General Information

[QUOTE=Stroker Ace88;1231867]So my advice to anyone meeting a girl is to keep the Tagalog to yourself, never mention you have visited Thailand and be straight with the girls about your intentions and do not promise marriage to get into her panties.[/QUOTE]SA88 this is very good advice. I have been questioned twice in the last year by prospective gfs if I have ever visited Thailand. Despite their limited knowledge of geography and the world in general, Thailand now has a similar reputation in the Philippines to the one it has acquired in the Western hemisphere, as a sex tourist destination. It is kind of ironic since most of us are here in the Philippines for the same thing we seek in Thailand.

Of course I lied convincingly to the girl and told her I had never set foot in the country. She was one of the best fucks I ever had!

Ah Jezuz Fucking CHRIST are we going to start this shit AGAIN!

Most Humble suggestion: 1 post per day per BM, ONE (1) response per perceived insult.

I am going to have ta ignore bm's left and right to get to any useful reporting.

[QUOTE=Snow Koala; 1230608]For Mongers wanting to come to Phil for a 10 day trip, then the loop of Manila. Cebu. AC. Manila is a good round trip.

Cebu Pacific or Philippine Airlines from Manila to Cebu (1 hour). Cebu Pacific from Cebu to Clark (Angeles City airport) and then road from AC to Manila is a good round trip.[/QUOTE]If you going Cebu Pacific pay attention to there baggage fees or you might be in for a big surprise, speaking from experience. Everything on that airline is an add-on even choosing a seat prior to flight. Also if your plane breaks down in Cebu they most likely don't have the parts because they are located in Manila. That is what happen to me on a flight leaving Cebu, lucky I was able to get on another flight but almost missed my international connection in Manila.

[QUOTE=Mortman;1231392]Yesterday afternoon I arranged to meet Erica the 18 year old girl from Robinsons again, this time at my hotel the Waterfront. I told her I was interested in a threesome and she told me she had an older sister aged 19 who would be willing to join us, so I agreed to meet the both of them. We arranged to meet early in the afternoon and late morning we exchanged the customary 100 million text messages before the meeting. I received the usual message "we are very hungry" as they were travelling in the taxi to the hotel and I resigned myself to the cost of a Jollibees once they arrived.[/quote]I personally don't see "we are very hungry" as the norm, it should be a red flag, especially the 'we' part.

[quote]I don't know whether my tolerance levels are very low at the moment but when they had not arrived after 30 minutes of waiting out the front of the hotel, I told them if they were not here in 5 minutes I was history. I knew that this would cause panic since they were in a taxi with no means to pay the taxi, so several further text messages folllowed pleading with me not to leave.[/quote]I have the same tolerance level problem, after a while the Philippines can get you down that's why every 59 days at the end of my first extension I go to Thailand or someplace for a vacation. You have to spend time here to really understand this.

Here's a little tip that has worked out pretty good for me, always tell a Pinay to meet you 30 minutes earlier than you really want her to meet you. If she shows up on time and text asking where you are just text her back 'wait me' she will understand, also this should be a green flag that you have probably found a good Pinay.

[quote]Anyway after about a further 7-8 minutes a taxi pulls up and I recognise Erika in the front seat. However what unfolded next was a truly horrifying experience, as what looked like a family of slum dwellers emerged from the back seat of the taxi, four siblings ranging from the age of 13 to 19. The nineteen year old was introduced to me. Short, covered in acne, wearing the standard slum dwellers outfit of baggy shorts and basketball shirt and totally ugly. The rest of the tribe looked like they needed a good bath and delousing. My first words to Erika was "what the * is going on" and she just looked forlornly at me. I was so angry at these uninvited guests that my usual tact and diplomacy evaporated and I told her Erika to take her tribe of unwashed and " @%£ * the hell out of here". I also told her that her sister resembled a pig and no way would I have sex with her, even if she paid me![/quote]What they looked like is exactly what they are. As someone else pointed out she had a lot of pressure from her sibling to share the wealth. You would have been better served to leave the pig remark out, but I understand your frustration. Remember family loyalty is a very big thing here and she felt obligated to help her sister make some money.

