Look what I did for 3000 Bahts. 2 girls both willing to give blowjobs and full on sex (no anal) One girl agreed to take us to her room, which was nearby the bar. That saved me 500 Bahts on hotel. The girls took turn taking showerahts.[/QUOTE]Yeah, let's look what you did. Where's the photo? Wait, we can well imagine.

Mankav says he got himself a beauty, a man who doesn't come to Thailand just for some ordinary looking thing, or an out of shape girl or one that's birthed and suckled. So what. Good for him and better luck with the next one.

[QUOTE=Mankav512;1656757]During my last visit went to Straps at Nana plaza. It is located on first floor in the corner, just as you climb the stairs. The bar has very pretty girls and one or two ladiboys. The stage is small with 4- 5 girls dancing at time. No topless show. The girls are the prettiest I have seen in NEP.

How ever the mamasan is very pushy and rude. The moment you enter and order you drinks, you are pestered to bar fine a girl.

The bar fine rate were 2500 THB (Short time) + 500 THB lady drinks + 600 Bar Fine + 400 THB ST hotel, 3 Road floor Nana plaza. Girls not interested in coming to your hotel.

One of the girls I spoke to told me she was easily bar fine 2 - 3 times in night.

Inspite of all these warning signs couldn't resist bar fining a girl from there. (No. 77 I guess). She said her name was Moon and was a Korean.

Went to ST hotel on 3rd floor. As soon as we entered the room, the girl was all rush rush. Also had starfish attitude. Fucked her hard deliberately.

Did the deed, only solace was that the girl was a beauty.

Avoid this place it's STRAPS. The Trap.[/QUOTE]I hope it was a girl. Perhaps Straps has changed since I walked by a few months back but back then it was about 90% Ladyboys and 10% girls. Good to know if this has changed.

[QUOTE=DRRonin;1656908]I hope it was a girl. Perhaps Straps has changed since I walked by a few months back but back then it was about 90% Ladyboys and 10% girls. Good to know if this has changed.[/QUOTE]Perhaps that's why they call its "straps"! Because everyone is strapped! Haha!

[QUOTE=DRRonin;1656908]I hope it was a girl. Perhaps Straps has changed since I walked by a few months back but back then it was about 90% Ladyboys and 10% girls. Good to know if this has changed.[/QUOTE]LOL, It is true that Straps is ladyboy bar. I found it on other website same information that's why went to Anglewitch instead of Straps but that was few months ago.

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1656623]I think you'd be surprised how many Americans go to the DR and CR for P4 P. An hour or two flight from Miami or Houston. In CR all you hear is American accented English. In several trips I exclusively met Americans, while in TH running across an American is rather rare. In fact, some major computer corporations have moved their tech support from India to CR.[/QUOTE]The vast majority of Americans visiting Cuba are Cubans visiting family, not to engage in PFP.

More Canadians go to Cuba than Americans. Canada has a population a small fraction of the size of the USA.

Way more Americans visit Thailand than Cuba. Especially non Cuban Americans.

The airfare for a Canadian to visit Cuba costs about the same as going to Bangkok. From Vancouver, near Seattle, it is more expensive to fly to Cuba. And BTW 70 percent more expensive to go to Brazil than BKK.

"Cuba is the only country in the world the USA Government restricts its own citizens from visiting. Americans can go to Burma, Iran, even North Korea if those places give them a visa. ".

[URL]http://www.npr.org/2012/02/06/146474813/u-s-travel-to-cuba-grows-as-restrictions-are-eased[/URL]

"Tourist travel to Cuba is prohibited under USA Law for citizens and others under USA Jurisdiction.

"Authorized travelers to Cuba are subject to daily spending limits. See the Office of Foreign Assets Control page of the USA Department of the Treasury. ".

[URL]http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/country/cuba.html[/URL]

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1656696]Nope. Its not 35 years since mongering in Aus. Its up to 35 years ago I can remember a few good fun Aussie girls. My first Thai girl in Aus was probably 25 years ago and that changed everything. I then found that Asian girls delivered much better service than the locals. Other foreign girls were also generally better.

Anyway don't try to think that Aussie girls will change that much, nor will prices get better.[/QUOTE]No doubt there are still plenty of "fun Aussie girls" two generations after your experience. It's a huge country. One just needs to find them, & that's where ISG can help.

Who would have thought you could get FS from a hot young lady for 20 USD in SG? Or 10 dollars in Canada.

BTW I'm sure the sex worker HIV & STI rates in Australia are significantly lower than in Thailand or Asia in general.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1656408]The 15 to 30 minutes is still generally true of SG street girls, who are mostly PRC & VN, with some Indos, Thai & South Asians. If that's all a guy needs to pop, it does the trick for as little as 600 or 700 baht. In the houses you can get longer sessions, such as 45 to 60 minutes for 150 SG dollars, similar to gogo rates in BKK. I've had SG gals to my room in SG for 2 hours & paid about the same as for TGs in BKK for comparable services & looks. Some even slept over for free.

SG also has other PFP areas besides Geylang, such as Orchard Towers, also called the Four Floors of Who*res. A ST there has been quoted as low as 100 SG currency. Girls at such places include PI, Russian, etc.

So the same value as BKK can be obtained in SG, though you may have to search more to find it. Thus advantage to those who live there, are staying for a long visit or have done their homework on ISG.[/QUOTE]Pink, we certainly agree on SG. It is a great place to monger these days. Lots of variety. Also some great food around Geylang.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1656221]I'd bet more Americans go to Asia and Thailand for PFP than Nevada or Cuba or DR or CR.

So I can labour to learn Spanish to have a greater chance of being a victim of crime.

Or I can keep spending half my time in LOS as I have done for years & know about 3 words of Thai.

The subject was Canada. From its North Pole to the freezing tip of South America is, I guess, further & more expensive than to go than from Vancouver to LOS. I never experienced jet lag on such a trip.

To each their own. Apparently Brazil is more expensive than LOS, besides its other deficiences.

Koreans would be a big incentive to go to Australia. Like having a Japanese who I consider the hottest anywhere. I've had them in Canada when PFP was legal as they used to be quite abundant there. You won't be getting any in LOS.[/QUOTE]Pink, Americans are staying in their hemisphere for mongering. Most always have. Why? Because most Americans have very little vacation. So a quick trip to the DR or CR is just right. Plus it is cheaper and again, no jet lag.

[QUOTE=Daddy07;1656307]You are far too modest, Goat. You've beaten the game and deserve great admiration and congratulations from all dedicated pussy mongers. I trust that you realize the rarity of your situation and just how lucky you are. Most women on this planet will not be content to let their boy friends have their cake and eat it too.

As for me, I don't think I could manage it even if it fell into my lap. I enjoy my solitude way to much and just don't have time for any relationship with a woman that lasts for more than 1 hour at a time. I have a number of great regulars for that purpose and it suits me fine. They come over, we have our "fun," I pay them, and they leave. Don't need more company than that.[/QUOTE]Nothing special really, but thanks. Most of the guys I know here (long term expats) have the same that I do. To tell you the truth if anything ever happens to me and the gal that I am with now then I think your system will suit me fine. I enjoy solitude more and more as I age. Of course my gal does as well! So that makes it even better.

[QUOTE=Golfinho;1656903]Yeah, let's look what you did. Where's the photo? Wait, we can well imagine.

Mankav says he got himself a beauty, a man who doesn't come to Thailand just for some ordinary looking thing, or an out of shape girl or one that's birthed and suckled. So what. Good for him and better luck with the next one.[/QUOTE]My thought Exactly. Some guys are lucky in that looks don't matter. 3000 bahts for 2 girls must mean they weren't all that boo-ti full.

A great quote about Thai women. Well I guess it can apply to women from many different places.

"It is always about the money, but it is not always just about the money. " I concur.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1656989]The vast majority of Americans visiting Cuba are Cubans visiting family, not to engage in PFP.

More Canadians go to Cuba than Americans. Canada has a population a small fraction of the size of the USA.

Way more Americans visit Thailand than Cuba. Especially non Cuban Americans.

The airfare for a Canadian to visit Cuba costs about the same as going to Bangkok. From Vancouver, near Seattle, it is more expensive to fly to Cuba. And BTW 70 percent more expensive to go to Brazil than BKK.

"Cuba is the only country in the world the USA Government restricts its own citizens from visiting. Americans can go to Burma, Iran, even North Korea if those places give them a visa. ".

[URL]http://www.npr.org/2012/02/06/146474813/u-s-travel-to-cuba-grows-as-restrictions-are-eased[/URL]

"Tourist travel to Cuba is prohibited under USA Law for citizens and others under USA Jurisdiction.

"Authorized travelers to Cuba are subject to daily spending limits. See the Office of Foreign Assets Control page of the USA Department of the Treasury. ".

[URL]http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/country/cuba.html[/URL][/QUOTE]Who the hell said anything about Cuba? Costa Rica, Dominican Republic, Mexico, Jamaica, Aruba, just to name a few places, have loads of Americans. And there is a lot of P4 P in these places. It's far easier to get to these places from the USA than it is to BKK. Virtually everybody I've ever talked to blanches at the thought of 17+ hours in an airplane, plus a few hours in layovers. And, as The Goat said, most Americans only get 2 weeks of vacation. Travel to SEA eats up about 3 days of that, and the eastbound jet lag can be brutal for some folks.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1657011]Pink, Americans are staying in their hemisphere for mongering. Most always have. Why? Because most Americans have very little vacation. So a quick trip to the DR or CR is just right. Plus it is cheaper and again, no jet lag.[/QUOTE]Others are going to Germany to monger. Not the cheapest but not the most expensive either, I guess its just they want to do East European girls. Maybe it can be mixed in with business trips.

ST with Mint. Has worked at Bacara just 4 days. I actually know her from previously. She certainly doesn't fit well at Bacara. Pretty by Farang spec. Black hair, skin a little bit dark but just mid tone for me. Japanese don't go for her. Very beautiful tits all real but only A cups. Very beautiful pussy. All natural, no nose job. Slim but curvy. Teeth braces. She is good for GFE with me. Sorry don't yet know the working number, however she should stand out against the rest.

Since Bacara is so Japanese dominated, she may have to move to another shop, with more Farangs.

Be very wary over police shakedowns at the moment. Seems to happen a lot in upper Sukhumvit. So from Asoke area up to Thonglor (So Soi 19 upwards).

[URL]http://www.smh.com.au/world/bangkok-tourists-caught-up-in-shakedown-20141212-125voa.html[/URL]

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1657116]Who the hell said anything about Cuba? Costa Rica, Dominican Republic, Mexico, Jamaica, Aruba, just to name a few places, have loads of Americans. And there is a lot of P4 P in these places. It's far easier to get to these places from the USA than it is to BKK. Virtually everybody I've ever talked to blanches at the thought of 17+ hours in an airplane, plus a few hours in layovers. And, as The Goat said, most Americans only get 2 weeks of vacation. Travel to SEA eats up about 3 days of that, and the eastbound jet lag can be brutal for some folks.[/QUOTE]If you've been following the discussion, Goatscrot spoke of 5 areas including South America & Cuba etc.

As for CR, as I've mentioned before, I know an American who lived there but moved to Pattaya. He's been in LOS a few years now, loves it & prefers it over CR.

Americans don't need to go to any of the places you list. They have loads of PFP or PFT options in their own country without paying airfares to travel for hours to strange lands. The vast majority get their fun on US soil & contribute back to the economy there.

If they happen to choose relatively dangerous Brazil over LOS, they've also chosen a country that presents greater language issues & a much higher HIV rate. From the NW USA the trip to Brazil will also be more expensive. Brazil is a more popular hobbying destination than any of those you mentioned, LOS excepted.

Jamaica is popular for ladies looking to pay for sex with Jamaican men. PFP is illegal there. The USA has a large black population so I can see how Jamaica & DR might draw a lot of Americans, especially as many places such as LOS are prejudiced against them.

Do guys really buy out new off the farm prostitutes out of the bar? And if they do -what do they do with them? No fake dating or living together first?

Anyone read Stickman in which he interview 3 escorts. Just as delusional as some men are. They are not like agogo prostitutes- they are much better.

What puzzles me is the income, 100,000-300,000 baht is normal? I highly doubt it. Can someone confirm.

Rainbow 4 has also a lot of below average new faces on board. I think they are marketing to the farang. Or maybe they just taking anyone who cares to get on stage.

I arrived at BKK about 10 pm on the third Wednesday of November. It took less than an hours to retrieve my bag, go through immigration and get a taxi. Fifteen minutes later we pulled up to the Sofitel on Sukhumvit. I had no problem with the fare. The meter was on, as has always been the case when I come in from the airport. Occasionally, going to BKK has been another matter. I like the new system for taxis. There is a machine that prints out a ticket you give to the taxi and you're off.

Here are some of my general experiences and impressions.

My hotel was much busier than in June. The customer relations manager told me most of their guest are in town on business and the hotel hosts many business functions. He conceded business had been terrible in June but quite good now and they anticipated a good high season based on scheduled events and room bookings. Though it was before the beginning of the official high season there seemed to be more tourists than last December when the protests were in their early stage. However, a very reliable source tells me the business at the oily MPs is very slow and some of the girls are temporarily leaving for foreign destinations hoping business is better there.

The gogo bars have changed dramatically. In June I saw a lot of nudity. Then the girls at Crazy House were hot and mostly buck naked. So I went there on my first night out this trip, which was a Thursday, and was surprised to see that Crazy House had turned into a dog house. All the girls were wearing bikini tops and a G-string covered by a micro skirt. On that night they were the sorriest looking collection of girls I saw in any gogo I visited on the trip. Within minutes after walking in I was surprised to discover the lady I bar fined there in June recognized me, remembered my name and was eager for me to BF her again. I told her up front I'd like to have a couple of drinks with her and chat a bit, but was not going to BF anyone that night. She was cool and we sat and talked. Soon the person she referred to as the big manager joined us and we chatted about business. The three of us had sat together and talked in June. The manager said business was tough and they now had to deal with the army not the police, which the manager said was a particular problem for them. They were having a difficult time with the army, and of course a couple weeks later there was the one day crack down on the MPs. The manager told me there was no nudity anywhere on Soi Cowboy, all the too young girls were long gone, and with no nudity the BFs were way down. Several of the dancers I talked to in various venues confirmed no nudity meant fewer BFs for the ladies. I said nothing to the CH manager about the talent on stage, but the decline in quality was very obvious. While on my last trip the girl I BFed was below average, this night she was the best looking girl at the venue, or rather woman in her case as she admits to being in her thirties.

After a couple of drinks I headed out for Soi Cowboy. At the entrance off Soi 23 I encounter several dozen police officers milling around the entrance. I had to walk through them to enter the soi. Though they paid no attention to me, having to walk through a score or more of cops was not a nice way to begin one's stroll through Soi Cowboy. I'm sure that's what they had in mind.

I walked into and out of the first few bars. I saw the same as in CH, less than stunning ladies dressed the same as the girls at CH. Finally I worked my way down to Doll House. The downstairs has been remodeled. The upstairs was a work in progress. No sooner did I sit down than Boa, the girl I BFed in June walked up to me and again I was greeted by name. What the fuck? Aside from the lack of talent, being recognized by the girl in CH and greeted by name was one of the reason I left. Now I'm immediately recognized in DH. "What the hell," I thought. I recognized her immediately as well, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I liked Boa and like the lady at CH her English is quite good, so I asked her to join me for a couple of lady drinks and a chat. Boa got the attention of one of the servers who took and filled our order and then sat with us, which was fine with me as she was the prettiest lady I saw anywhere that evening. After chatting for a few minutes Boa asked if I was staying at the same hotel, which she said she really liked, and suggested I take her and the drink service lady back to my room for a threesome. Now that was a first for me. I've never seen such an attractive lady taking drink orders in a gogo; and it had never been suggested to me that I BF a lady serving drinks. Remembering that I had a good time with Boa and considering that the drink girl was rather hot I was tempted. So I asked if they had done threesomes together before. No was the answer. I then asked if they had ever licked each other's pussies. That got a laugh and another no. Figuring this would end up with me paying twice as much and each girl working half as hard I said I'd come back on another night and take them up on their offer. I lied. I had no intention of going back.

That was enough of Soi Cowboy for one night. Over the next two weeks I walked through it several times on my way to eating at the Love Scene, which is now one of my hangouts, but I didn't bother going into any of the bars again. I didn't see such a large police presence again, but on each subsequent visit the police were conspicuous and I often saw two and three police officers walk together through Soi Cowboy on patrol. Oh, and after being recognized at CH and DH, I decided to skip Suzy Wong altogether.

Over the next two weeks I visited Nana Plaza several times. I preferred Soi Cowboy in June, but not this trip. I saw police at the entrance of the plaza, but fewer in number and never walking around inside. Compared to Soi Cowboy, Nana Plaza had better looking ladies showing more skin. I visited RB1, 3 & 4. RB4 had ladies dancing topless. The other two did not. RB3 had an average lineup. RB1&4 had relatively good lineups. RB4, and RB1 to a lesser degree, had a number of Japanese customers. Still, I found the ladies gave me plenty of attention and clearly wanted me to BF them. Perhaps simply because business was slow, but in June I also got plenty of attention at these venues, but then business was also very slow. At RB1, which was my favorite venue on this trip, I ran into Moojie. I spotted her first, but she immediately recognized me when I called out her name. She also remembered our over the top porn movie reenactment and commented that it was fun and hilarious. We ended up hooking up three times and had an absolute blast together. I will cover our antics in another report. I stopped in Spanky's a couple of times. It was as fun as ever. The lineup is average looking, but the girls there have more fun than those in any other bar I visited. There was also plenty of topless dancing and more than a little full nudity there. I also stopped into Mercury for a drink. They have good beverage service with generous pours, good prices and a selection of decent whiskies. The lineup is average, but the girls are friendly.

Unlike on visits a couple of years ago, none of the girls in any of the bars approached me and requested I buy them a LD. Even the girls who remembered me from June just said Hello, and did not push getting treated to a drink, though I offered to buy each lady a couple of drinks.

Late at night the sidewalks from Soi 15 going towards Terminal 21 are lined with food stands, pop-up bars and FLs, a number of which are LBs. I had several very early morning meals at one of the food stands. As for the LBs, they were easy to spot and avoid. Many grabbed my arm as I walked buy. I just pulled my arm away, ignored them and kept walking. I don't like getting pawed and wasn't going to even acknowledge them by making eye contact. As for the FLs, they ranged from not worth it to okay looking. None were even close to stunning, but a few were fuckable. I also saw some attractive ladies hanging out around Thermae, which is next door to my hotel. Many, but not all had too much plastic surgery, and some were made up to appeal to the Japanese customers, which though amusing does not appeal to me. However, more than a few were at least decent looking and a few were quite attractive. Inside I observed the same as in June, lots of attractive FLs and many patrons who appeared to be Japanese. Many of the ladies standing close to the entrance established eye contact and smiled invitingly when I walked in. As was the case in June, it seemed to me that a farang would have no problem scoring an attractive FL there if he wanted to.

