Lisbon

[QUOTE=JohnD00;2820067]From below. I think it's the first time I've seen 'SA' being mentioned. Can anyone help to provide more info on what 'SA' stands for?

Thanks again.[/QUOTE]Seeking Arrangement, the sugar baby dating site.

This is the best route to go if you think you would enjoy a more open, date format where you go out, enjoy some company and have a near-guaranteed hook-up. Selection also works (or can work) as if you were on a normal dating app -- you can feel out prospective "sugar babies" by messaging or even facetime. They often prefer it. The caveats are:

1) She does reserve the option of backing out. It's uncommon and she doesn't get paid, but it does happen. The flip side is you can back out freely too. This isn't a professional thing. It's amateur hour.

2) Because it's amateur hour, they aren't going to take requests unless it's something they genuinely want to do (A-level, etc.).

3) Since most of these women have day jobs and / or kids, their schedule isn't as open. Availability is mostly at night and you'll need to plan things like on a date. Spur of the moment stuff is less possible. This is where I run into problems, because I am usually available during the daytime and rarely know when until the day before or day of. Like I wrote, I would prefer the SA route under different circumstances. Mine don't work well for it.

You, Sir, have my recognition.

Thanks for the extensive explanation you've given. I couldn't ask for anything better.

I've now had a look at SA. And yes following your comments, given that I'll be in Lisbon for only a few days, it might not make sense for me to fork out the 300 or so Euros for a one time subs + then trying to fish out someone; I'm not a looker appearance wise, so I might not end up lucky after all.

So yea, basically. I'll stick to the reviews you good guys have generously provided throughout this forum.

And I'll be back for sure to give my 2 cents on how it went.

Once again, Mongerer88, thanks for that thorough explanation. I'm sure it'll be helpful to many others reading through.

Peace.

[QUOTE=Mongerer88;2820178]It stands for Seeking Arrangement. You can read the Seeking Arrangement forum here on ISG to more fully grasp the concepts.

You need to pay a fee and join Seeking Arrangement in order to view profiles. You will then be able to converse with the ladies. Any discussion of sex should be done outside of the Seeking Arrangement messaging system. Incredibly and probably idiotically, SA is USA Based and they need to avoid any connection with sex for money.

In theory, you are going on a date when using SA. Ideally, that date will involve a meal, companionship and sex.

Sometimes sex does not occur. That makes the times and relationships in which good sex does occur more valuable. If you ever played a game of chance at a county or state fair, you can appreciate the concept. Can't value winners without you and the crowd seeing some losers.

Let me be a skeptic when it comes to Lisbon and SA with respect to a short-term visitor.

In theory, according to the SA proponents, the women are not hookers. You will hear this most often from guys frequenting countries, particularly Mexico, where there exist a multitude of lower-end, less-educated, sex workers who would simply be incapable of maintaining a conversation in English with a traveler from the first world. SA provides a mechanism for "upper-end" sex workers to have relationships that are more like dating with wealthier tourists, many of whom spend a significant length of time there. Another country in which SA is popular is the United States. It is very difficult administratively for a lady to do independent escorting in the USA There are plenty to choose from, but due to the administrative hassles such as screening, USA Independent escorts charge a lot. USA Law enforcement has taken a complete hands-off approach to SA. So it has provided a mechanism for many ladies to effectively do sex work without concerns regarding law enforcement. Sex work is frowned upon throughout the world, so the dining, conversing, and potential for a quasi-relationship with a "regular" seems to provide some psychological benefit of her not "feeling like a hooker", and it seems that not "feeling like a John" does likewise for many guys.

Now, let's cut to the chase in Lisbon for a tourist. You need to ask yourself if you are going to be there long enough to not be emotionally devastated if you are the unlucky player at the carnival game who does not when the stuffed animal prize. In other words, what if you take her for a nice meal, and she just says thanks and nothing else happens? Not terribly likely, but it could occur.

You need to ask yourself if you value the time and companionship that occurs other than sex. If so, that is great, but also ask yourself if you would prefer the certainty of booking a well-reviewed escort who is known to speak English for a long enough period of time to include a meal and perhaps some tourism. There are an endless number of them. Several EP ladies, and independents such as Carolina Belmont and Rebeca Diniz are good candidates also.

You will never convince me that many of the ladies on SA in Lisbon are not also working as escorts. One humorous post on the local board regarding the Lisbon dinner clubs involved a local John figuring out which ladies in their nice evening dresses worked as incall escorts during the day offering 30 minute sessions.

