Jakarta

i popped into d's for a quickie (drink) on the way home from work the other night. i noticed the door of the vip room was propped open and all the lights were on inside. thinking this odd i mentioned it to the bar maid, she replied that it was because of a police raid, i asked her when the raid was and she replied "later tonight". you really have got to love a town where the peelers give advance notice to the knocking shops that there will be a raid.

speaking of d's, surely i can't be the only one who has impure thoughts about the mother / daughter team of waitresses? they could easily pass for sisters and are as sexy as all get out. unfortunately as the older lady is the missus of one of d's owners (lucky bar steward) i am pretty certain that is one particular sick fantasy i won't be fulfilling, but a man can dream can't he?

I was in Jarkata last week visit Hotel Travel and Classic Terminal a few time, I find girl attuide is down from last yr price is the same as last yr 350k but girl are more pushy on tip than before the last girl at hotel travel is so pushy she will not open the door unless I tip her.

Fast Eddie 48

[QUOTE=John Marigold99;1531961]You remember US$1 = Rp65, 000? I don't think so. In 1995-96 the Rupiah traded at about Rp2, 300 per USD. The Asian currency crisis in 1997-98 severely affected the Thai Baht and the Rupiah. In June 1998, the Rp hit bottom at Rp16, 800. It has never come close to Rp65, 000.[/QUOTE]To John Marigold 99.

Many Indonesia businessman I talk to think they will have another bank and enconomy crsis the next few yr not as bad as the one in 1998, after the riot in Jarkata the Rp hit bottom and I remember the government reissue new currency I have to go to the bank to exhange my old currency.

Fast Eddie 48

Talk about money. The continuous price rises in the most popular bars (blok M, CJ's, Bats) can be a bit hard to watch for long term Indonesian visitors like myself.

As an example. Just a few years ago, ST prices in the bars of Blok M ranged from 300k to 350k. I was happy with that. Then it became 500. Still ok. But I found myself negotiating it back to 400k every time, as it takes less than an hour to spill my yoghurt, and 500k I found a price to be inflated by tourism.

But then came the IDR depreciation, late last year. 2013. The Indonesian account balance was in trouble and at exactly the same time, ST prices jumped up to 700k.

Now, inflation and cost of living have remained stable over the time period. Showing tourism being the main factor to drive ST price hikes.

Either visitors (tourists) coming to Jakarta do not have much of a clue about the current rates or they convert to their own currencies. It must be that.

Because, if I go out to either Jakarta's North, West or East and pick up a freelancer there, prices have remained the same, give or take 50k, for about the last 10 years.

The other week, I was in the back alleys of KaliJodo. Historically, one of the oldest, if not the oldest, monger area in Jakarta. Not entirely safe, but I love being there. It is a completely local scene. No tourists. And a freelancer over there, still charges the same as about 10 years ago. Same quality, but about a third of the new, blok M price.

How much tourism has taken hold of mongering Jakarta, was shown a while back here in the forum. A guy posted that he had paid 250k for a freelancer. Being considered stingy, he got flamed for that. By many.

So even here, when it comes to pricing, most still don't understand what they are talking about. Anyway, I go to blok M for drinks only nowadays. Enjoy Jakarta.

[QUOTE=Joel Goodsen; 1533869]Because, if I go out to either Jakarta's North, West or East and pick up a freelancer there, prices have remained the same, give or take 50k, for about the last 10 years.

The other week, I was in the back alleys of KaliJodo. Historically, one of the oldest, if not the oldest, monger area in Jakarta. Not entirely safe, but I love being there. It is a completely local scene. No tourists. And a freelancer over there, still charges the same as about 10 years ago. Same quality, but about a third of the new, blok M price.

How much tourism has taken hold of mongering Jakarta, was shown a while back here in the forum. A guy posted that he had paid 250k for a freelancer. Being considered stingy, he got flamed for that. By many.

So even here, when it comes to pricing, most still don't understand what they are talking about. Anyway, I go to blok M for drinks only nowadays. Enjoy Jakarta.[/QUOTE]Couldn't agree more, when I first went to Marabaya on the 6th Floor 10 years ago, it was Rp 300, 000 for an hour, nowadays it's what 500, 000, 550, 000? Plus tips and over priced beer that's beginning to be a serious chunk of change for a place that's barely had lick of paint in all that time and where quite a few of the same girls who serviced me back then are still working there.

Meanwhile my freelancers who I use to recruit other girls from North and West Jakarta are still looking for pretty much the same as they have over the past six or seven years, and as Joel says that's because they aren't servicing bules.

Someone's messing with the market chaps.

