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[QUOTE=AlexDeuce;3084852]It squeezes out other tourists, especially families, who spend infinitely more money per head. It's great short-term cash flow, but in the later years, when equity shifts, the hookers and the John's become a nuisance.[/QUOTE]What do you mean squeezes out? You think Medellin is operating at capacity?
The only argument that could be made is that other tourist doesn't want to travel to a place built on sex tourism, but Pattaya, Phuket, and Rio shows that to be bullshit.
[QUOTE=AlexDeuce;3084971]The hell they don't.
What the f are you spending money on, tricking in the park? The families are eating, buying goods, running up room service, and the parents are drinking at the hotel bars. At most, you're in Gustos buying an overpriced bottle and a ***** they won't see a dime of. Even if the frequency of the visitors is lower, they still make more money overall, or PPA, as one would say in the restaurant business. It's not a guess here.[/QUOTE]Money towards prepagos go more into the economy than what a family tourist would.
Men give money to women who then use that money on bills, rent, Healthcare, utilities, childcare, local goods and services.
A family is coming and doing what with their money exactly? To a rich international hotel operator? To a large restaurant group? To a museum?
Some of yall are so out of touch with basic economics but that's not surprising, you're the same ones tipping 50% for basic sex them bitching about how much the prices are inflating.
[QUOTE=VoodooJones;3084306]I don't think it's political to point out that the most of the world has been dumping the USD since 2025. The Brazilian real was 6.18 end of 2024 and is now 5.12, regardless of any uptick in the past months. The EUR was 0.97 end of 2024 and is now 0.86. It was 1.02 in 2022, extremely rare for the dollar to be more than the euro. And the answer to why this is happening is obvious.[/QUOTE]People aren't "dumping" usd, the government does things to strengthen or weaken USD in order to affect global trade and influence foreign investment.
When the USD is cheap, it's cheaper for foreigners to import us goods to their country and cheaper for them to invest their money in the states. That's a way to stave off recession and encourage trade deals.
This is economics 101. This is probably solely the reason recession probability is at the lowest it's been in years.
[QUOTE=Woodman09;3084982]I predict the girl situation in Lleras is at an end soon -- Immigration is Taking names and fingerprints.
[URL]https://www.instagram.com/reel/DdTo7KCh9dH/?stkn=MWFpMm8yem1vODRtbQ%3D%3D[/URL][/QUOTE]I plan to go to Colombia in 2027 and had no plans to hang out in Lleras even before this development. So, it's not deterring me. In fact, I hope this does result in cleaning the park up and getting it back to how it used to be when I first started going to Medellin. Things have just gotten out of hand, and the whole scene can benefit by becoming more discreet.
[QUOTE=Dinosaur9;3085000]Money towards prepagos go more into the economy than what a family tourist would.
Men give money to women who then use that money on bills, rent, Healthcare, utilities, childcare, local goods and services.
A family is coming and doing what with their money exactly? To a rich international hotel operator? To a large restaurant group? To a museum?
Some of yall are so out of touch with basic economics but that's not surprising, you're the same ones tipping 50% for basic sex them bitching about how much the prices are inflating.[/QUOTE]The discussion was concerning the cleanup of the park and centro. Prepago has shit to do with the discussion, as they're not banning that, nor are they banning picking up a girl at the club. They're focusing on the overt, in-your-face solicitation.
Your attempt to conflate the issues is laughable. Again, you picking up a chick and spending money on her in the club adds value. You standing in a location gawking at women is a public nuisance. As usual and proven repeatedly, mongers over estimate their economic value both short and long term to a community. What's so hard about, taking your ass in the club or restaurant and off the street.
I definitely don't agree with exorbitant tipping. It's been many years since I studied economics but as I remember it restaurant groups and hotel operators employ and pay people who then use the money to buy goods and services and pay their housing and utilities. Some tourism sector employees, like some sex workers, use money they earn to buy booze and dope. The surge in North American sex tourists that started around 2005 did not disrupt the Colombian significantly because the neighborhood in Medellin where it's centered is an outlier in most ways. It's also a tiny slice of the country. The impact is very noticeable in the zone surrounding Provenza and Parque Lleras in the form of loud bars and relentless construction projects. In the rest of the city it is not a thing, nor is it a thing in the rest of the country. If I spent a few weeks out of the year here and rarely ventured out of that zone, I believe I would see Medellin very differently.
[QUOTE=Dinosaur9;3085000]Money towards prepagos go more into the economy than what a family tourist would.
Men give money to women who then use that money on bills, rent, Healthcare, utilities, childcare, local goods and services.
A family is coming and doing what with their money exactly? To a rich international hotel operator? To a large restaurant group? To a museum?
