American Politics

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2607075]I mean, once again, you can comment any way you want, but if you say a stupid thing that's universally known to be untrue (like, I don't know, that condoms do not protect against a VD or that Covid vaccines do not protect against the infection), you might sound like an idiot. Crackpot even.

Insisting that the vaccine doesn't prevent the transmissions AT ALL is absolute lunacy.[/QUOTE]Xpartan,

You really, really need to know the difference between popular and correct. Is it popular to say condoms prevent STDs? Hell yeah. Is it correct? Fuck no. [URL]https://www.guttmacher.org/journals/psrh/2001/09/nih-condom-report-glass-90-full[/URL].

Adequate data are available to conclude that consistent and correct condom use prevents unintended pregnancies, HIV infection and gonorrhea in men. Evidence that condom use prevents the other six STIs reviewed by the panel is insufficient.

Before you get your panties in a bunch about HIV, that is for homosexual / anal sex. For heterosexual and oral sex, rates of HIV transmission are so low you could never prove condoms work.

And gonorrhea can be prevented / treated with one pill.

And why haven't you heard about this huge study done by the NIH? Or are you going to lie now and say you have?

Is it popular to say the vaccine works to reduce Covid? Yes. Does it? No, not delta.

The study you linked about % effectiveness was when the alpha variant of Covid was predominant. The vaccines worked to prevent that, but it does not prevent transmission with delta.

[URL]https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/30/health/breakthrough-infection-masks-cdc-provincetown-study/index.html[/URL]

A new study shows the Delta Covid-19 variant produced similar amounts of virus in vaccinated and unvaccinated people if they get infected -- illustrating a key motivation behind the federal guidance that now recommends most fully vaccinated Americans wear masks indoors.

"High viral loads suggest an increased risk of transmission and raised concern that, unlike with other variants, vaccinated people infected with Delta can transmit the virus," Dr. Rochelle Walensky said.

The researchers found evidence that viral loads were similar among 127 fully vaccinated people and 84 others who were unvaccinated, partially vaccinated or whose vaccination status was unknown. Viral load is a proxy for how likely someone might be to transmit the virus to others.

Let me guess. You knew about this too.

That leaves this statement, "Experts say that vaccination makes it less likely that you'll catch Covid-19 in the first place."

If that were true, the UK, Israel, and USA would not have the highest cases per capita in the world. The data does not support that claim, and the notion that there are more cases in those countries because of testing is also not supported by the data.

People like you make judgments and marry them. You are unable to shift when data shows what you are married to turns out to be wrong.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2607050]As for your study in household contacts, that is one I am skeptical of and ask why you did not link it? There has to be so many variables that have to be accounted for. Among my questions is what variant was predominant during this time period. How was antibody status accounted for prior to infection?

The vaccine did seem to be effective with stopping transmission of the alpha variant, but it does not seem to work with delta, and who the hell knows how well it will work with the next one?

I am extremely skeptical when it comes to the CDC on politically charged issues. Here is what they wrote "Fully vaccinated people with Delta variant breakthrough infections can spread the virus to others. However, vaccinated people appear to spread the virus for a shorter time. "

You do not mandate when you have the phrase appear to. You let people make their own decisions.

The CDC is been pushing vaccination like crazy, and I do not expect them to back down from their proclamations as the vaccine loses its luster. So IMO this push for vaccination is as much the CDC not losing face as it is for preventing disease.

It is funny in that I have published on this website a regimen of antivirals and antibiotics that I have taken when I go bare. I got the response I expected from the American government loving. "You cannot do that. Antibiotics are a gift from God, and you are wasting them!" If I asked the group here, which method do you use to prevent herpes, condoms or Valtrex? I am certain that condoms would win or maybe #1 would be "Uh, What is Valtrex?

And why can you get Valtrex over the counter in Colombia and Mexico and not in the USA? My take on that is the CDC is more interested in government control than in preventing the spread of disease. The notion that you are "wasting a treatment" when it is available in other countries is batshit crazy. The CDC must think herpes cannot spread over a country's borders.

We have treatments that are 100% effective for transmissible diseases (Valtrex is not 100% effective against herpes transmission though) and we do not mandate treatment for them. The fact that you douches want to mandate for Covid is absolutely fucking insane.[/QUOTE]Thanks, Captain Obvious. Yes, COVID is here to stay. But why? The US has had enough vaccine for the past 6 months to vaccinate every adult. But only 50-some-odd percent of the population has been vaccinated. And the anti-vaxxers, the anti-maskers, the science deniers and rightwingnut media are the biggest cause of that. That's why COVID is still killing thousands every day.

