Bangkok Reports

[QUOTE=Nauskas]...
The Reds are well organized and well funded. Those in the zone are paid 800-1000 baht a day, which is a lot of money for a country boy.
...
[/QUOTE]Nauskas,

Sorry, if I will meet an idiot within the next few days will call him Nauskas.

I have been in the "red zone" many times during the past weeks and talked to the red shirts. Yes, there are some which are paid to be there. Especially before the 10.04., when 27 people were killed. Some of the people staying over night were paid.

I cannot give an estimation about how many were paid - but I am quite sure that even then it was not more than 25 % of the crowd.

After the 10.04. the situation changed dramatically. I could understand the argumentation that there are some "strange" groups now which have joined the demonstrations, groups that would also do their job for the yellow shirts. I would definitely agree with that.

[b]But not many are willing to take the risk to get killed for being paid a bit for staying at Rajprasong Intersection under the actual circumstances.[/b]

I am definitely critical towards the political intention of the red shirts, and I think they gave away the chance for a compromise last week.

But to simply talk bullshit does not help anybody!


Giotto

A lot of thanks to Field Commander Giotto spending so much of his time for frequent updates and analyses !

LP for the many

[QUOTE=Giotto]Guys,



[B]But you guys better stay in your hotels![/B]


Giotto[/QUOTE]
Overreaction big time! If you're in the Suk area, no need to stay indoors. Go out and get laid for god's sake! Geeeeeeez!!!!!!!!!

What I don't get in all of this is the tactic of the military/government. What are they thinking, if at all, in terms of riot-control:

1. First they let the Reds establish fortified camps for weeks, let them secure infrastructure such as food, water, supplies, telecom etc.
2. Then they send these nervous 18 yr. old recruits with M16s to do what? To shoot and kill? Practically unarmed civilians, throwing New Year's firecrackers?

What options do you have in dispersing and dissolving crowds if you carry a M16? Conditions such as these are dissolved with water cannons and tear gas, and other non-lethal techniques, maybe rubber bullets, but not with weapons meant to fight a military conflict. This is stupid, but again, TIT.

[QUOTE=Amjeck]Overreaction big time! If you're in the Suk area, no need to stay indoors. Go out and get laid for god's sake! Geeeeeeez!!!!!!!!![/QUOTE]Damned,

why am I doing all this?

We have the pre-defined hot zone around Rajprasong Intersection (Google map) - guys, let's go out, Saxophone, a good Blues/Jazz bar at Victory Monument. Have your beer, and then try to go home - and suddenly there are some problems there - everybody is hiding in some corners. Yes, that's an overreaction. Shootings, one dead ...

I also heard some rumours today, that some [b]Thai military officers[/b] recommended to some guests to move from a hotel in Soi 19 up Sukhumvit! I did not write about that, because I don't want anybody to believe that I write here to fill up Livingstone's Lodge!

Fact is that everybody expected problems today in the hot zone around Rajprasong, but we had problem today in

- Rama IV
- Bon Kai
- Klong Toey
- Pratunam
- Victory Monument
- Rachadapisek Road
- Petburi Road
- Thon Buri Bridge
- Saladaeng
- Lumpini Park
- Din Daeng intersection
- some more smaller problems

We have since a few hours State of Emergency in 5 more states, in the North-East. In some areas serious problems.

We have new "holidays" tomorrow and the day after.

The stock market will be closed tomorrow.

What the hell do you people think is going on here? And - [b]yes, nothing happened up to now in the lower Sukhumvit area[/b] - but do you really want me to write that I think it is a safe zone?

No, I will not! I think as a family father - so, better stay in your hotels at the moment!

Damned shit!!!


Giotto

Giotto, thanks for your efforts to keep us informed. I think that you are providing more accurate and up to date information than any other source available. And very good advice.

Some folks just don't or won't understand how volatile and dangerous this type of situation is. I've been at a street party where it changed from a friendly good time to a violent, destructive riot in a matter of seconds.

Risky behavior is exciting.

Suddenly getting caught up in out of control violence sucks.

It CAN happen to you!

[QUOTE=Naughty]...
It CAN happen to you![/QUOTE]Thanks, Naughty,

May be you found the better words than I did.

Very tired.


Giotto

PS:

To all who know it better:

This is a lose-lose situation for both government and red shirts. The government is under enormous pressure because of the sniper killings, and the red shirts know they cannot win a fight against the army. If the army really decides to clear Rajprasong they WILL present pictures about weapons found there - whether they really found those weapons there or not does not matter - the pictures will be presented and will be published in the international press. Not sure, whether the world will believe or not ...

Now - if two seriously involved parties cannot win a fight - who is the the winner, who benefits of this development?

It is definitely possible that a third party is playing the game - and we all don't know what these people are going to do next!

[QUOTE=Giotto]We have new "holidays" tomorrow and the day after.

The stock market will be closed tomorrow.

What the hell do you people think is going on here? And - [b]yes, nothing happened up to now in the lower Sukhumvit area[/b] - but do you really want me to write that I think it is a safe zone?
Giotto[/QUOTE]

No, indeed! Let's not be childish. And I mean "childish" literally, because children don't understand the concept of risk. Daddy says something's dangerous, a child decides to do it nevertheless (when dad's not looking) and... hey, nothing bad happens. Weeeee! It just shows daddy's wrong!