It is likely the same with SA. Sure there are women on Lisbon SA that do not work as escorts, but there are some who do. Many of us had a favorite Montreal escort who was a true stunner and a chameleon. She worked at an escort service during the day, often as an independent some evenings, did webcam most nights, and juggled twelve Sugar Daddies, several of whom thought she was exclusive with them. I am not sure she really intended for her customers to repeat that when doing reviews on the local Montreal board. She used more names than that chick we all studied about in high school psychology class, Sybil. Every market has plenty of chameleon escorts, including Lisbon. When doing SA they will not tell you they work as escorts. They will do the innocent little girl routine.

Lisbon doesn't have a poverty driven caste system for its sex workers like Mexico does. It isn't that difficult to find an English speaking escort to converse with for an hour or two in your room during sex. If you want that companionship to extend beyond your room, it isn't that difficult to find ones who will do long-term sessions that would include dinner and tourism. You aren't there to find your next kept woman, and you aren't likely wealthy enough to accomplish that anyway. While Lisbon does not have the barriers to entry for sex work that the USA And France do, it does, like all countries, have some barriers to entry, so there will certainly be some non-chameleon SA ladies.

The bottom line is this. SA has provided a very easy to use mechanism for educated, often younger, ladies to do sex work that does not feel to them like sex work. If you go through the hassles of communicating with them, and accept the risk of a disappointment occurring, you might snag a great evening with a college-aged lady who might not have otherwise done escorting. In my personal opinion, for Lisbon, it is not worth the effort and possibility of disappointment, compared to booking a reviewed and recommended escort for whatever time and activities you want. But that is just my opinion, and plenty of SA proponents would disagree. But that determination is still country specific. And Portugal is simply different than Mexico, the United States and France, and any other country you can think of.[/QUOTE]

Thanks to you also, ExExpatriate, for providing an explanation when requested. And to the many advice you've given out through this forum. Been reading a lot of your posts for the past month.

As mentioned in the other reply. I'll be sticking to the reports you all lot have been providing on already tried and tested ladies out there.

Cheers.

[QUOTE=ExExpatriate;2820270]Seeking Arrangement, the sugar baby dating site.

This is the best route to go if you think you would enjoy a more open, date format where you go out, enjoy some company and have a near-guaranteed hook-up. Selection also works (or can work) as if you were on a normal dating app -- you can feel out prospective "sugar babies" by messaging or even facetime. They often prefer it. The caveats are:

1) She does reserve the option of backing out. It's uncommon and she doesn't get paid, but it does happen. The flip side is you can back out freely too. This isn't a professional thing. It's amateur hour.

2) Because it's amateur hour, they aren't going to take requests unless it's something they genuinely want to do (A-level, etc.).

3) Since most of these women have day jobs and / or kids, their schedule isn't as open. Availability is mostly at night and you'll need to plan things like on a date. Spur of the moment stuff is less possible. This is where I run into problems, because I am usually available during the daytime and rarely know when until the day before or day of. Like I wrote, I would prefer the SA route under different circumstances. Mine don't work well for it.[/QUOTE]

Yes, for bookings / meets of 1-2 hours, many people may consider that they want the certainty of a well-reviewed escort. However, I can see people rolling the SA dice if they want outcall bookings of several hours or overnights; the EP rate for overnights is 1200 whereas people are reporting SA overnights at 250 - that is quite a difference! I say outcall bookings because the escort incall rates for overnights appear to be far less than 1200, making SA less financially beneficial.

[QUOTE=Mongerer88;2820178]It stands for Seeking Arrangement.

You need to ask yourself if you value the time and companionship that occurs other than sex. If so, that is great, but also ask yourself if you would prefer the certainty of booking a well-reviewed escort who is known to speak English for a long enough period of time to include a meal and perhaps some tourism.

If you go through the hassles of communicating with them, and accept the risk of a disappointment occurring, you might snag a great evening with a college-aged lady who might not have otherwise done escorting. In my personal opinion, for Lisbon, it is not worth the effort and possibility of disappointment, compared to booking a reviewed and recommended escort for whatever time and activities you want. [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Mongerer88;2820178]

You need to ask yourself if you value the time and companionship that occurs other than sex. If so, that is great, but also ask yourself if you would prefer the certainty of booking a well-reviewed escort who is known to speak English for a long enough period of time to include a meal and perhaps some tourism. There are an endless number of them. Several EP ladies, and independents such as Carolina Belmont and Rebeca Diniz are good candidates also.

You will never convince me that many of the ladies on SA in Lisbon are not also working as escorts. One humorous post on the local board regarding the Lisbon dinner clubs involved a local John figuring out which ladies in their nice evening dresses worked as incall escorts during the day offering 30 minute sessions.

