Manila

Ok guys. You got me totally confused, LOL.

When I arrived in early May I simply gave the immigration officer my passport and a printout of my flight itinerary (e ticket). My return was booked for late June; a total stay of just over 6 weeks. I did not have any visa and he simply stamped my passport with the 21 day one that everybody gets. Did I just lucky because it was late at night when I arrived and perhaps he didn't pay any attention to the dates of my return?

Once I got to Cebu I used a travel agent there (recommended by the concierge at the Quest hotel) to get the 59 day extension. The service charged 4, 530php (3, 030 gov fees and 1, 500 for their service). Considering it would be same day service, I thought it was quite reasonable. But I was a bit apprehensive about giving up my passport to a total stranger (BTW, he did show me identification and I had the front desk make me a copy, no objections on his part). An agent came to the hotel in the morning, we did the paperwork, and he was back later that afternoon with my passport; of course with the visa extension as well as a full printout / receipt of the costs incurred (the gov fees are also stamped into my passport as well, right next to the visa itself).

I took this route based on info I read here and on some other forums as well. Naturally I had a backup plan in case the visa extension was denied (leave the Phils for a day or so and start the 21 day visa over again).

So now I am confused; have they changed the requirements? For my next visit, where I'd like to stay for about 80 days (21 + 59) , do I now need to have the 59 day visa extension in advance?

I've looked on the Philippines' Embassy website and it's not clear there. Nor is the requirement for sending a certified mail or UPS / FedEx type return envelope; although I've always done that when I've gotten other travel visas for some of the former CIS countries I've been to.

WC, was the visa you got beforehand valid for a 90 day stay or did it have to be used within a certain 90 day period? Or just 59 and do they add the 21 days to that when you arrive?

The bottom line; what's the best and safest route for me go to get a total of 80 days in the Phils? The same way I did it before? I want to have my ducks lined up in a row and not have any issues, like being denied entry or being able to get on an airplane, just because of bureaucracy.

[QUOTE=Pip Jaeger; 1327697]Ok guys. You got me totally confused, LOL.

SNIP.

I've looked on the Philippines' Embassy website and it's not clear there. Nor is the requirement for sending a certified mail or UPS / FedEx type return envelope; although I've always done that when I've gotten other travel visas for some of the former CIS countries I've been to.

WC, was the visa you got beforehand valid for a 90 day stay or did it have to be used within a certain 90 day period? Or just 59 and do they add the 21 days to that when you arrive?

The bottom line; what's the best and safest route for me go to get a total of 80 days in the Phils? The same way I did it before? I want to have my ducks lined up in a row and not have any issues, like being denied entry or being able to get on an airplane, just because of bureaucracy.[/QUOTE]You have raised the good question. I've talked to others who did it your way, just show up with an itinerary over 21 days, and get a stamp at Immingration for 21 days, then extend once in-country. I got my extension prior to leaving out of fear that my airline carrier in the US might not let me board in Los Angeles. Pip, where did you fly into Phils from? I've seen two carriers now (Hawaiian and Korean Air) get pissy in the US at the international terminal when the itinerary was incorrect without a visa. Someone else posted that airlines are now being charged for delivering passengers with an itinerary like yours.

My extended visa says 59 days: "Authorized to stay not to exceed fifty-nine (59) days." The issue date was early May, the expiration date is 90 days later in early August. In other words, I could enter anytime between early May and depart by early August, and stay no more than 59 days. I had emailed the embassy several times prior asking questions about certified mail, etc, several months ahead of time. They warned me not to send the visa application until 1 month prior to my travel; saying that once processed by them, there was a 90-day window (in my case, early may. Early August) to complete travel.

On the visa page in my passport, there is a square arrival stamp (red) from my arrival date both on that page, and also on the blank page prior to it. There is also a round departure stamp (green) on the page prior.

BTW, emailing the embassy is truly hit/miss. I would send an email and not get an answer. I'd re-send it every day for a week, and get no reply. I would wait a few days and send it again, and get a reply 5 minutes later. The emails would go back and forth quickly for 2 days, then stop completely again for a week, then start back up for a few days. I would imagine calling on the phone has the same results.

[QUOTE=Pip Jaeger; 1327697]Ok guys. You got me totally confused, LOL.