Surely the Red Shirts, with the government's noose tightening around their necks and the showdown, apparently, timed for Monday and Tuesday, perceive two strong incentives: (1) break out of their enclave and fight their way through; (2) get their supporters from elsewhere in Thailand into BKK to open a couple of other fronts. If scenario (1) materialises then the lower Sukhumvit area is at risk. If scenario (2) materialises then everywhere is at risk.

[QUOTE=Frankfurter]What I don't get in all of this is the tactic of the military/government. What are they thinking, if at all, in terms of riot-control:

1. First they let the Reds establish fortified camps for weeks, let them secure infrastructure such as food, water, supplies, telecom etc.
2. Then they send these nervous 18 yr. old recruits with M16s to do what? To shoot and kill? Practically unarmed civilians, throwing New Year's firecrackers?

What options do you have in dispersing and dissolving crowds if you carry a M16? Conditions such as these are dissolved with water cannons and tear gas, and other non-lethal techniques, maybe rubber bullets, but not with weapons meant to fight a military conflict. This is stupid, but again, TIT.[/QUOTE]
This is spot on...what really frightens me is if the army send in armoured vehicles to break down the barriers.
What a way to screw up my holiday :-(((

So I am not in Bkk or anywhere near. And I have tried to read the international news. BBC, CNN and so on. I have gone to Bangkok Post, all to find real information about what goes on on the ground in Bangkok.

Then I got the idea to look here, and lo and behold if Giotto isn't providing short and specific information way more precise than waht have seen anywhere else.

Thank you Giotto for that

And all good thoughts to all you folks in Bkk at the moment. Keep safe, will you!

[QUOTE=Giotto]

What the hell do you people think is going on here? And - [b]yes, nothing happened up to now in the lower Sukhumvit area[/b] - but do you really want me to write that I think it is a safe zone?

No, I will not! I think as a family father - so, better stay in your hotels at the moment!

[/QUOTE]
I don't think guys came from across the world to sit in hotel room. I think lower suk is safe, I'm out there everynight. Lots of troops and police with guns about.

Nana gogo girls selling it for 1000ST.

The army needs to do a better job of ridding the streets of the low life "reds", however.

[QUOTE=Naughty]Giotto, thanks for your efforts to keep us informed. I think that you are providing more accurate and up to date information than any other source available. [/QUOTE]
You're info is valuable and appreciated. I just think telling guys to stay in their hotel rooms is a little over the top. Seize this opportunity and take advantage of the deals out there.

[QUOTE=Amjeck]I don't think guys came from across the world to sit in hotel room. I think lower suk is safe, I'm out there everynight. Lots of troops and police with guns about. [/QUOTE]
Might well be "safe" according to your standard, but nobody with sense in his mind would walk around as a tourist, to say the least, with "lots of troops with guns about"
BTW: mongering is an activity one can realy and easily do...in trhe hotel room!

[QUOTE=Amjeck]
Nana gogo girls selling it for 1000ST.
[/QUOTE] Sorry but I do not think their rates can be taken as an account of "business as usual"

[QUOTE=Amjeck]
The army needs to do a better job of ridding the streets of the low life "reds", however.[/QUOTE]and do you think that in doing that, seen also the recent escalation, they will take too much carfe in differentiating people?
and don't you think that some "bad boy" can try to mix with "good boys" ?

I am not in BKK but I think Giotto's advise is full of common sense.

[QUOTE=Nauskas]It was an M-224 that was noted to have been used. Most likely it is old stuff with a range under 1.5 km. (Asok is beyond the spots like Sala Daeng or the box) Considering the reds are mostly packing sling shots, bows and arrows and fire crackers, it doesn't seem useful to blow it out of proportion.[/QUOTE]Thing about a mortar is, if it's not used by a SKILLED crew, it's not that accurate. I'd imagine the home made ones even more inaccurate. And they are portable (6omm type), easily hidden until it pops out, bloops off a couple of rounds in the GENERAL direction of the target, then gone. Unless you've got direct observation, or a radar that can backplot, difficult to find.

[QUOTE=Naughty]Some folks just don't or won't understand how volatile and dangerous this type of situation is. I've been at a street party where it changed from a friendly good time to a violent, destructive riot in a matter of seconds.

Risky behavior is exciting.

Suddenly getting caught up in out of control violence sucks.

It CAN happen to you![/QUOTE]Have seen that myself, AMAZING how things can change so quickly. Or sweep over you...

[QUOTE=Amjeck]Lots of troops and police with guns about.[/QUOTE]Some people see safety, others targets...

[QUOTE=Giotto]why am I doing all this?[/QUOTE]Appreciated, to have an experienced source reporting. Myself, if I was in Bangkok, I'd be using my mobile and the contacts I collected for "rainy" days...

I'm with Amjeck. You guys are a bunch of drama queens. I was there in the red zone at the blockade a few weeks ago the night the RPG's were fired about 100m away from me. I was going to Patpong for a BJ. I still managed to cross the road from the reds side to the yellow and back after a few beers in a gogo.

Ok I would not go down into that area now but to say to stay away from Nana or Soi Cowboy is just scare mongering.