Bangkok Reports

[QUOTE=DannyDuck;2461833]Because you don't know what you getting beforehand.[/QUOTE]Danny, you need to discuss your needs with a lady before you seal the deal. Would you buy anything with out testing it first and checking it out? Take a minute and tell her what you want and always include a shower. They stand on the road and get sweaty or dance in a bar and get real sticky. If you love to DATY, it must be clean and recently washed. I've never met a lady that didn't want a good licking, 555.

Chock dee kop my friend.

RL.

[QUOTE=RobertLong;2462035]Trump has dropped the ball big time. The Covid19 is going wild and Trump is not doing anything to stop it. Thailand has been great and has only 3 deaths. 3000 cases of Covid19 and 99% recovery.

RL.[/QUOTE]Where are you getting these numbers from?

[QUOTE=RunMann;2462046]Where are you getting these numbers from?[/QUOTE][URL]https://covid19.who.int/region/searo/country/th[/URL]

With 3,162 cases and 58 deaths Thailand has been spared by the pandemic. Even if these are self reported numbers, there's a minimum of cross checking and they seem reliable.

I hear short time rooms are going to be mandated to install see thru windows. Police need to make sure masks are being worn during intimate relations.

[QUOTE=PlushTiger;2462056][URL]https://covid19.who.int/region/searo/country/th[/URL]

With 3,162 cases and 58 deaths Thailand has been spared by the pandemic. Even if these are self reported numbers, there's a minimum of cross checking and they seem reliable.[/QUOTE]You consider those numbers to be reliable? Even though Thailand was an international travel hub at the start of corona and left the gogos and everything else open for at least a full two months after their first case on Jan 13. Yet, they claim the most deaths they had in any single day was 4 with a total of 58. And zero deaths in the past month.

Those numbers sound reasonable to you?

[QUOTE=PlushTiger;2462056][URL]https://covid19.who.int/region/searo/country/th[/URL]

With 3,162 cases and 58 deaths Thailand has been spared by the pandemic. Even if these are self reported numbers, there's a minimum of cross checking and they seem reliable.[/QUOTE]No one knows the actual numbers in any country but the OP had only 3 deaths reported as opposed to 58 in your link. The virus is still out there so Thailand like most other countries that are opening back up can expect the actual number of cases and deaths to rise, regardless of the number they report.

[QUOTE=Smoothy;2462134]Those numbers sound reasonable to you?[/QUOTE]Smoothy,

No one is saying they have identified every case during the last 6 months or that there are definitely no undetected cases left in Thailand. However, from my experience being here and looking into the available data with a critical eye I certainly believe they provide a realistic indication of the true picture. I had a lot of scepticism back in March but the harder I looked the less likely significant rigging of the numbers seemed likely.

There are lots of conspiracy theorists who denounce the information as being manipulated to allow the Government to use the situation to justify the rule by emergency decree. They conveniently overlook that if the Government were manipulating data for this purpose they would be announcing higher numbers to justify the ongoing emergency decree.

If the information was going to be manipulated, then surely the cluster from Lumpini Boxing Stadium, which is the largest to date, would have been hushed up? Given the Boxing Stadium is owned by the Army and the event went ahead even though all such places had been ordered shut this was where a cover up would have happened if anywhere.

I have not seen a single whistle blower on any of the platforms shouting "my hospital is overwhelmed", "the mortuaries are overflowing" or "the Government covered up my husband's death". There was one gentleman on here who questioned that a friend of his had passed away and not been reported, but a look at the available data identified a probable match which he subsequently verified.

There was a piece on National Geographic a few days ago [URL]https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/2020/06/look-inside-thailand-prevented-coronavirus-gaining-foothold/[/URL] from a Thai photo journalist. "Expecting the worst, I began photographing Bangkok in the early days of the pandemic. I was especially afraid of a runaway outbreak in the city's slums and that our healthcare facilities would be overrun. It didn't turn out that way. The work has been frustrating at times, not because there've been so many cases but because there've been so few. Much to my relief, I am gradually running out of things to shoot. " Now the nay sayers cry that he couldn't write bad news because it would be against the decree, but had he had bad news to tell then it would have appeared without his byline and probably been syndicated to far more outlets and for far more money than National Geographic paid. I almost get a sense of the guy's disappointment at not getting the scoop of the year.

One recurring theme from a lot of the stuff I've seen about "how it was done" is the network of 1 million health volunteers, which allowed both contact tracing and preliminary screening in "at risk" areas (so temperature check and any symptoms) to be rolled out quickly to the rural masses. Simply put you cannot swab test nearly 70 million people, and you cannot test even 5% of them given the resources available and their geographic dispersal.

Finally, I usually avoid commenting on politics in general and Thai politics in particular, and I am certainly not going to enter into a discussion about the state of Thai democracy (or lack thereof depending on viewpoint), the use of emergency decree to govern in the situation or any of that kerfuffle. But I would pose the question "Has not having to worry about approval ratings or re-election freed the politicians to chose the right decision rather than the popular decision?" I am not picking on any country or political party, but some of the restrictions here have been hugely unpopular with Thais but, fingers crossed, thus far effective.

[QUOTE=RunMann;2462160]No one knows the actual numbers in any country but the OP had only 3 deaths reported as opposed to 58 in your link. The virus is still out there so Thailand like most other countries that are opening back up can expect the actual number of cases and deaths to rise, regardless of the number they report.[/QUOTE]I am not in Thailand for the time being but following the situation closely as I'd like to return there whenever the situation improves and travel open. Given that lots of countries massage the number, it sort of levels the field and it seems that the situation is quite good in Thailand as compared to Europe, the Americas and some other countries. Numbers might be a few thousands more but it seems to be no where near some countries such as the Philippines where the pandemic unfortunately for them seems to be in full swing.

[QUOTE=Smoothy;2462134]You consider those numbers to be reliable? Even though Thailand was an international travel hub at the start of corona and left the gogos and everything else open for at least a full two months after their first case on Jan 13. Yet, they claim the most deaths they had in any single day was 4 with a total of 58. And zero deaths in the past month.

Those numbers sound reasonable to you?[/QUOTE]I didn't believe the Thai reported numbers at all. Not until I lost a friend in Isaan and Getting Fed Up actually found a listing for his death. Thanks again, GFU. I now believe the numbers reported are reasonably close, especially the number of deaths. To be sure some Thai deaths were misidentified as see-19 (or not) especially early on as Thailand learned about the disease. But that happened in every country.

I only wish the USA had things under control like Thailand. I happen to live in Los Angeles county where the virus is running wild. I heard we were #1 (worst) in the USA recently.

Regarding the situation in the USA. I truly believe we have some of the smartest people in world. As well as most of the stupidest. How hard is it to wear a mask?

[QUOTE=Allover;2462349]I didn't believe the Thai reported numbers at all. Not until I lost a friend in Isaan and Getting Fed Up actually found a listing for his death. Thanks again, GFU. I now believe the numbers reported are reasonably close, especially the number of deaths. To be sure some Thai deaths were misidentified as see-19 (or not) especially early on as Thailand learned about the disease. But that happened in every country.

I only wish the USA had things under control like Thailand. I happen to live in Los Angeles county where the virus is running wild. I heard we were #1 (worst) in the USA recently.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=RacShack;2461699]First sigh, you have money up, 2nd not want to shower; a pro monger is out the door! Why do people continue to pay for lackluster performance?[/QUOTE]I agree with you in general, but an important difference here is that this was an African girl. When you're dealing with a different ethnicity or a new scene, there's more ambiguity about the expectations, so you end up making mistakes you wouldn't have made with your familiar, usual Thai freelancer fare, where both of you know the procedure, and both immediately know what kind of behavior is unacceptable.

I concur with that assessment. It's possible to hide a lot but as the writer of TV show The Wire (David Simon) said, "you can't hide a body". His reference was to police statistics that changed violent crimes to lesser offenses to make the crime look better, and I fully expect the same to happen worldwide with corona. However in the end in societies with open internet, I. E. Not China, if the hospitals, morgues, and slums were full of bodies it would be on facebook, twitter, and a dozen other places and that just never happened. In the end the only worldwide reliable statistic is going to be a comparison of death rates over the previous periods and even that will be shaded by some countries. I still think given Thailand's international travel exposure it's a miracle they haven't seen the outbreak everyone expected. Unfortunately unless they wait out the year or more it's going to take to get a vaccine it's going to make it's way back and they will be stuck with the same dilemma of closing down again. The inability of the UK, US, South America and others to get it under control at all means it's going to continue to incubate and spread. Some places may be able to operate with an effective 14 day quarantine system, but it's still to early to tell on that and in reality if that is in place is there enough demand for air travel that any airline is flying across borders?

It's like a greek play at this point, despite all of us isolating ourselves in our countries, provences / states, and homes we are still reliant and interconnected throughout so much that unless you want to stay in that hole we are all going to subject to the decisions made by those far away from where we reside. Reminds me of the scene in Armageddon when Billie Bob says there is a place on earth where you can hide from it.

[QUOTE=GettingFedUp;2462256]Smoothy,

No one is saying they have identified every case during the last 6 months or that there are definitely no undetected cases left in Thailand. However, from my experience being here and looking into the available data with a critical eye I certainly believe they provide a realistic indication of the true picture. I had a lot of scepticism back in March but the harder I looked the less likely significant rigging of the numbers seemed likely.

There are lots of conspiracy theorists who denounce the information as being manipulated to allow the Government to use the situation to justify the rule by emergency decree. They conveniently overlook that if the Government were manipulating data for this purpose they would be announcing higher numbers to justify the ongoing emergency decree.

If the information was going to be manipulated, then surely the cluster from Lumpini Boxing Stadium, which is the largest to date, would have been hushed up? Given the Boxing Stadium is owned by the Army and the event went ahead even though all such places had been ordered shut this was where a cover up would have happened if anywhere.

I have not seen a single whistle blower on any of the platforms shouting "my hospital is overwhelmed", "the mortuaries are overflowing" or "the Government covered up my husband's death". There was one gentleman on here who questioned that a friend of his had passed away and not been reported, but a look at the available data identified a probable match which he subsequently verified.

There was a piece on National Geographic a few days ago [URL]https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/2020/06/look-inside-thailand-prevented-coronavirus-gaining-foothold/[/URL] from a Thai photo journalist. "Expecting the worst, I began photographing Bangkok in the early days of the pandemic. I was especially afraid of a runaway outbreak in the city's slums and that our healthcare facilities would be overrun. It didn't turn out that way. The work has been frustrating at times, not because there've been so many cases but because there've been so few. Much to my relief, I am gradually running out of things to shoot. " Now the nay sayers cry that he couldn't write bad news because it would be against the decree, but had he had bad news to tell then it would have appeared without his byline and probably been syndicated to far more outlets and for far more money than National Geographic paid. I almost get a sense of the guy's disappointment at not getting the scoop of the year.

One recurring theme from a lot of the stuff I've seen about "how it was done" is the network of 1 million health volunteers, which allowed both contact tracing and preliminary screening in "at risk" areas (so temperature check and any symptoms) to be rolled out quickly to the rural masses. Simply put you cannot swab test nearly 70 million people, and you cannot test even 5% of them given the resources available and their geographic dispersal.

Finally, I usually avoid commenting on politics in general and Thai politics in particular, and I am certainly not going to enter into a discussion about the state of Thai democracy (or lack thereof depending on viewpoint), the use of emergency decree to govern in the situation or any of that kerfuffle. But I would pose the question "Has not having to worry about approval ratings or re-election freed the politicians to chose the right decision rather than the popular decision?" I am not picking on any country or political party, but some of the restrictions here have been hugely unpopular with Thais but, fingers crossed, thus far effective.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Allover;2462349]I didn't believe the Thai reported numbers at all. Not until I lost a friend in Isaan and Getting Fed Up actually found a listing for his death. Thanks again, GFU. I now believe the numbers reported are reasonably close, especially the number of deaths.[/QUOTE]I hope the change in your belief was supported by something stronger than your own sample_size_of_one experience.

[QUOTE] To be sure some Thai deaths were misidentified as see-19 (or not) especially early on as Thailand learned about the disease. But that happened in every country.[/QUOTE]My recollection is that what 'mostly' happened was that many C19 caused deaths were unwittingly (mis) classified as a variety of other reasons. This happened in the UK, the US and many other countries. {I have no opinion on how this played out in Thailand.).

Post pandemic, the pressure to misclassify intentionally escalated in a variety of countries. China was flagrant about this. But the UK, Iran, Egypt Florida in the US, India, much of Africa have been reported as engaged in this. I am sure statistical comparisions will, in the future, uncover a lot of this malarkey.

[QUOTE] I only wish the USA had things under control like Thailand. I happen to live in Los Angeles county where the virus is running wild. I heard we were #1 (worst) in the USA recently.[/QUOTE]Difference is that Thailand has a dictator for real; the US has a president who wishes he could be a dictator for real. The former provided what appears to be meaningful leadership and a unified response. The latter played golf and tweeted.

[QUOTE=MichaelSamuel;2462442]...Some places may be able to operate with an effective 14 day quarantine system, but it's still to early to tell on that and in reality if that is in place is there enough demand for air travel that any airline is flying across borders?[/QUOTE]My guess is that there will be enough demand. And international air travel may be far safer than how some of us (me included) had imagined. Lot of recent stuff in the press to that point.

[QUOTE]It's like a greek play at this point, despite all of us isolating ourselves in our countries, provences / states, and homes we are still reliant and interconnected throughout so much that unless you want to stay in that hole we are all going to subject to the decisions made by those far away from where we reside. Reminds me of the scene in Armageddon when Billie Bob says there is a place on earth where you can hide from it.[/QUOTE]The fact is that with the exception of the isolated places (e. G. Fiji, with zero infection) and NZ, Aus and maybe a few more countries, isolation and self quarantining are being practiced quite spottily. Today's social media is awash with videos of the tennis players Alexander and Misha Zverev partying hard in a huge group of 'unmasked' people, less than a week after promising to self quarantine after exposure to C19. The entire state of Florida and many parts of the US are / were in a state of denial till recently.

These are educated people with full access to information. Causes and consequences.

As you put it, we are all subject to the fallout from their actions.

Bill Gates recently opined that until a vaccine is developed and administered to at least 70% of the population of the planet, travel and tourism is unlikely to return to anywhere resembling pre-pandemic levels. And he believes, as does Fauci, that the US is still in the midst of the first wave. The election of 2016 is turning out to be far more costly for the entire world than imagined.

[QUOTE=Kazeu;2462363]Regarding the situation in the USA. I truly believe we have some of the smartest people in world. As well as most of the stupidest. How hard is it to wear a mask?[/QUOTE]Ego versus empathy. Individualism versus collectivism. Sometimes this thing called free will really isn't free. Don't worry, maybe it's was meant to all come down. This may be the end for everything. And there will be a new beginning. That's why folks should be trying to hit those last minute goals. I know I am. Almost there.

July 1 is the big day. The start of a new beginning. Here is a link to Stickboy's column giving the reopening dates of Nana Bars & Go Go's.

[URL]https://www.stickboybkk.com/go-go-bars/list-of-nana-plaza-bar-opening-dates/amp/?__twitter_impression=true[/URL]

Without going into the philosophical Determinism versus Libertarianism discussion of whether free will actually exists for me the question is whether free choice exists.

Some will say yes she can say no to sex without a condom. Others will argue in reality she does not have that option because of her circumstances. She needs the money.

Did the coal miner going down the pit really have a choice and exercising free will.

Saying BBFS is something that women want because they don't say no is simply disingenuous.

Always exceptions but how many girls do you think if given the option of sex with a condom or without would willingly opt for the former.

In my experience very few.

They don't say no because they want the sensation of an uncovered dick inside them they agree because they are either foolishly unaware of the health risks or else just accept these risks as a necessary part of the job.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;2462577]July 1 is the big day. The start of a new beginning. Here is a link to Stickboy's column giving the reopening dates of Nana Bars & Go Go's.

[URL]https://www.stickboybkk.com/go-go-bars/list-of-nana-plaza-bar-opening-dates/amp/?__twitter_impression=true[/URL].[/QUOTE]Better than nothing.

The you tubers can do their thing.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;2462577]July 1 is the big day. The start of a new beginning. Here is a link to Stickboy's column giving the reopening dates of Nana Bars & Go Go's[/QUOTE]That does not matter a lot when you still can't fly there. And the few who can will be in quarantine for 2 weeks.

What BJ bars are open now?

[QUOTE=Downandup;2462833]That does not matter a lot when you still can't fly there. [/QUOTE]IMHO the bar openings matter and are of real interest in particular to see how many girls they will have on hand, the social distancing effect if any they employ, and the amount of trade they get from ex pats and others who are in BKK now. The ISG Thailand has a few regular contributors who live in BKK. I am looking forward to reading their reports on the state of back in business Go Go's.

I have speculated before on these pages that I do not think Thailand or any SE Asian country will truly open up to international travel until an effective vaccine is made available. That could take a 1 year to 18 months to happen if it happens at all. In the meantime I find it very interesting and relevant to my interests to watch how or if these various P4P venues survive. I consider the Go Go bar openings a milestone event. I wish them all the best because personally, I don't think BKK will be half as much fun if the Go Go's don't survive.

[QUOTE=Bloodstock;2462860]What BJ bars are open now?[/QUOTE]Kasalong Bar and L0litas were open today when I passed by around 3pm. I saw 4-5 girls in uniform hanging around outside each. Some new faces, mostly chubby girls I would not rate above a 5 in looks generally. But I only passed by once so maybe better looking girls were busy inside with customers at the time.

I have been with a regular, non P4P GF all day and evening today so I did not cruise the area to see what other shops were open.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;2462871]IMHO the bar openings matter and are of real interest in particular to see how many girls they will have on hand, the social distancing effect if any they employ, and the amount of trade they get from ex pats and others who are in BKK now. [/QUOTE]The different Monger donor countries all have their own exit and return restrictions so I'm also very interested to see if the bars see an in rush of guys who have been waiting for the ability to enter or if the economic down turn. Means that the ramp up is much slower.

[QUOTE=Goferring;2462945]The different Monger donor countries all have their own exit and return restrictions so I'm also very interested to see if the bars see an in rush of guys who have been waiting for the ability to enter or if the economic down turn. Means that the ramp up is much slower.[/QUOTE]Just read a report from Amsterdam. Sex shops are open in red light district but no kissing allowed and no heavy breathing. Who and how they can enforce this rule?

I do not know which position satisfies this rule. I guess only part which will be touching each other are penis and vagina.

Better to forego sex with strangers for a while!

I have lived on Soi 8 during the winter months for the past several years and pass by Lolita's frequently on my way through Soi 6 to NaNa. I have to say that I have not been tempted for a number of years to indulge with any of the girls in this place. Most are, as you say, about a 5 in looks. Hefty farm girls for the most part. Several years ago, there were a few cute ones though I recall only requesting their services twice in all this time. There was real petite doll there with blond dyed hair who was rescued by a Farang and that was maybe four years ago. Rest easy as I seriously doubt if you missed any cute ones hanging out inside.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2462890]Kasalong Bar and L0litas were open today when I passed by around 3pm. I saw 4-5 girls in uniform hanging around outside each. Some new faces, mostly chubby girls I would not rate above a 5 in looks generally. But I only passed by once so maybe better looking girls were busy inside with customers at the time.

I have been with a regular, non P4P GF all day and evening today so I did not cruise the area to see what other shops were open.[/QUOTE]

So a very legit Rainbow 2 girl posted a photo of her earnings last night. Legit meaning she pulls 3,000 baht customers easy as Pie.

4 $1000 baht bills and a whole lot of 100's.

At least 2 barfines me thinks.

Is it sustainable?

Any reports.

I'm not seeing be able to go till 2021 at the earliest.

Nana plaza opening night last night about 9 pm.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2462752]Some will say yes she can say no to sex without a condom. Others will argue in reality she does not have that option because of her circumstances. She needs the money.

Did the coal miner going down the pit really have a choice and exercising free will.

Saying BBFS is something that women want because they don't say no is simply disingenuous.

Always exceptions but how many girls do you think if given the option of sex with a condom or without would willingly opt for the former.

In my experience very few.

They don't say no because they want the sensation of an uncovered dick inside them they agree because they are either foolishly unaware of the health risks or else just accept these risks as a necessary part of the job.[/QUOTE]100% correct and we'll put.

When I ran out of condoms, and the girls didn't have their own, they still tried, to my objection, to go on with FS. This is not because they want it but because they need the money and they feel this is what the customer wants and if they don't do it they will lose the money. Of course there are exceptions where some girls don't care or even prefer it, as it is with the guys.

But since we're on this topic, this argument also applies to prostitution in general. Most of these girls wouldn't be available if they had other viable options.

[URL]https://youtu.be/5vmH3n6Vz1I[/URL]

I hope to see Sukhumvit Road like this again in a near future.

Tonight I took a cruise through Soi Cowboy, stopped in Thermae and ended the evening in Nana Plaza. This was mostly a visual overview for me just to get a vibe of the bars after 3 1/2 months of closure.

I was a bit too early for Soi Cowboy I suppose, around 8:30PM. I thought the go-go bars would open early since they must close at Midnight. But I don't think any go-go bar except Crazy House was open for dancing by then. A few girls were sitting outside some of the bars, but they demonstrated no particular interest in attracting a customer (me) that I could tell except one ok looking 30 something year old sitting outside Country Road just as I was leaving the soi. She reached out to grab my hand, but I wasn't really interested.

Around 9PM, I stopped in Thermae. Had to get my temperature taken outside the door and make sure my mask was fully covering my nose and mouth when I entered. That's it. Once inside, I suppose I could have pulled my mask down, which I did, or removed it altogether. There was one other Farang customer at the bar with his mask fully removed and chatting with a girl who also had no mask on at the time. There were about 60 girls and a sprinkling of customer in there at that time, mostly Asian customers and mostly senior citizens like me. Almost all of the girls were wearing those clear plastic face masks that look a little like welder's masks. LOL. But you can see their whole face behind it. As is usual for Thermae, the more obvious lookers had zero interest in me, responding to my Hello (in Thai), returning my smile or in the 2-3 other Farangs in the place. I finished one drink and moved on to Nana Plaza.

There were only 4-5 bars open in Nana Plaza. I had to get my temperature taken at the main entrance to the Plaza and do the smartphone scan of their QR code. It didn't work for me, but security let me in anyway. I just wrote and then deleted a bit here about what I did and didn't have to do in Nana Plaza and its go-go bars tonight that was different from before the shutdown. I have decided to just say it was not very different from before.

I only went into two Nana Plaza go-go bars: Twister BKK on the ground level and Rainbow 5, formerly Twister (second level). I had one drink in each bar, spent about 40 minutes each and moved on.

My impression of the general vibe tonight was no different for me than if it had been normal times except for the servers wearing face masks and only 4-5 bars being open. And, of course, the very few customers around. The stages were filled with girls, looking and behaving no different than if it were the height of High Season. All the lookers were as aloof and seemingly disinterested in getting a Lady Drink or being barfined (by me) than if they were 3 months ahead on their rent and their smartphone top ups instead of 3 months behind. The marginally fuckable ones were the only ones smiling at me, returning my smile or seemed to be interested in coming over during their dance break. Actually, the only girl I saw in either bar going over to a customer was a looker in Twister BKK plopping herself down next to one very decrepit old Farang dude sitting alone in the booth. And he didn't seem to be all that interested in her either. LOL. I got the impression they knew each other from before.

Nobody seemed needy, hungry, thirsty or eager to meet a customer, get a Lady Drink or be barfined by anyone in the couple of hours I was in those two Nana Plaza bars and checking around the place, including the servers. I mention that in case some of you guys not here are imagining the hottest girls must be crawling all over us, begging to be taken, offering Real Sex without discussion, accepting deep discounts on their usual fees and so on. LOL. I saw no evidence of and experienced no crawling, begging or offering of anything. I was able to sit with a big smile and nodding to girls in those bars for a chunk of the time they would be open tonight and managed not to be approached or lobbied by body language by any of the girls I would remotely have wanted to barfine. And there were many barfineable girls there tonight. Lookswise only, I mean.

Then again, I wasn't really intent upon taking a girl no matter what tonight. I might be more on the hunt right after these two upcoming bar closure days have passed this weekend and more bars reopen.

You guys most likely read this already.

[URL]https://www.yahoo.com/news/masks-bikinis-bangkok-sex-districts-170222530.html[/URL]

[QUOTE=Zeus9;2455943]I've met this girl (QLee) in person. She finds customers on Thai friendly mostly. She will meet if you want. She charges 2500 for 4-5 hours and as many pops as you can handle. Usually I won't pay that much, but she was actually worth it. Nice body and will work hard with PSE the whole time. She is open to WHATEVER you are into. Or at least that's my experience. Last time when I talked to her she said she had been doing ok with online video chat income. So apparently enough people are willing to pay. Not me. There's lots of porn online, and still plenty of girls to meet in person. She did offer to give me a discount if we made some video of us fucking for her to use online. 1st time that's been offered to me, 555! But I'm not into any footage of me floating around on the internet.[/QUOTE]Hi Zeus,

This lady you mentioned in your post here sound exactly what l am looking for which is 'enthusiastic'.

As l am not a TF subscribed member I cannot do a search by name.

May l ask her approximate age in order to possibly find her there.

Many thanks.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2463217]Tonight I took a cruise through Soi Cowboy, stopped in Thermae and ended the evening in Nana Plaza. This was mostly a visual overview for me just to get a vibe of the bars after 3 1/2 months of closure.

I was a bit too early for Soi Cowboy I suppose, around 8:30PM. I thought the go-go bars would open early since they must close at Midnight. But I don't think any go-go bar except Crazy House was open for dancing by then. A few girls were sitting outside some of the bars, but they demonstrated no particular interest in attracting a customer (me) that I could tell except one ok looking 30 something year old sitting outside Country Road just as I was leaving the soi. She reached out to grab my hand, but I wasn't really interested.

Around 9PM, I stopped in Thermae. Had to get my temperature taken outside the door and make sure my mask was fully covering my nose and mouth when I entered. That's it. Once inside, I suppose I could have pulled my mask down, which I did, or removed it altogether. There was one other Farang customer at the bar with his mask fully removed and chatting with a girl who also had no mask on at the time. There were about 60 girls and a sprinkling of customer in there at that time, mostly Asian customers and mostly senior citizens like me. Almost all of the girls were wearing those clear plastic face masks that look a little like welder's masks. LOL. But you can see their whole face behind it. As is usual for Thermae, the more obvious lookers had zero interest in me, responding to my Hello (in Thai), returning my smile or in the 2-3 other Farangs in the place. I finished one drink and moved on to Nana Plaza..[/QUOTE]Any coyotes or just house girls and Free of their own will girls.

Before c19 I don't see how Rainbow 2 could afforva whole lots of non descripet Coyotes. Of 30 girls I'd say 5 or so we're Barfined on a regular basis.

StickyBot reports 100 girls at both Rainbow 1 and 2.

No social distance on first night. LOL.

Those numbers of remind me of 2015 numbers.

I say give it a week most go back home.

Only the Hottest of the hot will remain.

How many Japan salarymen are there in Bangkok?

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2463217]Tonight I took a cruise through Soi Cowboy, stopped in Thermae and ended the evening in Nana Plaza. This was mostly a visual overview for me just to get a vibe of the bars after 3 1/2 months of closure.Nobody seemed needy, hungry, thirsty or eager to meet a customer, get a Lady Drink or be barfined. I mention that in case some of you guys not here are imagining the hottest girls must be crawling all over us, .[/QUOTE]Interesting!

So after lock down over seems not a lot of hungry nubile nymphs back in town casting their alluring net far and wide for old geezers like ourselves willing to fill their empty coffers. I haven't been out and about yet but good to know I won't need to bring the brolly along to beat them off.

You never know ET going home empty when they were previously sure of some Asian dick make have the consequence of umm hey that old codger don't look so bad after all.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2463217]My impression of the general vibe tonight was no different for me than if it had been normal times except for the servers wearing face masks and only 4-5 bars being open. And, of course, the very few customers around. The stages were filled with girls, looking and behaving no different than if it were the height of High Season. All the lookers were as aloof and seemingly disinterested in getting a Lady Drink or being barfined (by me) than if they were 3 months ahead on their rent and their smartphone top ups instead of 3 months behind.[/QUOTE]Thank you for this honest and realistic review.

Do you think that maybe the girls know you and are aware that you are only interested in "real" sex and that may have something to do with their attitudes? Do you think this will be the case for a customer they don't recognize?

[QUOTE=Zeus9;2455943]I've met this girl (QLee) in person. She finds customers on Thai friendly mostly. She will meet if you want. She charges 2500 for 4-5 hours and as many pops as you can handle. Usually I won't pay that much, but she was actually worth it. Nice body and will work hard with PSE the whole time. She is open to WHATEVER you are into. Or at least that's my experience. Last time when I talked to her she said she had been doing ok with online video chat income. So apparently enough people are willing to pay. Not me. There's lots of porn online, and still plenty of girls to meet in person. She did offer to give me a discount if we made some video of us fucking for her to use online. 1st time that's been offered to me, 555! But I'm not into any footage of me floating around on the internet.[/QUOTE]Hi Zeus,

The lady in your post sounds exactly what I'm looking for. Enthusiastic. Can you please let me know her age appropriately because l searched her name on TF and couldn't find her.

Many thanks.

Nice report. It sounds like not much has changed except less tourists. I have read a few reports that the ArtBox has been seeing some traffic with FL girls. Makes sense since it is better place than walking or hanging on Suk all night. Have you had a chance to check it out?

I also read that this area is slated for the wrecking ball and someone is building a five star hotel monstrosity there. Just what Bangkok needs!

[QUOTE=DazeUp;2463387]Thank you for this honest and realistic review.

Do you think that maybe the girls know you and are aware that you are only interested in "real" sex and that may have something to do with their attitudes? Do you think this will be the case for a customer they don't recognize?[/QUOTE]I'll tell how Rainbow girls work. If you are a Senior Citizen the lesser attractive will be on you like honey on bread. If you show no interest you likely will be left alone. LOL.

[QUOTE=DannyDuck;2463314]Any coyotes or just house girls and Free of their own will girls.

Before c19 I don't see how Rainbow 2 could afforva whole lots of non descripet Coyotes. Of 30 girls I'd say 5 or so we're Barfined on a regular basis.[/QUOTE]I haven't gone into Rainbow 2 yet. I did not see any obvious non barfinable Coyote/agency girls in the 2 Nana go-go bars I went into. But there might have been some. I didn't even buy a girl a drink that night.

[QUOTE=DannyDuck;2463439]I'll tell how Rainbow girls work. If you are a Senior Citizen the lesser attractive will be on you like honey on bread. If you show no interest you likely will be left alone. LOL.[/QUOTE]To me, Rainbow is the same as the others. I'm a farang senior and what you say is half of the story. The other half is that when I show strong interest in a hottie, she will almost always respond positively. On the other hand, the best time in my hotel has been with the girls who show interest in me without hard pursuit from me. These are seldom the true go-go hotties, but they are also better than average.

I tend to quickly move from one go-go bar to the next and the next until I find what I want. Often I don't even finish my drink before the loud music and no desirable girls push me to the next bar. I'm there to bar fine one girl, I have no interest in getting drunk. This was my method from February, March and prior trips. What I did then may not be workable now.

[QUOTE=DazeUp;2463387]Thank you for this honest and realistic review.

Do you think that maybe the girls know you and are aware that you are only interested in "real" sex and that may have something to do with their attitudes? Do you think this will be the case for a customer they don't recognize?[/QUOTE]I doubt it. That vibe and attitude prevails in Thermae even if I have not been in there for months. And I always observe it happening to other Farangs. But it could be that what I expect (and more) is more commonly expected or requested by Farangs anyway. So I fall into that category for them on first sight even if they'd never seen me before much less talked to me.

I fully intended to repeat my rounds tonight, this time with a more purposeful intent to take a girl, probably winding up in Nana Plaza again. But I never made it past Thermae at 9pm.

At 9pm tonight there could not have been more than 35 girls in Thermae and I counted only 4 customers, two Asian guys, another Farang and me. A group of 4 younger Asian guys came in a few minutes after I sat on a stool with my drink.

After a short while, I looked around and saw a lovely, slim, sweet face, mid 20's girl smiling at me from across the room. I went to her side (plenty of empty space to quietly speak freely these days). Chit chat about our names, where you from, the usual. Then I asked her if she preferred LT or ST. Up to me.

Long Time, 4,500, she said. I said I would give her 3,000 for LT IF we boom boom no condom. She said, you come outside? I said, I'll try, but probably not. LOL.

Done. We were on our way to my room, hand in hand, at 9:30pm, LT until I say bye sometime tomorrow.

It has been quite nice all around. She is laying naked, smooth and sweet as pie sleeping next to me now as I tap this out on my phone.

Of course, I am well aware that the real pros here would have gotten this girl for the same LT for 1,000 baht tops and done it without a word of discussion about condoms the whole time. But I am fine with paying the extra 2,000 baht to this one for the upfront assurance that the C-word and topic will not be uttered from the moment she took me by her dainty girlish hand and we left the bar.

YMMV.

[QUOTE=Tomasb;2463427]Nice report. It sounds like not much has changed except less tourists. I have read a few reports that the ArtBox has been seeing some traffic with FL girls. Makes sense since it is better place than walking or hanging on Suk all night. Have you had a chance to check it out?

I also read that this area is slated for the wrecking ball and someone is building a five star hotel monstrosity there. Just what Bangkok needs![/QUOTE]I did see a lot of girls sitting at the rear section of Artbox a couple of weeks ago and mentioned it in a report at that time. I was with a regular repeat girl that night so I did not approach any of the girls nor did I get much of a FL vibe from them. They all seemed more interested in having their own drinking party amongst themselves than interacting with or attracting the attention of the single men sitting at nearby tables though.

That was right before the ban on drinking alcohol in restaurants was lifted. Another night I stopped in Artbox after that night and I saw very few girls sitting around there.

I quite like the deep dish style pepperoni pizza at Yo! Pizza in Artbox, btw. Other flavors are good there too.

[QUOTE=DazeUp;2463387]Thank you for this honest and realistic review.

Do you think that maybe the girls know you and are aware that you are only interested in "real" sex and that may have something to do with their attitudes? Do you think this will be the case for a customer they don't recognize?[/QUOTE]Sorry for quoting you there a second time to reply. But I've given more thought to what you asked and wanted to add that the far more common behavior from girls I have spoken with before in Thermae but did not take because they did not agree upfront to my request for BBFS+CIP has been to reach out or flag me over to chat with them again.

It has rarely if ever been to turn away or recoil in horror when they see me again. Instead, they flag me over and want to say Hi, presumably because I am a familiar face, will politely chat with them again and they either want to see if I have changed my mind about the no condom thing or to tell me they have changed their mind about it.

Therefore, I would have to conclude that whatever those relatively few girls said about me to any other girls there (again, doubtful many would bother), whatever negative ripple effect it had would certainly not fit their observable enthusiasm to pull me into their space again, imo.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2463375]Interesting!

So after lock down over seems not a lot of hungry nubile nymphs back in town casting their alluring net far and wide for old geezers like ourselves willing to fill their empty coffers. I haven't been out and about yet but good to know I won't need to bring the brolly along to beat them off.

You never know ET going home empty when they were previously sure of some Asian dick make have the consequence of umm hey that old codger don't look so bad after all.[/QUOTE]Franciscuss, I still can't say I have noticed a dramatic or even noticeable difference. I had a good experience with a lovely Thermae girl tonight. But that had happened for me several times in the recent past before the lockdown. Maybe she agreed to LT for 1,000 baht less than what she could have held firm on if there had been more than 4-8 customers in the place, if it wasn't 3 days after rent was due and it wasn't raining outside. LOL.

And most of those conditions can be taken advantage of to shave off 25-30% of the cost during normal times if you don't mind waiting for the stars to line up.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2463486]Sorry for quoting you there a second time to reply. But I've given more thought to what you asked and wanted to add that the far more common behavior from girls I have spoken with before in Thermae but did not take because they did not agree upfront to my request for BBFS+CIP has been to reach out or flag me over to chat with them again.

It has rarely if ever been to turn away or recoil in horror when they see me again. Instead, they flag me over and want to say Hi, presumably because I am a familiar face, will politely chat with them again and they either want to see if I have changed my mind about the no condom thing or to tell me they have changed their mind about it.

Therefore, I would have to conclude that whatever those relatively few girls said about me to any other girls there (again, doubtful many would bother), whatever negative ripple effect it had would certainly not fit their observable enthusiasm to pull me into their space again, imo.[/QUOTE]I'm surprised you ask the girl before you take her to know if she'll give you BBFS. I never ask before! I always fuck them bareback, in Bangkok, in Pattaya or even in Cambodia. They let me fuck them bareback and they love that. Only few girls ask me more money to fuck them without condom.

Last time, I was in Nana Plaza in gogo Rainbow and she was so sexy *****, she was busy to drink with a Chinese. The Chinese spent so much money only in lady drinks. And I asked the mamasan that I wanted fuck her! And she told me to wait she finish with the chinese man. After maybe 1 hour of drinks, the chinese man decided to book her short time in room upstairs and when the lady go take her back and dress herself I followed her to the toilets quickly that I really wanted to go with her too.

And she was already little bit drunk, but she told me to wait her again in bar 30 min more. She told me with Chinese men they fuck very quickly and then she will go with me.

And I was so happy, when she came back the gogo 40 minutes after. She came to me directly, she was very surprised I was still waiting for her. And she started to kiss me so deep with tongue, and she told me she was drunk and smile. And she played with my dick and was shagging on me. I just paid her 1 drink (and not 10 like the Chinese before LOL) and I asked to go fuck her! She asked me 2000 + 500 for bar + 500 for room. I said OK. I was so horny that I didn't try to negotiate.

Just when I say OK, she asked me if I've condoms. I said NO and I told her that she as so sexy that I really wanted to fuck her bareback. And she told me "OK darling but you have to give me 1000 more". Anf of course I say yes! And I think she loved to fuck with me in room. We fuck together during almost 2 hours and I came twice in her pussy. She didn't say me nothing and even after in the shower were together and she let me fuck her again few minutes. It was a great night.

[QUOTE=Gilolo;2463509]I'm surprised you ask the girl before you take her to know if she'll give you BBFS. I never ask before! I always fuck them bareback, in Bangkok, in Pattaya or even in Cambodia. They let me fuck them bareback and they love that. Only few girls ask me more money to fuck them without condom.

Last time, I was in Nana Plaza in gogo Rainbow and she was so sexy *****, she was busy to drink with a Chinese. The Chinese spent so much money only in lady drinks. And I asked the mamasan that I wanted fuck her! And she told me to wait she finish with the chinese man. After maybe 1 hour of drinks, the chinese man decided to book her short time in room upstairs and when the lady go take her back and dress herself I followed her to the toilets quickly that I really wanted to go with her too.

And she was already little bit drunk, but she told me to wait her again in bar 30 min more. She told me with Chinese men they fuck very quickly and then she will go with me.

And I was so happy, when she came back the gogo 40 minutes after. She came to me directly, she was very surprised I was still waiting for her. And she started to kiss me so deep with tongue, and she told me she was drunk and smile. And she played with my dick and was shagging on me. I just paid her 1 drink (and not 10 like the Chinese before LOL) and I asked to go fuck her! She asked me 2000 + 500 for bar + 500 for room. I said OK. I was so horny that I didn't try to negotiate.

Just when I say OK, she asked me if I've condoms. I said NO and I told her that she as so sexy that I really wanted to fuck her bareback. And she told me "OK darling but you have to give me 1000 more". Anf of course I say yes! And I think she loved to fuck with me in room. We fuck together during almost 2 hours and I came twice in her pussy. She didn't say me nothing and even after in the shower were together and she let me fuck her again few minutes. It was a great night.[/QUOTE]Then in that case you had a conversation with the girl about condoms or bareback upfront in the bar before you took her and even came to an agreement on an extra amount of money to go bareback, just as I prefer. I'm fine with that. And sometimes no extra amount of money is required.

But my greater preference is to avoid even this much of a conversation about condoms in the room when we are about to have sex: "Just when I say OK, she asked me if I've condom."

Therefore, to avoid even that much of a conversation about condoms in my room, I will often be the one to bring up the topic in the bar, club or on the soi if the girl hasn't mentioned it first as your Rainbow girl did. And then we can hash out whatever agreement for extra money or not to go bareback as you did with her.

Not sure why you would be surprised about having an upfront conversation about bareback with a girl before you take her when it seems to me from your reports that it happens often enough in your experience too when the girl brings it up in conversation. I just prefer to bring it up and get it settled upfront if she doesn't, that's all.

[QUOTE=Expatabroad;2463389]Hi Zeus,

The lady in your post sounds exactly what I'm looking for. Enthusiastic. Can you please let me know her age appropriately because l searched her name on TF and couldn't find her.

Many thanks.[/QUOTE]She is 32 years old, but looks younger in my opinion. You can PM me for her line ID. A few members she has said that she will only do cam stuff online. And a few others she has agreed to meet in person. So it sounds like she is being a bit picky. And she is still asking for 2500 baht to meet in person. That's the feedback that I've gotten from other members.

Many thanks for taking the time to reply, sadly though l am only a basic member and unable to PM you. I will try to narrow her down based on her age.

Thanks again.

[QUOTE=Zeus9;2463575]She is 32 years old, but looks younger in my opinion. You can PM me for her line ID. A few members she has said that she will only do cam stuff online. And a few others she has agreed to meet in person. So it sounds like she is being a bit picky. And she is still asking for 2500 baht to meet in person. That's the feedback that I've gotten from other members.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2463574]Then in that case you had a conversation with the girl about condoms or bareback upfront in the bar before you took her and even came to an agreement on an extra amount of money to go bareback, just as I prefer. I'm fine with that. And sometimes no extra amount of money is required.

But my greater preference is to avoid even this much of a conversation about condoms in the room when we are about to have sex: "Just when I say OK, she asked me if I've condom."

Therefore, to avoid even that much of a conversation about condoms in my room, I will often be the one to bring up the topic in the bar, club or on the soi if the girl hasn't mentioned it first as your Rainbow girl did. And then we can hash out whatever agreement for extra money or not to go bareback as you did with her.

Not sure why you would be surprised about having an upfront conversation about bareback with a girl before you take her when it seems to me from your reports that it happens often enough in your experience too when the girl brings it up in conversation. I just prefer to bring it up and get it settled upfront if she doesn't, that's all.[/QUOTE]I understand what you mean. But 80% of the time the girls don't ask or even don't speak about condoms! Only few ask for condoms in the room just to get more money and it works all the time. That's why I never ask a lady before in bar or gogos to fuck her bareback.

[blue][Deleted by Admin][/blue]

[b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]This report was redacted or deleted to remove sections of the report that were [u]largely argumentative[/u]. Please read the Forum FAQ and the Forum's Posting Guidelines for more information. [i]Thank You![/i][/blue]

[QUOTE=Gilolo;2463656]I understand what you mean. But 80% of the time the girls don't ask or even don't speak about condoms! Only few ask for condoms in the room just to get more money and it works all the time. That's why I never ask a lady before in bar or gogos to fuck her bareback.[/QUOTE]A 20% chance of zero sex with a girl I have barfined, spent an hour or two of my evening to engage with and taken to my apartment is too much. I'd rather have that conversation upfront, get it settled one way or the other in the bar before I have invested the barfine money and the time only to find myself an hour or more later kneeling on the bed sporting an erection with no place to put it.

Yes, I liked the 'Yo' deep dish pizza place at ArtBox (aka Detroit Blue Pan). There is one in my neighborhood in US. When I went over to ArtBox one night in late March, they had closed but perhaps that was due to Covid. Glad to hear they reopened. I also like the rice beer called Copper Beer in front right side of ArtBox. For a while they were selling it by the can for 80 bt. It's made from Jasmine rice too somewhere in Isan. Cheap beer and pizza equals cheap Charlie date.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2463479]I did see a lot of girls sitting at the rear section of Artbox a couple of weeks ago and mentioned it in a report at that time. I was with a regular repeat girl that night so I did not approach any of the girls nor did I get much of a FL vibe from them. They all seemed more interested in having their own drinking party amongst themselves than interacting with or attracting the attention of the single men sitting at nearby tables though.

That was right before the ban on drinking alcohol in restaurants was lifted. Another night I stopped in Artbox after that night and I saw very few girls sitting around there.

I quite like the deep dish style pepperoni pizza at Yo! Pizza in Artbox, btw. Other flavors are good there too.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2463765]A 20% chance of zero sex with a girl I have barfined, spent an hour or two of my evening to engage with and taken to my apartment is too much. I'd rather have that conversation upfront, get it settled one way or the other in the bar before I have invested the barfine money and the time only to find myself an hour or more later kneeling on the bed sporting an erection with no place to put it.[/QUOTE]I understand what you mean. But you know in Thailand even if you buy Thai condoms, each time Thai condoms breaks very easily. You know many years ago, I wanted to fuck only with condoms, and each time I was fucking the lady, each time at the end of the session when I come, I noticed the condom was broken.

And if really you want fuck her without, just take off the condom in doggy and fuck her again!

I stayed recently in the Grand Sukhumvit Hotel. And they have a nightclub in the basement? I was with a girlfriend at the time I walked by the club and could not partake, but there were some very pretty freelancers at the bar. I'the like to try it next time I'm there, after the pandemic. Does anyone know the name of the nightclub and what the particulars are about the club? Especially the going rate for short time. Thanks!

[QUOTE=Gilolo;2463786]I understand what you mean. But you know in Thailand even if you buy Thai condoms, each time Thai condoms breaks very easily. You know many years ago, I wanted to fuck only with condoms, and each time I was fucking the lady, each time at the end of the session when I come, I noticed the condom was broken.

And if really you want fuck her without, just take off the condom in doggy and fuck her again![/QUOTE]The condoms broke every time? Out of how many times? More than 20? That seems excessive. Are you sure you weren't mishandling, stretching them in all directions or doing something else a bit too much before putting them on?

No, I am afraid your tactics for getting bareback from the girls, leading them to believe you will love and support them forever, taking them when they are falling down drunk, doing whatever to break or remove the condom when they are not looking and so on are not really my style.

Not from an ethical or moral standpoint so much as from an impractical and bothersome standpoint.

Why not just try what I do, tell them what you want upfront when they are sober ("boom boom no condom"), early enough so they have plenty of time to think about it and make an informed decision to say Yes or to simply choose another customer if it is No and see how that goes?

[QUOTE=Tommylove;2464085]I stayed recently in the Grand Sukhumvit Hotel. And they have a nightclub in the basement? I was with a girlfriend at the time I walked by the club and could not partake, but there were some very pretty freelancers at the bar. I'the like to try it next time I'm there, after the pandemic. Does anyone know the name of the nightclub and what the particulars are about the club? Especially the going rate for short time. Thanks![/QUOTE]TL,

Are you sure it's the Grand Sukhumvit Hotel you refer to? On Suk Soi 6, coming from Soi 4 it's on the right hand side just before the Soi turns left and heads up to Sukhumvit? My surprise is because last I heard a couple of years ago this hotel was reported as joiner unfriendly (I don't recall whether it was an absolute prohibition or THB 1500 joiner fee) and was removed from the various guest / joiner friendly hotel sites. Their main market became tour groups by the busload and it seems unlikely to me that a "family friendly" hotel would be allowing freelancers into the bar / nightclub.

[QUOTE=Gilolo;2463786]And if really you want fuck her without, just take off the condom in doggy and fuck her again![/QUOTE]That would be engaging in an activity either without her consent or explicitly contrary to her consent. That is sexual assault and / or rape.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2464108]The condoms broke every time? Out of how many times? More than 20? That seems excessive. Are you sure you weren't mishandling, stretching them in all directions or doing something else a bit too much before putting them on?

No, I am afraid your tactics for getting bareback from the girls, leading them to believe you will love and support them forever, taking them when they are falling down drunk, doing whatever to break or remove the condom when they are not looking and so on are not really my style.

Not from an ethical or moral standpoint so much as from an impractical and bothersome standpoint.

Why not just try what I do, tell them what you want upfront when they are sober ("boom boom no condom"), early enough so they have plenty of time to think about it and make an informed decision to say Yes or to simply choose another customer if it is No and see how that goes?[/QUOTE]This is a good conversation. I've actually had about 50% of Thai condoms break because they are too small, cheap, was doing lazy dog and girl got dry and I lasted to long. I've had good success getting bareback without asking before hand but I'm getting to the point where I'd like to know its a given. My first attempt was asking up front on Thaifriendly and I was totally shut down, bear in mind 50% are fine with it if they come over without asking. That was a shock. But I have better luck in person. In US since everything is online I'm trying to meet once first then request bareback for second meet. Still work in progress for me.

[QUOTE=GettingFedUp;2464175]That would be engaging in an activity either without her consent or explicitly contrary to her consent. That is sexual assault and / or rape.[/QUOTE]Are there statutes covering a situation where a girl is fooled into believing her partner is using a condom. Could be wrong but I kind of don't think so. Cannot see it falling under the remit of rape or sexual assault. Would not she have to bear personal responsibility for ensuring he was wearing a condom? On the other hand I have no doubt she could sue in civil court for all sort of damages for stress etc. Now if she contracted a STD especially if it could be shown he knew he was a carrier that would be grounds for charges of reckless endangerment. Either way it is totally reprehensible that anybody would deceive a girl into believing he was wearing a condom when he was not.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2464108]The condoms broke every time? Out of how many times? More than 20? That seems excessive. Are you sure you weren't mishandling, stretching them in all directions or doing something else a bit too much before putting them on?

No, I am afraid your tactics for getting bareback from the girls, leading them to believe you will love and support them forever, taking them when they are falling down drunk, doing whatever to break or remove the condom when they are not looking and so on are not really my style.

Not from an ethical or moral standpoint so much as from an impractical and bothersome standpoint.

Why not just try what I do, tell them what you want upfront when they are sober ("boom boom no condom"), early enough so they have plenty of time to think about it and make an informed decision to say Yes or to simply choose another customer if it is No and see how that goes?[/QUOTE]I think this is great advice and the only appropriate way to deal.

Mutual respect.

Does anyone know if Kasalong increased their pricing at all?

[QUOTE=Gilolo;2463786]I understand what you mean. But you know in Thailand even if you buy Thai condoms, each time Thai condoms breaks very easily. You know many years ago, I wanted to fuck only with condoms, and each time I was fucking the lady, each time at the end of the session when I come, I noticed the condom was broken.

And if really you want fuck her without, just take off the condom in doggy and fuck her again![/QUOTE]Firstly you make yourself sound like a total imbecile with your inability to perform basic tasks like choosing a suitable condom and using it correctly. Then you reveal yourself to be a total lowlife who think it's "cool" to commit rape.

Guys, you need to stop responding to the trolls.

[QUOTE=Zman429;2464183]This is a good conversation. I've actually had about 50% of Thai condoms break because they are too small, cheap, was doing lazy dog and girl got dry and I lasted to long. I've had good success getting bareback without asking before hand but I'm getting to the point where I'd like to know its a given. My first attempt was asking up front on Thaifriendly and I was totally shut down, bear in mind 50% are fine with it if they come over without asking. That was a shock. But I have better luck in person. In US since everything is online I'm trying to meet once first then request bareback for second meet. Still work in progress for me.[/QUOTE]Yes, my experience with getting an upfront agreement for BBFS+CIP with girls I've met on the dating sites has been that I get the worst results when I have only texted with them, much better results when I have video chatted at least enough to see each other and say Hello, best results when we have met in person.

And those best results when I meet in person naturally carry over to encounters in the go-go bars and FLs on the street or in bars and clubs to a various degree depending on the bar or club.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2464197]Are there statutes covering a situation where a girl is fooled into believing her partner is using a condom. Could be wrong but I kind of don't think so.[/QUOTE]So if the male nurse or hospital orderly screws the patient who's in a coma because she didn't say "NO" that's okay? Or if she's out of it through drink, drugs, diabetic coma?

If the lady doesn't, or cannot, consent it is sexual assault and / or rape. The OP was specific in suggesting a method so that she could not be aware of what was happening and therefore could neither consent nor raise objections, or alternatively acting against the limitations consented to.

There was a case in the UK a couple of years ago where some ladies had consensual sex with some guy that they met on Tinder. The partner insisted they wore a blindfold because of shyness. Turned out the partner was a lesbian TV with a strap-on. Off to gaol (jail for American speakers) she went.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2464197]Are there statutes covering a situation where a girl is fooled into believing her partner is using a condom. Could be wrong but I kind of don't think so. Cannot see it falling under the remit of rape or sexual assault. Would not she have to bear personal responsibility for ensuring he was wearing a condom? On the other hand I have no doubt she could sue in civil court for all sort of damages for stress etc. Now if she contracted a STD especially if it could be shown he knew he was a carrier that would be grounds for charges of reckless endangerment. Either way it is totally reprehensible that anybody would deceive a girl into believing he was wearing a condom when he was not.[/QUOTE]It would be facinating if it turned out Thai law more or less agreed with my contention all along that bareback sex ought to be considered Real Sex while sex with a condom is, well, something else. LOL. I think that is what such a law would be asserting if consensual "sex" with a condom becomes an actual act of sex only when the condom is removed.

Otherwise, I would operate on the assumption that any resistance, wiggling away, attempted closing of legs, hand over pussy, exclamaion of "Condom!", etc during a session means No/Stop and that forging ahead anyway is a form of sexual assault.

Actually, any of those obvious expressions of resistance (the "Condom!" exclamation not applying) even when you are wearing a condom would still be a form of sexual assault, imo.

And it would likely be especially so if the man's reaction to any hint of genuine resistance is to display potential rage, violence, a tightening grip on the girl's neck, a balling up of a fist and so on until she goes silent about her resistance and does comply.

I realize such an interaction can be loaded with nuance as applied to the law. But generally the man knows what he did to convince a girl to "change her mind", to go along with bareback or anything else "without further discussion" in this way.

[QUOTE=GettingFedUp;2464279]So if the male nurse or hospital orderly screws the patient who's in a coma because she didn't say "NO" that's okay? Or if she's out of it through drink, drugs, diabetic coma?

If the lady doesn't, or cannot, consent it is sexual assault and / or rape. The OP was specific in suggesting a method so that she could not be aware of what was happening and therefore could neither consent nor raise objections, or alternatively acting against the limitations consented to.
....[/QUOTE]But we're talking about a situation where an adult has consented to have sex. True, the falling down drunk part is cloudy though.

On the bareback vs condom issue, I would argue there is no reason whatsoever to assume, as a legal matter, that when someone says, "Yes, let's fuck," she or he means with a condom. Not even if it is "customary" for everyone that girl has ever known to only have sex with a condom.

If wearing a condom is the requirement or that person will feel sexually assaulted or raped, I would strongly suggest they say so with, for example, "Let's fuck with you wearing a condom."

However, as in my previous post examples, once the person genuinely resists and/or communicates "No/Stop" but the other person forges ahead anyway without a change of heart reached in the absence of the threat of physical harm, then we are heading into sexual assault territory, imo, condom or no condom.

[QUOTE=ApolloNull;2464247]Does anyone know if Kasalong increased their pricing at all?[/QUOTE]What was the old price?

[QUOTE=Gilolo;2463786]I understand what you mean. But you know in Thailand even if you buy Thai condoms, each time Thai condoms breaks very easily. You know many years ago, I wanted to fuck only with condoms, and each time I was fucking the lady, each time at the end of the session when I come, I noticed the condom was broken.

And if really you want fuck her without, just take off the condom in doggy and fuck her again![/QUOTE]It is because of lowlifes like you that farangs are being more and more avoided by the better looking Thai girls and Asians are the flavor of choice.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2464297]But we're talking about a situation where an adult has consented to have sex. True, the falling down drunk part is cloudy though.

On the bareback vs condom issue, I would argue there is no reason whatsoever to assume, as a legal matter, that when someone says, "Yes, let's fuck," she or he means with a condom. Not even if it is "customary" for everyone that girl has ever known to only have sex with a condom.

If wearing a condom is the requirement or that person will feel sexually assaulted or raped, I would strongly suggest they say so with, for example, "Let's fuck with you wearing a condom."

However, as in my previous post examples, once the person genuinely resists and/or communicates "No/Stop" but the other person forges ahead anyway without a change of heart reached in the absence of the threat of physical harm, then we are heading into sexual assault territory, imo, condom or no condom.[/QUOTE]Anyway, what I know is each time I go Thailand, Pattaya, Bkk, Phuket, or Cambodia and Philippines, all the sexy girls I fuck never use condoms! And when they ask condoms, if you really want fuck them bareback, the magic word is money or gold!

All the ladies fucks without condom, a few ask some tips and the best sexy working girls, pro escorts usually want big money!

If you give them what they want, if you give them the price they want, they ll all let you fuck them bareback!

Gold and money for these girls are the freedom! They're all obsessed about money and gold!

Even when you meet sexy lady, who has boyfriend, even she say to you she's loyal and stay only with him, even if the boyfriend takes care of her good, if you propose money she ll always say yes! And again without condom! You can get her all the time, it depends only of the amount you're ready to apy to have her!

Last time I was in hotel in Pattaya, the morning on breakfast, the 2 first days, there was a very sexy girl who stay there with her boyfriend (farang tourist boyfriend). The guy was totally in love as I can see and the girlfriend look like she was in love to him and she ignore all the men in the hotel who were looking at her!

And the next day I saw her alone, in the lift of the hotel, she was going back to the room of the boyfriend, and then because she was alone, I started to speak little bit with her! I said lot of bullshits to her, like when I was her in the breakfast, I was totally in love of her at first sight, that I was very sad she was busy with boyfriend. I said lot of nice things that I was ready to do everything for her. (I knew to get her, I would have to pay a lot).

And she say me she was sorry but she loved her boyfriend and didn't want to go with other man that boyfriend gives her big money everyday to stay with her!

So on that moment I know she wanted big money! Then I asked her how much the boyfriend pay her and she told me 3000 everyday!

And me I told her I was ready to pay her same just for ST for 1 hour now, if she was OK to come my room directly before she go room of her boyfriend!

And she was smiling, and she say she cannot! LOL.

Then I told her, it will be secret, nobody will know and in future I'll become her regular customer!

And I knew on that moment, she was almost ready to accept!

And to be sure she accepts, I told her OK "my last price, I pay you 5000" for 1 hour! And 5000 was the magic word!

She came fuck with me in my room much more than 1 hour! And you know what? I fucked her bareback! No condom! Nothing! And I came inside her pussy!

And she was very happy! And me too!

And now she's one of my regular working girls in Pattaya!

And she's still with the boyfriend who loves her and pay her condo and send her money every 2 weeks!

And she still fuck with me bareback and I know she fucks with many other men!

Thai ladies totally don't care about farangs or men! They just care about money and gold!

[QUOTE=Mens2;2464312]What was the old price?[/QUOTE]It was 800 last I went in Oct last year.

[QUOTE=Gilolo;2464334]Anyway, what I know is each time I go Thailand, Pattaya, Bkk, Phuket, or Cambodia and Philippines, all the sexy girls I fuck never use condoms! And when they ask condoms, if you really want fuck them bareback, the magic word is money or gold!

All the ladies fucks without condom, a few ask some tips and the best sexy working girls, pro escorts usually want big money!

If you give them what they want, if you give them the price they want, they ll all let you fuck them bareback!

Gold and money for these girls are the freedom! They're all obsessed about money and gold!

Even when you meet sexy lady, who has boyfriend, even she say to you she's loyal and stay only with him, even if the boyfriend takes care of her good, if you propose money she ll always say yes! And again without condom! You can get her all the time, it depends only of the amount you're ready to apy to have her!

Last time I was in hotel in Pattaya, the morning on breakfast, the 2 first days, there was a very sexy girl who stay there with her boyfriend (farang tourist boyfriend). The guy was totally in love as I can see and the girlfriend look like she was in love to him and she ignore all the men in the hotel who were looking at her!

And the next day I saw her alone, in the lift of the hotel, she was going back to the room of the boyfriend, and then because she was alone, I started to speak little bit with her! I said lot of bullshits to her, like when I was her in the breakfast, I was totally in love of her at first sight, that I was very sad she was busy with boyfriend. I said lot of nice things that I was ready to do everything for her. (I knew to get her, I would have to pay a lot).

And she say me she was sorry but she loved her boyfriend and didn't want to go with other man that boyfriend gives her big money everyday to stay with her!

So on that moment I know she wanted big money! Then I asked her how much the boyfriend pay her and she told me 3000 everyday!

And me I told her I was ready to pay her same just for ST for 1 hour now, if she was OK to come my room directly before she go room of her boyfriend!

And she was smiling, and she say she cannot! LOL.

Then I told her, it will be secret, nobody will know and in future I'll become her regular customer!

And I knew on that moment, she was almost ready to accept!

And to be sure she accepts, I told her OK "my last price, I pay you 5000" for 1 hour! And 5000 was the magic word!

She came fuck with me in my room much more than 1 hour! And you know what? I fucked her bareback! No condom! Nothing! And I came inside her pussy!

And she was very happy! And me too!

And now she's one of my regular working girls in Pattaya!

And she's still with the boyfriend who loves her and pay her condo and send her money every 2 weeks!

And she still fuck with me bareback and I know she fucks with many other men!

Thai ladies totally don't care about farangs or men! They just care about money and gold![/QUOTE]I can't argue with that. Whenever it is asked, "Do girls in this or that venue go bareback?" I have always said every girl fucks somebody bareback. The only challenge is to have that somebody be you.

And I agree that every girl has a price. The top Victoria Secret model or Kate Middleton in her prime had a price. Maybe in Middleton's case it would have been some mythical offer of "fuck me bareback and I will cure world hunger" or some such shit. But there was a price, something of value, an amount that could convince Kate Middleton or any duchess or princess to fuck a stranger bareback within an hour. LOL. Apparently, an offer to make her a duchess did the job.

Thankfully, much less than that is enough to convince Thai hookers to go bareback.

And, obviously, your getting all the necessary particulars with that hotel girl settled upfront is very much my preference.

We don't know if there was some confrontation or deception about condom or no condom in the room prior to vaginal entry, of course. But assuming there was none or that part had been settled upfront as well, that would also be my style. Although it is doubtful I would have interjected myself while she was actively involved in making good on her support deal with the other guy.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2464425]

And I agree that every girl has a price. The top Victoria Secret model.... in her prime had a price. [/QUOTE]You mean like this?

[URL]https://www.harpersbazaar.com/celebrity/latest/a10229392/miranda-kerr-returns-jewelry-jho-low/[/URL]

I'm sure she was with the short, fat, old money launderer purely for love before moving on to the SnapChat billionaire. 😃.

Enjoy. G.

[QUOTE=GettingFedUp;2464279]So if the male nurse or hospital orderly screws the patient who's in a coma because she didn't say "NO" that's okay? Or if she's out of it through drink, drugs, diabetic coma?

If the lady doesn't, or cannot, consent it is sexual assault and / or rape. The OP was specific in suggesting a method so that she could not be aware of what was happening and therefore could neither consent nor raise objections, or alternatively acting against the limitations consented to.

There was a case in the UK a couple of years ago where some ladies had consensual sex with some guy that they met on Tinder. The partner insisted they wore a blindfold because of shyness. Turned out the partner was a lesbian TV with a strap-on. Off to gaol (jail for American speakers) she went.[/QUOTE]The issue is whether having her believing he was wearing a condom when he was not is a crime. So you need to find the statute he could be charged under. You mentioned two, rape and sexual assault.

Rape: "The penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim."

Sexual assault is more wide ranging and varies from country to country but essentially "it is an act of physical, psychological and emotional violation in the form of a sexual act, inflicted on someone without their consent".

I've tried but cannot find a single instance of somebody being charged with a crime because she thought he was wearing a condom when he was not.

I don't understand the example you mentioned involving the male nurse. He is guilty of rape because there was no consent. How can somebody in a coma say no?

The UK case you mentioned is interesting. I wasn't aware of it and after trying to google it all I kept getting were porn sites. If possible can you sent a link.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2464290]It would be facinating if it turned out Thai law more or less agreed with my contention all along that bareback sex ought to be considered Real Sex while sex with a condom is, well, something else. LOL. I think that is what such a law would be asserting if consensual "sex" with a condom becomes an actual act of sex only when the condom is removed..[/QUOTE]I am assuming ET your post is a tongue in cheek attempt at being funny otherwise I can only assume your wanting to chance the penal code and have all women available for BBFS has affected your reasoning. It seems you can get more than enough girls to go bareback so why not leave it, some girl will some will not, some guys want it some guys don't.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2464425]I agree that every girl has a price. The top Victoria Secret model or Kate Middleton in her prime had a price..[/QUOTE]So ET every girl is a prostitute, it's just a matter of how much. Your mother must be very proud of you. You know reading the forum nowadays makes me wonder if there is a correlation between serial mongering and misogyny.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2464265]Guys, you need to stop responding to the trolls.[/QUOTE]I agree. This G person had already posted about having sloppy seconds from a drunken agogo girl back in early June. [post]2456792[/post]

That older post included a stolen act of feeling up another man's lady. Seriously, that's ground for a beat-up amongst my mates.

I do not believe any of G's reports, considering they are poorly written without a coherent prose, proper grammar or spelling checks.

Thus, his money-speaks story of 'stealing' away a TG in Pattaya hotel is unlikely, but surely repeated often in that thread (I don't read PTY forum, so someone else will have to check.).

Reminds me of another troll, whose handle starts with G.

ET is right that any push after resistance of any means is a no-no. I also agree about conscious decision, so I avoid drunk girls. If my lady of the night ended up intoxicated after a fun-filled outing, I let her sleep it off until next day when she's fully capable of consent. Being a gentleman goes a long way.

Seeko.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2464462]I don't understand the example you mentioned involving the male nurse. He is guilty of rape because there was no consent. How can somebody in a coma say no?

The UK case you mentioned is interesting. I wasn't aware of it and after trying to google it all I kept getting were porn sites. If possible can you sent a link.[/QUOTE]The legal definitions vary from place to place. For instance in some countries it's only counted as rape if it involves violence (from memory Spain), in others lack of consent or an inability to consent is rape.

With regard to the Male nurse. If the partner cannot consent or refuse because she is unaware then it cannot be consensual. The OP was clearly choosing a method by which she couldn't know that the condom was being removed and so could not consent or protest.

The UK case was Gemma Watts [URL]https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-50985868[/URL] . It appears that my recollection is flawed because it was Instagram and Snapchat, not Tinder, and they omit the more lurid details on the BBC.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2464464]I am assuming ET your post is a tongue in cheek attempt at being funny otherwise I can only assume your wanting to chance the penal code and have all women available for BBFS has affected your reasoning. It seems you can get more than enough girls to go bareback so why not leave it, some girl will some will not, some guys want it some guys don't.[/QUOTE]Franciscass, I think that is a silly stretch to find something worthy of moral outrage in my post.

I was merely riffing on another poster's notion that even the law probably recognizes that having consensual sex with a condom is far enough away from having "Real Sex" that rape or sexual assault comes into play if the condom is removed during the act without the woman's knowledge.

I didn't need to do a Google Search to know there is no such law on the books.

However, I would bet serious money (figuratively speaking, of course) that there were a lot more members here for whom that same thought did cross their mind while reading Gilolo's report than just GettingFedUp 😁

It is now considered rape in the UK and most of Europe to remove a condom during sex without consent. Here's an example:

[URL]https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/rape-condom-sex-worker-unprotected-lee-hogben-guilty-bournemouth-a8884726.html[/URL]

[URL]en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-consensual_condom_removal[/URL]

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2464496]So ET every girl is a prostitute, it's just a matter of how much. Your mother must be very proud of you. You know reading the forum nowadays makes me wonder if there is a correlation between serial mongering and misogyny.[/QUOTE]The world of hot chick models and things that are available to high rollers isn't something you should dismiss. Its a good old boys club, and not-so-secret side gig of models. That has the unwritten rule that you absolutely never ever discuss it with people who aren't part of the club. Especially in europe its even more straight forward on what is available to a select few and that for these models, well, that's just part of what you could do as part of the job if you want. Mostly though, its usually just being a hot chick getting paid to hang around with obscenely rich "old money" guys of whatever age and partying all day / night and sex isn't necessarily included. But you know, if they want sex, they can ask for the girl (s) that will, and its a service that's on the table for the right clients.

[QUOTE=Gilolo;2464334]And now she's one of my regular working girls in Pattaya!

And she's still with the boyfriend who loves her and pay her condo and send her money every 2 weeks!

And she still fuck with me bareback and I know she fucks with many other men!

Thai ladies totally don't care about farangs or men! They just care about money and gold![/QUOTE]From what I've read, and experienced with dozens of Thai ladies, is that many of them care for their family. Many support themselves and their family, mothers, fathers, children, etc, with the funds they obtain through sex work. Without sex work many would be much worse off financially.

[QUOTE=*****man;2464637]It is now considered rape in the UK and most of Europe to remove a condom during sex without consent. Here's an example:

[URL]https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/rape-condom-sex-worker-unprotected-lee-hogben-guilty-bournemouth-a8884726.html[/URL]

[URL]en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-consensual_condom_removal[/URL][/QUOTE] He was not charged with rape for removing the condom. This was the reason:

[QUOTE]Lee Hogben, 35, ignored his female victims repeated pleas to stop during the session in a Bournemouth hotel room.
...
She said: “Hogben went beyond what was consented to by removing the protection, which the complainant will say was a condition of intercourse.

“She repeatedly protested, “I don’t do that – please, no”. She tried to wriggle away but he told her to stop. He told her he had beaten people up and robbed people.” [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2464496]So ET every girl is a prostitute, it's just a matter of how much. Your mother must be very proud of you. You know reading the forum nowadays makes me wonder if there is a correlation between serial mongering and misogyny.[/QUOTE]I want to live in your world where men pay no price for it and females hand out sex for nothing in exchange for it, not marriage, not commitment, not support, not protection, not security, not fame, status or evil direct payment of money.

Where is that world, btw?

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2464496] {Snip}You know reading the forum nowadays makes me wonder if there is a correlation between serial mongering and misogyny.[/QUOTE]Good point. The correlation is probably narcissism?

[QUOTE=*****man;2464637]It is now considered rape in the UK and most of Europe to remove a condom during sex without consent. Here's an example:

[URL]https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/rape-condom-sex-worker-unprotected-lee-hogben-guilty-bournemouth-a8884726.html[/URL]

[URL]en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-consensual_condom_removal[/URL][/QUOTE]My thanks for your research and I stand corrected.

The Wikipedia link does indeed show convictions for sexual assault in Germany and Switzerland as a result of stealthily removing a condom.

For the record in Switzerland the Supreme Court in Zurich later disagreed with the lower court's ruling and held while regrettable it was not illegal.

In Germany as I understand the legal basis for the conviction was direct evidence from the victim that consent to sex was conditional on wearing a condom. By stealthily removing the condom he was breaking the basis of that consent. In other words she was no longer consenting to sex.

