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[QUOTE=Frannie;2043617]Just eat the icing and leave the cake.[/QUOTE]The DR novios that Old Kool says screwed them over and left them unwed mothers have already eaten the icing. Now you are groveling over paying for stale cake. LOL.
[QUOTE=Frannie;2043617]Yes, of course you can find attractive childless women too, but they have more options that may not include you.[/QUOTE]If you have money you are just as good as any other option.
Attitudes towards time differ between cultures. There is entire body of work that has looked at how different countries and cultures deal with time. These attitudes are completely different from time management. Every single one us of has specific responsibilities on how we manage our time based on the expectations of other individuals or institutions in our lives.
Wrx2005 has an absolute expectation for prompt arrival. As long as he makes the other party aware of what his personal expectations are then it's all good. If the person does not meet them then he serves up his bevy of consequences.
I on the other hand have a sliding scale on which I judge how another person uses their time. If I'm in my house chilling and don't have any time sensitive plans, I could care less if she arrives late. But if we have plans that have a specific start time, then yeah, those plans have been cancelled due to lateness on her part. I'm time rich and I can spend it how I like. And I'm not letting pussy pursuits upset me.
It's up to each individual to determine how they view lateness. How I choose to view time and how other person chooses to view time is actually irrelevant and unimportant. It says absolutely nothing about the person. Time is an arbitrary concept that only came to importance historically with the industrial revolution.
[QUOTE=OldKool;2043441]Camaro and WRX will see a broad spectrum of women. Guys on this forum are focused on P4 P girls by enlarge and occassional non pro who needs some help living.[/QUOTE]I use the concept of Cost per Orgasam (CPO) to provide a quantitative measure the economic cost across types of girls. That way you don't have to get into typing each and every one of them. Simply take the total you spend on a girl and device by the number of orgasms she give you.
Total money spent / Orgasm=Cost Per Orgasm.
It's a universal concept.
In years past, in Sosua or the DR generally, guys used to make tentative plans with chicas? For instance, a guy is walking about in Sosua, bumps into a fine chica. A brief chat ends up with him telling her he might get with her a certain time. Or for her to come by his place later. He tells her where he's staying. And like clockwork, that chica shows up at his hotel at the designated time, and might be standing around waiting for him.
Or a guy communicates with a chica before his trip. He tells her the day he's coming. Chica shows up at the airport waiting for him to come out. How many vets remember chicas showing up to a guys hotel like that? But the guy either forgot about it, or didn't think the chica would take him seriously. I'm talking about back then when these girls didn't have cell phones. And if they did it was a cheap Alcatel phone, and if high on the hog it was a BlackBerry.
Wasnt it a common thing that a guy would have to watch what he said to a chica, because that chica will show up at his place at the time he said he could see her? The chica assumed she had an appointment.
Same thing with a local taxi driver. The local taxi driver might ask the day the guy is leaving, and show up at the guys hotel hoping to get a return fare.
My point here, if my memory serves me correctly, is that enough foreigners dealing with locals experienced folks here that did care about time on a social level and a business level. A short while ago I used to sit and chill at Rockys. I called the front area The Office. Chicas would pass by all the time. I might check one out and agree to hook up with them at a certain time. But I'd tell them that right now, I'm chilling with my friends.
When I decide to get up to leave, that chica shows up on time ready to leave with me. In fact, sometimes during the course of guys sitting there, some chicas will make several passes just to make sure a guy is still there.
I think we can gather from this, that we can't conclude that locals don't generally care about time. There are always examples out there that people forget about. More than we give credit for. Why? Because enough folks don't pay much attention when people are on time or being conscientious. There's more attention given when people are late or no shows.
Another thing we might can gather, is that the use of today's technology, especially the use of the internet may have corrupted us further to a certain extent. In addition a new breed of folks with less home training than the previous generation are now on the scene. Now the moment a guy nutts and heads to take a shower, the chica has already whipped out her phone and is checking on her other clients. Trying to juggle them all.
The family, the chulos, The WU novios, the next potential client she eyeballed at New Garden restaurant, the guys she communicates with on Facebook, Whatsapp, Tagged, DC, her bi-sexual GF, her amigas that help her to score some new clients staying in a villa etc. No wonder some muggs can't be on time. Work potential overload. Too much shit going on, right at ones fingertips.
