Manila

[QUOTE=D Cups;1159438]When in doubt, pass.[/QUOTE]And I thought you never met a pair of D cups you didn't like! :D

Forum members often ask specifics about where to find extra service massage parlors in the Metro Manila area. I found this list online. It seems to be fairly up to date. I can't say it's exhaustive but its listings seem to be in locations that are "relatively" safe and easy to find for foreigners. The original source is hotlinked into the beginning of the file. Enjoy.

[QUOTE=Skip Kost;1159350]Actually, it's less clear. If a public employee went to Manila on public business, he would probably be eligible for some skimpy per diem rate for meals and probably get reimbursed for his hotel based on the receipted amount that he paid. So let's say he gorges on free "all you can eat" hotel breakfast, skips lunch, and eats a cheap supper at Jollibee or McDos. So by skimping on actual meal costs he has enough left over to buy an MBC freelancer every other night. If the public learned about it, they'd scream bloody murder about how their tax money went to feed the guy's little "wankie," and you'd likely be among them. So how is your idea about spending travel allowance on a girl instead of steak, and having it concealed in a credit card receipt, any different? The public employee's allowance was a set amount he can count on, and so is your daily expense allowance. Your argument seems to be that you're going to get the flat amount anyway, so why not just conceal what you're spending it on. Is there a difference in the two situations?[/QUOTE]Wow. I had no idea that this subject would cause this much controversy. Although to FreebieFan's point, I guess new subjects don't come up much, so maybe people are resistant to change.

Frankly, I'm not sure this is the right venue for having a political discussion on public vs private sector spending, but you asked a question and I'll try to answer it. It's difficult to answer your question directly as you've mixed a few issues together. It's kind of like asking someone,"Do your parents know you're gay?". It doesn't matter if they say yes or no, the question already makes the assertion that the person is gay, whether or not they actually are. So with that in mind, here we go.

First, there is a tax payer misconception that any public worker can only spend their money on what the public deems appropriate. For example, a government toll booth worker is paid entirely with tax payer money. If that toll booth worker decides on their own time to go to a strip club, get a drink and a lap dance and pay for it with the money they've earned on the job, how is it any of those tax payer's business? It's not. People try to make it their business, but it's not. Keep in mind there is a huge difference between an elected public sector worker and someone who is hired directly by the government. I'm assuming in your scenario that this is a hired public sector worker and not one who was elected into office. I make that assumption because in order to make a fair comparison, I have to use myself and I was not elected into my position at my company by taxpayers.

Second, should a private sector employee be held to the same tax payer misconception as a public sector worker? Two answers. First, no, simply because the question is based on a misconception that shouldn't be there to begin with. Second, no, because a private sector business can decide in a free market environment how they wish to spend their money. At the end of the day, the company made their money through supply and demand trading, and not because they forced the community to pay a percentage of their income to support said business whether they want to or not. Now, that company can have a say in how they wish their employees conduct themselves outside of work if they feel certain behavior would have a negative impact on the business. Keep in mind that this is only an issue if that behavior becomes or could become consumer knowledge. For example, if a UPS driver gets a DUI, that employee will likely lose their driving position if not their job altogether. But if a data entry clerk at UPS gets a DUI, they would likely not be as affected as the driver as driving responsibly isn't part of their job description. Now, as far as me concealing what I spend money on, it does not have any connection to company policy, nor do I feel I would lose my job if it were revealed how I like to spend my off time when I'm in the Philippines. In fact, my boss's boss is crazier than I am when he's in the Philippines. However, all individuals in this world carry their own sets of values and beliefs. With that in mind, I don't truly know the values and beliefs of all my superiors in the company. So, I choose not to let my superiors know how I spend my off time no matter where I'm at and what I'm doing. Simply because, as you pointed out with the taxpayers, people make judgment calls on other people's decisions based on their own values and beliefs. So, it's not that I only want to conceal a bar fine, I want to conceal all of my private business. This is something that I'm sure a lot of people in this forum would understand. Privacy is very important especially when one engages in the types of activities discussed here.

Third, we come to the topic that has generated the most conversation. Who's money does a daily stipend / per diem / travel allowance belong to, the company or the individual? Perhaps this is where we will have to agree to disagree. I personally feel that this money is an added part of my salary for the time I'm willing to travel away from home for the company. And as part of my salary, I can choose to do with it as I please. So, when I hear people say to just use my personal money on certain purchases, I agree. But I feel that I am, in fact, using my personal money. And frankly, so does the company I work for, so I'm not sure where the issue arises that I'm somehow stealing from the company as someone else mentioned. Now, perhaps some of the people who have an issue with this happen to work for companies that do not treat the daily allowance in this way, and that's fine. They agreed to that when they took the job and decided to travel for their company. But again, their experience doesn't equate to my experience.

At the end of the day, I simply asked the question if bar fines can be put on a credit card. How I wish to use that information is up to me. But, I do love conversation and I appreciate and value other people's positions and opinions. So, we can continue to discuss this, or we can move on to another topic. I actually have some more questions to ask, so I'll start new posts for those.