The UK case was a straight forward conviction for rape not because he stealthily removed a condom but because she would not have sex with him without a condom.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2464752]I want to live in your world where men pay no price for it and females hand out sex for nothing in exchange for it, not marriage, not commitment, not support, not protection, not security, not fame, status or evil direct payment of money.

Where is that world, btw?[/QUOTE]With respect ET you obviously haven't noticed that world is already here. Yes agreed it's still mostly a patriarchal society but more and more women no longer need men to take care of them.

Moreover while not generally accepted in polite society it's always been the case women have sex not just because it is a quid pro quo for support, security, fame, status or money but because just like the rest us they get horny.

[QUOTE=GettingFedUp;2464534]The legal definitions vary from place to place. For instance in some countries it's only counted as rape if it involves violence (from memory Spain), in others lack of consent or an inability to consent is rape.

With regard to the Male nurse. If the partner cannot consent or refuse because she is unaware then it cannot be consensual. The OP was clearly choosing a method by which she couldn't know that the condom was being removed and so could not consent or protest.

The UK case was Gemma Watts [URL]https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-50985868[/URL] . It appears that my recollection is flawed because it was Instagram and Snapchat, not Tinder, and they omit the more lurid details on the BBC.[/QUOTE]The basis for the grooming charges are obvious but less so the sexual assault charges. Perhaps the fact that Watts was 21 and the victims were 13, 14 and 16 ?

While deception was at the center of this case I fail to see the relevance as it relates to the stealthing that went on in the case of the discarded condom.

I've enjoyed the exchanges but as I'm not sure if we will ever see eye to eye can we leave at lets agree to disagree.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2464752]I want to live in your world where men pay no price for it and females hand out sex for nothing in exchange for it, not marriage, not commitment, not support, not protection, not security, not fame, status or evil direct payment of money.

Where is that world, btw?[/QUOTE]Agreed. There is always some exchange. It's not misogyny, it's simply the way it is. And Asians realize that and embrace it.

[QUOTE=Stykler;2464767]Good point. The correlation is probably narcissism?[/QUOTE]While the vast majority of men would be perfectly content to live in a world where we received zero compensation financially or otherwise for having sexual intercourse with any and all females, that cannot be the case for females. It cannot be by virtue of the inconvenient fact that it is the female of the species that gets pregnant, is pulled out of action for months before and years after the child is born.

We men can even be out fucking and making more babies during the very hour she is giving birth to the child.

Consequently, expecting compensation in some meaningful material way for the fucking is the normal, natural mode of behavior for females. Out of necessity.

Really, gents. You must find a way to rid yourselves of this damagingly Puritanical view of women expecting payment for having sex with us as a sure sign of their moral transgression and our hatred for them. Yes, in that way they are all hookers and we are all customers. Sorry.

Unless you want to flog yourselves with a wet noodle for engaging in this hobby that merely mirrors the normal, natural dynamic between males and females on this planet for the propagation of humanity.

Even my mother understood and accepted this reality, as all mothers would.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2464785]Agreed. There is always some exchange. It's not misogyny, it's simply the way it is. And Asians realize that and embrace it.[/QUOTE]Ah. Beat me to it as I was writing 😁.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2464789]Really, gents. You must find a way to rid yourselves of this damagingly Puritanical view of women expecting payment for having sex with us as a sure sign of their moral transgression and our hatred for them. Yes, in that way they are all hookers and we are all customers. [/QUOTE]Really ET who is saying all women expect payment for having sex, as far as I can make out its only you.

Your thesis on the relationship between childbearing and dependency is flawed in a number of ways.

Firstly, not all women bear children, in fact in developed countries fewer women are having children.

Secondly, more and more women now have the financial resources to take care of themselves when they become pregnant. With maternity leave, flexi time and work from home now an established part of a lot of work environments together with the existence of childcare facilities sometimes within the workplace itself they no longer need to stay home and have men take care of them.

Thirdly it seems you boil down the complexity of relationships to the simple hypothesis that men want sex and women will only provide it if there is a benefit in it for them. ET I got to tell you there is a lot more going on.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2464748]He was not charged with rape for removing the condom. This was the reason:[/QUOTE]That explains why he got 12 years instead of 5. It seems fairly clear from this and other cases that if a woman consents only on the understanding that a condom will be used, removing the condom also removes the consent. Hence, rape is committed.

[QUOTE=*****man;2464859]That explains why he got 12 years instead of 5. It seems fairly clear from this and other cases that if a woman consents only on the understanding that a condom will be used, removing the condom also removes the consent. Hence, rape is committed.[/QUOTE]If it's the woman who removes the condom in order pregnancy-rape the man, the man also gets sentenced. He gets sentenced to life-long child-support.

[QUOTE=XXL;2464879]If it's the woman who removes the condom in order pregnancy-rape the man, the man also gets sentenced. He gets sentenced to life-long child-support.[/QUOTE]This could have happened to me about 20 years ago. During a position change maneuver, she took the condom off while I was unaware. 15 minutes later I realized what happened and she said she did it to feel better. The next week I scheduled a vasectomy.

This was a girl who had 3 prior abortions. Months later we discussed the incident and I said I'm glad she didn't get pregnant so a 4th abortion wasn't needed. That's when she told me that if she got pregnant from me, she would keep the baby. She was fucking me bareback for permanent financial security.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2464834]Really ET who is saying all women expect payment for having sex, as far as I can make out its only you.

Your thesis on the relationship between childbearing and dependency is flawed in a number of ways.

Firstly, not all women bear children, in fact in developed countries fewer women are having children.

Secondly, more and more women now have the financial resources to take care of themselves when they become pregnant. With maternity leave, flexi time and work from home now an established part of a lot of work environments together with the existence of childcare facilities sometimes within the workplace itself they no longer need to stay home and have men take care of them.

Thirdly it seems you boil down the complexity of relationships to the simple hypothesis that men want sex and women will only provide it if there is a benefit in it for them. ET I got to tell you there is a lot more going on.[/QUOTE]I was talking about what is hardwired in our brains over the course of 1000's of generations, not what just became available in terms of birth control or interesting new career options for women in the workforce.

Honestly, Franciscass, I am shocked anyone would need to point that out to you.

And, yeah, ok, I am sure we could find a few women in every community who need to pay men to have sex with them, much less not require payment of any kind whatsoever from a man for sex. wow.

Btw, I am not the only one here saying women expect something in exchange for sex. Goatscrot chimed in with the same point. Not saying payment as in money.

[QUOTE=*****man;2464859]That explains why he got 12 years instead of 5. It seems fairly clear from this and other cases that if a woman consents only on the understanding that a condom will be used, removing the condom also removes the consent. Hence, rape is committed.[/QUOTE]I didn't see anything in that report that suggested he would have been charged with a crime had he not continued to have sex with her despite her resistance and repeated requests for him to stop. Which would have been every bit as much a crime of rape if he had not removed the condom or if she had fully agreed upfront to allow bareback sex.

Removing the condom was irrelevant to his being charged with rape other than that was her reason for resisting and requesting him to stop having sex with her, which could have been for any other reason that popped into her mind or no reason at all.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2464912]Removing the condom was irrelevant to his being charged with rape other than that was her reason for resisting and requesting him to stop having sex with her, which could have been for any other reason that popped into her mind or no reason at all.[/QUOTE]So try [URL]https://edition.cnn.com/2018/12/20/health/stealthing-germany-sexual-assault-scli-intl/index.html[/URL].

Your reluctance to accept that stealthing is plain wrong wouldn't have anything to do with?

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2432100]A couple of guys I know who are also BBFS+CIP only guys take elements of your suggestion even further. They agree to everything the girls say and then simply ignore it:

"Must use condom, ok?"

Of COURSE, I will use a condom. I ALWAYS use a condom. Do you think I'm crazy?

"You have condom?"

Of COURSE, I have a condom.

Then they proceed through all the steps and motions, no condom, CIP and when the girl says, "Did you finish inside?" They just say Oh, Yeah, I Forgot. [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;2464728]From what I've read, and experienced with dozens of Thai ladies, is that many of them care for their family. Many support themselves and their family, mothers, fathers, children, etc, with the funds they obtain through sex work. Without sex work many would be much worse off financially..[/QUOTE]You're totally true! But you know, even when you take care these ladies, even if you send them every month big money, they totally don't care and go fuck with other men! It's very easy for a Thai lady to say she's a victim and she doesn't like fuck with farangs and each time she says she does that for money to take care her family because her family is poor! I don't say it wrong!

But you can't imagine, how many times, I saw good boyfriends, even me who wanted to save these ladies, who loved them so much that they gave her big money. Some men even bought them condos, motorbike and car and even sent them money.

And these men were OK they work with a normal job.

I know a man who love her lady so much, that the deal between them was he takes care her every month with good money, pay the condo and she has to take a normal job to earn her salary too.

And you know what? The lady say YES of course. But she didn't want to work anywhere, she didn't want to have a normal job! She was lazy and preferred to sleep all day and go party with her girlfriends. And to finish, she was going to fuck with many other men!

Most of these working girls don't want normal job, and don't work. For them work is give their pussy and they're very happy to do it!

[QUOTE=GettingFedUp;2464934]So try [URL]https://edition.cnn.com/2018/12/20/health/stealthing-germany-sexual-assault-scli-intl/index.html[/URL].

Your reluctance to accept that stealthing is plain wrong wouldn't have anything to do with?[/QUOTE]Yes, that one case in Germany has been mentioned. But he wasn't charged and convicted of rape for stealthing and the final outcome of his sexual assault conviction has yet to be determined since he is appealing it to two higher courts in Germany.

Where did you get that I was reluctant to accept that stealthing is plain wrong? I only said I did not believe the law recognizes it as rape or sexual assault. Now there is one known case still in contention of a conviction of sexual assault for it while how to write such laws is still under consideration. There is certainly no such law on the books in Thailand that I know of.

I hear all the bars are open and the international tourist has to go through a 14 day quarantine. So my question is (here in the Bangkok Forum), how are the go go bars now? What's Nana like? Soi Cowboy like? Anyone on the ground working the scene? What's it like inside the Go Go Bars? Is take out on the menu?

I would assume being a Bangkok or Pattaya expat would be pretty sweet w little competition.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2464908]I was talking about what is hardwired in our brains over the course of 1000's of generations, not what just became available in terms of birth control or interesting new career options for women in the workforce.

Honestly, Franciscass, I am shocked anyone would need to point that out to you.

And, yeah, ok, I am sure we could find a few women in every community who need to pay men to have sex with them, much less not require payment of any kind whatsoever from a man for sex. wow.

Btw, I am not the only one here saying women expect something in exchange for sex. Goatscrot chimed in with the same point. Not saying payment as in money.[/QUOTE]I guess ET we could go backwards and forwards forever on this but go nowhere. You say all women are hookers. I disagree. You can have the last word I'm done.

[QUOTE=Socker;2465007]
I would assume being a Bangkok or Pattaya expat would be pretty sweet w little competition.[/QUOTE]And besides I suspect that all the members of the Thai government are expatriates who do not want competition.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2464789]................. Yes, in that way they are all hookers and we are all customers. Sorry............Even my mother understood and accepted this reality, as all mothers would.[/QUOTE]Women have sex with men for one of three reasons. Either the guy is good looking, is a good talker (seducer) or he is rich. In the latter case it is obviously sex for money and for the women he is the best marriage prospect of the three.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2465153]Women have sex with men for one of three reasons. Either the guy is good looking, is a good talker (seducer) or he is rich. In the latter case it is obviously sex for money and for the women he is the best marriage prospect of the three.[/QUOTE]Even with the irresistable, good looking, good talker guy, there is only a tiny percentage of women who would drop panties, fuck and move on with no strings atrached the way a man easily could and would with 1,000's of women if he had the opportunity.

The rest will expect "payment" of some form in exchange for the sex even with that guy; sincerety, attention, a return call, something. Doesn't mean they'll get it. But those who don't will probably feel some degree, however minor, of regret, resentment, something, knowing that they gave away something of notably more value than he gave away and for nothing. It is in the hardwiring of the human female brain.

Even if the risk of pregnancy is near zero thanks to modern science, the female is still assuming much greater risk of disease than the man because she is the receiver of fluids where he is not. And she is certainly going to be aware of that risk with the attractive guy on her (likely accurate) assumption that he has had many other sexual partners before her.

[QUOTE=Socker;2465007]I hear all the bars are open and the international tourist has to go through a 14 day quarantine. So my question is (here in the Bangkok Forum), how are the go go bars now? What's Nana like? Soi Cowboy like? Anyone on the ground working the scene? What's it like inside the Go Go Bars? Is take out on the menu?

I would assume being a Bangkok or Pattaya expat would be pretty sweet w little competition.[/QUOTE]I looked into a few, stopped in 2 go-go bars in Nana Plaza for a drink last week and wrote a report about it. I haven't been back in one since, just passed by the area. But I can't see any reason there would be a difference this week.

My general impression was no different than being in a Bangkok go-go bar during normal times except for fewer customers.

I meant to return for another look this week and barfine someone. But got booked up pretty good with a new Thermae girl repeat, some dating site girls and a couple of my regular non P4P girlfriends. Nothing so unusual about that either though.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2465194]I looked into a few, stopped in 2 go-go bars in Nana Plaza for a drink last week and wrote a report about it. I haven't been back in one since, just passed by the area. But I can't see any reason there would be a difference this week.

My general impression was no different than being in a Bangkok go-go bar during normal times except for fewer customers.

I meant to return for another look this week and barfine someone. But got booked up pretty good with a new Thermae girl repeat, some dating site girls and a couple of my regular non P4P girlfriends. Nothing so unusual about that either though.[/QUOTE]Well thanks for the intel, it sounds great. Life is close to normal in some locales. Not so in the USA. I hope they do away w the Thai quarantine in the next few months.

Cheers and happy hunting.

[QUOTE=Socker;2465007]I hear all the bars are open and the international tourist has to go through a 14 day quarantine. [/QUOTE]Where did you hear that you can get back in to Thailand on a 14 day quarantine? I'd book a flight tomorrow if that were the case.

No Brainer for me to do 14 days quarantine there. Girls would be lining up to see me in my room. They'd bring me good food too.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2465262]Where did you hear that you can get back in to Thailand on a 14 day quarantine? I'd book a flight tomorrow if that were the case.

No Brainer for me to do 14 days quarantine there. Girls would be lining up to see me in my room. They'd bring me good food too.[/QUOTE]I think you know already but there is currently 7-11 items required being thrown around by the government then there is the dispute as to which country in the bubble they want to allow into Thailand. The 14 day quarantine is near the bottom of the list after you jump through the near-impossible long list they want.

[QUOTE=Socker;2465007]I hear all the bars are open and the international tourist has to go through a 14 day quarantine.[/QUOTE]Socker,

You seem to have been listening to Chinese whispers regarding international tourists. There has been a little expansion in who may enter Thailand from the previous "Thai citizens for repatriation only". However, it really is limited.

- Medical tourists and their carers who must undergo 14 days quarantine at the hospital. At the end of quarantine and treatment they are allowed to travel around Thailand.

- Foreign spouses of Thai citizens who hold a marriage visa who must undergo 14 days quarantine at an Alternative State Quarantine (ASQ) hotel facility. The list I saw a few weeks ago had costs ranging from THB 50,000 to 150,000. It should be noted that they take quarantine seriously here. I have not seen details on ASQ but the Thai citizens are confined to their room and their meals are brought to them by staff in full PPE. It is not the self isolation and be a good boy routine that some countries have adopted.

- Work permit holders and Permanent Residence holders who also have to undergo 14 days ASQ. Permanent Residence is not a matter of where you live full time, but an immigration status for which there are a whole load of hoops to go through.

- Business / Investor visitors. These do not have to do quarantine, but are restricted to a strict itinerary, not permitted to use public transport and not allowed to visit anywhere not on their itinerary.

Still excluded are Thai Elite Visa holders, Retirement Visa (or Extension of Stay based on retirement) holders, Long Stay (OX). Tourist Visas and Visa Waivers are likely to be a long way down the pecking order as things ease.

There is occasional politicians puff about travel bubbles but realistically very few places likely to be viewed as "safe" origins and those that are may choose to open up to other countries which Thailand would not find acceptable and so the bubble doesn't happen.

Finally, predicting when any easing is likely is impossible here. This is both because the situation in other countries is still evolving and when things do change here it's always at the very last minute. As an example the current visa amnesty put in place for those "trapped" here expires at the end of the month. That leaves a lot of folks here on 1 year tourist visas which require re-entry every 90 days (so called visa runs) uncertain what happens on 1 August. As it stands they would have to do a visa run in August but will not be allowed back in. When will they know? If it is a week before the end of July that the decision is finalised that would be very early for Thailand's bureaucrats.

[QUOTE=GettingFedUp;2465294]Still excluded are Thai Elite Visa holders, [/QUOTE]Feel sorry for those who dished out between 500,000 to 2,000,000 baht ($16 k to $64 k US) for a 5 year Thai Elite Visa and it's pretty much useless for as long as Thailand denies entry in to their country, which for Americans could be a year or three.

[QUOTE=Socker;2465007]I would assume being a Bangkok or Pattaya expat would be pretty sweet w little competition.[/QUOTE]Even at the height of the tourist seasons in better years, there was no competition of note for the charms of our sweethearts-for-rent. The amount of working ladies has always outstripped demand.

[QUOTE=GettingFedUp;2465294]You seem to have been listening to Chinese whispers regarding international tourists. There has been a little expansion in who may enter Thailand from the previous "Thai citizens for repatriation only". However, it really is limited.[/QUOTE]That's a good summation.

One point I would add is to not believe anything is certain until it's been posted in the Royal Gazette. There have been many cases over the past few months where changes have been announced by a government official, from the cabinet or CCSA only for it not to be approved. Recommendations and decisions have been made public only to be reversed at the last minute. Complicating that is that provincial governors have the ability to add greater restrictions than set for the nation.

[QUOTE=Downandup;2465372]That's a good summation.

One point I would add is to not believe anything is certain until it's been posted in the Royal Gazette. There have been many cases over the past few months where changes have been announced by a government official, from the cabinet or CCSA only for it not to be approved. Recommendations and decisions have been made public only to be reversed at the last minute. Complicating that is that provincial governors have the ability to add greater restrictions than set for the nation.[/QUOTE]We should not underestimate the pressure that will come from a situation where other countries are opening up to tourists. The uniforms may feel, they have absolute discretion to control but with the economy tanking and millions out of work it's more than possible that this overly cautious approach will be relaxed quicker than we currently anticipate.

[QUOTE=Wolvenvacht;2465352]Even at the height of the tourist seasons in better years, there was no competition of note for the charms of our sweethearts-for-rent. The amount of working ladies has always outstripped demand.[/QUOTE]But the quality has plummeted into the depths.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2465192]Even with the irresistable, good looking, good talker guy, there is only a tiny percentage of women who would drop panties, fuck and move on with no strings atrached the way a man easily could and would with 1,000's of women if he had the opportunity.

The rest will expect "payment" of some form in exchange for the sex even with that guy; sincerety, attention, a return call, something. Doesn't mean they'll get it. But those who don't will probably feel some degree, however minor, of regret, resentment, something, knowing that they gave away something of notably more value than he gave away and for nothing. It is in the hardwiring of the human female brain.

Even if the risk of pregnancy is near zero thanks to modern science, the female is still assuming much greater risk of disease than the man because she is the receiver of fluids where he is not. And she is certainly going to be aware of that risk with the attractive guy on her (likely accurate) assumption that he has had many other sexual partners before her.[/QUOTE]I beg to disagree, in my younger days I had a slew of male acquaintances who were good looking and suave and they competed among themselves to see who could bang the most women. They used to bang many girls for no payment at all picking them up at discos and clubs. Not everyone can do this and I understand if you don't believe it.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2464789] Yes, in that way they are all hookers and we are all customers. Sorry..[/QUOTE]If you want to get philosophical, I propose we're all hookers in some way. I'm whoring my time, health, and stress for money, med students working girl their youth for a big paycheck when they get older, etc.

[QUOTE=Berrys66;2465437]But the quality has plummeted into the depths.[/QUOTE]Quality and quantity has taken a Nose dive.

I remember not long ago Rainbow 4 having EZ 150 girls on weekdays and much more on weekends.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2465441]I beg to disagree, in my younger days I had a slew of male acquaintances who were good looking and suave and they competed among themselves to see who could bang the most women. They used to bang many girls for no payment at all picking them up at discos and clubs. Not everyone can do this and I understand if you don't believe it.[/QUOTE]I was never talking about payment of only money. That was another poster's characterization of it, not mine.

I have not met a womanizing playboy who can find a money-free fuck with a new girl almost any hour of the day who is not still required to jump through some kind of hoop or two before, during or after a fuck by either assuring the girl she is "special" or being pestered to call or see her again afterwards. That alone is a form of emotional "payment" in that it helps to settle the girl's mind that if something goes wrong and she gets pregnant or there is any other unpleasant surprise afterwards that he will at least not forget he'd ever met her and totally disappear from the scene.

That is a need for at least some minimal assurance of security and protection from the man that is hardwired in a human female"s brain for practical survival of the species reasons.

There is no human male counterpart to that need. It would never for 1 second cross our mind to need any assurance of that kind before accepting an invitation to fuck a woman.

Of course, that doesn't mean the man will do a damn thing about it if something unplanned or unpleasant comes along as the result of fucking her. Just that it is a normal, natural consideration in the head of a female to want the assurance. I suppose the only counterpart for a human male is the inclination (also hardwired in our brain) to help or rescue a damsel in distress. That is a normal, natural consideration in the head of a man.

And, no, I'm not talking about some 0.1% instance in all of humanity of a nameless, faceless orgy of 100 girls lined up facing a wall and taking it doggie style by 1,000 unidentified men suddenly breaking out on a Saturday night in a Pittsburgh bar that someone witnessed or participated in once or twenty times. I'm sure that happens, too. I'm talking about the vast majority of sexual encounters by everyone else on the planet.

[QUOTE=MissionAsia;2465462]If you want to get philosophical, I propose we're all hookers in some way. I'm whoring my time, health, and stress for money, med students working girl their youth for a big paycheck when they get older, etc.[/QUOTE]Now, imagine how much easier it would be to figure out how to pull yourself out of a pit of debt on those issues if you had been born with a vagina instead of a penis 😁

[QUOTE=Wolvenvacht;2465352]Even at the height of the tourist seasons in better years, there was no competition of note for the charms of our sweethearts-for-rent. The amount of working ladies has always outstripped demand.[/QUOTE]There is "no competition" in a sense that it's easy to find an available time slot with any of the working girls if you were willing to pay her asking price. However, even moderately attractive working girls are rare these days (unless you have a fetish for tattoos, fake noses and monster eyebrows).

Supply / demand ratio has fallen sharply over the years. These days, any average looking girl can pull 2-4ST customers each day, so much that most avoid LT. Thinking about it, average girls are now stunners, most working girls are dregs. About 10 years ago, supply outstripped demand so much that plenty of decent girls were doing no more than 3-4 customers per [I]week[/I], and they'd jump at an offer of 1 k baht ST or 2 k LT. Going on a multi-day holiday at 1 k / day used to be a bingo for many girls, whereas these days it would lose them money.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;2465549]There is "no competition" in a sense that it's easy to find an available time slot with any of the working girls if you were willing to pay her asking price. However, even moderately attractive working girls are rare these days (unless you have a fetish for tattoos, fake noses and monster eyebrows).

Supply / demand ratio has fallen sharply over the years. These days, any average looking girl can pull 2-4ST customers each day, so much that most avoid LT. Thinking about it, average girls are now stunners, most working girls are dregs. About 10 years ago, supply outstripped demand so much that plenty of decent girls were doing no more than 3-4 customers per [I]week[/I], and they'd jump at an offer of 1 k baht ST or 2 k LT. Going on a multi-day holiday at 1 k / day used to be a bingo for many girls, whereas these days it would lose them money.[/QUOTE]Spot on. And 20 years ago the ratio was staggering. There were far fewer punters. Just local farang, local Japanese, and the farang visitors. And the Japanese and the farang fished in different ponds. As more and more punters from countries closer to Thailand came, prices increased and quality decreased.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2465262]Where did you hear that you can get back in to Thailand on a 14 day quarantine? I'd book a flight tomorrow if that were the case.

No Brainer for me to do 14 days quarantine there. Girls would be lining up to see me in my room. They'd bring me good food too.[/QUOTE]I tried to find the article on The Thaiger but couldn't find it. I thought international flights were being allowed in Thailand again. The article stated a medical reason would allow entry including a 14 day quarantine but it seems I was reading what I wanted to see and not what was printed in the article. Sorry about that. LOL.

[QUOTE=Wolvenvacht;2465352]Even at the height of the tourist seasons in better years, there was no competition of note for the charms of our sweethearts-for-rent. The amount of working ladies has always outstripped demand.[/QUOTE]That's what they are (in most cases), sweethearts for rent. Before this virus Bangkok and Pattaya seemed to be in high season no matter what time of year it was. After a while you get used to the massive amounts of sausage all around. Sausage crowds don't bother me like they used to because I can still find that special dancer and get my fill. Hopefully nothing will ever happen to the pussy pipeline in Asia. Cheers.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2465572]Spot on. And 20 years ago the ratio was staggering. There were far fewer punters. Just local farang, local Japanese, and the farang visitors. And the Japanese and the farang fished in different ponds. As more and more punters from countries closer to Thailand came, prices increased and quality decreased.[/QUOTE]The good old days! How I miss the good old days of 2020 when I was still allowed to enter Thailand!

Bad timing on my part to decide to live in Korea and Japan instead. Oh well, can think of worst places to live than Shinjuku, Dotonbori, and Myeongdong.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;2465549]There is "no competition" in a sense that it's easy to find an available time slot with any of the working girls if you were willing to pay her asking price. However, even moderately attractive working girls are rare these days (unless you have a fetish for tattoos, fake noses and monster eyebrows).

Supply / demand ratio has fallen sharply over the years. These days, any average looking girl can pull 2-4ST customers each day, so much that most avoid LT. Thinking about it, average girls are now stunners, most working girls are dregs. About 10 years ago, supply outstripped demand so much that plenty of decent girls were doing no more than 3-4 customers per [I]week[/I], and they'd jump at an offer of 1 k baht ST or 2 k LT. Going on a multi-day holiday at 1 k / day used to be a bingo for many girls, whereas these days it would lose them money.[/QUOTE]I wasn't here 10 years ago because I had taken about a 20 year hiatus from traveling to Asia up until about 8 years ago. But I can believe everything you and others have said about those times. The change for the worse must have also come about due to a much improved Thai and other Asian economies compared to the prior 15 years or so, which also enabled the greater influx of non Western punters in the most often mentioned tourist areas.

Maybe we will see a return to that dynamic once the reality of today's economic conditions really sets in and shakes out all vestiges of the mindset that was able to thrive over the past 10 years or so.

I saw a lot of new young faces in the couple of go-go bars I have visted so far since they reopened. But I have not yet had the free time to check out the attitudes in the privacy of my apartment. Hopefully, soon.

But in terms of the level of looks in the newly reopened go-go bars, I would say those new young faces and bodies fall into the usual tiered breakdown; 10% snooty, aloof lookers, top tier for the particular venue, 20% second tier aspiring to take business away from the top and more willing to do whatever it takes to do so (my favorite tier for that reason), 20% acceptably fuckable if you are willing to forgive more apparent to all flaws and the rest falling much more predictably in the "needs to accept even 1,000 for no discussion BBFS+CIP" tier category.

I have seen a lot more new young faces among the girls on the street lately, too.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;2465549]There is "no competition" in a sense that it's easy to find an available time slot with any of the working girls if you were willing to pay her asking price. However, even moderately attractive working girls are rare these days (unless you have a fetish for tattoos, fake noses and monster eyebrows).

Supply / demand ratio has fallen sharply over the years. These days, any average looking girl can pull 2-4ST customers each day, so much that most avoid LT. Thinking about it, average girls are now stunners, most working girls are dregs. About 10 years ago, supply outstripped demand so much that plenty of decent girls were doing no more than 3-4 customers per [I]week[/I], and they'd jump at an offer of 1 k baht ST or 2 k LT. Going on a multi-day holiday at 1 k / day used to be a bingo for many girls, whereas these days it would lose them money.[/QUOTE]I think these bad old days have already passed on, and whether mass tourism comes back or not (My take is NO because I read medical research papers, not the MSM) so this, and the Greatest Depression, and possible top tier warfare in the Pacific will end it for our lifetimes, if you're 40 or over).

So by this time next year, if not as soon as they realize there will be NO season at all in 2020, whether they open borders or not, we're going to see the "good old days" back, unless the little green men fuck things up even more than they have since 2013.

But that "good news" prediction aside. Has anyone come down from the provinces since July 1, and what hotels are open, and do they still allow GFE like before? Is the Beer Garden open?

I haven't paid bar-fines in 20 years and I'm not starting now.

What else is open and rocking freelancers?

I've seen recent YT videos of the strip near Raumchok Plaza / Thermae has SW, are any "nice" bars or pubs allowing freelancers since the world changed forever?

I'll be in town from the 20th for a week maybe two.

Happy to buy anyone a beer if they would like to meet for a quick chat.

Thanks.

I was walking on Soi 33 today. After my Akane massage, other the girls insisted I come in and look. I popped in DreamHeaven. Guess its 1800 but when I walked out they said "OK 1500". So looks like promos and deals are to be had, and I'm one to take advantage of them!

Anyone else noticed any promos?

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2465516]I was never talking about payment of only money. That was another poster's characterization of it, not mine.

I have not met a womanizing playboy who can find a money-free fuck with a new girl almost any hour of the day who is not still required to jump through some kind of hoop or two before, during or after a fuck by either assuring the girl she is "special" or being pestered to call or see her again afterwards. That alone is a form of emotional "payment"..............[/QUOTE]In the mind of a player what you call emotional "payment" is no payment at all; its all part of the enjoyment. Some guys (not me) enjoy the chase and all the psychological complexities that go with it as much as the deed itself.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2465757]In the mind of a player what you call emotional "payment" is no payment at all; its all part of the enjoyment. Some guys (not me) enjoy the chase and all the psychological complexities that go with it as much as the deed itself.[/QUOTE]I don't mind doing it and enjoy it most when I genuinely mean it. But it is still something men "pay" in exchange for sex with women whether we enjoy paying it or not.

When we don't feel like being bothered with that particular kind of "payment" in exchange for sex, we walk into a brothel and plunk down the cash instead.

It seems oddly curious to me that there is any resistance to understanding and accepting these basic truths about men and women on a site like this one, of all places.

I mean, it's kind of central to why this hobby has existed all along.

Star of Light, the infamous BJ bar has reopened. They have a new location, still on Patpong Soi 2, but a few doors up form the old place, closer to Surawong Road. As an aside, Patpong Soi 1 is nearly dead (on a Saturday night no less), while Soi 2 is somehow limping along.

They increased prices to 800 baht (from 700) for a BJ and to 1200 (from 1000) for full service. The good old "increase prices when demand is down" Thai trick. Now they're the same as any other BJ bar, and while still OK for a BJ, I surely won't be tempted by full service given that you can get a freelancer for a full hour for less.

The new location is brighter and cleaner, so that's good. It has a partition behind a heavy curtain for the BJ, and they no longer offer service out in the open in the bar. Good for privacy, but every place has that; doing it out in public and occasionally watching a few knobs being polished was the main, unique selling point. They seem to be scared of police now, I was told to keep my shirt on. Hoping this is temporary and that they'll be more relaxed in the future.

There were 4 girls and the service was nice, with one of my old favorites.

While I understand both the higher prices and the precautions, understanding doesn't make me horny or eager to visit again soon.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;2465869]Star of Light, the infamous BJ bar has reopened. They have a new location, still on Patpong Soi 2, but a few doors up form the old place, closer to Surawong Road. As an aside, Patpong Soi 1 is nearly dead (on a Saturday night no less), while Soi 2 is somehow limping along.

They increased prices to 800 baht (from 700) for a BJ and to 1200 (from 1000) for full service. The good old "increase prices when demand is down" Thai trick. Now they're the same as any other BJ bar, and while still OK for a BJ, I surely won't be tempted by full service given that you can get a freelancer for a full hour for less.

The new location is brighter and cleaner, so that's good. It has a partition behind a heavy curtain for the BJ, and they no longer offer service out in the open in the bar. Good for privacy, but every place has that; doing it out in public and occasionally watching a few knobs being polished was the main, unique selling point. They seem to be scared of police now, I was told to keep my shirt on. Hoping this is temporary and that they'll be more relaxed in the future.

There were 4 girls and the service was nice, with one of my old favorites.

While I understand both the higher prices and the precautions, understanding doesn't make me horny or eager to visit again soon.[/QUOTE]Ohh my god sweet memories at SoL.

That old place in the corner was iconic.

Good to know that they have not closed down. Just moved.

Went into Thermae last night about 10:30. There were a total of 7 guys and about 30 or so gals. We were the only two non-Asian guys. Stayed about 20 min. During that time a few small groups of Asian guys wandered in. There was never more than 12 guys in the bar at any one time. Saw one gal get pulled. Some lookers but many still obviously not interested in the white man, even though their prospects overall were slim. Lower Suk is dire without tourists. Many if not most of these businesses are not going to survive. Some groups of older women trying to ply their wears on the street as well. You get the feeling they are doing this out of desperation. It's a very sad and depressing sight. Only ray of light was the new beer bar complex on Soi 7. Seem to be some punters and some happy gals.

Many girls have told me this. Japanese guys are. Most polite is why they have favoured status. The fact they pay well is secondary.

With Japs it's go with the flow. No need for diagrams and contracts on what will be done, how long it will take.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2465998]...Only ray of light was the new beer bar complex on Soi 7. Seem to be some punters and some happy gals.[/QUOTE]I was there Friday night. Yes, the place was hopping at around 9pm but dropped back noticeably after 10pm or so that night when the expats went home (presumably). Very lively bars with demonstrably appreciative girls. Pretty much the only place I have been since the bars reopened where the girls seemed to really give a shit that they could start making money again if they behaved like they were at least happy to see a potential customer walking through.

I was with a date and did not barfine anyone. But we sat and enjoyed having drinks with a couple of other girls there. One was a former Butterflies go-go dancer on the fence about returning to the go-go bar scene.

I had only barfined one girl from that location before the shutdown, from one of the bars directly on Soi 7 before you get to Beer Garden. Had a good time. But lots of territorial jealousy and drama ensued immediately afterwards on her part so I have not repeated. Thought she might throw a barstool at us when my Friday night date and I walked by. Lol

As I alluded to, the girls there are more demonstrably pro active and emotional than most other venues around town.

Btw, at the 9pm hour we popped our heads into Beer Garden and there were only 4-5 ladies sitting in there and about as many customers.

[QUOTE=DannyDuck;2466010]Many girls have told me this. Japanese guys are. Most polite is why they have favoured status. The fact they pay well is secondary.

With Japs it's go with the flow. No need for diagrams and contracts on what will be done, how long it will take.[/QUOTE]Yes, they take what is offered and don't ask for more. They are easy customers. It's kind of ruined it for the rest of us.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2465773]I don't mind doing it and enjoy it most when I genuinely mean it. But it is still something men "pay" in exchange for sex with women whether we enjoy paying it or not.

When we don't feel like being bothered with that particular kind of "payment" in exchange for sex, we walk into a brothel and plunk down the cash instead.

It seems oddly curious to me that there is any resistance to understanding and accepting these basic truths about men and women on a site like this one, of all places.

I mean, it's kind of central to why this hobby has existed all along.[/QUOTE]It appears that for you the entire world is a mongering world. You are resisting the thought that there are other types of men out there. Even though one is on this site one could be aware that the majority of men do not partake in our hobby and there are even more men out there who get sex for no payment at all. They are good looking and glib and girls throw themselves at them. Having never experienced that does not mean it never happens.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2466115]It appears that for you the entire world is a mongering world. You are resisting the thought that there are other types of men out there. Even though one is on this site one could be aware that the majority of men do not partake in our hobby and there are even more men out there who get sex for no payment at all. They are good looking and glib and girls throw themselves at them. Having never experienced that does not mean it never happens.[/QUOTE]Yep, you got me. I should never have said 100% of the women of the world demand cash paid directly to them for sex and 100% of the men of the world pay cash directly to them for sex, no exceptions.

My bad. Man, I sure wish I could go back and delete that post of mine where I said that.

And, you're right. I probably had that all wrong because I have only had sex with a woman after promising to give her at least $100 in hard cash for it.

Happy?

[QUOTE=Turgid;2466115]...and there are even more men out there who get sex for no payment at all. They are good looking and glib and girls throw themselves at them. [/QUOTE]I used to work with one of those men. We would do frequent business travel together and he insisted on selecting the bar/restaurant for dinner every night. We might look in a few places before he found his prey. More than half the evenings he would get a date with a girl from that evening. A couple of times he would bring the girl to breakfast the next morning at our hotel. He has the magic. Within a day or two we would be gone and he would do it again on our next business trip.

[QUOTE=HorseTrader;2466130]I used to work with one of those men. We would do frequent business travel together and he insisted on selecting the bar/restaurant for dinner every night. We might look in a few places before he found his prey. More than half the evenings he would get a date with a girl from that evening. A couple of times he would bring the girl to breakfast the next morning at our hotel. He has the magic. Within a day or two we would be gone and he would do it again on our next business trip.[/QUOTE]That would describe about 20% of the guys I knew since college and all through my working life. Some would tell the girls outrageous whoppers to convince them they had a real shot at a lifetime of committed or marital bliss and security for hopping into bed with them asap, that they were model agents, casting directors and they saw something very special about them, whatever it took. Others were so good looking and/or funny the status of being chosen by them for sex was irresistible to the ladies.

Some of those guys tell me they would trade their life in the states today for mine in Thailand in a heartbeat. Especially these days. But I did marvel at how good they were at bedding down the girls by playing on their hopes and dreams or impressing them with their looks and/or charms back in the day.

Just asking?

I know anything is possible for the right amount and I'm sure they won't go with you until they're off shift, right?

I know I am dreaming, probably too optimistic about the business acumen of a bunch of business owners who generally have little, but if there was ever a time for loyalty marketing this is it in thailand. From the BJ bar to the gogo, to any and every business feeling the pain of the tourism downfall. In a previous life I was the head database analyst for loyalty marketing for MGM Mirage in vegas and this situation is prime for making sure you can maximize your customer relationships and loyalty. Just in this example even if they felt they HAD to raise prices now that they got you in the door you should have never been allowed to walk out with either a return special offer, or at very least a line contact to do so later. In normal times you could argue there is less need since it's all 1 week millionaires, but you absolutely know now that isn't happening for probably the next 6 months. Even Macao casinos had VIP clubs were memberships were free ore relatively inexpensive. Familia Nobre's for example was sometimes free or wasn't much more than 1000 thb. For that you got 1 extra 15 minute massage service when you took a girl, a little discount on the girl, and 50% off if you took another in the same night. That's simple math to A. Keep you coming back, and be. Keep you spending. Some places do a light job on their social media platforms but there is so much more opportunity being lost.

Anyway, sorry for the rant. Just frustrating to be stuck in coronaville USA, bored as shit at work, and seeing opportunities not taken. If anyone knows a shop / bar owner who would be interested I would work with them for free just for the entertainment. Hope you lucky bastards stuck in country are enjoying yourselves.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;2465869]Star of Light, the infamous BJ bar has reopened. They have a new location, still on Patpong Soi 2, but a few doors up form the old place, closer to Surawong Road. As an aside, Patpong Soi 1 is nearly dead (on a Saturday night no less), while Soi 2 is somehow limping along.

They increased prices to 800 baht (from 700) for a BJ and to 1200 (from 1000) for full service. The good old "increase prices when demand is down" Thai trick. Now they're the same as any other BJ bar, and while still OK for a BJ, I surely won't be tempted by full service given that you can get a freelancer for a full hour for less.

The new location is brighter and cleaner, so that's good. It has a partition behind a heavy curtain for the BJ, and they no longer offer service out in the open in the bar. Good for privacy, but every place has that; doing it out in public and occasionally watching a few knobs being polished was the main, unique selling point. They seem to be scared of police now, I was told to keep my shirt on. Hoping this is temporary and that they'll be more relaxed in the future.

There were 4 girls and the service was nice, with one of my old favorites.

While I understand both the higher prices and the precautions, understanding doesn't make me horny or eager to visit again soon.[/QUOTE]

Apparently yes.

[QUOTE=BackpackBrian;2466238]Just asking?

I know anything is possible for the right amount and I'm sure they won't go with you until they're off shift, right?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;2465869]Star of Light, the infamous BJ bar has reopened. They have a new location, still on Patpong Soi 2, but a few doors up form the old place, closer to Surawong Road. As an aside, Patpong Soi 1 is nearly dead (on a Saturday night no less), while Soi 2 is somehow limping along.

They increased prices to 800 baht (from 700) for a BJ and to 1200 (from 1000) for full service. The good old "increase prices when demand is down" Thai trick. Now they're the same as any other BJ bar, and while still OK for a BJ, I surely won't be tempted by full service given that you can get a freelancer for a full hour for less.

The new location is brighter and cleaner, so that's good. It has a partition behind a heavy curtain for the BJ, and they no longer offer service out in the open in the bar. Good for privacy, but every place has that; doing it out in public and occasionally watching a few knobs being polished was the main, unique selling point. They seem to be scared of police now, I was told to keep my shirt on. Hoping this is temporary and that they'll be more relaxed in the future.
[/QUOTE]Today was my first visit to SOL. When did the price increase happen? 700 B is a steal, 800 B is still quite reasonable. You probably touched on why the price had to go up: new place and new higher rent. Anyway, service was great with Ms Nan, happy to pay the 800. Way better than the same price at Lolitas. I'd prefer a "private" upstairs room, although they told me the dog was quite keen to watch my session. Go figure.

To the guy who wants to reward loyalty: a little 4-person BJ bar isn't going to understand anything like that. A bigger spot, especially a GoGo, I'd hope they would be smarter. A few days ago at Akane, I got my "punchcard" for my sessions. In the past it was buy ten get one free. Since they raised their prices, they informed me I would get the free, but would have to pay cash on the price difference! Thanks for my loyalty!

[QUOTE=MichaelSamuel;2466292]if there was ever a time for loyalty marketing this is it in thailand[/QUOTE]

Interesting perspective. Indeed, for a business owner chasing after the small (and picky) expat market, offering loyalty promotions is a good idea at this time. They aren't getting much business from random folks wandering around, that's for sure. Unfortunately, I doubt many people in Thai nightlife industry think that way, they're used to completely different market conditions, and not exactly nimble or innovative.

Star of Light had great service as usual, decent new premises, all is just fine, and I'll be back eventually, but don't feel any urgency to do so anytime soon.

[QUOTE=Balimassage;2466470]You probably touched on why the price had to go up: new place and new higher rent. [/QUOTE]

New place has lower rent, that's why they moved. Old one was asking 50k/mo, new one 30k/mo. That's still a lot of blowjobs just to make rent, especially given the dreadful footfall at a time like this. Price increase is due to fewer customers.

While 100-200 baht isn't huge, with the 800 baht BJ price, I'm afraid they hit the psychological boundary of 1000 baht (when I add the 100 baht drink and a 100 baht tip I always give). At 700 (plus a tip), it's just a quick BJ on a whim, but at 1000, I'm considering if I really need to blow that money on what's 20 min of good fun, but still just the same BJ like I had 50 times before.

Humor gets lost when my pic upload didn't work.

[QUOTE=MichaelSamuel;2466452]Apparently yes.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=MichaelSamuel;2466523]Humor gets lost when my pic upload didn't work.[/QUOTE]So I have to buy 5 girls to get a free plate of wings and a couple of beers? Doesn't seem to be good value to me. 😉 😁.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;2466489]Interesting perspective. Indeed, for a business owner chasing after the small (and picky) expat market, offering loyalty promotions is a good idea at this time. They aren't getting much business from random folks wandering around, that's for sure. Unfortunately, I doubt many people in Thai nightlife industry think that way, they're used to completely different market conditions, and not exactly nimble or innovative.

Star of Light had great service as usual, decent new premises, all is just fine, and I'll be back eventually, but don't feel any urgency to do so anytime soon.



New place has lower rent, that's why they moved. Old one was asking 50k/mo, new one 30k/mo. That's still a lot of blowjobs just to make rent, especially given the dreadful footfall at a time like this. Price increase is due to fewer customers..[/QUOTE]Price matters.

[QUOTE=Balimassage;2466470]Today was my first visit to SOL. When did the price increase happen? 700 B is a steal, 800 B is still quite reasonable. You probably touched on why the price had to go up: new place and new higher rent. Anyway, service was great with Ms Nan, happy to pay the 800. Way better than the same price at Lolitas. I'd prefer a "private" upstairs room, although they told me the dog was quite keen to watch my session. Go figure.

To the guy who wants to reward loyalty: a little 4-person BJ bar isn't going to understand anything like that. A bigger spot, especially a GoGo, I'd hope they would be smarter. A few days ago at Akane, I got my "punchcard" for my sessions. In the past it was buy ten get one free. Since they raised their prices, they informed me I would get the free, but would have to pay cash on the price difference! Thanks for my loyalty![/QUOTE]Wow they want you to pay the difference on the price of the punchcard. That takes the cake.

[QUOTE=JohnGault;2466660]Wow they want you to pay the difference on the price of the punchcard. That takes the cake.[/QUOTE]I agree. I have a 10 punch card for a fish restaurant take out in my home country. So if it was $10 for fish and chips last week and they raise the price to $12 this week, then they would ask me for the extra $2 with my filled punch card? How totally Thai! Don't think that I would ever return.

No, you can't officially bar fine them like we can do in gogo bars. But, if you show your charm and magic, you can still get one with you, I succeeded once last December.

[QUOTE=BackpackBrian;2466238]Just asking?

I know anything is possible for the right amount and I'm sure they won't go with you until they're off shift, right?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=JohnGault;2466660]Wow they want you to pay the difference on the price of the punchcard. That takes the cake.[/QUOTE]That was my take of the conversation but it was only in passing. I'll have to see where I'm at in the progression but I must be close. I think they also used to let you get your freebie and pay the upgrade to a 2-girl for instance so maybe that's what they meant. That is called wishful thinking and being Thailand, and them having raised the price, I would be surprised if I get my wish. Hopefully I'm within a punch or two now to finally cash in my "10% off".

[QUOTE=BackpackBrian;2466238]Just asking?

I know anything is possible for the right amount and I'm sure they won't go with you until they're off shift, right?[/QUOTE]Treat hooters girls like McD girls or check out girls. Just date them. I don't want to get into a barfines debate. But I just stopped after my cherry visit about 20 years ago. These are desperate times, almost any working class girl with a pulse will consider a cheap date if you have better teeth than Boris Johnson and smell clean. Enjoy the upside, the longer the economy drags it's balls, the happier I'll be, and I'm no retired millionaire.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2465998].... Many if not most of these businesses are not going to survive. Some groups of older women trying to ply their wears on the street as well. You get the feeling they are doing this out of desperation. It's a very sad and depressing sight. Only ray of light was the new beer bar complex on Soi 7. Seem to be some punters and some happy gals.[/QUOTE]I think that the army are quite prepared to see tourism die in Pattaya and Suk. They hope eventually the shake out will turn Tourism into what they want, Chinese / ASEAN groups and time poor want to be Hi-sos they can fleece and cycle the fuck out of dodge for the next plane load of mugs.

I also think that without a vaccine mass tourism will end, and that's that. Everyone acts like economic certainty is a right, look at a world war 2 documentary, there's no reason why none of that can't repeat next week. The economy is toast. This time next year will see a very unhappy Thai base, and massive unrest.

Tourism at any level past domestic and very limited corridors like Veitnam, is finished for 3-5 years at best, IMO, if it ever returns. Too many other places will never get the virus under the numbers thailand want, which is ZERO. It's irrational, and self defeating, but hav they ever not acted this way?

This is not a refutation of anything you said, I'm just adding my 2 c about how I predict it will go. It's pure speculation based on the dumb shit they always s do.

My main reason for posting is about the new Soi 7 complex, is that the old tunnel?

Sad to hear Beer Bar is so quiet. I hope it makes it. Really could not care less about barfines joints. I'd rather the girls went online. Like in COLOMBIA

I had a free night away from the 3-4 favorite repeats, regulars and non pro gfs last night so I decided to make my rounds through a few spots in the lower Sukhumvit area with the idea to probably wind up in Nana Plaza to check out the latest go-go bar reopenings. I was definitely not in the mood to screen any new girls, risk the likely buzz kill by getting No to either of my two happy ending options so I was fine with encountering a known good one to repeat but also open to being swayed by a very demonstrative, pro-active offer of one of those two services from an interesting newcomer.

Actually, I'd been doing a lot of fucking lately and was feeling very much in the mood for a skilled and determined BBBJ+CIM, extra bonus points for +Swallow. But none of the girls outside the BJ Bars were intriguing to me and, anyway, I was not interested in the uncomfortable cubicle routine and wanted a more elaborate lead up and pay off for the event in my apartment.

As I'd observed and mentioned before, there were a few new faces on the street scene up and down Soi 4 and along Sukhumvit between Soi Cowboy and Nana Plaza. Maybe 5 new faces to me in total. However, I just wasn't getting the vibe I wanted from a girl I expected a good-to-great BBBJ+CIM from. I stopped in Thermae around 9PM. At that hour, there was exactly 1 girl standing at the top of the outside steps on the Sukhumvit front door side. Inside, the place was practically empty on this Wednesday night. Easy to make an accurate count; 15 girls and 4 customers, including me.

I saw a lovely, sweet, girl-next-door type I knew already and had taken for two very good BBFS+CIP Long Times over the past couple of weeks. She flagged me over to please talk to her and take her again. She's been sending me, no exaggeration, at least 25-30 "love you, miss you, heart heart heart" Line stickers every day and night for the past couple of weeks since our first LT together. But this night I was in the mood for a good BBBJ+CIM and that is a bit trickier than when it is only a BBFS+CIP since there are so many ways for the girl to ruin it near or at the finish when it is too late to change the subject. I've given this girl 3,000 baht each for those two LTs and would have done it again this time. In those LTs the DATY was delicious, she seemed to love every lick of it, the fucking was not wild but felt glorious in her superior vagina. No problem with that, particularly after I convinced her to trim back that wild patch of pussy hair before our second LT.

But there is no way I'm going to pay anyone 3,000 baht to get a crappy BJ that ends as a lame HJ or worse no matter how fine it is to cuddle with her into sleepland later.

Therefore, to remove as much doubt and risk of a crappy BJ ending as possible, I discretely told her what I wanted if I took her this time. "NO!"

In my cruise around the bar and on my way out of Thermae, I was stopped by a sexy, slim girl with a great body (as perceived through her tight jeans and halter top) who seemed very enthusiastic about me taking her. But I had just made the executive decision to only take a girl I had been with already and knew with a near certainty was going to give me what I wanted tonight with no discussion, no hassle, no buzz kill and no disappointment. I just didn't want to stand there and talk to this new one about anything. And I had no remote feeling of certainty about her delivering on any promise whatsoever. So I asked for her Line info on the idea that I would cover the details on Line and see her another time. "No have Line, no have phone."

Back to Nana Plaza through light rain, and there she was; a lovely, sexy, 22 year old dream girl type I'd been with a few times before and had been getting urgent messages to please come see her now that she was back from her province and her go-go bar had reopened. Working as a door girl at this moment. In the few times I'd taken her before I never shifted to a BBBJ+CIM because it was such a pleasure to fuck her that I didn't feel a need to change it up for variety. It was possible this night would be the same. Either way, didn't matter, I bought her a LD, paid the 900 baht barfine and off we went.

In the room, everything went as beautifully as before. She has great smooth skin and the DATY was delicious. I had a sense that she might not have cum that good or possibly at all over the past couple of months. I'll never know of course. But I did try to treat her to the kind of extra special oral sex one would give a loved one who hadn't had a good orgasm that way for a long time. Works for me, too. I was ramrod hard and ready for anything after she finished and I brought her down for a long, leisurely, luxuriously slow landing.

But this night I changed it up and moved into BBBJ+CIM position. She readjusted her position too and proceeded with one of the best first time (for me with her) BBBJ+CIMs I've had in a long time. She only required a minimum of tweaking to improve the action for my preferences. Great girl. There was no +Swallow this time. Maybe next time. But, otherwise, it was very much what I was looking for this night. And I definitely got the feeling the 2,500 baht I gave her for the couple of hours we were together was very much what she was looking for right about now as well. LOL.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2467284]I had a free night away from the 3-4 favorite repeats, regulars and non pro gfs last night so I decided to make my rounds through a few spots in the lower Sukhumvit area with the idea to probably wind up in Nana Plaza to check out the latest go-go bar reopenings. I was definitely not in the mood to screen any new girls, risk the likely buzz kill by getting No to either of my two happy ending options so I was fine with encountering a known good one to repeat but also open to being swayed by a very demonstrative, pro-active offer of one of those two services from an interesting newcomer.
(Snip)
LOL.[/QUOTE]Nice report and good for this currently excluded regular visitor to see some action on the forum again. It was getting weird for a while.

Joy was a working girl in Bangkok from around 2000 to 2015 with time off for good behaviour and long term relationships. Apparently she was well know in her day and used to pick up guys in Narz or Spaso, just wonder who else had her as she is very well trained in all aspects of sexual performance!. She is 39 now semi retired from the working game.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2467284]I had a free night away from the 3-4 favorite repeats, regulars and non pro gfs last night so I decided to make my rounds through a few spots in the lower Sukhumvit area with the idea to probably wind up in Nana Plaza to check out the latest go-go bar reopenings. I was definitely not in the mood to screen any new girls, risk the likely buzz kill by getting No to either of my two happy ending options so I was fine with encountering a known good one to repeat but also open to being swayed by a very demonstrative, pro-active offer of one of those two services from an interesting newcomer.

Actually, I'd been doing a lot of fucking lately and was feeling very much in the mood for a skilled and determined BBBJ+CIM, extra bonus points for +Swallow. But none of the girls outside the BJ Bars were intriguing to me and, anyway, I was not interested in the uncomfortable cubicle routine and wanted a more elaborate lead up...But this night I changed it up and moved into BBBJ+CIM position. She readjusted her position too and proceeded with one of the best first time (for me with her) BBBJ+CIMs I've had in a long time. She only required a minimum of tweaking to improve the action for my preferences. Great girl. There was no +Swallow this time. Maybe next time. But, otherwise, it was very much what I was looking for this night. And I definitely got the feeling the 2,500 baht I gave her for the couple of hours we were together was very much what she was looking for right about now as well. LOL.[/QUOTE]Thanks for this awesome report. So fun to read the on the ground detail. In "Nanpa game" there is this concept of abundance and how you can be so much more successful and suave when working from an abundance of girls and sex. Even tho you were paying seems the same here. You got exactly what you were looking for by working from a position of abundance and so not needy or settling for less. This is just an awesome story. Thanks for sharing during this tough time.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2467284]Back to Nana Plaza through light rain, and there she was; a lovely, sexy, 22 year old dream girl type I'd been with a few times before and had been getting urgent messages to please come see her now that she was back from her province and her go-go bar had reopened. Working as a door girl at this moment. In the few times I'd taken her before I never shifted to a BBBJ+CIM because it was such a pleasure to fuck her that I didn't feel a need to change it up for variety. It was possible this night would be the same. Either way, didn't matter, I bought her a LD, paid the 900 baht barfine and off we went.[/QUOTE]Thanks for sharing the report. Which go go bar were you in?

[QUOTE=CockaSaurus;2467445]Thanks for sharing the report. Which go go bar were you in?[/QUOTE]You're welcome. And, Steve9696, thanks for the props!

CockaSaurus, in the past I have given that specific info and more general info on the public forums about where I tend to find the most girls up for my oft-stated overriding requirement in order to have a successful and happy session; primarily BBFS+CIP, by far most often with an upfront agreement from the girl to provide that to me when we get to the room before I pay her barfine, take her from the club, walk away with her on the street, whatever. I might still leak out that kind of info here and there in the threads.

However, I think for now and the foreseeable future, I will only give specific info like that based on a Field Report through PMs and on a case by case basis at that. And, acknowledging that you did not ask this, but I also doubt I will ever give names, badge numbers, detailed and specific descriptions or directions for who or where any girls who have complied with my requirements can be found on the public forums or in PMs. To anyone.

Sorry to be unresponsive about this. But there are so many wannabe White Knight Crusaders here and elsewhere on the Internet against what I and others do in that regard, for all I know a girl I name or a uniquely helpful mamasan that brings girls directly to me off the stage who she knows are up for my requirement that I might mention and so on would tomorrow or soon thereafter be the target of a stern lecture, finger-wagging shame, humiliation, uncalled-for trouble and hassle, whatever. I just don't see how my giving out specific information like that would produce anything but downside and no upside for me. Not even in a PM to posters continually touting their delight and support for BBFS+CIP on these threads who, again for all I know, might be nothing more than White Knight Crusaders in sheep's clothing.

I know if this were the Philippines Reports thread, Jakarta perhaps and some others the issue of which girls give me or anyone else BBFS+CIP would be irrelevant. But, for whatever reason, there is something very different about that when it comes to Thailand in the minds of many punters. If that day ever comes where BBFS+CIP (and BBBJ+CIM+Swallow. lol) is routinely listed on Massage Shop menus, out of the mouths of mamasans and on Escort Service profiles as just another option available to customers throughout Thailand, perhaps requiring some proof of recent blood testing and an additional 500 baht surcharge, then I won't need to be so reluctant about sharing this kind of information. But that day has not arrived.

Then again, I suppose those of us in or planning to come to Thailand who prefer or require BBFS+CIP can always assume to be true what a few posters have repeated here for quite some time; that getting BBFS+CIP from any and every hot, young P4P girl anywhere and everywhere in Thailand is "the norm", easy peasy, rarely needs a word of discussion about it in or out of the room, only occasionally needs an additional small few hundred baht payment to get it any time of the day or night and so on. In which case, nobody needs any specific info from me for finding and getting what I consider a good session at all. Just go out there, choose the hottest Thai girls in the venues, the go-go bars, massage shops, clubs, on the street, on the Escort Service sites, everywhere, don't bother saying a word about it, maybe keep an extra 400-500 baht in your pocket just in case you need to offer it, if ever, and enjoy.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2467548]You're welcome. And, Steve9696, thanks for the props!

CockaSaurus, in the past I have given that specific info and more general info on the public forums about where I tend to find the most girls up for my oft-stated overriding requirement in order to have a successful and happy session; primarily BBFS+CIP, by far most often with an upfront agreement from the girl to provide that to me when we get to the room before I pay her barfine, take her from the club, walk away with her on the street, whatever. I might still leak out that kind of info here and there in the threads.

However, I think for now and the foreseeable future, I will only give specific info like that based on a Field Report through PMs and on a case by case basis at that. And, acknowledging that you did not ask this, but I also doubt I will ever give names, badge numbers, detailed and specific descriptions or directions for who or where any girls who have complied with my requirements can be found on the public forums or in PMs. To anyone.[/QUOTE]As you stated I did not want to know anything about the girl, I was just curious what bars are open now and what they are like currently and also which bar has a 900 barfine.

Anyways thanks for the detailed explanation.

Cheers!

A cluster of pop up bars just opened on Soi 7 also accessible from Sukhumvit. Earlier in the week I noticed a long lineup of girls with what I assumed were work applications of some sort. Don't know who's behind it or where they expect business to come from but God loves a trier and if ever he was ever needed to lend a helping this surely is it. Good Luck.

Crazy House! How have I not found this place before. Went in last Saturday and was blown away to see 20 naked chicks dancing on the stage. Spent time in the BJ bars all day so was there for entertainment purposes only and I was very entertained!

Went back Thursday, one hot petite just had these fuck-me eyes and couldn't keep her away from me. Someone had already bought her a few too many tequilas and I got to reap the benefits. Two LD's got me 90-minutes of lap dancing. She wanted 2500+800 BF.

Say what you want about COVID restrictions, but at 1 am its LIGHTS ON and everything shuts down. So I figure no point paying a barfine when I can just message her after 1 am. Wandered Soi Cowboy a bit and there she was. Took her home LT for 1000 B. She was up and out at 10 am, even putting on a uniform that made her look like she worked at a hotel, and was off to Pattaya for some real job. Part-timer / first-timer at the House? Who knows. Funny chick. Great time, her pussy 2 x tighter than the non-pro I had the day before.

Last night went down to Khaosan. Wow what a change there, 99% Thai and hardly a foreigner to be seen. 95% of the bars playing music that is 300% too loud. The whole laid back scene in Rambutri is pretty much gone with the exception of the VW van. At midnight on the dot, police start making noise up and down the street. Managed to have some late-night beers at the Sawasdee hotel that has always seemed to be 24-hrs, but "lights out".

Fun times in BKK!

Pre c19. It was to my shock and amazement Rainbow Barfine a are 1,000. All girls not ju s t Coyotes.

[QUOTE=DannyDuck;2467908]Pre c19. It was to my shock and amazement Rainbow Barfine a are 1,000. All girls not ju s t Coyotes.[/QUOTE]I walked into Rainbow 2 go-go bar on the ground level, far right corner of Nana Plaza last night about 8:30pm. Some of the bars open as early as 6:30pm now since they must close by 12 Midnite these days (or 1am if no one is looking).

The stages in all the go-go bars that have reopened, and most of them have in Nana Plaza (not so on Patpong 1&2 and Soi Cowboy) are as full of girls as they would be during normal times but there might be only 3-4 customers in any bar at any one time of the night with about the same number of customers in total milling around outside the bars in the Plaza.

That was also the case with Rainbow 2 when I walked in last night. Stage full of girls, maybe 3 customers. As I stepped inside through the curtain making a beeline for a seat on the opposite side of the room, a few very eager, smiling and attentive drink servers gesturing me to please sit here or here or here so I would be in their area, I looked up at a very hot young dancer, the kind this bar is famous for, on the corner of the stage nearest the entrance and I threw her a big smile and nod.

That elicited zero response from her other than staring deadpan and grim-faced at me or let's say precisely in my direction as though I was invisible. Not a return smile, not a nod back, not the slightest acknowledgement that someone else had finally walked into her bar or, least of all, that I had made an effort to bring in a little polite pleasantry along with my money and presence.

So, with that, I stopped walking, dropped my smile, made a mock very sad face back to her, chuckled, turned on my heels, waved off the whole place and walked right back across the room, through the curtain and on to another bar.

Felt good.

I suppose busloads of Japanese and Korean tourists will pull up to fill bars like this one any minute now. So she, all the other girls on the stage, the servers and staff in Rainbow 2 go-go bar certainly didn't and won't miss me. I know I didn't miss them the rest of my lovely night. Actually, I didn't even think about it again until I saw your post about the Rainbow bars.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2468038]...I looked up at a very hot young dancer, the kind this bar is famous for, on the corner of the stage nearest the entrance and I threw her a big smile and nod.

That elicited zero response from her other than staring deadpan and grim-faced at me or let's say precisely in my direction as though I was invisible. Not a return smile, not a nod back, not the slightest acknowledgement that someone else had finally walked into her bar or, least of all, that I had made an effort to bring in a little polite pleasantry along with my money and presence.

So, with that, I stopped walking, dropped my smile, made a mock very sad face back to her, chuckled, turned on my heels, waved off the whole place and walked right back across the room, through the curtain and on to another bar.

Felt good...[/QUOTE]Haha, that was funny, LOL. I like your candor. I had similar experiences in some of my trips as well.

[QUOTE=Lefeu;2468053]Haha, that was funny, LOL. I like your candor. I had similar experiences in some of my trips as well.[/QUOTE]I should mention that kind of attitude from the girls toward a farang man like me is not confined to bars like Rainbow 2 known for catering to Asian customers during normal times. It exists in one form or another in other places.

I went into Butterflies go-go bar last night, too, one of the bars I pulled from fairly often during normal times. I did not get the deadpan blank stare cold shoulder response from the first girls on the stage nearest the door, the ones managrment often hopes will draw you all the way in if you only peek through the curtains, as happened in Rainbow 2. There were pleasant smiles on tap from the stage to greet me as I walked in. So I sat and had a drink.

But I sat there among the 5 or 6 other customers sprinkled around the place for about 30 minutes, smiling at a few of the better looking ones among the 100 or so girls on the stages and did not get the least impression any of them were particularly interested in getting a LD or being barfined. From me, that is.

And I suppose I need to mention I only recognized 2-3 girls from before the lockdown.

So, again, I paid the 150 baht tab for my coke, handed the server an additional 20 baht and walked out. Only this time it was to meet a very cute girl-next-door type 21 year old spinner I met online and with whom I closed a deal for BBFS+CIP and an all night LT for 2,000 plus taxi fare. Closed it in a brief Line chat with her during those last 5 minutes I sat in Butterflies.

And it was everything and more of exactly what I wanted last night. She left at 10:30am this morning. I will definitely repeat.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2468038]I walked into Rainbow 2 go-go bar on the ground level, far right corner of Nana Plaza last night about 8:30pm. Some of the bars open as early as 6:30pm now since they must close by 12 Midnite these days (or 1am if no one is looking).

The stages in all the go-go bars that have reopened, and most of them have in Nana Plaza (not so on Patpong 1&2 and Soi Cowboy) are as full of girls as they would be during normal times but there might be only 3-4 customers in any bar at any one time of the night with about the same number of customers in total milling around outside the bars in the Plaza.

That was also the case with Rainbow 2 when I walked in last night. Stage full of girls, maybe 3 customers. As I stepped inside through the curtain making a beeline for a seat on the opposite side of the room, a few very eager, smiling and attentive drink servers gesturing me to please sit here or here or here so I would be in their area, I looked up at a very hot young dancer, the kind this bar is famous for, on the corner of the stage nearest the entrance and I threw her a big smile and nod.

That elicited zero response from her other than staring deadpan and grim-faced at me or let's say precisely in my direction as though I was invisible. Not a return smile, not a nod back, not the slightest acknowledgement that someone else had finally walked into her bar or, least of all, that I had made an effort to bring in a little polite pleasantry along with my money and presence..[/QUOTE]Pre corona Rainbow 2 was a hard weekday sell.

Except the better girls I don't know how anyone makes money there.

[QUOTE=Balimassage;2467857]
Say what you want about COVID restrictions, but at 1 am its LIGHTS ON and everything shuts down. So I figure no point paying a barfine when I can just message her after 1 am. Wandered Soi Cowboy a bit and there she was. Took her home LT for 1000 B. She was up and out at 10 am, even putting on a uniform that made her look like she worked at a hotel, and was off to Pattaya for some real job. Part-timer / first-timer at the House? Who knows. Funny chick. Great time, her pussy 2 x tighter than the non-pro I had the day before.


[/QUOTE]I remember a time when as soon as you got your phone out in a go-go bar a mamassn would be rushing up to you trying to prevent you exchanging numbers with the girl. Is that still the case or can you safely exchange Line these days in a go-go?

[QUOTE=*****man;2468090]I remember a time when as soon as you got your phone out in a go-go bar a mamassn would be rushing up to you trying to prevent you exchanging numbers with the girl. Is that still the case or can you safely exchange Line these days in a go-go?[/QUOTE]Unsure about Bangkok but many of the top gogo bars in Pattaya don't allow Line exchange INSIDE the bar. Doesn't mean girls don't tell you or write down their Line ID for you. If they're interested in you they will find a way to give you their Line.

[QUOTE=*****man;2468090]I remember a time when as soon as you got your phone out in a go-go bar a mamassn would be rushing up to you trying to prevent you exchanging numbers with the girl. Is that still the case or can you safely exchange Line these days in a go-go?[/QUOTE]I only know pre-COVID, but never would I be given Line ID openly in the bar. She would go to a back room, write it down, and hand it to me later. I sometimes carry 2 or 3 pieces of paper with my Line ID so I could easily give mine to her.

More typical for me is to just pay the bar fine and get her Line ID in the privacy of my hotel room.

[QUOTE=HorseTrader;2468181]More typical for me is to just pay the bar fine and get her Line ID in the privacy of my hotel room.[/QUOTE]My goal is to keep things under control as much as possible and limit the number of Line ID's on my phone to essential repeat girls only. Otherwise my Line account would be inundated with 100's of ID's and I would not know who the hell is who. Thus I only exchange Line ID's after a girl and I have shagged and I still end up with way too many ID's of girls I have no intention of ever texting or seeing again. But that's just the way it is in SE Asia. Thank Buddha. An embarrassment of riches

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;2468206]My goal is to keep things under control as much as possible and limit the number of Line ID's on my phone to essential repeat girls only. Otherwise my Line account would be inundated with 100's of ID's and I would not know who the hell is who.[/QUOTE]We all understand that problem. Often they insist in giving their line information at the end of a session and I always smile and take it. I also tend to do a whole lot of block and delete, sometimes just minutes after we say goodbye.

Rumor has it that ARTBOX, the outdoor market on Sukhumvit Soi 10, will shut down on July 31. So get your fill of food and drink there while you can.

I had heard there was a growing FL scene developing in the sitting area near the bar and music stage in the rear of the site. But I can't say I ever noticed any of the groups of ordinary looking girls out for a night of cheap drinks and snacks back there interacting or making the slightest effort to interact with the men hanging around the same area. If true about the closure, that's too bad. Another Covid-19 casualty.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2468792]Rumor has it that ARTBOX, the outdoor market on Sukhumvit Soi 10, will shut down on July 31. So get your fill of food and drink there while you can.

I had heard there was a growing FL scene developing in the sitting area near the bar and music stage in the rear of the site. But I can't say I ever noticed any of the groups of ordinary looking girls out for a night of cheap drinks and snacks back there interacting or making the slightest effort to interact with the men hanging around the same area. If true about the closure, that's too bad. Another Covid-19 casualty.[/QUOTE]Not Covid, construction. They will start building on the site soon.

Artbox was cool when it used to only run 3 or 4 weekends per year. Lots of hot girls and it was the in thing to do 3 years ago.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2468806]Not Covid, construction. They will start building on the site soon.[/QUOTE]Construction isn't the reason a couple of food vendors in the place are being told the closure will happen as soon as the 1st of next month. Yes, there was going to be construction eventually, but not necessarily so soon. They were told the owner of the night market project can't pay back as many deposits she is required to return to the vendors who bailed due to the lockdown and lack of customers and pay rent on the site for another month.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2468899]Artbox was cool when it used to only run 3 or 4 weekends per year. Lots of hot girls and it was the in thing to do 3 years ago.[/QUOTE]Yes, it was an opportune time and place to meet good looking tourist girls and non P4P locals. But I never did see evidence of it attracting much of a Freelancer P4P crowd I'd heard mentioned even in these past few difficult weeks and months.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2468792]I had heard there was a growing FL scene developing in the sitting area near the bar and music stage in the rear of the site. But I can't say I ever noticed any of the groups of ordinary looking girls out for a night of cheap drinks and snacks back there interacting or making the slightest effort to interact with the men hanging around the same area. [/QUOTE]This is my speculation and opinion only. I think those girls at Artbox are civilians or working girls who aren't actually working at the time. That Nana-Asoke corridor has a lot of hotels and I'd bet a lot of outcall girls after finishing a job might head to Artbox to meet their friends. There are definitely outcall girls whose agency photos I can tell were taken at Artbox.

