Stupid Shit in Kyiv

[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2687901]Israel pointing out the right of return isn't meaningful beyond exactly what it is.
That you want to shift the paradigm away from Putin, and instead pivot to the Jews, is very telling indeed.[/QUOTE]The Right of Exclusion is exactly what it is, the prerogative of a supremacist ethno-religious apartheid state. Fine by them -- so long as they can get away with it. This state has pivoted to Ukraine by using the sad situation as an opportunity to lure away the Ukiejew population, while the Ukiechristians can remain to get slaughtered.

Now that you've been shifted back to realities, any further of your commentary on this subject would be telling, telling that you've internalized the commands of your oppressors.

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2687386]BTW, the fact that you sidle up to the psyop term "Special Operation" is another clear tell of how far up Putin's nether orifice you are. You really should arrange a meet with Pedro M, IRL. Maybe he could direct some of his "stock of wealth" your way?[/QUOTE]Maybe they are the same person, Russian bots are everywhere.

That is exactly why I used "quotes".

Those of us old enough to remember the "Mission accomplished" banner. You know.

And yes, the scenario you paint, an Eastern Ukraine sinking in poverty and a Western Ukraine quickly improving their standards of life is the "win" that Russia may not survive scenarios I was thinking of.


[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2687780]What would constitute a Russian "win" and what would be a considered a "loss"? A month ago, we were thinking Russia would run over Kiev and topple the Zelensky government.

Simply initiating destruction is not considered a victory in modern war thinking.

A likely outcome is that Russia occupies some Ukrainian territory indefinitely. Is that a "win" if the West rebuilds the rest of the Ukraine better than before and invites them into the European Union? Is it a "win" if Finland and Sweden join NATO?

In most wars, the tragic loss of life and destruction does not usually lead to a better situation. Life will suck for Eastern Ukrainians. However, the Ukraine will emerge as a sovereign nation with a stronger identity.[/QUOTE]

It is only 50 days, that I agree is like 45 more than most pundits expected.

However Ukraine is a small nation, they can not take the losses the same way Russians do, forget armor, I am talking about loss of human life.

Compromise will happen most likely, but as I said, it is likely that this will damage Russian more in the medium / long term.

Let see.

[QUOTE=GDreams;2687902]What has been shown in this war is that size doesn't matter. Russian military is dominated by armour. Its clear that the armour wasn't successful against Kiev. When you have to meet your enemy on foot in their territory you need significantly larger numbers than the defender as well as good logistic support.

The Russian air force has not even been able to establish air superiority. The Russian military is using dated technology that does not stand up to drones and hand held anti tank and anti aircraft weaponry. In the age of the smart phone there is not a lot of enthusiasm for volunteering to be a grunt that gets their limbs blown off. Not good selfie material hence the low moral.

If the west keeps up sufficient supply of modern weapons then Russia will not be able to hold ground taken. If the west gets bored and tapers its supply Russia will probably grind itself to military victory at the cost of much of its front line armour and aircraft and in 3-4 years the biggest market for its gas gone. Europe (read Germany) has finally worked out that financially supporting Russia is not in their long term interests.[/QUOTE]

You evil imperialist dog!

The Moskva has not been sunk! It has been upgraded with submarine warfare capabilities, a technology you can only dream of.

More seriously, I am not as happy as you are. My development team was mostly based in Ukraine, and while so far they are all more or less good. And some of them even outside fighting the CyberArmy, the toll is really heavy.



[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2687858]
I'm sure you've noticed that, when faced with objective facts such as the sinking of the Moskva, or the rubbleization of the ruble, G & P will shuck and jive, change the subject, or whatever else they can think of to avoid the reality that's slapping them in the face and skewering their BS.
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Golfinho;2688006]The reality of a unipolar world -- won't that be nice. Then you'll get to experience the real life as a be -- globohomo rule, paying girls everywhere in dollars / euros, Americanized women from Moscow, Kiev, everywhere. See how that works?

We don't care about Putin, but if you need a bogeyman for your projections, that's understandable.[/QUOTE]I personally don't give a fuck about unipolar vs multipolar. But I do care when butchers rise up and, using the pretexts that are always at hand, invade countries that posed no real threat. And please spare us the mindless repetition of the gas that Putin blows out his ass. There is no objective, rational, analysis that supports the notion that Russia faced an existential threat. If you're looking for bogeymen, look no further than the ludicrous hysterics filling Russian media.

