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[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]...The main reason to never date a lower class girl, (P4P or not), especially from Isaan is that you can bet that her family will turn out to be a bunch of leeches who's prime motivation will be to suck you dry.[/QUOTE]That's why the advice is: If you want to marry a Thai girl, make sure that she is either filthy rich or doesn't have any relative.
[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]
To make a statement like this shows just how little you know about Thai culture.
If you are involved in anyway with a TG, it will most definitely include her family.[/QUOTE]Thai culture is actually irrelevant to my point.
As I see it Thai culture does not have me in a headlock or control me like some sort of android. I am free to do as I please, and if a TG likes me enough to want to hang out and do things together, then she will also have to accept my terms. So it isn't a matter of not knowing Thai culture, but of individual liberty when I say that there is no necessity to ever live with her or get involved with her family. If it so happened that every single TG would dump me if I refused to have anything to do with her family, then so be it. But somehow I doubt that that would be the case. And if she liked truly loved me, it would be no problem.
Probably I would never want to meet any of her family members. If I were in BKK with a GF, and she went up north or south to visit the family, she would do it alone.
Moreover I might instruct her to keep our relationship a secret like a BF would with his GF regarding his giks. That way they would not even need to know that I exist or that she has a BF.
As to my relationship with a potential TGF, it might be something as light and uninvolved as getting together once a week for a dinner, movie and sex. Some guys might like to have several GFs like this at the same time, maybe a different one for each day of the week! Quite different from a FT live in GF like yours who is basicly a wife.
BTW I have had a number of P4P and non FS MP TGs want to get involved with me outside of work, by going to the disco theatre or for a sleepover, but thus far have declined their offers. Not that these ladies were crazy or disfunctional, as I found them quite sweet and hot, but I am not interested in getting tied down.
[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]
To make a statement like this shows just how little you know about Thai culture.
If you are involved in anyway with a TG, it will most definitely include her family. If you date a TG, you date her family in a sense, as well, to a lesser or greater degree, depending on her background.
In particular, if you date an Isaan girl, especially one from the countryside with a needy family, you can be damn sure that you will not only meet them, but, will become more involved with them, than you care to. You will also encounter loads of relatively obscure relatives and hangers-on, who will crawl out of the woodwork to meet the Farang and hopefully get in on the action.
The main reason to never date a lower class girl, (P4P or not), especially from Isaan is that you can bet that her family will turn out to be a bunch of leeches who's prime motivation will be to suck you dry.[/QUOTE]
Pure generalisation. What a load of bollocks!
[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]Thai TV is largely a cartoon, filled with silliness and hardly reflective of real life in this country.
The main reason to never date a lower class girl, (P4P or not), especially from Isaan is that you can bet that her family will turn out to be a bunch of leeches who's prime motivation will be to suck you dry.[/QUOTE]I cannot agree. Over the years I have had relations with a few NON P4P girls from Isaan in Bangkok. It is all about discrimination. An Isaan girl will never earn anything more than 7000 Bt a month, even if well educated. And then she is only offered a parttime job. I have seen this happening many times. A girl working nightshifts as a receptionist in a well known hotel/ restaurant, Doing 12 hour shifts and got home at the end of the month with 6500 Bt. And this girl had a University degree and speaking perfect English. Another girl working at an Internet shop being paid 210 Bt a day for working 11 hours a day and 80 Bt travel cost to be paid by herself! Many more examples like a cashier earning slightly more as she also shared in the tippings. These girls were born as so called Lo-so's but they never will get a proper change. That situaton is well maintained by all business owners, either they are Thai or Farang. Even our well known pimp Hermann. Has the same attitude. Paying a Mid-So BKK girl much more than a so called Lo-so Isaan girl for the same job.
And the Mid-so girls, they earn much more. The girl I have a relation with now, originates from Bangkok, well educated, still living at home with the whole family but earns over 30K a month, and drives her own car. Works in an international trading company but has a lousy command of English.
But in the end, none of the girls or the family asked me for money. One girl who wanted to setup her own business required 80000 Bt. I wanted to make a deal by giving her 20K, I was willing to invest another 30K when a bank would grant her a loan of also 30K. The bank refused, even with a proper business plan. That is what I call discrimination!