If someone doesn't want to get vaccinated, fine. But that decision is a choice and [B]choices have consequences[/B].

Instead of a vaccine mandate, perhaps the government should mandate that every unvaccinated person, every anti-vaxxer, every anti-masker, every science denier and all of the rightwingnut media work for 30 days in a COVID ward. Without PPE, of course, because natural COVID immunity is so much better than a vaccine and hell, COVID only has a. 02% death rate anyway. Of course, all those people will be refused medical treatment because COVID isn't that serious and not getting vaccinated was a choice and [B]choices have consequences[/B].

[B]"educating yourself on what works to actually prevent getting the disease.[/B]" And, what, pray tell is that? It isn't ivermectin. It isn't hydroxychloroquine. It isn't bleach martinis and it isn't shoving a lightbulb up your ass. What actually [B]works[/B] to [B]actually prevent COVID[/B] are the things that Republicans are against (physical or social distancing, quarantining, ventilation of indoor spaces, covering coughs and sneezes, hand washing, and keeping unwashed hands away from the face. The use of face masks or coverings has been recommended in public settings to minimize the risk of transmissions.)

[QUOTE=PVMonger;2606990]You realize, right, that many MAGAts (like the OP) believe that the vaccine contains microchips. Many MAGAts also believe that the vaccine contains magnets.[/QUOTE]You evidently fail to realize that not everyone who chooses to not take an unproven vaccine is a 'MAGA'.

Meanwhile, with gay genes on your mind, maybe the MAGA people will have a vaccination to cure you. (You can decide if that's sarcasm.)

[QUOTE=Golfinho;2607267]You evidently fail to realize that not everyone who chooses to not take an unproven vaccine...[/QUOTE]More than a billion doses of mRNA Covid vaccines have been administered. The safety and efficacy of the vaccines have been proven beyond any possibility for error. The theory and mechanism of how these vaccines work is better understood than the theory of gravitation. Simply put, the vaccines are proven to be safe and effective.

[QUOTE=JohnClayton;2607301]More than a billion doses of mRNA Covid vaccines have been administered. The safety and efficacy of the vaccines have been proven beyond any possibility for error. The theory and mechanism of how these vaccines work is better understood than the theory of gravitation. Simply put, the vaccines are proven to be safe and effective.[/QUOTE]Also the vaccine is proven to reduce the odds of Covid hospitalization and death to near zero.

[QUOTE=JohnClayton;2607301]More than a billion doses of mRNA Covid vaccines have been administered. The safety and efficacy of the vaccines have been proven beyond any possibility for error. The theory and mechanism of how these vaccines work is better understood than the theory of gravitation. Simply put, the vaccines are proven to be safe and effective.[/QUOTE]Then you've got nothing to worry about from the unvaccinated. Mind your own business and party on.

[QUOTE=Golfinho;2607267]You evidently fail to realize that not everyone who chooses to not take an unproven vaccine is a 'MAGA'.

Meanwhile, with gay genes on your mind, maybe the MAGA people will have a vaccination to cure you. (You can decide if that's sarcasm.)[/QUOTE][B]"not everyone who chooses to not take an unproven vaccine is a 'MAGA".[/B] Maybe, however: "The vaccination rate among White evangelical Protestants continues to lag behind those of other major religious groups: 57% of White evangelicals say they have received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine, compared with 73% of White Protestants who are not evangelicals, 75% of religiously unaffiliated adults and 82% of Catholics," reported Pew. And show me a white evangelical who isn't a MAGAt. [URL]https://www.au.org/blogs/christian-nationalists-reality?fbclid=IwAR3NrhSlbVTQDiJhu__NiEJLByFHa6_ysApQjXCWVWaV6b9FDtZcWY0eCTw[/URL].

I guess it really is true that scientists hid the "genius gene" in the vaccine, considering how many of the unvaccinated aren't.

[QUOTE=PVMonger;2607255]Instead of a vaccine mandate, perhaps the government should mandate that every unvaccinated person, every anti-vaxxer, every anti-masker, every science denier and all of the rightwingnut media work for 30 days in a COVID ward. Without PPE, of course, because natural COVID immunity is so much better than a vaccine and hell, COVID only has a. 02% death rate anyway. Of course, all those people will be refused medical treatment because COVID isn't that serious and not getting vaccinated was a choice[/QUOTE]Works for me.

