Bangkok Reports

[QUOTE=Questner;2364702]8,000 THB per hour.[/QUOTE]That's too much really? Or is it for the night LT.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2364707]I don't think finding P4P girls in Thailand was ever a problem and did not require much of what you mention, Goatscrot. My first visit to Thailand was some 25-30 years ago when there was no internet. There were a lot of travel books to find out about hotel rates, directions to the bars, typical costs, etc and they were available to anyone and everyone all over the world.

When I came here in those days, I never talked to an expat, never had to do any digging to find and partake of the exact same kind of venues every expat I know goes to today. And I don't notice the crowds at these venues any larger than they were 25-30 years ago.[/QUOTE]I think Thailand was not a problem. My first trip to Thailand in the late 90s, I was getting laid by a hottie within the first hour I arrived and I knew nothing about Bangkok. I also found all of the popular night spots in Bangkok very easily. I was only in Bangkok 1 week and I found Soi Cowboy, Nana, Patpong, Soapy massages, etc. I also hit most of the popular tourist places with my "tour guide" I met on day one.

However, a place like Indonesia is exactly the opposite. 20 years ago, we used to say that Indonesia was the world's best kept secret. The internet has drastically changed things there. I visited Jakarta immediately after I had visited Thailand for the first time. Unfortunately, I had far less success in Jakarta back then. My first trip to Jakarta it took me two months before I found the places to go in town. Jakarta sucked before I discovered where to go. Once I did discover the places, it was Heaven. Now, that information is all readily available on internet. It has had a negative effect on Indonesia. Indonesia was way more fun 20 years ago (after you paid your dues to find out where to go).

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2364707]I don't think finding P4P girls in Thailand was ever a problem and did not require much of what you mention, Goatscrot. My first visit to Thailand was some 25-30 years ago when there was no internet. There were a lot of travel books to find out about hotel rates, directions to the bars, typical costs, etc and they were available to anyone and everyone all over the world.

When I came here in those days, I never talked to an expat, never had to do any digging to find and partake of the exact same kind of venues every expat I know goes to today. And I don't notice the crowds at these venues any larger than they were 25-30 years ago.

However, the internet, smartphones, social network apps and so on have definitely had an impact and changed the environment, no doubt about that. But not all for the negative.

If I had to cite the biggest internet related negative for the P4P experience vs decades ago, it would probably be these; the girls can now get a lot of their emotional, playful, friendly interaction needs met by looking down at their smartphone screen and they can easily line up the next booking within 1 minute while we are taking a pisss in the bathroom.[/QUOTE]Yep, travel books, and that is a lot more effort than opening up the computer and doing a web search. Information is instant now. And those guide books had a little, not a lot about the P4 P scene. I would say that information was harder to come by and spread by word of mouth. Also Thailand was considered a bit "edgy" for lack of a better term. In my view, for the most part the internet has been a negative influence on the P4 P scene. Of course first and foremost is the fact gals can run their business from their phone. When the powers that be really get around to "cleaning things up," that'll be the main way. For some punters it is great, I've never cottoned to it. I prefer old fashioned brothels and soapies with hundreds of gals. Those days are over.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2364692]It's made things worse. Easier to find information makes for too many punters. When you had to come over, talk to expats, and dig it out for yourself, it was far better.[/QUOTE]With the internet women can pick and choose who they want to fuck from a large male population, if they want to fuck at all.

The internet also allows many women to make money without fucking. There are a lot of guys in the west sending money to Thai women they've never even met, because they're pretty, they showed a nipples, or "she really loves" them.

And the internet opened up the reality to a whole new "style" of people who never would have traveled the world alone and went out and found stuff like we did. When you get the point and click guys it's like the group tourists from China or the stereotypical American tourist with the Hawaiian shirt and 5 pound camera around his neck. They get chewed up and spit out by business people charging 10 x the normal rate, then they go to facebook and brag about how great it was.

