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[QUOTE=Kurenda]Here's how registration form in the OVIR looks. Guess most of you will not be ready to go with this.[/QUOTE]Yes! This is the exact same form used by the Post Office in Moscow. Someone laid a ruler down on the dotted line and tore off the bottom part. This is what Irina gave to me.
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank] I get it. So there is no reason to get registered at all?[/QUOTE]
Doc, yes there IS a reason but no reason for YOU to worry about or instigate registration.
The onus is all on your host whether commercial or personal acquaintance.
The tourist/visitor has now been removed from the registration equation...
(Unless as we discussed before you want to save some money, avoid being over-charged for it or spare friends a fair bit of inconvenience).
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]And when and if the police ask for registration you just tell them you are in apartment so and so? Or tell them what exactly?
[/QUOTE]
You show them your passport and visa (photo-copies recommended).
They have no business asking you for proof registration anymore.
On the off-chance that you run into an officer or two who fancy you're going to be the sponsor of their next night out by levying an 'on-the-spot' fine for "non-registration" through your ignorance, you tell them you either want to go directly to the police station with them and/or you will get immediately in touch with your embassy.
The conventional wisdom is that this is best communicated through the medium of English even if you are a Russian speaker.
Here endeth the matter...
Don't know your circumstances but if I understand correctly you're staying in a short-term apartment so why is there a problem with the landlord registering you him/herself ???
Unless it belongs to a friend and you wish to spare them the hassle then Kurenda's post is very helpful.
Unfortunately the deeper we go into this the more capacity for confusion but the gist is included above...
All clear ???
Gergiev,
It's difficult for us to accept what you say because it goes against all of our experience until now.
I take it there has been some recent change in Russian law which specifies that foreign citizens traveling in Russia are no longer responsible to provide proof of registration on demand?
If so, any place we can go to find corroboration of this?
We just want to be sure that we have some legal footing before we tell the Militsia to "Идите к черту" [go to the devil].
Strav,
Yes this informations are published on official website of russian Foregin ministry. I've read them there last year.
The address is:
[url]www.mid.ru[/url]
Everything is in russian language!
Click on "Консульские вопросы" and then on "Текущая информация"
There you have informations by date, try september 2008 or near.
There shuold by listed MS Word format documents about visa issuing for foreginers and registrations. There are whole bunch od laws from 1995, 1998, 2002, 2003, etc. It is obvius Russia is changig this laws every two years and they are usually not publiclly available. Result is that many foreginers as well as russian citizens are confused and don't know what to do. So there is pleany of space to rip off - foreginers of course.
The registration document I posted is the one from the OVIR and yes it is use in the post offices now. Check the year it is 2006 and then it was not possible to register at the post office. Original OVIR forms have a red serial number and line where form is separated is machine perforated. Post office forms are photocopy and torn by hand as you say. You receive a bottom part. Keep in mind this document is needed as proof that you are registred at the street adress (not hotel) in case you need to proove you're staying somewhere - if you stopped by police, in medical emergency, etc. when leaving the Russian at the border you are not ask for this document but only for migration card (sometimes not for it either).
Strav, about ""печать организации". Keep in mind this stamp is not a proof of registration. If you are foreginer it only means that you have a bussines with your parters in Russia or that you are working for them. Foreign students at russian universities have there stamp of their university. Which only shows they study there. They must have registration at student dormitory or street address where they are staying. This "печать организации" shows to police or FSB the place of your bussines deal and at the same time you can stay in the hotel and be registred there.
This form for post office registration clearly says "must be filled in russian language, clearly in capital letter, using black or dark blue ink pen".
So if you don't speak russian it is obvious someone must do this for you.
In order to register at the post office you must have a document with address of your "host" (ID card or passport) so his address can be put in the form. Of course this "host" must be registered in Moscow (for example) address also because russian citizens must be registred in their place of living. This is called "propiska". So you can not register at the street address in Moscow if your "host" have his registration at address in Novosibirsk and is living illegally in Moscow. You must have your "host" there to put his address in the form. Or you can do it for yourself (if your russian is good enough) and your "host" is willing to give you his document. This is only done if you're their good friend or pay hard cash. But surelly it is much less than those agencies "fast and easy registration - 250$".
Pay attention there is another registration form. It looks like this:
[url]http://www.fmsrf.ru/images/documents/raz_vp/raz_vp.jpg[/url]
This is for temporaly staying in russian territory 6-12 months for non commercial purposes. Like students, artists, cultural exchange, etc. For legal work there is different form.
If you are staying at the hotel, they have obligation to register you as their guest. You don't need to do anything in this case. As we can see some hotels stamps migration card and some don't. But be sure they have you in their computer just in case someone is looking for you. Actually this is very usefull because there is proof you really arrived in Russia. According to official data 265 persons from "distant abroad" are reported missing in Russia in 2008.
