General Reports

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1841157]You have received the female perspective. Where she is thinking of a committment, not just a one off thing. She doesn't want to admit that could mean money. However the girl in question is not rich. Sooner or later she will need your financial support on some way as well. All Thai girls do. Its then just a question of degree.[/QUOTE]Of course I received the female perspective because that is the gender that the phrase I was questioning originates from. That is why I asked what females mean when they say. I did not ask what males think females mean. A male "perspective" would only be an assumption or interpretation. I could have given my own assumption without bothering the board about it and been wrong. But I wanted to consult and see what experience or info others had gathered during their Thailand times. Why would she not want to admit that it could mean money had that been the case? Do you think they can psychologically or subliminally extract money from me without verbalizing it? I don't just go around passing out money to chicks on the sole basis that we are fucking, unless I know her to be a prostitute.

I disagree that Thai girls will sooner or later need a guy's financial support. I have dealt with a myriad of women here in Thailand and the ones who are not known hookers I have not given 1 baht. And some of those I am still involved with years down the road. And some that I have cut off are still trying to get back in with me. My present girlfriend did not even have a job when I met her 8 months ago and she has never asked me for anything. No birthday gift, no valentines gift, no buy her something to eat, no nothing. Yet she is right here sleeping with her arm around me as she will do everynight if I allow it. The only thing I ever bought her was a tablet and she didn't want that.

I hurt my foot back in September and she took care of me very well while I was incapacitated. Since I met her she would always be reading books on her small ass phone so I thought a good gift to give her would be a tablet so she could enjoy reading more comfortably.

I wanted to surprise her with the tablet so I told her that I would go to the doctor alone that day. But she would not have it. She insisted on taking me as she did everyday since I hurt my foot on the scuba diving boat in Koh Tao. We left the doctor and went to Tukcom where I negotiated for the tablet in front of her, getting her opinion on it and the case. Hell she even heard the lady ask if I wanted it set up in English or Thai and I said Thai. I went upstairs and bought a 64GB memory card then we walked next door to True Move.

I gave the tablet to my girl and told her to set up an internet plan for it while I sat in the wings. She put it in her name and paid her own money to set it up and came back and told me she put the better plan for 400 baht on it. Hell I figured by then she KNEW it was for her. When we got to my place I told her to go ahead and connect the tablet to the wifi to put programs on it so as not to use up the data allotment. She said why do I need to do that? It is not for me. I could not stop laughing. I said it IS for you.

A guy that I know here told me that before choosing a serious chick to make sure that woman is totally down with you and not out to get money. It seems that most guys are total opposite and begin throwing money at Thai women as soon as they meet them. This is where they go wrong. Once you start off one way with a woman you can't come later and change your pattern. Pavlov even taught you that with his dogs. You ring that bell the dogs expect to eat; you ring a Thai woman's phone she expects you will give her money. You have been giving her money every week so she will start depending on that and come to expect it. You cut that off and she is likely to cut you off.

But anyway. My buddy said he met his girl and they were kicking it a while. When he decided to get serious with her, he had to put her to the test. He acted sick for a few months. Even to the point where the girl would have to wipe his ass for him. Friends would come over laughing and about to blow his cover. Some time after he was satisfied with the results of that test he decided to run another test and acted like he was out of money. His girl said that is okay baby I will go get a job. His girl went and got a job and started paying all the bills not complaining at all. When he was satisfied with the results of that test he went and married her and they have been together ever since.

So from my own experience as well as other people who I have come in contact with experiences, I totally disagree that sooner or later you will have to give a Thai woman financial support. Now if you are choosing women off of stripper poles that are 1/3 your age then of course that will be the case. If you start out paying them you can't reasonably expect them to continue on if you stop paying them. How do you figure the woman made it through life her how many ever years without you supporting her financially? Hell, she worked to earn her keep just like every other able-bodied person on this earth should be expected to do.

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1840892]Having a GF is not value for money on a per fuck basis, I have found.[/QUOTE]If the only purpose of your GF was to fuck and you are giving her money then I guess not. You could just as well say that owning a car is not value for money on a per ride basis because it is way cheaper to take the bus. How many people would go out and ditch their car on this factor alone?

