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[QUOTE=AxelHeyst;3086658]to management; please turn this thread off! It is not doing anyone any good including the ISG.[/QUOTE]This thread was started for Monkeypaw to vent and for those to vent back at Monkeypaw.
As an Admin it makes their job easier not to have to monitor one single thread as closely unless something really vile or illegal was posted.
[URL]https://mekongmigration.org/labourlaw/images/labourlaw/pdf/thailand/49%20Prostitution%20Prevention%20and%20Suppression%20Act%201996.pdf[/URL]
In the history of ISG no one has ever produced a legal opinion from a member of the the bar that says: [I]Prostitution is legal in Thailand[/I].
[QUOTE=EihTooms;3086602]1. It is the [B]evidence[/B] of prostitution the police are looking to suppress. Remember the Act's definition of prostitution being [b]in a promiscuous manner[/b]?[/QUOTE][B]EihTooms[/B] is hanging his entire agreement on: [B]in a promiscuous manner[/B] while leaving out the following vital legal facts:
The Thai legal system does not provide a clear definition of the phrase [B]in a promiscuous manner[/B] within the Prevention and Suppression of Prostitution Act of 1996. The Act defines prostitution as sexual acts performed to gratify another person's desires in a "promiscuous manner" in return for money or benefit. Legal sources explicitly state that [I]no clear definition[/I] of "promiscuous manner" is provided in the statute. Similarly, the phrase [I]"open and shameless manner"[/I] used regarding solicitation is also not clearly defined. Consequently, the interpretation of these terms relies on judicial discretion and the specific circumstances of each case, such as whether the acts are causing a public nuisance or occurring in established prostitution establishments.
[B]EihTooms[/B] is welcome to correct me on this.
[QUOTE=EihTooms;3086602]2. The police outright qualify, literally and in the plainest language posdible, that they are looking for the [B]illegal[/B] versions of prostitution. [/QUOTE]But wait, wait, if there are [B]illegal[/B] versions of prostitution how can prostitution be legal in Thailand?
[QUOTE=EihTooms;3086602]Your May 2018 linked report about a sex party cited NO case of anyone there being arrested or fined for the [b]non criminal version of prostitution[/b] even after the police sting came up with evidence of sex in exchange for money being offered to them.[/QUOTE]So according to you there is both legal and [B]illegal[/B] prostitution in Thailand. If that is the case how can the following assertion be wrong?
[QUOTE]In the history of ISG no one has ever produced a legal opinion from a member of the the bar that says: [i]Prostitution is legal in Thailand[/i][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=EihTooms;3086602]All of those prostitution-related behaviors are specifically cited in plain language in the Code and / or the Act as crimes punishable by fine and / or imprisonment.[/QUOTE]Once again proving there is [B]illegal[/B] prostitution in Thailand. No where in the law is the term [I]prostitution-related behaviors[/I] used. That term has been made up by EihTooms to bolster his argument that [B]prostitution is legal in Thailand[/B].
[QUOTE=EihTooms;3086602]As far as your misunderstanding of what constitutes a "prostitution establishment" [/QUOTE][URL]https://mekongmigration.org/labourlaw/images/labourlaw/pdf/thailand/49%20Prostitution%20Prevention%20and%20Suppression%20Act%201996.pdf[/URL]
[QUOTE]Prostitution Establishment means the place or premises [u]arranged for prostitution or allowed for prostitution[/u], and [u]shall include the place used for making contact[/u] or procuring another person for prostitution;[/QUOTE]No misunderstanding: [B]allowed for prostitution, place used for making contact for prostitution[/B] Read the definition in the law for yourselves my fellow [B]International Tricks[/B]. It needs no interpretation. The term can include [B]go-go bars, massage parlors, karaoke venues, and brothels, Bars[/B] where sex work occurs, even if the business is ostensibly licensed under the [B]Entertainment Places Act.[/B].
[U]Law for weed shops is a different statute all together.[/U]
[B]The Protection and Promotion of Thai Traditional Medicine Knowledge Act B.E. 2542 (1999)[/B] governs the flower, while the [B]Narcotics Code B.E. 2522 (1979) regulates high-THC extracts[/B].
[U]Defamation is a completely different statue also[/U]
Thailand's defamation laws are primarily codified in Sections 326 to 333 of the Thai Criminal Code, which classify defamation as a criminal offense.
[B]Period. Full Stop. [/B]
[U]It should be noted[/U]
I think the law is written in such a way to give the [I]controlling legal authorities[/I] quite a bit of discretion when it comes to [U]street enforcement[/U] (selective). No one has ever presented in this forum with charging papers. So all knowledge about the legal process is second hand and is a interpretation of an interpretation in published news articles.
