Monterrey

usb says: "she told me that she makes salary without exception, and that when she has pushed them to the limits as far as skipping work, she has never been suspended or anything. she told me that she believes they can not afford to suspend her because it costs them money to take her out of the rotation. my "g" spot girl, for being a relatively uneducated girl, is pretty crafty.
fact is, i think she has them totally pegged, and that she knows what she's doing."

key word here is "i think".... and you are wrong.
the house cares for money, but then come a point where the balance tips to the side of authority.
the house rules and even if g is a girl that leaves money to them, they will not allow a girl to have an upper hand over them.
she has no power over them and they have all the power they could wish for.

you are playing a very insensitive game here.
am going to be frank and tell you that in rality you are playing only for yourself.

your saying that she wants to be with you even if she makes less or close to no money staying with you.
you are saying that she has pressed her limits with the house to be with you.
you have said that she doesn't care about those things.

very insensitive from your part: she is jeopardiozing her lively income and you are not even batting an eyelash.

you should be the first one to sacrifice himself, let her work and see her on her free time, not the other way around being that you'r free and distract her from work.
we gotta talk usb... cause one of these days, that likable monster that passes for a manager is going to kick her out.



[quote=unospongebob]so, to pick up where i left off, i get a knock on my door at 5:30am, right?

ok, you guys remember the girl i bar fined on sunday night, the one that was a disaster, the bi-sexual girl that had such wierd reactions to all the conventional stimulation techniques?

well, there she was behind the peephole....big as life at 5:30am, just three hours after i had dropped my "g" spot lookalike girl at the taxi. immediately, i thought, "ahhhhhh, life is good.!!!" :d

i am giddy thinking that even when i had just spent 1350 pesos on a "g" girl lookalike, and feeling kind of down, this girl shows up at my door after her shift at work. ahhhhhh, sweet...my now believing it was all poetic justice. i part with my money foolishly in the one sense, and i get a freebie as a result of having endured that, as the universe balances itself out. muy bien...

frankly, when i saw her through the peephole, it reminded me of the philipines, and for a moment, i had kind of a flashback of nastalgic regret that i was not indeed in the pi this very moment. but, i immediately realized that to be experiencing this in monterrey was truly unique.

you may remember that the "bi-sexual wierd girl" made me promise to call her to give her a second chance, but this one was just wierd enough that i just didn't feel that she would ever really live up to even the least of my expectations. and, frankly, i kept feeling like the victim in a holloween movie, wondering if she was going to pull out a 12" carving knife, chainsaw, or machete, and leave me for dead....she is really that wierd.

that having been said, obviously the opportunity to possibly get a freebie, even from a homicidal maniac, was more than the little head in my pants could pass up. :d even when all the indicators were that she had no potential. so, like a dummy, i let her in when she asked permission to stay.

i told her immediately that i have no money, and there would be no money involved. she agreed, of course i am sure she was also simultaneously believing she could prevail on my soft hearted, benevolent, save the bar girl stupidity the longer she stayed.

the first round of wierdness came when she said that the desk clerk had told her that she could not stay. i assumed he merely wanted to hear that i was ok with permitting her to stay. so, i slipped on my jeans and walked down the hall where i could look down from the veranda to tell the desk clerk that she being there was ok.

when i did so, he immediately said that it was not permissable to have three people in a room. i told him that i was the only one in the room. he had apparently seen me bring my "g" spot girl lookalike into the room, and he had not seen her leave. so, he assumed i was having a little orgy in the room with two girls.

i have never pushed the limits at the hotel to see just how far i might be able to go, and while i was not in violation of the policy because "lookalike" had already left, it is good to know that were i to attempt such a thing, it would not be met with an aire of cooperation.

although, i do believe that different desk clerks here would have a different approach to my escapades, and provided the right one is working, i don't really think that having two girls up to the room would be an issue, especially with a few well placed pesos and some assurances that everything would be tranquilo.

anyway, he accepted that i was the only one in the room, and he waived me off with little more than an ignoring look indicating that he would not give me any more grief. so, "wierd girl" and i returned to the room so that i could either be murdered in my sleep, or brought to extasy. fortunately the former did not occur, and we still have a long way to go to achieve the later.

she stayed for a while and fondled her, attempted all my former moves from saturday night, she assuring me that she would have a different kind of reaction. well, of course, as luck would have it, there was no change...i was somewhat frustrated, and i enjoyed fondling her boobs, attempting all my moves, etc...but, finally, i realized the futility of it all.

i remember laying back and closing my eyes, and she asked me if i was sleepy. i said yes, and she suggested that we sleep and cuddle, which she did quite well, even with plenty of kissing and carino. eventually, i just was exhausted from having seen three girls that day, and i decided that, even if she had a few knives stashed up her snatch, that i would be ok.

anyway, "wierd girl" and i slept for a while together, and evenutally, it was about 8am. so, i got up to check email, etc..., and to begin followup on the day's business issues. she just kept sleeping from about 8am to 9:30am. finally, she stirred and became aware that i was not in bed, and that i was typing on the laptop. she eventually got up, and starting getting dressed.

after she was dressed she hit me up for money. i told her i didn't have much money, which of course was a huge lie. i probably had about 4000 pesos in my false pocket in my jeans. but, i always keep two stashes of money, one of relatively modest amounts, and the other in the false pockets. i pulled out a 200 pesos bill, and gave it to her, telling her that was all i had...she suggested 500 pesos, then 300 pesos, and she persisted for a relatively short period of time.

i just told her i would not pay her for sleeping in my bed all night. i did feel that i had a sufficient amount of fun with her, fondling her beautiful breasts, and attempting all my other moves, enough so that i figured i would keep her as a friend, and give her a stipend amount for effort.

afterall, i am a fair minded monger, even when i do have strictly held standards of performance. i decided that i would have at least spent that same amount in the privados if i had kept her in there for (4) songs, and i had been fondling her for at least five times that amount of time. so, i decided that with her coming to find me in the room, i would give her something for making the effort, and for the time spent fondling her body. i realize that many would choose tactically not to permit this kind of behavior, but i am used to it, it being a very common occurrence in other venues of the world.

truth is, she offered to have sex many times, asking me if i had condoms, telling me a bunch of times that she need to fuck!!! she was quite insistant that she needed sex, and she was diddling herself feaverishly to get off.

but, of course, when i touched her with all the standard techniques that are othewise very effective for me on 99% of the girls i have ever known, all in varying degrees, admittedly, she had the most bizarro reactions, almost like a girl with the nerve condition where touching them causes them pain. she was so sensitive that to touch her in certain spots seemed to cause her discomfort. very "a" typical indeed.

i just told her i had no condoms, and that i could not have sex with her. of course, i have an ample stash of condoms. but, without the right reactions, the sex is of no interest to me, per se. i had already had a huge amount of sex this week as it was, and i didn't feel that having sex with her was going to satisfy an already satiated state of being.

the truth is, i just decided that if i could not get her to respond with the proper reactions, that sex was going to prove to be no better than a street girl in the alley way. so, i just figured that if i told her i had no condoms, she would give up on the idea, and preferrably i was hoping she would either shut up, go to sleep, or leave me in peace. :d

fortunately, she still had the mental sanity to tell me that she can not have sex without a condom...so, i threw my arms up in the air and said, oh well, maybe next time.

i know i am sounding kind of rough on this girl. her personality is actually quite charming. i actually like being with her, and to her credit, she is very lovable. it is just such a damned shame that she has such a messed up reaction to typically effective stimulation techniques.

finally, she left and i decided that she was never to be bar fined again, of course. last night, when she saw me at the bar, she sat with me at my table, and asked if we could go on salida again. i just shook my head, told her she didn't like our time together. she insisted how much she loved me, and that she just wanted to go with me to be loved. uhmmmmm, this girl is just so wierd. i actually think she likes all the carino, but she is not sexually receptive.

the next afternoon, my "g" spot girl showed up at around 2:30pm and we went to see a movie. i told her that she should not be pissing off her managers, but she just said that spending time with me is more important to her. she said she would have to listen to their bs for a while, but that she would literally let it go in one ear and out the other.

she told me that she makes salary without exception, and that when she has pushed them to the limits as far as skipping work, she has never been suspended or anything. she told me that she believes they can not afford to suspend her because it costs them money to take her out of the rotation. my "g" spot girl, for being a relatively uneducated girl, is pretty crafty.

fact is, i think she has them totally pegged, and that she knows what she's doing. she has, afterall, been working in the business for a few years now. anyway, my conscience is clear. i have told her to tow the line at work, and she just tells me that she wants to be with me when i'm here. she wants to have fun, and forget her responsibilities, and that she wants to simply be like a normal girl when i am here.

she feels that she is entitled to take some time off work to be with me if she wants to, and she told me that she will do that regardless of what they have to say to her. on wednesday, she spent from about 2:30pm to 10:30pm with me, 8 hours. i gave her 1000 pesos to cover her losses at work. we had a great time back in the room. i believe we arrived back around 5:30pm, and we made love all evening until she had to leave. there has been none more sincere than my "g" spot girl. bless her heart.