Finally, I have no idea where you find them, but there are SW in Bangkok that look as good as the best looking pretties at Siam Paragon and the models you see on the billboards and video screens. Early one evening as I sat in my hotel's lobby waiting for BKKMick I saw two ladies walk in together. Their dress and manner made it obvious they were high-end escorts. I watched them go over to the concierge desk and after waiting a minute or so get escorted to the elevators. On another occasions I was having a drink in the hotel's bar on the 32nd floor and saw two men walk in, separately, each accompanied by an escort as attractive as the two I saw in the lobby. Again the ladies' dress and manner made their occupation clear. Both of the men looked to be in their mid-forties, were clean cut, average looking, dressed in expensive smart casual clothes and oozed success and self-confidence. Finally, in the wee hours one morning I was sitting in the hotel lobby reading the Financial Times. Over the course of about thirty minutes I watched three escorts walk from the direction of the elevators through the lobby and out the hotel's entrance. All seven of the ladies I saw on these three occasions were 9's. So they are out there. But where? I've never seen a lady in a gogo, MP or from an escort agency who could hold a candle to any of these seven ladies.

I had less time for mongering on this trip so there will be just three more reports coming, hopefully sooner and not later. One will be on another night with BKKMick and four ladies. A second will be a report about a fantastic threesome with Ice, who is now at Tulip working as Lisa, and a new 20 year old at Tulip named Joupjang. Then I'll finish with a report on my three escapades with Moojie.

I also spent a few days vacationing in Macau in between taking care of some business in Bangkok and Hong Kong. There I visited two saunas, Familia Nobre and Rio. I will write one report about the two visits on the Macau Sauna Reviews thread.

Paul, thanks for the overview and a preview of coming attractions! Hehehe.

Was just reading your July trip report (again) about the threesome / sixsome and it really helped with planning my own upcoming trip in early January. I don't think I have the stamina for a threesome but it's always nice to know more about the ladies.

BTW, have you noticed that the Cherry Massage site seems to be only a one pager now? Or do I have the wrong link somehow?

Best!

[QUOTE=Danibbler;1657309]Paul, thanks for the overview and a preview of coming attractions! Hehehe.[/QUOTE]Here's a brief preview that is pertinent to your comments.

My threesome with Ice and Joupjang was in it's own way as good an experience as the orgy with BKKMick and the four ladies. To give you a sneak preview of the report, Ice is lesbian and had the hots for Joupang. The evening consisted of me assisting Ice and Ice assisting me to absolutely ravage a very curious and eager 20 year old. It was almost as much fun to watch Ice and Joupjang as it was to fuck Joupjang. I highly recommend a MFF when there is enthusiastic lesbian action as there was in our threesome.

In contrast the last orgy turned out to be two threesomes. Overall it was a great night, but none of the ladies were lesbian or bisexual, which completely changed what transpired.

Moojie is a little tigress and we had a blast together. Coincidentally, the night before we first hooked up she did her first MFF with a farang couple and loved it. She described considerable hardcore lesbian action which she thoroughly enjoyed. She made it clear in the future she would only be interested in lesbian action with farang women. Others have told me the same. Some Thai women who are into farang women wouldn't think of going down on a Thai woman.

I've noticed the same about the Cherry website. I do know a few of the Cherry ladies are out of the country looking for more business. That may have something to do with it.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1656989]The vast majority of Americans visiting Cuba are Cubans visiting family, not to engage in PFP.

More Canadians go to Cuba than Americans. Canada has a population a small fraction of the size of the USA.

Way more Americans visit Thailand than Cuba. Especially non Cuban Americans.

The airfare for a Canadian to visit Cuba costs about the same as going to Bangkok. From Vancouver, near Seattle, it is more expensive to fly to Cuba. And BTW 70 percent more expensive to go to Brazil than BKK.

"Cuba is the only country in the world the USA Government restricts its own citizens from visiting. Americans can go to Burma, Iran, even North Korea if those places give them a visa. ".

[URL]http://www.npr.org/2012/02/06/146474813/u-s-travel-to-cuba-grows-as-restrictions-are-eased[/URL]

"Tourist travel to Cuba is prohibited under USA Law for citizens and others under USA Jurisdiction.

"Authorized travelers to Cuba are subject to daily spending limits. See the Office of Foreign Assets Control page of the USA Department of the Treasury. ".

[URL]http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/country/cuba.html[/URL][/QUOTE]"The airfare for a Canadian to visit Cuba costs about the same as going to Bangkok. From Vancouver, near Seattle, it is more expensive to fly to Cuba. ".

Curious as to where you got your airfare quotes. Vancouver to BKK 16 hours, varies from about the same to higher than Vancouver-Cuba 11 hours via Westjet. Toronto-Cuba via Westjet way less, flying time is 6 hours to Cuba versus 20 hours Toronto-BKK. I flew Westjet Vancouver to Cuba in June on Westjet and flying Vancouver to BKK in January on China Air. Both fares were $1000 cad, conversion at today's rate wud be $870 usd.

[QUOTE=PaulKausch;1657300]1...The gogo bars have changed dramatically. In June I saw a lot of nudity. Then the girls at Crazy House were hot and mostly buck naked. So I went there on my first night out this trip, which was a Thursday, and was surprised to see that Crazy House had turned into a dog house. On that night they were the sorriest looking collection of girls I saw in any gogo I visited on the trip


2...Many of the ladies standing close to the entrance established eye contact and smiled invitingly when I walked in. As was the case in June, it seemed to me that a farang would have no problem scoring an attractive FL there if he wanted to.

<<<because you got smiled at, you fantasized you could have scored>>>?


3...Finally, I have no idea where you find them, but there are SW in Bangkok that look as good as the best looking pretties at Siam Paragon report.

<<<have a taxi take you on a drive down Makkasan at say 11 p.m.>>.. [/QUOTE]1<changed? Dramatically?Sure. Right. At what time at CH might this have been would be useful information. The good ones don't last long and like everywhere, what's left over later are the dregs.

[QUOTE=Bart1;1657333]"The airfare for a Canadian to visit Cuba costs about the same as going to Bangkok. From Vancouver, near Seattle, it is more expensive to fly to Cuba. ".

Curious as to where you got your airfare quotes. Vancouver to BKK 16 hours, varies from about the same to higher than Vancouver-Cuba 11 hours via Westjet. Toronto-Cuba via Westjet way less, flying time is 6 hours to Cuba versus 20 hours Toronto-BKK. I flew Westjet Vancouver to Cuba in June on Westjet and flying Vancouver to BKK in January on China Air. Both fares were $1000 cad, conversion at today's rate wud be $870 usd.[/QUOTE]Flight duration & distances don't necessarily tell us what routes will have a higher price. For example CP was charging a certain rate for a one way from HKG to VCR. I got the same price for the trip from SG to BKK to HKG to VCR. Moreover it included a return trip to BKK via HKG!

To use another example, on the following site a quote for a trip to BKK from NY city is 882 USD, yet 943 USD from Seattle.

[URL]http://www.alternativeairlines.com/[/URL]

According to the same source you can get a late April 2015 trip from VCR to BKK for 837 USD. To Havana, Cuba instead, at the same time, it listed $977.

[QUOTE=PaulKausch;1657329]Here's a brief preview that is pertinent to your comments.

My threesome with Ice and Joupjang was in it's own way as good an experience as the orgy with BKKMick and the four ladies. To give you a sneak preview of the report, Ice is lesbian and had the hots for Joupang. The evening consisted of me assisting Ice and Ice assisting me to absolutely ravage a very curious and eager 20 year old. It was almost as much fun to watch Ice and Joupjang as it was to fuck Joupjang. I highly recommend a MFF when there is enthusiastic lesbian action as there was in our threesome.

[/QUOTE]Didn't have Tulip on my TDL but hrmmm.

I was thinking of bringing in Bamboo girls to my hotel (Grand Millenium) but, boy, are we spoilt for choice!

I don't think its the prices that keep Americans from going to BKK. Its how long it takes.

[QUOTE=ThePro;1657144]Be very wary over police shakedowns at the moment. Seems to happen a lot in upper Sukhumvit. So from Asoke area up to Thonglor (So Soi 19 upwards).

[URL]http://www.smh.com.au/world/bangkok-tourists-caught-up-in-shakedown-20141212-125voa.html[/URL][/QUOTE]Thank you for posting this. Does anyone here have any experience with this? It is sometimes difficult to know whether media reports are overblown, or portray things accurately.

[QUOTE=PaulKausch;1657329]I've noticed the same about the Cherry website. I do know a few of the Cherry ladies are out of the country looking for more business. That may have something to do with it.[/QUOTE]I sent an email to Cherry a few hours ago and they responded extremely quickly with a very informative reply listing services and prices. They also attached a pdf with their current roster.

They said that their site should be back up in 2-3 weeks.

I will travel to Bangkok in February with my girlfriend but I have only one night free to escape and to enjoy the night in Bangkok without her.

For that night I have US $250 dollars to spend in a good Thai pussy (or two), so please what place do you recommend to have a good experience with a Thai girl? W I'm looking for full.

Service, DFK and DATY if is possible. I have only one opportunity to live the Thai experience so in advance

Thanks!

[QUOTE=Steve7777;1657261]Anyone read Stickman in which he interview 3 escorts. Just as delusional as some men are. They are not like agogo prostitutes- they are much better.

What puzzles me is the income, 100,000-300,000 baht is normal? I highly doubt it. Can someone confirm.

[/QUOTE]I read this as well and am skeptical. I know a few fls who are also on escort sites and they all told me that they are lucky if they get more than a few assignations a month thru the site. Thus still freelancing. But just running thru the numbers it seems unlikely that most escorts make this kind of money. Most escorts charge 5000 baht a session of which they keep 2500. So for 100,000 that would be 40 sessions a month. For 300,000 baht that would be 120 sessions a month. There are a ton of escort services out there so it is hard to figure that many girls would get that many sessions especially as most of them don't look that great on the websites even with photoshop aiding them (I confess to booking an escort girl one time. It was the same girl as the photo but 1/3 as good looking). But I guess from time to time they get the big spenders or guys who take them all day or all week and that is a huge charge. Perhaps a few top girls at elite escort services do well but I would guess that most do not. But this opinion is just that. But if those girls that Stickman interviewed with a photo of each are making that kind of money, then every working girl in Thailand should be in the escort business.

[QUOTE=Golfinho;1657338]The good ones don't last long and like everywhere, what's left over later are the dregs.[/QUOTE]I was there about 9 pm; the stage was packed; I intentionally mentioned I was there only one night and that it was a Thursday night in late November.

Work Girls earnings vary tremendously. It is of course the multiplication of the number of customers by the price per occasion.

A top bargirl can make very far in excess of 100 K per month sometimes approaching 200 K. Why? She might do 2 STs in the evening at 2. 5 K or 3 K followed by a late LT booking on a good night, or even 4 STs sometimes. Takes many ST customers in a room above bar. Some guys blow their load quite quickly. She doesn't do 2 shots unless the customer pays extra. She is hard working and takes just a few days off per month. May take her first ST of evening as early as 6:30 PM. In contrast other bargirls are getting BFed quite rarely. They just cannot compete with the stunning and charming girls.

An Oily girl probably makes about 1400 per booking, so to make big money, has to take more customers.

A BJ Bar girl gets only half of a very low fee per BJ. So has to do a very large number of customers to make big money, or get some good tips. Amazingly some customers try to get BJ and sex for just the 1 K, where girl probably only gets half of it. Ridiculous. Girls can boost earnings by VIP or off for the night providing customer is not too stingy.

I don't know much about how much business escort girls can get so won't comment.

[QUOTE=DRRonin;1657444]I read this as well and am skeptical. I know a few fls who are also on escort sites and they all told me that they are lucky if they get more than a few assignations a month thru the site. Thus still freelancing. But just running thru the numbers it seems unlikely that most escorts make this kind of money. Most escorts charge 5000 baht a session of which they keep 2500. So for 100,000 that would be 40 sessions a month. For 300,000 baht that would be 120 sessions a month.[/QUOTE]As always, one would expect a huge gulf between the earnings of a very ordinary escort girl and one that is in high demand.

[QUOTE=PaulKausch;1657300]The gogo bars have changed dramatically. In June I saw a lot of nudity. Then the girls at Crazy House were hot and mostly buck naked. So I went there on my first night out this trip, which was a Thursday, and was surprised to see that Crazy House had turned into a dog house. All the girls were wearing bikini tops and a G-string covered by a micro skirt. On that night they were the sorriest looking collection of girls I saw in any gogo I visited on the trip.[/QUOTE]I am shocked. This is from someone with not such a high standard for ladies (based on the thick, flat assed, siliconed Nun at SW). LOL. Maybe you don't go for all the really slim girls at Crazy House that might appeal to me.

It was just a temporary aberration. Nudity is back. Some young girls are probably back. Friday and Saturday nights sees an influx of extra girls on no salary that boosts the line up. Good girls get BFed early, so line up deteriorates particularly on weaker days. This bar is packed out with customers by 8:30 PM. You would be crazy to arrive late. Some girl (s) previously doing nude dancing, and very good looking, have changed to clothed PR front of house work. Some of the very hottest girls disappeared or are now seen rarely. One such girl was Nut with a 10 body including high natural see+ cups, and a 9 point face, and one of the good ones on the bed. Finished with her Tom girlfriend and disappeared from the bar a few months back. Would have booked her regularly if she kept coming. Line up for sure is down a bit from last June, but still packs the customers in very early in the night. There are some really great looking slim girls still there at times. Still more better looking natural girls than the other bars in Cowboy, if you don't need big tits. Even the Coyote bars I have been in don't really have more than 2 or 3 stunners. However my standard is set very high.

I will take a look in Baccara tonight if Mint is working (a very pretty natural girl), as I normally hate the "alien" look of most Baccara girls.

[QUOTE=Steve7777;1657261]Do guys really buy out new off the farm prostitutes out of the bar? And if they do -what do they do with them? No fake dating or living together first?

What puzzles me is the income, 100,000-300,000 baht is normal? I highly doubt it. Can someone confirm.[/QUOTE]I've heard of a few guys taking fresh girls from bars, mainly related to me by bar owners as they are now down a staff member. I wouldn't say it is common but it happens. There is a buy-out fee payable to the bar, I was told what it was but can't remember now. Old age is getting to me.

I'd be skeptical about the income. 100,000 I could believe if they were sponsored by an OS boyfriend or two, but then they probably wouldn't bother being in the industry much as this is a pretty high income.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1657477]Work Girls earnings vary tremendously. It is of course the multiplication of the number of customers by the price per occasion.

A top bargirl can make very far in excess of 100 K per month sometimes approaching 200 K. Why? She might do 2 STs in the evening at 2. 5 K or 3 K followed by a late LT booking on a good night, or even 4 STs sometimes. Takes many ST customers in a room above bar. Some guys blow their load quite quickly. She doesn't do 2 shots unless the customer pays extra. She is hard working and takes just a few days off per month. May take her first ST of evening as early as 6:30 PM. In contrast other bargirls are getting BFed quite rarely. They just cannot compete with the stunning and charming girls.

An Oily girl probably makes about 1400 per booking, so to make big money, has to take more customers.

A BJ Bar girl gets only half of a very low fee per BJ. So has to do a very large number of customers to make big money, or get some good tips. Amazingly some customers try to get BJ and sex for just the 1 K, where girl probably only gets half of it. Ridiculous. Girls can boost earnings by VIP or off for the night providing customer is not too stingy.

I don't know much about how much business escort girls can get so won't comment.[/QUOTE]You must be losing it. I find it hard to believe populars girls who get barfined everyday-no matter Hi or low season, Hi water or low water are willing to top off the night with a long time. Or go cruising as a FL at a dingy disco.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1657477]Work Girls earnings vary tremendously. It is of course the multiplication of the number of customers by the price per occasion.

A top bargirl can make very far in excess of 100 K per month sometimes approaching 200 K. Why? She might do 2 STs in the evening at 2. 5 K or 3 K followed by a late LT booking on a good night, or even 4 STs sometimes. Takes many ST customers in a room above bar. Some guys blow their load quite quickly. She doesn't do 2 shots unless the customer pays extra. She is hard working and takes just a few days off per month. May take her first ST of evening as early as 6:30 PM. In contrast other bargirls are getting BFed quite rarely. They just cannot compete with the stunning and charming girls.

An Oily girl probably makes about 1400 per booking, so to make big money, has to take more customers.

A BJ Bar girl gets only half of a very low fee per BJ. So has to do a very large number of customers to make big money, or get some good tips. Amazingly some customers try to get BJ and sex for just the 1 K, where girl probably only gets half of it. Ridiculous. Girls can boost earnings by VIP or off for the night providing customer is not too stingy.

I don't know much about how much business escort girls can get so won't comment.[/QUOTE]I know one massage girl from a massage place in Soi 4.

Normal Thai massage is 500 thb, she gets half, she is working 6 days per week from 2 pm to 2 am, and has between 5-8 customers a day, so it is around 1500 thb per day. But her real earnings are for the extra service.

Soi 4 is actually very expensive for that. She charge 500 for handjob or 1000 for blowjob, sex is not allowed in there. She tells me that around 3-4 blowjob per day (3-4000 thb).

That means around 4000 per day x 6 days per week = 24000 x4 weeks = 96000 per month. She is an normal average massage girl 28 years.

I bet many don't earn that amount in US or Europe.

[QUOTE=Steve7777;1657499]You must be losing it. I find it hard to believe populars girls who get barfined everyday-no matter Hi or low season, Hi water or low water are willing to top off the night with a long time. Or go cruising as a FL at a dingy disco.[/QUOTE]I am not losing it. I know one very highly in demand bargirl. She literally has problems with several repeat customers all showing up and wanting her at the same time. The mamasan has to say to them "take a number" in the queue. She doesn't have to go to lousy disco and waste her time. She has many customers pre-booking her. I have been just one of her customers. She says that she very rarely has to take a new customer, as she has so many regular customers. This is an exceptional abnormal case. I only use it to illustrate that a top bargirl can earn big money. Baccara has top girls that do 3 STs a night on a very regular basis too. Many of the Japanese customers live here.

I am in Thailand for total of 4 months per year. Seasons has nothing to do with it. I may be missing in the peak tourist season somewhat.

Have you never been to Rainbow 4 and seen the hottest girls there, leave with a customer, return 30 mins later, and soon be leaving with another customer? I go there very rarely but I have witnessed the girls that work a procession of customers.

I am going to change my tune dramatically about Crazy House. There has been a very disturbing trend there. Quite a number of girls appear to have got recent nose jobs. I don't know if there is some bulk discount going.

To me this just makes the girls look less Thai, less feminine and even less human. They could be a bunch of aliens. The acceleration in nose jobs is dramatic. Its a copycat fashion. Girls that previously had beautiful noses to my taste have now lost the slight up curve. I am now really struggling to find many beautiful and 100% natural girls. Fortunately the number of silicone boobs has not taken off that dramatically. However I am thinking this bar is soon going to have mostly girls that look similar to the Baccara alien look. One girl looked decidedly like a LB, however I was assured she was not and had a real pussy. I suppose to be fair, the hairstyles are generally still not as ridiculous as a Baccara or Rainbow 4.

I could swear that when I first attended Crazy House the percentage of nose jobs was quite low. Now it seems well beyond the 50% mark and could even be approaching 80% for girls worth looking at. I haven't tried a head count of course. There is also possibly a decline in percentage of totally nude girls.

Its getting to the point that I am losing all interest in attending any bars to just watch naked girls. Getting too hard to find any all natural quality. I will probably just arrange to meet selected favourite girls via Line App or similar when need a fuck. Maybe occasional bar look for new talent.