Oh the girl finally got her own business and now makes 30 to 40K each month.
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[QUOTE=Tiger 888]That's why the advice is: If you want to marry a Thai girl, make sure that she is either filthy rich or doesn't have any relative.[/QUOTE]If one is living with a TGF in Canada or any cuntry outside Thailand, as many Farang do, the leeches of her family may be all but exterminated.
Whether she is hiso, midtoe, cuntry bumpkin or BKK pumpkin, they are not likely to be droping in everyday asking for bowls of sticky rice and sometums.
The distance between the couple and the family in Thailand creates a lot of separation, and I'm not talking only about miles.
She will be influenced by another culture, so likely enjoy a degree of freedom from her family's ways and the clutches of the mother cuntry.
BTW there are single TGs already living in foreign cuntries and separated from their families back in LOS.
[QUOTE=Bumholes1]Pure generalisation. What a load of bollocks![/QUOTE]
Afraid I have to agree with Bumholes here that its OTH's normal generalisation which can be true but not always.
One Issaan GF was not keen for me to go to her home town or meet all the relatives immediately for fear of the gossip attached, the assumption that she might be P4P. She was keeping me secret for a good time, in fact for so long that I never did meet much of the family. Only a few selected ones. However she was a very non-typical Thai girl. No one could understand her.
Another ex-GF (non P4P) did introduce me to her immediate family but I never got the feeling that they were trying to leech from me. Perhaps some were trying to leech from her as she lived OS and was assumed to have money.
[QUOTE=Bumholes1]Pure generalisation. What a load of bollocks![/QUOTE]
Sorry, gentlemen. I am 100% correct on this one.
Family plays a major role in any relationship in this country, especially a long-term relationship. The only way to minimize it is to get involved with a girl who's family have money and don't need yours.
I've had many GFs from all levels of society here. In every case, inevitably, whether I wanted to or not, I was dragged into the family dynamics of each girl. This isn't necessarily a bad thing if, as in my current situation they aren't after anything.
But, if they're poor, the whole family will want you to support them, and if you resist, it will become the central theme of discord and break-up. While it's true that this is most common with Isaan girls, as it is a Thai cultural thing, it exists everywhere in the country.
In fact, the worst situation I ever encountered was with a girl from Chiang Rai whose mother, the first time I ever met her immediately started negotiating the dowry (200,000), and how much I would give in monthly support for the family (10,000 baht/month). BTW, this occurred the first weekend I ever met this girl. We had met online. I went to Chiang Rai to meet her. She came to my hotel Friday night and we didn't see the light of day until Sunday afternoon, when her mother showed up at my hotel room to begin negotiations.
I subsequently discovered from a former student, from Chiang Rai to whom I told this story, that there's a long-standing practice there, which still exists in many villages far out in the countryside of families essentially selling off their daughters to the highest bidder and also expecting ongoing financial support from the purchaser. This student, who actually came from a nearby village to that of my GF's said that my GF's village was notorious for still practicing this old custom, which originated in China, from where many of the inhabitants originated. It made perfect sense, as my GF at the time was part Chinese, her grandfather having been born just across the border.
I broke up with the girl about a month later when I discovered she was already married to another Farang who lived in his home country, had already paid the dowry of 200,000 and was sending her and her family 40,000/month. As it turned out, I was going to be pigeon #3, as she had been married once before that, to another Farang. It seemed to be the family business to sell her off. The funny thing was she had a Farang step-father who was well into the whole thing. The epilogue to this story is that her husband found out about me and dumped her. Then, she tried to get back with me, and when I refused, she hooked another particularly well-off Farang with whom she lived a year. But, now, she's back home, online and searching for a new victim.
I had a GF from Roi Et, once who's whole family showed up on my doorstep, unannounced, just after we had started dating and living together to check out, how well we were living, in order to determine just how much they could get out of me. My ongoing resisitance to excessive demands, over the 4 years we were together (although I did give her mother 1500/month) led to many fights and eventually our breakup.