but, frankly, i believe that i may have jeapardized my position with her by bar fining her lookalike. i am going to tell her what i did, that i did it to make her jealous, and see where it leads me. i simply do not want her hearing it from anybody else in the bar. i frankly, think that i will be better off telling her, than attempting to go behind her back. fortunately for me, the lookalike was menstrating or i would not even have the excuse that i did not have sex with her, no matter how unbelievable that may sound.

more to follow with a news flash!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i am so happy!!!!![/quote]

[quote=carlos perez]cause one of these days, that likable monster that passes for a manager is going to kick her out.[/quote]

i realize what you are saying, and that they do of course have the upper hand if they choose to discipline or fire her at the bar. i absolutely do not encourage her to play those kinds of games at her job. i encourage her to do just the opposite. but, she wants to do what she wants to do. i can't force her to go to work. i quized her yesterday about it, and in no uncertain terms, she told me no questions, her mind is made up!!! simply put, she wants a normal life.

besides, in all frankness, according to her, she is not concerned for her job in the bar. i know it's a job where she sees much more money than is normally earned, but she does not want to be doing it forever, and has dreams to leave it, probably sooner than anyone imagines, and possibly for a very far away destination where she has other options apparently planned for. i learned this at my own disappointment this week.

her apparent intention is to attempt to locate far away from monterrey, but in questioning me, she may decide instead to located nearer the border, reynosa, laredo??? i don't know for sure, but she has discussed it in very serious terms with me, and she believes that it will occur with relative lightening speed.

don't misunderstand, i am not saying i believe they can achieve their hopes and dreams, especially when they are relatively uneducated as she is, and maybe her hopes to get out of the business are just pipe dreams. but, truth be known, they all get out sooner or later, if not because they have other opportunities, but because the aging process forces many of them into a more legitimate activity.

in my opinion, she is relatively ready to leave it intellectually and emotionally. if she chooses to do so, i will encourage her to do it for her psychological well being, and at the detriment of her finances. on the other hand, if she can make her life more enjoyable by playing both ends against the middle, and remaining in it for as long as her youth will permit her to exist in it, that is fine too. she is, afterall, almost 25 years old. she does not legitimately have that many years left in it, so i doubt she would be losing that much financially compared to if she were leaving it at 19 years of age. and, there is more than one bar in town. so, what she would be losing if she were to work elsewhere, compared to what she might earn at another bar, is negligible.

frankly, knowing her as i do, she is miserable in a life that offers her only the financial gratification of being a successful bar girl, working six days a week, loud music, drunken mexicanos, late hours, the social stigma, no social life, no legitimate romantic opportunites, a job lacking all the emotionally enriching experiences that are part of a normal girl's life.

if the truth be known, she would probably gladly sweep the floors at heb for 400 pesos a week if she were to have the opportunity for a legitimate life with somebody that loves her. i could not really in good conscience advise her to do otherwise knowing her the way i do, and the needs she has.

Angry Girl defrosts....

Last night, after my "G" spot girl left to go home around 10pm, I visited El Infinito, Givenchy, Pasarelas, and Harem.

My purpose in visiting El Infinito was to find a way to patch things up with Angry Girl. My tactic, after hearing from WastedG that she was always asking about how I am doing, and wanting my cookies, etc...was to bring a few cookies in a bag, to give them to Jaras, the boss, and to tell him to give them to her from an unknown source. In the past, of course, she would never accept anything from me offered directly to her in friendship. So, when I arrived at El Infinito, I called Jaras over and asked him to take them to her but not to tell her from whom they came from.

Jaras came back to me and told me that she said, "Oh how sweet." Uhmmmm, an interesting reply, considering I would have expected to have her throw them across the room, and punch Jaras out for even trying it to pass her something from me. I have witnessed her haul off and slap certain offending persons right across the face with the strength of Mike Tyson.

This girl had a very aggressive attitude and demeanor for at least the last year and a half. I was to talk to her in detail later in the privados, and be made aware of what caused such a personality change in her, one that I sensed 1.5 years ago, after having experienced her as the girl she most surely has returned to being now. Her demeanor compared to a year ago is like Jeckle and Hyde.

I suspected that based on WastedG's testimony, and her decidely softened reply, and acceptance of the postre, that perhaps she was having a change of heart. I did not really realize what a metamorphis had taken place as a result of some significant changes in her life concerning drug abuse.

Anyway, I left it at that, Jaras delivering the cookies and she accepting them, making myself seen, but not heard, walking around to see how she would react to seeing me. In the past, she would always avoid looking at me. This time, she looked right at me and smiled. I sensed a personality change in her, even though she did not really make an effort at this juncture to say hello, or to acknowledge me with body language. She was, at least, not ignoring me, it seemed.

Anyway, I decided that I would let the whole idea of rekindling an acquaintance stew with her for a while, and that I would leave El Infinito and visit Givenchy.

I went into Givenchy and had a very pleasant surprise. I walked around the stage, eyeing all the talent. I can tell you that Givenchy has a lot of girls now, especially on Wednesday thru Saturday nights, some of which are significantly improved with respect to looks compared to the old Givenchy, and including shear numbers.

The important thing is that as I approached the stage closest to the front door, and gazed upon the hot girl on stage, not really recognizing her particularly because it was pretty dark, she screamed out my name and ran to the edge of the stage to talk to me, asking me why I didn't call her to go on salida yet, why I had been in town all week already and no phone call, she talking to me as the music played away, she ignoring her dance responsibilities and staying to talk to me for what seemed like an eternity, etc...I had actually looked for her a couple of times during the past week, but she was really not in evidence there. I have her number, but I've literally been so busy that to work her into the schedule would have taken some significant effort.

When she finally got done dancing, we went into the privados and arranged for me to return later to pick her up after her shift. It would eventually turn out that she would ask me to wait for her around 3am to get off, and as I was waiting and waiting because she was tied up with another dude, one that was literally pawing her senseless, and seemingly with no end in site, I would eventually be asked to leave by some asshole waiter/jr. manager because I wasn't drinking anything while waiting, even though I had taken at least one other girl during the half hour I was waiting. I took one girl into the privados and spent 100 pesos during my wait.

I just decided it wasn't worth the effort to make a plea to the actual manager of the place, and because I was tired, I just said "me voy," and left. Fuck-em. The same thing happened to me the other night when I was waiting for my "G" spot girl lookalike girl to get dressed to go on salida, this after I had paid the manager a double fuckin' bar fine of 700 pesos.

The waiter/jr. manager actual began to escort me out the door as I was waiting for her to come down from the dressing room. I turned to him and instructed him that he better check with the manager before he escorts me out the door. He let go of my arm, and left me totally alone after that.

I am getting very damned sick and tired of spending money in these damned bars, and because I am not drinking a fucking coke-lite every frickin' minute, being asked to leave as a result of these damned leaching waiters, seemingly they out numbering the girls almost ten to one sometimes. Next time, I will order the cheapest damned drink on the menu and nurse it beyond all fuckin' human comprehension.

Do I sound pissed??? :D Well, I am...My point is that I am spending money in these bars, as much as anybody else, and probably a hell of a lot more than most Mexicano of modest means. The actual managers know it. I do not say I am a spending like a drug dealer on vacation, but I do spend some reasonably high dollars in their bars on privados and salidas.

The next time, I am definitely asking to see the manager, and I will detail for them just how much money I do spend in their establishments, and exactly how much more I spend than to nurse a frickin' beer every hour,and more importantly, just how much I plan to spend at their competing bar across the street after I am asked to leave theirs? I have to first learn how to say all that eloquently in Spanish. Carlos???? :D

But, apparently the evil eye I gave the waiter/jr. manager in El Infinito was enough to send him a message. I was kind of surprised he gave up so easily at my hard assed looks, but wonders never cease. As for the Givenchy Jr. Manager, I should have taken the time to call him on the carpet as well, but I was simply too tired to fight the battle. I may go looking for him tonight to set the record straight.

If this sounds like I am a loose cannon with no intellegent game with respect to dealing with Mexicanos, it is not the case. I am a consumate professional, and especially those that are Jr. Managers that are not properly evaluating their paying clientelle will undoubtedly be at least given something to think about. I hope that upper management has more brains. When he kicked me out of Givenchy, I had no less than 5000 pesos in my false pocket. But, first, ya gotta give me something worth buying, and not treat me with such disrespect.

So, point being, when you go to these clubs, just as MJ, Carlos, and others have pointed out, you're dealing with the dumbest assed people on the face of the earth with regard to intellegent business accumen, people in management positions. Tread litely and act with decorum and professionalism or they will undoubtedly never comprehend that they have chosen to kick the crap out of one of probably their comparatively richest potential customers on the floor...the average Gringo. Thanks for listening...that felt good :D

More to follow...