Today was in Crazy House by 8:15. This is best time to see the best line up. Bar was almost full. Mostly Farangs. Very few Japanese today. This is a big shock. Don't understand why. Perhaps with all the nose jobs, they might think that Baccara is just as good now, or move to Shark.

Walked past Boss Massage (Soi 24/1) today at 6:30PM. Maybe 15 girls sitting outside. At least 3 of them looked rather pretty to my taste. I think their line up is seriously prettier than most Oilies. Service, I don't know since my favourite girls from there are gone.

Paul Kausch; s Mojie is one of the few who can come back from a short time and be off on another one in 20 minute. She is an exception!

Carefully analyzing Rainbow 1 girls I wouldn't be surprised if most are in debt to the bar. They are just so not worth $100 for a short time or any time for that matter.

I also count 5 are. 1 girls who have moved on to are. 4. That tells me its hard to make money at are. 1. I just don't see the barfining there like The other Rainbows.

[QUOTE=ThomasJefferson;1657501]That means around 4000 per day x 6 days per week = 24000 x4 weeks = 96000 per month. She is an normal average massage girl 28 years.[/QUOTE]I remember reading a post a few years back from a bloke who's GF worked at a BKK F / S oily. He had her keep detailed income records for 1 month which he said was an average month for her: number of shop customers, the average price paid, shop tips, outside the shop customers, ect. I forget the exact number but I believe recalling her income was between 100,000 and 120,000 baht that month, which seemed completely plausible when presented with the data.

SunLover.

[QUOTE=Steve7777;1657647]Paul Kausch; s Mojie is one of the few who can come back from a short time and be off on another one in 20 minute. She is an exception!

Carefully analyzing Rainbow 1 girls I wouldn't be surprised if most are in debt to the bar. They are just so not worth $100 for a short time or any time for that matter.

I also count 5 are. 1 girls who have moved on to are. 4. That tells me its hard to make money at are. 1. I just don't see the barfining there like The other Rainbows.[/QUOTE]Ah, so you know her too. We should compare notes. ;)

Moojie had some very interesting things to say to me about how she works, how the other ladies work and conversations she's had with them about how to get more customers. I was going to include parts of these conversations in my report about her, which I hope to get around to writing eventually.

I saw a couple of girls at Rainbow 4 I thought were attractive, and a smaller number of attractive girls at Rainbow 1. None were attractive enough to motivate me to BF them though. A couple might have gotten my juices flowing had they not been so lethargic on stage. I had fun at RB1 because there is an older lady working there, I can't figure out exactly what she does, who I have fun kidding around with; and I enjoy watching Moojie work the audience. I didn't see one lady I would consider attractive at any of the other gogo bars I visited, except for the two ladies I ran into at CH and DH in Soi Cowboy It was weird the night I was in DH to find one of the drink service girl to be the most attractive girl in the venue that night. Though as I mentioned in my report I think the girls at Spanky's seem to have fun.

The reader should be aware that because of my age, I'm going on 64, I now find young women attractive whom I wouldn't have considered going out with twenty years ago. I also consider performance and personality most important. I enjoy being with an older lady, who some guys may think is past her prime, when the sex is great.

One of the ladies I saw in June was Moojie from Rainbow 1. We had a hilarious time together. I'll never forget her announcing as I was about to blow my wad all over her, "Oh, please, cum on my face, cum in my mouth, just don't cum in my hair."

A couple nights into my trip I walked over to Nana Plaza. Rainbow 1 was the first venue I visited. Within minutes of sitting down Moojie walked past me. She had not been outside when I came in so I guess she had just finished an ST with a customer. I called out her name. She turned and immediately recognized me. After a big hug we joked around about our antics in June. When we got around to talking about getting together again I told her I'd prefer another night, which she said was good because she was pre-booked for the rest of the evening. We agreed to meet in the lobby of my hotel at 7 pm the next night.

Moojie is one of the most cheerful, energetic girls I've met in Bangkok. She's always wearing the smile you see in the photos attached to this report. She is filled with the most infectious joy. I love fucking her. I love just being with her.

Next night she showed up right on time. I asked her if she was in a hurry. She said no. So I suggested we go up to the bar on the 32nd floor and have a drink on the terrace. I had a Laphroaig neat and a back of water with one ice cube. She had a Heineken and a shot of tequila. There was a nice cool breeze and an excellent view. It was a nice start.

After spending about thirty minutes on the terrace we went down to my room. Once in the room Moojie asked if she could take a shower, which I didn't think was necessary as she was dressed in a very sexy dress and looked as though she was ready to hit the town. Earlier she had told me she was dressed for another booking later that evening. I told her I had showered just before going downstairs to meet her and would just wait for her to get cleaned up.

After her shower it didn't take long to get down to business. Moojie came out of the shower wrapped in a bath towel that she immediately discarded. She is petite and has a very lean body. Her waist is small. There is some curvature to her hips and ass; and her legs are toned. Unfortunately she has had her breasts augmented, but the work was well done. Other than being much too big for her petite body and too perfect to be real, they look and feel quite natural. Moojie is very proud that they don't look like the unnatural breast implants most gogo girls have. She volunteered that they cost 60,000, which was paid by one generous client. Moojie also told me she has had some work done on her nose, a little silicon in the bridge. Other than that she claims she is all natural. Other than that. :rolleyes: She has a few tattoos, but neither stretch marks nor a C-section scar that I can see. Her skin is rather tan. She says she grew up in Bangkok but I'm under the impression at least part of her family came from the south, though that isn't entirely clear. Moojie is hardly a classic Thai beauty, but I think she's cute, and the combination of great sex, great personality and great chemistry make her a winner in my book.

Unlike our one session last year in which we had a crazy scene mimicking a porn shoot, this time we just had some straightforward hardcore sex. We started with DFK, which quickly developed into a very nice BBBJ, then some DATY, which evolved into some 69. I had brought a few toys, a LELO vibrator that simultaneously stimulates the G-spot and clit and a semi-rigid, beaded, vibrating anal probe. Both were put to good use to Moojie considerable enjoyment. Of course there was some missionary, some cowgirl and some doggy. We finished with COF, which she says is her preferred way to finish a session. It was 90 minutes of great sex. Before leaving we agreed to hook up again in a couple of nights.

A couple of nights later I waited in the lobby, and waited, and wait. No Moojie. Now were I a brash young man I might have gotten pissed, but I'm not. I asked myself, clearly this young lady likes me. So far she has been reliable. So what happened? My hunch was stupid me was too lazy to go over to RB1 and pre-book her and some other bastard did. So what to do. I decided, what the hell, I'm going to go over to RB1 and find out. So 15 minutes later in I walk and there's Moojie dancing on stage. She sees me. Her smile disappears and is replaced by a worried look. So I flash her a huge grin, blow her a big kiss and presto, her lovely smile reappears. In a flash she hops off the stage and dashes over to where I'm sitting. We hug, exchange pecks on the cheeks and she immediately starts to explain that the day before she got two bookings, one for early evening, one late. I told her that was what I figured and assured her I was not mad, it was my fault for not booking her and just assuming she would show up at my hotel. She then gushed on and on about what a great guy I am. Another reason I like her is she is a good judge of character. It was about 8:30 pm and I asked if she'd like to go have a romp in one of the ST rooms. So off we went to fuck each other's brains out. Thirty minutes later we spent a half-hour cuddling and talking. I remarked that the bar did not look too busy and asked if she was getting enough customers. No problem she said. Even if there were only a few customers in the bar, she said she could get as many BFs as she wanted over the course of an evening. The way she does it is simple. She actually dances in tempo with the music with lots of seductive movement. She wraps her leg around the polls and thrusts her hips like she's fucking the poll. She moves around the stage until she spots her mark, at which time she moves in and closes the deal. She particularly likes to find a table of two or three Japanese men and go to work on all of them. And rather than taking them in two or three consecutive sessions, she'll get all of them to go to a ST room with her for a total of an hour. As she sucks and fucks one guy the others watch and wait until it is their turn. So one hour yields three BFs and three FS fees. Smart. Efficient. I also think Moojie is a bit of an exhibitionist and gets into have the other guys watch her while she's fucking.

Moojie told me she gets a bit of blow back from the other dancers who complain they don't get BFed all the time like she does. Moojie is a sweetie by nature and rather than rubbing it in tries to coach them. She explains what she does. She tells the other girls to just watch her and copy her behavior. She says it is to no avail. The other girls refuse to follow her example. I suggested they may lack her lack of inhibitions.

After our session, we went back to RB1. I told her I was going to book her for 7 pm for another night and she should meet me in my hotel's lobby. Moojie said great and announced she had time for one more trick before getting ready for a later pre-booking. Busy girl. So for the next fifteen minutes I had fun watching her go to work on stage. Sure enough she spotted two Japanese guys and went to work on them. I was sitting on the opposite side of the stage from them so occasionally Moojie could turn, face me and give me a quick wink. I left shortly after watching her lead the two gentlemen out of the bar.

A couple nights later we met in the lobby right on time. First we went to dinner at a nice restaurant close to BKK, then it was back to my hotel for a couple hours of some of the best sex I've ever had with one woman. Afterwards we settled in under the sheets. Earlier I had told Moojie I had to get up early the next morning and head out for Hong Kong. She said then she'd like to spend the night with me. I didn't try to talk her out of it. So she cuddled up next to me and we fell asleep. I woke up early the next morning and started to pack as quietly as I could. At one point I looked over towards the bed and saw her looking at me with a big smile on her face. I told her I'd try to be quieter so she could go back to sleep. She said she just wanted to lie there and watch me pack. Shortly before I finished she got up, showered and dressed. We kissed, said good bye and promised to see each other again in the spring.

Mojie can coach all she wants. It probably wouldn't do any good. She is just a freak of nature.

Michael Jordan can coach all he wants. It didn't do any good.

I've given in-looks matter but not as much as I thunk before. So many decent lookers get no action. Some? Able lookers get bar fined consistently.

[QUOTE=LAGuy5;1657433]Thank you for posting this. Does anyone here have any experience with this? It is sometimes difficult to know whether media reports are overblown, or portray things accurately.[/QUOTE]It seems Thonglor disctrict police have said its not them, they appear to be blaming Klong Toei police district police of crossing the district lines and doing this in Thonglor area. Who knows, to you and me they all have the same brown uniform.

All you need to know is that the top policeman has said that tourists DO NOT need to carry passports or copies on them. But may be asked to report to a police station to show them if they are not carrying them on their person. There is no FINE to be paid for not carrying. EG no tea money in street shakedowns! He also said you can take video or photos of the police (only the ones trying to do something dodgy will refuse to have their identity taken in effect).

Video: [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXsFNmeprB8[/URL].

Police now investigating the Police over Police stop and search scams (its Thailand) : [URL]http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/784991-expat-restaurateur-meets-with-thai-police-to-discuss-stop-and-search/[/URL]

Also if you do get caught by the Bangkok council enforcers (brown uniform but not identical to police) - you do not have to pay a fine to them directly for dropping a cigarette butt. You can demand to be taken to a police station and to pay the fine at the police station. This will mean they have to give you a receipt (official one) and will not want to waste their time and in general will let you go with a warning.

Any trouble with the BMA litter officers or the police then call the Tourist Police number on 1155 immediately and speak to them. There are now so many eyes looking at them and so many people complaining that the threat of a call to the Tourist Police is enough to stop them. They will only get money from the weak now who are easily intimidated.

Just remember, be polite, do not get angry, but assert your rights (and one of those is they cannot touch you) and call the Tourist Police and if money is asked for then demand to walk to the nearest police station / box to sort the matter out.

What would you do with 30 days in Thailand and $10 k in cash? Long overdue trip coming up in February. Appreciate any suggestions, maybe your top three spots for each category, soapy, oily, FL locations, or individuals. I'm searching the threads for tips but thought this would make a good topic for all you pro mongers!

[QUOTE=PaulKausch;1657813] As she sucks and fucks one guy the others watch and wait until it is their turn. So one hour yields three BFs and three FS fees. Smart. Efficient. [/QUOTE] Interesting report. Moojie is a cutie and seems like a sweet, smart and good girl. But I really can't imagine 3 guys stupid enough to be each paying a bar fine for the same girl at the same time for the same one hour total sex time. Are you sure it wasn't 1 guy bar fining her and the others just paying for their share of the sex at her current ST rate?

Is there a curfew, what's the deal?

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1657612]I am going to change my tune dramatically about Crazy House. There has been a very disturbing trend there. Quite a number of girls appear to have got recent nose jobs. I don't know if there is some bulk discount going.

To me this just makes the girls look less Thai, less feminine and even less human. They could be a bunch of aliens. The acceleration in nose jobs is dramatic. Its a copycat fashion. Girls that previously had beautiful noses to my taste have now lost the slight up curve. I am now really struggling to find many beautiful and 100% natural girls. Fortunately the number of silicone boobs has not taken off that dramatically. However I am thinking this bar is soon going to have mostly girls that look similar to the Baccara alien look. One girl looked decidedly like a LB, however I was assured she was not and had a real pussy. I suppose to be fair, the hairstyles are generally still not as ridiculous as a Baccara or Rainbow 4.

I could swear that when I first attended Crazy House the percentage of nose jobs was quite low. Now it seems well beyond the 50% mark and could even be approaching 80% for girls worth looking at. I haven't tried a head count of course...[/QUOTE]Visited Crazy House last night and it was full. But I have never understood the "hype" of this bar. The girls are mostly average, even though there are some stunning girls there. But in my opinion the mamasans are too pushy and there is a lack of good atmosphere in this bar. Temperature is too cold so most girls complain about this all the time. Best bars in Soi Cowboy is Shark, Long Gun, Cowboy2. If you are Korean, go to Baccara for the "dolls". Also visited several bars in Nana Plaza. Amazing quantity and quality in Rainbow4 and very busy last night. By far the most popular bar in there. Spankys can also be fun if you are in the mood for some whipping. The rest is more average, but with some cute and natural looking girls in every bar. Men have different opinions also, so I guess we should appreciate the diversity.

[QUOTE=PaulKausch;1657813]SNIPPED.
to my hotel for a couple hours of some of the best sex I've ever had with one woman. Afterwards we settled in under the sheets. Earlier I had told Moojie I had to get up early the next morning and head out for Hong Kong. She said then she'd like to spend the night with me. I didn't try to talk her out of it. So she cuddled up next to me and we fell asleep. I woke up early the next morning and started to pack as quietly as I could. At one point I looked over towards the bed and saw her looking at me with a big smile on her face. I told her I'd try to be quieter so she could go back to sleep. She said she just wanted to lie there and watch me pack. Shortly before I finished she got up, showered and dressed. We kissed, said good bye and promised to see each other again in the spring.[/QUOTE]Great report and sounds like quite the gal. The room has got to be in the Sofitel Sukhumvit. The shutters behind the tub is the give away. Great place.

[QUOTE=Daddy07;1657881]Interesting report. Moojie is a cutie and seems like a sweet, smart and good girl. But I really can't imagine 3 guys stupid enough to be each paying a bar fine for the same girl at the same time for the same one hour total sex time. Are you sure it wasn't 1 guy bar fining her and the others just paying for their share of the sex at her current ST rate?[/QUOTE]Baffles me. Once you BF a girl, out, then can negotiate with her to have some guys watching for a reasonable fee, if she is not shy. Certainly no need to pay additional BFs. Guys used to be able to go drink at SOL in Patpong and watch a guy (could have been me on rare occasions) fuck some girl in the public bar for free (well just the cost of their drink).

I much prefer to have multiple girls and no other guys needed. Then it makes sense that you have to BF each girl.

The girl is not actually my taste, based on face pics, but fortunately we don't all like the same thing. At Rainbow 1, I thought one waitress was very pretty / hot (and quickly busy with a customer), but the rest were not so pretty on that night, a few months back.

I also objected to a ST Hotel (Penny Black) in Soi Cowboy, that wanted to double the price when I took 2 girls. I pay the Hotel for the room and not for the girls. Fortunately Asoke Place only increases the room fee by 100 Baht for additional girls which more than covers the extra towels, etc. I boycott Penny Black now as too much of a rip off, and they have too few rooms since some part was converted to something else.

[QUOTE=Daddy07;1657881]Interesting report. Moojie is a cutie and seems like a sweet, smart and good girl. But I really can't imagine 3 guys stupid enough to be each paying a bar fine for the same girl at the same time for the same one hour total sex time. Are you sure it wasn't 1 guy bar fining her and the others just paying for their share of the sex at her current ST rate?[/QUOTE]I have not seen her pick up three guys at a time, but I did see her pick up two. Though I do not know how long the session lasted. It could have gone on for one hour. It could have gone on for two hours. I did see both guys reach into their pocket and pay the tab. I have no idea if two BFs were on the tab. If it was my bar I'd have put two BFs on that tab. Watching the transaction it sure looked like the guys made it clear to the mamasan that they were both going with her, and if this is her modus operandi, I bet the procedure is all worked out.

I wouldn't necessarily attribute it to stupidity. Some guys are into gang bangs and bukkake. Being a fan of Japanese porn, I can easily imagine what Moojie described happening. The whole point is for several guys to be with the girl at the same time. I've never tried to get one girl to fuck me and several other guys in the same session. For all I know a girl willing to do that may be hard to find. Also, if you watch Japanese porn, you will notice the actresses don't behave the same way as Caucasian porn stars. Perhaps Moojie has mastered that manner and has cultivated a reputation with Japanese men.

By the way, when I asked her Moojie said she only fucked one guy at time and did not allow anal / vaginal DP. However, she is a-level and really enjoys a good anal fuck, once you've gotten her worked up and good and ready. Coincidentally many, though certainly not all, Japanese gang bang film show several guys fucking a girl sequentially, not simultaneous, with a big bukkake finale. And I do know Moojie's preferred way for a guy to finish is with COF / CIM, which she greets with a big smiling, open mouth.

[QUOTE=Jgm005;1657939]Great report and sounds like quite the gal. The room has got to be in the Sofitel Sukhumvit. The shutters behind the tub is the give away. Great place.[/QUOTE]You are correct. You may also notice the Hermes toiletries by the bathtube. It is a great hotel in a great location, and one of the most reasonably priced 5-star hotels in Bangkok. Join Le Club Accor for a good discount on rooms and to collect points which further reduce the price. Right now, I could book a room, using some of my points and pay US $105 (and that is after all taxes) for a room in May.

[QUOTE=PaulKausch;1657982]I have not seen her pick up three guys at a time, but I did see her pick up two. Though I do not know how long the session lasted. It could have gone on for one hour. It could have gone on for two hours. I did see both guys reach into their pocket and pay the tab. I have no idea if two BFs were on the tab. If it was my bar I'd have put two BFs on that tab. Watching the transaction it sure looked like the guys made it clear to the mamasan that they were both going with her, and if this is her modus operandi, I bet the procedure is all worked out. [/QUOTE]My point is that it seems stupid for 2 or more guys to each pay a BF for the same girl at the same time when 1 BF will suffice for whatever purpose the group has in mind. My guess is that you saw 2 guys paying their tabs and perhaps going in half and half on the BF -- not each paying a full BF -- 2 BF's for just the 1 girl, which IMHO would indeed be stupid. Obviously, the mamasan and the bar don't know how many guys the girl is going to fuck after she leaves the bar so there is simply no reason to pay 2 BF's. If you were the bar owner, how would you know to charge 2 BF's unless the 2 fools told you what they were going to do and agreed to pay 2 BF's? Whether the girl is gone for 1 hour or 3 hours only 1 BF should be required.

