Manila

[QUOTE=Chocha Monger; 1177162]an advisory that Oral B mouthwash was under recall for possible contamination.

Pfizer's recall of Lipitor.[/QUOTE]There are mechanisms in place for licensing, inspecting, and, if necessary, recalling patented medicines? And so who is it that's in charge of inspecting and recalling the dodgy street vendors' pills?

Only two options you say-dodgy name brand or dodgy street drugs. Really? That's pretty imaginative writing, but not pretty thoughtful. Have you been reading anything that's been said in this discussion other than posts by you and Screaming Beaver?

[QUOTE=Skip Kost; 1177189]There are mechanisms in place for licensing, inspecting, and, if necessary, recalling patented medicines? And so who is it that's in charge of inspecting and recalling the dodgy street vendors' pills?

Only two options you say-dodgy name brand or dodgy street drugs. Really? That's pretty imaginative writing, but not pretty thoughtful. Have you been reading anything that's been said in this discussion other than posts by you and Screaming Beaver?[/QUOTE]Skip,

Pray tell what good is licensing, inspecting and recalling your patented Viagra going to do you when you've already taken the pills in anticipation of a Standing Hampton but instead find yourself stricken blind, deaf and laid low by the Widow Maker with your favorite bar girl in a Sogo? The makers of the dodgy dick pills have nothing to gain by selling you a poison. Dead elderly sex tourists in random ho-tels all over the Philippines makes for bad press and even worse repeat customers. The absolute worst that can happen to you is that they sell you some Skittles in a Viagra box and you're out 200 pesos trike fare for your hired lover. With the internet and mongering forums such as this one it wouldn't take long for reports of deadly dick pills to come to light. So, to answer your question I guess ISG is just as effective a regulatory body for putting out the word on bad batches of blue diamonds.

[QUOTE=Chocha Monger; 1177190]Skip,

The makers of the dodgy dick pills have nothing to gain by selling you a poison. Dead elderly sex tourists in random ho-tels all over the Philippines makes for bad press and even worse repeat customers. .[/QUOTE]I trust you have heard of certain drugs (such as heroin and cocaine) cut with marble powder or worst.

They have a lot to gain as the decrease the cost and increase the earnings and they do not care for deadly drug tourists.

At the same token certain "medicines" have been made in dodgy places, with no certification for cleaness, purity or safety of the ingredients.

They (the dodgy dick pill makers) have a lot to gain as the decrease the cost and increase the earnings and they do not care for deadly sex tourists. : do you think they will be related to their vending stall?

About some recal of brand medicines, it is true an accident can always happen, but the principles of correctness are set.

Certainly not with the street sellers. They can care the less. And you do not know what is inside those blue or yellow pills.

[QUOTE=Bionicman;1177210]They can care the less. And you do not know what is inside those blue or yellow pills.[/QUOTE]There really is one born every minute. I occasionally wondered why somebody would knowingly pay 10X the price for something like Pfizer Viagra for no apparent reason. Now I know, its fear! This also helps explain why Pfizer has a market cap of 150 Billion Dollars. Most westerners are programmed to fear anything that's not made in the West. It must be bad or even lethal. The fact that there is not one documented case of anyone dying due to poison generic viagra in spite of the billions of tables sold makes no difference. What is important is to feel comfortable and keep paying the tax to Pfizer so the boogie man does not get you. It's your dough sucker. Personally, I'd be more concerned about getting a serious case of the squirts from eating raw fish.

[QUOTE=Screaming Beaver;1177227]There really is one born every minute. I occasionally wondered why somebody would knowingly pay 10X the price for something like Pfizer Viagra for no apparent reason. Now I know, its fear! This also helps explain why Pfizer has a market cap of 150 Billion Dollars. Most westerners are programmed to fear anything that's not made in the West. It must be bad or even lethal. The fact that there is not one documented case of anyone dying due to poison generic viagra in spite of the billions of tables sold makes no difference. What is important is to feel comfortable and keep paying the tax to Pfizer so the boogie man does not get you. It's your dough sucker. Personally, I'd be more concerned about getting a serious case of the squirts from eating raw fish.[/QUOTE]99% of mine are from the streets. Still waiting for something unusual. Its nothing more than fear. Which is more likely?

1. You will get the generic.

2. You will get a fake (placebo) viagra (costs the manufacturer less).

3. You will get one doctored with something harmful.

The odds are overwhelmingly in that order. Pill worry-worts are saying there is some boogey-man out there putting an expensive chemical in the pills to make money, not caring what happens to the customer. Its always possible, but they are arguing the long odds. You know, if you take 10 generics and don't have a problem, you cannot look the worry-wort in the eye and tell him he's wrong (your sample is too small). Take 100 without problem, and the worry-wort was wrong. Take 300 and you can honestly consider him PHOBIC.