I had a chat with USB in the afternoon, told him his point of view is wrong.
There are guys at moderate priced clubs whos job is to catch people not drinking. Such people are told whether he drinks or leaves.
After all, imagine if everyone can go into a club an just stare at naked ladies.

You have to ran a tab at the 5 star clubs. Same thing, if you stop drinking, they bring you the bill so you can leave.
(USB hasn't suffered this at the high end clubs cause at least one of us is drinking, anteing up the tab).

The club's business is making money, not entertaing pedestrains for free.

Iam mostly surprised that USB feels this way, when he is a veteran of Monterrey. And yet with all his years of coming down here he has not payed attention of the people ejected from the clubs cause they are not drinking, just gawking at the girls.

That is why I always carry a drink in my hand, cause I know the consequences.

Again guys reading these posts: Do not be overconfident... you have to order drinks at clubs (be it alcohol, beer or soft drink), be seen drinking and not nursing an empty glass.

Like I said before many times, we are not good customers, we are just regulars with some knowladge of the girls.




[QUOTE=UnospongeBob]Angry Girl defrosts....

Last night, after my "G" spot girl left to go home around 10pm, I visited El Infinito, Givenchy, Pasarelas, and Harem.

My purpose in visiting El Infinito was to find a way to patch things up with Angry Girl. My tactic, after hearing from WastedG that she was always asking about how I am doing, and wanting my cookies, etc...was to bring a few cookies in a bag, to give them to Jaras, the boss, and to tell him to give them to her from an unknown source. In the past, of course, she would never accept anything from me offered directly to her in friendship. So, when I arrived at El Infinito, I called Jaras over and asked him to take them to her but not to tell her from whom they came from.

Jaras came back to me and told me that she said, "Oh how sweet." Uhmmmm, an interesting reply, considering I would have expected to have her throw them across the room, and punch Jaras out for even trying it to pass her something from me. I have witnessed her haul off and slap certain offending persons right across the face with the strength of Mike Tyson.

This girl had a very aggressive attitude and demeanor for at least the last year and a half. I was to talk to her in detail later in the privados, and be made aware of what caused such a personality change in her, one that I sensed 1.5 years ago, after having experienced her as the girl she most surely has returned to being now. Her demeanor compared to a year ago is like Jeckle and Hyde.

I suspected that based on WastedG's testimony, and her decidely softened reply, and acceptance of the postre, that perhaps she was having a change of heart. I did not really realize what a metamorphis had taken place as a result of some significant changes in her life concerning drug abuse.

Anyway, I left it at that, Jaras delivering the cookies and she accepting them, making myself seen, but not heard, walking around to see how she would react to seeing me. In the past, she would always avoid looking at me. This time, she looked right at me and smiled. I sensed a personality change in her, even though she did not really make an effort at this juncture to say hello, or to acknowledge me with body language. She was, at least, not ignoring me, it seemed.

Anyway, I decided that I would let the whole idea of rekindling an acquaintance stew with her for a while, and that I would leave El Infinito and visit Givenchy.

I went into Givenchy and had a very pleasant surprise. I walked around the stage, eyeing all the talent. I can tell you that Givenchy has a lot of girls now, especially on Wednesday thru Saturday nights, some of which are significantly improved with respect to looks compared to the old Givenchy, and including shear numbers.

The important thing is that as I approached the stage closest to the front door, and gazed upon the hot girl on stage, not really recognizing her particularly because it was pretty dark, she screamed out my name and ran to the edge of the stage to talk to me, asking me why I didn't call her to go on salida yet, why I had been in town all week already and no phone call, she talking to me as the music played away, she ignoring her dance responsibilities and staying to talk to me for what seemed like an eternity, etc...I had actually looked for her a couple of times during the past week, but she was really not in evidence there. I have her number, but I've literally been so busy that to work her into the schedule would have taken some significant effort.

When she finally got done dancing, we went into the privados and arranged for me to return later to pick her up after her shift. It would eventually turn out that she would ask me to wait for her around 3am to get off, and as I was waiting and waiting because she was tied up with another dude, one that was literally pawing her senseless, and seemingly with no end in site, I would eventually be asked to leave by some asshole waiter/jr. manager because I wasn't drinking anything while waiting, even though I had taken at least one other girl during the half hour I was waiting. I took one girl into the privados and spent 100 pesos during my wait.

I just decided it wasn't worth the effort to make a plea to the actual manager of the place, and because I was tired, I just said "me voy," and left. Fuck-em. The same thing happened to me the other night when I was waiting for my "G" spot girl lookalike girl to get dressed to go on salida, this after I had paid the manager a double fuckin' bar fine of 700 pesos.

The waiter/jr. manager actual began to escort me out the door as I was waiting for her to come down from the dressing room. I turned to him and instructed him that he better check with the manager before he escorts me out the door. He let go of my arm, and left me totally alone after that.

I am getting very damned sick and tired of spending money in these damned bars, and because I am not drinking a fucking coke-lite every frickin' minute, being asked to leave as a result of these damned leaching waiters, seemingly they out numbering the girls almost ten to one sometimes. Next time, I will order the cheapest damned drink on the menu and nurse it beyond all fuckin' human comprehension.

Do I sound pissed??? :D Well, I am...My point is that I am spending money in these bars, as much as anybody else, and probably a hell of a lot more than most Mexicano of modest means. The actual managers know it. I do not say I am a spending like a drug dealer on vacation, but I do spend some reasonably high dollars in their bars on privados and salidas.

The next time, I am definitely asking to see the manager, and I will detail for them just how much money I do spend in their establishments, and exactly how much more I spend than to nurse a frickin' beer every hour,and more importantly, just how much I plan to spend at their competing bar across the street after I am asked to leave theirs? I have to first learn how to say all that eloquently in Spanish. Carlos???? :D

But, apparently the evil eye I gave the waiter/jr. manager in El Infinito was enough to send him a message. I was kind of surprised he gave up so easily at my hard assed looks, but wonders never cease. As for the Givenchy Jr. Manager, I should have taken the time to call him on the carpet as well, but I was simply too tired to fight the battle. I may go looking for him tonight to set the record straight.

If this sounds like I am a loose cannon with no intellegent game with respect to dealing with Mexicanos, it is not the case. I am a consumate professional, and especially those that are Jr. Managers that are not properly evaluating their paying clientelle will undoubtedly be at least given something to think about. I hope that upper management has more brains. When he kicked me out of Givenchy, I had no less than 5000 pesos in my false pocket. But, first, ya gotta give me something worth buying, and not treat me with such disrespect.

So, point being, when you go to these clubs, just as MJ, Carlos, and others have pointed out, you're dealing with the dumbest assed people on the face of the earth with regard to intellegent business accumen, people in management positions. Tread litely and act with decorum and professionalism or they will undoubtedly never comprehend that they have chosen to kick the crap out of one of probably their comparatively richest potential customers on the floor...the average Gringo. Thanks for listening...that felt good :D

More to follow...[/QUOTE]

The true deadbeats never get ejected from places like Infinito or Matehuala, because you can easily pick up some beer some guy left behind on his wasy to the privadao areas and carry it around with you!

You guys all make some very reasonable points...and, in order to prevail under such a system, you just have to learn either to walk away, or just opt for another beer to drive them back into the shadows.

With respect to Carlos' post, I certainly understand that you can't have patrons standing around watching the girls, and paying nothing to the house. But, frankly, within the range of less than two hours, I had spent 700 pesos in El Infinito, and in less than one hour at Givenchy, at least 100 pesos.

I do NOT see where economic formulas suggest that I was not just as profitable partaking in the privados, and the bar fine, as a regular beer drinking customer over that same time span. None of us is big spenders that would impress them, but we are comparatively probably bigger spenders than 90% of their clientele. I mean, common' look at those guys sitting around the stages, the ones that nurse a beer for hours and don't have the money other than to cop a feel at ring side.

If the profit margin on the sale of the beer is 100%, that would mean that 50 pesos of profit would equate to my having drunk a couple of beers in that time span with respect to the dance in the privados. Assuming an average beer is around $3.50, and assuming that profit is 100%, that would be about $1.75 per beer, which equates to my having spent on 2.85 beers over the course of about an hour in Givenchy.

And, with respect to the bar fine, they are getting their 350 pesos per two hour period. How many of those guys sitting around the stages drinking beer are spending 175 pesos per hour? NOT LIKELY!!! I am with Porker on that one...More of them are scamming the house than that.

If you do the math, the argument that I am not just as profitable to them in partaking in other services is non-sense. I suspect that they have their profits totally calculated right down to the number, making all aspects of their business equally profitable, beer and services, based on time versus COGS. If they don't they are seriously inept.

