Pete,
The short answer is no, don't do it. The long answer is it depends on an awful lot of factors. But her youth is a huge no-no IMO. I'll PM you in a day or two when I have more time. Don't rush into any decisions.
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Pete,
The short answer is no, don't do it. The long answer is it depends on an awful lot of factors. But her youth is a huge no-no IMO. I'll PM you in a day or two when I have more time. Don't rush into any decisions.
[QUOTE=Petemcc]Are all bargirls bad?Pete[/QUOTE]
"Bad" is the wrong word to use. Corrupted by circumstances is more appropriate and all Thais, no matter what the source of corruption are incredibly susceptible to it. Given that in my experience, Thais are among the laziest people in the world, they tend to always take the easy way out. P4P, with its short-term gains is certainly preferable over toiling for hours in a factory for the same amount a girl could make in a night. Of course, long term damage to one's life is never ever considered because Thais NEVER plan ahead - part of the Buddhist 'live in the moment' mindset. As to your specific question: Regardless of how unjaded she may be and how good she is, the chances are extremely slim that you can take her out of the bar to work in a "respectable" job and somehow keep her off the game. I'm sure it has happened. But, I've never heard of any successes. So, I think it's quite rare.
Thanks gentlemen
Pete
[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]"Bad" is the wrong word to use. Corrupted by circumstances is more appropriate and all Thais, no matter what the source of corruption are incredibly susceptible to it. Given that in my experience, Thais are among the laziest people in the world, they tend to always take the easy way out. P4P, with its short-term gains is certainly preferable over toiling for hours in a factory for the same amount a girl could make in a night. Of course, long term damage to one's life is never ever considered because Thais NEVER plan ahead - part of the Buddhist 'live in the moment' mindset. As to your specific question: Regardless of how unjaded she may be and how good she is, the chances are extremely slim that you can take her out of the bar to work in a "respectable" job and somehow keep her off the game. I'm sure it has happened. But, I've never heard of any successes. So, I think it's quite rare.[/QUOTE]
As a matter of fact, it happened to me. The only time I ever got really involved with someone in the business. Everything possible was positive about her and what she was trying to do (i.e. get out of the business and get a real job so her life wouldn't be ruined by fucking/sucking every guy who she had to). She got a straight job (low pay of course) and seemed to be happy out of the business and living with me. I felt great....like I saved someone. This lasted for 8 months.
Then one day, I had to leave Thailand for a few months......and return to our office in Europe so I could keep my job and the income rolling in.
After a very short period of time, she was back on the prostitute trail. A friend of mine informed me that she was back in BKK (we lived 5 hours from there) and working as a hostess at a well known high end brothel/nighclub. My daily calls were cheerfully answered by her as she exclaimed she was busy working at the office shuffling papers. (reality is she was probably with a "customer"....telling him to be quiet as her tilac was calling)
I had my friend enter the nighclub the next day.......he told her that I had been informed what was going on. She fainted (or acted fainting) in the middle of the floor. My friend left. I did call her to say goodbye. She could not talk as the face loss to me and our friends must have been huge....she only cried....I did not fall for this. I did not ask what was going on....the answer was obvious to me. MONEY #1......and never think of the future.
This all adds up gents, thanks. I have lost count of the number of times I have heard how Thais have fucked up future chances of a nice little earner by being greedy bastards in the present. Up until now I just thought it was stupidity, but from what you gents are saying, Thais really can't think about the future, which is why many of them-girls especially, seem to lose golden opportunities.
I suppose the question is are they capable of being trained to understand that there may be a future, or are they just a lost cause?
Regards
Pete
[QUOTE=Petemcc]...
Sponsorship is for idiots, but in anyone's opinion, is it possible to take a BG from the bar and get her a job and maybe supplement her income, without her whoring?
...
[/QUOTE]Petemcc,
Please read the stories:
[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?t=2554&page=1&pp=15[/URL]
Giotto
[QUOTE=Petemcc]...Sponsorship is for idiots, but in anyone's opinion, is it possible to take a BG from the bar and get her a job and maybe supplement her income, without her whoring?