[QUOTE=Daddy07;1657881]Interesting report. Moojie is a cutie and seems like a sweet, smart and good girl........................... Are you sure it wasn't 1 guy bar fining her and the others just paying for their share of the sex at her current ST rate?[/QUOTE]They were Japanese not Indians.

I've had no interaction with mojie except as an observer.

She presently looks like a FreAk. With a very nice face. She was popular before inserting the 2 freaks so I was surprised she got them. But again I'm not a bargirl.

[QUOTE=Duniawala;1658041]They were Japanese not Indians.[/QUOTE]I wouldn't write that, but perhaps you can get away with it.

[QUOTE=Daddy07;1658014]My point is that it seems stupid for 2 or more guys to each pay a BF for the same girl at the same time when 1 BF will suffice for whatever purpose the group has in mind. My guess is that you saw 2 guys paying their tabs and perhaps going in half and half on the BF -- not each paying a full BF -- 2 BF's for just the 1 girl, which IMHO would indeed be stupid. Obviously, the mamasan and the bar don't know how many guys the girl is going to fuck after she leaves the bar so there is simply no reason to pay 2 BF's. If you were the bar owner, how would you know to charge 2 BF's unless the 2 fools told you what they were going to do and agreed to pay 2 BF's? Whether the girl is gone for 1 hour or 3 hours only 1 BF should be required.[/QUOTE]I understand your point. And you may very well be right. But here are my thoughts on the matter.

This is Moojie's MO, to pick up two or three Japanese patrons at a time. By the way, she is not the first gogo dancer I've seen do this. Obviously RB1 knows she often does this. Everything happens in the open. It's not like one guy leaves. One guy BFs her and the second guy meets them outside.

If I was the manager of RB1 I would not have a problem with her going off with two or three guys at a time, but I wouldn't think it fair to me if they only paid one BF. If Moojie took one guy at a time there is a possibility the second (and third) guy might BF another girl. So I could get two (three) BFs not one. But I would also think perhaps these guys are at my bar because Moojie specializes in something that is not common among gogo girls. How many gogo girls do you know who really get into CIM? So maybe I would not get the second or third, or maybe even the first BF if she didn't have a fondness for gargling with a mouthful of cum. I'd work out some arrangement with her like 50% off for the second guy or three for the price of two. That would give me some financial incentive for her to take several guys; and give her a "deal" she could offer to score multiple guys.

I've observed RB1 gives Moojie a lot of latitude. Maybe she does let one guy BF her and then hooks up with another guy on some occasions. Maybe she's straight with RB1 about doing multiple guys openly in exchange for getting special privileges. Who knows? She's a sales person and someone there is the sales manager. Good salesmen and sales managers are good at finding ways of working together for both parties' benefit.

Beats me what's going on. I just repeated what Moojie told me. And I did see proof that she does score multiple guys at a time.

I suggest two or three of you guys go to RB1 and find out. Just be sure to give us a detailed report. ;)

Are most Cowboy / Nana go go girls now insisting on using the short time hotels? I've never used a ST hotel at Cowboy.

[QUOTE=PaulKausch;1658074]
I suggest two or three of you guys go to RB1 and find out. Just be sure to give us a detailed report. ;)[/QUOTE]That's funny. I doubt there will be many takers on this forum. LOL. The 2nd to last thing I want to do in BKK, the land of abundant pussy, is set up a MFM menage. The last thing I want to do, meaning it ain't ever going to happen, is barfine a LB. The Japanese are different though, that is for sure. It is not about saving money with them. The girl will net a double service fee out of this arrangement for about equal time as a regular ST. Some Japanese guys just like sharing the same girl at the same time. It is more Japanese than gay.

[QUOTE=Allover;1658079]Are most Cowboy / Nana go go girls now insisting on using the short time hotels? I've never used a ST hotel at Cowboy.[/QUOTE]In November I used an ST hotel once, otherwise we used my hotel room. It is a matter of time. As others have pointed out, lapsed time from out the door to back on stage may be as little as 30 minutes using an ST hotel. It's unlikely that would be possible, even with the Nana Hotel. However, Moojie, who typically scores multiple BFs in an evening was willing to spend a couple of hours with me in my hotel on one evening and an entire even with an overnight stay on another occasion. I do stay at a nice hotel and the ladies tell me they like to come to my room for that reason. Frankly, I don't mind the ST rooms at all. I actually like the somewhat seedy ambiance. They look better than some of the rooms at the MPs. The thing I like most about my hotel room is the big bed to play in.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;1658088]That's funny. I doubt there will be many takers on this forum. Some Japanese guys just like sharing the same girl at the same time. It is more Japanese than gay.[/QUOTE]I also bet there won't be any takers. And I agree it is more a Japanese thing. However, I've done two MMFFFFs and enjoyed both, especially the first. Spit roasting Bell with BKKMick while Ice kissed Bell and licked her clit was a real turn on for me. When it comes to sexual practices, as long as everyone is cool with what transpires, I'm cool. Much weirder stuff than several guys sharing one girl happens in Bangkok.

[QUOTE=WhereYouGo;1657868]What would you do with 30 days in Thailand and $10 k in cash? Long overdue trip coming up in February. Appreciate any suggestions, maybe your top three spots for each category, soapy, oily, FL locations, or individuals. I'm searching the threads for tips but thought this would make a good topic for all you pro mongers![/QUOTE]First thing I would do is not tell anyone that I had $10 k cash. If I made a bonehead announcement like that, I would not tell anyone when and where I would be travelling in a public forum. I would decline all offers of being invited to go out with unknown wingmen.

I tell every woman I meet that I have little money. How I am travelling on a dime. I never carry a wad of cash and go to street side food stalls so I don't ever need a lot of immediate cash. If I have a multiple day arrangement I offer to buy a little as possible and if we end up at a street market, I may buy her a gift but I ask her to negotiate the deal. It's funny how far your money can go if the girls think you don't have any.

Just be safe. If your spending gets the attention of the girls you can be sure both unsavoury girls and even guys will notice you and you just became the hunted.

Any word / reports on the Den in Sukhumvit, Soi 12?

Should be open for business by now?

[QUOTE=George300;1657904]Is there a curfew, what's the deal?[/QUOTE]When I was in Bangkok, late Nov. 2014, there was not curfew.

[QUOTE=OrangeCrust;1658103]First thing I would do is not tell anyone that I had $10 k cash. If I made a bonehead announcement like that, I would not tell anyone when and where I would be travelling in a public forum. I would decline all offers of being invited to go out with unknown wingmen.

I tell every woman I meet that I have little money. How I am travelling on a dime. I never carry a wad of cash and go to street side food stalls so I don't ever need a lot of immediate cash. If I have a multiple day arrangement I offer to buy a little as possible and if we end up at a street market, I may buy her a gift but I ask her to negotiate the deal. It's funny how far your money can go if the girls think you don't have any.

Just be safe. If your spending gets the attention of the girls you can be sure both unsavoury girls and even guys will notice you and you just became the hunted.[/QUOTE]I will have a Citybank safe deposit box. Don't plan to be extravagant, so any suggestions on where to go? Thanks for the advice!

[QUOTE=NolaKenner;1658114]When I was in Bangkok, late Nov. 2014, there was not curfew.[/QUOTE]Curfew ended this past summer with the start of the World Cup. Martial Law is still in effect, but it had no impact on me during my recent trip.

[QUOTE=OrangeCrust;1658103]First thing I would do is not tell anyone that I had $10 k cash. If I made a bonehead announcement like that, I would not tell anyone when and where I would be travelling in a public forum. I would decline all offers of being invited to go out with unknown wingmen.

I tell every woman I meet that I have little money. How I am travelling on a dime. I never carry a wad of cash and go to street side food stalls so I don't ever need a lot of immediate cash. If I have a multiple day arrangement I offer to buy a little as possible and if we end up at a street market, I may buy her a gift but I ask her to negotiate the deal. It's funny how far your money can go if the girls think you don't have any.

Just be safe. If your spending gets the attention of the girls you can be sure both unsavoury girls and even guys will notice you and you just became the hunted.[/QUOTE]I'd throw 9 k to the first girl I meet and try to learn real life with the 1 k left.

[QUOTE=WhereYouGo;1658116]I will have a Citybank safe deposit box. Don't plan to be extravagant, so any suggestions on where to go? Thanks for the advice![/QUOTE]Sorry about the strong reaction, I just don't want you to get hurt, rolled, or robbed. I've seen so many "victims waiting to happen. " I haven't been back to BKK for a bit but I always returned home thinking that I spent way less then I thought I would. But I tend to latch onto one girl in the first week and keep her till I go. The same approach for my short 1 month visits to my 4 month visit.

My advice is to try to find an university student to support. Basically, they just moved into my condo. Best decision ever and the I still partook in soapies and Nataree sideliners. Man, do I ever miss Nataree. So my advice is to do the sidelines from Nataree twice in the evening then BF a LT girl at any of the Gogo's. You will easily burn through the 10 k this way and have some seriously beautiful notches in your belt.

[QUOTE=WhereYouGo;1657868]What would you do with 30 days in Thailand and $10 k in cash? Long overdue trip coming up in February. Appreciate any suggestions, maybe your top three spots for each category, soapy, oily, FL locations, or individuals. I'm searching the threads for tips but thought this would make a good topic for all you pro mongers![/QUOTE]If your MO is like my friends you will run out in a week or so. Last weekend we travelled together to BKK and I showed him my MO hunting for girls in Thong Lor area. I just stayed the weekend and went back for x mas preperations Monday. Tonight I got a call from my friend and he claims to have burned $12 k (in his case I believe him). ATM had eaten his card and no he is requesting me for a WU transfer, haha. I told him I never ever send money through WU but since he is a friend I might just make an exceptions. His excuse this time "I have fallen for the gentleman clubs". So you should bring $40K, wink wink.

[QUOTE=PaulKausch;1658074]
I suggest two or three of you guys go to RB1 and find out. Just be sure to give us a detailed report. ;)[/QUOTE]I'd rather go by myself and have her all to myself! LOL!

Thanks for the report and insights, PK.

[QUOTE=WhereYouGo;1657868]What would you do with 30 days in Thailand and $10 k in cash? Long overdue trip coming up in February. Appreciate any suggestions, maybe your top three spots for each category, soapy, oily, FL locations, or individuals. I'm searching the threads for tips but thought this would make a good topic for all you pro mongers![/QUOTE]WYG, first buy a subscription to the ISG. This will enable you to send and receive PM's from fellow members. I tried to send you a PM and could not. Second, RTFF. The best places to go in BKK are reported on, discussed, and debated in detail. Go back 6 months to a year. It is all there. Then after reading up on the subject you will be in a very good position to ask informed questions and receive knowledgeable up to date answers. To start you off on the right direction, here is a short list of some cool places. You should be able to have an outstanding time in BKK for 30 days on 10 k not including Hotel, but Skogis is right, if you start spending a lot a time going after the top girls at the Soapies, Dance Clubs, and G-Clubs; it is definitely possible to run through that much cash and then some. 555. Bring a few credit cards just in case!

Oilies: EZ, Addict, Snow White, Mango, and (Tulip based on Paul's latest report).

Go Go's: RB4, CH, Baccara, SW and many others.

Soi 11 Clubs: Climax and BASH.

Soapies: Nataree, LA Belle, Amsterdam, Copa Cabana.

Hotel FL Bars: Spasso and Mixx.

Dance Clubs: The Pimp Sister, Demo, Funky Villa and Route 66 Dance Club.

G-Clubs: Sherbert and Maiake.

Now do some research!

[QUOTE=WhereYouGo;1658116]I will have a Citybank safe deposit box. Don't plan to be extravagant, so any suggestions on where to go? Thanks for the advice![/QUOTE]Nobody can get in your head or libido s you have it backwards. Figure out what you want to do then ask how to make it happen.

And your hotel safe if fine. I bring that on most of my long trips.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;1658196]You should be able to have an outstanding time in BKK for 30 days on 10 k not including Hotel, SNIP [/QUOTE]Even including hotel (and airfare!) you can have an outstanding time. Or even with 5 k, or less. It all depends on what you want: how many girls, which girls (eg. 1000B street walkers, 2500B Agogo girls or 5000B Nataree girls), a guesthouse or a 5 star hotel, streetfood or fancy restaurants, etcetera.

Don't give this guy the impression he really needs 10 k, you big spender LOL!

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;1658196]WYG, first buy a subscription to the ISG. This will enable you to send and receive PM's from fellow members. I tried to send you a PM and could not. Second, RTFF. The best places to go in BKK are reported on, discussed, and debated in detail. Go back 6 months to a year. It is all there. Then after reading up on the subject you will be in a very good position to ask informed questions and receive knowledgeable up to date answers. To start you off on the right direction, here is a short list of some cool places. You should be able to have an outstanding time in BKK for 30 days on 10 k not including Hotel, but Skogis is right, if you start spending a lot a time going after the top girls at the Soapies, Dance Clubs, and G-Clubs; it is definitely possible to run through that much cash and then some. 555. Bring a few credit cards just in case!

Oilies: EZ, Addict, Snow White, Mango, and (Tulip based on Paul's latest report).

Go Go's: RB4, CH, Baccara, SW and many others.

Soi 11 Clubs: Climax and BASH.

Soapies: Nataree, LA Belle, Amsterdam, Copa Cabana.

Hotel FL Bars: Spasso and Mixx.

Dance Clubs: The Pimp Sister, Demo, Funky Villa and Route 66 Dance Club.

G-Clubs: Sherbert and Maiake.

Now do some research![/QUOTE]Thanks Natty Bumpo, this is helpful information. I just bought a subscription to ISG and will continue searching the threads. Appreciate the advice from everyone and even the jabs, all in good fun!

[QUOTE=Mogwai;1658230]Even including hotel (and airfare!) you can have an outstanding time. Or even with 5 k, or less. It all depends on what you want: how many girls, which girls (eg. 1000B street walkers, 2500B Agogo girls or 5000B Nataree girls), a guesthouse or a 5 star hotel, streetfood or fancy restaurants, etcetera.

Don't give this guy the impression he really needs 10 k, you big spender LOL![/QUOTE]Just so there is no misunderstanding, it is possible to pay 5000 baht for a girl at Nataree, but most of the girls will be around 2500 baht (or maybe less; I haven't been there in months so can't speak to whether prices are creeping up). If you add a 500 baht non-mandatory tip to that, you are talking about somewhere around 3000 baht. I agree though 10 K sounds a little high, particularly given that on the girl front, one usually hits a wall after a few days and while one might start at three girls a day (e. g.), few can keep up at that pace for a full month. Then again, I have known a few who could, damnit!

I'm planning a trip to BKK and Pattaya but I'm a little worried about racism over there if anyone can tell me what I should expect I would be grateful. Also my plan is to spend 5 days in Bangkok and 5 days in Pattaya how much money should I bring with me to be comfortable?

[QUOTE=Steve7777;1657499]You must be losing it. I find it hard to believe populars girls who get barfined everyday-no matter Hi or low season, Hi water or low water are willing to top off the night with a long time. Or go cruising as a FL at a dingy disco.[/QUOTE]Just for you, I asked the top Bargirl that I know well, how much she makes. She claims 200 k per month and up. You can see she doesn't need any guys looking for a bargain. If she rarely takes a new guy, she would just so ST upstairs.

I have seen photos of the mansion she is building.

Looks 18 but is actually a few years older. Very tight slim body. Limited education but is studying English.

She does do LT but only when the price is right. Even takes a holiday with customers to rest body with good money coming in. I am normally happy with ST.

[QUOTE=SteelDh;1658308]I'm planning a trip to BKK and Pattaya but I'm a little worried about racism over there if anyone can tell me what I should expect I would be grateful. Also my plan is to spend 5 days in Bangkok and 5 days in Pattaya how much money should I bring with me to be comfortable?[/QUOTE]I went with my black friend before from Canada, he didn't really notice any racism. But he's a very nice guy. And spends the dollars. However he met a lot of girls who like black guys but as long as they are respectful. As for the money, its relevant on how many girls you want per day. And the quality of girls! Not including airfare and hotels. You can have an pretty good time with 3-4,000 dollars if you want 1-2 basic girls a day, but its always more fun if you have at least $5,000! Usually I spend a minimum of 5 grand but usually stay longer then 5 days in each city. Read a bit about the BF's and what the girls want. On average anywhere from 1500 for a FL and 3-5,000 b for a solid gogo or bar girl. Then do the math on how many girls you want per day. If you have 5 K and access to more funds if you really need it, guarantee you will have the time of your life ifs its your first trip to bankbook and pats. Just don't make the same mistake some new guys do, they think to much about the money and not have a good time the first couple of nights, but always regret it! Don't live with regrets brother! Just go hard and then go home and you will not be able to wait for your next trip! I can't wait for January 7 until I arrive again! If you are there around that time we can go mongering together!

A few other good places for Americans to go for legal PFP are Aruba, Curacao and St Maarten. All have legal brothels stocked with Colombian and Dominican girls. Campo Alegre in Curacao is this hemisphere's largest brothel, typically with around 150 chicas each with their own apartment.

All three islands provide an excellent "normal" vacation experience coupled with reasonably priced (by American standards) prime, government inspected (weekly) chicas.

Check out the Caribbean -> Lesser Antilles boards on ISG for a friendly group of mongers with accurate info.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1657210]If you've been following the discussion, Goatscrot spoke of 5 areas including South America & Cuba etc.

As for CR, as I've mentioned before, I know an American who lived there but moved to Pattaya. He's been in LOS a few years now, loves it & prefers it over CR.

Americans don't need to go to any of the places you list. They have loads of PFP or PFT options in their own country without paying airfares to travel for hours to strange lands. The vast majority get their fun on US soil & contribute back to the economy there.

If they happen to choose relatively dangerous Brazil over LOS, they've also chosen a country that presents greater language issues & a much higher HIV rate. From the NW USA the trip to Brazil will also be more expensive. Brazil is a more popular hobbying destination than any of those you mentioned, LOS excepted.

Jamaica is popular for ladies looking to pay for sex with Jamaican men. PFP is illegal there. The USA has a large black population so I can see how Jamaica & DR might draw a lot of Americans, especially as many places such as LOS are prejudiced against them.[/QUOTE]

Checked out Tilac tonight despite the girls not exposing the tits. Definitely has the prettiest girl selection of any bar I visited, not too many fakes. More Farangs than Japanese. Easily spotted several girls I would like to fuck.

Has a few Coyote girls. Don't see the point. They seem to be the ugly ones to my taste.

I will keep a small number of regular bargirls from other bars that I can call up without actually even going in the bar.

[QUOTE=Pogostick;1658464]A few other good places for Americans to go for legal PFP are Aruba, Curacao and St Maarten. All have legal brothels stocked with Colombian and Dominican girls. Campo Alegre in Curacao is this hemisphere's largest brothel, typically with around 150 chicas each with their own apartment.

All three islands provide an excellent "normal" vacation experience coupled with reasonably priced (by American standards) prime, government inspected (weekly) chicas.

