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[QUOTE=KapnAmerica;2926937]I probably wouldn't even have a chance at her if she did it full time[/QUOTE]I think this is because she does not know how things work, or how to find customers. That is why you don't have to pay her that much and can negotiate from the position of strength. You can always have more sessions with her to make her work for your money. Money is like drug. They can get addicted to it in her situation. If you pay her more per fuck, you are going to lose some leverage.
I can relate to those cleanup issues. I've definitely been on my hands and knees searching for stray hairs or worse yet condoms and condom wrappers. For me it's about not wanting to come off as a complete man working girl as well as coming off as neat and clean. I do date a bunch and also embrace ambiguity, which is fhe opposite of most of you and prevailing advice. But its worked really well for me. Lately I've been buying and bringing 5 ML atomizers I fill with 4 or 5 of my favorite scents. Partly It's fun to ask girls which one they like best and tailor to them as well as having options for myself. More importantly, I also spray the bed with a different one than the one I'm wearing that day if I've after having a girl over.
My question to you is have you asked your girlfriend if she's open to the idea of a trio? It might just be my luck but my ex and another couple semi / nonpro girls I know are cool with trios. I've known one of those girls for a year and a half and just had my first trio with her recentlu. She's been catching feelings for me a bit and morphed from a semipro to coming over for free and our sex has just been getting crazier and crazier. Anyway during the trio she must have squirted 4 times including with the other girl getting her off with a vibrator. Mind you she'd never been with another girl before and I had no idea how it was going to go. What was hot, though, was when we talked afterwards she said what turned her on the most was pleasing me and watching me during the trio. I knew she was a pleaser but that turned it up a notch. She knows I see other women and doesn't make any demands on me besides condoms with other girls. But I personally would have no issue committing to a woman who would be open to trios or swinging and limiting my experiences with other women to shared activities.
Anyway, the point is you can find girls that are up for trios and swinging here pretty easily and your girlfriend might be one of them. I've yet to meet a Colombian woman wirh sexual hangups and I've never had a negative response to a respectful conversation about sexual likes and dislikes. If she's into trios or open to swinging its perfect way to have your cake and eat it too without risking your relationship.
[QUOTE=KapnAmerica;2926664]
One thing I didn't have to worry about after sex: hairs. My girlfriend and the Vennie both have black hair of about the same length, so any hairs found in the room from that point on would not arouse any suspicion. But the thing that bothered the shit out of me was the condoms in the trash can. I was constantly worried that my girlfriend would somehow find them when she was in the bathroom taking a shower. And there is no way of explaining my way around that, even though I've never used condoms with her so there is still a glimmer of very implausible deniability. There is no logical reason that a woman would take a trash bag out of a trash can in a hotel, but women do weird shit like that
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Dcrist0527;2926888]At the risk of beating a dead horse, I haven't seen anyone state this: The Kapn was negotiating pesos for time. In this instance, he wasn't negotiating per leche. That's no big deal; I never negotiate that way either. But if I make a deal for an amount of pesos for an amount of time, that's exactly what I'm doing. She's agreed to be with me for 3 hours for a payment. If I choose to bang her for 180 minutes, that's what she signed up for. But if I take her to dinner, a movie, a club or any other activity for 180 minutes, I'm saying she has fulfilled her end of the agreement. If she cut it short, then I'd say she's not entitled to the amount. But if the monger just decides to cancel it? Nah.
It seems to me that there was an opportunity for clarity, which the Kapn already acknowledged. Ignoring all the ways this could have gone wrong with locals, I do think if I agree to a price and length, then we've made a deal. I'm not saying Kapn owes her 500 k. But I do think he owes her something for shrugging and following her out.
One last comment here, because we are all suffering from the gringo hatred. Or at least the entitled attitude. But think about this interaction. Girl agrees to get plowed for 500 k. A gringo goes with her, backs out of the deal, and hands her 5 k? We're talking little more than a dollar. I know the conversation devolved and ended poorly and there's more than one person to blame for that. But, it did further cement the gringo impression. I don't know the appropriate amount. 100 k seems too much but handing her a 5 k bill is just borderline insulting.
