General Reports

[QUOTE=SlickVick;1567573]Hey guys,

I've been reading the forum and it has really peaked my interest in traveling to Thailand (Most likely Bangkok) However, my reason for posting is that this would be a HUGE trip for me. I am a complete rookie in this realm. I've done Tijuana plenty times A. Its close be. I speak spanish fluently. See. I know the money conversions the. Know the culture a bit more.

Here are my areas of concern:

1. I would be going alone...As in no one would even know I was going.

2. I don't know ANY words in the language.

3. Not familiar with the culture (althought I have been reading on it).

4. I only have about 5 days total.

5. Budget is 3 k (all in which includes flight and lodging).

I know the flight and lodging alone can be about $1,700 from where I am. That leaves me with say $1,500. I know it is cheap but is this worth it?

Tijuana is always a back up plan figure 700 covers flight and lodging for the same time period. Leaving me with much more to play with.

I know it's one of those you have to just go and find out for yourself, but am I in over my head with these items to overcome?

Thanks for any input.[/QUOTE]Lots of advice, most from guys who have never been to Tijuana. So, being intimately familiar with both locations, I'll toss my dos centavos into the mix.

1. Alone is fine unless you're timid. You'll not want for company after you arrive.

2. Language won't be an issue. Speak slowly and listen carefully. The accent will be strange. Most of the time Thais put the stress on the ultima, not the penult as in Spanish. Pa-ta-YAH, for example, instead of Pa-TIE-ya. Thai has no plurals and no conjunctions, and they tend to speak in the third person, so your English will sound weird. "SlickVick go Post Office." You'll do fine.

3. The culture isn't that much different from Mexico. Both countries have a very strong religious tradition that affects almost all aspects of life. If you wouldn't do it to the Virgin Mary, don't do it to the Buddha. Don't insult the king under any circumstances. The biggest difference between MX and TH is that the Thais tend towards fastidious personal cleanliness and they take their shoes off for everything.

4. 5 days is cutting it very short. It takes 2 days to get there. I'm not sure where you're coming from, but from CA it's anywhere from 18 to 21 hours, plus you lose a day. Coming back you gain that day. So, if you leave on Monday you'll arrive on Wednesday and when you come back you'll arrive on the same day you left. Factor that into your 5 days. You should consider trying for a minimum of a week, maybe 10 days if possible.

5. Budget it tight but doable. If you don't mind 2 and 3 star hotels and eating street food (which is the best in the world save perhaps Singapore or Penang), then it's doable. Staying around Soi 4 (Soi Nana) is a bit like staying in the Zona Norte. If you like it, OK. I think it's like sleeping in the sewer. I prefer somewhere closer to Asok, personally.

Now some food for thought. First the budget. While food is cheap and lodging is reasonable, booze may not be. How much do you drink? A bottle of beer in most go-go bars will run around $5, give or take, unless you can hit a happy hour. This is about 50% more than Zona Norte bars, and 2 x1 (a staple in every ZN bar except Hong Kong and Adelita) is very hard to come by in Thailand. Factor that into your fun budget. Ficha drinks are called "Lady Drinks" in TH and will run anywhere from $5 to $6+ depending on the bar. That's a bit cheaper than the Zona Norte, but only just. Factor that in as well.

Transportation will be an added expense. Learn the Skytrain (BTS) routes and it's much easier than any other form of transport. Each trip will run somewhere in the $1.00 to $1.50 range. This is by far the way to go, but it stops running at midnight. There is a subway, too (MRT). Same rules apply. Unlike Tijuana, taxis are metered and you should insist the cabbie use it. Taxis for trips around lower Sukhumvit will tend to run $2 to $5. However, when the bars close the taxis congregate and it's hell to get one to use the meter. Use your best judgment. Anyway, the point is to factor transportation charges of around $10 a day into your plans.

Next the girls. Hong Kong ladies run $60 to $80 for 30 minutes, plus $17(?) for the room. Girls from Adelita, Tropical, etc., may be less, as low as $40. For the same $40, or about 1200 Baht, you'll probably be looking at the lower end of the spectrum of Thai ladies, probably beer bar or freelancers (YMMV as usual). Unfortunately, the going rate for most ladies has risen to about 2,000 baht, or $62. Now you also have to factor in the "Bar Fine," which doesn't exist in Zona Norte. That tends to be around 600 baht, or about $20. If you need to get a short time hotel that will run somewhere between 300 and 600 baht, too. I haven't had to do a ST hotel in a long time. If you are reasonably close you can just go back to your room, unlike the Zona Norte. Unfortunately, a short time encounter these days is far closer to the Zona Norte times, I.e. Around 30 minutes to an hour. To summarize, you'll pay between $80 and $100 for the girl, depending on whether or not you need a short time hotel. And this is for an average girl. The top chicas get 3,000 to 4,000 for the same time, or between $90 and $125, plus the bar fine. Now you're knocking on the door of $200, and this is with no drinks. So, your horizontal encounters are probably going to cost you considerably more than those of the Zona Norte. And don't forget the "Coyote" dancers who may not be available or, if so, may have bar fines in the 1000 to 1500 baht range.

