Manila

[quote=henryv; 1184055]i would respectfully disagree, it is better to come out of your hotel, walk a block or two, then get a cab. you do not want the hotel people to know any more about you than they have to. you do not want a call from the front desk that the mother, brother, aunt, etc, of the bargirl you are with (who is identifying you by your name) is in the lobby.

even when i fish something out of the manila bay cafe i have the girl meet me a block or two from the bar. had a friend hassled by the police when he came out with a gal. albeit it happened only once, but once is enough.[/quote]henry,

i understand your point, but i think the question of involving the hotel doorman in getting a taxi is a case of picking between two poisons. there is the possibility that the doorman picks up on where you are going, especially if he asks you for this information to use in recruiting a taxi. but you don't have to tell him. you can just say,"i'm going to the malate area." (mbc is really in ermita, whereas there are lots of non-prostitution clubs in nearby malate.) then wait to give the specific destination after the cab door is closed. a second problem, which you don't mention, is that doormen do play favorites with cab drivers and sometimes extort tips from them out of sight of the customer based on promises that the passenger is a foreigner who will tip well. and then the cabbie makes a scene at your destination if you don't give an uber-tip. but the reverse issue is trying to hold the cabbie accountable. in the end, the doorman may not be of much help if you later have a problem with a driver, but going through the motions at least creates the impression for the driver that people are watching -- and that the passenger is not such a phils nebbish as to be totally exploitable. getting a cab anywhere in manila--even a block away from the hotel--is always a crap shoot. okay, i confess that i too sometimes walk a short distance from the hotel to get a cab, but not so much out of distrust of the doorman as because i think some dishonest cabbies hang out specifically in front of three-star and lower monger hotels to try to get foreign passengers who are thinking with their little heads. but i know manila very well and i don't hesitate to speak up when a cabbie appears to be going the long way around to run up the meter. i think the taxis available at the entrances to better hotels are more likely to be there at random--having just dropped off another guest--rather than hanging out by design. i could be mistaken.

as to concealing from hotel staff that you are mongering, good luck. remember, as you and the girl are experiencing the walk of shame, the doorman and front counter staff get to watch. and this happens without regard to whether the doorman knows anything about your earlier taxi destination. they know you checked in alone, and then they see you enter and head to the elevator with a young, sexily-dressed pinay. they've seen it many times, and they catch on real fast. and as somebody pointed out in another thread recently, filipinos everywhere have this well-worn bamboo grapevine.

the hotel staff often can connect a name to your face whether you are mongering or not, but if the girl's family knows your name, it's because the girl tells them, not the hotel staff.

i agree with your concern about leaving mbc, but most of these problems involve getting into cabs waiting along the curb by the club. some stories report that the cabbies there are sometimes con artists working with police or fake-police extortionists. many of us have recommended going at least a block away to take a cab. this is the first i've heard of somebody on foot being stopped by police, other than the guy who recently told about being picked up for smoking in public, which is apparently now against the law in manila. perhaps you can tell us the details.

i agree about getting a map. there's a great little book available in most bookstores in manila called the metro manila citiatlas. it's about 5 by 8 inches (you metric guys put up with my system here) and 200 pages and costs maybe 300 pesos. it shows every little street and alley in the metro area and many of the important buildings.

[QUOTE=Inlock; 1184081]I wasn't aware that the "+"-signs wouldn't make it through the clickable link.

I didn't post an additional explanation though, as I figured you were one of the smartest kids around in the class and would have noticed that.[/QUOTE]LOL. Nah I was always in the back row. I think one teacher or another might have used the phrase " idle idiot" LOL

Lots of weird advice here from guys who visit for 2 weeks, stay in a tourist hotel, monger all night and then think they know all about how the Philippines works.

Those of us who live and work here use cabs all the time and deal with filipinos who are just earning an honest buck and who don't fit the stereotype that is frequently portrayed here.

All taxi drivers are NOT scam artists. Many of those who prowl around MBC and Ermita in clapped-out dirty cabs are crooks and will target the obvious monger tourist but elsewhere in Manila more than 95% of them are driving nice new, sweet-smelling cabs and are NOT scammers.