Check out the Caribbean -> Lesser Antilles boards on ISG for a friendly group of mongers with accurate info.[/QUOTE]No. According to PP, who is, AFAIK, Canadian, the USA is chock full of prime P4 P venues and we Yanks have no need of traveling anywhere, except to Thailand. :D

He's absolutely correct. That is, if you don't mind the potential of being arrested, having your name in the local paper, losing your job, having a criminal record, even potentially being branded as a "Sex Offender" and put onto a lifetime registry. You can avoid a lot of that if you stick with massage places, but that gets a bit old after a while. Other options exist, but it takes a long time and lot of effort to become "accepted" in that community (due to LE stings, etc.). Oh, and the legal brothels in Nevada? They'd have to pay ME. Ahhh, feminism at its finest!

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1658493]No. According to PP, who is, AFAIK, Canadian, the USA is chock full of prime P4 P venues and we Yanks have no need of traveling anywhere, except to Thailand. :D[/QUOTE]Actually that is not my view or what I said. I did mention that Thailand is one of the few "prime" sex tourist destinations on the ball, if not number one. These other places getting mentioned, like Cuba CR Jamaica are light years behind LOS in that regard. They are in the peewee leaques of PFP while Siam is playing with the major leaque pro big boys.

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1658493]He's absolutely correct. That is, if you don't mind the potential of being arrested, having your name in the local paper, losing your job, having a criminal record, even potentially being branded as a "Sex Offender" and put onto a lifetime registry. You can avoid a lot of that if you stick with massage places, but that gets a bit old after a while. Other options exist, but it takes a long time and lot of effort to become "accepted" in that community (due to LE stings, etc.). Oh, and the legal brothels in Nevada? They'd have to pay ME. Ahhh, feminism at its finest![/QUOTE]There's maybe a one in a million chance of having that happen, if one has absolutely no clue what they are doing or retarded. From what I've read in certain areas where it's illegal LE don't even bother enforcing the law, which means even the clueless don't have any such problems there.

OTOH nothing could ever go wrong with an American travelling abroad to a poverty stricken thoroughly corrupt third world country, could it? Actually things as bad as you mention & far worse happen on a regular basis, as those who follow the news are well aware. Such news stories are just the tip of the iceberg.

To chime in on the conversation I think a large percent of American mongers go to destinations in the Caribbean and south America. Places like the Dominican Republic, Costa Rica, Colombia, Brazil, Jamaica etc. The length of the flights are a big factor. The DR and Costa Rica are 3 hrs away from NY and the flights are considerably cheaper. Its easier to take a quick weekend getaway to those destinations than it is to go to Thailand, Cambodia, Jakarta etc.

I come from the States and place while growing up had one of the biggest P4 P, scene in the world? You had options of working girl houses, street walkers, (latin, whites, Blacks,) today it is rare to even find one neighborhood for that? Everything has gone underground to the Internet or Massage parlors. In the the big Massage parlor era in the 90's, there were so many choices and girls today, unless you are desperate and know a referral from someone it is really hit and miss. The popular one's get busted real soon! The biggest problem of staying home is being seen by a friend or family right? It might be a million and one but I've known two politicians that didn't beat the odds and I can tell you it is not pretty once your friends and family find out! And those that have like myself (when married) in the past spend a lot of time driving around and around, parking outside making sure it was all clear before you entered!

Places like LOS, you come and never have to look over your shoulder! You are actually FREE for the first time and that people is worth the price of a airplane ticket and 12 plus hours on the plane? You can go ST / LT, covered or uncovered, mainly we do what we had dream of our whole life of being a handsome man and a self proclaim stud! We walk with our head up high, chest out, and we are young again!

I hear this morning over coffee, a guy saying and dreaming that North Korea falls so it would be a new South Korea he knew in the 70's 80's. Nothing but virgin territory? I told him drink your fucking coffee and shut the fuck up you can barely walk now? He said he still got his tongue? Another said Hey? Cuba is opening up? It is all about the Freedom, or you can sit home and compare the numbers? Personally I hope those just stay home!

[QUOTE=SteelDh;1658308]I'm planning a trip to BKK and Pattaya but I'm a little worried about racism over there if anyone can tell me what I should expect I would be grateful. Also my plan is to spend 5 days in Bangkok and 5 days in Pattaya how much money should I bring with me to be comfortable?[/QUOTE]A tip.

Tell the girls you aren't African- tell them you are Indian. Thai girls love Indians!

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1658493]. Ahhh, feminism at its finest![/QUOTE]Americans. We defeated Nazism in the 40's. We defeated Communism in the 80's. We defeated Islamists in the 00's. Yet, we lost our freedom at home.

To those doubters on LT. For the girls it sucks! Put yourself in their high-heels.

I saw a popular Rainbow girl turn down 6,000 LT offer. From a nice Japanese gentleman caller.

[QUOTE=Markie123;1597177]Hi,

I am new to BKK but have been around a bit in various places so not so young and naive. However I met a bar girl who you guessed it I fell for not a young 25 yr old or anything like that her best years are behind her no doubt. Me married a long time I mean long but somehow this went out the window and now I am on the brink of giving it all up for this girl who never asked me for much and not once tried to rip me off. I know all the horror stories about being fleeced due to the buffalo etc and as I said I am not naive enough to think she loves my beer belly and grey hair but somehow there is some connection there and I can't put my mind at rest if I am just being a silly old bugger or if it can work. By the way I can probably get a job in Thailand from my company and my mate says go for it and if it does not work out there is always plenty of more attractive younger models to be had.

The dilemma is do I chuck in a very good life with all the things you can imagine including a pretty wife and grand kids or do I stick with what I got and always look back and regret. I know there are some wise old experienced heads on here who probably have had the same dilemma so any good advice and experiences would be helpful. I will be back there in two weeks and need to make or break this one way or the other.[/QUOTE]Things have moved on pretty much as I guess I knew they would. Went thro the whole pain of BF stop working scenario which eventually I succumbed to and coughed up. Continued travelling in and out for work every month until I sorted out a permanent position there and now I have a work permit. Moved out of BKK and live in ChonBuri together with her and so far so good she really takes care in every way possible. Not saying this is a match for life but I am happy and of course she is as well her life changed significantly for the better. In the relatively short period of time I have been in Thailand I have got to know a fair few of these girls on personal level and mostly they are really nice people. Who knows where it ends up but you only live once so enjoy.

[QUOTE=LAGuy5;1658249]Just so there is no misunderstanding, it is possible to pay 5000 baht for a girl at Nataree, but most of the girls will be around 2500 baht (or maybe less; I haven't been there in months so can't speak to whether prices are creeping up). If you add a 500 baht non-mandatory tip to that, you are talking about somewhere around 3000 baht. I agree though 10 K sounds a little high, particularly given that on the girl front, one usually hits a wall after a few days and while one might start at three girls a day (e. g.), few can keep up at that pace for a full month. Then again, I have known a few who could, damnit![/QUOTE]I will probably be hitting that wall you mentioned. Just wish I was younger with this budget, I could have put it to better use then. Nataree is on the top of the soapy list (add Poseidon, La Belle, Utopia or CP2 possibly?

[QUOTE=Tiradentes;1658593]Americans. We defeated Nazism in the 40's. We defeated Communism in the 80's. We defeated Islamists in the 00's. Yet, we lost our freedom at home.[/QUOTE]If you really think that then you have only been on holiday elsewhere? You got it better than you think? And that is coming from someone who think like you!

[QUOTE=Steve7777;1658594]To those doubters on LT. For the girls it sucks! Put yourself in their high-heels.

I saw a popular Rainbow girl turn down 6,000 LT offer. From a nice Japanese gentleman caller.[/QUOTE]No for all of us it sucks and getting worse. That is almost 200 USD FFS! Up from about 37 USD LT when I first moved here 15 yrs ago. That is one hell of a price increase. Imagine if housing, cars, or food went up by that percentage in 15 yrs. We'd all be in the poor house. Amazing that there are dudes that will pay that now. They should hand out a flyer at Swampy, "Don't pay the girls over 1 k ST. ".

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1658674]No for all of us it sucks and getting worse. That is almost 200 USD FFS! Up from about 37 USD LT when I first moved here 15 yrs ago. That is one hell of a price increase. Imagine if housing, cars, or food went up by that percentage in 15 yrs. We'd all be in the poor house. Amazing that there are dudes that will pay that now. They should hand out a flyer at Swampy, "Don't pay the girls over 1 k ST. ".[/QUOTE]I just spent 5 days in Pattaya and 8 days in Bangkok. I took several girls from go-go's and freelancers from bars and was quite surprised that I could take all of them LT for 2500 - 3000 bath. They were very beautiful girls and gave good service in bed with enthusiasm. They stayed from 2-3 AM until 6-7 PM the next day (except one who had a regular daytime job and had to leave early). Not sure if I was just lucky, but given the fact they stay with me 16 hours I really can not complain the price. Of course if you go to a place like RB4 you will know the price is high. Take it if you can afford it! But there are nice girls to be found at prices that are still not bad. Based on the time and service you get. The key point is to treat them nice, offer them food, relax by the pool, small shopping etc. You don't have to become their boyfriend (I have learned the lesson! Just spend some quality time with them and get to know them better. Talk about stuff they are interested in. Several sessions in bed are OK with most of them also (If they like you)!

[QUOTE=Tiradentes;1658593]Americans. We defeated Nazism in the 40's. We defeated Communism in the 80's. We defeated Islamists in the 00's. Yet, we lost our freedom at home.[/QUOTE]Perhaps someone should tell the "Islamists" they are defeated. From what I see on TV and read in the newspapers, it seems they have missed that.

Dress respectable, smell nice, and be polite. You won't have any racism issues if you follow these three things.

[QUOTE=Steve7777;1658594]To those doubters on LT. For the girls it sucks! Put yourself in their high-heels.

I saw a popular Rainbow girl turn down 6,000 LT offer. From a nice Japanese gentleman caller.[/QUOTE]I agree there is little incentive for a top earning girl to take LT, unless she knows and likes the customer, and will make good money for not much hard work, and will get good comfortable sleep.

She knows very well, some guys will want to fuck all night for 3K. This has no appeal to her whatsoever. She can get a succession of 3 quick STs. She has control of the market.

On the other hand a girl that is very ordinary with few customers, will have to take whatever she can get. She has no control. She has to go cheaper and provide far more service. Unfortunately for me, I still don't want to fuck these ugly / average looking ones.

Some girls live with mother and father who supposedly don't know what daughter is doing. They have to be home by 2:30 AM. LOL Interesting story they spin. I don't know whether to believe this one. Could be actually pimp/BF is waiting. Its of no importance. Simply they just don't want to do LT. I am sure could change the outcome for a very high price, but I don't need that.

Can anyone go over how you could give a girl a hot water shower, a bed and a nice silver trinket for long time 25 years ago.

[QUOTE=Steve7777;1658592]A tip.

Tell the girls you aren't African- tell them you are Indian. Thai girls love Indians![/QUOTE]Steve, I am skeptical and don't think that Steel would get any special preference or treatment projecting himself as an Indian.

[QUOTE=SteelDh;1658308]I'm planning a trip to BKK and Pattaya but I'm a little worried about racism over there if anyone can tell me what I should expect I would be grateful. Also my plan is to spend 5 days in Bangkok and 5 days in Pattaya how much money should I bring with me to be comfortable?[/QUOTE]

However I would definitely second BKKdogs advise to dress well, smell nice and treat all ladies with respect. Better option.

In case girl dosent show any sign of interest then move on to the next one. Loads out there for all taste and types. There are lots who will enjoy your company and give you great experience.

[QUOTE=Steve7777;1658592]A tip.

Tell the girls you aren't African- tell them you are Indian. Thai girls love Indians![/QUOTE]Not funny, just dumb. Fortunately, others here have given helpful advise on the subject.

[QUOTE=SteelDh;1658308]I'm planning a trip to BKK and Pattaya but I'm a little worried about racism over there if anyone can tell me what I should expect I would be grateful. Also my plan is to spend 5 days in Bangkok and 5 days in Pattaya how much money should I bring with me to be comfortable?[/QUOTE]I have lived here full time for 4 years and visited 5 times the year prior to moving here. Don't give a thought to not having fun. I now live in the Northeast, but have lived in Bangkok and Pattaya. In Bankgkok, I've visited mostly massage places. In Pattaya, have taken gogo girls from walking street and LK Metro, and beer bar girls from all over. My experience, if there are 20 girls there, at least 70-75% will go with you. That's plenty of girls to choose from at each location. Girls will try to get as much from you as they can, especially if they know that it's your first time here. Gogo girls want 800+ BF and 3-5000 baht. Many beer bars want 3-500 BF and you can take a girl for 2000-2500 baht LT. Many beer bar girls are older, but I have had many ones from there and at least one new girl. Beer bars require more looking if you want a particular type.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1658674]No for all of us it sucks and getting worse. That is almost 200 USD FFS! Up from about 37 USD LT when I first moved here 15 yrs ago. That is one hell of a price increase. Imagine if housing, cars, or food went up by that percentage in 15 yrs. We'd all be in the poor house. Amazing that there are dudes that will pay that now. They should hand out a flyer at Swampy, "Don't pay the girls over 1 k ST. ".[/QUOTE]The thing you left out is that 6000 Baht or 200 USD is not the norm for a LT in Thailand. It is way less than that. In Canada BTW that would cost you ten times as much. So after one long time session in Bangkok one has already saved almost 2000 dollars relative to Western pricing, which more than covers the cost of airfare & two weeks in a hotel. After that it's all gravy & like getting company and sex almost free compared to back home.

Also sometimes things are priced lower than their real value or what they should be, such as the 37 USD. When they are undervalued like that in time the market often brings about a "price correction" to what it should be. For example it's been at least 7 years since NEP area street walker prices have generally remained at 1000 baht ST. This is a bargain and well overdue for a cost adjustment. For much the same product at a NEP gogo it is 250 to 300 percent more.

Expats continually complaining about LOS are ignoring how good they have it. They "can't see the forest for the trees". It's an illness, but I think it has a cure. Move back in with "Uncle Sam".

Anyways, I stopped in Suzan Wong's for maybe the 5th time this year. Not once have I said to myself that girl is above average looking. Is it me or what? You might want to go and look at the Christmas mural on one wall-quite well done.

What happened to Rainbow 4. Its atmosphere is bordering on EleCtric. Seems they don't have girls who want topless though. The word in the bar is its de-meaning.

[QUOTE=Steve7777;1658848]What happened to Rainbow 4. Its atmosphere is bordering on EleCtric. Seems they don't have girls who want topless though. The word in the bar is its de-meaning.[/QUOTE]One night in November I saw half the girls at RB4 topless. Other nights none were. Demeaning? It may be that is not the reason for covering up. It's the army's policy, who now are monitoring the bars' practices. The police no longer have anything to do with it. Some girls prefer not being nude on stage, but they know they get more BF when they are completely nude.

[QUOTE=Steve7777;1658592]A tip.

Tell the girls you aren't African- tell them you are Indian. Thai girls love Indians![/QUOTE]Very racist comment buddy.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1658812]The thing you left out is that 6000 Baht or 200 USD is not the norm for a LT in Thailand. It is way less than that. In Canada BTW that would cost you ten times as much. So after one long time session in Bangkok one has already saved almost 2000 dollars relative to Western pricing, which more than covers the cost of airfare & two weeks in a hotel. After that it's all gravy & like getting company and sex almost free compared to back home.

Also sometimes things are priced lower than their real value or what they should be, such as the 37 USD. When they are undervalued like that in time the market often brings about a "price correction" to what it should be. For example it's been at least 7 years since NEP area street walker prices have generally remained at 1000 baht ST. This is a bargain and well overdue for a cost adjustment. For much the same product at a NEP gogo it is 250 to 300 percent more.

Expats continually complaining about LOS are ignoring how good they have it. They "can't see the forest for the trees". It's an illness, but I think it has a cure. Move back in with "Uncle Sam".[/QUOTE]Hear hear! Not only is buying sexual services more expensive in America, the quality is crap. I've perused the boards and you see many guys paying $150-$200 for very average looking gals. I've walked into Korean massage parlors and you'll find 40 year old hags asking $200 for a quick suck and fuck.

For young hot gals expect to pay north of $300.

No sense in paying for average pussy when you can go on Tinder and meet chicks for free. Or at the very least buy them a beer or two and pay for an uber taxi on the way back home.

[QUOTE=SteelDh;1658308]I'm planning a trip to BKK and Pattaya but I'm a little worried about racism over there if anyone can tell me what I should expect I would be grateful. Also my plan is to spend 5 days in Bangkok and 5 days in Pattaya how much money should I bring with me to be comfortable?[/QUOTE]It depends. There are black guys who would do well in LOS if you look like Drake or Odell Beckham Jr. Maybe not so good if you look like Marshawn Lynch. Too much of a beast and he scare those petite little thai girls LOL.

[QUOTE=SteelDh;1658308]Also my plan is to spend 5 days in Bangkok and 5 days in Pattaya how much money should I bring with me to be comfortable?[/QUOTE]IMO you would be comfortable with a $200 USD (6,500 Baht) per day spending budget not counting the hotel. You will likely come home with some money.

Bring the newer and pristine $50 and $100 USD bills as they get the best exchange rate.

Only change enough money (say $20) at the airport to get you to your destination as the exchange rate there sucks.

Only change enough money to get you through the next day or two. No need to change it all right away.

Have a backup plan should the cash run out like an ATM or credit card.

Google "Bell Travel" for an inexpensive and professional travel option from Bangkok to Pattaya and from Pattaya to BKK airport.

SL.

[QUOTE=AssLover945;1658906]Very racist comment buddy.[/QUOTE]Take it easy on the lad, Rev. Al Sharpton.

[QUOTE=Tiradentes;1658948]Take it easy on the lad, Rev. Al Sharpton.[/QUOTE]Undeserved. There is nothing wrong with calling out someone here who posts blatantly racist material whether meant as a joke or not.

[QUOTE=Steve7777;1658732]Can anyone go over how you could give a girl a hot water shower, a bed and a nice silver trinket for long time 25 years ago.[/QUOTE]You talkin about Goatscroat? This boards consummate Debbie downer.

Yesterday checked out Tilac bar at 10 pm. Boring bar really. Busier than Friday. Line up already a bit depleted by barfines. On a Saturday need to get there early. I found a girl very passionate on the bed and very nice ass. Price was not discussed. A very nice tall shy girl from Khorat named Jee.

In 3 weeks in Bangkok I tried only 4 new girls. This one was the only one good enough to be worth repeating so collected her LINE connect details.

I did 6 other girls that were already repeats and one of these is so hot, wanted her at least 10 times. She was in another league completely. Could have been more if she was a ailable every day.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1658965]Yesterday checked out Tilac bar at 10 pm. Boring bar really. Busier than Friday. Line up already a bit depleted by barfines. On a Saturday need to get there early. I found a girl very passionate on the bed and very nice ass. Price was not discussed. A very nice tall shy girl from Khorat named Jee.

In 3 weeks in Bangkok I tried only 4 new girls. This one was the only one good enough to be worth repeating so collected her LINE connect details.

I did 6 other girls that were already repeats and one of these is so hot, wanted her at least 10 times. She was in another league completely. Could have been more if she was a ailable every day.[/QUOTE]Great update.