Now you must consider the looks factor. Everybody had their own taste. However, if you like the Latinas, especially the pretty ones in Hong Kong Club, you will be sorely disappointed in the current crop of average bar girls in Bangkok. Again, I'm not the arbiter of taste. But the average looks of the Thai bar girls has gone downhill in the past few years (some say drastically). The average Latina, in my experience, is better in bed than the average Thai lady. If kissing is your thing you'll be disappointed in the Thais who tend to be terrible kissers. However, if DATY is your thing the Thai nether regions tend to be much sweeter smelling. I'm not recommending one over the other, but I think you need to have all the facts before committing to such a trip.

I think everybody should visit once. But, on the other hand, Tijuana is a far better place than it was 5 or 6 years ago and it's full of very pretty ladies. Nobody can say which place is better because they are totally different. But Thailand is no longer the haven of beautiful cheap pussy that it once was. The game has changed and Tijuana tends to be better value for money. Thailand has a much larger scene and there is more variety, I.e blow job bars, nice soapy and oily massages that don't exist in the Zona Norte. But you'll be spending as much or more for your fun and the quality of the ladies may not compare favorably.

So, think carefully and let us know your decision.

P.S. Thank you is Kop Khun Khrap (although the R is mostly silent). Hakun or Aukun is Khmer.

Phordphan,

That was one hell of a post! Thanks for giving me such a great breakdown and realistic expectations. It seems like pricing and overall spending isn't much different than in Tijuana. I also like your reality check of the girls. I do favor latinas over asian, but figured if I can get more action and see something different why not.

I am really thinking about it now. I do love the chicas from HK and AB, and if I can expect a downgrade from that...I am not so sure. Ultimately I'd love to visit BKK but now I need to weigh my options for this particular trip. I do agree with you that Tijuana seems to be getting better every trip so that is another incentive to go. I think I will need to break out the scale and marbles on this one..

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1567766]Lots of advice, most from guys who have never been to Tijuana. So, being intimately familiar with both locations, I'll toss my dos centavos into the mix.

Next the girls. Hong Kong ladies run $60 to $80 for 30 minutes, plus $17(?) for the room.[/QUOTE]Thanks Phordphan. It's nice to read a post that makes such a thorough comparison of two mongering destinations.

If I may, I'd add.

$70 (taking the mid-point) plus $17 for 30 minutes is $87 which is about THB2800. For THB2800, tip included, you get two hours, three holes and two shots with a one of the porn stars at Tulip or Snow White. As for performance, the less experienced Thai girls are, well, less experienced. Compared to SW of other nationalities, in my opinion you are more likely to find an experienced Thai SW who performs very well and actually seem to enjoy having sex with the client rather than coming across as a hardened mercenary. As for looks, that is definitely a matter of personal taste. In general I find the Thai ladies more attractive than the Latin ladies; at the same time I think the top Colombian and Venezuelan ladies are among the most beautiful women in the world. But that is a matter of taste. Youtube has lots of videos that will give you a sense of what the girls really look like, so you can draw your own conclusions. You do need to consider whether it is worth it to travel almost half-way around the world to fuck for a few days.

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1567766]P.S. Thank you is Kop Khun Khrap (although the R is mostly silent). Hakun or Aukun is Khmer.[/QUOTE]Thanks! I didn't know that.

[QUOTE=LordNecros;1568135]Thanks! I didn't know that.[/QUOTE]So as not to be confused if you hear a woman say the phrase, she will substitute a kha for the krap. For example, sa-what-dii khrap is the way a man greets someone. Sa-what-dii kha is the way a woman greets someone.

And that is a decent percentage of all the Thai I know.

[QUOTE=PaulKausch;1568138]So as not to be confused if you hear a woman say the phrase, she will substitute a kha for the krap. For example, sa-what-dii khrap is the way a man greets someone. Sa-what-dii kha is the way a woman greets someone.

And that is a decent percentage of all the Thai I know.[/QUOTE]That one I know. Since my main source of the learning was the service girls themselves, I would say "sawadee kha" and "hakun kha" to everyone. Som corrected me and told me that was what girls say. Men say "khrap".

[QUOTE=Phordphan;1567766]Lots of advice, most from guys who have never been to Tijuana. So, being intimately familiar with both locations, I'll toss my dos centavos into the mix.

1. Alone is fine unless you're timid. You'll not want for company after you arrive.

2. Language won't be an issue. Speak slowly and listen carefully. The accent will be strange. Most of the time Thais put the stress on the ultima, not the penult as in Spanish. Pa-ta-YAH, for example, instead of Pa-TIE-ya. Thai has no plurals and no conjunctions, and they tend to speak in the third person, so your English will sound weird. "SlickVick go Post Office." You'll do fine.

3. The culture isn't that much different from Mexico. Both countries have a very strong religious tradition that affects almost all aspects of life. If you wouldn't do it to the Virgin Mary, don't do it to the Buddha. Don't insult the king under any circumstances...[/QUOTE]I would add. I am assuming you have excluded the travel time there and back because otherwise you would have like two days there and that flight sucks. Your airfare if from California is $1000 to $1200. Rooms are like 800 baut a day because you probally want to stay where the action is. $1000 for 5 days is enough. I spend $300 a day personally there. Tijuana street girls although they look filthy are much cleaner than thai girls. Thai girls for the most part french kiss all customers, BBBJ, daty and lets just say bare back sex is common in Thailand. Tijuana street girls will do none of that at least I never met one that did. I would not want to kiss these girls but that's me. Also, I want to add. If you go to Thailand and I go every year. Do not go in the low season! I made that mistake one and will never do that again. Besides much less girls. Who wants to go on vacation while its raining hard everyday.

