General Info

I don't pretend to know what's going on with US/Phil relations because I don't, but Naome Klein talks about that kind of behavior in her excellent book The Shock Doctrine, the Rise Of Disaster Capitalism.

[QUOTE=Starchild2012; 1498958]You are right. They ain't going no where. Its not a relief and rescue mission but creating a base for American empire. Like they did in Haiti. Everyone must read the below article and today UK is sending its biggest warship to the region. One of the biggest aircraft carriers from US is already there.

[url][url]http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-military-continues-massive-build-up-in-philippine-disaster-zone-took-over-air-traffic-in-tacloban/.[/url][/QUOTE]

The USA has $16, 000, 000, 000 in debt. Just tell us to go, we can divert funding to fixing the healthcare website.

[QUOTE=Starchild2012;1498958]The nuclear powered aircraft carrier USS George Washington, with 5, 000 sailors and 80 aircraft, is in the Leyte Gulf, along with its strike group of two guided-missile cruisers, two guided-missile destroyers, a cargo ship, an oceanographic survey ship and a submarine tender. These are to be joined by 3 amphibious warfare ships and 2 littoral combat ships. Some 850 US troops are on the ground in Leyte and are to be joined by an additional 1, 000 US Marines in the next two days.[/QUOTE]All large aircraft carriers travel as a battle group. Almost always present with any such carrier are one or more surface ships such as cruisers, destroyers, cargo ships (UnRep must occur reguarly for all such ships) , and possibly a medical ship (hospital) , and boats (attack submarines). Massive aircraft carriers must be defended (by other ships / planes) at all times, and never travel alone. An military assault ship can produce tens of thousands of gallons of fresh water per day. You'd have to be crazy to say no to fresh water and dozens of helicopters that can bring it (and medivac victims).

[QUOTE=Starchild2012; 1498958]While this build-up is referred to as 'providing assistance, ' it is clear that the US military is just not 'assisting' their Philippine counterparts, but commanding them. US forces are operating the air traffic control tower at the Tacloban airport, controlling which flights are allowed to land and take off there.

'We are controlling 250 ops (operations) per day, ' USA Air Force Master Sgt. Clinton Dykes told the US military publication Stars and Stripes on November 15. The number of operations has increased significantly since then.[/QUOTE]Oh THANKS BE TO GOD (that someone has taken the initiative)! It would be just as well if the British or Chinese navies could have provided similar assisstance had they been on hand. WHO provided the help is unimiportant. What is important is that the US military is suited for such relief efforts. What, you want relief efforts left to Filipino expertise?

[QUOTE=Starchild2012;1498958]The Philippine military is being deployed as armed crowd control in the city of Tacloban, implementing a de facto system of martial law, with an 8 pm–6 am curfew. The hundreds of armed military and police patrolling streets are further supplemented by the armed private guards who defend the homes and property of the wealthy.[/QUOTE]That's what they are good at. Let them keep crowd control with their presence. Those who control them are ill-equiped to handle this situation (as witnessed by the dozens of such news reports).

Sorry for the generic post. I have searched throughout this forum and I still can't find the best places for the best beaches and the best place for mongering. It looks like the 2 are exclusive, is that the case with the Philipines? Boracacy doesn't seem to have a freelance scene, is that the case with everywhere. If you guys could list good areas I'll do further research in to them.

Thanks in advance.

[QUOTE=Wjmpsr;1499390]The USA has $16, 000, 000, 000 in debt.[/QUOTE]That was last week. [url]http://www.usdebtclock.org/[/url]

I've just tuned into this debate, and it's entirely possible that I've missed something, but the comments I've read so far seem overly simplistic. As one who has followed the arguments here over the desirability or lack thereof of an enhanced US military presence, my conclusion is that the US has multiple motivations for it's massive response to the Haiyan disaster. First and foremost, the US did what it did because it's the only nation that could, given its military assets and the level of technology to which those assets have access. The need was undeniable, and without the sizable rapid deployment, more people would have died. A secondary benefit is doubtless the ability to demonstrate to China (and other Asian countries) its indispensability and perhaps it's continued primacy. That the US also wished to create a tacit argument for the expansion of its military presence here is also likely true, but it's at best a tertiary motivation.