To clear things about registration.
According to russian law all foreginer citizens who are staying in Russia longer than 3 days must register within 72 hours. This is 3 working days, without weekends. Also if you are staying for example a week in Moscow and then want to go to St. Petersburg again you must register in 3 days at new place/hotel.
Many of the people here arrive to Moscow for a short period of few days.
Simply for that time you don't need to register and also be completelly legal.
Temp your time to arrive Friday as earlier as possible (so you can use this day). You arrive at the airport and you migration card is stamped with Friday date. So now you have three days to register. Friday at midnight is day one. Then there comes Saturday and Sunday which doesn't count. After weekend is Monday (day two for registration), Tuesday (day three for registration - by midnight). So simply you enjoy total of 5 days with registration. Plan to arrive as early on Friday and leave as late as possible on Tuesday but before midnight. So you can make the most of your time for fun, bussiness, anything else. Of course if you're staying in hotel then this doesn't matter. But it is usefull for those who stay in rented apartment for short period of time and those people who are arriving for the first time in Russia (Moscow or St. Petersburg where most people usually go).
Also there are other trick how to stay even longer in Russia without registration for a long period. I usually stay in Russia for the whole month and I don't register for the most period of time. I usually move along from city to city. I in the hotel in Moscow, the one who will stamp your migration card. Then I insist to pay my bill day by day. The hotel administration puts a stamp on the back of the migration card saying I'm registered for that day only. Tommorrow I pay for another day and get another stamp saying I'm registered for one day more. And so on and untill I get 5-6 stamps on the back on the migration card depending on the size of the stamps. And then simply there are no more empty space on the back on migration card to add new stamps. You can not recieve new migration card since they comein pair and hotel staff simply don't add you new stamps. So it's time to change your locatin. Moving in with some dyev in Moscow who will take you in and there is no need to register. If you are stoped by cops you can always explain that migration card is full. Or you can head on to some other city and don't bother to register there. Example is if you'r renting apartment in St. Petersburg. If you're stopped by cops and they see you have registration at the Moscow hotel but not registration in St. Petersburg you say you just arrived that day and and need to stay in hotel. And just repeat the same story over and over again when you're stoped by cops. And in most cases this is never. Only if you have bad luck and you're stopped by twice by the same cop and he recognizes you - but whatare the chances for this? When you return, at the airport they will see you had your registration on migration card and it's not your fault it's full.
About the information police doesn't have the right to stop tourist/visitor and ask for registration I doubt this is true. According to russian law the fine for problems with via or registration is 1800- 3600$ in cash and ban on entering Russia for 5 or 10 years (valid for Belarus also). So it is better not to confront police and getting in the arguments with them. Of course don't give them your money but keep this in mind. You are in their country and they are authority and usually it's they who are in the right.
Gents, sorry for such a long post but I hope you will find some usefull info here.
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[QUOTE=Stravinsky]Gergiev,
It's difficult for us to accept what you say because it goes against all of our experience until now.
I take it there has been some recent change in Russian law which specifies that foreign citizens traveling in Russia are no longer responsible to provide proof of registration on demand?
If so, any place we can go to find corroboration of this?
We just want to be sure that we have some legal footing before we tell the Militsia to "Идите к черту" [go to the devil].[/QUOTE]
Strav, the changes I'm referring to occurred in Jan 2007.
I don't have the documents to hand that I had back then but I'll post the following below from the excellent waytorussia site...
[url]www.waytorussia.net[/url]
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The new Russian visa registration procedure came into force on 15 January 2007. We've been waiting for a few days before posting this information to get some clarifications from the officials and now have all the details to explain the changes.
Basically, the registration procedure is much easier now. The registration can be submitted by post and you get a special confirmation that this was done, which is the proof of registration (no more stamps).
You don't have to do everything by yourself. Just go to the agency that provided your visa support and they'll do the registration for you instantly just by submitting a special paper to migration officials by post. Doing it once will suffice.
If you order your visa support through the companies advertised on Way to Russia, they will all be able to provide you the registration, whether you're on a tourist or a business visa. It's going to be instant, as they will just have to send your info to the authorities and give you the confirmation.
[b]The other good news is that the Russian police (in all cities!) was instructed NOT to stop foreigners for registration checks any more. They can still do it if they have a special operation against terrorism going on. But from now on if anybody stops you for a routine check, just demand their number ("vash nomer") and tell them that you'll complain in MVD (Ministry of Internal Affairs). That will send them off. [/b]
Note, that even though the rules came into force on 15 Jan, it'll take a couple of month for the authorities to get used to them and to issue the new registration forms.
In the meanwhile, just get your registration in the office of your inviting company or at OVIR if the city you're visiting doesn't have an office of your inviting organization (a copy of your invitation will suffice for them to register you and if any other document is required, our partner visa company will provide them at no charge for those who ordered invitations through way to russia).