When I arrived in early May I simply gave the immigration officer my passport and a printout of my flight itinerary (e ticket). My return was booked for late June; a total stay of just over 6 weeks. I did not have any visa and he simply stamped my passport with the 21 day one that everybody gets. Did I just lucky because it was late at night when I arrived and perhaps he didn't pay any attention to the dates of my return?[/QUOTE]Someone may have posted this before, from a Manila newspaper in July:

[url]http://manilastandardtoday.com/www2/2012/07/23/policy-on-tourists-imposed/[/url]

[I]

[B]Policy on tourists imposed[/B]

By Eric B. Apolonio | Posted on July 23, 2012 | 12:07am | 0 Comments

The Bureau of Immigration would impose fines on airlines that allow foreign tourists to board an aircraft and travel to the Philippines without return tickets, airport operations chief Ben Se said on Sunday.

Se said the administrative order on return tickets issued by Immigration Commissioner Ricardo David, which takes effect today, is an international practice, which is implemented in almost all countries in the world.

'This rule is meant to guarantee that a tourist will leave the host country before the lapse of his stay as a temporary visitor, ' David said in his order.

Section 29 of the Immigration Act provides that aliens who arrive as tourists would be excluded and sent back to their port of origin they do not have valid return or onward tickets. [/I]

[QUOTE=Westcoast1; 1327779]Se said the administrative order on return tickets issued by Immigration Commissioner Ricardo David, which takes effect today, is an international practice, which is implemented in almost all countries in the world.

'This rule is meant to guarantee that a tourist will leave the host country before the lapse of his stay as a temporary visitor, ' David said in his order.

Section 29 of the Immigration Act provides that aliens who arrive as tourists would be excluded and sent back to their port of origin they do not have valid return or onward tickets. [/I][/QUOTE]In my experience it should relly read " is never implemented in any other country in the world". Only the Philippines as it likes to make you welcome.

It is enacted with regard to visas so for example, if you travel to Dubai from Manila there is always a massive queue of passengers having their visas checked prior to check in (and then once approved and checked in the immigration officer will deplane that person as the visa is invalid. Pinoy logic!) , even more so if going to Saudi Arabia. That bit is understood by all as airlines do get fined for bringing invalid passengers (ie those without a valid entry visa).

But those without an onward hard copy of their ticket in an age of e tickets?

As I said. Some mongers will eventually get fed up and fly to Thailand or elsewhere if they are inadvertenty hassled on this by over reaching immigration officials

[QUOTE=Pip Jaeger; 1327697]Ok guys. You got me totally confused, LOL.

When I arrived in early May I simply gave the immigration officer my passport and a printout of my flight itinerary (e ticket). My return was booked for late June; a total stay of just over 6 weeks. I did not have any visa and he simply stamped my passport with the 21 day one that everybody gets. Did I just lucky because it was late at night when I arrived and perhaps he didn't pay any attention to the dates of my return?

Once I got to Cebu I used a travel agent there (recommended by the concierge at the Quest hotel) to get the 59 day extension. The service charged 4, 530php (3, 030 gov fees and 1, 500 for their service). Considering it would be same day service, I thought it was quite reasonable. But I was a bit apprehensive about giving up my passport to a total stranger (BTW, he did show me identification and I had the front desk make me a copy, no objections on his part). An agent came to the hotel in the morning, we did the paperwork, and he was back later that afternoon with my passport; of course with the visa extension as well as a full printout / receipt of the costs incurred (the gov fees are also stamped into my passport as well, right next to the visa itself).[/QUOTE]Pip

If you had visited the small office to the left of the immigration booths upon arrival at NAIA you could have got a 59 visa for less than 3000 pesos. I do this when I need and is no hassle, can take up to 15 mins and sometimes you meet the odd interesting characater. Also once you have the visa receipr, you just hop into the queue immediately outside the office that is normally reserved for non westerners (or something that is not for able boied mongers!) and the immigration officer will stamp your passport. No need to be ripped off by any hotel (some guys have had major worries doing what you did as a week later the passport had not been returned)

Now given what I have read on this it does seem there maybe a different 'rule' if flying out of the USA on certain carriers but that would never effect me but I understand if that is a concern then it should be processed in the home country.