I had another GF from Krabi in the south, who's father is a successful rubber plantation owner and has a bit of money. Yet, when the family decided to build an new and larger house, it was just expected that I would contribute to the cost, as "that's Thai culture", as it was explained to me by my GF.
A side anecdote to this story concerns her sister. She married a Thai guy from Nakhon Sri Thammarat who bought her a 5 million baht house, a Lexus and gave her parents a 500,000 baht dowry. She then dumped him after 6 months and kept everything.
I could cite loads of more examples.
So, you're going to have to come up with more than the word "bollocks" to counter what I am saying.
[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]Sorry, gentlemen. I am 100% correct on this one.
Family plays a major role in any relationship in this country, especially a long-term relationship. The only way to minimize it is to get involved with a girl who's family have money and don't need yours.[/QUOTE]
OMG... I gotta agree with OTH...
My current ex and I are an ex because of a major issue with the brother. While she does not like him he goes to mama, and mama goes to my ex and my ex is pressured into helping the no good SOB...
In almost all of asia you not marry a girl you marry a family if you are lucky and if you are not lucky then you end up marry to a whole clan or tamboon or village... So many sisters and aunties and uncles and cousins and such that need items....
I do not agree the only way to minimize it is to get involved with a rich girl or a well off girl however. There are families and girls and such that are realistic, understanding, and co operative, just hard to find those types.
[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]I'd venture a guess and say I've had far more experience with MidSo, educated girls, than you have had, if for no other reason than I've been here longer. While I've certainly had my share of duds among the many Mid and HiSo girls I've shagged, there have been considerably more who have been truly amazing.
One memorable girl was a former student who arrived one day with a friend, also a former student of mine, who before they screwed my brains out, put on a show in which the two of them did each other, using dildos. There's nothing to heighten things than seeing two former prim and proper students, out of their uniforms, naked and sweaty, ramming dildos into each other.[/QUOTE]Yet another variation on the schoolgirl fantasy, staple of a young man's wet dreams and many ordinary pop songs, and favourite of the compulsive wanker for whom it may hold its force into dotage. This particular tale has the girls as former students to avoid any suggestion of impropriety. Still the picture is clear and even if they're not in uniform the vision is implanted. In younger days I used to fantasise about the car breaking down miles away from anywhere, dark and stormy night, and stumbling upon a girl's boarding school where they looked after my every need. Quite mundane I admit, but I've never been into dildos. On aesthetic grounds. I never thought that this fantasy could ever be realised until, lo and behold, the adventures of OTH and his barking fans, where everything is possible especially to the unsceptical amongst us.
As a newcomer I venture the opinion that maybe this sort of tall tale, along with other feverish imaginings involving such things as 4, 6, 8, 10, 12 orgasm sessions, 10 inch cocks, nympho sisters, girlfriends who more than pay their way etc. All no doubt typed one handed, might more properly belong in another place where those of us with real, although less colourful, sex lives won't feel inadequate by comparison. Although I have heard that multiple orgasms of these numbers could possibly be achieved by the premature ejaculators amongst us. Scientists may care to comment.
Back to the real/unreal world of Bangkok. Best looking girls are definitely the dancers who keep their clothes on in Spice Girls on Cowboy. At least 6 are tall, slim, sexy, beautiful/attractive, and friendly although not for immediate sale. Many other shorter versions of the same although amazing the transformative power of high heels. To my mind these girls set the benchmark for the scores of 8&9 that are being awarded.
[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]Sorry, gentlemen. I am 100% correct on this one.
Family plays a major role in any relationship in this country, especially a long-term relationship. The only way to minimize it is to get involved with a girl who's family have money and don't need yours.
I've had many GFs from all levels of society here. In every case, inevitably, whether I wanted to or not, I was dragged into the family dynamics of each girl. This isn't necessarily a bad thing if, as in my current situation they aren't after anything.
But, if they're poor, the whole family will want you to support them, and if you resist, it will become the central theme of discord and break-up. While it's true that this is most common with Isaan girls, as it is a Thai cultural thing, it exists everywhere in the country.