[QUOTE=Joel Goodsen; 1533869]Talk about money. The continuous price rises in the most popular bars (blok M, CJ's, Bats) can be a bit hard to watch for long term Indonesian visitors like myself.

As an example. Just a few years ago, ST prices in the bars of Blok M ranged from 300k to 350k. I was happy with that. Then it became 500. Still ok. But I found myself negotiating it back to 400k every time, as it takes less than an hour to spill my yoghurt, and 500k I found a price to be inflated by tourism.

But then came the IDR depreciation, late last year. 2013. The Indonesian account balance was in trouble and at exactly the same time, ST prices jumped up to 700k..[/QUOTE]When I first drank in TopGun the girls would ask for Rp50 000 LT and 1 US$ was about 2800 RP. I was a combination of 23 years old, niave and stingy so saw no reason to pay. Pentagon bar was over the road where later on the rich girls would be looking for bule meat anyway.

Last year on a trip to Jakarta I realised it was 21 years since I last pulled in TopGun so decided to reward myself a present from there. With low expectations of the quality and the fact that some of the girls were still in residence from 21 years ago (bought them soft drinks) I was actually quite impressed by the quality (about 9pm).

Took out a Sundanese lass, very good manners so went to a Sports bar in Menteng to catch some football. She'd been working hard in the Japanese bars south of the blok m bus station and fancied a change of work venue. No complaints about her service and attention to detail after the match. As she got ready to leave the hotel room I thought shit what's the going rate for this. As I'm now old enough to understand these girls need the money. I offered Rp 600 000 as a guess. She gave me back RP 100 000 and said 1/2 mill was cukup.

[QUOTE=Joel Goodsen; 1533869]Talk about money. The continuous price rises in the most popular bars (blok M, CJ's, Bats) can be a bit hard to watch for long term Indonesian visitors like myself.

As an example. Just a few years ago, ST prices in the bars of Blok M ranged from 300k to 350k. I was happy with that. Then it became 500. Still ok. But I found myself negotiating it back to 400k every time, as it takes less than an hour to spill my yoghurt, and 500k I found a price to be inflated by tourism.

But then came the IDR depreciation, late last year. 2013. The Indonesian account balance was in trouble and at exactly the same time, ST prices jumped up to 700k.

Now, inflation and cost of living have remained stable over the time period. Showing tourism being the main factor to drive ST price hikes.

Either visitors (tourists) coming to Jakarta do not have much of a clue about the current rates or they convert to their own currencies. It must be that.

Because, if I go out to either Jakarta's North, West or East and pick up a freelancer there, prices have remained the same, give or take 50k, for about the last 10 years.

The other week, I was in the back alleys of KaliJodo. Historically, one of the oldest, if not the oldest, monger area in Jakarta. Not entirely safe, but I love being there. It is a completely local scene. No tourists. And a freelancer over there, still charges the same as about 10 years ago. Same quality, but about a third of the new, blok M price.

How much tourism has taken hold of mongering Jakarta, was shown a while back here in the forum. A guy posted that he had paid 250k for a freelancer. Being considered stingy, he got flamed for that. By many.

So even here, when it comes to pricing, most still don't understand what they are talking about. Anyway, I go to blok M for drinks only nowadays. Enjoy Jakarta.[/QUOTE]To Joel Goodsen.

I agree Inflations hit Indo hard the last 5 yr most freelancer in Jarkata has raise their price is double from 7 yr ago, I was at Millie disco most girl want one Juta now all all nighter when I was there a few month I pick one up 300k stay 3 hr 2 shots but not this trip, you can still get girl at Stadium in house for 350k same as Hotel travel and Classic terminal even Bitang Mawar drop their price to 325k it was 400k on my last trip, place like Cherry massage and melawi hotel 6th sauna is pricing themself out of the market will be out of business very soon.

Fast Eddie 48

Inflation has indeed hit Blok M but the quality of girls has gone downhill. Top Gun had nothing to be considered for take out when I was there a couple of weeks ago, D's Place was a bit better. Finally ended up on the other side of the city and had a great time with a little spinner at Classic for 350k.

There's no inflation. My plate of soto ayam still costs the same as it did 3 years ago and the rent did not change for even longer.

If they even know what it inflation is, it's all just an excuse to get more money. The other side of town where freelancers of the same quality look for Asian clients, for example, are still charging the same they've been charging since 5 years ago so it's obviously a Bule-only thing. Besides, we're not in Thailand and the economy, demographics and salaries here all work to our benefit.

If you get a price higher than average (4/500k ST and 800 LT) at the Blok, just bargain her down then walk away if she doesn't budge. With an overly saturated market like here they will be back in no time coming looking for you to go with them for your price once they figure out they would be better with money than no money at all. And it'll work in places like BATS and CJ's too, if they aren't popular enough, because it costs them 150K to get in and another 50k or so to get there.