Since there's no paperwork and no centralized computer database available yet, a simple answer that registration took place in the
cities visited during the trip should suffice if you are inquired about your registration at the passport control or by police. It's still recommended to register, but the new rules make it very hard for the authorities to prosecute you before they issue the official new registration form and set up the database.
Here is a detailed explanation of the new registration process:
1. Every foreigner who arrives to Russia still has to register the visa. However, the procedure became much easier.
2. The registration can be made by the "accommodating" party, which can be anything: from the hotel where you're staying, to your landlord. It can also be the organization, which provided your visa support, but not necessarily. Basically, now you can choose who registers you, whatever is easier.
3. The "accommodating" party just needs to fill out a special registration form and send it by post to the officials. You will get the second part of this form confirming that your registration has been submitted (called "talon"). That is your registration and you should carry it with you. No more stamps.
[b]4. Migration cards will still be required, but they are completely separate from the registration now. [/b]
5. When you leave Russia you should give the second part of your registration form to the "accommodating" party and they should submit it to the migration officials within 24 hours. If that doesn't happen, you're blacklisted, which may incur problems when you visit Russia again.
That's why we recommend you do your registration through reliable organizations (or people). Basically, if you want to be 100% sure it's better to do everything through your hotel (if you trust them) or the company that arranged your visa support.
6. You still need to inform the authorities about your stay in each city where you spend more than 3 business days. But then of course they don't have any way of knowing when you arrived...
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If you read down you'll see the relevant section regarding the police situation.
This is also the change in the law that enables Kurenda or yourself or whoever to complete registration in the Post Office instead of wasting a complete day or so in the OVIR.
Let me put it back to you like this...
In the last two years how many people do you know have been stopped and fined by the Militsa for non-proof of registration ?
The only place where you do produce your migration card is at the point of departure which now doesn't have to carry the registration stamp anymore.
So thousands of people are leaving Russia every day now without producing "proof" of registration if you understand my point...
In fact some of these will never have registered at all but that's another story...
I'm a little pushed for time right now so could have written more thoroughly but have a look at the above and tell me what you think or if you have direct or anecdotal evidence to contradict my reasoning...
[QUOTE=Kurenda]Gergiev I payed registration in Samara post office 170 rubels.
[/QUOTE]
That's around what I would have expected.
I think it was either 120R or 140R when introduced in 2007.
[QUOTE=Kurenda]
Registration is obligatory in Russia and there can be problems sometimes.
[/QUOTE]
"Officially" it is but actually there is some legal and empirical evidence that in some cases it's not.
For example if you spend time in Russia and don't exceed 3 "business" days in any one location, it's a moot point whether you do need to register or not.
I know of some people who have done just this and exited the country no problem under the "new" system (no reg stamp on migration card).
The official line is that you must be registered within your first 72 hours but some visitors are chancing it based on the above situation and I haven't heard yet of any of the ones that I know of having problems.
I'm just pointing this out btw and not advocating such an approach...
[QUOTE=Kurenda]Are you sure about this?
Just returned from Russia and my migration card was stamped on the back with hotel stamp and signed by administrator. You don't need to "show" migration card at the airport, it is simply taken away.[QUOTE]
Kurenda, there is no longer a requirement to stamp the card but some hotels or hostels still do so.
For example, on my last trip I got a stamp on the card in one city and a receipt and no stamp in another...
[QUOTE=Kurenda]Some answers for you gentlemen.
Registration at the OVIR is usually the gamble. Sometimes it can be finished very fast and sometimes it can last for ages. I usually don't stay in Moscow or stay for a short time. I'm usually in provinces, in far away places and small places. My fastest time to register at OVIR is 20 minutes and the longest is 7 hours. The reason was small town - no foreigners arrived - no need to register anyone. And they simply did not had any forms to fill. At ovir you have to fill "arrival notification" or in russian уведомление о прибитии иностранного граждадина (sorry if this is not correct). This a big paper which has to bi filled on both sided and then cut in half and you keep one part. Basically this is not used to register at the hotel but at the privet apartment. I usually stay that way. Not renting but staying with the friends.
Owner of the apartment should be present ther with you at the registration. But I only take passport of the owner and this is it. But this is not recommended to typical foreginer. You need to know russian laguage to fill in the form and be ready to deal with russian administraion machine. There are agencies who will do it for you but of course for hard cash as many of you might know. As Doctor Skank said there is no need to register at the private apartment because there must be owner of the apartment present there with you. This is not by law but there should not be problems. Of course there is always a risk. I visit Russia from long time ago back in the times of USSR and then the only way to register was OVIR so I stick with that.
Registration in the police and post office is also posible. But to register at the post office you need address of staying. Recently I registered at the post office in Samara. The part of the post for the registered and valuable letters. It was easy, I finished in about 15 minutes. A legal address is needed, so I had with me my host and I was registered at his address as his guest.