So there was a season when locals valued time a lot more, socially and in business. I just think that things have evolved for the worse, and the lack of putting people in check and making them accountable is really why lateness and not giving a fuck about time comes from. In business where deadlines are very important, folks have less of a choice, like the Caribe Tours example. But on a social level, muggs can get to do whatever the fuck they want to do, because they don't have anybody stepping up to give a fuck. It sure aint coming from their HOME TRAINING.
Collectively were cultures filled with softies. Enough men have a hard time accepting their role as men, that lead, take control , offer guidance and solutions to problems with others. Now it's. "you have to accept it" because that is the way it is, or the way they are. Fuck that!. Women today are screaming for men (by their out of control and assbackwards behavior) to take responsibility and take charge, and all we ( collectively ) find ourselves being is accommodating.
Sosua may be the one exception in the DR. The competition is thick for our dollars. When you tell a chica to meet you at your hotel she shpws up unless she found something better. The same is true for the airport pickups. You are the meal ticket in Sosua and they are hungry. Sometimes literally. I went to the room where one of my hook up was staying. there were 3 or 4 girls in a small room. No TV or kitchen cloths piled everywhere. It was depressing. When a chica comes to your room it is a huge step up in most cases.
No, it is not true and I don't remember that. At least not in Santo Domingo. And I thought we had this "Glory Days" discussion before. But hey. Someone wants to have it again. Why not?
Here is what I remember. Making a date with a girl and giving her 15 minutes after the time to show up. When she no shows, I head out to find a another date. I remember the front desk clerk knocking on my door and telling me I had a visitor while I still had a visitor in the room. I told the clerk to let the girl know to cool her heels and I'll be down soon to get her. Walking out with my previous date. Sending her off and taking the new girl up to the room with me.
I remember the same thing happening when I went out to get another date and when I returned my original date was in the lobby waiting for me. Quick check with both girls and off we go up to the room. I learned very quickly not to double book as many have suggested. But I did wind up double booked or with girls back to back due to lateness. Something that I experienced from day one of my visits here. And yes we are talking about Santo Domingo.
I have written about this before. There is a body of academic work about how different countries and cultures view time and work. Those differences are real. If you want talk personal accountability well honestly that is a completely different subject in and of itself. If you want to talk business then business is about making money. Getting paid. If you are spending money then you are just another consumer. And all talk about game or business is erroneous. Trying to attribute the ills of society to how people spend money is erroneous. I don't know the background of all the critics that write here. And quite honestly I don't care too. Critics talk and are irrelevant. Men in the arena do!
It is the men in the arena that matter.
[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2043656]The DR novios that Old Kool says screwed them over and left them unwed mothers have already eaten the icing. Now you are groveling over paying for stale cake. LOL.
If you have money you are just as good as any other option.[/QUOTE]Not really, the icing is not their virginity, but being able to satisfy curiosity about how they look naked, how it feels to touch their skin, how they act when having sex, and so on without making any long term commitment of time or money.
I thought your shtick had always been that women are not interested in you for money or any kind of financial or lifestyle advantage--they are just lonely and want your company for its own sake.
In any case, having a guy come to the DR every so often to have sex in your basic apartment in the barrio is hardly as alluring as having the opportunity to go and live in Italy or Canada, or Switzerland, or the Netherlands and start a new life and family, especially if you have a passport and financial situation that makes it impossible for you to ever travel away from the island where you were born by other means.
I don't think people in Sosua are complaining about girls being late, you just step into the street and pick the next one. Get outside of Sosua and that dynamic changes. Also it's a difference between a girl coming for an hour fuck and a girl coming for a date and maybe spending the night. The conversation started because mostly girls in SD were always late.
You speak on how Sosua used to be and I agree but the hustle was respected back then with a code. Now we are seeing stinking pussies, girls doing CBJ, and girls rushing out. It's all about the fast dollar.
It's one of the disadvantages about living in a tourist trap, it sugarcoats the DR experience. Step outside the tourist areas where you have thousands of options, can dictate terms, and spend time in other areas. Then you will notice patience and understanding are the only way of survival for a gringo.
Understanding in the DR is a guy you don't know delivering your lost keys, saving you from changing the locks or making new keys, and eliminating you of the worry of a future attempted burglary, and offering a worthy reward. Not a two dollar reward which it would have cost you to replace just one key. Not trying to understand would be you trying to impose your American values and say you would have returned them for free.