Anyway, no sense moaning. The cat's out of the bag, and it's going to be this way going forward.

Just fuck the fat stretch marked single moms who charge more than Eastern European beauties for a fuck, or do the guy says: stay home and wank.

[QUOTE=RickRock;2364746]With the internet women can pick and choose who they want to fuck from a large male population, if they want to fuck at all.

The internet also allows many women to make money without fucking. There are a lot of guys in the west sending money to Thai women they've never even met, because they're pretty, they showed a nipples, or "she really loves" them..[/QUOTE]Ah, yes, that is another negative impact on P4P. But maybe not a lot. I am not so sure many of the internet-only, no-sex honeys making a killing with love sick puppies on the internet today would instead be shuffling around naked on a go-go bar stage in hopes of getting barfined for sex with strangers even if the internet didn't exist anyway. Much like younger, hotter, no-barfine/no-sex Coyotes standing outside the bars hustling lady drink suckers. I honestly doubt many of those would be working inside the bar, on the stage and under the usual terms even if there was not such a career as "Lady Drink Only Coyote Scammer."

I don't recall the hottest girls in the city working in the bars available for barfining even decades ago. And I have not seen photos of "Golden Age" go-go girls looking all that much better than the ones working in the bars and available for barfine and sex today.

However, that option as a part time job for supplemental income can give regular P4P girls an excuse to give crappy service without as much risk of falling short of rent and food money. Which relates to my pet peeve about how and why service levels have declined; because low demand customers have allowed it to decline, even encouraged it to decline.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2364752]
I don't recall the hottest girls in the city working in the bars available for barfining even decades ago. And I have not seen photos of "Golden Age" go-go girls looking all that much better than the ones working in the bars and available for barfine and sex today.[/QUOTE]Yes this one I agree with. There are those that say the standard of bargirls declined, yet I challenge to bring out their photos of 20 to 30 years ago and show us the "stunners". In reality there were not so many actually stunning, perhaps young with a good body. That somehow got defined as pretty, when for me it is not the same thing at all. Many posters even say they don't care about what the girl's face looks like.

Long ago we happy to find young girls not too ugly after being used to a low standard back home. Now we get more picky, or at least I do. I look back at some of my old photos, and a portion of those girls would be rejected today. I looked at my old photos and girls tended to be less pretty that what I remembered. Some seemed pretty at the time but years later, look somewhat ordinary.

To some extent there is a marked decline for some of us, now that many bars are dominated by surgeries girls, and me being allergic to a bad nose or tit job, may tolerate only a good one. So these days a lot more girls trying to look like Ladyboys, it would seem. Now girls can get away with being no-fuck Coyotes where those did not exist 20 years back (or very few show only girls). Still 15 years ago we still did get refusals. Girls that did not want to fuck. We also had girls that would stay very long time indeed and not really want to leave (in contrast to today where that does not happen. Maybe partly because I changed to be an old guy).

Stunning hookers have always been scarce, and they just don't last that long before taken away, unless they are really bad personality. My best looking girls ever from the bar, did not last a year, and so I got to do them a very limited number of times each. Same goes for most pretty MP girls. Only one or two I recall lasted more than a year.

At Crazy House, I got to do 3 exceptionally pretty girls, Nat (18 and once only), May-Lee (twice only), and Donut (maybe 5 times). These were all in last 3 years I think. I can't find any of my old bargirls as pretty, except maybe Noi from Long Gun (who was a lousy fuck).