[U]The Cmdr's Take[/U]
The 1996 Act makes prostitution illegal in Thailand, but what it actually criminalizes is a narrow set of activities. Private, consensual sex work between adults is not a criminal offense under the Act, and there is no general offense of buying or selling sex between consenting adults. The law's practical effect is to regulate the infrastructure of the sex industry rather than to prohibit the act itself and even that enforcement is selective.
Just my 2 cents.
I'm not supporting anyone side but this might be food for thought!
I'm not for creating or shutting down threads, ISG has gone through enough of these request! I always say these days if one really truely believe opinion then one should stick with that belief and let it go one can read, ***** they ***** back they don't agree, or they can like the majority just let them *****. This constant need to shut down thread or add one has to only look at the start up page and wonder why there are so many dead threads. If you don't like something as noted use the ignore or just don't respond personally I always felt using Ignore is for cowards. Today we have lots of it PC, Woke, Keyboard cowards that is what Internet has become.
When it comes to Prositution I see people cited Laws etc, yet we all know from visiting or living here what this government is all about and how it is run, I see no point in citing anything if it isn't going to be enforced just like 99% of laws on the books here! First, how this government is funded there isn't enough people to monitor the country if you don't believe me in Bangkok go up Governement road, take a look at many of these offices, names sound huge go inside, you at best might find two people running a department. This country is run on one principal " Honor system " reason there are so many Temples, and you know what the honor system doesn't work! There is always enough to break the rules here and when they do, go to the Temple, ask for forgiveless and go right back outside and do it all over again, Monks know it reason why religion is the biggest money maker in the world especially here.
Daily events read a story like kids being burn to death, an uproar is made news now thousands of buses being inspected news everywhere but rarely we hear the result, logic would put 2 plus 2 together think with only 2 inspectors how the hell was thousands of buses inspected, this is an example of how the entired country is run! Biggest example is accidents each day, month you see a photo op how they are cracking down yet it is the same stuff each day. They claim millions at the airport yet stories how bad the economy is doing?
The list goes on so when it comes to Prositution whether legal or not! Ask yourself why you are here! Prior, was it preventing anyone here not to come to Thailand! I seriously doubt anyone had a 2nd thought about the conversation before booking their trip. When they landed, they dropped their bags at Nana, shower out they went to get some never was whether they should or shouldn't ever enter their minds as to it being legal.
I can speak for myself only but I'm sure 90% if not more never had second thought if they came would no one is walking down anywhere in Thailand where you can get pussy is looking over their shoulders that they are being arrested if that was the case there would be zero stories even from those who cited it to be illegal. Personally, the topic isn't RELEVANT WHATSOEVER!
Even for those for or against are going to sleep, waking up, tourist or expat without hesitation getting pussy, going bareback, nutting, underpaying, overpaying, living it up no one cares deep inside whether it is legal or not or we wouldn't be having the conversation! You got to be the most unlucky person to ever be arrested for such a act here and if you do expect to be the biggest joke of all times!
[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;3086780]Just my 2 cents.
I'm not supporting anyone side but this might be food for thought!...[/QUOTE]Nice rant.
[QUOTE=SubCmdr;3086768][URL]https://mekongmigration.org/labourlaw/images/labourlaw/pdf/thailand/49%20Prostitution%20Prevention%20and%20Suppression%20Act%201996.pdf[/URL]
In the history of ISG no one has ever produced a legal opinion from a member of the the bar that says: [I]Prostitution is legal in Thailand[/I].
[B]EihTooms[/B] is hanging his entire agreement on: [B]in a promiscuous manner[/B] while leaving out the following vital legal facts:
The Thai legal system does not provide a clear definition of the phrase [B]in a promiscuous manner[/B] within the Prevention and Suppression of Prostitution Act of 1996. The Act defines prostitution as sexual acts performed to gratify another person's desires in a "promiscuous manner" in return for money or benefit. Legal sources explicitly state that [I]no clear definition[/I] of "promiscuous manner" is provided in the statute. Similarly, the phrase [I]"open and shameless manner"[/I] used regarding solicitation is also not clearly defined. Consequently, the interpretation of these terms relies on judicial discretion and the specific circumstances of each case, such as whether the acts are causing a public nuisance or occurring in established prostitution establishments.
[B]EihTooms[/B] is welcome to correct me on this.
But wait, wait, if there are [B]illegal[/B] versions of prostitution how can prostitution be legal in Thailand?
So according to you there is both legal and [B]illegal[/B] prostitution in Thailand. If that is the case how can the following assertion be wrong?