Spend time in places like Ortigas or around the Ayala triangle in Makati and you will meet real filipinos, including cab drivers, who are amongst the most decent people on earth. Visit some of the schools and see absolutely dedicated teachers doing a fantastic job in dreadful crowded conditions and no resources for learning. These people are heroes.

I do not need a car because I have several cab drivers who I can call by cell phone to take me to Tagaytay or across to Intramuros, Ocean Park or anywhere else whenever I have family from Australia or visitors from elsewhere. These guys will wait with me all day and are happy to be a full-time tourist driver for 2000 pesos (around $50) who will take me wherever I want to go.
Again, bad advice is given here by guys who just don't know the real story because they have never done it so they jump to conclusions.

The way some of you portray life here based on your very short and limited microcosm of experience, the Philippines is full of scam artists; all women are prostitutes; most women will fck for money etc etc.

It is not at all like that.

Why else do you think I would give up a senior position in Australia to live and work here for 14 years if it was the hell-hole some of you describe?

[QUOTE=Red Kilt; 1184213]Lots of weird advice here from guys who visit for 2 weeks, stay in a tourist hotel, monger all night and then think they know all about how the Philippines works.

Those of us who live and work here use cabs all the time and deal with filipinos who are just earning an honest buck and who don't fit the stereotype that is frequently portrayed here.

All taxi drivers are NOT scam artists. Many of those who prowl around MBC and Ermita in clapped-out dirty cabs are crooks and will target the obvious monger tourist but elsewhere in Manila more than 95% of them are driving nice new, sweet-smelling cabs and are NOT scammers.

Spend time in places like Ortigas or around the Ayala triangle in Makati and you will meet real filipinos, including cab drivers, who are amongst the most decent people on earth. Visit some of the schools and see absolutely dedicated teachers doing a fantastic job in dreadful crowded conditions and no resources for learning. These people are heroes.

I do not need a car because I have several cab drivers who I can call by cell phone to take me to Tagaytay or across to Intramuros, Ocean Park or anywhere else whenever I have family from Australia or visitors from elsewhere. These guys will wait with me all day and are happy to be a full-time tourist driver for 2000 pesos (around $50) who will take me wherever I want to go.

Again, bad advice is given here by guys who just don't know the real story because they have never done it so they jump to conclusions.

The way some of you portray life here based on your very short and limited microcosm of experience, the Philippines is full of scam artists; all women are prostitutes; most women will fck for money etc etc.

It is not at all like that.

Why else do you think I would give up a senior position in Australia to live and work here for 14 years if it was the hell-hole some of you describe?[/QUOTE]RK, you've been grumpy as hell lately, it's not your style, and it doesn't become you.

I agree with your assessment that most cabbies in the Philippines are decent guys. That said, I can't speak for the other guys in this discussion, but I for one travel to the Phils on business, and my mongering days are a year and a half behind me. My taxi travel in non-mongering areas has been mostly, but not exclusively, good experiences. But the whole point of the taxi discussion has been consistent with your description of the sleazy cab drivers that you admit populate the mongering areas. The point is that Pana NYC's taxi inquiry was about taxis for mongering, not for getting in and out of the business areas of Ortigas Center or Makati. If Pana stays in a high end Makati hotel, then he will get the good drivers you describe, but unless he keeps their phone numbers, he's going to have to deal with the sleazy cabs you describe when he leaves the mongering area. And if he stays in a mongering hotel, he will deal with them in getting away from the hotel. That is the discussion we have been having.

I have not lived in the Phils for 14 years, and in fact never for more than 5 months at a time, but I'd argue that the Filipinos who work in Ortigas and the Ayala triangle are not average Filipinos. I'd bet that most Metro Manila residents have been in the Ayala triangle fewer than a half dozen times in their lives. Some might argue that the p4ps that mongers interact with have more in common with average Filipinos than do those who work in Ortigas and the Ayala triangle.