[/QUOTE]Good essay, Mongerer. I'll just add / confirm a couple of things.

Hiring and outcall escort for a date is expensive. One can and should neogitate, but lets say you were trying this with Carolina Belmont, and asked for four hours. She would start by asking for 800 euros. (because she's been trying to apply a tourist tax lately). Compare that against 250-300 flat going rate for SA. The ladies negotiate over these longer periods, but that is what you'd most likely be climbing her down from.

So for the dating style format, the only guy who should call someone like Carolina is one who is already staying at the Four Seasons. Ha!

I can confirm that many -- but certainly not most -- girls on SA are either current or former escorts. When I gave it a try a few years ago, I saw several familiar photos and faces. Most, however, were "retired. " They weren't advertising as escorts or massagistas on the regular advertising sites anymore. I suppose you could say they were still escorting, via SA, but infrequently and with the liberty of screening and declining clients.

I mentioned my semi-retired lady? She is exactly the type who might have switched to SA for a time... except she didn't need to. She had some old clients who could see her during her former incall hours, she genuinely liked them, and she treated it in a way that didn't feel like the job anymore. So she would make some time from her day job for it.

I firmly agree about the time angle. It's why I don't pursue SA. One would need to be in Lisbon for at least several days and have full command over their time to make good use of the SA format.

Been looking around further. And apart from SA. I found there's another sugardaddy like app. SB -Secret Benefits- is that used in Portugal also? Or any others like SA?

Of course apart from Tinder and OKCupid.

I will be having nearly 3 full days by myself with 3 days busy with work during the day with free evenings. Hopefully will be able to have some nice time.

Cheers all.

[QUOTE=ExExpatriate;2820876]Good essay, Mongerer. I'll just add / confirm a couple of things.

Hiring and outcall escort for a date is expensive. One can and should neogitate, but lets say you were trying this with Carolina Belmont, and asked for four hours. She would start by asking for 800 euros. (because she's been trying to apply a tourist tax lately). Compare that against 250-300 flat going rate for SA. The ladies negotiate over these longer periods, but that is what you'd most likely be climbing her down from.

So for the dating style format, the only guy who should call someone like Carolina is one who is already staying at the Four Seasons. Ha!

I can confirm that many -- but certainly not most -- girls on SA are either current or former escorts. When I gave it a try a few years ago, I saw several familiar photos and faces. Most, however, were "retired. " They weren't advertising as escorts or massagistas on the regular advertising sites anymore. I suppose you could say they were still escorting, via SA, but infrequently and with the liberty of screening and declining clients..[/QUOTE]

Lots of discussion and all good points. I believe Lisbon is the perfect city for SA. From my point of view, there was little financial risk. As mentioned in my previous post, I secured the company of young women for dinner and overnight stays for 250. Now, I planned on going out for dinner anyway, so all I had to bear was the additional cost for another individual. If, after dinner, she bailed, so be it. The date essentially would have cost me nothing and I had the enjoyment of a dinner companion. And, on returning to my room I could have called one of the available ladies on Apartadox or EP. Fortunately for me, all 3 dates worked out perfectly.

In other large centers where the ask is significantly larger, the risk might be amplified. However, given the relatively cheap cost associated with mongering in Lisbon, seemed like a worthwhile risk in my opinion.

P.S. As to whether the ladies I saw where escorts or former escorts. The first lady I have no idea, but I wouldn't be shocked tom learn she was a former working girl. The 2nd lady I saw, not a chance. She's a young ex-pat recently arrived in Lisbon.

Stirling.

When I tried the SA thing, I wrote many of the ladies were active or inactive escorts. Being as familiar as I am and having a long memory, I ran into at least one familiar face on every page of the SA search engine, and often more than one. Even so, it was well under half the total. 1/5 or 1/4 would be more accurate.

Within the group that were familiar from escort ads, most were inactives.

I didn't mean to imply most of the girls on SA were current or former escorts. Quite the contrary. Pros are a noticeable percentage, but not an overwhelming presence.

Thanks for additional comments Stirling.

I've seen on the other countries / locations boards that the guys were sharing the links of the SA ladies.

Don't know if that is allowed over here. But would you be willing to share the ones you got lucky with?

At 250 for overnight. It does really make it worthwhile.

As it stands. I might be going towards the mixed route of trying SA + the vetted ladies from EP already posted over here.

Cheers to all again.

