Costs and a response to EastGoing
Now for a breakdown of my costs. I was in Vilnius Lithuania for work prior to this trip so my business paid for that. I got a round trip Aeroflot ticket from Vilnius to Moscow for $208 USD and when I mad the change to extend another day it was about $100 USD more to make the change. My business paid for my trip back to Frankfurt from Vilnius.
My Apartment cost just under $200 USD a day including all fees and the apartment was great and in a perfect location. I think a much better deal than any hotel. Total about $1400.
Meals with Girls:
Dinner with Svetlana 14th about $200 taxi in morning about $30.
Lunch with Olga 15th about $40.
Dinner with Olga 15th about $70 taxi home about $30.
Breakfast with Lana the 16th about $20.
Lunch with Lana the 16th about $60.
Dinner with Anna the 16th about $60
'Late Lunch' with Alina the 17th $20.
Dinner evening Svetlana about $200 taxi home about $30.
Dinner with Olga the 18th about $200 taxi home about $30.
Dinner with Olga the 19th about $60 taxi home about $30.
Drinks, hookah, and food with Diana on the 20th about $200.
Breakfast with Diana the 21st about $20.
Dinner with Lana the 21st about $120 plus gift taxi home about $30.
Room service late night with Olga about $80 taxi to hotel about $15.
Brunch with Marina the 22nd about $30 plus wine gift plus taxi to and from meeting about $40.
Room service lunch with Olga the 22nd about $100.
Room service late dinner with Olga the 22nd about $100.
Lunch with Olga on 23rd about $50.
Taxi and train total about $70.
A few incidental expenses, groceries, flowers, beer with Jake, etc.
I used Hilton points to pay for my hotel room so no cost there.
My total expenditure for the 9 days was right around $4000.
I had sex a total of about 18 times with three different girls, all without condoms, including 6 overnights and some extreme intimacy, anal, public making out, and some good hardcore action. I had some other good dates that will hopefully set me up for future visits. I think Olga wants to marry me even though I have made no suggestion in that direction.
My only regret is I had no time to try out Moscow pay for play. Oh well.
On a final note, I want to address EastGoing's posts in the Russia forums. Perhaps you are absolutely correct. Maybe my Ukrainian 'girlfriend' does not actually love me. Maybe she is just using me to get a 'better life. ' But what does it matter? We are all looking for a better life and a means to get there. Perhaps she could not fall in love with a mature, intelligent, well spoken, caring, kind, Western gentleman that treats her well in the few days she was with me. Maybe Olga or Svetlana see me and see a better life for themselves, too. I treat them the way they want to be treated, and they treat me the way I want to be treated. Would they be this way with just any Westerner? You tell me.
With these girls they and I are both getting a better life through the relationship. Maybe they are fudging the truth to me, or even to themselves, but I am fudging the truth in return. I LOVE the intimacy I have gotten with these girls. It is a new experience for me. Ukraine and Russia have been incredible to me. If I can give these girls a better life, if even for a few months, or only weeks, or even days, what is the harm that they are using me? I have absolutely no doubt they are having fun, and seeing as none of them have even hinted at money for support from me, then there must be something to it. Olga has tried to pay for her taxi, and Anna, Diana, and Lana insisted on using the metro even after I offered them taxi fare. Lana wanted to pay her way into the Kremlin. Was it just for show? Who knows? I got what I wanted from them, and they also got something in return. And they are still contacting me.
Will I return to Moscow? Fuck yes.
My advice for moscow freebies as I see it:
1. As I said before, if you want to try the freebie world: prepare, prepare, prepare. I could hardly be much more happy with the results of my efforts.
2. Finding a Russian girl with no English skills at all can be better than one with poor skills. If she has poor skills, she will want to speak to you and get frustrated. If she has no English skills and likes you at all, she will sit in a bar or restaurant with you and a translator (IPad mini with the ISpeak Russian app worked fantastic for me). Prepare ahead of time and find a place where you can sit on a couch next to her. Get close while you are using the translator. Many opportunities for humor, closeness, touching (if she likes you, she will end up leaning against you). I think this could also great if you are not confident speaking to a girl as long as you write well. Translators work poorly if you don't practice using them and you cannot spell.
3. Dress well. I wore very nice shoes, slacks, dress shirt, and sports coat or suit every single time I met a girl to go out. Also, be adventurous. I wore conservative clothing but wore socks and pocket squares that were fun and coordinated. I had at least 6 girls, including 3 that I was not dating, say very positive things about my socks. Light grey with blue or yellow polka dots to match some of the blue or yellow in my pocket square. It got a lot of positive attention. Russian guys wear black socks.