I used to think the nearby Korea Town had freelancers but it always turned out to be civilian girls waiting for their friends.

[QUOTE=Applesauce;2469189]This is my speculation and opinion only. I think those girls at Artbox are civilians or working girls who aren't actually working at the time. That Nana-Asoke corridor has a lot of hotels and I'd bet a lot of outcall girls after finishing a job might head to Artbox to meet their friends. There are definitely outcall girls whose agency photos I can tell were taken at Artbox.

I used to think the nearby Korea Town had freelancers but it always turned out to be civilian girls waiting for their friends.[/QUOTE]Yes, that is always possible. I did see a few girls sitting with friends who looked like they "could" make money hooking. But they certainly behaved as though they were off the clock and determined to keep it that way, not just toward me but toward any of the many single, double and groups of men all around. Maybe that accounts for some reports I read of girls approached there quoting 3,000 baht for ST and sticking to it.

Now, the largest crowds I ever saw back there was during the general bar lockdown and when you could not drink alcohol in a restaurant but ARTBOX managed to dodge getting busted for breaking the rules back there on the far side of the park. Since the bar reopenings and alcohol consumption in restaurants is allowed, the crowds back there have been notably smaller.

BTW, the new rumor is the owner is telling the vendors she might be able to keep things going a bit longer after all. But that might also be setting the stage for raising the cost of their rent from the discounted rate she allowed for a couple of months during and after the lockdown to higher than it was before the lockdown.

Yes most of the girls at Artbox used to be civilian girls at least when I used to go. The other hipster market similar to Artbox that used to be open on selected weekends was The Knack Market. Lots of nice girls used to go there as well. Not sure it still operate. I miss the Bangkok markets like Rot Fai and JJ Market almost as much as I miss the bars.

Walked through Cowboy at about 10:30 pm last night. It was bleak. Peeked into some of the bars and there were very few customers, even in some of the more popular bars. Lower drink prices and lower BFs have just not brought the locals in past the initial euphoria of the bars opening up again. From what I have heard down the grapevine, many bars are not paying salaries rather letting gals work basically as FLs. Without tourists (and it looks like it will be a long time before quarantine free travel is allowed, who knows maybe even next year), I don't see how they survive. I'd suggest to any owner, 100 Baht drinks and LDs, BF no more than 500 Baht and tell the gals no more than 1500ST. At those prices you might actually be able to get a few more locals in and at least pay the bills.

It's amazing how the entire GoGo scene has changed in the two decades I have been here. Back in the day, it was where you met your mates to drink. Why? Beers were 80 Baht (2 USD at the time). It was one of the cheapest places to drink and of course the gals. Over the years just about any other place aside from the hotels and high end restaurants became cheaper places to meet up and drink. The formula kept both the locals and tourists in the bars. The locals saw the bars through the long low season as well. Gals were paid under 10 k a month to dance. They made their money, well, that goes without saying. With the advent of coyotes and agency gals operating costs increased and drink prices and BFs climbed along with gal's salaries. Gals now are making 30 k a month which is enough to survive on, so they can hold out for huge ST fees. With the current situation we will continue to see prices for ST and LT decrease, that is if the gals do indeed want to make money. After the end of Sept when amnesty runs out, they will really have to rely on the locals. I imagine this will impact Pattaya more than it will BKK. Probably more amnesty dudes in Patters as opposed to BKK. Mid Oct might be a really great time for a Pattaya trip!

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2469811]Walked through Cowboy at about 10:30 pm last night. It was bleak. Peeked into some of the bars and there were very few customers, even in some of the more popular bars. Lower drink prices and lower BFs have just not brought the locals in past the initial euphoria of the bars opening up again. From what I have heard down the grapevine, many bars are not paying salaries rather letting gals work basically as FLs. Without tourists (and it looks like it will be a long time before quarantine free travel is allowed, who knows maybe even next year), I don't see how they survive. I'd suggest to any owner, 100 Baht drinks and LDs, BF no more than 500 Baht and tell the gals no more than 1500ST. At those prices you might actually be able to get a few more locals in and at least pay the bills.

It's amazing how the entire GoGo scene has changed in the two decades I have been here. Back in the day, it was where you met your mates to drink. Why? Beers were 80 Baht (2 USD at the time). It was one of the cheapest places to drink and of course the gals. Over the years just about any other place aside from the hotels and high end restaurants became cheaper places to meet up and drink. The formula kept both the locals and tourists in the bars. The locals saw the bars through the long low season as well. Gals were paid under 10 k a month to dance. They made their money, well, that goes without saying. With the advent of coyotes and agency gals operating costs increased and drink prices and BFs climbed along with gal's salaries. Gals now are making 30 k a month which is enough to survive on, so they can hold out for huge ST fees. With the current situation we will continue to see prices for ST and LT decrease, that is if the gals do indeed want to make money. After the end of Sept when amnesty runs out, they will really have to rely on the locals. I imagine this will impact Pattaya more than it will BKK. Probably more amnesty dudes in Patters as opposed to BKK. Mid Oct might be a really great time for a Pattaya trip![/QUOTE]I have noticed a few mamasans taking a much more proactive interest in asking me what kind of girl I want, making the brief rounds to screen for it and bringing me an eager candidate. Not all mamasans, to be sure. But some. Only 1 or 2 mamasans in town were even vaguely interested in doing something so useful in their job prior to the shutdown.

I suspect in some cases the mamasans are on commission only terms as well and the girls have to pay them their 500 baht or whatever commission when they return to the bar for scoring them a customer they might never have scored without her help.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2469811]....From what I have heard down the grapevine, many bars are not paying salaries rather letting gals work basically as FLs. Without tourists (and it looks like it will be a long time before quarantine free travel is allowed, who knows maybe even next year), I don't see how they survive.
... [/QUOTE]I can confirm an example of your news from the grapevine. In March one of my Butterflies girls went home to Buriram and lived with family on the farm. About 2 weeks ago she was part of a 4 girl group of friends who went to BKK. They worked in various Nana and Cowboy places. None of them collected salary, only commissions on a few drinks. I don't know if any of them got bar fined. All four girls are now traveling back to Buriram.

QLee keeps getting banned by ThaiFriendly. So she's not on there right now. She's happy to meet for same price listed before (2500 for 3 hrs, though will stay longer if you keep giving her stiff dick).

She's a very friendly, naughty, sweet, punctual, calm, horny lady. Will happily do almost anything you want. She has an MBA, no kids, comes from a middle class family, but does this because she likes it (mostly cam now, but definitely wants to meet more men in real life). Not young or skinny, but pics are accurate / recent.

I can give contact info to members who message me in exchange for a contact who does GFE / PSE for a reasonable price.

[QUOTE=ExpatAbroad;2463389]Hi Zeus,

The lady in your post sounds exactly what I'm looking for. Enthusiastic. Can you please let me know her age appropriately because l searched her name on TF and couldn't find her.

Many thanks.[/QUOTE]

I know a girl named Mintra, living in soi4, great body, love her ass in doggy, she is about 25 yo and she seems to love some good pse sex. The two time she came in my place I fucked her ass and she put one of my sextoy in her pussy while I fuck her ass. We even did some double vag using the toy. She quote usually 2500 thb for 2 shots. Let me know how we can exchange the contact as I am not a premium, I don't have bitcoin and live way too far to send a check to subscribe

[QUOTE=Buscar;2470102]QLee keeps getting banned by ThaiFriendly. So she's not on there right now. She's happy to meet for same price listed before (2500 for 3 hrs, though will stay longer if you keep giving her stiff dick).

She's a very friendly, naughty, sweet, punctual, calm, horny lady. Will happily do almost anything you want. She has an MBA, no kids, comes from a middle class family, but does this because she likes it (mostly cam now, but definitely wants to meet more men in real life). Not young or skinny, but pics are accurate / recent.

I can give contact info to members who message me in exchange for a contact who does GFE / PSE for a reasonable price.[/QUOTE].

I think if you reach 20 posts, you will be able to send and receive messages. I can't message you now. If you have internet, you can get bitcoins. Or just post more helpful posts and you will get messaging privileges.

QLee also has toys.

[QUOTE=Madmax33;2470141]I know a girl named Mintra, living in soi4, great body, love her ass in doggy, she is about 25 yo and she seems to love some good pse sex. The two time she came in my place I fucked her ass and she put one of my sextoy in her pussy while I fuck her ass. We even did some double vag using the toy. She quote usually 2500 thb for 2 shots. Let me know how we can exchange the contact as I am not a premium, I don't have bitcoin and live way too far to send a check to subscribe

.[/QUOTE]

Just arrived, back after 5 months.

Can someone confirm that short time hotels are open as usual? For example those in Suk soi 7. I won't have much time to look for one so any info is appreciated.

In addition, are there short time hotels in On Nut area?

Thanks in advance.

J.

No local infections here for over 2 months meaning if reliable no possibility of Covid 19 reemergence unless it comes from outside. Problem is the economy is in ICU with a less than promising prognosis. Reality check, they have no choice but to start to reopen and that is what is happening slowly but surely. Already businesses that depend on low cost migrant labor from adjoining countries are being accommodated by allowing thousands back in with what seems like less than strict testing and quarantine arrangements. Medical bubbles, film crews, elite card holders, work visa holders, those with family members and oddball military and diplomatic groups are either here or on their way. Plans are already in place for limited numbers of tourists from some Asian countries where the virus is contained. When they will get around to allowing visiting farangs back in is I feel still a ways off and only then with pretty restrictive conditions. That said once the rest of the world is opening up to tourists it's unlikely Thailand will stay closed.

As to the local mongering scene it's about as good as it can get. A trip Sunday night down Cowboy was embarrassing in how many hands were dragging me hither and thither. Visited half a dozen shops, Crazy horse was a bummer, usual irritating hustle from servers and the ladies and a less than attractive line up plus a 170 tab for a beer. Best was Baccara, 90 baht beers and some real cuties more than eager to show their love, 230 lady drinks and an asking price of 3000ST dropped without me asking to 2000 before I headed on. Ended up with a more seasoned but attractive 30 year old from Country Road. Others may disagree but for me I feel like a kid in a candy store just after I got my pocket money.

Most of them are open as the girls are back in Agogo and street. I have been to one in soi4 price was still the same

[QUOTE=Jean428;2470294]Just arrived, back after 5 months.

Can someone confirm that short time hotels are open as usual? For example those in Suk soi 7. I won't have much time to look for one so any info is appreciated.

In addition, are there short time hotels in On Nut area?

Thanks in advance.

J.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2470369]As to the local mongering scene it's about as good as it can get. [/QUOTE]The Bangkok scene is exceptional now because there are so few punters, and zero prospect of more coming in anytime soon. That makes the remaining women more desperate to snag a customer, and perhaps even perform well in hope of a repeat. At least it holds for those who are not too spaced out to think.

About a week ago I had a freelancer near Soi 19 for 500 baht, at her suggestion. I'm a stingy bastard but even I wouldn't dare offer under 1000 on Sukhumvit in order not to be offensive (in Pattaya it's ok). She wasn't a hag, a cute and clean 35 year old with no tattoos or fake anything, albeit on the plump side. Repeated a few days later too. At that price, and with good service, it's a no-brainer.

Unfortunately, quality is no better than it was before Covid, with numbers reduced. The scene isn't a patch on the mid-2000's when lower Sukhumvit was full of genuinely attractive women, some of them part-timers, many new to the scene, looking to score a 1000 baht plus maybe a boyfriend / sponsor. There are no desperate young office girls or university students, not even fresh farm girls coming back to the scene. It's the same old not-too-desirable Thais who can't even imagine themselves doing any other job, mostly dregs with a few borderline acceptable ones thrown in. One surprise are 10-20 stranded Vietnamese, some of whom are a well above Thais in looks, and a few still have that girl-next-door cuteness, not hardened with ugly tats.

I get an impression that a higher percentage of girls choose to be freelancers, since bars don't offer much in terms of job security or an advantage in getting customers. That suits me just fine as I'm not a drinker and it's easy for them to accept the 1000 baht that a session is worth to me, without the peer pressure or inflated expectations within bars.

To summarize, it's easy to get plenty of attention as well as decent service for not much money at all on Sukhumvit these days, IF you can manage to pick a girl among the not especially impressive offerings. On several evenings, I just couldn't being myself to choose, despite a few hours of browsing.

In the end, I must admit I feel rather conflicted and uneasy about how desperate the girls are. Refusing an eager offer makes me feel borderline guilty when I know another punter won't be along anytime soon. A few freelancers have even called out to me as I walked along with a girl already in tow. Unless you're blind or drunk out of your mind, the vibe is not exactly fun. Misery and desperation are not fun. Still, with the whole world burning, I'm happy to be stuck in Bangkok rather than elsewhere.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;2470559]The Bangkok scene is exceptional now because there are so few punters, and zero prospect of more coming in anytime soon. That makes the remaining women more desperate to snag a customer, and perhaps even perform well in hope of a repeat. At least it holds for those who are not too spaced out to think.

About a week ago I had a freelancer near Soi 19 for 500 baht, at her suggestion. I'm a stingy bastard but even I wouldn't dare offer under 1000 on Sukhumvit in order not to be offensive (in Pattaya it's ok). She wasn't a hag, a cute and clean 35 year old with no tattoos or fake anything, albeit on the plump side. Repeated a few days later too. At that price, and with good service, it's a no-brainer.

Unfortunately, quality is no better than it was before Covid, with numbers reduced. The scene isn't a patch on the mid-2000's when lower Sukhumvit was full of genuinely attractive women, some of them part-timers, many new to the scene, looking to score a 1000 baht plus maybe a boyfriend / sponsor. There are no desperate young office girls or university students, not even fresh farm girls coming back to the scene. It's the same old not-too-desirable Thais who can't even imagine themselves doing any other job, mostly dregs with a few borderline acceptable ones thrown in. One surprise are 10-20 stranded Vietnamese, some of whom are a well above Thais in looks, and a few still have that girl-next-door cuteness, not hardened with ugly tats.

I get an impression that a higher percentage of girls choose to be freelancers, since bars don't offer much in terms of job security or an advantage in getting customers. That suits me just fine as I'm not a drinker and it's easy for them to accept the 1000 baht that a session is worth to me, without the peer pressure or inflated expectations within bars.[/QUOTE]I think a lot of the Hotter girls do it because they can, not because they are desperate.

Then the rest 1,000 and below girls. They are desperate.

Come on. Too many of us Plump means Fat. Fat means Mai Pen Rai.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;2470559]The Bangkok scene is exceptional now because there are so few punters, and zero prospect of more coming in anytime soon. That makes the remaining women more desperate to snag a customer, and perhaps even perform well in hope of a repeat. At least it holds for those who are not too spaced out to think.

About a week ago I had a freelancer near Soi 19 for 500 baht, at her suggestion. I'm a stingy bastard but even I wouldn't dare offer under 1000 on Sukhumvit in order not to be offensive (in Pattaya it's ok). She wasn't a hag, a cute and clean 35 year old with no tattoos or fake anything, albeit on the plump side. Repeated a few days later too. At that price, and with good service, it's a no-brainer.

Unfortunately, quality is no better than it was before Covid, with numbers reduced. The scene isn't a patch on the mid-2000's when lower Sukhumvit was full of genuinely attractive women, some of them part-timers, many new to the scene, looking to score a 1000 baht plus maybe a boyfriend / sponsor. There are no desperate young office girls or university students, not even fresh farm girls coming back to the scene. It's the same old not-too-desirable Thais who can't even imagine themselves doing any other job, mostly dregs with a few borderline acceptable ones thrown in. One surprise are 10-20 stranded Vietnamese, some of whom are a well above Thais in looks, and a few still have that girl-next-door cuteness, not hardened with ugly tats.

I get an impression that a higher percentage of girls choose to be freelancers, since bars don't offer much in terms of job security or an advantage in getting customers. That suits me just fine as I'm not a drinker and it's easy for them to accept the 1000 baht that a session is worth to me, without the peer pressure or inflated expectations within bars.

To summarize, it's easy to get plenty of attention as well as decent service for not much money at all on Sukhumvit these days, IF you can manage to pick a girl among the not especially impressive offerings. On several evenings, I just couldn't being myself to choose, despite a few hours of browsing.

In the end, I must admit I feel rather conflicted and uneasy about how desperate the girls are. Refusing an eager offer makes me feel borderline guilty when I know another punter won't be along anytime soon. A few freelancers have even called out to me as I walked along with a girl already in tow. Unless you're blind or drunk out of your mind, the vibe is not exactly fun. Misery and desperation are not fun. Still, with the whole world burning, I'm happy to be stuck in Bangkok rather than elsewhere.[/QUOTE]Thank you for touching on an aspect of the current conditions I have been wondering how to express here or whether to express it at all; the lingering buzzkill of saying No every day and night to ten times more needy ladies than I have time, money and ejaculate to help. And, as you point out, it isn't as though the overwhelming options in this perceived "Pecker Paradise" are hot young babes eager to satify our every sexual desire. Most are hard cases in terms of looks, age, demeanor and, little doubt in my mind for my requirements, service levels and skills.

Where it has effected me the most is among my favorites who for months before the lockdown were already hitting all bases for me in every department and I was delighted to have them on call for a great low cost if not free LT any time I wasn't finding exactly what I wanted in a new hunt.

During normal times I might not choose to see any one of them but once every 2-3 weeks. And they didn't pester me very much in between because they were busy with other expat regulars here and there, too.

But NOW most of those other expats got caught outside the Thai borders on business or family issues, there are virtually no new and acceptable options for those favorites so I am in the position of picking and choosing who to help survive every week from among a stable of honeys, all of whom have certainly earned and deserve my loyalty.

The book and movie "Sophie's Choice" comes to mind.

And how to squeeze in the cute early 20s freebies I have been enjoying every few days and who I sure as hell don't want to "break up" with now?

Add to that dilemma my personal interest to get out there and experience more and new girls as well as do my part to encourage a MUCH higher level of proactively offered service from the better looking girls in the usual venues we'd find them in around here to hopefully markedly improve the overall ongoing scene for me and for the eventual returning punters after more and more flights are resumed and it is not as much 24/7 fun as many on the outside might understandably imagine it to be.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;2470559]In the end, I must admit I feel rather conflicted and uneasy about how desperate the girls are. Refusing an eager offer makes me feel borderline guilty when I know another punter won't be along anytime soon. A few freelancers have even called out to me as I walked along with a girl already in tow. Unless you're blind or drunk out of your mind, the vibe is not exactly fun. Misery and desperation are not fun. Still, with the whole world burning, I'm happy to be stuck in Bangkok rather than elsewhere.[/QUOTE]Absolutely the street scene is mostly sad and depressing. There is a palpable sense of desperation out there that is almost tantamount to begging. I avoid eye contact to minimize feelings of helplessness but occasionally give a couple hundred baht to some of the older women, at least they can eat for a few days.

Now gogos are a different proposition. While aware the prettiest girls always worked there I wasn't a fan before. Over priced drinks, too crowded, a need to keep an eye on your bill, complications choosing a girl with competition for the best looking girls from younger Asians and self-styled track stars with so called game, interfering pushy mamasans, obligatory lady drinks and the need for price and service negotiations why bother.

Not anymore, not since they reopened. Competition now pretty much nonexistent unless ET is on the prowl, drink prices down on most of Cowboy and the cutest girls not only available but eager to go with you at reduced rates and a willingness to genuinely take care of you not just in word but in deed.

I have been here over 20 years, yes back in the good days the scene was different, cheaper, more accommodating to farangs but that was then. For those of us fortunate enough to be here now I would suggest putting nostalgic reminiscing away for a while and enjoy what a year from now will also become another nostalgic reminiscence.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2470603] For those of us fortunate enough to be here now I would suggest putting nostalgic reminiscing away for a while and enjoy what a year from now will also become another nostalgic reminiscence.[/QUOTE]Imo those who reminisce about the past don't have much going on in their lives right now. I have a married friend who has nothing but domestic living with his wife and kids now and he continually keeps reminiscing about 20 years ago when we were going to nightclubs every night picking up civilian girls.

it is human nature to reminisce about the past. Take a few minutes and read the archives on this board. Guys were complaining in what is now the Good Old Days about how it sucked and was better in the days prior to the Good Old Days!

Since I'm currently stuck outside looking in I say that I sure do miss the Good Old Days of 2016!

[QUOTE=Jean428;2470294]Just arrived, back after 5 months.

Can someone confirm that short time hotels are open as usual? For example those in Suk soi 7. I won't have much time to look for one so any info is appreciated.

In addition, are there short time hotels in On Nut area?

Thanks in advance.

J.[/QUOTE]I have been offered ST meeting in Lee Garden hotel On-nut.

I live too far away so didn't go.

I still find interesting how girls in the street, meeting apps keep asking for crazy amount. Yesterday around 1 am I couldn't sleep and got quite horny, so I took my back and had a drive through Sukhumvit and Soi nana. Not much freelancer in Nana, I believe maybe because of the PH, but then near to the new Hyatt and Sofitel, I talked to 2 girls, one asking 2500 thb for ST the other one 2000 thb also for ST. I even didn't bother negotiating, I always believe that if I have to negotiate, service would be lower quality. I know situation is bad for them, but they should also consider that people here for now can be kind of regular customers and I don't mind if I had a good time to give a good tip. Since the lockdown I met some freelance on Tinder and Soi Nana. 4 of them asked me first time for 2000 thb for w shot and 500 thb more if anal for 3 of them. I had great time with them, they are nice to talk with, funny, very pretty, naughty. Finally I keep meeting each of them once / twice a month depending on my horny mood. They are happy each time I contact them I sometimes invite them for a drink or a dinner without having sex, just to bring them out having some fun and they give it well back later in the bed when I call them. This is for me the way they should think, but I believe it is easier to accuse the Fatality of not having customer than considering they don't do it the right way.

Also, yesterday I stopped at Bilboard, had a soda water as I am on a non alcool, no sugar, for the next 2 weeks, and they charge it 150 thb. Seriously for a fucking soda water. At the end, I drink it and left quickly, didn't want to spend time with girl trying to get a LD that would cost way too much and especially knowing I would not take her as I rarely take any Agogo girl. After living 8 years in SEA including 3 in Bkk I have to say that they don't really know how to drive a business and I would not being surprise price goes up when borders will reopen, this is already what happen in 2014 after the fights between red and yellow

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2470603]Absolutely the street scene is mostly sad and depressing. There is a palpable sense of desperation out there that is almost tantamount to begging. I avoid eye contact to minimize feelings of helplessness but occasionally give a couple hundred baht to some of the older women, at least they can eat for a few days.

Now gogos are a different proposition. While aware the prettiest girls always worked there I wasn't a fan before. Over priced drinks, too crowded, a need to keep an eye on your bill, complications choosing a girl with competition for the best looking girls from younger Asians and self-styled track stars with so called game, interfering pushy mamasans, obligatory lady drinks and the need for price and service negotiations why bother..[/QUOTE]

I have used Lee garden hotel once in soi onnut.

[QUOTE=Jean428;2470294]Just arrived, back after 5 months.

Can someone confirm that short time hotels are open as usual? For example those in Suk soi 7. I won't have much time to look for one so any info is appreciated.

In addition, are there short time hotels in On Nut area?

Thanks in advance.

J.[/QUOTE]

Thank you, I do not know any GFE females as I live in the suburbs sorry.

[QUOTE=Buscar;2470102]QLee keeps getting banned by ThaiFriendly. So she's not on there right now. She's happy to meet for same price listed before (2500 for 3 hrs, though will stay longer if you keep giving her stiff dick).

She's a very friendly, naughty, sweet, punctual, calm, horny lady. Will happily do almost anything you want. She has an MBA, no kids, comes from a middle class family, but does this because she likes it (mostly cam now, but definitely wants to meet more men in real life). Not young or skinny, but pics are accurate / recent.

I can give contact info to members who message me in exchange for a contact who does GFE / PSE for a reasonable price.[/QUOTE]

Hi Zeus,

Did you ever find out the soi?

I live up that way.

Cheers.

[QUOTE=Zeus9;2458620]I just read a coconuts article mentioning this area in Pathum Thani. A couple girls got fined for not wearing a mask while offering boom boom in the street to passing cars, 555! Apparently that area is known for that. It seems like a fun trip to me, but I'm not sure of the exact location of the street. Soi Pan Sook (translates to sharing) is a local nickname. So I have no idea of the real street name. Is anybody aware of where it could be, or has been to this area? I'm close to Pathum Thani. So I'the be happy to report more if I can find it.[/QUOTE]

Last night went out again to see if it was busier than Tuesday night, but as it was a bit raining, the scene was about the same. However passing front of Sofitel I noticed this skinny girl walking and looking around her. I stopped and she noticed me. She asked 1000 thb ST and 2000 thb LT. I took her and we went in my home. She is very skinny, but surprisingly still has some nice tits. Her name Toyjoy (that's not from me I swear) 33 yo, I would say quite cute face with beautiful eyes, english close to 0, but she keep smiling like an innocent. I had that fantasy to fuck one skinny like that, lucky me found her. Going to shower she takes the time, start to be playful, I like that! Provide her a DATY and she started to be quite wet. BJ is just OK, she cannot go too deep. Then she came on me and I felt it to be deep in her. She start riding me, we change some position and tried to finger her ass. She doesn't say no, so took some oil and lub and tried to get in. I am not sure she does it very often, but she let me in, slowly, not so deep, but still. I stopped quickly as I saw she was not enjoying it and get back to her tight pussy. Then after a good session, I COF. Shower and called her a taxi. The plus plus that I liked then was While waiting the taxi, she was lay down on the sofa and started to rub my dick with her foot. Asked her for another round, she smiled and say yes, which in normal time I would have been back at it right away but got a bit tired. Damage 1000+tips, she is nice girl, I took her whatsapp and will certainly call her back.

[QUOTE=Madmax33;2470859]I always believe that if I have to negotiate, service would be lower quality. [/QUOTE]Back in the old times when decent girls were plentiful and most were asking for 1000 baht, I shared your opinion too, I would have rather not negotiated in order not to spoil the mood. Was easy to simply pass up the ones who were asking for too much (and feels good too).

These days, however, doable girls on Sukhumvit are exceedingly rare, and most would quote way too much money off the bat. A typical one-and-done session is just not worth more than 1000 baht for me. No option now except to negotiate, but I prefer to throw out my price first ("is 1000 ok? Good old anchoring technique, and let her figure it out. Being sweet helps, a few times I exchanged Line with the girl and was apologetic about only being able to offer 1000, but she can always send me a message if she changes her mind (or if I win the lottery, I pay her 10 k, 555). Many do tend to change their mind after 30 min of watching zero customers walk by.

[QUOTE] I know situation is bad for them, but they should also consider that people here for now can be kind of regular customers and I don't mind if I had a good time to give a good tip.[/QUOTE]Most of the Thai working girls over the last few years are not the brightest of bulbs and set in their ways. They're more likely to just instinctively continue whatever they were doing before Covid, rather than reassess the situation and adapt. Business logic would dictate that they would prefer long-time too (for a small extra fee, or even just for a tip and prospect of repeat business), as chances of getting more than one customer in an evening are almost nil. They tend not to do this.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;2471123]Back in the old times when decent girls were plentiful and most were asking for 1000 baht, I shared your opinion too, I would have rather not negotiated in order not to spoil the mood. Was easy to simply pass up the ones who were asking for too much (and feels good too).

These days, however, doable girls on Sukhumvit are exceedingly rare, and most would quote way too much money off the bat. A typical one-and-done session is just not worth more than 1000 baht for me. No option now except to negotiate, but I prefer to throw out my price first ("is 1000 ok? Good old anchoring technique, and let her figure it out. Being sweet helps, a few times I exchanged Line with the girl and was apologetic about only being able to offer 1000, but she can always send me a message if she changes her mind (or if I win the lottery, I pay her 10 k, 555). Many do tend to change their mind after 30 min of watching zero customers walk by.

Most of the Thai working girls over the last few years are not the brightest of bulbs and set in their ways. They're more likely to just instinctively continue whatever they were doing before Covid, rather than reassess the situation and adapt. Business logic would dictate that they would prefer long-time too (for a small extra fee, or even just for a tip and prospect of repeat business), as chances of getting more than one customer in an evening are almost nil. They tend not to do this.[/QUOTE]I find it difficult to find any decent looking girl for less than 1500 lately. Whatever on the streets or online. At the end I usually give in for 1500 and mostly it's just a very mediocre service. My only regular moved to ChiangMai too.

[QUOTE=Madmax33;2470859]I still find interesting how girls in the street, meeting apps keep asking for crazy amount...[/QUOTE]I will confirm as well regarding the current scene that I have experienced during these hard economic times.

I'm not as experienced in Thailand (or SEA in general) but after all the the initial rush and excitement of being in Thailand, this place is beginning to frustrate and wear me out.

Without going into great details, recently, there was a misunderstanding at a BJ bar (7-Heaven) that I just cannot understand. After so many visits to the same place, you would think they would take great care to provide some decent customer service and reward loyalty. Nope. Anyways that place is no longer part of my monthly routine.

This past month:

Went to Tokyo BJ bar (on Soi 33) and was not impressed. Service with the girl I chose was so-so.

Checked out Soi Cowboy on different days of the week; depressing. Checked out Nana Plaza in the same fashion; depressing.

A lot of girls in Billboard; yet same ridiculous prices.

I wonder who are actually running these joints? Foreigners or Thais?

I'm really curious because there doesn't seem to be any good business sense. Does management not have a clue on how to adapt and create demand in this current situation?

These businesses that mostly rely on just short-term holiday patrons are not going to last long for sure unless they find better ways to cater to the local (expats / long-term residents).

What I was quoted at Billboard: 3000 short-time / 700 bar-fine; Really? No changes?

Anyways, I echo the same as what some others are saying. It's still the same. There are still no discounts or bargains that I could find unless you feel like constantly playing the negotiating game.

Agree with you, I remember when I arrived in 2012, I was a newbie, but, still in ckub girls were asking 1500-2000 thb for LT. Means we went back to ky place around 3 am and she stayed until 12, so I had fucked usually 3 times plus had some massage and so on. Now I cannot expect this anymore in BKK are rarely.

I always have this feeling the punters have been showing way too much interest regarding the Thai girls which make them believing that they are superstar and that we should be lucky enough to have them with us. Am quite good looking, I never had any issue to find some pretty sexy GF anywhere I have been. I decide to go to see hookers bc I have a huge sex appetite and cannot spend all my evening and my money drinking in bar. Also now I have a GF for a while. She is blocked in another country due to closing borders, so going for a hooker is also paying to not have the mistress issue, I fuck, I pay, goodbye, no risk of any coming and making trouble. But the attitude of the girls has changed so much, they believe that who ever come to see them cannot find GF. I deeply disagree with that but punters who make them feels too much like princess, show them the opposite.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;2471123]Back in the old times when decent girls were plentiful and most were asking for 1000 baht, I shared your opinion too, I would have rather not negotiated in order not to spoil the mood. Was easy to simply pass up the ones who were asking for too much (and feels good too).

These days, however, doable girls on Sukhumvit are exceedingly rare, and most would quote way too much money off the bat. A typical one-and-done session is just not worth more than 1000 baht for me. No option now except to negotiate, but I prefer to throw out my price first ("is 1000 ok? Good old anchoring technique, and let her figure it out. Being sweet helps, a few times I exchanged Line with the girl and was apologetic about only being able to offer 1000, but she can always send me a message if she changes her mind (or if I win the lottery, I pay her 10 k, 555). Many do tend to change their mind after 30 min of watching zero customers walk by.

Most of the Thai working girls over the last few years are not the brightest of bulbs and set in their ways. They're more likely to just instinctively continue whatever they were doing before Covid, rather than reassess the situation and adapt. Business logic would dictate that they would prefer long-time too (for a small extra fee, or even just for a tip and prospect of repeat business), as chances of getting more than one customer in an evening are almost nil. They tend not to do this.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;2471123]Back in the old times when decent girls were plentiful and most were asking for 1000 baht, I shared your opinion too, I would have rather not negotiated in order not to spoil the mood. Was easy to simply pass up the ones who were asking for too much (and feels good too).

These days, however, doable girls on Sukhumvit are exceedingly rare, and most would quote way too much money off the bat. A typical one-and-done session is just not worth more than 1000 baht for me. No option now except to negotiate, but I prefer to throw out my price first ("is 1000 ok? Good old anchoring technique, and let her figure it out. Being sweet helps, a few times I exchanged Line with the girl and was apologetic about only being able to offer 1000, but she can always send me a message if she changes her mind (or if I win the lottery, I pay her 10 k, 555). Many do tend to change their mind after 30 min of watching zero customers walk by.

Most of the Thai working girls over the last few years are not the brightest of bulbs and set in their ways. They're more likely to just instinctively continue whatever they were doing before Covid, rather than reassess the situation and adapt. Business logic would dictate that they would prefer long-time too (for a small extra fee, or even just for a tip and prospect of repeat business), as chances of getting more than one customer in an evening are almost nil. They tend not to do this.[/QUOTE]Right, their logic defies reason. One would think that a LT opp in a nice apartment or hotel with decent a-see beats standing on the street all night with so few customers to be had. What are the chances they will find two clients when even one is hard to come by? It may take some time for the reality to set in, which is there is no high season coming unless the Thai government drastically changes their M. O. In addition, by their kicking out the remaining remnants of the ex pat visa overstays by September 26, there goes another source of tourist spending. Really remarkable how they are shooting themselves in the foot.

At some point and probably soon, there is going to be a vast sea change in pricing and, I suspect, attitude. I look forward to continued excellent on ground reporting.

Well luckily some open their eyes and are reasonable, and those one are the one I don't mind giving a nice tips if th session was nice. Just for the story, about 2 months ago o took this girl in soi 4 with some big natural boobs. Slightly on the chubby side, but great rack and ass was firm.

We went to a ST hotel in soi 4. Session was not so good except that she do what you say except anal. So I gave her a good facefuck and she give me a long rimming. Then 3 weeks ago I saw her again and that remind me how she licked me and got it deep in her throat. So I asked her again. While first time it was 1000 thb from her own proposition, the second time she asked for 2000 thb. I saw she didn't recognize me so I told her first that it was way too expensive which she drop to 1500, then I told her 1000 thb. She hesitated so I started to move away and she agree on 1000. Bring her to my home that time and told her that we already met before. She looked at me with desperate eyes like I talked to her about science. Anyway we did our things, was not as good as first time, so gave her 1000 thb and send her back. I saw her last night while driving around.

[QUOTE=Tomasb;2471202]Right, their logic defies reason. One would think that a LT opp in a nice apartment or hotel with decent a-see beats standing on the street all night with so few customers to be had. What are the chances they will find two clients when even one is hard to come by? It may take some time for the reality to set in, which is there is no high season coming unless the Thai government drastically changes their M. O. In addition, by their kicking out the remaining remnants of the ex pat visa overstays by September 26, there goes another source of tourist spending. Really remarkable how they are shooting themselves in the foot.

At some point and probably soon, there is going to be a vast sea change in pricing and, I suspect, attitude. I look forward to continued excellent on ground reporting.[/QUOTE].

I got in contact with this girl named Chotie. 30 yo, English via message seems good, and so far her pictures also. Asked her if she was into threesome with girls playing together and she confirmed me that she is Bi and love to play with girls. So am looking to find a girl to join us that would be open for a real threesome and not just a kiss kiss and each one getting bang one by one. Does anyone met her before? I plan to meet her Sunday or Monday to spend a full afternoon of sex. Actually she accepted 2000 thb for whole afternoon with 3 shots, which is very reasonable especially if she is naughty as she told me.

I might have found a girl on Tinder OK to meet us (mentioned we are GF / BF) and I hope she is really playful like she said. If any feedback, please let me know.

[QUOTE=Tomasb;2471202]...

At some point and probably soon, there is going to be a vast sea change in pricing and, I suspect, attitude. I look forward to continued excellent on ground reporting.[/QUOTE]In my own little way, I am trying more to promote the attitude sea change during this time. I honestly don't think anything about getting a 500-1000 baht discount on most girls worth now or ever has much "sticking power." Even during normal times it is possible to get those kind of discounts on price if you are willing to time it right. Next day some dude still gave them twice that amount for doing nothing more than they did for you. And the reality is there is a lot less flexibility in what a girl can allow when it comes to discounts. It isn't as though her landlord, the taxi driver, phone service provider, food market owners, etc are going to charge her less during hard times. Not for very long, at least.

I am not surprised to experience and read reports about FLs on the street, in Thermae or in a go-go bar stubbornly refusing to budge very much on the going rate from normal times. In many ways, they just can't do that and still pay their bills. Especially if they might only get one customer per night or every 2-3 nights. Therefore, when a girl shows up on Sukhumvit Road, stands in Thermae or shows up at a go-go bar there is only so much she can cut from her going rate or she might as well pack it up and return to her province. Which I don't want her to do anyway.

However, there IS something in the P4P exchange that most girls working in Thailand can be much, much more flexible about than they have been in the recent past and that is a factor that, imo, is worth negotiating. Of course, that is the "for doing what in the room?" element of the negotiation. Which I feel is related very much to what I consider an improved attitude about their chosen method of making a living.

And, more often than not, once a girl who has never before expanded her horizons for what she is willing to do in the room discovers that her head did not explode after all, that she didn't die from farang jizz hitting the back of her throat and that being on a birth control regime and requesting to see the same kind of recent medical check document I can show her goes a long way to reducing to near zero most of the problems she would ever encounter while providing Real Sex/True GFE, she might very well keep those horizons broadened for the next customers by adding it to her list of available services. It might even be a matter of agreeing to a Long Time instead of a Short Time for the amount of money she must have to pay her bills this week. Where, wonder of wonders, she might discover she really can sleep pretty good next to certain customers after all. In other words, that element of the deal has more potential "sticking power" in terms of making a real change for the future vs just getting a discount today for what will surely go back to normal rates soon enough.

[QUOTE=Tomasb;2471202]Right, their logic defies reason. One would think that a LT opp in a nice apartment or hotel with decent a-see beats standing on the street all night with so few customers to be had. What are the chances they will find two clients when even one is hard to come by? It may take some time for the reality to set in, which is there is no high season coming unless the Thai government drastically changes their M. O. In addition, by their kicking out the remaining remnants of the ex pat visa overstays by September 26, there goes another source of tourist spending. Really remarkable how they are shooting themselves in the foot.

At some point and probably soon, there is going to be a vast sea change in pricing and, I suspect, attitude. I look forward to continued excellent on ground reporting.[/QUOTE]All the Sea change will be for the Worst. LOL.

Um. The Koreans and Japs are not showing up in droves. All the girls have left are Cheap Charlie's.

No offense. You know what I mean.

I am don't fully agree, of course taxi, food market will not drop their price, but, landlord does, mine as personally drop of 20% my salary, electricity for most place is nearly free for last 3 months. Am not saying that is enough but what as mentioned before, what is better? No customers for 2-3 days? Or being reasonable asking less and having even just one per day? At the end that would bring roughly 24 kthb which is way more than the average salary, their room if alone (and many time they are not) is usually 3000/4000 thb and food as they only buy cooked food about 150 thb including their collagen drink from 7/11, means 4500 thb, so for about 8000 thb they have their roof and food. Electricity of course depend on the AC but now it cost nothing as government help on this, then phone is maybe 300 thb. So at the end taxi would be the big expense but now with grab a bike, from nana to On Nut that cost about 90 thb. So in 1 month I would say 10000 thb is the minimum they spend if no party and so on. So asking 1000 thb per guy would ensure more likely to make everyday money and pay enough for everything, but for sure they will not be able to save for the new Iphone that seems so important in their life. Just to finalize, those numbers I got them via a freelancer that I met quite often. After what I agree is they should be more open mind on what to do in bed, and for my case I always give a tip from 200 to 500 if she was great in bed. I don't say she has to say yes to everything to have the 500, if she doesn't want anal, fine, but the attitude and the way to say no will make the difference.

I seem to one of the few regulars who is experiencing and enjoying a perceived change in the go go scene re lack of competition, reduced prices etc. I guess the difference can be explained by the old adage that all perception is relative.

When thinking about it the following cliches come to mind.

It all depends on how one looks at it.

Glass half full, glass half empty.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Different strokes for different folks.

Your mileage may vary (YMMV).

We see what we want to see.

On a different topic, the relationship between pricing and service and whether negotiating results in a change in attitude on the part of the girl I would say this has not been my experience. I"m not a cheap charlie but neither am I a chump. I know the going rates and don't overpay. Sometimes it's happened I like a girl and she quotes a silly price mostly out of habit because she sometimes gets a newbie to bite but when I smile and tell her "me not tourist" we quickly settle the deal. I will say that if out of shall I say out of necessity she has to accept a derisory fee then yes very possibly she will just go through the motions take her money and get out of there.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2471421]I seem to one of the few regulars who is experiencing and enjoying a perceived change in the go go scene re lack of competition, reduced prices etc. I guess the difference can be explained by the old adage that all perception is relative.

When thinking about it the following cliches come to mind.

It all depends on how one looks at it.

Glass half full, glass half empty.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Different strokes for different folks.

Your mileage may vary (YMMV).

We see what we want to see.

On a different topic, the relationship between pricing and service and whether negotiating results in a change in attitude on the part of the girl I would say this has not been my experience. I"m not a cheap charlie but neither am I a chump. I know the going rates and don't overpay. Sometimes it's happened I like a girl and she quotes a silly price mostly out of habit because she sometimes gets a newbie to bite but when I smile and tell her "me not tourist" we quickly settle the deal. I will say that if out of shall I say out of necessity she has to accept a derisory fee then yes very possibly she will just go through the motions take her money and get out of there.[/QUOTE]Couldn't find the edit. Did I mean Perception? Yes I did.

Drop Big Mc Meal price a dollar guarantee sales go up.

Girl drop her price accordingly doesn't mean she will get more customers.

Catch my drift.

Many girls just not that Hot.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2471421]I seem to one of the few regulars who is experiencing and enjoying a perceived change in the go go scene re lack of competition, reduced prices etc. I guess the difference can be explained by the old adage that all perception is relative.

When thinking about it the following cliches come to mind.

It all depends on how one looks at it.

Glass half full, glass half empty.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Different strokes for different folks.

Your mileage may vary (YMMV).

We see what we want to see.

On a different topic, the relationship between pricing and service and whether negotiating results in a change in attitude on the part of the girl I would say this has not been my experience. I"m not a cheap charlie but neither am I a chump. I know the going rates and don't overpay. Sometimes it's happened I like a girl and she quotes a silly price mostly out of habit because she sometimes gets a newbie to bite but when I smile and tell her "me not tourist" we quickly settle the deal. I will say that if out of shall I say out of necessity she has to accept a derisory fee then yes very possibly she will just go through the motions take her money and get out of there.[/QUOTE]I would also say that things are overall better for me now than normal times. Not dramatically so, like the difference between night and day. But different enough to say whatever suggestions, methods and observations we applied and touted for this or that kind of result during normal times do not really apply now.

This is true, except the BigMac sales only go up with those who already have a taste for the beef and special sauce. By the same logic, if a customer already has an acquired taste for "not that hot" girls, then they too will get more of his business of they drop the price.

I like expensive tenderloin but enjoy the occasional down market Happy Meal. So far I think there is a slightly better chance to get prime beef at slightly less cost. I'm just enjoying the buffet.

[QUOTE=DannyDuck;2471611]Drop Big Mc Meal price a dollar guarantee sales go up.

Girl drop her price accordingly doesn't mean she will get more customers.

Catch my drift.

Many girls just not that Hot.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;2470559]The Bangkok scene is exceptional now because there are so few punters, and zero prospect of more coming in anytime soon. That makes the remaining women more desperate to snag a customer, and perhaps even perform well in hope of a repeat. At least it holds for those who are not too spaced out to think.

About a week ago I had a freelancer near Soi 19 for 500 baht, at her suggestion. I'm a stingy bastard but even I wouldn't dare offer under 1000 on Sukhumvit in order not to be offensive (in Pattaya it's ok). She wasn't a hag, a cute and clean 35 year old with no tattoos or fake anything, albeit on the plump side. Repeated a few days later too. At that price, and with good service, it's a no-brainer.
...
[/QUOTE]I think I finally agreed to take this same lady yesterday. If she is not the same lady you mentioned here, the lady I am talking about fits your description very well. I have seen her standing in that area day and night for months but have never seen her walking away with a customer. She has waved me over as I passed by and hit me up to take her a hundred times.

I think she is attractive enough to take for little effort and small money, no problem, but I have honestly been so busy and always had either just finished with another girl or was heading back to my apartment or a bar to meet another one, so I never even had a conversation with this Sukhumvit lady about taking her, just smiles and minimal Hello And How Are You kind of chat in passing.

But yesterday I knew I had a free day today so this time when she hit me up to take her as I walked by I finally stopped to chat a bit more and we exchanged Line info. She had asked me how much I would pay her. I said 1,000 for short time, 2,000 for long time and she seemed delighted by the prospect. I said we can confirm tomorrow by Line about what time to meet.

So this morning about 9am she phone called me on Line asking could we please meet for short time or long time today, either one up to me, she would even come over as early as 12 Noon for an overnight long time.

I was fine with the idea but, true to my form, it was time to get a couple of critical issues cleared up before we set a meeting time.

Absolutely "NO!" to boom boom no condom. Absolutely "NO!" to BBBJ+CIM (I would have agreed to meet her for short time for the latter). I had to explain to her that what she is referring to as a "blowjob" is not really a blowjob finish. It is a handjob with some oral foreplay thrown in. It is possibly just masturbation with some oral foreplay thrown in based on her description for the limit of what she would allow.

That was the end of our budding new possible multiple repeat relationship for 1,000 baht per 1-2 hours or 2,000 baht for staying the night.

I wished her well and good luck going forward.

Does anybody have any info (mostly on girls asking prices and I guess barfines) about the new bar complex at the corner of Sukhumvit and soi 7? I seen it in a video here: [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xI4QzBCbzos&t=465s[/URL].

Major goings on at Nana Plaza.

Lots of shuffling among Bars.

No business so seems strange to commit now. Maybe owners giving space away.

I discovered a place on Soi Cowboy that has been mentioned before on the forum.

The place is called Penny Black. It's like right across Country Road bar at the beginning of the soi (Asok side). It seems to be the hotspot to go to for all the gogo dancers and freelancers after they finish their work in the bars. The place was packed with people around 2 am Saturday. The ratio was definitely more working ladies than the guys.

I found myself there after barfining one of the gogo girls on Soi Cowboy and I ended up partying there with her for some time.

I think this place is more for the partying crowd. The typical dance EDM / hip-hop music club vibe. If you're not into that type of scene, then you'll definitely not like this late-night club.

You could probably dance with a lady, negotiate pricing with the ladies, or I think it's even possible to get freebies there. I'll have to try to go there alone next time to see.

With the depressing quiet vibe that Soi Cowboy has nowadays, this was a change of scenery. A lot of people, lively, and everyone having a good time. Again, this was a Saturday. It could be less lively during weekdays.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2472474]Absolutely "NO!" to boom boom no condom. [/QUOTE]Happy to hear that, good on her for not risking her long-term health. Next time I'll remember to give her a good tip so she doesn't have to.

[QUOTE=Francesco24;2472485]Does anybody have any info (mostly on girls asking prices and I guess barfines) about the new bar complex at the corner of Sukhumvit and soi 7? I seen it in a video here: [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xI4QzBCbzos&t=465s[/URL].[/QUOTE]I pass through there fairly often to check out the scene and I have sat at 4 bars for a drink and to possibly take a girl. It can be quite lively for an hour or two some evenings.

So far I have only seen and met 3 girls I considered attractive enough to buy a drink for as prelude to possibly taking, each in different bars. And of those only one turned out to be genuinely available for barfine. For me, that is. Two were very cute, lobbied hard to get me to sit with them at their bar then clammed up and wondered away mentally and physically (to their cell phone, to the toilet, to another area of the complex, whatever) as soon as their drink hit the table. I never even bothered to ask about the barfine or discuss anything else about a session.

One, at the last bar directly on Soi 7 right before you get to Beer Garden, is still working there most evenings, still lobbying hard for me to sit, still hustling pointless Lady Drinks apparently. Another one just left the scene to get married. LOL. I see pics of her in a wedding gown on her Line Timeline.

A third one was very attentive and fun, the barfine was 500 baht I think and she delivered a very rewarding ST for 1,500 baht. Then she went kookoo emotionally and began pestering me multiple times every day to return to her bar to take her again. Way too nutty. When I pass by her bar now I try to limit it to a smile, wave and keep moving.

I am not one to make mental notes about exact costs unless they are a stand out in either direction. The barfine might have been 600 baht. I could not tell you exactly how much the LDs cost. But I know it was not so notably different on either count than normal. I mean, it wasn't 300 baht barfine and 90 baht for LDs vs 120 baht or anything like that.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;2472640]Happy to hear that, good on her for not risking her long-term health. Next time I'll remember to give her a good tip so she doesn't have to.[/QUOTE]Well, she might not be the same lady. But if she is, any charitable contribution you can make would no doubt be greatly appreciated, which was my reasoning in finally deciding to chat with her a bit longer, exchange Line info and consider taking her at all. Every time I passed by she looked so forlorn and her painfully sad lament about "no customer" seemed heartfelt and genuine.

But why would you want to reward a self-portrayed "desperate for customers" Thai hooker with an extra tip for being silly or lazy enough to refuse delivering a simple CIM finish BJ for hundreds of baht more, probably 2 1/2 times more than nearby younger and cuter girls get for delivering it many times a day without long-term health problems?

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2472722]silly or lazy enough to refuse delivering a simple CIM [/QUOTE]Really ET, come on even you don't believe not wanting to do CIM is down to laziness and silliness.

I went quite early at Billboard, around the 10 pm mark on a weekday. It is definitely a hot place! Many girls, few punters. I got my temperature checked twice, once at the entrance of Nana Plaza, and once at the entrance of Billboard, but it was all a joke. I had forgotten my face mask at home and nobody cared.

There seems to be an A-team and a be-team alternating. Unfortunately, when I arrived, the A-team was on the rotary, and it takes me a while to warm up mentally. But there was a cute girl on the be-team, and at lady-drink time I had good chemistry with her. Maybe 26 years old, 1 m62, not super skinny but definitely not anywhere near the fat zone. Pretty smile.

We went to the nice short-time hotel on the same floor as Billboard but on the other side of the you. Last year, when negotiating this balcony walk, I always used to get harassed by ladyboys, but thankfully this seems to be a thing of the past. There is a Japanese-themed gogo at the other corner with girls dressed in nurse uniforms (Ginza? And I'd definitely want to try that.

In the sack, Fern's performance was pretty good. Nothing to write home about, but since it was my first gogo in a long time, it was well worth the expenditure. You don't pay for the ejaculation per se, but more for the fun overall experience. Anyway, here's the breakdown:

60 Baht Moto-taxi to go.

160 Baht San Miguel Light.

170 Baht Lady Drink.

700 Baht Bar Fine.

350 Baht short-time Hotel.

50 Baht condom.

2500 Baht for Lady (She asked 3000, I countered 2000, we settled 2500, all in the space of 20 seconds).

200 Baht tip.

60 Baht moto-taxi to return.

I would recommend her as a safe option, but probably wouldn't repeat her due to my preference for change. If I had the time, I would definitely repeat Nana Plaza in general, with Billboard as a sure-fire backstop. Contrary to what some people have said, the prices are relatively reasonable compared to what they were in the past.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2472774]Really ET, come on even you don't believe not wanting to do CIM is down to laziness and silliness.[/QUOTE]Yes, I do. I've gotten too many BBBJ+CIMs from too many different types of girls through the years to think it is a big deal for them to figure it out and do it. Girls in BJ Bars knock them off in 10-15 minutes, pocket only 400-500 baht of the fee, tops, and suffer no long term health risks. Many go-go girls, non pro dating site and casual meet up girls do it better than the supposed experts in the BJ Bars.

This isn't about "wanting" to do it, btw.

A chubby 35 year old or whatever grown up adult woman, a Bangkok street hooker, who portrays herself as desperate for customers and money during the most dire economic stretch of her lifetime but refuses to agree to finish a blowjob like a blowjob and not a hand job (while dishonestly promoting it as a "blowjob finish") for 2 to 2 1/2 times the amount of money the experts in her area get for it (and almost half an average Thai week's wage during normal times working 10 hours a day 6 days a week) without bothering to do her own research on how safe and commonplace it is in her world is quite silly, exceedingly lazy or both.

I was pissed that she had wasted my time and good will waving back, chit-chatting with her as I passed by all those times, commiserating and sympathizing with her painfully sad and forlorn "no customers" laments, adding her to my Line, being awakened at 9am by her urgent call, talking and negotiating with her there and so on when I could have devoted those several precious minutes helping so many other girls who deserved it instead.

Some girls groove to the CIM and some don't. As I wrote in my Samui excursion last week, a deft Hoover of seed is always a keeper in my book, even if she slips away to spit me out later.

But the "pretend BBBJ" that involves more HJ than tonsil tickling is just downright lazy.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2472956]Yes, I do. I've gotten so many BBBJ+CIM from so many girls through the years to think it is a big deal for them to figure it out and do it. Girls in BJ Bars knock them off in 10-15 minutes, pocket only 400-500 baht of the fee, tops, and suffer no long term health risks. Many go-go girls do it better than the supposed experts in the BJ Bars.

A chubby 35+ year old woman who portrays herself as desperate for customers and money during the most dire economic stretch of her lifetime but refuses to agree to finish a blowjob like a blowjob and not a hand job (while dishonestly promoting it as a "blowjob finish") for 2 to 2 1/2 times the amount of money the "experts" in the area get for it without bothering to do her own research on how safe and commonplace it is in her world is quite silly, exceedingly lazy or both.

We're not talking about "wanting" to do it, btw.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2472956]Yes, I do. I've gotten too many BBBJ+CIMs from too many different types of girls through the years to think it is a big deal for them to figure it out and do it. Girls in BJ Bars knock them off in 10-15 minutes, pocket only 400-500 baht of the fee, tops, and suffer no long term health risks. Many go-go girls, non pro dating site and casual meet up girls do it better than the supposed experts in the BJ Bars.

This isn't about "wanting" to do it, btw.

A chubby 35 year old or whatever grown up adult woman, a Bangkok street hooker, who portrays herself as desperate for customers and money during the most dire economic stretch of her lifetime but refuses to agree to finish a blowjob like a blowjob and not a hand job (while dishonestly promoting it as a "blowjob finish") for 2 to 2 1/2 times the amount of money the experts in her area get for it (and almost half an average Thai week's wage during normal times working 10 hours a day 6 days a week) without bothering to do her own research on how safe and commonplace it is in her world is quite silly, exceedingly lazy or both.

I was pissed that she had wasted my time and good will waving back, chit-chatting with her as I passed by all those times, commiserating and sympathizing with her painfully sad and forlorn "no customers" laments, adding her to my Line, being awakened at 9am by her urgent call, talking and negotiating with her there and so on when I could have devoted those several precious minutes helping so many other girls who deserved it instead.[/QUOTE]Not for the first time ET we will have to agree to disagree. Of course there are lots of girls who do CIM and lots who don't. For me the difference is not laziness or silliness it's down to the choice they make. I feel we need to respect the right of girls to choose which services they provide and not call them silly or lazy when they do. I'll meet you halfway though and agree there are lots of silly and lazy girls out there not because of the range of their services but because of indifferent attitudes, unhappy lives, and bad management at the shops they work at.

I do appreciate your contributions very much. Especially as they are down-to-earth and you are one of the few that live in Bkk now and contributing to the site with stories about sessions. Bravo. But this one I did not understand.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2472956]sympathizing with her painfully sad and forlorn "no customers" laments[/QUOTE]It's my experience that girls lamenting and complaining about no customers or customers faults simply are the worst performers.

[QUOTE=DioRetz;2473159]I do appreciate your contributions very much. Especially as they are down-to-earth and you are one of the few that live in Bkk now and contributing to the site with stories about sessions. Bravo. But this one I did not understand.

It's my experience that girls lamenting and complaining about no customers or customers faults simply are the worst performers.[/QUOTE]You're right. At least two of my half dozen or so weekly repeats and regulars not only look great but they keep their pussies sweet and shaved at all times, fuck me bareback and suck better than many real porn stars, swallow with a smile, never make lame excuses, never complain about "no customers" because they know if there is 1 potential customer within sight of them they will convince him to take them at a fair rate IF they are interested in him taking them, seem to be quite happy in their work even during serious economic downturns, own their own car, are building homes in their province and are never short of wads of 1,000 baht notes in their purse.

Two others adamently refuse my offer to transfer 1,000 or so to them in weeks when I am just too busy with other girls to see them for the usual 2,000 LT I give them.

My sympathy for that silly, lazy, older lady on Sukhumit who I'm guessing does virtually none of those things other than the usual and typical bareback fucking for 1-2 of her reliable sponsors who themselves no doubt bareback fuck many other P4P girls before seeing her all the time, only extended as far as agreeing with her that things are tough all over as I passed by. And now only 1 time attempting to relieve her pain by offering to chartiably pay her 1,000 ST - 2,000 LT for providing no more than what those regular repeat girls mentioned above provide for me (less really, since I made no mention of swallowing and did not expect it of her) and for generally the same baht amounts I give them.

And that was despite the fact that I assumed, as you did, that she was probably bad at her chosen job. I guess you could say I was feeling exceptionally generous of spirit at the moment. Probably because I know how lucky I am to be living here.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2472722]But why would you want to reward a self-portrayed "desperate for customers" Thai hooker with an extra tip for being silly or lazy enough to refuse delivering a simple CIM finish BJ for hundreds of baht more [/QUOTE]

You know full well we were talking about BBFS, not a BJ. [I]Maybe[/I] it's fine if both people agree, but you (and your alternate account) are constantly talking about trying to get desperate girls who would normally refuse it to risk their long-term health for your moment of pleasure.

In my book, that's a despicable behavior and sullying the good name of all of us highly respected whoormongers.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;2473357]You know full well we were talking about BBFS, not a BJ. [I]Maybe[/I] it's fine if both people agree, but you (and your alternate account) are constantly talking about trying to get desperate girls who would normally refuse it to risk their long-term health for your moment of pleasure.

In my book, that's a despicable behavior and sullying the good name of all of us highly respected whoormongers.[/QUOTE]I don't share ET's opinion of women generally nor his believing there is little or no health risk to unprotected sex but to be fair not sure I go along with depicting him as taking advantage of desperate women into having BBFS with him. Actually I have always felt assuming his regular testing for STD's, having had a vasectomy etc claims are true and no reason to doubt they are that it he himself who is risking his health rather than his companion.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;2473357]You know full well we were talking about BBFS, not a BJ. [I]Maybe[/I] it's fine if both people agree, but you (and your alternate account) are constantly talking about trying to get desperate girls who would normally refuse it to risk their long-term health for your moment of pleasure.

In my book, that's a despicable behavior and sullying the good name of all of us highly respected whoormongers.[/QUOTE]You know full well what I proposed was EITHER BBFS OR BBBJ-CIM and you decided to drop the BBBJ+CIM part out of your quite of me in order to make a point about rewarding her for something I did not corner into choosing.

Also, I have never had an alternate account here or on any other message board.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;2473357] (and your alternate account)[/QUOTE]I am not sure whether you deemed me to be an alternate account. Well, I am not. Even more so. I do not have paid sex without a condom. It might happen that the condom breaks. That happened a few times. After that I get tested. I don't agree with you about 'desperate girls accepting BBFS'. Actually this was offered to me in FKK land in December 2018. I declined. Lost a good sex partner by doing so. So, just the other way round from what you suppose. I do value your concern for the health of the girls. I do not agree with ET having BBFS but that is his choice and that of the girl. And I wonder whether the girls are really against it. In Thailand my condom broke on three occasions. On all three occasions the girl accepted this as 'a matter of fact' while I was worried a lot. Beyond that. Comparing FKK land and Thailand one must say that girls in FKK land have a lot more sessions and in Thailand girls only have one session a day or less. So, the risk of spreading diseases is much smaller. But I do value ET's stories and wouldn't like to do without them on this forum. And I really wonder whether you read the tone and intent of his stories well. Just read some of them again. Do you really think he is the kind of person that would exploit another account. Come on!

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2472956]Yes, I do. I've gotten too many BBBJ+CIMs from too many different types of girls through the years to think it is a big deal for them to figure it out and do it. Girls in BJ Bars knock them off in 10-15 minutes, pocket only 400-500 baht of the fee, tops, and suffer no long term health risks. Many go-go girls, non pro dating site and casual meet up girls do it better than the supposed experts in the BJ Bars.

This isn't about "wanting" to do it, btw.

A chubby 35 year old or whatever grown up adult woman, a Bangkok street hooker, who portrays herself as desperate for customers and money during the most dire economic stretch of her lifetime but refuses to agree to finish a blowjob like a blowjob and not a hand job (while dishonestly promoting it as a "blowjob finish") for 2 to 2 1/2 times the amount of money the experts in her area get for it (and almost half an average Thai week's wage during normal times working 10 hours a day 6 days a week) without bothering to do her own research on how safe and commonplace it is in her world is quite silly, exceedingly lazy or both.

I was pissed that she had wasted my time and good will waving back, chit-chatting with her as I passed by all those times, commiserating and sympathizing with her painfully sad and forlorn "no customers" laments, adding her to my Line, being awakened at 9am by her urgent call, talking and negotiating with her there and so on when I could have devoted those several precious minutes helping so many other girls who deserved it instead.[/QUOTE]ET,

Let's call it what it is, you are not providing charity or helping. It's a business transaction that requires negotiation and agreement from both parties.

What you want in the transaction, she does not want to provide for the price given.

The tone of your posts irk me. You believe you are some high and mighty generous man who helps these women and provide them charity. In reality, you are an old man who no woman on earth under 40 would be willingly have anything to do with you. You should be more grateful and thank your lucky stars that there are poor women who are willing to let you touch them for a fee. I'm not even talking about BBFS or CIM, you should be on your knees praying to your god day and night that any woman let you do that.

Just giving you a reality check. Be more grateful and empathetic.

I just back from Cowboy, the street is not very active, still girls outside but nothing much happening. I went to Afterskool for few reason: I wanted to maybe have a BJ or at least HJ while being sit on the sofa or bar, and last time I went there (long time like over 2 years ago) I took a girl name Fa that was quite nice, but they had a girl with an amazingly round ass that I keep in mind since. So I step in, 3 other guy there, 1 at the end of the bar with 2 girls taking care of him, 1 at the*bar with a beauty, 1 near to the entrance with a girl drinking. I sit just after the door as 2 girls quite cute are there, then another one from outside come and stay front of us. I explained her*that I don't need to be with 3 girls, but she just look at me, smile and stay. Have a short talk with the 2 girls sit on each side of me, order my drink, then after a while of course one ask me if I can offer them a drink, pointing her friend on the other side of me and herself, but never the third one which I didn't talk with, told her that I don't need 3 girls, and so on. But then, this actual girl go to the bar and come back with 3 tequila. Got upset and ask why this, for which the answer was pissing me off "bc three lady with you". So I repeated that I mentioned I don't need 3 with me, and that one of them pointed the 2 on the sofa. The infamous "ooooh so sorry" came out and sound like "whatever you can say, we don't care". So I paid that bill and told them not being surprise to be empty. When I just pass the door those one start laughing about the situation, so I came back in and confront them on how it is not nice to act like this bc in this case who ever come and stay front of me when she asked for drinks could also be consider to have one without my approval. They were looking at me like an Alien coming from Crazyland. Going to leave and I see one of the mamasan outside, so I start to explain her, but she just didn't give a shit pointing me the "manager". I could have leave just like this, but I was annoyed by this shit attitude taking everything for granted, so I talked to the manager and explained him all in details. The guy looked at me and literally replied "I don't know who say right and correct,*I was not there". So I tried to explain him about how business work, that he cannot wonder why the bar is empty if his girls act like this bc of Covid making business hard and they don't have much customer everyday. But still he didn't give a shit, keep smiling and nothing else, even not telling me "sorry about that, I will speak with them bc this is not how it should happen", no he said nothing except repeating his shitty excuse. So I left and will never go back to that place, and don't recommend it at all! My point is not on being charge 140 thb, my point is I pay for what I consume and don't try to overcharge or take advantage of me. If this didn't happen, I would have stay longer and offer them more drinks, plus certainly consumed with one of the girls. At the end, they only got 510 thb from instead of the possible 2000. That for me represent very well about how Thai handle business, without common sense and thinking on the very short time. Oh and by the way for LD, 140 thb the tequila, 240th* tequilla coca. Wtf, 8 usd for a fuckin 3 CL of*cheap tequila and bit of coca, are they going to realize that they need to take action and reduce their pricing or just think that they loose money during months so charge it more to "get back in business".

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;2473357]You know full well we were talking about BBFS, not a BJ. [I]Maybe[/I] it's fine if both people agree, but you (and your alternate account) are constantly talking about trying to get desperate girls who would normally refuse it to risk their long-term health for your moment of pleasure.

In my book, that's a despicable behavior and sullying the good name of all of us highly respected whoormongers.[/QUOTE]"People" like you are everything that is wrong with this hobby, why don't you take your feminist agenda somewhere else.

Anyone that pays to have sex with a condom is a joke, just do us all a favor stay home and watch some porn online.

Sex with a condom is not real sex it is more akin to POV or VR porn, stay home and the world we be a much better place.

I for one will greatly appreciate it.

[QUOTE=TomSam;2473659]ET,

Let's call it what it is, you are not providing charity or helping. It's a business transaction that requires negotiation and agreement from both parties.

What you want in the transaction, she does not want to provide for the price given.

The tone of your posts irk me. You believe you are some high and mighty generous man who helps these women and provide them charity. In reality, you are an old man who no woman on earth under 40 would be willingly have anything to do with you. You should be more grateful and thank your lucky stars that there are poor women who are willing to let you touch them for a fee. I'm not even talking about BBFS or CIM, you should be on your knees praying to your god day and night that any woman let you do that.

Just giving you a reality check. Be more grateful and empathetic.[/QUOTE]I for one will say ET is a good looking guy, he could pass for his 40's easily, I have met his attractive 20 yo GF and have mongered with him, those that are jealous, are just bitter losers.

Like the line from the movie, "they hate us, because they ain't us" ET LOL.

He works out and jogs 7 days a week, I would post his foto if the admin would let me with his permission of course.

Just to shut up all you haters LOL.

I doubt there is a more successful monger in all of Asia and he is a white guy almost 70 yo and doesn't overpay them to touch his peepee with a fullbody condom on LOL.

Losers will be losers ET.

Keep up it up, you're doing Gods work.

[QUOTE=MadMax33;2473704]I just back from Cowboy, the street is not very active, still girls outside but nothing much happening. I went to Afterskool for few reason: I wanted to maybe have a BJ or at least HJ while being sit on the sofa or bar, and last time I went there (long time like over 2 years ago) I took a girl name Fa that was quite nice, but they had a girl with an amazingly round ass that I keep in mind since. So I step in, 3 other guy there, 1 at the end of the bar with 2 girls taking care of him, 1 at the*bar with a beauty, 1 near to the entrance with a girl drinking. I sit just after the door as 2 girls quite cute are there, then another one from outside come and stay front of us. I explained her*that I don't need to be with 3 girls, but she just look at me, smile and stay. Have a short talk with the 2 girls sit on each side of me, order my drink, then after a while of course one ask me if I can offer them a drink, pointing her friend on the other side of me and herself, but never the third one which I didn't talk with, told her that I don't need 3 girls, and so on. But then, this actual girl go to the bar and come back with 3 tequila. Got upset and ask why this, for which the answer was pissing me off "bc three lady with you". So I repeated that I mentioned I don't need 3 with me, and that one of them pointed the 2 on the sofa. The infamous "ooooh so sorry" came out and sound like "whatever you can say, we don't care". So I paid that bill and told them not being surprise to be empty. When I just pass the door those one start laughing about the situation, so I came back in and confront them on how it is not nice to act like this bc in this case who ever come and stay front of me when she asked for drinks could also be consider to have one without my approval. They were looking at me like an Alien coming from Crazyland. Going to leave and I see one of the mamasan outside, so I start to explain her, but she just didn't give a shit pointing me the "manager". I could have leave just like this, but I was annoyed by this shit attitude taking everything for granted, so I talked to the manager and explained him all in details..[/QUOTE]Thank you for this review. I despise businesses that pressure and scam customers. They have lost at least another potential customer.

[QUOTE=TomSam;2473659]ET,

Let's call it what it is, you are not providing charity or helping. It's a business transaction that requires negotiation and agreement from both parties.

What you want in the transaction, she does not want to provide for the price given.

The tone of your posts irk me. You believe you are some high and mighty generous man who helps these women and provide them charity. In reality, you are an old man who no woman on earth under 40 would be willingly have anything to do with you. You should be more grateful and thank your lucky stars that there are poor women who are willing to let you touch them for a fee. I'm not even talking about BBFS or CIM, you should be on your knees praying to your god day and night that any woman let you do that.

Just giving you a reality check. Be more grateful and empathetic.[/QUOTE]On the issue of BBFS and in keeping with Crocodilexp's comment about "maybe it's fine if both people agree", how about if that is done in the course of the classic "go with the flow and see what happens in the room" approach as it is typically depicted, reported and even recommended to me here and elsewhere? For instance, you meet a girl in a bar, she sits with you for an extended period of time, the chemistry seems great, lot's of physical contact and cuddling, there is no mention of condoms in the bar or later in the room, at most she politely places a condom on the table but nobody reaches for it as things progress, nature just takes its course, she more or less passionately goes with it and with you in bed and BBFS happens.

Serious question for you, Crocodilexp, Franciscass and any others who would like to chime in: Is that an ok way to go about it in your mind, your preferred or perhaps the only times you have engaged in BBFS with the ladies you take?

[QUOTE=MadMax33;2473704]I just back from Cowboy, the street is not very active, still girls outside but nothing much happening. I went to Afterskool for few reason: I wanted to maybe have a BJ or at least HJ while being sit on the sofa or bar, and last time I went there (long time like over 2 years ago) I took a girl name Fa that was quite nice, but they had a girl with an amazingly round ass that I keep in mind since. So I step in, 3 other guy there, 1 at the end of the bar with 2 girls taking care of him, 1 at the*bar with a beauty, 1 near to the entrance with a girl drinking. I sit just after the door as 2 girls quite cute are there, then another one from outside come and stay front of us. I explained her*that I don't need to be with 3 girls, but she just look at me, smile and stay.
...[/QUOTE]Afterskool has been doing that gang up Lady Drink scam as far back as I can remember. Other bars allow or promote it, too. But it seems to be Afterskool's primary business model. Sorry you had that happen to you. It happened to me, too, the rare times I have gone in there. And thanks for taking a stand and making the effort to complain about it to the management and explain how they've lost a customer because of it. It probably won't change anything with them. But, as they say, it is better to light one candle than live in total darkness.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2473767]I for one will say ET is a good looking guy, he could pass for his 40's easily, I have met his attractive 20 yo GF and have mongered with him, those that are jealous, are just bitter losers.