Every guy needs to experience Thailand one in his life. Excluding travel time you really need to do at least 7 days.

My buddy lives in Thailand and he just told me as of last week. Foreigners are only allowed to stay in Thailand something like 20 days. Then you have to walk over the border and reenter Thailand. Now the Thai government requires you to fly out and fly back in. You have to show proof of plane ticket. Now I did not read this in the paper I was told by my friend that lives there. Thing there just got a whole lot more expensive. People go there to save money but now with this new law Thailand will lose a lot of money. I will research this to confirm this and the date it takes effect. If anyone else knows about this please let us all know.

[QUOTE=PaulKausch;1568138]So as not to be confused if you hear a woman say the phrase, she will substitute a kha for the krap. For example, sa-what-dii khrap is the way a man greets someone. Sa-what-dii kha is the way a woman greets someone.

And that is a decent percentage of all the Thai I know.[/QUOTE]Another very useful phrase is "Phet nid noi, khrap", meaning "not too spicy" when you order food. It has saved countless of my taste buds ...

And when on the subject of Thai phrases, try "suwaai mak mak khrap" when you talk to a girl. It means "very very beautiful", or add "na" after the sentence but before the "krap". "Khrap" makes your sentence "polite", but "na" adds a subtle element of suave and loveliness. So "suwaai mak mak na khrap" puts the talk on a more intimate level and you know you are close to her heart when she answers "baag waan kha" (litteraly "you are a sugar mouth", i.e. you flatter me). The right response to that is "mai baag waan" ("I'm not flattering you", i.e. I am speaking the truth). GFE-sex will then usually follow. ;)

[QUOTE=Phordphan]

5 days is cutting it very short. It takes 2 days to get there. I'm not sure where you're coming from, but from CA it's anywhere from 18 to 21 hours, plus you lose a day. Coming back you gain that day. So, if you leave on Monday you'll arrive on Wednesday and when you come back you'll arrive on the same day you left. Factor that into your 5 days. You should consider trying for a minimum of a week, maybe 10 days if possible.

Budget it tight but doable. If you don't mind 2 and 3 star hotels and eating street food (which is the best in the world save perhaps Singapore or Penang), then it's doable. Staying around Soi 4 (Soi Nana) is a bit like staying in the Zona Norte. If you like it, OK. I think it's like sleeping in the sewer. I prefer somewhere closer to Asok, personally.

Now you must consider the looks factor. Everybody had their own taste. However, if you like the Latinas, especially the pretty ones in Hong Kong Club, you will be sorely disappointed in the current crop of average bar girls in Bangkok. Again, I'm not the arbiter of taste. But the average looks of the Thai bar girls has gone downhill in the past few years (some say drastically).[/QUOTE]I've spent quite a bit of time in Tijuana's Zona Norte, dating back to the early 90's, so I thought I'd weigh in here.

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: Absolutely positively *GO* to Bangkok. It's totally worth it.

LENGTH OF TRIP: Concur with Mr. Phordphan that the journey is *so* freaking long that it behooves you to spend as much time as possible on the ground once you arrive. You mentioned it might be possible to add a couple of days to your stay in Bangkok. That's a very good idea. Don't book any trip with more than one stop en route. It's just not worth it to save a few dollars.

BUDGET: Mr. Phordphan knows whereof he speaks in respect of the cost of P4 P in BKK. On your budget I would recommend against trying to get laid more than once a day. I think you would enjoy one session with a hottie more than two sessions with average girls. The scene in Bangkok is many *many* times larger than in Tijuana. For the new guy, half the fun is going from place to place and checking out the girls. If you budget for one quality session per day you can enjoy the hunt and make sure to find a girl that you think is hot.

Street food is cheap and good. You can also eat cheap at the "hawker stalls" at the MBK Center and Terminal 21. Those are what Americans would call a "food court" in a "shopping mall." The Terminal 21 complex is connected to the Asok BTS station. Very convenient to all the hotels favored by punters.

HOTELS: I respectfully differ with Mr. Phordphan regarding the lodging available on Soi 4, south of the Nana Entertainment Plaza. It's an area that's popular with punters, that's for sure. But it's nowhere near as nasty as Zone Norte. It's bigger, cleaner and there are actually some nice pubs, restaurants and other places. There are plenty of nice hotels available at decent rates, and they are light years better than dumps like the Hotel Coahuila and Hotel Cascadas. I suggest you consider the places on Soi 4 about 200 meters south of Sukhumvit, or on a side street called Soi 6. Those are close enough to NEP that you can use them instead of a short time hotel, saving 300-400 baht.

I concur with Mr. Phordphan that lodging near Asok is also a good option. Look at the places on Soi 23. The only problem with doing that, in my view, is that Soi Cowboy has become a shadow of its former self. It's largely a tourist trap trading on its reputation, many of the bars owned by "The Arab" are clip joints, and the prevalence of coyote girls who tease but don't go totally defeats the purpose of your visit. (If I wanted to pay too much for beer while leering at girls I can never have I'll stay in the states, thank you).

You can split the difference and stay at a hotel near Sukhumvit that's west of Asok and east of Soi 4. Spend some time reading the hotel forum on this board to learn more.