The extra people could have been avoided by not putting her in a taxi to begin with. You could have told her to use the same method of transportation that she used to get to the mall, probably Jeepney.

I only pay for taxis when there is no other choice. If a non bar girl insist on a taxi it should be a big red flag, she is a full blown working girl and probably not going to be a GFI. I have a friend who says only two kinds of people use taxis in Cebu, foreigners and hookers, if she insist on a taxi ask her which she is and then move on.

If you are just in a hurry for her to arrive then have her take a motorcycle taxis, or 'Habal-Habal' as they are called, it's cheaper (depending on distance) and faster than a regular taxi, but more expensive than a Jeepney.

[quote]I walked off towards the IT Park in total disgust hoping that none of the other guests had noticed that the circus was in town. Lots of text messages followed, begging for forgiveness, pleading they had no money to go home. I knew they had no money at all and no way of getting back to Mandaue so I relented ordered Erika back alone to the hotel and gave her the quickest, hardest loveless fuck she has probably had in a long time. I told her beforehand that I would only pay her 500 as punishment (I always pay 1000 for short time) for bringing her entire family and I gave her an extra 200 for the taxi. Before she left I asked her where her tribe of Neanderthals were hanging out and she told me they had gone home. That seemed strange as I knew they had no money but I did not think anymore about it. Once Erika was in the taxi and on her way I started receiving text messages from her clan asking me to tell Erika they were waiting by the IT Park.[/quote]She was probably thinking wow please punish me some more. If you are paying anyone other than bar girls more than 500p you are over paying IMHO.

[quote]I explained that she had already left for home, following which I must have had about 25 texts begging me for money to get home. Well to some of you mongers I may seem very harsh but I told them I had not wanted them to come to visit me, I had not asked them to come and visit me and it was not my problem (well apart from the one ugly sister that I had invited). Maybe it was cruel, I don't know what happened and how they got home, but no lasting harm came to them as Erika was on the phone this morning to me, texting her undying love for me.[/QUOTE]I don't think you were 'harsh' by our standards, but remember you must be very simplistic here, even then they seem to hear only what they want to hear. In this case I suspect she was with them when they were texting you begging for money.

I doubt they used that 200p for taxi, most likely they met up and jumped on a 7p Jeepney, for a grand total of 28p or 56p if it was 'two rides' as they say.

One other thing is the age, if a Pinay says she is 18 she may very well only be 17, even girls that are 25 refer to themselves as 26, I think it must be an Asian thing, they seem to think they are one at birth. So I strongly suggest you trust but verify.

This post is intended to be helpful in nature and should not be viewed as being derogatory to Mortman in any way, shape, or form. Judging from his post Mortman and I think a lot alike, and I've made a lot of the same mistakes. Mortman thank you for sharing your experience with us.

[QUOTE=Frenzy3; 1232572]Your saying works both ways. If he's getting fucked over maybe he paying to little.

Still amazes me guys spend thousands on air and hotel to come here then complain about $2[/QUOTE]Amen Frenzy. It's a great mystery to me as well. For those of us who live here, the possibility of getting scammed is one of the life's minor inconveniences. As I've said before, if you allow this stuff to get to you, you're going to wind up angry for most of the time you spend here. Unless one is somewhat masochistic, then I can't understand the motivation for seeking a state of permanent anger. I've met guys who build themselves into states of towering fury over getting ripped off for less than a dollar. Life is ineed a mystery.

GE

There is a great divide in the breath and knowledge or lack-there-of when it comes to the Philippines, and therein lies the real crux of the issue. There are several categories of guys on the Philippine board.

-Lurker who has never visited.

-Someone who plans to visit one day (maybe just a fantasy)

-Someone who spent a few days in the Philippines some years ago.

-Someone who spent a week total in the Philippines.

-Someone who spends a week a year in the Philippines.

-Someone who visits a few times a year but does not stay long.

-Someone who spends 200+ days a year in the Philippines.

-Those who live in the Philippines.

