In my case, the person at the door did not answer my question
[QUOTE=Aimless;2983918]There are ladyboy bars in Nana Plaza and the staff there is not shy about advertising it and discussing it, and since all the bars there are under the control of Nana Entertainment, I can't think of any reason to lie. I've been to Wonderland specifically several times in my nightly walks (every night) along Sukhumvit and specifically asked if there are any ladyboys in Wonderland. Both times I was given a clear unequivocal "no ladyboys here. Only real girls. " Further, my randy 30 year old very experienced monger buddy that lives here in Bangkok with me has pulled three girls out of Wonderland recently and has clearly confirmed they were all real girls. If anyone has any high quality evidence to the contrary then I'd sure like to hear about it. Cheers! A.[/QUOTE]Interesting that when I asked politely and with a smile I was bruskly shooed away, waved off, my question ignored.
Of course, I can only go by the way it looked to my eyes without any up close and personal contact. So I could be proven wrong.
I would say for Thai girls the staff was notably taller, more big boned with whiter skin, more surgically-perfected facial features and much more "glamorous" in terms of hair and make-up than any group of Thai girls I have seen in any other bar. So they definitely had a more upscale "special" look going for them. Odd then that I have rarely seen more than a couple of customers sitting in Wonderland gogo bar any time I have passed by.
Now, I have seen ladyboy bars where there were several quite realistic looking ladyboys and even hot looking ones where I could definitely believe a newby to the scene who had more than a few brews in him could accept one as a natural born female without suspecting otherwise. Straps a few years back, the only time I went in there with a curious GF, being one of them. And I am not saying that describes the situation with you or your friend at all. In fact, I am sure it does not.
I am just saying as far as some ladyboys in openly admitted ladyboy bars really coming close to fooling me into accepting them as beautiful "females" goes, I have seen some too. But Wonderland did not come across to me as one of them.
It should be mentioned along the way, pertinent to Wonderland or not, that many post-op ladyboys do consider themselves fully female, will describe themselves as female and insist on it to whoever asks all the way down the line. Short of a spot DNA or Chromosome check or perhaps a verifiably accurate government issued Identification Card, there is little anyone just meeting them can do to prove otherwise except go by their appearance, voice, demeanor and so on. Assuming their surgically-constructed vagina is fairly close to what her / his partner has encountered with previous real female partners, that is.
Ran into this once myself.
[QUOTE=HorseTrader;2984067]I've been in Nana Plaza 3 of the last 4 nights, each time briefly walking into Wonderland and each time pulling a genetic girl from a different bar. While in Wonderland, I saw about 80% who were clearly post-op ladyboys and 20% who were possibly genetic females. I'll be in Nana Plaza again tonight and we can meet for a brief visit to Wonderland. I'll show you who and why I think are ladyboys and you can tell me why you think they are genetic females. Thai hookers lie for a living, I won't believe them unless they decide to show their Thai ID. Send me a private message if you are interested.
This discussion reminds me of an encounter I had on Sukhumvit near Lek's Last Stand about 3 nights ago. I got chatting with a lady and wasn't sure if she was ladyboy or true lady. I asked and she said she is lady. I asked if she had pussy and she said "Yes, I bought and paid for pussy. It is mine," Never has it been clearer that post-op ladyboys consider themselves true females.
Some clues: Tall. Voice. Shoulder/hip ratio. Adams Apple. Exaggerated female motions (hip movement, hair toss). Aggressive. Arrogant. Huge fake tits.[/QUOTE]I ran into this once myself in the Philippines. Couldn't tell through the filters on the app that this person was ladyboy, and he shows up and I'm like "nah, not interested. " This caused a huge uproar and a crying declaration that he was indeed a woman. How hard would it be to just mark transgender on the dating app and not create that huge fucking fiasco. Anyway, my solution on the dating apps was to send a very brash message of "Must look like your pictures, must be a real woman, no ladybody, must have a valid ID, or else no money. " Confrontational and direct language are not necessarily the strong suit of college aged women. So usually the response to it was just an "okay, no problem. " Instand drop off on positive vibes, and probably a little nervousness inducing on their part. I hated sending that message over and over again, but it felt necessary due to being forced to endure the delusion of another individual that one night. I can also imagine that such a situation could potentially lead to an explosive negative outcome for them with an individual who is not so understanding and level headed.
Only clue I can add: speaking in a mock voice / whisper level to hide their actual deep voice.
The Wonderland Conundrum.
It seems to me, with my first visit to Thailand coming in 30 days, that all the controversy about the nature of the "staffs" (pun intended) at Wonderland just means I shouldn't bother going in there. There are dozens (perhaps hundreds?) of other places in Bangkok where adult entertainment can be found. Missing out on Wonderland won't amount to so much as a raindrop in the ocean to me.
But that's just me. I'll only have 4 days there to find my temporary true love (and as many others as I can) before I head to Pattaya to look for other disputed Ladyboy-status bars to avoid.
Thanks for all the great intel and insights on Bangkok, Gents! I'll do my best to use your advice wisely.
Wonderland and drink minimums at some bars.
[QUOTE=MrHappyKat;2984254]It seems to me, with my first visit to Thailand coming in 30 days, that all the controversy about the nature of the "staffs" (pun intended) at Wonderland just means I shouldn't bother going in there.[/QUOTE]I would agree that that is a valid approach for most men. My method of operation is to just walk around the top 2 levels of Nana Plaza and take a look inside many of the bars for 20 seconds each. Nothing wrong with ground level, I just havent had much personal success there. Don't even buy a drink until you find a bar that fits your fancy. Not to be missed are Billboards, Butterflies, and Geisha. There are a variety of smaller bars in corners and up stairways, you might find your favorite place is a bit hidden.
A couple nights ago I got pissed off at Bunny 5. While drinking my beer, a cute dancer was constantly eyeballing and smiling at me. I pointed to her and then to the empty seat next to me. The dancer signaled the waitress who brought me a laminated printed card that said to sit with a lady, the customers must purchase a minimum of 2 lady drinks at 220 baht each. That 2-drink minimum pissed me off so I paid the 165 baht for my beer and stood up to leave. The waitress protested my lack of tip, at which time I handed her the 2 drink minimum card and walked out. About 2 minutes later I was sitting in another Nana Plaza bar where I bought one beer and one lady drink. I also paid a bar fine and gave out a bunch of tips to staff and mamasan. I ended up leaving about 2000 baht in the other bar and spending another wad of cash with the girl who exited with me. That 2000 baht could have just as easily gone to Bunny 5, but they insisted that I commit to 2 lady drinks before I knew if my selected lady was my type.
I had heard rumors of such minimums, but this is the first time it was forced upon me.