BEAUTY IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER: Again I must respectfully dissent from Mr. Phordphan's opinion. He sets up a bit of a straw man when he compares the "pretty" girls at the best club in the Zona Norte (curiously named Hong Kong) to the "average bar girl in Bangkok." A more realistic comparison would be between the hotties at the Hong Kong Club in Tijuana and the stunners at Baccara on Soi Cowboy, or the top shelf girls at the Rainbow 4 in NEP.

I realize this is highly subjective. But I've been with both and as far as I'm concerned the BKK girls win the "Battle of the Brunettes." It's the law of averages. There are more girls in Rainbow 4 on a busy night than in the top five Zona Norte clubs combined. Can you get lucky in Tijuana? Sure, if you stumble onto the legendary Rosie back in her prime at the Chicago Club, or nail her friends Esua and Sophi (who looked like a college freshman but sucked dick like one of the old pros at Star of Light). But when I was in the Hong Kong Club in February it was a packed sausage-fest. I couldn't sit down, let alone hope to attract the attention of one of the hotties. In Bangkok the selection is at least an order of magnitude better. If you can't find somebody you fancy, you're not trying.

THE EXPERIENCE, IN THE BAR AND EN EL CUARTO (that's "in the room" for those of you who don't speak Spanish):

Simply no comparison between the depressing outlaw scene in Mexico and the gentleman's playground that is Thailand.

In Tijuana you can pay for a lady drink, but often as not you bump into your favorite in the aisle and ask "vamos arriba?" which means "we go upstairs?" Veterans know this is the time for haggling over price and service. Very romantic. Not. In Bangkok, at least in the go-go clubs, I can spot a girl I like on stage and invite her for a drink. There's a little cuddling, some light petting and if she's anxious to seal the deal, the petting gets a little heavier. Last trip I recall sitting down with a hottie at Mandarin and five minutes later she had her hand up my shorts to give Mr. Wood some very personal attention. Sipping a cocktail, checking out the dancers while your sweetie jerks you off is a very nice way to tune up, if I do say so myself. Even if I decide I'm not ready to head back to the room, it's OK. I can give the girl a couple hundred baht (about $6) and move on. In the Hong Kong Club you can pay $20 or more (that's 600 baht) for a "privado" in a tiny little room, but it lasts the length of one song and the girls keep their hands to themselves. Not a good value.

In Tijuana you have to use the hotel associated with the the bar where you found your sweetie. You go next door, climb a flight of stairs to the second floor and stand in line behind other "couples" for the privilege of paying to use a short time room. You get one ratty towel between you, unless your tip persuades the guy at the front desk to part with a second. The room is a 80 square foot tile box, to facilitate hosing out the cum on a regular basis. There's a bare bulb on the ceiling, a sad queen size bed, a shelf bolted to the wall and a tiny shower and sink off to the side. Many of the girls decline to shower before you get started. Some will only partially disrobe. Virtually none of them will do a BBBJ.

So you get a two-minute condomized blowjob, followed by some in-and-out. If you make it to the ten minute mark the girl will usually start to demand "you feenish?" Keep your socks on. Who knows what's on that floor. Afterwards many of the girl's favor a working girl's bath over the sink, followed by 30 second of dressing and a bolt back to the bar. If you're inclined to use the nasty shower, do it quick. The "cum boy" will pound on the door to let you know to move it along. On the way out, he will demand a tip.

In Bangkok even the most mercenary go-go girl will change into a nice outfit before heading out with you to your hotel. You walk hand in hand into the night, or hop in a taxi or tuk tuk back to your place. At a minimum, she's going to take a shower to start. If you're lucky you can shower together. Then it's off to the bedroom, where you can count on BBBJ about 95 percent of the time, followed by as many positions as you care to try. Unless you're a real porn star or too drunk to come, you'll get as much time as you need to finish. In fact, most of the girls take pride in getting you off, regardless of how long that takes. Cum on tits? Not a problem. Cum on face? Arrangeable. Afterwards you both shower, chat a little bit, maybe have a drink from the minibar. Even the high volume go-go stunners will be with you for the better part of an hour during a short time session. And of course there's always the chance to arrange an overnight session, something that's unheard of in Tijuana.

Like I said, I spent quite a bit of time in the Zona Norte back in the 90's. Just my opinion, but the internet ruined the place. Demand exploded and supply didn't keep up. (Thanks for nothing, Brockton O'Toole!) There just aren't enough good looking girls. The same dynamic is at work in Thailand, but the scene is so much bigger a punter who is willing to spend top dollar can still have a good time. That's why I'm allocating all my holiday money to the other side of the international date line these days.

Bunky.

[QUOTE=Bunky;1568387]BEAUTY IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER: Again I must respectfully dissent from Mr. Phordphan's opinion. He sets up a bit of a straw man when he compares the "pretty" girls at the best club in the Zona Norte (curiously named Hong Kong) to the "average bar girl in Bangkok." A more realistic comparison would be between the hotties at the Hong Kong Club in Tijuana and the stunners at Baccara on Soi Cowboy, or the top shelf girls at the Rainbow 4 in NEP.