The Philippine military is almost pathetically starved of equipment, supplies and expertise, as reiterated in the national and international press. It was, and remains incapable of providing meaningful support to the victims of the disaster. The government here is inept, indifferent and equally incapable of doing much but spewing empty rhetoric.

The desire of the US to re establish military hegemony in the Philippines is, in my opinion, over stated. It also ignores the huge deployment of military assets sent by other countries such as the UK and Japan, which responded by sending the largest ships available to them. I doubt anyone believes that these two countries seek any sort of long-term advantage in the country

Given the history of US-Philippines relations, ascribing some more sinister motivations to the US response is, I suppose, inevitable but in this case it's too facile and, I believe, incorrect. For the most part, I believe that the enormity of the entire international response was proportionate to the enormity of the calamity and was motivated by a genuine desire to do what the government is both in capable and unwilling to do.

GE

Manny beat the shit out of an American. All is well in the world and Filipinos have something to cheer about.

Wonder if he gets the babes to his right as part of his purse?

[QUOTE=Cunning Stunt;1499968]Wonder if he gets the babes to his right as part of his purse?[/QUOTE]He'll need to get after that before CS or AR gets to manhandle and photograph the girls getting jizzed.

Actually we are 16. 7 T in the hole. Other than ourselves, the US owes China the most and then Japan

Excellent comment, GE. Bravo!

[QUOTE=GoodEnough; 1499918]

The Philippine military is almost pathetically starved of equipment, supplies and expertise, as reiterated in the national and international press. It was, and remains incapable of providing meaningful support to the victims of the disaster. The government here is inept, indifferent and equally incapable of doing much but spewing empty rhetoric.[/QUOTE]This is true on a staggering scale. I've spent the past several nights at Villamor Airbase in Pasay participating in OPLAN Hatid, the volunteer organised and run operation that drives Yolanda survivors / refugees from the base to a relative's home or one of the tent cities sent up in metro Manila. Though on an airbase the air force's involvement aiding the people once they deplane is minimal, mostly limited to directing traffic and sweeping up litter. There's a hospital on the base with military medical staff, but people are examined in a tent by outside medical volunteers. SM sent a mobile clinic to assist. The military has buses and trucks that could be used to transport people to far off places such a Laguna and Bagiuo but instead volunteers have to save the day. The government's efforts are being run by the Department of Social Welfare's (DSWD) social workers and these employees, almost all women, have done wonderfully. Volunteers man the kitchen, distribute clothing, etc and a few companies such as Smart, Globe, and Coca Cola have booths there.

I can understand why it was chaotic and poorly run in Tacloban because the local government was shattered. But I think there is little if any excuse for the hands-off approach taken by the military and civilian authorities here.

[QUOTE=GoodEnough;1499918]The desire of the US to re establish military hegemony in the Philippines is, in my opinion, over stated. It also ignores the huge deployment of military assets sent by other countries such as the UK and Japan, which responded by sending the largest ships available to them. I doubt anyone believes that these two countries seek any sort of long-term advantage in the country[/QUOTE]Sometimes people think first about the "right thing to do". Israel also cannot be looking for some long term interests. [url]http://dailynightly.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/11/15/21477819-dr-nancy-snyderman-in-awe-of-israeli-medics-in-philippines[/url]

I'm sure the many foreign specialists in this forum will know more but what is the additional marginal cost of providing this 'aid' by any of the countries.

The ships are already owned, the staff are already paid, the troops are paid etc. The bandages and dressings were going to be disposed when they go out of date if not used. The Drs and medics that Australia are sending can broaden their experiences and add to their stories for their speaking circuit and fundraising activities.

Even Australia sending containers from Australia to Phil shouldn't cost too much. Most of the ships return to Asia empty at the moment due to our love of imported goods.

I'm not being cynical, just pointing out that in many case there is not a lot 'out of pocket' for the donor countries even though it may get dressed up as $$$mm.

In fact, these type of events I would consider are excellent skills development opportunities for leaders. The troops get to be involved in something tangible instead of yet another drill exercise.

And, no doubt, there will be a few deposits of DNA and a couple of future marriages I'm sure.