You have to make the adjustment bro, because you are playing a losing game and the outcome will be you getting frustrated and blaming the Dominicans (we see that always in your posts). Life in the DR will never change to meet your standards.
P.S. You are stuck in your comfort zone you have created, and analysing everything based on Sosua but I really think you need to relocate to another real DR city to get a new perspective. Peace.
[QUOTE=Wrx2005;2043775]In years past, in Sosua or the DR generally, guys used to make tentative plans with chicas? For instance, a guy is walking about in Sosua, bumps into a fine chica. A brief chat ends up with him telling her he might get with her a certain time. Or for her to come by his place later. He tells her where he's staying. And like clockwork, that chica shows up at his hotel at the designated time, and might be standing around waiting for him.
Or a guy communicates with a chica before his trip. He tells her the day he's coming. Chica shows up at the airport waiting for him to come out. How many vets remember chicas showing up to a guys hotel like that? But the guy either forgot about it, or didn't think the chica would take him seriously. I'm talking about back then when these girls didn't have cell phones. And if they did it was a cheap Alcatel phone, and if high on the hog it was a BlackBerry.
Wasnt it a common thing that a guy would have to watch what he said to a chica, because that chica will show up at his place at the time he said he could see her? The chica assumed she had an appointment.
Same thing with a local taxi driver. The local taxi driver might ask the day the guy is leaving, and show up at the guys hotel hoping to get a return fare.
My point here, if my memory serves me correctly, is that enough foreigners dealing with locals experienced folks here that did care about time on a social level and a business level. A short while ago I used to sit and chill at Rockys. I called the front area The Office. Chicas would pass by all the time. I might check one out and agree to hook up with them at a certain time. But I'd tell them that right now, I'm chilling with my friends.
When I decide to get up to leave, that chica shows up on time ready to leave with me. In fact, sometimes during the course of guys sitting there, some chicas will make several passes just to make sure a guy is still there.
I think we can gather from this, that we can't conclude that locals don't generally care about time. There are always examples out there that people forget about. More than we give credit for. Why? Because enough folks don't pay much attention when people are on time or being conscientious. There's more attention given when people are late or no shows.
Another thing we might can gather, is that the use of today's technology, especially the use of the internet may have corrupted us further to a certain extent. In addition a new breed of folks with less home training than the previous generation are now on the scene. Now the moment a guy nutts and heads to take a shower, the chica has already whipped out her phone and is checking on her other clients. Trying to juggle them all.
The family, the chulos, The WU novios, the next potential client she eyeballed at New Garden restaurant, the guys she communicates with on Facebook, Whatsapp, Tagged, DC, her bi-sexual GF, her amigas that help her to score some new clients staying in a villa etc. No wonder some muggs can't be on time. Work potential overload. Too much shit going on, right at ones fingertips.
So there was a season when locals valued time a lot more, socially and in business. I just think that things have evolved for the worse, and the lack of putting people in check and making them accountable is really why lateness and not giving a fuck about time comes from. In business where deadlines are very important, folks have less of a choice, like the Caribe Tours example. But on a social level, muggs can get to do whatever the fuck they want to do, because they don't have anybody stepping up to give a fuck. It sure aint coming from their HOME TRAINING.
Collectively were cultures filled with softies. Enough men have a hard time accepting their role as men, that lead, take control , offer guidance and solutions to problems with others. Now it's. "you have to accept it" because that is the way it is, or the way they are. Fuck that!. Women today are screaming for men (by their out of control and assbackwards behavior) to take responsibility and take charge, and all we ( collectively ) find ourselves being is accommodating.[/QUOTE]You are spending too much time in the company of hookers. Suggest you move to a different part of the DR to complete your Ph. D. thesis on Dominicans and the times of their lives.
I have followed the different points in this discussion and believe everyone is making valid points. One of my favorite analogies is "is it a floor or a ceiling?" Of course the answer depends on your perspective. If a person only deals with women who as a matter of practice exchanges money for sex in the Dominican Republic that person might possibly assume all women here exchange money for sex and their opinions are based on that fact. In my experience all Dominican women do not exchange sex for money. In fact if every woman I encounter is exchanging sex for money that speaks to my choices as well as the women who make themselves available for that purpose.