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;1841323]If the only purpose of your GF was to fuck and you are giving her money then I guess not. You could just as well say that owning a car is not value for money on a per ride basis because it is way cheaper to take the bus. How many people would go out and ditch their car on this factor alone?[/QUOTE]If sex is the major part of a relationship it will surely fail. I agree with both of you. Having a GF is not value for money if all you are interested in is sex. If that is the case you are better off with P4 P. The sex fades; it always does. So what are you left with? If you make a smart choice then you are with someone you are compatible with, have fun with, and enjoy being around. A relationship where you give each other space as well. Sex is really far down the list. I would never choose a GF based on sex.

I have a general bar girl strategy question / "tell me if I am doing it wrong" question. This pertains to my Phuket visit in December but really the question is general. I went as a newbie to Thailand, so I wasn't sure if my strategy was good or not.

I went to this cluster of bars, maybe with Tiger written in front, and I guess I was persuaded by the bar girl team to have a drink there. I was looking to, and so therefore I sat in and was joined by this one girl. I thought she was pretty and reminded me of Michaela Conlin on Bones, though she wasn't a stunner by any means (but pretty and attractive for me). I bought her a drink and she was smiling, etc. We played some of those games for a while. I might have bought her a second drink. I don't remember. I always had a hand on her back / lap, etc. But I found that she didn't for a moment reciprocate. I had made a rule of sorts then that if I was given no encouragement, then I wouldn't barfine that girl. I stuck to it and after a while, around 1 AM, said I was off. She / Mamasan acted surprised that I was going off now instead of barfining her (because I probably did look interested). Then I took off.

Now, I understand it's a judgment call, people make strategies for themselves, revise them as they go along, etc. , and different strokes for different folks, etc. But, if you had to, would you say it was probably the right or the wrong call? How to more explicitly gauge girl interest (don't want an unwilling starfish)? I'm not in the best shape these days and so, even though they are really doing it just for the money, I want to make sure that she might be somewhat of a willing partner.

I'm strongly considering going to Pattaya for up to a week in March, and truth be told, my Phuket visit didn't turn out too well. So, that's why I am considering if I was going about it the wrong way.

Any comments appreciated!

[QUOTE=Maila;1841569]Now, I understand it's a judgment call, people make strategies for themselves, revise them as they go along, etc. , and different strokes for different folks, etc. But, if you had to, would you say it was probably the right or the wrong call? How to more explicitly gauge girl interest (don't want an unwilling starfish)? [/QUOTE]The girl is not there to be interested. The girl is there to get money. You never know what you have until you get her back to the room. You may have thought she would not be good because she was not all over you in the bar. Well one school of thought says that an empty wagon makes the most noise. I am sure every guy has had the girl who is all crunk at the club or the bar but when you get her alone you wonder where that girl went and who the girl is that switched places with her. Use all the strategies and methods you want to. There is only way to tell what will be, and that is to get her back to the room. You will win some and you will lose some. Just have fun playing the game.

[QUOTE=Maila;1841569]I always had a hand on her back / lap, etc. But I found that she didn't for a moment reciprocate. I had made a rule of sorts then that if I was given no encouragement, then I wouldn't barfine that girl. I stuck to it and after a while, around 1 AM, said I was off. She / Mamasan acted surprised that I was going off now instead of barfining her (because I probably did look interested). Then I took off.

Now, I understand it's a judgment call, people make strategies for themselves, revise them as they go along, etc. , and different strokes for different folks, etc. But, if you had to, would you say it was probably the right or the wrong call? How to more explicitly gauge girl interest (don't want an unwilling starfish)? I'm not in the best shape these days and so, even though they are really doing it just for the money, I want to make sure that she might be somewhat of a willing partner.

I'm strongly considering going to Pattaya for up to a week in March, and truth be told, my Phuket visit didn't turn out too well. So, that's why I am considering if I was going about it the wrong way.