Once again proving there is [B]illegal[/B] prostitution in Thailand. No where in the law is the term [I]prostitution-related behaviors[/I] used. That term has been made up by EihTooms to bolster his argument that [B]prostitution is legal in Thailand[/B].
[URL]https://mekongmigration.org/labourlaw/images/labourlaw/pdf/thailand/49%20Prostitution%20Prevention%20and%20Suppression%20Act%201996.pdf[/URL]
No misunderstanding: [B]allowed for prostitution, place used for making contact for prostitution[/B] Read the definition in the law for yourselves my fellow [B]International Tricks[/B]. It needs no interpretation. The term can include [B]go-go bars, massage parlors, karaoke venues, and brothels, Bars[/B] where sex work occurs, even if the business is ostensibly licensed under the [B]Entertainment Places Act.[/B].
[U]Law for weed shops is a different statute all together.[/U]
[B]The Protection and Promotion of Thai Traditional Medicine Knowledge Act B.E. 2542 (1999)[/B] governs the flower, while the [B]Narcotics Code B.E. 2522 (1979) regulates high-THC extracts[/B].
[U]Defamation is a completely different statue also[/U]
Thailand's defamation laws are primarily codified in Sections 326 to 333 of the Thai Criminal Code, which classify defamation as a criminal offense.
[B]Period. Full Stop. [/B]
[U]It should be noted[/U]
I think the law is written in such a way to give the [I]controlling legal authorities[/I] quite a bit of discretion when it comes to [U]street enforcement[/U] (selective). No one has ever presented in this forum with charging papers. So all knowledge about the legal process is second hand and is a interpretation of an interpretation in published news articles.
[U]The Cmdr's Take[/U]
The 1996 Act makes prostitution illegal in Thailand, but what it actually criminalizes is a narrow set of activities. Private, consensual sex work between adults is not a criminal offense under the Act, and there is no general offense of buying or selling sex between consenting adults. The law's practical effect is to regulate the infrastructure of the sex industry rather than to prohibit the act itself and even that enforcement is selective.[/QUOTE]You know why these and other documents provide definitions of the terms they are going to use over and over again in the texts, right? Well, just in case, here is the reason, so they don't have to clumsily repeat the qualifiers "in a promiscuous manner", "openly and shamelessly in a public place causing a nuisance to the public" and so on over and over and over again every time they include the word "Prostitution" in a sentence in order to continually remind us what THEY mean when they mention the word Prostitution or Solicitation or regarding an Establishment where THEIR definition of Prostitution is offered or allowed.
If they had ever meant it to be the mere act of consenting adults agreeing to exchange sex for money, money for sex ANYWHERE or then fulfilling that agreement ANYWHERE in private, they would have said so in their definitions of those terms with no qualifiers at all.
But they didn't.
And neither did that attorney in Thailand whose text and video explanation of the Thai law on the subject you posted previously and suggested everyone read and watch. He too judiciously included the qualifier "in a promiscuous manner" for the topic.
That qualifier for the Act's definition for what THEY mean when they say Prostitution follows through into all of the Sections including the concept of a "Prostitution Establishment".
A shop on Sukhumvit Road or Asoke where weed is advertised and sold commercially to anyone and everyone who walks in the door with the proper prescription in a promiscuous manner and regardless how the sales clerk personally feels about it or personally thinks of the customer would be a "weed selling establishment". The same principle would apply but without a prescription required to the various "hamburger establishments", "t-shirt establishments" or "smartphone establishments" in the neighborhood.
According to the plain language definition of Prositution in the Act, owning, operating, managing, working in or patronizing a venue that offers or allows the commercial sale of sex in a promiscuous manner or hawks it openly and shamelessly in a public place as one can sell or buy weed, hamburgers or smartphones in shops regardless how the sales staff personally feel about it or about the customer is illegal.
If you encounter an easily publicly observable venue in Thailand that openly and shamelessly advertises and sells sex for money as promicuously as McDs advertizes and sells hamburgers to anyone and everyone who walks through their door you probabily should avoid arrest and penalty by declining to enter and patronizing the place. I have never encountered such a venue in Thailand.
However, I have encountered many venues in Thailand where people gather and customers enter to buy a drink or food, watch young ladies dance on stage, get a massage, etc and even where those offerings are overtly advertised by signage and the staff hawking them out front.
And whatever happens between consenting adults inside or outside those venues that does not conform to the Code and Act's plain language definition of Prostitution is of zero interest or concern to the police and justice department.
Thai law has no opinion, Citation or Section addressing what consenting adults discreetly agree to do of a sexual nature and fulfill in private quarters, money involved or no money involved.