[QUOTE=BrainDrain; 1500249]I'm sure the many foreign specialists in this forum will know more but what is the additional marginal cost of providing this 'aid' by any of the countries.

The ships are already owned, the staff are already paid, the troops are paid etc. The bandages and dressings were going to be disposed when they go out of date if not used. The Drs and medics that Australia are sending can broaden their experiences and add to their stories for their speaking circuit and fundraising activities.

Even Australia sending containers from Australia to Phil shouldn't cost too much. Most of the ships return to Asia empty at the moment due to our love of imported goods.

I'm not being cynical, just pointing out that in many case there is not a lot 'out of pocket' for the donor countries even though it may get dressed up as $$$mm.

In fact, these type of events I would consider are excellent skills development opportunities for leaders. The troops get to be involved in something tangible instead of yet another drill exercise.

And, no doubt, there will be a few deposits of DNA and a couple of future marriages I'm sure.[/QUOTE]Good points BrainDrain!

[QUOTE=BrainDrain; 1500249]I'm sure the many foreign specialists in this forum will know more but what is the additional marginal cost of providing this 'aid' by any of the countries.

The ships are already owned, the staff are already paid, the troops are paid etc. The bandages and dressings were going to be disposed when they go out of date if not used. The Drs and medics that Australia are sending can broaden their experiences and add to their stories for their speaking circuit and fundraising activities.

Even Australia sending containers from Australia to Phil shouldn't cost too much. Most of the ships return to Asia empty at the moment due to our love of imported goods.

I'm not being cynical, just pointing out that in many case there is not a lot 'out of pocket' for the donor countries even though it may get dressed up as $$$mm.

In fact, these type of events I would consider are excellent skills development opportunities for leaders. The troops get to be involved in something tangible instead of yet another drill exercise.

And, no doubt, there will be a few deposits of DNA and a couple of future marriages I'm sure.[/QUOTE]Nice post. I agree that the costs associared with logistics-the planes, the ships, the military personnel, amd the heavy equipment-would have been in use elsewhere and the marginal costs are likely not excessive. However, the supplies-tents, food, water and medicines-likely represent "new" money that was either diverted from other countries or reflects additional appropriations.

Slighty off topic, there was quite a comprehensive article in today's "Philippine Daily Inquirer," contended that the government is being flooded with so much money that it lacks the ability to handle. It doesn't have the procurement and disbursement systems in place to begin to cope with the funds it's getting which means that the funds will not be spent effectively or efficiently. The government is as inept at creating and implementing projects as it is in providing relief.

GE

[QUOTE=BrainDrain; 1500249]I'm sure the many foreign specialists in this forum will know more but what is the additional marginal cost of providing this 'aid' by any of the countries.

The ships are already owned, the staff are already paid, the troops are paid etc. The bandages and dressings were going to be disposed when they go out of date if not used. The Drs and medics that Australia are sending can broaden their experiences and add to their stories for their speaking circuit and fundraising activities.

Even Australia sending containers from Australia to Phil shouldn't cost too much. Most of the ships return to Asia empty at the moment due to our love of imported goods.

I'm not being cynical, just pointing out that in many case there is not a lot 'out of pocket' for the donor countries even though it may get dressed up as $$$mm.

In fact, these type of events I would consider are excellent skills development opportunities for leaders. The troops get to be involved in something tangible instead of yet another drill exercise.

And, no doubt, there will be a few deposits of DNA and a couple of future marriages I'm sure.[/QUOTE]Nice post. I agree that the costs associared with logistics-the planes, the ships, the military personnel, amd the heavy equipment-would have been in use elsewhere and the marginal costs are likely not excessive. However, the supplies-tents, food, water and medicines-likely represent "new" money that was either diverted from other countries or reflects additional appropriations.

Slighty off topic, there was quite a comprehensive article in today's "Philippine Daily Inquirer," contending that the government is being flooded with so much money that it lacks the ability to handle it. It doesn't have the procurement and disbursement systems in place to begin to cope with the funds it's getting which means that the funds will not be spent effectively or efficiently. The government is as inept at creating and implementing projects as it is in providing relief.

GE