Any comments appreciated![/QUOTE]My vote is you made the right call. It is one I wish I had made many times over but didn't. lol. Sure, there is always the possibility that some lackluster, non-reciprocating, non-affectionate girl in a bar will turn out to be the most loving and responsive partner you ever had when you get her alone in the room. But the likelihood of a Jekyll and Hyde transformation in THAT direction happening is very slim. Jekyll and Hyde transformations in the OTHER direction are almost commonplace. But the other way around? I wouldn't waste another minute thinking that is what I just missed out on. Her body language was giving you volumes of information whether she wanted it to or not.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;1840868]The girl that is in bed with me right now does not have the square shoulders that many in those pictures had.[/QUOTE]Ah, poor baby! Looks like she is not going to leave. She seems like she will be your LT GF. Better give her a spare key man!

Now, I understand your hair cleanup detail. Anyways, Mr. ENT you rock! .

Interesting!

Your logic sounds pretty good. Perhaps it can be tried at least once. However I'm a newbie as well & I've decided to go to any club with an open mind. I'll just put my requirements in front of the girl (each & everything precisely) & any girl who I like and falls under my requirement will be barfined by me for the night. With mongering it's always a risk to choose a girl who matches your mindset, but you have to take the risk unless you want to repeat the same girl who already have matched your needs.

I'm also traveling in March to Pattaya. We both could meet & monger together with some plans / goals to understand the experiments more accurately. .

[QUOTE=Maila;1841569]I have a general bar girl strategy question / "tell me if I am doing it wrong" question. This pertains to my Phuket visit in December but really the question is general. I went as a newbie to Thailand, so I wasn't sure if my strategy was good or not.

I went to this cluster of bars, maybe with Tiger written in front, and I guess I was persuaded by the bar girl team to have a drink there. I was looking to, and so therefore I sat in and was joined by this one girl. I thought she was pretty and reminded me of Michaela Conlin on Bones, though she wasn't a stunner by any means (but pretty and attractive for me). I bought her a drink and she was smiling, etc. We played some of those games for a while. I might have bought her a second drink. I don't remember. I always had a hand on her back / lap, etc. But I found that she didn't for a moment reciprocate. I had made a rule of sorts then that if I was given no encouragement, then I wouldn't barfine that girl. I stuck to it and after a while, around 1 AM, said I was off. She / Mamasan acted surprised that I was going off now instead of barfining her (because I probably did look interested). Then I took off...[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;1841312]


I gave the tablet to my girl and told her to set up an internet plan for it while I sat in the wings. She put it in her name and paid her own money to set it up and came back and told me she put the better plan for 400 baht on it. Hell I figured by then she KNEW it was for her. When we got to my place I told her to go ahead and connect the tablet to the wifi to put programs on it so as not to use up the data allotment. She said why do I need to do that? It is not for me. I could not stop laughing. I said it IS for you.

[/QUOTE]Well, Mr ENT now I know why some of your girls show up unannounced or your apt security thinks they are your GF!

I have learned through experience that however much I love being a generous guy, sometimes it is wrongly interpreted. A couple of examples from the past 2 years.

1. I had this really cute girl in Lima who I'd spent some time with and last time almost a month. The second time around I brought her a laptop (along with some fabrics specific colors etc she wanted because her mom is great at making her custom dresses). Anyways, she didn't want the laptop because she was fine with her older one. But, she wanted me to buy her shoes. I did that too (and returned the laptop at Best Buy on my return). Great, beautiful chick. But, after that she went around telling some other girls (friends and one of her cousins) that I was going to propose to her! God knows where she got that into her head, but I think girls day dream based on emotional response to stimuli from us. Well, I had to dial back real fast!

2. A couple of other stories from Puerto Plata. One cute, college girl I had been to Lifestyle resort with for a few days and then ended up spending like at least 10 total days of my 5 week visit. She was great and really, really nice. She has a kid and so I would always give her dineros (never asked and never discussed as I met her on Cupid). Anyways, over the 10 days, in addition to Lifestyle, I maybe gave her at least 20 k DR pesos, plus some other gifts like earrings, perfumes etc from the USA. One day she asks if her cousin can come to the pool and I say ok, and sure enough when the cousin arrives, she introduces me as her novio!! I'm thinking to myself, wow! How did that happen? Again, I think girls imagine what they want and then it is kind of like filling in the blanks on their own.