Some of my other fav worry-worts:

* "Filipines? Filipines! OMG are you crazy? Aren't you worried about being kidnapped?" Hahaha no. The more times I go there, the more phobic you sound.

* "Indonesia? Indonesia! OMG are you crazy? Aren't you afraid of those MUSLIMS?" Hahaha no. The more times I go, the more phobic you sound.

* "Mexico? Mexico! OMG are you crazy? You'll get killed in the drug war!" Hahaha no. The more times I go, the more phobic you sound.

==========================

Phizer's north american production facility for Viagra is in a third-world US district (Puerto Rico).

[QUOTE=Screaming Beaver;1177227]Personally, I'd be more concerned about getting a serious case of the squirts from eating raw fish.[/QUOTE]But to take your analogy a step further SB, I assume you would be more comfortable eating raw fish served up from a cart by a street vendor on Burgos than paying up and eating in an established 'rip off' sushi restaurant. I don't think so. I will continue to pay the high price and buy from the Pfizer's of the world in their licensed drugstores. It is not fear, but common sense and risk aversion that drives my decision. I am with Bionicman on this one.

I have a prescription for 20mg Cialis. I take 10mg / day when on the road. Costco Pharmacy charges $18 / pill in the USA and I get 99. 999% assured quality in return. I agree that the price is outrageous and when I run out while travelling, I do replenish my supply in BKK at my favorite pharmacy off Sukumvit for a lot less. But I know the pharmacist and have been doing business with him for 6. 7 years now.

[QUOTE=Screaming Beaver;1177227]Most westerners are programmed to fear anything that's not made in the West. It must be bad or even lethal.[/QUOTE]And what would be your evidence for this sweeping generalization? I buy what I believe are generics manufactured in India. The last time I checked India wasn't considered the West, I have no fear in buying them, and I am not paying any taxes to Pfizer when I buy them. It is street behavior among Manila's camp followers that I do not trust. You and many others have had good experiences with street pills, so by all means buy what makes you happy. Although how would you know from your experiences whether the pill is giving the effect or it's in fact a placebo effect driven by your confidence that you've taken an effective ED pill? Are you that certain that you can't get wood without the pill, so that it must be the pill that lets you perform?

My experience may have been one in a hundred, but I got fake Cialis from a guy at the corner of Padre Faura and Adriatico. In my case both Cialis and Levitra give me a minute or two of light-headedness about 20 minutes after I take the pill. With the fake stuff I got no such side effect, and at about 45 minutes into the action, my wood did start to flag. Thanks to an enthusiastic BG's oral ministrations, I managed to finish the FS deed without resorting to any illness-inducing DATY. I'm glad I've provided you with an occasion to express your humor; after all, humor makes the world go round. I also applaud your omniscience; it must be a terrible burden to know so much more about other people's experiences than they do and not be able to convince them of your wisdom.

[QUOTE=Westcoast1;1177238]Pill worry-worts are saying there is some boogey-man out there putting an expensive chemical in the pills to make money, not caring what happens to the customer.[/QUOTE]I understand your argument: there's a small probability of getting bad pills. I think you're right. But your mention of this boogey-man analogy is the first time I've seen this in the forum. How did you conclude this is what people are saying? If there were such an argument, it seems like they'd be putting INexpensive chemicals in the pills. Isn't it also possible that two sides of this argument could be right without either one disproving the other? Your argument is that most ED pills sold on the street are okay. This could be; you have reported that this has been your own experience. But this doesn't mean that those who have reported bad experiences--I am one of them--are lying. My experience makes me very disinclined to buy them on the street, not because anybody intentionally put something in them, but because, Filipino street culture being what it is, the street vendors don't have any way of knowing whether their product is legitimate.

[QUOTE=Westcoast1; 1177238]99% of mine are from the streets. Still waiting for something unusual. Its nothing more than fear. Which is more likely?

1. You will get the generic.

2. You will get a fake (placebo) viagra (costs the manufacturer less).

3. You will get one doctored with something harmful.

The odds are overwhelmingly in that order. Pill worry-worts are saying there is some boogey-man out there putting an expensive chemical in the pills to make money, not caring what happens to the customer. Its always possible, but they are arguing the long odds.

==========================

Phizer's north american production facility for Viagra is in a third-world US district (Puerto Rico).[/QUOTE]I think that the odds of getting poison is low also. But there is a variation in what they make the pills with.

I try to stay aware and educated but sometimes my education is inaccurate information or may be my own expierence and other people have other expierences.

But I believe if the pills are poison then it is because something is cheap and just an unhealthy substance.

For instance it is well documented that in China they add melamine (?) to powdered milk and it has caused some deaths.

Why do they do that?

Its is also documented that some drugs are totally nothing. Placebo? Of course I am relying on news reports and discover channel etc. For this information. For instance lot of news about malaria and other antibiotics that do nothing.