Possibly the standard of girls (non surgery types) in the Soapies did really decline over the years as they maybe had better options these days. Maybe that is also true for Oily girls where the average standard of looks may have declined, not that average girls ever interested me greatly. There are better paying options for the pretty ones. Hence have not done a Tulip girl for years.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2364707]I don't think finding P4P girls in Thailand was ever a problem and did not require much of what you mention, Goatscrot. My first visit to Thailand was some 25-30 years ago when there was no internet. There were a lot of travel books to find out about hotel rates, directions to the bars, typical costs, etc and they were available to anyone and everyone all over the world.
[/QUOTE]Ha ha. I used to have several travel books in my suitcase in the early 90's. The Lonely Planet Guide to Thailand was totally shit for me. The reason, was I needed a travel guide to talk about the local attractions of each place, things to do and see. Lonely Planet (Thailand version) was very poor at that. It had transport, how to get to and from a province or Town, advertised local Restaurants, and mentioned Hotels where you could stay.

These things were all incredibly boring for me. Fortunately some other Travel Guides (translated to English) like Fodor, and others were better.

I relied on a buddy, who by coincidence was on same flight to Thailand as me. He showed me The Thermae, The Grace, Soi Cowboy, a Soapy or two (Darling, Thermae Soapy), Chawala Massage, and Pat Pong etc. (I don't think Nana Plaza had opened as yet). He had a relative with part ownership in a Cowboy bar. Years later I found Soapies like Chaopraya 2 using the Thai Business telephone book. It wasn't easy with no internet and no forums.

I had to advance my Thai speaking with girls, since very few of the hookers could speak English at all, let alone a little bit. Its not like they had high education. No messaging with girls was possible. Had to ring them and actually talk (weak Thai). Hard to have advanced conversations with girls? No problem for me. Sex does not need a lot of useless banter. I did not get a girl for purpose of having an argument or conversation.
They might jabber on in Thai and me understanding weakly. No big deal.
Most confusing of all was a Thermae girl that yacked away in Thai but with English pronouns substituted ( I, You, etc.). Hard to follow a mix of English and Thai at speed. I did not care because she was a great fuck and had magnificent tits. She stayed all night for about 4 nights running till she had enough to go back to the province. Never heard from her again (of course she had no mobile), and possibly she had a BF or husband back in the province a but as yet no baby. She would not divulge exactly which clothing shop she worked at in Silom. Feared I might stalk her perhaps. She was very impressive, maybe a bit too flamboyant, for me used to shitty girls back home. 2 fucks per LT for maybe about 500 Baht (I can't be sure now but I think that was the going rate). Certainly was for bar girls LT. Possible I tipped a bit extra to try to be sure she would want to keep repeating.

You would have to be crazy to sleep alone in those days at 500 Baht for a girl all night (less than the low standard Hotel room), and wanking was absolutely out of the question. Where is my time machine please? I would certainly like to repeat the old days. Don't know if they BJ shops those days, but could certainly get a BJ at many hairdresser shops, or Oilies I guess. There were BJ bars.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;2364760]Ha ha. I used to have several travel books in my suitcase in the early 90's. The Lonely Planet Guide to Thailand was totally shit for me. The reason, was I needed a travel guide to talk about the local attractions of each place, things to do and see. Lonely Planet (Thailand version) was very poor at that. It had transport, how to get to and from a province or Town, advertised local Restaurants, and mentioned Hotels where you could stay.

These things were all incredibly boring for me. Fortunately some other Travel Guides (translated to English) like Fodor, and others were better..[/QUOTE]There were ads in girly magazines of the day for books and videos on the subject of finding and meeting Asian girls in their native countries and cities. I bought several in the day, including info on Thailand in general, Bangkok and Pattaya specifically, Manila, Angeles City, yes, even Indonesia/Jakarta, also The Girls of The Philippines, The Girls of Thailand, The Girls of Vietnam, The Girls of Cambodia, etc.