Thanks.

In BKK in 5 weeks. In your opinion do you think things will change in that time?

Do you have badge numbers for these fillies.

Most of my favorites are late 20's to early 30's. I find these type of girls with experience are better than the 19 year olds, in general. 50% of girls had a baby already. Three new quite young girls with no baby were the dullest on the bed and / or had pussy too tight / small to suit me.

Experienced regular girls make by far the best sex and GFE for me.

All girls well above average looks with very pretty faces, slim legs, small waist and great sexy ass being minimum criteria. Tit size not important.

7 regular girls for the future. They will not bore as all are good performers, personality suitable, and outstanding in various ways even if its only for the face and body in some cases. Wish I had like this when I was a young man instead of a Farang wife.

January will catch up with one of my old favorites from 7 years ago coming back to Bangkok.

For those guys lamenting the good old days, if I compare the looks of my girls with photos of girls I did 20 years ago in Thailand, I can easily see a big improvement in overall looks and sexiness. I have got much more fussy with age. I don't really believe the working girls were better looking in the old days, when you consider just the top 5 percent. It is true there are a lot more fat young girls perhaps. Bad diets eating too much Maccas.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1658978]Most of my favorites are late 20's to early 30's. I find these type of girls with experience are better than the 19 year olds, in general. 50% of girls had a baby already. Three new quite young girls with no baby were the dullest on the bed and / or had pussy too tight / small to suit me.

Experienced regular girls make by far the best sex and GFE for me.

All girls well above average looks with very pretty faces, slim legs, small waist and great sexy ass being minimum criteria. Tit size not important.

7 regular girls for the future. They will not bore as all are good performers, personality suitable, and outstanding in various ways even if its only for the face and body in some cases. Wish I had like this when I was a young man instead of a Farang wife.

January will catch up with one of my old favorites from 7 years ago coming back to Bangkok.

For those guys lamenting the good old days, if I compare the looks of my girls with photos of girls I did 20 years ago in Thailand, I can easily see a big improvement in overall looks and sexiness. I have got much more fussy with age. I don't really believe the working girls were better looking in the old days, when you consider just the top 5 percent. It is true there are a lot more fat young girls perhaps. Bad diets eating too much Maccas.[/QUOTE]I am with you on the age. My favorite gals are late 20's to early or even mid-30's.

Disagree on looks though. In general I find the gals in BKK to be better looking than they were 15 years ago, mostly due to better fashion sense etc. But I find fewer lookers in the P4 P scene.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1658993]I am with you on the age. My favorite gals are late 20's to early or even mid-30's.

Disagree on looks though. In general I find the gals in BKK to be better looking than they were 15 years ago, mostly due to better fashion sense etc. But I find fewer lookers in the P4 P scene.[/QUOTE]I do find fewer lookers in the Oily and Soapy scene than many years ago. So called models in a Soapy shop are young, reasonable bodies, but plain or highly altered plastic faces. This is why my MP visits have dropped off. In bars, the top 5 percent are as good looking as they ever were, but significantly more expensive. Performance hit and miss.

So overall we could say there is decline one way or another. The decline is circumvented by repeating a collection of those far above the average standard, providing that not trying to get bottom dollar prices. I can connect direct to all girls, so don't have to visit their shop or bar unless it is convenient.

I generally don't have time to date girls as have a GF and also have to work. So P4P is much simpler for me. One has moved to Gik or like 2nd GF status. She likes a lot more sex than the regular GF. So maybe I have the wrong GF. I suppose I need to see if sex is going just as strong after 1 year, and doesn't drop right off in frequency like normal girls.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1658999]I do find fewer lookers in the Oily and Soapy scene than many years ago. So called models in a Soapy shop are young, reasonable bodies, but plain or highly altered plastic faces. This is why my MP visits have dropped off. In bars, the top 5 percent are as good looking as they ever were, but significantly more expensive. Performance hit and miss.

So overall we could say there is decline one way or another. The decline is circumvented by repeating a collection of those far above the average standard, providing that not trying to get bottom dollar prices. I can connect direct to all girls, so don't have to visit their shop or bar unless it is convenient.

I generally don't have time to date girls as have a GF and also have to work. So P4P is much simpler for me. One has moved to Gik or like 2nd GF status. She likes a lot more sex than the regular GF. So maybe I have the wrong GF. I suppose I need to see if sex is going just as strong after 1 year, and doesn't drop right off in frequency like normal girls.[/QUOTE]That's certainly an admirable quality in a gal. Probably would kill me though as for some reason no matter how good a gal is I lose interest in her sexually quite rapidly. I have for the most part found that women lose interest in a man faster than the man loses interest in the woman. Women are promiscuous creatures just like we are; perhaps even more so.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1657011]Pink, Americans are staying in their hemisphere for mongering. Most always have. Why? Because most Americans have very little vacation. So a quick trip to the DR or CR is just right. Plus it is cheaper and again, no jet lag.[/QUOTE]Way more Americans go to Thailand than any of those places. Last year Thailand had more US citizens visiting than ever before. Of course Thailand receives huge numbers of visitors from many nations all over the world, not only multitudes of Americans, as it is one of the top PFP destinations in the universe.

As to vacation time, Americans are not up there with Europeans, but still many get plenty of time to make it worthwhile to travel to LOS:

"USA Firms typically give their workers 10 days (two weeks) off in the first year, increasing to 25 days after 20 years. This compares to 21 days after 15 years in Japan, 25 after 20 years in Canada, and 30 days in Germany. The French are legally entitled to two and a half days of vacation per month worked, which means they're within their rights to take a full 25 days off after less than a year on the job.

"Extended leave. In Australia workers typically receive 13 weeks' paid leave after 15 years on the job.

[URL]http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2292/do-americans-get-less-vacation-than-people-in-other-developed-countries[/URL]

"Yes, thanks to the six-week vacations, the nights at the theater on Tuesday night, the idle Europeans turn out more per hour than we worker-bee Yanks.

[URL]http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2010/8/4/why-dont-americans-have-longer-vacations/the-vacation-gap-between-the-us-and-europe-is-wider-than-we-think[/URL]

". the European Union actually requires that workers receive at least 20 days of paid leave per year.

"In the USA, however, it's a different story. The average American worker earns 14 days off per year, but only takes 12 of them, according to a 2011 survey by Expedia. About a quarter of Americans don't have any vacation time at all.

[URL]http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0[/URL], 8599,2109263,00. Html.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1659026]That's certainly an admirable quality in a gal. Probably would kill me though as for some reason no matter how good a gal is I lose interest in her sexually quite rapidly. I have for the most part found that women lose interest in a man faster than the man loses interest in the woman. Women are promiscuous creatures just like we are; perhaps even more so.[/QUOTE]I don't believe for one moment my main GF could play up as much as me LOL. However she seems satiated by sex for too long. I still have high sexual desire for her after several years but simply don't get enough. My 2nd P4 P Gik has high sex desire, but obviously may get bored with me in time. She already got bored with her main BF and several other suitors more handsome than me no doubt. She likes that I am so easy going so she has no pressure and can do as she likes. I think most guys want too much control over her or don't fuck how she likes I guess. She has to lie or be deceptive to some guys but I simply make that unnecessary. She likes me to be totally honest with her too. LOL.

This desire of girls to have a guy that never lies mystifies me, but I am sort of trying it out with one girl. It may indeed strengthen a relationship. We have started to spend some time together outside a normal P4 P booking, so the relationship is starting to get a bit ambiguous and she doesn't expect me to pay for everything.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1659197]Way more Americans go to Thailand than any of those places. Last year Thailand had more US citizens visiting than ever before. Of course Thailand receives huge numbers of visitors from many nations all over the world, not only multitudes of Americans, as it is one of the top PFP destinations in the universe.
[/QUOTE]Here's a link to a very annoying site, full of ads and popups. But it's fairly recent, like 2012. Unless things have changed radically in the last two years, I think it's pretty close to accurate. Being American, this seems to square with reality.

[URL]http://www.budgettravel.com/feature/vacation-ideas-10-most-visited-cities[/URL], 9045/.

Note that Thailand is not in the top 10 destinations for Americans. Jamaica, Mexico and the DR are. I admit Puerto Rico shouldn't be there because you don't need a passport to go there, if you're an American.

The point is that maybe a majority of American sex tourists go to Thailand, as opposed to other places, but I seriously doubt it. They're a small subset of the overall number of tourists. There are loads of pretty girls in Mexico, Colombia, CR, DR, Nicaragua, etc. I've certainly met my share. And traveling to any of these places, especially from Florida, Texas, New York, is FAR easier than to anywhere in Asia. So, I am not convinced that your assertion that more Americans go to TH than any of the other places mentioned.

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1659306]
The point is that maybe a majority of American sex tourists go to Thailand, as opposed to other places, but I seriously doubt it. They're a small subset of the overall number of tourists. There are loads of pretty girls in Mexico, Colombia, CR, DR, Nicaragua, etc. I've certainly met my share. And traveling to any of these places, especially from Florida, Texas, New York, is FAR easier than to anywhere in Asia. So, I am not convinced that your assertion that more Americans go to TH than any of the other places mentioned.[/QUOTE]Canada is an option for those close to the northern border of the states, outcall is legal and there's even the occasional incall joints. Don't forget Brazil, that's a big draw for those living down south or near a major airport hub where airfare is cheaper and obtaining a visa to visit Brazil is easier. Europe is also a 'semi close' destination for many on the east coast. Again, if your at the right airport you can be in Europe in under 9 hours, compare that with a 25 hour travel time to reach Thailand.

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1659306]The point is that maybe a majority of American sex tourists go to Thailand, as opposed to other places, but I seriously doubt it. They're a small subset of the overall number of tourists. There are loads of pretty girls in Mexico, Colombia, CR, DR, Nicaragua, etc. I've certainly met my share. And traveling to any of these places, especially from Florida, Texas, New York, is FAR easier than to anywhere in Asia. So, I am not convinced that your assertion that more Americans go to TH than any of the other places mentioned.[/QUOTE]I would agree 100%. And the number has seemed to be decreasing for years; especially since '08. Truth be told most American mongers are very discreet about their activities.

I don't care where Americans like to go for sex tourism. Specially not in the Bangkok thread. The only thing relevant is how they behave when get to Bangkok, which is polite, etc. They have a good reputation in general even if sound of some americans speaking Thai with a drawl is very funny. Lower class English have a bad reputation and I cringe when I meet a loud foul mouthed group.

Possibly Americans are the most well liked Farangs in Thailand together with Danes and Norwegians. Other Farangs could try a bit of American politeness.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1659343]They have a good reputation in general even if sound of some americans speaking Thai with a drawl is very funny.[/QUOTE]Sawasdee khrap, y'all! :D

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1659379]Sawasdee khrap, y'all! :D[/QUOTE]Personally, I know lots of Brit here on the Darkside and their drawl is something to behold in laugther? Just in General the last few years I've found particularly in Go-Go's and Disco the Aussie / NZ loud and aggressive as if they are all on steriods?

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;1659391] Just in General the last few years I've found particularly in Go-Go's and Disco the Aussie / NZ loud and aggressive as if they are all on steriods?[/QUOTE]Gogos and Discos are so loud in general, how can you say someone speaks too loud. If people speak at all softly, I can't hear them. I do have problems at my work place with certain nationalities sometimes being too loud.

I get particularly annoyed when people speaking on the phone lift their level several decibels which seems totally unnecessary with little background noise situations.

I don't meet such Aussies in go gos, perhaps because I am not in Pattaya. At a Sports Pub in Bangkok I found the noisy Aussies stayed mostly outside. I stayed inside.

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;1659391]Just in General the last few years I've found particularly in Go-Go's and Disco the Aussie / NZ loud and aggressive as if they are all on steriods?[/QUOTE]Some of them probably are.

I learnt years ago that my fellow Australians are not the most considerate of travelers. Boorish, insensitive, impatient and dumb are some words that unfortunately can be accurately used to describe some (most) of us.

A couple of months ago I nearly choked on my beer when I read that the Chinese Government were conducting a public education campaign to educate their rapidly expanding middle class on how to conduct themselves when overseas. I thought to myself I hope they don't use Australians in Bali or Pattaya as an example.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1659339] Truth be told most American mongers are very discreet about their activities.[/QUOTE]Huh? Americans can't hide that they are American. Which nationalities are indiscreet? Don't understand your point at all unless you just refer to maintaining good manners in public.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1659414]Huh? Americans can't hide that they are American. Which nationalities are indiscreet? Don't understand your point at all unless you just refer to maintaining good manners in public.[/QUOTE]What I mean is that most Americans who monger are very very discreet about their activities as it could cost them their jobs, etc.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1659343]I don't care where Americans like to go for sex tourism. Specially not in the Bangkok thread. The only thing relevant is how they behave when get to Bangkok, which is polite, etc. They have a good reputation in general even if sound of some americans speaking Thai with a drawl is very funny. Lower class English have a bad reputation and I cringe when I meet a loud foul mouthed group.

Possibly Americans are the most well liked Farangs in Thailand together with Danes and Norwegians. Other Farangs could try a bit of American politeness.[/QUOTE]I would have to agree with you. I think we are quite polite folks. I would also say that most continental Europeans I have met are polite. Now, I am talking when folks are sober. When inebriated all this tends to fly out the window.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1659423]What I mean is that most Americans who monger are very very discreet about their activities as it could cost them their jobs, etc.[/QUOTE]I can't think of any Nationality that would be different. For a while my boss did not believe I had a Thai "wife" and daughter. LOL Had to show him some family pics. Ha Ha!

[QUOTE=Stykler;1659409]Some of them probably are.

I learnt years ago that my fellow Australians are not the most considerate of travelers. Boorish, insensitive, impatient and dumb are some words that unfortunately can be accurately used to describe some (most) of us.

A couple of months ago I nearly choked on my beer when I read that the Chinese Government were conducting a public education campaign to educate their rapidly expanding middle class on how to conduct themselves when overseas. I thought to myself I hope they don't use Australians in Bali or Pattaya as an example.[/QUOTE]Without wishing to divert the board, the Chinese are well aware their citizens are behaving in a very bad way and creating perception images of the chinese.

They would like to be viewed as being sweet, and soft and happy and kind. Instead they are becoming well known for being incandescent with rage at the slightest mishap on many planes (latest being the well publicised scalding of Air Asia staff because a couple couldn't sit together). When the President went to Maldives he heard that Chinese vacationers were referred to a CN's. Not standing for Chinese, but for cup noodles and that hotels were refusing to send hot water to hotel rooms. They pay US $1000 per night but only eat cup noodles. There was a case of a kid scrawling his name in chinese characters on an ancient stone in Egypt. And many more cases.

They are aware that the world is slowly turning against their arrogant boorish "me first" type behaviour. Thank goodness they are still too afraid to drink a lot when they travel! LOL.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1659406]Gogos and Discos are so loud in general, how can you say someone speaks too loud. If people speak at all softly, I can't hear them. I do have problems at my work place with certain nationalities sometimes being too loud.

I get particularly annoyed when people speaking on the phone lift their level several decibels which seems totally unnecessary with little background noise situations.

I don't meet such Aussies in go gos, perhaps because I am not in Pattaya. At a Sports Pub in Bangkok I found the noisy Aussies stayed mostly outside. I stayed inside.[/QUOTE]On many nights I have been in go go's and I'll be the first to tell you " you whites guys all look the same " they come in already having a few too many talking loud as if they were getting ready for a Ruby game. I seen this regularly at Spanky's late, they come in and take those rubber things and start to whack the shit out of the girls. They smile but inside I'm thinking otherwise? I was once at Happy Go Go, sitting enjoying my drink two guys came in one of the guys look all pumped up on something. The both was sitting in front of me on the stools had a few girls having drinks with them. Next thing I know the pump up guy jumps up and gives his buddy a fucking headlock submission move on his friend head saying " I'll break you fucking neck " His friend had glasses on and look like Bill Gates? Didn't know what he said but he was no match for his friend. The girls jumped in and all the Thai waiters tried to break it up! The guy ended up paying for the broken glasses plus replacing my drink and a few others.

When I was leaving his buddy was outside sad and trying to fix his glasses. I felt sorry for him having a friend like that? A trip ruined! Sometimes I think people come to Pattaya like the college kids go on Spring Break?

[QUOTE=FreebieFan;1659482]Without wishing to divert the board, the Chinese are well aware their citizens are behaving in a very bad way and creating perception images of the chinese.

They would like to be viewed as being sweet, and soft and happy and kind. Instead they are becoming well known for being incandescent with rage at the slightest mishap on many planes (latest being the well publicised scalding of Air Asia staff because a couple couldn't sit together). When the President went to Maldives he heard that Chinese vacationers were referred to a CN's. Not standing for Chinese, but for cup noodles and that hotels were refusing to send hot water to hotel rooms. They pay US $1000 per night but only eat cup noodles. There was a case of a kid scrawling his name in chinese characters on an ancient stone in Egypt. And many more cases.

They are aware that the world is slowly turning against their arrogant boorish "me first" type behaviour. Thank goodness they are still too afraid to drink a lot when they travel! LOL.[/QUOTE]Hey I'm Chinese but a American, I could have told you this? I have a large large family and during special events or holidays while growing up my Dad and Uncles would be standing like inches away and if you were a visitor think they were going throw a few blows in a minute. I've seen this as I traveled throughout the south of China with my cousins from Hong Kong before it fully opened up. Put in a few drinks and it gets worse? My cousins use to tell me beware doing business with the Chinese in China they couldn't be trusted many like my cousin in Hong Kong do not feel they are the same as the Chinese in the Mainland.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1659423]What I mean is that most Americans who monger are very very discreet about their activities as it could cost them their jobs, etc.[/QUOTE]Most absurd thing I ever heard. Losing a job? More like losing a wife. But that goes for all nationalities.

[QUOTE=FreebieFan;1659482]Without wishing to divert the board, the Chinese are well aware their citizens are behaving in a very bad way and creating perception images of the chinese.

They would like to be viewed as being sweet, and soft and happy and kind. Instead they are becoming well known for being incandescent with rage at the slightest mishap on many planes (latest being the well publicised scalding of Air Asia staff because a couple couldn't sit together). When the President went to Maldives he heard that Chinese vacationers were referred to a CN's. Not standing for Chinese, but for cup noodles and that hotels were refusing to send hot water to hotel rooms. They pay US $1000 per night but only eat cup noodles. There was a case of a kid scrawling his name in chinese characters on an ancient stone in Egypt. And many more cases.

They are aware that the world is slowly turning against their arrogant boorish "me first" type behaviour. Thank goodness they are still too afraid to drink a lot when they travel! LOL.[/QUOTE]You only need to visit Beijing (although I live here), but the Chinese are still country folk at best. I can't believe they spit everywhere, in the subway, inside public buildings, bathrooms, etc. When I go to HK, they look at the mainlanders with disdain, like the plague. And one only needs to look at how the government acts in the world, using fear and threats, but also mistaking fear by other countries as respect. I think it will take the Chinese ten plus years to realize that few if any countries actually respect them.

[QUOTE=Duniawala;1659596]Most absurd thing I ever heard. Losing a job? More like losing a wife. But that goes for all nationalities.[/QUOTE]Most Americans don't even speak about mongering to their closest friends.