I doubt it, but I don't know.
I wish I wasn't so soft.[/QUOTE]
Where I'm from the boys have a term for it - the 'KC trap'. KC being the acronym for 'kum cheng', a cantonese term that basically means 'feelings' or 'emotions'. It is precisely your 'softness' that the BG is expert at appealing to and preying on. There are far more of my fellow countrymen who have fallen in the 'KC trap' and who have lost more than they bargained for, than would admit.
What is amazing is the number of P4P TGs I've met who have admitted to having been sponsored at one point of time or another (by sponsors both in Thailand or abroad). They all shared one thing in common - the sponsorship has stopped, for whatever reason. Go figure.
More food for thought: Many of them meet their sponsors in the P4P environment, so its a neverending cycle of: working girl meets customer, customer becomes enamoured ("but she's different from the other BGs!", i.e. he falls in the 'KC trap'), customer becomes sponsor, working girl gets caught for doing this that or the other thing, sponsorship ends, girl goes back to the only game she knows how to play, and it all starts again.
What amount of sponsorship were you contemplating, or perhaps thats too personal a question? :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Petemcc]This all adds up gents, thanks. I have lost count of the number of times I have heard how Thais have fucked up future chances of a nice little earner by being greedy bastards in the present. Up until now I just thought it was stupidity, but from what you gents are saying, Thais really can't think about the future, which is why many of them-girls especially, seem to lose golden opportunities.
I suppose the question is are they capable of being trained to understand that there may be a future, or are they just a lost cause?
Regards
Pete[/QUOTE]
It's not just "the girls". In business Thai men usually act the same. They show themselves up to be "greedy bastards" during negotiations and rarely ever think of future business, even on deals in the 500,000 Euro region. It is amazing to me. The funny part is that when a new vendor is picked and the current is told what happened they are usually very surprised and try juvenile moves (like the P4P girls) to re-gain the business. Sometimes they are so pathetic it is almost sad. In Thailand, when business is bad.....the Thais raise prices on material, even when the distributor has not raised the price. When you ask wtf is going on, they respond that business is not good...so they have to charge a little more.....then look at you with a silly grin on their faces. This usually pisses westerners off to the max. I guess when business is bad in the bars...they raise the bf and raise the st price too. It is universal in this society.
[QUOTE=Raverboy]Where I'm from the boys have a term for it - the 'KC trap'. KC being the acronym for 'kum cheng', a cantonese term that basically means 'feelings' or 'emotions'. It is precisely your 'softness' that the BG is expert at appealing to and preying on. There are far more of my fellow countrymen who have fallen in the 'KC trap' and who have lost more than they bargained for, than would admit.
What is amazing is the number of P4P TGs I've met who have admitted to having been sponsored at one point of time or another (by sponsors both in Thailand or abroad). They all shared one thing in common - the sponsorship has stopped, for whatever reason. Go figure.
More food for thought: Many of them meet their sponsors in the P4P environment, so its a neverending cycle of: working girl meets customer, customer becomes enamoured ("but she's different from the other BGs!", i.e. he falls in the 'KC trap'), customer becomes sponsor, working girl gets caught for doing this that or the other thing, sponsorship ends, girl goes back to the only game she knows how to play, and it all starts again.
What amount of sponsorship were you contemplating, or perhaps thats too personal a question? :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
This post says it all.....but I wonder why they never seem to realize that their actions is what ends the cycle and then starts the cycle again. I asked the girl I discussed below about this, as she readily admitted to three earlier boyfriends...all Asian. She said she thought it was her bad luck. I asked her if it was bad luck what she thought she could do to change her luck. She said it was all up to Buddha and she didn't have anything to do with it...other then going to the Wat and praying. I tried to explain the things she could do to change her luck....but she didn't understand....I banged my head on the wall.