Like the line from the movie, "they hate us, because they ain't us" ET LOL.

He works out and jogs 7 days a week, I would post his foto if the admin would let me with his permission of course.

Just to shut up all you haters LOL.

I doubt there is a more successful monger in all of Asia and he is a white guy almost 70 yo and doesn't overpay them to touch his peepee with a fullbody condom on LOL.

Losers will be losers ET.

Keep up it up, you're doing Gods work.[/QUOTE]LOL. Thanks much for the comments. Really. But I should point out that my mention of BBFS in these threads is never meant to promote or recommend BBFS to anyone else ("God's work"?). No more than a mention of Anal+, DFK, Threesomes, LT vs ST, GFE, PSE, COF, Rimming, breast implants, or whatever else floats a punter's boat mentioned here is promoting and recommending those things. It is simply one of the two options I generally require in order to justify paying a girl for sex (the other being BBBJ+CIM). Same as some of those other things are required by other punters. And I get enough comments and PMs from folks here and tons of agreement about it among the expats and visitors I meet in Thailand all the time to know I am not alone in that by a long shot. Consequently, it pretty much needs to be included in many reports or comments I make in order to put the proper context into what happened or didn't happen when I have or choose not to have a P4P session.

That being the case, my experiences and results would not be the same nor should anyone be misled into thinking they ought to be the same as someone who, for example, is fine with accepting the basic standard "lick around the edges, if that, slip on a condom and proceed" offering in the Thai P4P scene with nothing more asked for or required in order for the girl to accept ME as her customer instead of all the other customers she could be choosing instead. Which is always her option even during these extraordinary times. And that's because I make sure my offer is made under conditions and when she does have plenty of time and opportunity to choose another customer if she wants.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;2473357]sullying the good name of all of us highly respected whoormongers.[/QUOTE]LOL.

Funny how guys convince themselves fucking girls 40 to 50 years younger is all fine and good and everybody is happy but how dare you entice a girl to do something she doesn't really want to do. Shame on you ET.

LOL!

p.s. Not aimed at Croc but at the discussion in general

[QUOTE=LuckyNuts;2473819]LOL.

Funny how guys convince themselves fucking girls 40 to 50 years younger is all fine and good and everybody is happy but how dare you entice a girl to do something she doesn't really want to do. Shame on you ET.

LOL![/QUOTE]LOL. In all fairness, I assumed Crocodilexp was just sprinkling a little humor into what was otherwise a harsh reply to me with that part of it. At least, I appreciated it on that assumption.

[QUOTE=TomSam;2473659]ET,

Let's call it what it is, you are not providing charity or helping. It's a business transaction that requires negotiation and agreement from both parties.

...in talking about BBFS or CIM, you should be on your knees praying to your god day and night that any woman let you do that.

Just giving you a reality check. Be more grateful and empathetic.[/QUOTE]I don't see it that way, at all. It is a business transaction as you said. ET was negotiating for the service he wants, BBFS / CIP, or BJ with CIM. The WG can always say no to ET, and look for another customer who is not too demanding.

And why should he be on his knees praying? What's the purpose of a women in this world? To satisfy the needs of men, among other things, as opposed to holding him hostage, I. E. Giving him sex only if he agrees to her arbitrary demands.

[QUOTE=Lefeu;2473823]What's the purpose of a women in this world? To satisfy the needs of men, among other things, as opposed to holding him hostage, I. E. Giving him sex only if he agrees to her arbitrary demands.[/QUOTE]Wow misogyny is alive and well.

CIM or BBFS are arbitrary demands, really. I get the demand bit although I would classify it as a requirement but arbitrary no. It is not a random whim when a girl decides she does not want to engage in practices that could endanger her health. It is her right to do so and she is being more than smart even knowing it costs her money.

I do agree ET is an unusually healthy active monger with an appetite that I am more than envious of. He doesn't hide what he wants, takes all criticism in his stride and while I radically disagree with him on a number of issues he argues his perspective with restraint and civility.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2473716].........Anyone that pays to have sex with a condom is a joke, just do us all a favor stay home and watch some porn online.

Sex with a condom is not real sex it is more akin to POV or VR porn, stay home and the world we be a much better place.

I for one will greatly appreciate it.[/QUOTE]Fortunately for me I use the Trojan Magnum Bareskin which feels almost like going bare back and there are even thinner condoms available. I am not foolish enough to believe that posters who get STDs would report that fact on this forum, 8 years of reading ISG has shown that they would not. The peace of mind of using a condom is priceless and makes the experience all round much more enjoyable for me.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2473934]Fortunately for me I use the Trojan Magnum Bareskin which feels almost like going bare back ... [/QUOTE]I use the exact same condoms, but wouldn't describe them feeling "almost like going bare back. " Even with a good load of silicone lube on the inside, there is a lot lost for me. I can pop once per day using the condom, but it doesn't work for me a second time on the same day.

One problem I've had is many Thai girls insist the lube cannot go on the inside. With limited communication ability it is sometimes impossible to get the message to her that I may never finish without it. That is one advantage of Doki Doki, the lube is everywhere before the condom goes on.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2473934]Fortunately for me I use the Trojan Magnum Bareskin which feels almost like going bare back and there are even thinner condoms available. I am not foolish enough to believe that posters who get STDs would report that fact on this forum, 8 years of reading ISG has shown that they would not. The peace of mind of using a condom is priceless and makes the experience all round much more enjoyable for me.[/QUOTE]Do you ever kiss hookers, or DATY, or BBBJ.

You can get STDS that way I hope you know.

I've never used a condom in BKK and never picked up a STD there either.

But I did get an STD in Tijuana.

I have sex to exchange fluids, that's the best part, I don't care how thin the condom is.

If I'm cumming into a plastic bag, I would rather stay home and jack off to porn.

Or even worse get a GF and not use a condom, hookers using condoms is a feminist plot to degrade the.

Pleasure men get from sex, and therefore destroy the demand.

Look at these feminist NGOs around the world.

They all promote condoms, step #1 to destroy mongering.

I need to fill their pussies throats and anus with my homemade German hot sauce.

Anything else is an affront to nature.

I'm not flying to Asia to cum into a plastic bag, no thanks not even for free.

I can get more satisfaction from my hand.

Regards to charity.

I sent $5,000 to my Kalasin GF I met at Baccarat to buy a Grade A Buffalo.

When I asked for a photograph she said he ran away before they could iPhone photo him.

Now she wants another $5,000. She said she won't make the same mistake twice. LOL.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2473947]Do you ever kiss hookers, or DATY, or BBBJ.

You can get STDS that way I hope you know.

I've never used a condom in BKK and never picked up a STD there either.

But I did get an STD in Tijuana.

I have sex to exchange fluids, that's the best part, I don't care how thin the condom is.

If I'm cumming into a plastic bag, I would rather stay home and jack off to porn.

Or even worse get a GF and not use a condom, hookers using condoms is a feminist plot to degrade the.

Pleasure men get from sex, and therefore destroy the demand.

Look at these feminist NGOs around the world.

They all promote condoms, step #1 to destroy mongering.

I need to fill their pussies throats and anus with my homemade German hot sauce.

Anything else is an affront to nature.

I'm not flying to Asia to cum into a plastic bag, no thanks not even for free.

I can get more satisfaction from my hand.[/QUOTE]I just read this: "A Chinese company has created the world's thinnest latex condom, snagging the Guinness World Record for the barely-there rubber. The so-called Aoni condom measures just 0. 0014 inches (0. 036 millimeters) thick, beating the previous record-holder, Okamoto of Japan.". I think I will give this a try and would recommend it to you. If you are not interested, well, continue using your hand.

[QUOTE=DannyDuck;2473962]Regards to charity.

I sent $5,000 to my Kalasin GF I met at Baccarat to buy a Grade A Buffalo.

When I asked for a photograph she said he ran away before they could iPhone photo him.

Now she wants another $5,000. She said she won't make the same mistake twice. LOL.[/QUOTE]$5,000 usd? If so I'd split that up but pretty sure you're talking baht.

[QUOTE=HorseTrader;2473946]I use the exact same condoms, but wouldn't describe them feeling "almost like going bare back. " Even with a good load of silicone lube on the inside, there is a lot lost for me. I can pop once per day using the condom, but it doesn't work for me a second time on the same day.

One problem I've had is many Thai girls insist the lube cannot go on the inside. With limited communication ability it is sometimes impossible to get the message to her that I may never finish without it. That is one advantage of Doki Doki, the lube is everywhere before the condom goes on.[/QUOTE]I've never had a gal complain about my putting lube inside s condom. Sometime they ask why and I reply in Thai, because it keeps the condom from breaking. Never had an issues after telling them that.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2473934]Fortunately for me I use the Trojan Magnum Bareskin which feels almost like going bare back and there are even thinner condoms available. I am not foolish enough to believe that posters who get STDs would report that fact on this forum, 8 years of reading ISG has shown that they would not. The peace of mind of using a condom is priceless and makes the experience all round much more enjoyable for me.[/QUOTE]I wish those were available here in LOS.

[QUOTE=DannyDuck;2473962]Regards to charity.

I sent $5,000 to my Kalasin GF I met at Baccarat to buy a Grade A Buffalo.

When I asked for a photograph she said he ran away before they could iPhone photo him.

Now she wants another $5,000. She said she won't make the same mistake twice. LOL.[/QUOTE]I understand her frustration. Things like that happen to me 5-6 times a day.

Another problem is this "long term health issues" topic I have been reading about for years. No doubt there are rare exceptions, but I'm not sure I have ever met a P4P girl who has long term health issues caused by having sex, bareback or otherwise, with me or someone else. Many of the hundreds of girls I have had sex with in Thailand still have my Line contact and could easily follow up to tell me about any long term health issues they have lived with or encountered years later after having had sex with me or someone else. But they don't. And it certainly wouldn't be like them to keep news of their ailments to themselves.

However, it turns out having sex with me, especially if it is more than once, most definitely often DOES cause "long term health issues." But not with the girl who fucked and sucked me. Only with her mom, dad, grandma, grandpa, brothers, sisters, kids, nieces, nephews, uncles, aunts, cousins, etc. It is amazing how quickly and often the relatives of the girls I fuck or who suck me come down with some "long term health issues" that puts them in the hospital with nothing but a working cellphone to take photos of themselves in their hospital bed and no way to pay for their newly acquired ailment.

With the girls I fuck and get sucked by, it seems the only ailments they ever come up with are those that look a lot like public domain pics of some unidentified person with a bandage on their arm or leg for something no one can really explain. And then it gets better with no scarring or evidence that it ever happened hours after I send them money to take care of it.

[QUOTE=DannyDuck;2473962]Regards to charity.

I sent $5,000 to my Kalasin GF I met at Baccarat to buy a Grade A Buffalo.

When I asked for a photograph she said he ran away before they could iPhone photo him.

Now she wants another $5,000. She said she won't make the same mistake twice. LOL.[/QUOTE]Hopefully you won't make the same mistake twice either.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2474055]Many of the hundreds of girls I have had sex with in Thailand still have my Line contact and could easily follow up to tell me about any long term health issues they have lived with or encountered years later after having had sex with me or someone else. But they don't. And it certainly wouldn't be like them to keep news of their ailments to themselves.[/QUOTE]It is only a single case but for a fact a cousin of mine contracted chlamydia while on holiday here.

A simple google search on Thailand and STD'S reveals the following sample the reality of unprotected sex and please spare me it's all fake news argument.

Thailand has one of the highest rates of HIV in Asia (estimated in 2016 at 450,000 out of a population of 70 million), with 1.1% adult HIV prevalence- this highest in the AEC region. HIV mostly affects sex workers, men who have sex with men, transgender people, and people who inject drugs.

Thailand, HIV prevalence is higher among male sex workers than female. In 2018, of the estimated 145,000 sex workers in the country, HIV prevalence was approximately 4% among male sex workers and 1.7% among female sex workers. However, urban settings have shown to yield exceptionally high HIV prevalence among female sex workers, as high as 20% in Bangkok.

In 2018, 6, 400 people in Thailand became infected with HIV. Roughly two-thirds were men (4,400 infections among adult men, compared to 1,900 infections among adult women.

In 2018, it was estimated that around 40% of new infections occurred among men who have sex with men and transgender women, 10% among sex workers and their clients, and 11% among people who inject drugs. Around 29% of new infections are estimated to occur from spousal transmission, 21% of these from husbands to wives.

The fear that syphilis is said to have made a comeback is apparently not just public paranoia. Infectious medicine specialist Dr Thanason Thummakul acknowledged that the occurrence is indeed on the rise. Based on Bangrak STIs Centre's figures, syphilis cases have reportedly increased significantly during the past four years. Per 100,000 population, only around 2-3 infected cases were reported in 2009. Fast-forward to 2018, Thailand saw almost 12 syphilis patients per 100,000 population.

"A sharp rise is mainly a result of unprotected sex," said Dr Thanason. "Although syphilis can be found in people of all ages, now a very large number of the cases are diagnosed among teens and men who have sex with men."

[QUOTE=Turgid;2473934]I am not foolish enough to believe that posters who get STDs would report that fact on this forum, 8 years of reading ISG has shown that they would not. The peace of mind of using a condom is priceless and makes the experience all round much more enjoyable for me.[/QUOTE]Forum members catching an std has been discussed on the forum, but these were mostly stories of STD caught after BBBJ.

The forum being anonymous, I don't see a reason for a member to not talk about it if the discussion pops up.

I occasionally did some girls bareback and never caught an STD that I was aware of, except one time after receiving a BBBJ from a girl that I was already meeting for the last 2 weeks prior the infection.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2474043]I've never had a gal complain about my putting lube inside s condom. Sometime they ask why and I reply in Thai, because it keeps the condom from breaking. Never had an issues after telling them that.[/QUOTE]You speaking Thai is an advantage over me. If she has good English skills, I explain that I need lube inside the condom for the way it feels to me. That doesn't work with girls with limited English.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2474074]It is only a single case but for a fact a cousin of mine contracted chlamydia while on holiday here.

...[/QUOTE]Not to dismiss your cousin's plight, but is that the closest to a "long term health issue" anecdote due to P4P sex with which you are personally familiar? Not sure if that has much to do with being a sex worker or the customer for one. Isn't chlamydia pretty much all over the place, transmittable through oral sex and even if you wear a condom? And I think it is curable, not destined to be a long term health issue after you get treated for it.

In a related matter, I stopped in at a newly named go-go bar called "Random" on the second level of Nana Plaza. As I recall, it used to be Rainbow 3 Bar. The fat mamasan that nobody liked when she worked at Crazy House is the mamasan there.

A rather rough looking but kind of cute little blondish go-go girl was lobbying very hard for my attention as soon as I walked in. Little wonder since I was the only customer in the place at around 10pm as was the case with a couple of other go-go bars I stopped in tonight. Monday night. The venue was like a ghost town. Maybe 20 customers in the whole Plaza with several go-go bars open, each with stages full of girls. No more than two customers in any bar except maybe Billboard and Butterflies.

I thought she was kind of cute so I called her over for a Lady Drink, wound up buying her two because she kept rubbing her heavily tattooed little body (butt) all over my lap and chest and was really into DFK me every time she turned to face me. It finally started to work for me even though her overly tattooed, demonstrably "slutty" look and demeanor is not really my thing.

Anyway, after my girl's second Lady Drink was brought to our little table the annoying mamasan came over to propose a barfine deal between the girl and me. I politely waved her off but not before she annoyingly interjected with "1,000 baht barfine, 3,000 for the girl if Short Time, 5,000 if Long Time." uh-huh. A few minutes more of butt rubbing and DFK from the girl, then I privately offered to pay the barfine and give her 3,000 baht for LT, boom boom no condom. Her answer was, "No, cannot. Must use condom because Covid."

I wasn't sure I heard her right so I asked her to repeat it, "Because of Covid?"

"Yes", she said, "I afraid of Covid. Must use condom."

Well, folks, here we go.

I thanked her for her time, paid my bill and left.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2474074]...

Thailand, HIV prevalence is higher among male sex workers than female. In 2018, of the estimated 145,000 sex workers in the country, HIV prevalence was approximately 4% among male sex workers and 1.7% among female sex workers. However, urban settings have shown to yield exceptionally high HIV prevalence among female sex workers, [b]as high as 20% in Bangkok.[/b]
...[/QUOTE]Whenever I see that alarming "20%" figure for the percentage of female sex workers in Bangkok who tested positive for HIV, I have to at least mention that, as I read about this "survey" in more detail, it seemed to me it was definitely NOT from a random sampling of go-go dancers, freelancers, massage shop girls, BJ Bar girls, etc as one might erroneously conclude. It was decidedly NOT that kind of survey and was instead the kind of survey that is routinely dismissed among serious research and polling services. As I recall, some HIV-positive patients in a clinic were paid and given free treatment if they then recruited other potentially HIV-positive subjects to enter the study who would in turn also be paid money for their participation and given free treatment.

As one might expect, the deputized "recruiters" did not walk around randomly tapping on the shoulders of hookers in the Nana Plaza and Soi Cowboy bars, on the street and in the massage shops to come in to be tested. No, they went to the people they already knew in their circle, perhaps not even hookers at all but just junkies willing to say they were hookers (perhaps, being junkies, they did trade sex for money somewhere at some point) and, therefore, the "researchers" for the study were force fed a deck of players highly stacked in favor of being HIV-positive in ways that have nothing to do with meeting any one of us in a bar or massage shop we have ever entered.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2474025]I just read this: "A Chinese company has created the world's thinnest latex condom, snagging the Guinness World Record for the barely-there rubber. The so-called Aoni condom measures just 0. 0014 inches (0. 036 millimeters) thick, beating the previous record-holder, Okamoto of Japan.". I think I will give this a try and would recommend it to you. If you are not interested, well, continue using your hand.[/QUOTE]But? If I did I most certainly wouldn't buy them from China, I don't want anything that was "made" there.

If you would buy condoms made there, would you buy cancer meds?

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2474237]Whenever I see that alarming "20%" figure for the percentage of female sex workers in Bangkok who tested positive for HIV, I have to at least mention that, as I read about this "survey" in more detail, it seemed to me it was definitely NOT from a random sampling of go-go dancers, freelancers, massage shop girls, BJ Bar girls, etc as one might erroneously conclude. It was decidedly NOT that kind of survey and was instead the kind of survey that is routinely dismissed among serious research and polling services. As I recall, some HIV-positive patients in a clinic were paid and given free treatment if they then recruited other potentially HIV-positive subjects to enter the study who would in turn also be paid money for their participation and given free treatment.

As one might expect, the deputized "recruiters" did not walk around randomly tapping on the shoulders of hookers in the Nana Plaza and Soi Cowboy bars, on the street and in the massage shops to come in to be tested. No, they went to the people they already knew in their circle, perhaps not even hookers at all but just junkies willing to say they were hookers (perhaps, being junkies, they did trade sex for money somewhere at some point) and, therefore, the "researchers" for the study were force fed a deck of players highly stacked in favor of being HIV-positive in ways that have nothing to do with meeting any one of us in a bar or massage shop we have ever entered.[/QUOTE]Not surprising ET you cherry pick from what were a number of articles on the realty of STD's in Thailand.

You selected a particular stat of 20% infection in Bangkok and debunked it by a less than convincing questioning of the sampling used. Maybe you are partly correct, who knows, anyway that was just one stat out of many.

What I would simply suggest if anybody wants to what find what the facts are, what the science says, take 30 minutes or so and google "Thailand and STD'S" . Yes the internet is full of bullshit and both sides of any argument from climate change deniers to Elvis is alive believers will find sites that support them. But if one puts aside personal prejudices looks at the data, looks at the source of that data, double checks that source for validity, I believe no reasonable person can come away with a mindset that unprotected sex in Thailand is just fine.

That said I'm not moralizing. If somebody wants BBFS, that's their prerogative and good luck to them when they find ladies willing to oblige.

What I find just plain wrong is saying its ok to entice women who initially object to doing it by offering them extra money. Sure, yes they can say no, nobody has a gun to their head but they say no in the beginning for a reason, because they believe it can be dangerous to their health. So why would you want to take that away from them.

Move on leave them alone, there are lots of other girls who will give you what you need. Infinitely more objectionable, in fact despicable are those who feel its ok to remove the condom during sex without her consent.

From the CDC.

Chlamydia is a common sexually transmitted disease (STD) caused by infection with Chlamydia trachomatis. It can cause cervicitis in women and urethritis and proctitis in both men and women. Chlamydial infections in women can lead to serious consequences including pelvic inflammatory disease (PID), tubal factor infertility, ectopic pregnancy, and chronic pelvic pain.

Easily curable with antibiotics but hardly harmless.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2474290]But? If I did I most certainly wouldn't buy them from China, I don't want anything that was "made" there.

If you would buy condoms made there, would you buy cancer meds?[/QUOTE]I understand your sentiment about China " made in China " certainly when it comes to Condom not sure what the big deal about them but to each his own. I was raised on Trojans and that is what I used never had one break on me I go to Costco get me the largest box with Lube my rate I still have plenty left even after expiration date I'm no Mr. E or M. P.

If you dig and it isn't hard then you better start with your Cell Phone majority of the parts which run the phone the metal is all from China to make those so call chips. Until a few years back American Hospital was ordering unknowingly from China cancer medicine until they discover many were fake couldn't tell them from the real stuff. Then let's not forget all the dog food or the painted lead on all the toys being sold at Toy are Us, or all the sheetrock sold throughout the USA The list goes on and on just ask Ikea or Walmart?

Years ago China knew this day was coming so many of their factories have been moved out of China since the so-called cheap labor they have is no longer cheap so they have also moved many of the factories to other countries for even cheaper labor. Even before the trade war China, for example, contracted with a number of Thai companies to ship products to Thailand repackage as made in Thailand then ship to the USA It is only recently America is finding this out.

It is taken 30 plus years for China to do what it has been doing it will take just as long to turn it around but meantime check you boxers see where those Fruit of Looms are made?

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2474370]Not surprising ET you cherry pick from what were a number of articles on the realty of STD's in Thailand.

You selected a particular stat of 20% infection in Bangkok and debunked it by a less than convincing questioning of the sampling used. Maybe you are partly correct, who knows, anyway that was just one stat out of many.

What I would simply suggest if anybody wants to what find what the facts are, what the science says, take 30 minutes or so and google "Thailand and STD'S" . Yes the internet is full of bullshit and both sides of any argument from climate change deniers to Elvis is alive believers will find sites that support them. But if one puts aside personal prejudices looks at the data, looks at the source of that data, double checks that source for validity, I believe no reasonable person can come away with a mindset that unprotected sex in Thailand is just fine.

That said I'm not moralizing. If somebody wants BBFS, that's their prerogative and good luck to them when they find ladies willing to oblige.

What I find just plain wrong is saying its ok to entice women who initially object to doing it by offering them extra money. Sure, yes they can say no, nobody has a gun to their head but they say no in the beginning for a reason, because they believe it can be dangerous to their health. So why would you want to take that away from them.

Move on leave them alone, there are lots of other girls who will give you what you need. Infinitely more objectionable, in fact despicable are those who feel its ok to remove the condom during sex without her consent.

From the CDC.

Chlamydia is a common sexually transmitted disease (STD) caused by infection with Chlamydia trachomatis. It can cause cervicitis in women and urethritis and proctitis in both men and women. Chlamydial infections in women can lead to serious consequences including pelvic inflammatory disease (PID), tubal factor infertility, ectopic pregnancy, and chronic pelvic pain.

Easily curable with antibiotics but hardly harmless.[/QUOTE]I picked that stat because it is a ridiculouly unbelievable percentage if anyone is misled into thinking they must be talking about "20%" of the Nana, Soi Cowboy, Patpong and lower Sukhumvit female P4P workers, go-go girls, beer bar girls, massage shop girls, freelancers, etc turning up HIV-Positive in a recent random sampling survey. Outrageous. And irresponsible of you to just put it out there as apparent fact and then to further dismiss someone who justifiably questions it.

As far as we know, what you quoted (supposedly from 2018) was still working on that decidedly NOT random sampling survey taken from 2007:

[b]Unexpectedly high HIV prevalence among female sex workers in Bangkok, Thailand in a respondent-driven sampling survey.[/b]
[URL]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4935540/[/URL]

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2474290]But? If I did I most certainly wouldn't buy them from China, I don't want anything that was "made" there.

would you buy cancer meds?[/QUOTE]Like 70 to 80% of the active principles used in medecine from western countries are produced in China & India.

China sells all kinds of quality goods. If you're going to negociate the price to the lowest and don't spend a dollar on quality controle don't expect your product to be of quality, that's for sure.

So wether you like it or know it, yes its likely your medecine have a link with China.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2474412]I picked that stat because it is a ridiculouly unbelievable percentage if anyone is misled into thinking they must be talking about "20%" of the Nana, Soi Cowboy, Patpong and lower Sukhumvit female P4P workers, go-go girls, beer bar girls, massage shop girls, freelancers, etc turning up HIV-Positive in a recent random sampling survey. Outrageous. And irresponsible of you to just put it out there as apparent fact and then to further dismiss someone who justifiably questions it.

As far as we know, what you quoted (supposedly from 2018) was still working on that decidedly NOT random sampling survey taken from 2007:

[b]Unexpectedly high HIV prevalence among female sex workers in Bangkok, Thailand in a respondent-driven sampling survey.[/b]
[URL]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4935540/[/URL][/QUOTE]ET no need to get so upset. My apologizes if I inadvertently did so.

One possibly unreliable stat does not mean all the reports on the subject are flawed.

As I suggested, anybody who is interested should read up on STD'S and Thailand and make up their own mind.

For me the balance of the research indicates there is risk associated with unprotected sex in Thailand.

Whatever that risk is can be argued and working girls and their customers can make choices as they see fit.

However it is grossly irresponsible to keep suggesting it doesn't exist and that working girls should provide BBFS as a matter of course.

More irresponsible still that its OK to use what is essentially bribery to get them to overlook those risks when they first refuse to do so and finally totally reprehensible to denigrate them when they don't change their mind because they should know their only use on this earth is to serve the whims of men.

Franciscass-.

Quote: For me the balance of the research indicates there is risk associated with unprotected sex in Thailand.

Whatever that risk is can be argued and working girls and their customers can make choices as they see fit.

However it is grossly irresponsible to keep suggesting it doesn't exist and that working girls should provide BBFS as a matter of course.

More irresponsible still that its OK to use what is essentially bribery to get them to overlook those risks when they first refuse to do so and finally totally reprehensible to denigrate them when they don't change their mind because they should know their only use on this earth is to serve the whims of men: quote.

Franciscass,

1. For some reason your posts are completely invisible to me whenever I am logged into the ISG. This vanishing act is unlike a forum ignore in that all indications that you have even posted are gone. I have no idea how this came about. I wish I could use this total white out on a few troll posters that I find really offensive, but not you. Ha Ha.

2. On risks associated with barebacking: I assume there is a degree of enhanced risk over condom sex, enough to make me pay closer attention to whomever I might want to bareback than normal, but not enough to choose never to bareback. Thus, it becomes a personal risk / reward situation where every god damn punter weighs the benefits against the perceived risks and comes out with his own unique resolution of the situation.

3. Risk averse guys will condom up. Highly risk averse guys will refrain from random sex with prostitutes or even with any girl outside of mutually exclusive relationships, but even those run some degree of risk due to the fact that the virtuous wife may decide to fuck the gym instructor some afternoon and there you go. 555.

4. I think it crosses the line of none of your business, however, when you or others bring some arbitrary moral code into the discussion: "More irresponsible still that it's OK to use what is essentially bribery to get them to overlook those risks when they first refuse to do so and finally totally reprehensible to denigrate them when they don't change their mind because they should know their only use on this earth is to serve the whims of men" This line of thinking is straight out of the wok Marxist feminist ideological handbook. According to the woks all p4p is a form of slavery, male domination, and thus rape. Yep, that's where the ideology takes us. It is a very slippery slope, but it leads straight to sex re-education camps and chemical castration.

5. So, let's not go there. 555. We all like to shag Asian girls or we wouldn't find ourselves in Asia going after poon and posting on the ISG. I, for one, think I am helping the girls and doing them a big favor with my attentions. I also think that they in turn are reciprocating the favor by lending me some of their honey for short periods of time. As long as everyone is of legal age and rational mind then everything is on the up & up between two consenting adults and is nobody else's business especially that the authorities or sex police. So shag your girls the way you want to shag them and I will shag my girls the way I want and we will both be fine. Just don't hurt nobody!

[QUOTE=Sinofaguo;2474422]Like 70 to 80% of the active principles used in medecine from western countries are produced in China & India.

China sells all kinds of quality goods. If you're going to negociate the price to the lowest and don't spend a dollar on quality controle don't expect your product to be of quality, that's for sure.

So wether you like it or know it, yes its likely your medecine have a link with China.[/QUOTE]I didn't say any link? I wouldn't want a medicine as "finished product" from China I would prefer 0%.

But a small % is much different than a "finished product".

I was Mexico last year, I went to a farmacia, I went to a chain store and the farmacist advised me not buy to medicine in Mexico, he suggested I cross the border and buy in the USA.

He was a very nice man, and didn't want me getting even sicker, I'm guessing the cheap meds they sell in Mexico are knock offs made in China.

If they want to make knock offs it would be nice if they didn't kill people to make a few bucks.

[URL]https://medium.com/the-naked-architect/copycat-architecture-is-booming-in-china-87b2f4b9f628[/URL]

All they do is make cheap plastic garbage cheaper and more inferior than anyone else can.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2474433]...

However it is grossly irresponsible to keep suggesting it doesn't exist and that working girls should provide BBFS as a matter of course.

More irresponsible still that its OK to use what is essentially bribery to get them to overlook those risks when they first refuse to do so and finally totally reprehensible to denigrate them when they don't change their mind because they should know their only use on this earth is to serve the whims of men.[/QUOTE]One of the reasons I'm not a big fan of the "go with the flow and see what happens in the room" approach with regard to a session leading to BBFS is because that popular and seemingly benign method is far more apt to intimidate, manipulate and corner a girl into going along with BBFS against her better judgement than the way I do it.

The "go with the flow and see what happens in the room" punter has no idea why a girl doesn't brandish a condom and insist on its use at crunch time. I submit it could be because she has devoted a significant portion of the evening "off the market" with him and is worried about rocking the boat on anything he intends to do with her for fear of being put out with little or no money after investing so much time with him. Or by then she is so drunk from the drinks he and others bought for her that she isn't capable of making any sober decisions at all. Or by then she might even be reading his charming demeanor and their chemistry together as an indication she has a potential repeat customer here and her family could sure use that kind of ongoing income. He might even by then have gone so far as to tell her how "in love" he is with her he wants to take care of her and her family for a long time. Or, taking the opposite view, by then she might have seen in him a tendency to react a little too hot or angrily whenever he is crossed (by a server, a mamasan, another customer, a taxi driver, the hotel staff) and the last thing she wants is to cause another flare up and find his hands around her throat or balling up a fist.

I could come up with another half dozen reasons a girl to whom a "go with the flow and see what happens in the room" approach has been applied would not bring everything to a screetching halt at crunch time and insist on a condom that have nothing whatsoever to do with the girl "wanting" to fuck the man bareback for the sheer superior physical and sexual pleasure of it. Yet punters who think that preferred method is benign or "leaves it up to the girl" and that my method is "forcing" the girl to do something she wouldn't ordinarily agree to do love to tell themselves that's why the girl didn't work harder to insist on using a condom with them.

Anyone who is curious to find out if a girl "wants" or is genuinely inclined to be ok to fuck you bareback without it being a matter of force, intimidation, manipulation or cornering her into it at crunch time, imo the closest way to find out is drop the self-deluding "go with the flow and see what happens in the room" approach and try it my Upfront Agreement way; hit up girls earlier in the evening when they are sober and really do have the time and opportunity to say NO to you and choose another customer, not at closing time, not after she is falling down drunk, not when her only viable option is either you and whatever you want or to pay her own taxi fare back to her room alone with no other money. Then tell her you are interested in bareback as close as possible to the beginning of your encounter, at the second Lady Drink maximum, and long before she has committed and invested significant portions of her market/selling time "off the market" with you and with no one else. Then see if you can swing an Upfront Agreement for it.

I'd be surprised if there are 2 other punters in all of Thailand who go about scoring bareback with the girls as fair and square and without force, manipulation or intimidation as I do it. Hell, I "negotiated" BBFS (and was refused that AND BBBJ+CIM) with the Sukhumvit Road freelancer whose report of mine triggered much of this latest bareback discussion at 9AM in the morning, on the phone, while she was still laying in bed and hadn't even taken a taxi to her regular near Soi 19 stroll. In fact, she called me wanting to know that early in the day if she was going to book a session with me so she could decide whether or not to take the day off. And when we didn't book a session, sure enough I did not see her working in her spot that day or night. So much for being forced to agree to anything with me out of "desperation." lol

Add to that what you have generously pointed out about my at least having the consideration and courtesy to have gotten a vasectomy and always have a recent blood check document on hand to show anyone who wants to see it and I'd say my methods are about as responsible for scoring bareback as it is possible to get in the Thai P4P scene. But anyone else who has the brass punter balls I think it requires to do it my way rather than all the other more manipulative ways be warned: You WILL get a lot of refusals. And a lot of those refusals will be from girls who likely would have gone along with bareback fucking you if you had applied the "go with the flow and see what happens in the room" approach, especially if you had gone for it after she was clearly drunk, late at night when they have very few other options and certainly if at such a moment you offer them even more money for it.

The increased refusal rate is a high emotional price to pay in order to be as fair and square and non intimidating about it as I try to be about it. I suspect it is too high a price to pay for the vast majority of bareback-seeking punters. But I don't do it that way to be a hero and not for purely altruistic reasons. Mostly I do it that way because the sessions I get with girls who agree upfront to fuck me bareback when they are sober and could easily choose another customer instead are much better than what I get if I go to the extremes of timing it and manipulating them into it I read in other reports.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;2474490]Franciscass-.

Quote: For me the balance of the research indicates there is risk associated with unprotected sex in Thailand.

Whatever that risk is can be argued and working girls and their customers can make choices as they see fit.

However it is grossly irresponsible to keep suggesting it doesn't exist and that working girls should provide BBFS as a matter of course.

More irresponsible still that its OK to use what is essentially bribery to get them to overlook those risks when they first refuse to do so and finally totally reprehensible to denigrate them when they don't change their mind because they should know their only use on this earth is to serve the whims of men: quote.[/QUOTE]This is written in vanishing ink Natty so if interested better read it quick before it disappears.

Some clarifications if I may.

Pointing out there are risks associated with BBFS is not a moral issue it is a health issue.

Pushing back on misogynistic posts on the forum is common decency and respect for women.

I wholly respect the rights of consenting adults to do with each other without restriction whatever turns them on.

I disagree with any form of enticement, inducement coercion subtle or not to change the standards a girl who initially refuses BBFS.

I have enjoyed living here for well over 20 years, love the people, the food and the ladies.

I don't regard P4P as a form of slavery, how could I when in truth it is one of the reasons I live here.

I don't look down on the girls in the business as lazy poor illiterate WGs from the fields out to scam their way through life.

I don't regard taking care of some of them when they are genuinely down and out as is happening now as being taken advantage of.

Oops too long, already starting to disappear, bye Natty. Stay safe.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2474491]

All they do is make cheap plastic garbage[/QUOTE]Oh they for sure do plastic garbage & all sorts of other garbage but that's not "all they do".
They also make high end devices, are 2 years ahead in the 5G tech and now have most IT unicorns worldwide and are gaining a signeficant advance within artificial inteligence, automation robotics and even green techs.

Life isn't black or white nor do things stay the same forever...

A friend of mine is in BKK right now. He tells me things are pretty amazing girl wise. For example, the other night he went to Baccara and Sharks on Cowboy. He had not been there for a long time. He saw a girl he once knew who used to work pre-Corona in Nana. Back then she was one of the most popular girls in Rainbow 4 and usually enjoyed 2 barfines per night. My friend had even barfined her a couple of times but then stopped because she was kind of cold and mechanical despite her hot looks. We all know the type: minimal DFK, no DATY, covered mish sex only, and in the bathroom cleaning up the second the session is over.

So he sees her over in a popular Cowboy Go Go, but does not call her over on account of his past experience with this one. There are maybe 5 or 6 other customers in the bar and it is a Saturday night - 10 pm. Eventually she wanders over to him and says Hello,. He offers her a drink for ol' times sake and she sits down, sips her drink and begins fooling around with his crotch under the table with her free hand. Long story short, he barfines her, takes her back to his apartment, and guess what? She is a different girl than the one he knew pre Corona: DFK and a BJ in the shower and another one on the bed. Then she moves up in between his legs and begins to mount him bareback. He gives her a surprised look and she responds, this OK, with a smile. Get the picture? And when it is all over she lays next to him on her side and caresses him. Later she asks if he wants to do it again. He says no not now and she says OK, but I can stay the night and we can boom boom in the morning, no extra charge if you want.

This is the kind of attitude change I keep hearing more and more about from friends and fellow punters who are in BKK at the moment during the pandemic. It is like a golden era that happens once every 50 years or so. I wish I was in BKK right now! [blue][Deleted by Admin][/blue]

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;2474634]A friend of mine is in BKK right now. He tells me things are pretty amazing girl wise... It is like a golden era that happens once every 50 years or so. I wish I was in BKK right now! [/QUOTE]The girls are definitely more desperate, more eager for business, less likely to haggle much and [I]maybe[/I] give better service in hopes of repeats (though not always, habits are hard to change! However, the scene quality has already been in sharp decline for several years before Covid, and right now it's all the same girls, only fewer of them, the duller ones who didn't figure out it's time for a change. It's clearly NOT in any way comparable to the pre-2010 golden era on lower Sukhumvit.

Many of the nights I walked around and visited a few venues without finding a single girl I'd feel compelled to pursue. Maybe a few I would pick if it were my last week in Thailand (it's not), but 90% are not even in that category. In the real golden era, I wasn't searching for a passable one, but [I]choosing[/I] among attractive ones.

In addition, desperation is not fun. Sure, you'll shag more for less, but the vibe is definitely off.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;2474825]The girls are definitely more desperate, more eager for business, less likely to haggle much and [I]maybe[/I] give better service in hopes of repeats (though not always, habits are hard to change! However, the scene quality has already been in sharp decline for several years before Covid, and right now it's all the same girls, only fewer of them, the duller ones who didn't figure out it's time for a change. It's clearly NOT in any way comparable to the pre-2010 golden era on lower Sukhumvit.

Many of the nights I walked around and visited a few venues without finding a single girl I'd feel compelled to pursue. Maybe a few I would pick if it were my last week in Thailand (it's not), but 90% are not even in that category. In the real golden era, I wasn't searching for a passable one, but [I]choosing[/I] among attractive ones.

In addition, desperation is not fun. Sure, you'll shag more for less, but the vibe is definitely off.[/QUOTE]I am not sensing the least bit of "desperation" from the girls to provide more or better service than they would have ordinarily except for the ones who were already my regulars or repeats, as I mentioned. And I think that is more a matter of rare Thai girl gratitude since none of them have much reason to be desperate. New ones are only willing to lower their price by some pleasantly acceptable but hardly life altering percentage.

The same level of attractive new girls who refused BBFS with me during normal times are still doing it now and perfectly fine to watch me and my 2,500 - 3,000 baht offered walk away no matter how devoid of other customers the area is, how late on their rent they are or weeks without milk their babies and family buffalo have gone.

I realize that is wonderful news for several members here. But since Natty's friend's anecdote turned quite a bit on his hot and popular girl finally agreeing to BBFS as the sign for this supposed new Golden Era, it is a factor that applies to my observations as well.

Many of my fellow expats and frequent Bangkok visitor friends who found themselves stuck on the outside have been calling, sending me Line messages and emails begging me to tell them this economic downturn has caused the scene here to become a monger's paradise of the hottest girls handing out BBFS and BBBJ+CIM+Swallow left and right for rock bottom prices. Like Natty's friend's anecdote but 1000 times over.

Nope. You guys can sleep well at night in your home country knowing that ain't happening as far as this punter has noticed.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2474832]I am not sensing the least bit of "desperation" from the girls to provide more or better service than they would have ordinarily except for the ones who were already my regulars or repeats, as I mentioned. And I think that is more a matter of rare Thai girl gratitude since none of them have much reason to be desperate. New ones are only willing to lower their price by some pleasantly acceptable but hardly life altering percentage.

The same level of attractive new girls who refused BBFS with me during normal times are still doing it now and perfectly fine to watch me and my 2,500 - 3,000 baht offered walk away no matter how devoid of other customers the area is, how late on their rent they are or weeks without milk their babies and family buffalo have gone.

I realize that is wonderful news for several members here. But since Natty's friend's anecdote turned quite a bit on his hot and popular girl finally agreeing to BBFS as the sign for this supposed new Golden Era, it is a factor that applies to my observations as well.

Many of my fellow expats and frequent Bangkok visitor friends who found themselves stuck on the outside have been calling, sending me Line messages and emails begging me to tell them this economic downturn has caused the scene here to become a monger's paradise of the hottest girls handing out BBFS and BBBJ+CIM+Swallow left and right for rock bottom prices. Like Natty's friend's anecdote but 1000 times over.

Nope. You guys can sleep well at night in your home country knowing that ain't happening as far as this punter has noticed.[/QUOTE]Using the denominator of availability of BBFS while eminently understandable for you is not what I feel makes the difference for most punters who don't have the same need. Experiencing the availability on demand of top class talent at reduced prices combined with more enthusiastic service is I feel what works for the majority of customers.

I have to say ET and I don't know if you would agree or not that it says something when girls even with some financial difficulties in their lives are still wisely not willing to risk their health going bareback. While you with your testing and other safeguards are most likely perfectly safe to shag BB this is not the situation with all potential customers.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2474840]Using the denominator of availability of BBFS while eminently understandable for you is not what I feel makes the difference for most punters who don't have the same need. Experiencing the availability on demand of top class talent at reduced prices combined with more enthusiastic service is I feel what works for the majority of customers.

I have to say ET and I don't know if you would agree or not that it says something when girls even with some financial difficulties in their lives are still wisely not willing to risk their health going bareback. While you with your testing and other safeguards are most likely perfectly safe to shag BB this is not the situation with all potential customers.[/QUOTE]What is the something you think it says? Obviously, I know many girls who bareback me and I have no reason to believe I am the only one they do it with. While the same percentage of girls who say "NO" to an upfront agreement the way I prefer is no different during these times, so is the percentage who say "Yes."

And, mind you, I am the rare punter who actually negotiates these things early enough for the girl to very easily say "NO" and choose another customer without her having invested important hours of her selling time with me. Most punters who get bareback here get it after tying up her time, plying her with many drinks, leading up to crunch time in the room where if she doesn't watch her step she has every reason to believe she might be put out with little or no money for her whole night. That is, if she is sober enough to think much about it at all.

Otherwise known as "go with the flow and see what happens in the room."

I have little doubt a high percentage of the girls who say "NO" to me when I give them all the time and opportunity in the world to say "NO" if she has any qualms about it at all would probably go along with it if only I applied some of the manipulation techiques we read about on these threads from guys who apply them and claim a 90%-100% success rate in getting BBFS. "Go with the flow and see what happens in the room" figuring highly on the list of methods.

Franciscass, you'll just have to face the fact that many, many, I'll even say most Thai P4P girls here, easily a high percentage of the ones you and I would ever meet, are engaging in BBFS with customers.

The fact that you don't get it from the girls you take because you don't request or push for it and my percentage of getting it is lower than it easily would be only because I choose not to apply the popular methods of manipulation that virtually every other BBFS-seeking punter I know applies to it means almost nothing.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2474887]What is the something you think it says? Obviously, I know many girls who bareback me and I have no reason to believe I am the only one they do it with. While the same percentage of girls who say "NO" to an upfront agreement the way I prefer is no different during these times, so is the percentage who say "Yes."

And, mind you, I am the rare punter who actually negotiates these things early enough for the girl to very easily say "NO" and choose another customer without her having invested important hours of her selling time with me. Most punters who get bareback here get it after tying up her time, plying her with many drinks, leading up to crunch time in the room where if she doesn't watch her step she has every reason to believe she might be put out with little or no money for her whole night. That is, if she is sober enough to think much about it at all.

Otherwise known as "go with the flow and see what happens in the room..[/QUOTE]ET I was simply following up on your post.

"Yet I still got six "NO" replies to BBFS in a row even though I offered 2,500 - 3,000 baht from new girls".

The point I was making was these 6 new girls who refused I believe felt there were associated health / pregnancy risks.

Girls say no but you say later most do bare body. If true why when they say no initially? You explanation which if true is sad reflection on our fellow mongers.

1)"Most punters who get bareback here get it after tying up her time, plying her with many drinks, leading up to crunch time in the room where if she doesn't watch her step she has every reason to believe she might be put out with little or no money for her whole night. That is, if she is sober enough to think much about it at all".

2)"manipulation techniques we read about on these threads from guys who apply them".

Invisible Man.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2474966]ET I was simply following up on your post.

"Yet I still got six "NO" replies to BBFS in a row even though I offered 2,500 - 3,000 baht from new girls".

The point I was making was these 6 new girls who refused I believe felt there were associated health / pregnancy risks.

Girls say no but you say later most do bare body. If true why when they say no initially? You explanation which if true is sad reflection on our fellow mongers.

1)"Most punters who get bareback here get it after tying up her time, plying her with many drinks, leading up to crunch time in the room where if she doesn't watch her step she has every reason to believe she might be put out with little or no money for her whole night. That is, if she is sober enough to think much about it at all".

2)"manipulation techniques we read about on these threads from guys who apply them".

Invisible Man.[/QUOTE]Whenever I describe my preferred method of bringing up the subject of "boom boom no condom" upfront in the bar, at the club, in the massage shop, on the street, wherever, whether it is on these threads or in person with fellow punters I have met over the years, along with my success rate of getting takers at, oh, 60% or so overall, I can't count the number of times the multiple replies from other experienced punters is some variation of, "Why do that? I NEVER talk about condoms upfront. I just go with the flow and see what happens in the room and 90% of the time we wind up fucking bareback."

Surely you can't have missed that after all this time.

And I have been there many times, too. Just last week I took a new girl in town working in one of the new beer bars on Soi 7. Quite attractive. Being fairly new to the scene from Surin and working in Bangkok for the first time, she was very curious to see the go-go bars on Soi Cowboy and in Nana Plaza. So I paid the barfine and took her bar hopping. No real stated plan to even wind up in my room for sex or anything else. Just something fun to do on one of these very quiet nights lately.

Many drinks later she's crashing for the night in my bed drunk as a skunk. But she's still hot and I'm ram rod hard for her. Dripping wet and ready after several DATY orgasms, she lays back with her legs open, a beautifully shaved smooth and wet pussy waiting for dick, I make my move to enter her.

"Ohhh noooo. Must use condom."

I know exactly what the "90% of the time we wind up fucking bareback" punters would have done at such a moment; forged ahead anyway as though they never heard her slur out that statement in her drunken state. Or they would have cajoled, sweet talked, gamed her into going along with it anyway. And when they wrote the report about it here the next day, doubtful that part of it would be included.

But that isn't my thing. Not my style. And I knew this drunk lady would not have co-operated with even the most minor tweak I need beyond put it in and get it off that I require anyway. We just slept. Next morning I gave her 2,000 for the LT. This was after having paid the barfine the night before and picking up the tab for a ton if drinks for her, a couple of her co-workers at the bar and myself.

I haven't bothered to see her again. She sent me a couple of cute Line stickers since that night. But I have been busy enough spending much less baht for much better fully and happily consenting sober sex with my regular girlfriends and favorite P4P repeats I have not even gone back to her bar to say Hi.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2475029]Whenever I describe my preferred method of bringing up the subject of "boom boom no condom" upfront in the bar, at the club, in the massage shop, on the street, wherever, whether it is on these threads or in person with fellow punters I have met over the years, along with my success rate of getting takers at, oh, 60% or so overall, I can't count the number of times the multiple replies from other experienced punters is some variation of, "Why do that? I NEVER talk about condoms upfront. I just go with the flow and see what happens in the room and 90% of the time we wind up fucking bareback."

Surely you can't have missed that after all this time.

And I have been there many times, too. Just last week I took a new girl in town working in one of the new beer bars on Soi 7. Quite attractive. Being fairly new to the scene from Surin and working in Bangkok for the first time, she was very curious to see the go-go bars on Soi Cowboy and in Nana Plaza. So I paid the barfine and took her bar hopping. No real stated plan to even wind up in my room for sex or anything else. Just something fun to do on one of these very quiet nights lately.

Many drinks later she's crashing for the night in my bed drunk as a skunk. But she's still hot and I'm ram rod hard for her. Dripping wet and ready after several DATY orgasms, she lays back with her legs open, a beautifully shaved smooth and wet pussy waiting for dick, I make my move to enter her..[/QUOTE]May not agree with all of your beliefs ET but never doubted your values ET when it comes to your behavior.

It is true, believe me, that many TGs will have BBFS with farangs. Personally I'd recommend getting the lady HIV tested first and yourself as well, especially if she is going to be a regular. Besides testing you can also protect yourself with circumcision & protect the lady by being an excellent practitioner of coitus interruptus. Using pure coconut oil as a lube & barrier wouldn't hurt either. Both testing & a promise not to cum within her will help assure the lady. Just be sure to keep your word.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2475029]"Why do that? I NEVER talk about condoms upfront. I just go with the flow and see what happens in the room and 90% of the time we wind up fucking bareback."[/QUOTE]Hopefully you have caught on that the guy who keeps saying he gets BBFS from 90% of the girls in Thailand and SE Asia is trolling.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2475079]Hopefully you have caught on that the guy who keeps saying he gets BBFS from 90% of the girls in Thailand and SE Asia is trolling.[/QUOTE]That might be, but anyone claiming a 90-100% success rate of getting BBFS+CIP with Thai P4P girls by merely applying the most popularly discussed methods of manipulation or simply ignoring the girl's refusal at crunch time with "NO" or "Condom" mirrors exactly the rate of success I hear about from several other fellow ISG members I have met and dozens of visitors to Thailand who have never heard of ISG. Or, at least, we never mentioned it.

Practically every fellow punter I have met talks about being on a constant hunt for and will do whatever it takes to get BBFS+CIP from the girls they barfine, meet in the shops, pick up in the clubs or off the street. In most cases, I know they session with a different girl or two virtually every day they are here. On the rare occasions they DIDN'T get BBFS+CIP with the girl they were with previously, I hear about it with their griping and complaining. LOL.

Essentially, they all apply some method of manipulation mentioned here by the experts; "go with the flow and see what happens in the room" tying up their time most of the night so they wouldn't dare deliver ANYTHING that might displease the guy and cause her to be put out with little or no money, get her falling down drunk, hang outside the bars at closing time when they might be falling down drunk already and have very little options for making money except the helpful punter with his own mode of transportation, tell them you're a modeling agent looking for new star material (LOL), dangle a big tip over their head, profess real love and an intention to see her many times to help her and her family, react with hostility to the slightest thing leading right up to the room and on the bed causing the girl to be terrified to cross him on anything, you name it.

I can honestly say I have only met ONE fellow punter, other than me, out of the dozens I have met who has the brass punter balls I believe it takes to approach girls early, before they are drunk, when they have plenty of time and opportunity to say "NO" to BBFS+CIP with him and choose another customer, tell the girl Upfront he wants BBFS+CIP and then see how that goes. And he happens to be a member of ISG:

[B]MarquisdeSade1[/B]

He mentioned earlier that we'd met in Bangkok, shopped around and mongered together off and on over the course of a few weeks in the past. I watched him in action (from afar but still observable. We both agree this type of "negotiation" must be done privately between you and the girl). I know he closed BBFS+CIP deals with good looking young go-go dancers within a minute without even buying a drink for himself or a lady drink for the girl. LOL. I watched him do it several times. And, if I'm not mistaken, that was his first trip to Thailand.

Sure, there is no way for me to know what happened in the privacy of his room or exactly how much he paid for it. That is true of all of us with regard to the other punters we meet or read about here. But watching him in action with his particular type of look, vibe and energy, I have no reason to believe he didn't pay far less than the going rate and got exactly what he negotiated for Upfront in the bar, the street, wherever, a vast majority of the time.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2475127]Practically every fellow punter I have met talks about being on a constant hunt for and will do whatever it takes to get BBFS+CIP.[/QUOTE]ET You and your friends must hail from a part of the planet I'm not familiar with. Over the twenty odd years I've been here I've entertained many visitors both young and old and all but a handful were happy to wear a condom. Sure some if given the opportunity went bareback but more were not interested having the usual health concerns. I also have a number of friends here and none insist on BBFS or CIM. As I said perhaps we are on different orbits with different realities. Would be interesting to see what the research if it exists shows.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2475127]That might be, but anyone claiming a 90-100% success rate of getting BBFS+CIP with Thai P4P girls by merely applying the most popularly discussed methods of manipulation or simply ignoring the girl's refusal at crunch time with "NO" or "Condom" mirrors exactly the rate of success I hear about from several other fellow ISG members I have met and dozens of visitors to Thailand who have never heard of ISG. Or, at least, we never mentioned it..............[/QUOTE]Nevertheless ET from all reports you are the bare back king of ISG.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;2475078]It is true, believe me, that many TGs will have BBFS with farangs. Personally I'd recommend getting the lady HIV tested first and yourself as well, especially if she is going to be a regular. Besides testing you can also protect yourself with circumcision & protect the lady by being an excellent practitioner of coitus interruptus. Using pure coconut oil as a lube & barrier wouldn't hurt either. Both testing & a promise not to cum within her will help assure the lady. Just be sure to keep your word.[/QUOTE]Cum inside is my SOP, pussy mouth or anus almost 40 yrs of sex never ever once coitus interrupts free or p4p, if that was standard, I would be addicted to porn instead of the real thing.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2475127]That might be, but anyone claiming a 90-100% success rate of getting BBFS+CIP with Thai P4P girls by merely applying the most popularly discussed methods of manipulation or simply ignoring the girl's refusal at crunch time with "NO" or "Condom" mirrors exactly the rate of success I hear about from several other fellow ISG members I have met and dozens of visitors to Thailand who have never heard of ISG. Or, at least, we never mentioned it.

Practically every fellow punter I have met talks about being on a constant hunt for and will do whatever it takes to get BBFS+CIP from the girls they barfine, meet in the shops, pick up in the clubs or off the street. In most cases, I know they session with a different girl or two virtually every day they are here. On the rare occasions they DIDN'T get BBFS+CIP with the girl they were with previously, I hear about it with their griping and complaining. LOL.

Essentially, they all apply some method of manipulation mentioned here by the experts; "go with the flow and see what happens in the room" tying up their time most of the night so they wouldn't dare deliver ANYTHING that might displease the guy and cause her to be put out with little or no money, get her falling down drunk, hang outside the bars at closing time when they might be falling down drunk already and have very little options for making money except the helpful punter with his own mode of transportation, tell them you're a modeling agent looking for new star material (LOL), dangle a big tip over their head, profess real love and an intention to see her many times to help her and her family, react with hostility to the slightest thing leading right up to the room and on the bed causing the girl to be terrified to cross him on anything, you name it..[/QUOTE]I never agree to full price, it has to be less than everyone else pays or I won't take her LOL.

I want more than everyone else gets, FOR less thb LOL.

I thought I was the best monger in BKK but that title goes to ET but he lives there and spends his thb more freely than this monger.

When I get a girl my objective is to see how close to free I can get here, not how much I can empty my wallet for a nut like I hear so many doing in Pattaya.

Long time lurker here. Too all you valued posters who have a hard time believing others posters claim about bbfs, age and physical appearance matters.

Also if you could not go out and pick up attractive women in your home country then most likely the women in sea are not swooning over you also.

If you can not go to a club and not embarrass yourself on the dance floor then what do you think some 18-25 yr old would see in you? Besides your wallet of course.

Long story short. Some guys have no problems getting the extras because the girls would actually fuck them for free. Not taking shots at anyone, just trying to point out the obvious!

[QUOTE=Turgid;2475213]Nevertheless ET from all reports you are the bare back king of ISG.[/QUOTE]Oh no, not even close.

The crown for king or best on ISG would have to go to the long term, highly respected posters here who report getting bareback as the norm without discussion or objection from any girl they've spied, liked and taken, including the top best lookers from the top go-go bars, any night of the week, whenever they want and have never in many years paid one more than 1,000 - 1,100 baht for Long Time and whose claims are then confirmed by eye witness testimony from other long term, well respected posters here.

That wouldn't be me by a mile.

I do ok for an old farang.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2475079]Hopefully you have caught on that the guy who keeps saying he gets BBFS from 90% of the girls in Thailand and SE Asia is trolling.[/QUOTE]Thanks BB, but what I can't rap my head around is why someone would keep doing that. I can only reach the conclusion that not so innocent objectives may be behind it. I'm glad other punters can see through it though it is a little over the top.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2475219]I thought I was the best monger in BKK but that title goes to ET but he lives there and spends his thb more freely than this monger.[/QUOTE]Sorry guys, hate to bust up this mutual admiration thing you got going between yourselves but I'm the no 1 monger as proven by a recent poll of some 1500 working girls in Lower Sukhumvit (soi to soi 39). I came out on top (pardon the pun) in all categories, looks, personality, performance, , generosity, want to see again, and where to get the best noodles. Unfortunately but understandably for national security reasons the poll cannot be made public. Incidentally ET you came 4th some problem I believe with requiring specialized services and the Marquis didn't make the top ten.

[QUOTE=DazeUp;2475403]Thanks BB, but what I can't rap my head around is why someone would keep doing that. I can only reach the conclusion that not so innocent objectives may be behind it. I'm glad other punters can see through it though it is a little over the top.[/QUOTE]To me, it is the substance of what someone posts, the topic, the observations, conclusions, debatable points and so on that matters and what it is about those things that inspires me to respond or not.

I really couldn't care less if all ten of my previous replies were to the same member hiding behind different identities and ISG accounts and that old lady has not left her Des Moines, Iowa basement since 1965 if what she posted is worth considering and responding to based on my experiences and observations as well.

For example, I assume we are all talking about a particular member who claims to get bareback from every Thai P4P girl he approaches by either lying to her about his intense feelings of love for her, hinting he will take care of her and her family for a long time, dangling a sizable tip in front of her and so on. No doubt his style of posting seems for all the world to be comically fake, a made up persona to keep us from figuring out who he or she really is on the board.

But the thing is the methods of manipulation he delights in describing and reporting ARE KNOWN to work on a huge percentage of P4P girls who might not otherwise agree so readily to bareback. At least, according to what I have heard from dozens of punters who apply those methods.

Therefore, what that member posts is valid and worth responding to imo even if he is actually a 90 year old lady who has never been here but who now believes in her heart that you really do pronounce the name of the country "Thigh-land."

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2475418]Sorry guys, hate to bust up this mutual admiration thing you got going between yourselves but I'm the no 1 monger as proven by a recent poll of some 1500 working girls in Lower Sukhumvit (soi to soi 39). I came out on top (pardon the pun) in all categories, looks, personality, performance, , generosity, want to see again, and where to get the best noodles. Unfortunately but understandably for national security reasons the poll cannot be made public. Incidentally ET you came 4th some problem I believe with requiring specialized services and the Marquis didn't make the top ten.[/QUOTE]No, Franciscass, you forgot this election is decided by the Electoral College on a bar by bar basis. The popular vote is interesting. You can tell your grandkids about it. But that isn't how you win the crown around here.

😉

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2475395]Oh no, not even close.

The crown for king or best on ISG would have to go to the long term, highly respected posters here who report getting bareback as the norm without discussion or objection from any girl they've spied, liked and taken, including the top best lookers from the top go-go bars, any night of the week, whenever they want and have never in many years paid one more than 1,000 - 1,100 baht for Long Time and whose claims are then confirmed by eye witness testimony from other long term, well respected posters here............[/QUOTE]That's why I said from all reports.

[QUOTE=Lebyteme;2475344]Long time lurker here. Too all you valued posters who have a hard time believing others posters claim about bbfs, age and physical appearance matters.

Also if you could not go out and pick up attractive women in your home country then most likely the women in sea are not swooning over you also.

If you can not go to a club and not embarrass yourself on the dance floor then what do you think some 18-25 yr old would see in you? Besides your wallet of course.

Long story short. Some guys have no problems getting the extras because the girls would actually fuck them for free. Not taking shots at anyone, just trying to point out the obvious![/QUOTE]You could say there are 2 types of mongers.

High self-esteem.

Low self-esteem.

The 1st group will always seek out value for money via great service great prices.

The 2nd group has low self-esteem so this destroys the market over time, sometimes faster in some places depending on their numbers.

They chase the 8's 9's and 10's and will accept any service at any price, because they have low self-esteem, and then they will declare victory over all of us LMAO.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2475530]You could say there are 2 types of mongers.

High self-esteem. / Low self-esteem.

The 1st group will always seek out value for money via great service great prices.

The 2nd group has low self-esteem so this destroys the market over time, sometimes faster in some places depending on their numbers.

They chase the 8's 9's and 10's and will accept any service at any price, because they have low self-esteem, and then they will declare victory over all of us LMAO.[/QUOTE]You seem to conveniently leave out that the 1st group sometimes sacrifices quality or convenience. Not always, but sometimes. ME, I prefer lookers over plain girls and I am willing to pay the market rate for them whatever that is depending on when and where I find them. Keep in mind that poon is a depreciating asset just like hotel rooms and empty plane seats. That why guys who are willing to wait until 4 am can usually score a better deal than guys that want that girl at 9 pm.

As I indicated above, I pay the going rate for what I like when I want it. But that does not mean I always pay top Thai dollar IE 2000 to 2500 baht (oily), 2500 to 3000 baht (Go Go), 4000 baht & more (high end nightclubs), to sometimes well over 4000 baht in a Soapy. At the same time, or rather at different times, you can find me cruising Soi 6 or Soi Full Love Inn in Pat in the afternoon or Soi 4 and Sukhumvit looking for a sexy SW's from 1 am to 4 am. I dig variety. It mixes things up and makes it more interesting. But make no mistake, the sexy, scrawny, little girl I had fun with last time I went to 007 Bar (Soi Full Love Inn) and had for 1000 baht was no comparison in looks to the 6000 baht Maria Hotel & Spa soapy massage sideline girl that I 69'd and enjoyed licking her "A" hole.

So, I guess this puts me in a 3rd group of punters who know the score and are willing to pay going rates to have their cake and eat it too when and where they want it. I will add that I don't care what other punters are doing or paying. My focus is 100% on the girls and having a good time. Other punters don't really exist in my world. 555.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2475530]You could say there are 2 types of mongers.

High self-esteem.

Low self-esteem.

The 1st group will always seek out value for money via great service great prices.

The 2nd group has low self-esteem so this destroys the market over time, sometimes faster in some places depending on their numbers.

They chase the 8's 9's and 10's and will accept any service at any price, because they have low self-esteem, and then they will declare victory over all of us LMAO.[/QUOTE]IMHO I'd add at least one other, 3rd, group.

Those with average or high esteem who pay above market rates because:

(A) they can and or have the disposable burnable income or assets to do so and or.

(B) they hope this will get them better service and or.

(C) hook the lady as wanting to be a regular if her service and or attitude is up to his standards.

[QUOTE=Lebyteme;2475344]Long time lurker here. Too all you valued posters who have a hard time believing others posters claim about bbfs, age and physical appearance matters.

Also if you could not go out and pick up attractive women in your home country then most likely the women in sea are not swooning over you also.

If you can not go to a club and not embarrass yourself on the dance floor then what do you think some 18-25 yr old would see in you? Besides your wallet of course.

Long story short. Some guys have no problems getting the extras because the girls would actually fuck them for free. Not taking shots at anyone, just trying to point out the obvious![/QUOTE]Well said. Yes, age and appearance matter.

Even so, sometimes Thai women will actually prefer the older well dressed gentleman rather than a Justin Bieber or Brad Pitt lookalike.

Some Thai women are looking for a wealthy sugar daddy or husband to "take care" of her, her family, all her relatives, kin & the entire village.

In return she will "take care" of her farang very well, I'm sure.

Some other factors may also come into play to attract Thai ladies, besides mere cash and being a high or low roller.

For example, how one smells. Is your scent of Chanel number 5. Or dog shit.

For another example, are you a polite or interesting talker. Do you speak Thai. Do you show interest in your "date". Are you considerate. Do you have "game".

For yet another example, race may also be an important factor with some Thai females, whether in or out of the "pay for play" market.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;2475575]IMHO I'd add at least one other, 3rd, group.

Those with average or high esteem who pay above market rates because:

(A) they can and or have the disposable burnable income or assets to do so and or.

(B) they hope this will get them better service and or.

(C) hook the lady as wanting to be a regular if her service and or attitude is up to his standards.[/QUOTE]Are you suggesting you do this? What else do you do this with? Hairdresser? Plumber? Car mechanic? Physician? Attorney?

Do you pay more at restos so the cook, cooks better for you?

Goferring wrote back last year a great post, that states this does not work, as a matter of fact, they know the reasonable price, and once you cross that line, you have labeled.

Yourself a chump and / or easy mark, to be taken advantage of, and not to be respected.

Wiser words were never spoken!

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2475530]You could say there are 2 types of mongers.

High self-esteem.

Low self-esteem.

The 1st group will always seek out value for money via great service great prices.

The 2nd group has low self-esteem so this destroys the market over time, sometimes faster in some places depending on their numbers.

They chase the 8's 9's and 10's and will accept any service at any price, because they have low self-esteem, and then they will declare victory over all of us LMAO.[/QUOTE]I disagree. Low self esteem mongers are not chasing anything above a 7. They are all about getting girls for a cheap price. They could care less if she has the face of a pig.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;2475575]IMHO I'd add at least one other, 3rd, group.

Those with average or high esteem who pay above market rates because:

(A) they can and or have the disposable burnable income or assets to do so and or.

(B) they hope this will get them better service and or.

(C) hook the lady as wanting to be a regular if her service and or attitude is up to his standards.[/QUOTE]This might be my category, with a footnote. That 3000 baht agogo girl is probably 2000 baht on the second evening and 1500 baht thereafter. But, there is no second date if the first date isn't on point. I have a history of sending the poor performers away before the first date is finished, usually with partial payment. I'll just go out and bring another back a short time later. I'm willing to pay whatever it takes, but I insist on good performance.

There are also the men who have so much money that 1,000 baht versus 10,000 baht makes no difference to them. There is no point in haggling price because an extra 9,000 baht is no more significant to these men than buying the 10 baht water instead of the 7 baht water at 7-11.

[QUOTE=HorseTrader;2475660]This might be my category, with a footnote. That 3000 baht agogo girl is probably 2000 baht on the second evening and 1500 baht thereafter. But, there is no second date if the first date isn't on point. I have a history of sending the poor performers away before the first date is finished, usually with partial payment. I'll just go out and bring another back a short time later. I'm willing to pay whatever it takes, but I insist on good performance.

There are also the men who have so much money that 1,000 baht versus 10,000 baht makes no difference to them. There is no point in haggling price because an extra 9,000 baht is no more significant to these men than buying the 10 baht water instead of the 7 baht water at 7-11.[/QUOTE]Its all about performance performance performance.

I don't want a supermodel for 100 thb if her performance is shit.

One point of disagreement, the guys with huge bank accts, I seriously doubt they are mongering where the rest of us are?

If they are, I think they are lost, there are some big money venues in the world and sorry guys BKK is not one of them LOL.

If I wanted to spend 10000 thb for a pop I wouldn't do it in BKK.

The idea of a rich guy hunting pussy in BKK makes me want to piss myself laughing.

I love Thai hookers but I doubt there is one worth 10000 thb in all of Thailand.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2475530]You could say there are 2 types of mongers.

High self-esteem.

Low self-esteem.

The 1st group will always seek out value for money via great service great prices.

The 2nd group has low self-esteem so this destroys the market over time, sometimes faster in some places depending on their numbers.

They chase the 8's 9's and 10's and will accept any service at any price, because they have low self-esteem, and then they will declare victory over all of us LMAO.[/QUOTE]Very well stated. Agree 100 percent. Never really seen it put in writing in such a concise accurate way.

When I moved over 20 years ago the vast majority of dudes fit into the first category. I think a lot of that had to do with the fact that in order to live over here you had to have experienced some modicum of success in your life back home, be on a fat expat package, or be an English teacher who just didn't care about anything. There were also a lot of guys who could afford to come over here for a couple of months a year and they were normally quite successful back home as well. As flights became cheaper and things became easier and more accessible Thailand opened up to a very different type of punter. And that goes for both Western and Asian punters. So as time went by there were more and more that fit into the second category. I always found it comical with dudes who used P4 P to feed their ego. To me the whole idea of it is there is no ego involved.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2475530]You could say there are 2 types of mongers.

High self-esteem.

Low self-esteem.

The 1st group will always seek out value for money via great service great prices.

The 2nd group has low self-esteem so this destroys the market over time, sometimes faster in some places depending on their numbers.

They chase the 8's 9's and 10's and will accept any service at any price, because they have low self-esteem, and then they will declare victory over all of us LMAO.[/QUOTE]So, people (mongers are people) with high self esteem would not go meet women without money involved?

[QUOTE=Lebyteme;2475623]I disagree. Low self esteem mongers are not chasing anything above a 7. They are all about getting girls for a cheap price. They could care less if she has the face of a pig.[/QUOTE]That's not low self esteem that's low bank account.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2475668]Its all about performance performance performance.

I don't want a supermodel for 100 thb if her performance is shit.

One point of disagreement, the guys with huge bank accts, I seriously doubt they are mongering where the rest of us are?

If they are, I think they are lost, there are some big money venues in the world and sorry guys BKK is not one of them LOL.

If I wanted to spend 10000 thb for a pop I wouldn't do it in BKK.

The idea of a rich guy hunting pussy in BKK makes me want to piss myself laughing.

I love Thai hookers but I doubt there is one worth 10000 thb in all of Thailand.[/QUOTE]If you don't travel in that sphere you wouldn't know. I am sure there are plenty of 10 k plus baht girls around. You can piss in your pants all you want.

You and I just don't know and probably will never know.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2475668]One point of disagreement, the guys with huge bank accts, I seriously doubt they are mongering where the rest of us are?
...
I love Thai hookers but I doubt there is one worth 10000 thb in all of Thailand.[/QUOTE]I prefer the Thai women over women anywhere else in the world (mostly personality). If I had unlimited money, I would look to Thailand first with some sort of screening process that didn't result in bad dates.

Keep in mind that different things appeal to different people.

[QUOTE=Dg8787;2475822]If you don't travel in that sphere you wouldn't know. I am sure there are plenty of 10 k plus baht girls around. You can piss in your pants all you want.