[QUOTE=John Marigold99;1531961]You remember US$1 = Rp65, 000? I don't think so. In 1995-96 the Rupiah traded at about Rp2, 300 per USD. The Asian currency crisis in 1997-98 severely affected the Thai Baht and the Rupiah. In June 1998, the Rp hit bottom at Rp16, 800. It has never come close to Rp65, 000.[/QUOTE]OK, it's been a long time, but that is what I seem to recall from back then. If I'm wrong, sorry.

By the way, I thought Tiga Puluu wasn't too bad. I finally bedded a cutey named Erin. Kept her all night for USD$100. Now I know the guys who know Jakarta will blast me for paying that much, but I'm not real familiar with the local activities and didn't have much time to go exploring.

I was happy, she was happy. That's all that matters.

MadVic

I have a question for those here in the republic for the long-haul: Do you find it better to tone up or tone down your local savvy when playing the game?

I have some profiles on social networking sites where I completed the "about me" section in Indonesian (although my Indonesian is meh, maybe). And I've noticed that since I've done that, I've got less replies. Or more Zzzzz nicey-nice girl replies.

Similarly, I wear batik, which goes over well professionally. And I think that the ladies go huh, om bule, and walk on by.

It's like I'm too local, with all of the negative things that that implies. When I wear Western dress, it feels different.

So I am thinking: I should tone down the localness, maybe pretend to be passing through. Simplify the social media profile with only a dash of local language and bust out the Sundanese, gaul and Javanese (mongo!) later.

I wonder how long-haul residents have changed their game over the long haul. And I wonder if it is just me getting to reflective and melancholy as I get older.

PS Thank you to the members like Hilo77 and AsianRain, who had kind words about my last report. And thanks everyone for the information on the board.

[QUOTE=Madvic; 1534861]OK, it's been a long time, but that is what I seem to recall from back then. If I'm wrong, sorry.

By the way, I thought Tiga Puluu wasn't too bad. I finally bedded a cutey named Erin. Kept her all night for USD$100. Now I know the guys who know Jakarta will blast me for paying that much, but I'm not real familiar with the local activities and didn't have much time to go exploring.

I was happy, she was happy. That's all that matters.

MadVic[/QUOTE]Most FLs in Jakarta would be happy if they get USD100 for overnight. I'm not going to blast you, but I will chide you. The fact is that we have this site so that we can discuss local pricing in order that we don't spoil the market for others. The bottom line is that if enough people come in and start paying these prices without a thought as to the effect, you get the current situation where it becomes the normal price in that location. I myself haven't been to Tiga Puluh for years. Much as I enjoyed going there at one point in time. This is a regular topic that crops up on the forum and everyone seems to have their opinion. However, I recall when I first joined some years back that one of the primary purposes would be so members would know where to go for our hobby, and how much we should pay. This was so that we wouldn't be overpaying and creating problems for ourselves. The other confusing factor that comes in is that some members quote in USD and some in Rupiah. I would suggest, due to fluctuating forex rates, that we should also stick to pricing in Rupiah and add the pricing in USD / Euro / Sterling etc in brackets after. Any thoughts?

Just as an aside, I have paid 1 million rupiah in Tiga Puluh some time back, but then again it was for almost 24 hours so she did deserve it. The normal rates back then (circa 2006) were 300-500k LT. I also had 4 girls for 1 million from Tiga Puluh for about three hours back then. They were friends and shared transport costs (and it was ladies night) so it made economic sense to them. That was when Bulai69 and Menteng were regular posters in this forum. Damn I'm starting to show my age if I'm going to go on reminiscing about "the good old days".

MD II

I don't think there are enough of us on this board to influence pricing in Jakarta, since it's a huge market. The market controls pricing; we don't, so all the admonitions to bargain and keep down the price are probably useless. You can't really blame the girls. They're right to get the best deal for themselves as they can. If their prices are too high, no one will buy their services and they will have to lower their prices. The same thing applies to us. If we aren't willing to pay the going rate, no one will go with us. It's pointless to complain. The market is the market, and you better understand that.

In my own pursuits, I like to read what others are paying to get a sense of the market. However, the market is not one price. The sexier, younger, more attractive girls can get better prices. Also, the same girl may hold out for more money earlier in the evening and drop her price if she can't find a customer. Similarly, she may go for a lower price if she really needs the money badly. Personal chemistry is also a factor. If she finds you attractive, she may charge you less. All this means one price is not the market for all situations.