I might add that you have posted that you do not monger in Manila because you live and work in the city and can't afford to contaminate your personal and professional circles. So when those whose experiences are primarily about mongering describe taxi experiences in their mongering activities, isn't that what Pana was asking about? This was never a discussion about taxis in and out of Ortigas.

I too tire of silly generalizations about the Philippines from those who have never experienced any part of it other than mongering, but in this instance you're putting words in people's mouths that they never uttered. Nobody in the taxi discussion said anything about teachers nor about: "the Philippines is full of scam artists; all women are prostitutes; most women will fck for money etc etc." I don't see D Cups, Henry, or me posting any of those generalizations.

In my case I have been in a relationship with one Filipina for about a year and a half and I do not "monger all night." Nowadays I usually stay in a hotel away from the mongering areas and she joins me there. We do not stay in her place because it's small, offers little privacy for sex, and has only a cold water shower and no aircon. She is not well educated and she is poor by Western standards. She's also attractive, a very warm and loving person, and I'm quite fond of her. She is also probably closer to being a "regular" Filipina than those who work in Ortigas Center or Makati and hold business meetings with Western business visitors in five-star hotels. I have done those meetings.

For reasons I won't explain she and I spent a week in late June at a hotel near the corner of UN Ave. and del Pilar in Ermita. One day she took a cab from near the hotel up to the LRT station at UN and Taft. She called me from the LRT in a very angry mood. She'd just had a very ugly scene with the cab driver. She'd not noticed that he didn't turn the meter on, and when she got out at Taft Avenue he told her the fare was 200 pesos. Yes. 200 pesos from del Pilar to Taft on UN Avenue. He'd seen me and pointed out the price was different because he knew she had a foreign boyfriend. He had also seen me give her money before she got in the cab. So is this one "regular" Filipino to another? Not exactly; the driver was one of the monger area sleazes you described, and she was guilty of being seen with a Westerner. This conversation has been about the problems mongers have with taxis, not whether most Filipinos are good people.

I do not post overly-generalized, negative smears about Filipinos, and I have sometimes defended the Philippines in discussions with GE in other threads. But I'm not so sure examples from Ortigas or the Ayala triangle are very representative of the Philippines that most Filipinos know. On the other hand, your explanation about drying rice on roadways does feel like the real Philippines. I'd be glad to hear more such posts, especially since nobody has posted in the Philippine History and Politics thread since our silly discussion about economic impact research on prostitution. Some of us do read that kind of stuff, and I personally learn from it.

[QUOTE=Skip Kost;1184258]RK, you've been grumpy as hell lately, it's not your style, and it doesn't become you.[/QUOTE]SK

Thanks for your thoughtful post.

I plan to take an extended holiday from ISG.

I am tired of the petty sniping from guys who live overseas 50 weeks of the year and rely on ISG and a few pictures to feed their fantasies until they have saved up enough pesos to come here for the only 2 weeks of fun they have for the whole year.

For the record. I don't wear a red kilt. RK happens to be the name of a horse that my Dad and I raced successfully many years ago.

[QUOTE=Red Kilt; 1184262]SK

Thanks for your thoughtful post.

I plan to take an extended holiday from ISG.

I am tired of the petty sniping from guys who live overseas 50 weeks of the year and rely on ISG and a few pictures to feed their fantasies until they have saved up enough pesos to come here for the only 2 weeks of fun they have for the whole year.[/QUOTE]I think RK, that we all know where most of us stand in terms of knowledge of Philippines (or lack thereof ).

We all know who has the stripes, who is still earning them, and who will never earn them.

The 2 week experts come, and rather like a typhoon, make a lot of noise, and then leave and life settles back into its normal pattern till another one comes in "blowing hard". They are part of the scenery I guess, such is the attraction of Manila on the monger map.

Enjoy the ISG vacation if that whats you feel you need.

I'm having a vacation from the KL board where it seems all I do is rile up the locals, who I believe to be jealous of the scoring that I was able to do there. We all fit somewhere and don't fit in other places.