No, this is just another example of the "system" that prevails. No matter how much I may love Mexican girls, my amigos, the language, the colorful aspects of Mexican culture, etc...the P4P system continues to generate many negatively felt feelings for many guys, especially Gringos, ranging from the hassles created by the cops in TJ, to being kicked out of a bar for not drinking in lieu of spending on other services that are very likely more profitable for them than the sale of a couple of beers over the course of a little over an hour.

I am probably more profitable for them per hour than 90% of the average patrons in the bar at one time. That conclusion supports MJ's conclusions with respect to their lack of business accumen. I will go even further than that and suggest that most of those goons they have working in the bars are more interested in demonstrating their macho images than they are in running a profitable and growing business.

[QUOTE=Carlos Perez]I had a chat with USB in the afternoon, told him his point of view is wrong.
There are guys at moderate priced clubs whos job is to catch people not drinking. Such people are told whether he drinks or leaves.
After all, imagine if everyone can go into a club an just stare at naked ladies.

You have to ran a tab at the 5 star clubs. Same thing, if you stop drinking, they bring you the bill so you can leave.
(USB hasn't suffered this at the high end clubs cause at least one of us is drinking, anteing up the tab).

The club's business is making money, not entertaing pedestrains for free.

Iam mostly surprised that USB feels this way, when he is a veteran of Monterrey. And yet with all his years of coming down here he has not payed attention of the people ejected from the clubs cause they are not drinking, just gawking at the girls.

That is why I always carry a drink in my hand, cause I know the consequences.

Again guys reading these posts: Do not be overconfident... you have to order drinks at clubs (be it alcohol, beer or soft drink), be seen drinking and not nursing an empty glass.

Like I said before many times, we are not good customers, we are just regulars with some knowladge of the girls.[/QUOTE]

You see... your starting point is wrong.
You were talking about it yesterday, but I totally forgot that maybe you didn't know that the local brewery is an agresive producer of beer for a thirsty market.
I know as a fact that the Matehuala, Givenchy, Infinito, El Cielo quadrangle is the #2 buyer of beer in the city. You might see guys nursing beers for an hour, but at the same time, there are hundreds drinking lots of beer as a whole in the 4 clubs.
In the US, beer has an added value tax that increases the price. The bottle is not returnable, again, raises the price. The net profit of beer in the US is nothing comparable to Mexican beer, it is not taxed as over there. That is why you find beer at 15 pesos a bottle.
I have prevailed in the system cause I've know for 25 years now that to mantain the House in state of bliss, you must consume.
Yes, it is monstruous idiot that thinks that that is the way to do business.
But for the moment, they have the upper hand, not the customer.

Remember we always talk about leaving a mark?
You are leaving the mark of a bad customer.
Even with the high rotation of security guards and submanagers, they pretty well know who is who around them.
One day they might be at Givenchy, but tomorrow you might bump into them at Tangalay... and am sure they will remember the bad gringo customer.

You are denoting arrogance and arrogance does not mix well at the clubs.





[QUOTE=UnospongeBob]You guys all make some very reasonable points...and, in order to prevail under such a system, you just have to learn either to walk away, or just opt for another beer to drive them back into the shadows.

With respect to Carlos' post, I certainly understand that you can't have patrons standing around watching the girls, and paying nothing to the house. But, frankly, within the range of less than two hours, I had spent 700 pesos in El Infinito, and in less than one hour at Givenchy, at least 100 pesos.

I do NOT see where economic formulas suggest that I was not just as profitable partaking in the privados, and the bar fine, as a regular beer drinking customer over that same time span. None of us is big spenders that would impress them, but we are comparatively probably bigger spenders than 90% of their clientele. I mean, common' look at those guys sitting around the stages, the ones that nurse a beer for hours and don't have the money other than to cop a feel at ring side.

If the profit margin on the sale of the beer is 100%, that would mean that 50 pesos of profit would equate to my having drunk a couple of beers in that time span with respect to the dance in the privados. Assuming an average beer is around $3.50, and assuming that profit is 100%, that would be about $1.75 per beer, which equates to my having spent on 2.85 beers over the course of about an hour in Givenchy.

And, with respect to the bar fine, they are getting their 350 pesos per two hour period. How many of those guys sitting around the stages drinking beer are spending 175 pesos per hour? NOT LIKELY!!! I am with Porker on that one...More of them are scamming the house than that.

If you do the math, the argument that I am not just as profitable to them in partaking in other services is non-sense. I suspect that they have their profits totally calculated right down to the number, making all aspects of their business equally profitable, beer and services, based on time versus COGS. If they don't they are seriously inept.

No, this is just another example of the "system" that prevails. No matter how much I may love Mexican girls, my amigos, the language, the colorful aspects of Mexican culture, etc...the P4P system continues to generate many negatively felt feelings for many guys, especially Gringos, ranging from the hassles created by the cops in TJ, to being kicked out of a bar for not drinking in lieu of spending on other services that are very likely more profitable for them than the sale of a couple of beers over the course of a little over an hour.

I am probably more profitable for them per hour than 90% of the average patrons in the bar at one time. That conclusion supports MJ's conclusions with respect to their lack of business accumen. I will go even further than that and suggest that most of those goons they have working in the bars are more interested in demonstrating their macho images than they are in running a profitable and growing business.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Carlos Perez]You are denoting arrogance and arrogance does not mix well at the clubs.[/QUOTE]

Thinking with an intellegent point of view and expressing it anonymously on ISG has nothing to do with "exhibiting" arrogance in the clubs. To analyze a business model, and to comment from an educated perspective with respect to one's observations is not exhibiting arrogance. I am merely expressing an opinion held by thousands upon thousands of patrons, both Gringos and Mexicanos.

Stupidity is stupidity in business with respect to how they treat their patrons, and the overall affect that pissing off patrons has on the business. Plus, while they may have cheaper beer available here, I do NOT believe that Corona, or any other Mexican beer company, sacrifices their profit margin to see their distributors of the merchandise profit at percentages that exceed a particular formula.

Cheaper beer in Mexico has nothing to do with profit margin realized in the clubs. If they buy in large quantity, certainly they can realize a higher profit margin than the taco vendor in la calle, but the producer is still not going to give it away.

At the cost of an average, popular branded beer, I see little evidence that my assumptions are that far off with respect to their anticipated profit from the sale of one beer.

The producer is going to be the one making the profit because they dictate and manipulate the price and the profit margins realized by the distributors of the product.

Besides, I suspect that the profit formula they use can almost be directly tied to the amount of money they charge for privados and salidas, with an hourly anticipated ideal sale per patron per hour being somewhere in the range of $17.50US per patron. If that holds true, that would mean that their best case scenario beer sales to be about (1) one beer every fifteen minutes per patron, with their probably being a certain number of patrons required to establish their breakeven point. Breakeven point is critical, and pissing off regular patrons that spend what we do, which is the life blood of their business, is stupid.

As another observation that directly supports my conclusions, and also establishes a rough estimate of their anticipated sales per customer per hour, if you take a girl into one of the private rooms at Givenchy, guess how many beers she will likely order per hour...between 3-4 per hour if you're lucky, definitley no less, and 5-6 per hour if she is a true star with management. This generally even holds true at almost any of the clubs. Take a look at the number of drinks you get out of a jarra, 250-350 pesos, approximately 3 drinks per pitcher, and how long it takes the average girl to drink it down.

Analyze this...

The girls earn their salary based on producing a certain number of Privados, which is their incentive to produce. If their quota to earn salary is (30) privados per eight hour day, that would be an average of 3.75 privados per hour if gaging their forecasted optimum performance at a place like El Infinito. If that holds true, then you can assume that their hourly anticipated sale per patron from Privados is $18.75US per patron.

See how close those numbers work out with respect to sales per patron per hour? Were I to guestimate at their formula, I would say based just on this cursory examination, and my own quick observations, that they optimumly like to see a patron spend between $17.50US and $18.75US per hour, per patron.

And, of course, there has to be a minimum number of patrons on the floor at all times to achieve profitability. If you go around pissing off patrons because you don't have enough patrons on the floor at 3am, and you are not acheiving your goal due to a lack of patrons on the floor, then it seems monumentally stupid to be pissing what patrons you do have off, ones that are spending money in the range you have established as optimum, and to drive them to another bar because you want to demonstrate how macho you are, and intimidate patrons into spending more in your bar, rather than motivating them properly to do so, that in a city where there are literally hundreds of options offering virtually the same experiences to the patron. Notice, I do not fault them for expelling patrons that are not spending any money, only for fucking with those of us that do.

You see, you can easily use math, if you are experienced enough dealing with these bars, and you certainly are, much more so than I, you can simply work backwards in your calculations based on what they charge for services versus the cost of a beer, and on behaviors, just to determine just where the upper management is considering their optimum average client's expenditures to be with respect to profitability. But again, break even point, which directly correlates to the average number of patrons on the floor, is key to being in business or going bankrupt. They are dependent of regular customer expenditures, and NOT HIGH ROLLERS. I know their common assumption is that the high roller is their key to success, but that only demonstrates their lack of education and experience with respect to managing a business, no matter if it's a strip club, a car dealership, a dry cleaners, etc...