Sometimes people are different in different geographical locations. For example I have travelled extensively outside tourist areas such as Sosua and the North Coast; I have discovered that I am treated differently therefore I need to respond differently. Some of my anecdotal experiences are different because I have exposed myself to different people and situations dealing with a cross section of people.
I think this discussion has been insightful seeing different people points of view.
On my last trip I wifed up with a pretty little thing from San Juan. At first she was a little shy and reserved. Once she got comfortable the sex was awesome. The sad thing for me is even with all this I still wanted to sport fuck. Wifing up in Sosua is never easy. Everywhere you go girls are trying to get your attention. I have stayed in contact with the little sweetie and I am planning another trip next month.
Last trip I ram into a 70 year old guy who has moved to the Sosua area. He was giving me advise on which girls gave best BJs and other inside info. When I first met him he was a rookie to the seen. While in the states 70 year old guys going to nursing home while this guy is banging 24 year old hotties. He was an obvious sugar daddy but he had the sugar and the girls wanted it.
[QUOTE=MrGogo;2043790]I don't think people in Sosua are complaining about girls being late, you just step into the street and pick the next one. Get outside of Sosua and that dynamic changes. Also it's a difference between a girl coming for an hour fuck and a girl coming for a date and maybe spending the night. The conversation started because mostly girls in SD were always late.[/QUOTE]Exactly how do you rationalize that no people in Sosua have cpmplained about chicas in Sosua being late? That doesn't even sound logical.
[QUOTE]You speak on how Sosua used to be and I agree but the hustle was respected back then with a code. Now we are seeing stinking pussies, girls doing CBJ, and girls rushing out. It's all about the fast dollar.[/QUOTE]Actually, I wasnt focused on how Sosua used to be. Thats too broad a subject. I mentioned Sosua and the DR in general in regards to how chicas were more likely to be somewhere on time. How did you end up re interpreting what I said to be only about how Sosua used to be? I don't know what hustle or code you are referring to in regards to chicas showing up on time. I mean it sounds good. But what exactly does that mean practically? Please explain?. IMO it's simple. Chicas commonly showed up on time, because they wanted to get paid and / or reap the benefits from the foreigner. And in enough instances they were motivated because they were competing with other women. That is still going on, it's just that lateness and no shows seem to be an epidemic. Thats not just in Sosua, thats all over.
[QUOTE]It's one of the disadvantages about living in a tourist trap, it sugarcoats the DR experience. Step outside the tourist areas where you have thousands of options, can dictate terms, and spend time in other areas. Then you will notice patience and understanding are the only way of survival for a gringo.[/QUOTE]Disadvantage? Tourist trap? Sugarcoats the DR experience? I guess whatever you are talking about would be seen as a disadvantage or a tourist trap, for you. Or someone ill prepared. IMO a person that needs to step outside somewhere to find options (outside of an option rich environment) , is the person who is searching for something they have not found within. Thats not a good or a bad thing. It's their choice. Personally I'm quite content with life living in the DR and Sosua particularly. The beauty of this, is that we all can only think in one head. How you think my life or any person living in Sosua is, does not necessarily result in my or their reality. You may not want to accept that, but that is the way it is.
[QUOTE]Understanding in the DR is a guy you don't know delivering your lost keys, saving you from changing the locks or making new keys, and eliminating you of the worry of a future attempted burglary, and offering a worthy reward. Not a two dollar reward which it would have cost you to replace just one key. Not trying to understand would be you trying to impose your American values and say you would have returned them for free.[/QUOTE]Wait a second? Arent you trying to impose your standard of reward on me of what you think I should have paid the guy?
Let me explain how living here works as opposed to someone who visits. I'm not going to give the guy who brings me my keys the money designated for the guy who found my keys. You can rest assured the finder might not get the money. Now let me ask you this. How much did I pay the guy who actually found my keys? Yeah that's right, I found out exactly who it was. Ya see, you wouldn't ask that question because you arent focused on how I assessed the situation. Moreover, I gave the guy who brought me my keys the option of telling me what he wanted. And he refused to tell me. I'm not going to fall into no gringo trap of giving some guy more than what's enough. I gave him 100 pesos initially. He can eat with that, or get almost a tanks worth of gas in his motorcycle. If he wanted more he had a mouth, he could have spoke up. Instead he started acting like a scammer.