I realize this is highly subjective. But I've been with both and as far as I'm concerned the BKK girls win the "Battle of the Brunettes." It's the law of averages. There are more girls in Rainbow 4 on a busy night than in the top five Zona Norte clubs combined. Can you get lucky in Tijuana? Sure, if you stumble onto the legendary Rosie back in her prime at the Chicago Club, or nail her friends Esua and Sophi (who looked like a college freshman but sucked dick like one of the old pros at Star of Light). But when I was in the Hong Kong Club in February it was a packed sausage-fest. I couldn't sit down, let alone hope to attract the attention of one of the hotties. In Bangkok the selection is at least an order of magnitude better. If you can't find somebody you fancy, you're not trying.[/QUOTE]You point is well taken. My wording was clumsy. Hey it was about 1:00 am when I posted it. :)

What I was trying to get at was the overall looks of the girls, not to compare hotties to hotties. Generally speaking, Latinas have a nice ample ass (IMHO there is nothing as nice as a well-shaped Latina ass), and proper curves. Thais (and Asians in general) tend to flat asses. Latinas tend to have shapelier legs. Very generally speaking, and depending on the percentage of Spanish vs Indian blood, Latinas tend to have larger racks than the Thais. This is all highly subjective, and I've had Yellow Fever for about as long as I can remember. But my point was that the prototypical "Latina look" will be more difficult to find in LOS, and the OP should consider that, in case it's a deal breaker. Yes, Rainbow 4 has loads of pretty girls. But it seems they all have nose jobs and boob jobs, which are a major turn-off for me. Again, this is all subjective and there is no accounting for taste. But my intent wasn't to compare the best Tijuana girls with average beer bar girls in Thailand.

As an aside, I've seen loads of pretty ladies in plenty of other Tijuana venues. Personally, I don't see the attraction of Hong Kong these days. Yes, the girls are pretty but there are tons of pretty girls in the other clubs. Hong Kong (for those who've never been) is a US-style strip club with Mexican contact rules. It's a sausage fest on weekends and the girls are extremely poor value for money, looks or no looks. But I digress.

[QUOTE=Bunky;1568387]Simply no comparison between the depressing outlaw scene in Mexico and the gentleman's playground that is Thailand.

In Tijuana you can pay for a lady drink, but often as not you bump into your favorite in the aisle and ask "vamos arriba?" which means "we go upstairs?" Veterans know this is the time for haggling over price and service. Very romantic. Not. In Bangkok, at least in the go-go clubs, I can spot a girl I like on stage and invite her for a drink. There's a little cuddling, some light petting and if she's anxious to seal the deal, the petting gets a little heavier. Last trip I recall sitting down with a hottie at Mandarin and five minutes later she had her hand up my shorts to give Mr. Wood some very personal attention. Sipping a cocktail, checking out the dancers while your sweetie jerks you off is a very nice way to tune up, if I do say so myself. Even if I decide I'm not ready to head back to the room, it's OK. I can give the girl a couple hundred baht (about $6) and move on. In the Hong Kong Club you can pay $20 or more (that's 600 baht) for a "privado" in a tiny little room, but it lasts the length of one song and the girls keep their hands to themselves. Not a good value.

In Tijuana you have to use the hotel associated with the the bar where you found your sweetie. You go next door, climb a flight of stairs to the second floor and stand in line behind other "couples" for the privilege of paying to use a short time room. You get one ratty towel between you, unless your tip persuades the guy at the front desk to part with a second. The room is a 80 square foot tile box, to facilitate hosing out the cum on a regular basis. There's a bare bulb on the ceiling, a sad queen size bed, a shelf bolted to the wall and a tiny shower and sink off to the side. Many of the girls decline to shower before you get started. Some will only partially disrobe. Virtually none of them will do a BBBJ.

So you get a two-minute condomized blowjob, followed by some in-and-out. If you make it to the ten minute mark the girl will usually start to demand "you feenish?" Keep your socks on. Who knows what's on that floor. Afterwards many of the girl's favor a working girl's bath over the sink, followed by 30 second of dressing and a bolt back to the bar. If you're inclined to use the nasty shower, do it quick. The "cum boy" will pound on the door to let you know to move it along. On the way out, he will demand a tip.

In Bangkok even the most mercenary go-go girl will change into a nice outfit before heading out with you to your hotel. You walk hand in hand into the night, or hop in a taxi or tuk tuk back to your place. At a minimum, she's going to take a shower to start. If you're lucky you can shower together. Then it's off to the bedroom, where you can count on BBBJ about 95 percent of the time, followed by as many positions as you care to try. Unless you're a real porn star or too drunk to come, you'll get as much time as you need to finish. In fact, most of the girls take pride in getting you off, regardless of how long that takes. Cum on tits? Not a problem. Cum on face? Arrangeable. Afterwards you both shower, chat a little bit, maybe have a drink from the minibar. Even the high volume go-go stunners will be with you for the better part of an hour during a short time session. And of course there's always the chance to arrange an overnight session, something that's unheard of in Tijuana.[/QUOTE]The Tijuana scene of the late '90's hardly compares with the scene in 2014, both for better and worse. But it's hardly Outlaw.

Perhaps I've been doing it wrong all these years, but your experience Tijuana doesn't mirror mine. In 100% of my encounters in the various ZN bars I've never walked up to a girl and said "Let's fuck." And the ones who ask me that get blown off. One can sit with the girl as long as one wants, as long as one is willing to buy lady drinks, much the same as Thailand. You can chat, joke, laugh, do some of Pit Bull's Lick, lick, bite, bite, nibble nibble if you wish. Then head to the room. Again, mirroring my experiences in Thailand. In fact, in local Mexican bars, there's a lot more of this than simply running upstairs.