So, to be pissing off your regular patrons without provocation, when they are spending in excess of your optimum formula, whether it be on beer or services, is STUPID!!!

I do not say I'm a "good" client, but when I spend 300-400 pesos in the privados in less than an hour, which I routinely do, or buy two salidas over a period of four hours, I am, mathematically, much better than even their optimum client, the one that maintains their consistent profititability, ones that, without them, were they only to rely only on the high rollers, would otherwise put them OUT OF BUSINESS.

This is where the clubs are exhibitiing their arrogance, and more importantly, demonstrating their lack of business accumen by turning the management of business operations to a bunch of goons, ones that like to play that they are "managers" but have no business accumen, education, or relative experience other than to know how to crack heads and demonstrate their machoism.

USB: "I am merely expressing an opinion held by thousands upon thousands of patrons, both Gringos and Mexicanos."

This is not true.... you are supposing, extrapolating. I have not seen polls, nor statistics stating this.


"Stupidity is stupidity in business with respect to how they treat their patrons, and the overall affect that pissing off patrons has on the business."

You are not going to kiddie Disneyland, you are going to adult Disneyland, one that labors in the grey fringes of the law.


"I do NOT believe that Corona, or any other Mexican beer company, sacrifices their profit margin to see their distributors of the merchandise profit at percentages that exceed a particular formula."

You are not dealing with Corona, Corona is from Mexico City, you are dealing with Cerveceria Cuahutemoc. They own all the Oxxos, they own the law, thru pressure, they modified the existing laws of sale at retail stores to expand the hours of sale.
Get a load of this: they sell beer to minors at soccer games of both local stadiums and no one lifts a finger.
Cerveceria subsidises bars by giving them chairs, tables, coolers, freezers, the signs that hang outside the bar... they even send crews to paint the place up.



"to their anticipated profit from the sale of one beer."

Ay ay ay..... one beer? Let me tell you that before quiting the drink, I drank 6 beers in 2 hours in the afternoon shift. You are looking at the individual beer, not at the gross sales of one day.


"As another observation that directly supports my conclusions, and also establishes a rough estimate of their anticipated sales per customer per hour, if you take a girl into one of the private rooms at Givenchy, guess how many beers she will likely order per hour...between 3-4 per hour if you're lucky, definitley no less, and 5-6 per hour if she is a true star with management. This generally even holds true at almost any of the clubs. Take a look at the number of drinks you get out of a jarra, 250-350 pesos, approximately 3 drinks per pitcher, and how long it takes the average girl to drink it down."

The girls beers are 50 pesos, guys are 15.... wholesale commercial beer goes for 8.50 pesos.. do the math.
Jarras... just so you can get an idea. The bottle of "wine" the girls drink is Boones wine. They sell it at 350 pesos a bottle. I can get the same wine for 35 pesos at a grocery store. Imagine what is the wholesale price.
Again, do the math.


"If you go around pissing off patrons because you don't have enough patrons on the floor at 3am, and you are not acheiving your goal due to a lack of patrons on the floor, then it seems monumentally stupid to be pissing what patrons you do have off, ones that are spending money in the range you have established as optimum, and to drive them to another bar because you want to demonstrate how macho you are, and intimidate patrons into spending more in your bar,"


They only [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] of patrons that don't drink. For the House, patrons that don't drink are no good. Try doing this, at the Prestige without my presence there, see what happens.
(You should take this in account... remember we are treated differently from the other customers. At both the Prestige and Obsession they allow the girls to do far more things than with the regular customers... haven't you noticed that?).

"intimidate patrons into spending more in your bar, rather than motivating them properly to do so, that in a city where there are literally hundreds of options offering virtually the same experiences to the patron. Notice, I do not fault them for expelling patrons that are not spending any money, only for fucking with those of us that do."

And at those hundreds of options, even if they have money in their pocket, they will kick them out again if they don't have a drink in their hands.


.... and I will cut this short, cause I have work to do.






[QUOTE=UnospongeBob]Thinking with an intellegent point of view and expressing it anonymously on ISG has nothing to do with "exhibiting" arrogance in the clubs. To analyze a business model, and to comment from an educated perspective with respect to one's observations is not exhibiting arrogance. I am merely expressing an opinion held by thousands upon thousands of patrons, both Gringos and Mexicanos.

Stupidity is stupidity in business with respect to how they treat their patrons, and the overall affect that pissing off patrons has on the business. Plus, while they may have cheaper beer available here, I do NOT believe that Corona, or any other Mexican beer company, sacrifices their profit margin to see their distributors of the merchandise profit at percentages that exceed a particular formula.

Cheaper beer in Mexico has nothing to do with profit margin realized in the clubs. If they buy in large quantity, certainly they can realize a higher profit margin than the taco vendor in la calle, but the producer is still not going to give it away.

At the cost of an average, popular branded beer, I see little evidence that my assumptions are that far off with respect to their anticipated profit from the sale of one beer.

The producer is going to be the one making the profit because they dictate and manipulate the price and the profit margins realized by the distributors of the product.

Besides, I suspect that the profit formula they use can almost be directly tied to the amount of money they charge for privados and salidas, with an hourly anticipated ideal sale per patron per hour being somewhere in the range of $17.50US per patron. If that holds true, that would mean that their best case scenario beer sales to be about (1) one beer every fifteen minutes per patron, with their probably being a certain number of patrons required to establish their breakeven point. Breakeven point is critical, and pissing off regular patrons that spend what we do, which is the life blood of their business, is stupid.

As another observation that directly supports my conclusions, and also establishes a rough estimate of their anticipated sales per customer per hour, if you take a girl into one of the private rooms at Givenchy, guess how many beers she will likely order per hour...between 3-4 per hour if you're lucky, definitley no less, and 5-6 per hour if she is a true star with management. This generally even holds true at almost any of the clubs. Take a look at the number of drinks you get out of a jarra, 250-350 pesos, approximately 3 drinks per pitcher, and how long it takes the average girl to drink it down.

Analyze this...

The girls earn their salary based on producing a certain number of Privados, which is their incentive to produce. If their quota to earn salary is (30) privados per eight hour day, that would be an average of 3.75 privados per hour if gaging their forecasted optimum performance at a place like El Infinito. If that holds true, then you can assume that their hourly anticipated sale per patron from Privados is $18.75US per patron.

See how close those numbers work out with respect to sales per patron per hour? Were I to guestimate at their formula, I would say based just on this cursory examination, and my own quick observations, that they optimumly like to see a patron spend between $17.50US and $18.75US per hour, per patron.

And, of course, there has to be a minimum number of patrons on the floor at all times to achieve profitability. If you go around pissing off patrons because you don't have enough patrons on the floor at 3am, and you are not acheiving your goal due to a lack of patrons on the floor, then it seems monumentally stupid to be pissing what patrons you do have off, ones that are spending money in the range you have established as optimum, and to drive them to another bar because you want to demonstrate how macho you are, and intimidate patrons into spending more in your bar, rather than motivating them properly to do so, that in a city where there are literally hundreds of options offering virtually the same experiences to the patron. Notice, I do not fault them for expelling patrons that are not spending any money, only for fucking with those of us that do.

You see, you can easily use math, if you are experienced enough dealing with these bars, and you certainly are, much more so than I, you can simply work backwards in your calculations based on what they charge for services versus the cost of a beer, and on behaviors, just to determine just where the upper management is considering their optimum average client's expenditures to be with respect to profitability. But again, break even point, which directly correlates to the average number of patrons on the floor, is key to being in business or going bankrupt. They are dependent of regular customer expenditures, and NOT HIGH ROLLERS. I know their common assumption is that the high roller is their key to success, but that only demonstrates their lack of education and experience with respect to managing a business, no matter if it's a strip club, a car dealership, a dry cleaners, etc...

So, to be pissing off your regular patrons without provocation, when they are spending in excess of your optimum formula, whether it be on beer or services, is STUPID!!!

I do not say I'm a "good" client, but when I spend 300-400 pesos in the privados in less than an hour, which I routinely do, or buy two salidas over a period of four hours, I am, mathematically, much better than even their optimum client, the one that maintains their consistent profititability, ones that, without them, were they only to rely only on the high rollers, would otherwise put them OUT OF BUSINESS.

This is where the clubs are exhibitiing their arrogance, and more importantly, demonstrating their lack of business accumen by turning the management of business operations to a bunch of goons, ones that like to play that they are "managers" but have no business accumen, education, or relative experience other than to know how to crack heads and demonstrate their machoism.[/QUOTE]

Wellwhome69...
#1. One of the first rules at the clubs is NEVER pay with a credit card. Me, personally, I stoped paying with plastic in the early 90's.

#2 The clubs can be user friendly... thing is you have to leave a mark, one that shows you are intelligent, that you know how the business runs, and that you might be a potentialy good customer (very important "might be", leave them in doubt that they let go a "very good" customer and they are to blame).