If not just get it at the airport on arrival and is much cheaper IMHO

[QUOTE=Wicked Roger; 1327785]Pip

If you had visited the small office to the left of the immigration booths upon arrival at NAIA you could have got a 59 visa for less than 3000 pesos. SNIP.

If not just get it at the airport on arrival and is much cheaper IMHO[/QUOTE]Roger, thanks. Was not aware of that. So, this office is [I]before [/I]the immigration booths, or [I]after [/I]you passed thru immigration (on towards the luggage carousels)?

WC, you need to read more carefully! WR wrote: "Also once you have the visa receipr, you just hop into the queue immediately outside the office that is normally reserved for non westerners and the immigration officer will stamp your passport."

For the record, I once inquired at the Phil embassy in Tokyo and was stunned at all the paperwork and the high cost they wanted. In the end, I paid a travel agent in the Philippines to do it for me and it was much cheaper.

Anyway, good info from WR. I always thought that little office was a place I wanted to avoid! LOL.

[QUOTE=Westcoast1;1327850]Roger, thanks. Was not aware of that. So, this office is [I]before [/I]the immigration booths, or [I]after [/I]you passed thru immigration (on towards the luggage carousels)?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Westcoast1;1327850]Roger, thanks. Was not aware of that. So, this office is [I]before [/I]the immigration booths, or [I]after [/I]you passed thru immigration (on towards the luggage carousels)?[/QUOTE]Is before the immigration booths, Just nest to next to the furthest left booth WC as you walk towards passport contro.

XMan. Is interesting as all the stuff is done by hand! Barely a PC in sight hence it can take more time than it should but saves a lot of hassle but as the luggage takes time it is worth the wait rather than do it later and get worried maybe about giving your passport to an agent etc

[QUOTE=Wicked Roger;1327785]Now given what I have read on this it does seem there maybe a different 'rule' if flying out of the USA on certain carriers but that would never effect me but I understand if that is a concern then it should be processed in the home country.[/QUOTE]Once with Northwest (before merger with Delta) and this June on a Delta / Korean Air combination the ticket agents at my originating airport in the U.S. pressed the issue of the 21 day limit before processing my ticket and luggage. In the first case my return flight left Manila on the 21st day, although my total time in country would have been about 20 and a half days. The agent kept referring to instructions he had about not permitting passage if the Philippine in-country stay was more than 21 days, and I had to walk him carefully through the calendar math to convince him I was within the 21 day limit. On my June flight I was staying in country 28 days. The ticket agent (Delta) pointed out the 21 day limit. I advised her I had a Philippine 59 day visa stamped in my passport. She couldn't make sense of it, or maybe didn't believe what she was reading, so called over a more senior agent. It took them 25 minutes to figure out whether or not to process me through. After a phone call to somebody else they let me go through, but this left me anxious about getting my checked bags through TSA and onto my flight, since they sometimes go through international bound bags more thoroughly. Fortunately my first flight was not very full, or the crush of other passengers might have screwed my chances of getting on the flight.

BTW, I processed the visa through the Philippine embassy in Washington. Application form, money order, two photos and return express mail packaging via USPS, and the total turnaround time was about ten days. I'd rather jump through these extra hoops for advance visa processing than run the chance of having Delta bump me from my flight at the last minute.

I use the luggage time to load the PI phone, find a hotel room, and line up a few "dates in asia".

Seriously, this is great info and I sincerely hope to take advantage of it someday. Unfortunately, I rarely get 21+ day holidays. X.

[QUOTE=Wicked Roger; 1327932]Is before the immigration booths, Just nest to next to the furthest left booth WC as you walk towards passport contro.

XMan. Is interesting as all the stuff is done by hand! Barely a PC in sight hence it can take more time than it should but saves a lot of hassle but as the luggage takes time it is worth the wait rather than do it later and get worried maybe about giving your passport to an agent etc[/QUOTE]

Good info SKost. I sometimes have reason to go to Detroit, so this is good to know.

I was once trying to take a bicycle on an international flight on NWA. Same story. 25 min looking thru manuals. I stayed patient and stayed friendly, and they found the no cost option. Patient and friendly is not my usual modus operandi, but, as KR sings, You got to know when to hold 'them, know when to fold 'them.

[QUOTE=Skip Kost; 1327951]Once with Northwest (before merger with Delta)

SNIP< SNIP.