Your hotel description sounds like some of the shitholes along Constitucion or in the alley, but hardly represents the average short time hotel in the ZN. Hotel Coahuila and Cascadas have been remodeled a couple of times since the '90's and are much like an early Motel 6, for lack of a better comparison. Rizo de Oro's rooms are decent. Even Hotel Jalos is OK. No bare bulbs, cable TV with porn channels, bathrooms are separate, if you want an extra towel you tell the guy at the desk and give him $1, no problem. Except for size, most compare favorably to places like Asoke Place, or that joint, whose name escapes me, that the Patpong girls like to use. Yes, the Thai girls are much cleaner but I've never had a MX bar girl refuse to disrobe. So, if you are going to discuss Hong Kong ladies you must include Cascadas hotel, not Rio Nilo. :D

Concerning performance, you comments about BBBJ are well taken, although it's becoming more prevalent in Thailand. But, to be fair, although apparently it happens, I've never had a girl rush me to finish. Of course, I almost always do hour sessions, so time is rarely a factor. But stories of such bad service aren't unique to Tijuana by any means.

The Thailand scene, as you pointed out, is still much more relaxed than the scene in the Zona bars (at least at Hong Kong and Adelita). But that seems to be changing. Short time used to be from 2 to 3 hours. Now it's sub-1 hour. Let's discuss this same time next year and see what has happened. Nothing good is my guess.

[QUOTE=Bunky;1568387]Like I said, I spent quite a bit of time in the Zona Norte back in the 90's. Just my opinion, but the internet ruined the place. Demand exploded and supply didn't keep up. (Thanks for nothing, Brockton O'Toole!) There just aren't enough good looking girls. The same dynamic is at work in Thailand, but the scene is so much bigger a punter who is willing to spend top dollar can still have a good time. That's why I'm allocating all my holiday money to the other side of the international date line these days.

Bunky.[/QUOTE]Agreed. The Internet ruined Tijuana, it's ruined BKK and deep into ruining Cambodia and Burma. I guess we do kill the things we love. The Thai scene is certainly much bigger, but I think it's debatable whether or not a punter willing to spend top dollar can have a better time in Thailand or Tijuana. It's no longer as clear-cut as it once was. I still go to Thailand every year, and have been doing so since 1999 (OK, I missed a couple of years, but only a couple) but I no longer go just for the P4P scene.

[QUOTE=TomSf;1568184]My buddy lives in Thailand and he just told me as of last week. Foreigners are only allowed to stay in Thailand something like 20 days. Then you have to walk over the border and reenter Thailand. Now the Thai government requires you to fly out and fly back in. You have to show proof of plane ticket. Now I did not read this in the paper I was told by my friend that lives there. Thing there just got a whole lot more expensive. People go there to save money but now with this new law Thailand will lose a lot of money. I will research this to confirm this and the date it takes effect. If anyone else knows about this please let us all know.[/QUOTE]OK, not quite correct but they are basically cracking down on long term stayers who continually do visa runs. There are a lot of foreigners in Thailand who live and work, or just retire, there full time on tourist visas. They usually have a 30 day visa, sometimes 15 days, depending on your nationality, and just go over the border (Laos, Cambodia, etc). And come straight back in to renew their visa. This has been happening for years. The government has now decided to crack down on this. If you do a visa run and have pages of Thai visas and not much else, they may refuse you enter. This only applies to land crossings. The plan is to extend this to fly in / fly out in August. If you only have one or two stamps and are planning on only staying 50 to 60 days, then this shouldn't be a problem.

Of course, there are lots of people who enter on a tourist visa and just stay there for years, they don't even bother with visa runs. Maximum fine for overstaying your visa in 20,000 baht (it's 500 baht per day). I've heard of people who have stayed for a few years and then left, paying the fine at the airport, and then coming back in a few days later. I'd expect this to change.

This does not apply to anyone on proper work visas, etc. It's only tourist visas. It was written up in one of the SE Asia papers a few days ago, I can't remember which one though.

[QUOTE=TomSf;1568184]My buddy lives in Thailand and he just told me as of last week. Foreigners are only allowed to stay in Thailand something like 20 days. Then you have to walk over the border and reenter Thailand. Now the Thai government requires you to fly out and fly back in. You have to show proof of plane ticket. Now I did not read this in the paper I was told by my friend that lives there. Thing there just got a whole lot more expensive. People go there to save money but now with this new law Thailand will lose a lot of money. I will research this to confirm this and the date it takes effect. If anyone else knows about this please let us all know.[/QUOTE]Doing research on the internet I found my friend was given the wrong info. It is just guys that keep hopping over the border consistently without getting a proper visa. I found nothing online about showing airplanes tickets. Sorry for any misinformation I should have googled before posting. So that accurate info is they can now deny your entry if you do this too much. My buddy is going toy try to get a student visa to help him live there.