I've never been a defender of pre-Feb 24th Ukraine and I'm quite aware of a variety of sins they're likely guilty of. But nothing excuses Putin's war of choice. And nothing excuses the war crimes about which evidence (much of it gathered by third-parties) mounts daily.

The term "bogeyman" implies that the fear, blame, and oppobrium is misplaced. In stark contrast, and based on overwhelming factual evidence, Putin fully deserves his condemnation. All that remains is for a tipping point to be reached within Russia itself. It's instructive to remember that Mussolini was adored and revered, until the moment arrived when he wasn't. May that moment arrive for Putin as quickly as possible.

BTW, even if (when, IMO) Putin is dethroned, the most likely scenario is that his replacement will come from the current crop of Russian elites. That person will blame Putin for everything, and will promise reforms, most of which will be of the token variety if they happen at all. But Russia will continue, most probably along the customary kleptocratic lines, with the only difference being the demonization of Putin.

And demonization is exactly what will happen. Stalin was a butcher but he wasn't a loser. Russian pride can tolerate butchery as long as it's accompanied by victory. What they can't tolerate is a loser, and that's exactly the label they'll stick on poor LilliPutin. Their own pride and self-esteem will demand that they expunge the memory of Putin from the collective consciousness. It will be glorious to witness!

Oh, and China will continue to be a major player, so you can still have you multipolar wet dreams, no worries. But Russia may have cause to worry about China as Comrade Xi looks to take advantage of the power vacuum Putin's downfall will cause. Does anyone remember the Chinese name for Vladivostok? It might be useful to brush up on little factoids like that.

[QUOTE=Cons68;2688102]More seriously, I am not as happy as you are. My development team was mostly based in Ukraine, and while so far they are all more or less good. And some of them even outside fighting the CyberArmy, the toll is really heavy.[/QUOTE]Everything posted in this forum can be appropriately characterized as "comments from the peanut gallery," and thoroughly inconsequential. But the real lives in Ukraine being disrupted, destroyed, and untimely ended, that's what truly matters.

Every analyst and ivory tower pundit who doesn't acknowledge the price being paid by real people isn't worth reading or listening to.

Also, anything I might post that might seem "happy" is only so to the extent that I will be glad to see the just consequences of brutality and aggression visited upon the heads of the aggressors and brutalizers. I would have been truly happy had Ukraine not been invaded.

Great mental stimulation going down memory lane. So glad I enjoyed the golden years but sad it ended this unimaginable way. First one to go was Donetsk.

Originally Posted by Jojosun.

I have a feeling (blondie's party) will win the election, come jan10, and she has pledged to join the ee, then the golden days will come gradually to an end.

The IMF and the EE did not pump 16 billion dollars into the Ukraine economy for nothing.

Ukraine can not be more nationalist than Serbia, which opted for the ee direction, so in a nutshell the ee needs Ukraine, and the Ukraine needs the ee, and they couldn't give a fuck about us mongers.

[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev/page1105[/URL]

[URL]https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/04/18/former-sberbank-senior-executive-flees-russia-vedomosti-a77389[/URL]

For clarification, my definition of the elite class is wider than just govt officials, and includes anyone with sufficient money and societal status such that they could (if they chose) ride out the current storm. That's not to say they wouldn't endure some degree of hardship, but their position and wealth would serve as a buffer against severe outcomes.

When someone in that class chooses to leave, that's a de facto vote on how they view their future prospects in Russia. And, when a member of the elite class takes such a drastic step, it's guaranteed that others will notice. And some who take note will start asking their own questions, and perhaps start making or perfecting their own plan of departure.

Sanctions were imposed on Russia but the Folks at Goldman Sacks found a way of getting round it according to NBC.

[URL]https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/goldman-sachs-profits-ukraine-war-loophole-sanctions-rcna19584[/URL]

"How Goldman Sachs profits from war in Ukraine, loophole in sanctions.

The Wall Street firm has told the public it is "winding down" its business in Russia, portraying its actions as supportive of USA Efforts to stop Russian President Vladimir Putin."

"An investor who declined a Goldman trader's offer to add Russian debt to his hedge fund's portfolio — because of the war — said the trader suggested he could "just put it in your personal account" to avoid scrutiny".