I'd feel entirely different if the agreement was more clear. And I've done the 'let's go to a different club' approach. But if we come to an agreement of 500 k, unless she fails to hold up her end, I'm on the hook for it. We negotiate time 9 times out of 10.[/QUOTE]I respect your view on this and it honestly is something I have never really thought hard about. In my relatively short time mongering, I have always assumed that the clock does not "start" until, at the very earliest, the moment the girl and I step into the hotel room or private room. I generally assume that the clock doesn't start until our clothes start coming off or there is some type of foreplay. And many times I will look at my watch before we get started and confirm that the time has just now started and ends at X time. Then set my watch on the nightstand so I can pace myself. I have never yet had a single girl tell me that the clock started before we walked in the room.
Now you are telling me that, in your view, the clock starts to run from the moment you walk out of the bar / club. If it takes you 20 minutes to get from the bar to the hotel and check-in, then you have only 40 minutes left, is my understanding of what you are saying. That blows my mind.
But honestly, I can't really prove you wrong. I usually do ask how much it costs for a certain amount of time and get a price. I have never specified when the time starts. I have always assumed that "one hour" means "one hour of sex. " And I think it does to most people. No one is agreeing to pay a chica 500 k to go to dinner or a movie with them. But I really hate having to rely on an unspoken assumption to get what I bargained for.
So thank you for your response, because I know it is going to save me trouble down the road. I can assure you that if I had gone to the room with that girl and she had told me that I was already 20 minutes into my hour, I would have been irate. Just hearing your view confirms that I made a great decision to walk away as soon as my ears stopped ringing. That situation was about to go south very quickly.
I have been tempted to walk into bars with a typed-out and printed piece of paper folded in my pocket which spells out in explicit detail all of my terms and conditions for a sex-for-money agreement. Including when the clock starts, when money will be paid, and any allowable deductions for incomplete performance. With a blank space for the time and amount of money, and two blanks at the bottom for me and the chica to sign. One copy for me, one copy for her. I have brushed that idea aside because it seems overly formal and tacky. But the more time I have spent in Colombia, and the more viewpoints like yours I have seen in this forum, the more I feel like doing that should be common procedure. It some ways it seems sad, but in other ways it seems almost necessary.
I totally disagree with you that 5 k is "insulting. " If you tip your Uber driver 5 k for taking you from Laureles to Poblado, he will be very happy and not the least bit insulted. In some cases, he might not make 5 k on the ride itself. And he is performing a very valuable service for you. So why should a chica who has performed zero service for you be "insulted" with a 5 k tip plus a free drink?
The insulting thing is when someone starts "converting" pesos to dollars to justify foreigners paying more money simply because they are foreigners. As has been reiterated on this thread, Medellin is not Miami. Just like it costs a chica money to get to the club, it costs us money to get to the club too. Our time when we are there is also valuable, I would say just as valuable as the chicas. So when I start hearing comments like "that's only $20" from greedy tourist-trap operating Colombians, I think, "there are many people in this city who worked hard all day and didn't make that much. " What makes them feel entitled to more than others earn in a day, just because they think they can guilt a foreigner from a wealthy into paying it? The insult is thinking we are dumb enough to fall for it.
I really am at loss for how to handle the situation better than I did. Some say I owe her something. But if I offer too little, it's an "insult. " But don't pay what the door man suggested, that's too much. But make sure to pay enough that you don't get beaten up by random dudes trying to defend her honor. Haha. I just have to shake my head and say to each his own.
As for the reputation of gringos in Medellin, that's already been shot to pieces hasn't it? Maybe if we had more gringos walking away from questionable situations, our reputation would actually improve. Just a thought.
All I really ask is to be treated the same as a local or a Latino tourist. I can tell you that when I was in Lima, I felt that I was treated the same as a local in virtually every respect, and maybe even better in some instances. And I really appreciated that. Meanwhile, gringo tourists in Medellin collectively seem to have no problem with the adult entertainment industry treating them like social pariahs and walking ATMs. If we don't start demanding some respect, it will only get worse. Fortunately, Medellin isn't the only place to monger. So maybe many of those punters waiting in that snaking immigration line should consider heading to greener pastures in Latin America. I honestly think the city of Medellin would prefer that; they don't seem to want us there.