The hotel and bar info was not much more detailed than what you'd find in The Lonely Planet or Fodor's Guides. But they included lots of photos or video clips of the girls. And many of them were not really the one's you'd find on the ground. LOL. But I should say a couple of the highlighted beauties in The Philippines/Angeles City videos, which I bought after my first trips there, were indeed girls I had already been with and enjoyed thoroughly. So those were the real deal.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;2364757]Yes this one I agree with. There are those that say the standard of bargirls declined, yet I challenge to bring out their photos of 20 to 30 years ago and show us the "stunners". In reality there were not so many actually stunning, perhaps young with a good body. That somehow got defined as pretty, when for me it is not the same thing at all. Many posters even say they don't care about what the girl's face looks like.
...[/QUOTE]Well, I do believe youth and a good body does go a long way to qualifying as "doable", if not more than "doable" for me. And I suspect for most others. Nature has certainly designed it to be so. On the face issue, a very young face can also win out over an older face in that most young faces have not grown into the problems that will show up later with regard to noses, chins, foreheads, cheekbones, eyes, skin tone, etc. Take a look at a photograph of your young girl's mom's face or even her older sister's face to see what you are dodging by getting in there sooner rather than later.

I also feel the younger age of P4P girl options in the past is a factor in our memory of how much "hotter" they were in those days. Maybe that does not show up in old photographs, as is the case with many things. But it does show up in person. That is something that has changed a lot since my first trips here 2-3 decades ago. In those days, I remember accepting an offer from your usual street tout with a color photo brochure of girls behind glass at a soapy, no different than what we see in those touts' hands today. But when I got there, the papasan invited me into another room and brought out a line up of different girls to choose from. Let's just say that line up of girls seemed much, much younger than any girls I have seen working in any go-go bars, shops or walking on the street over the past several years. And it was common to see girls looking that young sitting outside Happy Ending massage shops too. Not anymore. There is a very different mindset and level of acceptability for those kind of things today.

I would not be surprised if the average and median age of working girls in today's Bangkok and Pattaya bars, clubs and shops are not 5-10 years older than they were 25-30 years ago. And at that stage, just 3-4 years can make a big difference in their body, face, overall sexual chemistry and attractiveness for the typical human male.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2364752]Ah, yes, that is another negative impact on P4P. But maybe not a lot. I am not so sure many of the internet-only, no-sex honeys making a killing with love sick puppies on the internet today would instead be shuffling around naked on a go-go bar stage in hopes of getting barfined for sex with strangers even if the internet didn't exist anyway. Much like younger, hotter, no-barfine/no-sex Coyotes standing outside the bars hustling lady drink suckers. I honestly doubt many of those would be working inside the bar, on the stage and under the usual terms even if there was not such a career as "Lady Drink Only Coyote Scammer."

I don't recall the hottest girls in the city working in the bars available for barfining even decades ago. And I have not seen photos of "Golden Age" go-go girls looking all that much better than the ones working in the bars and available for barfine and sex today.

However, that option as a part time job for supplemental income can give regular P4P girls an excuse to give crappy service without as much risk of falling short of rent and food money. Which relates to my pet peeve about how and why service levels have declined; because low demand customers have allowed it to decline, even encouraged it to decline.[/QUOTE]If your memory fails you, you could always look at the porn filmed with Thai prostitutes from 2000-2010. Compare the looks, and especially the body size and fitness, with the women you see at the go go bars and massage parlors today. Tell me about the difference.

Years ago before everyone was on the internet there were no coyotes. Rice farmers sent their daughters down to the big cities to work. The customers expected attractive women who could blow, ride, and be friendly while doing it all.

Nowadays Poo can fire up her Oppo phone and fish 10000 Baht out of Ander in Denmark without even crawling out of her bed. Then she can give half to her 45 year old dad who is "too old" to work. He'll take that over to buy some beer and white lightning. She'll take her half to party with her heavily pierced and tattooed boyfriend Somchai, and maybe stop off to get a giant "fuck me" inked across her lower back when they're through. Of course she'll meet old Ander some day in the future, when he gets more customers in his Uber car and finally moves out of his mom's flat and migrates to the third world.

Things ain't what they used to be!