My take and so far the take of every known police and media news report of an arrest "for Prostitution" in Thailand is the Prevention and Suppression of Prostitution Act of 1996 makes THEIR definition of Prostitution illegal, it is THEIR definition of it that the media news reports are referring to, the definition as stated in its definition of terms, "in a promiscuous manner" and not what anyone else in the world thinks the definition of it is and Thai law has no opinion nor applies any citation or Section to the personal, non promiscuous agreement between or among consenting adults to exchange sex for money or money for sex and / or to fulfill that agreement in private quarters.
[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;3086780] If you don't like something as noted use the ignore or just don't respond personally I always felt using Ignore is for cowards.[/QUOTE]Agreed! I would also add that I think the [I]ignore[/I] it is for the weak minded among us. I do same same you. I don't have anyone on ignore. Besides, if you don't log in the ignore function does not work. And if someone is quoted that you have on ignore you still see it. It makes me laugh at the people that announce they have someone on ignore but they file no trip reports.
[B]ROTFLMAO![/B]
I am not sure why others are always trying to shut down input to the site. Everyone is welcome to do what they like. But they should not be trying to cut off information to others. Besides, this is a popular thread here in Thailand. Does ISG a lot of good. Or else The Administrator would not allow it.
[QUOTE=EihTooms;3086802]You know why these and other documents provide definitions of the terms they are going to use over and over again in the texts, right? Well, just in case, here is the reason, so they don't have to clumsily repeat the qualifiers "in a promiscuous manner", "openly and shamelessly in a public place causing a nuisance to the public" and so on over and over and over again every time they include the word "Prostitution" in a sentence in order to continually remind us what THEY mean when they mention the word Prostitution or Solicitation or regarding an Establishment where THEIR definition of Prostitution is offered or allowed.
If they had ever meant it to be the mere act of consenting adults agreeing to exchange sex for money, money for sex ANYWHERE or then fulfilling that agreement ANYWHERE in private, they would have said so in their definitions of those terms with no qualifiers at all.
But they didn't.
And neither did that attorney in Thailand whose text and video explanation of the Thai law on the subject you posted previously and suggested everyone read and watch. He too judiciously included the qualifier "in a promiscuous manner" for the topic.
That qualifier for the Act's definition for what THEY mean when they say Prostitution follows through into all of the Sections including the concept of a "Prostitution Establishment"...[/QUOTE]Wow after all this time, you are still on the same rant about prostitution be legal in Thailand. Thought you would have given up by now. Anyways, good to see you are still alive and kicking Tooms.
[QUOTE=EverythingThai;3086909]Wow after all this time, you are still on the same rant about prostitution be legal in Thailand. Thought you would have given up by now. Anyways, good to see you are still alive and kicking Tooms.[/QUOTE]Yep Don Eih Quixote still jousting at Windmills.
[QUOTE]It is not the responsibility of knights errant to discover whether the afflicted, the enchained and the oppressed whom they encounter on the road are reduced to these circumstances and suffer this distress for their vices, or for their virtues: the knight's sole responsibility is to succour them as people in need, having eyes only for their sufferings, not for their misdeeds. -[b]Don Quixote[/b][/QUOTE]Welcome back my brother!
[QUOTE=HorseTrader;3086794]Nice rant.[/QUOTE]Thanks, it is simple!
I read comprehend the thread says " Rant " II open, read, ignore or respond! Nothing too it!
Many of these threads were created because there is always one that gets tired of it because it doesn't fit into the strict definition of the thread, they complain next thing you know a new thread. My motto people just relax and sooner or later it goes away. Every thread poster talks about looks, price, to me after all these years let it go we can only control so much.
Rants was created just for that purpose it is one of the best threads, everyone right to rant serves a purpose good or bad I find a message that pin point what the poster is about one doesn't have to meet them. No matter how well written or bad the opinion I gain a sense of the writer. Life is good ! LOL
Impossible to know anything about anybody online. Online anyone can be anybody. You don't really know jack about a person until you meet them in person. Online people show you what they want to see. How do I know this to be true? If you could really know a person by interactions online, the entire Bangkok / Pattaya Nightlife wouldn't exist. No need to enter prostitution establishments. No need to pay bar fines. No need to buy Lady Drinks. I have shown over and over again that using online methods like [U]Thai Friendly[/U] provides way better value at lower cost. But yet, we have people for whom the online method does not work. Why? People want to interact with other people in real life. That is how you can really get an idea of how your prostitute will behave. You get the chance to feel her out (and up) and size her up, while buying her drinks in the prostitution establishment.