Shares in defence stocks are surging [URL]https://www.forbes.com/sites/sergeiklebnikov/2022/03/04/war-stocks-are-surging-as-russia-ukraine-conflict-rages-on-lockheed-martin-northrop-up-20/[/URL].

[URL]www.thetimes.co.uk[/URL]

Defence companies having a good war in Ukraine as shares skyrocket.

Such investors aren't really weeping over the Invasion of Ukraine, are they?

[QUOTE=Golfinho;2688025]The Right of Exclusion is exactly what it is, the prerogative of a supremacist ethno-religious apartheid state. Fine by them -- so long as they can get away with it. This state has pivoted to Ukraine by using the sad situation as an opportunity to lure away the Ukiejew population, while the Ukiechristians can remain to get slaughtered.

Now that you've been shifted back to realities, any further of your commentary on this subject would be telling, telling that you've internalized the commands of your oppressors.[/QUOTE]Putin is the one doing all the killing. Your attempt to blame the Jews ultimately didn't work for Hitler, won't work for Putin, and labels you as one in the same for all to see.

[QUOTE=Jojosun;2688389]Sanctions were imposed on Russia but the Folks at Goldman Sacks found a way of getting round it according to NBC.

[URL]https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/goldman-sachs-profits-ukraine-war-loophole-sanctions-rcna19584[/URL]

"How Goldman Sachs profits from war in Ukraine, loophole in sanctions.

The Wall Street firm has told the public it is "winding down" its business in Russia, portraying its actions as supportive of USA Efforts to stop Russian President Vladimir Putin."

"An investor who declined a Goldman trader's offer to add Russian debt to his hedge fund's portfolio because of the war said the trader suggested he could "just put it in your personal account" to avoid scrutiny".[/QUOTE]If I understand the Goldman Sachs article correctly, the Russian debt in question is being bought and sold on the secondary market and had to be issued before March 1st. Russia (as the issuer of the primary security) has already received the funds from the initial sale. These secondary sales are between institutions or private individuals trading in those already-issued instruments, and no sanctioned entity can be party to, or a beneficiary of, such transactions.

That's certainly not a defense of Goldman Sachs. It's entirely fair to criticize them as bottom-feeding scum looking to make a profit from the wartime misery of others, so feel free to bash away! I just wanted to point out that this particular sanction "loophole" does not direct money into Putin's war coffers, or (as is so often the case) his personal pocket.

As for defense companies profiting, that's pretty much always been true in times of war. I wonder what the balance sheets and P&L statements of arrow and lance manufacturers looked like in medieval times?

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2688619]If I understand the Goldman Sachs article correctly, the Russian debt in question is being bought and sold on the secondary market and had to be issued before March 1st. Russia (as the issuer of the primary security) has already received the funds from the initial sale. These secondary sales are between institutions or private individuals trading in those already-issued instruments, and no sanctioned entity can be party to, or a beneficiary of, such transactions.

That's certainly not a defense of Goldman Sachs. It's entirely fair to criticize them as bottom-feeding scum looking to make a profit from the wartime misery of others, so feel free to bash away! I just wanted to point out that this particular sanction "loophole" does not direct money into Putin's war coffers, or (as is so often the case) his personal pocket.

As for defense companies profiting, that's pretty much always been true in times of war. I wonder what the balance sheets and P&L statements of arrow and lance manufacturers looked like in medieval times?[/QUOTE]I read the same thing. I don't know why our government wouldn't let USA Firms trade already issued Russian bonds. All that happens is investors who want to take on more risk buy the bonds from investors who cannot tolerate the risk of sitting on assets that could be totally worthless.

In my opinion, the headline is a bit of clickbait.

[URL]https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/finland-sweden-begin-nato-application-may-say-local-media-reports-2022-04-25/[/URL]

Where did all the Putin-loving posters go? I'd love for them to explain how this is all part of Little Vlad's masterful (sarc) plan!

[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2690025][URL]https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/finland-sweden-begin-nato-application-may-say-local-media-reports-2022-04-25/[/URL]

Where did all the Putin-loving posters go? I'd love for them to explain how this is all part of Little Vlad's masterful (sarc) plan![/QUOTE]That's because the Russians are losing. They're losing the war on the battlefield, they're losing the war of public opinion, they're losing their economy, their money, their lifestyles, their soul and their mind. With Finland joining NATO, they're about to lose that one thing they've been fighting for so hard. Keeping the block from expanding to its borders.

Oh well! It's hard to root for a loser.