[QUOTE=Phordphan]Generally speaking, Latinas have a nice ample ass and proper curves. * * * Your experience Tijuana doesn't mirror mine. One can sit with the girl as long as one wants, as long as one is willing to buy lady drinks, much the same as Thailand. * * * Hotel Coahuila and Cascadas have been remodeled a couple of times since the '90's and are much like an early Motel 6, for lack of a better comparison. Your comments about BBBJ are well taken, although it's becoming more prevalent in Thailand. * * * The Thailand scene, as you pointed out, is still much more relaxed than the scene in the Zona bars (at least at Hong Kong and Adelita). But that seems to be changing. Short time used to be from 2 to 3 hours. Now it's sub-1 hour. Let's discuss this same time next year and see what has happens. * * * The Internet ruined Tijuana, it's ruined BKK and deep into ruining Cambodia and Burma. I guess we do kill the things we love. The Thai scene is certainly much bigger, but I think it's debatable whether or not a punter willing to spend top dollar can have a better time in Thailand or Tijuana. It's no longer as clear-cut as it once was.[/QUOTE]Mr. Phordphan cogently notes the attraction of a "well-shaped" Latina with "proper curves." Sadly, many of the girls I see in Tijuana's Zona Norte are packing extra pounds these days. I realize lots of guys (both Mexican and Norteamericano) like well-upholstered girls. But I'm a sucker for a waifish brunette, so it's advantage Thailand for me. (Yes, I know the fast food bomb has exploded there too. But with *far* more girls in the scene it's easier to avoid the fatties). I'm also not adverse to well-executed cosmetic work. Granted, the porn star look is totally artificial. But the novelty doesn't wear off in the 90 minutes I spend with the go-go stunners, so that's a moot point.

As for the pre-romp experience, I take Mr. Phordphan's point that the Zona Norte clubs have improved somewhat over the years. The physical plants are nicer and the atmosphere more upscale. And of course the girls are happy to drink on your dime. I still contend, however, that the Thai girls' willingness to let their hands wander makes all the difference. The Latinas aren't prudes. But my "mileage" in Tijuana pales in comparison to Bangkok. And don't even get me started about the jump to hyperspace on Soi 6 in Pattaya or at places like the Telephone Club. Nothing like those places in Mexico.

Another factor that comes into play on this point is that the United States is very strict about drink driving. Unless you are willing to spend the night in Tijuana (and I'm not) you have to be rather abstemious when it comes to your drink because you will soon be driving a car in California. I know there is public transport (trolly and taxis) connecting Tijuana with places like Chula Vista, National City and even San Diego. But most punters travel by car and that introduces a risk that comes with serious legal consequences. In Thailand I can spend the evening on the [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] without fear of waking up in the monkey house.

I will further concede that the Hotel Coahuila and Hotel Cascadas are less scary than they used to be. But when I'm in Thailand, the girls come back to *MY* hotel, which is as nice as my budget permits. And I don't stay in the Thai equivalent of a Motel 6. (Shudder!) As for the other hotels mentioned, I will just note that if you pull a girl from the Adelita Bar or the Hong Kong Club, she will almost always insist on going to the "official" hotel. Those other places may be nice, but if you stay there you're forced to pull from second-tier clubs.

When it comes to the availability of a BBBJ, Mr. Phordphan is correct that some girls in Thailand will opt out. But in my experience it's only a tiny handful of newbies who work in the upscale soapies in Bangkok like Nataree. In Tijuana the default is a condomized blowjob, and it's an expensive hassle to do better. I'm sorry, but I'm old enough to remember when no self-respecting working girl would use a condom for a blowjob. Not having to worry about that in Thailand is a *BIG* advantage for me.

Lastly, I think Mr. Phordphan and I will have to agree to disagree in respect of which country is better for a punter willing to spend "top dollar." In Thailand I can stay in a five-star hotel (or lavish condo) that blows away any lodging in the Zona Norte (or the rest of Tijuana, for that matter). I can choose from a population of working girls that dwarfs those to be found in Tijuana. If I'm willing to pay top dollar I can persuade even the hottest go-go girl to go with me, and maybe even some coyote dancers. Then it's back to my lavish digs for a relaxed and patient session. (Shorter in duration than in the old days, but still better than the assembly line sex in Tijuana). Afterwards I can enjoy a nightcap with my mates or grab a bite to eat without worrying about the California Highway Patrol.

Good colloquy. Thanks to Mr. Phordphan for taking the time to weigh in on a topic I've been mulling over for some time.

Bunky.

[QUOTE=Bunky;1568822]Lastly, I think Mr. Phordphan and I will have to agree to disagree in respect of which country is better for a punter willing to spend "top dollar." In Thailand I can stay in a five-star hotel (or lavish condo) that blows away any lodging in the Zona Norte (or the rest of Tijuana, for that matter). I can choose from a population of working girls that dwarfs those to be found in Tijuana. If I'm willing to pay top dollar I can persuade even the hottest go-go girl to go with me, and maybe even some coyote dancers. Then it's back to my lavish digs for a relaxed and patient session. (Shorter in duration than in the old days, but still better than the assembly line sex in Tijuana). Afterwards I can enjoy a nightcap with my mates or grab a bite to eat without worrying about the California Highway Patrol.

Good colloquy. Thanks to Mr. Phordphan for taking the time to weigh in on a topic I've been mulling over for some time.

Bunky.[/QUOTE]Thanks! I enjoy the discussion. It's a bit like comparing chalk and cheese, but each location has its advantages and disadvantages.