[QUOTE=Petemcc]She has recently emailed me, and... I am funny, I understand her, and treat her good. Typical, but I think she may be different.
Sponsorship is for idiots, but in anyone's opinion, is it possible to take a BG from the bar and get her a job and maybe supplement her income, without her whoring?
I wish I wasn't so soft.[/QUOTE]
Pete, no one here can tell you if your lady is different. We can only tell you our experience and prejudices. The age difference is truly not important to the poorer girls. It's your ability to support them they care about.
But those lines: you're funny, you're nice to her, you really care, you understand her... sorry, those are lines we've all heard too often. The girls will introduce them at various times in the relationship from moments after you've met until anytime later. But, it's always geared to do exactly what seems to be happening to you here: to think this one is different.
Is it possible to take a BG out of the bar? I'm sure it is. In my experience, I've never seen it. I've seen girls who took themselves out of the BG scene and, at least two of them, are now quite successful entrepreneurs. The key is they did it for themselves not because some nice farang who understands them sent them money every month.
I promise you, your check each month will be added to the others she receives and she will individualize the emailed note of thank you before she goes to work that night.
The most unlikely thing is that she will be your Julia Roberts or that you will be her Richard Gere. We all know men who have married ex-BGs with varied amounts of success.
Is it possible? Yes. Remotely.
Is it likely? No.
You said two important things: "Sponsorship is for idiots" and "I wish I wasn't so soft." Everytime you think about giving her money, I urge you to think about what will happen if your wife finds out and then repeat "Sponsorship is for IDIOTS ... I wish I weren't so soft."
Thanks again everyone for your responses and words of wisdom. As I said in my original post, sponsorship is for idiots, and I wouldn't do it, even if everyone here had said it was a good idea. I was merely exploring the possibilities that she could work somewhere else, other than a bar, if someone were to supplement her income-which I know implies that it would be me, which it wouldn't be.
If it is the case that all Thai BGs are such canaving bitches, then the world is more of a fucked-up place than I could have imagined, but I have no doubt that you gents know from experience that they are just that, and that saddens me.
How someone on the game for now only 6 months, and who seemed so sweet, could be involved in such a cynical deception, is frankly sickening, and very, vert saddening.
As well as being soft, I'm also a pragmatist and a realist and when confronted with commonsense and expert opinion, I tend to wise-up, wake up, and smell the proverbial coffee.
I have absolutely no plans of leaving my wife for anyone (at the moment!) and I know from others' inputs that taking a TG out of Thailand is like taking a fish out of water, and i'm fucked if I'm living in a third world country that treats falang like scum, when I live in a first world tropical paradise.
To be honest, my concerns were more for the girl than me, but that was probably just a moment of egotistical madness, thinking that a 20 years old beauty would want me for anything other than my baht.
When I return in June, it will be my last trip for a long time, bit if I'm still speaking with the girl, I'll treat her well for a few days, go away with her, and use her as a companion. Who knows, the sky may open and a revelation will appear, but I doubt it from what you guys say, so I'll remember that Thai BGS are for fun only.
Regards
Pete
[QUOTE=Petemcc]Are all bargirls bad?
There's more to the story than can be told. I am a good judge of people and this girl is a keeper, but I am 44, she is 20, and I am married, so wrong equation.
[/QUOTE]
I can only chime in with the other guys, but I will add another angle to the debate.
I think one can indeed get a future with a TG met in a bar. This is not the most romantic way to meet one’s significant other and ladies of the night are not typically seen as the ideal wife material, but TGs are human too. They have a hart and they have a brain. In a way, they are somewhat less difficult to read than I imagine a Thai HiSo girl would be because the money the Farang brings to the party is such a big and obvious equalizer.