In fact, the worst situation I ever encountered was with a girl from Chiang Rai who's mother, the first time I ever met her immediately started negotiating the dowry (200, 000), and how much I would give in monthly support for the family (10, 000 baht/month). BTW, this occurred the first weekend I ever met this girl. We had met online. I went to Chiang Rai to meet her. She came to my hotel Friday night and we didn't see the light of day until Sunday afternoon, when her mother showed up at my hotel room to begin negotiations.
I subsequently discovered from a former student, from Chiang Rai to whom I told this story, that there's a long-standing practice there, which still exists in many villages far out in the countryside of families essentially selling off their daughters to the highest bidder and also expecting ongoing financial support from the purchaser. This student, who actually came from a nearby village to that of my GF's said that my GF's village was notorious for still practicing this old custom, which originated in China, from where many of the inhabitants originated. It made perfect sense, as my GF at the time was part Chinese, her grandfather having been born just across the border.
I broke up with the girl about a month later when I discovered she was already married to another Farang who lived in his home country, had already paid the dowry of 200, 000 and was sending her and her family 40, 000/month. As it turned out, I was going to be pigeon #3, as she had been married once before that, to another Farang. It seemed to be the family business to sell her off. The funny thing was she had a Farang step-father who was well into the whole thing. The epilogue to this story is that her husband found out about me and dumped her. Then, she tried to get back with me. She hooked another particularly well-off Farang with whom she lived a year. But, now, she's back home, online and searching for a new victim.
I had a GF from Roi Et, once who's whole family showed up on my doorstep, unannounced, just after we had started dating and living together to check out, how well we were living, in order to determine just how much they could get out of me. My ongoing resisitance to excessive demands, over the 4 years we were together (although I did give her mother 1500/month) led to many fights and eventually our breakup.
I had another GF from Krabi in the south, who's father is a successful rubber plantation owner and has a bit of money. Yet, when the family decided to build an new and larger house, it was just expected that I would contribute to the cost, as "that's Thai culture", as it was explained to me by my GF.
A side anecdote to this story concerns her sister. She married a Thai guy from Nakhon Sri Thammarat who bought her a 5 million baht house, a Lexus and gave her parents a 500, 000 baht dowry. She then dumped him after 6 months and kept everything.
I could cite loads of more examples.
So, you're going to have to come up with more than the word "bollocks" the counter what I am saying.[/QUOTE]Perfect Old Thai Hand. The truth, well done, thx.
The stories of ripoffs and flim-flams generated by Thai females in this country are mind bogglingly pervasive, and many are well known and documented, "My uncle's sick buffalo" probably being among the most famous. Separating loverboy farangs from their lifelong savings is the name of the game here.
Adding to OTH remarks, I too have many many stories regarding the farang-Thai phenomenon here, some are truly hilarious and recited luxuriously over many a pint, but in the end, far too many end up ultimately very very sad.
I now direct you to the online excerpt of the book:
[b]"Sex and Tourism: Journeys of Romance, Love, and Lust"[/b]
[i]By Thomas G. Bauer PhD, Bob McKercher PhD[/i]
(If my PHP-HTML syntax is correct the following link should open directly to page 68):
[b]"The Dyamics of Thai-Foreigner Marriages"[/b]
[url]http://books.google.co.th/books?id=cMbr-XLR4SEC&printsec=frontcover&hl=en&source=gbs_summary_r&cad=0#PPA68,M1[/url]
A foreign guy here in Thailand that doesn't have a firm understanding of the "foreigner male/thai female" relationship, (bf-gf, and all of the inherently misunderstood concepts of money, sex, and extended family life) has a name, and according to 'PT Barnum', one of them is born every minute. Educate yourselves, and don't become one.
[QUOTE=Bumholes1]Pure generalisation. What a load of bollocks![/QUOTE]Well said Bumholes. Totally agree.
This "pure generalisation" is common amongst the Bangkok Teacher Expat community, who think their limited experience around Bangkok Isaan girls gives them the right to know everything about Isaan.
They read a few experiences on internet forums and bulletin boards and this becomes the pure generalisation they then also try to promote on bulletin boards.