4. Touch early and often, but judge the girl on how much she is comfortable with. I hugged and kissed (mostly cheeks but a couple light mouth kisses) each girl when I met them. I was holding hands or had my arm around the waste of every girl I went out with in the first 10 minutes of walking with them. Sit next to them when you can instead of across from them at a table. Say it is easier to have a conversation. I was touching the knee and then thigh of every girl I was with within the first hour of sitting with them. With some girls I was more liberal with my touching. Some I kept it conservative. Keep it casual as if it were normal To touch that way—because it should be and often is. Also give light massages. Touch their back while sitting with them. Give them light strokes and light massage. Touch the back of their neck. Be gentle. But make it clear you want to be more than just friends without making it seem sex is the only thing you are after-casual touching is a great way to do that. I also looked for good opportunities for a first kiss while we were out. Again, I did not force this and I typically kept it very light. If she responds well to touching and seems to like a more aggressive approach, step things up.
5. To emphasize that note, I did not mention sex at all with any of the girls while writing to them. Some I wrote to for months and we wrote as friends. I slowly added terms of endearment to my writing (sweetheart, dear, and other such things) , and signed of with things like 'with warm affection. ' The written conversation never got sexual from me at all except with Svetlana and Diana. Even with them it was very mild when the conversation turned to 'sweetness' and I asked them if they tasted sweet. Both of them responded positively. The others I kept talk of sex out completely unless asked directly. At which point I followed the advice of one of our Ukraine thread compatriots who recommended saying something like 'I enjoy sex as all men do, but I am not 18 anymore so sex is not all I ever think about. ' I would not have said it if not asked directly.
6. Buy her roses. In the USA it seems the rule is either a single rose or a dozen. In Russia there seems to be no such rule. I bought a single rose for every first meeting and upped it to three or five for subsequent meetings. It actually became sort of funny as I was buying them all from a same vendor—sometimes twice in one day and about ten different times while I was there.
7. Learn some Russian! Even a little goes a long way.
8. Rent an apartment. I think regular girls are much more likely to go with you to an apartment than a hotel. A hotel makes them seem like a hooker. An apartment is more appropriate to a normal girl.
9. Don't show up tired! I hardly had any sleep the days prior to arriving. I suffered because of it.
10. If you are not actually going to Moscow for work, tell the girls that you are. Tell them you will be very busy and tell them your colleagues will want to go out at night, too. This is pretty basic stuff in Moscow, so it is believable. You need to do this if you plan to juggle multiple girls.
My original plan was as follows:
Friday 14 June Arrive in Moscow. Get oriented to the city and go out with Svetlana on Friday night. She was the only girl I told I was arriving on the 14th instead of the 15th. I thought she was the greatest chance to get laid on the first night so I put my bet there.
Saturday 15 June- Meet with Olga early in the afternoon and Anastasia for the evening. In our conversations I felt that Olga was a good prospect for sex as she seemed really into me, but I also suspected she would take time. I felt that I had to get her to the golden third date before anything would happen. I was a bit leery of Anastasia as she is the only one that asked me to bring her a 'souvenir' from my trip to Lithuania. I don't normally like girls that ask for gifts. But she was very unspecific so I felt that it could be OK. She also indicated that she would make efforts to see me multiple times if it was possible so again I though that the magic third date was possible and she is young and attractive.
Sunday 16 June-I wanted to meet Lana in the morning early because I thought she was also a good prospect for sex—maybe even on the first or second date. I was also pretty sure she would meet in the morning for site seeing which most did not seem very interested in. She had not been very high on my priority list but I felt I could dump her at lunch if things were not to my liking. Anna had her last exam on Saturday so I asked if we could meet Sunday afternoon and I had hoped to stretch it into the evening with maybe some 'celebratory cocktails. ' Also, Monday was her birthday and I had brought her a nice gift that I would give her if I liked what I got.
Monday 17 June-I had an early lunch planned with Marina. I was scheduled to meet her around 11:00 for a 'couple of hours. ' I scheduled to meet with Alina mid-afternoon and see what would happen. I figured I could meet her directly from my lunch with Marina without further preparation. Alina worked during the weekend and Monday was her day off. I wanted to leave the evening open for a possible second date with another girl or an extended evening with Alina.
Tuesday 18 June –I wanted to leave the day open for a second date with Anna, possibly during the day as she was done with school for the summer. I thought I would go out to a strip club or try to find Pay-4-Play in the evening if I was not otherwise engaged with somebody else.
Wednesday 19 June – Diana was supposed to arrive from Samara the day before and we arranged to meet mid-afternoon stretching into the evening.
Thursday the 20th and Friday the 21st I was leaving open for additional dates or free agents to come into play. I was scheduled to fly out the evening of Saturday the 22nd.
Here is a brief description of the prospects and my prioritization.