I'm sure when you return, most of us will all still be here, more adventures will have been posted and tellingly, there will still be some 2 week expert telling us "how it really is " LOL. The welcome mat is always out.

Skip, knowing RK rather well, I doubt that his post was directed at you, DCups and others like you, and I doubt he was reacting to any specific post. I think that most of us who live here, particularly those of us who travel into the interiors of the country (that is the rural areas and small towns) frequently, and who have thus developed a fairly acute sense of what the country is real like, just get fed up with the ill-informed, superficial generalizations made by the "two-week, screw all I can" tourists. Like RK I think, I'm not putting those guys down for what they do while here, but the fact is that hanging out with bar girls, and within that circumscribed world for a couple of weeks doesn't present an accurate picture of the country.

RK and I are in similar occupations, with similar backgrounds and life experiences. We get to see and experience things as a result of our work that most people will never see and many perhaps would not be interested in seeing. We get to see teachers in rural schools struggling to provide a modicum of education against almost impossible odds. We've been invited to share whatever food is available in small, poor subsistence communities and we've been welcomed into the homes and social lives of these communities. In my case, I've gotten to work with ex-combatants whose fight had nothing to do with ideology and everything to do with wanting a bigger share of the pie that had been denied them for so long. I could continue on for pages, but I think the point has been made.

The simple fact is that the scam artists, the cheats, the crooked drivers encountered by so many are a small minority of the population, and not representative of the largely kind, hospitable and gentle people who constitute the majority of this country. That they're able to maintain a relatively benign and compassionate outlook on life in the face of massive government corruption and extreme poverty speaks to a strength of character that's rare. That so many women are forced to sell sexual services speaks less to lack of character than to lack of economic opportunity in a country that offers abysmally poor education and few jobs.

I can't of course speak for RK. I'm just making some assumptions based on my own weariness with those who generalize from a very limited, truly unrepresentative sample.

GE

G. E, RK. Et al,

I couldn't agree more that to lose your valuable input is really kind of the ultimate insult. I don't "live" in the Phils, but have an ongoing serious relationship that takes me to a small town on a regular basis. I also have the opportunity to see the populace in a whole different light than that of the AC, MBC, Cubu bar scene that most of the visitors who come here experience. It is tiresome at best when you read posts that constantly degrade or belittle people that for the most part are just using what ever assets they have to provide something for themselves and their families.

Many of these gals live with the "don't ask, don't tell" policy in their family. The family doesn't really want to know how they get the money, just don't let it stop.

Having said that, to let these few keep the collective "you" from sharing experiences and knowledge that make a trip to the Philippines the unique opportunity that it is, makes me sad.

I have benefitted greatly from you wisdom and insight and hope to continue to do so in the future. I hope that will continue."don't let the bastards get you down"!

Redkilt, I understand your frustration. Unfortunately in a forum this happens in every country. I've been to the Philippines just once recently and will be going back again in a month. I thought my cabbie was one of the best guys I met, he was certainly a better guy than a lot of the ones I saw representing the US. The only thing that sickened me about the country was the children sleeping on the sidewalks in the street. Other than that the differences between there and Chicago are slight. I expected to get a shake down by police, robbed and taken to some abandon warehouse by a cab, catch an STD from every girl I slept with, fortunately for me I take everything said in the forums with a grain of salt because they say the same things about other third world countries. I had girls get mad at me for giving them money. 2 hot girls at Palladium got mad at me for giving them money for drinks. Seriously it was the weirdest thing, went to restroom and the girls wanted drinks so I gave them 1000 and said here get it from the waitress when she comes back I've got to use the bathroom. I get back and two girls that were like flies around me were both pissed at me, luckily one told me why. They were offended that I gave them the money and said they are not like that. I was tired and didn't want to bother with the drama so I just went to bed. Anyway Red I can understand your feelings, I hate the overly cautious warnings guys saying don't take more than 1000PHP with you, enjoy your time there it's a great place with great people. I always kept 12, 000PHP on me, wore my rolex everywhere, and the only problem I had was some douche bag wanting a tip for opening my door at MBC to my cab, I seriously wanted to knock the guy out considering he pushed me aside to open the door of a taxi which I flagged down. Well that and getting robbed at Diamond hotel, they charged $400 for one frickin night because I just showed up without a reservation, lesson learned!