#3 Iam not a good drinker and USB, Wasted, nor me drink alcoholic beverages, but we do buy the girls drinks, that counts too.

#4 Don't worry about the girls being taken in advantage by the clubs. If they feel they are being abused, money being witheld, they just skip the club and move to another one... they are not stupid. They can pretty take care for themsleves.

#5 The important thing is obtaining a balance between spending and the fun you obtain. You have to be pretty much on the look out for that because the clubs always have the upper hand.




[QUOTE=Whome69]This is very true. I have seen it time and time again in business in Mexico. The "typical" Mexican would sacrafice an existing relationship generating an income of $10G's a month for a quick $30G's today. However, there are exceptions to this rule.

The solution that I have found that works is to build a good solid relationship with the one that "you depend on". Get to know their secrets. Like where and how they cheat on their Taxes. Their Slush fund! Who their G/F is and where she lives. Ect, Ect, Ect. You don't have to be so crass to say anything about what you know, except to maybe to say, "This is a no win situation".

I try to spend as little time in these "Show Bars" as possible. I am not a big drinker and I am there for the women. However, I am also guilty. I have paid Tabs that went well over a thousand bucks even after getting the Bill straightened out for Server Fraud. It pisses me off that these Bars really take advantage of these Girls and they really don't appreciate their Customer. If it wasn't for the Girls, who would pay their exorbitant prices and tolerate thier "Billing errors" and 10% surcharges for Credit Card payment? When I will fully retire and my youngest kid is out of the house, perhaps I will start a Union for these girls? : Maybe even contacting the Credit Card companies and back-charging them for their surcharges accross the Board for ever Customer over the past 2-3 years which is a violation of their CC agreements? These Clubs NEED Credit Card support.[/QUOTE]

Carlos Perez, Wellwhome69

"#1. One of the first rules at the clubs is NEVER pay with a credit card. Me, personally, I stoped paying with plastic in the early 90's. "

Agreed but sometimes when you go in with a group. Things get out of control. As a rule, I pay as I go in cash. The last time that I was in Monterrey, this is what happened. Three of us ran through our cash. And guess who got stuck with most of the Bill of about $1000 over our Cash? At least they didn't try to overcharge us. At least by much, if they did. I have a good mind for numbers. No one tried any sheninigans with us at any time. We had a great time. I still have "my" Girl's telephone number. LOL! I did call a week later and she did give me her real number. Just need to get back down there. : (:

"#2 The clubs can be user friendly. Thing is you have to leave a mark, one that shows you are intelligent, that you know how the business runs, and that you might be a potentialy good customer (very important "might be", leave them in doubt that they let go a "very good" customer and they are to blame). "

Agreed completely BUT this takes time. The assumption is that the customer is an easy mark until proven otherwise. A customer shouldn't have to prove anything. Maybe this is the difference with the American/Mexican mentality? The American assume the House and servers are basically "honest" while the Mexican knows better.

My point is IF the House/Server sees that they are dealing with a Tourist who may never come back, then they are toast.

I will pay in Dollars if they have a good exchange rate BUT I use small bills. In the past, I have had to fight for "the $20 for a $5 trick". What I have done in the past is mark my money with my initials. The last two times, they tried this, the house lost. Of course, what doesn't help is that I do not speak Spanish well but I do comprehend at a much higher level.

" #3 I am not a good drinker and USB, Wasted, nor me drink alcoholic beverages, but we do buy the girls drinks, that counts too. "

The same for me. A beer an hour? ! My booze consumption is low for a number of reasons. Of course, it helps to pick a girl who is not a complete cow when it comes to drinks. It helps if you keep them entertained. The problem, for me, is that the Club's Music is sooooooooo loud, I can't hear.

Once I get to know them, I do the Salida method or I see them on their Nights off. Remember I enjoy the GFE.

"#4 Don't worry about the girls being taken in advantage by the clubs. If they feel they are being abused, money being witheld, they just skip the club and move to another one. They are not stupid. They can pretty take care for themsleves. "

Agreed to a point but I think you have to agree that it is more complicated and is really based on economics. If the girl thinks she can make the same without the hassle, she is gone. We both know Clubs that have Homes for some of their girls where they are well taken care of. Their laundry and cooking is done for them. The problem in Mexico, is that the House takes a percentage of EVERYTHING. Sometimes even tips. This is what I resent. The girl is doing the work. Lets face it, the Club can be a realy dive but if they great girls, the guys will show up. BTW, this attitude permeates the Business and is just not Mexican.

"#5 The important thing is obtaining a balance between spending and the fun you obtain. You have to be pretty much on the look out for that because the clubs always have the upper hand"

Agreed. Much like Vegas. This is why I like the Salida approach and/or avoid the Big Glitzy Clubs. A quality choice may not be as good in these other establishments. But you can find a good one. If I remember right, you prefer these "smaller less commercial" Clubs too.

Come to think of it, maybe a good comparison is Vegas over Mexico in terms of customer appreciation and how the Customer is treated? In Vegas, the service people are tip driven but they are not as agressive and the House. Much more laid back.

One of these days, since I live in McAllen, I will get there and spend the night.

[size=-2][b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please [url=http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?]Click Here[/url] for more information.[/blue][/size]

As Porker reminded me Friday night, advice he had given me months ago, and certainly advice that I took to heart at the time, he said:

"Enjoy the ride while it lasts."

I always knew this thing had a very definite beginning and an eventually painful ending. Frankly, I think it went on much, much longer than I ever anticipated it would, and I also feel that it was beginning to make me feel an obligation to her, and to simultaneously cause me feelings of guilt that I was leading her on, not to mention that it was significantly restraining me with respect to selecting other girls at El Infinito, her bar.

She has decided that as a result of my telling her that I bar fined another girl from Infinito last week, the "C" girl from the night shift, we are no longer together. She told me that it is best that we not see each other, better for us both. I think she was pretty committed to me, as committed as you can expect of a typical bar girl who I believe was generally trying to do the right thing by me. I think she really loves me even still, but I have really disappointed her by bar fining the other girl, one that was extremely mediocre too by the way, and NO comparison even when she has a similar appearance to the "G" girl au natural.

She also keeps telling me she is breaking it off for my own good, and has made reference to moving to TJ to take a job soon, in a couple of months, supposedly a legitimate one, which I sincerely doubt, probably one in the bars of TJ. Obviously, the ultimate purpose of her boob job to begin with I believe.

I believe that seeing me produced a conflict in her soul about what she does for a living, and that she believed in the end that she had to eliminate my influence in order to feel that she could continue in her chosen profession. I do think she was going through some self analysis, and perhaps she decided that she had no alternative in life but to go the bar girl route, and I believe that she concluded that to keep me in the picture threatened her decision making process, and that I would also be ultimately disappointed in her leaving me.

I believe that she knew what she had to do business wise, but was torn doing it with me in her life. My attempts to get her out of the business ultimately failed, as they probably should have. Porker informed that she would have no problem making $1000US a night in TJ.

I think that we had grown very close over the months, and that the disappointments that are too much a part of a long distance romance is what did me in. My telling her that I bar fined another girl was the catalyst, but I could see the writing on the wall now for the last couple of months that the whole arrangement was taunting her, and that it was only a matter of time before things came to an end. She has other influences in her life that made her choose to end it with me so that making her decisions would not be painful for either of us.

She was happy when she was with me, then I went away, leaving her behind, which only served to taunt her emotions each month. She seemed to go through real ups and downs emotionally with respect to trying to have a relationship with a visiting Gringo who lives 600 miles away. And, at some point, I believe she felt and obligation to me knowing that I did have feelings for her, and was returning to see her. But, in reality, I had feelings for the GFE. There is a difference. But, it speaks well of her character, even if she is a bar girl, that even now she worries about my reaction to this turn of events. She is seemingly, genuinely sad over the circumstances.

She told me that she was just so sad, missing the BFE during the time I was gone, and that she just couldn't take it any more. She was very mad at me for the bar fine issue, and thinks I am just as low as all men now, which gave her the excuse to cut it off. But, I think it is perhaps better to have her cutting it off than me disappearing or dumping her with some kind of public display in the bar right in front of her. I think she also cut it off to have mercy on herself, and according to her, to have mercy on me. I assume she is planning to leave town, which may or may not happen, and that she preferred to at least bring it to a close now rather than disappear, and hurt me worse.

For the last year, I tried to be very considerate of her feelings, and I blew it with the bar fine. But, honestly, I was wondering how I was ever going to get out of the relationship that I knew would only ultimately hurt us both. I could see that I was leaving her miserable each time I would leave, but I also didn't want to hurt a girl that I loved for her attentions and genuineness toward me in the moment. She truly was the closest thing to a real girlfriend I have ever experienced...but, that's because she was a real girlfriend. Literally the both of us were engaged in a love of the GFE/BFE. I doubt seriously that she really actually loves me for me like my wife does...It is strictly that she loves the BFE delivered in her preferred way, and she found it in me. I love the GFE delivered in my preferred way, and I found it in her. That is not love between two people, but infatuation with GFE/BFE. It is important to psychologically understand and point out that distinction.