Here is a brief description of the prospects and my prioritization. I gave a very similar list to my ISG friend yellowpaul several weeks ago:
1. Anna. Not beautiful but very cute. 20 years old. 5'3".105 pounds, very intelligent and in school to be a doctor. I am VK friends with her and I see lots of pictures from her real life, her friends and stuff. Pictures of her and friends in medical setting. Attractive and young friends. Has been one of the most flirtatious of any that I am in contact with. Knows English well.
2. Svetlana- 30 years old. 5'6'.120 pounds. Fits my taste perfectly as far as looks. She looks young. She speaks very little English but she seemed very happy with the idea of meeting me in a Café and using a computer for translation as we sit together. Most flirtatious of all the girls. Clearly open to sex although we have not addressed it directly. If she were a few years younger she would be my first choice.
3. Alina-19 years old. 5'8' tall. 120 pounds. Attractive. Says she speaks almost no English but understands a fair amount. Very poor. Works as a store clerk selling sporting goods. She hates Russian men. First girl to indicate she was interested in traveling with me. Since then she seems to have gotten nervous about the language barrier. I was not sure where this one would go. But I wanted to meet her to make sure she was worthy of being a travel companion.
4. Olga-25 years old. 5'7'.120 pounds. One of the first I developed good relations with. Decent English. I think she loves me already. The only one in this group that I have Skyped with. Works as a travel agent. Wants to travel. She would be much higher on my list but she is BLONDE.
5. Anastasia- 24 years old. 5'3'.105 pounds, very cute with a cute body. Just became a 'doctor' of internal medicine. She assures me that in Russia this is the normal age. I'm not really sure if it is comparable but she is obviously intelligent. Flirty and fun. Not sure why she is not higher on my list. Good English.
6. Diana – She had not been on my priority list until about a week before I arrived in Moscow. We had discussed my visit but she lived in Samara and I did not want to go out there and she did not want to come to visit me. But a week before my visit she said she decided to visit her sister in Moscow the week I was there. I saw this as a good sign. The problem is that I did not know what to expect. I had seen many face pictures and some full body pictures. In some she looked a little heavy, and in some she looked just fine. In he profile, she said she was 142 kilos which I knew was a joke—but how much of a joke? She is only 19 which is a good thing for me, and she was really fun to talk to, and the only one on my list that openly admitted to enjoying drinking. I thought the worst that could happen is that I would waste a few hours on her and not see her again so I added her to my list.
7. Lana-22, 5'7'.135. Speaks English well. She seems very into me. I thought definitely a solid prospect for sex. Not as pretty and not a great body from her pictures, but she is young and into me so I kept her on my list.
8. Marina- 27, 5'7'.130 pounds, Seemed very serious—maybe a bit depressed. Speaks English well and works as an English teacher. Again, older and not as nice a body, but still could be good. She lives outside of Moscow but said she would come in to visit her family and meet me the first day of her visit.
Backups-I thought that eight was all I could handle effectively with the time that I had. In addition to the eight, I had four backup girls that I had the phone numbers for that could be potentials if the others fell apart. I would keep in touch and tell them I was busy, but that I was still interested in seeing them.
9. Marina – A different marina from above. Nice looking girl. 27 years old. 5'6'.110 pounds, dark curly hair. Very much my type except a little older than my preference. She also openly admitted to enjoying wine. She seemed interested in the 'finer things in life' and I thought she could be expensive if allowed to order as she wanted at a nice restaurant.
10 Nadezhda – 24, 5'10'.120 pounds. Blonde. Had not written with her much but indicated early that she wanted to meet me and we had been writing slowly but steadily for 2 months. Fair English.
11. Zina-27, 5'3'.115, Nice writing. Seemed fun. Not as pretty, young, or as good a body as most of the others but could still be fun. Good English.
12. Oxana-26 years old. 5'9'.115 pounds, very attractive to me. Had been writing her a while. She has met several guys on this site already and says they were only interested in sex. She also wrote the words 'sex is not interesting to me. ' That is why she was last on my list. That said, she told me she really likes to kiss, so I am holding on to her because it can be fun to go out on the town with an attractive girl as long as she does not suck up too much cash.
My report for my 9 days in moscow.
I posted these in reverse order so you can read them straight through from start to finish.
I will start by saying that I prepared extensively for this trip. I am a member of a dating site and I started writing Russian girls back in March. It is a great site that a fellow board member recommended. It is great. Over the past 3 months I started conversations with over 300 girls on the site and weeded them down using some subjective criteria and a large number of them I would had been interested in also stopped communicating with me. Those were mostly the younger girls. In any case from about the start of May I was regularly writing to about 30 girls and had built a solid foundation with about 16 that really wanted to meet with 11 of those in Moscow. Over the month prior to my visit I think I was spending nearly 3 hours a day on average cultivating these relationships. It was a lot of work and may not be worth it to many. I was not really working much during that time so it worked out for me.