What's so difficult to understand?
[quote=finrod]i concur... on my first visit to bkk, i made the mistake of taking a nice, older (in her 30's) isaan honey to the emporium. yes she was a bargirl, but not dressed like one that night. she was dressed and made up like a professional office worker, but she still got the "what are you doing here?" stares. the honey was game, we went to dinner at one of the nicer places in the food court upstairs, but the waitress could not be bothered to give us the time of day even though the place was only a third full. i had to complain to the manager to have another waiter assigned to my table.[/quote]
i bet she looked like an isaan girl, though, didn't she? dark skin? flat wide nose? listen, you could have draped her in dior and she would have been treated the same. i'm sure the waitress considered herself above your girl in status, and therefore wouldn't lower herself to wait on her.
emporium (like paragon) is a bastion of upper-class, white-skinned thais. if your date didn't look like them, she wasn't welcome, pure and simple.
one of the major topics of conversations and a great source of puzzlement with thais concerning farang seems to always focus on what they consider farang men's bad taste in women and especially a preference for dark-skinned isaan girls, which are considered ugly and at the bottom of the barrel, by thai standards. they also question why even young, good-looking farang guys here often prefer such ugly women.
a very hot, white-skinned thai student i know who's going to the states to study lamented she'd probably never get a date while there because she doesn't have dark skin and "look like an ugly isaan girl" and therefore nobody would like her. such is the perception here.
geez, haven't we had variations on this discussion a thousand times before?
why do many farang, especially visitors continue to try to fly in the face of thai social convention, as revolting as it may be to us, by traipsing their dates around in-appropriate venues where they are not welcome?
some on here in the past have expressed a perverse desire to stick it to snooty thai shop keepers and wait staff at places like emporium by forcing them to wait on their rent-a-hos. all one ends up doing in such a situation is making everyone feel uncomfortable. while farang may not agree with the many unsaviory aspects of thai culture, such as classism and racism, it is their culture, for better or worse. the farang, especially those who get so bent out of shape over this type of thing are largely visitors who don't really understand how to deal with the culture.
Who cares what the stuck up Bangkok folks think, anyway?
[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]While Farang may not agree with the many unsaviory aspects of Thai culture, such as classism and racism, it is their culture, for better or worse. The Farang, especially those who get so bent out of shape over this type of thing are largely visitors who don't really understand how to deal with the culture.[/QUOTE]I'm a well-educated, 50ish, bald, fat white guy from North America (sound familiar?) I've traveled extensively in SE Asia with my Thai girlfriend from Kabinburi (which is in a province south of Isaan). With her generic pretty Asian country girl looks (darkish skin color, nose, smile), she easily passes for Vietnamese, Malay, Khmer, Indonesian, Lao, etc. Often times people will speak to her in their local language thinking she is one of their own. In Laos, it was great because she does speak Isaan, which is very close to Laotian, and we traveled [i]like locals[/i]. Everywhere we've gone she makes friends and people genuinely like her.
The only place where I felt a little uncomfortable was in Hanoi. I noticed lots of looks and sideways glances our way while strolling around. Hanoi is close to China, isn't it? Funny thing, in Macau I didn't notice a thing.
Recently, we saw a movie at Siam Paragon and stopped for dinner at the very busy ground level food court. I did not sense any animosity from anyone toward my girl. Granted, I was not paying that much attention to other folks in the shopping center. Why would I? And, go figure(?), the Yakisoba noodles were not all that bad for 65 baht.
So what I am thinking, (in the Rocky Mtn. redneck side of my brain), as I write this is: [i]Who gives a street rat's arse about what stuck-up, white skinned, Mercedes driving, Bangkok Thai-Chinese think anyway?[/i] They are only one sub-group in a very diverse country of many cultural origins.
I sure as hell don't, and I go everywhere in Bangkok and enjoy myself with my girl (if she wants to come along). Mainly, I don't get bent out of shape when I come into contact with ethnic-social ignorance, and that is how I deal with different cultures just fine. ;)
I may not be a Bigot but I play one on ISG
[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]I bet she looked like an Isaan girl, though, didn't she? Dark skin? flat wide nose? [/QUOTE]
All bigots and antagonists, take note, this is an example of how to promote your own clandestine ajenda under the guise of explainining Thai bigotry. Would it have made a difference if the Falang had a Thai tan/light/white skin girl on his arm? They would all get the same treatment so what’s with the emphasis on such bigoted descriptive? It may or may not be true but Thai women seen with falangs are generally thought to be from the P4P industry.