[QUOTE=Recondite;2926969]I can relate to those cleanup issues. I've definitely been on my hands and knees searching for stray hairs or worse yet condoms and condom wrappers. For me it's about not wanting to come off as a complete man working girl as well as coming off as neat and clean. I do date a bunch and also embrace ambiguity, which is fhe opposite of most of you and prevailing advice. But its worked really well for me. Lately I've been buying and bringing 5 ML atomizers I fill with 4 or 5 of my favorite scents. Partly It's fun to ask girls which one they like best and tailor to them as well as having options for myself. More importantly, I also spray the bed with a different one than the one I'm wearing that day if I've after having a girl over.
My question to you is have you asked your girlfriend if she's open to the idea of a trio? It might just be my luck but my ex and another couple semi / nonpro girls I know are cool with trios. I've known one of those girls for a year and a half and just had my first trio with her recentlu. She's been catching feelings for me a bit and morphed from a semipro to coming over for free and our sex has just been getting crazier and crazier. Anyway during the trio she must have squirted 4 times including with the other girl getting her off with a vibrator. Mind you she'd never been with another girl before and I had no idea how it was going to go. What was hot, though, was when we talked afterwards she said what turned her on the most was pleasing me and watching me during the trio. I knew she was a pleaser but that turned it up a notch. She knows I see other women and doesn't make any demands on me besides condoms with other girls. But I personally would have no issue committing to a woman who would be open to trios or swinging and limiting my experiences with other women to shared activities.
Anyway, the point is you can find girls that are up for trios and swinging here pretty easily and your girlfriend might be one of them. I've yet to meet a Colombian woman wirh sexual hangups and I've never had a negative response to a respectful conversation about sexual likes and dislikes. If she's into trios or open to swinging its perfect way to have your cake and eat it too without risking your relationship.[/QUOTE]I am 99.9% certain that my girlfriend would recoil at the idea of a trio. So sure, in fact, that I would not even suggest it. Honestly, the idea does not appeal to me, because I like to keep my relationship with her and my mongering activities completely separate. I might have a change of heart once she and I get quite a bit older.
And based on your description of your threesome, I am now sure that mine did not go as well as possible. Congrats on finding a real gem there. I wouldn't mind having a regular girl who is genuinely into threesomes, but haven't been lucky enough to find one yet.
[QUOTE=Dcrist0527;2926888]At the risk of beating a dead horse, I haven't seen anyone state this: The Kapn was negotiating pesos for time. In this instance, he wasn't negotiating per leche. That's no big deal; I never negotiate that way either.
0.[/QUOTE]Interesting. Just curious why you negotiate that way.
I guess to argue against myself sometimes I pop fast and sometimes I chilling with the girl. I dno I'm wondering if I'm missing out on an opportunity I didn't think about by negotiating per hour instead.
[QUOTE=Villainy;2926869]I would 'like' your comment if it was an option on the site. Everything you said is exactly right.[/QUOTE]If this is the case then why even go outside of your house? Local goons do not need a hooker that walked outside and did not get paid as an excuse to whoop a foreigner's ass and take his money. They can whoop your ass and take all your money on gp and not have to split it with some random hooker. You guys and these old wives tales.
[QUOTE=Dcrist0527;2926888]But if we come to an agreement of 500 k, unless she fails to hold up her end, I'm on the hook for it. We negotiate time 9 times out of 10.[/QUOTE]You know how many hookers have gone with someone and did not hold up their end? Then what? Does she say I know I promised a blow job without a condom, but I will not do that. Only give me 350 K instead of the 500 K you promised. No she does not. She still wants the 500 K. So whether she holds up her end or not, you are still on the hook for the full money.
Then if he had taken her and things went awry, people would say you should have seen the red flags. I do not know about you, but I am definitely not paying for red flags. Either way the shit goes, people are always going to say the monger is at fault.
She can walk out with 5 dudes per night and start some goofy shit when they get outside. Let some people tell it, each person should still give her 100,000 pesos, so she goes home with 500,000 pesos for doing shit all night except escorting folks outside. Then down the road you got people complaining about how the girls do, when they fostered it by paying them anyway when they did it. Guys are their own worst enemy when it comes to women.