Do you recall the incident I shared a few months ago here where one of my scooters caught a flat? I mentioned here that the moto that stopped and went to seek help asked me for 100 pesos for his trouble. He didn't sit there telling me how much money I would have paid if he hadn't come along. What he asked for was fair to him, and it was fair to me. Then the time I ran out of gas in town with my golf car, and another moto went and got gas. I gave him I think 150 pesos and he was happy about that. I live in the DR now, and I know how much value locals place on things others take for granted. I handled things according to where I was and who I was dealing with. Not how you propose I should have handled it.
[QUOTE]You have to make the adjustment bro, because you are playing a losing game and the outcome will be you getting frustrated and blaming the Dominicans (we see that always in your posts). Life in the DR will never change to meet your standards.[/QUOTE]I beg to differ. I think you need to make the adjustment and stop trying to assume how an individual lives, thinks or operates using limited information provided on a message board. "Blaming the Dominicans (we see that always in your posts). ".
Ya know, I can see why Camaro as cool and collective as he is on this board and in person, has got to the point where he's less inclined to post. Oh well, that's just how it is.
[QUOTE]P.S. You are stuck in your comfort zone you have created, and analysing everything based on Sosua but I really think you need to relocate to another real DR city to get a new perspective. Peace.[/QUOTE]Yes I have a comfort zone. You say stuck? If my visiting several cities in the DR like last year, and years past is stuck in my comfort zone, I guess I'm guilty as charged. Obviously one would think that, if all they have to go on is my board participation. Exactly what is analyzing EVERYTHING based on Sosua consist of? I think you are exaggerating and distorting things again. Ad hominem. Attacking the person, not the perspective.
No bruh, it's more like this. I think you are stuck in judgement without understanding zone. I believe your goal in responding is not to understand, but to pick certain things apart if it doesn't meet your approval or strikes a cord. The key thing that exposes that, is that you never ask questions or even prove anything that's said is wrong, unfounded or does not apply somewhere. Ya know why? Because the perspective you contrive is not the individuals but your distorted version. Nobody lives their life on a message board. There fore there is no way you can make an accurate assessment of what someone else supposedly needs, should or shouldnt do, how they operate or how they think.
Brother,
I'm not getting into a long discussion on this with you, you say my posts don't make sense, then you say you don't understand. You are a very intelligent guy so it's time to analyze posts for meaning not for discussion.
Read Frannies, Camaro and my post again and maybe you will get what we are saying, if not then so be it.
[QUOTE=MrGogo;2044186]Brother,
I'm not getting into a long discussion on this with you, you say my posts don't make sense, then you say you don't understand. You are a very intelligent guy so it's time to analyze posts for meaning not for discussion.
Read Frannies, Camaro and my post again and maybe you will get what we are saying, if not then so be it.[/QUOTE]The fallacies of what I supposedly said just keep coming and coming. Exactly when did I tell you that YOUR posts don't make sense, and that I do not understand? In my last post in the very beginning, I said "Exactly how do you rationalize that no people in Sosua have complained about chicas in Sosua being late? That doesn't even sound logical. ".
How does that translate today into "your posts don't make sense, you do not understand?" What posts are you talking about? Is there someone else posting in my name? I asked you a question for clarification on how you came up with that. How do you know I don't or won't understand if you won't or can't explain it?
In fact I asked you several key questions based on the points you made for clarification. And I also pointed out my rationale and reasoning on how I handled a matter regarding my keys. My point is bruh. If you choose to make disparaging remarks (subtle, obvious or in presupposition) concerning a fellow board member, at least be prepared to back up what you say with reasons and rationale to support it when asked. Especially when you do not have personal experience seeing how that person operates day to day.
And after you get some quality feedback, be willing to acknowledge that difference in perspective from yours, as possibly being valid to whom it applies to, even if you don't like it or agree with it. Thats how folks have meaningful discussions. Don't just settle for, you don't want to get into a long discussion.
When you say you don't know the word " hustle" it's not a whole lot to explain further. You can figure it out if you want but you are going to dissect it for irrelevant inspection. What context was it used, who said it, what day of the week was it said on and was it a full moon? I chose not to play those games, common sense is needed only.