General Reports

[QUOTE=Daddy07;1425092]I suggest that both you and Mr. Bionicman man don't have the slightest idea, not even a clue, of what you are talking about. Are you a lawyer? Is Bionicman a lawyer? Can you cite the Thai law which provides that foreign expats are required to pay income taxes in Thailand? Can you cite the double taxation treaty that applies? I think your advice is reckless, sir. You are the one who is ignorant and blowing smoke out of your ass. The immigration authorities know where I am. They know what my income is. They aren't sending the Thai taxman after me. Can you tell me why? I didn't think so.[/QUOTE]You completely misunderstand my post. What I said was that you do NOT have to pay income taxes in Thailand. This is why they are not sending the tax man after you. Below is the link to a PDF containing the Taxation Convention Treaty between the United States and Thailand.

[url]http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-trty/thailand.pdf[/url]

Dang, my post was intended to let everyone know to NOT worry about this matter that PP originally brought up. There is no problem. This, and similar treaties with other countries covers the matter. Please, go back and read my original post.

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan; 1425096]Personally speaking for myself I don't give a shit what you think is what actually intelligent people recognize! If you were so fucking intelligent you would see you are making a ass out of yourself and talking all this bullshit about understanding the law. Once again please do me a favor " I dare anyone to come to try to make me pay taxes here " You better bring a army! And make sure your tax collector wear his\

Pamper![/QUOTE]I was surprised to read in one of your earlier posts on this subject that you are from the United States, which I probably means English is your first language. Until I read that, I was assuming English is not your first language and something was getting lost in the translation. Now, I don't know what to make of you and the other guys who have made this last flurry of posts.

Bionicman's post posited a plausible explanation, that there are probably double taxation treaties covering this matter. My post was confirming that Bioninman is correct.

Thailand has double taxation treaties with New Zealand, Great Britain, Australia, the USA and many other countries. Citizens of these countries are NOT required to pay income taxes in Thailand. Here for example is the treaty between Thailand and the USA.

[url]http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-trty/thailand.pdf[/url]

Relax. No one is coming after you. By treaty, you do NOT owe any taxes to the Thai government as long as you are paying taxes in the USA (or what ever country you hold citizenship).

Now if you are not paying your taxes back home, you have a problem; and as the treaty only applies to people who are paying their taxes back home, you may also be creating a problem with the Thai government. If this is the case it is probably in your best interest to seek legal advice. I'm not an attorney, but I've been dealing with them for decades on a variety of matters, including complex contracts and taxes. I appreciate their expertise and services.

This article suggests to me some ideas how the cheap charlies can save a few baht to spend on the ladies:

[url]http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/thailand-urged-explore-edible-insect-market-cope-global-122122896.html[/url]

Isn't it a turn on to think of DFK TGs who've just eaten a bug sandwich?

[QUOTE=Daddy07;1425092]I suggest that both you and Mr. Bionicman man don't have the slightest idea, not even a clue, of what you are talking about. Are you a lawyer? Is Bionicman a lawyer? Can you cite the Thai law which provides that foreign expats are required to pay income taxes in Thailand? Can you cite the double taxation treaty that applies? .[/QUOTE]And are you a lawyer or a tax advisor either?

[QUOTE=PinkPearl; 1425142]This article suggests to me some ideas how the cheap charlies can save a few baht to spend on the ladies:

[url]http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/thailand-urged-explore-edible-insect-market-cope-global-122122896.html[/url]

Isn't it a turn on to think of DFK TGs who've just eaten a bug sandwich?[/QUOTE]No biggie if that happened. Just a cultural difference. My GF loves the bamboo worms and fried grasshoppers, but blanches at the thought of eating raw broccoli. :D

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch;1425111]My first post was very clear and explicit. Great Britain, Australia, New Zealand, the USA and many other countries have double taxation treaties with Thailand, so citizens of those countries are NOT required to pay income taxes in Thailand. I said NOTHING regarding the visa process.[/QUOTE]I know that you said nothing about the visa process and since you apparently think that my reference of it is irrelevant, I say you know nothing about living here.