[QUOTE=Duniawala;1659596]Most absurd thing I ever heard. Losing a job? More like losing a wife. But that goes for all nationalities.[/QUOTE]I do recall some Secret Service agents having a problem with their job. Other management or excutive level job positions might risk losing their jobs or at least future promtions.

[QUOTE=Pogostick;1658464]A few other good places for Americans to go for legal PFP are Aruba, Curacao and St Maarten. All have legal brothels stocked with Colombian and Dominican girls. Campo Alegre in Curacao is this hemisphere's largest brothel, typically with around 150 chicas each with their own apartment.[/QUOTE]Thanks for the tip. Though I read on three islands in this area there are a total of 500 PFP gals. With Thailand it is closer 500 thousand, with many more options for the punter.

Of the pics on the Campo Alegre site I saw only one that was doable or white. The trip to these places is not short or cheap, but practicly to South America. Europeans would be way better off going to Thailand, as well as Asians, Africans, Oceanic nations & even many Canadians. IOW almost the entire world.

[QUOTE=SteelDh;1658579]To chime in on the conversation I think a large percent of American mongers go to destinations in the Caribbean and south America. Places like the Dominican Republic, Costa Rica, Colombia, Brazil, Jamaica etc. The length of the flights are a big factor. The DR and Costa Rica are 3 hrs away from NY and the flights are considerably cheaper. Its easier to take a quick weekend getaway to those destinations than it is to go to Thailand, Cambodia, Jakarta etc.[/QUOTE]It makes no sense to fly to Siam from NYC for a weekend. You'ld be on airplanes and at airports almost the entire time. Even going to Cuba DR or CR etc travel would eat up quite a few hours. No doubt the vast majority of New York hobbyists would prefer to keep the cost for airfares & hotels, such as $400 to $500, in their pocket and use it to spend on local talent.

[QUOTE=FreebieFan;1659482]Without wishing to divert the board, the Chinese are well aware their citizens are behaving in a very bad way and creating perception images of the chinese.

They would like to be viewed as being sweet, and soft and happy and kind. Instead they are becoming well known for being incandescent with rage at the slightest mishap on many planes (latest being the well publicised scalding of Air Asia staff because a couple couldn't sit together). When the President went to Maldives he heard that Chinese vacationers were referred to a CN's. Not standing for Chinese, but for cup noodles and that hotels were refusing to send hot water to hotel rooms. They pay US $1000 per night but only eat cup noodles. There was a case of a kid scrawling his name in chinese characters on an ancient stone in Egypt. And many more cases.

They are aware that the world is slowly turning against their arrogant boorish "me first" type behaviour. Thank goodness they are still too afraid to drink a lot when they travel! LOL.[/QUOTE]Another Chinese American chiming in here. It's a shame that some of these nationals lack manners and common sense, but the guys that act like pricks overseas also act like pricks at home. China is going through a weird transitional phase right now and with sudden increases of wealth + the 1 child policy (higher chances of more spoiled brats), many nationals lack courtesy. With that said, the vast majority of Chinese people do not act this way, most rather avoid confrontation but since there are 1. 3 billion Chinese people, you're bound to find a couple in your lifetime. I myself haven't noticed any discrimination but I dread the day my family and I gets treated worse because of a few rotten apples. Oh well, what can you?

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1659306]Here's a link to a very annoying site, full of ads and popups. [/QUOTE]Link didn't work & was titled most visited cities whereas the subject regards countries.

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1659306]Note that Thailand is not in the top 10 destinations for Americans. Jamaica, Mexico and the DR are.[/QUOTE]The stat I've seen over 800,000 Americans visited LOS last year. I doubt the DR or Jamaica had that many, though Mexico would not surprise me as they border next to Uncle Sam. Yet Mexico doesn't have the rep as a sex tourist destination like LOS. In surveys for preferred PFP worldwide destinations Mexico hardly gets a mention. They'd be popular with their own kind in the Southern states who can speak the lingo & dare to go there, I suppose. But from the looks of the girls there, I think most Yankees would rather stay home, watch oceans full of stunning porn & jack off, LOL.

Chinese New Year falls on February 19th this year. Is this a bad time to be in BKK? I could take a slight loss and postpone to March, please let me know what to expect if you have any idea.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1659459]I can't think of any Nationality that would be different. For a while my boss did not believe I had a Thai "wife" and daughter. LOL Had to show him some family pics. Ha Ha![/QUOTE]For me it wasn't more difficult than putting a photo of my Thai GF on my office desk. Of course a new colleague came by and asked if she was my daughter. .

[QUOTE=Dg8787;1659668]I do recall some Secret Service agents having a problem with their job. Other management or excutive level job positions might risk losing their jobs or at least future promtions.[/QUOTE]That's very true. The Secret Service agents were reprimanded over hiring a prostitute in Colombia and taking her to their hotel. See-level positions are always sensitive to any hint of moral turpitude. Latest one I can think of off the top of my head in the CEO (of HP who admitted to an improper relationship with a staff member.

[QUOTE=Duniawala;1659596]Most absurd thing I ever heard. Losing a job? More like losing a wife. But that goes for all nationalities.[/QUOTE]You're apparently not up on the feminazi approach to prostitution. When I was a kid, the cops may bust a hooker and the john would skate. Then the lovely and gracious militant lesbians got control of some power and forced changes.

These days the cops like to set up sting operations. Yes, there are ways around them, but guys still get caught. The cops then arrest you, book you, and many localities publish your name and picture in the paper. Not only does the wife take you to the cleaners, your boss at that point has just cause to fire you. Moral turpitude, or whatever they call it, plus you're now a criminal. Oh, and many municipalities can confiscate your car (if you were using a car when busted) WITHOUT going to trial. If you're found not guilty you can ask for it back. Of course, by that time your life is pretty well ruined.

Now, a tip for the Yanks, according to Maxim, or a magazine like them. We all know that in the USA it's illegal to solicit a prostitute, or for one to solicit you. Sex in exchange for money is illegal. However, if I ask a girl to have sex on camera, and she signs a model release, it's suddenly no longer prostitution but "1st Amendment protected speech. " Go figure. So, if a lady asks if you want to party, tell her no. But, you're an amateur photographer and that you take pix of adult subjects for your private collection. You'd be happy to pay her to model for you. A ladycop won't go to your room with you. A real hooker normally won't have a problem. Once in the room, things can take their course. But you haven't offered sex for money, just money for 1st Amendment protected speech. Damn if our laws aren't fucked up.

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;1659524]On many nights I have been in go go's and I'll be the first to tell you " you whites guys all look the same " they come in already having a few too many talking loud as if they were getting ready for a Ruby game. I seen this regularly at Spanky's late, they come in and take those rubber things and start to whack the shit out of the girls. They smile but inside I'm thinking otherwise? I was once at Happy Go Go, sitting enjoying my drink two guys came in one of the guys look all pumped up on something. The both was sitting in front of me on the stools had a few girls having drinks with them. Next thing I know the pump up guy jumps up and gives his buddy a fucking headlock submission move on his friend head saying " I'll break you fucking neck " His friend had glasses on and look like Bill Gates? Didn't know what he said but he was no match for his friend. The girls jumped in and all the Thai waiters tried to break it up! The guy ended up paying for the broken glasses plus replacing my drink and a few others.

When I was leaving his buddy was outside sad and trying to fix his glasses. I felt sorry for him having a friend like that? A trip ruined! Sometimes I think people come to Pattaya like the college kids go on Spring Break?[/QUOTE]LBM,

I don't attend Spankies due to the loud whacking noises. Its fun only for some.

As for the fight, an isolated incident. Yes Australians can be Angry. The only fight I saw at a bar was in Crazy House. A Japanese or Korean threw a glass accross the bar. One or two slight injuries from flying glass. The culprit was not even ejected from the bar. Seems the behaviour was acceptable for a regular customer.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1659637]Most Americans don't even speak about mongering to their closest friends.[/QUOTE]Same as any other nationality, excepting buddies met at mongering locations.

[QUOTE=Kaywhy;1659605]You only need to visit Beijing (although I live here), but the Chinese are still country folk at best. I can't believe they spit everywhere, in the subway, inside public buildings, bathrooms, etc. When I go to HK, they look at the mainlanders with disdain, like the plague. And one only needs to look at how the government acts in the world, using fear and threats, but also mistaking fear by other countries as respect. I think it will take the Chinese ten plus years to realize that few if any countries actually respect them.[/QUOTE]I'm also in Beijing. Theres three things that bother me here (offset by some fair maidens who make life better! One is the endless spitting.

The other day I met someone who was new to China and said welcome to Spitland. He said what? I said well theres England, Newfoundland and now you are here in Spitland.

Then theres the smoking that goes on with total impunity. Every restaurant has no smoking signs and I've yet to see anyone follow it. "But sir, the guests will leave our restaurant if we don't let them smoke. ".

And the third is parking. These guys don't care at all. Park on pedestrian crossings, park on pavements, park in the middle of the road. No one cares.

Thank good ness for the maidens!

We all know the that the Chinese and that pub near Soi Nana called Bully's have a lot in common. .

[QUOTE=Kaywhy;1659605]You only need to visit Beijing (although I live here), but the Chinese are still country folk at best. I can't believe they spit everywhere, in the subway, inside public buildings, bathrooms, etc. When I go to HK, they look at the mainlanders with disdain, like the plague. And one only needs to look at how the government acts in the world, using fear and threats, but also mistaking fear by other countries as respect. I think it will take the Chinese ten plus years to realize that few if any countries actually respect them.[/QUOTE]Spitting has been a gross on-going problem with mainland Chinese when they go overseas. Now that they have money, they are visiting and / or moving overseas. I belong to a gym / health club and you can hear them spitting out big wads of spit in the shower. What's really gross is when they swim and spit out wads of spit into or near the floor drain. You give them a look of disdain and disgust, but they're clueless.

Sadly, I'm part Chinese so I get a lot flak for their behavior. It's as if I'm expected to personally change or correct it. A fellow gym member mentioned his disgust to me and I told him that he should be grateful that they're not pissing in the shower or the pool. They still might be doing it, but at least they're a bit more discreet.

[QUOTE=Yujin;1659757]Spitting has been a gross on-going problem with mainland Chinese when they go overseas. Now that they have money, they are visiting and / or moving overseas. I belong to a gym / health club and you can hear them spitting out big wads of spit in the shower. What's really gross is when they swim and spit out wads of spit into or near the floor drain. You give them a look of disdain and disgust, but they're clueless.

Sadly, I'm part Chinese so I get a lot flak for their behavior. It's as if I'm expected to personally change or correct it. A fellow gym member mentioned his disgust to me and I told him that he should be grateful that they're not pissing in the shower or the pool. They still might be doing it, but at least they're a bit more discreet.[/QUOTE]What's needed? A class required every term starting from year one in every mainland Chinese school. "How to behave like a human being. ".

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1659678]Link didn't work & was titled most visited cities whereas the subject regards countries.

The stat I've seen over 800,000 Americans visited LOS last year. I doubt the DR or Jamaica had that many, though Mexico would not surprise me as they border next to Uncle Sam. Yet Mexico doesn't have the rep as a sex tourist destination like LOS. In surveys for preferred PFP worldwide destinations Mexico hardly gets a mention. They'd be popular with their own kind in the Southern states who can speak the lingo & dare to go there, I suppose. But from the looks of the girls there, I think most Yankees would rather stay home, watch oceans full of stunning porn & jack off, LOL.[/QUOTE]I would imagine that the majority of those 800 k were not single male sex tourists.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1659726]LBM,

I don't attend Spankies due to the loud whacking noises. Its fun only for some.

As for the fight, an isolated incident. Yes Australians can be Angry. The only fight I saw at a bar was in Crazy House. A Japanese or Korean threw a glass accross the bar. One or two slight injuries from flying glass. The culprit was not even ejected from the bar. Seems the behaviour was acceptable for a regular customer.[/QUOTE]Correct certainly a isolated incident! Crazy house I'm surprise because as a tourist? They are really tame compare to when they are home. Although I have not visited in decades Japanese and Korean I can see this happening. The fight I saw they also didn't throw him out. Got him to settle down and he ended up staying. His friend? As noted I felt sorry for regardless of what was said between friends this should have never happen especially on holiday as a wing man?

I've seen two fights at Happy, a few years ago it was with two girls working there?

[QUOTE=WhereYouGo;1659693]Chinese New Year falls on February 19th this year. Is this a bad time to be in BKK? I could take a slight loss and postpone to March, please let me know what to expect if you have any idea.[/QUOTE]Girls go home. You should stay home too.

A disturbing trend I'm noticing. A lot of flat-chested girls are being barfined. OK-not disturbing but funny.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1659759]What's needed? A class required every term starting from year one in every mainland Chinese school. "How to behave like a human being. ".[/QUOTE]Many years back, the Tawianese had to attend classes before they were allowed to travel. ACtually not just attend, but pass a test too.

The course content was " How to Behave" and centred on how not to draw adverse attention to yourself. Ie don't shout, don't queue jump don't spit, don't do anything to create a bad impression. Taiwanese are lovely people who talk softly, they will always stop at a crossing, and will queue in an orderly fashion.

Sadly, their compatriots don't know any of these, despite travelling and seeing normal people in normal countries behaving in " normal" ways. Many Chinese are quite normal and arent loud and pushy but theres a lot who only know "me first " and " I don't give a shit about you" mentality.

And the chickens are coming home to roost, as the world slowly turns on them, for their lack of manners and boorish behaviour. .

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1659717]However, if I ask a girl to have sex on camera, and she signs a model release, it's suddenly no longer prostitution but "1st Amendment protected speech. " Go figure. [/QUOTE]In the States, this is true only in California due to a particular California supreme court case. That's why the adult film industry is entirely located within the state of California. Other states have either found otherwise, or folks haven't been brave enough to try their luck in other states.

So, I would definitely not ever suggest employing this strategy anywhere in the States outside of California.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1659678]Link didn't work & was titled most visited cities whereas the subject regards countries.

The stat I've seen over 800,000 Americans visited LOS last year. I doubt the DR or Jamaica had that many, though Mexico would not surprise me as they border next to Uncle Sam. Yet Mexico doesn't have the rep as a sex tourist destination like LOS. In surveys for preferred PFP worldwide destinations Mexico hardly gets a mention. They'd be popular with their own kind in the Southern states who can speak the lingo & dare to go there, I suppose. But from the looks of the girls there, I think most Yankees would rather stay home, watch oceans full of stunning porn & jack off, LOL.[/QUOTE]Pink I can only speak for Tijuana. This will surprise you but it is an excellent weekend PFP getaway. You won't get long time but you will get a pretty girl at a decent rate. And the pretty girls are available to all. Unlike the beauties of LOS who are more picky now about who they go with. Tijuana to be sure is no BKK or Pattaya but is a nice getaway for Southern Californians.

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1659717]You're apparently not up on the feminazi approach to prostitution. When I was a kid, the cops may bust a hooker and the john would skate. Then the lovely and gracious militant lesbians got control of some power and forced changes.
[/QUOTE]Some of us were trying to discuss a somewhat Bangkok topic for once, an you want to go off on a USA (or Swedish) tangent again. USA topics get rather boring, especially for a lot of us who don't live there and don't wish to be there for mongering or any other reason. I wish we had an Expats thread here for you guys to discuss anything you like about the homeland.

I don't mind a little tangential stuff, but its getting to be just too high a percentage lately. This is supposed to be related to mongering or sex in Bangkok and "related" issues.

The forum does have USA Threads. I don't ever read them though.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1659852]Some of us were trying to discuss a somewhat Bangkok topic for once, an you want to go off on a USA (or Swedish) tangent again. USA topics get rather boring, especially for a lot of us who don't live there and don't wish to be there for mongering or any other reason. I wish we had an Expats thread here for you guys to discuss anything you like about the homeland.

I don't mind a little tangential stuff, but its getting to be just too high a percentage lately. This is supposed to be related to mongering or sex in Bangkok and "related" issues.

The forum does have USA Threads. I don't ever read them though.[/QUOTE]There is a long history as to why people like myself do not use the Expat section. I always look at it as what goes around comes around this is just the history of the Website? Everything written is related in some way when you dig deep enough even if it is one or two words? If it isn't about the USA, it is about China, India, Europe, Aussie? That is why it is called " International " all this stuff related to what Bangkok has become? Dead and expensive? So everyone compares and talk about other countries which in turn should give everyone a hint it is still pretty damn good here no matter what is written or not written. I'm learning a lot.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1659678]Link didn't work & was titled most visited cities whereas the subject regards countries.

The stat I've seen over 800,000 Americans visited LOS last year. I doubt the DR or Jamaica had that many, though Mexico would not surprise me as they border next to Uncle Sam. Yet Mexico doesn't have the rep as a sex tourist destination like LOS. In surveys for preferred PFP worldwide destinations Mexico hardly gets a mention. They'd be popular with their own kind in the Southern states who can speak the lingo & dare to go there, I suppose. But from the looks of the girls there, I think most Yankees would rather stay home, watch oceans full of stunning porn & jack off, LOL.[/QUOTE]Had you read the article you would have seen that they took the countries most visited by Americans, and then winnowed out the most popular destinations within those countries. Thailand didn't make the top 10.

Look at this one:

[URL]http://www.travelweekly.com/Caribbean-Travel/Dominican-Republic-tops-in-Caribbean-tourism-and-growing/[/URL]

DR had 1. 6 MILLION American tourists in 2013, roughly double your 800,000.

Jamaica had around 1. 3 MILLION Americans in 2012:

[URL]http://www.jtbonline.org/statistics/Annual%20Travel/Annual%20Travel%20Statistics%202012.pdf[/URL]

Wikipedia shows American visits at just over 800,000 in 2013.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Thailand#Top_20_arrivals_by_nationality

That makes roughly 3 MILLION tourists in two Caribbean islands in one year. Thailand gets about 40% of that total. So. I think you're wrong about DR and Jamaica.

Dare to go to Mexico? Have you been there?

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1659852]Some of us were trying to discuss a somewhat Bangkok topic for once, an you want to go off on a USA (or Swedish) tangent again. USA topics get rather boring, especially for a lot of us who don't live there and don't wish to be there for mongering or any other reason. I wish we had an Expats thread here for you guys to discuss anything you like about the homeland.

I don't mind a little tangential stuff, but its getting to be just too high a percentage lately. This is supposed to be related to mongering or sex in Bangkok and "related" issues.

The forum does have USA Threads. I don't ever read them though.[/QUOTE]I agree things are getting a bit ridiculous. And unfortunately when people start talking in a Bangkok thread about, for example, such tangential stuff as femnazies in the United States, or the spitting habits of Mainland Chinese, it only provokes the posting of a lot of irrelevant nonsense.

[QUOTE=Allover;1659830]Pink I can only speak for Tijuana. This will surprise you but it is an excellent weekend PFP getaway. You won't get long time but you will get a pretty girl at a decent rate. And the pretty girls are available to all. Unlike the beauties of LOS who are more picky now about who they go with. Tijuana to be sure is no BKK or Pattaya but is a nice getaway for Southern Californians.[/QUOTE]That's one reason why if I ever move back to the states, San Diego would be a place I would consider. That and just amazing weather.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1659760]I would imagine that the majority of those 800 k were not single male sex tourists.[/QUOTE]That would be true of tourists to any country. Though I have seen reports of some planes to LOS being full of guys. It's mostly males in the arrivals lineups whenever I visit BKK. OTOH to DR apparently a large percentage of tourists arrive by cruise ship.