Some of yall are so out of touch with basic economics but that's not surprising, you're the same ones tipping 50% for basic sex them bitching about how much the prices are inflating.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Dinosaur9;3084998]What do you mean squeezes out? You think Medellin is operating at capacity?
The only argument that could be made is that other tourist doesn't want to travel to a place built on sex tourism, but Pattaya, Phuket, and Rio shows that to be bullshit.[/QUOTE]Another deflection from the subject. It is not a capacity issue. It is about discouraging local and family tourism and changing the area's reputation as a sex tourism destination. Prostitution is legal in Colombia and represents a significant part of the economy, but that does not mean the city has to remain dependent on sex tourism forever. Your inability to understand that basic distinction is embarrassing.
Nobody, especially me, is saying that sex tourism does not help build cities and destinations in the short term. I have explicitly stated that it can provide substantial economic benefits during the early stages of development by generating revenue, employment, and investment. Pretending otherwise is either dishonest or intellectually lazy.
The long term can be very different. Once a tourism base has been established and other industries have developed, revenue from sex tourism can shift from being necessary, to being minimal, and eventually to being viewed as a nuisance, particularly when overt solicitation damages the destination's reputation or discourages local and family tourism.
The cities you mentioned illustrate this shift. Pattaya, Rio, and Phuket have all taken steps to reduce or regulate overt sex tourism outside designated areas. These efforts include closing some venues, relocating others, increasing enforcement, and restricting entry for certain foreign nationals associated with sexual exploitation and related violations. If you cannot recognize that pattern, your understanding of tourism development and basic economics is far more limited than you seem to realize.
The conclusion is straightforward. A destination may benefit from sex tourism in the short term while later deciding that its long term economic and social interests are better served by diversifying its tourism base and reducing overt sex tourism. The current movement and worldwide push over the last six to ten years should disabuse you of the ridiculous notion that a destination known for sex tourism cannot change its focus or eventually impose much stricter restrictions.
[QUOTE=Jicks;3084995]Solution is simple. Don't go to park lleras or centro. Just stary with other venue casa and clubs. All these are occurring due to exploitation by steaming llera park in various social media. Colombia is not a safe country for solo or family tourism as per state department. This is good in a way.. rates will come down. Medellin places will be only for experienced and risk takers..[/QUOTE]This part.
As a matter of fact, Colombia became a very popular tourism destination for Dominican families. They continue to be among the top nationality of tourists. They buy inexpensive hotel, airfare, and excursion packages that cost less than the same two weeks in Juan Dolio or Punta Cana. The packages include domestic air between Bogota and Medellin, tours of museums, optional day trips to Guatape, and hotel accommodations. Wingo provides the airlift and they developed a network of Dominican tour operators. The tours do not include Parque Lleras but they do include guided tours of Centro. Cartagena is not a primary package destination because of its high cost. The groups use a few of the hotels on la 70. La 70 is relatively peaceful by Dominican standards.
[QUOTE=MrEnternational;3084954]Same as Dominican Republic. In DR all the families and couples go to Punta Cana. In Colombia all the families and couples go to Cartagena.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Jicks;3084995]Solution is simple. Don't go to park lleras or centro. Just stary with other venue casa and clubs. All these are occurring due to exploitation by steaming llera park in various social media. Colombia is not a safe country for solo or family tourism as per state department. This is good in a way.. rates will come down. Medellin places will be only for experienced and risk takers..[/QUOTE]I doubt prices will ever go back down. Usually they just stop going up for a while.
I swear some of you are so far up your own asses with self-importance.
Reconcile this for me:
How do so many of you complain that "quality is down" in Medellin, because girls are travelling a lot more now. To Panama, Barcelona / EU, Costa Rica, etc. Then in the same breath say that monger tourism is somehow this massive percentage of the local economy? Because if there was so much monger money floating around, wouldn't the girls just stay at home?
Beyond that, I can also see that too many of you are not only in a gringo monger bubble, you're also stuck in the Poblado bubble. And if you are, how the fuck have I never heard a single one of you talk about the massive health industrial complex that makes up a huge part of the Poblado / Tesoro area?
I'm still in Medellin, and I'm here primarily for health reasons. I'm staying in Belen (now Laureles), with all my appointments in Poblado and Tesoro. I'm walking into massive tower blocks where every single floor is dozens of specialists, labs, clinics, you name it. I went to a place over in. San Antonio, I think, which was a tower block just for eye care. Floor after floor of dozens of opthamologists, opticians, labs, etc. I've never seen anything like that in my life.
And, even with the heathcare, it's not aimed primarily at the typical gringo health tourist. I could barely find doctors with availability who speak English. The labs don't have anyone there who speak English, either. Yet the places are packed. You can hardly get appointments. From what I could see, it's locals, plus latinos from other countries. I spotted some other Caribbean nationals in one place as well.