[QUOTE=SubCmdr;3086708][b]This back and forth on ISG is the play world. Don't fuck around and find out how the real world works![/b][/QUOTE]In the real world, no one would talk to another man in person the way these keyboard warriors pump out their [B]mail bovine excrement[/B] while sitting safely in front of their screens behind their keyboard. Those of us who are familiar with the use of violence to resolve conflict understand this. Others, well they need to stay in online world. Because in the real world they would find out that their [I]mouth is writing checks that their ass can't cash[/I]
[QUOTE=EverythingThai;3086909]Wow after all this time, you are still on the same rant about prostitution be legal in Thailand. Thought you would have given up by now. Anyways, good to see you are still alive and kicking Tooms.[/QUOTE]I don't know if you noticed but the facts had to be revived more than ever recently thanks in part to a poster quoting your old arguments about it. LOL.
As soon as the Thai Penal Code and the Prevention and Suppression of Prostitution Act authors change their definition of the version of Prostitution they deem to be illegal and no other version of it and the police start arresting sex workers and customers for discreetly agreeing to the mere exchange of sex for money or money for sex and fulfilling that agreement in private quarters in a non promiscuous manner and not openly and shamelessly in a public place causing a nuisance to the public, I will then stop doing my part to point out on this ISG Forum that no one needs to worry as regards criminal implications about being a fugitive of justice on the run from the law by offering and providing sex for money or offering and paying money for sex as a consenting adult in Thailand.
Until then, somebody really ought to point out on ISG the gross error being made when other posters insist what is normally being done regarding P4P in Thailand is illegal when it isn't, a crime when it isn't, subject to arrest and punishment when it isn't, the obvious implication by that false assertion being if one wishes to avoid those problems they should find a different source of income and a different country in which to monger. I don't mind being one of those ISG posters whenever necessary. Why not? It's easy to do since all the facts are on my side of the issue. LOL.
Thanks for the Hi and welcome back to these threads as well!
[QUOTE=BananaBoi;3086748]This thread was started for Monkeypaw to vent and for those to vent back at Monkeypaw.
As an Admin it makes their job easier not to have to monitor one single thread as closely unless something really vile or illegal was posted.[/QUOTE]Threads like this and many others show why many mongers are best avoided. Paid pussies are magnets for nutters.
[QUOTE=EihTooms;3086952]I don't know if you noticed but the facts had to be revived more than ever recently thanks in part to a poster quoting your old arguments about it. LOL.
As soon as the Thai Penal Code and the Prevention and Suppression of Prostitution Act authors change their definition of the version of Prostitution they deem to be illegal and no other version of it and the police start arresting sex workers and customers for discreetly agreeing to the mere exchange of sex for money or money for sex and fulfilling that agreement in private quarters in a non promiscuous manner and not openly and shamelessly in a public place causing a nuisance to the public, I will then stop doing my part to point out on this ISG Forum that no one needs to worry as regards criminal implications about being a fugitive of justice on the run from the law by offering and providing sex for money or offering and paying money for sex as a consenting adult in Thailand.
Until then, somebody really ought to point out on ISG the gross error being made when other posters insist what is normally being done regarding P4P in Thailand is illegal when it isn't, a crime when it isn't, subject to arrest and punishment when it isn't, the obvious implication by that false assertion being if one wishes to avoid those problems they should find a different source of income and a different country in which to monger. I don't mind being one of those ISG posters whenever necessary.[/QUOTE]Tooms, thanks for the welcome back. I don't want to beat a dead horse here, but honestly, you guys are arguing about something completely different. You need to look at it like this. Prostitution by legal definition is illegal in Thailand. What you are arguing is that to consenting adults can have a monetary transaction for sex, and that in itself may or may not fall under the legal definition of prostitution. It depends on the circumstances. So, instead of arguing whether prostitution is illegal or not in Thailand, you too should be analyzing whether or not certain activities that all of the guys here, including me, fall under the legal definition of prostitution or not. Based on that, guys can decide how to engage in this hobby safely.
Interesting logic.
"Threads like this show why mongers are best avoided. Paid pussy is a magnet for nutters. "
Fair enough, except this is a forum specifically for mongers, and you're posting on it.
So either you're the one completely normal bloke who wandered into a mongers' forum by accident, or you might want to allow for the possibility that being a monger doesn't automatically make everyone else a nutter.
Otherwise the conclusion seems to be: "Never meet mongers, says monger, while talking to mongers on a mongers' forum. "
The irony is doing quite a lot of work here.
[QUOTE=EverythingThai;3087023]Interesting logic.
"Threads like this show why mongers are best avoided. Paid pussy is a magnet for nutters. ".[/QUOTE]Is there rational reaoson why uou misq.