[URL]http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/tourism/2014/1/2/50109/Dominican-Republic-gets-3-more-tourists-in-2013[/URL]

Also the DR doesn't sound all that appealing:

"Dominican Republic. Exercise a high degree of caution.

"There is no nationwide advisory in effect for the Dominican Republic. However, you should exercise a high degree of caution due to a high crime rate.

"The official language of the Dominican Republic is Spanish.

"The hurricane season extends from June to the end of November.

"The Dominican Republic is located in an active seismic zone.

"Violent crime (including assault) against foreigners occasionally occurs. Petty crime (including pickpocketing) is common in urban areas. Thefts have been reported in resorts, including in hotel rooms and hotel room safes.

[URL]http://travel.gc.ca/destinations/dominican-republic[/URL]

"Vaccinations: Suggested.

"Foreign tourists are often considered attractive targets for criminal activity and you should maintain a low profile to avoid becoming a victim of violence or crime.

"The dangers present in the Dominican Republic are similar to those of many major USA Cities. Criminals many have weapons and are likely to use them if they meet resistance. Visitors walking the streets should always be aware of their surroundings. Be wary of strangers, especially those who seek you out at celebrations or nightspots. Travel with a partner or in a group if possible.

"While pick pocketing and mugging are the most common crimes against tourists, reports of violence against both foreigners and locals are growing. Crime levels tend to rise during the Christmas season. You should take extra precautions when visiting the Dominican Republic between November and January.

"Credit card fraud is common in the Dominican Republic and has increased significantly in Santo Domingo and other resort areas of the country.

"Minimize the use of automated teller machines (ATMs), which are present throughout Santo Domingo and other major cities. ATM fraud schemes often result in cards becoming jammed within the ATM card reader. Once the card owner has concluded the card is irretrievable, the thieves extract the card for their use. Sophisticated "insiders" scams also occur, where criminals access and manipulate electronic data entered by legitimate card holders at properly functioning ATMs to steal funds from checking accounts.

"We strongly advise visitors to the Dominican Republic to take only hotel taxis or taxis operated by services whose cabs are arranged in advance by phone and can subsequently be identified and tracked.

[URL]http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/country/dominican-republic.html[/URL]

"Latin American countries seem to have this comical fascination with white skin. The underclass is predominantly non-white while the newspapers, TV, professional and leadership positions are almost exclusively white. This is true, despite the fact that whites are overwhelmingly in the minority in this country. Remarkable.

"The typical Dominican almost looks like the typical African-American in the United States.

"It is as if you are in South Africa before Apartheid ended.

[URL]http://www.****************1999-archive/4940-treatment-african-americans-dr.html[/URL]

"The DR is a safe country to travel, if you know how to travel and you speak a bit of spanish.

[URL]https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100504112102AACY0pV[/URL]

"A sentinel surveillance study in 2006 reported that prevalence among prostitutes, or commercial sex workers (CSWs), is 4. 1 percent (2. 4 to 6. 5 percent, depending on location).

[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV/AIDS_in_the_Dominican_Republic[/URL]

"Padilla examines the social and structural factors that contribute to the high rate of HIV and drug use within tourism zones in the Caribbean. ".

[URL]http://anthropology.msu.edu/anp204-us14/2014/08/08/hiv-in-the-dominican-republic/[/URL]

"Reflecting global patterns, heterosexual sex is the main route of HIV transmission throughout the region and largely associated with commercial paid sex.

"HIV prevalence amongst sex workers varies across the region, from 1 percent in Cuba, up to 17 percent in Guyana.

"Migration between islands and countries is common, contributing to the spread of HIV and blurring the boundaries between different national epidemics.

[URL]http://www.avert.org/hiv-aids-caribbean.htm[/URL]

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1659869]That would be true of tourists to any country. Though I have seen reports of some planes to LOS being full of guys. It's mostly males in the arrivals lineups whenever I visit BKK. OTOH to DR apparently a large percentage of tourists arrive by cruise ship.

[URL]http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/tourism/2014/1/2/50109/Dominican-Republic-gets-3-more-tourists-in-2013[/URL]

Also the DR doesn't sound all that appealing:

"Dominican Republic. Exercise a high degree of caution.

"There is no nationwide advisory in effect for the Dominican Republic. However, you should exercise a high degree of caution due to a high crime rate.

"The official language of the Dominican Republic is Spanish.

"The hurricane season extends from June to the end of November.

"The Dominican Republic is located in an active seismic zone.

"Violent crime (including assault) against foreigners occasionally occurs. Petty crime (including pickpocketing) is common in urban areas. Thefts have been reported in resorts, including in hotel rooms and hotel room safes.

[URL]http://travel.gc.ca/destinations/dominican-republic[/URL]

"Vaccinations: Suggested.

"Foreign tourists are often considered attractive targets for criminal activity and you should maintain a low profile to avoid becoming a victim of violence or crime.

"The dangers present in the Dominican Republic are similar to those of many major USA Cities. Criminals many have weapons and are likely to use them if they meet resistance. Visitors walking the streets should always be aware of their surroundings. Be wary of strangers, especially those who seek you out at celebrations or nightspots. Travel with a partner or in a group if possible...[/QUOTE]I have found places that are more edgy to be far better for gals overall. Why? Because there are fewer tourists there. Cheaper, more fun, and better attitudes. When they become safe and mainstream they are overrun and ruined. Cambo in the late 90's was great. I hear that Columbia when it was dangerous was wonderful as well. Beautiful gals for 10 bucks. Once they are safe and discovered it is over.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1659637]Most Americans don't even speak about mongering to their closest friends.[/QUOTE]That's because they are conservatives on the outside (for show). Where do you think is the easiest to pick up girls (don't mean P4 P) in America? Churches in the Bible belt.

As far as the Secret Agents go, they were on the President's security detail. Mongering puts them at serious security risk.

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1659717]Now, a tip for the Yanks, according to Maxim, or a magazine like them. We all know that in the USA it's illegal to solicit a prostitute, or for one to solicit you. Sex in exchange for money is illegal. However, if I ask a girl to have sex on camera, and she signs a model release, it's suddenly no longer prostitution but "1st Amendment protected speech. " Go figure. So, if a lady asks if you want to party, tell her no. But, you're an amateur photographer and that you take pix of adult subjects for your private collection. You'd be happy to pay her to model for you. A ladycop won't go to your room with you. A real hooker normally won't have a problem. Once in the room, things can take their course. But you haven't offered sex for money, just money for 1st Amendment protected speech. Damn if our laws aren't fucked up.[/QUOTE]I remember the time when hookers in Las Vegas carried a copy of the Supreme Court Decision about the "1st Amendment Protected Speech" in their bags and their business cards and advertisements actually had a reference to that decision.

[QUOTE=Breadman;1659309]Canada is an option for those close to the northern border of the states, outcall is legal and there's even the occasional incall joints. Don't forget Brazil, that's a big draw for those living down south or near a major airport hub where airfare is cheaper and obtaining a visa to visit Brazil is easier. Europe is also a 'semi close' destination for many on the east coast. Again, if your at the right airport you can be in Europe in under 9 hours, compare that with a 25 hour travel time to reach Thailand.[/QUOTE]Since December 6, 2014 buying sex in Canada is illegal, the same as it is generally in the USA.

Certainly Europe is closer than LOS for some Americans, but on the whole pricey compared to third world dirt poor Thailand.

Thailand offers way more bang for the buck & better menu diversity without the attitudes.

LOS also gives one quick access to other SEA and Asian destinations full of PFP variety.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1659852]The forum does have USA Threads. I don't ever read them though.[/QUOTE]Where are these USA discussions. I've never seen them. Only Canada & Mexico are listed for North America. Though the BKK thread here seems best suited for comparisons between Bangkok, Thailand & "God's country".

[QUOTE=LAGuy5;1659867]I agree things are getting a bit ridiculous. And unfortunately when people start talking in a Bangkok thread about, for example, such tangential stuff as femnazies in the United States, or the spitting habits of Mainland Chinese, it only provokes the posting of a lot of irrelevant nonsense.[/QUOTE]Dude! Thread hijacking is a wonderful sport. You should try it. :D

Merry Christmas to all!

Hi,

I am planning to visit Thailand end of Feb. To first week of March.

Please suggest me place where I should stay for easy and good pick up of girls.

Thanks in advance.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1660049]..........Where are these USA discussions. I've never seen them. Only Canada & Mexico are listed for North America. .................[/QUOTE]Here you go.

[URL]http://usasexguide.info/forum/[/URL]

Whats the reasoning behind 1000 baht barfines on Dec. 24? If its to keep the girls in the bar. Seems it works.

Christmas eve in Thai don't seem to be a big deal! I'm pretty sure Christmas day is no biggie either.

[QUOTE=Bang4444;1660360]Hi,

I am planning to visit Thailand end of Feb. To first week of March.

Please suggest me place where I should stay for easy and good pick up of girls.

Thanks in advance.[/QUOTE]As a newbie here, you are just asking for some not-so-nice responses to this post. Perhaps you could read back in this forum for a few months, get a basic idea of what is available, refine your questions, and then try posting again.

SW4.

[QUOTE=Bang4444;1660360]
...Where I should stay for easy and good pick up of girls?

[/QUOTE]Sir William is right. Read back a few months in the BKK Hotel thread to see BM reviews on many of the best possibilities. There is no shortage of good accommodations in the Sukhumvit, BKK neighborhood at all price points. Once you settle into your digs, you will find yourself literally tripping over friendly girls looking to make a connection on any Suk Soi corner and more importantly you will be very close to some of the best venues in town. To start you off in the right direction; check out the Phachara Suites Hotel. A friend of mine likes this hotel a lot. I like the 1 bedroom suites at the Fraser, Admiral Premiere, Grand Mercure Asoke, and the Grande Center Point T21. Prices range from around 1900bt to 4800bt a night for suites at these hotels.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;1659974]I have found places that are more edgy to be far better for gals overall. Why? Because there are fewer tourists there. Cheaper, more fun, and better attitudes. When they become safe and mainstream they are overrun and ruined. Cambo in the late 90's was great. I hear that Columbia when it was dangerous was wonderful as well. Beautiful gals for 10 bucks. Once they are safe and discovered it is over.[/QUOTE]IMO the reason the edgy more dangerous places offer more bang for the buck is that they tend to be poorer. They don't necessarily have less tourists, as AC & BKK amply prove. Though IME service & attitudes in BKK appear to improve during the low season when there are fewer tourists than in high season.

As for the Dominican Republic, I have no idea re how cheap, fun or the attitudes there. Never been in the Caribbean or researched PFP there. Though if you like white or Oriental babes, you will be disappointed.

Even generally expensive nations usually have cheap options, like the USA:

"So, hooked up with Shannon today. Went to her house in Pasadena about 12:20. Went down to the basement. Agreed on half / half for. 60. Laid down on an air mattress that was on the floor. She started me off with a really nice BBBJ. Got me nice and hard. I put some lube on and switch to some BBFS from behind. Hit it nice and hard doggy-style for several minutes which led to a nice pop inside. Paid her. Got dressed. Was out by 12:45. Will definitely repeat. Number for trade available to trusted seniors. ".

[URL]http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?3735-Streetwalker-Reports&[/URL]

From a recent Baltimore streetwalker report.

[QUOTE=Bang4444;1660360]Hi,

I am planning to visit Thailand end of Feb. To first week of March.

Please suggest me place where I should stay for easy and good pick up of girls.

Thanks in advance.[/QUOTE]I was there last may and I think the best place to stay is around the Nana Hotel. Though I didn't stay there because I felt it was not a good deal. 1500 baht a night and it seemed a bit shabby, you cannot beat the location. Walk outside and there are 20+ sw at the street. Cross the street and the Nana strip go go's, walk a few blocks. Ambassador disco w FLs lots of them though way over priced. Also easy access to public train system. I also liked all the street vendors on the main road that passes by the Nana. Can't remember the name. If you are on the cheap as you pass the Nana (on the right) about 100 m on the right there is a 7_11 and a road / alley to the left. The first hotel down the alley on the right is nice / clean / modern small, no windows but 600 baht a night. I stayed there, a bit of a cave, but I only used it to sleep and take girls to do. They also do st for 300 baht. At the end of the alley there is also a hostel 100 baht a night, bunk beds with lockable drawer, bring own lock or buy cheap one. Not conclusive to bringing girls back. I too will be in LOS at the end of Feb. For 10 days but I will only spend a night in Bangkok and head to Pattaya for most of the trip. I feel it is much better place for girls and better atmosphere. If you want to meet up and go hunting, let me know.

Can any one put some light on after hour clubs scene, Club like Bossy, Spicy, Mixx and Swing. Last time when I was there all of them were getting closed at 3. Not a single bar or club was allowed to be open after 3. Scene is still the same or there has been some changes in timing? I Miss those days when you were allowed to party till 5 in morning in after hours clubs. I am planning a short trip in Feb so any kind of update will be highly appreciated.

Thanks in advance and wish everyone Merry Christmas.

[QUOTE=Bang4444;1660360]Hi,

I am planning to visit Thailand end of Feb. To first week of March.

Please suggest me place where I should stay for easy and good pick up of girls.

Thanks in advance.[/QUOTE]The whole of Bangkok is only a short taxi-ride or trip on the BTS away from Nana or Soi Cowboy, so any hotel in Central Bangkok would be OK.

But if you want to be really close to where the action is, then choose a hotel near Nana or Soi Cowboy, in other words somewhere near the lower part of Sukhumvit Road. Go to a website such as [URL]htttp:/www.booking.com[/URL], tick the "Sukhumvit" box, choose the map and zoom in on the western part of Sulhumvit Road. There are scores of hotels to choose from, depending on your budget and style.

Of course you also want to to go through a few weeks (months?) of reports here on the forum to get more detailed advice.

Personally I favour Citypoint Hotel ([URL]http://citypointhotel.com/[/URL]) for a shorter stay and Citadines 23 ([URL]http://www.citadines.com/en/thailand/bangkok/sukhumvit23.html[/URL]) for a longer stay.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;1660531]IMO the reason the edgy more dangerous places offer more bang for the buck is that they tend to be poorer. They don't necessarily have less tourists, as AC & BKK amply prove. Though IME service & attitudes in BKK appear to improve during the low season when there are fewer tourists than in high season.

As for the Dominican Republic, I have no idea re how cheap, fun or the attitudes there. Never been in the Caribbean or researched PFP there. Though if you like white or Oriental babes, you will be disappointed.

Even generally expensive nations usually have cheap options, like the USA:

"So, hooked up with Shannon today. Went to her house in Pasadena about 12:20. Went down to the basement. Agreed on half / half for. 60. Laid down on an air mattress that was on the floor. She started me off with a really nice BBBJ. Got me nice and hard. I put some lube on and switch to some BBFS from behind. Hit it nice and hard doggy-style for several minutes which led to a nice pop inside. Paid her. Got dressed. Was out by 12:45. Will definitely repeat. Number for trade available to trusted seniors. ".

[URL]http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?3735-Streetwalker-Reports&[/URL]

From a recent Baltimore streetwalker report.[/QUOTE]AC and BKK are far from edgy. I would say BKK used to be a bit edgy, but now, not at all. Edgy was Cambo in the 90's. And Columbia in in the late 90's early '00's. Yes, danger is a factor. Once a place is considered "safe" and on the radar, there will be folks going there, unless there is really nothing for tourists to see there. The later is why Jakarta is still such a great place for mongering. Unless I had a job there I would not choose to live there, as there is not a lot to do. But for gals at all price levels, it is hard to beat.

To all my friends who post in the Thailand forums, all the best for a great Mongermas. Go out there and find your Mary Magdalene for the evening.

[QUOTE=Aviator12;1657908]Visited Crazy House last night and it was full. But I have never understood the "hype" of this bar. The girls are mostly average, even though there are some stunning girls there. But in my opinion the mamasans are too pushy and there is a lack of good atmosphere in this bar. Temperature is too cold so most girls complain about this all the time.
SNIP
[/QUOTE]I concur. With the addition that the music is extremely loud. I had to get out of there after 45 minutes because I was seriously afraid of hearling loss.
I went there around 9 PM yesterday and since it was Christmas Eve I expected the place to be packed. But to my surprise it wasn't. It was only filled for approximately 2/3 and the second floor wasn't even in use.
I did understand the hype of this bar because the line up was often wonderful and most of the girls dance nude and often sit with you nude as well. But yesterday the line up was the worst I have ever seen there. Only a few lookers.

Maybe (and I want to emphasize that this is just a theory!) they have lost their best girls to other agogo's where they don't have to dance nude all the time and sit nude with the customers. I can imagine that a lot of girls don't like that very much especially if customers have their hands all over them almost right away.
And the 'big mamasan' in particular is not a very nice person so she might scare away some girls as well. But again, this is just a theory.

So I left the place around 10 PM and walked back to my hotel in Soi 4 in the hope to 'catch' a nice SW. And I did. At one of the bus stops along Sukhumvit I spotted a cute young girl who could very well be a WG. Just to be sure I asked her if she was waiting for the bus but she shook her head. She didn't say anything and with some hand gestures she made clear to me that she was mute! Not deaf mute as I initially thought but only mute.
Then she showed me a small piece of paper that said something like "Sexy girl for you, 1 hour 1500 Bath". She seemed to be a very nice girl and when I had negotioted the price down to 1000 Bath I took her to my hotel.

Communicating wasn't easy but we managed by typing 'messages' on my phone and the use of Google Translate (her English was basic).
She was really lovely and although she didn't want to give a BJ which was a bit of a disappointment I had a good time with her. She had a beautifull little body (no kids) and a nicely trimmed pussy that felt great. It just had the right combination of tightness, wetness and smoothness.

God I love the gems you find on the streets every now and then!

[QUOTE=Mogwai;1660738]I concur. With the addition that the music is extremely loud. I had to get out of there after 45 minutes because I was seriously afraid of hearling loss.
I went there around 9 PM yesterday and since it was Christmas Eve I expected the place to be packed. But to my surprise it wasn't. It was only filled for approximately 2/3 and the second floor wasn't even in use.
I did understand the hype of this bar because the line up was often wonderful and most of the girls dance nude and often sit with you nude as well. But yesterday the line up was the worst I have ever seen there. Only a few lookers.
[/QUOTE]You have to be careful about not sitting right at a speaker and also sit to avoid the direct line of air conditioners. This is not easy if bar is very full.

I noticed the line up is quite variable. 1 reason is some of best girls are not working daily but only on like Friday, Saturday. Some seem to be free lance and turn up when they feel like it. Another issue is better girls getting barfined very early. The line up has dropped off from earlier standard. They are starting to take to many ordinary type of girls. Most stunning girl ever Nut is gone a few months. Another hot girl doesn't take clothes off any more.

What's more many girls have been getting nose jobs and spoiling their appearance IMHO.

One day I attended recently I noticed a predominance of Farangs rather than Japanese. This seemed strange. My interest in this bar has certainly dropped off with the decline of beauty and increase in nose jobs. I suppose still a few cuties.

All bargirls I really think are both worthwhile and very good looking are elsewhere at the moment.

I do see too much high pressure sell with new customers. Mamasans know to leave me alone though.