A few other stories very similar, well, at least 3 more in the past 2 years and I always get concerned about setting false expectations.

Funny thing, in Sao Paulo last month, a girl from a prive, beautiful, blond, 20, decides to come with me for the night to my hotel after her prive closes. By the next morning, she is already trying to pick stuff off my chest (blackhead or something). I have seen that before. When they think that really like you long term, they kinda get an image in their own mind, and often one of the clues for me is when they want to pick on something from my back, shoulder, face etc. Like some in the animal kingdom do. Even birds, chimps etc. And then, she sets my up iPhone on whatsapp and plugs her contact stuff in and then she starts whatspping me in between her customers at the prive, when she is working. To me these are all warning signs of where I feel I need to pull back or clearly reset expectations. I mean, really fun girl. Bubbly, great personality. Super Fun ! But still, you can tell when they like you and THEY want and EXPECT more. It's a darn double- edged sword man !

IF I don't, and continue after these cues or signals from the girls (and none were over 22, and I'm in my 50's and speak very few words of Spanish or Portuguese ) , then I think I have allowed false expectations to set in. So, I am now learning. BTW, I like to dance, pretty intensely, And, oftentimes, I think this is where the next day or few days later, they think they have moved on to a new level with me, when from POV, it's a normal thing for me and nothing unique or ground breaking.

The point of all this is to say that sometimes things go unsaid. Chicks draw their own conclusions about you. They imagine things (particularly at say the age of 20,21 or 22). So, now I am ever watchful for those cues and signals and careful to pull back or reset quickly or just move on totally. FWIW. YMMV.

[QUOTE=EihTooms;1841644]My vote is you made the right call. It is one I wish I had made ... giving you volumes of information whether she wanted it to or not.[/QUOTE]I was thinking that, you know, if that was reflective of how all physical contact will be? I just thought I'd cut my losses.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;1841577]The girl is not there to be interested.... You will win some and you will lose some. Just have fun playing the game.[/QUOTE]But, yes, Mr Enternational, you are right too. No way to know how exactly it will go. Thank you for your input.

On a related note, I've often left a bar if I was done with the girl I was sitting with. What do people do / say to get her to leave, so that you can focus your energy on someone else?

[QUOTE=Maila;1841569]But I found that she didn't for a moment reciprocate. I had made a rule of sorts then that if I was given no encouragement, then I wouldn't barfine that girl. I stuck to it and after a while, around 1 AM, said I was off. She / Mamasan acted surprised that I was going off now instead of barfining her (because I probably did look interested). Then I took off.

Now, I understand it's a judgment call, people make strategies for themselves, revise them as they go along, etc. , and different strokes for different folks, etc. But, if you had to, would you say it was probably the right or the wrong call? How to more explicitly gauge girl interest (don't want an unwilling starfish)? I'm not in the best shape these days and so, even though they are really doing it just for the money, I want to make sure that she might be somewhat of a willing partner.
[/QUOTE]Very tough question, but most likely you were right. In the end, you have to judge if their is any real chemistry. I have insisted on taking gorgeous girls that were acting reluctant in the past and found they were a disaster. So sometimes you have to take notice of a feeling that she doesn't really want to, or there is just no connection.

I have also taken girls with apparently okay Chemistry and touching levels that were crappy on the bed.

Please bear in mind that some girls are incredibly shy, and do not know how to act like they want you in public. She could have been a newbie and not used to it. Most girls are taking on a somewhat submissive role anyway, it and it certainly costs them customers. Girls that act raunchy and like want to be fucked, get more customers, even if those girls are ugly. Men seem to just like a girl that comes on to them, even if it's very fake. I am not so susceptible to that type of girl.

Please bear in mind that a very shy girl in public, can become a tiger on the bed, especially after a couple of tequilas to loosen up her control.

Hopefully you can learn to assess if chemistry is missing and the girl is really stand offish or the girl is too shy too cuddle up a bit. I would have thought the later should be rare in the modern day. Even if a girl sits on my lap to get drinks from me, it is no evidence of a real chemistry. I don't really recall much girls that don't want to touch me at all. I even get big hugs from the waitress who clearly isn't going to fuck me, but just because we are good to each other. I have been touched in the crotch area by both girls and some waitresses ( I suppose usually after a few drinks to make them frisky).