There is an element of truth in some cases, but you cannot make a total generalisation.
[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]Sorry, gentlemen. I am 100% correct on this one.
[/QUOTE]
OTH
Maybe you ARE correct insofar as your experiences are concerned, but you are still generalising.
I too am an old thai hand, during which time I have had far too many relationships, mainly with Isaan girls and just 1 from the north - (Phrae). And with more than 90% of them, including my present Isaan wife of 10 years + I have never been leeched, or financially abused. I have NEVER donated to any extended family member. Mother-in law, before her death received from me exactly what my wife gave her monthly before she gave up her factory job for me.
Why is my experience the opposite of yours? Probably because at the start of all relationships I set out my stall. Before becoming involved I tell them there will be no donations to family members, no dowry's should we ever reach that stage , no village parties etc etc. And i can tell you in all honesty, no girl has ever refused to start a relationship because of it, and with those that have lasted more than a short time, there has never been any problem from the family. In fact I am respected for my principles, and the fact that I really take care of my women.
[QUOTE=Bumholes1]OTH
Maybe you ARE correct insofar as your experiences are concerned, but you are still generalising.
I too am an old thai hand, during which time I have had far too many relationships, mainly with Isaan girls and just 1 from the north - (Phrae). And with more than 90% of them, including my present Isaan wife of 10 years + I have never been leeched, or financially abused. I have NEVER donated to any extended family member. Mother-in law, before her death received from me exactly what my wife gave her monthly before she gave up her factory job for me.
Why is my experience the opposite of yours? Probably because at the start of all relationships I set out my stall. Before becoming involved I tell them there will be no donations to family members, no dowry's should we ever reach that stage , no village parties etc etc. And i can tell you in all honesty, no girl has ever refused to start a relationship because of it, and with those that have lasted more than a short time, there has never been any problem from the family. In fact I am respected for my principles, and the fact that I really take care of my women.[/QUOTE]
Bully for you. However, I'd say you are very atypical. There have literally been hundreds of stories over the years about guys buying the farm for their TG and her family. There have been news stories, websites, blogs and even YouTube videos describing this very common scenario.
While I've actually never been leeched from, whenever I made the mistake of getting involved with a girl from a poor family, supporting the family became an issue. I did what you did and stood my ground, when it came to her family, but always took very good care of the girl. But, somehow, this was never quite enough. This is why I'd never go near one of these lower class girls again. My current GF has a good job, and her own money. Her brothers are all cops, make good money and contribute to her parents. Her sister works for a 5-star hotel in Shanghai and sends money home. Her father was a provincial minister and is on a good government pension. Her parents who are educated and intelligent have said that they don't expect a dowry because I'm a Farang and it's not my culture, and also because we've lived together for 3 years.
In any event, I'd say you lucked out because what I have described is generally the norm and what you decribe is the exception.
[QUOTE=Tansak KTV]OMG... I gotta agree with OTH...
My current ex and I are an ex because of a major issue with the brother. While she does not like him he goes to mama, and mama goes to my ex and my ex is pressured into helping the no good SOB...
In almost all of asia you not marry a girl you marry a family if you are lucky and if you are not lucky then you end up marry to a whole clan or tamboon or village... So many sisters and aunties and uncles and cousins and such that need items....
I do not agree the only way to minimize it is to get involved with a rich girl or a well off girl however. There are families and girls and such that are realistic, understanding, and co operative, just hard to find those types.[/QUOTE]
But Tansak,
You haven't had enough long term Thai GFs to know how different it can be.
One of my ex-GFs had to support her family, but I was not involved at all. She worked as a chef outside Thailand and had to support her mother plus others.
So a reasonably self supporting girl is definitely a better option for the guy. I helped support her by not making her pay a share of various things but left her to support the family.
ML
[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]Thai TV is largely a cartoon, filled with silliness and hardly reflective of real life in this country.
.[/QUOTE]
Surely if this were true there would not have been such of an uproar by the Thai airline cabin crew (hi-so / try-so girls) over the antics on the show about the airline? :-)