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2364782]Well, I do believe youth and a good body does go a long way to qualifying as "doable", if not more than "doable" for me. And I suspect for most others. Nature has certainly designed it to be so. On the face issue, a very young face can also win out over an older face in that most young faces have not grown into the problems that will show up later with regard to noses, chins, foreheads, cheekbones, eyes, skin tone, etc. Take a look at a photograph of your young girl's mom's face or even her older sister's face to see what you are dodging by getting in there sooner rather than later.

I also feel the younger age of P4P girl options in the past is a factor in our memory of how much "hotter" they were in those days. Maybe that does not show up in old photographs, as is the case with many things. But it does show up in person. That is something that has changed a lot since my first trips here 2-3 decades ago. In those days, I remember accepting an offer from your usual street tout with a color photo brochure of girls behind glass at a soapy, no different than what we see in those touts' hands today. But when I got there, the papasan invited me into another room and brought out a line up of different girls to choose from. Let's just say that line up of girls seemed much, much younger than any girls I have seen working in any go-go bars, shops or walking on the street over the past several years. And it was common to see girls looking that young sitting outside Happy Ending massage shops too. Not anymore. There is a very different mindset and level of acceptability for those kind of things today.

I would not be surprised if the average and median age of working girls in today's Bangkok and Pattaya bars, clubs and shops are not 5-10 years older than they were 25-30 years ago. And at that stage, just 3-4 years can make a big difference in their body, face, overall sexual chemistry and attractiveness for the typical human male.[/QUOTE]The reason the ladies look 10 years old today is that you're looking at the same women who were working 10 years ago! The new hot women with sexy baby free bodies are on the internet, milking losers for "sugar", or in best case scenario, fucking Thais and discerning Japanese punters in the Kapoo clubs, at least until some sucker walks in and falls in love, then supports them via PayPal and Western Union from home for no particular reason other than his own ineptitude and lack of self-esteem and backbone.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;2364757]Stunning hookers have always been scarce[/QUOTE]Ever heard of a place called Globe?

[QUOTE=RickRock;2364789]If your memory fails you, you could always look at the porn filmed with Thai prostitutes from 2000-2010. Compare the looks, and especially the body size and fitness, with the women you see at the go go bars and massage parlors today. Tell me about the difference.

...[/QUOTE]I have no doubt porn filmmakers could round up some Thai prostitutes to star in their videos today that would look just as good as they did back in 2000-2010. Assuming they are of a similar age, in reference to my post just before this one.

I don't think there are porn clips from those days where the filmmakers bought out an entire go-go bar of girls and had them all engaged in hardcore porn actress behavior, did they? I'd love to see a sample of that.

[QUOTE=RickRock;2364792]The reason the ladies look 10 years old today is that you're looking at the same women who were working 10 years ago! The new hot women with sexy baby free bodies are on the internet, milking losers for "sugar", or in best case scenario, fucking Thais and discerning Japanese punters in the Kapoo clubs, at least until some sucker walks in and falls in love, then supports them via PayPal and Western Union from home for no particular reason other than his own ineptitude and lack of self-esteem and backbone.[/QUOTE]No, I think the reason the girls I see in the bars and shops today look 5-10 years older (average and median age, that is) than many of them did 25-30 years ago is because if they looked as young as before the bar and shop would be busted, closed down for 2-3 months, the papasans and mamasans thrown in jail. Now, maybe that is the age of the internet girls suckering their overseas sponsors. Maybe that is the age of the girls in the Japanese clubs and shops. I don't know.

[QUOTE=VivaMattyVegas;2364480]That's interesting that you bring up the Internet, because I'd assume (yes, probably incorrectly) that the Internet would've made things better because.

1) Sites like Smooci have a ratings system, plus it's transparent in it's pricing.

2) Don't these women know we can just rub one out and not have to deal with the drama?[/QUOTE]Smooci rating system is not efficient and a lot of the reviews are clearly fake, so there is not much transparency.

Most of the guys cannot get away of the drama once they've been hooked emotionally so their drama keeps working even better than before.