I suppose you can ask her what she feels about you. At least can see if she suggests to barfine her. If she does not suggest it, that is not a good sign, for me.

However, look there are always special reasons. The girl could be having her period, She may be intending to be at a friends birthday celebration in 1 hour from now. Her pussy may be out of action. Her regular customer may be due at the bar already but is late in arriving.

Talk to the girl. Don't be left guessing too much. If her personality and overall impression is not convincing, I have no problem to call some other girl over for a drink as well. In the end I might not BF either of them. If the first girl does not gel with me, I don't necessarily feel the need to leave and go to another bar. I just continue my hunting. Meeting a girl has no ties. Some guys talk about loss of face, but I think this is ridiculous. There is never any guarantee that any two people just meeting for the first time will feel the right level of chemistry and trust.

In my opinion, by all means entertain more than one girl, and see which one has the best feel or connection.

[QUOTE=Haven123;1841768]One day she asks if her cousin can come to the pool and I say ok, and sure enough when the cousin arrives, she introduces me as her novio!! I'm thinking to myself, wow! How did that happen?
[/QUOTE]What did you expect? That she would have introduced you to her cousin as a guy she hardly knows but that fucks her for money?

[QUOTE=Syzygies;1842059]Very tough question..... In my opinion, by all means entertain more than one girl, and see which one has the best feel or connection.[/QUOTE]Thank you for that in-depth discussion. It's good know of other people's thoughts. I think there's something to be said for experience. I've found I'd rather be with a girl who's interested and gives good service vs gorgeous aloof girls who just want it over with (the word 'optifuck' from the German subforum comes to mind).

I finally booked my ticket and have cancellable reservations at VT6 and Intimate Hotel, so I need to say yea and nay to one of each, and I should be there in two weeks. Probably have a nasty flight. Going the wrong way around with a long layover. I was hoping the jet lag will mean I can be up easily at night and sleep during the day, which should work out fine.

Anyway, hopefully it will be a good week-long break. I'm booked for 7 nights, so I get some time to practice and enjoy.

[QUOTE=Maila;1841569]I have a general bar girl strategy question / "tell me if I am doing it wrong" question. This pertains to my Phuket visit in December but really the question is general. I went as a newbie to Thailand, so I wasn't sure if my strategy was good or not.


..'[/QUOTE]You never know until after you are in bed with them. I have had a few who exhibited no physical touching who turned out to give a near-GFE. Then I have had ones who were funny, attentive, all touchy, kissy and feely who turned out to be star fish. So, some girls are shy in public but will come out of their shell in your room. Others have learned they can get more business if they come on strong, showing how they really feel about you only after the deal is done back in your room.

You simply cannot know in advance.

If you like the looks of the girl and think you can get off even if she just lies there, then if you are happy with the price, go ahead and take her home. You may be pleasantly surprised. But if you think you will feel disappointed if you don't get a GFE from her, then it would be best to move on. You only have your gut to go by, and trying to second guess your decision now is pointless.

[QUOTE=FLHawk;1842713]You never know until after you are in bed with them. I have had a few who exhibited no physical touching who turned out to give a near-GFE. Then I have had ones who were funny, attentive, all touchy, kissy and feely who turned out to be star fish. So, some girls are shy in public but will come out of their shell in your room. Others have learned they can get more business if they come on strong, showing how they really feel about you only after the deal is done back in your room.

You simply cannot know in advance.

If you like the looks of the girl and think you can get off even if she just lies there, then if you are happy with the price, go ahead and take her home. You may be pleasantly surprised. But if you think you will feel disappointed if you don't get a GFE from her, then it would be best to move on. You only have your gut to go by, and trying to second guess your decision now is pointless.[/QUOTE]Thank you, FL Hawk for your insight. I've been reading your posts since you first went to Phuket / Pattaya and they have provided me with a lot of useful knowledge. I'm not so much second-guessing myself now since that was months ago. I'm just wondering what I want to do (differently?) in 2 weeks when I'll be there. I think I've received some good feedback from both sides. Much appreciated!