Now of course I am more interested in erectile enhancement drugs. For recreation and longer lasting.

The best erectile enhancement for me is the right girl that gets me totally excited but sometimes I need a little more.

So I have gotten some information. Maybe this is all true and may be only some of it and maybe its only my expierence.

My information is from friends. Doctors pharmacists and news reports and of course personal expierence.

One rumor is that street cialis uses phen phen (?) a substance / drug banned by fda for use in a diet drug?

The reason for the use of a more dangerous drug is that the manufacture is cheaper? And that they still want the pills to have some effect?

I have taken some street cialis and have had irregular heart beat. Many friends use the same thing and have no problems.

And I have used cialis from the pharmacy and do not get the same irregular heart beat?

I have also had complete heart checks with no problems with my heart. Other then when the girl says no then its a broken heart/

I have shown the pills to a trusted pharmacist in Pattaya and he says it is probably made in China and he does not know what chemicals are used? I have bought cialis from this pharmicist. He has three different prices for three different almost identical.

Cialis products. He says the USA manufactured is the better and cost more. (if sold in USA they are monitered by fda)

The product made in india is second best and the product made in China is the worst.

I use the stuff from india he sells me. Cost less and still works.

I have used his stuff made in China and no problems but the pharmacist recommeded I use either the stuff from india or USA?

Never did get a comprehenisve explanation of why one is better then the other?

Maybe too much time spent on this subject as I want to go out and meet some more girls here in angeles.

But I do believe that street anything is more risky then getting in a pharmacy. But not a super high risk. And not because they intentionally poison the pills but because they have a substance that has some effect, costs less and is just less safe. You get what you pay for? Or because they just don't pay attention to how it is manufactured? And in the manufacturing process they cut corners and don't do it safely because it cost more to do it right.

With that being said how can you even trust the pharmacies in 3rd world countries?

[QUOTE=Skip Kost;1177274]I understand your argument: there's a small probability of getting bad pills. I think you're right. But your mention of this boogey-man analogy is the first time I've seen this in the forum. How did you conclude this is what people are saying? If there were such an argument, it seems like they'd be putting INexpensive chemicals in the pills. Isn't it also possible that two sides of this argument could be right without either one disproving the other? Your argument is that most ED pills sold on the street are okay. This could be; you have reported that this has been your own experience. But this doesn't mean that those who have reported bad experiences--I am one of them--are lying. My experience makes me very disinclined to buy them on the street, not because anybody intentionally put something in them, but because, Filipino street culture being what it is, the street vendors don't have any way of knowing whether their product is legitimate.[/QUOTE]Most of these guys don't really care what happens to the customers? They just want money? So I agree with you. And I have had bad expierence with street products. I am not so afraid as in a pinch I still use them? Risky? And to what degree is the risk?

Fucking girls that fuck other guys is risky also. So don't worry be happy but accept that there is some risk? And decide how much risk you want.

[QUOTE=Bionicman; 1177210]I trust you have heard of certain drugs (such as heroin and cocaine) cut with marble powder or worst.

They have a lot to gain as the decrease the cost and increase the earnings and they do not care for deadly drug tourists.

In response to.

Skip,

The makers of the dodgy dick pills have nothing to gain by selling you a poison. Dead elderly sex tourists in random ho-tels all over the Philippines makes for bad press and even worse repeat customers.[/quote]I got to say from what I see in this country. If a foreigner dies from drug reaction or poison then it will just say he died of a heart attack. No problem with the police to worry about a difficult investigation? Or even to have bad press. Do they really care?

The ones that do care are not really in control of this country? Anyway maybe I am too jaded and don't trust anything

The main concern is for guys who are taking a buffet of pills for all sorts of problems ranging from prostatitis to severe heart problems.

I would be very wary about using some of these generics and herbals if I was like that.

If you are fit and strong and healthy (age is not the issue here) then it is unlikely that anything in the generic street stuff will "hurt" you greatly. It might give you a dry mouth, a headache or some strong green light effects but time will heal that.

I consider myself fit and healthy (gym 4 times each week) and I never use the street stuff and probably never will but it's up to how you feel about the future years.

I just don't wish to do anything to set me back on a hopefully healthy few more years yet (make that decades LOL)

[quote=screaming beaver; 1177227]there really is one born every minute. i occasionally wondered why somebody would knowingly pay 10x the price for something like pfizer viagra for no apparent reason. now i know, its fear! this also helps explain why pfizer has a market cap of 150 billion dollars. most westerners are programmed to fear anything that's not made in the west. it must be bad or even lethal.