[QUOTE=Crazy4Thai;1425341]I know that you said nothing about the visa process and since you apparently think that my reference of it is irrelevant, I say you know nothing about living here.[/QUOTE]I did not say the visa process is irrelevant. I wrote,"I said NOTHING regarding the visa process." Again, you completely miss construe what I wrote. My initial post only commented on the existence of treaties between Thailand and other countries that ensure citizens of those countries are nor obligated to pay Thai income tax on income that is being taxed by their home country.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch; 1425113]You completely misunderstand my post. What I said was that you do NOT have to pay income taxes in Thailand. This is why they are not sending the tax man after you. Below is the link to a PDF containing the Taxation Convention Treaty between the United States and Thailand.

[url]http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-trty/thailand.pdf[/url][/QUOTE]No, Paul, it is you who completely misunderstands MY post because you are still clinging to the nonsense that Bionicman spoon fed you. It's like the blind leading the blind because neither one of you knows what you are talking about, and as a result you both are misleading the membership here about a legal matter neither of you are qualified to intelligently discuss.

The reason why I and other Thailand expats don't pay Thailand income taxes has nothing whatsoever to do with that tax treaty you keep bloviating about. It has to do with our immigration status, but you don't seem to accept that explanation favoring Bionicman's nonsense instead. I am in Thailand on a non-immigrant retirement visa which means that I am not an immigrant or resident of Thailand, but only a GUEST in the country like I explained to you before. Guests such as tourists and retirement expats are not subject to paying Thailand income taxes because our income is solely derived from our home countries.

Now, on the other hand, if I became a Thai citizen, or changed my immigration status to resident; got a job here or established a business generating income here, then of course, I would be subject to paying Thailand income taxes. This is where your precious tax treaty would come into play. It provides that I would not be subjected to double taxation. If I'm paying Thai income taxes on income from Thailand I would't have to pay the same taxes on the same income to the USA government; and income I made from the USA could not be double taxed in both Thailand and the USA

Do you get it now?

And by the way, Bionicman, since you ask, yes I am in fact a lawyer and have been an attorney for the last 42 years if that makes any difference to you.

[QUOTE=Paul Kausch; 1425119]I was surprised to read in one of your earlier posts on this subject that you are from the United States, which I probably means English is your first language. Until I read that, I was assuming English is not your first language and something was getting lost in the translation. Now, I don't know what to make of you and the other guys who have made this last flurry of posts.

Bionicman's post posited a plausible explanation, that there are probably double taxation treaties covering this matter. My post was confirming that Bioninman is correct.

Thailand has double taxation treaties with New Zealand, Great Britain, Australia, the USA and many other countries. Citizens of these countries are NOT required to pay income taxes in Thailand. Here for example is the treaty between Thailand and the USA.

[url]http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-trty/thailand.pdf[/url]

Relax. No one is coming after you. By treaty, you do NOT owe any taxes to the Thai government as long as you are paying taxes in the USA (or what ever country you hold citizenship).

Now if you are not paying your taxes back home, you have a problem; and as the treaty only applies to people who are paying their taxes back home, you may also be creating a problem with the Thai government. If this is the case it is probably in your best interest to seek legal advice. I'm not an attorney, but I've been dealing with them for decades on a variety of matters, including complex contracts and taxes. I appreciate their expertise and services.[/QUOTE]I'll let you get in the last jab if you like? Just a reminder to you before I leave this subject? This topic and this forum check out the rules isn't about grammer or writing! I'll be the first to state although I'm from the USA it doesn't mean I got a " LiLLY WHITE EDUCATION " like yourself. I don't blame or resent the USA I have only myself to blame! People like you can't win a argument give them a little bit of slack and the race comes into it. People like you can't help themselves you are basically a hidden racist!