Philippine society is more like an onion. It has many layers each one digging deeper and deeper into the fabric and culture. On the surface things seem simplistic and relatively straight forward. The real problem begins when a question of culture, etiquette or ethics (western or Filipino) comes up on the board. Guys in the last two categories spend great amounts of time and effort trying to explain to the rest of the board the real reasons and motivations behind certain local actions and reactions, with little success. It's not a question of IQ or observation that's lacking, but of experience and understanding. The more time someone spends in the Philippines the more one learns.

The recent 'hot button' topics that have been labeled by some as outright scams are a perfect example of issues that go deeper. Some of these incidents are scams only on the surface but to the guys in the last two categories it's a cultural issue. No amount of explaining will convince some otherwise. Many senior members have in the past thrown up there hands in frustration and stopped posting for that very reason.

[QUOTE=Stroker Ace88; 1232902]. SNIP.

Philippine society is more like an onion. It has many layers each one digging deeper and deeper into the fabric and culture. On the surface things seem simplistic and relatively straight forward. The real problem begins when a question of culture, etiquette or ethics (western or Filipino) comes up on the board. Guys in the last two categories spend great amounts of time and effort trying to explain to the rest of the board the real reasons and motivations behind certain local actions and reactions, with little success. It's not a question of IQ or observation that's lacking, but of experience and understanding. The more time someone spends in the Philippines the more one learns.

The recent 'hot button' topics that have been labeled by some as outright scams are a perfect example of issues that go deeper. Some of these incidents are scams only on the surface but to the guys in the last two categories it's a cultural issue. No amount of explaining will convince some otherwise. Many senior members have in the past thrown up there hands in frustration and stopped posting for that very reason.[/QUOTE]Excellent analysis Stroker.

Count me in as one of the senior members who lives (and works) here and who has thrown up my hands in frustration at some of the classically erroneous information posted here based on a few days in town. The metaphor of the Philippines as an onion with lots of layers is so true.

National Book Store has a whole shelf devoted to understanding Filipino cultures, norms, folk lores, business practices etc, and I often give one of these books to any visiting foreign staff to read before they launch themselves into dealing with Filipino colleagues.

Some titles picked at random from my own personal bookshelf:

- Working with Filipinos: a cross-cultural encounter (Author: F. Landa Jocano)

- Understanding Filipino Values: a Management Approach (Author: Tomas D Andres)

- Understanding (Ilocano, Visayan, Tagalog) Values. 3 books all written by Tomas D. Andres.

For guys who genuinely want to understand what is going on around them, I suggest you indulge yourself in some self-education. Such a ploy helped me considerably to assimilate into the local environment, and to understand just what was going on in some of these b/gs, DIA profiles and FLs minds.

For the 2 week "slash and burn" monger, no need to worry about it. Just carry on full tilt, wreak havoc, and leave without a backward glance, but please don't complain on forums like ISG about how things are so very different here when you don't try to analyse why.

[QUOTE=Red Kilt; 1232914]- Working with Filipinos: a cross-cultural encounter (Author: F. Landa Jocano)

- Understanding Filipino Values: a Management Approach (Author: Tomas D Andres)

- Understanding (Ilocano, Visayan, Tagalog) Values. 3 books all written by Tomas D. Andres.[/QUOTE]Nice. On one of the other boards a few years ago, some guy posted a link to some cultural anthropology. Some european sociologists went to Philippines and lived with several tribes in the 1920's, and another group went in the 1950's. The group from the 1920's lived with a kampapangan community for about one year, then moved north and lived with a tribe east of the baguio mountain area, then went to the farthest north tip of Luzon and lived with a tribe there for a year. In their writing (some journal) , which was extensive, they described dating, marriage, divorce / separation, food gathering (farming and trading for fish) , parties, social activities, and war-making (which was not uncommon with neighboring tribes). Interestingly, they describe many of the current filipine cultural oddities that we see today:

* filipinos in all tribes like to leave decision-making up to anyone other than themselves (bahala ka. Its up to you. I can't decide, so you decide). Fortunately there was always one person or a group that would make important decisions, even if the europeans thought those decisions were terrible.