[QUOTE=KapnAmerica;2926937]Well, she claimed she got knocked up by a guy she was in a relationship with who then bailed on her. [/QUOTE]That was your time to say and look at me still here and you will not even suck my dick without a condom. I must be doing something wrong if you are going to treat a guy that leaves you like a king, but one that keeps giving you 300 K like a stranger.
[QUOTE=GeorgeCarta22;2927000]Interesting. Just curious why you negotiate that way.
I guess to argue against myself sometimes I pop fast and sometimes I chilling with the girl. I dno I'm wondering if I'm missing out on an opportunity I didn't think about by negotiating per hour instead.[/QUOTE]I could be very wrong. But I'm operating on the assumption most of us negotiate in terms of time. That's what the Kapn said, but I do know some negotiate per shot. Why do I negotiate on time? Well, two reasons. One: I'm old. On a good day I get two shots. So I try for a daytime shot and a nighttime option. A second shot won't happen without a couple hours in between. Getting old sucks. Haha But almost as importantly, I do not want to be rushed. In fact, there are few things that are more of a turnoff to me than a chica trying to speed things along. Especially with a condom, I'm pretty lucky if I shoot off in 30 minutes. So generally, I prefer longer dates. Somewhere between 2 and 3 hours is my sweet spot. I like to make some level of connection. I am convinced that is the most important ingredient to a less transactional interaction. I'm just not into wham bam now leave. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that approach, if that's what you enjoy. It's just not me. So, for those reasons, I always negotiate time.
[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2927060]That was your time to say and look at me still here and you will not even suck my dick without a condom. I must be doing something wrong if you are going to treat a guy that leaves you like a king, but one that keeps giving you 300 K like a stranger.[/QUOTE]Haha! Man, I tried everything. I actually didn't find out about her having a baby until after the deed was done and we were at dinner. Maybe I could have used that one if I had known sooner. I'll definitely tuck it away for next time.
Now that she has made me think about it so much and has put up so much resistance, it will be quite a thrill if she ever does it for me. Maybe that's her plan. Keep me satisfied but always wanting more.
[QUOTE=KapnAmerica;2926979]I respect your view on this and it honestly is something I have never really thought hard about. In my relatively short time mongering, I have always assumed that the clock does not "start" until, at the very earliest, the moment the girl and I step into the hotel room or private room. I generally assume that the clock doesn't start until our clothes start coming off or there is some type of foreplay. And many times I will look at my watch before we get started and confirm that the time has just now started and ends at X time. Then set my watch on the nightstand so I can pace myself. I have never yet had a single girl tell me that the clock started before we walked in the room.
Now you are telling me that, in your view, the clock starts to run from the moment you walk out of the bar / club. If it takes you 20 minutes to get from the bar to the hotel and check-in, then you have only 40 minutes left, is my understanding of what you are saying. That blows my mind.
But honestly, I can't really prove you wrong. I usually do ask how much it costs for a certain amount of time and get a price. I have never specified when the time starts. I have always assumed that "one hour" means "one hour of sex. " And I think it does to most people. No one is agreeing to pay a chica 500 k to go to dinner or a movie with them. But I really hate having to rely on an unspoken assumption to get what I bargained for.
So thank you for your response, because I know it is going to save me trouble down the road. I can assure you that if I had gone to the room with that girl and she had told me that I was already 20 minutes into my hour, I would have been irate. Just hearing your view confirms that I made a great decision to walk away as soon as my ears stopped ringing. That situation was about to go south very quickly.
I have been tempted to walk into bars with a typed-out and printed piece of paper folded in my pocket which spells out in explicit detail all of my terms and conditions for a sex-for-money agreement. Including when the clock starts, when money will be paid, and any allowable deductions for incomplete performance. With a blank space for the time and amount of money, and two blanks at the bottom for me and the chica to sign. One copy for me, one copy for her. I have brushed that idea aside because it seems overly formal and tacky. But the more time I have spent in Colombia, and the more viewpoints like yours I have seen in this forum, the more I feel like doing that should be common procedure. It some ways it seems sad, but in other ways it seems almost necessary.