[QUOTE=Madisonguy;1184335]Well that and getting robbed at Diamond hotel, they charged $400 for one frickin night because I just showed up without a reservation, lesson learned![/QUOTE]Yikes! Next time they try that, find a nearby internet cafe or even a kiosk in that hotel, log onto agoda, and reserve a superior room right then and there for $107 and print it out. You can then walk back to registration with the reservation coupon and a smile.

Damn forum just gobbled up another of my much too long posts, so I will abbreviate. That's probably for the better.

I greatly appreciate contributions from others with the experience and understanding to be able to put otherwise mindless sex with poor Philippine women into cultural context. Filipinas are, as various contributors have said, among the most affectionate and loving women in the world. I wouldn't give up my partner for anything in the world, and my experiences totally contradict the statements of some who continually want to denigrate Filipinas.

Many of us learn things in this forum that go far beyond the question of finding and fucking women in Manila, which somebody will soon point out is the purpose of this thread. Sex with young attractive Third World women always occurs within a backdrop of culture, history, politics, and socio-economic conditions, and to not want to hear that is, in my view, on par with wanting to burn down the library at Alexandria because its contents are seen as a threat.

Even in such disparate illustrations as those that RK gave about his taxi experiences and those that others offered about monger area taxis, there's a lot of information for those who are thoughtful enough to see what the contrasts illustrate.

RK, I meant to get your attention, not scold you. If I went too far, I apologize. You have made many thoughtful and informative contributions to the forum that I have appreciated. I understand that you presently can't justify the marginal individual benefits of continuing to participate here when held up against the frustrations of mindless and insulting content in some members' posts. You may give yourself some peace of mind by extricating yourself, but we will suffer a collective loss if you decide to do so. Thank you.

I agree with the views expressed by some residents that not all the inhabitants of the Philippines are scammers, murders, thieves, prostitutes and opportunists out to fleece foreigners. However, the forum describes experiences of visitors to the Philippines through the prism of sex tourism. The sex tourist will have an experience that is very different to that of the expat with a square job or business outside of the sex tourism centers. Behaviors will vary too. Most sex tourists meet Filipinas online with the intention of eventually meeting and having sex with them. This is not a secret to local opportunists and criminals hence they flock to these online sites in the hopes of relieving the aspiring sex tourists of their money. From the start the sex tourist is more likely to meet con artists because of his method of meeting people and the fact that sex is already clouding his judgment. Mongers also love to find accommodations close to or within easy reach of commercial sex venues. Criminals and crooked taxi drivers know this and troll these areas in the hopes of catching some starry eyed sex tourist and fleecing him of his hard currency. Mongers associate mainly with women driven by financial desperation to sell sex outright or under the guise of a girlfriend needing a favor. In an environment of extreme poverty unsavory individuals congregate around these women and the establishments they frequent in the hopes of getting piece of the action directly or indirectly. These individuals can range from boyfriends, relatives, pimps, trike and taxi drivers, all the way up to policemen. So, it is not unusual or unreasonable for the average sex tourist to feel under siege or even hunted. While this may not reflect Philippine society as a whole it is a fairly accurate description of the sex tourist experience. The distrust and extreme caution may actually be keeping mongers safe as they venture into sex tourism venues and rendezvous with random strangers for sexual intercourse.