* filipinos in all tribes like to bring gifts to others, and receive gifts when others visit them (pasalubong)

* filipinos often begged repeatedly for gifts / money from any stranger passing through the village. This asking of money from the europeans was constant in every community they lived in, during their entire stay (up to one year) with the villagers. Tribal leaders would routinely ask the europeans to go to the nearest town and buy things for the tribe. While the tribe had enough resources to trade for what they wanted, the tribe attempted to get the sociologists to pay for what they wanted. Does this not sound like the many, many men who visit with their pinay's family, only to be dragged to a restaurant and made to pay for the family's meal? Or he is dragged to the mall?

* tribal filipinos have trouble saying "I don't know" when they don't know an answer. They will make up any answer before saying "I don't know."

There were several journal articles, and they were long. Very interesting reading. One tribe had interesting pre-marital customs for the young couple to be married (it all sounded like teenage drama, but for the whole tribe to watch and enjoy). Some of the things reported have disappeared as the culture advances into westernization.

I've known RK for quite a while now, and he's a seriously smart guy and a student of human (Pinoy-human) nature, so he does understand the mores, the habits and motivations inhering in local culture much better than most, and we've spent some pleasant hours together discussing the aforementioned. While I find it generally true, that the longer you stay here, particularly if you work with Filipinos, the more you understand, it's equally true that there are some aspects of the culture that I've given up even trying to understand. I've concluded that either my understanding is purely superficial or that there's no set of unifying principles to the place at all.

The reluctance, for example to engage in critical thought, to analyze personal situations, to plan for the longer range in a way that doesn't resemble wish fulfillment are all traits that I've rarely (perhaps never) observed here, even among seriously smart Filipinos. The absence of a true literary corpus, of a national musical heritage, the absence of widespread indigenous theater and the lack of poetry are lacunae that I don't think I've ever observed elsewhere. Nor can I understand the fatalism-the "other-directedness"-that seems to pervade the culture. And there's nothing in my training, my experience or my reading that has helped me to understand.

I was with a French friend who lives here, a few nights ago, and we were discussing French poetry, and then the more general subject of poetry. All of a sudden he said something like: "You know, I could never have this conversation with a Filipino. Filipinos do not 'get' poetry." And he went on to say that even his wife, who spent a decade with him in France, has any grasp of what poetry is, and why he "needs" expat friends with whom he can share his traditional cultural milieu. I feel the same. I could never survive here in a Filipino bubble, no matter how well educated, kind and well meaning my friends were. The bottom line for me, is that there's little or no intellectual engagement here, and precious little in the way of abstract thought.

The most startling characteristic of the onion is that it has no core. Just a series of layers that, once removed, reveal nothing at all. Perhaps then, the analogy of this country to the onion is more apt than I realized, because I think the same may be true of the Philippines.

GE.

GE

GE,

At the risk of soundling like a snob, I quite agree that intellectually I am not challenged here. I have been working in Philippines for 1. 5 years for a foreign company in a highly specialist technical area. Although I work with some very smart Filipinos with international working experience who I enjoy working with, I find I crave the conference calls with the head office just to engage in intellectually challenging conversation. The concepts of "what if", risk analysis and scenario based planning, I have simply given up on the attempts at conversation.

For me this converstaion came up when thinking longer term about retiring here in Philippines. After recently travelling around Philippines and talking to a few early retirees, I realised my brain would go to mush which I don't think I am ready for that.

Snow.

[QUOTE=GoodEnough; 1233069]I've known RK for quite a while now, and he's a seriously smart guy and a student of human (Pinoy-human) nature, so he does understand the mores, the habits and motivations inhering in local culture much better than most, and we've spent some pleasant hours together discussing the aforementioned. While I find it generally true, that the longer you stay here, particularly if you work with Filipinos, the more you understand, it's equally true that there are some aspects of the culture that I've given up even trying to understand. I've concluded that either my understanding is purely superficial or that there's no set of unifying principles to the place at all.

The reluctance, for example to engage in critical thought, to analyze personal situations, to plan for the longer range in a way that doesn't resemble wish fulfillment are all traits that I've rarely (perhaps never) observed here, even among seriously smart Filipinos. The absence of a true literary corpus, of a national musical heritage, the absence of widespread indigenous theater and the lack of poetry are lacunae that I don't think I've ever observed elsewhere. Nor can I understand the fatalism-the "other-directedness"-that seems to pervade the culture. And there's nothing in my training, my experience or my reading that has helped me to understand.