I totally disagree with you that 5 k is "insulting. " If you tip your Uber driver 5 k for taking you from Laureles to Poblado, he will be very happy and not the least bit insulted. In some cases, he might not make 5 k on the ride itself. And he is performing a very valuable service for you. So why should a chica who has performed zero service for you be "insulted" with a 5 k tip plus a free drink?
The insulting thing is when someone starts "converting" pesos to dollars to justify foreigners paying more money simply because they are foreigners. As has been reiterated on this thread, Medellin is not Miami. Just like it costs a chica money to get to the club, it costs us money to get to the club too. Our time when we are there is also valuable, I would say just as valuable as the chicas. So when I start hearing comments like "that's only $20" from greedy tourist-trap operating Colombians, I think, "there are many people in this city who worked hard all day and didn't make that much. " What makes them feel entitled to more than others earn in a day, just because they think they can guilt a foreigner from a wealthy into paying it? The insult is thinking we are dumb enough to fall for it.
I really am at loss for how to handle the situation better than I did. Some say I owe her something. But if I offer too little, it's an "insult. " But don't pay what the door man suggested, that's too much. But make sure to pay enough that you don't get beaten up by random dudes trying to defend her honor. Haha. I just have to shake my head and say to each his own.
As for the reputation of gringos in Medellin, that's already been shot to pieces hasn't it? Maybe if we had more gringos walking away from questionable situations, our reputation would actually improve. Just a thought.
All I really ask is to be treated the same as a local or a Latino tourist. I can tell you that when I was in Lima, I felt that I was treated the same as a local in virtually every respect, and maybe even better in some instances. And I really appreciated that. Meanwhile, gringo tourists in Medellin collectively seem to have no problem with the adult entertainment industry treating them like social pariahs and walking ATMs. If we don't start demanding some respect, it will only get worse. Fortunately, Medellin isn't the only place to monger. So maybe many of those punters waiting in that snaking immigration line should consider heading to greener pastures in Latin America. I honestly think the city of Medellin would prefer that; they don't seem to want us there.[/QUOTE]My understanding is the deal was 500 mil for 1 HR of sex, correct? If so, why did you want to check out another club with her? You expected her to hang out with you at some other place for some time, and only after that, head back to your hotel? This doesn't make any sense. Of course she wanted to go straight to your hotel, and once you are done, probably head back to gustos to get another client or just call it a night and go home. Another thing, is that you bailed out once you got out of the club. You could not make up your mind while in the club? I don't get it. Either you are interested in fucking her and make a deal you commit to, or don't make a deal at all. Make up your mind, you are a grown man.
[QUOTE=KapnAmerica;2926979]I really am at loss for how to handle the situation better than I did.[/QUOTE]You made many questionable choices that put yourself in a disadvantageous position. What matters is what would you do next time in the same situation?
[QUOTE=Sangnyc21;2926962]You're just a bitter soul that hates on women .[/QUOTE]Then don't call those women ugly. They are just innocent bystanders.
[QUOTE=KapnAmerica;2926979]I really am at loss for how to handle the situation better than I did. Some say I owe her something. But if I offer too little, it's an "insult. " But don't pay what the door man suggested, that's too much. But make sure to pay enough that you don't get beaten up by random dudes trying to defend her honor. Haha. I just have to shake my head and say to each his own.
[/QUOTE]Yeah, don't get me wrong; I don't think there was a "correct" amount to pay her and I think you did the best you could in that situation since that is a major edge case in the situation of cancelling a session. I think you paid a reasonable amount for what the situation entailed since you "made good" on cancelling the session and the bouncer let you walk off. In another situation, with another bouncer, you might have had to pay more or get your ass kicked and that would have been described to you explicitly. And whatever you paid that that point would have been fair.
The important part to note (and how to better handle the situation in the future) is you should just know that walking out of the bar with a chick is an admission that you want to pay for sex and that is the expectation. Yes, you have some leeway to get back to you place and the "clock" doesn't start until you generally get to the apartment, but there is an expectation of paying a chick for time wasted unless she is the one trying to back out. You can't just expect to take a prepago out to bars for hours on end then start the clock / pay for a 30 minute sex session. Again, your situation was an edge case on the other end of the spectrum and some girls might have even let it slide, but it's still the expectation to adhere to.