[QUOTE=Wolfy187; 1159447]Petey, my suggestion is this,

Go out and get some contacts for day time relaxation, but also go out before work for dinner at like 5-6pm take a girl home for all night. And while you are working on the computer, let her sleep or watch tv, and if you get annoyed with work, get a nice BBBJ while you are on a conference call or returning emails.

My favorite thing was working on the comp when getting BBBJ and no one know about it. Enjoy.

W[/QUOTE]That's hilarious. I don't get too many opportunities to work from the hotel, but when I do I'm totally going to try this out. You all have such great ideas here.

[QUOTE=Susu Lover; 1159402]Gosh guys sharpen up! If someone were to "google" the name of the billed credit card info it points STRAIGHT to this site! DUH. Go ahead. Type in "H* W* L* E* C*" into a google search and see what you come up with.

Please don't post cc info.

You guys kill me sometimes. [/QUOTE]Great point Susu Lover. I will do my best to not repeat that. I didn't even realize I did it when I replied back. Although by telling us exactly what to type into google, you kind of did it too. LOL

[QUOTE=Petey Peso;1159592]Great point Susu Lover. I will do my best to not repeat that. I didn't even realize I did it when I replied back. Although by telling us exactly what to type into google, you kind of did it too. LOL[/QUOTE]Might be a good idea to ask Jackson to remove the info from your original post. It will drop out of google on the next crawl.

[QUOTE=Irony Monger;1159600]Might be a good idea to ask Jackson to remove the info from your original post. It will drop out of google on the next crawl.[/QUOTE]I sent a PM to the forum admin. I'm assuming that's Jackson. I gave him the name of the place and the post numbers. Hopefully this should clear it up.

[QUOTE=Petey Peso;1159592]Great point Susu Lover. I will do my best to not repeat that. I didn't even realize I did it when I replied back. Although by telling us exactly what to type into google, you kind of did it too. LOL[/QUOTE]Long time back, a sweet girl in Malaysia I was talking to googled my yahoo messenger name. And guess what. It redirected her to this website where she read about all my various adventures. She sent me a text advising me of this then never spoke to me ever again.

Moral of story, separate your names!

What prices should I expect to pay for bar fine in Makati? I know it will be different in different bars. But just range. I definitely want long time. I heard figures like 3900 pesos for bar fine, then you have to give the girl 2000 pesos and tip her.

How about street girls? Are they relatively safe in makati? I would not touch a street girl in AC, but last time I was in makati, the street girls where smoking hot.

Thanks for any info, I will be there on June 6 and 7th.

The prices more or less work out to the same as edsa entertainment complex. Honestly its been ages since I've bar fined but this was my friend's experiences.

I was in mirrors and blush Wednesday night. I have been pretty down on burgos the last few years. But I was surprised.

These two bars were rocking with lots of hot chics. And the beer was cheap! I think like p75 per smb.

As usual I was the only foriegner in both bars.

I hope the street becomes popular again. It really is an amazing source of fun for anyone manila bound.

[QUOTE=SixteenVolt182; 1159975]What prices should I expect to pay for bar fine in Makati? I know it will be different in different bars. But just range. I definitely want long time. I heard figures like 3900 pesos for bar fine, then you have to give the girl 2000 pesos and tip her.

How about street girls? Are they relatively safe in makati? I would not touch a street girl in AC, but last time I was in makati, the street girls where smoking hot.

Thanks for any info, I will be there on June 6 and 7th. [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=D Cups;1159593]Hi CM, well, if the the cups have a dick down below count me out. I like surprises but not that kind of surprise.[/QUOTE]I highly recommend the newly released movie, Hangover 2. It is set in Thailand. It does not have as many hilarious surprise transitions as the original Hangover movie, but there's a fair amount of monger humor in it that passed over the heads of most of the youthful audience when I attended-and some surprises along this theme that did not pass over the heads of anybody in the audience.

[QUOTE=SixteenVolt182; 1159975]What prices should I expect to pay for bar fine in Makati? I know it will be different in different bars. But just range. I definitely want long time. I heard figures like 3900 pesos for bar fine, then you have to give the girl 2000 pesos and tip her.

How about street girls? Are they relatively safe in makati? I would not touch a street girl in AC, but last time I was in makati, the street girls where smoking hot.

Thanks for any info, I will be there on June 6 and 7th. [/QUOTE]Your info on barfine in Makati sounds correct. But if you get there during Happy Hour, you can usually get a half-price on the barfine. And better yet, if you just talk to the girl you can probably talk her into just coming to your hotel when she gets off work. I've never missed with this approach. My worst experience was that the really hot girl who I wanted to come to my room go barfined by someone else, so she sent her somewhat less hot friend. I was horny enough that I kept her and she performed admirably for a second-stringer. As for 2, 000 plus time. I consider 2, 000 to BE the tip, and I've encountered no more than token attempts to extort more money.