You know, she told me all about having her Mexican boyfriend about 8 months ago, and according to her, he was on hold while we were together. I actually met him once... seemingly a pretty nice guy. She has the same kinds of problems with him being the Cabrone that she eventually believed she had with me with regard to my bar fining another girl. So, much of this Carbron strategy does not really apply according to my experience with Mexican girls. Maybe it applies to them on a subconscious level, but they seem to be looking for the same thing that all Western women seek, a committed and loving boyfriend or husband, one that does not run around on them, but puts them on a pedestal. She had given up on the Mexican boyfriend in favor of seeing me, so she said. He was always chasing another girl on her apparently. But, I am not naive. I am sure that some of her aggravation must have been trying to satisfy the both us with her time, while also simulataneously work in the bar, take care of and spend time with her son, deal with her mother's ailments, etc...

But, I think in the end, she realized that her Mexican boyfriend was at least there for her when she needed a companion, and she told me when we broke up that her intention was to go back to him, that he was nice, like me, she said, which was sweet thing for her say in light of the fact that she was angry with me. I don't know if she ever actually broke up with him the entire time...she says she did, and that she was faithful to me...who knows...probably not.

I think we two still have love for other, and she would not treat me with such malice as Angry Girl did. She is very considerate of my feelings, and feeling a lot of pain too, at least it seems that way based on the way she talks to me now. But, we both also realize the absurdity of trying to continue a romance like this, she more than me.

For my part, I would do it as long as she would have me because I have nothing to lose. However, in thinking it over, she has determined that she has a lot to lose at her job, etc..., not to mention that she was wasting time trying to find a solid relationship with me, one that I told her from the beginning would never go anywhere.

So, when I consider what is best for her, then I believe she has done the right thing. Of course, I always told her that there was never a chance of anything seriously happening between us in hopes she would not get hurt. But, people fall in love, at least within the definition that I previously articulated concerning infatuation and GFE/BFE. At one point, when we were talking about her moving away, she actually asked me with every ounce of sincerity you can imagine, in a kind of passionate, hopeful appeal, to marry her.

Of course, I realize the absurdity of such a thing, but I can't help but think that over the months, she might have felt she had a chance that our getting together could work. I NEVER lead her to believe that, always telling her there was no way due to age factors, distance, jobs, education, culture, etc, etc, etc...But, I think she had hopes initially, she pursued me month to month just as a legitimate girlfriend would, only to experience an emotional roller coaster, and that lately she was seeing that her hopes were a waste of time for her in almost every respect. I believe she was feeling guilty at not paying the right amount of attention to her work responsibilities, her son, her mother, etc...and she told me so.

I feel bad because I let her down with the bar fine last week. But, by the same token, she was letting me down every night she worked in the bar. So, we were hurting each other, and I think she saw that too when she said it was for my own good that we split. She told me that it would be better for me, that I would be free to see other girls, and I know she believes that time away will heal us both. I think she's right.

I believe she became a ho because she lost confidence in men. I believe she is typical in the sense that she has decided that it's in her best interest to exploit men to the best of her ability. I always did believe that. But, between us was a different dynamic going on, one that I thoroughly enjoyed, and the consumate GFE. I never felt that she ever exploited me, but that she treated me with the care and concern of a real girlfriend. I still think she is treating me with the same care and concern of someone who actually does still love me.

For the last year, she has thought of me differently, and her attitudes toward me were conventionally romantic because she thought she had found a man that acts differently toward her, and I did. I did almost exclusively see her for a year, and I treated her like she fantsized her romantic relationship should be. If I bar fined another girl, it was always from another bar, even when I had numerous other opportunities at El Infinito.

By my bar fining another girl, I burst the bubble, her fantasy. According to all outward appearances, I was faithful to her, and it made her feel that she could have a relationship with a man and be happy. That was her mistaken fantasy. But, over time, of course, the fact that she is a ho and I am a monger, not to mention the length of time we were together, and the obsurdity of anything legit actually coming of it, to include hopes that I believe she had for some permanency, simply got in the way of her screwed up life and my legitimate one.

Just to be clear on my state of mind. I love the GFE she delivered. That is my sense of loss. Her performance was not typical in MTY and I "loved" it. If I have any feelings toward her, it's the normal male/female attraction that exists, and that she is a friend, an intimate lover, even though she's a ho. We parted romantically on good terms, she telling me how much she still loves me, crying over breaking it off, etc...but, also telling me that after my having seen another girl, it is not the same for her inside. She feels betrayed while simultaneously feeling the loss of her BFE. I understand completely.

If I have any sadness it's more of a sadness related to having disappointed her for having burst the bubble, pushing her into a harder viewpoint about men. Plus, she's a friend, and I do feel some emotion for her because I have been intimate with her beyond the client/provider relationship, and I don't like to hurt her feelings, which I have.

I loved the dynamic itself, having a legitimately interested girlfriend on the side that showed it in ways that are beyond GFE, realizing of course, simultaneously that she is also a ho. But, with me, she was not acting the ho, but being her legitimate self. But my love of the "fantasy" is where I feel a sense of loss.

Carlos and MJ are so right about certain things with respect to the social class differences. As a result of getting closer than the average monger would ever be to one of these girls, I am so aware of the differences between us, and how opposed our social classes are after having spent a lot of time with her outside the hotel room. I could never be legitimately seen with her in reality, not there in MTY, and not here in the US. Of course, I realize that in spades. I always felt like I was on display when I was out with her in MTY, and I was. But, I just decided that since nobody knew me, the fantasy was worth the slings and arrows of my having been seen with her in public.

I want you to know that I totally realize that I am not really in love with her. I love my wife and family, and the legitimacy of that relationship is obvious when I am back after returning from the fantasy in MTY. My legitimate life back home, serves to dispell any false sense of loss that may creep into my psyche, and I want to articulate that my "G" Spot Girl was just the instrument of my fantasy. Intellectually, I realize all of that, and more. The entire thing with her is like a nice dream, one that you know is not reality, but one you wish you could have every night.

I do think it's a shame these girls down that path, and my heart bleeds for the nice ones like "G" girl. But, she chose her path, and the fate that awaits her is her destiny as a result of the choices she is making. That is my only regret for her, and if I have regrets for her, it is merely as a friend, and not truly as a lost lover per se. She has willingly sacrificed her heart for money, and she will undoubtedly be very wealthy by Mexican standards if she isn't already. But, her heart will continue to bleed as a result. There is always tit for tat when you make those kinds of decisions, and it's especially true for women.

You know, this seems to verify my theory that to be bar fining girls out of El Infinito like WastedG does with his harem, one right in front of the other, at least with respect to my "G" girl, which was originally suggested as a strategy for me to do by almost all giving me advice, does not seem now like it would have been a very good strategy for me to use early on with respect to the preferrable longevity of the GFE.

As it is, I was able to obtain a full year of very good GFE by playing it my way, the exclusivity angle. I doubt if this whole scenario would have lasted much longer even if everything would have gone perfectly, and even if I hadn't made a move to sabatage it by bar fining a girl from the same bar.

I am not sure that I like the ups and downs, or the ultimate affect, of the intense hi-bred GFE, and after having experienced the intensity of this one, my future goal will be to experience the GFE with less sincerity of emotion. That intensity of emotion is a direct result of my own effort made with the girl. I feel that depending on the girl, I am really quite capable of making this happen to some extent again, but I am not really sure that it's worth the emotional ups and downs, the feelings of obligation, and the guilt associated with making them cry over it, etc...

In the past, I always felt that I should not feel guilty because I am playing my little games with hos, and hos are fair game. I would never try to cultivate the hi-bred GFE with a good girl because I would feel terribly guilty building up their expectations without having any sincerity to act on my attentions in a legitimization effort. But, with a ho, such as my "G" girl, I felt she was fair game. I had the significant additional motivation of having her with me for 8-12 hours at a time, all for a donation that was entirely up to me.

I believe she would have gone with me at times for free, if she had the time available away from all the other obligations, but I always chose to at least cover her expenses, time away from work, etc... Now, after knowing my "G" girl as a person, getting into her heart, and she into mine, even though she is a ho, I don't even feel right doing it to her, or ones like her, in the future.

The financial motivation is what really made me push it with her. In the end, I was giving her 1000 pesos for 8-12 hours of her time. That's simply unheard of. The deal was always so good that I just couldn't keep from perpetuating the GFE. Plus, during that particular period, money was tighter during that year that I saw her. So, a hi-bred GFE got me a lot more action for less money than I would typically be able to afford, especially from girls of her category.