So yes, you can connect with your chosen one, and there is a chance of success. How big a chance? Impossible to say, but it would also depend a lot on you, mostly on you I’d say. Actually, she is just like many others, and she is only special to you. She is identical to very many of her sisters who venture into the p4p scene to make a living and send money home. Hopefully she is not too mentally and emotionally scarred by it yet. So how can you make a difference? You cannot hope to take her out of the game by sending her money every month. This hardly ever works. Like other shave said, she will keep working and your money will be a complement of income to her. The only way to get her out would be to live with her either in Thailand (preferably) or in your country, which in your situation would imply getting a divorce first, quite a drastic lifestyle change. If you did that, then you might improve the odds of your finding blissful happiness for life in the arms of a world class companion. Anything short of that will likely fail.
The other alternative is to consider her like an occasional girlfriend. Let her continue to work the barlife, spend the time you can with her when you are in LOS, travel with her, be generous but don’t be a sucker. Do not send her money, or at least not regularly. In a few years, you might see her in a different light; your marriage might have ended anyway etc. Give time to time.
[QUOTE=Lover Boy #2]
I had my friend enter the nighclub the next day.......he told her that I had been informed what was going on. She fainted (or acted fainting) in the middle of the floor. My friend left. I did call her to say goodbye. She could not talk as the face loss to me and our friends must have been huge....she only cried....I did not fall for this. I did not ask what was going on....the answer was obvious to me. MONEY #1......and never think of the future.[/QUOTE]
Do you really think she went back to the bar life for the money? Odds are that she was missing the fun and excitement of that life, the daily contact with many other people, .. If money played a part, it might just have been for the gratifying fact of making one’s own money, not depending on a boyfriend to dole out some cash for everything.
The other thing is that Thais genuinely believe that they can act any way they like and that nobody will ever find out, which is odd since in that society gossip is an art and the chance of somebody ratting you out is so overwhelming that cheating on one’s spouse is a dangerous sport indeed.
[QUOTE=Seydlitz]I can only chime in with the other guys, but I will add another angle to the debate.
I think one can indeed get a future with a TG met in a bar. This is not the most romantic way to meet one’s significant other and ladies of the night are not typically seen as the ideal wife material, but TGs are human too. They have a hart and they have a brain. In a way, they are somewhat less difficult to read than I imagine a Thai HiSo girl would be because the money the Farang brings to the party is such a big and obvious equalizer.
So yes, you can connect with your chosen one, and there is a chance of success. How big a chance? Impossible to say, but it would also depend a lot on you, mostly on you I’d say. Actually, she is just like many others, and she is only special to you. She is identical to very many of her sisters who venture into the p4p scene to make a living and send money home. Hopefully she is not too mentally and emotionally scarred by it yet. So how can you make a difference? You cannot hope to take her out of the game by sending her money every month. This hardly ever works. Like other shave said, she will keep working and your money will be a complement of income to her. The only way to get her out would be to live with her either in Thailand (preferably) or in your country, which in your situation would imply getting a divorce first, quite a drastic lifestyle change. If you did that, then you might improve the odds of your finding blissful happiness for life in the arms of a world class companion. Anything short of that will likely fail.
The other alternative is to consider her like an occasional girlfriend. Let her continue to work the barlife, spend the time you can with her when you are in LOS, travel with her, be generous but don’t be a sucker. Do not send her money, or at least not regularly. In a few years, you might see her in a different light; your marriage might have ended anyway etc. Give time to time.[/QUOTE]
Good post mate, cheers.
Petemccc
[QUOTE=Seydlitz]Do you really think she went back to the bar life for the money? Odds are that she was missing the fun and excitement of that life, the daily contact with many other people, .. If money played a part, it might just have been for the gratifying fact of making one’s own money, not depending on a boyfriend to dole out some cash for everything.
The other thing is that Thais genuinely believe that they can act any way they like and that nobody will ever find out, which is odd since in that society gossip is an art and the chance of somebody ratting you out is so overwhelming that cheating on one’s spouse is a dangerous sport indeed.[/QUOTE]
There is a girl who used to work in Long Gun. Got a boyfriend and no longer dances, no longer goes with customers, doesn't seem to do any work, but still keeps turning up to the bar to be with her friends. Seems to miss it badly like you said.