You might want to leave Bionicman out of this he isn't going to help you because the foot up your ass was placed there by yourself! I like everyone else including President Obama, VP Joe Bide, Apple will do what it takes to pay as little taxes or nothing at all. As for seeking seeking legal action or advice or creating a problem with the Thai government I have in the past and I'm done with their legal system now I do what I've always done " do my best and go down the right road as long as possible but here it is a eye for a eye as far as I'm concern " you can do what you like pay taxes and kiss lots of ass like you have been doing it seems to work for you!

This has nothing to do with complex contracts or taxes since we can't be as intelligent as you or a well educated American like yourself that holds a first class citizenship like yourself. See I am a American born and raise in the USA which is a vast country not all Lilly White with flowers where you came from. Get in your last word cite all laws and such but I'll do you a favor and end my portion here because you don't want to go further with me for your own sake. Take it as you like I just hope your first rate education gets you to understand what I just said. K. I. S. S. Keep it simple stupid!

[QUOTE=Daddy07; 1425360]The reason why I and other Thailand expats don't pay Thailand income taxes has nothing whatsoever to do with that tax treaty you keep bloviating about. It has to do with our immigration status, but you don't seem to accept that explanation favoring Bionicman's nonsense instead. I am in Thailand on a non-immigrant retirement visa which means that I am not an immigrant or resident of Thailand, but only a GUEST in the country like I explained to you before. Guests such as tourists and retirement expats are not subject to paying Thailand income taxes because our income is solely derived from our home countries.

Now, on the other hand, if I became a Thai citizen, or changed my immigration status to resident; got a job here or established a business generating income here, then of course, I would be subject to paying Thailand income taxes. This is where your precious tax treaty would come into play. It provides that I would not be subjected to double taxation. If I'm paying Thai income taxes on income from Thailand I would't have to pay the same taxes on the same income to the USA government; and income I made from the USA could not be double taxed in both Thailand and the USA[/QUOTE]Thank you for posting. Some of the recent posts have been confusing or not made any sense at all. I have discussed various visa options over the last year with the Thai Consulate in the US, but did not discuss the tax issue because I didn't think it was an issue until I started reading some of these posts. Also I have only recently given serious consideration to the retirement visa. Good to hear from someone who is actually there on a retirement visa.

[QUOTE=Daddy07; 1425360]No, Paul, it is you who completely misunderstands MY post because you are still clinging to the nonsense that Bionicman spoon fed you. It's like the blind leading the blind because neither one of you knows what you are talking about, and as a result you both are misleading the membership here about a legal matter neither of you are qualified to intelligently discuss.

The reason why I and other Thailand expats don't pay Thailand income taxes has nothing whatsoever to do with that tax treaty you keep bloviating about. It has to do with our immigration status, but you don't seem to accept that explanation favoring Bionicman's nonsense instead. I am in Thailand on a non-immigrant retirement visa which means that I am not an immigrant or resident of Thailand, but only a GUEST in the country like I explained to you before. Guests such as tourists and retirement expats are not subject to paying Thailand income taxes because our income is solely derived from our home countries.

Now, on the other hand, if I became a Thai citizen, or changed my immigration status to resident; got a job here or established a business generating income here, then of course, I would be subject to paying Thailand income taxes. This is where your precious tax treaty would come into play. It provides that I would not be subjected to double taxation. If I'm paying Thai income taxes on income from Thailand I would't have to pay the same taxes on the same income to the USA government; and income I made from the USA could not be double taxed in both Thailand and the USA.

Daddy07,

Wow! All I can say is I'm a American and didn't get a first rate education and would never insult another person that the reason my point isn't valid is because I can't write as well like you. I'm not a lawyer but living here and simply reading the Thai law I could see that it doesn't apply as noted in the law!