Fortunately for me, I was with her long enough that I do not feel I will really miss her body, or crave her ways. I feel relatively satiated. That's a good thing because I can't really imagine how I would feel were I to crave that little body of hers, and crave her emotional attentions and not have access to her on salida, or in the same hi-bred GFE scenario.

You know, another thing that is kind of liberating too is that I felt this obligation to return to perpetuate the GFE as frequently as possible. I was always kind of worried what I might be doing to her, with all her texting and everything, something that demonstrates a girl's constant state of mind. I just felt I should try to come to see her. Now, I am free from that obligation.

I notice too many recent changes in my "G" girl, and changes are usually bad. It started with the fake boobs, and I knew that from that moment forward it was going to be down hill. You know, I did not really know her that well after the first bar fine two years ago. And if you will remember, I did not bar fine her the second time until a year later. She has always been very sweet to me. But, I suspect she was even sweeter during that year between my first bar fining her when she was new, and my bar fining her a year later. It was during that period she was au natural, and probably a lot nicer girl being newer at the game, even nicer than the girl I knew.

With respect to her now being on the "market," if she wasn't already, none will experience with her the depth of emotion that I had with her, and whatever mechanical sex she delivers in the privados will be just that. So, to me, others that I know who find their opportunity with her will wonder what all the fuss was about with respect to my feelings for her.

But, suffice it to say that the fuss is about the GFE emotion that she genuinely gave me in the moment, from her heart, legitimate in every way, and that is was distinguishes her from all the others I have known. That is the loss I feel...

But, the hunt continues...

I know for some, this will seem like it does not belong in the Monterrey section because it contains so much detail about what I am thinking, etc...But, truly, it is a trip report of my experience in Monterrey. In an effort to reduce the length of any rebuttal of opposing commentary, please feel free to post in the USB section. Your discretion as to where you choose to comment is yours, but the post is so lengthy it could possibly cause a lot of similiar discussion related issues that might be more appropriate to the USB Section, versus this actually being a trip report and eligible for posting here.

Whome...
Stick to cash, no turn of the card here... stick to cash.
Please mark my words, doesn't matter if the bill is high, stick to cash.

Whome says: "Agreed completely BUT this takes time. The assumption is that the customer is an easy mark until proven otherwise."

Nope... you only need to show you know what you are doing... in your case you showed you were good for the House, I just don't know how good it was to you (well, you got a girls phone number... I got tons of them and I don't even call them at all).
And you are right, you ARE a mark, but for the girls. They will place you on the balance the moment you step in to the club. They can judge in a few minutes if you are good, bad or a total waste of time.

Whome says: "The problem in Mexico, is that the House takes a percentage of EVERYTHING. Sometimes even tips."
Who told you this? Cause you go the story wrong. The house controls EVERYTHING. Everything you pay at a club goes through the House. Girls don't get a percentage, they pay a fix rate to the girls per night, commisions on drinks and a fix rate per VIP privados.
When you pay with credit card, sometimes the girls and the waiters don't see the money coming to them, for weeks
And tips... the waiters get their main income or their whole nightly income from tips. They have no salary coming from the house to add to their pocket.
This is not your case Whome, but it is well known that the poorest tippers are the American tourist that visit Monterrey cause they think that they "punishing" the waiter for a bad service (usually a bad bill), by not tipping thinking that the waiter will be payed anyhow a basic salary.

And Whome... you are so right with the Vegas comparison, but you missed the mark by 20 years and back. Monterrey is like old time Vegas-Italian mafia connection... in those days I used to visit old Las Vegas, and wow, were you subject to people telling you "where 's my tip???"
Once, at the now gone Dunes, we got a dinner bill with a note hand written on it not to forget the 15% tip that sounded more like a threat (in 1997 I read that the Dunes kitchen was controled directly by a relative of one of the Italian Mafia bosses.)

Whome: when you come down to Monterrey... post a post.... lots of place to go.




[QUOTE=Whome69]Carlos Perez, Wellwhome69

"#1. One of the first rules at the clubs is NEVER pay with a credit card. Me, personally, I stoped paying with plastic in the early 90's. "

Agreed but sometimes when you go in with a group. Things get out of control. As a rule, I pay as I go in cash. The last time that I was in Monterrey, this is what happened. Three of us ran through our cash. And guess who got stuck with most of the Bill of about $1000 over our Cash? At least they didn't try to overcharge us. At least by much, if they did. I have a good mind for numbers. No one tried any sheninigans with us at any time. We had a great time. I still have "my" Girl's telephone number. LOL! I did call a week later and she did give me her real number. Just need to get back down there. : (:

"#2 The clubs can be user friendly. Thing is you have to leave a mark, one that shows you are intelligent, that you know how the business runs, and that you might be a potentialy good customer (very important "might be", leave them in doubt that they let go a "very good" customer and they are to blame). "

Agreed completely BUT this takes time. The assumption is that the customer is an easy mark until proven otherwise. A customer shouldn't have to prove anything. Maybe this is the difference with the American/Mexican mentality? The American assume the House and servers are basically "honest" while the Mexican knows better.

My point is IF the House/Server sees that they are dealing with a Tourist who may never come back, then they are toast.

I will pay in Dollars if they have a good exchange rate BUT I use small bills. In the past, I have had to fight for "the $20 for a $5 trick". What I have done in the past is mark my money with my initials. The last two times, they tried this, the house lost. Of course, what doesn't help is that I do not speak Spanish well but I do comprehend at a much higher level.

" #3 I am not a good drinker and USB, Wasted, nor me drink alcoholic beverages, but we do buy the girls drinks, that counts too. "

The same for me. A beer an hour? ! My booze consumption is low for a number of reasons. Of course, it helps to pick a girl who is not a complete cow when it comes to drinks. It helps if you keep them entertained. The problem, for me, is that the Club's Music is sooooooooo loud, I can't hear.

Once I get to know them, I do the Salida method or I see them on their Nights off. Remember I enjoy the GFE.

"#4 Don't worry about the girls being taken in advantage by the clubs. If they feel they are being abused, money being witheld, they just skip the club and move to another one. They are not stupid. They can pretty take care for themsleves. "

Agreed to a point but I think you have to agree that it is more complicated and is really based on economics. If the girl thinks she can make the same without the hassle, she is gone. We both know Clubs that have Homes for some of their girls where they are well taken care of. Their laundry and cooking is done for them. The problem in Mexico, is that the House takes a percentage of EVERYTHING. Sometimes even tips. This is what I resent. The girl is doing the work. Lets face it, the Club can be a realy dive but if they great girls, the guys will show up. BTW, this attitude permeates the Business and is just not Mexican.

"#5 The important thing is obtaining a balance between spending and the fun you obtain. You have to be pretty much on the look out for that because the clubs always have the upper hand"

Agreed. Much like Vegas. This is why I like the Salida approach and/or avoid the Big Glitzy Clubs. A quality choice may not be as good in these other establishments. But you can find a good one. If I remember right, you prefer these "smaller less commercial" Clubs too.

Come to think of it, maybe a good comparison is Vegas over Mexico in terms of customer appreciation and how the Customer is treated? In Vegas, the service people are tip driven but they are not as agressive and the House. Much more laid back.

One of these days, since I live in McAllen, I will get there and spend the night.

[size=-2][b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please [url=http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?]Click Here[/url] for more information.[/blue][/size][/QUOTE]

How's the current price and quality from those newspaper ads where they deliver two or three girls to your hotel/home so you can choose the best?

Back in '95 I paid $200 pesos + the taxi's $50. One hour, all positions, all nude. I had great experiences... What about in the present?

1st, 2nd, and 100th: SORRY to USB for his girl cuttting him off. Even if every single one of us passing on advice to him about her relative merits (or, more likely, DEmerits...), anytime , anyWAY you've managed to overvault the usual bargirl-client relationship is a glorious event, a wave that should be ridden until one crashes and burns.

Re: the whole customer and spending patterns posts, USB is 1000% right about Mexican hooker bars being short-sighted and rather retarded. They'd rather enforce rigid rules than realize that the ODD customer might spend 20x more than the average punter that plays the game the average way. Mexican Hooker Bar Management Schools could surely use a few new case studies! But of course, since the "powers that deny you" get their jobs by being idot relatives to either the money men or star earners, what the hell should anybody expect about their business "acumen"?

As I mentioned to USB last week, re: beer prices, from what I have heard about TJ bars, the single most lucrative beer sellers in all of Mexico, the pony beers they deliver for ladies' drink sales are actually FREE as a volume discount to the bars. When these beers are sold at 7 bucks a pop, it's PURE fucking profit.

Of course, that the average horribly pussywhipped Mexican monger's ONLY expectation is that "his" prostitute that he pays 35+ USD per hour to only LAUGH AT HIS JOKES (usually without ANY sort of touching) actually PAYS that money for NOTHING will only underscore the bottom line that mongering in Mexico is betting against a stacked deck, deck rigged in favor of comparatively over-the-hill, overweight, over-spoiled girls.