I'd rather jump through these extra hoops for advance visa processing than run the chance of having Delta bump me from my flight at the last minute.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Pip Jaeger;1327697]So now I am confused; have they changed the requirements? For my next visit, where I'd like to stay for about 80 days (21 + 59) , do I now need to have the 59 day visa extension in advance?[/QUOTE]My wingman last time stayed 35 days and he organised his extension in Australia. He was told that because of his flight out (35 days) he had to have his visa aranged in advance. Hope this helps

Gentlemen, thanks for all of the helpful info.

I flew on United out of JAX, FL (via Houston, Hawaii, and Guam). A bit of a hassle with all of the connections, but the best and least costly I could do on short notice. It looks like it was just dumb luck; dumb luck in the sense that I selected a carrier that does not enforce, up to a point, the PI advance visa requirement for stays exceeding 21 days.

Earlier today I called United's help desk. I was informed that they will allow you to travel, and more importantly board the aircraft, whether or not you have the proper visa beforehand. They realize that some travelers don't have the time to get an extended stay visa ahead of time, which was my case back in May. They presume that you will get the visa either upon arrival or within the 21 day visa time frame given upon entry.

But, and this is a big BUT, if you fail to get the proper visa and they are fined (up to $5, 000 USD) , the fine plus all other associated costs, legal fees, taxes, levies, etc are passed onto you the traveler. That's supposedly buried somewhere in the pages of gobbledy gook fine print that you have to agree to, but never really read, when you initially purchase your ticket.

The fact that immigration let me though without the proper visa was again probably just dumb luck or they hope that you will not get the visa and they can collect a big fine. Had the officer counted the actual days, instead of perhaps just seeing a May arrival and a June departure, then he most likely would have referred me to the office that WR mentioned (unless of course they're really hoping to collect the fine).

Incidentally, I just counted the days of the extension stamped in my passport. I didn't bother with it before; I only glanced at the expiration date (July) and noted that it was after my actual departure date in June. The total was indeed for a total of 59 days from my initial arrival date, so my thinking of getting a total of 80 days was flawed. Sorry, my bad; whip me, beat me, spank me with a spoon (and no WR, even though I know a few ladies who'd do it, I'm just kidding; I'm a Dom too, LOL).

I guess I'll be cutting my next trip back to 58. 999 days, LOL. I'll probably play it safe too and get the visa ahead of time. Or if I really want to stay longer, I'll have to a get the multiple extensions in advance; then leave the Phils for at least 24 hours near the end of my first visa (hmmm, maybe a quick hop over to Pattaya for some "Thai Pie"?).

[QUOTE=X Man; 1328021]Good info SKost. I sometimes have reason to go to Detroit, so this is good to know.

I was once trying to take a bicycle on an international flight on NWA. Same story. 25 min looking thru manuals. I stayed patient and stayed friendly, and they found the no cost option. Patient and friendly is not my usual modus operandi, but, as KR sings, You got to know when to hold 'them, know when to fold 'them.[/QUOTE]I guess we all have amusing airline stories. Once, when I was working and living in Manila, I took a vacation to Phuket. Checking in for return flight from Phuket to Manila, the check in staff told me that my work permit in my passport wasnt correct. Replied it was issued in Manila so I was quite sure it was correct, specially as it was the 3rd consecutive one in my passport. Showed them my business cards also. Still they said its not correct, it doesn't match the photocopy of a valid work permit that they had in their manual.

Suggested maybe the manual version was incorrect but no they said, that couldn't be. Thais don't make mistakes I was told. Yeah right!

OK I suggested, if its not valid, then how is it I've been able to travel to Indonesia to manila, Hong kong to manila, China to manila, uk to manila etc and showed the relevant passport stamps. A long period of attrition followed. A Thai standoff. Manager eventually gets involved, and I get my boarding pass. Patient and friendly isn't my strong suit either!

[QUOTE=X Man;1328019]I use the luggage time to load the PI phone, find a hotel room, and line up a few "dates in asia".[/QUOTE]Have you found a place to buy load or simm cards before passing out through customs? Is this Terminal one?

Doing business on your phone from the luggage area reflects the laid-back nature of the Phils. In the states they prohibit cell phone or camera use anywhere in the immigration or customs / luggage area. And there are officials walking around enforcing it. I guess this is a plus for the Phils (?)