Now why can't smart ass figure that out? Oh wait lets here what he has to say now? I'm sure when he gets through with kissing all the ass in his office along with the all the Thai asses he will find the time to go on Google and come up with another stupid reason just so he could be right. No wonder he is here working in Thailand who the hell wants another kiss ass in the USA

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan; 1425367]

[QUOTE=Daddy07; 1425360]No, Paul, it is you who completely misunderstand MY post because. /QUOTE]Have only read the above post, not the previous to-ing and fro-ing. LBM seems to be talking sense. Am I right when I say, looks like if you are in Thailand to SPEND money your good to go. If your in Thailand to MAKE money, then there are tax considerations?

[QUOTE=Daddy07; 1425360]No, Paul, it is you who completely misunderstands MY post because you are still clinging to the nonsense that Bionicman spoon fed you.[/QUOTE]Daddy07,

I'm not trying to pick a fight. I have a real interest in this issue and want to fully understand the tax implications of retiring in Thailand.

What caught my attention was the Sunbelt Legal answer to a question from a person who is living in Thailand on a "retirement stay," which I took to mean a retirement visa. I noted the similarities between Bionicman's post and the Sunbelt Legal answer. I understood Bionicman was suggesting this was a matter dealt with through double taxation treaties, something I have some familiarity with. His post sounded reasonable to me.

Now you also write:

[QUOTE=Daddy07; 1425360]The reason why I and other Thailand expats don't pay Thailand income taxes has nothing whatsoever to do with that tax treaty you keep bloviating about. It has to do with our immigration status, but you don't seem to accept that explanation favoring Bionicman's nonsense instead. I am in Thailand on a non-immigrant retirement visa which means that I am not an immigrant or resident of Thailand, but only a GUEST in the country like I explained to you before. Guests such as tourists and retirement expats are not subject to paying Thailand income taxes because our income is solely derived from our home countries.[/QUOTE]I am having difficulty reconciling what you are saying with the Sunbelt Legal answer to this question. Again, I am not trying to be argumentative. I just want to understand the issue. Their answer to the retired person living in Thailand seems to completely contradict what you are saying.

Sunbelt Legal states:

[I]1."According the Revenue Code anyone who stays in Thailand for a total of 180 days a tax year are deemed a resident of Thailand for tax purposes and must file Thai taxes if they are earning income either domestically or overseas."[/I]

They seem to be saying this is a tax issue and has nothing to do with the type of visa one has been issued; and they unequivocally state that everyone who stays in Thailand for over 180 days a year is required to file a tax return, even if their income is from overseas. Of course the tax return could show one owes no taxes to the Thai government.

[I]2."According to the Revenue Code under Section 40 funds like gratuity and pension will also be considered as income."[/I]

So they also state Thailand treats the proceeds from a pension as income.

[I]3."Has this funding been taxed at your home country prior to the transferring into Thailand? If no, then you will have to file (pay) taxes in Thailand. If yes, you will need to check to see if your home country has entered into a Double Taxation Treaty with Thailand. If you country has entered into a Double Taxation Treaty with Thailand, then you will not have to pay taxes in Thailand."[/I]

Now this seems to be the crux of the matter. They say, if you are paying taxes in your home country and it has a double taxation treaty with Thailand, you will owe no income tax in Thailand.

I understand Sunbelt Legal Asia is a Bangkok based Thai law firm with in house accountants who have expertise in Thai tax law.

My question is: who is right? I hope you are because that will make things simpler. However, I have few expectations that tax matters will ever be simple.

I took interest in this issue because Thailand is one of several countries I am considering living in when I retire in a few years. Tax implications are an important consideration for me. When PinkPearl first raised the issue he wrote,"Retiring in LOS is no good if you want to avoid paying Thai income taxes on non Thai income (such as a pension)" etc. This didn't seem right and I made a mental note to be sure to discuss this matter with a knowledgeable attorney at the appropriate time. When I ran across the Q&A in the legal section of Stickman's article I thought it would be useful to post the information.