[QUOTE=PVMonger;2607255][B]"educating yourself on what works to actually prevent getting the disease.[/B]" And, what, pray tell is that? It isn't ivermectin. It isn't hydroxychloroquine. It isn't bleach martinis and it isn't shoving a lightbulb up your ass.[/QUOTE]Let's volunteer Elvis to confirm.

And Golfino. Before you blast my post.

I was being sarcastic, FYI.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2607162]Xpartan,

You really, really need to know the difference between popular and correct. Is it popular to say condoms prevent STDs? Hell yeah. Is it correct? Fuck no. [URL]https://www.guttmacher.org/journals/psrh/2001/09/nih-condom-report-glass-90-full[/URL].

Adequate data are available to conclude that consistent and correct condom use prevents unintended pregnancies, HIV infection and gonorrhea in men. Evidence that condom use prevents the other six STIs reviewed by the panel is insufficient.

Before you get your panties in a bunch about HIV, that is for homosexual / anal sex. For heterosexual and oral sex, rates of HIV transmission are so low you could never prove condoms work.

And gonorrhea can be prevented / treated with one pill.

And why haven't you heard about this huge study done by the NIH? Or are you going to lie now and say you have?

Is it popular to say the vaccine works to reduce Covid? Yes. Does it? No, not delta.

The study you linked about % effectiveness was when the alpha variant of Covid was predominant. The vaccines worked to prevent that, but it does not prevent transmission with delta.

[URL]https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/30/health/breakthrough-infection-masks-cdc-provincetown-study/index.html[/URL]

A new study shows the Delta Covid-19 variant produced similar amounts of virus in vaccinated and unvaccinated people if they get infected -- illustrating a key motivation behind the federal guidance that now recommends most fully vaccinated Americans wear masks indoors...[/QUOTE]Aren't you the guy who continues to insist that the only people who die from COVID are old people with comorbidities? If so, then you can't have things both ways. Either you talk about only the Delta variant or not. Don't berate someone else for using an older study and cry "but not for delta."

As to your contention that viral loads tell the whole story, "In one study from Singapore, researchers found that viral loads reached high levels in vaccinated people but dropped much faster than in those who were unvaccinated". But the quote above comes from an MIT publication, and everybody knows that MIT is far less reliable than Fucker Carlson. [URL]https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/08/09/1031292/questions-delta-variant-contagious-tranmission-vaccination/[/URL].

And, as I already posted, breakthrough infections in vaccinated people occur. 02% of the time.

If you knew the difference between the MAGAt-popular and the correct, you'd be vaccinated because you gave a dam about those around you. But you don't and you don't.

[QUOTE=PVMonger;2607255] Of course, all those people will be refused medical treatment because COVID isn't that serious and not getting vaccinated was a choice and [B]choices have consequences[/B].
[/QUOTE]And of course for consistency, we must also refuse fat people medical treatment for diabetes, heart and joint conditions; and smokers for respiratory problems; and homosexuals for HIV, because overeating / smoking / sodomy was a choice and choices have consequences.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2607162]Xpartan,

You really, really need to know the difference between popular and correct. Is it popular to say condoms prevent STDs? Hell yeah. Is it correct? Fuck no. [URL]https://www.guttmacher.org/journals/psrh/2001/09/nih-condom-report-glass-90-full[/URL].

Adequate data are available to conclude that consistent and correct condom use prevents unintended pregnancies, HIV infection and gonorrhea in men. Evidence that condom use prevents the other six STIs reviewed by the panel is insufficient.

Before you get your panties in a bunch about HIV, that is for homosexual / anal sex. For heterosexual and oral sex, rates of HIV transmission are so low you could never prove condoms work.

And gonorrhea can be prevented / treated with one pill.

And why haven't you heard about this huge study done by the NIH? Or are you going to lie now and say you have?

Is it popular to say the vaccine works to reduce Covid? Yes. Does it? No, not delta.

The study you linked about % effectiveness was when the alpha variant of Covid was predominant. The vaccines worked to prevent that, but it does not prevent transmission with delta.[/QUOTE]Excellent post.