Since I'm sure 95% of foreign visitors are staying in Moscow or St. Petersburg. Hotel will finish everything for you. But if you are in Norilsk in far Siberia it is good to know some other options.
Now there is talking here about russian visas.Russian government approved new regulations about visas in september 2008. Registration in post office and police is from this new regulations but also osme new visa regulations:
- now it is only possible to get russian visa in country whose citizen you are.
- vissa issuing last now 15 days (before it was the more you pay the faster you get the visa)
Anybody having some expericances with this?
Strav it is possible your migration card is not taken at the airport. It is less work because all those migration cards has to be processed. I often leave Russian at the ground border and I saw many times my migration card it simply thrown away in the garbage. Some customs workers will do their job properly and some don't care.
If you want to save 50 bucks you can have your friends in Moscow register you at their address. It is the same as Irina did for you but it is a question if you can really save that money.
There are many ways for Russians to take money out of the foreigner. And that "visa registration" is just one of them. Registration at the post office is no problem at all but you need to have a local address of staying. And this is what most foreigners simply don't have.
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Kurenda, thanks for that.
Very good report which covers a lot of the ground recently chewed over here.
Take your point about "visa registration" being a way to fleece foreigners.
On a previous visit I travelled (legally) around 5 cities on one registration whereas some uninformed visitors might have ended up paying 5 times for this "service" at unreasonable hotel registration rates...
Any ideas on how to get the sweet smell of ass off your hands, dick and face?
Showering and scrubbing have only been 80% effective and my ex is showing up in about an hour. Girls can smell other girls about 100 meters away and not only does my entire apartment smell like ass and sex, but so do I.
Thoughts?
Doc,
At this point I think there are only 2 options;
1. Cover up the smell with something else, and then make an excuse about it. You are burning incense because you just became a Buddhist. Or you started smoking cigars in honor of Fyedor Castrov.
2. Make up some excuse about why you are wearing perfume. Maybe you were shopping at TSUM and got spritzed by one of the perfume girls. Doesn't really explain how you got it on your dick though...
Gergiev, hope my posts clarified some things.
But be sure of one thing. Russian governmen is changig visa and registration regulations all the time. Most people in Russia and abroad and simply not familiar with that. Which leads to lots of confusion. Way to Russia is just a place on the net. If you check their forum about visa you will see there are many people who need to resolve their doubts and questions about Russian visa.
But on the other hand it's not that bad. Visa and registration in Russia is peace of cake when compared to Belarus. There is real pain in the ass.
Doc, try choping larger quantity of onion.
Also pour beer in few glases and let then stay there.
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]
As my ex is showing up my entire apartment smell like ass.
[/QUOTE]
if she's YOUR ex, she probably expects you to still have your tongue in some teen's colon.
[QUOTE=Kurenda]
Now there is talking here about russian visas.Russian government approved new regulations about visas in september 2008. Registration in post office and police is from this new regulations but also osme new visa regulations:
- now it is only possible to get russian visa in country whose citizen you are.
- vissa issuing last now 15 days (before it was the more you pay the faster you get the visa)
Anybody having some expericances with this?[/QUOTE]
When were these supposed to take effect? As far as I've heard, it's still permitted to get a visa in any country where one may reside for at least 90 days. There was one exception, as I recall, for German citizens (no doubt due to reciprocity) as they may only receive a visa in Germany. And time required depends upon the particular consulate but usually takes only a day or two if expedited.
Can you give a link for these new regulations?
Pizdyets,
I posted a link about this in one of my previous posts. It's official link of russian Foreign ministry.
The current direction of the russian government is to make visa agreements with individual countries. The agreements are different depending on the country - reciprocity is always present.
Last I know is about Norway. Russia and Norway signed visa agreement taking effect from November 2008. It says than norwegian citizens can get their visa in Oslo only (in russian embassy) and the process in minimum 10 days. This is valid for tourist visas up to 30 days. For other type of visas there will be new agreement "after talks of both sides".
Of course all this is just a regualtion. In russian terms it means it can be uphold seriously and also not.
As I said before russian visa regualtions are changing all the time and this is not public process, which makes thing confusing. If anyone can check website of russian migration agency there is a forum where thousands of people ask various questions about visas. Both about russian citizens going abroad and foreigners coming to Russia.
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[QUOTE=Pizdyets]When were these supposed to take effect? As far as I've heard, it's still permitted to get a visa in any country where one may reside for at least 90 days. There was one exception, as I recall, for German citizens (no doubt due to reciprocity) as they may only receive a visa in Germany. And time required depends upon the particular consulate but usually takes only a day or two if expedited.
Can you give a link for these new regulations?[/QUOTE]According to a visa website I read you may get a visa in any country in which you have a residency permit.