I was with a French friend who lives here, a few nights ago, and we were discussing French poetry, and then the more general subject of poetry. All of a sudden he said something like: "You know, I could never have this conversation with a Filipino. Filipinos do not 'get' poetry." And he went on to say that even his wife, who spent a decade with him in France, has any grasp of what poetry is, and why he "needs" expat friends with whom he can share his traditional cultural milieu. I feel the same. I could never survive here in a Filipino bubble, no matter how well educated, kind and well meaning my friends were. The bottom line for me, is that there's little or no intellectual engagement here, and precious little in the way of abstract thought.

The most startling characteristic of the onion is that it has no core. Just a series of layers that, once removed, reveal nothing at all. Perhaps then, the analogy of this country to the onion is more apt than I realized, because I think the same may be true of the Philippines.

GE.

GE[/QUOTE]

Snow Koala, I would argue that, having come to that realization, you're in a good position to retire, since you have rocognized that you will continue to need protracted, regular contact with foreigners who share similar intellectual interests. It's that perception, or should I say acting on that perception that enables me to survive and thrive here. The fact is that you can find a circle of similarly-minded friends, and once you've done that, you can preserve your brain, your sanity, and your sexual appetite. It's recognizing the limitations of the country, and figuring out how to live well within them, that enables RK, several others whom I know well and me to survive quite well and to enjoy our lives here. It depends on where you live and, to a certain extent on what you do with your time.

GE

ge rk and others who move here do not stop trying to peel the onion. pi is made up of so many different people enjoy it. i have 4 gf who live with me and the differences in experiance and iq is so varied. the highest iq is also the best looker and the one i spend more time with her and her family. the next girl is the dumbest and who's family is in and out of jail she use to work in the bars she started work when she was 14 knows the life of hard knocks. the next is the farmers daughter. the last is the cousin of one of my longest serving employees she got into it as she saw how much i pay. tell me where else you get such a mix.

point is it is a rich life of many experience and never dull. sure i have time to read forums, books and also work. most of the time expats have to drag me away from my life here.

I have used the onion analogy for a long time to explain culture.

But I start from the inside. The core of the onion is basic animal behaviour, survival, procreation.

The first time that I was in PNG, a long time ago, most of the people behaved this way.

Over time, and helped by outside influence, layers of the onion are added by society. Each layer increasingly inhibits basic animal behaviour, and inhibits our actions. As time goes by, society adds more layers, more regulations, more rules, more inhibitions.

Obviously some societies have many more layers than others.

So from my perspective, the behaviours that I observe in most filipinos are those of the hunter-gatherer culture. And there are far less layers that on those from western culture, particularly countries of British origins, who have been trapped by the Victorian ethic regarding sexuality and sexual behaviour.

The predilection of young pinays to hav children reflects an onion with many fewer layers, much closer to the core behaviours of procreation and survival.

Similarly, mating rituals in the Philippines are both less complex and more complex than those of western countries, particularly of those countries infused with the Victorian ethic.

I can talk about this stuff for a long time, because I have had a particular interest in cultures for a long time.

G

Hi Guys,

Just thought I'd put a shout out to all of the mongers I see wandering around Ayala each day. Hope you are enjoying the pickings. It is hard to walk through the centre of the Terraces without being asked by a young one if I am looking for a lady, or do I have the time etc. Initially when I strolled through looking fo rclassic hookers I was looking for high heled short skirt hotties. The talent on offer is so much more subtle.

I stopped off at TGI Fridays expecting to chat to one of the ladies wandering bye or to see if I was approached there. Ending up chatting to a drunk young lady and the rest is history. So far, three freebies in three nights. It really is a wonderful country.

Will update if I venture into the P4P scene.

AJ.

[QUOTE=Aussie Jo;1233142]three freebies in three nights.[/QUOTE]When I read this kind of comment I cringe. The girls won't lower themselves to ask for money. If one would RTFF they might learn a little about the Philippine girl mindset.