Many of the MX ladies are on the chunky side, but bear in mind that they also service the locals, and most Mexican guys like chunky women. The Thai working girls who work the farang market, in general, wouldn't be touched with a 10 foot pole by the Thai punters. But there is no accounting for taste. Personally, I like technique and experience over beauty. I know a couple of chunky ladies in Tijuana who can suck the chrome off a bumper hitch, so I'm willing to overlook some physical imperfections! :D

And, as I mentioned in my first post, Thailand has things that just don't exist in Mexico. As you said, you'll never find BJ bars, soapies, etc., in Mexico. I will say that I wonder how long this will continue. The Thais, like the Mexicans, tend to be very patient and accommodating. Until they get pissed off, and then look out. Every "regular" Thai lady I know is aghast at things like an in-your-face BJ bar. I'm sure they, and certainly Soi 6's bars, violate Thailand's anti-brothel laws and stay open due to bribery. If, and when, Thailand cleans up its act, gets rid of the patronage system, look for places like this to get shut down. It won't happen overnight, but I think it will, and in the not too distant future. It'll be interesting to watch.

I completely agree about being able to take a girl back to ones own hotel. Much more convenient. But Thailand has the annoying bar fine, so from a cost standpoint it's not that much different. My question is, given the fact that more and more ladies are insisting on short time (and some stories I've read put those short times at about 30 minutes), how long before they refuse to go to a customer's hotel and insist on a close-by short time hotel? I suspect this may already be happening at some of the Jap-centric bars. Again, it'll be interesting to watch.

I disagree about staying overnight in Tijuana. There are hotels in all price ranges around the city. The "Love Motels" are very, very nice and very comfortable for overnights, too, although getting one on a weekend may not be possible. Drunk driving laws in the States had become so over-the-top that it's basically Prohibition by other means. So, I always get a decent hotel in Tijuana and party on.

Finally, let me point out that a punter spending top dollar was your term. So, let's discuss top dollar.

First, you're comparing 5-star hotels in BKK to Zona Norte accommodations and that's not an accurate comparison. There are no such hotels in Zona Norte, but there are a couple in Tijuana, and they are only a short cab ride away. Unless one has to stay at the Mandarin Oriental, Tijuana has plenty of decent accommodations on par with most of the mid-to-upper-range hotels in BKK. Tijuana isn't really an "International City" like BKK, and doesn't have a population of 10,000,000+, so there are certainly fewer 5-star hotels, but a top-dollar punter can certainly find a nice place to lay his head.

Next, few "top dollar" punters in Tijuana will limit themselves to the Zona. There are many other venues where ladies are available, plus escort agencies, web sites, etc., etc., where girls are easily available for all-night activities. It's also not all that difficult to get an all-nighter from Zona ladies, it just takes a bit more effort and money. But if you're willing to pay top dollar then there are beaucoup beautiful Latinas available, for as much time as you like. This is not unlike BKK in most respects, IMHO.

Next, the food. We all have to eat sometime. We all know Thai food is some of the best, and Thailand certainly has some of the best street food in the world. But what many people don't know is that Tijuana has become a very serious foodie destination. So, let's compare and contrast for the top-dollar punter. As one moves up the scale in BKK the food tends to be of the more Western variety (so we can get an accurate comparison, because the Mexican food in BKK sucks, as does the Thai food in Tijuana) and quality improves, but the prices increase exponentially. And the service is in inverse proportion to the amount paid, especially these days. Just as an example, I stopped going to Scirocco in State Tower a few years ago due to shitty service, and the problem has only gotten worse in most places. Now Tijuana has the Zona Gastronomico, and it's chock-full of some of the best places I've ever eaten. It's sort of a culinary hotbed, full of interesting small venues doing experimental food, traditional food and everything in between. My favorite, Mision 19, is one of the very best places I've ever eaten, regardless of price. I would put their menu up against anything in BKK. Another example. Their 4-course tasting menu (I can't get through their 7-course) is delicious, presented in very creative and beautiful ways, served by top-notch wait staff, and is about 440 pesos, or about $34, or 1,000 baht. Try getting that anywhere in BKK. Unless price is absolutely no object, one will be very hard pressed indeed to find Western food in BKK that compares to that of Tijuana.

How about drink? I know I love to hoist a few when I'm partying. Almost all Mexican beer puts swill like Singha and Chang to shame. The quality of cocktails in just about any higher-end establishment simply blow joints like Skybar out of the water. I can't speak for others, but my experience in BKK is that unless there is a competent Western bartender behind the bar the quality of the cocktails in upscale hotels and Western bars is mediocre at best.

The club scene is almost as interesting. Have you been to Calle Sexta recently? If you were around in the really bad days of 2008, the reinvention of the Tijuana nightlife and club scene is nothing short of amazing. Our prototypical top-dollar punter can get a decent place to stay, can avail himself of some pretty company for the night, can go dancing and clubbing in venues ranging from Ranchero and Banda, to Techno, to Salsa / Cumbia, to Frank Sinatra, eat in some excellent restaurants and get drunk on excellent beer and properly prepared cocktails.

Tijuana is no longer a dirty, sleepy border town. It's a city on the move and business seems to be booming. The economy is growing there and locals have far more money than ever before. (Again, much like Thailand). It's not BKK and never will be. BKK is an amazing place and I, for one, love it. It truly is "A show with everything but Yul Brynner." But, unlike 6 or 8 years ago, it's no longer the default destination for good food, cheap pussy and cheap booze. I come to Thailand for other reasons (and there are plenty), but one can do one's hard-core monkey business a lot closer to home now, and save the 20+ hour flight. :)