I would only contest the final paragraph. People like him and the rest of the dem douches don't make judgments. They just follow, blindly and lemming-like, whatever the fake news / Big Tech is telling them this week, regardless even of how contradictory it is to what they were saying last week.

[QUOTE=JohnClayton;2607301]More than a billion doses of mRNA Covid vaccines have been administered. The safety and efficacy of the vaccines have been proven beyond any possibility for error. The theory and mechanism of how these vaccines work is better understood than the theory of gravitation. Simply put, the vaccines are proven to be safe and effective.[/QUOTE]Maybe you're getting a different vaccine over there in Leningrad, but here in America the VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Effects Reporting System) contradicts your false statement.

[URL]https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/vaers-cdc-data-injuries-deaths-covid-vaccine/[/URL] "Data released today show that between Dec. 14,2020 and July 30,2021, a total of 545,338 total adverse events were reported to VAERS, including 12,366 deaths — an increase of 426 over the previous week. There were 70,105 reports of serious injuries, including deaths, during the same time period".

Only a small fraction of injuries are actually reported to VAERS. Most are simply ignored or swept under the rug.

As for "effective", we were sold these vaccines as the end of the virus. In fact, they don't work. Double jabbed people are still getting covid, still getting sick, still passing it on. The injections probably reduce the harshness of the virus, but that is not what we were told. We were told that vaccinated people would be invulnerable, like with measles, mumps, rubella, smallpox etc.

Once again, Fauci lied.

[QUOTE=ScatManDoo;2607132]I believe your conclusion is incorrect.

If the vaccine slows the rate of infection, then it is effective and beneficial (and worthwhile).

There is no criterion that success can only be achieved by total eradication.

Less deaths and less serious disease is desirable compared to more deaths and more serious disease.

I agree that we are likely going to be living with Covid for quite a while. While that's happening I favor having less deaths with great immunization coverage rather than choosing more deaths for ourselves because some folks try to be selfish freeloaders in the name of "Freedom."[/QUOTE]Covid is not the Walking Dead. It is not a society-destroying virus. The survival rate is 99.9%, and it barely affects healthy people under 60, who constitute the vast majority of the workforce.

If the vaccine did what Fauci and the other liars originally told us. Ie give total lifelong immunity from the disease, as is the case with the vaccines for measles, mumps, rubella, smallpox, Hep be, etc. They would have a stronger case: they could say "taking this vaccine will eradicate the disease forever".

But that is not the case. They lied. The vaccine doesn't work. See Oscar De La Hoya, who recently had to call off his boxing comeback because he contracted covid. After being double-vaccinated.

At best, the vaccine somewhat alleviates symptoms. It does not and will not prevent infection, or spreading, nor will it eradicate the disease. It does very little.

On the negative side, as we have seen from over half a million VAERS reports in less than a year, it does quite a lot.

For people in vulnerable groups (elderly, obese, people with severe pre-existing conditions) it is probably worth taking the vaccine. But for healthy people under 50, the likelihood of severe negative reaction to the vax is the same or more than the likelihood of severe negative reaction to covid. Both very low.

We cannot eradicate covid. It will always be with us. The "vaccine" option is there for people who wish to probably ameliorate their symptoms if and when they get it. But it does not come near to the level of justifying the destruction of constitutional freedoms and bodily autonomy of American citizens.

If you have chosen to take the vaccine, your symptoms will probably be less if you catch it. Good for you. But you will not eradicate the disease. Why therefore are you concerned about the personal medical choices and bodily autonomy of others?

[QUOTE=ScatManDoo;2607095]the anti-science party.[/QUOTE]Would that be the party that believes that there is no such thing as a "woman" (only a "menstruating person" or "birthing person" That there are no average differences whatsoever between ethnic groups, NBA and advanced math classes be damned? And told us twenty years ago that the country would be underwater by now? And are telling us now that the planet will be gone in 10 years?

That anti-science party?

[QUOTE=ChrisP;2607390]And of course for consistency, we must also refuse fat people medical treatment for diabetes, heart and joint conditions; and smokers for respiratory problems; and homosexuals for HIV, because overeating / smoking / sodomy was a choice and choices have consequences.[/QUOTE]When the recalcitrant third of our country cause the 5th, and deadliest outbreak (in the conservative south) during winter flu season coming up.

I am sure that's how they will be forced to triage due to low capacities in those little country hospitals.