You and I just don't know and probably will never know.[/QUOTE]You will see me pay 20000 thb in Moscow but never 10000 thb in BKK.

Maybe? For a non hooker? But not what's on offer in Nana Soi Cowboy or Thermae, I seriously doubt they are all hiding in Patpong or Pattaya.

I went into Emanulle one day and I pissed my pants laughing and had to leave to change my pants before I shit them.

And I must say again I absolutely love Thai hookers but lets be honest here, they are not international supermodel quality beauties.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2475829]You will see me pay 20000 thb in Moscow but never 10000 thb in BKK.

Maybe? For a non hooker? But not what's on offer in Nana Soi Cowboy or Thermae, I seriously doubt they are all hiding in Patpong or Pattaya.

I went into Emanulle one day and I pissed my pants laughing and had to leave to change my pants before I shit them.

And I must say again I absolutely love Thai hookers but lets be honest here, they are not international supermodel quality beauties.[/QUOTE]Like I said you are not in that world of 10 k plus baht girls. Hard to judge if you are not in it.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2475614]Are you suggesting you do this? What else do you do this with? Hairdresser? Plumber? Car mechanic? Physician? Attorney?

Do you pay more at restos so the cook, cooks better for you?

Goferring wrote back last year a great post, that states this does not work, as a matter of fact, they know the reasonable price, and once you cross that line, you have labeled.

Yourself a chump and / or easy mark, to be taken advantage of, and not to be respected.

Wiser words were never spoken![/QUOTE]Well, my friend, IME I don't recall ever having paid beyond the "rate of the bill" with lawyers, at grocery stores, pharmacies & with many others. Though I did once offer a lawyer tickets to NHL games if he achieved a certain result for me. And with anyone who provides me with good, excellent or outstanding service, it is entirely possible if I were moved to do so that I would tip them as I have done with others in the past. For example, by giving a donation to this site.

In LOS I have tipped a 7-11 employee for helping me with something in the store. While to a plumber in my home first world nation who made an extra trip I gave an unusually large amount beyond the bill. In Bangkok I've also tipped for cutting my hair, massages, taxi drivers, and in restaurants, etc. Either for good service and or out of the generosity of my heart. I've also tipped in different situations in my birth country.

If an agreement to 1000 baht short time is made with a female street walker at the Nana Hotel & later back in his hotel room she consents to BBFS with with the guy & after he decides to generously tips her an extra 1000, is that so very different than the aforementioned that are being tipped for good service and or from the generosity of one's heart.

Is it wrong to tip her when she goes beyond what she had to. Assuming one can very easily afford to do so.

Moreover, Thailand is a poor country & is it a sin to help the relatively poor.

Also, don't you agree, that in a first world country to get BBFS from such a lady like that, if you could obtain it at all without much more difficulty, would be on average way more costly.

Of course sometimes the lady will be resistant to BBFS, but willing to do so if one offers more baht. In that case, if she puts out as promised, it would be only fair and right to pay her what you agreed to.

As to whether or not it works to get a woman as a regular and or one who provides better service because a client pays more, off the top of my head I'm not sure how that can be proven one way or the other. I'm not aware of any controlled scientific experiments on the subject. Personally, though, other things being equal, I'd probably prefer to choose an employer who pays more. Wouldn't you. Wouldn't you also be more happy working for him. Maybe even consider him to be, jai dee, good heart. Being around a happy lady is probably a good thing for the customer's happiness.

Whether or not any Thai "pay for play" gals have ever thought of me as an "easy mark, to be taken advantage of, and not to be respected", I can't say. I'm not sure I even care. After all I can't even understand Thai let alone read other people's minds. But even if that were true, I am happy, for then they are more likely going to keep coming back for more or to be a regular, which is what I want. At least from some of them. And one of the reasons in my mind for paying more than I have to.

Any that ever thought they will "take advantage of" me as in getting me, for example, as a "sugar daddy" for their whole extended family of relatives, friends, etc, they were disappointed. Some have spoken of farang giving them huge amounts of cash, like 100 K baht, but I've not been that kind of guy. Likewise with those who sized me up as a potential husband, boyfriend or monthly donor.

If the lady wants to keep me as one of her regulars, then she better keep up the level of performance. Otherwise she's toast. And considering that historically I have strong butterfly tendencies, and am continually changing, evolving, she probably will be anyway, sooner or later.

Hopefully that helps to explain where some punters may be coming from. Cheers.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;2475857]If the lady wants to keep me as one of her regulars, then she better keep up the level of performance. Otherwise she's toast. And considering that historically I have strong butterfly tendencies, and am continually changing, evolving, she probably will be anyway, sooner or later..[/QUOTE]Great line.

[QUOTE=Lebyteme;2475344]Long time lurker here. Too all you valued posters who have a hard time believing others posters claim about bbfs, age and physical appearance matters.

Also if you could not go out and pick up attractive women in your home country then most likely the women in sea are not swooning over you also.

If you can not go to a club and not embarrass yourself on the dance floor then what do you think some 18-25 yr old would see in you? Besides your wallet of course.

Long story short. Some guys have no problems getting the extras because the girls would actually fuck them for free. Not taking shots at anyone, just trying to point out the obvious![/QUOTE]Have not posted in some time before COVID-19,job is gone now so more free time. I agree with above except 2nd paragraph. I first worked in Philippines around 10 years ago, and many countries since then. After living in US all my life when I first arrived there I did not go out, I figured what's the point Friends were like dude you got to get out as a white western guy you will be very popular. Jesus. They weren't kidding. I was confused as nothing at home I would consider as a guy over 50 would speak to me, I tried!!When trying it was like Ewwww. How old are you? In other words I couldn't get laid in a women prison with a handful of pardons.

Asia was a welcoming surprise. It seemed all of a sudden I was Tom Cruise. Needless to say my past 10 years have been very enjoyable and my plan is to retire there. The US is a great country but for women it sucks. A man over 50 unless he is a gallizonaire can basically forget about anything under 30. Looks, well I'm not fat all my hair and 6' tall, average I guess. I'm praying this is over soon so as to get out of here. Many a friend here my age alone and miserable. I've tried to get them to visit but they just don't believe me. If they only knew.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;2475857]In LOS I have tipped a 7-11 employee for helping me with something in the store. While to a plumber in my home first world nation who made an extra trip I gave an unusually large amount beyond the bill. In Bangkok....[/QUOTE]Yes, tip away, but I don't think the OP was talking about tipping, he was talking about paying over market price.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;2475857]Moreover, Thailand is a poor country & is it a sin to help the relatively poor.[/QUOTE]There are many poor people in LOS, if you're trying to help the poor you hit the wrong demographic. Girls that are getting around 3000 for an hour's work don't really fit into this demographic that you're looking to help out of the kindness of your heart.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;2475857]Also, don't you agree, that in a first world country to get BBFS from such a lady like that, if you could obtain it at all without much more difficulty, would be on average way more costly.[/QUOTE]And here is the line that gives it all away and proves a lot of mongers here are correct when they talk about spoiling the market and raising rates if there is enough of this logic going around. Please bear with me on this one. I live in a country where people get by with 300 USD a month. It's not a great living but we get by. Being that's the case, girls are happy to accept 20 USD per session, they'll accept less but are happy with it because they make that 300 USD in a week rather that in a month.

Along comes Freddie who pays 200 USD per session in his home country. Gives a model girl 50 USD for her service based on his logic that its way more costly where he comes from. Word gets around that Freddie's can pay that much, girls start asking for 50 from the many Freddie's coming into town. Model girls no longer happy that they're getting paid the same rate as regular sue, so they start asking Freddie's for 80 USD and get it because Freddie just paid 50 for Sue. And the wheel keeps spinning.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;2475857]Of course sometimes the lady will be resistant to BBFS, but willing to do so if one offers more baht. In that case, if she puts out as promised, it would be only fair and right to pay her what you agreed to.[/QUOTE]If she is reluctant to BBFS to begin with, better not pressure / entice her to do it with more money. This is the opposite of being kind hearted. Find another that is ok with it. This has been discussed extensively in ETs posts, kindly read.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;2475857]Any that ever thought they will "take advantage of" me as in getting me, for example, as a "sugar daddy" for their whole extended family of relatives, friends, etc, they were disappointed. Some have spoken of farang giving them huge amounts of cash, like 100 K baht, but I've not been that kind of guy. Likewise with those who sized me up as a potential husband, boyfriend or monthly donor.[/QUOTE]It's clear that you have been identified as a mark and targeted on more that one occasion, never have the more sensible mongers heard girls speaking about getting 100 k from other mongers because the girls have not marked them.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;2475857]If the lady wants to keep me as one of her regulars, then she better keep up the level of performance. Otherwise she's toast. And considering that historically I have strong butterfly tendencies, and am continually changing, evolving, she probably will be anyway, sooner or later.[/QUOTE]It's not the lady keeping you as a regular, it's you keeping her as a regular.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;2475857]Hopefully that helps to explain where some punters may be coming from. Cheers.[/QUOTE]Thanks, it does.

[QUOTE=Locamotive;2475924]Have not posted in some time before COVID-19,job is gone now so more free time. I agree with above except 2nd paragraph. I first worked in Philippines around 10 years ago, and many countries since then. After living in US all my life when I first arrived there I did not go out, I figured what's the point Friends were like dude you got to get out as a white western guy you will be very popular. Jesus. They weren't kidding. I was confused as nothing at home I would consider as a guy over 50 would speak to me, I tried!!When trying it was like Ewwww. How old are you? In other words I couldn't get laid in a women prison with a handful of pardons.

Asia was a welcoming surprise. It seemed all of a sudden I was Tom Cruise. Needless to say my past 10 years have been very enjoyable and my plan is to retire there. The US is a great country but for women it sucks. A man over 50 unless he is a gallizonaire can basically forget about anything under 30. Looks, well I'm not fat all my hair and 6' tall, average I guess. I'm praying this is over soon so as to get out of here. Many a friend here my age alone and miserable. I've tried to get them to visit but they just don't believe me. If they only knew.[/QUOTE]I agree you sound like a "catch", 6' white guy, most Asian girls want the white penis, except of course the most mercenary of the mercenary, they hunt the mongers that overpay them.

Its an odd thing when you are looking for pussy to buy, and they give it to you for free instead LOL.

Enjoy and cheers.

Life is good for the white man in SEA.

[QUOTE=DazeUp;2476003]Yes, tip away, but I don't think the OP was talking about tipping, he was talking about paying over market price.

There are many poor people in LOS, if you're trying to help the poor you hit the wrong demographic. Girls that are getting around 3000 for an hour's work don't really fit into this demographic that you're looking to help out of the kindness of your heart.

And here is the line that gives it all away and proves a lot of mongers here are correct when they talk about spoiling the market and raising rates if there is enough of this logic going around. Please bear with me on this one. I live in a country where people get by with 300 USD a month. It's not a great living but we get by. Being that's the case, girls are happy to accept 20 USD per session, they'll accept less but are happy with it because they make that 300 USD in a week rather that in a month.

Along comes Freddie who pays 200 USD per session in his home country. Gives a model girl 50 USD for her service based on his logic that its way more costly where he comes from. Word gets around that Freddie's can pay that much, girls start asking for 50 from the many Freddie's coming into town. Model girls no longer happy that they're getting paid the same rate as regular sue, so they start asking Freddie's for 80 USD and get it because Freddie just paid 50 for Sue. And the wheel keeps spinning..[/QUOTE]Nicely done, I didn't have the energy to break it down like that.

[QUOTE=DazeUp;2476003]...........Along comes Freddie who pays 200 USD per session in his home country. Gives a model girl 50 USD for her service based on his logic that its way more costly where he comes from. Word gets around that Freddie's can pay that much, girls start asking for 50 from the many Freddie's coming into town. Model girls no longer happy that they're getting paid the same rate as regular sue, so they start asking Freddie's for 80 USD and get it because Freddie just paid 50 for Sue. And the wheel keeps spinning.............[/QUOTE]Freddie with big bank account overpays in Thailand. Returns home happy with empty balls. Girls who he overpaid tell other girls and soon all girls now want more money. Cheapie Charlies can no longer monger. Less competition for girls for Freddie when Freddie returns?

[QUOTE=DazeUp;2476003]Yes, tip away, but I don't think the OP was talking about tipping, he was talking about paying over market price.[/QUOTE]Tipping is not customary in Thailand. Only in tourist parts where Farang are plentiful have the girls and service workers has become accustomed to tips. It's why Thai service workers put up with Farang.

Many many years ago I remember tipping in Japan because I had just finished one of the best meals I have ever had in my life in a dingy Japanese Izakaya. When the owner found out I tipped he ran out of the izakaya to give me my tip back. His English was poor but he did know how to say 'no tip'. Japanese take pride in providing good service and goods and unless you are in a tourist area tipping is considered an insult.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2476060]I agree you sound like a "catch", 6' white guy, most Asian girls want the white penis[/QUOTE]

Asian girls want white penis? Asians prefer Asians, not white men. No different than white preferring white, blacks preferring blacks, Latina preferring Latina. Now if money is involved that's different.

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;2475857]Well, my friend, IME I don't recall ever having paid beyond the "rate of the bill" with lawyers, at grocery stores, pharmacies & with many others. Though I did once offer a lawyer tickets to NHL games if he achieved a certain result for me. And with anyone who provides me with good, excellent or outstanding service, it is entirely possible if I were moved to do so that I would tip them as I have done with others in the past. For example, by giving a donation to this site.

In LOS I have tipped a 7-11 employee for helping me with something in the store. While to a plumber in my home first world nation who made an extra trip I gave an unusually large amount beyond the bill. In Bangkok I've also tipped for cutting my hair, massages, taxi drivers, and in restaurants, etc. Either for good service and or out of the generosity of my heart. I've also tipped in different situations in my birth country.

If an agreement to 1000 baht short time is made with a female street walker at the Nana Hotel & later back in his hotel room she consents to BBFS with with the guy & after he decides to generously tips her an extra 1000, is that so very different than the aforementioned that are being tipped for good service and or from the generosity of one's heart.

Is it wrong to tip her when she goes beyond what she had to. Assuming one can very easily afford to do so.

Moreover, Thailand is a poor country & is it a sin to help the relatively poor.

Also, don't you agree, that in a first world country to get BBFS from such a lady like that, if you could obtain it at all without much more difficulty, would be on average way more costly.

Of course sometimes the lady will be resistant to BBFS, but willing to do so if one offers more baht. In that case, if she puts out as promised, it would be only fair and right to pay her what you agreed to.

As to whether or not it works to get a woman as a regular and or one who provides better service because a client pays more, off the top of my head I'm not sure how that can be proven one way or the other. I'm not aware of any controlled scientific experiments on the subject. Personally, though, other things being equal, I'd probably prefer to choose an employer who pays more. Wouldn't you. Wouldn't you also be more happy working for him. Maybe even consider him to be, jai dee, good heart. Being around a happy lady is probably a good thing for the customer's happiness.

Whether or not any Thai "pay for play" gals have ever thought of me as an "easy mark, to be taken advantage of, and not to be respected", I can't say. I'm not sure I even care. After all I can't even understand Thai let alone read other people's minds. But even if that were true, I am happy, for then they are more likely going to keep coming back for more or to be a regular, which is what I want. At least from some of them. And one of the reasons in my mind for paying more than I have to.

Any that ever thought they will "take advantage of" me as in getting me, for example, as a "sugar daddy" for their whole extended family of relatives, friends, etc, they were disappointed. Some have spoken of farang giving them huge amounts of cash, like 100 K baht, but I've not been that kind of guy. Likewise with those who sized me up as a potential husband, boyfriend or monthly donor.

If the lady wants to keep me as one of her regulars, then she better keep up the level of performance. Otherwise she's toast. And considering that historically I have strong butterfly tendencies, and am continually changing, evolving, she probably will be anyway, sooner or later.

Hopefully that helps to explain where some punters may be coming from. Cheers.[/QUOTE]Great post on the Art of Tipping.

Very few will accept it. Those that do will do and will reap the benefits. Of course this is not for everyone.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2476123]

Asian girls want white penis? Asians prefer Asians, not white men. No different than white preferring white, blacks preferring blacks, Latina preferring Latina. Now if money is involved that's different.[/QUOTE]Whether you accept it or not.

IE, the sky is still blue even if you deny it.

[URL]https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/kellie-chauvin-history-asian-women-being-told-whom-they-should-n1231600[/URL]

You seem to mix things up a bit, the times when this doesn't apply is when those that overpay come along and bribe them to go with them LOL.

Why do you think they do it? 3-3-3.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2476108]Freddie with big bank account overpays in Thailand. Returns home happy with empty balls. Girls who he overpaid tell other girls and soon all girls now want more money. Cheapie Charlies can no longer monger. Less competition for girls for Freddie when Freddie returns?[/QUOTE]They are deliberately trying to destroy the whole market and hobby for their own selfish purposes? No fucking way.

[QUOTE=DazeUp;2476003]Yes, tip away, but I don't think the OP was talking about tipping, he was talking about paying over market price.[/QUOTE]Yes, indeed, he was. You are correct. And what I see as common between tipping and paying over market price is that both are paying over market price. So really, what's the difference? Should not both be considered, according to some, as "spoiling the market"? Do you also object to tipping because you think it may, or has already, led to a rate increase?

Then there is the question of when is one "paying over market price"? For example, in the NEP area at one time not many years ago you could find street ladies of varying looks from below average to average to above average all requesting the same price of 1000 baht. That includes former NEP hot girls who would have IMO been superstars working inside NEP. If a guy says 2000 baht to her after she asks 1000 baht, do you seriously think that is "paying over market price" or that there is no chance you will get better service as a result? Or a better chance to hook her as a regular or she will not be happier than otherwise in your room?

[QUOTE=DazeUp;2476003]There are many poor people in LOS, if you're trying to help the poor you hit the wrong demographic. Girls that are getting around 3000 for an hour's work don't really fit into this demographic that you're looking to help out of the kindness of your heart.[/QUOTE]I usually have targeted those who typically ask about 1000 baht. My thinking on this is they are poor relative to sex workers in my home country. Also relative to first world escorts, those in the Land of Smiles are more likely to be engaged in this line of employment to help more people, such as poor family members, relatives, friends, etc. Often these are those living in poor villages.

OTOH, if you can believe what I read somewhere the other day, one could go to a place like Bangladesh, even poorer, & help "pay for play" females who may only ask three dollars for their services. I'll call that an "inside tip" for "cheap charlies" everywhere;.

[QUOTE=DazeUp;2476003]And here is the line that gives it all away and proves a lot of mongers here are correct when they talk about spoiling the market and raising rates if there is enough of this logic going around. Please bear with me on this one. I live in a country where people get by with 300 USD a month. It's not a great living but we get by. Being that's the case, girls are happy to accept 20 USD per session, they'll accept less but are happy with it because they make that 300 USD in a week rather that in a month.

Along comes Freddie who pays 200 USD per session in his home country. Gives a model girl 50 USD for her service based on his logic that its way more costly where he comes from. Word gets around that Freddie's can pay that much, girls start asking for 50 from the many Freddie's coming into town. Model girls no longer happy that they're getting paid the same rate as regular sue, so they start asking Freddie's for 80 USD and get it because Freddie just paid 50 for Sue. And the wheel keeps spinning.[/QUOTE]No doubt paying over market rates occurs by a percentage of customers. And this has affected the thinking of certain Thai ladies. Though how much it has raised prices has not, to my knowledge, been scientifically studied. Would you care to guess how much it has raised prices, if anything at all? And if so, what evidence leads you to your conclusion.

Over payment is not merely a uniquely Thailand phenomenon, but there are johns doing this everywhere. In Canada over years rates have been rising like crazy. Possibly due to factors such as inflation, the influx of rich Chinese, economic prosperity or whatever.

With the coronavirus situation, however, we may be seeing things change for the better for those still able to afford this hobby. Fewer clients & more workers. Supply & demand. And, for some, Bangladesh still awaits them as a, so to speak, unexplored or "virgin" territory. Go forth and conquer! And, as a bank commercial said, "save your money"!

[QUOTE=DazeUp;2476003]If she is reluctant to BBFS to begin with, better not pressure / entice her to do it with more money. This is the opposite of being kind hearted. Find another that is ok with it. This has been discussed extensively in ETs posts, kindly read.[/QUOTE]Maybe she is reluctant for no reason other than she expects more money. If she says no, then you can leave it at that. No means no. Except, of course, when it means "2000 not enough, 3000", LOL. It may also mean "I have HIV" or "I don't want to get pregnant" or "I have a boyfriend", etc.

[QUOTE=DazeUp;2476003]It's clear that you have been identified as a mark and targeted on more that one occasion, never have the more sensible mongers heard girls speaking about getting 100 k from other mongers because the girls have not marked them.[/QUOTE]As long as she doesn't "mark" me as a tomcat does, I'm good with her thinking whatever she likes and me not knowing it. As they say, "ignorance is bliss"! Be well, live long and fuck!

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2476130]They are deliberately trying to destroy the whole market and hobby for their own selfish purposes? No fucking way.[/QUOTE]I am not an economist so those knowledgeable on the subject may correct me. No doubt there are many capitalists who are mongers, highly likely the vast majority; so like a true capitalist Freddie may want to corner the market. Fucking way.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2476240]I am not an economist so those knowledgeable on the subject may correct me. No doubt there are many capitalists who are mongers, highly likely the vast majority; so like a true capitalist Freddie may want to corner the market. Fucking way.[/QUOTE]In favor of a few destroying the market / hobby for the greater good?

In USA there are anti monopolistic laws because this is never good for the market, why do you think that is?

Do you want to rationalize the pathetic methods some mongers use to damage the market for all, is that what your objective is?

Then call it "winning" or "ballin."

[QUOTE=Turgid;2476240]I am not an economist so those knowledgeable on the subject may correct me. No doubt there are many capitalists who are mongers, highly likely the vast majority; so like a true capitalist Freddie may want to corner the market. Fucking way.[/QUOTE]Hello dear friends,

What is the latest to get into Thailand I miss BKK: is the flights and visa open.

Apologies but I am not so well versed maybe some of you on the ground have latest and correct information.

[QUOTE=Alex7J;2476281]Hello dear friends,

What is the latest to get into Thailand I miss BKK: is the flights and visa open.

Apologies but I am not so well versed maybe some of you on the ground have latest and correct information.[/QUOTE]Alex,

To all intents and purposes the borders are closed inbound. There is no appetite from either the government or most of the population (operators and staff of tourism related businesses aside) to reopen them any time soon. Any relaxation will involve 14 days quarantine at a cost of 30,000 baht and upwards depending upon the facility chosen. That's 2 weeks isolation in a hotel room at your own expense with meals left outside the cell door by hazmat suited staff and similarly attired security ensuring that your only interaction with anyone is by Line chat etc. They don't do self-isolation or stay at home notices here.

A friend who waited months to return to his home and wife in Thailand (spouses are one of the few categories of foreigner allowed in) tells me that any breach, even chatting with your neighbour in the corridor when picking up your meal, is an extra 14 days quarantine (for which you must pay) and a fine under the emergency decree which theoretically means up to 100,000 baht.

The Ministry of Tourism and Sport have today again put out some hot air about travel schemes from 1 October but every previous such proposal like travel bubbles, covid corridors, island isolation has been quickly and firmly stamped on by the medics and PM who make up the CCSA. Most likely the minister is just going through the motions so he can tell the tourism industry he's trying.

Awesome reply.

You echo my thoughts on some punters coming and spoiling the market.

AL.

[QUOTE=DazeUp;2476003]Yes, tip away, but I don't think the OP was talking about tipping, he was talking about paying over market price.

There are many poor people in LOS, if you're trying to help the poor you hit the wrong demographic. Girls that are getting around 3000 for an hour's work don't really fit into this demographic that you're looking to help out of the kindness of your heart.

And here is the line that gives it all away and proves a lot of mongers here are correct when they talk about spoiling the market and raising rates if there is enough of this logic going around. Please bear with me on this one. I live in a country where people get by with 300 USD a month. It's not a great living but we get by. Being that's the case, girls are happy to accept 20 USD per session, they'll accept less but are happy with it because they make that 300 USD in a week rather that in a month.

Along comes Freddie who pays 200 USD per session in his home country. Gives a model girl 50 USD for her service based on his logic that its way more costly where he comes from. Word gets around that Freddie's can pay that much, girls start asking for 50 from the many Freddie's coming into town. Model girls no longer happy that they're getting paid the same rate as regular sue, so they start asking Freddie's for 80 USD and get it because Freddie just paid 50 for Sue. And the wheel keeps spinning.

If she is reluctant to BBFS to begin with, better not pressure / entice her to do it with more money. This is the opposite of being kind hearted. Find another that is ok with it. This has been discussed extensively in ETs posts, kindly read.

It's clear that you have been identified as a mark and targeted on more that one occasion, never have the more sensible mongers heard girls speaking about getting 100 k from other mongers because the girls have not marked them.

It's not the lady keeping you as a regular, it's you keeping her as a regular.

Thanks, it does.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2476251]In favor of a few destroying the market / hobby for the greater good?

In USA there are anti monopolistic laws because this is never good for the market, why do you think that is?

Do you want to rationalize the pathetic methods some mongers use to damage the market for all, is that what your objective is?

Then call it "winning" or "ballin."[/QUOTE]Sadly there are many of our brethren who don't consider there are others after them. If the scene or "market" is ruined, eventually it's ruined for all of us.

Covid has brought a refreshing return to the old days with prices down and performance up. I'd wager just about any Go-Go gal can be had for 1500. It is the gals competing for us. And that's the way it should be. For those of you who have been here less than a decade, this is what it was like.
Sadly as soon as the hordes return from East Asia, Singapore, and HK, it'll be back to high prices and gals doing far less than they are now.

Enjoy it while it lasts.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2476386]Sadly there are many of our brethren who don't consider there are others after them. If the scene or "market" is ruined, eventually it's ruined for all of us............[/QUOTE]I guarantee that you will not find one monger with lots of disposable income who will consider that there are others after him. In a capitalist world money rules and its each man for himself.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2476417]I guarantee that you will not find one monger with lots of disposable income who will consider that there are others after him. In a capitalist world money rules and its each man for himself.[/QUOTE]Some people are as you describe. But I believe well to do mongers care about value and few mongers want to be taken advantage of. I will splurge and possibly overpay for someone special at most once per trip. But that is my limit.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2476417]I guarantee that you will not find one monger with lots of disposable income who will consider that there are others after him. In a capitalist world money rules and its each man for himself.[/QUOTE]Each man for himself, then why are you on this forum? Parasitic much?

Each man for himself= assholes.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2476474]..........Each man for himself= assholes.[/QUOTE]Are you saying that all capitalists are assholes?

[QUOTE=Turgid;2476490]Are you saying that all capitalists are assholes?[/QUOTE]So says all Democrats, Leftists, Black Lives Matter, and ANTIFA! Capitalism is the bane of mankind. Socialism rules! Communism needs a second chance! All white Americans are racists! The Chinese Communist Party operatives are having a field day of smearing everything and everyone, because when smoke clears the PRC will rule the world!

[QUOTE=Rodwint2;2476503]So says all Democrats, Leftists, Black Lives Matter, and ANTIFA! Capitalism is the bane of mankind. Socialism rules! Communism needs a second chance! All white Americans are racists! The Chinese Communist Party operatives are having a field day of smearing everything and everyone, because when smoke clears the PRC will rule the world![/QUOTE]The Democrats, BLM and Antifa are all capitalist. China is a capitalist country, it has 389 billionaires and God knows how many millionaires, second only to the US. Look at the videos most of the BLM protesters all over the US are white. I tell you this whole world is topsy turvy.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2476417]I guarantee that you will not find one monger with lots of disposable income who will consider that there are others after him. In a capitalist world money rules and its each man for himself.[/QUOTE]That's not really the case. Capitalism is failing because the modern corporate version has forgotten that cooperation is a cornerstone of any economic system that wishes to be sustainable. Capitalism is in it's end stages. Just like mercantilism before and feudalism before that it will be replaced by another system. What will that system be? I'm not sure we know at this point. But if we want to continue on this planet as a species it will have to take into account more cooperative systems and systems that are less exploitive and are less harsh on the environment. And just like late stage capitalism has led to the stripping of the planet's resources, and the degradation of the environment, and overpopulation by fostering a me me me attitude, it has also had a profound impact on our hobby.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2476524] a me me me attitude, it has also had a profound impact on our hobby.[/QUOTE]I was shocked at the behavior of mongers during my first visit to FKK, there were Asians that were trying to "hoard" the hookers like they were gold bars.

So I asked my best friend that is Korean why they cannot share, they are hookers after all, you know "you go, I go, he goes".

They are hookers not your girlfriend.

I guess some people that are really "thirsty" don't understand that.

Thank you guys for all the political knowledge I'm gaining on this supposed SEX board. Your highly qualified expertise has convinced me that your political viewpoints are the correct ones! It will help me when I vote for Taylor Swift as the next President. Is Tina Fey running for President again? Hated when she lost last time.

I'm a huge fan of Ovechkin who plays for the Washington Capitalists!

Welcome to IPG guys!

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2476386]
...
Covid has brought a refreshing return to the old days with prices down and performance up. I'd wager just about any Go-Go gal can be had for 1500. It is the gals competing for us. And that's the way it should be. For those of you who have been here less than a decade, this is what it was like.
Sadly as soon as the hordes return from East Asia, Singapore, and HK, it'll be back to high prices and gals doing far less than they are now.

Enjoy it while it lasts.[/QUOTE]Can't say I am finding that to be true about go-go girls above a minimally doable 7 that I have encountered yet. And I hit a few go-go bars to buy LDs and interview girls 3-4 times per week now.

I'm not interviewing less attractive ones than that so I can't say what they are offering for less these days. But when I interview the ones that are clearly the better looking ones without much mental gymnastics and debate about it, the vast majority are not agreeing to one iota more than the dismal basic standard fare they would have agreed to for the most free spending, low demand Capitalist they jumped on during normal times.

That is from Playskool and Cactus Bar to Billboard and Baccara and several in between. Wish I could say otherwise. But it is not there yet for me.

Will they go along with 1,500 baht for that same dismal minimum level of service instead of 2,000 - 2,500 baht? I get a sense they probably would if I worked it longer, bought a couple more LDs. But I have so little interest in working longer for nothing special regardless of the discount I just move on to another bar. And neither the girls nor the mamasans seem the least bit interested in stopping me to find out why and if there is something they can do to change my mind.

This is aside from the couple of mamasans I know who will go the extra millimeter to bring me a suitable girl to justify my spending anything on them. And I can get new suitable ones without their help, of course. But not at any higher rate of success or for notably less baht than during normal times.

Same with better looking beer bar girls, FLs on the street, in Thermae, etc.

As always, YMMV.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2476535]Can't say I am finding that to be true about go-go girls above a minimally doable 7 that I have encountered yet. And I hit a few go-go bars to buy LDs and interview girls 3-4 times per week now.

I'm not interviewing less attractive ones than that so I can't say what they are offering for less these days. But when I interview the ones that are clearly the better looking ones without much mental gymnastics and debate about it, the vast majority are not agreeing to one iota more than the dismal basic standard fare they would have agreed to for the most free spending, low demand Capitalist they jumped on during normal times.

That is from Playskool and Cactus Bar to Billboard and Baccara and several in between. Wish I could say otherwise. But it is not there yet for me.

Will they go along with 1,500 baht for that same dismal minimum level of service instead of 2,000 - 2,500 baht? I get a sense they probably would if I worked it longer, bought a couple more LDs. But I have so little interest in working longer for nothing special regardless of the discount I just move on to another bar. And neither the girls nor the mamasans seem the least bit interested in stopping me to find out why and if there is something they can do to change my mind.

This is aside from the couple of mamasans I know who will go the extra millimeter to bring me a suitable girl to justify my spending anything on them. And I can get new suitable ones without their help, of course. But not at any higher rate of success or for notably less baht than during normal times.

Same with better looking beer bar girls, FLs on the street, in Thermae, etc.

As always, YMMV.[/QUOTE]Of course with your particular requirements, I am not surprised that you are finding things not so different. But for those of us that don't require BBFS + CIP, then the hunting is a bit better just due to the fact there are not so many dudes around.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2476386]Sadly there are many of our brethren who don't consider there are others after them. If the scene or "market" is ruined, eventually it's ruined for all of us.

Covid has brought a refreshing return to the old days with prices down and performance up. I'd wager just about any Go-Go gal can be had for 1500. It is the gals competing for us. And that's the way it should be. For those of you who have been here less than a decade, this is what it was like.
Sadly as soon as the hordes return from East Asia, Singapore, and HK, it'll be back to high prices and gals doing far less than they are now.

Enjoy it while it lasts.[/QUOTE]Nice to see Goatscrot that your nostalgia for the good ole days is at last a little closer to being realized. I've commented before on what for me at least is the amazing new reality of a visit to a go go bar. Little or no competition which means almost all girls are available without hesitation. I wasn't a go go fan before, the hustle, too crowded, lady drinks, bar fines. Feeling if there were young Asians sitting beside me I would have to settle for less than the top talent. It's still not the cheapest shag in town, lady drinks and bar fines are still as far as I can make out as they were but I now pay no more than 2000 for the girls time. As to service again not having a lot of experience with go go girls, nor having special needs, I cannot tell if there is a difference in their enthusiasm to give you a good time but mostly I have been happy. I sympathize with our members who are unable to be here even more so knowing when finally they are allowed back in it will be most likely be back to business as usual and the good ole days will again become nostalgia.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2476558]Of course with your particular requirements, I am not surprised that you are finding things not so different. But for those of us that don't require BBFS + CIP, then the hunting is a bit better just due to the fact there are not so many dudes around.[/QUOTE]Granted. And that would explain the "prices down" part of it.

But for any and all punters who were already getting plenty of Covered FS as it was routinely provided by all girls during normal times at then current rates, what would you say is the "performance up" part being agreed to more freely by the better lookers these days?

I mean, that required a Pandemic of epic proportions and near catestrophic worldwide economic disaster to the level of something like 1 customer for every 100+ girls for them to finally start agreeing to provide?

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2476570]Granted. And that would explain the "prices down" part of it.

But for any and all punters who were already getting plenty of Covered FS as it was routinely provided by all girls during normal times at then current rates, what would you say is the "performance up" part being agreed to more freely by the better lookers these days?

I mean, that required a Pandemic of epic proportions and near catestrophic worldwide economic disaster to the level of something like 1 customer for every 100+ girls for them to finally start agreeing to provide?[/QUOTE]I have a few friends who have started frequenting GoGos again after many years. Gals are willing to grab your unit, provide some hardcore fondling, and even heard of some hummers being given in bars where gals were not really allowing touching. And yes, these gals are going for less than they were pre-Covid. And some of the better lookers as well. This is what it was like 20 years ago folks.

Buddy in Pattaya, who has your BBFS requirement minus the CIP, was paying 1. 5-2 k for his gals off Thai Friendly (many of whom are quite good looking) and now he starts at an offer of 800 and usually pays no more than 1 k.

Yep, what it has taken is the tourists (namely Asians) to be gone. And most of the punters left here are Western guys. We're more demanding and aren't willing to pay exorbitant prices for service that is less than we received years ago. We demand good attitudes, looks and good service. We want GFEs and PSEs from every session. And if the gals want to make money, that is what they have to provide.

But, this will be the end of the line. When tourism returns to normal and the Asian dudes return, the gals will go right back to getting 3 k or so for providing very little and we will really be pariahs then.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2476535]Can't say I am finding that to be true about go-go girls above a minimally doable 7 that I have encountered yet. And I hit a few go-go bars to buy LDs and interview girls 3-4 times per week now.

I'm not interviewing less attractive ones than that so I can't say what they are offering for less these days. But when I interview the ones that are clearly the better looking ones without much mental gymnastics and debate about it, the vast majority are not agreeing to one iota more than the dismal basic standard fare they would have agreed to for the most free spending, low demand Capitalist they jumped on during normal times.

That is from Playskool and Cactus Bar to Billboard and Baccara and several in between. Wish I could say otherwise. But it is not there yet for me.

Will they go along with 1,500 baht for that same dismal minimum level of service instead of 2,000 - 2,500 baht? I get a sense they probably would if I worked it longer, bought a couple more LDs. But I have so little interest in working longer for nothing special regardless of the discount I just move on to another bar. And neither the girls nor the mamasans seem the least bit interested in stopping me to find out why and if there is something they can do to change my mind. .[/QUOTE]ET I get your BBFS plus CIP requirement to enjoy sex, I do but are you suggesting that girls who don't do BBFS because they don't want to risk their health only provide what you describe as a "dismal minimum level of service" and "dismal basic standard fare".

Sure if sex is no more than sticking your dick into that orifice between her legs and pounding away till you cum then maybe but for me and if I may be presumptuous for others as well there is a lot more going on.

Obviously it's not the same for all but personally as part of a session I enjoy starting with a sensual massage then exploring her body. When we get going I like rimming, cat licking, BBBJ, DATY, 69, like some role playing (use your imagination) and the use of toys, a little spanking giving and receiving, sometimes not always but when its OK with the girl doing anal or finishing with a hand job on her face or if she looks like she wants me to in her mouth, during all of this some dirty talking particularly at the right time. The main event, my covered dick in her pussy exploring which action she prefers, hands under her ass, feet up or around my body body, hard soft, quick slow, stay in and move, almost out and back in, fully out and back in and doing all of these in a variety of positions, doggy being one my favorites.

Yes if its BB its better but the diminution of tactile sensation is not such that it's ah fuck this for a game of soldiers I can't feel anything situation. Also the quality of condoms nowadays is pretty good and helps a lot but mostly it's the peace of mind that I'm not pissing razor blades a week later or taking meds for the rest of my life.

I've learned over the years the most important sex organ is the brain which brings me to that most desirable of happenings, chemistry. If the girl likes me, if she has the imagination, the skill set, the energy and most importantly the desire to make me happy wearing a condom does not mean the sex is basic or dismal, far far from it.

The Invisible Man.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2476628]ET I get your BBFS plus CIP requirement to enjoy sex, I do but are you suggesting that girls who don't do BBFS because they don't want to risk their health only provide what you describe as a "dismal minimum level of service" and "dismal basic standard fare".

Sure if sex is no more than sticking your dick into that orifice between her legs and pounding away till you cum then maybe but for me and if I may be presumptuous for others as well there is a lot more going on.

Obviously it's not the same for all but personally as part of a session I enjoy starting with a sensual massage then exploring her body. When we get going I like rimming, cat licking, BBBJ, DATY, 69, like some role playing (use your imagination) and the use of toys, a little spanking giving and receiving, sometimes not always but when its OK with the girl doing anal or finishing with a hand job on her face or if she looks like she wants me to in her mouth, during all of this some dirty talking particularly at the right time. The main event, my covered dick in her pussy exploring which action she prefers, hands under her ass, feet up or around my body body, hard soft, quick slow, stay in and move, almost out and back in, fully out and back in and doing all of these in a variety of positions, doggy being one my favorites.

Yes if its BB its better but the diminution of tactile sensation is not such that it's ah fuck this for a game of soldiers I can't feel anything situation. Also the quality of condoms nowadays is pretty good and helps a lot but mostly it's the peace of mind that I'm not pissing razor blades a week later or taking meds for the rest of my life.

I've learned over the years the most important sex organ is the brain which brings me to that most desirable of happenings, chemistry. If the girl likes me, if she has the imagination, the skill set, the energy and most importantly the desire to make me happy wearing a condom does not mean the sex is basic or dismal, far far from it.

The Invisible Man.[/QUOTE]Sounds like.

Your describing eating some nice birthday cake with all the frostings and candles etc.

But its just a shell, no cake inside, just a sad prank.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2476628]Yes if its BB its better but the diminution of tactile sensation is not such that it's ah fuck this for a game of soldiers I can't feel anything situation. Also the quality of condoms nowadays is pretty good and helps a lot but mostly it's the peace of mind that I'm not pissing razor blades a week later or taking meds for the rest of my life.[/QUOTE]I can relate to everything that ET writes, we are both older than most posters. I still stay covered for the first session of the day, but the second session is always difficult while covered (and sometimes impossible). I only spend 30 to 60 days per year in Thailand and I try to make the most of every day.

The situation of "I can't feel anything" seems to be age related. When I was 45 I needed a cover to lessen the sensation to keep me from popping on about the 3rd stroke. Now, with those same covers I can't maintain erection for even the first pop. The Trojan Magnum Bareskin with additional silicone lube on the inside is OK for my first pop, but often I can't perform twice a day like that.

If BBFS CIP were just a matter of an extra 1000 baht, I'd pay it every time. I've had a vasectomy so my real concern is diseases.

[QUOTE=HorseTrader;2476703]Now, with those same covers I can't maintain erection for even the first pop. The Trojan Magnum Bareskin with additional silicone lube on the inside is OK for my first pop, but often I can't perform twice a day like that.[/QUOTE]Sildenafil Citrate works perfectly for maintaining erection, and it costs as low as 50-100 baht / dose depending on how much you need. For me, half a 50 MG pill works just fine. Far easier, cheaper, safer, and less anti-social than trying to convince an unwilling or reluctant working girl to go bareback.

Decent looking girls are so few and far between these days I couldn't imagine intentionally narrowing my playing field to 20%-30% or so of those available (and that's on the uglier / older side, not randomly picked).

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2476628]ET I get your BBFS plus CIP requirement to enjoy sex, I do but are you suggesting that girls who don't do BBFS because they don't want to risk their health only provide what you describe as a "dismal minimum level of service" and "dismal basic standard fare".

Sure if sex is no more than sticking your dick into that orifice between her legs and pounding away till you cum then maybe but for me and if I may be presumptuous for others as well there is a lot more going on.

Obviously it's not the same for all but personally as part of a session I enjoy starting with a sensual massage then exploring her body. When we get going I like rimming, cat licking, BBBJ, DATY, 69, like some role playing (use your imagination) and the use of toys, a little spanking giving and receiving, sometimes not always but when its OK with the girl doing anal or finishing with a hand job on her face or if she looks like she wants me to in her mouth, during all of this some dirty talking particularly at the right time. The main event, my covered dick in her pussy exploring which action she prefers, hands under her ass, feet up or around my body body, hard soft, quick slow, stay in and move, almost out and back in, fully out and back in and doing all of these in a variety of positions, doggy being one my favorites.

Yes if its BB its better but the diminution of tactile sensation is not such that it's ah fuck this for a game of soldiers I can't feel anything situation. Also the quality of condoms nowadays is pretty good and helps a lot but mostly it's the peace of mind that I'm not pissing razor blades a week later or taking meds for the rest of my life.

I've learned over the years the most important sex organ is the brain which brings me to that most desirable of happenings, chemistry. If the girl likes me, if she has the imagination, the skill set, the energy and most importantly the desire to make me happy wearing a condom does not mean the sex is basic or dismal, far far from it.

The Invisible Man.[/QUOTE]Back to the point of my post you quoted, Franciscass, are you then saying the "performance up" you have noticed during these dire economic times is that the better looking go-go girls are now submitting to the rimming you require, going along with the toy play, the mutual spanking and so on much more readily and will perhaps even submit to these unusual requests of yours at deep discount rates more often now than they did during normal times when they had more alternative customer options and more money in their purse?

[QUOTE=HorseTrader;2476703]I can relate to everything that ET writes, we are both older than most posters. I still stay covered for the first session of the day, but the second session is always difficult while covered (and sometimes impossible). I only spend 30 to 60 days per year in Thailand and I try to make the most of every day.

The situation of "I can't feel anything" seems to be age related. When I was 45 I needed a cover to lessen the sensation to keep me from popping on about the 3rd stroke. Now, with those same covers I can't maintain erection for even the first pop. The Trojan Magnum Bareskin with additional silicone lube on the inside is OK for my first pop, but often I can't perform twice a day like that.

If BBFS CIP were just a matter of an extra 1000 baht, I'd pay it every time. I've had a vasectomy so my real concern is diseases.[/QUOTE]My deal killer lack of sensation problem with condoms started from the moment I first put one on for sex at age 19. And I have never had a premature ejaculation factor to deal with where wearing a condom could actually be an aid to prevent it.

Since then, 48 years later, it has not been all that difficult to find many, many willing partners for bareback CIP sex, both paid and unpaid. Based on my historical record and also leading right up to my most recent routine tests about 10 days ago, there has been no incidence or evidence of long term (or even meaningful short term) health issues for me or any of my partners from it.

But that is me. If I'd had problems along the way as others have mentioned I probably would have found one special GF, married her and remained monogamous all these years.

The vasectomy has contributed greatly to reducing long term health and financial risk from going bareback for me and my partners.

I would say if a girl, hooker or not, just maintained an ongoing birth control regime (I like the tiny time release pellet arm implants many girls opt for) and demanded to see a recent negative/normal HIV and STD test result document before agreeing to engage in BBFS+CIP with any man they would reduce the risk of long or short term health issues to near zero at an extremely low cost to them. I do recommend those 2 safety measures to many of my partners.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2476777]Back to the point of my post you quoted, Franciscass, are you then saying the "performance up" you have noticed during these dire economic times is that the better looking go-go girls are now submitting to the rimming you require, going along with the toy play, the mutual spanking and so on much more readily and will perhaps even submit to these unusual requests of yours at deep discount rates more often now than they did during normal times when they had more alternative customer options and more money in their purse?[/QUOTE]Short answer, yes.

I am not saying the axis of the earth's orbit has recently shifted or that every session I have now involves toys light spanking rimming and so on, that's the holy grail, but I have noticed firstly a definite sense of appreciation that I choose her to give my money to and secondly a more enthusiastic attitude in ensuring I have a good time and if it involves something they don't have a fundamental issue with it's now more likely to be OK.

Also ET just to clarify I don't require rimming etc to go with a girl. I'm fortunate in that I can enjoy a session without the trimmings if she is fun to be with and she genuinely tries to give me a good time and leave me happy even when her skill set is somewhat limited.

[QUOTE=CzarNicholas;2476671]Sounds like.

Your describing eating some nice birthday cake with all the frostings and candles etc.

But its just a shell, no cake inside, just a sad prank.[/QUOTE]Now that's so cruel, a hollow birthday cake and to make matters worse I never liked frosting even as a kid. More to the point Czar I'm not sure it works on any level as an analogy on what's being discussed here. Is it possible to have another stab at it with maybe a little more creativity this time? For inspiration and in deference to your Russian handle may I suggest you read some Dostoevsky or Tolstoy.

The invisible Man.

Does anyone here know a place near Nana Plaza, Soi Cowboy, Thermae, Soi 11, Soi 24, and Patpong where I can get cheap Durex condoms and Viagra. One shop for each item at each location would be very helpful.

How long does my boner last with Viagra? I don't really need it but if I'm forced to wear a condom and a mask I better be prepared to buy some.

I know BBFS is safe since no member here ever reports of diseases after BBFS but will I get HIV or COVID with a BBBJ or a BBHJ?

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2476824]Does anyone here know a place near Nana Plaza, Soi Cowboy, Thermae, Soi 11, Soi 24, and Patpong where I can get cheap Durex condoms and Viagra. One shop for each item at each location would be very helpful.

How long does my boner last with Viagra? I don't really need it but if I'm forced to wear a condom and a mask I better be prepared to buy some.

I know BBFS is safe since no member here ever reports of diseases after BBFS but will I get HIV or COVID with a BBBJ or a BBHJ?[/QUOTE]You haven't read guys on ISG saying they caught a dose of something after doing BBFS? I have read it. I have even read reports from guys who claim to always or almost always wear a condom for sex getting a dose of something. And an unplanned baby.

You can get Covid just breathing next to a man, woman or child who is a carrier for it. Having sex with a partner or alone is not necessary.

Any pharmacy or drug store will have the condoms and Viagra you are looking for, price varies. Try the pharmacy in Foodland Soi 5, Sukhumvit Road.

Lately I have bought Sidegra, the Thai made version of Viagra, in that pharmacy. Four tablets 100mg each for 200 baht.

When I pop one of those tablets about an hour before sex, my erection lasts as long as I need it to last for at least an hour or until I ejaculate, sometimes for another 15-20 minutes after I ejaculate. And I will get another similarily responding erection several hours later if I am sexually stimulated, say the next morning, on that same dose.

However, that is the way it works for me when I am not wearing a condom. The many times I have popped boner pills and tried this or that highly recommended condom I can count on my erection lasting about 30 seconds with no possible ejaculation as far off in the distance as the mind can imagine or until the condom rots from the weather and elements and simply falls off on its own, whichever happens first.

As always, YMMV.

Oh, HIV? Avoid engaging in receptive anal sex, even when your partner is wearing a condom since the incidence of condoms breaking or coming off during anal sex is apparently relatively high. Other than that, it is extremely rare for a man to get HIV from vaginal or oral sex unless there is a rather obvious co-factor involved like you having a big open sore on your penis while fucking or getting sucked by an HIV-Positive partner.

HIV transmission from a Hand Job? Never heard of it happening. But if you are breathing heavily, struggling to get off during the HJ and the HJ provider is a carrier, you are probably at very high risk of getting Covid, even if you are wearing a mask.

Btw, the heavy breathing and struggling to get off issue probably greatly increases your chances of contracting or transmitting Covid whenever a condom is involved for any other kind of sex as well, mask or no mask.

Very soon I will putting the over-priced island behind me and making my way to live in BKK for the first time.

My only experience was once at Nana plaza where there was a convenient hotel located inside the plaza.

A quick question to the fellow mongers here, are there any short time hotels on Soi Cowboy? I can't take any of the girls back to my new pad as the missus wouldn't like that very much.

How are things in general in BKK girls wise? Have they put up their prices or gone down, would be good to hear an update?

Cheers.

[QUOTE=DiffPiddy;2476851]Very soon I will putting the over-priced island behind me and making my way to live in BKK for the first time.

My only experience was once at Nana plaza where there was a convenient hotel located inside the plaza.

A quick question to the fellow mongers here, are there any short time hotels on Soi Cowboy? I can't take any of the girls back to my new pad as the missus wouldn't like that very much.

How are things in general in BKK girls wise? Have they put up their prices or gone down, would be good to hear an update?

Cheers.[/QUOTE]There is a ST hotel on the Asoke side to the left of SC. I'm not 100% sure but there should also be one on the other side but the girls will be able to show you.

Yes, it was the one at 99 Sukhumvit Soi 6 Road.

And they let a girl up to come see me, it was guest friendly.

And I went into the bar in the basement, it was full of very pretty freelancers. Primo talent, actually.

[QUOTE=GettingFedUp;2464173]TL,

Are you sure it's the Grand Sukhumvit Hotel you refer to? On Suk Soi 6, coming from Soi 4 it's on the right hand side just before the Soi turns left and heads up to Sukhumvit? My surprise is because last I heard a couple of years ago this hotel was reported as joiner unfriendly (I don't recall whether it was an absolute prohibition or THB 1500 joiner fee) and was removed from the various guest / joiner friendly hotel sites. Their main market became tour groups by the busload and it seems unlikely to me that a "family friendly" hotel would be allowing freelancers into the bar / nightclub.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=DiffPiddy;2476851]Very soon I will putting the over-priced island behind me and making my way to live in BKK for the first time.

My only experience was once at Nana plaza where there was a convenient hotel located inside the plaza.

A quick question to the fellow mongers here, are there any short time hotels on Soi Cowboy? I can't take any of the girls back to my new pad as the missus wouldn't like that very much.

How are things in general in BKK girls wise? Have they put up their prices or gone down, would be good to hear an update?

Cheers.[/QUOTE]As you get into Asoke road from Soi Cowboy turn right and in less than 10 meters you should see one. Asoke21 I believe it is the name. You need to go up the escalator to the second floor to get in. If you make it to the 7 eleven you have gone too far. I am not sure about current pricing, I believe it used to be 300 THB /2 hours.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2476824]Does anyone here know a place near Nana Plaza, Soi Cowboy, Thermae, Soi 11, Soi 24, and Patpong where I can get cheap Durex condoms and Viagra. One shop for each item at each location would be very helpful.

How long does my boner last with Viagra? I don't really need it but if I'm forced to wear a condom and a mask I better be prepared to buy some.

I know BBFS is safe since no member here ever reports of diseases after BBFS but will I get HIV or COVID with a BBBJ or a BBHJ?[/QUOTE]From what I read here, you have no self esteem if you don't BBFS CIP+CIA girls who've been doing 3 to 5 customers a day for the past 10 years.

Only people who get sick are people who wear condoms or get HJs. HJ is the first way of getting a girl pregnant (less likely lately though as they wash their hands more often because of covid).

[QUOTE=Sinofaguo;2477143]From what I read here, you have no self esteem if you don't BBFS .[/QUOTE]Any monger is better off staying home and watching porn for free, you will have more fun, I promise.

BBFS with pros? So much long term risk for short term cum, LOL. When I was in Bangkok my friend only had sex with three girls but with the last one the condom broke. He got Gonorrhea and gave to his girlfriend, it sucked for him.

I take showers after every session and only pay girls for sex only if they shower in front of me. This is not only good for me but I'm protecting the girls and why'all from catching anything. What I love about Australian brothels is very session starts with a shower and mouthwash. Please tell me when the rest of the world will catch up?

Mongering has some risks we all accept that. I don't even BB tinder sluts in the USA. Well to each his own!

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2477146]Any monger is better off staying home and watching porn for free, you will have more fun, I promise.[/QUOTE]Doesn't that mean the person is no longer a monger?

Plus that's too much work, my arms will get tired.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2477146]Any monger is better off staying home and watching porn for free, you will have more fun, I promise.[/QUOTE]Yeah but noooo. I'd rather have my dick in some WAP before I hunker down to slap my salami. Thats not mongering, dude.

[QUOTE=LivingFossil;2477175].......... This is not only good for me but I'm protecting the girls and y'all from catching anything...........[/QUOTE]This is called looking out for your fellow monger; better than the longest report on ISG.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2477280]This is called looking out for your fellow monger; better than the longest report on ISG.[/QUOTE]LMAO come on guys its altruistic.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2477280]This is called looking out for your fellow monger; better than the longest report on ISG.[/QUOTE]I think age plays a role here as well. As we get older it's much easier to say, f7 ck it, I don't have a lot of time left and I want to enjoy it as much as I can. I would imagine that most of the dudes railing against the bare-backers are under 50. Hitting your 50's is a slap in the face, it's tough, not an easy transition, and you know that no matter how much you take care of yourself, that the road is downhill. And, for those of us who think Covid is simply a warm up for the devastation and disruption climate change will cause over the next decade, then making the most of these times is essential. So I completely understand the BBFS stance, although not a requirement for me. Might as well enjoy yourself.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2477309]I think age plays a role here as well. As we get older it's much easier to say, f7 ck it, I don't have a lot of time left and I want to enjoy it as much as I can. I would imagine that most of the dudes railing against the bare-backers are under 50. Hitting your 50's is a slap in the face, it's tough, not an easy transition, and you know that no matter how much you take care of yourself, that the road is downhill. And, for those of us who think Covid is simply a warm up for the devastation and disruption climate change will cause over the next decade, then making the most of these times is essential. So I completely understand the BBFS stance, although not a requirement for me. Might as well enjoy yourself.[/QUOTE]I never thought I would get old, even in my 49th year I felt 20 yo.

Then I hit 50 and all of sudden I'm like WTF happened my vision is going, lots more wrinkles and grey hair, boner issues, libido issues memory issues.

You name it, I used to look in the mirror and think this is awesome I'm not aging, but one day I was thinking this can't last forever, some guys age gradually I thought its going to hit one day.

And it will probably all come at once as its been doing just that for 3 yrs, every day new aches and pains, memory is spottier LOL.

YOLO.

"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!

Hunter S Thompson.

A little understanding on BBFS.

The data and science shows there are health risks associated with BBFS. It's not fake news.

I's not against any law I am aware of to have sex without a condom so long as there is consent on both sides.

Consequently we should accept everybody's right to go BB with consenting partners unless they know they are infected in which case they should be criminally prosecuted for assault.

We need to understand some men cannot enjoy sex wearing a condom.

Each girl has the right to say no and should not be induced, enticed, bribed or in any way coerced in to having BBFS if she initially refuses to.

Girls who don't go BB should not be denigrated for being concerned about their health.

Live and let live.

[QUOTE=LivingFossil;2477175]What I love about Australian brothels is very session starts with a shower and mouthwash. Please tell me when the rest of the world will catch up?[/QUOTE]Pre-and post-sex mutual showers are standard in my hotel room and most of my other Thailand venues. There are a few times that the girl wants to shower separately, which is sometimes OK with me.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2477309]I think age plays a role here as well. As we get older it's much easier to say, f7 ck it, I don't have a lot of time left and I want to enjoy it as much as I can. I would imagine that most of the dudes railing against the bare-backers are under 50. Hitting your 50's is a slap in the face, it's tough...[/QUOTE]It hit me on my 60th birthday. I was in a nice Tijuana hotel with a sexy girl and couldn't finish because of the condom. Not a great birthday present. Since that time I've made sure that I get thin condoms and try for lube inside the condom, this helps but isn't perfect.

[QUOTE=HorseTrader;2477355]It hit me on my 60th birthday. I was in a nice Tijuana hotel with a sexy girl and couldn't finish because of the condom. Not a great birthday present. Since that time I've made sure that I get thin condoms and try for lube inside the condom, this helps but isn't perfect.[/QUOTE]I'm also in my sixties and yesterday I was banging this very young hooker at my place. I was using my Trojan magnum bareskin but just could not come try as hard as I may in various positions. At one point I really just wanted to pull out the condom and bang away but knew she would not allow that. When you are in the throes of coitus its hard to think about safety. My experience with lube on the inside is that the condom tends to slip out easily. I'm not as lucky as some guys on this board and getting an STD would cause me to miss out on a few sessions as it messes up my mind and nether regions for a few days.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2477441]...My experience with lube on the inside is that the condom tends to slip out easily.[/QUOTE]Yep. It's not perfect, but getting the condom all the way rolled out to the base helps. Getting a little soft makes the problem worse, so I'm constantly checking. If I'm going to go BB, I want both of us to be fully aware before it starts.

[QUOTE=LivingFossil;2477175]BBFS with pros? So much long term risk for short term cum, LOL. When I was in Bangkok my friend only had sex with three girls but with the last one the condom broke. He got Gonorrhea and gave to his girlfriend, it sucked for him.

I take showers after every session and only pay girls for sex only if they shower in front of me. This is not only good for me but I'm protecting the girls and why'all from catching anything. What I love about Australian brothels is very session starts with a shower and mouthwash. Please tell me when the rest of the world will catch up?

Mongering has some risks we all accept that. I don't even BB tinder sluts in the USA. Well to each his own![/QUOTE]For that reason. I always see Asians and escorts that shower together in Canada. They are little expensive compared to the regular Indies but always safe way to Monger.

[QUOTE=HorseTrader;2477443]Yep. It's not perfect, but getting the condom all the way rolled out to the base helps. Getting a little soft makes the problem worse, so I'm constantly checking. If I'm going to go BB, I want both of us to be fully aware before it starts.[/QUOTE]It just occurred to me while reading your post that perhaps I'm applying too much lube. Next time I'll apply some lube only to the head and immediate surroundings and leave the majority of the penis dry and see if the condom will stay on better.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2477639]It just occurred to me while reading your post that perhaps I'm applying too much lube. Next time I'll apply some lube only to the head and immediate surroundings and leave the majority of the penis dry and see if the condom will stay on better.[/QUOTE]Good thought, I'll try the same. The most difficulty I had was at Doki Doki when the lube was everywhere. Felt great, but had to keep adjusting the condom.

My expat friend who lives there just corrected me. I stayed in the Grand Hyatt Erawan and the bar in the basement with all the pretty girls was Spasso.

Here is a promo shot of some of the girls who tend to work there regularly.

[QUOTE=GettingFedUp;2464173]TL,
Are you sure it's the Grand Sukhumvit Hotel you refer to? On Suk Soi 6, coming from Soi 4 it's on the right hand side just before the Soi turns left and heads up to Sukhumvit? My surprise is because last I heard a couple of years ago this hotel was reported as joiner unfriendly (I don't recall whether it was an absolute prohibition or THB 1500 joiner fee) and was removed from the various guest / joiner friendly hotel sites. Their main market became tour groups by the busload and it seems unlikely to me that a "family friendly" hotel would be allowing freelancers into the bar / nightclub.[/QUOTE]

My expat friend just corrected me. I was staying at the Grand Hyatt Erawan, and the bar in the basement with VERY pretty girls was called Spasso.

Here's a promo pic I found on the web showing some of the regulars who work there.

[QUOTE=Tommylove;2477093]Yes, it was the one at 99 Sukhumvit Soi 6 Road.
And they let a girl up to come see me, it was guest friendly.
And I went into the bar in the basement, it was full of very pretty freelancers. Primo talent, actually.[/QUOTE]

Is it just me or are there at least 2 ladyboys in that picture?

[QUOTE=Tommylove;2477988]My expat friend who lives there just corrected me. I stayed in the Grand Hyatt Erawan and the bar in the basement with all the pretty girls was Spasso.

Here is a promo shot of some of the girls who tend to work there regularly.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Kazeu;2478001]Is it just me or are there at least 2 ladyboys in that picture?[/QUOTE]I guess most of them are LB's.

[QUOTE=Somewhere15;2478015]I guess most of them are LB's.[/QUOTE]I doubt that. This looks like a promo shot, it's from Pinterest. The 2 foreigners were probably hotel guests. Hyatt hotels regualrily use customer relation officers, I'd say the girl in the middle in black is one of those. Maybe 2 might be LB's but not most.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2477309]I think age plays a role here as well. As we get older it's much easier to say, f7 ck it, I don't have a lot of time left and I want to enjoy it as much as I can.[/QUOTE]Given this line of thinking Gilolollipop must be 90 years old to match the percentage of Thai and other SE Asian girls he gets BBFS with!

Yes, when I get to be 65+ and know my productive life is ending soon anyways I'm BBFS'ing every girl in sight.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2478117]Given this line of thinking Gilolollipop must be 90 years old to match the percentage of Thai and other SE Asian girls he gets BBFS with!

Yes, when I get to be 65+ and know my productive life is ending soon anyways I'm BBFS'ing every girl in sight.[/QUOTE]Prepare to be pissed off you didn't start sooner when you were shooting 5 wads per day and falling asleep going for a sixth.

[QUOTE=Somewhere15;2478015]I guess most of them are LB's.[/QUOTE]The foreigner male is a kind of manager (and in his early years), the female in black dress is also there frequently (at least till November 2019); guess she "works" there or makes some extra money. The picture is typical made during a special event (and in the old days there where many).

Go outside to the smoking area when you are there, good occasion to meet with the girls......or lb's!

Last time I went was years ago and I was unimpressed by the lineup. Now I've just seen the latest photo shoot on Stickman and am equally unimpressed. They mostly look like hardened, tattooed hookers with their best years behind them. Stretch marks are also evident. What's the best go-go bar in Bangkok for younger girls with decent bodies these days?

[blue][Deleted by Admin][/blue]

[u][b]EDITOR's NOTE[/b][/u]: [blue]This report was edited or deleted because it was an attempt by the author to encourage members to [u]CONTACT HIM on ANOTHER WEBSITE[/u]. In the future, please refrain from posting requests for forum members to contact you on another website. [i]Thanks![/i][/blue]

[QUOTE=*****man;2479236]Last time I went was years ago and I was unimpressed by the lineup. Now I've just seen the latest photo shoot on Stickman and am equally unimpressed. They mostly look like hardened, tattooed hookers with their best years behind them. Stretch marks are also evident. What's the best go-go bar in Bangkok for younger girls with decent bodies these days?[/QUOTE]For younger girls with decent bodies Butterflies is probably the overall best in Nana Plaza right now if for no other reason than the number of girls that fit that criteria. Mind you, by "decent" I am not thinking super hot bodies. Maybe not even all that hot. And a decent face might or might not be included.

I agree with you about the Billboard girls featured in that article. Was the photographer particularly attracted to girls with big ugly tattoos as some men are? Or were those the only girls who agreed to be photographed or were available to be photographed that day or night? I think there was one girl in the group I would have wanted to interview.

However, if you aren't as concerned about younger girls and want better than decent bodies and probably better faces, Billboard would generally beat Butterflies on those counts. Both of those bars seem to have the most customers these days. Maybe Stickman's repeated touting of them has contributed to that. I can't say either bar is working all that great for me as a source to barfine girl's from lately. So Stickman's idea of a great Bangkok go-go bar is obviously based on different criteria than mine.

I will add that conditions can change by the addition or subtraction of just 2-3 girls in a bar from night to night if not hour to hour now more than ever. I think current economic conditions are bringing new girls into the bars and just as fast losing them due to too few customers.

Case in point, I swear a few weeks ago there were a couple of girls working in Sexy Night go-go bar of all places that were hotter than 95% of the girls in Billboard or Baccara. A week later they were gone and no trace of them in any other bar that I could tell. And I am still getting Line messages from girls asking if I will go see them tomorrow night so they will know if it is worth showing up or not, well beyond the number of days off they can take in a month. So there must be quite a bit of flexibility about when or if any girls want to show up at all if there are only going to be 4-5 customers in a bar per night.

[QUOTE=*****man;2479236]Is Billboard really the best Nana has to offer?

Last time I went was years ago and I was unimpressed by the lineup. Now I've just seen the latest photo shoot on Stickman and am equally unimpressed. They mostly look like hardened, tattooed hookers with their best years behind them. Stretch marks are also evident. What's the best go-go bar in Bangkok for younger girls with decent bodies these days?[/QUOTE]Best gogo bar is never static. It can change monthly, weekly, or even daily depending on which clubs can lure the best mamasan / pimp.

However, I absolutely never understood the popularity of Billboard. Just figure those who like it have totally different taste in girls than I do on my infrequent visits. I did hear from someone I trust that talent was decent just pre-COVID.

As for photos of the girls you see on web sites. NEVER base your opinion of a gogo bar or Soi 6 bar by who you see in the photos. Same as basing your decision on which gogo bar you want to enter based on the girls standing around outside. In general, the photographers usually have poor taste in girls and most of the hot girls don't want their photos plastered on the internet. They aren't desperate for customers on the internet seeing their photos and coming in to the bar looking for them.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2479358]For younger girls with decent bodies Butterflies is probably the overall best in Nana Plaza right now if for no other reason than the number of girls that fit that criteria. Mind you, by "decent" I am not thinking super hot bodies. Maybe not even all that hot. And a decent face might or might not be included.

[/QUOTE]Thanks for the recommendation. They definitely seem to have my kind of girls judging from their Twitter page so I'll check the place out next week.

[QUOTE=Locamotive;2475924]Have not posted in some time before COVID-19,job is gone now so more free time. I agree with above except 2nd paragraph. I first worked in Philippines around 10 years ago, and many countries since then. After living in US all my life when I first arrived there I did not go out, I figured what's the point Friends were like dude you got to get out as a white western guy you will be very popular. Jesus. They weren't kidding. I was confused as nothing at home I would consider as a guy over 50 would speak to me, I tried!!When trying it was like Ewwww. How old are you? In other words I couldn't get laid in a women prison with a handful of pardons.

Asia was a welcoming surprise. It seemed all of a sudden I was Tom Cruise. Needless to say my past 10 years have been very enjoyable and my plan is to retire there. The US is a great country but for women it sucks. A man over 50 unless he is a gallizonaire can basically forget about anything under 30. Looks, well I'm not fat all my hair and 6' tall, average I guess. I'm praying this is over soon so as to get out of here. Many a friend here my age alone and miserable. I've tried to get them to visit but they just don't believe me. If they only knew.[/QUOTE]What works in your favor is you apparently don't look that old. How you look is more important than your calendar age. You still have your hair, and you're not fat. And you're 6 ft? In like Flint as long as those three things keep steady as they go. (you should be able to get late 30 somethings stateside)

How many middle aged farang men do you know in Asia (and frankly almost anywhere) who aren't either bald or fat. (and I'm not talking obese, but roly poly) . Or both?
at least the weight you can control. With hair, one is completely at mercy of parental genes.

(you can pull off the bald look provided you go to gym regularly, and lift. and stay tanned. How many bald middle aged men do you know that adhere to that regime?)

Gogos are never static an which are the best ones, even in the same night. I'd say Billboard and Butterflies tend to have more young, fit girls and tend to be the "higher class" part / club gogos. Rainbow 4 has more girls with the kawaii look, and overall is generally good. Angelwitch tends to have a good overall mix of different girls and aren't barfined / overrun with chinese / japanese tourists so the hot girls may actually be there when you show up and give you attention. There's good and bad all over, and girls rotate in and out all night, so a place may rock one hour, suck the next, and so on, its always a mixed bag at every gogo, feel free to browse the selection around.

All this said. Pop into a few places until you find one you like, its not hard. Even the little places have gems.

[QUOTE=GrapeMan;2479791]... feel free to browse the selection around....[/QUOTE]This is what I've done for decades wherever there are clusters of girly bars. I just walk into one bar, survey the the situation, and sometimes move to the next bar in less than 1 minute.

I consider these bars to be girl depots. Nothing else. I neither like the the loud music nor much alcohol. Find a girl, pay the ST bar fine, and get out. Sometimes I complete this process in 30 minutes in one bar bar. Sometimes it takes all night long.

I never negotiate LT because I won't know if I like her until we've spent a couple hours together. They are usually willing to stay LT. Sometimes I have to remind them of the ST concept because they want to spend the night in my nice, comfortable hotel bed.

Can you use a Google voice number to create a Thai Friendly account?

It doesn't seem to accept my Google Voice number.

Thanks y'all.

[QUOTE=Catire;2479775]With hair, one is completely at mercy of parental genes.

(you can pull off the bald look provided you go to gym regularly, and lift. and stay tanned. How many bald middle aged men do you know that adhere to that regime?)[/QUOTE]I do the comb over. Works well for me with my 97 strands of hair I comb over. P4P girls say I look young with my comb over. I believe them!

Can't agree with your sentence in brackets. Baldness is one factor girls can't overlook even if you're tall, fit, and tanned. My source is the Seinfeld episode when Elaine broke it to George that baldness is the worst thing possible for a man. Hair on your back and yellow smoker's teeth are other things that are pretty gross for girls. But of course for money all guys look good to girls.

[QUOTE=Catire;2479775]What works in your favor is you apparently don't look that old. How you look is more important than your calendar age. You still have your hair, and you're not fat. And you're 6 ft? In like Flint as long as those three things keep steady as they go. (you should be able to get late 30 somethings stateside)

How many middle aged farang men do you know in Asia (and frankly almost anywhere) who aren't either bald or fat. (and I'm not talking obese, but roly poly) . Or both?
at least the weight you can control. With hair, one is completely at mercy of parental genes.

(you can pull off the bald look provided you go to gym regularly, and lift. and stay tanned. How many bald middle aged men do you know that adhere to that regime?)[/QUOTE]I think a punter being unattractive or attractive are each a mixed bag with regard to Thai hookers.