[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]
Geez, haven't we had variations on this discussion a thousand times before?[/QUOTE]
Yes but this gets you excited no, the thought of having to explain it again? I mean you get in your cheap shots more subtly this way.
[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]
Why do many Farang, especially visitors continue to try to fly in the face of Thai social convention, as revolting as it may be to us, by traipsing their dates around in-appropriate venues where they are not welcome?.[/QUOTE]
Do you adhere to all Thai Societal norms, if no why not? If we all only went to places we were welcome to many of would not even be in Thailand
[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]
Some on here in the past have expressed a perverse desire to stick it to snooty Thai shop keepers and wait staff at places like Emporium by forcing them to wait on their rent-a-hos. All one ends up doing in such a situation is making everyone feel uncomfortable..[/QUOTE]
You got this? A group of people have decided that they will make you feel uncomfortable, not because you broke the law but because of your skin color, you facial features, your national origin and the fact that you are with a Falang and in return you must do your best to not make them feel uncomfortable. Yeah Right!:eek: :confused:
If a visitor and his companion entered a public mall, as long as they are not breaking any laws and conducting themselves in a dignified manner, they have every right to and they should. Snobs will be snobs regardless of what you do. If they think you are below them, they won't think any better of you if you stay out of what they consider to be their turf. The people who make a difference in this world are the ones who have the courage to take on the absurdity of society, not the ones who cowardly complies but then again maybe that is one of the reasons this country is where it is in terms of its world status and humanities development.
[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]
The Farang, especially those who get so bent out of shape over this type of thing are largely visitors who don't really understand how to deal with the culture. [/QUOTE]
You sure sound like you are as bend out of shape as the Thai elitist snobs by the Falang and his date who dare not to comply with their unofficial unenforceable proclamations. While I would never advocate entering relationship with P4P girls or even walk around with them, I certainly don’t have the same disdain for them you and some others do and am not offended by the presence of any visitor with his P4P date.
You have to be careful with Karma though, there may come a time when the same Thai elites (and maybe you) who are offended by the mere presence of the low class Thai woman may find themselves in a medical emergency (need a kidney, need blood, need mouth to mouth) and the only person readily available to render assistance is …yeah, you got it, the low class BG.
Dear Abby ... what should I have done?
When I arrived at the dental clinic today, I kidded around with the flirty laughing receptionist for a minute, then turned around to take a seat in the waiting area, and suddenly noticed I wasn't alone. Sitting there was probably one of the most beautiful girls I've seen in ages. About 25 years old, smooth caramel skin, her hair tied back with flowers in it, not too skinny, big doey eyes, and a classic roman nose. Dressed in plain shorts and t-shirt, but still elegant. I couldn't take my eyes off her for a moment as I tried to work out her nationality. I'm pretty sure she is part-Thai/part Indian. She was just an angel. As I walked past her to take a seat, she looked up at me and gave me a beaming friendly smile. 'She's just being polite in the Land of Smiles', I thought, and I politely smiled back.
I picked up a newspaper to read while waiting, but noticed from my peripheral vision that she kept looking over at me. When I looked back at her she gave me another big beaming smile, I smiled back, then she looked away shyly. This sequence happened about 7 or 8 times in 10 minutes. I thought it was a pretty strong signal, so I decided to strike up a conversation, saying "Ah, waiting waiting" with my new cheeky smile. She laughed quietly and shyly but kept eye contact with me this time, and just then she was called into the dentist's room. She got up, walked towards the room and looked back at me with her big smile before disappearing into the room.
A little later she walked out of the dentist's room, and looked over at me again with that beaming smile as she went to the reception desk and paid her bill. I was thinking I should make a move fast before she leaves (nothing to lose in trying). But I hesitated, as it would have been awkward in front of the receptionist, and I wasn't even sure if the angel could speak English. My plan was to discretely signal to her to give me her phone number, by using my phone, hand movements and a wanting smile. But at the same time, I kept hesitating, thinking I must be having a middle-aged man's fantasy, as there's no way a young stunning woman like her would be interested in an average-looking middle-aged guy who looks sleep-deprived and a bit hung-over from too many late nights recently.
My hesitation won over so I didn't make a move. She turned to leave the clinic, looking back at me with her big smile as she opened the door and walked out. I watched her through the shop-front glass as she walked away. Yes, she looked back and smiled shyly at me again, before turning and walking into the crowds. I was sitting there kicking myself that I didn't at least try something
So, Dear Abby, what was that all about? Was I just having a middle-aged crisis, fantasizing that the young sweetheart was interested in me?
'Yes' I hear you saying.
But then why did she continually keep looking over and smiling sweetly and shyly then looking away? What should I have done?