[QUOTE=Stirling;2821068]Lots of discussion and all good points. I believe Lisbon is the perfect city for SA. From my point of view, there was little financial risk. As mentioned in my previous post, I secured the company of young women for dinner and overnight stays for 250. Now, I planned on going out for dinner anyway, so all I had to bear was the additional cost for another individual. If, after dinner, she bailed, so be it. The date essentially would have cost me nothing and I had the enjoyment of a dinner companion. And, on returning to my room I could have called one of the available ladies on Apartadox or EP. Fortunately for me, all 3 dates worked out perfectly.

In other large centers where the ask is significantly larger, the risk might be amplified. However, given the relatively cheap cost associated with mongering in Lisbon, seemed like a worthwhile risk in my opinion.

P.S. As to whether the ladies I saw where escorts or former escorts. The first lady I have no idea, but I wouldn't be shocked tom learn she was a former working girl. The 2nd lady I saw, not a chance. She's a young ex-pat recently arrived in Lisbon..[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=JohnD00;2821339]Thanks for additional comments Stirling.

I've seen on the other countries / locations boards that the guys were sharing the links of the SA ladies.

Don't know if that is allowed over here. But would you be willing to share the ones you got lucky with?

At 250 for overnight. It does really make it worthwhile.

As it stands. I might be going towards the mixed route of trying SA + the vetted ladies from EP already posted over here.

Cheers to all again.[/QUOTE]Hi JohnDOO, I had a quick look on SA and the profiles of the ladies I saw are currently not there. I suspect they only reactivate them when they're looking for a date.

Stirling.

[QUOTE=Koki9290;2814901]I was wandering around the area east of Martim Monz last night around 10 pm and saw no streetwalkers. Lots of guys in the streets hanging out and drinking but no action that I could discern. I'll check out Eduardo VII, Rua do Conde de Redonde and Anjos in the next couple of days because I'm staying nearby. Mansanto Forest is huge and wouldn't know where to begin.[/QUOTE]I was trying the area of Martim Moniz and Intendente three times at around 7 pm, 9:30 pm and around midnight. No WG to be seen except some very sincere drug users at a bus stop called "Socorro" / Rua the Mouraria. I walked some 100 ft down the are. Dos Cavaleiros but I started feeling unsecure and turned around.

I cannot imagine that a huge city like lisbon has nothing more than the escort scene but I did not discover it. And, in fact, I did very well with the escorts I tried, at least with Bela Soares.

Cheers mate.

Will try my luck and report back with anything.

[QUOTE=Stirling;2822202]Hi JohnDOO, I had a quick look on SA and the profiles of the ladies I saw are currently not there. I suspect they only reactivate them when they're looking for a date.

Stirling.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Stradivari;2822458]I was trying the area of Martim Moniz and Intendente three times at around 7 pm, 9:30 pm and around midnight. No WG to be seen except some very sincere drug users at a bus stop called "Socorro" / Rua the Mouraria. I walked some 100 ft down the are. Dos Cavaleiros but I started feeling unsecure and turned around.

I cannot imagine that a huge city like lisbon has nothing more than the escort scene but I did not discover it. And, in fact, I did very well with the escorts I tried, at least with Bela Soares.[/QUOTE]But that's exactly the point: because the vast majority of escorts has managed to make a living working from appartments with no need of the harsh scene of SW, this is quickly vanishing. Intendente, for instance has become a trendy cafe / restaurants spot for tourists with only the odd junkie as a souvenir of the "bad ole times".

[QUOTE=KamaLeo;2822875]But that's exactly the point: because the vast majority of escorts has managed to make a living working from appartments with no need of the harsh scene of SW, this is quickly vanishing. Intendente, for instance has become a trendy cafe / restaurants spot for tourists with only the odd junkie as a souvenir of the "bad ole times".[/QUOTE]That's bad news for the lovers of the street scene but good news for the girls, all in total a good reason to be happy. Still astonishing that it happened. What is special with Lisbon that they managed to achieve what many other large cities did not achieve? But this is going off topic now.

I would be glad to see it wither away, at least for Lisbon. I imagine it will persist in other parts of the country.

I know it was alive and well a decade ago. Although I have always disdained that sort of thing, I would cross a major SW area on my way home. It was hard to miss. I also remember seeing these SW hanging out in front of isolated back roads in different areas, places one would cross when going to the more remote beaches. So clearly the locals knew where to go look for them.

[QUOTE=KamaLeo;2822875]But that's exactly the point: because the vast majority of escorts has managed to make a living working from appartments with no need of the harsh scene of SW, this is quickly vanishing. Intendente, for instance has become a trendy cafe / restaurants spot for tourists with only the odd junkie as a souvenir of the "bad ole times".[/QUOTE]