As for "what tourists are coming here? I'll offer up a couple of anecdotes:
- I flew in from Santo Domingo on Arajet. The flight was 80-90% full, and from what I saw, it was almost all Dominicanos. There was this one family in front of me at check-in (and later baggage claim) that were pissing me off because it was an early flight and I was sleepy. 9 of them. Mother, father, and what looked like their older children and nieces or whatever. Huge group. Definitely tourists. Sitting next to me were two late-20's, early-30's Dominicanas that I started talking to. Their English was better than my Spanish, and we chatted about Medellin. I told them this was my first trip. They said they go all the time, and that I'll love it and started telling me all the places I should go check out and restaurants to try.
- When I did get to Medellin, I stayed at a spot in Belen close to the LOS Molinos mall. I'd say about 60-75 rooms based on my rough count of floors and rooms per floor. I stayed a week and a half, and I never heard a word of English spoken while I was there. All the other guests were Spanish-speaking as far as I could tell. I saw families with small children. Couples. Groups of young women. A few groups of older couples. I was one of the only single men there. Certainly the only Black one from what I observed.
I ran into another younger black guy from Florida in the building across the street. He's a digital nomad and traveller, going from country to country. He was doing Spanish classes and salsa lessons. Definitely not the monger type. I saw lots of other foreigners staying in and around the immediate area, too. Pretty much all of them Spanish-speaking from what I noticed.
Beyond that, the local economy is self-sustaining:
- I've been to 4-5 malls now, and they're packed all hours of the day. I went to Oviedo mall because my doctor is in the tower attached to it and, at midday on a Thursday, the place is overrun with people having lunch, chatting, socializing. A few obvious gringos here and there. But all I saw were wealthier Colombians. Young people, grannies with their old gal-pals, families, professional women and their friends. It was lively, bustling, people spending money. In other places, I notice all the couples holding hands, going to get ice cream, or to have dinner in nice restaurants I was in. Husbands / fathers taking their wives and teenage children out to eat.
I say all of this to say that this idea that somehow the city will shrivel up and die if degenerates like you (us) stop coming is completely fucking ridiculous. This is a vibrant city with multifaceted life. Frankly, it offers a lot more than a lot of the places most of you come from. Oviedo mall, which I mentioned, is nicer than 90% of all the malls I've ever been inside in the US.
The problem, as I see it, is that westerners simply do not know how to handle sexual freedom and ease of access. Prostitution is legal here, and it's really just part of the fabric of daily life. Guys fly down here and lose their fucking minds because of cheap pussy. I've run into a few parceros at casas I've gone to. Regular dudes getting off of work with helmets in hand, just needing to bust a nut so they can get on with their lives. Guys here have been buying pussy forever. And that will never stop.
People hate all the extra shit being blasted all over Youtube making the city look like an open-air brothel, which it's not even close to being. Colombians don't strike me as vulgar people with a loud, vulgar culture. Even the Airbnb listings all seem to now have some house rule about bringing in guests, banning sex tourism, exploitation or women / minors, etc. People really are tired of the bullshit.
It's only taken me 2 weeks to completely understand exactly why they want to get rid of the worst of some of us. And looking at some of the investments on the way, and already started, clearly Medellin can do without a few monger bucks.
[QUOTE=Kazeu;3084937]For a while, one thing that set Colombia apart from its neighbors in the region was the low cost of living. If you want to actually LIVE in Colombia, it was a great deal. Decent living at a low cost. All that has changed now though.[/QUOTE]It has gotten much more expensive in the big three cities but in the smaller cities it is still cheap living. My rent for a brand new three bedroom apartment is still less than $500. Usd a month. Life is good here if you know how to roll and the chicas can't be beat if you aren't going with full time prostitutes.
[QUOTE=MrEnternational;3084913]Do you know how many people and places that same thing was thought about? Help in Rio, gone. Doll House in Santo Domingo, gone. Pablo Escobar, gone. Nobody and nothing is too big to be wiped away.[/QUOTE]Good point, fortunately it doesn't affect me or you either way.
[QUOTE=ChrisD1680;3085096]
Beyond that, I can also see that too many of you are not only in a gringo monger bubble, you're also stuck in the Poblado bubble. And if you are, how the fuck have I never heard a single one of you talk about the massive health industrial complex that makes up a huge part of the Poblado / Tesoro area?
[/QUOTE]Because this isn't a Health Services board. I mean not that kind of health service at least.
[QUOTE=Manizales911;3085097]It has gotten much more expensive in the big three cities but in the smaller cities it is still cheap living. My rent for a brand new three bedroom apartment is still less than $500. Usd a month. Life is good here if you know how to roll and the chicas can't be beat if you aren't going with full time prostitutes.[/QUOTE]I may have to expand my horizons in that direction in the near future.