Many girls might want to put a feather in their cap by being [I]seen[/I] walking away with a good looking, fit customer just to prove to all witnesses that they can get one. But that ensures nothing about how well that punter will be treated in the room and might even work against him being treated all that well. She thinks he has had a lot of sex with many girls and is therefore more likely to have HIV/STD. And that he has had sex with better looking girls than she is, which tends to inhibit and lessen the confidence a Thai girl needs to deliver the best service.

She will also conclude one crap session with her means nothing to this dude since he can get any girl he wants any time and this one session is no big deal to him. Now, multiply that attitude by most of the girls that guy finds himself in a room with and you can see it isn't the great advantage some might assume.

And I have heard many reports from my fatter, less attractive punter friends that their girls are almost always fine with going bareback with them since they have not had much sex in their lives (or so the girls mistakenly believe), they are fat and therefore "can not have HIV."

Also, notoriously overly self critical Thai girls will go all out for a punter if they suspect he could not possibly have gotten laid much in his life and certainly not by a girl as hot as she is. So she is more likely to put in the extra effort just to enjoy testing the limits of her sexual powers. She would feel silly even attempting such a thing with a man she is certain has been with more beautiful girls than she is.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2479878]And I have heard many reports from my fatter, less attractive punter friends .[/QUOTE]You have my sympathy ET, I have the same problem, I'm also too good looking. It's a heavy load to carry but a burden we have to bear. If I hear "Hello, handsome man, where you go" one more time I swear I'll throttle one of them.

Rainbow 2 closed? Saw a Facebook post by a popular Rainbow Girl that indicated its over.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2479850]I do the comb over. Works well for me with my 97 strands of hair I comb over. P4P girls say I look young with my comb over. I believe them!

Can't agree with your sentence in brackets. Baldness is one factor girls can't overlook even if you're tall, fit, and tanned. My source is the Seinfeld episode when Elaine broke it to George that baldness is the worst thing possible for a man. Hair on your back and yellow smoker's teeth are other things that are pretty gross for girls. But of course for money all guys look good to girls.[/QUOTE]Yeah, I'm talking aside from the money.

Are you referring to Thai girls only where you can't pull off the bald look if muscular and tanned? I don't agree. I don't think Jason Statham has problems getting laid. Even if no one knew who he was. Bruce Willis is now quite old and he was never particularly well built.

I was originally responding to Locamotive's post. He's in the PI and sounded like he wasn't talking about "pros"". Also Pinays are Thais aren't quite the same.

I will say that if anything I've gotten better from Thai hookers as I've gotten older (strictly talking about pros) .. but I've also changed my game so to speak. and grown to understand thais a little better

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2479878]

And I have heard many reports from my fatter, less attractive punter friends that their girls are almost always fine with going bareback with them since they have not had much sex in their lives (or so the girls mistakenly believe), they are fat and therefore "can not have HIV."

[/QUOTE]I've been to Soi Cowboy with a really fat bloke and the girls absolutely loved him. I don't think it has anything to do with the reasons you suggest. It's more likely to be because fat men are perceived as being so rich they can eat as much as they want.

[QUOTE=GrapeMan;2479791]Gogos are never static an which are the best ones, even in the same night. I'd say Billboard and Butterflies tend to have more young, fit girls and tend to be the "higher class" part / club gogos. Rainbow 4 has more girls with the kawaii look, and overall is generally good. Angelwitch tends to have a good overall mix of different girls and aren't barfined / overrun with chinese / japanese tourists so the hot girls may actually be there when you show up and give you attention. There's good and bad all over, and girls rotate in and out all night, so a place may rock one hour, suck the next, and so on, its always a mixed bag at every gogo, feel free to browse the selection around.

All this said. Pop into a few places until you find one you like, its not hard. Even the little places have gems.[/QUOTE]I used to like doing that but grew to really dislike go-go bars so just stopped going. I'm finding it difficult to motivate myself to get back into them even with reports that this is the best time ever. Tonight I was going to check out Baccara but then I remembered the silly two lady drinks rule last time I went there and wondered whether they're still pulling that kind of nonsense. I ended up getting off at Phrom Pong and unloading in a massage girl instead.

[QUOTE=DannyDuck;2480008]Rainbow 2 closed? Saw a Facebook post by a popular Rainbow Girl that indicated its over.[/QUOTE]Rainbow girls have moved to another gogo bar. They're still all in Nana Plaza.

[QUOTE=Catire;2480035]I don't think Jason Statham has problems getting laid. Even if no one knew who he was.[/QUOTE]

Sure but how many old bald men on ISG have the touch me and I'll destroy you bad boy look? Sade says ET has a hot looking model look so kudos for him. Agree if he looks hot even if he is balding it may work for him but in reality 99% of the old bald men I have seen in Thailand and Germany FKK clubs would not likely be classified as hot looking by a 20 year old girl.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2479922]If I hear "Hello, handsome man, where you go" one more time I swear I'll throttle one of them.[/QUOTE]

But don't we all hear this way too often from Asian P4P girls? Even I hear it often with my comb over.

[QUOTE=*****man;2480038]I've been to Soi Cowboy with a really fat bloke and the girls absolutely loved him. I don't think it has anything to do with the reasons you suggest. It's more likely to be because fat men are perceived as being so rich they can eat as much as they want.[/QUOTE]I don't know about Thai girls falling all over customers because they look rich in any other way; bling, expensive clothes, shoes, in their demeanor, whatever. But I do see them lighting up and approaching customers with much more visible confidence when there appears to be no reason the customer might reject them for not "measuring up" to the type of girl they are used to being with. And I don't think that behavior is limited to direct P4P hookers.

I hear comments, complaints really, about being turned off by Thai girls with a boring lack of confidence in the room only from the guys I know who honestly do look like they could get hot girls for free but never from the guys who don't look like they could.

Only talking about the natural perception of the guys. We all know ugly guys who get hot girls, even for free. But I doubt that is a premise Thai hookers are basing their approach behavior on or how they behave in the room.

[QUOTE=*****man;2480038]I've been to Soi Cowboy with a really fat bloke and the girls absolutely loved him. I don't think it has anything to do with the reasons you suggest. It's more likely to be because fat men are perceived as being so rich they can eat as much as they want.[/QUOTE]Maybe that might have been true 100 years ago, these days you can get pretty fat on cheap food. No need to be rich. In my opinion its pretty easy to see what a society deems attractive, just look at their media. What do the guys look like on TV, in advertisemennts and shows. These are the guys that thai women have been trained to like.

[QUOTE=Kazeu;2480173] its pretty easy to see what a society deems attractive, just look at their media. What do the guys look like on TV, in advertisemennts and shows. These are the guys that thai women have been trained to like.[/QUOTE]Then sadly for us Farang Thai girls will be conditioned to like Thai men because your average Thai girl DOES NOT watch Farang TV if there is no Farang around. They all watch their Thai drama series. Most of the big Bangkok TV stars who Thai girls find hot are in their 20's and early 30's, not over 60. The other thing Thai girls watch are cartoons to help them improve their English. Guess Thai girls will become accustomed to like the human version of Doraemon.

[QUOTE=Kazeu;2480173]Maybe that might have been true 100 years ago, these days you can get pretty fat on cheap food. No need to be rich. In my opinion its pretty easy to see what a society deems attractive, just look at their media. What do the guys look like on TV, in advertisemennts and shows. These are the guys that thai women have been trained to like.[/QUOTE]Whatever look a Thai girl has been conditioned to be sexually attracted to, that has almost nothing to do with who Thai hookers tend to feel more confident about approaching, being more comfortably uninhibited with or giving good service to in the room.

There is far less potential upside for a P4P girl to give attention and great service to a man she perceives as physically attractive enough not to really need her attention to get well laid and laid by girls at least as good looking as her if not better looking than to a man who in her eyes and estimation would feel lucky as hell and eternally grateful for the chance to be alone in the same room with her.

Now, the least attractive girls in a bar or any venue will go after a good looking man without hesitation or worry about being publicly rebuffed because they are used to being publicly rebuffed and most onlookers would expect it anyway. No surprise.

But the better looking girls have more fragile egos and are taking a rare and, frankly, unnecessary risk of losing Face by making a big play for a man who might turn up his nose at her approach when she could take the safer route instead.

The way this particular topic applies here, I suppose, is don't automatically assume a hot girl in a venue ignoring your attention and focusing on another dude has anything to do with you not being as physically attractive as him. Lol. It could very well be more like the opposite of that.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2480182]Then sadly for us Farang Thai girls will be conditioned to like Thai men because your average Thai girl DOES NOT watch Farang TV if there is no Farang around. They all watch their Thai drama series. Most of the big Bangkok TV stars who Thai girls find hot are in their 20's and early 30's, not over 60. The other thing Thai girls watch are cartoons to help them improve their English. Guess Thai girls will become accustomed to like the human version of Doraemon.[/QUOTE]Check out what's on their phones or the walls of their bedrooms. Its Korean pop stars in their late teens / twenties not some aging farang but check out where their money comes from and its customers in their fifties up. Two different worlds. First is their fantasy second is their reality, its what they do for a living, its work.

When it comes to work they don't like bad hygiene, if you are too inebriated and those identified with a reputation for being overly demanding or aggressive. I feel they don't differentiate on age. In fact I have heard more than once a lot don't like young guys because of the nonstop pounding they get unlike granddad who likes to take it slow and easy. Also don't believe a high BMI or being folically challenged makes a lot of difference. For sure how you look, grooming, dress, having a smile, a twinkle in your eye and look like you are enjoying yourself goes a long way but a 3000 baht offer for her time supersedes all of that.

In short it's true they have their preferences and if they have choices they will pick and choose. If not they will close their eyes and dream of their Korean idol as they go through the motions with whoever is paying.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2480202]Check out what's on their phones or the walls of their bedrooms. Its Korean pop stars in their late teens / twenties not some aging farang but check out where their money comes from and its customers in their fifties up. Two different worlds. First is their fantasy second is their reality, its what they do for a living, its work.

When it comes to work they don't like bad hygiene, if you are too inebriated and those identified with a reputation for being overly demanding or aggressive. I feel they don't differentiate on age. In fact I have heard more than once a lot don't like young guys because of the nonstop pounding they get unlike granddad who likes to take it slow and easy. Also don't believe a high BMI or being folically challenged makes a lot of difference. For sure how you look, grooming, dress, having a smile, a twinkle in your eye and look like you are enjoying yourself goes a long way but a 3000 baht offer for her time supersedes all of that.

In short it's true they have their preferences and if they have choices they will pick and choose. If not they will close their eyes and dream of their Korean idol as they go through the motions with whoever is paying.[/QUOTE]Not once did I see old white guys on Thai girls FB pages with the Heart emoji. Hansum Asian; boys always POP up.

[QUOTE=DannyDuck;2480285]Not once did I see old white guys on Thai girls FB pages with the Heart emoji. Hansum Asian; boys always POP up.[/QUOTE]You know when the girls stop at the little Buddhist shrine to wai and pray for a fortunate night to help support themselves and their families before they hurry into the go-go bars? That's when images of old white guys POP into their heads.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2480194]But the better looking girls have more fragile egos and are taking a rare and, frankly, unnecessary risk of losing Face by making a big play for a man who might turn up his nose at her approach when she could take the safer route instead.

The way this particular topic applies here, I suppose, is don't automatically assume a hot girl in a venue ignoring your attention and focusing on another dude has anything to do with you not being as physically attractive as him. Lol. It could very well be more like the opposite of that.[/QUOTE]

Interesting thought experiment and the logic seems sound on the surface. However, in reality, I definitely do NOT see more hot working girls making a big play for me now than did back when I was 10-15 years younger and 20 kg lighter.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;2480331]Interesting thought experiment and the logic seems sound on the surface. However, in reality, I definitely do NOT see more hot working girls making a big play for me now than did back when I was 10-15 years younger and 20 kg lighter.[/QUOTE]My most recent visit was February and March this year, I was 10 kg lighter than prior visits but still about 5 kg above my ideal body weight. I noticed no difference in how the girls responded compared to prior visits.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2479850]Hair on your back and yellow smoker's teeth are other things that are pretty gross for girls.[/QUOTE]I guess I need to wax before my next Pattaya visit.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;2480331]Interesting thought experiment and the logic seems sound on the surface. However, in reality, I definitely do NOT see more hot working girls making a big play for me now than did back when I was 10-15 years younger and 20 kg lighter.[/QUOTE]But by most observations the change in the past 10-15 years for what the hotter girls judge to be easier targets with regard to this premise is not based nearly so much on hair, age and weight as on race.

Thai girls claim to think (slim) Western women are the most beautiful because they tend to possess most of the attributes on the Thai girls' beauty wish list; taller, bigger boobs, lighter skin, lighter hair, blue eyes, etc. And they all seem to believe we Farang men were used to having the best of them before we landed in Thailand. LOL. Whether or not they could "measure up" to those standards has been brought up with me more times than I can count in the past 7 years. Based solely on the fact that I am a Farang.

Remember, it isn't really about which customer they think is physically attractive to them but more about who they think is or isn't accustomed to having better than them and possibly even for free.

I'm guessing that particular concern about a target customer having been with so many Western women is rarely if ever a consideration in the mind of the hotter girls who work in "Asian Only" clubs, the go-go bars where Asian customers are much preferred, Thermae and the like.

[QUOTE=*****man;2480038]I've been to Soi Cowboy with a really fat bloke and the girls absolutely loved him. I don't think it has anything to do with the reasons you suggest. It's more likely to be because fat men are perceived as being so rich they can eat as much as they want.[/QUOTE]A hot petite girl I met told me she likes fat guys. So of course I asked her why. She said their body is like a big soft pillow.

[QUOTE=LuckyNuts;2480412]A hot petite girl I met told me she likes fat guys. So of course I asked her why. She said their body is like a big soft pillow.[/QUOTE]Quite a few Girls said they love fat boys.

Paid for no sex. Imagine the logistics of a 300 pound man and a 80 pound Issarn Bargirl.

When girl say only cuddle how can a fat man get angry.

[QUOTE=LuckyNuts;2480412]A hot petite girl I met told me she likes fat guys. So of course I asked her why. She said their body is like a big soft pillow.[/QUOTE]Ben Franklin is a fat guy. All ladies love him.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2480378]But by most observations the change in the past 10-15 years for what the hotter girls judge to be easier targets with regard to this premise is not based nearly so much on hair, age and weight as on race.

Thai girls claim to think (slim) Western women are the most beautiful because they tend to possess most of the attributes on the Thai girls' beauty wish list; taller, bigger boobs, lighter skin, lighter hair, blue eyes, etc. And they all seem to believe we Farang men were used to having the best of them before we landed in Thailand. LOL. Whether or not they could "measure up" to those standards has been brought up with me more times than I can count in the past 7 years. Based solely on the fact that I am a Farang.

Remember, it isn't really about which customer they think is physically attractive to them but more about who they think is or isn't accustomed to having better than them and possibly even for free.

I'm guessing that particular concern about a target customer having been with so many Western women is rarely if ever a consideration in the mind of the hotter girls who work in "Asian Only" clubs, the go-go bars where Asian customers are much preferred, Thermae and the like.[/QUOTE]Your take on the fragile egos of hot Thai girls is interesting but. As I understand it and please correct me if I got it wrong firstly they have problems with good looking men because they believe these guys will have been with lots of pretty girls and so might reject them and they lose face and secondly for the same reasons may not meet his expectations back in the room. Less attractive men they feel will be men with less experience of pretty girls and so will not reject them or have high expectations back in the room. Conversely less attractive girls have no problem with rejection and could not care less whether the customer is satisfied or not. Did I get it right?

Hello friends,

Could anyone help me with some basic information:

1. Is the situation in Thailand back to way before Covid?

2. Do we still find attractive girls with GFE in bars and other freelancers?

3. Is sex tourism officially open?

Thank you and wish you all quality mongering.

[QUOTE=LuckyNuts;2480412]A hot petite girl I met told me she likes fat guys. So of course I asked her why. She said their body is like a big soft pillow.[/QUOTE]Sumo wrestlers in Japan get more girls than movie stars.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2480839]Sumo wrestlers in Japan get more girls than movie stars.[/QUOTE]I imagine that's less because of their enormous bodiies and rather despite their bodiees.

[QUOTE=Vinwinvin;2480752]Hello friends,

Could anyone help me with some basic information:

1. Is the situation in Thailand back to way before Covid?

2. Do we still find attractive girls with GFE in bars and other freelancers?

3. Is sex tourism officially open?

Thank you and wish you all quality mongering.[/QUOTE]Yes, yes, yes unless stated otherwise here.

Welcome.

[QUOTE=Vinwinvin;2480752]Hello friends,

Could anyone help me with some basic information:

1. Is the situation in Thailand back to way before Covid?

2. Do we still find attractive girls with GFE in bars and other freelancers?

3. Is sex tourism officially open?

Thank you and wish you all quality mongering.[/QUOTE]Suggest you skim through the last few weeks of reports and read the links. Don't book your flight yet.

[QUOTE=Vinwinvin;2480752]Hello friends,

Could anyone help me with some basic information:

1. Is the situation in Thailand back to way before Covid?

2. Do we still find attractive girls with GFE in bars and other freelancers?

3. Is sex tourism officially open?

Thank you and wish you all quality mongering.[/QUOTE]No.

Whatever you remember is still there with greatly reduced numbers.

As far as I know sex tourism is not an officially sanctioned form of tourism anywhere in the world.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2480839]Sumo wrestlers in Japan get more girls than movie stars.[/QUOTE]And I'm sure many are quite wealthy.

[QUOTE===*****man;2480038]I've been to Soi Cowboy with a really fat bloke and the girls absolutely loved him. I don't think it has anything to do with the reasons you suggest. It's more likely to be because fat men are perceived as being so rich they can eat as much as they want.[/QUOTE]Typically visit Crazy Horse when I'm in BKK. Have to pay an entrance fee as an Indian (though it is a little humiliating, I understand the house position because Indians IMHO are always aiming at getting something for nothing). I normally don't flash money to get attention but last time I was there I pulled out a rather fat wad to pay for my beer. Typically the service is ho-hum with nothing more than a folded hands gesture for the tip but after seeing it the waitress immediately sent out word to the girls around that there was a money stack attached to a man and it was their duty to pry it out of his hands (or at least that's what I surmised from her conversations). Half a dozen girls sidled up to me but as I was there for just the show, didn't make any moves on them so they left and I left after an hour or so with my wad a tad thinner.

Money talks to these girls. That's why they are in the business. Who they will or will not go out with has to be more to do who they think are more likely to part with it for the least amount of work on their part.

[QUOTE=Grebe925;2481058]...I pulled out a rather fat wad to pay for my beer...Half a dozen girls sidled up to me ...
Money talks to these girls. That's why they are in the business. Who they will or will not go out with has to be more to do who they think are more likely to part with it for the least amount of work on their part.[/QUOTE]I've hard a similar experience, many times over in Thailand. Indeed, money talks, and it's the bottom line with the girls.

[QUOTE=Grebe925;2481058]Typically visit Crazy Horse when I'm in BKK. Have to pay an entrance fee as an Indian (though it is a little humiliating, I understand the house position because Indians IMHO are always aiming at getting something for nothing).[/QUOTE]Being a Westerner I also had to pay an entrance fee in Crazy House. Level of girls (January 2020) has dropped immensely. So no reason to pay that entrance fee. CH goes from bad to worse.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2480997]And I'm sure many are quite wealthy.[/QUOTE]Girls do not have an aversion to very fat men, they have an aversion to very empty wallets.

You tuber report. 270 day visa. Just pay for your own 14 quarantine in Looked. I'm in.

Comments.

Apparently, Rainbow 2 go-go bar has had so few customers lately it was shut down and they consolidated the girls and staff with Rainbow 4 go-go bar directly upstairs on the second level of Nana Plaza.

That is how it was last night and, therefore, Rainbow 4 was packed with girls and had a lot of Asian customers as is generally the case with those particular Rainbow bars.

I was there from about 9:30pm until almost Midnight and counted only 4-5 Farang customers including me in the place along with dozens of Asian customers.

I only emphasis the racial mix that much because the whole time I was there with 2 girls at my side I only saw 1 dude walk out with a girl after having barfined her. And he was one of the few other Farang customers. So I thought that was very interesting for a venue like this. The Asian customers all seemed content to just drink, buy drinks, relate whatever long drawn out stories and jokes to 2-3 girls at their side, goof around, everyone giggling but not taking any of them before walking out alone. Some were just sitting alone the whole time and never took a girl. And there were many lookers among the girls last night.

I had noticed earlier this late 30's or so Farang customer had a long conversation with a mamasan before she brought him a girl. The rare one in the line up willing to go with a Farang? Who knows. I would say she was clearly among the less atractive girls in the bar, a bit older and less fit than most of the other girls. But within minutes and 1 LD, off she went to change into her street clothes to leave with him happy as lovebirds.

As for me, I left with one of the cutest, sexiest girls in the place, imo, and she had already been fully vetted and screened for agreeing to defy the "Thanks for the Ladydrinks but no Real Sex (BBFS+CIP) for you tonight" vibe and all too often experienced reality that still at this dire economic time prevails with rare exception among the better looking go-go girls.

My method? Lol. Simple. On this occasion I BROUGHT her into Rainbow 2+4 go-go bar with me last night after having met her online and fully vetting her for providing me with Real Sex if I took her for LT. She was keen to go to Rainbow 2 after dinner because her friend dances there and that was the other girl at my side and enjoying a few LDs at my expense. Which was fine with me. I had a good time. My girl made almost anything worth it.

It is possible she used to work in Rainbow 2 as well before the lockdown. The gay papasan or whatever he is broke conversation with someone and threw his arms around her when we walked in. But when I asked if she ever worked in a go-go bar (her face and body definitely supported the idea) she only batted her eyes, smiled and sheepishly shook her head no. I dropped that line of questioning.

Anyway, last night with my girl was a lovely True GFE of Real Sex for our agreed upon 2,000 baht. At almost 12 Noon now the sweet little lady is still sleeping naked next to me and the plan is to go for a full day today and a second night in a row for the same 2,000 baht deal. Two nights in a row with the same girl is rare for me. But I can't think of a good reason not to agree to it with this one.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2481233]Apparently, Rainbow 2 go-go bar has had so few customers lately it was shut down and they consolidated the girls and staff with Rainbow 4 go-go bar directly upstairs on the second level of Nana Plaza.

That is how it was last night and, therefore, Rainbow 4 was packed with girls and had a lot of Asian customers as is generally the case with those particular Rainbow bars.

I was there from about 9:30pm until almost Midnight and counted only 4-5 Farang customers including me in the place along with dozens of Asian customers.

I only emphasis the racial mix that much because the whole time I was there with 2 girls at my side I only saw 1 dude walk out with a girl after having barfined her. And he was one of the few other Farang customers. So I thought that was very interesting for a venue like this. The Asian customers all seemed content to just drink, buy drinks, relate whatever long drawn out stories and jokes to 2-3 girls at their side, goof around, everyone giggling but not taking any of them before walking out alone. Some were just sitting alone the whole time and never took a girl. And there were many lookers among the girls last night.

I had noticed earlier this late 30's or so Farang customer had a long conversation with a mamasan before she brought him a girl. The rare one in the line up willing to go with a Farang? Who knows. I would say she was clearly among the less atractive girls in the bar, a bit older and less fit than most of the other girls. But within minutes and 1 LD, off she went to change into her street clothes to leave with him happy as lovebirds..[/QUOTE]When / if you get tired of her. Can send me her Line in PM.

I wonder why I am so bad at finding that kind of girl online (2 k for long time and cute / sexy. I don't even care for BBFS and CIP).

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2481233]I only emphasis the racial mix that much because the whole time I was there with 2 girls at my side I only saw 1 dude walk out with a girl after having barfined her. And he was one of the few other Farang customers. So I thought that was very interesting for a venue like this. The Asian customers all seemed content to just drink, buy drinks, relate whatever long drawn out stories and jokes to 2-3 girls at their side, goof around, everyone giggling but not taking any of them before walking out alone. Some were just sitting alone the whole time and never took a girl. And there were many lookers among the girls last night.[/QUOTE]Possibly because the Asian customers you currently see in the gogo bars are not the typical Weekend Millionaire Japanese and Korean tourists you would have seen pre-COVID. Assuming these are Asians who live / work in Bangkok or a select few tourists who currently have Visa amnesty and can stay in Thailand indefinitely.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2481241]Possibly because the Asian customers you currently see in the gogo bars are not the typical Weekend Millionaire Japanese and Korean tourists you would have seen pre-COVID. Assuming these are Asians who live / work in Bangkok or a select few tourists who currently have Visa amnesty and can stay in Thailand indefinitely.[/QUOTE]I thought that might be the reason as well. But that would be true of the Farangs in the bar too. And I do see Asian men walking out of Nana Plaza with girls they have apparently just barfined. And going in and out of the ST rooms in the Plaza. Just not from that bar last night and it had a high percentage of good looking girls compared with other bars.

[QUOTE=Grebe925;2481058]Money talks to these girls. That's why they are in the business. Who they will or will not go out with has to be more to do who they think are more likely to part with it for the least amount of work on their part.[/QUOTE]Thank you for stating the obvious. If mongers were in BKK in the middle of the action they wouldn't be over analyzing something so simple The pandemic is causing us to monger in different ways LOL.

Also, if I'm paying money for a girl's company I couldn't care less what she thinks of my belly or hair, it's what I think of hers and her service, it's why I'm paying.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2481241]Possibly because the Asian customers you currently see in the gogo bars are not the typical Weekend Millionaire Japanese and Korean tourists you would have seen pre-COVID. Assuming these are Asians who live / work in Bangkok or a select few tourists who currently have Visa amnesty and can stay in Thailand indefinitely.[/QUOTE]Probably because any sensible expat either Asian or western would shoot his load in a massage parlour or blowjob bar girl and then spend the rest of the night chilling out in a go-go bar. Those go go girls really have priced themselves out of the market unless they are prepared to drop their prices to 1500 baht maximum. I imagine Rainbow girls are not prepared to go that low. Correct me if I'm wrong as 1500+800 BF + 300 ST hotel = 2600 baht would definitely tempt me back to start bar fining there again.

[QUOTE=*****man;2481290]Probably because any sensible expat either Asian or western would shoot his load in a massage parlour or blowjob bar girl and then spend the rest of the night chilling out in a go-go bar. Those go go girls really have priced themselves out of the market unless they are prepared to drop their prices to 1500 baht maximum. I imagine Rainbow girls are not prepared to go that low. Correct me if I'm wrong as 1500+800 BF + 300 ST hotel = 2600 baht would definitely tempt me back to start bar fining there again.[/QUOTE]Exactly the price level I had in mind.

Love Rainbow 2-4. Pre covid I distinctly remember girls saying Barfine was 1000. No matter if house girl or agency.

I agree with all. No value in spending close to $130 for an AgoGo girl. So I don't.

[QUOTE==*****man;2481290]Probably because any sensible expat either Asian or western would shoot his load in a massage parlour or blowjob bar girl and then spend the rest of the night chilling out in a go-go bar. Those go go girls really have priced themselves out of the market unless they are prepared to drop their prices to 1500 baht maximum. I imagine Rainbow girls are not prepared to go that low. Correct me if I'm wrong as 1500+800 BF + 300 ST hotel = 2600 baht would definitely tempt me back to start bar fining there again.[/QUOTE]Wait a minute. You are telling me that you live in BKK and you have not thought to arrange a hook up with Go Go girls in the afternoon or on their days off?

The Go Go's are an excellent source of new girl material, but you must be willing to make the initial investment, so to speak, to get the ball rolling. Go! Find who you like and pay up (2500+800). Consider the barfine a finder's fee. If all goes well on the initial night in question all future meetings with this girl and her girlfriends can be easily arranged at your apartment thus cutting the bar out of all future arrangements completely. The cost minus the barfine finder fee would then be approximately 2500 bhat which is less than ceiling price you are willing to pay. Yeah, some girls might still want 3000. You can always take a pass on those. Of course, if you have some cute, sexy massage girls on hand, then you might not have a reason to go Go Go, but I like to hunt.

I cannot count the number of times I have arranged afternoon shag / pool party lunches with Go Go girls. My girls would often ask if they could bring a friend along and then show me the friend's pics for my approval. This was done in the best of times from the girl's point of view IE in pre Corona high demand times. Nowadays under the pandemic, I would imagine the girls would be even more willing to meet up outside of the Go Go bar. You just have to be willing to make that initial investment. No risk, no gain.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;2481340]The Go Go's are an excellent source of new girl material, but you must be willing to make the initial investment, so to speak, to get the ball rolling. Go! Find who you like and pay up (2500+800). Consider the barfine a finder's fee. If all goes well on the initial night in question all future meetings with this girl and her girlfriends can be easily arranged at your apartment thus cutting the bar out of all future arrangements completely. The cost minus the barfine finder fee would then be approximately 2500 bhat which is less than ceiling price you are willing to pay. Yeah, some girls might still want 3000. You can always take a pass on those.[/QUOTE]In my limited experience, the girl price for subsequent meetings at my hotel can also go down. Though I must admit, I'll pay well over 2500 for somebody who I really like.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2481096]Girls do not have an aversion to very fat men, they have an aversion to very empty wallets.[/QUOTE]Sorry man, hate to break it to you. Fat men are not attractive physically to most women. Just as fat women are not physically attractive to most men. There are exceptions of course, but they are the few.

That does NOT mean girls won't go with you for the money. Theres a lot of things I'm averse to that I will do for money. Like work. Hahahah.

What you like and what you will accept for money are different things. Lets admit that and get that out of the way.

[QUOTE=Kazeu;2481407]Sorry man, hate to break it to you. Fat men are not attractive physically to most women. Just as fat women are not physically attractive to most men. There are exceptions of course, but they are the few.

That does NOT mean girls won't go with you for the money. Theres a lot of things I'm averse to that I will do for money. Like work. Hahahah.

What you like and what you will accept for money are different things. Lets admit that and get that out of the way.[/QUOTE]Exactly. To think otherwise is delusional. Yes, there are some chubby chasers out there, but very few. Keep yourselves in shape gents.

I think the suggested prices to encourage more customers for the go-go bars, to keep them open, solvent and competing that I have read here are too high for what passes for Short Time service standards these days.

Even before Covid the girl in the pics below was the level of girl one could get online or just meet on your travels around town for 2,000 baht (plus 200-300 tip for travel to and from perhaps) Long Time starting as early as dinner time and going until 11am or 12Noon the next day with no barfine and no Ladydrink purchases required. And after a brief exchange that costs absolutely nothing, BBFS+CIP and/or BBBJ+CIM, at a minimum, can be agreed upon. If not, it still costs absolutely nothing to move on to the next one.

And this girl is no rube. She is friends with other girls who work in go-go bars like Rainbow 2 and 4 who have ongoing Japanese repeat customers and boyfriends they met there. So it isn't like she just left the rice fields and has no idea what kind of money she could make working in one of those bars. She prefers the freedom of not working in one, that's all.

Now, I am not one of the Master Punters here who routinely gets the top girls from the best go-go bars for 700 baht ST or 1,000 baht LT all in with BBFS+CIP provided as the norm without a gesture or word of discussion or objection about it. No, I am just a simple 67 year old country boy trying to make my way in the big city. Hence, the rates and negotiated service level I cited.

And I will not pretend this girl would be a top girl in the best go-go bars. She is not tall, does not have big boobs and does not have snow white skin that makes Asian punters drool. But she is a girlish little 22 year old spinner with an adorable face (not shown here, of course), an awesome fine shaved vagina and she knows how to give a great BBBJ+CIM.

I assure you I have seen punters of all races and ethnicities walking out of the best go-go bars with less attractive girls than this one countless times at 2-3 times the cost for ST only and, I can only guess, less than a hope of getting the level of Real Sex most girls out there will provide if their customers at least start asking for it upfront.

So if go-go bars and the girls in them want to compete with what is easily available out there and not sit empty without customers, how about the Reset Button take us back to 500 baht barfine, 100-120 baht Ladydrinks, 1000 baht to the girl for ST or 2,000 baht for LT? And let's include a much more liberal concept of what constitutes good to great service than what it has been for the past couple of decades. I mean, as long as we're wishing, why be lazy about it, as Mark Twain supposedly said.

Imo, in the new world of dating site hook ups and especially under the current economic conditions, the go-go bars and the girls in them need to really up their game if they want to compete with what is available out there. Unless they only want to sell the loud, party atmosphere bar and drinking experience with little or nothing to do with customers scoring a Real Sex experience as the goal.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2481437]Exactly. To think otherwise is delusional. Yes, there are some chubby chasers out there, but very few. Keep yourselves in shape gents.[/QUOTE]All girls prefer fat guys with money to in shape ones without.

Many Thai girls are aware that slim tall men have Extremely Large Pickles.

YMMV. Hahahahaha.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2481588]All girls prefer fat guys with money to in shape ones without.[/QUOTE]True. But they prefer an in shape guy with money to a fat guy with money. So get your butt in the gym.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2481588]All girls prefer fat guys with money to in shape ones without.[/QUOTE]Half true. They prefer both: the fat guy to pay the bills and then go to the buff guy for fun.

Any good looking white boy paying in Asia just ain't right in the head. 😉.

Enjoy. G.

Young white boys don't know how blessed they are. You don't even necessarily have to be ripped. Although as men, we tend to think women want muscled up jacked men, I've heard from quite a few women that they don't actually like that. You just have to be presentable. Look good in clothes and you're half way there.

[QUOTE=Goferring;2481729]Half true. They prefer both: the fat guy to pay the bills and then go to the buff guy for fun.

Any good looking white boy paying in Asia just ain't right in the head. 😉.

Enjoy. G.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2481722]True. But they prefer an in shape guy with money to a fat guy with money. So get your butt in the gym.[/QUOTE]I agree with that. However, my earlier point was that a P4P Thai girl is more likely to assume the fat or unattractive guy has had much less sex with far fewer different ladies, few if any posing a challenge for her to "measure up" to on looks by comparison than if he was a fit, better looking man, a man who has had many good looking girls, probably better looking than her and often for free.

Consequently, she would naturally assume the fat guy is not going to low ball her or hard bargain her down on her asking price and just accept it, even be happy to pay it, whereas the guy who gets good looking girls for free would. And, once in the room, she has far less reason to think the fat guy has been exposed to nearly as much potential STDs as the slim good looking man or that he has ever been with a better looking girl than her.

And those assumptions, true or not, can influence her behavior in the room regarding less inhibited service and going bareback or not.

The fatter or less attractive customer is also a prime candidate for repeat business if she wows him in the room. But her experience has told her the likelihood of a better looking customer she already thinks has had better than her and sometimes for free repeating with her is nil no matter how great she is with him in the room.

So, there is much more in it for her financially to approach and give great service in the room to a less attractive customer than a good looking one.

What the hooker finds personally sexually attractive or not is largely immaterial.

I think people are over analyzing this. Every girl thinks differently and she may change her view depending on her mood, which friends are watching, and her finances for the day.

[QUOTE=HorseTrader;2481758]I think people are over analyzing this. Every girl thinks differently and she may change her view depending on her mood, which friends are watching, and her finances for the day.[/QUOTE]Couldn't agree more. This is the P4P world not the fragile ego driven dating game. Overwhelmingly connections with working girls are initiated by the customer and overwhelmingly the girls are not concerned about looks age weight. This has been consistently confirmed in research. Of course they will have preferences and if they have choices they will for example go with a younger fit Asian rather than an aging overweight westerner. There are some lines however some don't cross among which are customers wanting unprotected sex, aggressive drunks, and some nationalities but even here depending on how badly they need money some will unfortunately and sadly put their health on the line or take a risk with a customer they would normally avoid.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2482078]Couldn't agree more. This is the P4P world not the fragile ego driven dating game. Overwhelmingly connections with working girls are initiated by the customer and overwhelmingly the girls are not concerned about looks age weight. This has been consistently confirmed in research. Of course they will have preferences and if they have choices they will for example go with a younger fit Asian rather than an aging overweight westerner. There are some lines however some don't cross among which are customers wanting unprotected sex, aggressive drunks, and some nationalities but even here depending on how badly they need money some will unfortunately and sadly put their health on the line or take a risk with a customer they would normally avoid.[/QUOTE]No doubt most want an aging Foreigner. Young fit Asians last too long and too Big.

[QUOTE=DannyDuck;2482291]No doubt most want an aging Foreigner. Young fit Asians last too long and too Big.[/QUOTE]Regardless what is sexually appealing for a female in or out of the P4P business, I'm pretty sure the whole idea of P4P from the beginning was to cater to men who were not already getting plenty of free pussy from hot young girls.

These girls will naturally search for and prefer to approach and close a deal with men who appear to have the words "LIKELY CUSTOMER, RARELY GETS IT FOR FREE" plastered all over them, not "HANDSOME PLAYBOY WHO OFTEN GETS LAID FOR FREE FROM HOTTER GIRLS THAN ME" plastered all over them. Lol.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;2481340]Wait a minute. You are telling me that you live in BKK and you have not thought to arrange a hook up with Go Go girls in the afternoon or on their days off?[/QUOTE]Imo you should not be paying barfines at all if you live in Thailand or are a frequent visitor. Of course there will be the occasional night when you want a girl that particular night and she is in the middle of her contract. However, in general girls happy to go with you on their off days and when they have free time.

Maybe it's just me but when it's prime time in the gogo bars starting at 7:30 pm I'd rather be bar hopping feeling up and DFKing many girls rather than being with a single girl who I could just meet up after work when the bars are closed.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2482371]Regardless what is sexually appealing for a female in or out of the P4P business, I'm pretty sure the whole idea of P4P from the beginning was to cater to men who were not already getting plenty of free pussy from hot young girls.

These girls will naturally search for and prefer to approach and close a deal with men who appear to have the words "LIKELY CUSTOMER, RARELY GETS IT FOR FREE" plastered all over them, not "HANDSOME PLAYBOY WHO OFTEN GETS LAID FOR FREE FROM HOTTER GIRLS THAN ME" plastered all over them. Lol.[/QUOTE]Can't see ET where the "naturally search and prefer" by the girls of less attractive customers comes in. The business doesn't operate like that. They chose which ends they want to work in, whether freelance or employee and then where and how, oilies soapies, gogos, escort, online, street, or bars and clubs and then wait for customers. While other issues will influence their choice whether the customer looks like he gets lots of free pussy or not is totally irrelevant.

I'm sure its interesting to discuss whether the P4 P girls care what you look like, and yeah you'll absolutely get better service if you're attractive.

But lets not make any question of the real deal: they care about who they can extract the most money from more than anything. Don't kid yourself. They want the guy who is going to shower them in cash far more than anything else going on, looks or whatever. Is a girl happy to please some old fat guy? No, but she likes money, sure she'd rather get the money from a hot stud, but those aren't really her clients. But no matter what you look like or how you act, all problems can be solved with baht. Often not even too much of it.

[QUOTE=GrapeMan;2482584]I'm sure its interesting to discuss whether the P4 P girls care what you look like, and yeah you'll absolutely get better service if you're attractive.

But lets not make any question of the real deal: they care about who they can extract the most money from more than anything. Don't kid yourself. They want the guy who is going to shower them in cash far more than anything else going on, looks or whatever. Is a girl happy to please some old fat guy? No, but she likes money, sure she'd rather get the money from a hot stud, but those aren't really her clients. But no matter what you look like or how you act, all problems can be solved with baht. Often not even too much of it.[/QUOTE]Thank god for paid hookers. Most of us have our best days behind us already. Imagine if we had to compete based on looks!

[QUOTE=Kazeu;2482614]Thank god for paid hookers. Most of us have our best days behind us already. Imagine if we had to compete based on looks![/QUOTE]Yep. Even on my best days I couldn't compete on my looks.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2482473]Can't see ET where the "naturally search and prefer" by the girls of less attractive customers comes in. The business doesn't operate like that. They chose which ends they want to work in, whether freelance or employee and then where and how, oilies soapies, gogos, escort, online, street, or bars and clubs and then wait for customers. While other issues will influence their choice whether the customer looks like he gets lots of free pussy or not is totally irrelevant.[/QUOTE]I haven't been talking about P4P girls who work in soapies, massage shops, BJ bars and so on where the customer walks in, points to the girl he wants (or books her in advance), where the fees are set and might even be collected upfront.

And it was more about customer preference, inhibitions, enthusiasm, fee negotiations, etc, elements that don't really apply in venues where fees are set, services often listed on a menu (bareback not being among them, for instance) and where the service is pretty much assembly line the same from customer to customer.

[QUOTE=Dg8787;2482615]Yep. Even on my best days I couldn't compete on my looks.[/QUOTE]How old guys get Hot chicks in malls is beyond my pay grade.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2482664]I haven't been talking about P4P girls who work in soapies, massage shops, BJ bars and so on where the customer walks in, points to the girl he wants (or books her in advance), where the fees are set and might even be collected upfront.

And it was more about customer preference, inhibitions, enthusiasm, fee negotiations, etc, elements that don't really apply in venues where fees are set, services often listed on a menu (bareback not being among them, for instance) and where the service is pretty much assembly line the same from customer to customer.[/QUOTE]While I still don't subscribe to your belief that good looking girls avoid good looking men because they either fear rejection or they will disappoint him with their service and while I don't see any evidence of this where I play I have to admit I have no experience with how it works online. I agree here its possible good looking girls while browsing through profiles with pics pass on good looking guys for the reasons you mention but how is then as a good looking guy you seem to have no end of good looking young girls lining up to spend time with you. Not doubting you ET just curious.

For the past month (Aug / Sep), I've checked-out the gogo bar scene as much as I could.

My report is that Nana is the place to go for Gogo bars right now. Cowboy would be next in line but really the only place worthwhile there would be Baccara and maybe Crazy House (for the all-nude viewing). And I never made it out to Patpong, but if it's anything like how it was before COVID, then XXX Lounge would probably be the only one I'd visit over there.

Now for Nana, the only gogos worth visiting right now and if I was forced to only choose one gogo to visit, I would visit:

Based on attractive lineups, I would have to go with Rainbow 4 (for the more natural-looking girls).

Based on groping sessions, I would go with Rainbow 5 (for the cosmetic enhancements).

Based on just chilling without being constantly harassed by girls / mamasans, I would go with Butterflies (best open layout for sitting and viewing).

Based on all-around gogo experience, you can't go wrong with Billboard (all-around good).

And if I had to only choose one gogo to visit right now, I would say Rainbow 4. Even though I get quoted Rainbow's barfine as being 1 k baht. Most of the other gogo's barfine that I get quoted is 700 baht. I just find the girl lineup there matches my personal preference.

I don't bother haggling price with the girls even though you definitely could haggle. The initial ST price is always quoted to me as 3 k baht. A Rainbow 4 girl discounted her ST price to me down to 2 k without any haggling, and I couldn't say no to that bargain. She was super young and fit with no tattoos. And her service was great.

And most of these girls that I barfined exchanged their Line info with me. But it's becoming somewhat annoying to receive random Line startup conversations from these girls trying to arrange meetings. My guess is this is the case because most of these girls no longer have a steady stream of customers.

But overall, I would say you can find a fun experience at these mentioned gogos. Their lineups are all good. You can grope these girls at all these venues and have your own personal lap dance for the price of a lady drink. When sitting at these gogos nowadays, the ratio of girls to customers is at least 20 to 1 if not higher. The after-barfine service will obviously be YMMV. So I can't comment for others on their experiences. Only that my experiences have been overall good with the worst cases being average.

And even though the prices / barfines haven't been formally lowered, I think that the gogos at Nana are still worth visiting.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2482371]Regardless what is sexually appealing for a female in or out of the P4P business, I'm pretty sure the whole idea of P4P from the beginning was to cater to men who were not already getting plenty of free pussy from hot young girls..............[/QUOTE]I doubt that. The first P4P probably went like this: caveman walking with club on one shoulder, dead rabbit on the other and erect penis protruding through his loin wrap. Hungry woman looking on says to him: "I'll give you sex for half of that rabbit".

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2482679]While I still don't subscribe to your belief that good looking girls avoid good looking men because they either fear rejection or they will disappoint him with their service and while I don't see any evidence of this where I play I have to admit I have no experience with how it works online. I agree here its possible good looking girls while browsing through profiles with pics pass on good looking guys for the reasons you mention but how is then as a good looking guy you seem to have no end of good looking young girls lining up to spend time with you. Not doubting you ET just curious.[/QUOTE]Franciscass, you're responding to my observations about what one might conclude is the reason a girl in a go-go bar, a club, Thermae, online, etc chooses one customer over the other as though I'd announced the results of a decades long scientic experiment with only one possible conclusion and interpretation. LOL. I was merely pointing out what I consider a rather obvious bit of human behavior that can exist in the P4P world as much as it exists in the normal dating world; some girls will feel intimidated about approaching or responding to the attentions of a better looking man, don't feel comfortable about dealing with possible rejection for "not measuring up" to what she thinks he is used to and will instead prefer to choose easier prey instead.

That was my response to what had seemed to be the prevailing take here that hotter looking hookers will ignore one customer in favor of another based on what they find sexually attractive. As though, for instance, the reason better looking girls in Thermae and some go-go bars that only focus on approaching or responding to Asian customers are more sexually attracted to the fat and/or old Asian dudes I certainly see them responding well and enthusiastically to rather than a younger, fitter customer of any race.

On the issue of me supposedly having "no end of good looking young girls lining up to spend time with me", I think you might have missed or forgotten the part about all the "No" responses I get to what I consider minimal sexual activity to justify paying anything at all, the extra effort I put into finding good girls for me, my admissions that finding a good one (for me) is like finding a diamond in the rough and that I do not even bother with trying to score the top tier best looking girls in a venue but much prefer the second tier girls instead.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2482761]I doubt that. The first P4P probably went like this: caveman walking with club on one shoulder, dead rabbit on the other and erect penis protruding through his loin wrap. Hungry woman looking on says to him: "I'll give you sex for half of that rabbit".[/QUOTE]Ah, then you subscribe to the philosophy that all women are hookers.

Be prepared to get a stern talking to about that from Franciscass 😁

But to apply my possible alternative take on that example of P4P, if she was a particularly good looking female among other females and saw 10 men with rabbits, she might reasonably conclude she could get the whole rabbit from the uglier guys and with less risk of being refused.

My hotwife want to experience real fun in Bangkok / Phuket / Pattaya. Can you name any massage parlour which provide quality full service for woman (by man)? Or any male escort service (not gay) in reasonable price? She desperately wants a naughty hotwife experience in Thailand. Please help me with information.

This is the truth of most our lives isn't it? Do that many people do their jobs because they love the work? They take the job that they can get, that pays the highest, and that they can stomach. I sure as shit would rather be doing a lot other things that are either rewarding work wise or personally, but instead I work at the bank since I get the most money and nearly 7 weeks of holiday. But just like the girls if you were to staff my office with a bunch of hotties verse a bunch of american girls I would sure as shit be happier.

[QUOTE=GrapeMan;2482584]I'm sure its interesting to discuss whether the P4 P girls care what you look like, and yeah you'll absolutely get better service if you're attractive.

But lets not make any question of the real deal: they care about who they can extract the most money from more than anything. Don't kid yourself. They want the guy who is going to shower them in cash far more than anything else going on, looks or whatever. Is a girl happy to please some old fat guy? No, but she likes money, sure she'd rather get the money from a hot stud, but those aren't really her clients. But no matter what you look like or how you act, all problems can be solved with baht. Often not even too much of it.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Turgid;2482761]I doubt that. The first P4P probably went like this: caveman walking with club on one shoulder, dead rabbit on the other and erect penis protruding through his loin wrap. Hungry woman looking on says to him: "I'll give you sex for half of that rabbit".[/QUOTE]Yes possible but he might have a problem if if he is a 6 foot handsome well groomed fit troglodyte with the latest fashionable branded loin cloth and matching club in which case fearing rejection and disappointing him back in the cave she will opt for his Barney Rubble lookalike sidekick.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2482872]Franciscass, you're responding to my observations about what one might conclude is the reason a girl in a go-go bar, a club, Thermae, online, etc chooses one customer over the other as though I'd announced the results of a decades long scientic experiment with only one possible conclusion and interpretation. LOL. I was merely pointing out what I consider a rather obvious bit of human behavior that can exist in the P4P world as much as it exists in the normal dating world; some girls will feel intimidated about approaching or responding to the attentions of a better looking man, don't feel comfortable about dealing with possible rejection for "not measuring up" to what she thinks he is used to and will instead prefer to choose easier prey instead.

That was my response to what had seemed to be the prevailing take here that hotter looking hookers will ignore one customer in favor of another based on what they find sexually attractive. As though, for instance, the reason better looking girls in Thermae and some go-go bars that only focus on approaching or responding to Asian customers are more sexually attracted to the fat and/or old Asian dudes I certainly see them responding well and enthusiastically to rather than a younger, fitter customer of any race.

On the issue of me supposedly having "no end of good looking young girls lining up to spend time with me", I think you might have missed or forgotten the part about all the "No" responses I get to what I consider minimal sexual activity to justify paying anything at all, the extra effort I put into finding good girls for me, my admissions that finding a good one (for me) is like finding a diamond in the rough and that I do not even bother with trying to score the top tier best looking girls in a venue but much prefer the second tier girls instead.[/QUOTE]I've noticed you seem to have modified your position from I what I previously understood you to say was the norm to now being a more vague "some girls" do. There are no absolutes in the universe and there will always be exceptions.

Keeping it simple though you believe P4P girls where they have choice will avoid good looking guys in favor of less attractive guys because they fear rejection or not being good enough in the sack. Not for the first time ET we will just have to agree to disagree.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2482874]Ah, then you subscribe to the philosophy that all women are hookers.[/QUOTE]And all men are consumers.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2483002]And all men are consumers.[/QUOTE]All men are mongers.

[QUOTE=TChizzle;2482728]For the past month (Aug / Sep), I've checked-out the gogo bar scene as much as I could.

My report is that Nana is the place to go for Gogo bars right now. Cowboy would be next in line but really the only place worthwhile there would be Baccara and maybe Crazy House (for the all-nude viewing). And I never made it out to Patpong, but if it's anything like how it was before COVID, then XXX Lounge would probably be the only one I'd visit over there.

Now for Nana, the only gogos worth visiting right now and if I was forced to only choose one gogo to visit, I would visit:

Based on attractive lineups, I would have to go with Rainbow 4 (for the more natural-looking girls).

Based on groping sessions, I would go with Rainbow 5 (for the cosmetic enhancements).

Based on just chilling without being constantly harassed by girls / mamasans, I would go with Butterflies (best open layout for sitting and viewing).

Based on all-around gogo experience, you can't go wrong with Billboard (all-around good).

And if I had to only choose one gogo to visit right now, I would say Rainbow 4. Even though I get quoted Rainbow's barfine as being 1 k baht. Most of the other gogo's barfine that I get quoted is 700 baht. I just find the girl lineup there matches my personal preference.

I don't bother haggling price with the girls even though you definitely could haggle. The initial ST price is always quoted to me as 3 k baht. A Rainbow 4 girl discounted her ST price to me down to 2 k without any haggling, and I couldn't say no to that bargain. She was super young and fit with no tattoos. And her service was great.

And most of these girls that I barfined exchanged their Line info with me. But it's becoming somewhat annoying to receive random Line startup conversations from these girls trying to arrange meetings. My guess is this is the case because most of these girls no longer have a steady stream of customers.

But overall, I would say you can find a fun experience at these mentioned gogos. Their lineups are all good. You can grope these girls at all these venues and have your own personal lap dance for the price of a lady drink. When sitting at these gogos nowadays, the ratio of girls to customers is at least 20 to 1 if not higher. The after-barfine service will obviously be YMMV. So I can't comment for others on their experiences. Only that my experiences have been overall good with the worst cases being average.

And even though the prices / barfines haven't been formally lowered, I think that the gogos at Nana are still worth visiting.[/QUOTE]Excellent report! I think bars like Butterflies insist on 2 lady drinks whereas I don't believe Rainbow 4 does so there's not much of a price difference between 800+2 lady drinks and 1000+1 lady drink.

I remember thinking Rainbow 4 was overrated last time I went there with bleached hair and too much make-up covering up some fairly hardened looking women but that was a long time ago.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2483052]All men are mongers.[/QUOTE]All men pursue money, power and / or recognition in order to have sex.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2482915]Yes possible but he might have a problem if if he is a 6 foot handsome well groomed fit troglodyte with the latest fashionable branded loin cloth and matching club in which case fearing rejection and disappointing him back in the cave she will opt for his Barney Rubble lookalike sidekick.[/QUOTE]Yep, in some cases, but certainly not all, if her judgement is correct that he is attractive enough to get all the rabbit-free sex he wants from cave girls at least as hot as her, she might very well discover soon enough that the only sure thing half rabbit in her future is the one in Barney's hand, not his. Live and learn.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2483105]Yep, in some cases, but certainly not all, if her judgement is correct that he is attractive enough to get all the rabbit-free sex he wants from cave girls at least as hot as her, she might very well discover soon enough that the only sure thing half rabbit in her future is the one in Barney's hand, not his. Live and learn.[/QUOTE]Plus she could be vegetarian and doesn't eat rabbit.

[QUOTE=DrBrianJones;2483091]All men pursue money, power and / or recognition in order to have sex.[/QUOTE]And why you should also strive to keep yourself fit and in shape.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2483209]And why you should also strive to keep yourself fit and in shape.[/QUOTE]Sounds eminently sensible but there is school of thought out there that says the good looking girls will then avoid you.

It is apparent that some guys on here believe that because they are buffed they can get better hookers than the corpulent mongers. Makes me recall a particular day at an FKK in Frankfurt. A young good looking customer entered the club. He resembled a young Leonardo diCaprio, only better looking. No girls rushed to him. He was treated like any other monger in the club. I saw when he chose a girl who I had been with before. That does not mean the FKK girls do not rush after certain customers. They do. They run after the Japanese, Korean and Chinese visitors to the establishment and age and fitness level does not matter. I well remember a beauty I wanted to session, she was walking in my direction, I smiled at her hoping to attract her attention, she passed me by without batting an eye and went straight to an Asian guy she was focused on who ended up not even taking her to the room. Buffness has nothing to do with it, working girls will gravitate to where they believe they can get more money for less work.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2483315]It is apparent that some guys on here believe that because they are buffed they can get better hookers than the corpulent mongers. Makes me recall a particular day at an FKK in Frankfurt. A young good looking customer entered the club. He resembled a young Leonardo diCaprio, only better looking. No girls rushed to him. He was treated like any other monger in the club. I saw when he chose a girl who I had been with before. That does not mean the FKK girls do not rush after certain customers. They do. They run after the Japanese, Korean and Chinese visitors to the establishment and age and fitness level does not matter. I well remember a beauty I wanted to session, she was walking in my direction, I smiled at her hoping to attract her attention, she passed me by without batting an eye and went straight to an Asian guy she was focused on who ended up not even taking her to the room. Buffness has nothing to do with it, working girls will gravitate to where they believe they can get more money for less work.[/QUOTE]That's why I think old guys have an advantage. Old guys have a hard time keeping an ErectionS.

My experience is that obese guys have no chance with the hottest of the hottest girls in the GoGo bars. The theory that the hottest girls prefer an ugly / obese guy over a normal weight guy is pathetic. Sounds.

Like someone is trying to make himself feel good.

I've been both normal weight and over-weight leaning on the border to obese (110 kg 1,90 m), and my personal experience is that as a normal weight I could have a great experience.

With any girl in the GoGo bars, and average looks of the girls sitting with me was a lot better than what I was experiencing as an over-weight guy.

Being normal weight I experienced the hotties contacting me, but as soon as I entered the overweight bordering to obesity league nothing was free, and the hottest girls in the bars didn't even bother to give me eye contact. And no I'm not going to ask mamasan to get me the hottest girl. Why would you want to fuck a girl who are not attracted to you the slightest?

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2483209]And why you should also strive to keep yourself fit and in shape.[/QUOTE]I'm not great at this, but it is sufficiently offset by carrying plenty of rabbits.

[QUOTE=DrBrianJones;2483091]All men pursue money, power and / or recognition in order to have sex.[/QUOTE]Yep right & money is the power to do anything.

[QUOTE=JohnReter335;2483420]Yep right & money is the power to do anything.[/QUOTE]It can't buy respect.

Some mongers use it to cut in line, but like Goffering posted one day, all that does, is get oneself labelled an easy mark.

I get more respect low balling than any monger ever will overpaying 3rd world hookers.

I was curious to see the location and walked through Nana on Soi 7 the other day. It's a complex of beer bars with some of them having billiard tables. The place has potential to be a cool hangout spot. Unfortunately, I did not see any attractive and quality girls that I would sit and have a drink. Then again, I still haven't found any beer bar places here in Bangkok that had P4P girls I would consider attractive. I will keep looking.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2483315]It is apparent that some guys on here believe that because they are buffed they can get better hookers than the corpulent mongers.[/QUOTE]Yep from the sounds of it some of you guys are complete studs in the looks department. I'm jealous with my comb over. Imo if you're that good looking you DO NOT need to be going to bars in Thailand to pick up girls unless of course dark skinned Thai girls happen to be your thing. You could go to any civilian bar or beach resort in the country of your choice and pick up hot girls for free. Oddly I guess I have NEVER bumped in to any of you guys in a gogo bar or FKK club because I can count on 2 hands the number of good looking guys I have seen in a gogo bar or FKK club since 2011.

I saw an extremely good looking guy alone at Dollhouse in Pattaya. He had 10 girls swarm him the second he walked in. The girl sitting with me said she prefers guys with absolutely no muscles and a comb over. Bless her heart. Who am I not to believe her! However, in no time at all the girls left him except one fat ugly one. That's the girl he got to grope and DFK for free. Bottom line. The buff good looking early 20s guy will get the girl's attention for a minute but he can't keep them with him once the girls figure out they're not going to get a drink from him. He even flashed his 6 pack thinking he was king sh1t. As expected though, the waitresses were impressed but not the gogo girls. Money talks in Thailand, not looks as long as you aren't Shrek like.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2483527]Yep from the sounds of it some of you guys are complete studs in the looks department. I'm jealous with my comb over. Imo if you're that good looking you DO NOT need to be going to bars in Thailand to pick up girls unless of course dark skinned Thai girls happen to be your thing. You could go to any civilian bar or beach resort in the country of your choice and pick up hot girls for free. Oddly I guess I have NEVER bumped in to any of you guys in a gogo bar or FKK club because I can count on 2 hands the number of good looking guys I have seen in a gogo bar or FKK club since 2011.

I saw an extremely good looking guy alone at Dollhouse in Pattaya. He had 10 girls swarm him the second he walked in. The girl sitting with me said she prefers guys with absolutely no muscles and a comb over. Bless her heart. Who am I not to believe her! However, in no time at all the girls left him except one fat ugly one. That's the girl he got to grope and DFK for free. Bottom line. The buff good looking early 20s guy will get the girl's attention for a minute but he can't keep them with him once the girls figure out they're not going to get a drink from him. He even flashed his 6 pack thinking he was king sh1t. As expected though, the waitresses were impressed but not the gogo girls. Money talks in Thailand, not looks as long as you aren't Shrek like.[/QUOTE]I think your "Bottom line" story about the girls figuring out they were not going to get a drink from the guy who (they would assume) could get laid from similar girls for free elsewhere illustrates the point I made about that dynamic. Of course, experienced working girls aren't going to repeat that little experiment over and over again to see if the outcome will ever improve their prospects for getting a drink, barfined, close to their asking price without hassle, scoring a reliable repeat customer, etc.

It doesn't even have to be true that a particular customer CAN and DOES get laid for free with girls at least as attractive as the working girl that is sizing him up as a potential customer. It is only what the working girl assumes to be the case that determines her approach, response, enthusiasm or lack thereof for him.

Which is what I meant when I said if getting a cold shoulder response on encountering a hot girl or, in cases where she agrees to go with you but the service in the room is dreary, nobody should automatically assume it is because she thinks you are not as attractive as the customer she approaches instead or treats much better. In some cases it might be something closer to the opposite of that reason.

Note to all: I said in "some" cases it "might be." I did not say in "all" cases it "is." lol. It is simply a suggestion for us punters not to take every rebuff from a hot hooker in a go-go bar, beer bar, club, on the street, in Thermae Bkk, wherever to be mounting evidence of their repulsion for us due to our age, weight, skin color, ethnicity, race, looks and so on. It could very well be that she thinks dealing with you would be a waste of her time and effort compared to other customers in the vicinity.

Guys,

Prostitution is a job, the girls you see are there to make money, it's work. Just put yourself in their shoes. What would you consider a good day if you were a top tier girl?

1. A day where you made 10000 baht by talking 3 ugly customers.

2. A day you made 3000 bht because you turned down the uglies for a good looking customer.

They're there to put food on the table and pay the bills, not date. Top tier girls can also get free sex from just about any guy, so they're not there scoping out good looking customers that are always available to them for free, they're there to maximize the amount of money they can make on that day.

Have you not seen the looks of some of the guys walking out with the top tier girls?

Of course girls would prefer a good looking customer over an ugly if they were both the same in terms of payment, but that's not reality. Just as if you were a jigalo you would not be getting 8 to 10 girls paying for your service. And even if you did, if this were your job you would prefer the 3/10 fat chicks that are easy lays and pay well to the 8/10 chicks that don't. Because this is work, after you get off of work you can choose who you want to be with.

Let's stop kidding ourselves.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2483105]Yep, in some cases, but certainly not all, if her judgement is correct that he is attractive enough to get all the rabbit-free sex he wants from cave girls at least as hot as her, she might very well discover soon enough that the only sure thing half rabbit in her future is the one in Barney's hand, not his. Live and learn.[/QUOTE]Yes but that's not a realistic scenario, nobody no matter how hot he is just gets free sex from as many top girls as he wants. Reality is one top girl will hook him and prevent him from the rest of the top girls. She's not going to sit around watching him shag other top girls she'd rather be with an ugly loyal guy. That top guy with the top girl would still be paying for the nice cave and the rabbits for his top jealous girl to feast on as she gets fatter and fatter. He would then also be looking to give up some rabbits for some other mid tier girl.

That 8's more in line with reality. We do not live in some imaginary world where hot guys are having endless free sex with top girls for free, so her judgment to begin with is imaginary.

[QUOTE=DazeUp;2483586]Yes but that's not a realistic scenario, nobody no matter how hot he is just gets free sex from as many top girls as he wants. Reality is one top girl will hook him and prevent him from the rest of the top girls. She's not going to sit around watching him shag other top girls she'd rather be with an ugly loyal guy. That top guy with the top girl would still be paying for the nice cave and the rabbits for his top jealous girl to feast on as she gets fatter and fatter. He would then also be looking to give up some rabbits for some other mid tier girl.

That 8's more in line with reality. We do not live in some imaginary world where hot guys are having endless free sex with top girls for free, so her judgment to begin with is imaginary.[/QUOTE]I totally don't care if girls go with ugly or handsome men. Girls are always looking for money! And of course if the guy is handsome and pay her, she stays with him but most of the time, handsome guys are mongers and they go in all the gogos in BKK, Phuket and Pattaya and they love to fuck many girls! And if the sexy boy stay many days even for free with a gogo girl, don't worry, be sure he ll spend money for her in shopping. Thai ladies are never free, especially if you meet her in Pattaya or in any gogo in Thailand.

And be sure, if after 2 or 3 days the sexy doesn't give her any money, the sexy girl will leave hilm and will tell her directly she need to work and make money. That if he doesn't take care of her (like they love to say), she'll have to go work again with customers. So if the sexy man loves her, he ll pay her, if not he doesn't care and he ll fuck another one.

I remember a girl Aom from Soi 6, who was one of my favorites working girls (usually I fuck her 1 time per week bareback) told me after 10 days I didn't meet her, she had a boyfriend and was not working anymore in bar. At the beginning I was sad, and she sent me pictures of her and the boyfriend. He was not so good looking but was in the twenties like her and she loves to go nightclubs with him everyday.

And like I said the handsome boy was on holidays and stayed 1 week in Pattaya with her, and the next week I was in Soi 6 again and she was back in her bar! And called me to fuck with me again.

So of course I come back fuck her, and she was even angry with me because I fucked 2 other girls Pony and Nam bareback from her bar when she was with the man.

But finally after 2 lady drinks and 1500 bahts for her, she let me fuck her again in the room upstairs.

80% of girls really have no say in who they have Sex with.

They don't attract that many men to begin with. LOL.

It depends on what is paid but the belief that Thai working girls have no respect for generous customers and see them as fools and easy marks but respect the Cheap Charlie's who beat then down to rock bottom fees is so ridiculous as to be laughable. It goes something like I respect this guy because he is smart and knows he can fuck me for 1000 baht but I have no respect for this other guy because he gives me 2000. This point of view is usually put out there by these same miserly punters to justify their behavior. Girls love and respect guys who are generous and sure some of them will take advantage of naive newbies and yes they fuck cheap charlies when they have to out of necessity but come on nobody truly respects or even likes miserly mongers.

Was curious if anyone has heard of when Bangkok will open the city for international tourists or if it already has? I have tried to find some information but just read that October 1st the will be opening Phuket but nothing about Bangkok. Thank in advance.

Sly.

Other than actual primary source data confirming theories, I think it's been interesting to read some of the opinions regarding what drives a P4 P Thai girl's decision-making.

These are the questions that came to mind when I tried to understand what everyone has been discussing:

Do a majority of P4 P Thai girls prefer to go with physically attractive customers or physically unattractive customers? (Considering both types of customers having equal levels of cash).

Do a majority of P4 P Thai girls prefer attractive customers with less money / generosity compared to unattractive customers with more money / generosity?

Do a majority of P4 P Thai girls provide better, worse, or an equal level of service for attractive customers when compared to unattractive customers?

Do a majority of P4 P Thai girls make customer selection decisions based on logic alone (makes presumptions and calculates best risk) or emotions alone (physical attraction is the key driving force)? Or a balance of both (I. E. It depends)?

Does generalizing and stating only "Thai girls" lead readers to interpret and suggest meaning as "All Thai girls", "A majority of Thai girls", or "Some Thai girls"? Or is it unclear?

Do P4 P customers in Thailand really care about the reasons why P4 P Thai girls would select them? On a scale from 0 to 10 (0 = Could care less; 10 = Really, really care), how much do P4 P customers really care about these reasons?

Anyways, I think everyone agrees that cash is king here in Thailand.

My opinion is just bring cash to the P4 P table here in Thailand and you'll be alright.

[QUOTE=TChizzle;2483793]

My opinion is just bring cash to the P4 P table here in Thailand and you'll be alright.[/QUOTE]Hoo-ray! Some sense being posted at last.

Damn, I read the forum every morning with my coffee (and my cook in my hand LOL, not) before I start the days work. I love reading just about everything that is written here but sometimes I wonder what kind of eternal discussions are going on?

When I was in my late twenties, I looked good and was in great shape. (I needed to say in my twenties, because if I told you I look great now, you would call med a bullshiter and rant about that for another 15 posts). At home in Europe I can fuck with "who I want" with a little effort and charm. But that's exactly what I want to avoid when I go to Thailand. I do not want to make an effort, I do not want to be charming, I do not want to play games with a girl who thinks she is special wearing a Michael Kors bag just like anyone else. I want to "just be" and then have the opportunity to buy exactly what I want, at exactly what price I want. No charm needed, no bullshit from me and no reason to present the best about myself. Business only, exactly how I love it.

The appearance of me and other customers does not matter. The reason I participate in the scene is because I want hassle free days without fake behavior from girls who think they are so fucking special even though there are hundreds or even thousands of exactly the same kind of girl to pick on.

No, thank god I know P4P.

[QUOTE=Stykler;2483803]Hoo-ray! Some sense being posted at last.[/QUOTE]Ugly Customers vs Handsome ones.

It's insane.

[QUOTE=TChizzle;2483793]Other than actual primary source data confirming theories, I think it's been interesting to read some of the opinions regarding what drives a P4 P Thai girl's decision-making.

These are the questions that came to mind when I tried to understand what everyone has been discussing:

Do a majority of P4 P Thai girls prefer to go with physically attractive customers or physically unattractive customers? (Considering both types of customers having equal levels of cash).

Do a majority of P4 P Thai girls prefer attractive customers with less money / generosity compared to unattractive customers with more money / generosity?

Do a majority of P4 P Thai girls provide better, worse, or an equal level of service for attractive customers when compared to unattractive customers?

Do a majority of P4 P Thai girls make customer selection decisions based on logic alone (makes presumptions and calculates best risk) or emotions alone (physical attraction is the key driving force)? Or a balance of both (I. E. It depends)?.[/QUOTE]My predictions.

Attractive.

With more money.

Equal.

It depends.

Majority.

2.

Just bring cash! Correct.

[QUOTE=DazeUp;2483586]Yes but that's not a realistic scenario, nobody no matter how hot he is just gets free sex from as many top girls as he wants. Reality is one top girl will hook him and prevent him from the rest of the top girls. She's not going to sit around watching him shag other top girls she'd rather be with an ugly loyal guy. That top guy with the top girl would still be paying for the nice cave and the rabbits for his top jealous girl to feast on as she gets fatter and fatter. He would then also be looking to give up some rabbits for some other mid tier girl.

That 8's more in line with reality. We do not live in some imaginary world where hot guys are having endless free sex with top girls for free, so her judgment to begin with is imaginary.[/QUOTE]Of course, it is all about what the girl imagines is the case with this or that customer, not the reality.

For example, the reality is most of us are delighted to gaze upon the 22 year old body of our choice for the night standing stark naked in our room before fucking her even if her boobs are small and she is carrying an extra 2 kilos. But that girl thinks we have seen naked and been with nothing but Victoria's Secret models before arriving in Thailand and if she doesn't run from the shower to jump under the bed sheet wrapped in a towel we might vomit on the floor at the sight of her.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2483857]Of course, it is all about what the girl imagines is the case with this or that customer, not the reality.

For example, the reality is most of us are delighted to gaze upon the 22 year old body of our choice for the night standing stark naked in our room before fucking her even if her boobs are small and she is carrying an extra 2 kilos. But that girl thinks we have seen naked and been with nothing but Victoria's Secret models before arriving in Thailand and if she doesn't run from the shower to jump under the bed sheet wrapped in a towel we might vomit on the floor at the sight of her.[/QUOTE]I think girls are more concerned with how they look as opposed to what we look like.

One of my favorites got the implants. She was on the small side but not flat. Easily got customers.

Now looks like a Freak. Small girl with Balloon s for Tits. Not appealing at all.

[QUOTE=MarquisdeSade1;2483510]It can't buy respect.............[/QUOTE]You remind me of a discussion I had with a working girl from Africa in a German FKK who I told I was not interested. She said to me if I spend so much money to travel and visit FKKs why I was wearing a cheap watch and not a Rolex. I told her because they both give me what I want which is the time. She then retorted that with the watch I am wearing I won't get respect.