!!!!!! the fact that there is not one documented case of anyone dying due to poison generic viagra in spite of the billions of tables sold makes no difference!!!!!!

what is important is to feel comfortable and keep paying the tax to pfizer so the boogie man does not get you. it's your dough sucker. personally, i'd be more concerned about getting a serious case of the squirts from eating raw fish.[/quote]he who laughs last laughs loudest. the file below is a little nighttime reading from the new england journal of medicine. (i copied the text out of an online article but choose not to advertise how i got it; if you don't trust me i included the complete citation in the file.) would you consider nejm a reliable source? regarding a particular case in singapore it reports four deaths and seven cases still comatose as of the february 2009 publication. unfortunately the seven comatose apparently died, because a more recent source (hellstrom. 2011, p. 2) reports that eventually there were "11 deaths and 24 coma cases with residual deficits" in singapore.

btw, the singapore report cites an earlier incident in hong kong, in case anybody wants to check into it. here's the reference for hellstrom:

hellstrom, wayne j. g, md, facs (january 2011). 'the growing concerns regarding counterfeit medications. ' the journal of sexual medicine, vol. 8, no. 1, pp. 1-3.

hellstsrom also reported this:

'illegal (erectile dysfunction) generics may contain a varying and inconsistent amount of active ingredients. analysis of 103 samples purchased online, using near-infrared spectroscopy, revealed varying amounts of sildenafil and other active ingredients including; clomiphene citrate, yohimbine, guinine, amphetamine, and dipyrone. in another recent study, a chemical analysis of confirep001ed counterfeit pde5 inhibitors was conducted in south korea. of the counterfeit drugs confirep001ed, 58% contained excess active ingredient, some 2. 4-fold higher than the maximum dose. 38% showed no active drug, and only 1% showed proper dosing [7]. heavy metals such as lead and mercury were also isolated [7]' (p. 2).

footnote 7 refers to this korean study:

min k, kim s, park k, lee s, hyun j, moon k, yang d, yan s, moon d, ryou j, chung w, kim m, park j. a study for chemical analysis of counterfeit phosphodiesterase type 5 inhibitors in korea: 1371. journal of urology. 2010; 1371a:e530.

of course we can't vouch for the korean's science, although they did get it published in the journal of urology. and, of course, it's possible that our filipino street vendors are a much more respectable and better regulated lot than those dodgy koreans.

actually, i found that the electronic version of the nejm piece was cross-referenced to 11 subsequent articles reporting more recent evidence, which included hellstrom and the following:

jackson, g, arver, a, banks, i, and stecher, v. j. (march 2010). 'counterfeit phosphodiesterase type 5 inhibitors pose significant safety risks. ' international journal of clinical practice, vol. 64, issue 4, pp. 497–504.

a summary of the jackson et al. article includes this reassuring news:

'analysis of the contents of counterfeit pde5s shows inconsistent doses of active pharmaceutical ingredients (from 0% to 200% of labeled dose), contaminants (including talcum powder, commercial paint and printer ink) and alternative ingredients that are potentially hazardous. in one analysis, only 10.1% of samples were within 10% of the labeled tablet strength. '

i was sort of tongue-in-cheek when i first mentioned the possibility of placebo effect for those who are getting good results with the street pills. based on the korean study i'd now say it's not entirely a joke.

now, many of the fine researchers who publish in these internationally respected journals are medical practitioners and scientists with a stake in promoting the patented versions of the drugs, but i'm wondering if there's anybody in the forum qualified to disprove them. and then again, there's a sizable number of americans who still believe barack obama was born in kenya or indonesia, and when you point to the birth announcement published in a honolulu paper they insist the paper is complicit in the grand conspiracy to take over the united states government.

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[QUOTE=Skip Kost;1177384]The file below is a little nighttime reading from the New England Journal of Medicine. (I copied the text out of an online article but choose not to advertise how I got it; if you don't trust me I included the complete citation in the file.)[/QUOTE]You choose not to advertise where you got this garbage? Really? Frankly I'm surprised how some old boys can muster up enough courage to get out of bed in the morning knowing what might be waiting for them. This shows if you spend enough hours on the internet you can find just about anything you want to help scare you. Okay SK, you are probably correct. I'm pretty sure those Viagra salesmen on P. Burgos are selling stuff laced with Boric Acid so stay away!

[QUOTE=Screaming Beaver;1177491]You choose not to advertise where you got this garbage? Really? Frankly I'm surprised how some old boys can muster up enough courage to get out of bed in the morning knowing what might be waiting for them. This shows if you spend enough hours on the internet you can find just about anything you want to help scare you. Okay SK, you are probably correct. I'm pretty sure those Viagra salesmen on P. Burgos are selling stuff laced with Boric Acid so stay away![/QUOTE]RTFF!

I said I got it from the New England Journal of Medicine. In the file I posted is the complete reference: volume 360, issue 7, pages 734-736. I said I choose not to advertise HOW I got it. You can get it too in any reputable library, and you might be able to find it online, as I did. Forewarned is forearmed. You can choose to do what you want, but please keep your uninformed opinions to yourself.