[QUOTE=Chocha Monger;1184397]I agree with the views expressed by some residents that not all the inhabitants of the Philippines are scammers, murders, thieves, prostitutes and opportunists out to fleece foreigners. However, the forum describes experiences of visitors to the Philippines through the prism of sex tourism. The sex tourist will have an experience that is very different to that of the expat with a square job or business outside of the sex tourism centers. Behaviors will vary too. Most sex tourists meet Filipinas online with the intention of eventually meeting and having sex with them. This is not a secret to local opportunists and criminals hence they flock to these online sites in the hopes of relieving the aspiring sex tourists of their money. From the start the sex tourist is more likely to meet con artists because of his method of meeting people and the fact that sex is already clouding his judgment. Mongers also love to find accommodations close to or within easy reach of commercial sex venues. Criminals and crooked taxi drivers know this and troll these areas in the hopes of catching some starry eyed sex tourist and fleecing him of his hard currency. Mongers associate mainly with women driven by financial desperation to sell sex outright or under the guise of a girlfriend needing a favor. In an environment of extreme poverty unsavory individuals congregate around these women and the establishments they frequent in the hopes of getting piece of the action directly or indirectly. These individuals can range from boyfriends, relatives, pimps, trike and taxi drivers, all the way up to policemen. So, it is not unusual or unreasonable for the average sex tourist to feel under siege or even hunted. While this may not reflect Philippine society as a whole it is a fairly accurate description of the sex tourist experience. The distrust and extreme caution may actually be keeping mongers safe as they venture into sex tourism venues and rendezvous with random strangers for sexual intercourse.[/QUOTE]Very insightful and, I think, pretty accurate. And, knowing the contrasting experiences and realities of "regular" life in the Philippines makes it more understandable. Sex tourism has a set of unique dynamics that are part of a broader set of cultural and social dynamics.

Thought there would be little harm in adding my two pence as my heart bleeds for those members who live in country and have to put up with those all those pesky 2 week a year sex tourists who apparently only encounter the darkside in their ruthless search for Pinay gash bash.

I live in Manila for several months of each year (the good weather months). Whilst in town I am a regular and, I think, fairly useful contributor to this forum as I document my pussy hunting adventures around town. When out of country, I rarely view let alone contribute to this forum. What is the point as I would have little in the way of useful, up-to-date mongering insights to offer?

This does not prevent me from contributing to the home forum of wherever I may be living or visiting at the time (see my recent report of the remarkable Lady Marmalade Parties).

To some this hobby is an expedient (only way to get it), to others a conduit (looking for something and naive or foolish enough to believe that third world phookers can provide). There is a third varietal which is the pure cocksman who is in it purely for the sport. They tend to be the most interesting of ISG members and produce the majority of the real reports.

All three categories are found on ISG. Also commonly encountered are the non/rare players (maybe ex-pat, married or in a serious relationship, shit scared of fucking up but sorely missing their active days) who view the forum as an outlet. They are often the backbone of the threads and are sometimes great entertainment but offer little in the way of real useable insight into the mongering potential of a destination.

What group are you in? Or have I missed a category?

[QUOTE=Cunning Stunt;1184422]Thought there would be little harm in adding my two pence as my heart bleeds for those members who live in country and have to put up with those all those pesky 2 week a year sex tourists who apparently only encounter the darkside in their ruthless search for Pinay gash bash.[/QUOTE]Thanks for your sympathy CS, it is indeed a heavy burden to bear.

There is, I think another category of guys among the permanent residents here, and for want of a better term, I call them "opportunists," in which category I would likely include myself. These are guys who have relatively "normal" lives here; get up and go to work every day, come home to dinner and a glass of wine in the evening, and who are probably sustaining long-term relationships that they enjoy. They are not proactive, and thus rarely look for extra curricular sexual opportunity, but are not averse to taking advantage of it if it presents itself, and it does tend to present itself here with a certain amount of consistent regularity. These are guys who have become habituated to the endless supply side of the equation to the extent that it has become more or less background noise and they typically don't pay much attention to it.

It's been my experience that the expats who actually work here, and who have thus made the country their home, strive for a reasonable degree of Western "normalcy" in their lives. To succumb to the endless supply of young, attractive women risks jeopardizing the normalcy and allowing one's life to go slightly off the rails. That is to risk losing one's center. If I were to immerse myself in the endless chances for screwing that exist here, I would severely weaken my ability to do my job every day, thus threatening my livelihood. I think it's much the same for many of us, or at least for many whom I know. That's the reason that so many of us have adapted a more traditional lifestyle to the context of this country.

GE