That hits right on a primary point. While we can be kind and generous the girls and the mongers are operating in different worlds. Not to be offense but the respect of an african working girl in a german FKK is worth fuck all. Same as the respect of an issan farm girl on a chrome pole. The reality is we both come from such different worlds that while the educated amongst us can understand and appreciate their side they have no real concept of life in the west. The only common currency, pun intended, between monger and working girl is money and sex. Beyond that anything else is abstract at best. You can take the girl out of the bar, but you can't take the bar out of the girl.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2483914]You remind me of a discussion I had with a working girl from Africa in a German FKK who I told I was not interested. She said to me if I spend so much money to travel and visit FKKs why I was wearing a cheap watch and not a Rolex. I told her because they both give me what I want which is the time. She then retorted that with the watch I am wearing I won't get respect.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=UnfaithfulLord;2483805]The reason I participate in the scene is because I want hassle free days without fake behavior from girls who think they are so fucking special.

No, thank god I know P4P.[/QUOTE]Most of us also move to Thailand to be relating to truthful, non-fake working girls.

Special mention to the tall ones with funny voices on Soi 6/1, Pattaya.

[QUOTE=DannyDuck;2483887]I think girls are more concerned with how they look as opposed to what we look like.
...[/QUOTE]I agree. That is a central theme in what I have been saying in this side discussion and why the topic of, ok let's say Ugly Customers vs Handsome Customers, can be useful to understanding what is going on in the girl's mind for those of us for whom the basic, standard Thai P4P fare that is easily available to virtually everyone without giving much thought to it at all isn't nearly enough.

If your desired girls aren't responding well with you because you are ugly, the usual remedy is well known to be more money.

But if the reason for that is because of what you cited, that she lacks confidence in her looks with you and feels inhibited by a worry that she won't "measure up" to what she imagines is your required and accustomed standard (I might add the related issue that she thinks you have been with too many other ladies lately, an STD concern), then more money isn't necessarily going to be the most effective remedy.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2483914]You remind me of a discussion I had with a working girl from Africa in a German FKK who I told I was not interested. She said to me if I spend so much money to travel and visit FKKs why I was wearing a cheap watch and not a Rolex. I told her because they both give me what I want which is the time. She then retorted that with the watch I am wearing I won't get respect.[/QUOTE]Yes, but some of us would go out shopping and come in the next day sporting a Rolex to gain the "love and respect" of the WGs, that is more than the 'love and respect' the working girls give to the average 'cheap charlies' that pay the market price and no more. We may also stop by the gym so we look fit the next time we stroll into the gogo bar and draw the attention of the girls, pay for a 5 star hotel just to impress the WGs, and hopefully with the combination of all that and a handsome 1 to 2 k tip, we'll have attained their 'love and respect' and secured better service.

I'm glad these discussions are taking place, because I really thought this was black and white, but I'm now starting to understand the mindset of some mongers and the many greys they perceive.

Like one poster said, the life of the western man and the Thai working girl are so different and they think in completely different ways. Good to know its the same with us mongers as well, and maybe some of us will come around to understand why some of our fellow mongers sponsor girls, paying their rent and bills throughout the year, just for the privilege of a few nights of service that she continues to give men from all corners of the globe while he is a way, in the very apt that he is paying for without so much as a thought about it or about 'love and respect'.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2483994]I agree. That is a central theme in what I have been saying in this side discussion and why the topic of, ok let's say Ugly Customers vs Handsome Customers, can be useful to understanding what is going on in the girl's mind for those of us for whom the basic, standard Thai P4P fare that is easily available to virtually everyone without giving much thought to it at all isn't nearly enough.

If your desired girls aren't responding well with you because you are ugly, the usual remedy is well known to be more money.

But if the reason for that is because of what you cited, that she lacks confidence in her looks with you and feels inhibited by a worry that she won't "measure up" to what she imagines is your required and accustomed standard (I might add the related issue that she thinks you have been with too many other ladies lately, an STD concern), then more money isn't necessarily going to be the most effective remedy.[/QUOTE]Girls in Pattaya know me very well, especially in Soi 6 and Soi LK. Ladies love me and fight with me each time because they say I'm big butterfly (LOL yes I fuck many ladies). They fight with me each time because I never wear condoms, and all the girls speak together about me because I fuck them all bareback! And it makes me smile a lot, because each time they say "no good, no condom" and each time I answer them "no condom big money for you" and then each time they still let me fuck them without!

Anyone has been or have any info about Random bar in Nana Plaza? It seems to be a new bar but couldn't find any info online.

I walked past a few times and always saw very cute girls outside.

[QUOTE=Gilolo;2484023]Girls in Pattaya know me very well, especially in Soi 6 and Soi LK. Ladies love me and fight with me each time because they say I'm big butterfly (LOL yes I fuck many ladies). They fight with me each time because I never wear condoms, and all the girls speak together about me because I fuck them all bareback! And it makes me smile a lot, because each time they say "no good, no condom" and each time I answer them "no condom big money for you" and then each time they still let me fuck them without![/QUOTE]But you have also described your method of going over the top expressing your love for the girl if that will produce the result you want or to suggest you will support them and their family and so on. I would consider that to be "more" than just negotiating for a higher rate.

I know many punters who use those methods to convince the girls to go bareback with them and it can definitely work better than just whipping out an additional 1,000 baht note to wave in front of them at crunch time. Works even better if they do both.

Of course, once we have been there bareback with a girl it is very rare for her to change the rules for next time even after they've seen us with 100 other girls. Lol. Assuming also they have not noticed any of the others or themselves coming up pregnant from us or with any new health issues it can even be a plus.

I know mamasans in go-go bars who bring new girls to me already agreeable to barebscking it with me. But they wouldn't continue to do that if the girls I've been with already showed a pattern of missing work due to pregnancy or other health problems.

[QUOTE=Gilolo;2484023]Girls in Pattaya know me very well, especially in Soi 6 and Soi LK. Ladies love me and fight with me each time because they say I'm big butterfly (LOL yes I fuck many ladies). They fight with me each time because I never wear condoms, and all the girls speak together about me because I fuck them all bareback! And it makes me smile a lot, because each time they say "no good, no condom" and each time I answer them "no condom big money for you" and then each time they still let me fuck them without![/QUOTE]If we ask you're likely not going to name Soi 6 and LK Metro girls you've done BBFS with so how about naming the ones who say no to you for BBFS. That is the type of info that is actually helpful to a board like this. Will help guys like ET and others who only do BBFS avoid these girls. Name, number, and bar would be helpful.

Hey ET, how do you approach this with the mamasans? Did you inform them of your preference?

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2484060]But you have also described your method of going over the top expressing your love for the girl if that will produce the result you want or to suggest you will support them and their family and so on. I would consider that to be "more" than just negotiating for a higher rate.

I know many punters who use those methods to convince the girls to go bareback with them and it can definitely work better than just whipping out an additional 1,000 baht note to wave in front of them at crunch time. Works even better if they do both.

Of course, once we have been there bareback with a girl it is very rare for her to change the rules for next time even after they've seen us with 100 other girls. Lol. Assuming also they have not noticed any of the others or themselves coming up pregnant from us or with any new health issues it can even be a plus.

I know mamasans in go-go bars who bring new girls to me already agreeable to barebscking it with me. But they wouldn't continue to do that if the girls I've been with already showed a pattern of missing work due to pregnancy or other health problems.[/QUOTE]

Hey fellas,

Have been a regular to Thailand over past 3-4 years and have better experiences every second time I was there. Post Covid I am looking to do a 3-4 people combined visit (Friends ofcoz) and am looking for an organizer if any who can take care of some good location Villa and Crazy party girls as per requirements. Rest of the intricacies can be worked along. Not looking for party models who can be just looked at, need gals who can give action. Just wanted to check with pros here if this is doable and if any one has a lead for such party organizers. I could google some online but am not sure about the ingenuity so thought to ask here first. Not comprehending from the money side, so that shouldn't be a criteria in the search.

Cheers,

TIA.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2484074]If we ask you're likely not going to name Soi 6 and LK Metro girls you've done BBFS with so how about naming the ones who say no to you for BBFS. That is the type of info that is actually helpful to a board like this. Will help guys like ET and others who only do BBFS avoid these girls. Name, number, and bar would be helpful.[/QUOTE]Well the problem is they all say yes! If you want to avoid these girls, it's easy, each time you'll see a very young sexy lady in soi 6 or Soi LK, you can imagine I already fucked her bareback!

But you know, nowadays girls in Pattaya or Bangkok are used to fuck bareback! When I speak with them about other customers, they tell me that most of the time they ask to fuck them bareback! And you know most of the time, you even don't need to ask.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2484060] Assuming also they have not noticed any of the others or themselves coming up pregnant from us or with any new health issues it can even be a plus.

I know mamasans in go-go bars who bring new girls to me already agreeable to barebscking it with me. But they wouldn't continue to do that if the girls I've been with already showed a pattern of missing work due to pregnancy or other health problems.[/QUOTE]Yes of course, these girls are real diligent with that. They have tabs on the other girls we go with just in case they get pregnant or catch something, that's a good indication that they caught it from you and not the other 100 mongers they saw that month.

I need to apply this method as well, if I've been with a girl bareback, I'll keep tabs on all the guys they go with. That way if one of them ends up with an std I'll know to cancel that girl.

[QUOTE=DazeUp;2484017]Yes, but some of us would go out shopping and come in the next day sporting a Rolex to gain the "love and respect" of the WGs......................[/QUOTE]All along I thought the reason why the WGs did not respect me was because I stuck my tongue in their bungholes, but it was really because of my watch.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2484209]All along I thought the reason why the WGs did not respect me was because I stuck my tongue in their bungholes, but it was really because of my watch.[/QUOTE]Some girls respect me because I give them money.

Some girls don't respect me because I give them money.

For Sex of course.

Quite the Conundrum. LOL.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2484074]If we ask you're likely not going to name Soi 6 and LK Metro girls you've done BBFS with so how about naming the ones who say no to you for BBFS. That is the type of info that is actually helpful to a board like this. Will help guys like ET and others who only do BBFS avoid these girls. Name, number, and bar would be helpful.[/QUOTE]Just avoid the girls of Nightwish Group because you can be sure I BBFS almost all their girls!

[QUOTE=MaddyJ88;2484090]Am looking for an organizer if any who can take care of some good location villa and crazy party girls as per requirements. Rest of the intricacies can be worked along. Not looking for party models who can be just looked at, need gals who can give action. Just wanted to check with pros here if this is doable and if any one has a lead for such party organizers.[/QUOTE]I am definitely the organizer you seek. It goes without saying that I know many crazy party girls who can give action as per requirements. And I can easily arrange for a good location villa. You are correct that we will have to work along the rest of the intricacies, but that should not be a problem. In order to get started, please advise when you plan to visit Pattaya, how many will be in your posse and summarize your requirements for the girls who can give action. I shall require a retainer of 50,000 baht -- paid in advance.

I still love you.

But why am I so irrational in spending money.

It's only Wednesday and:

- Monday. I did fuck a girl for 1. 5 K baht: 20 years old. No condom, anal, cum on her face, 2 rounds.

- Tuesday. I did had a regular girl. Did go out eating and drinking with her. Paid a room close to the bar. And gave her 3 K for sex with a condom and a 3 minutes BJ.

- Wednesday. I was still horny, but missed a good BJ yesterday. Planned to go to Tokyo. But that seemed to be closed. So went again to 7-Heaven. Paid 1. 3 K for only an okay BJ.

Will I spend my money more wisely tomorrow? Questions!

[QUOTE=Gilolo;2484134]Well the problem is they all say yes! If you want to avoid these girls, it's easy, each time you'll see a very young sexy lady in soi 6 or Soi LK, you can imagine I already fucked her bareback!

But you know, nowadays girls in Pattaya or Bangkok are used to fuck bareback! When I speak with them about other customers, they tell me that most of the time they ask to fuck them bareback! And you know most of the time, you even don't need to ask.[/QUOTE]So now they all say yes to BBFS and it's up to 100% BBFS with Pattaya girls? ET, you should be hobbying in Pattaya!

[QUOTE=Gilolo;2484238]Just avoid the girls of Nightwish Group because you can be sure I BBFS almost all their girls![/QUOTE]

Wait, 8 hours later you now change it to almost all. So now it's not 100% any more?

Are the rest of you guys buying this story?

[QUOTE=MaddyJ88;2484090]Have been a regular to Thailand over past 3-4 years and have better experiences every second time I was there. Post Covid I am looking to do a 3-4 people combined visit (Friends ofcoz) and am looking for an organizer if any who can take care of some good location Villa and Crazy party girls as per requirements. [/QUOTE]I assume you and your buddies don't have special privileges to enter Thailand before the rest of us. By the time we are all able to enter Thailand all the girls and many more from starving families will be readily available for us. I see absolutely no reason for a party organizer. Just go grab girls you like with good personalities and the party just happens automatically. You say you are a regular to Thailand which is more reason you should know what to do without paying extra for a party organizer or a tour guide.

Maybe PM Gilolo. He says all the girls know him and almost all do BBFS with him. Maybe he'll even take you guys out and show you around for free!

[QUOTE=Mens2;2484262]I still love you.

But why am I so irrational in spending money.

Will I spend my money more wisely tomorrow? Questions![/QUOTE]That's amazing! I just had a very uncharacteristic and irrational experience in Bangkok myself.

I barfined a Rainbow 4 girl recently. During our session together, I was having trouble with the condom. And then the girl dared me to go BBFS with her. Normally, I would say no because I'm very averse to that type of risky activity with a P4 P girl. But this girl was smoking hot (for my standards at least). I looked at her with my fingers inside and feeling how wet she was down there. I thought for a second and just made an uncharacteristically risky decision to go for it. If she had something (I. E. STDs), then I guess that at that point I've decided that convenience and pleasure was more important than health. The BBFS session was overall great for sure! But was it worth it? In the moment, totally! But I guess only the future really can tell if this past activity was worth the risk.

But what do I do with future sessions with this girl? Continue with BBFS (because it was really good) or go back to the rubber? I think I know what I will most likely do and what is most likely going to happen.

The good thing is I have her Line, and if something does come up on any future STD testing, I have a way to at least contact her.

Yes. I love Bangkok right now.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2484388]So now they all say yes to BBFS and it's up to 100% BBFS with Pattaya girls? ET, you should be hobbying in Pattaya!

...[/QUOTE]LOL. Well, I can only speak about my experiences in Pattaya during normal times pre-Covid. I have not been there since. At this point all the norms that applied then no longer apply.

But during normal times it was difficult enough for me to find any girls anywhere in Pattaya that I judged to be worth as much as, say, 700 baht ST or 1,000 baht LT when I factored in looks, demeanor, attitude, tattoos, piercings, smoking along with the sexual experiences I'd had with any of them over the course of 8-10 trips there in the past 7+ years. And more difficult on Soi 6 than most other places around town.

Of the relatively few I bothered to engage with and spend my time, money and ejaculate on, I can count 1 that agreed to BBFS with me before I took her and she meant it. She was not worth repeating.

Then again, I don't generally play the games of taking them at late hours, when they are falling down drunk coming out of a bar at 3am, occupying their time for hours until they must feel pressure to go along with anything or lose the valuable time they wasted if they were booted out with little or no money, profess my undying love for them or promise to support them forever and so on. I tell them what I want straight up early in the evening when they are still sober and can easily choose a different customer if they are not into it with me.

My conclusion was (during normal times) the scant few lookers worth my time and money that I encountered in Pattaya were not into it with me but many, many more and better lookers (as well as the other factors; demeanor, attitude, etc) in Bangkok are.

Maybe I would find the results dramatically better for me now.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2484393]I assume you and your buddies don't have special privileges to enter Thailand before the rest of us. By the time we are all able to enter Thailand all the girls and many more from starving families will be readily available for us. I see absolutely no reason for a party organizer. Just go grab girls you like with good personalities and the party just happens automatically. You say you are a regular to Thailand which is more reason you should know what to do without paying extra for a party organizer or a tour guide.

Maybe PM Gilolo. He says all the girls know him and almost all do BBFS with him. Maybe he'll even take you guys out and show you around for free![/QUOTE]Hey!

Plan is nothing immediate based on the present situation. I have done many solo flings in Thailand. This is just an experience we discussed and wanted to try. I hope nothing wrong in that! Have seen few sites online promoting this so thought of checking here if anyone took a shot on this.

Cheers!

[QUOTE=Bunky;2484261]I am definitely the organizer you seek. It goes without saying that I know many crazy party girls who can give action as per requirements. And I can easily arrange for a good location villa. You are correct that we will have to work along the rest of the intricacies, but that should not be a problem. In order to get started, please advise when you plan to visit Pattaya, how many will be in your posse and summarize your requirements for the girls who can give action. I shall require a retainer of 50,000 baht -- paid in advance.[/QUOTE]Thanks for the reply. Am not looking for Pattaya as a location. May be Phuket. Are you are an expat in Thailand?

Shall get in touch once the situation gets better to travel.

Cheers.

[QUOTE=TChizzle;2484396]That's amazing! I just had a very uncharacteristic and irrational experience in Bangkok myself.

I barfined a Rainbow 4 girl recently. During our session together, I was having trouble with the condom. And then the girl dared me to go BBFS with her. Normally, I would say no because I'm very averse to that type of risky activity with a P4 P girl. But this girl was smoking hot (for my standards at least). I looked at her with my fingers inside and feeling how wet she was down there. I thought for a second and just made an uncharacteristically risky decision to go for it. If she had something (I. E. STDs), then I guess that at that point I've decided that convenience and pleasure was more important than health. The BBFS session was overall great for sure! But was it worth it? In the moment, totally! But I guess only the future really can tell if this past activity was worth the risk.

But what do I do with future sessions with this girl? Continue with BBFS (because it was really good) or go back to the rubber? I think I know what I will most likely do and what is most likely going to happen.

The good thing is I have her Line, and if something does come up on any future STD testing, I have a way to at least contact her.

Yes. I love Bangkok right now.[/QUOTE]Had a similar situation when I was in BKK in Jan. Smoking hot girl. We spent 3 days together. On second day she didn't ask for rubber and started bareback as she is one of the few who don't get much wet and have dry down south. Rest of the two days were without rubber. She had mentioned its new thing for her to go bareback and she gets tested every 3 months. I didn't buy it of course. Thankfully don't get any symptoms.

Don't think will repeat the same mistake unless Junior rides over the brain again!!

[QUOTE=TChizzle;2484396]The good thing is I have her Line, and if something does come up on any future STD testing, I have a way to at least contact her.[/QUOTE]Contact her for what? What do you think will happen once you tell her you failed a test?

Most likely she will deny or pretend to be surprised and that's all, if she doesn't block you immediately.

They already know it when they've got a disease, you're not going to inform her of anything that she doesn't know already.

They don't care to spread it around, they just think that it's not a big deal as long as they can keep on "working".

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2484388]So now they all say yes to BBFS and it's up to 100% BBFS with Pattaya girls? ET, you should be hobbying in Pattaya![/QUOTE]Well Banana Boi, I just think you're jealous! I don't lie I just say truth. I hate condoms and I love very sexy girls, and I'm an addict of creampie. And yes I confirm it's very easy to fack bareback ladies in Pattaya. In soi 6 I'm used to go for many years, to different bars like Wicked, Jungle Bar, Avarice, Wraeth, Sex in the City, Where the angels play and many others. And each time girls let me fuck them bareback. They all know me good, just few of them say me NO to get more money. And when I propose them 500 or 1000 bahts more they 're OK to fuck without condom.

Just some girls don't want I come inside their pussy.

Welcome to the club T Chizzle. What you experienced is just the beginning. We all started down the post 80's HIV road a little bareback shy. Some more than others. It was a big deal for me the first couple of times I let it happen and I still remember my first time in AC. It seemed like a slow motion dream in which I was almost powerless to stop the girl from climbing on board. Ha Ha. But the rewards were immediately apparent and the follow-up negative test results supported my decisions (plural). I posted a trip report of it all back in the day. I called it "Barebacking in the PI" and I recall that I barebacked every girl, 25 Pinays, on that "cherry boy" first visit. It was a wild trip and a lot of fun. I am not quite that reckless nowadays and use some degree of discretion on who I bareback same as I do for going down on a girl. I recommend you do the same and employ discretion and your common sense. IE if the pussy looks "kosher" it is probably OK. The key is not all girls are bareback worthy, but many are. It is up to you. And as far a risk is concerned in our sport: celibacy / abstinence is the only risk free behavior as even monogamy is reliant on the integrity of your partner which can never be 100% unless you are married to a saint.

[QUOTE=Gilolo;2484238]Just avoid the girls of Nightwish Group because you can be sure I BBFS almost all their girls![/QUOTE]So that settles it then, you work for one of the competing bars to the Nightwish group.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2484388]...Are the rest of you guys buying this story?[/QUOTE]Just not feeding the trolls.

[QUOTE=Mens2;2484262]I still love you.

But why am I so irrational in spending money.

It's only Wednesday and:

- Monday. I did fuck a girl for 1. 5 K baht: 20 years old. No condom, anal, cum on her face, 2 rounds.

[/QUOTE]Where did you get this one? Rainbow 4?

[QUOTE=*****man;2484529]Where did you get this one? Rainbow 4?[/QUOTE]Can someone count cocktail; staff in Rainbow 4. I find it hard to believe the all Rainbow 2 staff can be accommodated in Rainbow 4.

Something's got to give.

[QUOTE=Paolo99;2484455]Contact her for what? What do you think will happen once you tell her you failed a test?

Most likely she will deny or pretend to be surprised and that's all, if she doesn't block you immediately.

They already know it when they've got a disease, you're not going to inform her of anything that she doesn't know already.

They don't care to spread it around, they just think that it's not a big deal as long as they can keep on "working".[/QUOTE]Thank you for your insight. Unfortunately, I can't control and predict others' reactions to information. However, I can control my own actions for being informative.

Let's assume I test positive for an STD in the future and send her a message about it. According to your wisdom of "they already know", then most definitely she will not be surprised. However, in the event that she didn't know, then she'll be informed and can take whatever actions she deems appropriate for her. Again, I can't control or predict others' reactions to information.

And if she turns out to have the character that belongs to your ominous and categorized as "they don't care" group, then the P4 P monger community in Bangkok would continue to be at risk. However, if her reaction to my information is contrary to your wisdom and belief of "they already know", then she would be surprised and she could possibly take appropriate precautions to improve her health.

When I contact her, what do I lose? I lose a couple minutes of my time; the time it takes to send a message.

What do I possibly gain if I contact her? In the case of your wisdom and if she happens to fall in line with your "they don't care" theory, I would gain nothing really. But if your theory happens to be off-base and you're wrong, then there would be some possible positive outcomes to the situation. I would be willing to sacrifice a couple minutes of my time to contact this girl if there's any potential for a positive reaction.

So for the potential greater good of the P4 P monger community in Bangkok, let's hope you're wrong.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;2484469]Welcome to the club T Chizzle. What you experienced is just the beginning. We all started down the post 80's HIV road a little bareback shy. Some more than others. It was a big deal for me the first couple of times I let it happen and I still remember my first time in AC. It seemed like a slow motion dream in which I was almost powerless to stop the girl from climbing on board. Ha Ha. But the rewards were immediately apparent and the follow-up negative test results supported my decisions (plural). I posted a trip report of it all back in the day. I called it "Barebacking in the PI" and I recall that I barebacked every girl, 25 Pinays, on that "cherry boy" first visit. It was a wild trip and a lot of fun. I am not quite that reckless nowadays and use some degree of discretion on who I bareback same as I do for going down on a girl. I recommend you do the same and employ discretion and your common sense. IE if the pussy looks "kosher" it is probably OK. The key is not all girls are bareback worthy, but many are. It is up to you. And as far a risk is concerned in our sport: celibacy / abstinence is the only risk free behavior as even monogamy is reliant on the integrity of your partner which can never be 100% unless you are married to a saint.[/QUOTE]I appreciate the advice.

I definitely don't plan on making this a recurring habit when it comes to P4 P, but I can't say that it will never happen again.

Just trying to keep the risk low; would be great if STDs didn't exist.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2484393]Maybe PM Gilolo. He says all the girls know him and almost all do BBFS with him. Maybe he'll even take you guys out and show you around for free![/QUOTE]Statistically, he needs to hit about 20 girls per day, to keep satisfied annually 60% of all girls on Soi 6, 7, 8 and LK + weekly regulars + the one taken away from boyfriends in their back.

So BB please leave him alone. As he is supporting by himself a large part of the local economy in these challenging times.

[QUOTE=Gilolo;2484467]Just some girls don't want I come inside their pussy.[/QUOTE]Which you do, without their consent after reassuring them to trust you, as you proudly reported, knowing perfectly that abortion is illegal in Thailand.

[QUOTE=DrBrianJones;2484598]Which you do, without their consent after reassuring them to trust you, as you proudly reported, knowing perfectly that abortion is illegal in Thailand.[/QUOTE]But easily obtainable and safe.

[QUOTE=DazeUp;2484503]So that settles it then, you work for one of the competing bars to the Nightwish group.[/QUOTE]Not at all! I love all the bars in Pattaya who have sexy working girls! I'll never work in a bar! I'm not interested in this business of bars or nightclubs and we don't earn money with a bar in Pattaya!

Hawaii is doing away with 14 day quarantine IF and only if you have neg. C19 test within 72 hours.

Come on Mr Prayut issan; buffaloes are going hungry. LOL.

[QUOTE=DrBrianJones;2484594]So BB please leave him alone. As he is supporting by himself a large part of the local economy in these challenging times.[/QUOTE]It's just too bad that none of what he says is true. I bet if I walked through LK Metro gogo bars more girls would know me than him and I haven't been there for over a year!

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2484679]It's just too bad that none of what he says is true. I bet if I walked through LK Metro gogo bars more girls would know me than him and I haven't been there for over a year![/QUOTE]Lolo I feel lives by the Oscar Wilde maxim there is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2484644]But easily obtainable and safe.[/QUOTE]I do not know where you got this information, and how long you have been living here, but anyone who had face this issue, or witness it through a Thai family member, would most probably tell you otherwise, explaining in part the high rates of teen pregnancy.

[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Thailand[/URL] =.

"The legal status of abortion in Thailand is governed by the Thai Criminal Code. Abortion is illegal except in certain in circumstances. By the letter, the law allows termination of a pregnancy by physicians only (1) when abortion is necessary due to the health of the pregnant woman, or (2) if the pregnancy was the result of rape. Abortions performed outside of these circumstances are punishable by up to three years in jail (as well as fines) for the woman and up to five years for the performer (up to seven years if it was performed against the will of the woman)."

Hi Mens2,

Very interesting story, would love to know where you found that gem. I am not into BBFS but anal, with COF and 2 round for 1500 thb, that's a deal! I already have this girl from TF, Chotika, 29 yo, whose great, hot and naughty. I give her 2 k for 2 shot with A+ and COF, but would love to meet a new one especially 20 yo.

[QUOTE=Mens2;2484262]I still love you.

But why am I so irrational in spending money.

It's only Wednesday and:

- Monday. I did fuck a girl for 1. 5 K baht: 20 years old. No condom, anal, cum on her face, 2 rounds.

- Tuesday. I did had a regular girl. Did go out eating and drinking with her. Paid a room close to the bar. And gave her 3 K for sex with a condom and a 3 minutes BJ.

- Wednesday. I was still horny, but missed a good BJ yesterday. Planned to go to Tokyo. But that seemed to be closed. So went again to 7-Heaven. Paid 1. 3 K for only an okay BJ.

Will I spend my money more wisely tomorrow? Questions![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=DrBrianJones;2484747]I do not know where you got this information, and how long you have been living here, but anyone who had face this issue, or witness it through a Thai family member, would most probably tell you otherwise, explaining in part the high rates of teen pregnancy.

[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Thailand[/URL] =.

"The legal status of abortion in Thailand is governed by the Thai Criminal Code. Abortion is illegal except in certain in circumstances. By the letter, the law allows termination of a pregnancy by physicians only (1) when abortion is necessary due to the health of the pregnant woman, or (2) if the pregnancy was the result of rape. Abortions performed outside of these circumstances are punishable by up to three years in jail (as well as fines) for the woman and up to five years for the performer (up to seven years if it was performed against the will of the woman)."[/QUOTE]I've lived here 21 years. Yes, it's illegal but like so many other things in Thailand there are places that provide in a safe clean environment. And the authorities don't shut them down.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2485210]I've lived here 21 years. Yes, it's illegal but like so many other things in Thailand there are places that provide in a safe clean environment. And the authorities don't shut them down.[/QUOTE]I wonder about this law like so many Thailand have made whether it truly is applied at all unless it hits the front page and embrasses them it is just another law to try to make themselves as if they are a first rate nation? I've known a number of girls working that have had abortions in a number of cases I've heard conversations as if it was normal to have one if one chooses as if there wasn't a law? It seems it is no more than a convienance to have one or not to serve their agenda.

I stopped in a few clubs and restaurants on Soi 11 last night, Saturday night, to see how the freelancer scene on that soi is faring these days. Hemingway's (restaurant and bar), Oskar's Bistro, Havana Social Bangkok, sometimes known as the Telephone Bar because of the secret phone number you enter in the old style pay telephone entrance to cause the club's door to pop open.

I can say all of those places were packed with girls and customers between 10PM and 1AM last night with the biggest drop off in the crowd happening around Midnight. Good looking ladies, too. Too many of the customers looked like they spend all day at the gym. lol wtf? Pretty much shoulder to shoulder, butt to butt with everyone dancing or really just moving around looking something like dancing. No masks in sight.

I zero'd in on a very sweet faced light skinned high water booty little lady with her girlfriend in Havana Social around 11:30PM and hung with them for a while. Took the sweet faced one back to my room at 1AM for a Long Time until about 10AM today. 2,500 baht. My number offer for LT and for what I require. There was no real negotiation. Would have probably been double that or close to it and maybe only for Short Time normally. BBFS+CIP later than I prefer last night and a very fine, super determined BBBJ+CIM this morning. Glad I have been getting those testosterone treatment shots lately. Busy weekend for me so far and it isn't over yet. lol.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2485210]I've lived here 21 years. Yes, it's illegal but like so many other things in Thailand there are places that provide in a safe clean environment. And the authorities don't shut them down.[/QUOTE]This is not my experience at all, but this is a case where I wish you are right.

My bigger point was however about this (censured), bragging here about coming inside the girls, after reassuring them he will absolutely not.

Or the way he likes to remove the condom in doggy before coming, when they cannot notice.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2485210]I've lived here 21 years. Yes, it's illegal but like so many other things in Thailand there are places that provide in a safe clean environment. And the authorities don't shut them down.[/QUOTE]Except that the Constitutional Court ruled in February that Section 301 of the criminal code (which prohibits abortion except where the pregnancy is the result of rape or where the health of the mother is at risk) is contrary to Sections 27 and 28 of the Constitution.

Of course this being Thailand the judgement gave 360 days before anything had to be done about it.

[QUOTE=DrBrianJones;2485349]This is not my experience at all, but this is a case where I wish you are right.

My bigger point was however about this (censured), bragging here about coming inside the girls, after reassuring them he will absolutely not.

Or the way he likes to remove the condom in doggy before coming, when they cannot notice.[/QUOTE]What he is doing is criminal.

[QUOTE=DrBrianJones;2485349]{Snip}

My bigger point was however about this (censured), bragging here about coming inside the girls, after reassuring them he will absolutely not.

Or the way he likes to remove the condom in doggy before coming, when they cannot notice.[/QUOTE]Don't collapse in a state of incredulity, but it is not unknown for posters on ISG to embellish, distort, exaggerate, misrepresent and downright make things up to suit their argument de jure. So, in fact he might be bullshitting. Just a thought.

A new bar on Sukhumvit Soi 8 just opened a few days ago called 8 Bar. Interesting timing for a new bar to open smack in the middle of the biggest tourist area. Then again, Today @ 8 bar on the other side of the same soi has been very busy in the evenings during this period.

This new beer bar is totally open air. Has a pool table. There is little evidence of working girls yet, which is one of the things keeping Today @ 8 busy, imo. Well, my date and I walked by last night and I wasn't sure if the 2 girls we passed from 8 Bar waving us in were just drink servers or also hookers.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2485331]I stopped in a few clubs and restaurants on Soi 11 last night, Saturday night, to see how the freelancer scene on that soi is faring these days. Hemingway's (restaurant and bar)[/QUOTE]Is this the new location of the Hemingway's that used to be near Soi 23, in the old Thai villa? That was a great bar and restaurant.

[QUOTE=Kerrstar;2485713]Is this the new location of the Hemingway's that used to be near Soi 23, in the old Thai villa? That was a great bar and restaurant.[/QUOTE]I don't know if I would say it was near Soi 23. But it was near Asok, which is not very far from Soi 23 if that is what you meant. It used to be located on Soi 14 just past and to the left of Suda Thai restaurant and that little side soi where the original Som's Haven was located.

It is mostly a restaurant but does get quite a drink and mingle crowd after dinner hours.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2485881]I don't know if I would say it was near Soi 23. But it was near Asok, which is not very far from Soi 23 if that is what you meant. It used to be located on Soi 14 just past and to the left of Suda Thai restaurant and that little side soi where the original Som's Haven was located.
[/QUOTE]Ok, yep that's the place. I got my soi's mixed up a bit and was thinking Soi 21, which I use as a reference for Asok station. I know it's not really correct but it helps me with my visualisation of the area. Soi 23 is where Bradmans is, which I usually go to, hence why it came to mind.

[QUOTE=Kerrstar;2485906]Ok, yep that's the place. I got my soi's mixed up a bit and was thinking Soi 21, which I use as a reference for Asok station. I know it's not really correct but it helps me with my visualisation of the area. Soi 23 is where Bradmans is, which I usually go to, hence why it came to mind.[/QUOTE]I will add I saw a hot little hostess from another restaurant I have frequented in the past at the Hemingway's Soi 11 sitting with a couple of other girl friends all in seemingly full Freelancer mode. I hadn't seen her at that other restaurant for a while and wondered what happened to her. Maybe taking up a new or more exclusive career I hope.

I generally don't like to hit on or engage with hostesses or servers at restaurants I know I will frequent with other dates, particularly non P4P dates, so I had kept our exchanges to small talk nicities. But now I know where to find her for a more fulfilling experience. Possibly.

At that point when we gave each other big smiles and googoo eyes from across the room, I was already working another girl and left Hemingway's with her and her friend for another bar.

[QUOTE=Stykler;2485582]Don't collapse in a state of incredulity, but it is not unknown for posters on ISG to embellish, distort, exaggerate, misrepresent and downright make things up to suit their argument de jure. So, in fact he might be bullshitting.........[/QUOTE]Much of the reports of unprotected sex in Thailand is just that.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2486076]Much of the reports of unprotected sex in Thailand is just that.[/QUOTE]Even though I'm a condom guy it's always interesting to see if a gal will do BBFS. I would say well over 50% will easily agree to it on the first encounter. And on the second and third encounters the percentage increases.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2486328]Even though I'm a condom guy it's always interesting to see if a gal will do BBFS. I would say well over 50% will easily agree to it on the first encounter. And on the second and third encounters the percentage increases.[/QUOTE]Even during normal times, before the current dire economic circumstances while the girls today are supposedly more quickly and easily saying Yes to what customers ask of them, my rate of success in getting an UPFRONT agreement to it was running around 60% with girls I'd rate well above a go-go bar 7.

So I have little doubt the "go with the flow and see what happens in the room" guys who made no effort to pop one on at crunch time and/or were prepared to offer a tip to go bareback were scoring an even higher rate of success in getting it with girls of at least that level of attractiveness. During normal times.

Of course, if a customer never mentions it or asks for it and reaches for a condom at crunch time, his percentage of getting bareback in Thailand is going to be tiny, low single digits probably. Including today.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2486328]Even though I'm a condom guy it's always interesting to see if a gal will do BBFS. I would say well over 50% will easily agree to it on the first encounter. And on the second and third encounters the percentage increases.[/QUOTE]Despite this supposed change in girls behavior during the pandemic I can tell you without fear of contradiction that there been no change. None of the girls I have met recently have insisted I fuck them bareback not a single one.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2486337]Even during normal times, before the current dire economic circumstances while the girls today are supposedly more quickly and easily saying Yes to what customers ask of them, my rate of success in getting an UPFRONT agreement to it was running around 60% with girls I'd rate well above a go-go bar 7.

So I have little doubt the "go with the flow and see what happens in the room" guys who made no effort to pop one on at crunch time and/or were prepared to offer a tip to go bareback were scoring an even higher rate of success in getting it with girls of at least that level of attractiveness. During normal times.

Of course, if a customer never mentions it or asks for it and reaches for a condom at crunch time, his percentage of getting bareback in Thailand is going to be tiny, low single digits probably. Including today.[/QUOTE]Exactly my findings over my time here. The majority will just let you go for it, especially if you get them well lathered up before hand.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2486363]Despite this supposed change in girls behavior during the pandemic I can tell you without fear of contradiction that there been no change. None of the girls I have met recently have insisted I fuck them bareback not a single one.[/QUOTE]You need to find girls who enjoy Sex with a 70 old man. They are out there. LOL.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2486363]Despite this supposed change in girls behavior during the pandemic I can tell you without fear of contradiction that there been no change. None of the girls I have met recently have insisted I fuck them bareback not a single one.[/QUOTE]Don't think I've ever said there's been a change. I found gals to be this way the entire two decades I've lived here. Insisted? Who said that?

[QUOTE=DannyDuck;2486474]You need to find girls who enjoy Sex with a 70 old man. They are out there. LOL.[/QUOTE]I have found many. I am 70. I am just wondering who these girls are fantasizing about when I am fucking them! Not a big deal to me if they are fantasizing. LOL.

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2486528]Don't think I've ever said there's been a change. I found gals to be this way the entire two decades I've lived here. Insisted? Who said that?[/QUOTE]Apologizes. I wasn't disputing anything you said. Shouldn't have used a reply to your post for what appears to be a failed attempt at irony on my part.

[QUOTE=Dg8787;2486531]I have found many. I am 70. I am just wondering who these girls are fantasizing about when I am fucking them! Not a big deal to me if they are fantasizing. LOL.[/QUOTE]They might be fantasizing about me. I'm only 67. LOL.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2486544]Apologizes. I wasn't disputing anything you said. Shouldn't have used a reply to your post for what appears to be a failed attempt at irony on my part.[/QUOTE]No problem. Thanks for the clarification.

[QUOTE=DannyDuck;2486474]You need to find girls who enjoy Sex with a 70 old man. They are out there. LOL.[/QUOTE]Agree. While on the one hand with the exception of an oddball handful with Elecltra complexes younger women naturally prefer the company of younger men yet when it comes to older guys in their late 60's and 70's who they are with for the money they will often admit to having a more satisfying sexual experience with these old codgers.

Anyone have experience with [URL]offdek.com[/URL]? Seems too good to be true? Thank you.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2486597] While on the one hand with the exception of an oddball handful with Elecltra complexes younger women naturally prefer the company of younger men yet when it comes to older guys in their late 60's and 70's who they are with for the money they will often admit to having a more satisfying sexual experience with these old codgers.[/QUOTE]Hey,

You are no longer invisible!

Of course, most young girls prefer the company of young men their own age and men up to 10 years older as the culture dictates. When I was in my 20's I was never asked to pay for sex with a hooker except in the USA. 555, and I refused their offers. But Argentinian, Brazilian, Caribbean, Chilean, Colombian, Costa Rican, and Venezuelan hookers all did me for free. And back then I could fuck all night without stopping. So yeah, I had a lot of fun travelling around SA back in the day on $5/ day.

Now I am in my 60's and I P4P in SE Asia. Money is not an issue. The hooker girls I am with now are benefiting from my years of sexual experience and wisdom. I can't fuck 6 times in a row anymore, ha ha, nevertheless I honestly think I am better at sex than I was at 20 or 25 because I now know how to turn a girl on and I am really into doing it. I am not saying the girls I fuck prefer me over someone their own age. That would be a very foolish notion, but I am saying that in the confines of my hotel room, one on one, just between us, a lot of my girls have orgasms, so it's a win win as far as everybody is concerned: they get paid good money plus they have a pretty good time in bed. But, don't tell their boyfriends. It is just between us.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;2486825]Hey,

You are no longer invisible!.[/QUOTE]Aw shucks.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;2486825], but I am saying that in the confines of my hotel room, one on one, just between us, a lot of my girls have orgasms, [/QUOTE]In Porn movies the girls even enjoy anal and have orgasms. I know of a girl in Germany that came five times during a session. Unfortunately not mine. Pffffffffffff.

[QUOTE=SpringChicken;2486801]Anyone have experience with [URL]offdek.com[/URL]? Seems too good to be true? Thank you.[/QUOTE]I don't have any experience with that particular website but those are totally normal prices for online freelancers in the Thai scene. This is why I've been saying go-go bar prices are just totally ridiculous, 4000+ baht an hour total cost for girls whose true value is about 1500.

[QUOTE=SpringChicken;2486801]Anyone have experience with [URL]offdek.com[/URL]? Seems too good to be true? Thank you.[/QUOTE]Either I am getting too cynical, Friday night in Pattaya has done my feeble brain in (it usually does) or a first time poster enquiring about a website never referenced on the forum before has some ulterior motive?

Answers on a postcard please to clickbait, care of feeble minded (on Friday nights) cynic, Pattaya, Chonburi, Thailand, 20150.

[blue][Racial Epithet(s) Deleted by Admin][/blue]

[b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]This report was edited in accordance with the Forum's Zero Tolerance policy regarding reports containing [u]racial epithets[/u].

Please be advised that Forum Members who succeed in having three or more of their reports deleted for personal attacks, racial epithets or other derogatory comments, will be banned under the Forum's Serial Antagonist Policy.[/blue]

[QUOTE==*****man;2487104]I don't have any experience with that particular website but those are totally normal prices for online freelancers in the Thai scene. This is why I've been saying go-go bar prices are just totally ridiculous, 4000+ baht an hour total cost for girls whose true value is about 1500.[/QUOTE]Thank you. It seems similar to another site that is mentioned few times in this thread called finfin. Vip.

I am suspicious of some of the reviews (both sites have this feature) but I messaged two providers and they were responsive with good English.

The funny thing is even 1500 THB is not cheap compared to Germany.

[QUOTE=SpringChicken;2486801]Anyone have experience with [URL]offdek.com[/URL]? Seems too good to be true? Thank you.[/QUOTE]From just a small sample of 3 girls on that site whose Line IDs I clicked on and got a reply:

- 500 baht surcharge for "non Thai customer," presumably meaning Caucasians, because "too big."

- 500 baht extra for outcall. Otherwise, in these cases at least, I was told I could go to a hotel just north of Chatuchak mrt/Mo Chit bts stations by taxi.

- Condom condom condom. "No condom no sex."

- No DFK. "Don't like."

- 500 baht surcharge for BBBJ+CIM. I know that contradicts what a couple of their profiles appear to be saying according to the clumsy translation of the Thai text, but that is what I was told by each of these three.

- 500 baht transfered in advance, no refund if you cancel or change an appointment. Apparently that is an Offdek rule and requirement since I think that is who gets the transfer. Not sure about that.

- In all three cases, the exchanges on those topics were initiated by the girl and seemed VERY hardcore hookerish and not at all like the image of otherwise innocent, unspoiled (by Farang customers) part time freelance Thai girls pressured by circumstances to trade sex for money some might imagine.

Again, it was only a small sampling of 3 girls. As always, Your Mileage May Vary.

Personally, I'd rather keep the 3,000 baht it would ultimately cost me to get a simple BBBJ+CIM in my room for a Short Time with any of those 20-22 year old hardened pros and take one of my sweet 22-23 year old regulars I met on ThaiCupid, ThaiFriendly or Tinder to dinner and get everything I want all night and the next morning for little more than 70% of that cost and most definitely 100% more fun and fulfilling pleasure. Or meet a new one on those sites or just around town for the same.

I am not knocking Offdek as a potentially rewarding source. I will probably try it with other girls again when I have some free time. Why not? There is no charge to browse and click around.

I have myself try to contact 2 girls. The first one read my message but didn't reply anything. The se ond one has been quite easy to chat with, English seems limited, but she did the effort (as I did to send simple sentences). She gave me the name of her hotel, confirmed BBBJ without mentioning any surcharge, and didn't seems to ask for any pre transfer. I didn't meet her yet, but might go very soon. I believe it depends a lot of the girl, and maybe also the location, maybe if they are in area empty of foreigner, they would less welcome us, for example the first one is in Rama 2 and second one that I chat with is in udom suk.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2487847]From just a small sample of 3 girls on that site whose Line IDs I clicked on and got a reply:

- 500 baht surcharge for "non Thai customer," presumably meaning Caucasians, because "too big."

- 500 baht extra for outcall. Otherwise, in these cases at least, I was told I could go to a hotel just north of Chatuchak mrt/Mo Chit bts stations by taxi.

- Condom condom condom. "No condom no sex."

- No DFK. "Don't like."

- 500 baht surcharge for BBBJ+CIM. I know that contradicts what a couple of their profiles appear to be saying according to the clumsy translation of the Thai text, but that is what I was told by each of these three.

- 500 baht transfered in advance, no refund if you cancel or change an appointment. Apparently that is an Offdek rule and requirement since I think that is who gets the transfer. Not sure about that..[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=MadMax33;2487878]I have myself try to contact 2 girls. The first one read my message but didn't reply anything. The se ond one has been quite easy to chat with, English seems limited, but she did the effort (as I did to send simple sentences). She gave me the name of her hotel, confirmed BBBJ without mentioning any surcharge, and didn't seems to ask for any pre transfer. I didn't meet her yet, but might go very soon. I believe it depends a lot of the girl, and maybe also the location, maybe if they are in area empty of foreigner, they would less welcome us, for example the first one is in Rama 2 and second one that I chat with is in udom suk.[/QUOTE]Looking forward to your followup report if you choose to post one.

Mine did not mention a surcharge for BBBJ, just for the CIM finish option. And, yes, it appears many profiles on the site mention an upfront transfer, but not all. I saw the required upfront transfer mentioned in a couple of customer reviews as well. Presumably from Thai customers.

Maybe that can be seen as a flag for potentially less than satisfactory service with Offdek as it can in other options; if the girl demands money upfront, buyer beware, you probably just paid for her to start focusing on something else, anything other than your pleasure.

Hey y'all,

Its been a few years since I've been back to Bangkok. Most recently AC & Pattaya.

For those of you that have been fortunate enough to continue this way of life. Have you found better results in gogos, online, thermae, soapies, etc?

With this new landscape due to Covid, it seems the results have been a bit scattered.

In previous trips, I've been accustomed to sticking to gogos & soapies for the most part. Specifically Rainbow Gogos & Bacarra.

But considering the current situation, I'm thinking I'd need to widen my playing field to fully take advantage.

Also, are going rates still 3 k ST, 5 k LT? Not incl. BF?

Idk Covid has really thrown me off my rhythm. That or its the whisky I'm getting shitfaced on right now LOL.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2488144]Looking forward to your followup report if you choose to post one.

Mine did not mention a surcharge for BBBJ, just for the CIM finish option. And, yes, it appears many profiles on the site mention an upfront transfer, but not all. I saw the required upfront transfer mentioned in a couple of customer reviews as well. Presumably from Thai customers.

Maybe that can be seen as a flag for potentially less than satisfactory service with Offdek as it can in other options; if the girl demands money upfront, buyer beware, you probably just paid for her to start focusing on something else, anything other than your pleasure.[/QUOTE]One good development is that a lot of girls are offering CIM or COF for a 300 baht surcharge. No need to get involved in a big negotiation because if they offer that it will be there in the advert. It's quite difficult to get a girl to agree to COF in most western-oriented places so it's good to have it upfront like that and the price seems fair.

Most of these women are milfs though posting heavily photoshopped or filtered pictures. I'm not sure they're much of an upgrade on what you can find in the oilies for a similar price. Here's a rare unphotoshopped body pic:

[URL]https://offdek.com/sideline/gm5MenNlk[/URL]

And this is a "Top Star" girl.

[QUOTE=*****man;2488239]I'm not sure they're much of an upgrade on what you can find in the oilies for a similar price. Here's a rare unphotoshopped body pic:

[URL]https://offdek.com/sideline/gm5MenNlk[/URL]

And this is a "Top Star" girl.[/QUOTE]My thoughts as well. I see some attractive girls on offdek and finfin, but nothing so amazing that I can't find it in my usual venues. Still I am glad these sites exist. The more sources the merrier and I intend to try both sites just for the experience and variety when I return to LOS. Call me "old school" if you want, but IMHO virtual internet sourcing will never be as good as reality sourcing ie finding a girl in a bar, massage parlor, or on the street. I would think that virtual sourcing is actually more time consuming and comes with a much higher risk rate of failure. The hit ratio can never be as good as physical reality based sourcing where there is the opportunity to talk to the girl, see her in her own environment, and appraise her attributes all without committing or in the bar situation for only the cost of drink or two. Besides, it is more fun to go out and find a girl compared to waiting around in an apartment or hotel room for a girl you have never met. It might see it a little differently if the internet girls were significantly better looking than the brick and mortar types, ha ha, but they are not, so what's the point?

[QUOTE=*****man;2488239]Most of these women are milfs though posting heavily photoshopped or filtered pictures. I'm not sure they're much of an upgrade on what you can find in the oilies for a similar price. Here's a rare unphotoshopped body pic:

[URL]https://offdek.com/sideline/gm5MenNlk[/URL]

And this is a "Top Star" girl.[/QUOTE]I agree. Also, although many of the poses and levels of undress are a bit sexier than what you generally see on ThaiFriendly, the overall look of most of the Offdek girls [I]as depicted[/I] in their photos and allowing for photo-shopping or doctoring of the photos, is not dramatically better than what can be found on ThaiFriendly or Tinder, imo. I would expect to see the same 5 years older and 4 kilos heavier girl than she appeared in her photos when the door swings open as we do with ThaiFriendly girls. Not necessarily a deal killer. But there is no reason for me to think the pics on Offdek are any more accurate than other sites.

Still, I am fine with things being spelled out upfront and appreciated that from the girls I have Line chatted with so far even though none of their terms were acceptable to me this time around. That is, IF I was actually chatting with each of those girls and not to some Offdek phone rep or mamasan making all the decisions for them. None of my three Top Stars would agree to video chat for a moment "just to say Hello." So anything is possible.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2488278]I agree. Also, although many of the poses and levels of undress are a bit sexier than what you generally see on ThaiFriendly, the overall look of most of the Offdek girls [I]as depicted[/I] in their photos and allowing for photo-shopping or doctoring of the photos, is not dramatically better than what can be found on ThaiFriendly or Tinder, imo. I would expect to see the same 5 years older and 4 kilos heavier girl than she appeared in her photos when the door swings open as we do with ThaiFriendly girls. Not necessarily a deal killer. But there is no reason for me to think the pics on Offdek are any more accurate than other sites.

Still, I am fine with things being spelled out upfront and appreciated that from the girls I have Line chatted with so far even though none of their terms were acceptable to me this time around. That is, IF I was actually chatting with each of those girls and not to some Offdek phone rep or mamasan making all the decisions for them. None of my three Top Stars would agree to video chat for a moment "just to say Hello." So anything is possible.[/QUOTE]Can someone explain,. Can do 69 if clean and odorless.

I've been following some Rainbow girls on their FB pages. Some utterly unrecognizable without their Mary kay cosmetics on.

[QUOTE=*****man;2488239]Most of these women are milfs though posting heavily photoshopped or filtered pictures. I'm not sure they're much of an upgrade on what you can find in the oilies for a similar price. [/QUOTE]

I can't find one single girl on the offdek website that looks like a regular Thai woman one sees in daily life. In addition to surgeries, they're so photoshopped that they appear to be from an entirely distinct alien race. As for Finfin, about 1-2 years ago, it used to feature normal-looking girls with regular pictures, but there are very few remaining.

Note that about half of the girls on these sites seem to be at a single place, Rachada Soi 17. Not a long soi by any means.

[QUOTE=DannyDuck;2488313]Can someone explain,. Can do 69 if clean and odorless.[/QUOTE]LOL. That has kind of been my rule on whether or not I will do 69 too. Well, more or less.

The new one for me is "Can not do fresh. Can not do bottom." I get that "bottom" probably means anal. But does "fresh" mean bareback? I can't remember ever seeing that word pop up in a translation for this subject matter. But, if so, I like it.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;2488341]I can't find one single girl on the offdek website that looks like a regular Thai woman one sees in daily life. In addition to surgeries, they're so photoshopped that they appear to be from an entirely distinct alien race. As for Finfin, about 1-2 years ago, it used to feature normal-looking girls with regular pictures, but there are very few remaining.

Note that about half of the girls on these sites seem to be at a single place, Rachada Soi 17. Not a long soi by any means.[/QUOTE]They rent hotel rooms by the day on soi 17 and work out of them.

[QUOTE=DannyDuck;2488321]I've been following some Rainbow girls on their FB pages. Some utterly unrecognizable without their Mary kay cosmetics on.[/QUOTE]Share some! Curious what they look like bare fare LOL.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2488391]LOL. That has kind of been my rule on whether or not I will do 69 too. Well, more or less.

The new one for me is "Can not do fresh. Can not do bottom." I get that "bottom" probably means anal. But does "fresh" mean bareback? I can't remember ever seeing that word pop up in a translation for this subject matter. But, if so, I like it.[/QUOTE]Not fresh, no rubber bag, no BBFS.

[QUOTE=AsheOw;2488403]Share some! Curious what they look like bare fare LOL.[/QUOTE]I've a nice regular working girls from Rainbow, she's about 23 and loves party and money! Usually she has her customers! But when she's alone without customer she go work in Rainbow. I met her in Rainbow the first time, and I booked her for ST. Now I've her Line, and she comes directly to me when I want fuck her! No need pay barfine anymore. I did it only 1 time.

She loves to drink, even little bit too much, but I've noticed when she's drunk, she takes lot of pleasure in sex! She loves to fuck when she's drunk! I think you can fuck her bareback without any problem! She never ask for condoms so you can really enjoy your time in her pussy.

[QUOTE=Jet0730;2488565]Not fresh, no rubber bag, no BBFS.[/QUOTE]Yes, "rubber bag" is one of the better translations I have seen for "condom" while "fresh" is a nice way of translating the concept of "bareback," I suppose.

And many customers will be relieved to know a "rubber bag" can be purchased at the Offdek hotel before spending their time and money with the girl in case they didn't bring their own.

[blue][Deleted by Admin][/blue]

[b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]This report was redacted or deleted to remove sections of the report that were [u]largely argumentative[/u]. Please read the Forum FAQ and the Forum's Posting Guidelines for more information. [i]Thank You![/i][/blue]

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2488706]Yes, "rubber bag" is one of the better translations I have seen for "condom" while "fresh" is a nice way of translating the concept of "bareback," I suppose.

And many customers will be relieved to know a "rubber bag" can be purchased at the Offdek hotel before spending their time and money with the girl in case they didn't bring their own.[/QUOTE]My favorite nice lady in BKK yesterday! What do you think?

[QUOTE=Gilolo;2489036]My favorite nice lady in BKK yesterday! What do you think?[/QUOTE]Not feeling it.

Come on man.

[QUOTE=Gilolo;2489036]My favorite nice lady in BKK yesterday! What do you think?[/QUOTE]Depends on what she provided in the room and for how much, the Value For Money ratio.

For me and only based on a photo and my assumption about how she really looks in person but which I know is often misleading about the true impression a girl makes in the flesh, she would be a borderline choice even if she agreed upfront to BBFS+CIP. I would lean closer to Yes if she also assured me she liked DFK, kept her pussy shaved or waxed as smooth as a billiard ball, would never dream of spitting instead of swallowing for me and 1,500 baht for LT including taxi is fine. That is, if I happened to have a free night for her, which is rare these days.

I just realized in conversation with a friend today that all but 1 girl I have been enthused enough about her overall VFM to repeat in the past 7 months have been girls I sessioned with PRE Covid and the shutdown.

Pickins and skill sets definitely declined in this area during the shutdowns and have not much improved during the struggling and spotty reopenings. I think as many if not more compromises have to be made by the remaining present customers as by the remaining present girls.

Thursday I have been to Jasmine massage today at 1.30 pm, and as recommended on another forum I asked for Kathy. I would say she is good looking to me, face is average, but body is very nice with nice curves. Went up, took my shower, told her not strong massage, and she started. She is very skillful, massage was great, very relaxing. She takes the time to go all over your body, giving some light Touch on the balls, ass. Then flipped and again nice Touch all over, with more attention to the balls. Then when she got me hard I started to grab her ass and her tits. I took out her tee shirt and bra, her tits are great, nice real medium size with beautiful nipples. Took out her pant and string, her ass is beautiful, nicely brown, round, perfectly shaved tight pussy. She started to be wet, putting 2 finger was not that easy, she is quite tight. Took the time to give a good fingering and a DATY, the pussy is sweet, smell good, and juicy. She cums while licking her, her body was shacking she was grabbing my head strongly, I loved it. Tried a finger in her ass and she didn't say no, put my thumb in and she started rubbing her pussy. I was excited as hell, and fucked her, she was enjoying it, then I tried to go in her ass. Not so easy but managed it, she didn't refuse me to alternate pussy to ass, room and bed are small so couldn't do so much position but in doggy her ass looked amazing that I couldn't contain myself anymore. Put her on her knee and cum it all on her mouth. She had a dirty look to me, then lick to get the last drop, aaaand. Swallow it after playing it a bit with her tongue. I fall in love with Kathy! Gave her first 1000 thb but her look was not so happy and as I had only 500 or 1000 note, I gave her the 500 more. She was happy, laughed and ask "why not 2000?" Which I told her 2000 would be for 2 shots. Would I meet her again, sure yes, and hopefully would bring her home that time to have a full experience without being discreet bc of her boss. Amazing girl, she is stunning and naughty!

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2489205]Depends on what she provided in the room and for how much, the Value For Money ratio.

For me and only based on a photo and my assumption about how she really looks in person but which I know is often misleading about the true impression a girl makes in the flesh, she would be a borderline choice even if she agreed upfront to BBFS+CIP. I would lean closer to Yes if she also assured me she liked DFK, kept her pussy shaved or waxed as smooth as a billiard ball, would never dream of spitting instead of swallowing for me and 1,500 baht for LT including taxi is fine. That is, if I happened to have a free night for her, which is rare these days.

I just realized in conversation with a friend today that all but 1 girl I have been enthused enough about her overall VFM to repeat in the past 7 months have been girls I sessioned with PRE Covid and the shutdown.

Pickins and skill sets definitely declined in this area during the shutdowns and have not much improved during the struggling and spotty reopenings. I think as many if not more compromises have to be made by the remaining present customers as by the remaining present girls.[/QUOTE]Well she was perfect with me! She was already drunk, and she gave very good DFK! She loves that too! And I think with the alcohol, she feels everything! I start to fingering her in the bar and she likes this! Then she asked me if I want fuck her! I said yes! She asked me 3000 for ST but I negotiate to 2000 and she was OK. We took shower together and she started to make me a nice blowjob in shower which was really good. Then we went on the best, I licked her pussy during about 20 good minutes. She loves that! I was fucking horny and then I put my dick in her pussy. And when I was already fucking her she asks me if I can put a condom! I told her that I didn't have any condom and that I really would like fuck her without! Ans she let me do. She just asked to not come inside her pussy but I didn't listen her!

I creampie her, and I told her sorry. She wasn't angry, and finally I gave her 3000 instead of 2000.

She was happy.

[QUOTE=Gilolo;2489036]My favorite nice lady in BKK yesterday! What do you think?[/QUOTE]Looks pretty good to me. Natural or fake boobs?

[QUOTE=Gilolo;2489036]My favorite nice lady in BKK yesterday! What do you think?[/QUOTE]Why do you care what others think of the girls you like? 1st, one photo is not always representative of the real girl. 2nd, tastes vary enormously. 3rd, other factors like personality, sexual performance and your personal vibe with the girl make up a substantial portion of your subjective opinion on any particular girl. Thus all that matters is that you like her and think she is hot.

Proof of all this is my opinion of your girl based solely on the one photo. I don't see anything special. I would rate her a 5 at best.

[QUOTE=Gilolo;2489036]My favorite nice lady in BKK yesterday! What do you think?[/QUOTE]Given you asked for thoughts. I think she's not in Bangkok.

I know you are not.

The rest is just so much, now what's the word I am looking for?

Be careful what you ask for. You may get it.

[blue][Deleted by Admin][/blue]

[b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]This report was deleted because it contributed nothing of value and in fact constituted a complete waste of bandwidth.

The purpose of this Forum is to provide for the exchange if information between men on the subject of finding women for sex. Let's stick to the subject.[/blue]

[QUOTE=Gilolo;2489266]She just asked to not come inside her pussy but I didn't listen her.[/QUOTE]Always the gentleman.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;2489321]Why do you care what others think of the girls you like? 1st, one photo is not always representative of the real girl. 2nd, tastes vary enormously. 3rd, other factors like personality, sexual performance and your personal vibe with the girl make up a substantial portion of your subjective opinion on any particular girl. Thus all that matters is that you like her and think she is hot.

Proof of all this is my opinion of your girl based solely on the one photo. I don't see anything special. I would rate her a 5 at best.[/QUOTE]Given that you think at best she is a 5. Methinks he grossly overpaid.

[QUOTE=DannyDuck;2489667]Given that you think at best she is a 5. Methinks he grossly overpaid.[/QUOTE]I agree, but it is his money. He is free to do with it anything he wants.

[QUOTE=Gilolo;2489036]My favorite nice lady in BKK yesterday! What do you think?[/QUOTE]She's a cutie and would take her any day.

[QUOTE=AlexDeuce;2489823]She's a cutie and would take her any day.[/QUOTE]Yeah, she appears in the photo to be in her 20's, fit and not fat, nothing objectionable about her face. If that proved to be true in real life and if the conditions and her upfront agreements were right and especially if she had a cute way about her in person, I would take her on one of my free nights and not regret it for a minute.

Anybody who wants to see a "5 at best" or how about a 2 at best, check out the 40-45 year old grandmas from Khon Kaen who click Interested on my TC and TF profile day and night or the vast majority of street girls and massage shop women offering Happy Endings in front of their shops around town that apparently SOMEBODY is keeping in the game by paying to get one from them sometimes.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2489886]Anybody who wants to see a "5 at best" or how about a 2 at best, check out the 40-45 year old grandmas from Khon Kaen who click Interested on my TC and TF profile day and night or the vast majority of street girls and massage shop women offering Happy Endings in front of their shops around town that apparently SOMEBODY is keeping in the game by paying to get one from them sometimes.[/QUOTE]There are many 5 at best girls in the P4 P arena. The majority of girls in Go Go's are 5 at best, the majority of girls in oilies are 5 at best, and the majority of Sukhumvit Soi 4 SW's are 5 at best. There are a lot of girls to choose from if 5 star at best is your minimum requirement for looks and many might be great performers. You never know. My MO: I will sit down and order a drink in a Go Go or bar if I spot just 2 or 3 attractive, potential barfine girls that I consider 6 star or better, ie attractive, if not I keep on searching which is no big deal because I enjoy the hunt.

Now if you want to talk about unfuckable girls, let's talk about Chinatown SW's. Ooh Wee! 2 star at best. Man, they are a sorry lot. I believe 500 bhat is their going price. Then there are the Beach Road SW's & Sukhumvit SW's. Most are pretty unfuckable if you ask me. 4 star at best and a1000 bhat (which is negotiable) is their ask. But I occasionally spot a sexy one. Probably 1 in 500 is doable. However, the sexy ones go fast as you can imagine. Ha Ha.

[QUOTE=MadMax33;2489210]I was excited as hell, and fucked her, she was enjoying it, then I tried to go in her ass. Not so easy but managed it, she didn't refuse me to alternate pussy to ass, room and bed are small so couldn't do so much position but in doggy her ass looked amazing that I couldn't contain myself anymore. Put her on her knee and cum it all on her mouth. She had a dirty look to me, then lick to get the last drop, aaaand. Swallow it after playing it a bit with her tongue. I fall in love with Kathy! Gave her first 1000 thb but her look was not so happy and as I had only 500 or 1000 note, I gave her the 500 more. She was happy, laughed and ask "why not 2000?" Which I told her 2000 would be for 2 shots. Would I meet her again, sure yes, and hopefully would bring her home that time to have a full experience without being discreet bc of her boss. Amazing girl, she is stunning and naughty![/QUOTE]So it's one of the shops where the girls give a massage with their clothes on behind a curtain?

And you fucked her ass and she swallowed you behind the curtain?

[QUOTE=Paolo99;2490015]So it's one of the shops where the girls give a massage with their clothes on behind a curtain?

And you fucked her ass and she swallowed you behind the curtain?[/QUOTE]Switching between the vagina and ass do you change condoms with every Switch. LOL.

Was not behind a curtain but room are not well isolated and as its not a kind of Addict massage or Mango massage, the girl are not suppose to fuck.

[QUOTE=Paolo99;2490015]So it's one of the shops where the girls give a massage with their clothes on behind a curtain?

And you fucked her ass and she swallowed you behind the curtain?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Goatscrot;2488393]They rent hotel rooms by the day on soi 17 and work out of them.[/QUOTE]Ratchada 17 hotels are typical incall setups. Bookers have a line "master" account. Girls may have their own line accounts. Bookers may send you links to girls they represent if you request. Don't think this is hidden really. Lie about age, bait and switch, photoshop, plastic surgery. It's all part of the industry.

It's no different than how Korean and Chinese run things in LOS Angeles. No different than any big city really.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2479358]For younger girls with decent bodies Butterflies is probably the overall best in Nana Plaza right now if for no other reason than the number of girls that fit that criteria.

However, if you aren't as concerned about younger girls and want better than decent bodies and probably better faces, Billboard would generally beat Butterflies on those counts.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=TChizzle;2482728]
Now for Nana, the only gogos worth visiting right now and if I was forced to only choose one gogo to visit, I would visit:

Based on attractive lineups, I would have to go with Rainbow 4 (for the more natural-looking girls).

Based on groping sessions, I would go with Rainbow 5 (for the cosmetic enhancements).

Based on just chilling without being constantly harassed by girls / mamasans, I would go with Butterflies (best open layout for sitting and viewing).

Based on all-around gogo experience, you can't go wrong with Billboard (all-around good).[/QUOTE]On the basis of these and other recommendations I decided to check out Billboard and Butterflies tonight. I walked out of Billboard within 10 seconds of walking in. Why? Because the music is played at ear-splitting volume. So I went to Butterflies and there's exactly the same problem. It's left me a bit perplexed. Firstly, why is nobody else mentioning this? I mean, in Butterflies there were about 5 customers and one of them had his fingers in his ears, one of them I saw complaining about the volume plus me so that's at least 60% who are not happy with it. Does it not bother the posters here who recommended these bars? Secondly, why do the managers do this? I've read on Stickman that these bars have hands-on American managers. I know they're paying him to big them up but I don't understand how they could be so out of touch with their customers, who are mostly middle-aged Western expats at the moment. Why would they think that deafening music would appeal to them? The main purpose of these bars is to facilitate interaction between customers and girls but that's not possible if people can't hear each other talking. It's a shame because there were a few nice girls in Butterflies who I would have liked to buy lady drinks for and maybe barfined but I had to leave after 15 minutes because my ears were starting to physically hurt. So sod these 2 places, I'm never going in them again.

Not much talent in Rainbow 4. Some of the girls were topless and none had a decent pair of tits. They were mostly bad silicone jobs and the others were too small. There was a fair number of MILFS among them as well. Maybe just a couple of girls there I would consider barfining. I left before finishing my drink because another customer was smoking. I thought the whole of Nana was no smoking now but every bar I went in was allowing smoking. I don't really understand the thinking behind this either because for every customer you win by allowing smoking you're probably going to lose two non-smokers. At least the music was played at a reasonable volume.

Twisters BKK had a nice lineup, music at a reasonable volume and nobody smoking so I was enjoying myself until the same idiots who had been smoking in Rainbow 4 walked in and immediately lit up. WTF? The world had this debate years ago and every country including Thailand agreed to ban smoking indoors so why are the bars in Nana allowing it?

[QUOTE=*****man;2492638]On the basis of these and other recommendations I decided to check out Billboard and Butterflies tonight. I walked out of Billboard within 10 seconds of walking in. Why? Because the music is played at ear-splitting volume. So I went to Butterflies and there's exactly the same problem. It's left me a bit perplexed. Firstly, why is nobody else mentioning this? I mean, in Butterflies there were about 5 customers and one of them had his fingers in his ears, one of them I saw complaining about the volume plus me so that's at least 60% who are not happy with it. Does it not bother the posters here who recommended these bars? Secondly, why do the managers do this? I've read on Stickman that these bars have hands-on American managers. I know they're paying him to big them up but I don't understand how they could be so out of touch with their customers, who are mostly middle-aged Western expats at the moment. Why would they think that deafening music would appeal to them? The main purpose of these bars is to facilitate interaction between customers and girls but that's not possible if people can't hear each other talking. It's a shame because there were a few nice girls in Butterflies who I would have liked to buy lady drinks for and maybe barfined but I had to leave after 15 minutes because my ears were starting to physically hurt. So sod these 2 places, I'm never going in them again.

Not much talent in Rainbow 4. Some of the girls were topless and none had a decent pair of tits. They were mostly bad silicone jobs and the others were too small. There was a fair number of MILFS among them as well. Maybe just a couple of girls there I would consider barfining. I left before finishing my drink because another customer was smoking. I thought the whole of Nana was no smoking now but every bar I went in was allowing smoking. I don't really understand the thinking behind this either because for every customer you win by allowing smoking you're probably going to lose two non-smokers. At least the music was played at a reasonable volume.[/QUOTE]You not understand Thai business. Music is played for Thai DJ's. They don't care what you think.

I wear ear protection if that helps. Occasionally you see a staff member with ear plugs too.

[QUOTE=Gilolo;2489036]My favorite nice lady in BKK yesterday! What do you think?[/QUOTE]Nice! How did you meet that girl? Can you PM her contact info?

Thanks!

[blue]===============================================

Greetings,

It appears from your post that you don't quite understand the Forum's Private Message service.

To use the Forum's Private Message service, both you and the Forum Member you are trying to contact must be either a subscriber or a Senior Member.

For more information, please read: http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/ISG_Payments.php

Admin[/blue]

[QUOTE=DannyDuck;2492716]You not understand Thai business. Music is played for Thai DJ's. They don't care what you think.

I wear ear protection if that helps. Occasionally you see a staff member with ear plugs too.[/QUOTE]I get the noise problem not just in go go's but in lots of bars also. It's actually a health and safety issue for those working in these places and as mentioned it's not going to entice in the over 50 target demographic.

Maybe it's just an age thing, I. E. If it's too loud you're too old.

[QUOTE=DannyDuck;2492716]You not understand Thai business. Music is played for Thai DJ's. They don't care what you think.

I wear ear protection if that helps. Occasionally you see a staff member with ear plugs too.[/QUOTE]The bars that forbid you to use your smartphone with Google Translate on it and crank the music volume up too high, like Crazy House, only want you to mistake a LD request of "tequila and coke" for some weird Thai cocktail and not for the 2 LDs it actually is.