Paul

[QUOTE=Hobbyist2;1425366]Thank you for posting. Some of the recent posts have been confusing or not made any sense at all. I have discussed various visa options over the last year with the Thai Consulate in the US, but did not discuss the tax issue because I didn't think it was an issue until I started reading some of these posts. Also I have only recently given serious consideration to the retirement visa. Good to hear from someone who is actually there on a retirement visa.[/QUOTE]Hobbyist2,

You can read for yourself Sunbelt Legal Asia's answer, compare it to what some forum members are saying and draw your own conclusions. As for me, when the time comes I am going to talk to a good Thai law firm with expertise in Thai tax law.

Once again here is the complete text to the Sunbelt Legal Q&A:

[I]Question 1: This is my first year on retirement stay in Thailand as a single man. No earning income activity here or abroad. Is it legal not to file an income tax here? If yes, can I obtain an official document to confirm it. Thanks.

Sunbelt Asia Legal Advisers responds: It's difficult to get too specific on the limited information but a broad answer would be that firstly it would depend on the length of your stay in Thailand. According the Revenue Code anyone who stays in Thailand for a total of 180 days a tax year are deemed a resident of Thailand for tax purposes and must file Thai taxes if they are earning income either domestically or overseas.

You will then need to consider the type of funding used to apply for your retirement visa (your savings, your gratuity or your pension). According to the Revenue Code under Section 40 funds like gratuity and pension will also be considered as income.

Has this funding been taxed at your home country prior to the transferring into Thailand? If no, then you will have to file (pay) taxes in Thailand. If yes, you will need to check to see if your home country has entered into a Double Taxation Treaty with Thailand. If your country has entered into a Double Taxation Treaty with Thailand, then you will not have to pay taxes in Thailand, but if there is no double taxation treaty, whether your source had paid tax on the transfer funds back at your home country, you would still need to file for Thai tax.

Sunbelt Asia Legal Advisors has an experienced accounting team, well versed in handling expat tax issues. We can provide assistance in helping you determine if you owe taxes or not. [/I]

Here is the link to the Stickman Weekly column containing this Q&A. The Sunbelt Legal Asia section is towards the end of the column.

[url]http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/StickmanWeeklyColumn2013/Timeless-Patpong.htm[/url]

Good luck.

Paul

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan; 1425362]I'll let you get in the last jab if you like? Just a reminder to you before I leave this subject? This topic and this forum check out the rules isn't about grammer or writing! I'll be the first to state although I'm from the USA it doesn't mean I got a " LiLLY WHITE EDUCATION " like yourself. I don't blame or resent the USA I have only myself to blame! People like you can't win a argument give them a little bit of slack and the race comes into it. People like you can't help themselves you are basically a hidden racist!

You might want to leave Bionicman out of this he isn't going to help you because the foot up your ass was placed there by yourself! I like everyone else including President Obama, VP Joe Bide, Apple will do what it takes to pay as little taxes or nothing at all. As for seeking seeking legal action or advice or creating a problem with the Thai government I have in the past and I'm done with their legal system now I do what I've always done " do my best and go down the right road as long as possible but here it is a eye for a eye as far as I'm concern " you can do what you like pay taxes and kiss lots of ass like you have been doing it seems to work for you!

This has nothing to do with complex contracts or taxes since we can't be as intelligent as you or a well educated American like yourself that holds a first class citizenship like yourself. See I am a American born and raise in the USA which is a vast country not all Lilly White with flowers where you came from. Get in your last word cite all laws and such but I'll do you a favor and end my portion here because you don't want to go further with me for your own sake. Take it as you like I just hope your first rate education gets you to understand what I just said. K. I. S. S. Keep it simple stupid![/QUOTE]Really? PK mentions grammar and now he's a hidden racist? WTF? Methinks thou doth protest too much. Seems to me you brought up racism and race. Perhaps you have an inferiority complex?

I will say I don't understand the moderation of this thread. I make a sarcastic comment to a member and my posts get nuked and I get a warning. You make threats against other members and nothing?

But that is neither here, nor there. Let's leave race out of this. You really don't want to go there.