I'm pretty demanding, so I'm willing to pay a bit more, if I really like the girl. One problem with bargaining real hard is that it can result in a lower level of service. If you don't pay her price, you can get a rushed service and of lower quality. I've found that I get much better service if the girl likes me and I'm paying a fair price. Tough bargaining can really spoil the mood. Here is an example of what I would do. At BATS, the going rate for two hours of service is around $100 US from someone who is pretty attractive. All-night can go up to $150. By reading ISG, I can get a sense of the market. Let's say I see a stunner at BATS who I would like to take to my room. After a nice conversation, I tell her what I want. I try to be pretty specific. She quotes me $200 for two hours. I don't walk away, because I really like her. I don't make a low-ball offer either. I tell her that her price seems pretty high and that I usually pay $100 for good service for two hours. She'll say that she's worth more. I'll tell her that she is definitely worth more, but $200 is pretty high. After a while, she may come down to $150. I'll say that I have a proposal for her: I'll give her $100, but if the service is really good, I'll include a $50 tip for a total of $150. Most of the time, she will accept the offer. This accomplishes a number of things. First of all, she doesn't lose any face that she might if I were a hard bargainer. Second, I can limit my downside to $100 if she gives me mediocre service. Third, I will probably get great service, because she'll be thinking about the $50 incentive. She will also feel good about me, since I've affirmed her value.

Now, some of you may say that I'm ruining the market and that I could get a girl to go with me for short-time for $50 or $75. That may be true, but it's probably not true for the girl that I want. Also, there's no bad feeling. She'll work really hard, because I've been polite with her and she wants to get that $50 bonus.

[QUOTE=Canyon;1536280]You can't really blame the girls. They're right to get the best deal for themselves as they can.[/QUOTE]You're absolutely right that we can't control the market, but why do you have to add fuel to the fire by overpaying and making it appear as though Westerner Bule are walking ATMs that can be tricked and manipulated? You paid $150 the other night, that's nearly a solid 2 juta.

With local and Asian clients, because they haven't been over paying them, they still get lower prices than Westerners for the exact same thing and sometimes for better quality and girls. Do you get my point?

A lot of these FLs add 100% or even 200% when they are in a Westerner Bule-only zone. For example, a girl who used to hang out at Lokasari and charges 400K to the local guys and even foreigner, suddenly asks 1.5 and even 2 juta at BATS. Has she changed one bit? Nope, but maybe a little genuine worn out Gucci handbag she borrowed from her friend that she brings everyday to make it appear as though she's high-class enough that you need to over pay her.

Let's not forget another thing. These girls unless they are from a rich family would probably be making a salary between 1.8 juta to 3 juta a month working 15 hours a day. If they're graduates from the average university here they'll be making 5 to 7 juta tops. So I can't understand why some guys here are saying "$100 is not a lot of money for them"?

[quote=ombule;1535939]i have a question for those here in the republic for the long-haul: do you find it better to tone up or tone down your local savvy when playing the game?[/quote]i find it's horses for courses. when you're visiting your "dank-dut" clubs a proficiency in bi is not only useful it's pretty damn near essential. on the dating and other sites you're looking to meet a different type of woman though aren't you? the sort of girl who's online, if she's interested in bules, is interested in them because they are seen as a bit exotic a bit of a change, and hopefully without the bad attitudes that the girls might associate with local guys. to put it another way, if you lived in the states and were looking to meet indonesian girls online because the sweet indonesian girl is your ideal, well then you'd probably avoid an indonesian girl who had lived long-term in the us and had assimilated all the characteristics and speech patterns of a valley girl.

one other point is that an indonesian woman will associate long-term residence in indonesia and proficiency in the lingo with what they endearingly term a "playboy". they will assume with perhaps some justification that you mastered the language through your wide range of long-haired dictionaries. i know my missus gets automatically suspicious if i use some bahasa expression (god forbid i should use sundanese, that would be a dead giveaway) or make reference to some local cultural thing or "artis" (and at this point it might be worth warning all you married guys that if you normally converse with your wife in english try not to let slip "oh iyah sayang, kaya begitu aja!" when she starts performing a particular act of lovemaking, not only will the act end suddenly without fulfillment the chances are you'll be spending the rest of the night on the couch. i know of which i speak).

on the batik thing, again it depends on the batik, if you have a fine selection of batik outfits carefully collected from your travels around the archipelago then they certainly would be a nice touch, a little idiosyncrasy associated with yourself. if however you wear batik like a bule kampung, you know the type, the english teacher eating his mie goreng at the warung with two batik shirts to his name, which he wears constantly because he can't be bothered washing and ironing a proper business shirt every day, then it might not come across so successfully.

so to answer your question i usually downplay the length of time i am here but that is mainly because i speak bahasa pidjin and i don't want to come across as a complete numpty. but like every thing else, the less they know about you and the more things you know about them the better by far.