Too loud music is the norm in Thailand where P4P girls are available. I remember sitting in Beer Garden Soi 7 many times in the past when the music was so loud two men sitting next to each other had to shout to be heard. No way could anyone ask a hooker a question and hear her reply. And there isn't even a stage, a show or dancing in Beer Garden Soi 7! It is just a place to eat, drink and TALK to someone next to you to see if she is the right choice for fucking and sucking.

[QUOTE=*****man;2492638]On the basis of these and other recommendations I decided to check out Billboard and Butterflies tonight. I walked out of Billboard within 10 seconds of walking in. Why? Because the music is played at ear-splitting volume. So I went to Butterflies and there's exactly the same problem. It's left me a bit perplexed. Firstly, why is nobody else mentioning this? I mean, in Butterflies there were about 5 customers and one of them had his fingers in his ears, one of them I saw complaining about the volume plus me so that's at least 60% who are not happy with it. Does it not bother the posters here who recommended these bars? Secondly, why do the managers do this? I've read on Stickman that these bars have hands-on American managers. I know they're paying him to big them up but I don't understand how they could be so out of touch with their customers, who are mostly middle-aged Western expats at the moment. Why would they think that deafening music would appeal to them? The main purpose of these bars is to facilitate interaction between customers and girls but that's not possible if people can't hear each other talking. It's a shame because there were a few nice girls in Butterflies who I would have liked to buy lady drinks for and maybe barfined but I had to leave after 15 minutes because my ears were starting to physically hurt. So sod these 2 places, I'm never going in them again.[/QUOTE]I've been in strip clubs around the world where smoking indoors is illegal for customers, and they all have smoking.

You ask why? Why not, its a brothel.

They are breaking many laws, I'm guessing smoking is their smallest offense.

Tax evasion, money laundering, drugs, etc etc etc etc.

When inspectors come in, you might want people smoking.

Something minor for them to give a citation for, take their nice kickback and leave.

[QUOTE=DannyDuck;2490176]Switching between the vagina and ass do you change condoms with every Switch. LOL.[/QUOTE]How do you change condoms when you're not using one?

If you want to clean it when you switch just stick it in her mouth for a nice ATM, that's what I do.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2492786]The bars that forbid you to use your smartphone with Google Translate on it and crank the music volume up too high, like Crazy House, only want you to mistake a LD request of "tequila and coke" for some weird Thai cocktail and not for the 2 LDs it actually is.[/QUOTE]Crazy House in Bangkok is the only bar out of 1000's of bar visits where I have had a stunt like this pulled on me. Unlucky for the girl because she was the only girl I ever saw in Crazy House that was decent enough to barfine.

[QUOTE=*****man;2492638]On the basis of these and other recommendations I decided to check out Billboard and Butterflies tonight. I walked out of Billboard within 10 seconds of walking in. Why? Because the music is played at ear-splitting volume. So I went to Butterflies and there's exactly the same problem. It's left me a bit perplexed. Firstly, why is nobody else mentioning this?[/QUOTE]I personally enjoy loud music as long as the dance music and sound system are good. Some gogo bars like Maxim in Pattaya have incredible sound and acoustics. For me the girls get really close to you to talk and that's when you just pull them to you and DFK them. If they squirm then no LD. Simple. Works for me.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2492819]
I personally enjoy loud music as long as the dance music and sound system are good. Some gogo bars like Maxim in Pattaya have incredible sound and acoustics. For me the girls get really close to you to talk and that's when you just pull them to you and DFK them. If they squirm then no LD. Simple. Works for me.[/QUOTE]It doesn't bother you that each time you go to a bar like that you get a little bit deafer? And since when has anyone needed an excuse to get close to and DFK a gogo girl?

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2492786]The bars that forbid you to use your smartphone with Google Translate on it and crank the music volume up too high, like Crazy House, only want you to mistake a LD request of "tequila and coke" for some weird Thai cocktail and not for the 2 LDs it actually is.

Too loud music is the norm in Thailand where P4P girls are available. I remember sitting in Beer Garden Soi 7 many times in the past when the music was so loud two men sitting next to each other had to shout to be heard. No way could anyone ask a hooker a question and hear her reply. And there isn't even a stage, a show or dancing in Beer Garden Soi 7! It is just a place to eat, drink and TALK to someone next to you to see if she is the right choice for fucking and sucking.[/QUOTE]I agree that most of the bars play music too loud but after two decades of visiting gogos (admittedly much less in the past few years) last night in Billboard and Butterflies was the only time I've actually felt staying in the bar would damage my hearing. If the managers want to make themselves deaf and drive away customers then that's their business. I can understand it in nightclubs where there's a lot of drug taking and dancing and loud music would intensify that but I just can't get my head around it in a go-go bar.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2492819]Crazy House in Bangkok is the only bar out of 1000's of bar visits where I have had a stunt like this pulled on me. Unlucky for the girl because she was the only girl I ever saw in Crazy House that was decent enough to barfine.
.. [/QUOTE]It is still alive and well in Crazy House and some other Bkk go-go bars.

Last week I popped into Crazy House and saw a girl I'd bought one LD for in Doll House Soi Cowboy ages ago but never took her. She must be mid 30's now and 5 kilos heavier with a butt pushing the envelope toward too big for my interest. But she still has great feeling silky smooth skin.

For the hell of it and to test this "the go-go girls are giving more now" theory I'd read about, I called her down for an LD. She tried to pull the "tequila and coke" scam on me. LOL. She also said absolutely No to Real Sex OR BBBJ+CIM with me with 2,500 baht to her sort of hanging in the air.

So much for that "more" theory and any notion of supposed desperation on the scene during these times. There was no other customer in the place at 9pm.

Then a couple of days later a girl in Rainbow 4 in Nana Plaza, lately merged with the crew from Rainbow 2 due to lack of customers, tried to pull the same "tequila and coke" scam on me. She was younger and better looking than the chubby older lady in Crazy House and the in bar chemistry could not have been sweeter after I shook her off the 2 LD scam. But she was another No to Real Sex OR BBBJ+CIM. And this time as much as 3,000 baht to her was sort of hanging in the air.

I do wonder what this "more" from go-go girls is that other punters and reports on sites like Stickman Bangkok are claiming the girls are now delivering during this dire economic downturn. 500-1000 baht discounts I can see happening and I am sure would have happened in those 2 cases if I had been interested in only the most dreary basic standard Thai P4P fare as it was in normal times. But, in my experience, "more" is not exactly flowing any more freely these days than during normal times.

YMMV.

[QUOTE=DannyDuck;2492716]You not understand Thai business. Music is played for Thai DJ's. They don't care what you think.

I wear ear protection if that helps. Occasionally you see a staff member with ear plugs too.[/QUOTE]Do they really need a DJ with 5 customers in the bar? Why not just create a playlist on a laptop, connect that to the speakers and play them at a reasonable volume? I think the customers would actually appreciate the change and it would save a lot of money. But I remember reading once I think on Stickman that a DJ refused to turn down the music so the bar manager in the Nana go-go bar threatened to sack him to which the DJ replied that if he tried that he'd have the manager shot.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2492775]I get the noise problem not just in go go's but in lots of bars also. It's actually a health and safety issue for those working in these places and as mentioned it's not going to entice in the over 50 target demographic.

Maybe it's just an age thing, I. E. If it's too loud you're too old.[/QUOTE]Loud music is the #1 reason that I don't spend more money in these bars. My normal process is to walk in, survey the situation, and walk out if the music is too loud or if there are no girls of interest. When I find a place that is acceptable, I'll order a drink. Will buy 1 it 2 lady drinks until I find what I want to bar fine. I almost never buy myself another drink. These places are too loud.

[QUOTE=*****man;2492856]Do they really need a DJ with 5 customers in the bar? [/QUOTE]Most DJ's in bars also act as an extra security guard in case trouble starts. Some may be 'connected' in some way <insert whatever you think the DJ may be connected to>.

[QUOTE=*****man;2492835]It doesn't bother you that each time you go to a bar like that you get a little bit deafer?[/QUOTE]Gogo bars aren't even loud compared to the nightclubs I used to go to every night in my 20's and early 30's. You know the ones where your heart feels like it's coming out of your chest! I loved it. The only monger club I have been to where music is too loud is FKK Mondial in Germany. Now that is some crazy loud in certain parts of the club. So loud they have free earplugs at the front door. You want loud in Thailand go to a real Thai disco. The girl is screaming at the top of her lungs right in to my ear and I can't hear sh1 t. The music is great though.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2492853]She also said absolutely No to Real Sex OR BBBJ+CIM with me with 2,500 baht to her sort of hanging in the air.

So much for that "more" theory and any notion of supposed desperation on the scene during these times.

<snip>

But she was another No to Real Sex OR BBBJ+CIM. And this time as much as 3,000 baht to her was sort of hanging in the air.[/QUOTE]

You're not offering to 'pay more' for BBFS like another member has told us to do numerous times already. We'll never learn I guess.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2493121]...
You're not offering to 'pay more' for BBFS like another member has told us to do numerous times already. We'll never learn I guess.[/QUOTE]haha. I think between those two situations the 2,500 and 3,000 baht sort of hanging in the air was 500-1,000 more than what a moderate negotiation would have resulted in with those girls these days if an upfront agreement for BBFS had not been part of the deal.

Maybe I should mention that in the time it took me to type out that brief report yesterday I had to field 4 Line messages from younger cuter new dating site girls offering to come over for BBFS+CIP for less baht than those go-go girls' fees that were sort of hanging in the air, no barfine and no LDs. And then I had to choose the most interesting one and turn down or postpone the others.

It's just that I also like the go-go bar experience and choose to partake in it as well for variety and the fun of it.

I still get takers for my requirements from go-go bar girls in Nana Plaza and Soi Cowboy at reasonable going rates. Not just from the dancers but also from servers if they are cute and charming enough to inspire me to go that way.

But I have not noticed it happening for me in greater percentages or the results in the room turning out to be better or in any way "more" now during this severe economic downturn than during normal times. If anything, it might be just a tad worse on those counts these days than during normal times.

In Nana gogos such as rainbow 4,random, twister etc since covid I've been getting girls for that 2kST 4 kLT range. They usually start at 3k ST or 5 kLT but quickly go down in price. I also always ask BBFS up front and I'd say 90% or so agree without batting a eye some are hesitant and I just tell them I cum outside seems to do the trick. I haven't barfined from butterflies or billboard as for whatever reason the hot girls at these gogos feel they are worth 3k ST 6 kLT and / or don't want to go BB.

[QUOTE=GinAndTonic555;2493149]In Nana gogos such as rainbow 4,random, twister etc since covid I've been getting girls for that 2kST 4 kLT range. They usually start at 3k ST or 5 kLT but quickly go down in price. I also always ask BBFS up front and I'd say 90% or so agree without batting a eye some are hesitant and I just tell them I cum outside seems to do the trick. I haven't barfined from butterflies or billboard as for whatever reason the hot girls at these gogos feel they are worth 3k ST 6 kLT and / or don't want to go BB.[/QUOTE]That's another good reason to avoid Butterflies and Billboard. I saw two or three girls worth 2 k for short time in Butterflies but none worth 3 k + 700 bar fine + 250? Lady drink + tinnitus. I think these two bars are just a classic case of people swallowing marketing hype. I also saw two or three equally nice girls in Twister BKK and will check out this Random place.

[QUOTE=*****man;2493272]That's another good reason to avoid Butterflies and Billboard. I saw two or three girls worth 2 k for short time in Butterflies but none worth 3 k + 700 bar fine + 250? Lady drink + tinnitus. I think these two bars are just a classic case of people swallowing marketing hype. I also saw two or three equally nice girls in Twister BKK and will check out this Random place.[/QUOTE]I always hear people on other forums say how billboard is the best gogo in BKK. I rarely see any youthful girls there. It's mostly the same girls now for many years. Then they expect really expensive prices. I think the owner of these gogos has done a really good job hyping his product online through forums and stickmans website to make people believe he has a superior product to other places.

Butterflies I think has a better lineup then billboard I still think it can't compete with Rainbow4,5 and twister even. Random has some nice talent but it is a smaller gogo but IME you can always find a couple real hot girls in there.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2492853]For the hell of it and to test this "the go-go girls are giving more now" theory I'd read about, I called her down for an LD. She tried to pull the "tequila and coke" scam on me. LOL. She also said absolutely No to Real Sex OR BBBJ+CIM with me with 2,500 baht to her sort of hanging in the air.[/QUOTE]Is it some way of charging you for two drinks when they only get one?

[QUOTE=OneEyedMan;2493384]Is it some way of charging you for two drinks when they only get one?[/QUOTE]No, they will get 2 drinks and you will be charged for 2 drinks. The scam comes in when the girl either asks you to "buy me drink?" or you offer to buy her a drink and she says, "tequila and coke, ok?" in a way that sounds like it is a single drink, a cocktail, some weird alternative to rum and coke or Jack and coke.

You say "Ok" to whatever this strange cocktail is she likes and you have just given her permission to get two Ladydrinks in one go; a tequila shot and a small glass of coke, about 175 baht each in some bars, if not more since they are Ladyrinks for her.

[QUOTE=GinAndTonic555;2493149]In Nana gogos such as rainbow 4,random, twister etc since covid I've been getting girls for that 2kST 4 kLT range. They usually start at 3k ST or 5 kLT but quickly go down in price. I also always ask BBFS up front and I'd say 90% or so agree without batting a eye some are hesitant and I just tell them I cum outside seems to do the trick. I haven't barfined from butterflies or billboard as for whatever reason the hot girls at these gogos feel they are worth 3k ST 6 kLT and / or don't want to go BB.[/QUOTE]I applaud your effort to provide reasonable transparency, attempt no intimidation or manipulation, no game where you tie up the girl's time out of the bar in order to corner her into agreeing to something that an hour or more later she might feel a No response to could get her put out with less or no money and admirable consideration for her feelings on the issue of BBFS by asking for it upfront.

And your doing so also contributes to improving the Thai P4P scene all around, imo.

Thank you for that.

[QUOTE==*****man;2492638]On the basis of these and other recommendations...[/QUOTE]It's unfortunate that your experience wasn't as expected.

I would agree that the music can be loud. Every time I go, I'm usually forced to always have to position my head closer to the girl to sometimes hear what is being said during conversations.

I do still stand by my recommendation that Nana is the place to go for gogos nowadays. And I personally think Rainbow 4 has the best girl lineup overall. Of course, attractive qualities are subjective so what may be attractive for me might not be the same for the next guy. In addition, I would say that the weekends (Fri / Sat) are your best times to see optimal lineups as a lot of the top-tier girls don't show up during the weekdays; especially Mon / Tues / Wed. I went to Rainbow 4 one time on a Tuesday and was totally surprised and disappointed (like you) by the lineup. But as I figured it out, the optimal lineups are on the weekends. If the time you went was on a weekday, then maybe give it another try on the weekend (Fri / Sat).

Of course, an attractive lineup probably wouldn't matter for you if you're still not able to get past the loud gogo music atmosphere.

In any case, good luck! And happy hunting!

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2493412]I applaud your effort to provide reasonable transparency, attempt no intimidation or manipulation, no game where you tie up the girl's time out of the bar in order to corner her into agreeing to something that an hour or more later she might feel a No response to could get her put out with less or no money and admirable consideration for her feelings on the issue of BBFS by asking for it upfront.

And your doing so also contributes to improving the Thai P4P scene all around, imo.

Thank you for that.[/QUOTE]I think today, BBFS becomes a standard thing everywhere in Bangkok pattaya or phuket. Girls don't care anymore. Most of the men don't use condoms anymore and girls even don't ask now.

Just girls ask to come outside pussy. Some men respect, some don't!

For what its worth, at least pre-covid, I have to agree Rainbow 4 is the best overall, as I've said previously on the sub. It doesn't mean you'll find your girl there, but across the board they tend to have the best lineup, though its clear they cater a bit more to the Japanese look and taste than other gogos. Its not a bad thing to start the night at Rainbow 4 to see what's happening there, then explore afterwards.

Billboard and butterflies are probably next, billboard club vibe is meh, but they have an enormous lineup of girls, butterflies has a smaller lineup, but most are good quality. Angelwitch is probably next in line here and there are gems to see there but its less consistent and smaller, but angelwitch is usually a more fun spot to be because they aren't blasting terrible club dance music, its mostly rock.

[QUOTE=GinAndTonic555;2493381]I always hear people on other forums say how billboard is the best gogo in BKK. I rarely see any youthful girls there. It's mostly the same girls now for many years. Then they expect really expensive prices. I think the owner of these gogos has done a really good job hyping his product online through forums and stickmans website to make people believe he has a superior product to other places.

Butterflies I think has a better lineup then billboard I still think it can't compete with Rainbow4,5 and twister even. Random has some nice talent but it is a smaller gogo but IME you can always find a couple real hot girls in there.[/QUOTE]I have never heard of Random, is it new?

I read a lot of Nana bars closed, is Random a LB bar?

[QUOTE=CockaSaurus;2493616]I have never heard of Random, is it new?

I read a lot of Nana bars closed, is Random a LB bar?[/QUOTE]Random used to be where a ladyboy bar was its a new one. I can't remember the name of the LB bar but its right by the stairs on the 2nd floor right when you go up. I thought it was going to be a LB bar esp with the name "random" like is it a girl or a LB seems like a bad name haha. Its for sure 100% ladies.

A lot of the girls used to work in rainbow and other bars in the plaza. Talent as of a couple weeks ago was really good.

[QUOTE=CockaSaurus;2493616]I have never heard of Random, is it new?

I read a lot of Nana bars closed, is Random a LB bar?[/QUOTE]GinAndTonic and others can correct me if I am wrong but Random go-go bar, located on the second level at the top of the steps on the left as you enter Nana Plaza, used to be Rainbow 3. It is not a LB bar but it might be mixed, not sure. I don't remember seeing a LB on stage the 1 time I stopped in for a drink several weeks back.

That bar was where a kind of cute but too heavily tattooed for my usual preference blonde-ish girl I bought a Ladydrink for was climbing all over me, Deep French Kissing me in the bar like True Love but, when I asked upfront, refused to accept bareback with me because "I am afraid of Corona."

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2493707]GinAndTonic and others can correct me if I am wrong but Random go-go bar, located on the second level at the top of the steps on the left as you enter Nana Plaza, used to be Rainbow 3. It is not a LB bar but it might be mixed, not sure. I don't remember seeing a LB on stage the 1 time I stopped in for a drink several weeks back.

That bar was where a kind of cute but too heavily tattooed for my usual preference blonde-ish girl I bought a Ladydrink for was climbing all over me, Deep French Kissing me in the bar like True Love but, when I asked upfront, refused to accept bareback with me because "I am afraid of Corona."[/QUOTE]That was the Thai way of telling you to cover or put a mask on your other head face. LOL.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2493707]GinAndTonic and others can correct me if I am wrong but Random go-go bar, located on the second level at the top of the steps on the left as you enter Nana Plaza, used to be Rainbow 3. It is not a LB bar but it might be mixed, not sure. I don't remember seeing a LB on stage the 1 time I stopped in for a drink several weeks back.

That bar was where a kind of cute but too heavily tattooed for my usual preference blonde-ish girl I bought a Ladydrink for was climbing all over me, Deep French Kissing me in the bar like True Love but, when I asked upfront, refused to accept bareback with me because "I am afraid of Corona."[/QUOTE]You know thinking about it now you're correct that bar used to be rainbow 3. Right next door is the lb bar I'm not sure if the lb one is even open. I actually think the bar maybe part of rainbow group as many girls from that group are working there.

I'm pretty sure its all women inside. Actually my first night there I was kind of concerned of the bar was mixed or not. Like I states the name random is such a bad name haha.

Off topic but story from a couple months ago that's somewhat interesting. I'm in rainbow 4 basically not finding the any girls ok with LT as I was looking for a LT girl decide whatever st and go. At R4 see a girl not even my type hot but tons of plastic surgery huge tits mid-late 30's (I normally like young cute girls) but decide this type might be fun. Have her over for a drink tell her no condom ok etc she's fine with it we agree 2 k st at the plaza.

So heading up to the room I snap a few photos of her from behind not showing face she gets bitchy "photos room only". As soon as we get to the room she starts talking about condom, haven't even showered or anything. I'm like "no I told you no condom in bar" she says "I think you joking" I'm like "no condom or no pay" she getting extra bitchy so I'm like whatever I'm going to grab my barfine back. On the way out I ask for room refund as I was in ot not even 5 minutes nope no way.

Back at bar I straight tell the mama there she agreed no condom would not I want my BF back I've taken 4 girls here recently no problems whatsoever. Girl is talking tons of shit ofc. Anyways big scene girl is raging mad waitresses everyone knows what's going on. Mama says ok barfine back. Take my money walking downstairs here comes this botch with 2 security "lady say you take picture cannot have". So I let them go through my phone see a few shitty pics of her back which get deleted and they leave me.

I'm positive she knew I wanted bb I think she thought she could scam me into condom st anyways. Many guys would likely just say fine condom in room at that point. Then she realized I'm not a mug but even then never expected me to go to the bar and complain. This is exactly why I stick to the more innocent types as this was a straight scam.

I actually went to rb4 the next week mana came over "what girl you want". The scammer is gone haven seen her in multiple visits there or anywhere in nana.

Google has the answer:

[URL]https://www.stickboybkk.com/go-go-bars/introducing-nana-plazas-newest-bar-random/[/URL]

Random was created when the two bars mentioned closed down. The space was converted into a single bar and it is 100% women. I'll definitely check the place out as it's getting some good reviews.

[QUOTE=GinAndTonic555;2493730]You know thinking about it now you're correct that bar used to be rainbow 3. Right next door is the lb bar I'm not sure if the lb one is even open. I actually think the bar maybe part of rainbow group as many girls from that group are working there.

I'm pretty sure its all women inside. Actually my first night there I was kind of concerned of the bar was mixed or not. Like I states the name random is such a bad name haha.

Off topic but story from a couple months ago that's somewhat interesting. I'm in rainbow 4 basically not finding the any girls ok with LT as I was looking for a LT girl decide whatever st and go. At R4 see a girl not even my type hot but tons of plastic surgery huge tits mid-late 30's (I normally like young cute girls) but decide this type might be fun. Have her over for a drink tell her no condom ok etc she's fine with it we agree 2 k st at the plaza.

So heading up to the room I snap a few photos of her from behind not showing face she gets bitchy "photos room only". As soon as we get to the room she starts talking about condom, haven't even showered or anything. I'm like "no I told you no condom in bar" she says "I think you joking" I'm like "no condom or no pay" she getting extra bitchy so I'm like whatever I'm going to grab my barfine back. On the way out I ask for room refund as I was in ot not even 5 minutes nope no way.

Back at bar I straight tell the mama there she agreed no condom would not I want my BF back I've taken 4 girls here recently no problems whatsoever. Girl is talking tons of shit ofc. Anyways big scene girl is raging mad waitresses everyone knows what's going on. Mama says ok barfine back. Take my money walking downstairs here comes this botch with 2 security "lady say you take picture cannot have". So I let them go through my phone see a few shitty pics of her back which get deleted and they leave me.

I'm positive she knew I wanted bb I think she thought she could scam me into condom st anyways. Many guys would likely just say fine condom in room at that point. Then she realized I'm not a mug but even then never expected me to go to the bar and complain. This is exactly why I stick to the more innocent types as this was a straight scam.

I actually went to rb4 the next week mana came over "what girl you want". The scammer is gone haven seen her in multiple visits there or anywhere in nana.[/QUOTE]That is an interesting report. I have certainly stopped everything and gone back to the bar to get a refund on the barfine when the girl went from Jekyll to Hyde as soon as the bedroom door closed behind us. But even I never had the nerve to base it so much on her scamming the upfront no condom agreement. Damn bold of you! Hats off. However, I for sure would have done it on that basis alone if one of my helpful mamasans who brought me a girl already vetted on the issue had subsequently changed the rules in the room.

I am not sure I was ever faced with a Yes in the bar but No in the room scam on the upfront no condom agreement as blatantly as it seems happened in your case. Maybe I just don't recall it at the moment. She "thought you were joking"? LOL. That's a first. Then she obviously heard you ask for it, understood the words and heard herself say Yes in reply.

And note, folks, he was not banned, snubbed or even looked down upon for it by the management, the mamasan or the girls worth his time and money to take. It actually worked out for the better for everyone all around. Except for the scamming girl.

[QUOTE=GinAndTonic555;2493730]..............I actually went to rb4 the next week mana came over "what girl you want". The scammer is gone haven seen her in multiple visits there or anywhere in nana.[/QUOTE]Pity. Hope she returns by the time I get to Thailand, I like clean pussies.

[QUOTE=GinAndTonic555;2493730]You know thinking about it now you're correct that bar used to be rainbow 3. Right next door is the lb bar I'm not sure if the lb one is even open. I actually think the bar maybe part of rainbow group as many girls from that group are working there.

I'm pretty sure its all women inside. Actually my first night there I was kind of concerned of the bar was mixed or not. Like I states the name random is such a bad name haha.

Off topic but story from a couple months ago that's somewhat interesting. I'm in rainbow 4 basically not finding the any girls ok with LT as I was looking for a LT girl decide whatever st and go. At R4 see a girl not even my type hot but tons of plastic surgery huge tits mid-late 30's (I normally like young cute girls) but decide this type might be fun. Have her over for a drink tell her no condom ok etc she's fine with it we agree 2 k st at the plaza.

So heading up to the room I snap a few photos of her from behind not showing face she gets bitchy "photos room only". As soon as we get to the room she starts talking about condom, haven't even showered or anything. I'm like "no I told you no condom in bar" she says "I think you joking" I'm like "no condom or no pay" she getting extra bitchy so I'm like whatever I'm going to grab my barfine back. On the way out I ask for room refund as I was in ot not even 5 minutes nope no way..[/QUOTE]Lesson is don't take Photos unless you get Explicit permission.

About Scammers is it worth to go thru all the trouble to get back $20 dollars. You know nobody got your back. You in their Territory.

[QUOTE=GinAndTonic555;2493693]Random used to be where a ladyboy bar was. It's a new one. I can't remember the name of the LB bar, but its right by the stairs on the second floor right when you go up. [/QUOTE]It's been awhile, but I think the predecessor to Random Go Ga was called Straps -- which was a ladyboy bar. When I last visited in the winter of 2018 there were some VERY attractive dancers in Straps, who I suspect were post-op. If so, kudos to their surgeon. There were also dancers who set off my ladyboy alarm. They were too tall, they had oversize hands, they had low voices, and (the most obvious tell for me) their exaggerated "feminine" mannerisms were far from natural.

Some of the servers were definitely ladyboys, but there was one real women an older sturdier type who looked like she had been serving drunk falang in Nana Plaza for years. I asked her straight up: "What kind bar this? Lady? Or ladyboy?"

"Lady!" she insisted with some vehemence. She then fired up the calculator function on her phone to brief me on the price structure. A session "upstairs" was 3,700. Short time in my room was 4,700 and long time was 6,700.

That price structure seemed designed to encourage sessions "upstairs." Puzzling, I thought. I suspect the pricing aims to avoid the scenario where a customer gets back to his hotel and the ID check proves to be an unpleasant surprise. Perhaps the bar's view is that post-op dancers are, in fact, "ladies" and what the customer doesn't know won't hurt him.

But I was only in there once, and for not very long. So my largely uninformed speculation may be all wrong. As they say on the Interwebs, YMMV, IMHO etc. etc. etc. Besides, the Straps go go is long gone and this analysis is nothing more than an effort to post something here that's not virus related.

[QUOTE=Bunky;2493885]Nana Plaza. Random Go Go. Formerly Known as Straps?[/QUOTE]There were three bars, Straps Chili and RB3. The area occupied by Random was combined from Chili and RB3. Straps was by the Nana yard. Chili was next to Straps in the inside corner away from the yard.

[QUOTE=GinAndTonic555;2493693]Random used to be where a ladyboy bar was its a new one. I can't remember the name of the LB bar but its right by the stairs on the 2nd floor right when you go up. I thought it was going to be a LB bar esp with the name "random" like is it a girl or a LB seems like a bad name haha. Its for sure 100% ladies.

A lot of the girls used to work in rainbow and other bars in the plaza. Talent as of a couple weeks ago was really good.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=EihTooms;2493707]GinAndTonic and others can correct me if I am wrong but Random go-go bar, located on the second level at the top of the steps on the left as you enter Nana Plaza, used to be Rainbow 3. It is not a LB bar but it might be mixed, not sure. I don't remember seeing a LB on stage the 1 time I stopped in for a drink several weeks back.

That bar was where a kind of cute but too heavily tattooed for my usual preference blonde-ish girl I bought a Ladydrink for was climbing all over me, Deep French Kissing me in the bar like True Love but, when I asked upfront, refused to accept bareback with me because "I am afraid of Corona."[/QUOTE]Thank you for the answers. Saw a video on youtube and the girls outside do look pretty good.

Can't wait to check it out next time I'm in BKK whenever that is.

[QUOTE=Nounce;2493898]There were three bars, Straps Chili and RB3. The area occupied by Random was combined from Chili and RB3. Straps was by the Nana yard. Chili was next to Straps in the inside corner away from the yard.[/QUOTE]I think Straps, the Ladyboy go-go bar, is still there. It just has not reopened yet. Could be wrong about that.

Reading from left to right, if you were standing at the top of the first set of stairs from the ground level, is Straps (closed), then Random go-go bar, formerly Rainbow 3.

I can't really confirm or deny anything about Chili's go-go bar to the right of those other two bars and very much tucked in behind the steps leading up to Erotica (closed) and then up to the top floor of the Plaza. You're saying Random took over the space previously occupied by RB 3 and Chili's? I am not sure, Random didn't seem to be all that much bigger on the inside than when it was RB 3. But I bow to anyone else's expertise on that since I did not notice Chili's being opened or not a few nights ago. It had converted to an all LB bar 2-3 years before the shutdown so I'd mostly written it off my list of places to pay attention to long ago.

But I used to pull from Chili's a lot when real females danced there. It was often kind of an unsung little gem for my needs back in its days prior to going all LB.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2493936] You're saying Random took over the space previously occupied by RB 3 and Chili's?[/QUOTE]I got that from stickboy link posted earlier. The article says the owner of Straps is the same owner of Random.

I just reread the the report. They took over the lease of both. Stickboy was guessing the bars would be combined.

[QUOTE=DannyDuck;2493876]Lesson is don't take Photos unless you get Explicit permission.

About Scammers is it worth to go thru all the trouble to get back $20 dollars. You know nobody got your back. You in their Territory.[/QUOTE]It wasn't about the sum of money it was the principle of being scammed. She will think twice about scamming out on a deal on her next customer. The back pictures have nothing to do with anything she actually said "pictures in room only". I think the bar girl told the staff I took pictures of her in the gogo or something which is actually against the rules its 100% allowed to take pictures of a girl outside the agogo.

IRT "you in their territory" A regular customer is worth more then the bar girl in covid times. Many bar girls few customers. It's a buyers market and a good customer should be treated with respect hence why when I returned I was giving my money no problem.

From the info I have, Random is located where Rainbow 3 was, and Chili LB bar is gone. I do not know if the owners of Random bar have enlarged the place by adding the space that was Chili bar or not. Someone on the ground please go there and report back. Rainbow 3 was not a bad Go Go and I occasionally took a girl out of there. It just paled in comparison to RB4. Straps, the mainly post op LB bar is still there.

I once met a girl girl on the balcony in front of Straps and she was so hot that I followed inside despite the inherent risks associated with that bar. I bought the girl a drink, but her bar room manners and personality were terrible. I knew she was going to be trouble in the room, so I passed. Hey, maybe I lucked out because if she had a better bar room personality l would have barfined her and I suppose there was a 0.0001% chance she was a LB and I was completely fooled by her hot looks. A 1st, Ha Ha, but I doubt it.

[QUOTE=GinAndTonic555;2494006]It wasn't about the sum of money it was the principle of being scammed. She will think twice about scamming out on a deal on her next customer. The back pictures have nothing to do with anything she actually said "pictures in room only". I think the bar girl told the staff I took pictures of her in the gogo or something which is actually against the rules its 100% allowed to take pictures of a girl outside the agogo.

IRT "you in their territory" A regular customer is worth more then the bar girl in covid times. Many bar girls few customers. It's a buyers market and a good customer should be treated with respect hence why when I returned I was giving my money no problem.[/QUOTE]My way better. Scammers part of the game.

My way not have to worry about being Beaten up by gaggle of Thai Boys. LOL.

About being legal to photo outside of bar. I wouldn't test your theory. Please see above about mean Thai boys.

I'm a Proud Boy. Proud to be a coward. LOL.

It's Bargirls. Come on lighten up. Leave your principles at the entrance of Nana Plaza.

[QUOTE=GinAndTonic555;2493730]You know thinking about it now you're correct that bar used to be rainbow 3. Right next door is the lb bar I'm not sure if the lb one is even open. I actually think the bar maybe part of rainbow group as many girls from that group are working there.

I'm pretty sure its all women inside. Actually my first night there I was kind of concerned of the bar was mixed or not. Like I states the name random is such a bad name haha.

Off topic but story from a couple months ago that's somewhat interesting. I'm in rainbow 4 basically not finding the any girls ok with LT as I was looking for a LT girl decide whatever st and go. At R4 see a girl not even my type hot but tons of plastic surgery huge tits mid-late 30's (I normally like young cute girls) but decide this type might be fun. Have her over for a drink tell her no condom ok etc she's fine with it we agree 2 k st at the plaza.

So heading up to the room I snap a few photos of her from behind not showing face she gets bitchy "photos room only". As soon as we get to the room she starts talking about condom, haven't even showered or anything. I'm like "no I told you no condom in bar" she says "I think you joking" I'm like "no condom or no pay" she getting extra bitchy so I'm like whatever I'm going to grab my barfine back. On the way out I ask for room refund as I was in ot not even 5 minutes nope no way.[/QUOTE]Rainbow 4 has had some of the best eye candy in Nana Plaza since time immemorial. I've known some RB4 girls from the time they were eighteen till they dropped off the radar screen in their late twenties. They tend to have crap personalities. They like to up-sell. In general they're a horrible lot and some of them are just true bitches. You can cum in some of them though which is a nice upside. The best body I've ever seen on any girl anywhere was from RB4 - all her numbers went dead after the coup in 2014. The place has always been a hassle with the lady drinks. Buy a beer for yourself and let it sit there and just say no to the lady drinks. Some of the mamas there a dinosaurs of the bar trade who've been around for decades. It's a great place to go and look at the start of the night though, especially with a good friend.

[QUOTE=GinAndTonic555;2494006]It wasn't about the sum of money it was the principle of being scammed. She will think twice about scamming out on a deal on her next customer. The back pictures have nothing to do with anything she actually said "pictures in room only". I think the bar girl told the staff I took pictures of her in the gogo or something which is actually against the rules its 100% allowed to take pictures of a girl outside the agogo.

IRT "you in their territory" A regular customer is worth more then the bar girl in covid times. Many bar girls few customers. It's a buyers market and a good customer should be treated with respect hence why when I returned I was giving my money no problem.[/QUOTE]I took a hot little spinner originally from Rainbow 2 but now merged into Rainbow 4 last night about 10pm. She had one of the better small spinner type bodies on the stage and a cute/sexy face so I told the mamasan to bring her down for a Ladydrink. She was delighted. Great chemistry in the bar booth.

I offered to take her for LT because most often I prefer LT. She was fine with that, quoted 5,000, I countered with 3,000 and "boom boom no condom." She said Ok. I paid the 1,000 baht (weekend rate?) barfine and off she went to change into her street clothes.

The mamasan said something in her ear and gestured to me with a smile right before we left.

From then on it was one of the better, no hassle, no unpleasant surprises, smoothest and pleasurable LT sessions I have had in a while, especially since the post-lockdown bar reopenings. It was easily the best I have had with any of the Rainbow bar group girls. She left my apartment at about 8:30am after a morning round.

To whatever extent showing scammer girls the door and most certainly returning to the bar to politely complain to the mamasan and request a refund of the barfine, as you did, contributed to the unusually fine customer service I enjoyed last night and this morning, I thank you for being a much bigger part of the solution and not even a small part of the problem. Lol.

Seriously, as intimidating as it might seem to handle blatant bar and bargirl problems that way, it is not only worth it for our own benefit but for every customer that follows us.

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;2494018]Someone on the ground please go there and report back. [/QUOTE]Natty, I misread Stickboy's article which was guessing the two would be combined in the future. EihTooms has been there and this is his observation.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2493936]You're saying Random took over the space previously occupied by RB 3 and Chili's? I am not sure, Random didn't seem to be all that much bigger on the inside than when it was RB 3.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Nounce;2494372]Natty, I misread Stickboy's article which was guessing the two would be combined in the future. EihTooms has been there and this is his observation.[/QUOTE]As you see in my previous post I was right there in Nana Plaza last night and, you know, as I left my apartment I made a mental note to check that out. But damned if it didn't completely slip my mind when I got there. It's getting slipperier up there by the year. The thing is I never went to that corner of the Plaza last night, only to the opposite corner for Rainbow 4.

[QUOTE=Nounce;2494372]Natty, I misread Stickboy's article which was guessing the two would be combined in the future. EihTooms has been there and this is his observation.[/QUOTE]Having just checked out the area a few minutes ago, there is Straps ladyboy bar at the top of the first set of stairs on the left, closed but still displaying an unlighted sign. Then Random go-go bar in the old Rainbow 3 location. Then there is an ornate new door set up next to the first step of the second set of stairs where if that is all you see you could conclude that Random did indeed expand into whatever was behind that door, presumably Chili's go-go bar, although there is no longer a sign for it on display.

However, look closer, go up 1-2 of those steps where that ornate door is mounted and you can see behind the new door is a small trashed hallway leading to what used to be Chili's entrance.

So the space that used to be Chili's is still back there and separated from the interior of Random, which has not really expanded its bar area into what was Chili's bar. Not yet anyway. Unless there is an interior passway and they are using it for storage, dressing room, lockers and so on.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2494341]I took a hot little spinner originally from Rainbow 2 but now merged into Rainbow 4 last night about 10pm. She had one of the better small spinner type bodies on the stage and a cute/sexy face so I told the mamasan to bring her down for a Ladydrink. She was delighted. Great chemistry in the bar booth.

I offered to take her for LT because most often I prefer LT. She was fine with that, quoted 5,000, I countered with 3,000 and "boom boom no condom." She said Ok. I paid the 1,000 baht (weekend rate?) barfine and off she went to change into her street clothes.

The mamasan said something in her ear and gestured to me with a smile right before we left.

From then on it was one of the better, no hassle, no unpleasant surprises, smoothest and pleasurable LT sessions I have had in a while, especially since the post-lockdown bar reopenings. It was easily the best I have had with any of the Rainbow bar group girls. She left my apartment at about 8:30am after a morning round.

To whatever extent showing scammer girls the door and most certainly returning to the bar to politely complain to the mamasan and request a refund of the barfine, as you did, contributed to the unusually fine customer service I enjoyed last night and this morning, I thank you for being a much bigger part of the solution and not even a small part of the problem. Lol.

Seriously, as intimidating as it might seem to handle blatant bar and bargirl problems that way, it is not only worth it for our own benefit but for every customer that follows us.[/QUOTE]I wouldn't correlate you picking a fun performer and the guy complaining previously.

Scientist all agree no connection whatsoever.

If your theory is correct no one shall ever have a bad Rainbow 4 Barfine ever again.

[QUOTE=DannyDuck;2494531]I wouldn't correlate you picking a fun performer and the guy complaining previously.

Scientist all agree no connection whatsoever.

If your theory is correct no one shall ever have a bad Rainbow 4 Barfine ever again.[/QUOTE]If I'd made my point as ridiculously absolute as you mischaracterized it, you would be correct about that flawed theoretical conclusion.

But I didn't.

[QUOTE=DannyDuck;2494805]Get your reports out fast guys. My sources tell me govt planning on turning off internet access Soon.[/QUOTE]Your "sources" might be talking about this.

Richard Barrow in Thailand.

20 h.

The Ministry of Digital Economy & Society has warned netizens that they're monitoring social media 24/7 to see if people violate the Computer Crime Act. So far, they have logged 324,990 incidents.

This includes 75,076 tweets, 245,678 Facebook posts & 4,236 forum posts.

I only skim through posts looking for key words but I don't recall any recent updates on Thermae or Thaniya Road. Both areas still busy or dead? Prices cheaper these days?

[QUOTE=DannyDuck;2494805]Get your reports out fast guys. My sources tell me govt planning on turning off internet access Soon.[/QUOTE]And a tsunami will engulf Loei? Massage parlors and bars will be closed once and for all? Motorcycle licenses are going to cost 30000 baht per month?

SS.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2494949]I only skim through posts looking for key words but I don't recall any recent updates on Thermae or Thaniya Road. Both areas still busy or dead? Prices cheaper these days?[/QUOTE]I walk past Thermae almost nightly, often around the 8pm-10pm hours. I rarely see more than 4-5 sullen looking girls in the 7 to 7.5 level range standing near the stairs waiting for it to open. A few times I have walked down, opened the door and never saw more than 10-12 girls in the place, maybe 2 old Asian guys sitting behind the center bar staring at their drink. Once I looked in at about 9pm and did not see one person in there except the drink servers and bartenders.

I have not seen any real lookers in or outside Thermae for weeks. There was a brief period where a few of them would stand outside since there was a greater chance of encountering a stray customer outside. But I have not seen that in a while. Not even on clear, cool evenings when it doesn't rain.

Maybe someone else has popped in and seen it crowded or worth the time lately.

The last time I walked down Thaniya Road was about a month ago. I think a couple of karaoke places were open with older looking girls than usual sitting outside. But there was nothing particularly notable about it that I can recall. Patpong 1 and 2 were dark and nearly deserted. Can't remember what night of the week it was though. Maybe that makes a big difference.

Hey guys,

Saw that Thailand has these Special Tourist Visas for 90 days. I have been seriously contemplating moving to Thailand for 90 days. I have been to Thailand once before and fell in love. I only have to go into work once a month and I think I can get the next few months off. I take online university classes as well though and I am slightly worried about the distractions.

Either way any advice or ballpark figures on cost of living for three months? I am looking at apartments in the Sukhumvit area close to the BTS. I need reliable internet for my classes so any recommendations on that would be appreciated. I know my money would be better off waiting till they reopen but who the fuck knows when that is. I want to take advantage of this online workplace stuff while I can.

If I can pull this off you will hear plenty of stories, no more sob stuff about how covid has killed things.

[QUOTE=MongerLoids;2495003]Hey guys,

Saw that Thailand has these Special Tourist Visas for 90 days. I have been seriously contemplating moving to Thailand for 90 days. I have been to Thailand once before and fell in love. I only have to go into work once a month and I think I can get the next few months off. I take online university classes as well though and I am slightly worried about the distractions.

Either way any advice or ballpark figures on cost of living for three months? I am looking at apartments in the Sukhumvit area close to the BTS. I need reliable internet for my classes so any recommendations on that would be appreciated. I know my money would be better off waiting till they reopen but who the fuck knows when that is. I want to take advantage of this online workplace stuff while I can.

If I can pull this off you will hear plenty of stories, no more sob stuff about how covid has killed things.[/QUOTE]Your wasting your time and money. But if you decide to do it, you can get a nice place and live like a king on the BTS for $1200 a month. Add your mongering costs to that. Make sure you stay away for the central biz areas.

[QUOTE=MongerLoids;2495003]Either way any advice or ballpark figures on cost of living for three months?[/QUOTE]If you have to ask about costs I'm pretty certain you will not be one of the lucky ones Thailand will let in on a STV. Also, if you are not a Chinese National you will not get in to Thailand with a STV for a very long time. It's clear that they want people from China.

So the first planes have arrived from China with the select few STV applicants. These are the supposed richest of the rich to bounce the Thai economy back to normal. Am I the only one who finds it ironic they flew in on a BUDGET China airline? I know my rich friends would never fly on budget airlines. So are these STV people from China truly the richest of the rich?

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2495253]If you have to ask about costs I'm pretty certain you will not be one of the lucky ones Thailand will let in on a STV. Also, if you are not a Chinese National you will not get in to Thailand with a STV for a very long time. It's clear that they want people from China.

So the first planes have arrived from China with the select few STV applicants. These are the supposed richest of the rich to bounce the Thai economy back to normal. Am I the only one who finds it ironic they flew in on a BUDGET China airline? I know my rich friends would never fly on budget airlines. So are these STV people from China truly the richest of the rich?[/QUOTE]They are all chartered flights. It was probably just the company that arranged to fly there... and bribed the right people on both sides of the border

I have read that there has been a continued crackdown on African working women in BKK. Can boots on the ground confirm? If there are any left, where would one go to find them in BKK?

Perusing my medical journals this morning.

Been known for quite awhile; regular mouthwash renders c29 inactive.

Now you know why Thai girls always use a Rinse before rendering oral services. LOL.

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2495253]
So the first planes have arrived from China with the select few STV applicants. These are the supposed richest of the rich to bounce the Thai economy back to normal. Am I the only one who finds it ironic they flew in on a BUDGET China airline? I know my rich friends would never fly on budget airlines. So are these STV people from China truly the richest of the rich?[/QUOTE]

You do realise Spring and Juneyao while both budget airlines are the only direct flight airlines sold on [URL]Trip.com[/URL] (the chinese expedia / kayak site) from Shanghai to Bangkok in these COVID days.

The flights are around 1300 eur one way flight and 1800 eur (2130 USD) return flight for a 4-5H flight in normal budget economy seats which is about triple the price of a business return ticket on a commercial airline from Shanghai to Bangkok prior to covid and 10 times the price of an economy class ticket.

[QUOTE=MongerLoids;2495003]Either way any advice or ballpark figures on cost of living for three months? I am looking at apartments in the Sukhumvit area close to the BTS.[/QUOTE]I have done this calculation at least a dozen times, and always end up in the same place. In summary:

The apartment rent you settle on x 2 + companionship (ladies) = a reasonable monthly budget.

This does not include health insurance or excessive nightly drinking at pubs and clubs. Companionship costs vary by individual depending on frequency and price point.

SL.

[QUOTE=GinAndTonic555;2494006]It wasn't about the sum of money it was the principle of being scammed. She will think twice about scamming out on a deal on her next customer. The back pictures have nothing to do with anything she actually said "pictures in room only". I think the bar girl told the staff I took pictures of her in the gogo or something which is actually against the rules its 100% allowed to take pictures of a girl outside the agogo.

IRT "you in their territory" A regular customer is worth more then the bar girl in covid times. Many bar girls few customers. It's a buyers market and a good customer should be treated with respect hence why when I returned I was giving my money no problem.[/QUOTE]So she was a scammer because she couldn't be trusted with your BBFS negotiation.

You really want to trust your health to BBFS with someone like that?

Opening up your own blood supply and mucous membranes to someone who isn't reputable seems like Russian Roulette. For all you know, she could have gone along with BBFS and you'd discover an infection that could be fatal. You wouldn't have gotten your $20 barfine back, plus expensive and painful medical situations and potentially death. Worth it? Scary to me.

[QUOTE=BPalacio;2495275]I have read that there has been a continued crackdown on African working women in BKK. Can boots on the ground confirm? If there are any left, where would one go to find them in BKK?[/QUOTE]I still see 4-5 of them congregating on Soi 4, from the closed Dynasty Inn to the Soi 6 intersection, usually from 8pm until bars close, 1am-2am, maybe later.

Or at least I did as recently as a few nights ago.

For a while there was a new tallish slim one that actually looked well proportioned and fairly doable. She showed up on Sukhumvit every now and then too. But I don't recall seeing her around for a couple of weeks at least.

Just a quick update on Thermae tonight, Friday night. There were more girls there at 9pm than I have seen at that hour for a while. I counted 30 girls, maybe 6 of them definite lookers and about 10 Asian customers, most sitting at the bar without a girl. And me.

Most of the girls seemed receptive, smiled at me and nodded slightly. Even most of the lookers. Until the occasional group if 35ish y.o. Asian guys came in every few minutes over the course of 30 minutes or so.

I did not approach a girl there tonight because I had just been drained by a very cute 23 year old sweet faced, pony-tailed, girl-next-door type with a full and complete BBBJ+CIM+Swallow With a Smile finish at 4pm. 1,500 baht including travel to and from my room. I have repeated her many times for that or fucking. A favorite.

On top of which, there is a pretty cute little mid-20's cherub bed warmer coming over to spend the night in about 30 minutes after her regular job is finished in a few minutes. Haven't seen her in over a year. Money or no money, up to me.

That is why I had a few minutes to update on Thermae as I saw it about an hour ago.

[QUOTE=Sunlover2;2495619]I have done this calculation at least a dozen times, and always end up in the same place. In summary:

The apartment rent you settle on x 2 + companionship (ladies) = a reasonable monthly budget.

This does not include health insurance or excessive nightly drinking at pubs and clubs. Companionship costs vary by individual depending on frequency and price point.

SL.[/QUOTE]Sounds like a good equation. As BB mentioned I'm probably out of luck as they want chinese tourists and being from the states no one wants us.

I can't wait to get out of here even if I pay a premium but we'll see what they say.

[QUOTE=Sunlover2;2495619]I have done this calculation at least a dozen times, and always end up in the same place. In summary:

The apartment rent you settle on x 2 + companionship (ladies) = a reasonable monthly budget.

This does not include health insurance or excessive nightly drinking at pubs and clubs. Companionship costs vary by individual depending on frequency and price point.

SL.[/QUOTE]An interesting hypothesis Sunlover and one that seemingly works for you.

Like everything its relative. A basic studio in Lower Sukhumvit will set you back 20k to 25k including utilities but if it's a one bed serviced apartment then you're at 50 k up. Outside of rent it's how well you eat. A basic noodles and rice guy can get by on 500 a day but if you like lobster or wagyu once or twice a week there goes your weekly budget in an evening.

The elephant in the room is entertainment. Here there are no rules of thumb. Some members on the forum seem to have no problem getting laid on a daily basis for less than a 1000 while others mainly go go habitués will spend 5000 plus.

For what it's worth my own recommendation for an enjoyable 3 month stay including entertainment would be a budget of 350 K to 450K.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2495889]An interesting hypothesis Sunlover and one that seemingly works for you.

Like everything its relative. A basic studio in Lower Sukhumvit will set you back 20k to 25k including utilities but if it's a one bed serviced apartment then you're at 50 k up. Outside of rent it's how well you eat. A basic noodles and rice guy can get by on 500 a day but if you like lobster or wagyu once or twice a week there goes your weekly budget in an evening.

The elephant in the room is entertainment. Here there are no rules of thumb. Some members on the forum seem to have no problem getting laid on a daily basis for less than a 1000 while others mainly go go habitus will spend 5000 plus.

For what it's worth my own recommendation for an enjoyable 3 month stay including entertainment would be a budget of 350 K to 450K.[/QUOTE]My budget would come in a little higher than yours. The main reason for this difference is in the girl category in which I forecast accounts for no holds barred, maximum expenditures. The reason I use the max figure is because the last thing I want is to under forecast my expenses and be forced to cut back while in country. So, I plan large and if you spend less; great. So here is my budget for a 3 months stay in BKK:

Apartment: $1000 max / month (31,000 tbt / month) For an upscale 1 br apartment on upper Sukhumvit with a pool, 24-hour security, and maid service.

Food: $50/ day or $1500 / month (46,000 tbt / month). This amount includes restaurants, groceries (booze, juice, fruit, personal hygiene products) and dinners with my girls.

Girls: $150 average / day or $4500 / month (140,000 tbt / month). I know this figure might seem high to some BM's, but in covers my average of 1.5 girls per day or one girl every night and 2 girls every other day. I really do not want to be caught short on this estimate because running out of cash for girls would be about the worst thing that could happen in BKK. LOL. And again, if my estimate turns out to be high and I end up spending less through working out special arrangements with my favorite girls; all the better. I would also add that this estimate includes all girly drinks and there for I think it is all inclusive and contains no comprises on quality. You can do same quantity / less quality and save money, but trying saving money is not why I visit Thailand.

So, adding it all up, my estimate for a monthly good time in BKK is $6,944 / month or 217,000 tbt / month all inclusive: condo, food, girls, and misc. It does not include air transport. I did say I was going to come in a little higher that your estimate Franciscass. Yours was 450 k for 3 months. Mine is 615 k for 3 months. I think we are in the same ballpark.

I stay in a small apartment building with a one bedroom apartment in lower Suk. 4 minute walk to the Nana Station and very central. It's been my go to place for the last several years during the winter months. The lady who owns the building speaks good English and is friendly though does not live on site. Very private with a key card to enter. The rent, plus a-see and cable, is at 27 k bt per month. I generally spend an additional 55-60 k bt Per month for the rest of my expenses, which includes mongering activities. The key for me to keep my budget in line is avoiding the go go bars. I don't like this scene, the loud and bad music, smoky air, largely insincere girls, bar fines, short time prices, etc. And the general hustle and rip offs prevalent. Instead I stick to small bars, sometimes hit the street scene, and on occasion certain discos and night clubs. I used to enjoy the now defunct Bangkok Beat and though no place similar has replaced it, I do like Hilary2 on Soi 4. No barfine, you get to chat with the ladies a bit more to sift through the posers, and most girls there are highly motivated to negotiate and performance overall is pretty good, though stay away from the Vietnamese girls. Some of the news bars on Soi 7 have potential but alas Covid has got in the way to see how that area will turn out.

Some years during the winter months, I have joined the Marriot athletic club on Soi 2. They offer 3 month membership and have a nice pool one would expect from a four star hotel. This past winter, I stumbled across a small hotel on Lai Nert, which had an inexpensive lunch and you could use their pool for free too. Generally, I was the only one at the pool and having lunch unless I brought company.

I usually get a two month visa in my home country for 1200 bt, and then either extend for an additional 30 days at immigration or leave the country for several days before returning for the remainder of my stay. By doing the latter, you save 1800 bt as when you return, if by air, Thailand has a free entry. There are inexpensive flights on Air Asia to Vietnam and Laos, Cambodia So you can easily check out the scene and scenery in another neighboring Country and though drastically different from Bangkok always has interesting aspects to break up my visit.

Having returned four times over the last six years, it makes it easier to find good deals for food and restaurants. Margaritaville in Soi 13 and Suk has good and inexpensive breakfast. Kiwis used to be good too but they have closed. But, there are a multitude of choices and easy to keep food costs under control. I also don't take dates to dinner or lunch. Just find it a waste of time and money. Most girls I meet don't speak English well enough so it's tough to have any kind of meaningful conversation with them in the end.

Anyway, I am retired so you guys who are still working or enjoy fat pensions may be able to spend more freely but for me, it's def cheaper, warmer, and more fun than spending my winters in a cold and inhospitable climate (in more ways than one). But with Covid potentially rearing it's ugly head for many more years, my lifestyle has grounded to an abrupt halt.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2495889]An interesting hypothesis Sunlover and one that seemingly works for you.

Like everything its relative. A basic studio in Lower Sukhumvit will set you back 20k to 25k including utilities but if it's a one bed serviced apartment then you're at 50 k up. Outside of rent it's how well you eat. A basic noodles and rice guy can get by on 500 a day but if you like lobster or wagyu once or twice a week there goes your weekly budget in an evening.

The elephant in the room is entertainment. Here there are no rules of thumb. Some members on the forum seem to have no problem getting laid on a daily basis for less than a 1000 while others mainly go go habitus will spend 5000 plus.

For what it's worth my own recommendation for an enjoyable 3 month stay including entertainment would be a budget of 350 K to 450K.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Tomasb;2496075]Kiwis used to be good too but they have closed. [/QUOTE]When did Kiwi's close? They moved around the corner a few years ago. I was there about a year ago but like most others I haven't been able to return this year.

Right, they moved to the side Soi off 8. However, they closed around late March this year due to Covid and it appears they decided not to re-open. Given the economic conditions in Bangkok now, it appears to be the right move. Also, a bummer was the closure of the ArtBox on Suk. Someone thinks it's a good idea to build a big fancy hotel and mall during the middle of a pandemic, tourists be damned. Just what Bangkok needs!

[QUOTE=Kerrstar;2496124]When did Kiwi's close? They moved around the corner a few years ago. I was there about a year ago but like most others I haven't been able to return this year.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;2496064]Girls: $150 average / day or $4500 / month (140,000 tbt / month). I know this figure might seem high to some BM's, but in covers my average of 1.5 girls per day or one girl every night and 2 girls every other day..[/QUOTE]Yup! Three sessions every two days over a 3 month stay, that adds up. Incidentally Natty whatever you are on when you're here can my waning libido have some please.

[QUOTE=Tomasb;2496186]Right, they moved to the side Soi off 8. However, they closed around late March this year due to Covid and it appears they decided not to re-open. Given the economic conditions in Bangkok now, it appears to be the right move. Also, a bummer was the closure of the ArtBox on Suk. Someone thinks it's a good idea to build a big fancy hotel and mall during the middle of a pandemic, tourists be damned. Just what Bangkok needs![/QUOTE]Kiwi Pub on the little sub soi off Soi 8 has been open every day for several weeks now. Still has the 199 baht pick 7 items breakfast. The Sunday carvery is no longer a buffet but a pre ordered single plate.

The only So 8 restaurant that seems to have closed permanently is the Italian restaurant Via Vai (sp?). Well, the spot where Invite was is the new location for Monsoon (same owner) while Monsoon's original location is being renovated.

IMO, the best American style breakfast in that general area for real deal bacon, pancakes, chili omelet, home fried potatoes, etc, is The Tavern on Soi 4 across from Hillary 1.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;2495672]Just a quick update on Thermae tonight, Friday night. There were more girls there at 9pm than I have seen at that hour for a while. I counted 30 girls, maybe 6 of them definite lookers and about 10 Asian customers, most sitting at the bar without a girl. And me.[/QUOTE]Thanks for the Thermae update, ET. 6 lookers and 11 customers seems like pretty good odds if you are looking for a girl. Any new girls or are these the same girls who have been at Thermae for years?

[QUOTE=BananaBoi;2496205]Thanks for the Thermae update, ET. 6 lookers and 11 customers seems like pretty good odds if you are looking for a girl. Any new girls or are these the same girls who have been at Thermae for years?[/QUOTE]You're welcome, BB. I remember seeing a couple of the lookers during normal times. But most of the girls there lately do not look familiar to me. It could be they were the ones that kind of blended into the background and were not so noticeable before though.

[QUOTE=Tomasb;2496075]The key for me to keep my budget in line is avoiding the go go bars. I don't like this scene, the loud and bad music, smoky air, largely insincere girls, bar fines, short time prices, etc. And the general hustle and rip offs prevalent. Instead I stick to small bars, sometimes hit the street scene, and on occasion certain discos and night clubs. I used to enjoy the now defunct Bangkok Beat and though no place similar has replaced it, I do like Hilary2 on Soi 4. No barfine, you get to chat with the ladies a bit more to sift through the posers, and most girls there are highly motivated to negotiate and performance overall is pretty good, though stay away from the Vietnamese girls. Some of the news bars on Soi 7 have potential but alas Covid has got in the way to see how that area will turn out.
[/QUOTE]I've also avoided go-go bars for the past few years for the same reasons as you so I'm a bit curious why you think Hillary 2 is better. Last time I went in there I recall the music being loud (but not deafening like in Butterflies and Billboard) and girls nearby blowing smoke all over me so I left. I also found them to be older (25+) hardened hooker types.

A window on Sukhumvit.

Last Saturday night, I went into Bully's for a burger at a little after seven, the first time I'the been in there in over six months. It wasn't very busy, maybe six or eight people in and out during the two hours or so I was there, but that's not what surprised me. The showstopper was that I sat in that front booth by the window looking out at the sidewalk along Sukhumvit and I'the bet you not a total twenty-five people walked past in the almost two hours I was sitting there. Heck, last year you'd see twenty-five people on that sidewalk in a single glance out the window, but now ten minutes or more would pass without a single human-being in sight. Not one. It was bizarre. Almost frightening. Like something bad had happened out there and I was the last to know about it.

When I finished eating, it was a little after nine — this was on a Saturday, remember — and I thought I'the walk down to Nana Plaza and see just how quiet it was over there. That turned out to be one of the strangest experiences of my life. In the walk up Sukhumvit and then right on Soi Nana all the way to the entrance of the Plaza, I saw not one single farang face. Not one. The line of motorcycle taxi boys was in place at the corner, on the other side of the soi the food vendors were set up as always between the police box and the entrance (although there were fewer of them), and a scattering of girls were in their usual slots in the Nana parking lot. But it was if a neutron bomb had wiped out all the visitors and simply left all these people standing around like extras waiting around a movie set. It was downright eerie.

I felt so conspicuous being the only potential customer in sight that I turned around without actually going through the entrance into the Plaza and turned around to head back up the soi. When I did, I walked up Soi Nana all the way from the Plaza to Sukhumvit — not on the sidewalk, but right in the middle of the street — and I didn't encounter a single car or tuk-tuk or even a bike. I was alone in the middle of Soi Nana at 9:30 PM on a Saturday night with the motorcycle taxi boys and the food vendors and the hookers gathered on both sides of the soi just staring vacantly at me. You could have shot a horror movie right there without changing a thing.

[QUOTE=Berrys66;2496358]A window on Sukhumvit.

Last Saturday night, I went into Bully's for a burger at a little after seven, the first time I'the been in there in over six months. It wasn't very busy, maybe six or eight people in and out during the two hours or so I was there, but that's not what surprised me. The showstopper was that I sat in that front booth by the window looking out at the sidewalk along Sukhumvit and I'the bet you not a total twenty-five people walked past in the almost two hours I was sitting there. Heck, last year you'd see twenty-five people on that sidewalk in a single glance out the window, but now ten minutes or more would pass without a single human-being in sight. Not one. It was bizarre. Almost frightening. Like something bad had happened out there and I was the last to know about it.

When I finished eating, it was a little after nine this was on a Saturday, remember and I thought I'the walk down to Nana Plaza and see just how quiet it was over there. That turned out to be one of the strangest experiences of my life. In the walk up Sukhumvit and then right on Soi Nana all the way to the entrance of the Plaza, I saw not one single farang face. Not one. The line of motorcycle taxi boys was in place at the corner, on the other side of the soi the food vendors were set up as always between the police box and the entrance (although there were fewer of them), and a scattering of girls were in their usual slots in the Nana parking lot. But it was if a neutron bomb had wiped out all the visitors and simply left all these people standing around like extras waiting around a movie set. It was downright eerie.[/QUOTE]Come on man. Two hours eating a Burger, in a prime location.

I see City Lodge on the corner of Sukhumvit Soi 9 at BTS Nana and above The Game sports bar and restaurant is displaying multiple banners for "Rooms, 8,000 Baht Per Month."

I have never seen their rooms except for photos on their website, know they don't have a pool, probably no fitness center to speak of and I imagine noise could be a problem if you choose a room overlooking Sukhumvit or the floor directly above The Game. But it seems to me 8,000 baht per month for a decent hotel room at that location is a pretty good deal for anyone lucky enough to be in Bangkok and looking for a budget stay.

There are at least two hotels with pools within a 5 minute walk from that corner that allow visitors to use their pool, usually if you buy anything as minimal at their coffee shop as a bottle of water; Stable Lodge on Soi 8 and Four Points by Sheraton on Soi 15. The latter doesn't require a purchase of anything. Just ride the elevator up to the rooftop pool area and enjoy.

[QUOTE=Berrys66;2496358]A window on Sukhumvit.
copy & paste from Stickman[/QUOTE]Why copy and paste from Stickman without comment? I think most people here read his website and he definitely reads this forum as a number of things that have been discussed on this forum have appeared on his weekly column shortly after, such as offdek. So as I'm sure you're reading this Stickman, please no more articles on how few customers there are around. It's all about the girls, not the customers, and there are still plenty around.

Talking of Offdek, I added a very attractive girl to Line and she later sent me a video of herself with a nice message in English. A video is a much better way of judging the looks of someone than a photo that has gone through various filters and touch ups. I still think she's very attractive but in spite of calling herself a real woman in her advert, I do have a bit of suspicion that she's a post-op. I mean, it's not uncommon for transsexuals to hide the fact that they are transsexual so I wonder what percentage of those "real women" are. I would say I'm 70% sure she's a real woman so I'm tempted to give her a go.

[QUOTE=DannyDuck;2496706]Come on man. Two hours eating a Burger, in a prime location.[/QUOTE]I can only imagine what he is like inside the GoGo? LOL.

[QUOTE=*****man;2496826]Talking of Offdek, I added a very attractive girl to Line and she later sent me a video of herself with a nice message in English. A video is a much better way of judging the looks of someone than a photo that has gone through various filters and touch ups.
I would say I'm 70% sure she's a real woman so I'm tempted to give her a go.[/QUOTE]Unfortunately, now the video filters are almost as powerful and misleading as the photo filters.

Technology is faster than us, specially if you are flirting with young LBoys.

[QUOTE=DannyDuck;2496706]Come on man. Two hours eating a Burger, in a prime location.[/QUOTE]Memories, memories.

I never cared for Bullys Burgers. When I left in January, my go to Burger in that area was Bad Burger, which I hear is now closed. I could never spend two hours there tho. Now Margarita Storm? Sit outside with footie on the telly and some fab Filipino Tex Mex and watch the freak show.

Thanks to you guys on the ground for reports not just about pussy, but about BKK itself, my second home that I fear I won't ever be in again.

So you don't think I'm suffering here in Siem Reap, I did pound a hot Khmer chick the other day on the cheap, but as usual here, no yamyam. I miss Wood Bar. Or Kasalong. Or Roritas. Or even Euro girl tourists.

You dudes who stayed are lucky. Reading your stories makes me forget about the bad air and shitty immigration rules that finally made me leave. I hope someone goes to Mixx someday, if it's even open.

My visa in Cambodia expires March 1st. I need to decide whether my days in Asia are over. If Thailand isn't open by then, guess its time to head back to the World and amuse myself in Vegas.

[QUOTE=Nyezhov;2497121]Memories, memories.

I never cared for Bullys Burgers. When I left in January, my go to Burger in that area was Bad Burger, which I hear is now closed. I could never spend two hours there tho. Now Margarita Storm? Sit outside with footie on the telly and some fab Filipino Tex Mex and watch the freak show.

Thanks to you guys on the ground for reports not just about pussy, but about BKK itself, my second home that I fear I won't ever be in again.

So you don't think I'm suffering here in Siem Reap, I did pound a hot Khmer chick the other day on the cheap, but as usual here, no yamyam. I miss Wood Bar. Or Kasalong. Or Roritas. Or even Euro girl tourists.

You dudes who stayed are lucky. Reading your stories makes me forget about the bad air and shitty immigration rules that finally made me leave. I hope someone goes to Mixx someday, if it's even open.

My visa in Cambodia expires March 1st. I need to decide whether my days in Asia are over. If Thailand isn't open by then, guess its time to head back to the World and amuse myself in Vegas.[/QUOTE]If I were stuck in Asia now I would never leave. And sorry to tell you Nyezhov but a friend told me Bad Burger is closed for good.

[QUOTE=DrBrianJones;2497002]Unfortunately, now the video filters are almost as powerful and misleading as the photo filters.

Technology is faster than us, specially if you are flirting with young LBoys.[/QUOTE]She does say in her advert that if you turn up and she's not the same as her photos then you can cancel. The only reason I'm suspicious is because she's 165 cm, has fake boobs and looks a bit too good to be true. She reminds me of one of those pretties you see at car shows. Maybe she is one but business isn't good. I think I'll give her a go and have a close vaginal inspection as soon as I get in the room.

[QUOTE=Tomasb;2496075]I stay in a small apartment building with a one bedroom apartment in lower Suk. 4 minute walk to the Nana Station and very central. It's been my go to place for the last several years during the winter months. The lady who owns the building speaks good English and is friendly though does not live on site. Very private with a key card to enter. The rent, plus a-see and cable, is at 27 k bt per month. I generally spend an additional 55-60 k bt Per month for the rest of my expenses, which includes mongering activities. The key for me to keep my budget in line is avoiding the go go bars. I don't like this scene, the loud and bad music, smoky air, largely insincere girls, bar fines, short time prices, etc. And the general hustle and rip offs prevalent. Instead I stick to small bars, sometimes hit the street scene, and on occasion certain discos and night clubs. I used to enjoy the now defunct Bangkok Beat and though no place similar has replaced it, I do like Hilary2 on Soi 4. No barfine, you get to chat with the ladies a bit more to sift through the posers, and most girls there are highly motivated to negotiate and performance overall is pretty good, though stay away from the Vietnamese girls. Some of the news bars on Soi 7 have potential but alas Covid has got in the way to see how that area will turn out.

Some years during the winter months, I have joined the Marriot athletic club on Soi 2. They offer 3 month membership and have a nice pool one would expect from a four star hotel. This past winter, I stumbled across a small hotel on Lai Nert, which had an inexpensive lunch and you could use their pool for free too. Generally, I was the only one at the pool and having lunch unless I brought company.

I usually get a two month visa in my home country for 1200 bt, and then either extend for an additional 30 days at immigration or leave the country for several days before returning for the remainder of my stay. By doing the latter, you save 1800 bt as when you return, if by air, Thailand has a free entry. There are inexpensive flights on Air Asia to Vietnam and Laos, Cambodia So you can easily check out the scene and scenery in another neighboring Country and though drastically different from Bangkok always has interesting aspects to break up my visit.

Having returned four times over the last six years, it makes it easier to find good deals for food and restaurants. Margaritaville in Soi 13 and Suk has good and inexpensive breakfast. Kiwis used to be good too but they have closed. But, there are a multitude of choices and easy to keep food costs under control. I also don't take dates to dinner or lunch. Just find it a waste of time and money. Most girls I meet don't speak English well enough so it's tough to have any kind of meaningful conversation with them in the end.

Anyway, I am retired so you guys who are still working or enjoy fat pensions may be able to spend more freely but for me, it's def cheaper, warmer, and more fun than spending my winters in a cold and inhospitable climate (in more ways than one). But with Covid potentially rearing it's ugly head for many more years, my lifestyle has grounded to an abrupt halt.[/QUOTE]I've recently been planning my retirement and these discussions definitely help.

I don't think I'll need to bone every single day when I retire in a few years (ETA 4 years). So with some self restraint, I can probably retire with about $3500-$4000/ mo (117 k-133 k baht). That's about 27 k on rent, 33 k on food and 56 k-73 k on entertainment. I think I can get about 2 LT per week plus a one or two nuru / FS massages per week. And regular massage every day.

That retirement income is before social security, 401 k, and pension. So the older I get, the more income. The alternative is to push back retirement 5-10 more years and live like Natty. But I believe in enjoying life and women as early as possible. I still might be able to enjoy life like Natty in 10 years when pension kicks in, and more in another 10 when SS /401 k kick in.

It does kind of suck having to exercise self restraint during retirement in a country like Thailand. But I think I'd prefer that to working 5-10 more years.