[QUOTE=Petey Peso;1159588]Third, we come to the topic that has generated the most conversation. Who's money does a daily stipend / per diem / travel allowance belong to, the company or the individual? I personally feel that this money is an added part of my salary for the time I'm willing to travel away from home for the company. And as part of my salary, I can choose to do with it as I please.[/QUOTE]At risk of carrying on too long about this, I think the bottom line does not rest on some set of misconceptions about whose decision it is to decide how public or private employees use their expense allowances.

Several months ago a terrorist bomb exploded in a bus on EDSA and killed four or five people. GE observed that his company forbids its employees in the Phils to ride on public transit precisely because of the risk of terrorist attacks. I argued that this was illogical, because the probability of being killed in a private auto accident was much greater than the probability of being one of the few killed over the years in bomb attacks on Manila public transit. He pointed out that from the vantage point of his company, it's not about logical probability, it's about the likely external perception of irresponsibility on the part of the company for not having taken preventative action. His point made sense.

I think the bottom line of this discussion is similarly about external perception, not about our rights to use expense account money in any way we choose. I remember hearing a popular elected official say that his metaphor for making ethical decisions in his work as a public servant was the "7-11 rule": if he couldn't justify it after the fact to average folks he'd meet in the 7-11, he shouldn't do it. Public servants live in much more of a fishbowl than does the average private sector employee. Just ask Mark Sanford, Eliot Spitzer, John Ensign, John Edwards, Bill Clinton, and many others whether their decisions about what they do in private rest on some legal basis of privacy or in some court of public perceptions. Clearly it's the latter, and although non-elected public officials may be in slightly less of a fishbowl scenario, even their actions can come to roost in the court of public perception.

Arguably there's a much greater zone of discretion for private sector employees, and they're generally less prone to the fishbowl situation. But even there the pressure of external perception can come crashing down on the employee who overdoes it. If you get caught with your pants down and it hurts the company image, the employer is not going to be particularly forgiving, and the private sector employer has a lot more latitude to can your ass and give you no recourse to legal protection.

So in the bottom line it's really about external appearances, not whether you have a right to spend your expense account however you want. If you happen to have a lot of latitude within your organization's culture for partying on the company dime, more power to you. But keep in mind that the boss's boss may not be in that organizational role forever, and maybe his replacement is somebody in the organization who's been taking notes on actions by others in the organization-that can be turned against them if they become competitors or if he perceives them to be a threat to his authority.

FF gave some very good advice several days ago: do your mongering on your own dime.

I agree, as I usually do, with Skip. Plus, I would add, it's simply not a smart thing to do. Companies can write off the business expenses of their employees as legitimate tax deductions. I don't think though that using expense money to party with hookers falls into the category of legitimate business expense, unless the tax rules in Europe and the US have gotten a lot more lax since I used to live there. Beyond that, anyone on business travel is, whether on the clock or off, implicitly at least representing his company. Getting caught with your pants down on the company's dime doesn't really create a terribly positive image of the corporation one is ostensibly representing. In my mind, it's not about the fine points of ethical behavior. It's about common sense and discretion.

GE

[QUOTE=GoodEnough;1160061]I agree, as I usually do, with Skip. Plus, I would add, it's simply not a smart thing to do. Companies can write off the business expenses of their employees as legitimate tax deductions. I don't think though that using expense money to party with hookers falls into the category of legitimate business expense, unless the tax rules in Europe and the US have gotten a lot more lax since I used to live there. Beyond that, anyone on business travel is, whether on the clock or off, implicitly at least representing his company. Getting caught with your pants down on the company's dime doesn't really create a terribly positive image of the corporation one is ostensibly representing. In my mind, it's not about the fine points of ethical behavior. It's about common sense and discretion.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Petey Peso;1159007]...But to your point, if someone knew for sure what the money was being spent on (I. E. The yankee of my wankie) , they may lower the amount allotted for the trip or start requiring itemized bills. That's why I like the name of the charge to be vague. It would be a little obvious if the charge was for "Angel's Suck and Fuck Palace." LOL. Trust me when I say, I have no problem throwing my own money down for fun and I certainly will especially when I pick up a FL. [b]So, to your last point, this is not about ripping off the company. On the contrary, it's a way for me to show them that I'm not ripping them off. C'mon, if I decide to use my money on a girl instead of a steak dinner, isn't that my choice?[/b] Hahaha. Hope this clears things up.[/QUOTE]Agree with GE on all counts, except to me its all about all of the above: ethical behaviour, common sense and discretion.

PP, if you had an 'entertainment expense' of sorts and chose to entertain your clients at Rio in Macau or at Asian Entertainment in MNL for example, that would be a different story. Although few western companies doing business in Asia would agree and accept that this is 'part and parcel' of doing business in Asia, and provide for this correspondingly, if anything because it takes some creativity to account for it (overheads?).